Batum...Selfish or not?

by gunballs on Feb 13, 2012 3:44 PM PST

I wanted to put this question out there to fans. In my own personal opinion I have noticed several times when a team mate has given Batum the ball, clearly expecting him to take a shot or make a move off the dribble, and Batum passes it along to the next guy. It's not just at the end of the shot clock either. I think when the players themselves say 'make or miss we want you taking the shot', and Batum doesn't, it's selfish. Especially watching the Blazers struggle to find someone outside of Aldridge that they can consistently go to for offense. I.e. Crawford being our current second option and last year it was Miller. Really like those players, but that's not proper role for them on a team expecting to advance into the playoffs. What do you think?

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Wow - a new definition of "selfish"

You might want to inform the dictionary.

by meru on Feb 13, 2012 3:53 PM PST reply actions 8 recs

I don't know, I kind of see what gunballs is getting at

Each one of these guys depends on the other to hit shots to stretch the D. The whole point of the offense is to get high percentage shots and then make as many of them as possible. If the team has worked to get an open shot, that shot needs to be taken. If not somebody else gets stuck with a flaming bag to deal with because we passed up a better shot we already worked to create.

If he’s not aggressive or confident enough to take those shots that’s a problem and that goes for everyone on our team (see Crawford when you could hear Nate yelling “shoot the ball!!)” They are all responsible for handling some of the defense other teams throw at us. If they don’t all keep defenses honest in their roles, it hurts everyone.

On how many elite teams do you see guys passing up good shots? They work to get those shots, and while selfish may not be the right word, I would agree that you are letting your team down in a sense. If that means you need to adjust your mindset to be more aggressive, do it. If it means you need to work on your shot so your confident and ready to fire, do it.

by Dunemonkey on Feb 13, 2012 4:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs

To put it another way,

he seems like he’s our best 3 point shooter right now. If he’s open out there and doesn’t the shot, then he shouldn’t even bother being out there.

That’s not the only thing he should be doing, but when he’s obviously THE GUY ON THE TEAM capable of doing that right now, he shouldn’t feel like he’s being a jerk to shoot away when he’s open. Once they’re on him then whatever he thinks is best is fine.

by Z-Bones on Feb 13, 2012 8:44 PM PST up reply actions

So often we've seen him pump fake at the arc.

Get the defender up in the air, drive by him, get wide open for the short range jumper or the option to drive to the hoop for a basket. He comes out of this with at least a foul if he drives but no, he passes to the three point line to a player that is guarded. WHY!!!!! You can see it drives Nate crazy. He could be a great player for this team, you have to respect his three ball and it leaves him with so many options. Options that he hardly capitalizes on.

by lethaldose on Feb 13, 2012 11:30 PM PST up reply actions

Well maybe...

… he’s trying to help keep the teammates involved. Maybe he thinks a set 3 by a teammate is a better shot than his stop and pop 2 point jumper. Maybe he doesn’t trust his controlled drive enough to get the bucket/foul and thinks he has a good chance or picking up a foul.

Probably something along those lines are his thoughts. And I’d agree with you that his thoughts are probably wrong. After Aldridge, he’s starting to look like he has reason to look for his own shot more often when he’s deciding between the pass and the shot. And I think in the week since we were talking about this, we’ve finally seen that from Nic more than we were before.

BATUUUUM SHAKALAKA!

by Z-Bones on Feb 20, 2012 2:13 PM PST up reply actions

hahaha

"If you can do a half-assed job of anything, you're a one-eyed man in a kingdom of the blind."

by thankyouforblaze on Feb 13, 2012 11:39 PM PST up reply actions

yeah i wouldn't call that selfish

by Daddygr33nJeans on Feb 13, 2012 4:25 PM PST reply actions 1 recs

I think I would.

To methe selfish part of it comes not just in taking open looks, but in the fact that all teams need a couple players that take on a brunt of the pressure offensively. It helps the role players relax and play there games. Taking a lot shots when your team doesn’t believe you should is selfish. I just think that when your team believes you should be taking a lot of shots and you place your insecurities as a higher priority, than that’s selfish as well. Roy understood what he needed to be for his teammates and Aldridge is coming to understand that as well. When I watch the body language it just seems like the players believe Batum should be taking more shots and taking on a more prominent role in the offense.

by gunballs on Feb 13, 2012 4:53 PM PST up reply actions

"the players believe Batum should be taking more shots"

Nate believes it as well. He has pulled him for showing reluctance to shoot the 3.

But no. I don’t think that is selfish.

"Luke is our go-to Chalupa man," Matthews said. "Designated."

by Vorlauf on Feb 13, 2012 5:17 PM PST up reply actions

Stupid would probably be more accurate for what you're going for.

I don’t think Batum is stupid and I know it’s nit picking vocabulary. But I don’t think Batum’s passing up 3s to make himself look good. I don’t know exactly what’s in it for him. Maybe he’s not missing when he doesn’t shoot? That’s probably the best way to see it as being selfish.

by Z-Bones on Feb 13, 2012 9:47 PM PST up reply actions

If Batum is going to be the number two option he needs to be starting.

by aPleasureToBurn on Feb 13, 2012 10:18 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs

This^

Starting him gives him the confidence he needs to be more aggressive. Every player who comes off the bench since Nate has been our coach knows he’s one mistake away from getting yanked. No wonder he’s a little tentative.

by lethaldose on Feb 13, 2012 11:36 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs

"players believe Batum should be taking more shots"

then they should actually pass him the ball.

how many times have crawful and felton looked nic off only to take stupid shots or commit dumb turnovers?

PHILLY!

by CleBlazer on Feb 14, 2012 1:36 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs

+100

by ripcitymilehigh on Feb 14, 2012 2:37 PM PST up reply actions

Uh, no

LaMarcus "Macrohard" Aldridge

by LaoTzu on Feb 13, 2012 4:53 PM PST reply actions

yeah...um....no

Batum is a team guy, in fact I would argue that Nate has screwed around so much with Nic mostly cause Nic lets him.

Nic has tried to fit into the offense…and remember…he comes from a European system which places a lot less importance on individual scoring than the NBA does.

Even on his French team, Nic relishes the role of setting up other guys…not quite like Rudy does but he likes being a facilitator.

I could see the argument that Nic and Nate are on different wavelengths and will struggle to see eye to eye on when to shoot and when to pass…but that is style thing and both guys have to work to find the middle ground.

It sounds to me like someone is trying awful hard to defend Nate.

by ripcitymilehigh on Feb 13, 2012 5:00 PM PST reply actions 2 recs

Oh defenitely.

I think Nate is on to something in his criticism of Nic. I would imagine like many, Nate might be doing a better job of defining what Nic should be doing than defining what he should be doing.
It’s an abstract concept and not that difficult.
If a player has the ability to score and his team believes and depends on him to score, then that means if he’s a consistent scorer then he is a team player.

by gunballs on Feb 13, 2012 5:27 PM PST up reply actions

That's correct

I think a lot of this is coming from his development with his former team (and the headcoach was collet, our NT coach right now).
We insist a lot on the extra pass here, and obviously nico has the make the good choices. Even collet used to teach him in the NT to play more agressively and take his responsabilities (which he did and he was clutch for our nt during last eurobasket).

Yet i think he has improved a lot, especially when it matters (ie 4th quarter) over the years. He has still a lot to do to become reliable, but right now i am rather optimistic.

by raph on Feb 13, 2012 10:43 PM PST up reply actions

Not.

#52--------I believe in Greg Oden

by annthefan on Feb 13, 2012 8:21 PM PST reply actions 1 recs

I think when the players themselves say ‘make or miss we want you taking the shot’, and Batum doesn’t, it’s selfish

interesting (and crazy)

"If you can do a half-assed job of anything, you're a one-eyed man in a kingdom of the blind."

by thankyouforblaze on Feb 13, 2012 11:40 PM PST reply actions

Frankly, he's not selfish enough.

Can’t teach assertiveness, though.

"I Am Mine"

by AK1984 on Feb 14, 2012 4:39 AM PST reply actions

You can absolutely teach assertiveness.

Some people just aren’t able to learn it. Not sure if Nic is one of them. Often, the best way to teach assertiveness is simply letting someone age and gain experience, which may not help here.

Of course, some people are just born with it. Kind of annoying when they’re driving behind you, but handy when they’re on a basketball court.

by Timmay! on Feb 14, 2012 11:09 AM PST up reply actions

LaMarcus developed a lot of assertiveness over the past year or so,

but a lot of that came from himself. If Batum is going to become more assertive, it has to come from himself, though circumstances can push him towards assertiveness, much like Roy’s injury pushed LMA that way.

"Wide, girthy. Just like a Rhino. Sometimes my horns are visible."

by YoniRap on Feb 14, 2012 12:13 PM PST up reply actions

Nice spin on the word.

I don’t think Batum is selfish; Crawford maybe. Actually, these two suffer brain farts of the polar opposite kind. Crawford is guilty of shooting when he shouldn’t and Batum passes off a good opportunity when he shouldn’t. It’s too late for Jamal to change but Nic still has some time, after all he’s still pretty young. Of course it could be as AK states, you either have it or you don’t. Personally I’m disappointed that Nic Batum hasn’t played starter’s minutes as I see it as a make or break year. We could really see what he’s really made of.

by Stryder9 on Feb 14, 2012 5:43 AM PST reply actions

Batum is the 2nd best player on the team.

I don’t try to agree or disagree with Dwight Jaynes, but on this point I do. 2nd best.
He’s the best perimeter defender (and multi-position defender) for a coach who identifies himself as defensive minded and who employs switching on D as normal. Batum has become adept at fighting over screens compared to other teammates. He plays help defense though he can lose track of his man sometimes in doing so.
Selfish?

He comes in for 24 minutes a game. He doesn’t want to disrupt the flow of the team. When on, he’ll shoot (though he fades on his jumper too often rather than going straight up). When his outside shot is off, he finds other ways to score and to contribute.
Selfish?

If CoachMac wants him to shoot more, run plays for him and have the guards look for him. If he wants Batum to go for offensive rebounds and tips, stop parking him in a corner so much. Instead of Camby, have Batum play high post.
Selfish?
Not buying it.

Players who are aggressive for their shots — Crawford, Matthews, Felton, Wallace — who take too many that are not good shots for them are allowed to do so by CoachMac. That’s on him, and it’s not because “You’ve got to make shots.” It’s you’ve got to take good shots. Use them according to their strengths. Averaging 24 minutes? Really?

Questioning Batum’s minutes is taken by CoachMac as a criticism. And it is. And it’s a criticism of not making him a higher option on playcalling.

by HoopsFan on Feb 14, 2012 8:39 AM PST reply actions

I believe assertiveness is the reason

I tend to agree when playing in the euro league it’s always about team ball and setting up players… NBA is about who can be the star… Batum shows signs of coming out of that shell. example of this is when he plays Lebron or Kobe He steps his game up. I am not sure what that’s all about but it needs to reflect to the rest of the games he plays. He needs to insert his will on players who have no chance of stopping him… many times i have seen him not take advantage of match ups he could dominate… ie steve nash last year… hows nash going to block your shot? The guy has the talent i think the rest is the mental aspect but he is only 23 not really in his prime i think it will come with time i think next year we will see another jump in his game like we did this year

by Canthus90 on Feb 14, 2012 11:45 AM PST reply actions

I think the word you're going for is "selfless"

something he needs to be less of

by blazerblaze on Feb 14, 2012 1:07 PM PST reply actions

I get your point

Selfish isn’t the right word though. I think part of it is confidence, and part of it is the fact that he isn’t punished for passing up open shots.

I HATE IT when Wes and Nicolas pass up open threes. If I were Nate I would bench them immediately every time they do it.

by andyisnumerouno on Feb 14, 2012 4:54 PM PST reply actions

Yeah. Last time Nate benched Nic at the end of the game for passing up a shot Bedgers went nuts because Nate

took Nic out of the game. Nate is wrong no matter what he does.

#52--------I believe in Greg Oden

by annthefan on Feb 14, 2012 5:19 PM PST up reply actions

I know... let the man coach!

by andyisnumerouno on Feb 14, 2012 5:44 PM PST up reply actions

Nic has done better.

When I wrote this Nic wasn’t starting and I felt his passive play is actually hurting the team. Especially considering with his length, speed, and shooting stroke he should be able to stumble into 18 to 20 a game. Since then that’s kind of what he has been doing.
I think he has stepped up to the plate realizing his team needs that from him. Don’t know if he was told or he just looked around and realized there really isn’t anyone else to shoulder that load.
His playmaking abilities are beggining to come out as well, which is just another nice piece to his well rounded game.

by gunballs on Feb 21, 2012 8:22 AM PST reply actions