Mac-10: Sergio Is OUT Of The Rotation Right Now

by damir on Sep 28, 2007 10:55 AM PDT

And that led to another surprising comment from McMillan. Early in our conversation, McMillan talked about wanting to use a 9-man playing rotation this season. That led me to ask about Rodriguez, a player who fans, and general manager Kevin Pritchard, love.

"He's out (of the rotation),'' McMillan said of Rodriguez. "Right now, he is. He's going to have to play his way in, and that's going to be hard to do unless Blake or Jack just dog it, which I don't think will happen.''

Quickster!

Ouch.

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the 9

So... I think for now the 9 guys in the 9-man rotation would be:

Blake, Jack
Roy, Webster
Outlaw, Jones
Aldridge, Frye
Pryzbilla

by Morchella on Sep 28, 2007 11:00 AM PDT reply actions

McMillan also said

that Taurean Green will win us 3 or 4 games this year. I'd say he's in the rotation.

According to Quick.

by ranma on Sep 28, 2007 11:07 AM PDT reply actions

That doesn't fit the 9-man rotation

The ones who are definitely in the rotation:

Blake
Jack
Roy
Outlaw
Jones
Aldridge
Frye

...and are probably in the rotation...
Webster
Przybilla

That's 9 right there. Unless you figure Green beats out Webster or Przybilla, he will have to win those 3-4 games in very limited minutes in limited games.

by jamon51 on Sep 28, 2007 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions

I suspect that only two

out of the Outlaw/Webster/Jones trio might end up in Nate's initial rotation.

by timg56 on Sep 28, 2007 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions

Indeed

This is not surprising. I don't see how anybody could see Sergio in the rotation on paper to start the season. That's different than saying he should never be there, but if you look at a 9-10 man rotation there are only two point guards in that group and those almost have to be Jack and Blake.

--Dave

by Dave on Sep 28, 2007 11:36 AM PDT reply actions

Injury

LaFrentz, Green, & Rodriguez are insurance. And mighty good insurance if you ask me. I don't mind having any of those guys playing significant minutes (except for the fact that better players are injured).

by jamon51 on Sep 28, 2007 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions

stunning

not the Serg part but the Taurean Green part. Are you telling me Green is going to get the call alongside Roy over Jack and Blake?? If so, Mac is nuts. Taurean Green is an ok player but plenty of non-NBA PGs could have had success alongside 3 lottery picks at Florida. I just can't imagine a scenario where I would say to myself... "ok, crunch time, time to sit Blake and bring in Green."

by jksnake99 on Sep 28, 2007 11:44 AM PDT reply actions

He was over-shadowed...

At Florida but he's a pretty good player. He did lead the team in points per game and assists...

It'll be interesting to see how he performs without "the Big 3" he had at Florida.

Is this a deep Blazers roster, or am I just in love with each of the players from top-to-bottom? Sergio isn't in our rotation. McRoberts most likely isn't either. We've got a 15 man roster and with two spots dedicated to Miles and Oden, that means at least 4 guys are trying to dodge the "Kiss Me" cam at away games...

by Champs2009 on Sep 28, 2007 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions

I keep telling you people...

Green is going to be playing off guard alongside a taller PG.

by ken @ Blazer's Edge on Sep 28, 2007 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions

Some of the things McMillan said about why

he likes Green is his ball-handling, the way he runs the pick and roll and his shooting. There's no need for Green to be playing 2 guard, he can bring the ball up. The other team can't dare him to shoot, but that's good from both guard positions.

by ranma on Sep 28, 2007 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions

It might just be me...

...but I think Green at the 1 and Roy at the 2 could become a stinkin' LETHAL crunch-time tandem. Get Green some PT with Roy and against real competition this year and watch out.

by rockingharder on Sep 28, 2007 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions

That's all true...

but the fact remains that both Roy and Jack are most effective with the ball in their hands. Green is effective off the ball.

They'd obviously switch up on defense.

by ken @ Blazer's Edge on Sep 29, 2007 7:05 AM PDT up reply actions

This bothers me

And I don't think it's just because I like Sergio. You just don't see coaches going into the season saying one of their players is out of the rotation. They say things like, "Player X has to come in and compete", or "We have a lot of competition at that position." They make statements that you could interpret to mean that the player is probably not going to be in the rotation, but they don't come out and explicitly state that the player is out.

It seems to me like this about a player on your team is a bad idea. I think if he had said this about Outlaw or Jack or anyone else on the team who had been a rotation player last year, I would feel the same way. Publicly, you go into camp giving everyone a shot. Maybe you have your biases or predictions on who will win, but you don't go telling everyone about them. How is that player not supposed to come in demoralized if you just told the team's beat reporter that he's out of the rotation but some unproven rookie is going to win you 3 or 4 games?

by HarryManback on Sep 28, 2007 12:09 PM PDT reply actions

Doesn't bother me at all

It's been my experience that working for a boss that is right up front with what he thinks and that you always know where you stand with, is preferable to one that says nice things but doesn't believe them.

by timg56 on Sep 28, 2007 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions

big difference

yes, but there is a big difference between Nate telling this to Sergio, and Nate telling this to a reporter. wether he has already had this conversation with Sergio privately or not isn't known to us, but if he didn't, then this was some seriously disrespectful stuff on Nate's part.

by sergioFTW on Sep 28, 2007 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions

You have a point...

..and instinctually I tend to agree. Nate should of kept such commentary to himself and his coaching staff.

But how big a deal is it? Even if Nate stretches to a 9 man rotation, I'm assuming 4 of those 9 men weren't going to be PG's. So just do the math. Technically Blake, Jack, Sergio and Green...You have your starter, your primary back-up and then scrub minutes, are 3rd, and 4th PG options part of the rotation? Were talking about the battle for 3rd spot.

We brought Blake in, Jack is liked by McMillan, minutes for Sergio were always going to be hard fought.

It doesn't bode well for Sergio, but it shouldn't tell him anything he shouldn't of already known, he's got lots of competition and it's an uphill battle.

"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"

by Krang on Sep 28, 2007 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions

It apprears

that Nate is reaching the exact audience he needs to reach. It is we, the fans, who can screw this up with Sergio. It is our undeserved demands for playing time for Sergio that will cause Sergio to listen to his posse and not to Coach. So laying it out at the beginning lowers expectations and allows Sergio some room to grow. Name one High School PG who could play in the NBA his 1st three years? Sergio is only in year two. Remember when all the fanfare of Telfair and Wright (Miami) and Livingston (LAC) drafted in the same year out of HS? How many produced right away? Sergio was a lower 1st round pick and if the guys at the top are not ready then why do we expect PT for Sergio? Anyone watching Spain in the EuroBasket2007 got to see what the coach who knows he nearly as well as Coach Nate thinks. Sergio was just not ready yet. He might still be eating the cheese (Coach Parcells' expression for reading your own press clippings). Sergio gets to go against good experienced PGs in practice. He gets to be coached by an outstanding PG. His GM was a great PG in college. Ok - I'll stop.

by lee3022 on Sep 28, 2007 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions

Could it mean small ball?

1.Green, 2.Blake/Jack, 3.Roy, 4.Outlaw/Frye and 5.LMA/Frye on the floor as a regular change up or second group?

by ojala on Sep 28, 2007 12:12 PM PDT reply actions

Interpretation

I read the Quick article and I read the following about Nate's commments: Green is a clutch player (much like Roy) and will win 3-4 games due to that ability (icing 3's at the end of games). I don't think Green will be a roation player per se, rather he will come in as a situation player at the end of games when a clutch shooter is needed. Green should provide some relief to Roy and that will make Roys job easier. Having one clutch player will win some games, but having two clutch players will make us nearly unstoppable in close games.

As for Sergio, what wasn't said by Nate (and that I inferred) was that Sergio better be upping his defensive effort or he won't be getting much burn.

I didn't take that anything that Nate said was harsh, unless you assume that NAte hasn't been working with the players and helping them in their development. We all realize that Nate has been seeing his player for the last several weeks except for Sergio play together. There has got to fairly open comunication with this club and nothing in the Quick report should be a suprise to anyone on the team just to us outsiders (i.e. fans).

by NWfan on Sep 28, 2007 12:31 PM PDT reply actions

nice

a very good assessment!

"Besides, I met a girl who loves basketball, blazers, and spurs. I'm sorry, you really can't dampen my mood right now :)" -ratbastird(after oden's surgery)

by nateinaloha on Sep 28, 2007 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions

When

Will we see a return on Paul Allen's investment in Sergio Rodriguez?

And if we do not, when will people admit that KP made a mistake?

Bricken fracken, dag nabbit, hootinany, flrarfenal, barfuglesnaps!

by tominhawaii on Sep 28, 2007 12:59 PM PDT reply actions

Who we don't play

will be traded around the 2009-10 season. There is no way the blazers will keep 4-5 point guards. The best part is we know we will be keeping the cream of the crop from the pool of Blake , Jack , sergio Green and Koonnen. Whoever goes should bring back a good/solid return. WE won;t just have cap space but also coveted trade assets. It's hard not to have a man-crush on Pritchard.

by NWfan on Sep 28, 2007 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions

Unless...

...Sergio's real function to the blazers has always been to convince his buddy Rudy Fernandez to become a Blazer.

by moldorf on Sep 28, 2007 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions

According to Canzano

it was Allen, not KP, who was responsible for getting Sergio:

Oregonian, Jan. 24, 2007. "... Last June in the Trail Blazers draft room, the franchise found itself with a decision to make. Point guard Sergio Rodriguez... was available, and Portland, which had the No. 30 pick, wanted him.

Phoenix, on the clock and picking No. 27, offered to sell their pick to Portland for $3 million. Rodriguez might, or might not, be there three picks later. And so every person in the Blazers draft room was asked to cast a vote on whether the franchise, busy all summer crowing about fiscal responsibility, should spend the money to get him.

One by one, the scouts and team executives said, "No," and "No," and "No," and "No," and this included the votes of acting general manager Steve Patterson and player personnel director Kevin Pritchard. And then, it was owner Paul Allen's turn.

Said Allen: "Buy the pick."

You're going to hear a lot of talk in the next few years about how Pritchard and Blazers scout John Gabriel loved Rodriguez's upside, but the point guard might have ended up somewhere else had Allen, occasional acting scout and GM, not loved Rodriguez's game even more."

So it's on PA's head, not Pritchard's.

"The art of being wise is the art of knowing what to overlook" - William James

by jorga on Sep 28, 2007 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions

Ha

I would rather blame KP given that the source is Canzano. I really miss Fatty. Someone should write a poem about him.

Bricken fracken, dag nabbit, hootinany, flrarfenal, barfuglesnaps!

by tominhawaii on Sep 28, 2007 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions

Nice work Jorga.

by TwoDeep on Sep 28, 2007 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions

for U Hawaii 5-0

Fatty, Big Daddy on the BE
Man o' international renown
Postin' from his own thrown
Tellin' us what we couldn't see

Book It!
Yeah, Book It!
This ain't no hook slit
Yeah, Book It! Don't look at it
I'm tellin' ya, just, take it to the bank!

Fatty's predictin' from his den
At the rate of LMA's heart beat
With insight above men on the street
Filled with many attractive women

Book It!
Yeah, Book It!
This ain't no hook slit
Yeah, Book It! Don't look at it
I'm tellin' ya, just, take it to the bank!

Sports talking at the bar with Profs
Fatty's the man from NY City
For the Goofs, there's no pity
He's thousands of comments, to get off

Book It!
Yeah, Book It!
This ain't no hook slit
Yeah, Book It! Don't look at it
I'm tellin' ya, just, take it to the bank!

"Oooohmm Baba Dunk Ramm GOden . Change your perspective, DO IT, naturally or w/help, you are left to your own devices for obtaining this state of mind."

by BlueBooYay on Sep 28, 2007 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions

Mahalo BlueBooYay

I was wondering why I felt like there were a lot fewer comments since the Surgery-That-Must-Not-Be-Named. At first I thought it was because of da kine. Then I realized Fatty was good for a comment on almost every post and each Fatty comment generated a good number of responses. I think I am going to do a sports blog impact study on Fatty.

Thanks again BlueBooYay that poem is wicked Smurf!

Bricken fracken, dag nabbit, hootinany, flrarfenal, barfuglesnaps!

by tominhawaii on Sep 28, 2007 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions

Ode to the "Return O' Fatty"...

...Gots some time to work on this...

...to do it justice.

"Oooohmm Baba Dunk Ramm GOden . Change your perspective, DO IT, naturally or w/help, you are left to your own devices for obtaining this state of mind."

by BlueBooYay on Sep 28, 2007 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions

Trade Sergio

I'll be the first to say it. If he isn't going to be getting any burn then it is useless to have him on the team, and i bet we could get something decent for him. he will shine in this league, i'd bet the farm, but it appears it isn't going to be on this team. if we're going to make the mistake of burying him and then trading him, i'd prefer we do it sooner than later and get the misery out of the way.

by sergioFTW on Sep 28, 2007 1:17 PM PDT reply actions

He'll get his shot

this year as long as he works and keeps his head up. I think there's always been an underlying question surrounding Sergio: is he going to put the effort in and learn what it takes to be a great part of a great team or is he just content to go out there and be Sergio? If he has the talent and he's willing to work at it as much as anybody else I guarantee you he will get a chance to prove it this year. He just needs to be ready to seize the opportunity when it comes.

--Dave

by Dave on Sep 28, 2007 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions

Forgot to mention

that the reason I posed that question is because I agree with one of the above comments that this is EXACTLY the message Nate is sending to him. he has more established people in front of him. If he works and learns he might well be able to leapfrog them. But it's not going to be handed to him because the team is not going to bend around his talent. He has to shape himself to the team instead.

--Dave

by Dave on Sep 28, 2007 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions

Heh

What a stark contrast from year's past, no?

ROTUNDITYDOTNET

by damir on Sep 28, 2007 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions

thanks Dave

for centering my feelings about this. truth is, i'm so hopeful for Sergio that when i hear news like this i just go straight to the opposite extreme. i agree with you, that if he really puts in all the work and brings it to the court, Nate's proclamation won't stand in the way of him proving himself. until i see otherwise (and i feel like that still might be a possibility) i have to assume that nothing artificial is keeping him from getting his due.

that said, i still question the way Nate dealt with this, i'm all for motivating players, but to tell Sergio he will be playing less than Green before training camp even starts, considering Sergio was getting 13 minutes per game in the NBA last year and Green has yet to play a single game, that's just not the right thing to do. I don't see much respect there and I'm sure Sergio won't either. I sure hope Sergio takes this as a challenge and doesn't take it like Jack would and pout his way through the season.

by sergioFTW on Sep 28, 2007 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions

I think I agree with your assessment

that Sergio is probably not on Nate's favorite player list right now. In that sense, yes, he does have a hurdle to overcome...maybe a bigger one than some other guys. However I think two points are relevant. Or put another way I think there are two questions Sergio (and to some extent the rest of us) have to ask:

Why is Sergio not an instant Nate favorite? I think we can rule out irrationality. It probably has to do with Nate liking dependable point guards and guys who can play defense. If I'm Sergio, then, I say to myself, "OK...I'm going to put all kinds of effort into helping coach trust me and show him all-out effort on defense. If I'm not getting it, I'm going to ask. If he's not telling me, I'm going to bug him. I want to show that I can do this."
Even if this is a slight or unfair, how is Sergio going to respond to it? If this is the worst obstacle he has to face in his NBA career he will be really lucky. Injuries, determined opponents, competing players on your own team, wacked-out referees, just plain bad luck...all of these are worse than what Nate is putting on his plate. If he can't overcome this situation then he's not going to make it in the NBA no matter how talented he might be (or become). If there is something in your way, come out fighting. Come out working harder. Come out with fire in your eyes determined to prove yourself. THAT will impress the coach and put an end to the whole thing. If Sergio throws up his hands and gives up here in the face of something like this I don't see much hope of him succeeding anywhere in the NBA. If he comes through it he will be a better, more proven player for the experience and it will all be to the good.

It's interesting to me that Jarrett Jack, for different reasons, faces the same kind of questions this year and we'll be looking for the same kind of response. This will be a year of testing for everybody.

--Dave

by Dave on Sep 28, 2007 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions

Testing the players

Exactly what I was thing Dave. I recall that Pritchard made a comment about wanting to have competition at every position. I think this is Nate's way of stoking that competitive spirit from the players. Blake was brought in just to give some competion to Jack (because nobody else would be pushing him). And I believe the culture now is for every player to be pushed by other players on the team fighting for minutes. Rather than the old culture of letting players develope regardless of earning it(ie the Telfair approach). Those who suceed in this environment are keepers, those who don't will be trade bait down the road.

by NWfan on Sep 28, 2007 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions

Sergio has to prove...

that he's not Sebastian Telfair, part deux.

Ignoring the off-court stuff, their games are in many ways more alike than you think. Sergio is probably a better passer than Bassy, though not as good of a finisher. Both are famously sloppy with the ball. Neither can guard your grandmother. And both developed their reputations in non-NBA competition, and have had trouble in the NBA.

Difference is--there is hope for Sergio. For one thing, he's still here. For another, he's got some hurdles to overcome WRT language and such. For a third, I haven't heard Sergio exhibiting any unfortunate off-court tendencies. And for a fourth--unlike Telfair, who was annointed the franchise's savior based on a quarter-season of work his rookie year--Rodriguez won't get anything handed to him.

Although he may not like it, perhaps some time in the Idaho Stampede would do him good. :)

by EngineerScotty on Sep 28, 2007 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions

there is no hope for sergio

until he stops smoking cigarettes.book it!

Bricken fracken, dag nabbit, hootinany, flrarfenal, barfuglesnaps!

by tominhawaii on Sep 28, 2007 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions

sergio is sloppy with the ball?

are you kidding me?

by sergioFTW on Sep 28, 2007 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions

Ugh Yes?

1.15TOPG in 13mpg is not a good ratio.

ROTUNDITYDOTNET

by damir on Sep 28, 2007 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions

steve nash

in 2007 averaged .106 turnovers a minute, which at 13 minutes would be 1.39 in 13 minutes. just saying. you know i had to do it.

by sergioFTW on Sep 28, 2007 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions

Heh

When Sergio becomes a two-time MVP, leads his team to several conference finals, and leads the league in assists, then we can talk.

Until then, Sergio doesn't make his team better when he is on the floor.

ROTUNDITYDOTNET

by damir on Sep 28, 2007 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions

weird logic

sergio IS NOT steve nash, THEREFORE
sergio DOES NOT make his team better.

can't argue with that.

by sergioFTW on Sep 29, 2007 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions

The first?

sergioFTW,

you defended sergio's potential with the TrailBlazers like a hen to an egg when we debated kopponen vs. sergio over a month ago.

back then i was SCREAMING to trade Sergio, the sooner the better, for his best interests and ours. I also stated that Jack would be on the trading block by the summer of '09.

now that Nate's public statement affirms my opinions of sergio you're gonna flop and claim you thought to trade him first?

I broke the yolk on this baby (at least on this site) a long time back, and even more credit should go to Dave for his spot-on assessment of Sergio's place in the expectations segments.

he'll get some chances, and he'll shine from time to time, but the bottom line: Nate doesn't like him for our team, and neither should you.

Why? Because YOU DO NOT WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS WITH POINT GUARDS THAT ARE ERRATIC, CAN'T SHOOT, OR DEFEND. PERIOD.

Yeah, he could improve. But if you know Bball, you would know that his tendencies are extremely difficult to correct and that most players never break the bad habits we have witnessed thus far.

And now, some unimaginative, meaningless statistics from our resident Hollinger-wannabes...what was that assist-to-turnover ratio again? I forgot.

by broggerboy19 on Sep 29, 2007 2:42 AM PDT up reply actions

wow

you need to relax, my friend. i'd hardly say i'm a hollinger wannabe for pointing out, over and over again, that sergio has a very good assist to turnover ration, which i only do when people say things like 'i want assists, not turnovers.' you'll note i never defend his defense or his shooting, etc. because those are valid criticisms. it's only when the myth of 'crazy sergio' starts going that i feel like it have to intervene.

as for me being first to say that we should trade him, i meant in this post, not ever in the history of Blazersedge--i'm very aware that many many people have said this well before me and you.

we obviously do not agree on his potential, and i'm ok with that--you won't see me being a jerk to other people on this board because of difference of opinion.

by sergioFTW on Sep 29, 2007 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions

cool that you've got Serg's back.

What I can't stand is the lack of effort on defense. It seems as if Sergio is athletic enough to slow perimeter threats down a bit, but it was painful watching him stand flat footed in Summer League and consistently getting abused by guys who will be out of the NBA in a few weeks. To to assist won't matter to Nate until he starts breaking a sweat on the other end of the court.

by ojala on Oct 1, 2007 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions

I'm more like JKsnake.

I'm stunned regarding his comments about Green.

I wonder though. Nate did say they are fielding calls inquiring about our point guards. Could he be building up Green to put us in a position to get more in return for him? That makes more sense to me than the face value of his announcement - with Blake and Jack listening - that Green and Roy would be a good tandem at the end of games.

by TwoDeep on Sep 28, 2007 1:51 PM PDT reply actions

Fiba Performance an issue?

Do you think it might be due to the poor showing that he had at the FIBA Europe Tourney. From what I had read, he pretty much was a sub par performer against Non-NBA players.

It would be hard to justify Sergio's playing time if he couldn't even compete at a lower level.

I think McMillan hit it on the head about defense and team management. If this squad only ran up and down the court, catching lobs and trick passes, Sergio would be starting.

I don't want to say that Sergio is not a good player. I enjoyed seeing 10 assist games and highlight type passes. But the last guy that really had those sort of skills, we ended up trading him away for...BRoy.

Give Sergio another year or so, he might achieve the level of Jason Williams, but I don't think it will be with this team.

Was Damon really a bad Blazer, or did he get the short end of the stick?

by rpxxxiv on Sep 28, 2007 2:17 PM PDT reply actions

I think Sergio

has better future prospects than Telfair did though. Sebastian always struck me as the kind of guy who wasn't going to listen to anyone. He was just going to play his own way no matter what. Sergio just seems a little lost to me sometimes. I mean often he's brilliant. But when he's not being brilliant he looks like an unsure puppy who just got out in the yard. I think the coaches can work with that easier than they could have worked with Bassy's attitude. He just needs some education (provided he's willing to take it) not a major attitude overhaul.

--Dave

by Dave on Sep 28, 2007 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions

WOW! THAT STIRRED THE SIDESHOW!!!

What a great comment to get things stirred up!
I have one thought that keeps creeping in when ever I think of Sergio:

Anyone remember Billy Ray Bates?

by jameyemail on Sep 28, 2007 5:15 PM PDT reply actions

Yeah, I remember Billy Ray

A young, beautiful, wide-eyed kid, with great athletic ability. It was fun to watch him play. He had some great moments. Wore a hand band on the "Head Band Team". Spectacular drives and slam-dunks.

Team ballin', challenged. His spectacular play and abilities never blended into the team. Is that what your referencing?

Something happened to him, I can't remember what it was.

"Oooohmm Baba Dunk Ramm GOden . Change your perspective, DO IT, naturally or w/help, you are left to your own devices for obtaining this state of mind."

by BlueBooYay on Sep 28, 2007 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions

awwww......billy...

exactly my reference. Signs of greatness...individually a perfect athlete. As a team player? He just couldnt quite get it (wow.....just reminded me of another current young player on our team).
Offensive talent is abundant in the NBA...CBA....FIBA.....NCAA. Defensive and team oriented players (who let their defensive abilities open their offensive game up)are not the norm with these athletes.
Billy Ray Bates......"shoulda....woulda...coulda"

(I think he ended up in the Philipines Playing)

by jameyemail on Sep 28, 2007 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions

billy ray bates

was dumb as a box of rocks. i was good friends then with a sportswriter who did a piece on bates and ended up leaving an awful lot of stuff out. billy ray would drive down the street drunk, with a beer in one hand, honking the horn at any halfway attractive girls he saw, maybe slamming on the brakes and yelling at them: "hey sweet thing! whoa! you know who i am, baby? i'm (expletive deleted) billy ray bates!"

i remember listening to my friend recount this... when just a few days before i had been wondering why jack ramsay didn't start bates instead of jim paxson.

there's no comparison here whatsoever to sergio rodriguez. i doubt they've ever existed in the same universe.

ignacio

by ignacio on Sep 28, 2007 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions

I didn't want to use the word...

...but since it was brought up. Yeah, that was what I thought was the problem.

"Oooohmm Baba Dunk Ramm GOden . Change your perspective, DO IT, naturally or w/help, you are left to your own devices for obtaining this state of mind."

by BlueBooYay on Sep 28, 2007 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions

I'm finding it intresting

that, in the posts above, the huge percentage of reaction is to Nate's comments pertaining to Sergio and not the Taurean Green shocker. Quick though seemed to be more stunned by the Green thing as I think I am and JSnake too. Nate may be simply trying to motivate Sergio (or trying to subdue the fan's great expectations of him), but his comments about Green, with Blake and Jack on board are confounding .... unless there are ulterior motives.

Wow, all these Nate comments are fascinating! They proivides a lot of pizzaz to our offseason doldrums. I'm as surprised as anyone over the opinions he's offered here. Nate simply doesn't reveal himself that much. I have to think there is a motive.

by TwoDeep on Sep 28, 2007 8:00 PM PDT reply actions

Good point

I think the Green thing was lost in the shuffle because the original post was about Sergio. I know after I read the article and comments, then come back in an hour and read the new comments, I only use the diary as my reference to the conversation.

Nate said, "I would say he is the best three-point shooter among the guards," maybe Nate expects to be down a bunch at the end of games and will need Green's firepower. He could be spreading the court too, but why have a rooking in at the end of the game? I cannot fully grasp Nate's comments on Green, they are mind bottling.

Bricken fracken, dag nabbit, hootinany, flrarfenal, barfuglesnaps!

by tominhawaii on Sep 28, 2007 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions

if I recall correctly...

last year we had a rookie in at the end of games which won us a few with clutch play. I think Green has been largely overlooked from our pool of current rookies. Nate is pointing out publicly that Green may have as much as that killer instinct that Roy showed last year in crunch time.

If Green shows good decision making in passing, good shot selection, and menacing (or at least disrupting) defense in practice, then he may very well earn crunch time minutes over Jack and Blake. Those guys will be expected to keep us close until the end when Green comes in and gives and entirely different look at pg which could very well add 3-4 wins as Nate stated.

by NWfan on Sep 29, 2007 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions

Not Really a Surprise

Don't forget, that Nate did give Sergio an opportunity at the end of last season. He played a lot more minutes in some games, and the minutes were more consistent. Sergio simply didn't respond by playing better. He actually looked worse. In reality, I think he was simply tired...long season.

Which doesn't bode well for this year considering Sergio has been playing all summer and TC starts next week.

I think there was a widespread feeling that Blake's signing was something of a negative comment on Jarret Jack. I felt that if it was a comment on a blazer PG it was on Sergio. I don't think any blazer official wanted to enter the season with Sergio as the number 2 PG. Of course the main reason Blake was signed is that both KP and Nate like his game.

So Nate expressing little confidence in Sergio isn't a shock. His gushing about Green is a little surprising. However, remembering Green's tenacity on the defensive end in summer league coupled with nate's focus on defense, the surprise is not that big. With Nash & Parker & Paul & Williams among other playing in the west, portland having a super quick, defensive-minded PG with a good perimeter stroke mught be a good thing indeed.

I'm surprised that people haven't mentioned the other notable thing from Nate's comments. He said he wanted a 9 man rotation. Well when you step through the players obviously in the rotation, it becomes apparent that Martell is joining Sergio on the end of the bench...at least in Nate's mind at this time.

by moldorf on Sep 28, 2007 11:01 PM PDT reply actions

Exactly

I have tried to say this is many diaries. The Blake signing was more of an indictment against Sergio as the second PG than it was about Jack as the first.

I saw what you saw last year as well. Sergio didn't respond well with more minutes possibly as a result of being worn out or of defenses figuring out how to play him or a combo of both. This is why we need to leave the 48PER stats alone and wait for Sergio to truly earn a spot.

I don't think Nate said anything surprising in regards to Sergio. His opportunities to earn his time will come in practice.

by tssbro on Sep 28, 2007 11:45 PM PDT up reply actions

for the record

Sergio's best games last year were also the games in which he played the most minutes (over 20). he also had a few bad games when he played a lot of minutes, but more good ones. my point being that sergio played well on many occasions when getting more than his average of 13 minutes. check my facts here: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/sergio_rodriguez/game_by_game_stats.html

by sergioFTW on Sep 29, 2007 12:15 AM PDT reply actions

Ok

I know you like Sergio and that's fine. No attacks from me.

The only point I would like to make about the stats you bring up is this: when he was being erratic and turning the ball over he was being taken out of games and not put back in. Thus people, like myself, can conclude that he is inconsistent and erratic. Nate was protecting the team from his poor play when he was playing poorly. When he was effective, Nate gave him minutes.

Its just another way to look at the stats. That is why I don't do the whole 48PER and average things out because it doesn't take into account what is really happening on the floor.

If he plays 7 minutes, has 4 turnovers and 1 assist in one game and in another gets 22 minutes because he isn't turning the ball over and gets 8 assists and 2 turnovers, that doesn't mean he should get more minutes. The averages are weighted towards his better performances because he was left in when he was performing well.

by tssbro on Sep 29, 2007 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions

Green's defense

Even if he hardly plays, when we need a stop at the end of the game against a really good PG, Green will be in to get that stop.

Some people seem to be thinking only about clutch offensive plays, but I wonder if Nate is thinking last minute defense. If you have to try and stop Nash or Paul or someone like that, Green is the guy we have that is most likely to do so, even if he's just a bit player otherwise.

And if you need a clutch basket and he's already in the game, he might hit a key shot for us, too, or at least be enough of a threat to keep his man from cheating.

by jscot on Sep 29, 2007 1:32 AM PDT reply actions

This is the part that seems a surprise

I expected Green would see time in closing garbage-time minutes with the game out of reach either way. The prospect of him getting crunch time minutes indicates that Nate sees him on both ends of the floor as a much more NBA ready contributor than can normally be assumed for a rookie point guard.

Perhaps the other guards see the statements as a big shot of encouragement to a rookie who must sometimes look at those ahead of him and wonder if he will ever get a chance to play. Sometimes we fans seem to assign and assume more contention than is actually there. And then at other times (Stoudemire-Strickland) we are left to wonder how one little roster move could cause a team to implode.

by bbfred on Sep 29, 2007 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions

Both ends

I'm not sure Nate sees him as the guy he wants in for the last shot, or taking the last shot. That might be what he was saying, but I don't see Nate calling a time out to get him in on offense.

What I definitely do see is Nate putting him in on defense when the other team called a timeout to set up their last play. Even if Green hasn't played that much to that point, he's probably the closest thing we have to a defensive stopper at PG, and if the other team's PG is their first or second option, Nate puts Green in. He makes the stop, we win the game, Nate counts that as one of the 3-4 wins Green gets for us.

And if we get the stop, I don't see it as a situation where Nate feels he has to call timeout to get Green out of the game. He's a legitimate threat from the arc, which helps spread the floor for Roy to operate.

I suspect Nate is thinking Green wins 2-3 games with his defense, and 1-2 with a clutch 3 or a transition bucket/assist.

by jscot on Oct 1, 2007 1:48 AM PDT up reply actions

Euros

The NBA is still coming to grips w/ what European players bring to the table. It takes some imagination to project how Sergio or Fernandez could fit into the Blazers. You're probably going to want more running, more motion, more zone defense -- play a more fluid game in general -- more like the NBA was 30 years ago. This doesn't sound like Nate's MO, at least not during his time with the Blazers. So, it's not surprising that he's got Sergio at number four on the point guard depth chart. And it WOULD be surprising if Rudy or Kaponen ever have much of an impact here, if they ever show up. Nate's got a different kind of team in mind, doesn't he? And this might be a source of tension between Pritchard, who does seem creative about this sort of thing, and Nate.

by barryj on Sep 29, 2007 12:06 PM PDT reply actions

It seems

there is agreement that Green can play offense, play defense, run the team, and play well without the ball. That sounds pretty good.

by Kampeska on Sep 29, 2007 12:31 PM PDT reply actions

Green

was the starting point on the Florida Championships. That says a lot. No we dont have "the big three"... yet. We will have three players that will impact the league in a big way. People overlook the extra College time to quickly. Thats 2 years of starting time. 2 years of confidence. 2 years of leadership. I can easily see how Coach likes what he sees with Green. He is already looking seasoned. He knows what it means to be a leader on a championship team. He knows how to play the point and he will mold himself to what his coach needs from him.

Green is what Coach wants.

Dont get me wrong, I like Sergio and all, but something just doesnt feel right with him. Green may not stick around with Portland, but I have a gut feeling he is going to make quite the impact while he is here. Book it!

I think Blake and Jack will end up sticking around. I can easily see Blake finishing up his career here. Not sure about Jack yet.

by Blazer on Sep 30, 2007 4:48 AM PDT reply actions

Agreed

Green won 2 NCAA titles, Blake won one. These are PG's who have guided their teams through big game after big game.

I can still see the Blazers trading Jack. That radio interview he did with the Atlanta radio station back in June where he makes fun of the city of Portland still sticks in my craw. It will be interesting to see if Jack can play on a running team. There were many opportunities last year when I said to my TV "go with it JJ" and he held back the offense. I think he will be a decent player but not much better than average.

You are right on Blazer, Green is a Nate type of player.

by TallTimber on Sep 30, 2007 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions

sergioFTW is right - trade him

I stopped reading when I found sergioFTW's comment. He's right. Let's trade Sergio now while he still holds a glimmer of promise in the eyes of a few GMs around the league. There's his trade value right there -- that glimmer of promise. Put him on the bench all year and say bye bye to that glimmer, maybe all the way bye bye forever. Trade him now while he has value.

And let's finally admit the surge just isn't working. The surge was a bad idea all along. Paul Allen makes mistakes, just like everyone else, just like the idiots in Washington DC who keep wrecking our country.

When church and state marry, the devil pays for the reception.

by fisheyes on Sep 30, 2007 8:56 PM PDT reply actions

Huh

I cannot tell if this is a joke post or not. I am hoping for the latter.

ROTUNDITYDOTNET

by damir on Oct 1, 2007 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions

Hey Fisheyes

you should read "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle. I find that it allows me to look at the events of the world differently and I feel alot more empowered.

I was a world system theory sociology major. That is the study of Economics, Society and the Environment and the way they are connected and impact one another. I'm sure I know just as much stuff about geopolitics and economics as you do if not more. It's all pretty disappointing to say the least.

The book I recommended however, has helped me more then I can say and has given me fresh insight into a variety of things and I'm infinitely happier then I was attempting to reorder the global economic and political sphere through sheer force of will. Not even the folks in D.C. can do that. Trust me read that book from cover to cover and see how you feel after that. It helped me a ton and I'm vastly more effective at helping the world now then I was when I was up to my eyeballs in world politics etc.

I also tend to always agree with your political stances and rarely with your basketball ones! It's funny how that works.

I think we should keep Sergio for a couple of years at least until he can play a full season with Rudy. Sergio has to learn to work harder at the parts of the game that don't come easy to him. If he does he will be a phenom in the league if not Jason Williams is the template...not a template I want on this team. Let's give him some time.

October, October, October, October, October...... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin)

by Idog1976 on Oct 2, 2007 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions

Taurean Green won't get much PT....

...but if he really is, as Nate said, our best guard from long range he'll play at the end of games when we're down a few points and need a 3. Happens all the time, 3 point specialists come in to keep the defense guessing. But that doesn't mean he's in the "9 man rotation". If Blake or Jack get hurt (or traded? could happen...) Sergio and Green will be battling for the backup PG minutes.

by nlj on Oct 1, 2007 4:02 PM PDT reply actions

Sergio was never that great

I don't get what so many people see in him. Bad shooter, terrible defender, undersized, turnover-prone...

Yeah he's a good passer when he keeps it under control which is almost never.

by leeroyjenkins on Oct 2, 2007 7:23 AM PDT reply actions

Well...

...outstanding ball handler and passer. Great court vision. Gives teammates easy baskets. Plays with a charismatic flair and passion. Shooting and defending are things most young PGs need work on. Actually how many sharp shooting PGs are in the league right now period? Plays out of control sometimes and is still learning the NBA game. He's young, he's talented and he's exciting.

When he played well last year he played EXCEPTIONALLY well. Looked like an All-Star on multiple occasions - especially in the Denver game. When he played poorly he played...well he got yanked and didn't play again...started the season slow, played really well for a while, got injured, came back and played below average for a PG and, maybe, average for a 20 year old euro rookie PG.

No Sergio fan will tell you he's perfect but he's obviously talented and fun to watch. And young. Also: young. He's young. I'm not sure if he'll actually develop into a star but I'm confident he'll be at least a spark plug off the bench in this league for years to come.

by nlj on Oct 2, 2007 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions

He's young

Also, like Nash, Parker, and a handful of others, he has the speed, shiftiness, and "handle" necessary to get to practically wherever he wants on the court. In part, that's why--at his best-- he's able to find teammates for wide open shots; he's able to break down the defense. Jack, by contrast, is more plodding.

This isn't to say that Sergio should start ahead of Jack or Blake. I'm not even sure he's better than Green at this point. But that ability to go where he wants on the court is a special gift. If and when Sergio combines more "fundamental" skills with that, he'll be a special player.

by hurryup09 on Oct 2, 2007 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions

bad shooter?

2006-2007 season.

Field Goal %:
Brandon Roy - 45%
Jarret Jack - 45%
Sergio Rodriguez -42.5%

I'm not sure if 2.5% is enough to go from rookie of the year shooting to 'bad shooter.'

luckily Leeroy, i'm tired of trying to combat the "sergio is an out-of-control turnover machine' myth spread by people who either didn't watch the games closely last-year or have some weird bias against exciting basketball--but saying "Yeah he's a good passer when he keeps it under control which is almost never." is just plainly wrong.

by sergioFTW on Oct 2, 2007 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions