Is Nate McMillan In Trouble?
by Dave on Feb 15, 2012 1:46 PM PST
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PrintWhen a team suffers a humiliating defeat as the Trail Blazers did last night at the hands of the Washington Wizards speculation swirls around the head coach. Granted, invectives fly after every loss but the difference here is palpable. The atmosphere has changed from outrage to weary resignation, the difference between screaming before you see a train wreck and standing in stunned silence after. That's never a good sign for a coach.
Should Nate McMillan be closer to dismissal today than he was 24 hours ago? Possibly not. The Blazers played last night without LaMarcus Aldridge. Granted the lowly Wizards were the foe. The Blazers should have the talent to defeat that team even without Aldridge. They should have been able to compensate. But that's easier said than done. So much of Portland's attack revolves around Aldridge that the team would require a whole new training camp to get comfortable playing without him. Can you drive a stick shift? Most of us can, though it would take a little practice to get used to it again after years of driving automatic transmissions. Now try driving a stick after somebody cut off your right arm. That's what the Blazers were trying to do last night on the fly.
Furthermore, Ben quotes Gerald Wallace and Nicolas Batum saying last night's loss was not Nate McMillan's fault. It's funny, fans will read tea leaves, play recordings backwards, and consult hieroglyphic tomes to try and read in criticism against a coach. "Player X said blah blah...you can tell he means he hates the way Nate is coaching!" But when two of the team's star players say directly that the loss was not on McMillan, that'll be ignored or explained away.
Then again, last night still happened. And there's still that palpable fear in the air that the loss didn't change the team's trajectory but confirm where they were always headed.
Nate McMillan has been the victim of plenty of bad luck. Since he took over the team in 2005 he's never had a complete roster to work with. This summer's blitz to stock the backcourt with Raymond Felton and Jamal Crawford was just the latest attempt to fill gaping holes created by injury and misfortune. The pieces have been there at different times but never together in a way a coach could shape and prosper from. Save that single 54-28 year when his team won more games than any team that young ever had, Nate's tenure has been more about preventing total disaster and holding onto a winning attitude in the face of adversity than it has been about actually winning. He's done admirably well. The team has won and hasn't slipped into disaster...except last night. That's part of the chill running down Portland's collective spine. We haven't seen that kind of breakdown since the 2005-06, 21-win campaign. And even then it was more about talent than effort.
The other part of that story is that we've been through all of this before. You can say, "LaMarcus was missing last night" but that comes against the backdrop of Brandon Roy retiring this year, Roy being injured most of the last two years, Greg Oden being injured forever, Zach Randolph not being the player to lead this team, Martell Webster not having the talent to justify his draft position, and so on. Aldridge turning his ankle is a small thing, but it's the 152nd adversity, big or small, that has afflicted this team in the last few years. The first 150 times something happens out of a coach's control you tend to give him a pass. After that the excuse, though justified, starts to wear thin. That's human nature. "But Aldridge was out!" isn't enough to save the coach anymore, at least not automatically.
Also human nature is the belief that things are supposed to be better than they are. This is a quid pro quo for fan participation in sports. If your team isn't doing well and you feel they have no chance to improve you simply quit watching. Therefore by definition everybody who pays attention is also someone who believes in their heart of hearts that their team will get better. Reality doesn't always follow that assumption. Sometimes the talent isn't there or the circumstances aren't right. Most folks can't see it until long after the fact. When you carry the assumption that your team is very good and your eyes tell you that your team is playing relatively poorly, somebody has to take the rap for that. That "somebody" is usually the coach.
This is important because management, while certainly holding different perspective than the common fan, is not immune from this line of thinking. In some ways they're more invested in it, as they built the team. If your darling small forward draftee plays brilliantly but sporadically, if the point guard of your future is stinking up the floor, if the free agent you sweated and toiled to sign is busting out...whose fault is that? You believed in these guys or you wouldn't have acquired them at such effort and cost. Is your perception really that bad or could there be another reason? (Sidelong glance at the bench here...)
At some point, protests aside, even players begin to think this way. Yes, they take responsibility for their own actions but if they can't get over the hump no matter what, where do they turn? Are they going to say, "We suck, let's quit"? In the short term they do. That's when you start seeing efforts like the Washington game. But that can't last for long, else all of them would be bound to retire from the league. If they don't stink, where does the finger point? It doesn't take long to speculate that new leadership, a fresh voice, would benefit everyone. Whether the old voice is saying the right things is beside the point. If nobody's listening and following up with execution, the voice doesn't matter even if it's right.
Should Nate McMillan be in jeopardy? In objective terms, probably not. Subjectively, knowing how the human mind and the league work, probably. Coaches have been dismissed after far less struggle than Nate has been through. Coaches often get dismissed after horrific losses like we saw last night.
As I mentioned in last night's recap, the thing that really has me worried is the timing. The Blazers have Golden State on the road tonight, a tough place for them to play in the best of times, let alone on the second night of a back-to-back and either without Aldridge or with him limping. Nobody would be surprised to see a loss. Then Portland returns home for the surging Clippers on the third night of three in a row...again easily imaginable as a loss. At that point we're looking at three straight losses, perhaps fatigued blowouts, two at home. We're also looking back at heartbreaking losses to the Thunder and Mavericks...the first under extenuating circumstances, but again that card won't play for Nate. Then you have to consider the row of playoff-quality opponents to follow. We could be looking at a massive sinkhole of losses exacerbating the problem, driving coach farther away from fans, players, and management. If you covered up the names of coach and franchise and asked whether in this kind of situation your average coach is in danger the answer would be a definitive "Yes".
I'll admit I hate speculation like this. That's partly because I don't see a good alternative to Nate for the rest of the year. Whatever move you make it won't turn around this season, nor turn this group into contenders. Bernie Bickerstaff or Bob Ociepka wouldn't provide major departures from Nate's style. You could throw the reins to a young guy like Kaleb Canales and just let him loose, but I'm not sure the resulting turmoil in the locker room would give him a fair chance.
I also hate speculation like this because it's inherently unfair. It can't be answered. If the team says nothing it's seen as confirmation that they're displeased, letting all this speculation run wild. If the team gives their coach the dreaded "vote of confidence" it's even worse. Nobody survives those. Because the team can say nothing to quell or refute the speculation, I feel bad even advancing it.
Despite those qualms, I think it's fair to say that circumstances justify the speculation at this point. It's also fair to say that things could get much worse before they get better. The only thing that would solve it is the players banding together and playing amazing games against Golden State and the Clippers, coming up with two wins. That's the only way to silence this and protect their coach. Otherwise we're left wondering.
Coach McMillan may not be on the brink of getting fired exactly, but he's closer to that precipice right now than we've seen him. It'll be interesting to see how he, his players, and Portland management respond to this unprecedented situation.
--Dave (blazersub@gmail.com)
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Solution #1
Win this game tonight. If they band together and do that, all of this will hush up. But if we see poor efforts tonight and tomorrow, even if those efforts are mostly attributable to fatigue, this is going to blow up.
—Dave
Dave i'm one of the biggest fans around!
But tonights game vs Golden State on ESPN is a sure loss. Not only do they not play well against the Warriors, they very seldom play well on National TV. So solution #1 would be to try to win a game at home vs the Clippers. #2 would be to beat the Hawks.
they play the games for a reason
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I'm not saying we're likely to win
but we certainly don’t have no chance whatsoever
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Play the 2nds
Sit Camby, Wallace, and Felton. See what the bench brings for extended minutes. If it’s close in the 4th, Then make a game of it. Rest who ya got for the Clippers and maybe you got LMA back by then. Then play tough vs the Hawks and take it to the Lakers. Just a thought. Why drive em all into the ground?
If you give up one game to try to win the next
You could very easily lose both. Play each game to win as we come to them.
hg
by BBK on Feb 15, 2012 3:50 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
if you run em into the ground trying to win this game
Which you probbably will not do. You will certainly have a blowout loss tomorrow on your home court again. The team is already tired and i would be willing to bet you will be giving two games away if you push to win this game.
okay, make your check payable to...
Sending underprivileged kids to a Blazers game
Geriatric swagger!
by Respect_these_years on Feb 15, 2012 9:45 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I knew Nate's seat would get hotter when two things happened at BE...
1. More people rec comments recommending Nate’s departure than recommending continued support.
2. Dave makes a front-page post about his status.
Both have happened within a week. Very interesting.
It does feel like the team was underperforming even before Aldridge hurt his ankle. At some point, after this long of a tenure, Nate’s name was destined to come up. Sometimes players simply need a fresh voice. Is this the point? I have no idea. But I know changing the coach won’t make us contenders.
So, considering Nate has one year on his contract after the current one, I guess Blazer brass has to make the call: Do you think a change is necessary in the offseason? If the answer is increasingly “yes”, I could see them making a move before the offseason. But I suspect, since they have nobody in the wings to coach anyway, they’d probably let the short season end and make the call afterward.
I wrote this without seeing the headlines below this post
Wow at the report that there had been questions about Nate’s grip on the situation before last night.
the only other possible reason to change now rather than ride out the seaso
would be if management wanted to see the young guys play a lot more.
"But if Ding Dongs and prime rib were the path to NBA pivot stardom we'd all be wearing the uniform." -Dave
you and I both know that management = owner
"But if Ding Dongs and prime rib were the path to NBA pivot stardom we'd all be wearing the uniform." -Dave
And replace him with who?
It’s not like Monty is still on the bench. Anyone think Bickerstaff or Ocepika will succeed where Nate is failing? Are we really going to get Phil Jackson or jerry Sloan, and even if we could, are they the right guy for the Blazers, working under no GM and PA?
Honestly, I blame everything on Felton’s poor play. Really. It all flows from that.
At this point, I don't much care...
as long as they get rid of him. Larry Miller needs something to do…
Bickerstaff
Lets not forget that Bickerstaff is the one who used his first draft pick with the Charlotte Bobcats on Raymond Felton. Bickerstaff was the Bobcat’s GM and head coach at the time. I highly doubt he’s going to be the catalyst to bring Felton to the bench…
If one believes that Felton is the cause of this, then Bickerstaff clearly isn’t the answer.
Interesting info about Bernie....no question in my mind now who was behind getting Felton
and getting rid of Miller.
Ughh…
Honestly, if he's fired midseason, his replacement won't matter
since we’d basically be punting on the season anyway.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
Unless the new guy lets some of the players we want to keep
Develop bad habits. Toxic locker room situations would not be good.
"Wide, girthy. Just like a Rhino. Sometimes my horns are visible."
Well, yeah. But that's easy to avoid and easy to fix.
Look at what Keith Smart has done with that crew of knuckleheads assembled and trained by Westphal and Petrie.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
To be honest, Keith Smart isn't the long-term answer in Sacramento.
As I see it, Smart is a two-year stopgap at head coach until the franchise gets a brand new area or relocates elsewhere. Y’know, it kind of reminds me of when Sam Presti hired P.J. Carlesimo during the final Sonic years.
What I really don't get in Sacramento is the maloofs' refusal to sell the team
They’ve been saying that even if they move the team they want to keep owning it, but in that case, I don’t know what city will want a team owned by them.
"Wide, girthy. Just like a Rhino. Sometimes my horns are visible."
Every city interested in an NBA team will accept them with open arms and pocketbooks.
I still expect them to run to Anaheim.
Rumor has it
they will wind up in Seattle.
Si equum mortuum flagellēs, non celerium currat.
by EngineerScotty on Feb 15, 2012 3:38 PM PST up reply actions
That's more speculation than rumor
I haven’t heard any hints the Maloofs want anything other than the big money in Anaheim.
by Timmay! on Feb 15, 2012 3:40 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, but they've been horrible owners, and haven't they gone bankrupt or something?
I’d really like to see them sell the team to more capable ownership, no matter where they end up. I still hope the team stays.
"Wide, girthy. Just like a Rhino. Sometimes my horns are visible."
I'd much prefer they stay in Sacramento, whose fans have been very loyal.
I hate seeing loyal fans stomped on.
"I still expect them to run to Anaheim."
As do I, for the Maloof family still wants to experience its first NBA Finals appearance since 1981.
How about NO Hornets to Seattle? I'd rather that anyway.
There is a guy in Seattle who is working with the city, bought land etc. to get an NBA and possibly NHL team into Seattle. I think his name is Hansen.
I didn't know that
Now that I checked, I see they owned the Rockets. I guess they have their Reason, though it’s not a good one if they plan on continuing to be horrible owners.
"Wide, girthy. Just like a Rhino. Sometimes my horns are visible."
Oh, yeah, that's exactly what I meant
I’m just saying that the interim coach only needs to be someone who can manage the personalities like Smart has in Sacto. It may not be the most apt comparison, since I don’t follow Sacramento very closely, but it was the first thing that came to my mind.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
He's a player's coach, sure.
But managing combustible personalities is only a small fraction of the job.
AK's right
It’s just that the X’s and O’s, player development, etc really only matters for guys who are in a long term situation. It’s not important if you’re tanking for a season, and it probably even helps to have someone who’s an otherwise crappy coach.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
Even in the interim, there's definitely a dearth of internal hire candidates.
Could see someone come out of nowhere like Kaleb Canales get a the interim tag, but he’d be replaced by a full-time hire in June.
Also of note is that both Chad Buchanan and Mike Born’s contracts — which were extended two years when Kevin Pritchard was dismissed in 2010 — are set to expire this June.
I'd much rather keep Kaleb as an assistant than lose him after a short run.
Then again, most new coaches want to bring in their own coaches.
fungible? Meaning Kaleb is the same as McMillan? In what way is Kaleb fungible.
I think Kaleb may actually be smarter than McMillan…and eventually a much better coach.
there are hundreds of Kalebs running around that you could pick up at minimal cost.
i keep dancing on my own.
Really? Every Caleb I know spells his name with a "c"...
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
by HailOden! on Feb 15, 2012 7:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Before Kaleb Canales, there was Joe Prunty.
Before Prunty, there was some guy I’ve already forgot.
Basically, the point to take away is that those guys are a dime a dozen.
I’d like for one of two things to happen, the sooner the better:
1) Make a trade for Steve Nash and go for broke in effort to win a playoff series this year, or
2) Start the rebuild now. Fire Nate, make Kaleb Canales interim coach, shop Wallace and Camby for picks, play Nolan and EWill a lot, semi tank the rest of the season, hire a youngish up and coming assistant as coach in the offseason and go from there.
by jksnake99 on Feb 15, 2012 1:59 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
as long as option 1 doesn't involve losing Nic, I agree
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 15, 2012 2:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah if they go for Nash, they can't give up a lot
The Blazers won’t want to give up their first round picks, or any useful players. So it’s going to be tough to make a trade. I mean, do you want to give up your first rounder in a deep draft for a Nash rental that might, if you’re lucky, get you into the second round?
I could be talked into losing Matthews
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
the trade would have to be something to the effect of Felton, Matthews and a pick for Nash and Robin Lopez. Maybe EWill or Smith too.
Can't see Phoenix wanting Wesley Matthews.
More likely, it’d take a deal such as Camby/Felton/E-Will/Nolan for Nash/Childress/Lopez.
Not worth the bad contracts
We don’t have a contender, and we’re better off with the cap space in free agency and the young players, even if we have to sit through another three horrible months of Felton.
"Wide, girthy. Just like a Rhino. Sometimes my horns are visible."
by YoniRap on Feb 15, 2012 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Which is why both clubs would need to be reeeeeeally motivated to do a deal
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
That's the thing about Wes
You gotta sell high on a player. And Wes is currently at the lowest of his Blazer career. If you think this is somehow not rock bottom, get out now. But if it’s not, you are trading a possible better asset in the future.
I promise this isn’t meant as specific to you, but in general fans tend to want to keep players at their peak, and sell them at their lowest. For a team, that’s the worst practice possible, since most other teams will be trying to sell their assets at the best possible time.
So if Wes has any chance of turning it around during this contract, this is a bad time to sell. We don’t want a rental of Nash just to watch Wes and a draft pick blossom in Phoenix.
I can’t really imagine Wes blossoming. Your point is legit in general, and I could surely imagine Wes returning to last year’s form, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if this will become the default for him. He’s just not that talented.
His step backward has been surprising for me
I didn’t expect him to take another step forward, but he looks awkward a lot of the time now.
Yeah if the team thinks he’s not likely to rebound, then get out of the contract now if you can. If you can use him to get an expiring Nash, bonus.
I was surprised he was named as a starter again this year with Batum on the bench.
Actually, it seems to me he’s not running as comfortably in recent games as at the beginning of the season; unless I’m just imagining it, which is certainly possible, I suspect a lower leg or foot injury is being covered up.
He may just not be doing as well without Miller on the floor to guide him.
Matthews did well in Utah where there was a SYSTEM. Miller was a floor general who told people where to go. Felton OTOH seems to be a fly by the seat of your big butt pants kind of guy and Matthews may just not do as well in that kind of system…
And Crawford…who I think has been doing as well as he can playing out of position…is not a point guard. He is certainly not going to help guide Matthews either.
Matthews needs more direction. Oh and he also needs discipline. As in “if you don’t defend, have a seat next to me on the bench.” kind of discipline that Sloan was famous for doling out.
That’s my take anyway.
by Natsthecat on Feb 15, 2012 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
wes needed miller
so now he is exposed with the free-wheeling felton as the point.
Even if he returns to last year's form
I’d trade him for Nash, and consider it a good deal.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
totally agree
it’s more a product of the good Wes being near his ceiling in my perspective. The Wes from this year certainly hasn’t been the Wes we’ve grown to know and love, but at the same time I’d love to see Nash as a Blazer, I’d love for EWill to get an opportunity, and I feel like Wes is a reasonably replacable cog…no disrespect to him, it’s just the nature of the position.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
and this is absolutely spot on (one of my pet peeves to be honest)
in general fans tend to want to keep players at their peak, and sell them at their lowest. For a team, that’s the worst practice possible, since most other teams will be trying to sell their assets at the best possible time.
But that’s not necessarily my intention with Wes, you just have to give up something for Nash.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
The Blazers have a rich history of exactly that
Especially during the Whitsett years. Dale Davis, Shawn Kemp, Steve Smith, Derek Anderson, hell, even Gerald Wallace will look that way a few years from now.
Mostly the “buying high” part.
I'd say that the "selling low" part is also a problem
look no further than Rudy Fernandez on that one.
Whether it’s buying high or selling low though, it’s not optimizing the value either way and that hurts. Over time optimizing the value of your transactions can make you a championship caliber roster. Not doing that means you are standing in your own way by not taking advantage of opportunities when you should.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I don't think you can fault the Blazers for that one.
The jury is still out on Rudy. When he has a complete, solid season and does even average in the playoffs, let me know. Our only other valid choice given the criteria would have been to trade him after his rookie year, which we probably should have done, in hindsight.
On the other hand, we turned Dante Cunningham into Gerald Wallace somehow, and Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw into Marcus Camby, so it’s not like we strike out every time.
this is my point exactly
Our only other valid choice given the criteria would have been to trade him after his rookie year, which we probably should have done, in hindsight.
his optimal trade value passed us by, and then he was moved for a late 1st rnd draft pick that facilitated the Felton-Miller trade that hasn’t worked.
I like the Wallace and Camby trades, but we’re swimming against a nasty current here due to injuries as it is…our margin for error was miniscule and it appears we went outside of it
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
A part of me thinks Nash isn't being traded, because there is more value in keeping him at this point.
Compared to what any team would offer.
by Timmay! on Feb 15, 2012 2:24 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Pretty much
Retooling can take on a lot of different forms – but if McMillan goes, the season goes.
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Feb 15, 2012 2:08 PM PST up reply actions
The nut of the issue is point two. I think any dithering about whether Nate is a good coach (he’s a decent coach) and whether he’s done enough to lose his job is beside the point. He needs to go because he’s the last visible face of this incarnation of the team, which desperately needs a dramatic overhaul. It’s not his fault that the Roy/Oden/Aldridge dynasty never materializes, but he’s still a necessary casualty of that, since the basketball ops side really has to have a coherent front between coaching and personnel.
i keep dancing on my own.
by atomiccafe on Feb 15, 2012 2:35 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
And with a new GM should bring with it a new head coach.
Amazing to think that Nate McMillan is a holdover from the PatterNash era.
Coming into the season we knew the Blazers needed at least one more big guy up front, that Felton was new to the team at PG, that there was no proven back-up PG, that Wallace + Batum was a pretty impossible situation, and that they were one all-star short of really making a serious run at things.
After a bright start to the season, surprising to me at least, those issues started to assert themselves, which isn’t surprising at all.
Re-setting from the LMA-Roy-Oden plan to… something else isn’t going to be easy. I don’t expect to get to whatever the Next Plan is without dipping into the lottery for at least a year or two.
Long-term are the Blazers better with McMillan? Sure. Right now? It doesn’t matter. And for Nate, if the Blazers let him go, a year off with pay while he jaws with the TNT or ESPN dudes wouldn’t be such a bad outcome, because he’ll be able to find another coaching job easily, from all we’ve heard.
I suspect Nate is angry or disgusted with the front office/ownership:
Given only Kurt Thomas, Craig Smith, and Chris Johnson as back up big men is not sufficient. McGee and Vesely dominated them last night.
How different is this than last season when we lost at Washington during that horrific road trip?
I recall a frustrated and out-of-answers Nate McMillan with a local sports media speculating on his termination.
That team came together and finished strong, turning an uber mediocre start into a solid year.
This gets interesting if the team can’t turn it around…but I’m still hoping they do.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I was thinking about this scenario from last year too.
The media feasts on this. I think much of this Nate stuff is just the media machine churning. Hopefully the team will turn the corner like it did last year.
yeah remembering that as well
I’m wondering if timing might be the silver bullet this time though. This next stretch might have the ability to put the nail in the coffin…especially with Aldridge less than 100%.
The difference was two-fold:
The Road Trip from Hell was followed by a) LMA getting his Beast Mode button pushed and b) the Gerald Wallace trade.
If those two things hadn’t happened, I think we’d probably be looking at a much different team, and maybe a different coaching situation.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
maybe it's time for Nic to hit his beast mode button
if he can get on the court for 30+mpg consistently like he should be that is
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Yeah, if Nic goes Le Beast and we make a trade for real PG or a two-way front court player
Nate’s probably safe.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
Nic?
We keep hearing Nic is the ???? of the future. How can this happen if he doesn’t start? I wish we still had Jerryd, but coach didn’t like him. I wish we had Andre, but coach didn’t like him. When Rudy was hot, he didn’t get run. If Nic doesn’t get run, he will want to leave. Coaching?
he will start
I don’t think Wallace is long for this team
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Over the years, I have been a Nate supporter for the most part. Mainly it was because there weren't any other good options out there. But this season, I'm thinking that Nate's time has come and gone.
The team doesn’t seem to respond to him anymore. He’s had a good run as the Blazer’s coach, but it feels like it is time for the team to move on. Hire a new GM, let him pick his guy to be coach, and get a good player in the draft lottery next year. This season is toast. Things aren’t going to improve with the status quo anymore. I just hope that they don’t bring in Jeff Van Gundy. Can’t stand that guy.
A change at the top might be needed at this point.
"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez
I've been openly critical of McMillan
But, I have always stopped short of calling for his replacement – and I still do. A coaching change right now would do nothing to help this team, this year.
If they fire McMillan, then the Blazers should accompany that move with some retooling. That retooling wouldn’t happen right away – but the Blazers need to entrust team building to one person and let that person shape both the coaching staff and the roster.
My one great fear, this season, is that Nate’s “player” management has alienated his squad. A coaching change might be invertible if the players no longer trust him.
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Feb 15, 2012 2:06 PM PST reply actions 5 recs
I agree with you..
Firing Nate isn’t going to make Felton a better shooter or make Wesley Clyde Drexler-like in the open court. Firing Nate won’t make Gerald Wallace the same player on the road as he is at home. Coaching isn’t the problem in general and like you, I don’t agree with everything that Nate does, but firing him won’t fix the problem.
Fire Nate is the easy way out...
…. it does not fix what the core of the problem is. We have no GM and Chad B.’s hands are tied and Larry Miller, though a very shrewd in sports business as seen from his past ventures, still is not the same as having a GM.
We need to get a GM who has complete autonomy and works closely with Nate and not PA and his cronies
by RoshanBellavara on Feb 15, 2012 2:09 PM PST reply actions
The Blazer organization has a lot of problems....
getting rid of Nate would only solve one of them. But, you’ve got to start some place!
Yep. The Blazers laid an egg last night.
In the hen you have an assumption that your team is very good and your eyes tell you that your team is playing relatively poorly,
#52--------I believe in Greg Oden
Haha! I thought it was kind of appropriate, to tell the truth. Sorry you changed it. ;p
#52--------I believe in Greg Oden
Whether Felton talks or keeps quiet, his goose is cooked.
by AK1984 on Feb 15, 2012 3:40 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Don't say that!
He’ll eat the whole darn thing at half-time if he knows it’s ready.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
but if he keeps talking it makes it difficult to shove more cupcakes in his mouth
I’m sure he’ll find a way though.
Disclaimer: There is a high chance this comment contains sarcasm, so please just chill out, relax, and have a nice l@ker hating day.
But the goose is already cooked
Eating or not eating cupcakes can’t change. And once the goose is cooked, it must be eaten.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
That story definitely made me nostalgic
for earlier in the season when Felton was effusively praised on BE for being willing to talk and call out Westbrook.
Those were the days
http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/11/24/1172468/jerryd-bayless-is-just-as-good-as
For those who weren’t around at the time.
And sadly, I expected more out of that thread
at least from looking back at it. It didn’t have nearly the quantity of back and forth or personal affront of a good ULC Bayless thread from back in the day.
Definitely a good one. Those were heady times on BE
I was a young pup back then, still lending some credibility to David Berri of all people.
I think by far my favorite post from the Bayless days had to be this 700 comment behemoth, though, not only for it’s sheer size, but also for the lengthy digression into politics and political theory in the middle of the thread.
Leave Nate be
Nothing changes this year unless some miraculous trade occurs and Oden comes back. Two changes I’d like to see happen far more than a new coach;
1. no more Felton
I know it’s been said a million times but watching the guy play has just become a bummer and it emphasizes the importance of point guard play and how it affects the team as a whole. He’s sluggish, the team is sluggish.
2. good times on the bench
gone are the days of Patty Mills, Roy, Pendegraph and good chemistry
Remember when it looked like the guys on the bench were having a damn fine time watching the game and rallying toward wins? and Pendegraph was freestyling before the game? Maybe the team just got old but now it looks as though they’re not having a nice time, win or loss. I remember a couple games ago we were winning and they zoomed in on GW on the bench and he looked miserable.
good PG play and good atmosphere would work wonders – even for Nate
just a thought
You mean
the game he took an elbow to the back of the head?
by Countless512 on Feb 15, 2012 3:50 PM PST up reply actions
good point
but doesn’t he take an elbow to the back of the head every game…Yeah, bad example now that I think about it
Good post above!
I think Nate should go if they have a new GM in mind. Ownership has changed the chemistry of the team as much as injuries but it’s their job to go forward. I think Nate is a great person and decicated but his DNA can’t seem to break through this time.Just firing him witthout a plan might gain nothing. I would like to see the young players get a chance if Nate can break outside his box though!
by Idahoblazerfan on Feb 15, 2012 6:24 PM PST up reply actions
Does anyone notice the difference between when Nate lets them play, ie using our talents available and playing up tempo, and winning? Or his constant slow down wait til there’s one second left to shoot, and losing? Or when we play stall ball at the end of games in a let’s not lose manner, than grabbing the game by the neck and killing off the opponent. For being a sarge, he coaches scared, and in the playoffs gets circles ran around him by good coaches? He’s taken us as far as he can, but let’s move on.
If anything, this team is too fast-paced this season.
This is why I’d be down with hiring Mike Fratello, who’d bring the team’s possessions per 48 minutes back down into the 80s.
Trade Nate for Deron Williams!
Come on, let's all hug it out.
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Feb 15, 2012 2:27 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I've been wanting Nate gone for a few years
His horrific offensive execution, undeserved reputation as a defensive stalwart and favoring of inferior players to superior ones have left a bad taste in my mouth for some time. That said, I didn’t have high hopes for the team this year in the wake of the loss of Roy and the shortened offseason, and I think Nate did quite well to start the year. If the team continues to look rudderless, though, it may be time to move on.
For all of my Nate bashing
I dont see how firing him mid season is going to fix this season or change the fundamental problems with the organization
by southern oregon on Feb 15, 2012 2:28 PM PST reply actions
That's similar to my feeling
Makes more sense to clean house in the offseason, and bring in a new GM with a fresh long-term perspective.
But at the same time, if they’ve made the call, and Nate doesn’t want to be a lame-duck, it wouldn’t surprise me. Maybe Chad would take over the team, KP-style.
Yeah, let's not forget
That when we fired Mo and had KP take over for the end of the season marked the only time that Telfair looked like a passable NBA player. Interim coaches tend to have a whole lot less pressure on them to produce wins now and can focus on more player development.
Of course, I don’t think it would make a huge difference this year, but something to think about.
This is a great idea!
Hype up our mediocre young talent and trade them all at the end of the season leaving only Wes, LMA, and K. Thomas!
Brilliant!
#7
It was an illusion
And based on that illusion, the Blazers passed over Chris Paul for Martell Webster.
Letting players put up gaudy offensive stats in a game of nellieball is not a good way to evaluate or develop talent.
Si equum mortuum flagellēs, non celerium currat.
by EngineerScotty on Feb 15, 2012 3:46 PM PST up reply actions
Passing up on CP3 and Deron Williams
was moronic because they were far superior to Telfair even in that brief stretch. No degree of competent coaching is going to make up for that level of incompetent management.
Exactly.
But the point is, Telfair looked like he was going to match the hype in those 27 games, and based on that Nasherson annointed him the PG of the future, told Damon Stoudamire to hit the road, and passed up both Paul and Deron for Webster.
About the only good thing to come out of Telfair is that he was traded for the pick that was traded for Brandon Roy.
Si equum mortuum flagellēs, non celerium currat.
by EngineerScotty on Feb 15, 2012 3:53 PM PST up reply actions
Well, it would be pretty disappointing if a new coach came in
And CJ started to look solid, and after somehow lucking into the top pick we decided we were set at the big spot and passed on Anthony Davis or Andre Drummond, but I would hope we’ve learned from our mistakes.
I think it would be pretty difficult to totally screw up the number one pick this year.
You’d have to be the clippers or something
"Wide, girthy. Just like a Rhino. Sometimes my horns are visible."
Which player do you think will end up being the darko?
"Wide, girthy. Just like a Rhino. Sometimes my horns are visible."
That was 2003.
2004 was a toss-up at #1 between Dwight Howard and Emeka Okafor.
I’ve got Andre Drummond in the Howard role, while Anthony Davis is in the Okafor role.
Plus, Chad Buchanan has more pressing front office duties at this moment.
Mike Born is just the director of NBA scouting, so his duties could be passed off onto Bill Branch.
At any rate, though, all of them — along with Steve Rosenberry — should get cleared out in June, as a complete overhaul is in order.
{GULP}
Do you clean the house before you sell it? I mean seriously, clean out management and clean out most of the players and what are you left with? An NBA brand, a star, flexible spending, and draft picks! Anyone want to build a franchise from nearly the ground up?
#7
I didn't think there was any concrete data behind it
just a lot of conjecture
Disclaimer: There is a high chance this comment contains sarcasm, so please just chill out, relax, and have a nice l@ker hating day.
I was mostly tongue in cheek with that comment...
Has there been something more recent reported other than the occasional (annual) chatter about it?
#7
Nahh nothing concrete, just lots of speculation without much behind it
Mostly based on health issues and random quotes that could be misinterpreted out of context.
That's what I read a while back, too.
In regards to that, I would say my speculation actually has more legs!
#7
My post entitled "is Paul Allen planning to sell the Blazrers"
from a few days ago was certainly conjecture. It’s based on a gut feeling I have and further based on what I think are two critical issues:
1) Not filling the GM position may, in and of itself, not signal that Allen is thinking about selling the team. However, it’s very hard to understand why he hasn’t filled it with the best available talent (never mind the “he hasn’t found the guy he wants” routine because it just doesn’t make sense to try to operate a team without a GM). For me, it’s as much that this may signal a lack of interest in the team on Allen’s part
2) Allen’s statement that he doesn’t have the stomach for a re-building process. Well, folks, that’s just what he got on his plate right now-a re-building process.
3) Sticking with Nate this long doesn’t make sense to me. This belies Allen’s statements that he is committed to building a winning team. Nate has never won anything and I don’t think he ever will. In a sense, keeping Nate year after year isn’t all that different than not hiring a GM-just two different versions of Allen putting up with a void that ends up in mediocrity.
Circumstantial evidence, to be sure, but I’ve got this gut feeling…
Remember, Born was the associate head coach on those KP-coached Kansas City Knights.
Plus, Born had experience as an assistant coach in the D-League for the Huntsville Flight when Pritchard spent his two years in San Antonio as a front office minion.
Especially during a lock-out shortend season in which many teams share similar problems.
Take a look at the standings and you’ll see that there is a lot of bad basketball being played this year.
Right, this franchise is currently mired in mediocrity.
I, for one, don’t see any easy way out of it for you guys.
Oh well, at least that asinine Mavs comp can finally die.
I'm pretty sure he's never considered himself part of "us"
"Wide, girthy. Just like a Rhino. Sometimes my horns are visible."
he's not even a groupie
he doesn’t like the music but he hangs out with the groupies after the concert
by blazerblaze on Feb 15, 2012 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
You don't want the groupies no one else wants
you might catch something, or OD.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
Interesting to see how this unfolds...
I’m not for replacing Nate this season. That’s too easy. But these guys need a gut check from the inside. They need someone one the team (and not Nate) to chew some ass. I’ve said it over and over this season. There are no killer attitudes on this squad. Good guys and good players but not enough leadership to hold each other accountable and show that they care.
Quite frankly there are only 3 guys qualified to say much, in my opinion, and by that I mean have enough experience/ability to warrant respect from the rest of the team. #1 is LMA but he’s simply not vocal enough to get on guys. He should be the angriest because he is in his prime and stuck in neutral in regards to where the team is going. #2 is Camby. He’s probably the most fiery personality and garners the most respect in the locker room. He could emulate what Juwan Howard did a couple years ago but he just doesn’t seem to get too bent out of shape about anything. #3 is Wallace but again he’s not vocal and leads more by his actions and not his words. Thomas and Crawford could fill the role we need too since no one is likely to challenge them but they are too passive.
I want to hear about a guy throwing chairs and knocking over the water cooler. I want to know they care because right now it doesn’t feel that way.
#7
As I re-read my comment I thought of this...
is this what you get when you throw a bunch of one-year contracts, end of career guys, and rookies together? The sense that they are in this together has been said repeatedly by the players but their actions and body language haven’t really shown it. Outside of LMA and Wes, who truly has a vested interest in this team and not just their next contract? Not that we’re seeing a lot of selfish play but if they care enough to win, then they need to get on each other a little bit. And just perhaps start playing for those next contracts…otherwise, most these guys won’t be in the NBA next year…
#7
I've been waiting for a ...
“Blazers to hold players only meeting” announcement for some time.
"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez
There was one like a month ago
if I’m not mistaken.
The constant stream of games
really makes the season feel more than a month and a half old. All this time just runs together for me.
the season is only a month and a half old!?
…well shoot. I’ve got fan fatigue already
Disclaimer: There is a high chance this comment contains sarcasm, so please just chill out, relax, and have a nice l@ker hating day.
It's been insane. I'm just tired from the GDT's at this point
I audibly groaned when I saw the upcoming schedule.
I've been waiting for ANOTHER players only meeting...
one in which there is yelling and screaming and perhaps even Ray Felton running out of it crying…
#7
link?
Not that I don’t believe you but I just hear that it was ‘spirited’ are something along those lines….
#7
All Freeman noted was...
the Blazers on Monday “got after it” during what players called a “strenuous” and “intense” practice.
So I may have interpreted more into that than was there.
During this season
players only meeting = group nap.
—Dave
by Dave on Feb 15, 2012 11:59 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Not Nate's fault that Felton stinks, Wes hasn't gotten it going..
Wallace can’t play on the road, Camby is old, Roy, Oden are finished, etc. That said, this is a vet team and they can figure out how to turn it around.
Nate Just SUX
Look how he has destroyed any new talent, especially at the PG! Nolan, Patty and Armon, all treated like garbage. Its like he is living in the past and any that up and coming PG is a threat!! I remember last year that everytime Patty was hot, he pulled him. Armon, no love at all and Nolan no chance at all. If I was a draftee, the last coach I would play for is fat McMuffin. Maybe that is why he continues to play Falon? Anyway, in my opinion he has proved to be nothing more than a second rate hack.
you lost me two lines in
Nate Just SUX
Look how he has destroyed any new talent
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 15, 2012 2:48 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Bottom Line
Sorry….. My point is that Mc Muffin has no talent when it come to developing players. He is a one dimensional coach. Either you are a star or get out of my face. Without Roy, McFatty is nothing.
what about Aldridge?
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Travis Outlaw hasn't play well since he left Portland.
Nate got the most out of him..
Travis Outlaw is one of Nate's biggest success stories
But Brandon Roy’s role in Travis’ success shouldn’t be forgotten.
The list of All-Star caliber point guard who have prospered once leaving Nate's system:
[crickets]
Si equum mortuum flagellēs, non celerium currat.
by EngineerScotty on Feb 15, 2012 3:22 PM PST up reply actions
The only PG we've had in the past six years
who was better than “meh” has been Andre Miller.
Other than that:
Sebastian Telfair: Why-is-he-even-still-in-the-league lousy.
Jarrett Jack: Bench player at best:
Steve Blake: Good utility player, worked well opposite Roy or other ball-dominating SG. Other than that, meh.
Sergio Rodriguez: Hot dog who can’t shoot, out of the NBA.
Jerryd Bayless: Tweener.
Patty Mills: Potentially decent change-of-pace guard, but not starter-level talent.
Armon Johnson: Doesn’t appear to be an NBA player.
Nolan Smith: Still a rookie, so I won’t write him off yet, but has done nothing so far to merit the pick.
Felton: Fat and careless. Doesn’t appear to realize he’s in a contract year.
Come to think of it. In 2004, many Blazer fans were hating on Damon Stoudamire. But are ANY of the PGs we’ve had since better than the Mouse was in his prime? No.
Si equum mortuum flagellēs, non celerium currat.
by EngineerScotty on Feb 15, 2012 3:33 PM PST up reply actions
IF you narrow it down from that list...
It’s the guys we DID NOT draft that had the most talent…Miller then Blake and then (but not now) Felton…
#7
Good catch
Si equum mortuum flagellēs, non celerium currat.
by EngineerScotty on Feb 15, 2012 3:41 PM PST up reply actions
I think he's in trouble
I don’t think what’s happening is his fault though. Even the bad effort from the players could easily be a function of fatigue or too much time with the same coach. Some of the screaming people are doing about rotations is no big deal. Last night showed a bit of that.
This season there simply isn’t enough practice time to get guys settled comfortably into different lineups. There isn’t enough practice time to get rookies or deep bench guys up to speed.
We have enough talent to be competitive if our guys can consistently play with energy. That’s how we’ve been getting by. This season throws that out the window though. Without the ability to out hustle the other team our roster is pretty meh talent wise.
I don't think firing Nate would make us worse
so I guess that speaks pretty poorly of Nate
The tensions are so high because the stakes are so low!
worse than losing to the Wiz? There's no such thing
worse than 15-14? (Remember we were 14-14 through 28 last year before ending 48-34)
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Also, not worth firing Nate this season
It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense trying to find a coach this season when we don’t even have a GM. Let him go in the off season. A new coach isn’t going to do us any good this season anyway.
Agreed...But
If we continue to lose and have not chance for the play offs…..The sooner we get rid of the bum the better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't think McMillan is at risk of losing his job honestly.
More likely, Paul Allen will be willing to tank this season like the Spurs did after they lost David Robinson for a season. Trade for prospects & draft picks. Best case we find some awesome gem of a prospect by giving them major time or we have a better chance at #1 overall !
"We gotta get this $#!^ together guys!" - Phil
I think
Nate is behind the move to move miller and get felton an Crawford. He is the Sarge, you honestly think Buchanan is making any choices. I think this is why Nate is so flustered, the team he wanted, veterans is floundering. His chioce to not play Batum makes him look like a fool as well. He doubled down on felton and Crawford now he is running scared.
...
Nate is behind the move to move miller and get felton an Crawford.
So was Paul Allen and Larry Miller. Otherwise, it wouldn’t have happened. I’m sure they are all flustered. Especially since it’s quite obvious that the player’s are underperforming…
#7
Didn't LaMarcus lobby hard for Jamal Crawford to come play for PDX too?
I vaguely remember LA tweeted a request for Portland fans to show some love to Crawford during his charity game. That happened right? Not sure, but if it did, It’s a curious case of be careful of what you wish for.
There honestly weren't a lot of good alternatives at that point
I really don’t hold it against the Blazers for signing Crawford this season.
Yeah, I was "meh" about it, but curious how it'd turn out too.
It’s still a “meh” signing to me.
I'm really not too bothered in general by the past off-season's signings
There was a short amount of time, and not a lot of options in our price range. We made due for a transition season, and any playoff success was a total bonus.
I went into the season with pretty balanced expectations. Worth noting that even with my expectations, I still believe the team is underperforming.
I had to step back the last couple of days and recall my jubilation when the lockout was officially over.
I was just happy to have basketball again. Even last night’s loss didn’t upset me too much. The team situation is still entertaining, albeit in a different way.
they are underperforming
our record should be better than it is, but it may be too late at this point if our team is resigned to circle the drain
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Most of the league/media thought we did quite well with our signing if I recall...
and really only one hasn’t panned out. That being Felton. I can forgive Crawford because he’s playing out of position most of the time. Thomas and C. Smith have been just fine…
#7
Crawford is not the issue
We dreamed of a guy like him or Jason Terry when we had Rudy fumbling around, running off screens and missing…or worse, being afraid to shoot at all.
Crawford avg will creep up and he will hit big shots…plus he can get his own shot and get inot the paint….
That's what I'm saying when I say I can forgive Crawford...
but he’s getting lumped into the guard play issues and quite frankly hasn’t been very productive. I can forgive him because he’s playing out of position. Felton has no excuse…
#7
Anybody who thought Crawford would equal Jason Terry has got themselves ...
to blame. There was no excuse for buying into that dumb, misguided comparison.
And the media was wrong.
Just like how the media was wrong to write off San Antonio this season or sell Dallas short last season.
I just hate to see a rebuild with LMA in his prime...
and I suspect so does ownership and management. Allen has been quoted as saying he wasn’t much up for a rebuild.
#7
yeah sad to see even one year of LMA's prime wasted
We would turn into the Toronto Raptors. It would give Aldridge a chance to help lead the team up from the ruins again though.
I'm sure that is NOT what Aldridge wants to do...
It would give Aldridge a chance to help lead the team up from the ruins again though.
It’s one thing when your a rookie or and up-and-comer to build with the team that drafted you but I think the NBA will become more fluid in terms of player movement with the new CBA and shorter contracts. If PDX isn’t close by the end of LMA’s contract, he’ll find better options for a championship much like Bosh and LeBron last year and Howard and D-Will this year…
#7
yeah I still see Dallas in his future
sad to say. Or even the Spurs.
Tony Parker with Aldridge and Ginolbli would have been stunning.
If
If we can just dip one year(No more then that, because we don’t own our 2013 draft pick) into the lottery and get a great player, then coming raging back with a core of Aldridge, _________(Insert whoever you have in mind here) and Batum.
As Jeremy Lin proved there are players on the bench of NBA rosters that are capable of being really good in the NBA. It just takes the right situation. The Felton/Crawford situation failed, its time to move past it & see if some young players can step up, if not we have a better shot at #1.
"We gotta get this $#!^ together guys!" - Phil
Yeah. See if you can get more draft picks for some of those veterans
"Wide, girthy. Just like a Rhino. Sometimes my horns are visible."
Plenty of guys who've had brief stretches here
and gotten no PT/opportunity have turned out to be viable NBA players. Von Wafer, Anthony Tolliver, Josh McRoberts; none are anything more than occasionally effective role players, but all have jockeyed themselves into rotations elsewhere.
While they've played decently, none of them have cracked the rotation of a playoff team, have they?
I’ve lost track. Josh is with the Lakers, but not really doing much the last I saw.
Oh and I meant beyond Von's one year with the Rockets of course.
He went boom after defenses caught up to him and his ego took over.
Von was in Boston last year
and is in Orlando now. But really, I don’t think there’s much of a stretch between someone like Anthony Tolliver starting/being a 6th man for Minnesota and being a 7th-9th man for a playoff team, and McRoberts is obviously going to be in the rotation for a playoff team come season’s end.
Not that I think much of these guys, but they were pretty Babbitt-esque with us. I’m really of the opinion that essentially any player in the NBA can turn themselves into a contributor given the right roster situation/coaching. Probably not to the point of Lin, but we certainly haven’t been getting much out of these end of benchers, outside of Patty last year, I guess.
it's one of my issues with Nate
He won’t play the youngsters and unproven players unless he trusts them, but he won’t trust them until they’ve played.
Chicken, meet egg
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I really dislike Tolliver's game
Wafer’s too, just less if you can believe that. McBob on the other hand seems like a useful asset.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
The future first-rounder owed to Charlotte is protected from 2013 through 2015.
It’s not unprotected until 2016.
Thanks for the clarification
So a one year lottery dip in a very deep draft, then back to trying our best to contend until 2016. If we haven’t won a WCF/Championship by then we will likely lose Aldridge in free agency & have the complete rebuild. I’m okay with this.
"We gotta get this $#!^ together guys!" - Phil
So Nate's job status is at DEFCON 2?
It’s like the Cuban Missile Crisis, except this likely won’t end as smoothly.
by AK1984 on Feb 15, 2012 3:21 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
My 2C..
1. You don’t fire a head coach without a GM in place. That’s a totally moronic move. Furthermore, you really don’t fire a head coach without having a GM in place who understands his situation well. That takes time. From a timing standpoint alone it would be really silly to replace Nate this season as Dave pointed out.
2. The amount of free agent talent available next season is off-the-charts good. Really good. So even if you see Nate struggling with the players he has, the Blazers will look VERY different next season. Very different. And unless a new incoming GM decides to clean house and get rid of a bunch of talent PLUS Nate McMillan, it seems likely to me that they’ll give him a new, possibly better group of players to work with and see how it goes from there. I honestly think that with Brandon’s cap space freed up this is a much-improved team next season. Yeah yeah, I know we’re not getting Dwight Howard or talent on that level, but upgrades will be available. Did anyone REALLY think this team was going to make the Conference Finals this season let alone the Finals?
3. Dave correctly mentioned that Nate dealing with the sudden loss of LaMarcus on this squad is like driving a stick shift with no right arm. What then is losing Brandon like heading into a lockout-affected training camp where he had VERY little time to bring his guys together? Not to mention these back-back-backs. When does he have time to teach? Imagine sailing the open seas when your rudder (Roy) breaks with no warning. Let’s be fair to the man.
4. Management brought in Craig Smith, Raymond Felton and Jamal Crawford. How many guys did they miss on who could have been a better fit before settling for Jamal? At the end of the day, Nate is dealing with the best talent management could bring to Portland. It’s like making chicken salad out of chicken #@$* in many ways, especially given how bad Felton looks lately. Was it a mistake to let Andre walk? Is that Nate’s fault?
5. Lastly, the only way I see Nate being fired at the end of this season would be the team missing the playoffs entirely. Short of that, given the free agent talent available next season and Nate’s familiarity with our team in general, I can’t see them dismissing him just yet. Too many circumstances are working against him. As Dave said, it seems like every month he deals with some kind of new, horrible injury issue. When the team had Brandon AND LaMarcus you could afford to lose one for a short period. Dealing with the loss of both is crippling.
"It feels good to give the fans Taco Bell."
- Luke Babbitt, 1/23/2012
by halo_on on Feb 15, 2012 3:27 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
"You don’t fire a head coach without a GM in place."
Disagree.
What you mean is don’t hire a permanent head coach without a GM in place.
An interim head coach — such as Mike Born, Kaleb Canaels, or whomever — would be all right for a couple months. They’d have no shot at the full-time gig, though, and would be dismissed in June.
then make it Mike Born. .
How long has Mike Born been with the Blazers? Are any of the tools who passed on D Will and CP3 for Webster still around?
I’d like Kaleb to stick around. He did well with the summer league a few years ago and is articulate. He seems smart. I may be wrong but he will probably be a good assist..to head coach in the future.
"Lastly, the only way I see Nate being fired at the end of this season would be the team missing the playoffs entirely."
Even reaching the playoffs and getting unceremoniously ousted in the first-round for the 4th straight year is grounds for dismissal.
Nah. If he makes the playoffs (even if they’re ousted in the first round) they re-tool next year with an improved squad and give him a full 82 games again. Losing Brandon would be like Oklahoma City losing Durant RIGHT before training camp and replacing him with Nicolas Batum. Wouldn’t you expect to see their team drop off a cliff if that happened? If the Blazers had the same CORE and he continued missing the 2nd round I’d tend to agree more with you. Right now we have a “Big 1” instead of a “Big 2.” I hate to say it because the Nate-haters hate to hear it but if I’m Paul Allen? Wait ‘til next year. I’m confident that if you asked Marcus Camby in 5 years who he blamed for the Blazers woes in 2011/2012, he’d blame his own guy’s effort, not the coaching. I really believe that.
"It feels good to give the fans Taco Bell."
- Luke Babbitt, 1/23/2012
"If he makes the playoffs (even if they’re ousted in the first round) they re-tool next year with an improved squad and give him a full 82 games again. "
That’d lead to another wasted year.
Alright AK1984.
Provide me with the names of 3 head coaches who you HONESTLY think would..
1. Be available.
2. Want to work for Paul Allen.
I’d love to hear of names which fit the above criteria and are better options than Nate.
"It feels good to give the fans Taco Bell."
- Luke Babbitt, 1/23/2012
More people would take the job than wouldn't.
The only guys that i can see saying no are JVG and Mike Budenholzer. JVG is probably happy with his current announcing gig, while Budenholzer is probably sitting pretty until the OKC job opens up. Like Thibs, Budenholzer should be choosey about his first head coaching job.
Of the countless men who’d take any of the 30 rare NBA head coaching jobs, Michael Malone tops my list of up-and-comers and Mike Fratello tops my list of veteran tacticians.
"2. Want to work for Paul Allen."
A lot of folks tried to argue Rick Adelman would never, ever want to work with Glen Taylor and David Kahn in Minnesota, which turned out to be false.
Head coaching gigs in professional sports are so rare that most of these guys will gladly put up working for a goofy owner.
Yeah. You can't really afford to be that picky unless you're established as an elite coach
"Wide, girthy. Just like a Rhino. Sometimes my horns are visible."
Right, which is why I think JVG is the only well-established big-name candidate ...
who’d potentially decline based on being selective. I can see Budenholzer also being choosey, as he’s got a good job for now and can wait another year or two to make the jump.
i don't see a mid-season firing of mcmillan
he’s been here too long, had too much success and we don’t have any strong candidates waiting in the wings. he definitely has had a tough go of it with some strange rosters, whether its the last days of the jail blazers, the team of the future or the frail blazers. i think they give him the chance, knowing he won’t succeed and everyone can move on to something new at the end of the season.
Defensive Rebounding!
that’s all I got to say.
no doubt
it would help if we weren’t relying on out of position SFs, undersized PFs, and the oldest players in the NBA
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
The other things
When a team suffers a humiliating defeat as the Trail Blazers did last night at the hands of the Washington Wizards speculation swirls around the head coach
Add to that quote that it was a home loss.
The Blazer have dropped three straight at home.
The Blazers have been terrible in close games.
1 win in their last 5.
The Blazers are 2-8 vs. winning teams in their last 10.
all that =
reason to speculate and turn up the heat. It’s too small a sample to justify firing Nate by itself. Just look at Tom Coughlin this season.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Tom had a resume that included a championship with his team
Jack Ramsey got lots of chances before he was fired 9 years after his title, which is a more direct parallel in terms of the Blazers.
Yes and no. If you look at the big picture and look at his losing resume in the playoffs with Portland, never getting out of the first round, as well as how the team did even when we had home court advantage vs. Houston and coughed that up in Game 1 and never recovered to win that series. Throw all that together with what has happened this year and it’s time to wish the man farewell.
sure
there are a ton of factors that go into it, but the equation you presented didn’t have those, so I commented on what was there
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Tom Coughlin won a Super Bowl.
That comparison is as absurd as the doltish Dallas junk that folks have been spewing for months.
it's a comparison in the broadest terms
Nate: bad stretch of games, calls for him to be fired
Coughlin: bad stretch of games, calls for him to be fired
I’m not saying Nate is Tom Coughlin, I’m not saying Nate doesn’t deserve to be fired, I’m saying that THIS stretch of poor play does not alone justify it, and that’s what was presented.
Don’t put me in the dolt category because you’re assigning deeper meaning to a comparison than I did
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I didn't call you a dolt.
I called that idiotic Dallas comp — which I’ve heard so many times that it makes me sick — “doltish junk” above.
ok ok
my bad…all the negativity around here makes me edgy
I agree that if someone were to compare Nate the coach to Tom the coach that would be misplaced and completely unfounded
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I'm more invested in the Blazers than you, though
I know it’s silly to let that affect other aspects of my life such as my mood, but I’m just a diehard fanatic for them, the SF Giants, and the Beavs (that’s the super short list anyway).
When they do poorly it bums me out. When there’s turmoil and negativity it wears on me. But I’m okay with that. Without the bitter the sweet wouldn’t taste. When we win a championship in my lifetime it will be stupendous. Hell, I was jumping on my car when OSU baseball won that first title (granted that as a Dukie I also hate UNC). I had a killer day at work too so I don’t let it hurt the bottom line either.
Everyone fans in their own way
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
"When they do poorly it bums me out."
The last time I got bummed out was when the Seahawks lost to the Chicago Bears in the NFC Divisional Round of the NFL Playoffs a little over a year ago.
Y’know, believe it or not, I conned myself into thinking that the Seahawks had a fair chance to not only beat the Bears at Soldier Field — which they’d done recently in the regular season — but also then defeat the Packers at home in what would’ve been an insane NFC Championship Game.
So yeah, it happens to even the best of us.
also
if the Blazers finish with a better record than the Knicks this season my cousin has to by me a jersey of my choosing. Vice versa and it’s a Jeremy Lin jersey for him.
Would really like to win that wager
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 16, 2012 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
We could probably miss the playoffs
And have a better record than the Knicks end up with
"Wide, girthy. Just like a Rhino. Sometimes my horns are visible."
Pre-Lin, that bet was looking golden.
For your sake, I’ve got to believe that Lin comes back down to earth.
thanks
I told him this thing has turned around quicker than a Mike Pelfrey fastball
Knicks probably feel invincible right now, I need someone to take them down a peg and need the Blazers to keep pushing forward. If we go into rebuild while they assume the dark horse of the East role I’m in trouble
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
"Doltish junk" is just good vocab for the inverse of "hater"
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
Nate is to blame...
…regardless of whether he is playing or not. Period. Dot. End of story.
When a company doesn’t perform or produce who shoulders the blame? The CEO.
That is the role that Nate McMillan fills on this team. He is the leader, the CEO. Unfortunately, he has always been subtstandard in mentally preparing his personnel as well as communicating with them. He also, apparently, refuses to grow as a coach in these areas and it will likely cost him his job.
I am reminded of when Brandon “wasn’t sure” what his role was on the team when Dre came on board or the shouting match between McMillan and Dre as well. Those types of incidents only occur publicly when there is poor communication internally.
McMillan is too prideful and too “old school” for his job. He, fundamentally, does not know how to relate and communicate wth his players, players of a different generation, and there is an obvious diconnect (and has been for some time…) between them.
He has also failed his players by having them conform to his way/system rather than focusing on building a system that maximizes his players strengths and mitigating their weaknesses. This is called innovation – continual growth and improvement. He has repeatedly postured his players in positions of failure by putting them in roles that may work for a brief period but over the long-term are destructive (see: Crawford at 1 or Batum at the 4 for example A and B.)
He has also shown himself to be (just my opinion) extremely inept at being creative as well – also a much needed skill that anyone, much less a coach, working in such a dynamic enivronment (i.e. a game) needs.
Every good (great?) leader learns to conform to his/her personnel when communicating with them, not the other way around. In order to motivate someone, you must already know what motivates him/her and use that as leverage. That is why high-level communication skills must be the greatest skill that any coach at any level must (not should) have – this is especially true at the highest levels, such as in the NBA.
McMillan has time and again shown he is extremely weak in this area and, to this point, has shown very little desire to improve. Even his recent antics interacting with reporters magnify his inability to express himself clearly and communicate succintly.
I also disagree that firing him midway through the season will not have a positive effect. I believe a new voice, a better voice, in the locker room is what this team needs. Not the current drivel we keep hearing from the coach that defers blame to his players, rather a voice that focuses on the mindset and outcomes this team should be focusing on in order to achieve greater synergy and success. This team, right now, has no heart, no desire and that falls squarely on McMillan’s shoulders.
I know I don’t know what is said behind closed doors between the coach and his team, but if the end result (a stunning home loss to the lowly Wizards) is an indicator, then I must conclude that McMillan’s half-time speeches (his communications) are ineffective. The time for a coaching change has been needed (and warranted in my opinion) for years now.
Hopefully, the PTB leadership will see this and have the courage to make it happen.
Go Blazers!
~OV
by OmoriumVerum on Feb 15, 2012 3:43 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
When a company doesn’t perform or produce who shoulders the blame? The CEO.
So you’re saying the Blazers should fire Larry Miller?
"It feels good to give the fans Taco Bell."
- Luke Babbitt, 1/23/2012
Exactly...
And PA would be considerd the shareholders.
by OmoriumVerum on Feb 15, 2012 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
I'm talking in terms of function...
Not necessarily position. My point is that the CEO is the figurehead for a company as a coach is the figurehead for the team. Point taken however. :)
by OmoriumVerum on Feb 15, 2012 3:47 PM PST up reply actions
yeah
at the end of the day the responsibility falls at Nate’s feet
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Paul Allen is the CEO
Miller is the COO.
The empty chair at GM would be like a serior vice president in charge of product development.
Nate is equivalent to a mid-level director.
Maybe Nate should go, but this team has got worse problems than the coach.
Si equum mortuum flagellēs, non celerium currat.
by EngineerScotty on Feb 15, 2012 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
A mid-level director doesn't run the portion of the organization that the whole profitability depends upon.
And worth noting that if he was, well, mid-level directors are dumped all the time when their units don’t perform.
Yeah, coach would be more of a VP of Operations.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
Please reference my comment to halo_on.
I was drawing a parllelism in terms of function not actual positions. Also, my point wasn’t necessarily about who is what as much as who does what.
by OmoriumVerum on Feb 15, 2012 3:51 PM PST up reply actions
"When a company doesn’t perform or produce who shoulders the blame?"
Unions and regulations.
(It’s time to clean house.)
Obamas fault
But really it is… Think hard about it
by DonttrashCrash on Feb 15, 2012 5:52 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
We rolled into battle with a stopgap team meant to get us to the off season
It looks like our stopgap team is playing like a stopgap team. Disheartening, annoying, frustrating…yeah. It probably shouldn’t be surprising though.
It’s a stopgap team after all. The plan seemed to be to take the best shot at this season while leaving our options open to rebuild or retool the team in the off season. We’re doing that so far. Sad that our best shot at the season is completely terrible but it is what it is.
If Ray had been a better fit I think we’d be doing alright. Not great by any means but we’d probably have 5 or 6 more wins.
by poorwebguy on Feb 15, 2012 3:43 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Is it a matter of "fit" or is it the "system" in your opinion?
by OmoriumVerum on Feb 15, 2012 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
"fit" was being kind
I think it’s really a matter of Ray being out of shape, inflexible (both physically and talent wise) and having the wrong attitude.
He doesn’t have enough talent to demand a certain system be played to maximize his potential. He’s had one or two decent seasons. Nothing great. He wasn’t even great in NY. He scored 17 ppg but took a lot of shots to get there.
He’s been in the playoffs twice in his career and been terrible.
Hows this for funny
Article from a couple of years ago written by (I know…) Dwight Jaynes on the topic of Nate possibly being fired. And who did the Blazers lose to to spark that line of speculation? The Wizards. Didn’t happen then. Don’t see it happening now.
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/nate-mcmillan%E2%80%99s-days-with-blazers-are-numbered
"Luke is our go-to Chalupa man," Matthews said. "Designated."
Dwight has never been a Nate fan
Speculation this time is very different from last time. When it’s Dwight, I take it with a grain of salt. But when it starts spreading across media, it has my attention.
Dwight recently posted an article
pointing out that he was a staunch supporter of Mo Cheeks, to disprove the idea he’s a coach-hating curmudgeon.
If I were him, I wouldn’t brag about thinking Cheeks was a good coach. Whatever his faults, Nate’s ten times the coach that Cheeks was.
Si equum mortuum flagellēs, non celerium currat.
by EngineerScotty on Feb 15, 2012 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure Mo would have gotten to the "one" part after 08-09
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I think so.
I actually think if the situations were reverse, that Nate coached during Mo’s era, and Mo took over in 2006, we’d be having this exact same conversation but with the names transposed.
interesting
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Yeah, worst case
our seeds may have been a little worse, but we finished 4 games up on the 9th seed in 09/10, and 2.5 games up on the 9th seed last year. Maybe Nate over Mo is worth a game or two, but I don’t see that kind of swing, especially with our personnel.
Yep, I don't think the gap between Nate and Mo would mean a lot
Both would have relied heavily on Brandon Roy until he went down.
I think a lot of it is perception due to success
Which is mostly due to the players. I mean, Nate’s team stunk as bad as Mo’s did until Brandon arrived.
Well, those teams stunk.
Phil Jackson wasn’t going to go anywhere with a team consisting of Sebastian Telfair, Dixonmoniasmithwebster, Darius Miles, a microfracture-hobbled Z-bo, and Joel Przybilla.
Si equum mortuum flagellēs, non celerium currat.
by EngineerScotty on Feb 15, 2012 4:16 PM PST up reply actions
Come on, we had the Kobe stopper back then
Even though he only had one eye for a good chunk of one season that has to count for something.
Yeah, Nate and Mo are in that below average, yet not bottom of the barrel range of coaches.
Right now, I’m interested to see how long Scott Brooks, Mo Cheeks, and company last in OKC.
As an anti-OKC guy, I’m glad that they’re there holding the Thunder back a bit. Hopefully inferior coaching — along with other flaws, of course — helps cost them in the playoffs again.
Where do you rate Nate among NBA coaches?
How does he compare with Rick Adelman, Scott Brooks, Tyrone Corbin, George Karl? Keith Smart, Mike Brown, Vinnie Del Negro, Mark Jackson, Vinnie Del Negro? Pops, Lionel Hollins, Rick Carlisle, Monty Williams, McHale? Thibodeau, Frank, Vogel, Byron Scott, or Skiles? Spoelstra, Van Gundy, Larry Drew, Randy Wittman, Silas? d’Antoni, Doc, AJ, Casey, or Collins?
The only transcendant coach in that lot (with guys like Phil Jackson and Jerry Sloan out of the game) is Popovich.
Si equum mortuum flagellēs, non celerium currat.
by EngineerScotty on Feb 15, 2012 4:34 PM PST up reply actions
Mo suffers from the same deficienies that Nate does.
by OmoriumVerum on Feb 15, 2012 4:01 PM PST up reply actions
Hmm, not entirely
Mo Cheeks legitimately didn’t have much of an offensive system, while Nate McMillan’s offensive scheme — which was a lot of basic sets run in a 3-outside/2-inside high-low alignments — was simple, albeit efficient with the right personnel.
I'm speaking in terms of leadership skillsets (e.g. communication, player development)
As opposed to Xs and Os, but point taken.
by OmoriumVerum on Feb 15, 2012 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
Neither logic nor reason apply in this case
The PA regime has proved time and again it is unpredictable. It’s chain of command and decision making processes are opaque and seem focused as much on the Vulcan sports empire as on the local franchise. This team will never prosper until PA sells it to a committed local ownership group.
The only thing worse than Nate's coaching
Is Felton’s as our starting PG. Expect him to be moved before Nate
PG/Coaching is much more important to a team...
Than a mediocre SG who was meant to be a backup to Brandon Roy. If I had to call anyone out for bad road play it would be our “#2 dawg” GWall who somehow used to be a former all star.
Hate to say it
…but I almost hope we lose these next two games to force someone’s hand in Blazerland…..Nate is basically a .500 coach and the talent on this team is underachieveing. Trades, fire Nate – bring it on!
Andre Miller could coach circles around McMuff
Whilst dishing lobs to LMA from the sideline in a suit
Although I like Andre Miller's aloof personality, it's not what you want in a head coach.
by AK1984 on Feb 15, 2012 4:23 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
calling Nate McMuff or McMuffin
just like calling Obama Obammy or Obummer, only takes away from the points you’re making
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 15, 2012 4:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I know. I wasn't really making any constructive point
I just really miss Dre instead of Weigh Failaton. Way Failton. hmm which is better
Miller would have to have a designated listener
who could speak loudly to the rest of the team to let em know what he was saying
All I know is
if I had coached last night the result would of been the same but the team would of saved money and their would of been a good excuse for getting worked like that. I’m tired of making excuses for Nate. He just can’t seem to get his players (no matter who they are) to “scrap”.
I'm typing this here because I became jealous of everyone else with signatures in their posts.
Nate is paying the price now,
for his poor treatment of Andre Miller. The approach he should have taken with Andre, he took with Felton, and vice versa.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
I think Nate/Bernie had quite a bit to do with the trade..which is why Nate is
doing with Felton what he SHOULD have done with Miller.
that's what i was saying.
I heard Nate say early this season that he was going to let Felton do his thing. But it took a year and a half and the necessity of injuries for Nate to get behind Andre.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
specifically, Nate's approach with point guards has been his Achilles heel.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
Nate may end up as the scapegoat, but -
Chronic injuries, questionable coaching decisions by Nate and poor play on the court notwithstanding, this franchise has been in disarray for years. From botched draft picks to the GM carousel, in the end, all the underlying problems squarely point in one direction – and it’s not Nate. It may be time for a new head coach, but some sort of rational decision making and stability from ownership wouldn’t hurt either.
Injuries, misfortune, and bad luck have been Nate's scapegoat.
I understand the desire to say “lets not evaluate him until he has a healthy squad to work with”. But Greg Oden’s injuries had nothing to do with him starting Steve Blake over Andre Miller. Brandon Roy’s knees had nothing to do with Travis Outlaw being given free reign offensively while Rudy Fernandez’s minutes fluctuated nightly. Despite all the injuries, we’ve been remarkably healthy at the PG spot, and yet McMillian has somehow managed to start 10 different PGs in his 5 years. We haven’t been 100% healthy but for a few months in his entire tenure, and in those few months we’ve underachieved drastically.
McMillian could have been fired 3 years ago and it would have been justified. He could be fired tomorrow and a I wouldn’t bat an eyelash. He has never been a good coach, and by that I mean this team has never been “well coached” in his tenure.
I say its time for a new coach. And that has NOTHING to do with losing to the Wizards last night, and everything to do with the basketball I’ve been watching for the past 5 years.
Whose fault is it that we’ve started
"McMillian could have been fired 3 years ago and it would have been justified."
Yeah, Nate’s firing could’ve been justified as far back as May of 2009 after Portland blew it against Houston.
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