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Transcript: Blazers Acting GM Chad Buchanan Talks Greg Oden

Monday morning, the Portland Trail Blazers announced that center Greg Oden was set to undergo an arthroscopic procedure on his left knee. Monday afternoon, the Blazers announced that doctors opted instead to perform a microfracture surgery on Oden's left knee. The injury officially ends Oden's 2011-2012 season and the typical recovery time from a microfracture surgery of this nature is roughly one year.

Blazers Acting GM Chad Buchanan took questions at the team's Practice Facility on Monday later Monday afternoon. The transcript of those comments is here.

I wrote this extended feature about Oden for CBBSports.com on Monday night. It encapsulates where things stands and how we've gotten to this point. It took awhile. A lot of it is review for Blazers fans but it provides some added context to the quotes that you might not get from the transcript form.

The following transcript includes comments made by Buchanan after the general media session wrapped up on Monday. There were roughly 10 reporters on hand for the earlier comments and just two or three for these.

Before we get to the full transcript, here are some important digest notes from the last 24 hours...

  • Oden is now on a small-salary one-year contract with no ability to play again until roughly February 2013, at the earliest. While Buchanan said this was not officially a "career-ending" injury, he also would not say affirmatively that it's still possible for Oden to receive medical clearance to play basketball at some point in the future, when asked that question twice.
  • This puts Oden into a similar situation as the one that faced former Blazers big man Jeff Pendergraph, who went down to a season-ending knee injury in the 2010 preseason. Pendergraph was eventually released to create a roster spot. The same thing very well could happen to Oden. With the trade deadline approaching, it's likely no move would be made until after March 15, as his salary could be used for matching purposes in a trade.
  • A random tidbit: as a one-year Bird player, Oden actually has the right to approve or reject any trade that involves him, according to a league source.
  • The Blazers do not have the ability to apply for a Disabled Player Exception for Oden because the Jan. 15 deadline has already passed, according to a league source. A DPE could have created a roster spot without necessitating his release. Even with the lockout schedule this year, the deadline was not adjusted back.
  • Oden is expected to return to Portland in the next week to 10 days and will be allowed to do whatever makes him most comfortable. There are currently no plans for him to address the media and it's unclear whether he will remain around the team or continue to attend games.
  • Remember: he's now recovering from two knee surgeries: an arthroscopic procedure on his right knee and this microfracture on his left knee. Also, Buchanan said the "minor blood clots" that were discovered on Feb. 3 very well could have caused Oden to miss the rest of the 2011-2012 season if he hadn't gone forward with the microfracture because of the medication needed to treat them.
  • One of the most interesting and important takeaways from Monday was the admission that Oden's rehabilitation progress, both after the fractured patella and after the most recent microfracture, was fairly limited. The details regarding both the pain and the swelling that he's experienced during workouts are pretty raw, but newsworthy from a big-picture standpoint. Unfortunately they amount to a peek behind the curtain at everyone's worst nightmare.

Has this been bad luck?

It's been unfortunate. I think Greg would tell you that he's more disappointed than any of us that he hasn't been able to get out there and play more than he has. From our standpoint, as many injuries as he's had, you feel like is it bad luck or is he just not meant to be here in Portland? For Greg, it's more disappointing for him than anything. He just wants to be out there playing. That's all he wants to do. To go through all these hurdles he's had to go through is very challenging and we've tried to remain there at his side.

Anything he can do to change this?

Maybe it's a little bit of bad luck. No way to know for sure on that. Greg and probably his agent will probably look closer at helping him try to get healthy in dealing with some of the injuries he's dealt with. There's definitely probably a little bad luck involved there for him as well.

What are those alternative options?

I'm sure he will look under every rock. For example, Kobe having the results he's had going overseas, something like that, I'm sure he'll look into. We've talked to him about that a little bit. We want to help him the best we can. Ultimately Greg wants to get himself rid of being injury-prone as he has been and he'll consider any avenue he can.

Can you give us something about his current mindset?

I think he feels disappointed that he hasn't been able to get out there. He knows that he has a lot of people who have expectations on him and want to see him out there. He understands that. He feels kind of like it's been out of his control, these injuries. He understands what people were wanting from him. He wanted to provide that to the team, for the fans and the organization. Unfortunately he just hasn't been able to. For him to continually go through that over and over again both going through it himself and communicate it over and over again probably isn't the most enjoyable thing for someone to go through.

I understand people want to hear from him but he's in a tough spot having to go through what he's gone through. He's an outgoing person but he's also a very private person, that's how he's chosen to deal with this. I commend him for going through what he's had to go through. Different people deal with it in different ways and this is how he's dealing with what he's had to go through.

Where is he at mentally these days? We haven't heard from him in years.

Going through what he's gone through today, it's hard to say where he's at mentally. I talked to him right after he came out of surgery and he was still very groggy. It's disappointing for him. He had hoped that it wouldn't come to this today but he knew it was a possibility but he's disappointed, he knows what lies ahead for him, recovering from another one of these. As far as off the court, that's his private life. We're not going to stick our nose in that. We're going to support Greg and help him become the best player he become. Ultimately he's gone through too many health issues to do that.

Has he been a model citizen in recent years in terms of behind the scenes?

Absolutely. Greg has been great to deal with.

No other surgeries scheduled or planned?

Nothing planned. Barring something coming up again.

Nothing else around the corner?

No more unless the doctors find something in the next week or month or two months, there's nothing on the horizon.

Was he knocked out during the surgery? Did he first learn he had microfracture when he woke up?

When he awoke from his surgery, yeah. He went in at 10:30, it was a couple hours probably. That's a rough estimate.

What do you make of fans booing Greg Oden at the Rose Garden?

Fans have a right to do whatever they choose but I think you've got to remember at the core is a human being who has been through a lot. Stuff that wasn't his choice. He wants more than anything to be out there playing. This is stuff that was out of his control that's happened to him and it's unfortunate that some choose to do that.

Does it make you angry?

I mean, I know Greg as a person. To hear people, it hurts a little bit. It hurts more for Greg to think that stuff is out of his control, I know fans are frustrated, Greg is frustrated but this is stuff that was out of his control. It's unfortunate that it's happened but it's happened. No one wants to be out there playing more than Greg does. Fans -- it's their right. I think we have great fans, I understand their frustration and I think you also have to remember he's a human being who's been through a lot and it was't any of his choice.

Do you remember your feelings when you guys called in the first pick of the 2007 NBA Draft?

Very excited. A chance to draft a player who could potentially get your franchise get to your ultimate goal. Looking back on it, I think we were all excited. Had visions of Greg being a great player for us for years to come. Unfortunately it hasn't happened. It's part of sports, it's part of life. Sometimes things don't play out the way you hope or expect. You just have to move forward and make the best of things. We still have a lot of good players here that we want to continue to build around. Unfortunately Greg hasn't been part of it the last five years. But at the end of the day it's a human being who has been through a lot. You have to have some compassion for him.

What do you say to the 2007 NBA Draft second-guessers?

Looking back on it, I would still draft Greg. Going into that draft, obviously hindsight, it's easy to make an assumption at that point. With the information we had leading up to the draft, who we thought Greg would be as a player, obviously you can't predict the injuries that would come, going back on it, at that point, I wouldn't have changed anything, drafting Greg.

Was the decision unanimous?

I don't want to comment on that one.

-- Ben Golliver | benjamin.golliver@gmail.com | Twitter

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Almost had Durant.

Wouldn’t have to worry about how bad Felton is if only we drafted Durant.

by CoryBauer on Feb 21, 2012 9:18 AM PST reply actions  

yeah, 'draft the stache' was the rage,

somehow, management didn’t go with the fan vote.
Too bad they didn’t stick with that technique on the ‘honk once or twice’ vote.

If what you are doing is not working, try something else.

by Berkeley on Feb 21, 2012 10:13 AM PST up reply actions  

I hate to keep harping on it, but again:
Looking back on it, I would still draft Greg. Going into that draft, obviously hindsight, it’s easy to make an assumption at that point. With the information we had leading up to the draft, who we thought Greg would be as a player, obviously you can’t predict the injuries that would come, going back on it, at that point, I wouldn’t have changed anything, drafting Greg.

That is such a fail of player evaluation, and that’s totally just on the perspective of how badly they scouted Durant. No one in a player evaluation/scouting/assessment role deserves their job when they miss identifying the top college to pro player of the decade, a guy who’s always in the MVP conversation starting at age 21 and has all the leadership and willingness to sacrifice stats for wins that that front office claimed the other guy had and implied Durant didn’t have.

by howlingfantods on Feb 21, 2012 9:20 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

I miss when the injury news of the day was "oh no, tonsillectomy!" (yes, that is the top story remaining on that special site)

http://www.nba.com/blazers/odendurant.html

As for the Oden vs Durant debate, I don’t read into that statement any denial of how good Durant is. At that time from their statements, it seemed pretty obvious to them that both teams would get a great player in the assessment of both the Sonics and the Blazers. After the workouts they liked both, and it came down to thinking a two-way center would impact them more and/or fit better next to the two young stars they already thought they had.

by Norsktroll on Feb 21, 2012 9:41 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

picking for need instead of BPA and overvaluing 7 footers

are the classic drafting blunders in the NBA.

They badly undervalued Durant. All their public statements about Durant (paraphrasing but “one of these guys will win scoring titles, the other will win titles” or “one thing we kept coming back to with Greg was that he was a winner who cared about wins, not stats”) demonstrated very poor player evaluations.

If you can’t envision winning titles with a player as gifted as Durant, you’re badly missing your evaluation targets, and they couldn’t have been more wrong with their implication that Durant was about stats not wins.

People harp on their failures in predicting Oden’s injuries, and I think there’s a little bit of truth to that, but that’s not what I harp on them for. I harp on them them for horribly mis-scouting the floors and ceilings for both guys — Durant was simply and straightforwardly a better, more impactful player.

by howlingfantods on Feb 21, 2012 9:55 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

He hasn't won one yet

And I doubt he’ll win this year.

"Brandon Roy has done this before."

by sabonis11 on Feb 21, 2012 10:05 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

yes. he hasn't. Neither has LeBron, Dwight, CP3,

and any number of outstanding players. Single players don’t win titles, teams do—but what your talent evaluators are responsible for is getting the best players they can given their resources.

Our talent evaluators totally failed in their job, falling prey to the twin errors of overvaluing 7 footers and drafting for need that NBA front offices always fall prey to every year.

by howlingfantods on Feb 21, 2012 10:10 AM PST up reply actions  

we can't say that without a healthy Oden and you know it

KP nailed Durant being a scoring champion, how impactful as a two-way beast of a center would Oden have to be to pass up someone you predict as a scoring champion?

We’ll never get to see it so it doesn’t matter, but both players were right there. I believe that we had Oden pegged, injuries aside, and I believe that dominating centers are the rarest breed in NBA basketball.

What you’re doing is looking at the decision through the tint of Oden’s injuries. You are implying that even healthy Oden couldn’t touch Durant in terms of impact. I think that premise is bunk and I reject it strongly.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Feb 21, 2012 10:10 AM PST up reply actions   3 recs

I watched almost every Ohio State game that year,

and never saw a guy that seemed much better than a better rebounding Mutombo. Yeah a fantastic talent (I LOVED Mutombo and think he’s the main reason why the sixers reached the finals that one year) but not one I’d pass up for a MVP level guy.

And nothing I saw in his 82 games reflected anything different from that — a guy who tops out at 18/13/3 shooting 65 TS% is terrific, no question. But not one that approaches an incredibly clutch 28/8 guy shooting 60 TS%.

by howlingfantods on Feb 21, 2012 10:17 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

sorry man, but I think Sammy is right here

I think everybody looks at this situation through the rear-view mirror and being a revisionist skews the facts of the day back then. Durant had strength and conditioning issues that scouts thought could be a red flag, while Oden was NBA ready physically. There’s no question that Durant was the better offensive player, but wings typically don’t change the offense of the opposing team like an athletic 7 footer who can push people around can. In the little bit we’ve seen Oden play for us, we saw how much he changed (not necessarily dominated, but changed) what the opposing offense had to do. That’s what teams need to limit second chance points and easy baskets from the opposition. What are Portland’s two biggest issues right now this season? Second chance points (offensive rebounds) and easy baskets.

Oden was the right pick, and any GM in the NBA would have done the same. That may be to the detriment of the game, but it is what it is. Big guys come at a premium, and you have to snatch them when you can.

by Eric Loftin on Feb 21, 2012 10:32 AM PST up reply actions   2 recs

Durant didn't have any conditioning issues, Oden did.

Oden came into Portland and was visibly gassed during his workout. He blamed it on the air from being in high altitude (???)

Durant had trouble with the bench press. No one cared except Chad Ford.

In the age of Kobe and Lebron, it’s just so insane to keep talking about wings versus centers. It’s a team game. Yes, good defensive centers are absolutely necessary to win a title, but it’s a hell of a lot easier to pick up a Chandler Tyson or Kendrick Perkins or via trade than a Kobe or a Lebron.

by howlingfantods on Feb 21, 2012 10:39 AM PST up reply actions  

"In the age of Kobe and Lebron, it’s just so insane to keep talking about wings versus centers. "

LeBron James is on a different level, though. Had James and Greg Oden been in the same draft class, every last front office executive and their mother — alive or dead — would’ve taken LeBron. Entering his draft class, James was the most gifted prospect in NBA Draft history.

Comparing James as a draft prospect to Kevin Durant as a draft prospect is an insult to James, since an 18-year-old LBJ circa 2003 would’ve run circles around the weak, relatively unathletic — fluid, yet unathletic — 19-year-old KD circa 2007.

by AK1984 on Feb 21, 2012 10:54 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

*shrug* i know you still hate Durant, but you must recognize at this point

that you’re in the tiny minority of Durant haters among the cognoscenti.

I think when he was drafted that he was obviously the second best prospect this decade only slightly behind LBJ. Yes, I would have taken LBJ at 18 but Durant was very very close. Both were 18 when drafted so I’m not sure what you’re talking about with the age comparison – LBJ was an old senior (19th bday december his draft year) in HS, Durant was a very young freshman in college (19th bday september his draft year).

by howlingfantods on Feb 21, 2012 10:59 AM PST up reply actions  

I forgot Kevin Durant was a young freshman at Texas, since the one time ...

a draft prospect being young for his class was noteworthy was Andrew Bynum in 2005. With a late October b-day, Bynum had just barely turned 18 in time for opening night of 2005-2006 season.

Back to LBJ and KD, they were nowhere close. In 2003, James was a once-in-a-generation, transcendent talent. In the 2000s, I’d rank the top-five prospects based on hype in the order of LBJ, Yao Ming, Greg Oden, Darko, and Melo. KD would lead off the next five with Blake, D-Rose, Beasley, and a Dwight/Emeka tie at #10.

by AK1984 on Feb 21, 2012 11:18 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I thought Yao, Darko were obviously overhyped, Melo modestly so.

Actually Yao ended up being better than I expected. The first two are examples of one main draft day mistake (overrating height) and Melo’s an example of another (overrating statistically small sample sizes during March Madness).

LBJ was super hyped a lot because he developed physically very early, Durant was a late bloomer and wasn’t hyped as much. But I thought his skill level and efficiency his one year in college made him a comparable prospect. And, again, I thought that was clear enough so the Blazers brass ought to have recognized that fact.

by howlingfantods on Feb 21, 2012 11:37 AM PST up reply actions  

The 'big' factor that I think gets overlooked in this argument

is the skill factor. Durant was a gym rat hyper skilled ‘player’.
Oden was ‘big’. People throwing around names like Kareem or Olajuwon was silly. The pickt also reflects on preferred style of play – skill and finesse VS plodding ‘circle Sumo’. I obviously enjoy the former more.
Strength issues with Durant ? He was strong enough to get the ball into the basket from all over and light enough to move and jump. Let the game develop the needed strength. Furthermore, less mass produce less stress on any body.
Hey, Oden was an ok pick (if no medical issues existed, which seems questionable), but certainly not my pick. I viewed Oden as more of a ‘project’. Durant was a great player who was likely to develop well.

If what you are doing is not working, try something else.

by Berkeley on Feb 21, 2012 10:48 AM PST up reply actions  

"People throwing around names like Kareem or Olajuwon was silly."

Who mentioned Kareem Abdul-Jabbar? The last time a prospect got labeled with that comp was probably Ralph Sampson in the early-’80s.

Now, some people foolishly brought up Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson; yet, those were silly due to the vast differences in skill sets. Both Olajuwon and Robinson were mobile, agile big men with abilities on offense ranging from a pivot to a guard. I believe a lot of people tossed those two names around for Oden due to defense, but even that it didn’t work due to Olajuwon and Robinson having much quicker hands — which is why they were great ball hawks for centers — and swifter lateral quickness.

For Greg Oden, the old-timer comparison used by a lot of talking heads and fans was Bill Russell; however, that made no sense stylistically or physique wise. From a hype standpoint, Georgetown era Patrick Ewing was the best fit for Greg Oden coming out of Ohio State. From a stylistic and physique standpoint, much-forgotten ‘70s/’80s big man Artis Gilmore was the most apt comparison for Oden when healthy.

by AK1984 on Feb 21, 2012 11:04 AM PST up reply actions  

people threw around shaq, absurdly enough.

Artis Gilmore’s not a bad comparison, but no way I draft Artis Gilmore over Kevin Durant. Or Pat Ewing, come to think of it.

by howlingfantods on Feb 21, 2012 11:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Ewing seemed like a more reasonable comparison,

which did not excite me anything like Durant.
Though I do think Gred would have been better than Ewing, not to mention I like the guy’s personality.
My gripe is never with Oden, it is with management.

If what you are doing is not working, try something else.

by Berkeley on Feb 21, 2012 11:14 AM PST up reply actions  

He certainly would've been different, as Patrick Ewing developed into ...

having more of a mid-range and baseline face-up game in the NBA versus the back-to-the-basket game that Greg Oden appeared to be honing when on the court.

by AK1984 on Feb 21, 2012 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, Shaq was also a dumb comparison.

For me, I saw drafting Greg Oden over Kevin Durant like drafting Artis Gilmore over George Gervin. It’s too bad Oden’s body was fragile fool’s gold, because we’ll never get to see how he’d’ve panned out if healthy.

by AK1984 on Feb 21, 2012 11:23 AM PST up reply actions  

I do believe that healthy Greg Oden would have been great.

Really, he was better than I expected when playing.
The injuries are certainly the real problem. To what extent they could have been predicted I don’t know, though I’m pretty sure no one could have forseen such frail knees. Greg’s knee cartliage just does not seemed destined for an NBA career, which is sad.
Just ‘in general’ bigs seem more fragile, though not always.

If what you are doing is not working, try something else.

by Berkeley on Feb 21, 2012 6:10 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't remember those, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Regarding Tim Duncan, I still think Brook Lopez moves in an weirdly similar way to Duncan. A dirty, mangy homeless man’s version of Duncan, but yeah.

I feel the same toward Anthony Davis, whose late bloomer status, late growth spurt, undeveloped frame, and insane defensive skills reminds me of when watching YouTube clips of a young David Robinson — such as when battling Sabonis in the 1986 FIBA World Championship — although I realize that’s a huge stretch in terms of ceiling. The problem, though, is that the possibility of Davis reaching that ceiling is like 1/100.

by AK1984 on Feb 21, 2012 11:35 AM PST up reply actions  

problem with the Lopezes is that they're pansies.

Got no grit to bang in the paint. “Bigs” who play like smalls are death to win totals.

by howlingfantods on Feb 21, 2012 11:39 AM PST up reply actions  

the point was, people seemed to have distinctly inflated

expectations of Oden’s skill set.

If what you are doing is not working, try something else.

by Berkeley on Feb 21, 2012 11:11 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm not sure where along the line those people were proved wrong

they’re not proved wrong because Durant is a stud or because Oden has been injured.

For a center with that type of power, Oden was skilled. He was a good FT shooter, he was a good passer, he had touch.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Feb 21, 2012 11:12 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

fair point, he did have some good games.

Though his workout, for instance, was not encouraging.

If what you are doing is not working, try something else.

by Berkeley on Feb 21, 2012 11:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Hey I have been happy to have him on the team

or, at least, the hope of him. I just would have enjoyed Durant more from day one.

If what you are doing is not working, try something else.

by Berkeley on Feb 21, 2012 11:22 AM PST up reply actions  

I'd switch it in a heartbeat if I could

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Feb 21, 2012 11:26 AM PST up reply actions  

that's fine

I respect your opinion and I know you are speaking from your own observations.

However, MVP is kind of a stupid award and doesn’t mean much to me. I would argue that Dwight Howard’s value to the Magic would merit him being more in the conversation than he has been, but it’s always about the scorers. That doesn’t diminish the value of his defense and rebounding.

Oden was a complexion changer and could literally affect every single possession on both ends of the court. I believe he would have done that with regularity. It’s much easier to find a 20 ppg scorer on the perimeter (which is plenty sufficient with a good team, you don’t always need a 30 ppg guy) than it is to find a 17-22 ppg, 12-16 rpg, 2-4 bpg, defensive stalwart 7’0’’+ 280+ lb monster who can pass, has good instincts, has athleticism, has touch, etc… There have been a lot of big men in the NBA, a lot of great ones…but Oden’s combination of power, touch, skill, size, athleticism…I believe it would have been truly unique.

Too often in situations like this we want to tear down one guy to lift up the other. I don’t want to tear down Durant, the guy is a phenomenal player. I think Oden would have been a phenomenal player too. I believe that there were two phenomenal players at the top of that draft. We picked the one who’s been injured more than any player in NBA history. If we had reason to think that might be the case, well that’s a whole different conversation. But if we assume both players were expected to be healthy then I don’t know how much you can criticize the pick without the benefit of Oden’s injuries in hindsight.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Feb 21, 2012 10:47 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

How exactly would we know that he would be an MVP level player?

What if his height and dribbling issues kept him from playing the 3 effectively in the NBA? Or that his skinny and lax defense would translate into being able to guard elite 3s? We easily could have had another Travis Outlaw on our hands.

by Batumshakalaka on Feb 21, 2012 10:52 AM PST up reply actions  

.... I think that's kind of my point.

If you can’t recognize a MVP level player when you’re a talent evaluator, especially when the prospect is so obvious (player of the year, athletic/tall for his position, big 12 DPOY, first year player and not a product of a system centered around him, right mentality focused on wins, gym rat, etc etc etc), then you’ve failed massively.

by howlingfantods on Feb 21, 2012 11:07 AM PST up reply actions  

kobe was only the second prep to pro guy in recent memory at that time.

teams obviously hadn’t figured out how to evaluate prep to pros at that point, and Kobe’s and KG’s success was a big part of why so many other prep to pros followed and why teams started overrating them.

So there was a specific reason why folks missed on Kobe, and it’s something all GMs realized was a mistake.

by howlingfantods on Feb 21, 2012 1:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Prep-to-pro players weren't the norm in the mid-'90s, so they were a market ...

inefficiency at the time. Soon afterward, annual draft classes became flooded with prep-to-pro players and it became a risky proposition to draft them. The 2001 NBA Draft was the apex.

by AK1984 on Feb 21, 2012 3:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Which sounds great on paper

And yet #1 picks seem to bust surprisingly often if they aren’t once in a generation talent, and even then, who knows who the injury bug will hit. Look at Grant Hill, drafted 3rd in the draft of ’94. In his second year he was averaging 21 points, 9 rebounds and 7 assists. He averaged nearly 26 points the next season and considered the next Jordan. Then injuries derailed his career as well.

The first in his draft? Glenn Robinson, you just never know. As always, hindsight is 20/20.

by Batumshakalaka on Feb 21, 2012 5:09 PM PST up reply actions  

there's not a ton he can say in an interview like this
obviously you can’t predict the injuries that would come

If they could have predicted the injuries, they would have taken Durant. Besides, knowing what Blazers fandom is like if we did take Durant he’d probably be the injured one while Oden dominates for OKC.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Feb 21, 2012 9:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Oh, come on

Who in the Blazers’ front office ever claimed Durant lacked anything at all? They raved about him. The only factor they cited in choosing GO over Durant was that he was the better fit—the EXACT piece the team lacked.

It’s easy to forget now, but the Blazers already HAD a high-scoring, control the ball, all-star wing in Brandon Roy. Remember? The savior of the franchise? There’s only one ball, and those two players would NOT have complemented each other; even Roy acknowledged as much. Bringing in Durant would inevitably have meant trading either him or Roy. Imagine how that would have gone over in Portland.

It’s easy to say now, “the Blazers should have drafted Durant and traded Roy.” But remember how Durant struggled his first two seasons? Imagine the outcry had the Blazers unloaded the team’s on and off-court leader, just entering his prime, to cater to the needs of that skinny kid. The losses would have mounted and Durant would have been booed off the court—if any fans were left in the stands to boo.

By contrast, if GO had stayed healthy and fulfilled his abundant potential (they did call it the “Oden Draft,” remember?), he would have provided the toughness, defensive dominance, and low post offensive presence to perfectly complement Roy and LMA’s talents.

Basketball is a game of chemistry, and unless you possessed a crystal ball that told you that GO would be injury-prone and that Durant would be injury-free, there was no way the Blazers could have passed on Greg Oden.

The Blazers were PERFECTLY aware of Durant’s talent and character. That’s why they agonzied over the decision at a time when most fans thought it was a no-brainer. But for the reasons detailed above, they made the only decision they could. To say otherwise now is 20-20 hindsight.

I still believe in Greg Oden. The Blazers' medical staff? Not so much.

I'd change my handle to "bringback'09," but I'm too lazy.

by hurryup09 on Feb 21, 2012 11:23 AM PST up reply actions   4 recs

two classic NBA draft day errors

1) Overvalue height
2) Draft for need instead of best player possible

We’ve now had three of the worst blunders in NBA draft history (LaRue, Bowie, Oden) all for these two reasons.

You draft for chemistry/fit when you’ve got a pick lower than top 10. You draft for best player available when you’ve got a top 5 type pick.

by howlingfantods on Feb 21, 2012 11:45 AM PST up reply actions  

I really really don't think you can apply that to Oden

there was a legitimate discussion about who the BPA was, and for legitimate reasons.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Feb 21, 2012 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

people always say that about the lesser 7 footer

after the fact. But when you hear GMs and scouts talk vaporous BS like “he just wins” in the face of such disparity in production, you know they’re letting things other than facts determine their decisions.

by howlingfantods on Feb 21, 2012 11:55 AM PST up reply actions  

height has value, that's how basketball works

centers are rare, it adds to their value. If someone had identical production to Durant but was a 6’5’’ wing and not a 6’10’’ wing who’s the better player? Who’s more valuable? It’s not an apples to apples comparison. Those things are valued for a reason. This isn’t Olowakandi, this isn’t Kwame Brown. This isn’t wishful thinking projecting skills onto a big stiff. Oden was the real deal. So is Durant. Oden’s injured. That’s life.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Feb 21, 2012 11:58 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

As you say, dominant centers are rare

Even Durant said, when the Blazers picked GO over him, that they’d done the right thing. He said something to the effect of, “You’ve got to go with the big: Greg Oden is a beast.”

You can say Durant was just being humble, but I don’t think so. He knew what he was capable of. But he understood basketball, and he knew that Greg Oden was a game-changer—a freakishly athletic 7-footer who could distort everything the opponent wanted to do at both ends. Those guys only come along once in a decade or so, and no GM in his right mind would pass up the chance to draft one.

What if the converse had occurred? What if the Blazers had drafted the skinny wing and he’d blown out his knee. (Durant’s own first NBA coach was so concerned about his frailty that he protected him by playing him at two-guard.) How dumb would the Blazers have looked THEN?

Again, it all boils down to the fact that no one could predict GO’s injury problems, or Durant’s perfect health. Maybe, armed with knowledge of GO’s childhood hip surgery, a valid concern might have been raised. But that’s a separate argument—not one over the relative merits of picking the freakish, high-scoring wing or the freakish, beastly center.

I still believe in Greg Oden. The Blazers' medical staff? Not so much.

I'd change my handle to "bringback'09," but I'm too lazy.

by hurryup09 on Feb 21, 2012 6:31 PM PST up reply actions  

LaRue Martin was a draft blunder based on contractual and financial reasons.

Since draft picks are now slotted, that blunder can no longer be made these days.

by AK1984 on Feb 21, 2012 11:53 AM PST up reply actions  

Its an interview done the same day as another Oden micro. He’s not likely to pick that day to talk candidly about the disaster that pick turned out to be.

There’s a good chance Chad does still buy into the ‘you always take the big man’ conventional wisdom. If so, he’s not the guy I want as my long term GM.

Still, I don’t really care what answer he gives to the media in an interview so soon after Oden’s ruled out yet again.

by jksnake99 on Feb 21, 2012 12:58 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah... it would help if anyone involved in the decision every candidly admits that they erred.

So far, all we’ve heard from everyone is “we were unlucky with the Oden injury” but no one has admitted they whiffed on the Durant eval.

by howlingfantods on Feb 21, 2012 1:09 PM PST up reply actions  

From a qualitative standpoint, you and a slew of others still overrate Kevin Durant.

Durant’s subpar shot creating and facilitating ability still hinders him, as does his porous defense.

For OKC, I truly believe that Russell Westbrook is the more valuable player between him and Durant.

by AK1984 on Feb 21, 2012 3:32 PM PST up reply actions  

And yeah, I do mean qualitative in this case.

Believe it or not, I periodically mix qualitative observation in with quantitative analysis.

by AK1984 on Feb 21, 2012 3:34 PM PST up reply actions  

"For OKC, I truly believe that Russell Westbrook is the more valuable player between him and Durant."

Yeah, I think that’s pretty demented, and honestly I think it hurts your credibility to continuing to make this claim. Keep in mind that by making this claim, you’re joining only Ric Bucher among prominent NBA watchers as thinking Westbrook is better than Durant. Ric pretty much thinks that, because to him, Kobe is the perfect wing, and Durant doesn’t play like Kobe.

And to be honest, that Kobe fetish seems to be the foundation of your evaluation of KD too—your main criticism of KD is that he doesn’t play the wing-playing-point-distributor-role that Kobe and LBJ play. But that describes assigned roles within an offense, and not that player’s ability.

Westbrook is immensely talented but a very flawed decisionmaker. Russ/KD is a rare instance in which Russ’s assist totals are pumped up by having a ludicrous finisher to complete plays, and the finisher ends up making the assist man look better.

I often think Westbrook has had like 5 or 6 assists on any given night and look up the totals and find he’s been given credit for like 8 or 9, and reviewing the tape, I find that he’s been given the dime for a number of those types of plays where he dribbles up the court, gives it to KD at the top of the key, KD looks at defender, takes a hard dribble pull up jumper, and Russ gets the dime. You know, those non-assisting assists.

by howlingfantods on Feb 21, 2012 4:44 PM PST up reply actions  

But Ric Bucher hates LeBron James and fellates Derrick Rose, so I'm dissimilar to that ...

imbecile. Taking Kobe Bryant out of it, I prefer shot creators on the wing ranging from LeBron James to Dwyane Wade to Manu Ginobili to Paul Pierce to Andre Iguodala.

On the other hand, I dislike distributor dependent wings ranging from Kevin Durant to Danny Granger to Nicolas Batum. NBA history doesn’t look kindly upon distributor dependent wings.

by AK1984 on Feb 22, 2012 4:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Danny Granger and Nic Batum? Seriously, you're so off the reservation

when you talk about Durant, it’s pretty astonishing.

Durant isn’t “distributor dependent” – if he played on another team where he wasn’t forced into playing off the ball the majority of sets or if he was more of a selfish statshound, he’d score 35 ppg and whoever was playing point guard would play off the ball most of the time. Durant gets assisted a lot but a lot of those assists are of the cheap pass to Durant on the perimeter, Durant surveys court, either takes a hard dribble and rises or drives the hoop, RW gets dime variety. Durant creates most of what he eats, and could create a ton more if he had the ball in his hands more.

Was Kareem “distributor dependent”? He was assisted plenty, but he also didn’t really need to be, if he’d wanted to, he could’ve averaged 40 ppg on post ups. Durant’s no more “distributor dependent” than Kareem.

by howlingfantods on Feb 22, 2012 8:36 AM PST up reply actions  

"Was Kareem 'distributor dependent'? He was assisted plenty, but he also didn’t really need to be, if he’d wanted to, he could’ve averaged 40 ppg on post ups."

Why wasn’t he scoring 40 a night and winning titles during the mid-to-late-’70s then?

That’s not to take anything away from KAJ — who I rate as the second best center in NBA history — yet, he was most successful when playing with Oscar Robertson first and later Magic Johnson.

Also, KAJ was a pretty darn good passer for a big man and, moreover, an even better facilitator as a big than Kevin Durant currently is as a wing. Let that thought sink in for a second.

Y’know, if Durant had the ball in his hands more and was forced to create at the level of LeBron James, then his efficiency would drop like a rock and his team’s points per possession would sink like a stone.

What type of 1 do you feel that would most maximize Durant? A pure point like Rondo, a scoring guard like Russell, or, perhaps, an off guard like Chalmers? I’d say Rondo, which is a strong indication of how distributor dependent Durant is as a shooter.

by AK1984 on Feb 22, 2012 10:40 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't think it really matters what type of 1 he plays with

except that Russ takes too many bad shot attempts instead of passing to Durant. KD would be great playing with anyone other than Nash and his acolytes (Ricky Rubio, Lin, CP3), who dominate the ball even more than Russ. Although I would assume that those guys would be smart enough to change their game if they played with someone like KD.

KAJ had better assist numbers but wasn’t a better passer than KD. KAJ played with a lot more cutters and spot up guys – norm, byron, wilkes, worthy. Even Kurt Rambis had pretty good hands and a good instinct for diving to the bucket when KAJ had the ball in the post double teamed.

KD plays limited minutes with Daequan, the only spot up guy (other than KD) on the team. Serge sometimes cuts but isn’t great at catching dimes, and Perkins has hands of stone. I’ve seen KD throw a lot of pretty passes that don’t get converted, which doesn’t prevent him from throwing them, but does make it a lesser focus for him personally and the team as a whole.

The only really good spot up guy on the team is KD, which is why Russ gets pretty good assist numbers despite being a little tunnel visioned for a 1. But you know, Russ gets like 5 or 6 assists from passing to KD, and KD makes a lot more than 5 or 6 shots a game.

It’s weird— I think it’s only possible to have this conversation with someone who came of age after the 80s. Before MJ, there wasn’t this combo wing/point role because efficient basketball generally breaks up the roles of distributor/finisher. After MJ, you have a bunch of wings who mistakenly think that’s how they’re supposed to play, since Kobe copies MJ and LBJ copies Kobe.

by howlingfantods on Feb 22, 2012 11:32 AM PST up reply actions  

oh, two other things about who OKC would be better with.

Russ is responsible for a lot of the OKC defensive issues, by constantly compromising the overall team defense by gambling for steals. I’d say he’s easily the biggest liability on that team’s defense.

And also, the face fronting defense against Durant to deny him the ball in the endgame should never work. He’s 6’11 with a 7’5 wingspan, usually being guarded by 6’6 guys. If Westbrook had more accuracy with his pass upstairs, it’d be impossible to deny Durant the ball.

by howlingfantods on Feb 22, 2012 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

"And also, the face fronting defense against Durant to deny him the ball in the endgame should never work."

See, I feel that’s beautiful defense against KD and credit Dallas for executing it to perfection last year.

I, moreover, blame Durant for not having the strength and quickness to break away from the defender, as that’s his responsibility.

by AK1984 on Feb 23, 2012 5:12 AM PST up reply actions  

You shouldn't need strength and quickness with a guy with

Durant’s ups being defended by such smaller guys, if the guy making the entry pass was more accurate with it. Russ simply isn’t good at the entry pass, which is one of the many ways you can tell he’s not really good at the point guard thing yet. Breathtaking as a slasher/finisher but not great at running an offense.

One funny thing about this debate is that I think KD is the best wing in the league, or the one I’d most want to have. LBJ I think is the only one worth arguing— he does have game that KD doesn’t have, but I do think he freezes in crunchtime, and KD is very clutch. LBJ’s tendency to choke in the last 4 minutes wouldn’t be enough to close the gap except KD’s production is pretty comparable for the other 44 too, and if production is close, I pick the guy who isn’t iffy in the last 4 minutes.

The other quibble I have with LBJ’s offense is that his efficiency is highly dependent on a heavy dose of transition finishes, much more so than KD. KD is better in the half court, and despite what you seem to think, better at creating his own shot with the ball in his hands. These are actually somewhat related points — LBJ has trouble rising to the moment in the last 4 minutes because the game slows down then, and he’s not as great scoring in the half court offense as KD or Kobe.

Kobe is authentically too selfish and not that efficient. Wade is fragile and inconsistent. Manu is fragile and is kind of at a different tier. No one else is in the conversation.

by howlingfantods on Feb 23, 2012 9:33 AM PST up reply actions  

I mean I get your point,

but I’m so sick of the Blazers brass constantly deflecting blame here, when it’s become so obvious that they badly whiffed on their Durant eval. Yes, yesterday wasn’t the day to do it, but they didn’t need to repeat this BS about “if we had to do it again, I’d do the exact same thing” crap.

by howlingfantods on Feb 21, 2012 1:19 PM PST up reply actions  

how is pegging Durant as a future scoring champ whiffiing on the eval??

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Feb 21, 2012 1:55 PM PST up reply actions  

because the implication was that he was a gunner/stats guy

as opposed to being a centerpiece of a title contending team.

by howlingfantods on Feb 21, 2012 2:12 PM PST up reply actions  

It wasn't about "gunner" status, although efficiency was a problem for KD his rookie year.

For example, George Gervin was an efficient scorer in the past like Durant is today. In spite of that, Gervin was still flawed ’cause of his unsatisfactory shot creating and facilitating ability — which resulted in a low number of assists and high number of turnovers — as a high-usage wing.

As a #1 option on the wing, it takes more than just scoring efficiently at a high rate. Y’see, it also takes being able to create looks for one’s self without having to rely a ton on others — which Durant does by leaning heavily on Russ as a table setter — as well as being able to occasionally set up fellow teammates as a distributor.

by AK1984 on Feb 21, 2012 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

It's also informative to watch the video to the transcript - Chad is smiling and chuckling quite a bit at inappropriate moments

It’s a behavior you can observe with public speakers who are nervous. Not so completely nervous that they are unable to explain what they want to say without stumbling around, but still uncomfortable with the situation. It’s more or less unconscious, the speaker might notice it but still prefers it to calm down and look somewhat confident and outgoing. I tend to do the same. I’ve not watched Buchanan often enough to see if he always does that when holding press conferences, or if this was just a particularly strange situation to talk about. Just in that situation his facial expression was not very fitting to the words he was saying, and in a situation where he could talk about a happy or neutral situation it might not be that noticeable. It’s especially stark when comparing it to how KP looked almost tearing up when he had to talk about Greg’s patella injury, though maybe Chad had a little more time to process the bad news before going in front of the media.

by Norsktroll on Feb 21, 2012 11:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Nailed it.

Rec

"Luke is our go-to Chalupa man," Matthews said. "Designated."

by Vorlauf on Feb 21, 2012 9:32 AM PST up reply actions  

yummy turnovers

get ‘em while they’re hot!

"Luke is our go-to Chalupa man," Matthews said. "Designated."

by Vorlauf on Feb 21, 2012 11:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Brady in college - buried in the depth chart for years and had trouble even getting on the field.

Durant in college – most celebrated one year career possible, winning every college player of the year awards possible, including (despite all the knocks against his defensive ability) the big 12 defensive POY.

So Brady was surprising. Durant really wasn’t. And unlike other previous amazing college pros who flamed out in the pros, Durant looked like he had all the right attributes to succeed in the pros — great size and athleticism for his position, was a celebrated first year college player (lots of busts have been 4 year guys — think stache), was humble and had a team first attitude, not a pure stats pumper like Melo.

Missing on Brady—totally justified. Missing on Durant—totally unjustified.

by howlingfantods on Feb 21, 2012 9:39 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

yeah, however 'awsome' hindsight might be,

foresight is a lot more awesome, and the there were those who saw the right choice.
It is not true that ‘everybody’ was sold on Oden.
So what now ? Nate is still guiding the show.

If what you are doing is not working, try something else.

by Berkeley on Feb 21, 2012 10:35 AM PST up reply actions  

Most celebrated one year in College ever....

….Until Michael Beasley. He’s a real chip off of Durant’s block for a scoring champ isn’t he?

It goes both ways. Durant was good in college, so was Beasley. Both were number 2 picks. One has gone on to be an MVP candidate, the other can’t find the floor for Minnesota.

by Eric Loftin on Feb 21, 2012 10:35 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

yeah, beasley is a very good counterexample.

Unlike Durant, he was a headcase, pothead, stat-focused, and short/unathletic for his position. It’s so rare to find a celebrated college one year guy like Durant, with none of the typical red flags that when you do, you jump to pick him and weep with gratitude at the opportunity.

by howlingfantods on Feb 21, 2012 11:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Give it up already

it doesn’t matter – we can’t go back in time. And let’s not forget we got extremely lucky getting the number 1 pick any way (with the 13th ball)

by ralphzillo on Feb 21, 2012 11:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Love this post..

Wannbe GM’s need to share their crystal ball with the blazers BEFORE the draft next time.

by JAWKS on Feb 21, 2012 10:59 AM PST up reply actions  

They did, starting with Ben

who did an extended expose on the topic – draftkevindurant

If what you are doing is not working, try something else.

by Berkeley on Feb 21, 2012 11:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Ben had it nailed

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Feb 21, 2012 11:13 AM PST up reply actions  

I did. Many times. And got shouted down around this site for being silly enough to think that

Durant could be a MVP candidate, centerpiece for title contender, future HOF type player.

by howlingfantods on Feb 21, 2012 11:13 AM PST up reply actions  

I can understand why people wanted Durant.

NBA execs knew he’d be a great player. What they didn’t know is that Greg would be hurt constantly.

by JAWKS on Feb 21, 2012 11:19 AM PST up reply actions  

Hindsight being what it is

the Blazers should have taken the millions they would have paid to Oden or Durant, and bet it all on the Giants over the Patriots.

by jigglyai on Feb 21, 2012 11:28 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Injury Red-Flags

Hopefully, those warnings won’t be ingnored in the future. Enough with the brittle players. Portland should take the Healthiest Player Available. I don’t care if they can even dribble a ball… I don’t want any more brittle players.

by The Keizer on Feb 21, 2012 9:33 AM PST reply actions  

KP said he couldn't sleep debating the Oden/Durant draft

Durant was ‘best workout ever’ (Oden was apologies for not so great).
Our pal Nate admitted Durant was not an option for him.
Aldridge and Roy picked up Durant at the airport for workout.
It was reported they disagreed on who to draft…. hmmm, Texas – LMA+Durant
Nate/Roy for the loss.

If what you are doing is not working, try something else.

by Berkeley on Feb 21, 2012 10:18 AM PST up reply actions  

That 'was the decision unanimous' question was a good one

PA just might have been out voted.
Nate got his way.

If what you are doing is not working, try something else.

by Berkeley on Feb 21, 2012 10:21 AM PST up reply actions  

oops, I meant KP outvoted

no idea about PA

If what you are doing is not working, try something else.

by Berkeley on Feb 21, 2012 10:30 AM PST up reply actions  

well, ultimately, PA was certainly not outvoted.

Only vote that mattered.

If what you are doing is not working, try something else.

by Berkeley on Feb 21, 2012 10:31 AM PST up reply actions  

haha

I was gonna say

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Feb 21, 2012 10:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Great article, Ben

Thanks for all the insights. It’s nice to have you guys at the Edge around to give us nuggets of Blazer goings-on. The team can be a little hard to follow, behind the curtain. Smoke and mirrors stuff. You guys do a fantastic job of pulling back the curtain now and then. Much appreciated!

by The Keizer on Feb 21, 2012 9:41 AM PST reply actions  

This summer, Cleveland should sign Oden to a two-year, minimum-level contract -- with a team option for

the second year — like it did in 2009 with Leon Powe, who’d had a history of knee injuries himself up through that point.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4392457

by AK1984 on Feb 21, 2012 9:51 AM PST reply actions  

I was at that game...there were some idiots in that crowd...also kept booing Rudy..

why? He wasn’t asking to be traded when he WAS…he’d decided he liked Portland. Some people are just jerks.

by Natsthecat on Feb 21, 2012 10:15 AM PST up reply actions  

to each his own

Can’t blame Greg because Blazer management let deadlines and drafts pass to sign a back up for 4+ years :(

just win baby !

by FrenchieFan on Feb 21, 2012 10:34 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

This is why I am against the theory of drafting for "need."

Take the best player on the board.

I still and will always support Greg, but it is frustrating especially when reading the response to that last question…

Batum Shakalaka

by WesMoneyy on Feb 21, 2012 10:07 AM PST reply actions  

Yes, center was a need

but many thought that Oden was also the best player available. Many GMs, many scouts, many writers. Obviously some others thought Durant would be a better player, but I can’t remember anyone thinking that Oden wouldn’t be fantastic at his position. That he was at a position of need made it an easier choice

scrappy

by Honka Playboy on Feb 21, 2012 4:28 PM PST up reply actions  

Probably not a fair question....

While Buchanan said this was not officially a “career-ending” injury, he also would not say affirmatively that it’s still possible for Oden to receive medical clearance to play basketball at some point in the future, when asked that question twice.

Buchanan is not a medical professional. Plus the surgery was just performed. I think even a medical professional is going to be hesitant to apply a definition of career ending at this point. Oden is still a young man, who concievably wants to play basketball again, I think the “hope” or chance is something a GM is not qualified to define- or take away.

I would think as Greg Oden rehabs, the physical realities or limitations will be more clearly defined. As well as where Greg Odens “head” is at. But it seems somewhat unfair to try to get Chad Buchanan to apply a definition of Career Ending to Greg Oden on the day of his surgery.

"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"

by Krang on Feb 21, 2012 10:18 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

Sorry...didn't mean...

for that quote to be crossed out…guess I learned how you do that.

"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"

by Krang on Feb 21, 2012 10:19 AM PST up reply actions  

Cursed I tell ya

Big Men in PDX just dont work,
I think the cold or rain or lack of floride in the water has an ill effect

by DonttrashCrash on Feb 21, 2012 10:29 AM PST reply actions  

His body is just not meant for basketball. I think Oden heals just fine but mechanically his knees are being thrashed whenever he walks.

I’m starting to think that hip surgery messed up Oden for life. The leg length thing is the cause of all of this.

by BRoyInThe4th on Feb 21, 2012 3:18 PM PST reply actions  

I feel bad for him

BUT WAIVE HIM ALREADY the experiment is OVER. Just him being off the team will benefit both sides. He will get his money and rehab anyway, and we’ll have an open roster spot to go get some bench guy that can at least step on a basketball court without blowing his knees up (not trying to be mean but clearly he can’t do it anymore). It benefits both sides. We could pick up Patty Mills with that spot who I’m sure would be better than Felton at this point.

by Leif Jensen on Feb 21, 2012 3:20 PM PST reply actions  

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