Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Trent Richardson Interviews Fellow Brown Brandon Weeden

Batum should start at SG. Why not?

In my opinion Batum is the 3rd best overall player on our team behind LA and GW. Crawford is 4th...With that being said, Crawford is the 6th man, and an ideal one (So we thought...). I love Wesley Mathews, and he is solid, consistent (was...), and plays his butt off. But, lets just be real here, he is the 7th or 8th best all around player on the team. Of course thats not all that matters when it comes to whom starts, but what i notice from Batum is that if he starts or gets heavy run early he gets in a groove, and has a chance for breakout games. Everyone says he can't create off the dribble, but it's because he doesn't get a chance enough to prove it. In France he dropped like 19 per game. On the National team he is the go-to-guy alongside Parker, and that is competitive basketball.

I don't see why you don't slot him in at the 2 and move Wesley to the bench. Wes is more of a spark guy that doesn't need to get into the flow of the game. I think he is best suited with Crawford and the second unit. Plus, lets be real, Crawford is done after this year. He won't be coming back. Sorry to be Debby Downer, but he will be moving on. He is already getting bombarded for basically doing what he has done all year career. His % is down a bit, and he is turning over the ball a little more, but besides that, this is Jamal Crawford. And for that matter, this is Raymond Felton. "They are who we thought they were". Once again, expectations got the best of Rip CIty Fans. With that being said about the departure of Crawford after this year, I think that puts Wes in a position to be our 6th man of the future, a roll that is better suited for him in the long run. Batum is a starter in this league, and you might as well put him in now. He can defend the 2 as well as Wes, shoot as well, and create off the dribble as well. I'd like to see the minutes break down something consistently like this come year end and playoff time...or now.

Felton - 30

Batum - 32

Wallace - 36

Aldridge - 38

Camby - 24

Crawford - 24

Wes - 24

Rhino - 20

Thomas- 12

Comment 19 comments  |  4 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Couple problems

First, I wouldn’t put Wes and Nic on the same level for wing defense. Wes is faster, and can be more physical with smaller guards. He’s our best defender on the wing, and we ask him to guard PGs quite a bit. As much as I love Nic (he’s my favorite player) he can’t guard the stephen currys and ty lawsons of the world. It’s just a size mismatch. Plus, in a starting lineup of Felton, Wallace, and L.A., he’s still not going to get many looks, even if he gets more minutes.

SG is simply not his natural position. His handles are improving, but Wes is still better in this department as well. Please believe that while international basketball is competitive in its own right, it’s not close to NBA play. You’re dealing with elite defenders, night in night out. Nic was the best player on his team in SLUC Nancy, and was twice (or more?) named player of the week in the league. That reflects well on Nic, but it should also tell you about the quality of the the play there. International play is similar; rarely do you play the Spains and the U.S.‘s of the world. Having big games against Latvia and Israel doesn’t buy you much street cred.

Lastly, the rotation just doesn’t work out that way. Neither Wes or Crawford are PGs, even though we’ve been playing Crawford there a lot. That’s why his turnovers are up. I think that’s also why we started giving Nolan Smith a little bit of time. Expecting Crawford to effectively run point every night is wishful thinking. He’s a good distributor, but he’s a shoot first guard. When he’s playing PG, he’s got to find his own shot way more often. Since he’s a monster in the 1on1 game, this is ok some of the time. But we’ve effectively eliminated the potential of catch-and-shoot scenarios with him. I haven’t seen him run a pick and roll very often either. It’s just iso and drive the lane. I don’t think that’s what you want from your PG.

And if Nic starts, who’s backing up gerald? We just went from a fairly deep team to not deep enough. We could slot the rhino in there, which then moves Thomas to the 4 behind Wallace. Then we put in CJ for Camby? That’s a tough pill to swallow. Or, we put Luke in at the 3? Either way, it’s a huge letdown in the second unit.

I love Nic, I want him to start eventually, and I want him to be a big part of our future. I own one jersey, and it has #88 on it. And right now, my best hope is for Nic to get to a place where he’s a legitimate and consistent 6th man. Our bench should be pouring it on opposing benches and upping the lead. Everyone plays better when they’re given more minutes. But truly gifted and elite players, on elite teams, are efficient with the time they’re given. Right now, we need Batum to fill that role.

by nudicles on Jan 26, 2012 11:10 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

A rebuttal

a) Felton is guarding the other team’s point guard, and doing a decent job of it in my opinion. But Nick has guarded point guards, like Nash, before and done quite well at it. Besides, nobody can keep up with a player like Lawson. That’s why Lawson is so good.

b) Shooting guard is just not his natural position, huh? That’s not an argument to me. Sure he is. He can defend and handle the ball well enough, he is a shooting guard as far as I’m concerned.

c) I agree, Nolan Smith should play more. That doesn’t have anything to do with Nick starting or not, IMO.

d) “The rotation just doesn’t work out that way.” It’s not working out too well right now, is it? No way Rhino can play the 3, but how many teams have a back-up 3 that needs to be defended exceptionally well? If there is such a team, then Gerald and Nick can take turns sitting out. Doesn’t seem like a probelm to me. Right now, teams are beating us because we can’t shoot for our lives, not because their backup 3 is killing us.

e) The offense isn’t flowing with the 2d unit, and that is hurting Batum because he thrives on team basketball. So if McMillan is going to continue to insist on playing Crawford backup PG, that is not going to work well for Nick. But, that’s not really the problem, is it? The problem is one of our best players and shooters is only playing 22 minutes a night. Disgraceful if you ask me.

by DannyYoung on Jan 26, 2012 11:30 AM PST up reply actions  

An addendum

“The rotation just doesn’t work out that way.” I see no reason why not. Batum/Wallace start the 2/3, Batum leaves early much like his earlier days starting and then it’s Matthews/Wallace, then Batum comes in for Wallace and it’s Mattews/Batum, then Wallace comes in for Matthews and it’s Batum/Wallace again. Rinse and repeat.

Admittedly I have extensive video game basketball experience that Nate might not be privy to, but we can’t expect everything right?

by Batumshakalaka on Jan 26, 2012 12:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Not a bad 2/3 rotation

But that mean’s you’ve slotted Felton/Crawford at the 1, and I think that severely limits what Crawford can do. You’re also taking away from Crawford’s minutes, since he usually goes in for Felton and then slides to the 2 when Nolan comes in.

Batum gets more minutes in this scenario, but so do Wallace and Matthews. That’s a lot of wear and tear for 3 key guys (particularly Crash), especially in this type of condensed season. We have a lot of depth at guard, and a bonafide 6th man in Crawford. I think if we want to win, we have to use that depth.

I totally sympathize with what you guys want to do. I want Batum to be a pillar of this franchise and retire a Blazer. But putting Batum at the 2 is a sign of desperation to me, slotting a square peg in a round hole, especially when we already have two great SGs (read: better than Batum at the 2) in Matthews and Crawford. Sure, he can play the 2, but if we’re calling ourselves an elite team, he can’t be the answer there.

I would rather see Batum start over Crash, or Crawford start over Matthews with Batum getting the lion’s share of 6th man minutes and shots.

by nudicles on Jan 26, 2012 2:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe starting Crawford is the answer

If only he could be persuaded to not hold the ball and chuck it every time he touches it.

I see what you are saying about squeezing the backup 2 minutes, but that seems less important than putting the best players on the court and letting them play together.

And whatever needs to be done about Batum getting more minutes, it needs to be done. I don’t think that Matthews is a better 2 than Batum, considering both offense and defense. So, bottom line, Matthews and Batum should switch rolls, if nothing else. Heck, we know Matthews can guard most any backup 3 in the league, so it really shouldn’t be a problem.

by DannyYoung on Jan 26, 2012 3:21 PM PST up reply actions  

But I haven't heard a viable alternative.

a and b) The question isn’t whether Batum could potentially guard these guys. The question is, how do you want to defend as a team? I’d rather put Matthews on their best guard and save Batum for a Dirk or a KD, where his length is a real asset. And I think anyone you say Batum can guard, Matthews can guard better. In a starting lineup with plenty of firing power, do you want to trade defense for offense? Handling the ball “well enough” doesn’t earn you the starting 2 spot in the NBA, not if you want to win.

c) Ok, fine, so we start Batum at the 2. You tell me. How does Nolan Smith get minutes? You have Matthews and Crawford coming in to take Batum and Felton out. Do we take away from Crawford or Matthews minutes to get Nolan time?

d) You haven’t given a real alternative rotation. You can’t have it both ways. If Nic is playing the 2, then who backs up the 3? We can’t have no one in there, even if the opposing team has a no-name coming off the bench (and I’d warn against dismissing backup 3s in this league, Brandon Rush filled that role nicely yesterday). The only person I see is Babbit. Are you saying that we’re better off with Babbit coming off the bench playing the 3 than Nolan Smith playing the 1? Or are you saying we go VERY small with matthews in at the 3?

e) I’m the biggest advocate you’ll find for getting Batum more minutes. But I wouldn’t sacrifice team play to get Batum’s numbers up. If the 2nd unit is doing poorly, you shouldn’t take away one of your best assets. We NEED the 2nd unit to do well if we’re going to win games. If you’re giving minutes to Batum, who are you taking them away from? Matthews? He’s the only one that’s been hitting from downtown with any consistency, and he is currently our 2nd leading scorer. Best case scenario, you replace Matthews scoring with Batum’s scoring, and you break even.

by nudicles on Jan 26, 2012 2:40 PM PST up reply actions  

I wholeheartedly agree

I’ve been saying this for a month. Wes is a better player, just as capable at defending wing players (respectfully disagree with the commenter above), and most importantly he shoots better and has become a more reliable, consistent offensive player than Wes. And, frankly, coach McMillan is looking like a complete fool for not playing Nick more. I am more than frustrated with McMillan for this and for his rotations this season. But, yeah, Batum should definitely start. He’s just a better player and more of what we need in the starting lineup. His ability to play within the team offense is no joke, and his shooting is just better. Plus do you know how big and athletic that makes our starting lineup? Jeez. It’s just a little exasperating.

by DannyYoung on Jan 26, 2012 11:23 AM PST reply actions  

I'm not sure who's a better defender

But they are certainly different types of defenders, and they will excel against different offensive players. At the very least, they should be rotated to keep the offense thinking and continually frustrated with physicality and length. Of course Wallace does both, but he’s very useful for weakside help defense and def. rebounding as well.

by Batumshakalaka on Jan 26, 2012 12:53 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't like what it does to our bench rotation

Nic needs 30+ mpg minimum in my opinion, but I don’t think starting him at the 2 is necessary to do it.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jan 26, 2012 11:42 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

I agree

Give him a bigger role on the team

by Daddygr33nJeans on Jan 26, 2012 12:17 PM PST up reply actions  

So you want to torpedo Wesley's confidence.

I know I’m just some guy on the Internet but Nic is not good enough at dribbling to be the second best ball handler on the floor at any given time. This is the bigger issue than pigeon holing players into positions. Nic would be fine at the 2 if we had a 3 like the Turk or Paul Pierce.

by Oden Mad, Oden Smash! on Jan 26, 2012 5:15 PM PST via mobile reply actions   1 recs

I want to see

more minutes for Nic, but I think that can be done from the bench.

The last few nights, Nic has gotten minutes with the starters and his play has really picked up. The second unit just doesn’t have much flow with Smith, Smith, and Crawford calling there own number almost every time. That said, Nic’s versatility makes him a better fit for the bench than Wes. Nic can defend 2-4 depending on the match up while Wes really only defends 2s.

To me, the question really is about giving Wes too many minutes. His defense, shooting, and ball handling are not good enough to justify 8-10 more minutes a game than Nic. Really the two should be about equal in minutes at just under 30 a game.

The more I watch the more I feel bad for Nate, I just think he has a rather limited vision for the game (much like he did as a player) and I don’t think he “gets it”. Great guy, and a good leader…but not the right coach for a team invested in the draft like the blazers are.

by ripcitymilehigh on Jan 26, 2012 7:14 PM PST reply actions  

For starters

Because he can not dribble, create or shoot of the drive or dribble

La Illaha Illallah Muhamadur Rasulallah

by AbuFatimah on Jan 26, 2012 8:11 PM PST reply actions  

The extremes of opponents

Batum has effectively guarded both Tony Parker and Kevin Durant. I didn’t say he “stopped” them, but compared to Matthews, the PGs, and Wallace, he can D up against a variety of players AND — more importantly — D up on all the switches that the Blazers do.

It doesn’t mean that Matthews plays only 24 minutes nor should Batum. It does mean that Crawford plays little or none at SG, because both Matthews and Batum are better for the team (playing both ends) than he is. That is the miscalculation made by CoachMac.

by HoopsFan on Jan 27, 2012 11:46 AM PST reply actions  

Interesting debate

Has anyone else noticed though that when Little Nicky has his better scoring nights the Blazers typically LOSE. Games when he scores 14 pts or more the Blazers are (after tonights game) a miserable 3-5. On the other hand when Wes scores 16 or more the Blazers are 7-1. My general take in this similar sample size is that a good night for Wes is more important to Blazer success than a good night for Nic.

by ebnerblazer on Jan 27, 2012 10:19 PM PST reply actions  

You could also say that what you conisder a good night for wes should be average for a nba starting sg

If you are a nba starting caliber sg and you play over 30 mpg you should be averaging 16-18 ppg

Thats 6 made field goals and 4-5 ft attempts and thats not even adding 3pt shots into the equation

Right now I would say that over the past 5+ games Nic and jamal are outplaying Wes and Felton . Nate has already said previously that he likes the big lineup with jamal and Nic in the backcourt .

If Wes and Felton do not pick up there play over the next few weeks I would not be surprised if we see a lineup change by the all star break

Right now our starting lineup is going

Camby- playing to expectations defense/rebounding
LA – playing to expectations
Crash – is a virtual no show on the road and playing well below expectations there
Wes – is a virtual no show on the road and playing well below expectations there as well
Felton – is playing well below expectations at home and on the road and already seems to have run out of gas .

Thats 3 of 5 starters you cant win a ton of games like that .

If things continue as is Nic and Crawfords minutes should rise whether they start or not while Crash,Wes,and Feltons minutes all should fall .

Right now I would have to even consider starting Crash at home and Nic on the road because Crash has been that bad on the road

by Willie Beamon on Jan 28, 2012 8:07 AM PST up reply actions  

That's one way to look at it

Another might be that on nights that Batum gets more minutes/touches on nights that the Blazers offense becomes completely stagnant. I would expect that Jamal has similar numbers.

Also, Matthews best play is off the ball, so his best games are going to be when the offense is flowing smoothly and he is getting good looks from the three. Simply said, Wes scores more when the Blazers are playing better. Most likely Wallace fits the bill here as well.

by Batumshakalaka on Jan 29, 2012 1:56 AM PST up reply actions  

Yuck

“might be that Batum”

by Batumshakalaka on Jan 29, 2012 1:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

The ultimate coverage and analysis of the Portland Trail Blazers.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
A Junkless Proposition - Five-Two-Six-Two-Aught-onetwo.
Small
Consensus Mock Draft
Photo_3__small
JD 5/22
Bns_small
You're The GM. Whats your move?
Small
Hard to be a fan of a team that is so poorly managed.

Recent FanPosts

Small
My dream is the Blazers signing Jeremy Lin
Small
Would you do this trade? Lowry, Okafor, #4?
Small
Keep an Eye on Great Britain
Small
two options with $20 mill cap space, the #6 pick and some luck
Batum_small
Alternate 2012 Olympics Team
Small
Collective mock draft
Small
GM Poll: K Love or L Train
Small
Off season ideas

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Assistant Michael Malone interested in the Blazers
The LeBron James Conundrum: A Legacy In Question
Shooting percentages as they apply to certain areas of the court.  Note who one of the best shooters in the NBA from the wing is.  Check out the guy dominating under the hoop as well.  Pretty impressive for a 6'9'' guy.
Fernandez: Joel Freeland Faces July 10 Deadline For Contract Buyout
Church of Basketball: An Interview With Dave

Recent FanShots

Perry Jones III story
Jalen Rose on D'Antoni
Isiah Thomas hoping for return
Ferry in mix for vacant Portland GM job
Where's The GM?
Orlando Magic has decided to trade Dwight Howard
If the Sixers are eliminated by the Boston Celtics in Game 7, the general...
Interesting Quotation from Chad Ford RE: Morway and Rebuilding
Malone is a winner...
Lamarcus aldridge first nba game

+ New FanShot All FanShots >


Editors

Kitten_small Dave

Headshotsmall_small Ben Golliver

Lead Moderators

Getfuzzy-satchel_small Timmay!

Bucky3_small Cablinasian

Authors

Plainlc_small Storyteller

Moderators

Lamb_small T Darkstar

Small douglast

Terryporter_small prezofdeath

Small usmcr3049

Lrg_magpie_small Corvid

Wallpaper_small geoffm