Checking Up
We're now three-quarters of the way through the season and it's time to re-visit one of the key questions hanging over our heads since last summer: how are the young, "bubble" players going to fare this season?
By "young" I mean not Steve Blake and Joel Przybilla. By "bubble" I mean not Brandon Roy and Lamarcus Aldridge. In fact to keep it simple, we'll narrow it down to four: Travis Outlaw, Martell Webster, Jarrett Jack, and Sergio Rodriguez.
Travis Outlaw
We said at the beginning of the season that this was the make-or-break year for Travis which would likely determine whether he was a Blazer for the next few years or on the trading block. More than any of these for, Travis seems to have made it.
You have to judge a young player first on his strengths and Travis' is offense, particularly the ability to score. His points per game average is 4 points higher than last season, representing a 43% increase. His minutes per game are also up 4, only an 18% increase. His points-per-minute production is right around .5, which is by far the highest of his career (and it's not even close). His overall shooting percentage is up from last season. His three-point percentage has skyrocketed, though he still only takes a little over 1 per game. His free throw attempts are up but his percentage is down--the only blot on his record. Across the board he is doing an amazing (for Travis) job of shooting and scoring.
Travis' rebounding has not ballooned in the same fashion as his offense. He's slightly up in rebounds per game and if you project his minutes to around 35 he would ends up somewhere between 6-7 per game. That's not shabby for a small forward. It's not good for a major-minute power forward, at least the way this team needs boards.
Travis doesn't turn the ball over enough to worry about nor does he block shots with regularity or pass the ball much. Considering how slowly the various facets of his game have progressed the relatively low turnover number is a surprise but it's never been a real issue for him.
Travis' defensive progress has been middling. He doesn't get burned on a regular basis anymore, which is a huge step up. He is prone to defensive mistakes when put under pressure. He is far, far better when he uses his athleticism to come across the lane and help out than when he's stuck on a defender alone.
As far as intangibles, Travis brings is surest isolation-scoring hand the team has. His clutch play has also been well-chronicled. These compensate for the occasional head-slapping gaffe.
Overall the Blazers score slightly better, shoot slightly better, defend slightly worse, and rebound worse when Travis is on the floor. They also draw more foul attempts when he is playing.
Verdict: Travis has made remarkable strides in the areas that matter most. He doesn't quite have a guaranteed career path ahead of him yet but he's bought at least another season or two of time.
Martell Webster
This was not Martell Webster's make-or-break season but this was going to be his first year being given important minutes in a key role for this team.
Martell is even more of an offensive player than Travis. Like Travis his points, shooting percentage, and three-point percentage have increased with more playing time...all good signs. His gains have not been as dramatic, but they are measurable. He's getting right around 33% more minutes this season and has registered a 44% increase in scoring. His point-per-minute rate is .36, which is higher than the .32 he registered last year but lower than the .38 from his rookie season. (By comparison Brandon Roy is around a .52.) While still not shooting a high enough percentage (41%) or scoring enough points (overall or per-minute) to make a mark as an NBA-level offensive player progress is progress.
Martell's rebounding has increased proportionally with his minutes, which leaves him at a barely-adequate level for a forward, decent for an off-guard. Like Travis, Martell's assists and turnovers are negligible, though obviously his shot-blocking is not as strong.
Martell's defense has improved since he entered the league. He's not getting destroyed on a regular basis anymore. You don't see as many comments about his incredible lack of lateral movement. However he's nobody's idea of the next Bruce Bowen. At best he's a non-factor. At times he can still be a liability.
Martell's most significant intangible has been his inconsistency. He set the joint on fire his first month and has been random ever since. In February he played between 21-39 minutes every game. His point totals progressed like this:
9, 17, 8, 7, 18, 11, 3, 18, 7, 3, 12, 12, 15, 9
And before you ask, no...the big-minute games did not always correlate to the big-point games. This might explain why Martell's minutes have started to diminish as we begin our stretch run. At this point it's hard to count on him. You might get a torrential flood of points or he might run as dry as the desert.
The team's offensive production and field-goal percentage are both lower when Martell is on the floor. In fact the team has score a net 189 points fewer when Webster is on the floor than when he's off it. They average 8.3 points fewer per hundred possessions when Martell plays. That's disastrous news for a player with his job description. Fouls drawn are also down. Rebounding and defense are slightly up.
Verdict: This wasn't as much as we wanted to see out of Martell. At this point the team's progress has far outstripped his individual growth, which means the team will need more in the future than he's giving. This will probably be a summer of soul-searching for both Martell and the Blazers. Next year he needs to come with a ready-made game that helps the team or they may have to curtail his minutes sharply or jettison him altogether.
Jarrett Jack
The job description for Jarrett Jack has been slightly more complex than those of Martell Webster and Travis Outlaw. Even when people thought him a point guard his main asset was still scoring. That is probably his greatest strength. At his size he must be able to pass, handle, defend, and play smart as well.
Unlike the two previous players Jarrett has actually seen his overall minutes reduced this season. His scoring has declined in almost exact proportion to his minutes. He averages about .36 points per minute...not a horrible number as long as he holds up the other parts of his game. His overall percentage, three-point percentage, and free throw percentage have all declined, though his field goal percentage remains fairly good (43%) and his free-throw percentage excellent (86%).
Jarrett's overall rebounds, and thus rebounds per minute, have risen.
The key factors if Jarrett has point guard aspirations are assists and turnovers. Jarrett's assists per game have declined by 1.3, accompanied by a modest decrease in assists per minute. This is not wholly unexpected as he is no longer the starting point guard and half the time doesn't play the point. Jarrett's turnovers per minute have increased. He turns the ball over at the same rate he did last season though he plays around 17% fewer minutes. His assist/turnover ratio, slightly above 2.2 last season, is down to 1.7 this year. That's obviously the wrong direction to be heading.
Jarrett's defense is nothing to write home about most nights. He's got a solid body but is matched up against quick point guards or athletic shooting guards, both of whom make life difficult for him. He is marginally better at playing the pick and roll than he was earlier in his career. He's still in trouble matched up one-on-one.
The team scores somewhat worse, rebounds somewhat worse, and defends slightly worse when Jarrett is on the floor. Fouls drawn, free throws attempted, and free throws made are up. Turnovers committed go against the Blazers when Jarrett plays.
Verdict: Jarrett is from the same draft class as Martell Webster and is having similar problems defining himself. Some of this can be attributed to continually shifting roles...a difficulty which Martell cannot claim. Jarrett has been given more responsibility in the last couple of games and appears to be handling it well. These last 21 games could be crucial for him. Martell at least has an extremely rare combination of gifts--reasonable athleticism with fantastic shooting form. Jarrett has a lot of potential gifts but many could be duplicated, perhaps by people already on the team. If Jarrett does remain with us through the summer he will have to come out strong and prepared next year, reversing the downward trend in his production. He's unlikely to get much more major-minute time to prove himself.
Sergio Rodriguez
Like Jarrett Jack, Sergio has a multi-pronged responsibility list. He's not a combo guard, however. His mission starts and ends with the point guard position. His defense is obviously not his strong point so offense will be the main criterion on which he is judged.
Any way you slice it this has not been a good year for Sergio. He's seen a 28% reduction in his playing time. His overall field goal percentage has plummeted by 69 points (.423 to .354). His three-point percentage is down and his free throw percentage is in the toilet. His scoring has decreased proportionally with his playing time as have his turnovers...no harm there. His assists, however, are nearly halved. Part of it is that we're getting none of the running opportunities which boosted Sergio's stats last year. Another part is that Sergio is not consistently good at setting up the halfcourt offense. Sergio's assist-to-turnover ratio has decreased from 2.8 to 2.0 this season, a greater proportional decrease than even Jarrett's.
Sergio is not a good defender away from the ball. He still doesn't recognize offenses or his place in the defensive scheme. His on-ball defensive performances range from adequate to bad, depending on who he is facing.
Sergio's intangibles are hard to measure for the same reason Martell's are: he's inconsistent. He'll shoot 50-60% some nights and then shoot 0-14% with the same number of minutes a week later. He's had a couple fantastic outings on nights when he's gotten double-digit minutes and then a lot of outings where he has frittered those minutes away. He doesn't seem to be inspiring the team in the same way this year as he did last. He brings some good stuff mixed with a fair amount of confusion.
The Blazers score 7 fewer points per 100 possessions with Sergio on the floor. Assisted field goals are up but field goal percentage, defense, rebounding, and free throws given up are all down. We commit more turnovers when he is on the floor as well.
Verdict: We may not have a great chance to make the playoffs but Nate is coaching like we are driving towards it, which means tightening the rotation and playing the guys you trust most to produce. On that basis it's pretty easy to see where Sergio is the odd man out. I suspect if and when we get mathematically eliminated from the post-season you'll see Sergio's minutes come back, perhaps with a few added on. Sergio really needs to work hard this summer on rounding out the other parts of his game besides passing and dribbling. He's only in his second year, however. He has time.
You can peruse all kind of arcane stats yourself at 82Games.com
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
0 recs |
68 comments
Comments
Travis
by jamon51 on Mar 6, 2008 2:48 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Nice analysis - but as you allude, we have no
When will the Blazers start drawing conclusions on these players, or is the timescale infinite?
What do you think of the Blazers giving these young guys all this experience, only for some of them likely to be traded, and of those traded, a probability to shine in the future?
Do you think this is a strategic approach or could it be better balanced by something else?
by hotstuffdb22 on Mar 6, 2008 5:01 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Dave stole my diary!
I call Playgorism!
Since you didn't note your source, I can only assume it was the diary I posted last week...
http://www.blazersedge.com/story/2008/2/29/17313/2266
In all seriousness, I am only linking it here, because I took the time to look up alot of the numbers for each player, and listed them for all major rotation players, not just the 4 dave listed here. The more info the better I always say.
Great insights Dave, keep up the good work.
by usmcr3049 on Mar 6, 2008 8:10 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts
Martell: marginal improvement. We need to see a bigger improvement next year. Places we most need Martell to improve -- shooting percentage, spacing and movement on offense so he is always a threat (even if he isn't hitting that particular game), and defense. Improvement in things like rebounding, ball handling, and driving to the hoop would be helpful as well, but are less important than the other things.
Jarrett: I can't figure him out. In some ways, seems to have improved, in others regressed. I will say this. Last summer, a lot of people said if he didn't start he would sulk, and demand a trade. He's showed he is a lot more than that. That goes a long way with me. But I will be surprised if he isn't traded this summer. I think he has 20 games to show he can be this team's PG, because he's going to lose SG minutes to Rudy.
Sergio: This year was only going to be about learning, anyway. As long as he's working hard (and by all accounts, he is), I'm happy. Next year, he needs to produce. The likelihood of him being traded this summer has decreased with his minutes -- it decreases the likelihood that other teams will give up much for him. That's ok with me, because I don't want to see him traded. In other words, I could care less about what Sergio has done this year. It is next year when he has to begin to produce.
by jscot on Mar 6, 2008 8:12 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
What is
I know you're invested in him but this analysis seems pretty good and I'm not sure what Dave's opinion of Jack's last game has to do with his analysis of Sergio.
Sergio is obviously stagnant right now and some of it is due to not getting playing time but he has not looked good for a while.
I like his style and see potential but maybe he needs to go somewhere away from Nate if his coaching doesn't make good use of Sergio's talents.
by fatwansaboni on Mar 6, 2008 8:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I got it!
by porterfan30 on Mar 6, 2008 8:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's true!
by sergioFTW on Mar 6, 2008 8:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I ordered the caricature of Sergio for you.
I told you that you should sent your email adress to amlmart1@wanadoo.es, and I´m still waiting for it. The caricature will be sent to me next week. I hold my offer, but now -;)- you have to create a team for the Oden´s caricature contest (I have only 3 teams in competition and I want more emotion). You have only to write the name of 5 BEs, you included, for the 5 positions in a team: PG, SG, etc. And you can´t choose players of the other 3 teams.
by amlmart1 on Mar 6, 2008 9:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OK AMLMART1
PG: It obviously can't be anybody but the staunchest defender of our flashy Spanish point guard, SergioFTW!
SG: All good shooting guards shoot with impunity -- philthyanimal's traffic is almost nonpareli on BE, and as such he makes for a spectacular 2.
SF: EnglandDan's silky-smooth posts and incisive wit are exactly what Team Libertad (I feel like it fits with fresergio.com...) is looking for from its wing players.
PF: He's off-kilter, wry-humored, and one of the sharpest posters around. Put that torreador cape on, Mortimer. You're our starting PF.
C: The Jason Collins of the team, eatin' that space right up...BlazersOrBust!
OK amlmart, what now?
by BlazersOrBust on Mar 6, 2008 12:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I love typos and spelling errors
by BlazersOrBust on Mar 6, 2008 1:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Now your team is in the contest
by amlmart1 on Mar 6, 2008 1:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pick me, SergioFTW!!
by BlazersOrBust on Mar 6, 2008 10:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not only do i pick you,
by sergioFTW on Mar 6, 2008 11:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's blaming the coach
It's shades of what Hubie did to Jason Williams' game -- killed all the creativity and excitement out of his play, but made him a solid, reliable role player.
by howlingfantods on Mar 6, 2008 9:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think a fair amount of Sergio's play
When Sergio returned he had completely changed his style. His defensive numbers dramatically improved (perhaps largely because of Nate inplementing the zone) but his offensive numbers also crashed.
Sergio's best style is a pick and roll offense with the ball in his hands and surrounded by shooters. His natural style is high risk/high reward, a style with more turnovers, but also more dunks and more open shots than the offense Nate employs.
The saddest thing for me this season has been to see Sergio attempt to entirely change his style to suit Nate McMillan, even though it is not effective for Sergio, and then to receive zero reward. Basically I think Nate cannot develop point guards and if Nate is to be our coach we need to have Nate select a player in the league that he would like and then go and get him.
by EnglandDan on Mar 6, 2008 11:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you just made my day
by sergioFTW on Mar 6, 2008 11:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That sure sounds nice...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=3025
In the first 4 games Sergio had 2, 8, 0, and 0 points. In those same games he had, 0, 2, 0, and 1 assists. In those same games he played, 6, 12, 0 and 12 minutes.
In the first month of the season Sergio avg:
MIN: 10.8
PTS: 3.1
AST: 1.8
FG%: 38%
3PT% 36%
TO: 1.1
For the season he has avg:
MIN: 9.3
PTS: 2.7
AST: 1.7
FG%: 35%
3PT%:27%
TO: 0.8
Sergio's best play this year so far was in December and January where he avg:
Dec:
MIN: 8.6
PTS: 2.5
AST: 1.9
FG%: 44%
3PT%:22%
TO: .7
Jan
MIN: 10.4
PTS: 3.1
AST: 2.1
FG%: 31%
3pt%:29%
TO: .9
Which suprisingly is when the Blazers played their best basketball of the season, (it is also when James Jones was in the second unit).
by usmcr3049 on Mar 6, 2008 1:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You attempted to disprove my assertion
For the other two thirds of the season Jarrett Jack has been somewhat better at these stats than Sergio (although worse than Blake). Jack is at present a better player than Sergio, but he's not improving and Sergio is not being given an opportunity to improve, even when he does better than Jack.
by EnglandDan on Mar 6, 2008 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I see where you coming from then..
December is where Jack didn't play well for most of the month, and like I said before, is where I remember Sergio playing his best basketball of this season. Could this be where you remember that sequence of games? Because I would agree with you if you said that in December Sergio played better in the minutes he played, than Jack did in the minutes he played.
by usmcr3049 on Mar 6, 2008 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I mentioned this several times back then
for an entire month, when our team was playing it's best basketball and winning games (which is very important), Sergio demonstrably outperformed jack, but received no more minutes and jack no less.
by sergioFTW on Mar 6, 2008 2:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I see...
However Sergio had his minutes reduced as well from around 10, to around 8. So I decided to look at each players minutes played that month. Martell had the biggest drop of over 10 minutes per game. Only Joel, jones, and Travis had their minutes increased. Jones is the biggest, but that was because of his injury, the suprise to me was that Joel's minutes went way up in that winning month, from 18.6 to 23.3. So combine that with Jones not playing, to playing an avg of 25.8 mins per night, the minutes had to come from somewhere, and it looks like Nate just took a litte from each player, and alot from Martell.
by usmcr3049 on Mar 6, 2008 2:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, also during that time Sergio played the point
by EnglandDan on Mar 6, 2008 2:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
During that very small time period
It might have simply been the speed with which Sergio played that did it rather than any particular competence, but Nate hated it despite its seeming effectiveness. Since then Sergio has played a very different style with varying amounts of success. I think my point is that when he had success he still wasn't getting much time under Nate.
by EnglandDan on Mar 6, 2008 2:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If that is your point
by usmcr3049 on Mar 6, 2008 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can think of many legitimate reasons for it.
by EnglandDan on Mar 6, 2008 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Came late to the party today
by drawingjeremy on Mar 6, 2008 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just glad
by JPop on Mar 6, 2008 8:29 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Sergios HC offence
What bothers me the most about some peoples assessment of Sergio and Jack (in my personal life and sometimes on BE) is that most people don't look at the present when evaluating them. I remember complaining that Sergio wasn't getting as many minutes as Jack when he outperformed him only to have TOs (which were pretty low at that point) and his lack of defense as excuses as to why he wasn't playing.

by Philthyanimal on Mar 6, 2008 8:43 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think
Because of this, his assist numbers are way down, he has only topped 6 assists, 2 times this year. Last year he topped 6 assists 15 times, in limited minutes.
Hopefully Sergio is able to hit the gym this summer, and really work on both his 3pt shot, and Free throw shot, as well as hitting the weight room so he can finish around the hoop more. I think he will come back strong if he can do those things.
by usmcr3049 on Mar 6, 2008 8:46 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I Tend to Reach a Different...
When you compare this season to his rookie season, overall, he has improved little.
As a matter of fact, as you mentioned, he's scoring less on a per40 basis. His rebounding has only improved marginally, around 1/2 rebound per40.
And frankly, Martell's shooting ability is significantly overrated. A 40% career mark after nearly 3 seasons is a fairly solid indicator of his actual shooting ability. Good shooters rarely make big improvements in their shooting percentages in their fourth or fifth seasons. Marttell's TS% is actually worse this season then it was as a rookie.
With Oden and Aldridge scheduled to operate in a double post scheme, with Roy's ability to drive the lane, Portland will need a SF that can spread the defense. Martell can't do it. Defenses don't respect his shot, and frankly they shouldn't. It's remarkable how much more open the floor is for portland when James Jones is playing and Martell is on the bench.
Martell's man defense has improved, but I'd argue his help defense is still weak, and often martell fails to block out on the defensive glass.
And it's not like he hasn't had opportunity. In 3 seasons Martell only has about 10% less minutes then Outlaw.
And I think time is running short for him because of his contract. Unless his contract is extended this summer, his cap-hold entering the 2009 off-season will be 11.3 million. There goes the cap-space plan.
Considering that the reports were KP was willing to include martell in the NY trade, I think the chances are pretty good Martell will be part of a trade package this summer, likely on draft day.
by moldorf on Mar 6, 2008 8:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Very upbeat...
Travis: a player. A-. Keep.
Martell: disappointing but young. C. Keep.
Jack: a player. B. Keep.
Sergio: disaster. F. Trade.
t
by timbo on Mar 6, 2008 9:18 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Trade Sergio?
If for no other reason, keep him one more year to help ease Rudy's adjustment. If he earns time, great. If not, cut him (you won't be able to trade him if he can't earn PT next year, either).
I personally think he could shine in a fast-breaking second unit, with Joel at center and a rebounding PF, so that Travis, Rudy, and Sergio could get out and run. That could be a lot of fun.
The other players are keepers, but tradeable as well, assuming the right deal comes along.
by jscot on Mar 6, 2008 9:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not that far off from your grading
Martell: disappointing but young. C. Keep.
Jack: a player. B -. Keep.
Sergio: disaster. I . Keep
I think Rodriguez gets an incomplete. Because of that I don't think it fair to designate him as trade goods.
by timg56 on Mar 6, 2008 12:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
At least our borderline players have good value
by leeroyjenkins on Mar 6, 2008 9:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
A different take
I think a better question is who would other teams want? We desperately need to pull off a 3 for 1 trade this summer for a solid veteran PG or SF who is capable of creating his own shot and would be a good locker room presence. For that, I would give up a combination involving anyone but Roy, Aldridge, or Oden.
That doesn't mean that I don't like all of these guys, but there is no sense in piling up all these mid-level assets when there are only a finite amount of minutes to be played. I prefer Outlaw to Webster, but if his inclusion is necessary to swing a great deal, so be it.
by daverich on Mar 6, 2008 10:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Trade 'em all
We're all hoping they'll have an epiphany and suddenly blossom into all-stars, but the odds of that happening are remote. I would guess that when McMillan and Pritchard project who they'll be in five years, they see reliable role and bench players at best. That's not a high ceiling and probably not good enough for a team with championship aspirations.
Michael Jordan didn't become MJ overnight. Even so, he was a better player as a rookie than any of the guys we're talking about, none of whom are rookies. Like Brandon Roy, he understood how to play the game and knew the importance of becoming a multi-skilled, well-rounded player.
Our young guys repeatedly make the same mistakes, have few skills and many weaknesses, and lack confidence and consistency. They are only effective when they are in their comfort zone, but they don't know how to adapt their game or mental approach to get there. They are what they are, and it isn't likely they will ever be much more than that.
I'm looking forward to seeing what KP can get for them this summer. We have a surfeit of young players that other teams want. I'm hoping KP can make a couple of two-for-one trades, in which he trades two young players for someone who will be able to contribute more to our championship run.
It's a risk, sure, but I'm willing to live with the possibility that Jarrett turns into the next Chauncey Billups in five years if the guy who replaces him brings more to the table between now and then.
by MiledAnimal on Mar 6, 2008 10:30 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
look at the league
by sergioFTW on Mar 6, 2008 11:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's my question
What kind of timeline are you envisioning, exactly?
Your point would make sense if the Blazers were a year or two away from making a serious playoff run. If that were the case, then dealing some of the young talent for more experienced players would be a viable gameplan.
But are the Blazers really that close? Other than Roy, whom among the Blazers is "playoff-ready?" Aldridge may be with another year of seasoning but realistically, that's it.
As this year has progressed - and as the shortcomnings of the Blazer roster have been made apparent - one of the mantras I keep reading here is: "Wait 'til next year when Oden comes back." Whenever I see that, I cast my mind back to the summer league games in which Oden racked up 19 fouls in two games. At that point, the mantra around here was to expect Oden to have a steep, one to two year learning curve. And that was before his microfracture surgery.
Assuming the team adapts a tendency towards caution post-surgery, the Blazers will probably not ask much of Oden for at least the early part of next year. Which means that he probably won't really hit his stride as a player until sometime around the middle of 2009-2010 at the earliest. If that turns out to be the case, what does the team's timeline look like then? Do they really need to trade youth for experience as soon as this summer? Or should they remain patient and give players like Travis, Martell, Jack and Sergio a little extra time to find themselves?
I think it's likely that one or two of those players will get moved this summer. But not all of them. If the rumors are true, it sounds like Pritchard could have already gotten someone on tbe level of a Devin Harris if he were willing to part with Outlaw. That he did not pull the trigger may well indicate that "when McMillan and Pritchard project who they'll be in five years, they see" something more than "reliable role and bench players at best."
by knickfan on Mar 6, 2008 11:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I heart U
After next year, I would love for them to be in the NBA Finals, and I would be fine with the Blazers getting bounced in the Western Conference Finals. The Blazers are at least two years away from being a legitimate long term threat. They just need to mature together and add a couple veterans like the ones sitting on the Spurs bench.
Everyone should just sit back, relax and enjoy the ride. That is not the nature of sports blogs, but I thought it was worth a try.
by tominhawaii on Mar 6, 2008 12:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Too many assets
The other issue is experience vs. inexperience. We could use another seasoned veteran who knows how to score, assuming they are a good locker room presence.
by daverich on Mar 6, 2008 12:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You continue to be
by timg56 on Mar 6, 2008 12:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Proper perspective and it's from a Knicks Fan!
And really how do we know how our young players will react to playing with a healthy and hopefully a great contributor in Oden?
Does it make Martell a better player as he should get more open looks with double teams on Oden. Does Travis become less important unless he works on his spot up game? Does Sergio become much more important due to his ability on the pick and roll?
Who knows? Next year is the year where we will answer these questions. Let's let nature run it's course.
by blazermaniac32 on Mar 6, 2008 1:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oden had severe tonsillitis in summer league
I never did buy that he was going to have such a tough learning curve. He'll contribute early and often, get schooled occasionally, but by the end of next season, every team is going to want a playoff seeding that misses Portland. We'll be inconsistent, but oh so very dangerous.
By the 2010 playoffs, we'll be good enough to contend, and if you are good enough to contend, you can win it all if you get the breaks.
But I do agree that our main domination comes after that, and there is time for young players to develop. There is even time for a PG drafted this year to develop, if he's really good enough....
I do strongly agree with the poster who suggested that we have too many medium-quality assets. We can't play them all, so they will lose value if we don't trade them. If possible, trading two medium-quality assets for a higher quality one would be a good move. I'll take a 3 for 1 or a couple of 2 for 1 trades, for sure, even if we're giving up really good value.
by jscot on Mar 6, 2008 1:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Microfracture surgery
Sure, it's a possibility that next season we'll frequently see the Oden that dazzled the world in the NCAA finals against Florida. I just don't think it's a particularly realistic one.
Hope for your sake that I'm wrong. Because if I'm not, you'll be seeing the first wave of "Trade Oden" diaries here sometime around January '09.
by knickfan on Mar 6, 2008 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That irks me
People on here have no patience sometimes. Luckily KP will ignore all of them.
Oden WILL be a project, but body wise will be more than ready to compete, which i think will help with the nightly competition. He'll be winded at the end of the year but decent in midland or early land.
by ratbastird on Mar 6, 2008 3:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He'll Be Fine
by tominhawaii on Mar 6, 2008 3:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, tom
That kind of flair for the conspiratorial is just wasted in a sleepy little burg like Portland.
by knickfan on Mar 6, 2008 3:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's true
by tominhawaii on Mar 6, 2008 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh!
by TwoDeep on Mar 7, 2008 9:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
by tominhawaii on Mar 7, 2008 11:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They wouldnt keep him out all year...
by myemic23 on Mar 7, 2008 11:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, But
They are going to keep Darius until the last year of his contract. Then, LeBron is going to tell Cleavland that he's going to leave so they'll have to trade him. KP will sent the expiring contract of Darius, Outlaw, Webster, and Sergio for LeBron and filler. Then he will sign LeBron to a long term deal.
by tominhawaii on Mar 7, 2008 11:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This year GO will have had the opportunity to
by annthefan on Mar 6, 2008 4:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My summary,
Martell has dramatically improved defensively, shows bursts of what he could become offensively and is so young that anyone making final pronouncements about where he will end up is talking through their backside. He's noticeably improving, which is great.
Jarrett Jack seems to be mostly the same player as last year. This player is at the level of a starter on a bad team or a decent back-up on a decent team (which is what we are). He's still young for the NBA and seems to be coming on again recently. The least improvement of any of the players but he was at by far the highest level to start with.
Sergio Rodriguez has dramatically improved his defense this year. I would say the level of improvement in this area matches any improvement in any area of any of the other players (but he had the furthest to go). he has completely changed his style of play to meet Nate's demands, and consequently has declined offensively quite dramatically. Either Nate's breaking him down to start again or Sergio is just not a player Nate likes. Sergio has big strides to take in his shooting and scoring and his man defense. Encouraging and depressing all at the same time.
by EnglandDan on Mar 6, 2008 11:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
right on
what's interesting is to compare this with the recent halfway point analysis-- personally, i feel slightly worse about all four players. anyone else feel the same way? its too bad because NOW is the time for young guys to make a real push and earn respect not only in the locker room but around the league. chalk that up to the beauty of the streak inflating expectations, youth, inconsistency and/or shortened minutes i guess.
PS for the amusement of sergioFTW more than anything else, there's an ongoing joke on press row that we will bring signs that say "TO" and unfurl them one at a time for each turnover jack makes, similar to how baseball fans track "K" for pitchers.
by Ben. on Mar 6, 2008 11:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
consider me amused.
by sergioFTW on Mar 6, 2008 1:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Travis' Defense
The drop in defensive rebounding is actually a lot bigger than can be explained by the difference in Outlaw's and Aldridge's rebounding abilities. If you check out the 5-man teams that Outlaw has been a part of, you can see that the most frequently used ones involve Outlaw at 4 and Aldridge at 5. So it seems that the main reason for the lack of rebounding when Outlaw plays (and therefore poor defensive rating) is actually due to not having good rebounding center playing at the same time as Travis. I think we would be better off if we were to play Outlaw together with good rebounding center (such as Przybilla or, next year, Oden) rather than continuing to pair him with Aldridge.
by trk on Mar 6, 2008 12:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Great observation
by TwoDeep on Mar 7, 2008 9:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A way to simplify Jack
However, if you look at him as a slashing 2 guard and stop asking him to defend point guards I think you get an effective role player. His shot is okay and will improve in time.
I see him as the second guard off the bench if he's still with the team this time next year.
by jon on Mar 6, 2008 12:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
if only Nate saw it this way.
by sergioFTW on Mar 6, 2008 1:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If Jack never improves a jot,
by EnglandDan on Mar 6, 2008 1:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Like Jack
I maintain the best point guard on the team right now is Roy. Blake is a backup pg that every team would love to have but as a starter? Not quite as much.
It's not necessary to have an all-star at each position but you should have one on the front court and one on the back court and it's best if the one in the back court is a point guard. I think Roy will be that point guard unless major roster changes take place or unless Rudy bombs.
Sergio is the wild card in this equation. If he can harness his tremendous raw talent then you can throw this all out the window. But a year to a year and a half from today I see the starting back court being Roy and Rudy. Blake would be first guard off the bench with Roy moving to 2 unless Sergio rises up and beats out Blake. Jack would probably be the 2nd guard off the bench in this scenario.
Regardless I think KP will make changes that will effect all of this.
by jon on Mar 6, 2008 4:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh the Sergio/Jack debate...
05-06 - 13.4 pts, 5.6 ast, 4 reb, 2.6To, 1 stl, 44%fg, 26%3pt, 80%ft
06-07 - 14.1 pts, 6.2 ast, 3.1 rb, 2.8To, 1.3 stl, 45%fg, 35%3pt, 87%ft
07-08 - 14.8 pts, 5.9 ast, 4.4reb, 3.5To, 1 stl, 43%fg, 32%3pt, 86%
All of Jack's stats are down this year except scoring and rebunding. At what point do we decide Jack might not ever make significant improvements? 7,000 minutes? 10,000 minutes?
Here are Sergio and Jack's career stats per 40 minutes:
Jack - 14.1 pts, 5.9 ast, 3.7 reb, 1.2 stl, 3 To, 44%fg, 32%3pt, 85%ft
Sergio-11.6 pts, 9.5 ast, 4.4 reb, 1.8 stl, 3.6To, 40%fg, 28%3pt, 73%ft
I am not trying to say that Sergio is better than Jack, but that he has earned a chance to show what he can do. When looking at these stats, do you really feel like one guy should be playing 25-30 minutes everynight while the other cant even get in the game? And please dont blame it on defense, even Dave himself admits that Jack's D is below par, so you dont really lose much in that sense when playing Sergio.
Looking at some of our young players career minutes and notice how they have improved with much less playing time then Jack. LMA has 3300, Outlaw has 5100, Roy has 4200, and Webster has 4500. All four of these guys have shown improvemnt this year despite much less on the floor experience than Jack.
Now look at our crafty vets. You know these guys, they have been around the league and have pretty well established what type of player they are and will be. I am talking about Steve Blake, Joel Pryzbilla, and James Jones. We got Blake because he could provide a calming veteren influence. The funny thing is that Blake came into this season with 6,000 nba minutes under his belt, that happens to be the same point Jack is at right now, yet Jack still gets the benefit of being labled as a "young guy with potential". Joel came into the season with about 6200 minutes, jones only has 5300 career minutes. How is 6,000 minutes veteren status for some of our players but not for Jack? Havent the blazers given Jack enough of a chance? 6000 minutes of burn and no real improvement, lets see what Sergio can do, for better or worse...
by myemic23 on Mar 6, 2008 3:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
minutes vs. seasons
Also, to borrow your format, here are Sergio's stats this year and last year adjusted to 40 min:
06-07 - 11.5 pts, 10.23 ast, 4.3 rb, 3.4To, 1.5 stl, 42%fg, 28%3pt, 81%ft
07-08 - 11.6 pts, 7.3 ast, 3.9 rb, 3.4To, 1.7 stl, 35%fg, 28%3pt, 68%ft
So we see that all of Sergio's stats have dropped markedly this year, with the exception of scoring (negligible increase) and steals. It's a bit disingenuous to have Jack's numbers broken down year by year, but then only compare him to Sergio's career numbers, in my opinion.
by abdelnaby on Mar 6, 2008 8:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
At this point in the thread
My point in showing Jacks 3 year trend was to point out that there has been no improvement in any category since his rookie year, yet he gets an unbelievable amount of playing time. His only stat that is significantly up this year is turnovers. Not a good thing.
Sergio has 19 games this year where he has played 6 minutes or less. That is over 1/3 of the games he has played. Go down to your local Y and sit around for a half hour and then jump into a game for 4-6 minutes. My guess is that you wont play anything close to your best basketball. If Sergio cant get into the game, he cant produce any stats.
I have partially agree with your assertion that it is more about seasons than playing time. I do think it is a combo of both, and the behind the scenes training is great, but actual playing time is the most important part. On the floor experience is infinitely valuable to a developing player. If you want to learn how to play in the nba, dont you think actually playing in a real game would be the most crucial part? I just dont see how the hell Jack warrants 27 minutes per game while Sergio registers DNP's.
by myemic23 on Mar 6, 2008 9:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Travis you are wrong
by bow4meow on Mar 6, 2008 6:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

by 





















