The Latest Buzz

by Dave on Jan 21, 2008 9:45 PM PST in News Comment 57 comments

The New Orleans Hornets are on tomorrow's docket so we sat down with Ryan of Hornets247.com for a few questions.

Blazersedge: Even in the stacked Western Conference New Orleans looks to be in strong position to make the playoffs. Is that even a question for you at this point or is it a fait accompli? If so, where in the seeding do you think you'll end up? Are there certain teams against whom you match up well?

I'd be pretty shocked if the Hornets fell out of the playoffs at this point. Teams that are prone to slide are usually those that are getting lucky in close games and aren't winning by large margins. Already this season the Hornets have 7 wins by more than 20 and 9 wins by more than 10, giving them 5 more blowout wins than losses. That's the mark of a good team. As for seeding, things are so close in the West it's hard to predict. I ran through the Hornets schedule a week ago at Hornets247 and came to the conclusion our odds of reaching 52 wins is pretty good, which last season would of given us a top 4 seed. I'm not convinced that same record will be good enough this year, but I'd estimate a 3-5 seed. For matchups against playoff contenders - we do well against Houston, Phoenix and Golden State. West and Chandler are near impossible for them to handle, Paul does well against Nash, Baron, and the rotating PGs of Houston, and their benches are as weak as ours. We don't do so well against teams with physical post defenders that can get into Chandler's body, and long, quick power-forwards that can bother West's forays into the paint.

Blazersedge: How critical is a healthy Peja Stojakovic to your eventual success?

Vital. Don't get me wrong, Peja is not the all-star he once was, and he's not going to carry our team to victory. But he is an irreplaceable threat on the perimeter. Teamed with Peterson, our team always has two threats from range at all times to open up West's post game, Paul's penetration and Tyson's lob/offensive rebounding. Doubling our team is near impossible. If Peja went down, we'd have to replace him with someone from our bench. Pick anyone from that crew, and you've got a non-shooter, and our offensive suffers.

Blazersedge: Is this team, as constituted, ever going to be a legitimate championship threat? If not then what do you need to add and how do you plan to get those additions?

Our starting five is one of the most effective in the league, and they compliment each other very well on both ends of the floor. If it was a 35 minute game, with 5 man squads, I'd say we had a chance right now. But it's not, and our bench is streaky as can be. It defends very well, but offensively it just went through a half-month-long drought where the entire bench managed to score 11 points a game. If we could add a scoring wing and a slightly more dependable backup point, we'd be contending. As for getting those additions, the Hornets will shed about 5 million in salary next year, and will also have an expiring contract with Bobby and a reasonably good trade chip in Rasual Butler and a late first-rounder for sale. Jeff Bower is careful with our cap, has been solid at picking up low cost options since he took over, and our scouting department has a pretty good record at picking up solid late-draft guys. We also have the mid-level next year. I think we're in good shape. It's easier to add solid bench guys than capable starters.

Blazersedge: People are already beginning to anticipate Chris Paul's impending contract renewal and possible free agency. There are mutterings about George Shinn's history of not wanting to give out huge contracts. How concerned are you?

Not at all. I've seen a couple of those articles in Portland talking about how Paul is the missing piece. They are patently absurd, and deserve to be tossed on the same pile of lame rumors most Sam Smith articles end up on. The reporting on Shinn being cheap is badly overblown. In the past 5 years Shinn green-lighted 60+ million for already injury-prone Peja, 45 million for David West after he had played one good year, a maximum contract for Baron Davis, 24 million for a 34-year old PJ Brown, and a trade for Chandler and his 10-mil a year contract when Chandler was not a sure thing. The reputation of Shinn being cheap came from his unwillingness to give Alonzo Mourning the largest contract in history (at the time) and not wanting to pay Eddie Jones a maximum contract(phew!). Shinn knows he's got perhaps the greatest player in Hornets history, and GM Jeff Bower will give Paul a maximum contract extension before he can become a restricted free agent. The salaries of our other players have been designed to specifically free up 15+ million dollars in two years - when he becomes eligible. Paul will take it because the Hornets can offer him more than anyone else, he's a very loyal person, and the team is already contending. Why would he go elsewhere? He'll be Hornet for a long time.

Blazersedge: We can all see what Chris Paul does well. What parts of his game need to improve?

Shooting off the dribble going left. He's able to drive anyway he wants, but before shooting, he usually comes back to the right on a spin move or cross-over before launching a shot - and those shots aren't always wonderful. He can drive hard right, get to the basket or hit a nice jump-stop fadeaway or amazing quick set shot, but those moves aren't there going left. His 3-point shooting isn't perfectly consistent, though it's improving and he's already a good three-point shooter. Lastly, his backcourt defense can be spotty sometimes. In the half-court he really is a very disciplined and solid defender, but he can get a little over eager and will pressure a team too much as it brings the ball up. He can sometimes be caught by fast ball movement in those situations and give up an easy transition basket.

Thanks to Ryan and Hornets247.com Check out their site today for some questions they asked us.

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)

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Comments

Yup

I'm glad Ryan made the Chris Paul situation CRYSTAL clear. We're not getting him and neither is any other team.

I wish you had asked him if he was concerned about the team moving. Unless that was too sensitive a subject.

by jayseyfield on Jan 21, 2008 10:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Hornets Moving

My gut feeling is they are more likely to be moving than not. You can see my take on it here:

http://www.hornets247.com/post.php?id=419

Still - New Orleans fans can stop it from happening if they show up to the games.

by Ryan Schwan on Jan 22, 2008 6:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

True story

What is it going to take for NO fans to show up? I mean you guys have a good young core, are winning in a tough conference, why is it that the fans are staying away?

TheOdenator

by TheOdenator on Jan 22, 2008 3:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

NO is a poor city that isn't that big

Portland is bigger. And the New Orleans Hornets had problems drawing fans before Hurricane Katrina wiped out much of the city. There are lots of folks in NO who like the hoops (and the Hornets); but far too many of 'em can't afford NBA tickets.

Plus, the Big Easy is a football town, first and foremost.

by EngineerScotty on Jan 22, 2008 3:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ryan is right

The Hornets, IMO, have the most effective starting five in the league next to the Pistons. Scarily, our starting five can eventually develop to be MUCH better than those five. Damn!

by Eventine on Jan 21, 2008 10:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

White unit will be key

Our bench is much better than theirs. If our starters play their starters close, we've got a good chance in this one.

by jksnake99 on Jan 21, 2008 10:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

i never understood

where anyone got the idea that chris paul was going to be up for grabs.

ignacio

by ignacio on Jan 21, 2008 11:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'll help you out

It started with a bogus article by Canzano in the off-season.

I hope that clears things up!

"Life is a meaningless sequence of events in between Blazer championships"

by broggerboy19 on Jan 22, 2008 9:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The latest Buzz? Really?

That's your lead-in pun? Oh, Dave! Where is thy sting!

I will never waste a beer. There are too many sober kids in India. -Rod Benson

by supremepuntiff on Jan 22, 2008 12:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

It's hard to bee all things to all people.

I'm not stubborn, just obstinate

by T Darkstar on Jan 22, 2008 12:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Relax, Dave

we're just pollen your leg.

by EngineerScotty on Jan 22, 2008 12:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hive five for that one!

I heckle to make up for my insecurities. I have a comb-over.

I will never waste a beer. There are too many sober kids in India. -Rod Benson

by supremepuntiff on Jan 22, 2008 12:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

A guy monikered Supremepuntiff

WOULD appreciate this thread. :)

by BlazersOrBust on Jan 22, 2008 1:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

What's not to appreciate?

I'm not stubborn, just obstinate

by T Darkstar on Jan 22, 2008 1:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

But but but Canzano said!

I hope Hornets fans everywhere know that 99.9999% of us Blazer fans are sane and did not think Chris Paul would magically be allowed to leave. Unless we think Oden/LMA/Roy will do the same to us?

Our favorite friend John Canzano started the PAUL WILL BE A BLAZER movement as far as I know (sure, others mentioned it before but he helped make it seem like Portland plans for it) with his repeated assertions that KP has his sights on Paul or Deron. While I'm sure he'd LIKE to have either one of them, I'd be worried if he was pinning his championship hopes to this ever happening. It's silly.

Everyone knows that we'll get Paul with a sign and trade of Darius, Raef, and a 2nd round pick. Shinn has to get SOMETHING back for losing Paul, and we don't even play Miles or Raef so we lose nothing. It hurts giving up the 2nd rounder, but you gotta make sacrifices for a guy like Paul.

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jan 22, 2008 5:15 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

It has to be a late 2nd rounder

Since Darius and Raef don't play, they have "fresh legs." I hear that term all the time so fresh legs has to be a hot commodity.

Our blog administrator could beat up your blog administrator.

by tominhawaii on Jan 22, 2008 10:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Come On

Man Mortimer. Don't be stingy. At least give us Josh McRoberts too. If we throw in Chandler, can we get Taureen Green?

by Ryan Schwan on Jan 22, 2008 6:21 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

You're greedy

He offered you a second-rounder, Josh is a second-rounder.

Are you sure you can guarantee that Chandler can provide as much benefit as Taurean is giving us? You're asking a lot....

by jscot on Jan 22, 2008 8:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Shucks

You're right - McRoberts AND a Pick is more than we deserve.

How's this for Chandler. If he produces less than Taurean, we'll give you West too.

by Ryan Schwan on Jan 22, 2008 8:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

No thanks

We've got roster congestion as it is, so a 2 for 1 isn't on. And I don't think the salaries quite match up.

Thanks for the analysis, and good luck the rest of the season after tomorrow night. We would certainly appreciate any losses you can dish out to Denver, Utah, Houston, and the L*kers. Maybe if all goes well we'll see you in the playoffs.

by jscot on Jan 22, 2008 8:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ryan

Thanks for the question and answer session with Dave. I appreciate fans who provide fairly objective analysis about their team and can communicate it well.

Props on the sarcasm too.

by trinard on Jan 22, 2008 7:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Please!!!!

"This is like choosing between Jessica Alba and Jessica Simpson. Come on, honey, can't we just have a three-way? It'll be fun..."

Lol. Classic Dave.

Nice website Ryan. Thanks dropping in here too and having a nice "quip-fest" with the local knuckleheads (no offense guys).

GO BLAZERS!!!

by 92wastheyear on Jan 22, 2008 8:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Hey!

Watch what you call my friend Mortimer.

That should be "knucklehead" (singular).

by jscot on Jan 22, 2008 10:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

I've been a lurker and fan here for a year or so. During the last two games I had an urge to break in the gameday thread and flail about verbally in frustration, but controlled myself. My team was already getting all the technicals we could handle.

by Ryan Schwan on Jan 22, 2008 9:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Chris Paul here?

No freaking way.

Hopefully most of that has been put to rest as that talk was DRIVING ME NUTS (just a little). Not only do I not think he'd come here, but we have no place for him to really fit.

We're goign to have three great players. We just need the role guys now, and chris paul would be disruptive to what we already have.

Frankly, I see our team as being good with the incoming talent and some minor tweaking.

"No way. I love this town. We're gonna bring back the glory years. These boys are my boys. This is my team and my town." - Greg Oden when asked about leaving.

by ratbastird on Jan 22, 2008 10:49 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Oh Yeah

Thanks Dave and Ryan. These things rock the house and kick some donkey. I really like these.

Our blog administrator could beat up your blog administrator.

by tominhawaii on Jan 22, 2008 11:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

No room for two leaders on one team

Paul and Roy are both natural leaders and deserve their own teams. It would be hard to imagine them co-existing on the Blazers. Ever see "Highlander"? "In the end, there can only be one!"

The reason Canzano is lobbying for Paul is because he REALLY wanted John Nash to draft Paul. Give him credit, he sure called that one, but no regrets for how things worked out.

The Hornets seem destined to move. Who will get to Oklahoma City first, NO or the Sonics? The race is on!

Ryan, I love that cityscape banner.

by MiledAnimal on Jan 22, 2008 11:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Dave

This was a great exchange- good questions and answers by both.

The one thing I take issue with: Dave, Chris Paul is vastly superior to Brandon Roy. It isn't even close. Paul is dominating in every stat (sabermetric and traditional) and has led a worse supporting cast to a better record.

by jksnake99 on Jan 22, 2008 12:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Vastly?

Chose your words carefully here. Much of Roy's affect doesn't show up in the box score. At this time in Paul's career he was very close to the player Roy is. Both by observation and metrics these players were better or worse than each other in different areas. The fairest thing here to say is they are both great players.

You think NO has a worse supporting cast? West, Chandler, Mo Pete Peja? Nah. Those guys are further along in their development, are more consistent and refined. Roy plays with inconsistent youngens, while Paul spends the vast majority with this established starting five.

The Hornets have also played the weakest schedule in the entire league, Portland the 11th toughest.

by Pinot on Jan 22, 2008 1:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, vastly

I realize that's a big statement. To me, Paul is in the top 3-4 MVP candidates. Roy is a borderline all-star (I feel he deserves it but if he doesn't make it, it wouldn't be an all-time snub). Your point about NO's starting lineup is true- they are more experienced and established. I'd argue ours is just as talented, but in referring to Roy's supporting cast, I mostly meant our vastly superior bench.

I love Roy- I think he's one of the top 15-20 players in the league. Its just that I think Paul is already the league's best PG (yes, ahead of Nash, Kidd, Parker, D. Williams, Calderon, Billups, etc.) My statement is about how highly I think of Paul- it's in no way a knock on Roy.

by jksnake99 on Jan 22, 2008 3:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Agree with you on Paul...

... he's no worse than #2 among point guards, and has outplayed Steve Nash at least once this year. He's certainly better than Kidd (declining noticeably), Billups or Parker (great players). He's way outclassed Deron Williams this year. And Calderon doesn't deserve mentioning in the same breath as Paul.

Paul gets the starting PG slot on my personal NBA first team (a squad which includes him, Kobe, LeBron, KG, and Dwight Howard).

But I'd put Roy higher than 15-20; he's in the top 12 in my book. My NBA second team is undecided whether to include him or AI alongside Steve Nash at the guard spots (with Yao, Duncan, and Paul Pierce making up the rest of that team). If he doesn't make the second team, he's a lock to make the third (alongside Wade, Dirk, Bosh, and--I can't believe I'm writing this--Chris Kaman). And outside of Paul (or Kobe), there isn't a guard in the WC I would trade Roy for--not DW, not Nash or AI (both due to age), not Parker or Manu. The only guard from the Eastern Conference I would consider trading Roy for is Dwyane Wade--and I think Roy has a better future going forward (largely due to not being hurt so much recently, and to not being stuck on the Heat).

(Note that my all-NBA teams are only based on this season. Guys like Kidd with good reps but who are in noticeable decline are frequently left off. Guys like 'Melo who are one-dimensional gunners get left off too, no matter how much they score).

Paul is good enough to merit serious MVP consideration this year--though I think the award is Garnett's to lose. Roy is good enough to merit "discussion", but mostly of the "he's a worthy player, but won't win" sort. Which is still an excellent thing--most players never see their name put in the same sentence as "MVP", unless posterized by one.

by EngineerScotty on Jan 22, 2008 4:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

re: yes vastly

But, you overlook the time line. Next year at this time Roy will be better, just like Paul got better in his third year. In the end they look to peak at about the same level of MVP caliber player.

by Pinot on Jan 23, 2008 4:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

See comment below

--Dave

by Dave on Jan 22, 2008 6:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Chris Paul is not the answer, anyway

The Blazers have their "point guard of the future"--it's Brandon Roy. The ideal starting guard to pair with Roy is an undersized "2" who can stay in front of quick point guards and knock down open jump shots. That's not Paul. (It's also not Blake, Jack, Rodriguez, Fernandez or Green...)

by two4larue on Jan 22, 2008 4:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Who is it then?

Most of the undersized "2"s in the league aren't very good at defense. It sounds like what you want is Fred Jones with a jumpshot and a better handle.

Other skills for this "ideal backcourt mate" to have would be good skills at penetrating without the ball, in case someone decides to play Roy for the drive; and good at bringing the ball up court under pressure--Roy still has issues as a transition guard. (But then so do Blake and Jack).

by EngineerScotty on Jan 22, 2008 5:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Roy's not a point guard...

Just like LeBron wasn't a shooting guard and Carmello wasn't a shooting guard, Roy isn't a point guard...

He's a 2 that carries the ball during he last 8 or 10 minutes this year.

The current guard rotation is fully adequate. The reason the Blazers have been losing games isn't because Jack fails to ignite the so-called White Unit or because Blake misses open 3s, it's because the Blazers need TWO more low post players to rotate in with Pryzbilla and LMA. The latter is exhausted, the former seems to have lost the confidence of the coach -- and you will probably see what I'm saying during the New Orleans game...

by timbo on Jan 22, 2008 5:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Roy and Paul

I took the question not as "Who is better?" but "Who would you rather have for your team?" That is exactly how I see it. Paul is great, but would not be as good for this incarnation of the Blazers as Roy is. More to the point, watch where Roy and the Blazers are going to go in the next four years versus Paul and the Hornets. Again, doesn't mean that Roy has better stats or even is a better player, just that this team is quickly becoming seamless in a way that removing Roy and adding Paul would disrupt.

I was amused, though not surprised, by the near-immediate dismissal in some of the comments on Hornets247, which--to be fair--would also happen in reverse here. This is the one part of fan conversation I dislike. Instead of reading something and letting it stretch you a little so you can see new things (or see things in a new way) anything you disagree with must be wrong and the person who wrote it must be delusional. I wonder, then, why people bother to read if they only expect to find (and only will accept) what they already know and believe.

--Dave

by Dave on Jan 22, 2008 6:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I think that most took exception with word

"vastly" as in Paul is vastly better than Roy....to which I say that person is delusional. lol. "Slightly better" ..."somewhat better" or even just "better" I would be ok with (might argue the point but I would be OK with it).

by 92wastheyear on Jan 22, 2008 7:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I wasn't so much referring to that comment. I think that you could make an argument that in, say, an All-Star venue Paul would be vastly better than Roy. I think on the Hornets he's better than Roy would be. On the Blazers with their needs right now not as much. Eventually when you consider wins (and hopefully rings) maybe not so much. It's not exactly comparing apples and oranges because there are a few similarities but they are way at opposite ends of the apple scale. I think it's hard to say which is "better", it depends on your need and the style of game you play.

I think more GMs starting from scratch would choose Paul over Roy if they had to pick one of them first. But I don't think that number would be vast.

--Dave

by Dave on Jan 22, 2008 8:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Roger that

I am mostly amazed at Roy's intangibles. Primarily his decision making. Even with Trout's great shot at the end of the Atlanta game you see Travis look over at Brandon and Brandon wave him on (to take the shot). That was the ipitome of the Brandon Roy experience. I must admit that I don't know if Paul has the same characteristics or not but damn well know Roy does and what it brings to this very young team.

by 92wastheyear on Jan 22, 2008 8:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

but most GM's never construct a legitimate championship contender.

If you want the next HOF PG, Paul is your man.

But if you want a team that will be confident and TOGETHER in the waning moments of an NBA Finals, you take Roy.

Just look at the way the Hornets melted down in the 4th quarter of their last game in the Rose Garden.

Paul is slightly more talented than Roy as an individual, IMO, but so far I haven't seen any other up-and-coming guard that can lead on the court and in the locker room with the exquisite poise that Roy displays every night. He doesn't just have a knack for getting to the rim. He has a knack for motivating, or getting to, PEOPLE.

And I agree that the term "vastly" deserves no mention in a comparison between the two players, unless you are stating that they are both vastly talented and vastly important to their respective teams.

PS., It would be interesting to see who KP would pick if he was forced to choose. He states often that he drafts "for a championship". Under that criteria, I think his choice would be rather clear.

"Life is a meaningless sequence of events in between Blazer championships"

by broggerboy19 on Jan 22, 2008 9:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

don't forget...

... it has been reported by both Quick and Canzano that KP wanted to draft Paul instead of trading down to land Webster and Jack.

KP's a Roy guy, but he's also a Paul guy. Who he would take between the two is not particularly relevant since neither is going anywhere (to the great relief of the fans of both teams). If forced to choose with a gun to his head, KP might stick with Roy because of the chemistry the team has developed and the relationship he has developed with Roy. From a purely basketball sense though, I think he'd take Paul without a 2nd thought.

by jksnake99 on Jan 23, 2008 2:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

KP's a "good basketball player" guy

he knows talent when he sees it.

by EngineerScotty on Jan 23, 2008 3:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure

what you mean by "purely basketball sense"? Do you mean on-the-court or tangibly?

Even in that respect, I don't think Paul has a significant edge. The biggest part of Roy's game, besides his innate leadership prowess, is his ability to elevate his game in the 4th quarter (ala Trout).

That, to me, is more important than ANY on-court attribute of a basketball player, especially if you're in it to win games and, eventually, rings.

It's also what separates great players from those that become LEGENDS.

Who in your opinion is more likely to become a legend? Paul, or Roy?

"Life is a meaningless sequence of events in between Blazer championships"

by broggerboy19 on Jan 24, 2008 9:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with you

On the negativity. I went to ESPN to read the highlights after the Patriots beat the Chargers and it was a downward spiral of negativity from everyone. I hate the Pats but still send a friend from Boston a text message saying congratulations after they win.

I don't mind disagreements, its the dismissing someone as a idiot if you don't agree that chaps my hide. I wish every website could be like Blazers Edge.

Our blog administrator could beat up your blog administrator.

by tominhawaii on Jan 22, 2008 8:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You're an idiot for wishing that!!!!

lol. This place is great. I am spending a lot of time here and am enjoying it enormously. If I get the hankerin' to call someone an idiot (for real) I will go to O-live.

by 92wastheyear on Jan 22, 2008 9:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If every place was like Blazers Edge

I wouldn't be able to have my smug air of superiority over other NBA blogs. "Hmmph, a Warrior fan thinks they can get Richard Jefferson for Al Harrington and Marco Bellinelli? Oh, how cute these other blogs are. They do try so valiantly to discuss the League we love, and you can't fault them for trying".

I'd lose a lot of myself if I couldn't feel better than others. Keep BE better!

Mortimer

by Mortimer on Jan 22, 2008 9:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

Besides forgetting a comma, I was trying to avoid saying all other blogs are full of idiots and Blazers Edge is better. But for real ya'll, I ain't lying none. No one wants to hear the the other opinion if it does not agree with yours. There is some anger here but not a bunch of one lined "you are an idiot" types of posts. There are lots of hugs on this blog.

I don't want to write a diary but da kine had a good podcast and said the Blazers are da kine. He also said the Spurs need one trade. Think we can trade Darius and Raef for Tim Duncan.

Here is da kine's podcast: http://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/podcast/archive?id=2669425

My trade works too: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=454~550~215&teams=24~24~22&te=& ;cash=

Our blog administrator could beat up your blog administrator.

by tominhawaii on Jan 22, 2008 9:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Defending my comment

If you look at stats like John Hollinger's PER or David Berri's win scores, Paul is up there with the likes of Lebron and KG. Roy is up there with the likes of Redd, Carmelo and David West.

Stats are not everything. Roy's value goes beyond his stats. I could not agree more.

I have not seen as much of the Hornets as I would like and, as such, cannot judge Paul's "outside the boxscore" contributions. However, stats (while not fully unbiased) are far more unbiased than fan observations. When it comes to stats, Roy is a borderline allstar while Paul is nothing short of a superstar.

The difference is vast. I would ask that 92wastheyear not call me delusional for making an argument that most non-Blazer fans would agree with.

As to Dave's point that most GMs would take Paul over Roy if starting from scratch, I would agree, but I think the vote would be something like 25-5. I don't think it would be close.

Again, I love Roy. He's great. The list of people I'd trade him for is very short. Chris Paul, though, is on that list.

by jksnake99 on Jan 22, 2008 9:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Ok..not delusional

However why would you except stats over what you can see with your own eyes?? The point I am making is that stats can give you info about something you don't know about (Paul, for example, as both you and I have admitted that we haven't watched as much as we would like). I can look at stats and say Paul is a great player. I have WATCHED Roy and can't imagine someone being more important for our team than him.

PS no way I trade him for Paul

by 92wastheyear on Jan 22, 2008 9:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

thanks

for taking back the delusional comment. I appreciate it.

The reason I like stats is that my love for the Blazers and my personal biases often affect my analysis. I sometimes see the world through rose colored glasses.

Looking at stats gives me something objective (not fully objective because stats have their biases also) but more objective than fans' opinions of their own favorite players. I also admit to being a geek and an afficianado of "Moneyball."

Also, who are you or I to say Paul doesn't give the Hornets the same things outside the boxscore that Roy gives the Blazers? If we can't fairly evaluate these things, shouldn't we use stats- which we can compare fairly?

I'm not sure I'd trade Roy for Paul either. Our chemistry is fantastic and Roy's a big reason why. We've got something great going and we don't want to upset it. I'm pretty sure, though, that New Orleans wouldn't trade Paul for Roy.

Finally, the Blazers resurgence this year has been led by Roy but it has been about TEAM- we've gotten contributions up and down the lineup. I'm not sure Paul has gotten as much help from as many sources as Roy has.

I enjoy this kind of debate.

by jksnake99 on Jan 22, 2008 9:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

PER doesn't play basketball

throw that junk out. PER never shows the true value players like Duncan and Roy. One main reason is because usage is such an important cog.

I am a saberhead, but basketball metrics just don't stand up to the definition they provide of baseball. Most of the time they skew reality to a fault in basketball.

by Pinot on Jan 23, 2008 4:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Just to Point out

I know that Roy means a lot to the Portland team and that he's a natural leader for him. I'm not going to try to sway you from your opinions - I'm a fan of my team and my team is playing so well the thought of trading any of our starting five for anyone else - no matter how good - is anathema to me.

What I want to point out that Chris Paul is also a natural leader. From the day he arrived on the team as a rookie, he was leading the squad. Veteran players were falling in line behind him - and he had guys on his team who'd been in the league for 10-15 years.

I'll enjoy watching these two guys go at it for years, since Paul is 22 and Roy 23.

by Ryan Schwan on Jan 23, 2008 6:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I concur

I am gonna steal your line and turn it around for us.

"I know that Roy means a lot to the Portland (our) team and that he's a natural leader for him. I'm not going to try to sway you from your opinions - I'm a fan of my team and my team is playing so well the thought of trading any of our starting five for anyone else - no matter how good - is anathema to me."

Well said! I guess that is why you are a pro.

by 92wastheyear on Jan 23, 2008 8:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

bleh

Hmm - well said except for my inability to make sense at the end of that first sentence. I shall now go report to 3rd grade English.

Enjoy the game tonight!

by Ryan Schwan on Jan 23, 2008 8:34 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I knew whatcha meant

Good luck! Thanks for dropping by ...it was cool

by 92wastheyear on Jan 23, 2008 8:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Roy vs Paul

Just want to clarify Paul is my boy, I've touted him as vastly superior to Deron Williams since day one (in college). I love Chris Paul and probably would just jump off a (short) building rather than make a choice between he and Roy. The point is, Paul is not vastly superior to Roy. That judgement can't be made until the players peak for a good amount of time anyway.

At this point all observation, speculation and statistics point to them being on vary similar paths of value. I would say Paul has a slight edge because he is a true point and they generally have more value than combo guards, but it's still darn close.

by Pinot on Jan 23, 2008 5:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs