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Around SBN: 2011 In Extreme Home Runs

Playoffs

Just as day follows night this eight-game (and counting!) win streak has resurrected the talk of making the playoffs.  Questions, comments, and accusations abound.  So let's stop and take a look at this subject once again...

One of the major reasons we're going to have difficulty making it this year is the competition.  Here are the teams above us:

San Antonio
Dallas
Phoenix
Denver
Utah
L*kers
New Orleans
Golden State

In addition Houston is half a game behind.  That's nine teams in serious competition with us right now...ten total teams for eight slots.

A few of those names don't even bear mentioning.  San Antonio, Dallas, and Phoenix are so far out of our league they might as well be supermodels to our Ricky Lake.  No comparison to them is apt and they're extremely unlikely to fall out of the playoff picture.  So let's leave them alone and concentrate on teams a little closer to us.

Of the remaining teams, the following are true:

--Five of six have a better record than we do right now.  The sixth, behind by exactly one win, was predicted by many to contend for a championship this year.

--All six finished with a better record than we did last year.

--Five of six made the playoffs last year.

--Four of six are led by proven, bankable, commonly-acknowledged superstars.  Houston and Denver have two of them each.  The remaining two teams--Utah and New Orleans--have few questions about their talent level.

--I hate the way most people use stats, especially when they cite them in isolation.  But one of the most reliable stats year-in and year-out, even standing all on its own, is point differential.  Every year there's a team or two that overachieves in overall record for the first part of the season but still has a negative point differential.  Those teams almost always come back to earth before the season is through.  If they somehow sneak into the playoffs anyway they get slaughtered.  Of all ten teams listed we are by far the lowest and the only one with a negative point differential.

--We are the youngest and least proven of those teams.  We are also the most mercurial so far.  Our season has gone like this:  3-game losing streak, 4-game winning streak, lose 9 of 10, win 8 in a row (and counting).  What reflects the real Blazers?  All of it does.  This is who we are right now, capable of great streaks and abysmal ones.  That's typical of a young, talented team.  It's not typical of a team that's going to make the playoffs against tough competition.  We just won 8 straight and that's a great accomplishment.  Nothing can or should take away from that.  But the bigger picture also shows us that we needed to win 8 straight just to get one game above .500.  That's not true of most of our competition.

--I don't even like to talk about such things, but people sometimes speculate about injuries to other teams opening the door.  But what about our team?  Oden is out.  Roy's heel seems to be a periodic concern.  Aldridge has plantar fasciitis which is definitely a chronic problem.  What other team has that kind of cloud over their three top players?  And by the way, what's with hoping that other teams' injuries will allow us to back into the playoffs anyway?  What does that really mean?  Certainly not that we were legitimately the 8th best team, deserving of the spot.  That doesn't show much about our progress at all.  It would mean we were the 10th best team but teams 8 and 9 got bad breaks the last month of the season.  Would we take it? Sure.  But I'm not sure it's something to crow about or wish for.

--Following up on that point, having to wish that other teams fall back instead of you just being able to man up and take it no matter what anybody else does is a fairly sure sign you're not ready.

Now of course people are going to come up with tons of reasons why all of this doesn't matter...most of them intangible.  I guarantee you there are Cleveland Brown fans this instant coming up with dozens of plausible-sounding reasons why their team is eventually going to face and then beat the Patriots.  99.99% of the world outside of Cleveland will tell you that's not going to happen because 99.99% of the time it won't happen.  Similarly when you have a worse won-loss record, a far shakier track record, less experience, fewer bankable superstars, and statistical red flags compared to your competition it matters.  Odds are quite long against you or the team coming up with something that matters more or is enough to make the difference.

Does this mean we can't make the playoffs? Of course not! Anything can happen. But it does mean that if you had to pick one team that wouldn't make it this year that team would probably be the Blazers. And for decent reason too. We can root for them to make it, but I don't think it's anywhere close to obvious or expected at this point.

Two things about this whole discussion make me raise my eyebrows in amusement/consternation.

First, there are places and ways to have high expectations and places and ways to have lower expectations and I think many folks have them exactly reversed.  Blazer fans seem to exalt the eighth seed as if it were the Golden Goose and all we have to do is get there any way we can and everything will be great from then on.  Just returning to the playoffs like that shouldn't be on such a pedestal.  Granted our two-decade streak of never missing the post-season was amazing and wonderful, but that doesn't mean that just getting back there once means we're back and everything is OK.  That is far too high of an opinion about the low seed and far too low of an opinion about our potential.  The backbone of this club's history isn't defined by the consecutive appearance streak.  It's defined by 1977, the first part of 1978, 1990, 1991, 1992, and to a lesser extent the runs in 1999 and 2000.  The current incarnation of the Blazers has a very good chance to meet and exceed all of those franchise-defining benchmarks.  The catch is, that's not going to happen this year.  In the long run the final outcome this year probably won't matter a hill of beans except that we showed growth and laid the foundation for what came later.  We should play as hard as we can this year.  We should win every game we can this year.  We should learn how to execute, close games, play together, and all of those developmental things.  How many games we actually win is not necessarily indicative of whether we succeeded.  Whether we happen to win the last 2-3 games that would put us over the top of the other current competitors for the 8th spot probably doesn't matter a bit.

Our expectation of what it means to make the playoffs is too high and needs to come down.  Our expectation of how quickly we can make the playoffs is probably too high also and needs to come down.  Our confidence and vision of what this team will be long-term is too low and needs to come up, which in turn will allow us to relax a little more and enjoy the short term even if our hopes and dreams aren't fulfilled immediately.  This should be less about glorifying the 8th seed, less about seeing this winning streak and our first winning month as a (probably false) jump start to getting that short-term fix fulfilled, and more about enjoying it for what it is...a fantastic (and certainly true) beginning step on the journey to becoming great. That's my take anyway.

Blazer fans remind me a little of a guy who used to get involved in relationships that were decent (but not perfect) but has not dated anyone in a while.  Now by some stroke of luck or fate he finds himself going out with someone who has the potential to be near-perfect, maybe even The One.  But he keeps treating and thinking about the relationship like it was still those decent-but-imperfect ones back then and acting accordingly.  What's more he's upset that this new girl might not go to bed with him right this instant and in his impatience to get going is unwilling to wait for the relationship to flower.  Maybe we need a friend to take us aside and say, "Hey dude...what's the matter with you?  She's gorgeous.  She's got a fantastic personality.  Everybody thinks she'll turn out to be just about the most wonderful girl around.  Other guys are envying you already.  You're going to want to spend the rest of your life with her.  What are you stressing about?  Relax and let it happen."

Which leads us to the second thing that bothers me, which is people who accuse folks who take the longer-term view of not being as real or passionate or devoted of fans as they are.  That kind of horse-pucky accusation was rampant in the Jailblazer days and I think we've had enough of it for several generations of fans.  There's a reason I can stick "139 games until the Blazers return to the playoffs" in the header of this site instead of having to put 57.  First of all it's because I believe that's the most likely probability by far.  If the team jumps the gun and shaves 82 games off of that don't bother shoving it in my face either, because I promise you I'll be just as excited and happy as you are, if not more.  (By the way that also wouldn't mean that the general assessment was incorrect.  If a guy tells you there's a 95% chance of a certain hand winning after the river card is shown and it turns out the other hand wins that doesn't mean the analysis was faulty.  It just means that nothing is iron-clad and you got the 5%.)  Second--and most people underestimate this--I believe that we are absolutely going to crack that top eight next year.  This is more of a guarantee than most detached observers will give you with Oden's injuries and the youth of our team.  Third, and most importantly for our purposes, I can make that statement with confidence because I believe in the future of this team wholeheartedly.  I am not in the least threatened or worried by the fact we might not make the playoffs this year because I know that in a little while making the playoffs is going to be an absolute given and we're going to be worried about whether we make the Finals or win a championship.  Because I know this I am not going to go off the deep end if we only win 38 this year or if we lose 8 in a row after winning 8 in a row.  I am not going to rend my clothes and pull out my hair.  I am not going to call for the coach's head, propose 87 weird trades, accuse the team of underachieving, and post angry comments at my fellow fans.  The reason I don't have to ride the roller-coaster with every win and loss this year is not that I care less, it's that I believe more.  This team doesn't have to make the post-season this year to make me love it, see the good in it, and enjoy watching it.  

If we're going to judge betweens fans as to who is the more passionate and faithful (which I find a deplorable, ridiculous, and stupid exercise, but it seems to be popular when subjects like this come up) who do you think evidences those qualities most?  Is it the guy who has to make the playoffs right now in order to feel vindicated and bullies/accuses anyone who says different or is it the guy who says, "I doubt we're going to make it this year, but I believe we ARE going to make it soon enough and I have faith in the direction and talent of this team regardless"?  As often happens, the folks who are shouting (or at least implying) that they are the most faithful probably aren't.

That's my two cents anyway.

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)

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I will sleep like a baby
after we win a championship.

Promise.

--Dave

by Dave on Dec 19, 2007 1:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Of course as I am finding out
"sleep like a baby" is a totally bogus expression.  Technically speaking I just claimed that I will wake up every ten minutes, scream, and poop my pants after we win a championship.  Which, now that I think of it, may also happen.

--Dave

by Dave on Dec 19, 2007 1:45 AM PST up reply actions  

HAHA
I laughed heartily, maybe even guffawed, at this.  Now every in the office is looking at me like I'm loony.

by coolguyrob on Dec 19, 2007 1:54 AM PST up reply actions  

BTW
I agree with everything that you wrote about.  However, while I don't expect to make the playoffs this year, it is ok to HOPE we make the playoffs this year, isn't it?

by coolguyrob on Dec 19, 2007 1:57 AM PST reply actions  

Oh heck yeah
I hope we do!  I'd be overjoyed!  That doesn't bother me a bit. We should want to win every single game we can!  What bothers me is people who say or imply any of the following:

--we have to or the year will be a disappointment, Nate sucks, our talent isn't as good as we thought, etc...

--anyone who thinks we aren't going to is unfaithful or less of a fan

--anyone who thinks we aren't going to also thinks the team sucks and/or doesn't appreciate them

--making the playoffs or not is the defining measure of this season or whether or not they enjoy the season

--Dave

by Dave on Dec 19, 2007 2:04 AM PST up reply actions  

And actually
I should say that despite what it may sound like in certain parts I'm not trying to be the arbiter of how people should think, feel, or believe as fans.  If you believe the team will make the playoffs, then BELIEVE!  (As I said, I'd be plenty happy if your belief were vindicated!  There's nothing like the feeling of that first playoff game of the year when your team is in it.)  The problem I have is when belief turns into intolerance/accusations against others who don't believe in the same way, especially when there's reason to believe the other way...which in this case I obviously think there is.

I believe the Blazers will beat the Raptors tonight.  There's not a ton of detached, logical evidence for that belief.  In fact there may be some against it, especially if you talk to Toronto folks.  I'm not going to get mad at folks who think the Raptors will win, call their assertions stupid, or question their loyalty.  In fact I will admit that they are probably right even as I hold onto my belief. Neither will I be crushed if we do lose because I know that winning a ton is right around the corner.

--Dave

by Dave on Dec 19, 2007 2:17 AM PST up reply actions  

I edited in a paragraph
to make the intent/slant more obvious.  Thanks for the good feedback.

--Dave

by Dave on Dec 19, 2007 2:24 AM PST up reply actions  

No thanks needed
The good feedback was completely unintentional (it just took me like 5 tries to spell that right).  I just wanted to note the difference between expecting and hoping.  I don't expect to score with the prom queen in the back of the limo, but man I sure hope to!!!

by coolguyrob on Dec 19, 2007 2:30 AM PST up reply actions  

Three thoughts
  1. I now suspect N.O. will implode, and may not make the playoffs despite talent level.  Chemistry is not good, and they won't win as many as they should.  
  2. I suspect Denver and/or Utah may also implode, if not getting the results they expected.  This can destroy confidence, break down teammate relations, etc.  Both of these could see trouble ahead.
  3. If the streak lasts through this homestand, I'll believe we're going to the playoffs.  If we actually win the games we should, we'll be there, and we might even get a 6 or 7 seed.  Nate has found the right chemistry, the right defense, and guys are filling their roles.  We may not be as good in the first seven players as a lot of teams, but we're actually quite deep.

It's all good.  It's "culture".  It used to be part of Trailblazers culture that you win more than you lose, always make the playoffs, and rise to challenge for it all from time to time.  That needs to be part of the culture again, it will be, and it's starting early.

by jscot on Dec 19, 2007 2:25 AM PST reply actions  

I agree with you.
New Orleans has the look of the 2000 Blazers - talented, but mercurial. They're not deep.

George Karl has a history of alienating his players, and AI has a long track record annoying teammates and coaches.  KMart is officially a wildcard.

I think Utah will pull it together.  Sloan is a tough customer, and he will beat performance out of his team if necessary...

I expected to see this team come together, but much later in the season.  I think this team had every reason to expect to make the playoffs this year (yes, even after Oden's injury) from day one.  No one, however, could have predicted the way in which it has happened.  As long as different players keep stepping up, this is a really tough team to prepare for.

by webted on Dec 19, 2007 4:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I consider us a lock for the playoffs...
in the eastern conference, problem is that we are out west where there are 10 teams that deserve to get in.  sucks...
RUDY > MJ

by myemic23 on Dec 19, 2007 3:36 AM PST reply actions  

I agree with you except...
First off, that was a great post. I absolutely agree with you that we can't expect a playoff run this season. Furthermore that wasn't really the point of this season. As I see it anything that goes well this time around is just a bonus. This is the time to get the youngest of the young guys more experience, and time to gel as a team.

I do however take one exception with your post, and thats the significance of a playoff seed. Even if it is the 8th seed, in fact maybe especially if it is the 8th seed it will give the team a look at what a real championship team looks like in the playoffs. As it stands none of the teams key guys have one single minute of playoff time. They are going to get  it, but as I see it, better now when we have nothing to lose than next year. This team needs experience badly, and if we can get it before there are any real expectations of success all the better.

The Blazers are finally on their way back.

by Ripcity Fanatic on Dec 19, 2007 4:22 AM PST reply actions  

38 games
I'd be rather happy with that because that's a 6 game improvement without oden and what I'd predicted with Zach's absence.
A wink is the same as a nod to a bat!

by ratbastird on Dec 19, 2007 5:58 AM PST reply actions  

as a fan
all i want is 'my team' to be a bunch of guys i can feel good about supporting (check!) and for them to be competitive (check!). i really couldn't care less if we win a championship (though i won't necessarily complain when we do). the only reason I hope we make the playoffs, this year, or in the future, is just to have a few more games to watch and root for the Blazers. thanks to KP, I am one content, happy basketball fan.

by sergioFTW on Dec 19, 2007 6:10 AM PST reply actions  

Mostly my thoughts
as well. The quality of teamwork and character in playing hard, together and working to improve every week are reward enough. The wins and the championships may come with this formula. I want us to be vindicated that this formula can win so I am invested in the outcome for that reason. But as Dave has written so well - no expectations beyond those above. Not this year and maybe not next year either. In my opinion we are still two starters away from competing for a championship. That may take two or even three more years to acquire (one is obviously Oden and needs to heal). In the meantime this is a team right now that I can watch (well mostly read about thanks to comcast) and enjoy and acknowledge as the team I root for.

by lee3022 on Dec 19, 2007 5:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Agree with the statement that
the season is not a failure if we don't make the playoffs.

Disagree with many of your points about the teams ahead of us.  Based on this no new blood would make the playoffs ever.  Cleveland would still be awful, Miami wouldn't have won a title and we would still be whining about having to watch the La*ers, Celtics and Bulls in the finals all the time.  New teams make the playoffs by being a surprise during the season which we are already seeing.  

I take some small issue with the point differential stat this early in the season as the Blazers have played one of the more difficult schedules in the league and played absolutely AWFUL for a stretch of that.  I believe that stat will continue to normalize during the season and wind up right around 0.  While I expect the Blazers to lose a few more, I don't expect them to play that terribly again barring major injury problems.

Certainly there are some losing streaks in order and none of the teams we've beaten this streak has won more than 15 games (good but not elite), but playoffs is a real and viable possibility.  You don't need to win 8 straight to make the playoffs, you just need to be a little better than .500 and I think the Blazers have as good a shot as any of the other teams to do that.  No better, no worse.

My ignorance is my greatest weapon

by shenanigans on Dec 19, 2007 6:28 AM PST reply actions  

Nice post
Just a couple of quibbles.  First, as Ripcity Fanatic suggests, this young team can't get it's first playoff experience too soon.  They say you're never ready for the added level of intensity of playoff ball until you actually experience it.  So even a "4 & out" series would have value for this team--hastening the time when they advance in the playoffs, then ultimately contend for a title.

Second, just because you need a couple other teams to experience injuries in order to make the playoffs doesn't mean you're "not ready."  That's because there are ALWAYS playoff-level teams that fall out of the picture due to injuries.  Injuries are a huge part of the story of each NBA season.  The Blazers' own playoff hopes for this year took a huge hit with Oden's injury, right?  So in fact, a key injury to Golden State, New Orleans, Denver, or whoever would only even the playing field.

If the Blazers finish this season around .500 (42 wins), they're "ready" for the playoffs.  Whether that record will be good enough this season in the tough Western Conference is the luck of the draw.

"Ime caught the guy in mid-air with a fist and calmly continued his dispatching of oncoming people." -Gabe Muoneke

by hurryup09 on Dec 19, 2007 6:35 AM PST reply actions  

Oops
Obviously, 41 wins would give the Blazers a .500 record, it being an 82-game schedule.  I think I had the number 42 in my head because that's the number of wins Golden State had last season to snag the #8 seed.  (At least, that's my recollection; I'm too lazy to double-check.)
"Ime caught the guy in mid-air with a fist and calmly continued his dispatching of oncoming people." -Gabe Muoneke

by hurryup09 on Dec 19, 2007 7:19 AM PST up reply actions  

Good post, Dave
First off, I want to apologize if any of my previous posts came across in a way that was destructive to forum discussion and open exchange of ideas.  I appreciate the detached analysis that is brought to the table in this forum.  

However, I think most of you in the "let's not get ahead of ourselves camp" are missing or at least severely underestimating some big trends and indicators that are in the Blazers favor compared to some other teams in the 'Big 10' of the playoff race in the west.

  1. Blazers have developed the self-sacrificing team oriented culture that elite teams like the Spurs and Suns have.  While the Blazers current skill level and efficiency is no where near the level of elite teams at this point to be among them, these skills can be taught and young players skills tend to improve at much higher rates compared to older players.  With the Blazer's youth, it can be expected that their players' skills should improve at a higher rate than other teams over the course of the year. On the other hand, culture can't be taught.  People are who they are by nature.  So, don't expect go-it-alone teams like the Nuggets or the Warriors to change their stripes.  This means that they really are who they are and are unlikely to get much better at this point of the season.

  2. Blazers have developed a team identity after the first 17-20 games that they didn't have before.  They needed time to figure out what would work for them.  Their zone defense is active, pesky, and working.  Pretty much every player has found a defined role on the team.  They have the 4th quarter poise to close games out and are getting better and better at playing a full controlled game. This identity doesn't go away in good times or bad.

  3. While it isn't critical that the Blazers make the playoffs this year, it is essential for the long term future of the team to prove to itself that it doesn't need a savior.  That was one of the things that was bothering me most about fan perceptions coming into the season.  Oden doesn't need the pressure to be the league's next great anything either.  We just need him to become one of the big 3 along with Roy and LMA.  With the way the season is going, the team is learning that it can succeed on the court without being dependent on a crutch like Oden would provide.  The value of this lesson cannot be underestimated and can only make the team stronger when Oden starts contributing.

  4.  Unfortunately, injuries are pretty much out of anyone's control and play a certain 'luck' factor.  Yes, the Blazers might lose Roy for a period of time to his heal or LMA to his foot.  But the same could be said about Camby in Denver or Baron Davis in Golden State or Stojakovic in New Orleans.  Pretty much every team has critical players who seem prone to injury.

Aside from the winning streak, it can't be disputed that the trends are definitely pointing in the Blazer's favor.  They are only going to get better and more efficient over the course of the season and the things they are doing well, like team culture, aren't going to go away.  I suppose my points fall a little too much into the intangibles category even for my liking, but there are some things that numbers can't fully capture like desire, passion, guts, motivation, effort, poise, or Pryz's real value to the team.

I stand by my assessment that the Blazers will not only make the playoffs, but they will win the division.

by BootStrapper on Dec 19, 2007 6:54 AM PST reply actions  

Good points
I don't necessarily share your optimism for this year, but I thought your points were valid.
"Timmy, you eat your vegetables or I'm going to make you watch Channing Frye play interior defense!" (GULP! CHEW-CHEW-CHEW!) - Dave

by jamon51 on Dec 19, 2007 9:18 AM PST up reply actions  

I like
the point about needing a savior.  This is one of the things the Blazers needed to prove this year.  I think they already have to some extent.  I don't think making or missing the playoffs is the key barometer as to whether they've proved it but it would sure be some fine icing on the cake.  They have also proved, however, that they very much need a low-post scoring threat and an interior defender...somewhat conveniently exactly what Oden brings.  He may not be a savior, but he will make this team exponentially better.

That's another thing about this whole issue I suppose.  It's temporary.  Next year I assume everyone from the team to the fans to the organization will come loaded for bear and the confidence that we're going to make the playoffs (and maybe even do something once we're there) will be extremely high.  (I hope, anyway.)

--Dave

by Dave on Dec 19, 2007 11:54 AM PST up reply actions  

Great Post Dave
Although Blazer fans know that this year was really just a transition year from a mediocre team to a good team, we want to believe that the transition is taking place now, right before our eyes.  Good teams, as Nate has said, know how to make adjustments, night after night.  You can't win consistently in this league without adjusting to what your opponent throws at you.  This is what was most impressive about the Denver/New Orleans back-to-back wins.

With that said, we all want the Blazers to win every night, and when your team is on a streak, it feels like it will never end, but you know it will.  When you are making money in the stock market, you truly begin to think that you can never lose money in the stock market.  It is that belief that causes you to make bad decisions when things start to turn.  I think that this is part of Dave's point about some over-exuberance on the part of Blazer' fans about playoff possibilities this year.  We have to be prepared, as true fans, to take whatever this year throws at us, because, like the stock market, it will be highly volatile.  Ups and downs.  But we can't lose sight of why we think this team has such a bright "future."  We are young and learning.  We have to experience the big loses, the close wins and loses, and the big wins.  We also have to begin to experience playoff basketball, but that will come.

It might be crazy to say this, but I have thought that the best thing for Oden this year might have actually been to sit out the season.  It took so much pressure off of him and the team.  It will make next year easier for him, when there will be another number one pick to focus on.  Other comments have addressed this in the past.

The last comment I want to make about this playoff issue relates to my feeling about Roy.  He is the one player on the team that truly looks ready to be in the playoffs, other than maybe Pryz and Raef.  It is amazing how composed he is on the court.  The problem is that he needs to bring everybody else on the team with him.  That will take some more time, but he will do it.  Roy is that good.

Finally, as Dave has said, let's keep up the enthusiasm about this team, our team, Portland's team, no matter what this year brings.

Scotte

by BlazerScott on Dec 19, 2007 8:23 AM PST reply actions  

smart people reading and posting
long ago i said the blazers make the playoffs this year and go deep next. then oden went down. now i think they play .500 ball and MAY make the playoffs if that record's good enough.

i don't know if this has been mentioned...

  • utah improved very quickly, they may have overachieved last season.
  • denver i think is still a fun-with=chemistry question mark,
  • golden state overachieved last year and may not this,
  • the lakers... too early to tell if this is the real lakers or not.

the thing to look for with the blazers is consistency. the more they get, the better they'll play. it will take time, but they'll get there.

by rburg on Dec 19, 2007 9:01 AM PST reply actions  

word
Dave, you said it.

This season is a real test of our resilience as fans.  The worst part is that even our long-term future isn't a sure thing despite KP's excellent long-term rebuilding strategies, because of the injury-prone nature of our Big Three.  Conventional wisdom might suggest that Oden won't miraculously recover from microfracture surgery and will struggle in his first year and in the future with the knee.  There's a reason Roy slipped to 7th in the '06 draft.  Aldridge has had a rash of strange things happen ...

But this is also the youngest team in the NBA.  These aren't the same concerns that fans have for Camby or Peja, veterans on the downside of their careers.  We have a lot of growth to look forward to, and most of that will happen AFTER this season.

I can understand some fans' desire to prove it to the world that we don't need a "savior" in Oden to return to prominence.  That may be true, but we certainly need a dominant big man to get any rings.  Part of the issue, as Dave suggests with the hot girlfriend analogy, is that we just want to get back to our old ways of 45-win seasons and low playoff seeds, but those days are over.  Let's set our sights on the NEW Blazers vision that Nate, KP and Allen have created for us: youth, character, clutchiness, and the Baby Big Three.

Go Blazers!

by kickbrass on Dec 19, 2007 9:04 AM PST reply actions  

8th seed and Point Differential
Thanks for the timely & thorough post, Dave.

Two points:

1- 8th seed.  Agreed that the 8th seed is not a terrific outcome.  However, if we get the 8th seed, we will have fought for it down the stretch and likely will have won at least several 'must win' games.

After the last 3 years, I think this fan base is desperate to experience meaningful games in March and April.  The Garden will be at a fever pitch come April if we're in the playoff hunt.

Plus, even a dusting at the hands of the Spurs will help prepare this young team for playoff caliber basketball down the line.

2- Point differential.  I was looking at the same stat this week when comparing the West's top ten.  
I don't put a lot of weight into it though, because our Blazers are obviously going thru a relatively extreme 'tale of two seasons'.  I just don't see us playing as poorly again as we did during the drought.  Even if we play .500 ball the rest of the way, I'd bet our point differential would swing towards the positive in our direction.

That said, I'm hard pressed to predict playoffs for us this year, because of youth, health, and the teams above us.  But man, if seeing is believing, it is SO hard not to think this club can do it this year.

Go Blazers!

by royalridge on Dec 19, 2007 9:18 AM PST reply actions  

If it is the teams goal to make the playoffs
this year shouldn't that be our desire as fans too?

I'm with you on the long term vision for the team.  This year is about growing as a team and learning how to play together.  I'm of the opinion though that making playoffs will be more beneficial than a late lottery pick.

by jayjaylbh on Dec 19, 2007 9:34 AM PST reply actions  

I agree
I'm not on board at all for the "it would be better to miss and get a pick" thing.  It's not a matter of whether it would be nifty to make the playoffs...it would and we should absolutely win every single game we can.  The question is whether we can, how really vital it is in defining us right now, and whether we as fans should expect it (or how much we should base on it).

--Dave

by Dave on Dec 19, 2007 9:37 AM PST up reply actions  

This was my arguement for hoping
against all hope that we make the playoffs:

I'd rather not spend my summer on these boards talking about how the ping pong balls are going to bounce (for once).

by Blazerholic on Dec 19, 2007 11:47 AM PST up reply actions  

Wow, thank you
I love this conversation and the thoughtful points!  I think we'll pick up and highlight some of what you all have said in a follow-up post tomorrow.  Please keep adding your thoughts and thanks for consistently helping to buoy my faith in humanity in general and Blazer fans in specific.  (Not because you agree with a darn thing I've said, rather because the points back and forth are exemplary either way.)

--Dave

by Dave on Dec 19, 2007 9:34 AM PST reply actions  

I think that
we have a real chance of making to the playoffs.
I think that 3 of those 6 teams are our main competitors for the 2 spots.
  1. NO - bad team chemistry ( apparently)
  2. Denver - Needs a coach + perimeter defense.
  3. Houston -  underachieving mightly

I also disagree with what you said about bankable superstars. I think that it's easier to make a case that Utah has 2 bankable superstars ( Deron and Boozer) than Denver ( only AI has won anything in the post season) and Houston ( neither "superstar" has won anything relevant)

by Bruno on Dec 19, 2007 10:28 AM PST reply actions  

My first (posted) thoughts
This topic made it so I couldn't stay a quiet lurker anymore.

Anyway, I have felt that the Blazers could make the playoffs from pre-season on. We might need a few more breaks than before Oden's injury, but I don't think it matters too much how we get in so long as it isn't at the end of a 25-game losing streak or something equally terrible. Now heres why I feel that way, which also happens to be the point that I feel strongly enough about to break out words of my own (goodness!!!).

Everyone always talks about our teams lack of experience and what a weakness it is. Now there is only one way to get playoff experience that I know of, and thats by playing in the post-season. Now I don't care if Baron Davis slips on a Big-Mac working his 2nd job and sprains his abdominal muscles, giving us the opening to take the 8 seed from Warriors, so long as we take it. Who cares if we get crushed in the 1st round by the Spurs or one of the other top teams in the West so long as our guys see the level of play and execution and gain an understanding of what it takes to win in the "second season". Plus it gives us fans a season to get tuned up for when we start making real post-season runs, knock the dust off those spring-time vocal cords!

Also: If you didn't get the Baron Davis 2nd job reference watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqQiu4J1sms

by Devenex on Dec 19, 2007 11:07 AM PST reply actions  

Forgot to say...
What an awesome site you run Dave, definitely my most frequented website. Keep up the great work and congrats about the birth of your first child.

by Devenex on Dec 19, 2007 11:10 AM PST up reply actions  

I still have hope
I have been pro-playoffs and having the Blazers finish somewhere in the .500's at the end of the season, even after Oden went down.    I see this year's team as a better team than last year's team and expect them to have a better record than last year's team.  I do not know if they will win 10 more games than last year, but like I said, I expect more than 32 wins.  

Roy, LMA, Outlaw, Webster, and Prz are all playing better than last year.  They added Blake and Jones, who I think are improvements to the roster.

Until the Blazers are eliminated from the playoffs, I will continue to have that as goal for this year.  I may have been a bit contentious with some folks that were looking forward to a lottery pick next year, because I felt like they were giving up on this seasons.  I still respect their right to hope for a lottery pick; I just felt they were selling this group of guys and their coach, short.

Besides, if you look at the trend the Blazers are setting after the last eight games, they will finish with a 70-12 record.  That will probably land them the 1st seed in the playoffs.  We all know how the Rose Garden has been rocking, so home court throughout the playoffs will be a significant advantage for this young team.  Maybe I should give up the playoffs and start talking about the Finals.

Randee of the Redwoods '08

by tominhawaii on Dec 19, 2007 11:53 AM PST reply actions  

Spot on!
And even if the Raptors somehow defy fate and chance and steal a win - no more audacious a feat than Prometheus himself stealing fire from the gods...

I'll be right behind you, dissolving the loss in a cool pint and anticipating the start of the first 56 game winning streak in league history.

Someone has to be the first!

by webted on Dec 19, 2007 1:05 PM PST up reply actions  

This gets kind of tedious...
I don't understand why you cannot earnestly "support" your team by expecting them to win every single game.

I don't understand why you shouldn't "expect" them to make the playoffs until the day they are mathematically eliminated.

I don't understand people who are fans of the "team," yet express their support for their favorite player by bitterly excoriating the performance of teammates that are "stealing" playing time.

I don't understand what is wrong with being overwhelmingly excited by wins and tormented by losses.  

I don't "need my expectations to come down."  My expectations don't change anything.  It just robs me of my chance to enjoy the rollercoaster ride of high highs and low lows.

I believe we're going to make the playoffs this year.  I'll stop believing it the day we don't.

It reminds me a lot of the Seattle music scene.  Live shows can be some of the most sedate affairs imaginable.  The bulk of the audience is so intent on displaying their cool, analytical, slightly jaded music experience that they barely dare to sway to the beat - much less grind their hips or smile and clap.  It's like a group of alcoholic drill sergeants, critically reviewing the troop's dress detail.

I grew up loving the Houston Oilers.  From the early running days with Earl Campbell to the run-and-shoot with Warren Moon - they were my team.  At the peak of Moon's career they bulldozed the Buffalo Bills in the first half of the first round of the '93 playoffs.  Up 28 to 3, I was floating on air.  As the second half opened, Houston stretched it by another seven.  

Then the wheels fell off.  Football fans know the story well... It rates as one of the greatest collapses in the history of the game.  I was crushed.  All day.  Then I got over it and went out to dinner.

I still remember watching that game in clear detail.  I also remember watching Billy Ray Bates slam home the winner way back when.  I remember sitting in my basement brewery, screaming at a 12" B&W TV as the refs waved off Danny Young's buzzer beater against Detroit.  I remember the look on Cliff's face as ball slipped through his hands out-of-bounds.  I remember Porter's close-out shot... just a bit too hard...  Yeah, I remember game 7.  So what if it hurts?

I spent my last week hanging hundreds of feet in the air, clinging delicately to frozen waterfalls with little more than experience, intuition and few pointy metal spikes holding me in space.  At those moments, fear and exhilaration exist in a perfect balance, and my life focuses into a narrow point of acute clarity.  Success.

That's what sport means to me.  Life reduced to ecstatic clarity.

57 more regular-season games until Portland returns to the playoffs.

I'd rather be wrong my way.

-t

by webted on Dec 19, 2007 11:55 AM PST reply actions  

That's all cool
and I'd argue you see plenty of all of that stuff from fans around here, including myself. If you read the Gameday threads--pick any one of them--it's hardly the reserved, "too cool for school" scene you paint.

However the problem comes specifically when people don't express what you have...that this is what you enjoy doing, that it may or may not be in touch with reality, but that's not as important as just believing.  Instead of taking responsibility for the rollercoaster and their enjoyment of it they pawn it off on the team, coaches, and other fans.  Thus we get Nate being a horrible coach three weeks ago and a brilliant one now.  We get people getting derided for analyzing what is going on instead of what we'd like to go on.  We get the organization and its prospects jumping from horrible to unstoppable and back.  We get "Player X sucks!" and "Player X is our franchise!" posts within weeks of each other.  The problem is none of that's really true and it's hard to hold reasonable, communal discussions around things that aren't true.

There seems to be a strain of argument that the only real passion is the "We're going to make the playoffs no matter what!" kind.  I'm arguing strongly against that assessment.  There are plenty of real, live reasons to be passioniate, love the team, and follow it even if we are not going to make it to the post-season this year.  There are reasons to buy tickets.  There are reasons to appreciate what's going on.  And this is true even if you don't ride the rollercoaster.

--Dave

by Dave on Dec 19, 2007 12:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree
But I also think half the fun of going to this blog is sticking up for your favorite player and trashing the ones you don't like, just for the competitive banter.  I think most people realize a lot of what is said here is based on jumping to conclusions and/or tongue-in-cheek.  Honestly, does anyone really think Miles is my favorite player when they have Raef on the roster?
Randee of the Redwoods '08

by tominhawaii on Dec 19, 2007 2:32 PM PST up reply actions  

One more thing...look at Quick's analysis:
"During the winning streak, Portland is 5-0 against the teams ahead of them in the West, including wins at Denver and Utah. For the entire season, the Blazers are 7-4 against the West's Top 8, including 5-0 at the Rose Garden. Two of the losses are against the Spurs, both of which came in San Antonio."

-Jason Quick

by Blazerholic on Dec 19, 2007 11:55 AM PST reply actions  

Playoff validity, milestones, and Chicken Littles
After 82 games, every team in the league finishes in the standings exactly where they belong.  If the Blazers make the playoffs, they deserve to be there -- period.  Sure, when it comes to making the playoffs, it's more fun to see your team blast their way through the front door than back-in through the rear, but either way is valid.

To paraphrase BootStrapper, the Blazers are jelling and trending up. The Streak is not the result of a weak schedule or luck.  It's the result of hard work, commitment, sacrifice, good coaching falling on willing ears, great leadership, courage, and team play. Those things mean more wins are coming.  

Because the team seems to have found its identity, I expect no long losing streaks the rest of the season, barring injury to our one indispensable player, B-Roy.  They've played the toughest part of the schedule and they're one game over .500.  Look over the remaining schedule -- I see no reason why they can't finish over .500 for the season as long as Brandon keeps playing.

Making the playoffs isn't the goal of this team.  It's just a milestone. The goal is to win multiple titles.  I want to see the Blazers hit the playoff milestone this season, not because I think it's a Golden Goose or a lofty achievement in itself, but because I can then walk down the hall to the Laker and Warrior fans at work and throw their snide remarks about my team back in their grills.  

If cautious types like Dave are right and the Blazers miss the playoffs, that means the team needs more pieces, training, experience, and so on.  Making the playoffs this year means they are closer to their ultimate goal. This salad-days stuff is fun and all, but I'd rather see them become a contender sooner than later, wouldn't you?

Dave's wrong when he says that those of you who think the Blazers will make the playoffs need to come back to earth.  That thought makes you feel good and hurts no one, so go for it.  He's right when he says that a fan with a less optimistic opinion isn't less of a fan. Some folks are exuberant, some are cautious.  All kinds are welcome in Blazerland -- even the Dump Nate Chicken Littles that start clucking the minute the Blazers lose two games in a row.

by MiledAnimal on Dec 19, 2007 1:00 PM PST reply actions  

Here's a little statistical static...
Western Conference standings plus cumulative pt. differential

San Antonio     7.0
Phoenix         5.0
Dallas          3.5
Denver          3.7
LAL             5.4
New Orleans     1.2
Golden State    1.4
Utah            5.0
-------------------
Portland       -1.8
Houston         0.5
Sacramento     -3.0
LAC            -4.4
Memphis        -2.5
Seattle        -7.2
Minnesota      -8.1

Western Conference standings plus pt. differential for the last 10 games

San Antonio     3.5
Phoenix         4.3
Dallas          1.3
Denver          0.9
LAL             6.8
New Orleans    -3.3
Golden State    2.4
Utah            0.4
-------------------
Portland        2.8
Houston        -1.9
Sacramento     -1.0
LAC            -3.1
Memphis        -2.8
Seattle        -4.7
Minnesota      -9.5

Like the daytraders say, "The trend is your friend."

-t

by webted on Dec 19, 2007 1:31 PM PST reply actions  

WOW Nice stats!!!
2 things jump out at me.  The first is how terrible the Hornets appear to be doing in the last ten games.  The second is how well the L#k#rs have been doing in the last 10 games, of course, they havent come through portland yet!!!  Thanks for the perspective...
RUDY > MJ

by myemic23 on Dec 19, 2007 3:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Dave
I agree with your post but I believe you are thinking about this too much!  It probably has something to do with your new baby and lack of sleep...

I think if we lightened up about this thing called Blazermania then we wouldn't worry about the predictions, prognostications, or opinions of others so much.

We would take them at face value and JUST HAVE FUN.

Those are my two cents, and I'm 95% certain I'm gonna stick to them.

"Life is a meaningless sequence of events in between Blazer championships"

by broggerboy19 on Dec 19, 2007 1:44 PM PST reply actions  

Expectations, Diction

I had a similar "lighten-up" response to this post. I agree with many of the analytical points  that Dave makes, but disliked the tone. I prefer the ironic distance and cleverness of most his discussion of the team, but found this post to be a bit much.  After reading some of the responses, I suppose I can see where he's coming from. He's a HARD-CORE fan and is defending the wisdom of having appropriate expectations. I think he's onto something insightful there. I think having appropriate expectations IS important because they are so central to our emotions. Most people do not handle having their expectations not met. It's one thing for your hopes to fail to come true, but when something that SHOULD happen doesn't happen, most people become very negative/angry and Dave doesn't want to see that.

One point about word choice. Dave, you write, "There's a reason I can stick '139 games until the Blazers return to the playoffs' in the header of this site instead of having to put 57. First of all it's because I believe that's the most likely probability by far." Now, I know I make grammatical errors all of the time, but this is the second time I've seen you misuse the word probability. In mathematics/statistics, a probability is a numerical number between 0 and 1, representing the chance that an event occurs. For example, the probability that a fair coin comes up heads when flipped is .5. It only makes sense to say that something is the most likely probability when one is trying to estimate the "true" probability that an event occurs, as is sometimes the case in applied statistics (imagine, for example, trying to estimate the probability that it will rain tomorrow, given historical weather records, the barometric pressure today, etc). The number of games until the Blazers return to the playoffs is an event (or unrealized outcome) rather than a probability, so the sentence quoted above sounds incorrect to me.  

by PoliSam on Dec 19, 2007 6:27 PM PST up reply actions  

playoff experience
greetings from sunny Montevideo, Uruguay -- I´ll have to follow the Blazers through your website, Dave, during my little Xmas summer vacation. Hope it´s not raining there, it´s sunny and mid seventies here...  Anyhow, I´d just love for them to get some burn in a playoff series, even if it is one and out.  It would be a great learning experience that will stand them in good stead when they hit their stride.  So, for right now, 8th spot would be fantastic, and I actually think they´ll make it.  But I´m fine with those that don´t.

by BrailleTaser on Dec 19, 2007 2:21 PM PST reply actions  

WhaHaaHaaHa...
"Hope it´s not raining there" WhaHaaHaaHa...WhaHaaHaaHa...
honkaplayboys.com

by BlueBooYay on Dec 19, 2007 5:37 PM PST up reply actions  

To be honest
I'd be disappointed if we didn't make it in.  I know it's a young team, and I fully expect us to be in the lottery again.

That said, I'm a fool for hope.

If we do make it in, though, I'm getting the Blazer logo tattooed somewhere.  That's a promise

by Garces on Dec 19, 2007 4:11 PM PST reply actions  

Tatoo be cool
What ya gonna get? The logo, RipCity, BlazerManiac, Blazer Dancer or what?
honkaplayboys.com

by BlueBooYay on Dec 19, 2007 5:40 PM PST reply actions  

Hey BlueBooYay
Who is the Playboy's mascot?
Randee of the Redwoods '08

by tominhawaii on Dec 19, 2007 5:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Blaze the Trail Cat
I suspect you may alreday know this. Your thinking tatoo, aren't you.
honkaplayboys.com

by BlueBooYay on Dec 19, 2007 5:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Duh, I can not comprehend
and it's early yet.

There are no mascots in all of Europe, as far as I know (which is very little). They appear to have a Equipment Manager/Cheer Leader type

which in MHO is not someting I'd want tatooed on any of my body parts.

The logo however, I believe is a Finnish Phallus Symbol!

honkaplayboys.com

by BlueBooYay on Dec 19, 2007 6:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Whatever
Words, words, words.

I want to win every single game we play. I want to make the playoffs and win the championship. I want to win now and I want to win tomorrow and for years in the future. I've seen the Blazers beat Dallas. I think we could take anybody in the league in a 7 game series. I expect us to make the playoffs and if we don't, I'll be bummed. I'll still be excited about the progress and all that, but I'll be bummed too.

by Jumbo on Dec 19, 2007 6:05 PM PST reply actions  

Care to retract this post, Dave?
That's 9 straight baby!!!

So far this year, we've beaten Utah twice, New Orleans twice, Denver, Golden State, Detroit, and Dallas. At some point you have to stop calling this team lucky, and just start calling them good. (I know that's not what you intended here ... I'm just sayin' ...)

by bfan on Dec 19, 2007 9:55 PM PST reply actions  

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