Przybilla Criticism

by jayseyfield on Jan 19, 2008 11:41 PM PST

Nobody seems to criticise Joel for some reason, and I think there are a bunch of legitimate complaints against Joel.

If you look at the Blazers payroll then you'll notice Pryzbilla is the most overpaid player on this team that plays meaningful minutes. I know numbers aren't everything but for a guy making $5,762,575 this year he should be scoring more than 4.9 ppg. Joel sets good picks, rebounds fairly well and gives this team some toughness but it's still not enough to justify his contract.

I'm not saying it was a mistake resigning him, but his contract would look much worse if we weren't so weak in the center position currently.

I can't believe Joel has never averaged 10 ppg.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?statsId=3408

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I like his rebounding and his defensive effort

I also like his toughness. I love his pick setting...clearly his best offensive feature.

I dislike his scoring ability and what it takes away from our offense. I cringe every time he gets the ball with a little daylight and can't dunk it. I cringe every time people want to pass to him and he can't catch it. In fact I cringe every time I see someone fixing to pass to him unless he's wide open and diving towards the hoop.

I don't like his propensity to foul but I don't think our perimeter defenders help him any.

I never have thought he's as good of an individual defender as people think but I think he's a great help defender.

I don't like it when people think he's the answer to why we won or lost. He isn't.

I will like him best of all, I think, when those 20 minutes and 8-9 rebounds he gets come off the bench for Oden.

--Dave

by Dave on Jan 19, 2008 11:46 PM PST reply actions

I like him but I see Defects...

He's the team's best defender. In fact, I think Nate said that in the JQ story today. He gives great help defense and, but for getting pushed around badly by Shaq, I think he plays good individual defense too.

But you said in your recap that Sergio and Channing have "regeressed some." I see the same thing in Joel on offense. I remember him being an offensive threat a few years ago with Damon. I remember him being an offensive threat earlier this season. The guy still hits free throws nicely--I don't mind him going to the line. But specifically in the last week or two, the guy is fumbling a lot of balls and not getting up and dunking. I'm starting to cringe too. To me it seems more like an injury.

In a sentence, Joel seems to comforable with a very one-dimensional game: rebounding and picking and doesn't feel the need to improve anything else. But he does. Even Duckworth and Cartwright added a facet to their game here and there.

You may be right about people saying he's the reason we won or lost. I know that I personally feak out! when we're losing d-board after d-board after d-board and I feel like at least if Joel was in there we wouldn't be giving up all these 2nd-chance points. It hurts so much to watch that.

My take is that he has to add something on the O-end; something that can put the ball in the hoop. Anything. That'll keep him on the floor longer. And, it'll help out our rebounding on the other end a lot.

by Fizbin on Jan 20, 2008 7:04 AM PST up reply actions

Maybe you don't like it Dave,,

but if he had been playing in the 4th quarter of that fiasco against the 76'ers earlier, this year, we would not have lost that huge lead and the game.

by TwoDeep on Jan 20, 2008 8:17 AM PST up reply actions

What the market bears

I guess that is why he gets paid what he does. It isnt hard to look around the league at centers who produce much less than Joel per dollar.

Just to be a jerk, I dont think ppg is a good indicator of what Joel does.

by jonestr on Jan 19, 2008 11:52 PM PST reply actions

Joel will be a great backup to Oden

I have no problem with his contract. Decent bigs are hard to find.
I also think his offense improves when he's rolling off the high pick with sergio who seems to get him the ball where he likes it......right in front of the rim, haha.

by iDea on Jan 19, 2008 11:59 PM PST reply actions

Just look at what Ben Wallace is being paid!

Big men in the NBA are usually over paid. Nene is making 10 million a year and really has not played for the Nuggets due to a rash of injuries. Joel would have made the same loot just about anywhere else. If I were the Blazers I would not have buyer's remorse. As Dave said he will thrive in a support role off the bench.

by jferg on Jan 20, 2008 12:25 AM PST reply actions

Yeah,

and actually he would have made more signing with the Spurs or the Pistons. He took less to stay with his beloved Blazers.

by TwoDeep on Jan 20, 2008 8:20 AM PST up reply actions

I dont think that is correct

I dont think the Spurs or Pistons could have offered more than the MLE considering each team is hovering at the luxury tax threshold. The Pistons may have had cap space greater than MLE, but I never heard of them offering more than 3 years at the MLE. The Spurs have been hovering at the threshold since they locked up Manu and Parker so they didnt have more than the MLE. I think we offered the same money at more years than everyone else.

by jonestr on Jan 20, 2008 10:44 AM PST up reply actions

Actually, that was kind

of a big story; How he settled with less money to stay in Portland. Guess I should go out and look for references to that story. But, I've got some things I HAVE to do today .....

by TwoDeep on Jan 20, 2008 11:03 AM PST up reply actions

here is what I found

it is from wikipedia, but it is cited, albeit with a dead link.

Przy contract

Looks like the Blazers had the biggest offer going, but he deserved more money to stay when the going was more than rough.

by jonestr on Jan 20, 2008 1:44 PM PST up reply actions

Good find ....

I stand corrected jonestr. Oh, the tricks old memory cells can play on you .....

by TwoDeep on Jan 21, 2008 9:37 AM PST up reply actions

I don't think Joel is overpaid when you consider..

I scanned through all the starting centers in the NBA and I would honestly rate Joel at about the 15th or 16th best center there is out there. So he is in the middle of the pack. I figure the best centers make max money (12-15 mil a year) Joel is 1/2 as good, but gets paid 1/3 the price. Sounds like a decent investment to me.
If we hadn't paid up to keep Joel, he would have bolted to one of the more elite teams. Do we want to help bolster our Western Conference competition?
As mentioned above, our first unit is doing pretty good, but our second unit has an advantage over most other benches. When Oden comes into the lineup, our second unit gets even better. If Oden is in foul trouble, we have a starting quality center to replace him. Not a bad problem to have.
Had we not signed Joel, we would have probably had to resign Jamaal Magloire. So would you rather have Jamaal, Joel, or Raef starting for us? (Plus, Raef can't even crack the rotation)

Joel has some faults. It would be nice for him to bulk up some, and give us some more offensive production. He is no Chris Dudley though.
Joel is not a turnover machine like Jarrett Jack and Sergio Rodriguez is. Joel has improved his free throw shooting considerably. He has also gotten pretty good at drawing offensive charges. He is capable of getting a few blocks a game, and can get you 8-12 rebounds on any given night.

I think we made a pretty reasonable deal to keep Joel at the $5 Mil/year mark.

I'm hip, I'm slick, and all the women want my phone number!

by silkybrown on Jan 20, 2008 1:44 AM PST reply actions

Joel

Joel is priced fairly well compared to other centers in the league. I think he may be a bargain to tell u the truth. The reason he is overpaid compared to the team is most of the team are still on their rookie contracts and hes a vet.

by Philthyanimal on Jan 20, 2008 3:11 AM PST reply actions

This from the Oregonian

and posted on the O Live site (referring to Pryzybilla of course):

McMillan's take: " He leads our (charting) board in charges, contested shots and blocked shots. I liked him last year, and this year even more so. He has stepped into the starting role and has controlled the paint."

Nice to see that Nate actually does appreciate Pryz but it begs the question: "then why doesn't he play him at least half of each game?"

by TwoDeep on Jan 20, 2008 8:46 AM PST reply actions

I thought the same thing!!

I was thinking okay, so that must mean in there are places in the game--like the 4th quarter--when drawn charges, contested shots, and blocked shots (read: "defense") aren't very important!

by Fizbin on Jan 20, 2008 10:46 AM PST up reply actions

Actually, you're right.

I think our general game plan is to stay close through the first three quarters playing consistent, conservative defense.

We then saddle up and ride our offense in the 4th quarter. With Trout, LMA or Frye in the power spot, the opposing big man can't trap without leaving a scorer open. That's what keeps the lane open enough for Roy.

Keeping the opposing defense spread and honest in the 4th quarter is more important to us than charges, contested or blocked shots.

by webted on Jan 20, 2008 10:56 AM PST up reply actions

Thank you Ted

I made this argument a couple of months ago when people were wondering why Joel wasn't playing in the fourth quarter.

Maybe you made it more eloquently than I, because I got raked over the coals for it.

Maybe it was because I went too far and said when Joel is in the game in the fourth quarter/crunch time it is like playing 4 on 5 on offense. What I was trying to say was what you just said.

Thank you.

Although I went into great detail about what I meant by that, I don't think people could get past the "4 on 5" part of the post.

by tssbro on Jan 20, 2008 8:39 PM PST up reply actions

nate

nate is just confusing sometimes. he'll say one thing in an interview but would contradict himself. when jack had his slump as a starter...i remember him saying that no one is the starter and the players will have to earn it with their play...and it just made no sense why blake wasnt starting at the time and why sergio wasnt getting more minutes.

by Philthyanimal on Jan 20, 2008 11:33 AM PST up reply actions

I like Pryzbilla

For what he brings to this team, defense, rebounding, toughness and a good teammate, I do not think we are overpaying him.

You also may count me among the many that sometimes thinks McMillan should play him more. Pryzbilla is an agressive player and imo those type of players must be allowed to establish their games. Pryzbilla is the type of player I would let play until he fouls out, rather than sitting him with two, three fouls only to never enter the game again.

Is he the "perfect" big man. Of course not, or we would of drafted Durant instead of Oden. Is Pryzbilla a good defender and rebounder, Yes, and that's a valuable commodity. Behind the scenes I don't know what type of communicator or mentor he can or could be, but I'd hope he instills some of his toughness into Oden, I look forward to the two of them working together as a unit on the court and off the court.

"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"

by Krang on Jan 20, 2008 9:03 AM PST reply actions

Enjoy Joel for the first half.

That is how long he would play if you played him until he fouled out.

You can't do the same thing for four quarters of an NBA game and expect to win. Two reasons:

1. What works in the first quarter, doesn't work in the fourth.
Weaknesses are magnified and exploited in the fourth quarter. Joel ineffective offensive game keeps him out of the fourth quarter.

2. There are 45 assistant coaches on NBA benches. (that might be a bit of an exaggeration) They figure out what you are doing and make adjustments. The Blazers have a number of different looks they give teams throughout the course of a game. Joel isn't a part of some of these looks. He has strong aspects to his game but he isn't as versatile as other players who can do multiple things well. These are the players who make it hard for the coach to take them out of the game.

by tssbro on Jan 20, 2008 8:48 PM PST up reply actions

Joel would be part...

...of a rotation, as he is now. Just I would give him more time.

And I actually disagree. Joels agressive physical game needs to be established. I think if he is allowed to play more, as the game progresses he less likely to get whistled for some of the questionable calls he often gets early in a game.

I also would define Joels offensive game as "limited" not ineffective. Joel isn't an offensive centerpiece, he isn't asked to be, or expected to be. You could site a desire to play Channing Frye more in the 4th quarter, but the offense is rarely run through Channing in a tight game during the 4th. Usually that's Brandon, Jones, and Outlaw.

I'm not arguing that Channing hasn't earned time, I wouldn't argue that Aldridge is a more important piece of our future and deserves plenty of minutes. I just think there have been some times when it seems we are being beaten in the paint and struggling to rebound while simultaneously Joel has sat unused on the bench. You are correct to say Joel might not be as versatile as Channing or Aldridge, Joels a specialist, rebounding and interior defense. Sometimes a specialist is exactly what is needed.

"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"

by Krang on Jan 21, 2008 10:06 AM PST up reply actions

Outlaw

Travis is usually who is playing PF in the fourth. Outlaw, Aldridge, and Jones play in the front court for the majority of the fourth quarter minutes. It is hard to argue for not having them in there down the stretch.

Joel would be useful in some games and limited is probably more accurate than ineffective because he can set screens and find open lanes to get to the basket... but in crunch time, open lanes are more difficult to find and a screen from a guy who can't hit the 15 ft jumper allows the defense to help on the man driving the lane. Thus LMA and even Frye fill this role even if they aren't as good at setting the pick.

In any case, it is pick your poison at this point and Nate chooses offense with Outlaw and Frye over Joel's picks and rebounding. It is hard to argue with his choice when it has been more successful than not so far.

By the way, when I wrote that earlier post I was trying to be funny. When I reread it, it sounded dismissive of your opinion. I didn't mean it that way.

by tssbro on Jan 22, 2008 9:18 PM PST up reply actions

No problem...

...just discussing. Wasn't offended. If you are a Blazer fan pretty hard to be too upset about anything right now.

"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"

by Krang on Jan 22, 2008 10:30 PM PST up reply actions

I think Joel

will be invaluable to GO in terms of practice and especially in games as a backup. Fact of the matter is we would be stuck in the 5-6 playoff range for a few years if not for lucking into Oden. Przy isn't going to give you high caliber minutes, and that is fine. But I can see how people would take umbrage and get frustrated by his shortcomings.

All that said, let's just be happy we have a great team and chemistry. Przy calling Martell Marty in that NBA.com clip is awesome. I think all is well in Blazerland. What a place to live.

Hate the game, not the player.

by Rodendridge on Jan 20, 2008 10:47 AM PST reply actions

I like Joel.

He has a tough, working class game. He makes our defense better.

The other teams competing for his services were Detroit and San Antonio. Of course, both of those franchises are decidedly mediocre judges of talent with a marginal record assembling competitive teams...

Frankly, I don't care what he's paid. His salary isn't keeping this team from getting better. His salary is Paul Allen's problem, not mine.

But, like I say, some folks aren't happy unless they're unhappy.

by webted on Jan 20, 2008 10:48 AM PST reply actions

No Love for Joel on The Team

No one would even give him a hight five. They were all too busy hugging each other.

http://blog.oregonlive.com/blazers/2008/01/team2.jpg

Our blog administrator could beat up your blog administrator.

by tominhawaii on Jan 20, 2008 2:18 PM PST reply actions

Damn it Tom

I looked and laughed before I realized it was you who posted that picture.

Nicely done.

by tssbro on Jan 20, 2008 8:50 PM PST up reply actions

Oh snap

I had a typo again. I hate that.

Our blog administrator could beat up your blog administrator.

by tominhawaii on Jan 20, 2008 11:15 PM PST up reply actions

I'll play devil's advocate

He is the worst offensive player on our team, cannot finish as well as he should, drops a lot of passes, and gets into foul trouble when he plays against a more physical player. Outside of the occasional pick, he is almost worthless on offense. That said, I was in favor of resigning him, and because I consider him a backup, I'm satisfied, if not ecstatic, with what he brings to this team.

by OregonDuckworth on Jan 20, 2008 2:43 PM PST reply actions

Here are some other comparisons

Using sportsline.com atats 1/19/08, there are 21 players, primarily at center, beyond their rookie contract who have comparable roles. Of the 21 (see below) there are 8 players (Perkins, Foster, Mohammed, Haywood, Dampier, Milicic, Wilcox, and Moore) who have comparable or slightly better stats. Of these 8, only 1 (Perkins) is below $5.0M and that performance is also a function of his surrounding cast. That leaves 13 who are not performing to Joel's level and are mostly paid the same or greater salary than Joel.

There is no doubt in my mind that Joel is worth his salary. He is not a starting center on a championship contender but maybe the best backup center in the league.

Jerome James $5.8M 4 points, 1 rebound, 0 blocks, totals for the year!

Kendrick Perkins $4.5M, 6.8 points, 5.7 rebounds, 1.2 blocks, 1.0 assists, .5 steals per game

Jason Collins $6.1M, 1.4 points, 2.2 rebounds, 0.2 blocks, 0.5 assists, 0.3 steals per game

Jamaal Magloire $4.0M, 1.9 points, 3.6 rebounds, 0.4 blocks, 0.3 assists, 0 steals per game

Rasho Nesterovic $7.8M, 4.4 points, 4.1 rebounds, 0.6 blocks, 0.9 assists, 0.3 steals per game

Primoz Brezec $2.8M, 1.7 points, 1.8 rebounds, 0.1 blocks, 0.3 assists, 0.1 steals per game

Jeff Foster $5.7M, 5.8 points, 8.3 rebounds, 0.2 blocks, 1.5 assists, 0.6 steals per game

Dan Gadzuric, $5.7M, 2.9 points, 2.6 rebounds, 0.5 blocks, 0.3 assists, 0.3 steals per game

Lorenzen Wright $3.2M, 0.9 points, 3.3 rebounds, 0.3 blocks, 0.3 assists, 0.2 steals per game

Nazr Mohammed $5.6M, 7.1 points, 5.9 rebounds, 0.6 blocks, 0.7 assists, 0.5 steals per game

Mark Blount $6.7M, 5.4 points, 2.6 rebounds, 0.1 blocks, 0.4 assists, 0.2 steals per game

Brendan Haywood $5.0M, 10.4 points, 7.8 rebounds, 1.7 blocks, 0.7 assists, 0.5 steals per game

Erick Dampier $8.6M, 5.5 points, 6.7 rebounds, 1.6 blocks, 0.8 assists, 0.4 steals per game

Dikembe Mutombo $1.2M, 0.5 points, 2.5 rebounds, 0.2 blocks, 0.1 assists, 0.2 steals per game

Darko Milicic $6.5M, 6.2 points, 4.5 rebounds, 1.0 blocks, 0.3 assists, 0.1 steals per game

Francisco Elson $3.0M, 4.0 points, 4.0 rebounds, 0.4 blocks, 0.5 assists, 0.2 steals per game

Michael Doleac $3.1M, 2.8 points, 2.0 rebounds, 0.7 blocks, 0.4 assists, 0.4 steals per game

Joel Przybilla $5.8M, 4.9 points, 7.3 rebounds, 1.1 blocks, 0.3 assists, 0.2 steals per game

Chris Wilcox $6.5M, 12.9 points, 7.1 rebounds, 0.5 blocks, 0.9 assists, 0.8 steals per game

Jarron Collins $2.4M, 2.1 points, 1.9 rebounds, 0.1 blocks, 0.7 assists, 0.2 steals per game

Kwame Brown $9.1M, 5.3 points, 5.1 rebounds, 0.8 blocks, 1.1 assists, 0.8 steals per game

Mikki Moore $5.4M, 8.2 points, 6.0 rebounds, 0.5 blocks, 0.7 assists, 0.5 steals per game

by lee3022 on Jan 20, 2008 3:53 PM PST reply actions

Thanks

for doing the leg work.

I think this conversation has been had before. Joel is not overpaid, not all the things he does are on the stat sheet. He IS backup but still better than other starters out there. He fits the chemistry of the team. Oden is coming in next year and Joel is a great talent to replace him with the second unit (i forgot who was what color so I'm just going to call them the purple unit).

"No way. I love this town. We're gonna bring back the glory years. These boys are my boys. This is my team and my town." - Greg Oden when asked about leaving.

by ratbastird on Jan 20, 2008 4:47 PM PST up reply actions

Thank you very much lee3022...

your post is the best compilation of proof of just how lucky we are to have Joel. He is a class guy, he fits perfectly with the team, and he is one of the best deals on this list.

OK, I'll buy the argument that he doesn't fit into the current game plan for the 4th quarter. Then lets just make sure that we are getting as much from him as possible in the first 3 quarters, OK?

So what if he gets into foul trouble, he has 6 just like everyone else, use them all if that what it takes.

"We just took the Jazz out behind the woodshed and tanned them twice for every single thing they've ever done wrong. " - Dave

by LaMarvelous on Jan 20, 2008 9:03 PM PST up reply actions

Worth every penny

You can never have enough bruisers that will sacrifice their bodies and their careers to give you a "W".

He'll be a great mentor to GO and an effective backup. As lee3022 stated, he is the best backup center in the league.

I have no doubt about that and therefore no issue with his contract.

Re-sign, unless it prevents a major player from coming in '09.

"Life is a meaningless sequence of events in between Blazer championships"

by broggerboy19 on Jan 20, 2008 7:50 PM PST reply actions

good backup centers

can be very valuable -- and that will be joel's place. even if he ends up spending a lot of time at the end of the bench, he'll be an important part of the team.

ignacio

by ignacio on Jan 20, 2008 9:22 PM PST reply actions