Blazersedge Mailbag: How Blazers Coach Nate McMillan Should Be Viewed
I'm going to try and sneak in a few broad-stroke mailbag questions over the next couple days, addressing frequently-repeated subjects about which people are inquiring. We're going to start with a hot topic over the last couple weeks: how Nate McMillan's job should be evaluated this season.
Right off the bat, I'll tell you the one that's driving me crazy. "Nate isn't playing the bench enough." You can add in its cousins "Nate is driving the starters into the ground" and "Nate should develop [insert name of first- or second-year player here" and the unintentionally ironic "I love what The Rhino is doing so why doesn't Nate give the bench an opportunity?"
Look...Portland HAS no bench outside of the guys you're seeing regularly. Kurt Thomas is dependable for 12-15 minutes. That Craig Smith has made inroads may be the best news of the season. But for everybody clamoring for an alternative to Raymond Felton or Jamal Crawford, for instance, it doesn't exist. This team is built around its top eight guys, period. There's no move Nate can make which, on average, will give the team a better chance of winning. He's stuck with these players.
A variation of this is, "Just play [insert young guy here] because we need to develop him! Forget wins and losses and build towards the future!" First of all, everybody has to pick their criticism. At the beginning of the season several people were hot and bothered with, "This team is going to contend!" What would have happened had Nate crooked his finger towards deep bench players and lost 2-3 games because of it? The comment section would have flayed him alive. Now, in the absence of that, the criticism is that he's trying to win too many games. You have to choose one or the other.
Those who would advocate going younger also have to realize that this isn't a video game. A head coach has to work within an organization. On top of that, players are real people too. The Blazers got Crawford and Felton for a reason. The Blazers are keeping Marcus Camby so far for a reason. If the organizational plan was to spend the year developing Nolan Smith and Chris Johnson that money wouldn't be spent. Now that you've got the veterans, how would you explain subbing them out in favor of players less able to do the job? The team's primary goal is not to win anymore? Then what are Crawford and Felton doing there? For that matter, what is LaMarcus Aldridge here for? You would instantly lose a bunch of your players. You'd end up with another eight-man rotation but this time the 6th-8th men would be your rookies and sophomores while your experienced players groused their way through the season while counting the seconds until they could get out of town.
There's an example of a criticism that won't fly. Most others fare better. Plenty will end up as valid determinants of whether Coach McMillan did a good job this year. Click through for some perspective on those determinations.
Coach McMillan should be evaluated like every other coach in the league: by results. In the absence of an organizational directive, either stated or implied by roster moves, the most valid barometer of his season remains wins and losses. You have to start with reasonable expectations of where the team could end up and then judge whether those expectations are exceed, met, or failed.
The criterion here is big-picture all the way, in many ways only measurable once the season has finished. Game-by-game criticisms also arise and can be illustrative of the whole. Then again, every game and coaching style will have something to criticize. Otherwise you wouldn't need coaches, just a computer to figure the optimal strategy. Micro-criticisms have to be taken with a grain of salt. They are subservient to the macro view.
One of the great pains of my personal 2011-12 NBA season happened just before it started. For Christmas I got the Elder Scrolls: Skyrim and the Lord of the Rings Extended Version Blu-Ray set. If you can find more intensive time sinks, I'd like to hear them. And I received both the day before the Blazers played their first game in a whirlwind, never-stops schedule. Where was this stuff during the lockout???
I've given up on Skyrim for now (and please don't spoil it for me) because there's no way that's happening until the off-season. But the new Lord of the Rings set has given me a chance to re-watch these movies in 30-minute doses. Taking my time with them has given me perspective.
I grew up with J.R.R. Tolkien's books. I'm not the world's biggest expert but I do know that Galadriel once crossed the Helcaraxe with the rest of the spurned Noldor and that Tom Bombadil wore the equivalent of a New Orleans Hornets away uniform. So when I first watched the movies I found tons of details jarring me out of the narrative. They skipped this. They transplanted that dialogue into this situation. I walked away frustrated...not enough to pan the movies, but I noticed. But then I recalled the first two movies of the Harry Potter series. Although I liked the later films the first two were as dull as plodding mules precisely because of author J.K. Rowling's apparent insistence that every...single...scene in the books be rendered faithfully without exception. When I re-watch the film now I have more of an eye for pace and story. I realize that those details I was complaining about probably wouldn't have helped the narrative. More properly, I realize that there's more to making a movie out of a beloved book than I once thought...that it isn't as easy as it seems...that you're often forced to make decisions where there is no right answer and sometimes you just have to go with whatever fits the overall plan best and hope it works. So I've let go of most of the detail-oriented complaints. If I can see why the filmmakers went that way I can go with it even if the decision seems off to me.
That said, there are a couple of trends which I find more distasteful. One of the chief ones is how chummy we all became with Gandalf. If you recall in the books Gandalf was a mixed blessing of sorts...not only an authority but an authority you weren't entirely sure was working for your personal good. He was powerful, usually beneficial, but also scary. That subtle fear added to his authoritative aura. This is a little hard to maintain when you have Frodo all but sitting in Gandalf's lap and cooing in Act 1, Scene 1 of the very first film. And it never got much better. Only Ian McKellen's strong presence saved that character. You could mention more. Shoving the characters into movie archetypes--Legolas as superhero, Gimli as comic relief--seemed a bit lazy and pandering even if it did help the viewer identify with them. Some felt there was too much talking in the films. Others felt they were too action-oriented. These things are not only more enduring, they provide a stronger platform from which to evaluate the filmmakers' work.
The movies even contained a stand-out horrific decision that I can't see anybody agreeing with: they neutered Sauron's Ringwraiths. Part of this came from the difficulty of the Enemy being largely implied in the book but needing to be shown explicitly on film. They did fine with the visual depictions of the Nazgul, but what they did with them was ludicrous. In the first movie the Ringwraiths were on horseback, chasing running hobbits, suspecting the ring was nigh. Though coming within inches in the forest, they somehow couldn't catch up to them (again, on horseback) before the halflings made their escape. These are the most powerful servants of Sauron? They can't steer a horse? But that pales to the end of the Two Towers movie when the writers had Faramir, the good guy of Gondor, kidnap Frodo and Sam in order to take the ring for his father. He carted them off to a battle, which definitely never happened in the book. They were totally out on their own here. At the end of the battle Frodo came face-to-face with a Ringwraith riding a dragon, pulled out the ring literally two inches in front of his nose, and yet somehow after searching for centuries to find this Ultimate Weapon which was the culmination of his existence and his master's desire the stupid wraith could not manage to grab the ring. From a hobbit. With a dragon. Hey Ringwraiths...you suck. Why should I bother paying attention to anything you do ever anymore? And why did we hide the ring from you and your master in the first place?
They wrote in a scene that was never part of the story to provide yet another battle in a movie that already had two other huge ones to provide a climax that wasn't effective and absolutely destroyed the credibility of the biggest baddies in the movie. This was the equivalent of being down by 3 with 5 seconds left and no timeouts and you hear the coach in the huddle demanding his players go for a layup. It was a huge mistake.
This is the point: with nagging detail issues, some annoying trends, and at least one overt blunder clearly identified, how do we now judge Peter Jackson and company? Were the movies perfect? No. Could they have been better? Probably. But at the end of the day, were they good? Yes...they still were. In many ways they were better than we had a right to expect of such a perilous endeavor. The filmmakers made wrong decisions, but they got many more right. More to the point, I'm not sure that another producer and director could have come up with a better product given the circumstances. They would have done things differently, but that doesn't mean better, let alone error-free. Robert Wise was a legendary Hollywood director when he took the helm for Star Trek: The Motion Picture. That movie disappointed. William Shatner was the star of the entire series and made the worst movie ever in Star Trek V. You don't always know what you're getting into. You can't criticize imperfection without asking if there's a reasonable expectation that another person in the same situation could produce superior work.
I see some of the same details with Nate McMillan's work that people bring up game to game, though some of them are also errors in interpretation. I tend to dismiss those as the record will out, so to speak. I've disliked some of Nate's overall style. The switching defense drives me crazy. I've also seen the occasional big gaffe, usually in pulling a guy I don't think should be pulled. But at the end of the day I have to ask whether the Blazers have lived up to expectations. Given the circumstances, they have and continue to. I also have to ask whether I think another coach could do a better job or whether I'm just letting the imperfections I'm well-acquainted with blind me to other imperfections that a different coach would bring. My assessment of that is that, whatever faults Nate may have, the roster, depth, injuries, and drafting have influenced this team far more than any mistakes Nate may have made along the way. He's making more right decisions than wrong ones. The product is as sound as it's going to get. Therefore he's doing well.
The team's target this year is the playoffs. A first round loss is neutral, more than that is a thumbs up, missing the playoffs would be a strong thumbs down. Until we know what happens we won't be able to say definitively how Nate has done.
After that, well...one of the advantages of sports as opposed to a movie is that you get to do it all over again each season. If I were picking someone to re-do the Lord of the Rings and Peter Jackson wanted another crack at it, I think I'd pick him first. For the same reason I've generally supported Nate retaining his position. At some point after Jackson has had 7-8 tries and the imperfections weren't ironed out I might be interested to see what someone else could do. In that same vein if the Blazers decided to go a different direction after the season I wouldn't scream. But that's a decision for later. Right now I see no reason to stop the movie to change directors. I'm involved enough to see how the story ends.
Go ahead and talk Nate or the Lord of the Rings flicks below if you wish. Consider it the rare dual-topic thread.
--Dave (blazersub@gmail.com)
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Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring, extended edition disc/part 2.
Best part of the film trilogy, in my opinion. Moria, a Balrog, and the Uruk-Hai.. what more could you ask for.
Dave harshing on ringwraths: cool
but, um, what were we talking about again?
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
I love McMillan
I got lost in all that other stuff that I dont know anything about but I think its awesome that you have diverse interests
La Illaha Illallah Muhamadur Rasulallah
Lord of the Rings, movie making and coaching analogies
Impressive – there are similarities to the creative collaboration of making movies and sports. Ego, talent and direction. So true man – real life ain’t no video game.
yojimbo is jazzed
2011-2012 is our 2012-2013 pre-season
by jazzed on Jan 31, 2012 11:55 PM PST via Android app reply actions
All I know is that I'm apathetic toward Lord of the Rings.
The books, movies, whatever. Fantasy doesn’t do it for me.
"I Am Mine"
On a related note, have you ever cheered out loud?
It really is a waste of energy resources and precious bodily fluids.
by manfredi on Feb 1, 2012 7:47 AM PST up reply actions 8 recs
Happens Every Year
—Outlaw is going to be a star once he develops that mental toughness!
—Sergio should play more.
—Bayless is wasting away on the bench.
—I want to see more Patty Mills.
—James Jones can really hit that corner 3, he should start!
Then these guys go to different teams and are mediocre at best.
I think part of it is Blazer fans having too high of expectations, then when the team fails to meet expectations, they think somehow the “diamonds in the rough” on the bench are being held back from saving the season.
I’m no fan of Nate, but he sees these bench players in practice and knows what they’re capable of.
Heck, Felton and Matthews wouldn’t even be starting on many other teams over 500, what makes people think our bench players are superstars in the making when they’re playing behind these guys?
by remember-robert-pack? on Feb 1, 2012 12:40 AM PST reply actions
Here is an example of what I’m talking about…
I think people are going to be surprised. I did a stat comparison on Rose and Bayless in their first four games as Freshmen (because shortly after that Bayless moved over to SG). In those first four games, statistically, Bayless looks like a scoring point and Rose looks like a SG who doesn’t pass very often. In those games, Bayless averaged 6 asst/game, while Rose averaged 2.5 asst/game. Rose only averaged 4.5 asst/game for the season.
Tell me again why Bayless is not a PG?
He can be a top 10 PG in the NBA within 3 years, imo.
by remember-robert-pack? on Feb 1, 2012 12:50 AM PST up reply actions
James Jones currently leads all SF in efficiency
Bayless is better than any of the guards in the Blazer rotation. For that matter, so is Rudy Fernandez.
The most egregious error, however, is assuming that performance in practice has anything at all to do with moving someone up in the rotation. Williams could be a practice superstar for all we know – and rightfully would have no chance at displacing Mathews or Crawford for SG minutes – not at this point in the season.
Practice performance might make a difference in questions like Nolan vs. Armon. It really doesn’t have anything to do with Williams vs. Crawford.
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
why "rightfully?"
Crawford has an atrocious 96 offensive rating and is correctly regarded as one of the worst defensive players in the entire league, both in terms of effort and performance. If a first round rook can’t at least get a few of those minutes, how is any rookie ever going to get the playing time needed to improve with the Blazers so long as there is someone older than him in the rotation?
i keep dancing on my own.
and Tyson Chandler is leading the league with a 142 ofensive rating .......seriously roflmao
by Willie Beamon on Feb 1, 2012 7:44 AM PST up reply actions
offensive rating is an efficiency stat
so yeah low usage guys like Chandler will always be up there because all they do is dunk. But there’s no way a supposedly offensive minded player is helping the team with that putrid level of efficiency, no matter how high his usage rate.
i keep dancing on my own.
it is when hes being misused and forced to play out of position while playing fewer minutes
If Crawford actually knew Nate was gonna use him this way from the start he probably doesnt sign with us
by Willie Beamon on Feb 1, 2012 8:13 AM PST up reply actions
but hes actually improving by the all star break his numbers will be just fine
If we had another ball handler that would allow him to play off the ball more his numbers would increase even faster
But asking the 2nd best scorer on the team to play limited minutes while also trying to play the point in those limited minutes and setup other struggling offensive players for the first month after joining the team is huge adjustment
by Willie Beamon on Feb 1, 2012 8:59 AM PST up reply actions
Nate has tried somebody else.
That is why Nolan Smith was getting some minutes. Nate said he wanted to try it to help get Crawford his rhythm. It seems Nate wasn’t real thrilled with the results though.
by Jeremy Wonderly on Feb 1, 2012 9:44 AM PST up reply actions
The veterans had to be allowed to fail first
Besides, Williams isn’t next in line for Crawford’s minutes. Batum is.
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
I do agree,
the fact that there is a lot of players that does good in practice isn’t able to put it on the floor in game time, because of lack of experience and stage fright. I have read so many complaints about Babbitt, in general, but it is said that he is astonishing in practice, Therefore if he ever gets over his stage fright he may be a great outside shooter that we need. It is said that Nolan can’t remember plays once he gets in the game and that translates into bone-head mistakes.
But in other instances, some players just goes through the moves in practice and not not stand out at all, BRoy and Clyde was great examples of that.
Practice time is for timing, chemistry and a way of developing new players to Nate’s system. But very few times does that translate into playing time.
hg
by BBK on Feb 1, 2012 7:01 AM PST up reply actions
Steve Blake and Jarret Jack are as well
Bayless is better than any of the guards in the Blazer rotation. For that matter, so is Rudy Fernandez.
I won’t even bring up Andre Miller. Oops, I did.
I read The Hobbit when i was in 5th grade, and it made a big impression on me then.
It was given to me as a gift by our Lutheran minister Pastor Pfotenhauer before he left town. You notice I still remember his name. I went on to read the other Tolkien books, with diminishing interest, and have never had any interest in seeing any of the films. My assumption is that it’s like Harry Potter — and it may well be good, even very good, but I am not the target demographic at this point. I like different novels, different films.
I don’t think i’m really qualified to make an informed judgment on the work of an NBA head coach. This team has suffered the subtraction of what looked to be its possible all-time stars: Greg Oden and Brandon Roy. Given the circumstances, Nate has probably done a reasonably good job working with the players he has. Doug Collins and Tom Thibodeaux may be better coaches but i’m not positive.
The element of luck, as in almost all sport, sometimes exerts great force on the outcomes of individual games.
ignacio
by ignacio on Feb 1, 2012 12:42 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
well said:
The element of luck, as in almost all sport, sometimes exerts great force on the outcomes of individual games.
it’s hard to judge someone who does well, though not perfect by any means, with what’s he’s been handed.
"If you can do a half-assed job of anything, you're a one-eyed man in a kingdom of the blind."
by thankyouforblaze on Feb 1, 2012 12:53 AM PST up reply actions
Great call
You hear all the time how this coach or that coach may be better, but in the same circumstances we just don’t know. So many fans are stuck in the stone age with race bias, like a white quarterback to a black quarterback, a white coach to a black coach, that has nothing to do with how good or bad the person in that position is. That of course is getting much better thankfully, but I have read a few comments on this sight that tells me it has a ways to go.
With that being said, and the fact that I don’t know either, makes me take the “Fire Nate” as just being bias,
hg
by BBK on Feb 1, 2012 7:12 AM PST up reply actions
Another great read Dave
Great writing as usual. But none of this changes the fact that Nate needs to be more flexible in his rotation and quicker to adjust to changing game situations.
If you pull a player with two fouls and keep him out most of the game, but you loose anyway and the player ends up with just the two fouls you blew it. If you’re up by twenty but keep Camby in the game instead of letting CJ take some minutes from grandpa you blew it. If you leave Batum on the bench stoppage after stoppage while Wes is bricking every shot, you blew it. If we have a fifteen point lead but you can’t find three minutes of non-garbage time for Ewill to see if he can contribute then you blew it. If you have Felton in the game with Crawford and Jamal is running the point, you blew it.
If we need shot blocking because Camby is out with two fouls or an injury and you play Smith and Thomas together instead of Smith or Thomas AND CJ then you blew it.
Nate is a good coach but it seems like he makes some very basic mistakes and takes much longer than most other good coaches to realize something isn’t working.
Just because he’s doing a good job in general doesn’t mean we should overlook these glaring mistakes.
And don’t give me this crap about how his job isn’t to develop the rooks, his job is to use the roster to its fullest potential to win games. In a season like this the few extra mins of rest these guys can give our heavy rotation players may make the difference between a win and our guys being totally gassed and out-hustled at the end of games.
by Mattco26 on Feb 1, 2012 2:07 AM PST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
+1
great rebuttal…in regard to developing rooks, no coach should be given a pass at developing talent. That is part of the definition of coaching. Coaching is more than playing time and calling time outs and everyone should know that. Nate’s history so far, is that he is great at getting average or below average players to over-perform (see blake and outlaw), but besides Roy he has been very slow to take advantage of truly talented players.
In a league where talent beats scheme, you have to develop talent and if it takes a couple losses now and then to do you HAVE to. Especially on a team that is as committed to the draft as the blazers are, there is no excuse for ignoring player development.
by ripcitymilehigh on Feb 1, 2012 3:58 AM PST up reply actions
"Nate is a good coach but it seems like he makes some very basic mistakes and takes much longer than most other good coaches to realize something isn’t working."
Excellent overview!
Nate is a decent coach, and especially in the last 2 seasons when the team was shorthanded, he did a great job.
But the shortcomings in his work should not be ignored.
Why in the presence of good defensive specialists like Camby, Wallace, Batum, Matthews the defence of the team is not good?
Why as the season goes is not visible an improvement in any direction, and we see the same weaknesses?
Shouldn’t with the course of time the team to develop better chemistry, better bond?
And isn’t all this the responsibility of the coach?
Do you think that McMillan knows how to use optimal the talent,the qualities of Batum?
Are you Belgian?
You sound like Hercule Poirot.
I wasn't aware 7th most efficient defense in the league is "not good"
We must be watching different games because I’ve seen improvement in team chemistry and play. Raymond is playing much better lately and the team seems to be gelling much more with him at point. I agree it’d be great to see Wes and Predator come out of their road slumps, but I think the integration of our new guards is definitely improving.
I think Nate gives Batum as much as Batum is willing to take. The guy doesn’t have his head completely on. It’s been great in the last couple of games how he looks aggressive, but until he looks like that all the time and can finish his looks at the rim he doesn’t deserve to be used any more than he is right now.
Fair enough analysis
However, McMillan’s mark is all over this roster. He demanded players in their prime and got them. He didn’t want an aging veteran in Miller. He didn’t want to rely on unproven talent like Williams. Management obliged McMillan with Felton and Crawford – and now it is up to McMillan to make good.
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Feb 1, 2012 2:49 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
"However, McMillan’s mark is all over this roster."
This is true. Wasn’t the case 3 years ago, but it is now. It’s certainly the case with the Felton move, Crawford signing, and Nolan pick. McMillan’s thumbprint is on this past off-season, which included a miscalculated lateral move, a meh signing, and use of a first-round draft pick on a high-floor four-year Duke grad to whom he stubbornly won’t give rotation minutes at backup point guard.
"I Am Mine"
If has been said, that Nate sees the need to change, but doesn't have practice time to do it.
He tried inserting Nolan, but at this point is said that Nolan can’t remember the plays, that needs to be addressed to be fair to other players. Babbitt can shoot lights out in practice, but doesn’t practice enough with the starters to translate into floor time and chemistry with other players.
I am not actually disagreeing with you, as you are more knowledgeable of BB then me, but you shouldn’t leave out important issues when evaluating players, draft picks and coaches.
hg
by BBK on Feb 1, 2012 7:23 AM PST up reply actions
For what it is worth
I went into the Garden early a few games back ….saw Babs shooting ….he hit about 11 out of 15 from three just shooting prior to warm ups. He can shoot ….in practice
"What began as a credible protest against bank bailouts, crony capitalism and the like has, in large measure, been hijacked by crazies and criminals,"
Nate gets a B because he's better than 80% of NBA coaches. It's too bad for so called defensive minded coach his teams
can’t guard perimeter players. He also seems to think isolation plays are the best way to close games. Brandon Roy really made Nate look a lot better than he actually was.
Nate does so many things I disagree with, but I know he’s the best coach available for this team. It’s not like Rick Adelman is trying to coach here.
Its not like
the team really made an effort to go get Adelman either
by ripcitymilehigh on Feb 1, 2012 3:52 AM PST up reply actions
"Nate gets a B because he's better than 80% of NBA coaches."
I’ve got him in the 15 to 20 range, which gives him a C to C- grade.
Subpar coaches can coach good teams, though, with Scott Brooks in OKC a current example of that. Yet, I do hold Brooks against the Thunder; he’s currently one of the reasons I think they flame out in the playoffs this season. I also hold the putrid VDN against the Clippers, although weak depth and porous defense go against them as well. However, replace VDN, Marc Iavaroni, and Dean Demopoulos with Jerry Sloan, Phil D. Johnson, and Gordon Chiesa, then I’d change my tune about the Clips. A conference finalist instead of some rinky-dink first-round exit.
"I Am Mine"
Novels and cinema aren't the same thing.
People need to get over that and understand they’re two completely different art forms. You always have to disengage yourself from the books, besides if it was identical there would be no surprises thus making the adaptation pointless, right?
Anyways, this team is not loaded with great talent, so it’s difficult to blame Nate for a lot of their shortcomings especially when these guys miss open shots nightly. Nate isn’t asking Felton to suck at his job and clearly Felton is sucking at the most important position in the game. Who backs him up? Jamal dribble and chucker Crawford and rookie Nolan Smith.
They are also vacant of leaders. LA leads when it’s convenient after him it’s probably Camby. That’s not a good thing that nobody is holding each other accountable for poor play. Not that they should be pointing fingers, but somebody needs to start screaming at the players who aren’t defending the ball.
Lastly, I had a dram last night in which Roy still played, but he only comes in during the last 5 minutes of every game to close it out.. It’d be sweet if a guy could go warm up somewhere like a baseball closer and come in and save the day with a couple of big buckets.
I am confident
that if the Blazers replaced McMillan the team would get worse. I’d be happy to be proven wrong, though.
Taxes don't kill jobs.
"I am confident that if the Blazers replaced McMillan the team would get worse."
Depends on the replacement.
"I Am Mine"
Perhaps
but my confidence in the front office is such that my statement still stands.
Taxes don't kill jobs.
On that I would disagree.
If you had the same players and starting five year after year, I would agree, but with Portland’s injury record, and their starting five changing constantly over the last few years, with redeveloping rookies for a year or two then trade them off for a new batch of rookies to save money then I would have to stipulate that it wouldn’t be much different with any coach replacement.
hg
by BBK on Feb 1, 2012 7:35 AM PST up reply actions
Nate is basically a .500 coach...
Nate’s regular NBA coaching record is 470-438 or .518. His playoff record is 14-20 or .412. I dont know what “grade” he deserves for a record like this. I’ll let others decide that. What I DO know is that I’m ready for a change-not that I expect Paul A. to do something like that at this point since he’s stuck with him this long without great results. If the Blazers don’t pull of a miracle and advance in the playoffs, I somehow sense that PA isn’t going to continue to want to own the Blazers for very many more years. I wonder if PA would just as soon sell the team lock stock and barrel and let the next owner deal with Nate. Just a feeling. The situation must be horrible for PA-he wants to win badly but can’t bring himself to fire his old buddy.Illness and age will do that to you..
FIRE NATE NOW, PLEASE!
In Portland I would say he is closer to 55% winning percentage
His first year was a rebuilding year. I have a hard time including that season in a discussion about his abilities as a coach. I would say even his second year only gets added in there with some sort of handicap. The Blazers were in disarray when he came in as coach and he coached with an assortment of young and old that won more games than they should have. They improved every year building from the draft and adding no real big name signings.
The discussion should at least start there. He came here when Portland was a joke and helped return the Blazers to respectability. He has also had a tad bit of adversity in the injury department since arriving. Not saying he should get a complete pass, but he has done a lot with what has been handed to him.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
Nate's record was a lot better in Seattle than it has been in Portland
Of Nate’s regular season win total of 470, 212 of them were in Seattle where he was 212-183. In Portland, he’s been 258-255 for a .500 record, basically. MAYBE the Pdx teams he’s coached have been much worse than the ones in had in Seattle, so he’s not responsible for his record here. Maybe Nate’s not the coach he was in Seattle. Or maybe Seattle won in spite of him. I don’t know the answer to these questions. I just know that when I miss Rick Adelman A LOT, that’s a big deal. I do think that Blazer management and fans over value our teams on a regular basis. However, I would need to check to see how many other coaches with Nate’s record in Pdx have kept their jobs as long as he has.
FIRE NATE NOW, PLEASE!
He was here for the rebuilding 20 and 30 win teams
this tends to screw up you your career win-loss numbers
"What began as a credible protest against bank bailouts, crony capitalism and the like has, in large measure, been hijacked by crazies and criminals,"
Yup.
The fact that he was willing to come to Portland and coach our sadsack group of players is one of the things that I put in his plus column.
He came to Portland for the money, which is what I'd expect of most people.
I find that to be neither a + nor -, but just an incentive for someone changing jobs.
"I Am Mine"
yeah this
the year after was a .500 year too that doesn’t really help.
I disagree with this part.
He was also here when Brandon Roy was destroying every team’s defense, which is something he would have done with any coach. So should we remove those years too, since really it was the GM who brought us Brandon?
His record is his record. It’s a small part of the overall judgment of Nate, but a fair one as-is.
I have to disagree
Mainly with applying this to Nate’s first season. No one was going to win games with that roster. Nate kept winning games when Roy went down so I don’t see the logic of handicapping him for having a premier player to work with. If there was a significant drop in wins without Roy, I would agree.
I still think Nate needs to prove himself in the playoffs. He needs to get past the first round soon to prove he can keep moving this team forward.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
Why is this not valid?
Did Phil Jackson spend a lot of time as the coach of a rebuilding team?? The fact that he didn’t inflated his won-loss record, didn’t it and had little to do with his ability to coach
"What began as a credible protest against bank bailouts, crony capitalism and the like has, in large measure, been hijacked by crazies and criminals,"
If we ignore nate's rebuilding seasons
he has a .618 record. That’s not bad. Plus, how is making you miss Adelman mean he’s a bad coach? Adelman coached us to the NBA Finals a couple of times, he’s not bad at all.
This is a joke right?
You are making some kind of corelation from Lord of the Rings to Nate McMillan??? Nate has done some good things over the last 7 years but he is flat out blowing it this year and i am not the only one who sees it that way. This guy better turn it around pretty quick or he will be out the door. I’ve made excuses for him for way too long. He still has a chance at a nice season that will save his job but i would be really suprised if this guy gets another contract without a conference finals appearance.
by kjironman1 on Feb 1, 2012 7:49 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I remember the "Lord of the Rings" was about the good and the bad is never stamped out.
And the beat goes on. So regardless of replacing Nate, getting new leaders, changing scenery, it will end up the “sameo sameo.” or the more and more we want to change the more and more we seem the same.
hg
Nicely done
Nate probably won’t be around much longer anyway but the Nate hater movement is in full swing. Give it a year or two after we get a new coach and the [insertnamehere] hater movement will start to gain traction.
I don’t really mind the hate but the nitpicky stuff drives me crazy. Like seeing details without seeing details. I understand that everyone is going to have their own opinion but a lot of what’s going on is just pure hate.
It’s kind of like people are just looking for stuff to throw. They don’t even care if is backed by fact anymore.
by poorwebguy on Feb 1, 2012 8:18 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
I completely disagree
Give it a year or two after we get a new coach and the [insertnamehere] hater movement will start to gain traction.
It will happen after the first loss…and I am being generous….the first pre-season loss
"What began as a credible protest against bank bailouts, crony capitalism and the like has, in large measure, been hijacked by crazies and criminals,"
by 92wastheyear on Feb 1, 2012 8:34 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
rec for being absolutely correct
my statement was way too optimistic
I have so many things to contribute to this discussion!
Not only am I a HUGE Blazer fan, season ticket holder, and former employee of the Rose Garden but I am also a crazed nerd who reads Lord of the Rings (including the Silmarillion (best book ever written imo)) at least once a year. So much so that my wife and I are having our first child in two weeks and (depending upon gender) their middle name will either be Beren or Eowyn…AND I went to school for film making.
I have a lot of issues with the films as well and I agree with every point that you made. I love the books so much that I wanted word for word, scene for scene translation to the silver screen. As you say, that probably would not have made for a very interesting set of films (unless the entire audience were to be as nerdy as myself).
I don’t think that the analogy fits very well here because Peter Jackson and Nate are doing opposite things. While Jackson felt that Tolkien’s masterpieces needed jazzing up for Hollywood, Nate seems to feel like slowing things down is the way to succeed.
My biggest frustration is that for the first three (undefeated) games that the Blazers played this season we saw fire and speed and quickness and lots and lots of points. It looked like Nate had changed his style to fit his roster.
That speed could not be kept up with our aging roster combined with the hectic NBA post-lockout schedule so Nate and the boys began to revert back to Nates style from the last few years – plodding, snail-like, 20 second predictable plays ending in mid range jumpers that we regularly miss. Once again, bending the roster to Nates style.
While I am a part time athlete and understand the need to keep your body as fresh as possible I still long for the early days of this season with the 10 second shot clock, the fast break points, and the Gerald Wallace breakaway dunks.
Other than that, I am happy with Nate and I am sure by the end of the season I will be praising his consistancy and thanking him for executing the plan that once again gets us into the playoffs.
Once we get to Pellenor, anything can happen =)
we can still win........
And once again a one and done in the first round?
You make some very valid points about Nate, and then end by saying you’re happy with him overall. At what point DO the negatives overwhelm the positives?
FIRE NATE NOW, PLEASE!
at what point does the roster get viewed as more impactful to success than Nate?
at what point do we acknowledge that we lack the personnel to have reasonable expectations to make consistent runs at conference finals?
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 1, 2012 8:38 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think we have two problems...
The roster is over valued talent-wise and Nate is over-valued coaching-wise. I fear that simply swapping out the current talent (and PA has already emphasized that he’s not up for another re-building process) and giving the keys back to Nate again will end up with the same results we’ve had overall with him at the helm. The only way to know for sure would be to leave the team basically as it is and see what a new coach could do with it. We all know we suck at the guard positions and lack interior talent. I don’t know if that’s going to change the rest of this year. I also don’t know if there’s another coach out there that’s better than Nate, but like i said I’m up for a change just to see if it makes a difference with the current roster.
FIRE NATE NOW, PLEASE!
I'm not sure we can determine that Nate is over-valued
when you concede that the roster is over-valued. Based on reasonable expectations we’ve either met or exceeded given the circumstances. If the roster is over-valued then our expectations are skewed higher than they should be.
The one thing I’ll admit can be argued is that Nate’s growing influence on the roster (Felton-Crawford-Nolan) isn’t optimal, but I have a hard time looking at our last 3 seasons, with all the injuries, and not being satisfied with 50+ wins per season on average.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I can agree on the roster thing as well
That’s a valid ding against Nate.
This is a good point
The following 3 statements cannot all be true, unless I’m really missing something:
1. The team has generally met or exceeded reasonable expectations
2. The roster is not as good as most people think (over-valued)
3. The coach is not as good as most people think (over-valued)
by zbrum on Feb 1, 2012 12:47 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
At
What point do we have a system that players can be drafted into? What we need is a gm and coach on the same page. Right now Nate got what he wanted in getting rid of miller and bringing in Crawford. It’s a disaster. Nate has a great out as the fake gm can take the hit, but this is the team he wanted. This is why we need to hire a gm first then allow him to hire a coach. Then draft for the over system.
sounds like a Paul Allen problem
not a Nate McMillan problem. With a real GM who had authority within the organization Nate wouldn’t be able to do those things.
I’m less opposed to change if it’s a new GM bringing in his own guy to coach, but I do think Nate is a good coach who has gotten good results from this team. Canning him just isn’t at the top of my priority list for what I think the Blazers need to do to get better.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 1, 2012 9:02 AM PST up reply actions 4 recs
annnd rec
Nate wouldn’t be able to step in if we had a GM that could actually make decisions.
Crawford has been fine lol talk about overreacting Felton on the other hand has been the disaster
We have 3 starters struggling signing jamal doesnt make up for 3 starters struggling .
Sometimes I wonder if anyone on this board has league pass because most of the league is struggling except for a few superstars
by Willie Beamon on Feb 1, 2012 9:04 AM PST up reply actions
36.8% fg and 30.6% from 3 pt
thats not fine, at all. I would rather have no Jamal. Why? Because I’d have to imagine that his minutes/shots would be more efficiently distributed between Craig Smith, Batum, heck even throw an Ewill in their for dunks/lack of chuckability alone.
Crawford will have one decent game every 5 games, and a couple nice crossovers a game. It’ll fool the noobs but it doesn’t fool me.
last 5 games hes at 45% and 36% from three we are 20 games or so in and he had no camp basically he is fine considering hes only playing 24 mpg
The only reason its an issue is because felton and Wes have played like and well below expectations .
If your starters are doing there jobs than what a 24 mpg player is doing doesnt have the the impact but when you have 3 of your 5 starters basically disappearing on the road all the time lol blaming a 24 mpg player is effectively what one would calling sticking your heading the sand .
by Willie Beamon on Feb 1, 2012 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
My main concern about Nate is not his win/loss record.
In his first couple of seasons he piled up a bunch of losses due to lack of talent and that can easily be forgiven. I also believe that, given a long enough timeline, his record will/could be much better.
What bothers me is that the team is simply not exciting to watch when playing Nate’s system. Win or lose, it just doesn’t have that electric, red-hot-and-rolling atmosphere. Our finest moments under Nate are still just plain boring.
The same consistency that gives us wins, still induces yawns at epidemic proportions.
I think that if this season were being played at a normal pace instead of 4 games every seven days, that we would see a lot more of the run and gun that we saw (and loved) earlier in the season but the schedule is preventing that and I feel sort of lucky that the we have the trademark Nate style to fall back on.
Like any trade, I would have to see who we could possibly get that would be better than Nate if we were to replace him and the list of coaches that I would consider “better” is very, very short.
we can still win........
Proclaiming a one and done roster is nothing more than an educated guess
Someone could proclaim us as 2nd round exit and have the same chance at being right. For all the statistics we throw around at BE, the whole one and done coach thing is a case of exceedingly small sample size.
Nate’s been a coach in the playoffs 5 times. He’s gone to the 2nd round once in two tries in Seattle. He’s missed it 3 of 3 in Portland AFTER a rebuild and with devastatingly depleted rosters essentially missing what was supposed to be our 2 best players.
He’s a .500+ coach in 12 years with a 2 to 3 year rebuild. Really good coaches get hired onto winning teams and 20+ years of coaching stacks up into .600+ winning percentage.
Nate is on course for that kind of record. Calling him a .500 coach doesn’t really make sense.
by poorwebguy on Feb 1, 2012 10:40 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
No longer plodding, just not that good...
While I too would love to see more fast breaks like we did early in the season, it is hard to criticize his team’s current pace. By Hollinger’s stats the Blazers have the league’s sixth highest pace. While there are a number of criticisms that Nate deserves, this is no longer one of them.
Dwight Jaynes
Nailed it yesterday on the utah game. How is it one of the best rebounders in the nba is on the bench in the forth when Utah is shooting free throws and missing? That is bush league. No coach with Nates experience should miss that. It cost us the game as camby probably would have grabbed the missed free throw. Wallace didn’t. Nate does these kind of things often. Missing miss matches, pulling guys when they are hot. He just not that impressive for what we paying him.
our players cost us that game
but yeah that looked pretty bad. Must have been a reason for it but I can understand assuming the worse.
Developing young players starts in practice
Not during games!
I have several issues with Nate’s coaching. However, leaving the young players on the bench early in this season is not one of them. How can Nate play the young players when the entire team has had very little time to practice?
The truth is, this entire NBA season is a mess due to the lack of pre-season games, very little practice time, and a condensed schedule. All of the teams are playing way below their potential and talent level, not just the Blazers. All of the games are ugly to watch, not just the Blazers. The teams playing the best BB are the ones that made the fewest roster moves from last season.
When you add in the Blazers starting a new PG, Nate has his hands full trying to get this roster to play together. Plugging in new players does not result in instant positive results very often, especially at PG. I agree with Nate, this time. The best answer to build team chemistry this season is start by playing a short rotation. Later in the season is the time to give the main rotation players a rest and give the young players a chance to see what they have learned while watching from the bench.
Hope the NBA and NBPA learn from this mess they created as a result of the CBA negotiations. This is the worst BB in the history of the league, not just the Blazers. This is a wasted season. This season is designed for the players and owners to make money, not to produce quality basketball games for the fans.
They don't have time to practice.
Got to happen in games like the one tonight and tomorrow. This is the perfect time to get the 2nd’s on the floor.
It
Doesnt have to be the second unit. Let guys get some burn with starters. Pop ewill in place of mattews with the starters, they can cover for his mistakes and teach as they play. The problem is putting a bunch of the young guys in together. Of course they will suck that way.
it probably will
see the Suns game. That 4th quarter garbage time is probably the most time our young guys will get this season because of the compressed schedule, the shortened preseason and lack of practices.
These guys didn’t have time to get up to speed and you can’t really play them major minutes in a competitive game. They sometimes look good for 5 minutes here and there but they also get torched massively every once in awhile and cost Nate an extra timeout.
Sometimes things need to change, just for the sake of change
I think this should be Nate’s last season. He’s not necessarily preventing the Blazers from winning a title, but I think we’ve seen enough of him. A different coach could be better, or could be worse, but I think there is a greater chance that a new coach will be better than Nate than there is a chance that Nate stays and gets better. Can you follow that reasoning?
BTW, I loved the LOTR discussion. I’ve read the books 30+ times, and watched the movies a few times as well. I consider the movies and books two separate art forms, each incredible on it’s own and containing unique elements that the other doesn’t have.
Can you follow that reasoning?
Nope. Sounds like reasoning from the gut which is really no reasoning at all.
You're right, it's not reasoning, I needed to add some numbers
So here’s some numerical analysis for you:
There have been exactly zero head coaches in the last 23 years that took longer than 4 years to win a title with their new team, and there were only 2 in the last 30 years. Both of those were back in the 80’s (Chuck Daly with the Pistons and Billy Cunningham with the Sixers), both won titles 6 years after taking their jobs. Most coaches won a title with their new team within 2 years. (I didn’t research before 1980, as that was a different era.)
This is Nate’s 7th year on the job with the same team, so he would be the first coach in a very long time (if ever) to win a title after so long.
I know that statistics aren’t always predictive, but we would be foolish to at least not consider them. Oh, and my gut was right after all :)
by unblindloyalty on Feb 1, 2012 1:28 PM PST up reply actions
those are really interesting statistics
thanks for getting those…but at the same time you wouldn’t use that reasoning to fire someone like Jerry Sloan would you? I guess it could be argued he’s a unique case
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Whether you feel nate is a good or bad coach...
I dont think really matters at this point. He could be a very good coach, but I think its clear his style of coaching has gotten everything it will out of portlands teams. Regardless the roster year after year we are complaining about the same issues. just like players sometimes they just need a change of scenery. Nate could probably use a change and so could the blazers.
For those that talk about development let me ask you something, is the 8th seed and first round exit really all you care about? Personally with the draft thats coming up this next year I would rather make a few trades for younger players, and play some younger players and finish in the lottery, then finish in the 8th spot. When you look at the players that we have on the roster right now, and the players whose contracts are expiring, its clear we will need to make some changes next year. So I would be okay giving up some W’s this year if it meant seeing what we have on this current roster. I guess i’m just looking at the big picture, and would rather the team be far stronger in 2-3 years, then in the same position its in now.
sounds like you're saying the roster is the problem and not Nate
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I think its a combination
Nate was part of the problem with picking the roster. Plus no matter what our roster has been the last few years we have seen the same in game problems, so that part would be nate to me.
LIke I said, regardless whether someone feels nate is a good or bad coach, I think a change would benifit him and the team.
Plus it would help to haev a GM with a good vision, maybe like Cho had.
Yeah...lets do Nate a favor ...and fire him!
I think a change would benefit him and the team.
"What began as a credible protest against bank bailouts, crony capitalism and the like has, in large measure, been hijacked by crazies and criminals,"
by 92wastheyear on Feb 1, 2012 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
He will get hired somewhere else. It will give him a chance to start fresh
How many times have we seen a player get cut or traded from a team which he was performing poorly for. And he goes to another team that uses him differently and he does great. You see it with coaches also, they may do poorly in one place and good in another.
I am glad you aren't my boss
I can do without those opportunities
"What began as a credible protest against bank bailouts, crony capitalism and the like has, in large measure, been hijacked by crazies and criminals,"
by 92wastheyear on Feb 1, 2012 10:15 AM PST up reply actions
NBA is nothing like our day to day lives
Coaches get passed around and always have more chacnes whether its an assistant role or head coaching role. I would be my life savings that if Nate got fired he would be coaching again within 3 years (and only that much tiem if he wanted time off)
I understand that
If you are being cold blooded …be cold blooded….but don’t pass it off as if you are doing him this great favor…getting fired is getting fired
"What began as a credible protest against bank bailouts, crony capitalism and the like has, in large measure, been hijacked by crazies and criminals,"
by 92wastheyear on Feb 1, 2012 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
I don't see whats cold blooded about it
You hire a coach to win a championship, if you feel he can not deliver that then you let him go else where… thats teh nature of sports… why do you think we have so many coaches fired every year. Not cuz all of them are bad coaches, some just are bad fits
this roster can't deliver a championship
I’m unconvinced that Nate can’t
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
agreed
See Alvin Gentry and the Phoenix Suns as point of reference 2009-2010. I personally think he’s a terrible coach.
Nash and Amare almost took that roster to the finals though and probably would have had a decent chance against the Celtics if they had.
you are correct that this roster can not deliver
And there is no way to know if nate can or not.. but I am beign consistant… since the firs tseason we had nate my exact quote to all my friends was “nate is a good coach, and he will get us tto the playoffs, but hes not a championship level coach”
Obviously that was my opinion and there is no way to prove or un prove that. But personally I don’t enjoy watching his teams that much, which sucks since I love the blazers. Its been a rough few years.
and for me
I’m not convinced that he’s not a championship level coach…we won’t know until he has a championship level or near championship level roster, which he’s never had.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I think we both can agree though hes had a few rosters that are definatly 2nd round ability,
and has failed with all of those
I don't think he's failed with those, no
we don’t agree there
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
If you have had a few years that you should have won teh first round
even having home court in at least one of those, and you fail to make it out of the first round, then how is that not failing? if your in teh top 4 seeds in the west and you get knocked out, then you failed.
Young teams usually need some playoff experience before going to the 2nd round. See OKC. The other two Portland seasons were hamstrung with injuries.
Of the two chances for the second round in Seattle, Nate’s team went once in a strange year where they won too many games for what they had to work with.
Sound familiar?
that's how sports works
Should we have beat Houston? Arguably. Our team was talented, although very young, and we did have home court, but it was a disastrous matchup with a team that took LAL to 7 without Yao in the following series.
I will guarantee you this: If Nate had that team the following two years, he does get out of the first round.
Oden goes down 21 games later and hasn’t resurfaced. We’ve had Juwan Howard, Dante Cunningham, etc.. playing center. Roy is out versus PHX making Andre Miller our spearhead.
I’m not sure where you get the “should have won the first round” for each of the last 3 years. You can make that case to me for the HOU series but like I said, first appearance, young, talented but horrendous matchup. I chalk it up to those things more than I put it squarely on Nate. It was our first playoff rodeo with the new roster. As for Phoenix and Dallas? No way can you make that case to me. PHX especially due to our injuries and DAL especially because they went on to win the whole damn thing.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
im not saying we should ahve own each year, but 1 out of 3 should have been doable
I can sit here and make excuses all I want but in the end in sports it comes down to have you succeeded or not? We do agree the roster is part of the problem, but nate has helped choose a good portion of this roster. I’m sure he has had some say in just about every move made the last couple of years. So this roster does have his finger prints on it.
And with Roy I love what he did for us, but thatw as the Front offices fault. There were doctors at the draft who told teams his knees only have about 5 years in them. Minnesota’s GM went on the radio and said that about two years ago. Thats why he was getting passed on. We had the data and picked him anyways and made him our leader. Like I said I loved what he did while he was here, but the writing was on the wall, our Front office should have had a back up plan. But once again we coudl go on for hours in ways our FO has screwed up the last few years.
this is a FO problem
but nate has helped choose a good portion of this roster.
as is much of what you mentioned.
I understand sports is about the bottom line. Losing = failure, winning = success. That’s a massive oversimplification to me.
By failing to take the circumstances into account we do not arrive at the correct conclusions.
We can agree to disagree because for me there are good reasons not to put our playoff failures squarely on Nate. It sounds like most of your issues are with the front office and not Nate.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I've always said I think nate is a good coach, but not sure if he fits what we have here
I just think sometimes a change of scenery does wonders. I think Nate would be a great fit in a place like Sacramento who needs some structure.
That and I’ve grown tired of watching the same issues come up regardless of the roster year after year. But you are right I have some issues with our FO big time.
I guess I'm not sure what we have here
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I was pleasantly surprised
that this was the topic of conversation as I really wanted to hear from Dave on this subject. I wanted to hear from him as I know he could help me to understand how a coach, and particularly this one, can be viewed based on the way the game(s) transpire. When the game recaps are done a lot of this analysis goes on. I have had a feeling that there was some reason why this subject hasn’t been explored on Bedge. I could see if there was some direct connection like the way Quick is emotionally too close to his story or the Mikes are homered due to the fact they work for the team. I would think that here you should speak freely and frankly about the way this coach coaches. I am neither pro-Nate or anti-Nate, I would just like to know what’s going on.
If one was talking about Phil Jackson there would be a lot of discussion about the triangle offense and how he was unable to get Kobe out of ISO ball hogging or whether he should have. I remember the Boston LA finals a few years ago and I actually thought Doc Rivers way out coached Phil Jackson. Now I’m told that had a lot to do with Thibodeau and his defensive schemes. When I watched those games I got the feeling that Boston did to LA what LA would normally do to other teams by running beautiful offensive sets that broke down the defense for efficient scoring. Perhaps that had a lot to do with Rondo I don’t know. I watched Chicago the other night and I didn’t get the same feeling about that offense even though an even more efficient point guard is running the show. That may just a premature evaluation since I haven’t seen much. Nevertheless I’d like to know what Portland runs in sets and what their game planning is all about if any.
I know that Dave can’t give the inside scoop of an assistant coach or something but there should be plenty of room for analysis based on the viewing. For instance, It would seem to me that Aldridge could have been taking the ball inside a whole lot more against Utah the way he did against Phoenix but instead I was seeing mostly pick and pops of a fairly weak variety. He was still scoring well but as per usual disappeared in the fourth.
What I got out of this post is that Dave supports the coach for now and that he is pretty good but he doesn’t like the switching defense. It almost sounds like some form of an endorsement. If McMIllan coaches out his contract, gets fired, or coaches another ten years, I don’t care. I just want to know what he is employing. What are his usual offensive sets if any? What is his game strategies? What type of defensive schemes does he use Zone, 3-2, 2-3, one on one? When the switching is mentioned, well, I got the impression that Felton WAS fighting through picks a lot and not switching in comparison to Miller who seemed to always switch, but I’ve heard others say just the opposite.
If it’s possible to have more analysis I’d really love to hear it. Even if children’s novels are used for analogy, I wouldn’t mind as long as there is some breadth of discussion.
Play
The long game if this team is not a title contender. You trade Felton, Wallace and camby for a long term piece. You play the youngsters with Aldridge and get them valuable experience. Miss the playoffs and try to move up a few for an impact player. Next year you sign one quality player with cap space. Boom right back into long term growth and the playoffs. You just have to sacrifice this year. Nate won’t do that because he is not a long term thinker.
I would not want ANY coach
who was willing to “sacrifice” a season.
we can still win........
by RastaMonsta on Feb 1, 2012 10:09 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Anyone follow Jim Caldwell in the NFL.? 36 year old Payton Manning out for the year …Andrew Luck available with the 1st pick …if the record was bad enough. Caldwell coached his team to the worst record (best result arguably) and what did he get ….a nice firing! “Nice job coach …we got everything we wanted …no get the hell out!”
Go for it Nate!! I don’t care if they want you to tank …try to win every game possible
"What began as a credible protest against bank bailouts, crony capitalism and the like has, in large measure, been hijacked by crazies and criminals,"
by 92wastheyear on Feb 1, 2012 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
do we really know that? He had a TERRIBLE roster
by SerenityNow! on Feb 1, 2012 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
He had basically the same roster but minus Manning
Don’t get me wrong not having manning really hurts, but he should have still managed more wins then they had. Look at harbaugh, he had a team that only managed 6 wins the year before and got 13 with alex smith.
Caldwell was really well liked
and that roster has been trending down for awhile. Many thought they were 8-8 at best WITH Peyton Manning this last season
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
And the owner chose to clean house
And we don’t know this might be good for Caldwell…. But To me thats a completely different situation then we have here, I wasn’t even teh one to bring that one up. Our roster has been as healthy as it will be, and at best we are 7-8th seed. Is that all we really want out of this?
it is
but you make it sound like he was the problem when that roster isn’t that good.
Besides, he went from head coach to QB coach, I don’t think that’s a good thing for him. He may never get another shot at the helm.
Our roster has been as healthy as it will be
Oden? Roy? And what does that have to do with Nate? How is that on him?
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I personally think its the roster and coach... thats why i want both to chagne
As it will be, Roy is no longer on the roster, and oden hasn’t been a factor for most the time hes in the NBA. I never blamed that on Nate. But the last few roster moves has had his name all over it.
This is the roster we can make excuses, but no NBA team is healthy all year long, it jus tdoesn’t happen. Thats part of coaching.
I've heard for years "we aren't healthy"
and other excuses. And yes at times I woudl agree, but every team goes through injuries and either plays on or fails. We haven’t been out of the first round even when healthy. At what point do we stop using excuses and hold the players and coach accountable for their failures?
teams don't lose 2 of their 3 franchise cornerstones
but every team goes through injuries and either plays on or fails
The only team that’s gone through anything close is Houston with Yao and McGrady. We rebuilt, we got the personnel, we got good again. Then you lose Roy and Oden, but the team is still good, and I’m supposed to believe that we’re not still affected by those injuries????
Those injuries are the exact thing keeping us from having a championship roster right now, and they are the exact thing that is preventing us from having a defined direction right now. This has all been PA hanging on and trying to patch the holes on a sinking ship, but you can’t fill Roy and Oden size holes. We are where we are BECAUSE of those injuries
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I do agree a lot of this lands on PA trying to hang on
we could have already been in rebuild mode and fixing the roster long term if we weren’t tryign to hang on and patch it.
exactly
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
He was coach when the team wen tto their 2nd super bowl...correct?
"What began as a credible protest against bank bailouts, crony capitalism and the like has, in large measure, been hijacked by crazies and criminals,"
by 92wastheyear on Feb 1, 2012 10:17 AM PST up reply actions
as atomic stated, it was housecleaning
and i think its clear he relied on mannign to carry the team, not his own coaching ability.
Yeah...because all the rest of the teams that lose their best players
do soo well??
"What began as a credible protest against bank bailouts, crony capitalism and the like has, in large measure, been hijacked by crazies and criminals,"
by 92wastheyear on Feb 1, 2012 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
Not all, but there are those out there that do fine... look at the texans
they lost their best two players and still made a run in the playoffs. But like i said somewhere else the colts and blazers are two completely different things. We have had a healthy line up all year (till batum) and we are still having the same issues we always have under nate
beating the Bengals and their rookie QB at home is not a "run in the playoffs"
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
When your using your 3rd string QB
and you nearly pull off the upset against baltimore, I will give them credit. They finished the year and made the playoffs with their 3rd stringer and missing their top receiver for a lot of that time. Got to give credit where credits due.
I just don't consider the one win over the Bengals a playoff run I guess
it was an admirable season, wish Schaub would have been healthy. Yates has a good arm btw, and was only 3rd string because he was a rookie.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I think its more of a Paul Allen won't do that.
My understanding is that Cho was fired because he wanted to rebuild and that wasnt to Allen’s liking. Yes Nate tabbed certain veterans as players he would want and for that he deserves criticism, but the overall framework is set by Allen. Nate and Chad got the directive from Allen and tried to implement it. So far with uneven results. But to blame Nate for lack of long-term vision I believe misses its mark.
by SerenityNow! on Feb 1, 2012 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
Where's adelman when you need him?
We’re not getting out-played; we’re getting out-smarted!
You are what you write.
we're not getting outplayed?
that’s news to me
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I'd say a bit of both
We’re not getting out-played; we’re getting out-smarted!
and by outsmarted I mean outsmarted on the floor. Ray for Dre seems like a massive downgrade in PG basketball IQ. What I’ve seen in most of our losses is a team that picks 1 or 2 quarters to play and looks tired and lackadaisical for the rest of the game. I can’t put that on Nate. At some point the players have to step up and deal.
The coach can scream all he wants. Players decide whether they listen.
I came to read and comment about Nate
but then I got to your Lord of the Rings bit…and was reminded that I want to punch Peter Jackson in the face.
Team Struggles to Score Under Coach McMillan
The lack of reliable, consistent offensive production has been a hallmark of Nate McMillan’s Blazers throughout his tenure. The team’s lack of ability to score for significant chunks of the game has pushed this team into mediocrity. This Blazers roster should be able to score. The lack of consistency on the offensive end is dooming them to mediocrity. Players consistently shoot poorly under Nate because the offense does not produce good shots consistently. BRoy thrived in 1v1 iso situations and that was good for Nate because his offensive scheme needed the help.
All I hear Nate talking about is “we need to defend better” and “we need to rebound.” Yes those things are important but when you can’t score and the game is on the line, that is why you lost. Sure it might have helped to get more rebounds or stops but how does that help if you can’t score?!
At the beginning of the year the Blazers won because they were running and scoring in transition. Teams figured it out, the Blazers got fatigued, and it was back to bad offensive execution and losses due to lack of scoring in the 3rd and 4th quarter. Because the offensive scheme stinks.
The only other critique I have is he takes too long to figure out what his best lineups are, but he does figure it out eventually.
In the end, nobody seems to talk about how bad they are at getting good shots consistently within the half court offense. And I do not think Nate knows how to coach them to do it, and clearly, at this point, we have the players. Its the system.
I like Nate....
I think Nate McMillan is an excellent coach.
However the strange reality seems to be, that he has faced so much turmoil, challenge and unexpected change every season since being here, and been able to find a way to succeed.
This season in comparison has been relatively calm. And yet? This might be the season where he loses the team.
As long as McMillan doesn’t lose the team, as long as the guys are listening and responding, then I have no problem with Nate McMillan as coach. I don’t think better exists out there to obtain. In other words? I don’t think you make a change unless you HAVE to make a change.
Despite our road woes, and some problems thus far, I wouldn’t define our situation as having reached that point.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
by Krang on Feb 1, 2012 11:54 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
<3 Nate !
But if he would shoot better from 3 and rebound better off the bench, the Blazers would have a much better road record. Shock jocks wouldn’t call for his head and fans would have to complain about something else. ;)
just win baby !
by FrenchieFan on Feb 1, 2012 12:55 PM PST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Sorry I don't buy the "no time to practice" as an excuse for not playing young guys
When Crawful runs point how complicated do his plays look?
a. Over dribble, crossover, mid-long range contested J. Low % of going in but when it does oh boy does it look good. Oh and he is decent at finishing closer to the hoop but seems unmotivated to take higher % shots
b. Pick and roll
Nolan is a 4 year guy from Duke and won ACC player of the year, and you’re trying to tell me he can’t run a pick and roll, or make the pass to a cutter (which Felton or Craw usually can’t), or just make the pass to a man running off of a screen to the 3pt line?
Most of the screening and set up is done off the ball anyways…youngins can’t grow if you don’t give them any trust or minutes or role
I don't buy less practice for 2 reasons
1. every team is dealing with the same situation.
2. How many practices has nate cancelled due to “tired legs” you can half walk throughs that don’t wear out your legs to practice sets. This was his choice to cancel, and so we have had chances for more practice.
Overall play is bad throughout the league.
Yes, every team is dealing with the same situation – and is practicing much less just like the Blazers. This accounts for the poor and inconsistent play that has plagued almost every team in the league.
I hope Dave chimes in on this one...
Without cable, I don’t have much opportunity to watch games. Given that caveat, it seems that much of our poor guard shooting results from a lack of good assists. You know the kind that hits players in the wheelhouse while they are on the move to the basket. While Felton, who I have supported, gets most of his 7 assists the easy way – hit Aldridge standing at the elbow so he can make his jumper over his defender. Wouldn’t our shooters shoot better if they had better feeds?
If so, how much of this is a Felton issue and how much due to Nate’s offensive schemes?
BTW, I am not on the get-rid-of-Nate bandwagon. I agree with Dave’s macro view. Much of this bandwagon feels to me (there I go Canzanoing again) like the calls for Pop to step down in the ‘98/99 season in San Antonio. Coaches’ flaws are magnified to their fans and their ability to change isn’t. Lack of practice is stunting many teams development, not just ours.
Skyrim is indeed totally awesome.
But there is no way to play it and follow the Blazers this season. In fact, I’ve skipped a few Blazer games in order to [redacted as not to spoil it for Dave].
"Anybody might guess beforehand that there would be blunders of the ignorant. What nobody could have guessed, what nobody could have dreamed of in a nightmare, what no morbid mortal imagination could ever have dared to imagine, was the mistakes of the well-informed." - G. K. Chesterton, The Common Man
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Actions -> Rec and Flag. Blazersedge works right when you use these two things.
And yes, I ignored everything else everyone said.
"Anybody might guess beforehand that there would be blunders of the ignorant. What nobody could have guessed, what nobody could have dreamed of in a nightmare, what no morbid mortal imagination could ever have dared to imagine, was the mistakes of the well-informed." - G. K. Chesterton, The Common Man
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Actions -> Rec and Flag. Blazersedge works right when you use these two things.
I disagree Dave.................
Even though , ‘it is what it is" people don’t see it. And so it goes…………..
We must endeavor to persevere.
I don't get these comments
If you read these comments, and didn’t know what the Blazers’ record was, you’d think they were one of the worst teams in the league. They’re actually doing well, I don’t know what all the complaining is about.

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