Transcript: Blazers Acting GM Chad Buchanan Takes Questions On Failure To Extend F Nicolas Batum
Here's a transcript of comments made by Portland Trail Blazers Acting GM Chad Buchanan on Wednesday night after the team failed to reach a contract extension agreement with forward Nicolas Batum, who is now on track to becoming a restricted free agent this summer.
Buchanan's major talking point, which he repeated a number of times: The Blazers continue to value Batum and the failure to reach a deal doesn't reflect the team's opinion of him as a player or future key piece.
How did the last couple of days of talks progress? What developed and what didn't?
"I don't want to get too specific. I will tell you that from our very first meeting to the last in-person meeting we had, which was yesterday, we obviously had a lot of dialogue. Very amicable negotiations. We have a lot of respect for [Batum's agent] Bouna [Ndiaye]. There's a lot of goodwill on both sides.
"Even though we didn't come to an agreement on a deal, we had a lot of good discussion of Nic's long-term goals and things like that that give us a good indication of where things are going with him. What he wants moving forward. The fact that we didn't get a deal in no way reflects how we feel about Nic. It's part of the business right now that we didn't come to an agreement. Hopefully come next summer we'll find something that makes sense for both sides. Or, if we have an offer sheet, then we'll make a decision at that point."
What is it that Batum communicated to you that he's looking for? Playing time, a specific role, or were you referring to the money?
"It's a combination of everything. Typical of a young player, they want to feel a big part of the team and Nic has been a big part of our team and hopefully he is moving forward. They want to grow as a player and I think that's important, especially for a young player. Nic likes it in Portland. He's very comfortable with our organization and city. Trying to become the best player he can be is important to him and it's important to us too.
"At the end of the day [not reaching an extension agreement] was a possibility going into it. We were prepared for it, Nic's side was prepared for it, that's just how it played out. It does not in any way reflect on how we feel about Nic or how Nic feels about our organization. It's part of the nature of how our business is set up. It doesn't reflect in any way on how we feel about him."
What was owner Paul Allen's role in this negotiation? Did you present him with a recommendation or an offer to give a thumbs up or thumbs down on?
"He's involved in any decision we make. We keep him involved on the progress this team made and the nature of the talks. Keeping him up to date. Obviously we present a recommendation to him. Ultimately it's his decision but we have made recommendations and we've all been on the same page with where things are at on our side. Ultimately he allows us to make recommendations to him. That's how it played out, just like it did at the Draft and free agency. We want to get his input obviously because it's his team and make sure he's involved."
Batum's agent Bouna Ndiaye said your offer was not "fair." You don't hear that coming out of every negotiation. Do you feel that you made a "fair" offer?
"I can't speak for their side. We know how they feel. I wouldn't want to get into too many details about it. We feel like it was a fair offer but that's just part of the bigger negotiation sometimes. There's a gap in there and there just happened to be a gap at this time. I wouldn't want to speak for their side on that. We still have strong feelings about Nic and I hope to see him be a valuable contributor like he has been and help us out this year."
You said there was a gap between the two positions. Would you say the offer sought by Batum and Ndiaye was reasonable? Was there some back-and-forth or was this the kind of gap that was never going to get closed during the season?
"It was a typical negotiation. There was some back-and-forth on it. Obviously Bouna is going to look out for his client and we're going to look out for our business at the same time and try to come together on a number that made sense at this time. It just didn't happen. We hope that come this summer [it does happen and] we are aware we'll have a decision to make [if there's an offer sheet]. We still have strong feelings about Nic. Bouna is just trying to look out for his client. We understand that and respect that."
What factors were weighed most heavily in crafting your offer?
"We started with the fact that we had strong feelings about Nic as a player and person. When you're going through a negotiation on something like this you consider everything. You're looking at his role on your team, his long-term potential, his production up to this point. Just everything. How he fits with your team. Nic's been a really good piece for us during his time here. We think that he can be moving forward for a long time and hope that he is."
How would you respond to critics who say that you've been saying those same things about valuing him since December and then didn't deliver the extension?
"Just because there's no deal made, I don't think that reflects that we don't value Nic. There's a lot of teams that value their players who are going to restricted free agency next summer as well. That's just a real part of our business. Lots of times a guy coming out of his rookie deal -- only five guys that I'm aware of were extended by the deadline today. I know there are a lot of teams that like their players but this just the nature of the business. Just because we didn't reach a deal with him in no way reflects that we don't value Nic. We're going to continue to value Nic."
Why did you come out so strongly in the preseason press conference praising Nic and his importance to the team? Was that a part of a negotiation strategy, a desire to make it clear to Nic that he was a priority, a message to the fans or something else? To hear that message and see his diminished playing time and now the lack of an extension has thrown some people for a loop. Did you maybe underestimate Gerald Wallace at that time?
"Nic has always been a valuable piece of our team. He's still a valuable piece and hope that he is for awhile. Gerald playing well at the beginning of the year obviously has some impact on Nic's minutes a little bit because those guys are playing the same position. Nic has had some terrific games for us. I think he's still a very important piece of our team.
"What we communicated at the beginning of the year is true. We have strong feelings about Nic and where he can be long-term and the type of player he can be for us.
"Part of is that he's still a young player. You've got to remember this guy just turned 24 years old. He's still a growing and developing player. To put super high expectations on him can sometimes be unfair for a young player. For Nic, adjusting to a different role than he had on his team in France can be a little bit of an adjustment period and I think he's starting to get settled into his role on this team. Tonight he played well and I think we're going to continue to see him get comfortable with this team and play well."
Has he been in his own head because of the negotiations?
"I don't know. Our guys, we have had such an up-and-down season so far. I think it's a reflection of that. I think all of our guys have had moments where they've struggled at home or on the road. I think people may be keeping a closer eye on Nic because of his contract situation which might be unfair to Nic. I think he's handled everything very well. He's a very professional and first class person.
"We try to support him and we communicated with him how we feel about him. I've been getting through the peaks and valleys of the season is a challenge for anybody. Whether this weighed on Nic on the court or not, maybe it did to a certain degree, but I thought he handled it very well and very professionally through all of this."
Do you expect him to be a highly-coveted guy in free agency?
"I think there will be some teams out there that like Nic. Any time you have a young player who is still developing, has played for a good team like we've had for the last few years, he's going to generate some interest. We're very well aware of that. I'm sure there will be several teams that have some interest in him next summer. We anticipate hopefully being able to negotiate with Bouna and, if there's an offer sheet, then we'll make a decision if we want to match or not."
How does your decision to hold firm with whatever your offer was to Batum fit into your larger-scale strategy? Was this about flexibility or about timing or something else?
"You always have to look long-term with your business just like any other business. Basketball is no different. We have the potential to have some flexibility next summer which is attractive to us. At the same time we do value Nic and ideally would keep him, come to a deal that makes sense for you and allows you to maintain some of that flexibility is great. We also know there's a possibility that it wouldn't. We value all of our guys on this team right now.
"We have several guys that are going to be coming up that we're going to make some decisions on next summer. Just kind of something that for us during the free agency process that we were looking at. Having some flexibility next summer to do some things with this team. Let things play out this year and see how this team comes together and see how we play and make some decisions next summer because having flexibility in this league and having new rules with the new CBA, you have to work under and plan for, it all fits in to the bigger picture of planning for this team and organization moving forward."
Is it fair to say the decisions you're talking about are "either/or" decisions? Are you ready to say that you won't be in a position to bring back all of the guys who have contracts coming up?
"It's a little too early to say. We want to continue to evaluate our team. Depending on some things you just don't know at this point. What some guy's value is going to cost. Raymond [Felton] is an example, trying to figure out what's going to be a number for him that's fair. Gerald and Jamal [Crawford] obviously have options, if they want to opt out they have that option in their contracts. Marcus Camby is coming off the books with an expiring contract, what's a fair number for him if we choose to keep Marcus?
"We've planned accordingly to have flexibility because remaining competitive is important to us but also being fiscally responsible is also very important to us. We are a business and we want to be smart with what we do from a financial standpoint."
Larry Miller reportedly said that you have been in talks with Joel Przybilla about a possible return.
"I stay in touch with Joel quite a bit because he's a close friend. We're at 15 contracts right now. I'm just keeping up to date with where he's at with things, if he desires to play again or not, but mostly just from a friendship standpoint of talking to him a lot."
Nothing imminent or close to imminent?
"Nothing imminent. Nope, nothing at all."
-- Ben Golliver | benjamin.golliver@gmail.com | Twitter
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This just leaves a bad taste in my mouth
It feels soooo shady. Batum deserves better, I wont be surprised if he bails if hes offered a starting spot somewhere else. And I couldnt blame him either, hes worked so hard and he 9th man off the friggin bench. Im not the sharpest tool in the shed but youd have to be blind not to see somethings wrong with this picture.
by cavejunctionblazer on Jan 25, 2012 11:37 PM PST reply actions
he can't "bail", we can match basically any offer.
#52
by greatestfall on Jan 25, 2012 11:38 PM PST up reply actions
yeah, we are a team in for some transition,
no need to saddle the team with an unnecessary contract at this point.
Let’s see whose still standing at the end of season. We don’t even have our ‘real’ GM.
I know I am hoping for some departures (no including Nic).
Or
He can sign offer sheet and bolt after 2013.
by The Penguin on Jan 26, 2012 9:57 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
yeah if he wants to play for a pittance for another year
seems like a big risk.
i keep dancing on my own.
it would be a bad move on his part unless he plans on having a huge year next year
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jan 26, 2012 10:06 AM PST up reply actions
There is something wrong with this

by cavejunctionblazer on Jan 25, 2012 11:41 PM PST up reply actions
There he is ladies and gents our 9th man of the year!
by cavejunctionblazer on Jan 26, 2012 12:00 AM PST up reply actions
and hes sitting on the bench
woopty woop—yep, dont worry guys—-everything is ok
by cavejunctionblazer on Jan 26, 2012 1:36 PM PST up reply actions
I feel like this outrage has happened before...
It feels soooo shady. Roy deserves better, I wont be surprised if he bails if hes offered a max deal somewhere else. And I couldn’t blame him either, hes worked so hard and he’s an all star. Im not the sharpest tool in the shed but youd have to be blind not to see somethings wrong with this picture.
by Risk on Jan 26, 2012 12:58 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You are not the sharpest tool in the shed
if you believe Batum is a max player.
I don't think that's his point
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
the team is being smart
we are set up well to restock next season if this group can’t get it done and I have no doubt Batums camp is seeking double digits per season which is CRAZY for him..
What some guy's value is going to cost. Raymond is an example, trying to figure out what's going to be a number for him that's fair.
Are negative numbers and option. Send him a bill.
Yeah, seriously
Felton and Crawford’s shooting percentages are painful.
"Coach said to always be careful around Greg, because Greg costs a lot and even the slightest amount of basketball can damage him." -- The Onion
The need for a GM is so clear
These negotiations are part of a bigger context.
A GM shapes that context. Right now, it is all hit or miss while looking over the shoulder to see what Paul Allen thinks.
Too true
And have you noticed that the “great acquisitions” that Chad Buchanan has made have been flops (except Kurt Thomas)? Rich Cho did better for us then Buchanan has. Get a freakin GM already. How cheap is Paul Allen?
by Blazer_Duck on Jan 25, 2012 11:53 PM PST up reply actions
I understand you are pissed, with reason,
but blaming it on PA’s ‘cheapness’ is misdirected.
We want a GREAT GM, so we don’t have too many painful decisions to endure.
I would blame it more on his inability to work with people then cheapness
He is not cheap. But he doesn’t let a GM do whats necessary unless it lines up perfectly with what he wants. He is the owner so he has this right, but he doesn’t know nearly as much about basketball as the guys he has fired.
Like Wes Matthews?
Craig Smith?
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jan 26, 2012 8:09 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
they signed matthews two weeks after pritchard got fired
matthews was pritchard’s guy, buchanan just put the papers on the table. still he did put them on the table, and matthews signed them.
by heybabydrinkyourmilk on Jan 26, 2012 9:30 AM PST up reply actions
even with that caviat
I know he played a part in the Wallace deal and I don’t think that Kurt Thomas, Craig Smith, and Jamal Crawford were bad pickups given our roster and contract situations. They managed to strengthen our team without handcuffing us for next summer.
Felton obviously hasn’t worked out yet but I don’t think that move will be consequential in the big picture.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Jamal over chuck hayes
when we needed a starting center to take pressure off camby was a pretty bad move.
high-volume bench shooters are much easier to find.
"Wide, girthy. Just like a Rhino. Sometimes my horns are visible."
I guess I didn't see it as an either/or
Chuck’s been banged up this year and he can’t shoot free throws. How many undersized bigs do we need? I’m happy with Rhino at the discount
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jan 26, 2012 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
we drafted nolan smith because we figured there would be better bigs in free agency than guards
then instead of a starting quality big that could move camby to the bench where he’d be more effective, we got two decent backups and spent our money on an inefficient chucker. we could have honestly just played E-Will at backup SG and camby’s rebounding off the bench would’ve made up for the missed shots.
"Wide, girthy. Just like a Rhino. Sometimes my horns are visible."
you might be higher on the Chuckwagon than I am
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I have to admit
I think we would have been better off not signing Crawford. EWill could have had the back up spot and developed all year long. He is one of our only returning players next year so it couldn’t have hurt. Though on paper this team looked pretty good, and still does. Just don’t think we will win anything this year of importance and the development would have been better for the future.
that's certainly a reasonable perspective
not gonna get any definitive argument from me on it
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Its hard to give a
definitive argument. Especially before the season is over. Shoulda coulda woulda is always a waist of time to argue, but fun at the same time.
He's a good starting center
Who’d probably also be fine off the bench if Oden came back. I don’t think it’s fair to say that his stats in Sacramento, probably the worst team in the conference, would be as bad playing for our squad.
I just wanted a starting center without paying over the MLE. Camby has been better this year than I’ve expected (he wasn’t playing so well at the end of last year), but he’s still risky for injuries.
Plus I really don’t like crawford, I was skeptical at first and now I hate the acquisition.
"Wide, girthy. Just like a Rhino. Sometimes my horns are visible."
hard for me to argue with any of that
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I disagree about Cho doing better than Buchanan
this notion that Cho came in and was allowed the full autonomy by PA to swing that Wallace deal is preposterous and everyone who knows PA knows it. Allen had a hand in that and so did Buchanan.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Bayless
Cho will be forever in my heart for trading Bayless. That day was like Christmas!!
by breakerfall on Jan 26, 2012 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
haha
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jan 26, 2012 10:33 AM PST up reply actions
meanwhile
Brandon Rush, who KP traded to get Bayless, is currently the best 3 pt shooter in the NBA.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jan 26, 2012 10:33 AM PST up reply actions
just another in the long line of marginal NBA players to become ridiculous marksmen in GS. Dorrell Wright and Anthony Morrow also spring to mind.
i keep dancing on my own.
no kidding
sheesh
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jan 26, 2012 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
Nolan Smith
Prime example.
by heybabydrinkyourmilk on Jan 26, 2012 7:53 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
ha, i guess i have forgot
which one is that?
by heybabydrinkyourmilk on Jan 26, 2012 9:28 AM PST up reply actions
Don't remember his name, he was our last pick I think we traded a pick for
I just remember tehre was a story about how he lied about his age and made ineligable or somthing.. i’ll have to find the story again
This tteam is embarassing
Seriously, you pay Wes Matthews $6+ mil a year, and you’re low ball offering Nic the Martell $5 mil per year. Its absolutely ridiculous. You know what though, it will be better for Nic in the long run. He will never develop under Nate. He has so many skills (he went to the post 1 time tonite, made a perfect pass out, and they never went back to it once. wth?) and all Nate does is have him spot up in the corner for 3s. Screw this franchise. I’m so sick of the mediocrity. “Well we’re going to have some cap flexibility this summer.” That doesn’t matter because no one wants to come here to play! You have to homegrow this talent, and Nic is one of those talents. Instead they’re trying to nickle and dime him (when talking about PA’s money) and are going to lose him to a team that is gonna offer him $10 mil per year like Gallinari just got.
And if this team re-signs Felton or Crawford, but not Batum, I’m done. Hell I’m already done. They’ve shown such little respect for the fans and their players, there really is no reason to support this team. They’re not loyal, so why should I be?
although i agree about nate's misuse of nic
this really is not cause for much concern. a lot of players who are better than nic have not received extensions.
this was the one shot the blazers had for signing him on the cheap. with PA’s pockets, there is no fear of losing him in free agency.
PHILLY!
EXACTLY
Look, Nic’s agent is upset because he wanted to get his client a huge contract and the Blazers didn’t budge because they’re not going to over pay when they don’t need to. The free agent market will decide the price and, reading between the lines, the Blazers will re-sign Nic unless that price is astronomically high.
It’s that simple. They don’t want to overpay. Especially with Crash starting at his position.
"Coach said to always be careful around Greg, because Greg costs a lot and even the slightest amount of basketball can damage him." -- The Onion
by RedUniInLA on Jan 26, 2012 7:52 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Wallace is better. There's that. Also,
Nic can’t create his own shot. You can’t just call every play for Nic when he’s out there. He deserves more looks but that’s Crawford’s fault for not being a real PG. Nate is never perfect, but this team is wing-heavy and Nic is last in the Gerald, Wesley, Nic triangle.
Come on, let's all hug it out.
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jan 26, 2012 12:39 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Wallace is better?
Wallace certainly has better games once in a while – but has overall inferior stats and less efficiency.
Plus, there is a strong argument that Batum would be a better fit working the high low with Aldridge (because Batum can shoot). Wallace’s power game is nice when it is going – but is it worth more than an ability to consistently hit open shots?
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 26, 2012 1:36 AM PST up reply actions
I'd say Wallace is better, yes.
Nic is the better outside shooter, as you point out, which is why I would start him so he can work alongside Felton and Lamarcus.
It’s complicated though. Nate is a damn good coach. I like to nit-pick, but I’m sure he has reasons for bringing in Crawford first, which has certainly hurt the team’s ability to run proper sets for Nic.
Come on, let's all hug it out.
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jan 26, 2012 8:28 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
yes wallace is better. The only area nico is better is outside shooting
Wallace is stronger, just as fast, and a better defender. Plus he is more agressive, even on his off days he still attacks teh hoop and attacks the other team. Nico on the other hand hangs out in the corner of the court on his off days. They both have been inconsistant this year
yeah Wallace is better
doesn’t shoot as well but the guy is an absolute beast
Nic is nowhere near Gallinari
in production or consistency and If we give Nic 10 mill a year we are shooting ourselves in the foot.
This guy just turned 23 actually
Mister buchanan…
If he is as good with mathematics, no wonder why they could not reach an agreement ^^
23 or 24 doesn´t matter, they still have strong feelings about Nick, value him, whatever.
Meanwhile they guy taking the shots is Crawford.
That's what Crawford does.
He’s not a PG. If Nic ever developed a handle he would be a part of every possession.
Come on, let's all hug it out.
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jan 26, 2012 8:29 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I would be very sad to see Nic go
He’s been my favorite Blazer since his rookie year, I’m not sure what I’d do if he weren’t wearing Red & Black anymore.
So do I. Moreover, he himself wants to be in this team.
But I guess the Blazers prefer to have more options in the off-season.
Probably to some extent it is more reasonable.At least from a business perspective.
YES
I’m totally agree with you. Besides, I’m not sure whether I’m going to support the Blazers or not if Batum is not with the Blazers anymore.
by sealer legion on Jan 26, 2012 1:09 AM PST up reply actions
nic is going nowhere
all this drama about him not getting an extension is much ado about nothing.
although chad not knowing his age is pretty alarming.
PHILLY!
Nic isn't going to take the Qualifying Offer (which is only around $3M). So we can match
any offer sheet he signs if we want. Therefore, this isn’t a big deal. It only hurts if we had wanted to trade him, in which case a higher salary for Nic could have brought back someone with a higher salary straight across. My guess is that we will look to trade Wallace instead of letting him walk away next summer, because we won’t want to give him a 4 year, $40M+ deal next summer. Then we will match whatever offer Nic gets.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jan 26, 2012 12:23 AM PST reply actions
I mostly agree
This is just business negotiations, we might in the end give Nic more money then he is asking, but OTOH, we may be matching a much lower offer, as a business why pay more then they have to, as Chad said, we have to let it play out.
I remember how upset the fans were on BRoy’s and LMA contract extension not being signed right away, only to have many of the fans become the turncoats when BRoy got injured. If Batum ends up injured or goes in the wrong direction with his development, would you want to be saddled with the long big contract that BRoy had if it is not necessary?
I have to agree with Chad, there are a lot of things in the air as this season unwinds and not even the most acknowledgeable armchair GM know how it will unwind. For instance, “Crash” didn’t get that nickname by accident, if he gets hurt or opt out, that would make for a much bigger contract for Nic. but if GW gets his away game problem solved then Nic would still be very valuable not not so much in a need. Therefore IMO, we have to wait to see how it turns out.
This goes true with Pryz. we don’t know for sure about Camby’s expiring contract, his injuries or if he is going to retire or what, but at the trade deadline he is a valuable asset and if we have Joel in the mist that might be a great business decision. There is nothing wrong with keeping all your options open until you have to make them.
hg
Yup
I have to admit, and I’m not sure if these were Ben’s questions(I assume) or just general questions from the press pool, but they did strike me as a little ridiculous starting about two thirds of the way through here. This isn’t an especially unusual situation or negotiation, and yet we see things like the sequence of four to five questions ending with this:
Why did you come out so strongly in the preseason press conference praising Nic and his importance to the team? Was that a part of a negotiation strategy, a desire to make it clear to Nic that he was a priority, a message to the fans or something else? To hear that message and see his diminished playing time and now the lack of an extension has thrown some people for a loop. Did you maybe underestimate Gerald Wallace at that time?
basically accusing Buchanan of lying earlier in the season purely to get Nic to sign and implying that their inability to agree on a deal is somehow a betrayal of trust. I’m no front office apologist, but this is a little much. The Blazers may value Nic highly, but just not as much as Nic believes he’s worth. Why is it implied that this is somehow sinister on the front office’s part?
good sign
we didn’t overpay. now we can let the market set his salary and see if it’s worth matching. he may remain affordable or someone might overpay but I’d like that to not be the blazers.
by colinmarsh on Jan 26, 2012 12:35 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I really don't think that this is anything worth worry over...
Based on the other prominent, recent rookie extensions the Blazer front office has negotiated, their track record is pretty solid. A lot of people were skeptical of the Aldridge extension when it was signed (myself included), but I don’t think anyone would say he isn’t worth the money they paid him. Similarly, a lot of people were also concerned about the low level of interest the Blazers had in wrapping up Oden for multiple seasons last summer. Again, their patience saved them a lot of aggravation during another lost season with minimal risk going into next summer.
Without knowing the gritty details of the Batum negotiations it’s probably to early to assume the worst here. If the front office decided they couldn’t in good conscience offer the type of deal Batum was willing to accept or one they felt would hinder them in the future, then they did the right thing by holding off.
It’s hard as a big fan of Batum’s game to see it happen, but overpaying him runs the risk of low cap flexibility and continuing mediocrity. Small market teams like the Blazers benefit more than others by negotiating smart contracts in terms of salary, production and fit. By any estimation, Batum is not the caliber of player you can afford to overpay.
by SabasTheHut on Jan 26, 2012 12:38 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Let's see...offer the moon now,
or match next summer? What’s the difference?
This just shows what we knew along: Nic ain’t Scottie Pippen. He’s really good, but just not worth top small forward money.
Come on, let's all hug it out.
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jan 26, 2012 12:41 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Wesley has been attacking btw.
Lost in the drama of this season has been Wesley’s continued progression. He and Gerald don’t deserve to sit in the bench, although I would start Nic just to get some shooting at the beginning of the halves.
Come on, let's all hug it out.
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jan 26, 2012 12:44 AM PST via mobile reply actions
and people don't realize mathews is just as young as batum
and has been in the league for less years. Hes still learning and developing his game as well.
you are correct, I guess i just look at them roughly the same age cuz 23-25 isn't a huge gap
but mathews is still younger in this league. and my piont was his development has been getting over looked I think.
because he has a lower ceiling
that’s just kind of the way it is. Nic is more athletic, longer, younger, plays more positions, and has the potential to be a major mismatch creator.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
He has that potential... but as the years have gone I'm starting to wonder more and more if he will ever reach it
I would love to keep batum if he reaches it. But im starting to think he never will, or needs a new start in order to.
remember that he's 2 years younger than Wes
also, we don’t get to know when we make these decisions whether he’ll reach it or not. All of these contracts are calculated risks. Wise front office moves occur when you get someone and they give you more value in return than what you signed them for or gave away to get them.
I think Nic needs opportunity and is worth keeping around, therefore I think it’s in our longterm best interests to lean in his direction over Wallace’s if it truly is an either/or choice.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I think for the right price its worth keeping him around
10 mil a year would be to high for him in my opinion. If you can get him for 6-7 I think thats a fair number right now for him.
And about the age, you are right he is 2 years younger, but rather than getting caught up with taht age I prefer to look at how many years in the league. The reason is players usually developed based on how many years they are playing against that level of talent. A 21 year old playing 4 years in the NBA should be ahead of a 22 year old rookie.
Wes had 4 years of NCAAB at Marquette with the likes of DWade
that Nic did not. I’m not trying to diss Wes, who I really like, but the eye test tells me that Nic has a lot more room to grow, and I believe that.
I also think 10 mil is too much for what it’s worth. I’d be happy with 6-7.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
yeah but everyone says the speed of college and the NBA are two different things
Nico also has years in euro, and national team play. I wuold think those easily are at a higher level then the college level.
that's fair
I think it has a different effect for each player. Nic killed Euroleague this summer, 25 mpg simply is not enough.
The way I see it we either need to commit to Nic and play him 30-35 mpg, or trade him because using him for 25 mpg ain’t right and it’s not how we get maximum on court value out of him.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I don't put much stock in killing the euro league for 1 reason only
so did rudy ;( haha
I do agree with your thought of he is beign wasted. Personally I dont think he will ever come close to a real star in this league, so in that view i would love to trade adn get some value for him. Resign wallace, and then either draft or bring one of our SF from europe over on a cheap rookie contract and then after wallaces next contract is up and he is set to retire that rookie player will be ready for his 2nd contract and ready to take over.
here's the problem though
I don’t see how keeping Wallace will allow this team to take the next step. What you get in return for Nic isn’t going to vault you into title contention, but you’ll be too good with a proven and expensive player to hit the lottery. I’d rather keep Nic, LMA, and Wes and be lottery bound for a year or two than commit to expensive veteran players that we won’t get over the top with barring a phoenix-like rise from Oden.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jan 26, 2012 10:15 AM PST up reply actions
I still don't think we will be lottery bound regardless which player we keep
And I don’t think Nico is going to push you over the top either. I think both players are good players on a good team. I feel wallace at teh moment is better, and thats why I keep him. I dont feel nico will turn into that dominate player that puts us over the top. At best I see him as a 3rd or 4th option on a good team. Question is could you deal him and get some draft picks from a bad team that coudl turn into lottery picks? that might be one way to go about it.
we're 11-8
that ties us for 8th in the West barely. I don’t think that stripping this team down around LMA/Wes/Nic keeps you in the playoffs, but I do think it retains young and good enough pieces where if you do get an impact guy through the lottery it’s a quick trip back.
It’s not about one or the other pushing you over the top. But if we can concede that, then keep the younger, cheaper one who will give you a much longer time window to build a contender.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jan 26, 2012 10:24 AM PST up reply actions
you know our fans though will push for the playoffs and demand the FO make moves to ge tus there
Thats how we are… So i think they will put enough talent around us, especially with some of the decent FA’s taht we will probably over pay over this summer that we will still be playoff bound.
then we have a major problem with the FO
it wasn’t that long ago that we did strip it down, hit the lottery, and come away with a championship caliber core derailed by injuries.
If Felton, Crawford, Thomas, Camby, and Wallace are all gone at the start of next year I will be okay with that. If we replace those players with other expensive veterans, or keep those players to keep striving for a goal we will not reach without Oden, then we need to have our heads examined.
I understand fans don’t want to see bad basketball, but we’d still have LMA, Nic, and Wes…and I for one would LOVE to see Nic with a real opportunity, I would enjoy watching that.
I like our team this year, I look forward to seeing it all play out, but there’s a reason so many of our contracts don’t extend past this coming offseason.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jan 26, 2012 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
I think our FO has been pretty dang good since the Matthews signing
I respect the balance they’ve tried to strike. We’re still good, still competitive, but have young pieces and major flexibility next summer. I’d hate to see that flexibility amassed just to piss it away.
I can tell you exactly how I feel about them next fall
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jan 26, 2012 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
"Wes had 4 years of NCAAB at Marquette with the likes of DWade"
When did that occur? Cripes, Dwyane Wade has been in the NBA since 2003.
"I Am Mine"
haha
clearly what I meant was “with the likes of DWade” in the sense that his tenure there still permeates the program. It’s Wademosis, AK…I’m surprised you’re not aware of it
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
We$ might still surprise us re: his ceiling
Right now he just looks like a streaky 2 that can’t create his own shot and gets on the floor for solid defense…that he only seems to play when he’s not tired. There’s something different there though. He keeps improving parts of his game that surprise me.
An example would be attacking the paint multiple times last night a a beautiful drive and kick. I didn’t even think We$ could see his teammates when he was trying to score let alone pass to them.
If Nico had We$‘s drive we’d probably have to give him near max money.
I like Wes too
I do think Nic has more room to grow though
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jan 26, 2012 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
yeah I agree with that
only thing stopping Nico is Nico.
he's only playing here because it pays better - so he wants a big pay day
Nic likes playing in France, he likes being there and playing ball there. If there wasn’t such a huge gap between what he could make there vs. the NBA, I don’t think he’d play here.
The thing is, you have Wes Matthews $7M/year. And Nic’s camp would argue he’s younger, more athletic, and has a higher ceiling. So what do you pay him? Is Batum worth $9M/year? I don’t think so. But finding a happy place $7.5-8M/year, I think it would be worth it.
by rip_city_swagger on Jan 26, 2012 12:45 AM PST reply actions
The only decision was postponement
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 26, 2012 1:31 AM PST up reply actions
Indeed
Let the market set Batum’s value….
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 26, 2012 6:51 AM PST up reply actions
Im guessing it either Wallace or Batum
If you let it get to the off season some team is going to throw Batum a 10 mil a year contract. I would rather they decide if they are going to match that now or trade him to get some assets back. In the end I believe its either Wallace or Batum not both.
"Almost all those politicians took money from Enron, and there they are holding hearings. That's like O.J. Simpson getting in the Rae Carruth jury pool." Barkley
by west coast viking on Jan 26, 2012 1:54 AM PST reply actions
Probably so
But don’t forget that Wallace has a players option, If he opt out then we would probably match any offer for Batum, but if Wallace chooses to stay, although I would go for Nic because of age, it does put the option of matching a high offer at a bigger risk, Utah anybody??
hg
Wallace will opt out, but that doesn't mean he doens't want to sign here
If we extended wallace we coudl have only offered him 2 more years onto his contract. But if he opts out we can offer him the whole 5 years. He only wants one more long term contract before retiring. He has made that clear. Him opting out is purely to get 1 more contract, it has nothing to do with if he wants to stay or not. He has said he wants to stay in portland and retire here. That would be his first optoin. So he is hoping the blazers resign him.
What im wondering though is how good are players like Claver looking? I only ask that becuase here is a different situation. What if we do let batum go, because someone offers him a big contract. Couldn’t we resign wallace, and then bring over claver on a cheap rookie contract to play behind wallace and learn the game. Then by the time wallace is getting ready to retire claver would be just getting into his second contract and ready to start. The timing works much better then the mess we have right now.
OK, I see about Wallace opting to opt out.
Time will tell on Claver, but I think they could use Batum as a 2gd and SF to give him more playing time and also to put him in when GW is having an off time. Of course that would mean that Nate is not afraid to stand up to his Veteran players.
hg
yeah
there’s really no reason why Nic can’t be getting more time, even with Wallace
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jan 26, 2012 10:54 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Oden will be FA at the end of the season
Not such a big deal if Freeland eventually lands here. Even tough the blazers will need another intimidator since camby is most likely to retire (or gone). I wish we could get seraphin, imo he is pretty cheap as wizard’s staff never really trust him (even if he improved obviously from what we could see from him in Europe and during last Euro tournament).
As for next summer, if wallace takes his time to extend, the blazers could definitely start the 2012-13 season without both wallace & batum (or with one of them, but on a very bad contract). Considering what this teams lacks, trading is a really good option. The risk is to see both wallace and batum leave for nothing in return (except salary cap). Then, whining about the bad picks, the lack of quality FA willing to join the team blablabla.
Wallace
Is on the downside of his career. You possible have 3qualoty years of a player who only gets up for games once in a while. I’m in awe at so foolish fans are with some of these guys. What we going to sign an off injured hustle player to a 4 year deal and watch his game go. Smart. While we’re at it sign rhino, he is the future, because he hustles? Seriously I dont know who is making decisions, my suspicions are Nate is running the show, but they are not basketball people. We are running on emotional dreams. Wallace is a good player on the decline, we are no where near a championship. Why would we go with him over nic. The answer, Nate. The all over 30 club soon.
Becuase not all of us our sold on Nico
Wallace at 3 more years may be better then what nico ever gives you. He has shown glimpses of solid play, but never has really shown consistant play. It is kind of telling when we say how great nico played yet he only gets like 16-18 points. When other players play great they are getting 25-30 points. Even mathews has gotten up there in games. I’m not trying to only look at points, but its just an example. He hasn’t had any games where nico has completely dominated even to show a glimpse he is capable of doing so. All I ever hear is he has the “tools” based on what he has done in france, well guess what even Rudy looked good over seas, and we know his ability over here.
that's because Nic impacts the game in a variety of ways
and he did have a 29 point game already this year…on the road
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I know, I forgot about that game momentarily.
It just worries me how some games hes so involved and looking good, and other games he stands in teh corner like hes in trouble. He should play the same always regarldess whether his shots are falling or not.
I agree
and it is definitely a concern with Nic. But I have a problem with his minutes this season. He’s down 7 mpg from last year, he’s our best 3 pt shooter at 40%, and he’s still putting up similar numbers to what he did last year in 31+ mpg.
I have no doubt that if Nic played 35 mpg as a starting SF he would already be averaging around 15 ppg.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jan 26, 2012 9:46 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Much Ado About Nothing
Batum, Wallace, Felton, Crawford, Camby, Oden, Thomas and the Rhino represent 8 players whose contracts need to be dealt with. The new CBA ensures that every team going forward will have to manage their CAP space and luxury tax issues better than under the old one. At the same time, we don’t look like serious contenders right now with this group, in combination with Aldridge and Matthews and the rookies or near rookies we have on the roster.
We cannot simply write the check that every agent will want for these players. Crawford made it known he wanted $8 million to $9 million, but no one wanted to pay it so we got him for the ME exception we picked up when Roy medically retired and we then amnestied him. And, frankly, I wouldn’t pay him $8 million or $9 million. Batum would like $8 million or so, Wallace probably $10 million to $11 million, Felton probably $8 million to $11 million, and Oden – whatever he can get. And, before the latest injury, people were willing to handout another $8 million to $10 million a year to him. And then we have Camby. What’s his value? And, who do you replace him with and what do you pay that player? Oden is unreliable and Camby is at the end of his career. So, do you sign someone to the pivot for $9 million to $12 million as well – on top of whatever you do or don’t do with Oden?
Batum is in his 4th year, regardless of age. He can’t take us to the promised land by himself. No one has refused to sign him, but right now through-out this league the new CBA is going to start to recalibrate salaries for all of these non all star (take you to the finals) types of players, and you can’t have 6 players making $8 million to $11 million a year plus Aldridge and Matthews on the roster.
So, take a deep breath folks. Teams have two choices. Try to sign now, or wait to see where the market goes next summer and match offers. If agents are demanding top dollar today, you have to decide if you pay it now, or wait to see (as happened with Crawford) whether or not anyone else thinks they’re worth top dollar next summer.
And keep in mind, this isn’t about Allen, Buchanan or Macmillan. Some of you will look pretty foolish next summer if you keep promoting paying Batum $8 million or whatever today, and find out that next summer no one will pay him more than $6 million – or less. And, when all of those in love with Nic get to the finish line next summer, keep in mind that he was thoroughly shopped last summer by Cho, and Cho could not get a top 10 draft pick nor a starter for him. He’s a nice player, and we’d all like to keep him. But we need a pivot and a PG as well, and we have two very serviceable players for the three spot in Wallace and Batum, and either one will fill that slot for the next 3-4 years very well. But – neither one will be the player to team with Aldridge to take us to the finals either.
by ebenc on Jan 26, 2012 5:18 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
While the thinking is correct..
… it is only theory. In a “real world”, you are assuming that all GM’s will keep in mind the new CBA and try not to overpay.
The reality for now is that some teams (i would say half of the nba franchises) are willing to pay big contracts to quality role player. Not necessary Denver.
As for crawford, maybe you considered him to be a good player on the FA market, maybe many GM’s thought he was over rated. So far, the reliable FA’s got their contract, minus chandler #1 (but he was trying ti get the royalties of his season in dallas), chandler #2 (who wanted a two digits contract according to the rumors last year) and couple more.
The current problem is that the blazers end up gambling on both wallace – willingness to stay here with a decent contract in lenght and amount – and batum – will we be able to match any other team’s offer, especially if we have to wait for wallace.
Gambling is cool, but in the end you could finish having to find quality sf, pg, c and sg (since matthews is certainly not the answer at that position). All of that without a lot of cap space and without decent draft picks.
I am not advocating the blazers should have paid whatever batum’s agent was asking. But history did not really proved that the blazers were offering big contracts to their forwards (both outlaw and webs had between 4 and 5M a year extension). If their proposal was, say, around 6M, it is no surprise if they could not find a deal. I would say nic’s value is around 7/8M on 3 years contract but we will see.
There will be a lot of “if” in the summer (kirilenko and khryapa goign back to the nba, what contract can chandler get, etc) but the ball won’t be in blazers’s hands.
Even if one GM does overpay him
if the alternative is between matching an oversized offer and pre-emptively giving him an over-sized offer, you go with the former every single time, because you preserve that chance that his market value isn’t actually what his agent thinks. Remember that both Andre and Crawford got much less money as free agents to come here than they were originally asking for when free agency started. We’re really not gambling at all on whether we want to keep Nic, only what his price is.
Great points
Also, if we offer Nic the big bucks and he comes up lame, then we have another BRoy contract on our hand. We may have to offer him big bucks to keep him, but OTOH, we may like (you said about Crawford) we might get him much cheaper, so we need to just let it play out.
hg
Rec
I hope the Blazers can keep Batum but I also hope Batum pulls his head out and plays good every night. Congrats to the Blazers for not blinking and overpaying and screwing up their cap situation. The new CBA is going to make it very dangerous to put a premium on potential.
Good for Nic..............
The sooner he gets away from Nate and the rest of the dysfunctional’s the better.
We must endeavor to persevere.
In the Ball Don't Lie Department
Nic by the Numbers:
1. 2nd in PER for Blazers playing over 20 minutes a game.
2. 3rd in FG% behind LA and Crash. You could make a pretty good argument that he is our second best outside shooter behind LA.
3. Easily our best 3 point shooter
4. 6th in shots per game, as to why is always debatable, but as I recall their is this thing called a COACH that could tell his team to feed their good shooters. That is if they are even on the floor.
5. Nic is a good defender, as to where he matches up against his teammates this year…I would say top 4.
6. Tied for 5th in minutes
I would say the ball don’t lie department nic is doing pretty well so far. if people do not think Nic is bringing it every night, well, this season he seems to be showing up a lot more often than some of the others that are playnig above him. BALL DON’T LIE.
Overall, it points to the fact the Blazers are a rudderless ship who do not have a plan going forward let alone from game to game. The running game sounds good but with the schedule as it is, it just is not a practical one. So we are left with JC and Felton launching from deep at %35.
As for signing Nic, hard to say without knowing what the plan going forward is at this time, but they need to find him the minutes he has earned by his play on this team.
Rudderless?
I would say keeping our flexibility going into a great free agent and draft pool is brilliant. Congrats to them for using their head instead of their heart.
by skott75 on Jan 26, 2012 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It's 'cause many people are overreactive and irrational.
"I Am Mine"
by AK1984 on Jan 26, 2012 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd be far more upset if we gave him 4 year, $40 million contract.
That kind of mismanagement is what kills a franchise.
The cake was a lie.
Well at least everyone can stop talking about Batum trades now.
I’ve noticed a propencity on the part of Acting GM Chad Buchanan to repeat himself over and over during run-on explanations. -Not a good sign.
It’s days like this I miss Kevin Pritchard, really it’s every day – the only guy around here who knew what he was doing. I’m wearing my my KP Miami Heat jersey today out of respect. How did I obtain such a valuable piece of attire? Because before he left town he traded it to me, for my house, my car, and all of my stuff.
by heybabydrinkyourmilk on Jan 26, 2012 7:48 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Strong feelings
Wow, Buchanan REALLY has strong feelings about Nic. That must have been on his KP list of “key points” to make in the interview…he said it in every response.
The reality is Batum can come or go. His play is sporadic regardless of playing time. I like the kid, but he’s not irreplaceable as a SF or SG. This offsaeason is all about flexibility, that much is clear.
Congrats to the Blazers and KP Lite for not caving in.
Yeah, you beat me to it.
“Strong Feelings” is one of those amorphous terms taken directly out of the KP handbook; like culture etc…
KP: “Just keep saying it over and over, it’s like hypnosis; they will respond positively to it.”
Chad: “Gotcha KP, I’ll do it when the time comes.”
Blunts and cupcakes...Bumble Bee's secret weapon.
While the Blazers can match any offer, I wouldn't be surprised if he leaves
What people may be forgetting is that Nic has the right to say “I don’t want to play here anymore, the team had a chance to extend my contract, I want to go play elsewhere”. Chances are the Blazers don’t resign him if this situation develops. And with how Nate has jerked him around from day one I wouldn’t blame him if things go this route.
Yes, Nic can be hot or cold. But I think so much of this has been due to Nate’s yo-yo use of him and how inconsistent his playing time is. He will develop into a much better player with the right coach. Perhaps not the next Scottie Pippen, but someone who could be a huge assett nonetheless.
Keep in mind this team doesn’t have a ton of assets, and guys like Felton, GW, and Camby are either getting older or underperforming in terms of their contract.
Right now it seems like PA is content to stay in one and done purgatory.
He can do that, sure
Of course, he could have also done it at any point in his career, as could any other player. Of course, outside of Vince Carter and Melo, these guys aren’t children and they realize it’s a business and will continue to play and play hard. For Nic to play elsewhere in the NBA he has to forego all offers next year and only play for the QO. If he decides that he hates Portland so much that he refuses to play, he’d probably have to sacrifice a lot of that salary to fines for not showing up. Plus, he’d almost assuredly be costing himself a decent chunk of money on his next contract by refusing to play/playing poorly. He’s not a superstar like Lebron or Dwight who will get paid no matter what.
So really, the question Nic would have to ask himself is, “Do I hate Portland enough to potentially give up something like $20 million guaranteed?” And while it’s easy to posture about that in negotiations, my guess is, not really.
I'm sure he would
And Chris Paul wanted to play in NY with Melo and Amare. Dwight wants to play in LA with Kobe. I’d guess Rudy wants to play with Ricky and/or Pau, but it’s still just a small factor in contract decisions, money being the largest one, especially for young guys who haven’t made that much money (relatively) yet.
I'm more dissapointed in the EMO blazer contingent
that overvalues every single foreign player who wears red and black.
The same argument (they will go somewhere else and flourish!!) has never panned out under the KP or KP-school regime (Sergio, Rudy, Patty). True, Batum is better than all of those. But for all of his brilliant chase down blocks, there are two enormous problems:
1) Consistency
2) He’s a terrible defender by any advanced metric, which is what NBA teams use.
Incidentally, mostly the same of domestic (Martell, Outlaw, Blake) as well.
AK1984 is right, this was the right decision. We can either package Batum with Camby for an impact big man or sign and trade Batum this summer if we desire.
advanced metrics
i hear a lot of talk about advanced metrics from three people on this blog. what would you call an advanced metric? it isn’t blocks, steals, or shooting percentage as far as i can tell…
by heybabydrinkyourmilk on Jan 26, 2012 10:24 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
2 big ones are
different forms of adjusted plus minus (how many points does the team allow when you are on the court vs not, adjusted for your teammates and opponents)
and
counterpart statistics, which is how efficiently the guy you are guarding scores.
i keep dancing on my own.
Okay
That makes sense then – the one on one (I wouldn’t call a general +/- "advanced" as there are a few holes in that one). Still, odd that so many of us Blazermaniacs think so differently about Batum, and in situations like last night when Curry was torching the team, or when Lowry was everyone calls for him. Thanks for the counsel.
by heybabydrinkyourmilk on Jan 26, 2012 10:42 AM PST up reply actions
I would also be interested to know
if the one on one took into account switching, as the Blazers pretty much switch on picks. Is it advanced enough to understand that when you switch on a pick, a players man then becomes someone else’s responsibility?
by heybabydrinkyourmilk on Jan 26, 2012 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
well supposedly Synergy (which creates the counterpart stats) calculates that stuff including how well the guy defends on switches, how well he defends roll men, how well he defends pnr handlers, but it is also very expensive to subscribe to, so I try not to rely on it too much.
i keep dancing on my own.
Huh, that does sound pretty advanced
I would be interested to see that myself. A guy like Wallace, who is a lock down one on one defender, but who gambles every chance he gets which often leaves his man open at the perimeter, requiring other players to then conquer space to get to them, and so forth. Hard to gauge something like that I imagine if the ball swings around three guys and the final one hits a wide open three. Is that on the final guy, or does it take into account the gamble.. not asking you these specifically here, but more thinking out loud. Thanks again.
by heybabydrinkyourmilk on Jan 26, 2012 11:18 AM PST up reply actions
I tell you where I see a gap....
….and it’s between how Blazer management is spinning this and how Batum’s agent is spinning this.
There’s a big difference between The Blazers “this is just business, and we still value Nic” statements and Bouna Ndiaye’s clearly threatening statements promising that Nic and himself will look at every other N.B.A. team before returning to The Blazers and Ndiaye’s statement that The Blazers offer was “unfair”.
If you look at both reactions, it’s clear there is a bigger gap than The Blazers would like us to believe.
But ultimately, I don’t think The Blazers made a mistake. You have to make a fair offer and then if Batum doesn’t take it? You go through this process. Evidently? That’s where we are. Basically, this summer the market or a competitor will set the value of Batum. Happens all the time in the N.B.A., it’s not uncommon.
Most fans want the “sure thing”. We want the player locked up as an asset. But over the years I’ve witnessed some horrible decisions and horrible contracts created out of that thinking. I don’t really have a problem with things unfolding this way.
Evidently The Blazers made Batum an offer he COULD refuse. Now this summer we will see what offers Batum gets.
Probably my biggest concern is without a formal GM? This is shaping up to be a very demanding off-season. Whatever happens I think there are a lot of things developing. Batum, Oden…and Wallace…plus whatever other moves The Blazers decide to make. My biggest fear is that it could be pretty overwhelming dealing with all the potential issues. It would of been nice to have the NIc Batum situation settled. But if it was at too great a cost? Then perhaps The Blazers had no choice.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
Honestly
Unless the Blazers really were offering something straight up insulting like $12 million over three years or something, I think Ndiaye comes off a little worse here. The fact that they didn’t accept the team’s offer doesn’t make it “unfair”, otherwise every negotiation would involve multiple unfair offers. If they considered it fair, they presumably would have accepted it. The Blazers simply have one valuation of Nic, Ndiaye and Nic have a greater valuation of Nic. Nothing wrong with that, and Ndiaye portraying it differently just comes off as petulant to me.
It must be terribly insulting for Ndiaye to actually have to find a team willing to pay what they’re asking for rather than just assume the Blazers were going to do it because Buchanan said he really likes Nic a couple months ago.
Obviously...
The Blazers by choice don’t discuss specifics. So I can’t offer an opinion as to how “fair” or “unfair” the actual offer was or was not.
But I can contrast post negotiation period comparison to how both parties are trying to spin the whole action.
The Blazers…putting up the YELLOW TAPE…there is nothing to see here…we value Nic….move along….see ya this summer……
Ndiaye….clearly being sarcastic and calling into question The Blazers commitment to Batum by making statements such as “They Say They Love Him BUT….” “They Had Their Chance”…“The Offer was Unfair”.
Ndiaye is clearly saying….there is smoke here..there has been a fire…
Seems to me, if things were as amicable as Chad Buchanan and The Blazers would like us to think they have been, and still are? Then Ndiaye could make far less provocative statements. You could make far less toxic sounding statements. I’m assuming Ndiaye chose the words and phrases he chose for a reason. He clearly wanted to sound adversarial.
And that, may mean nothing. BUT it is clearly opposite to how The Blazers are spinning this outcome.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
In MLB they have arbitration for these scenarios
I suspect Nic woudl come out closer the the Blazers figure if this were the case in the NBA
by breakerfall on Jan 26, 2012 10:34 AM PST up reply actions
Of course it's adversarial
They’re adversaries in this negotiation, so to speak. My point is that negotiations happen all the time without agreements getting initially reached, and you don’t hear this stuff. Maybe it’s because the Blazers were especially insulting with their offer, or maybe it’s something inherent with Bouna Ndiaye’s negotiating style/temperament. Given that there’s nothing especially distinguishing about this negotiation and that this FO has had amicable negotiations in the past with other players/agents, I’m more inclined to believe this is an issue with Ndiaye more than the Blazers.
This is by far his highest profile negotiation given his client list, so his inexperience may just cause him to be overplaying his hand some. If there were a history of acrimonious player negotiations with the Blazer front office, I’d blame them more, but outside of the initial hesitancy about maxing out Roy and ensuing drama, I can’t remember any.
Obviously not all of the principals were the same back then, but in recent years we’ve managed to negotiate extensions with LA, Webster, Outlaw, and Camby along with contracts with Wes, KT, Crawford, and Andre without anyone’s feelings getting hurt, so I’m a little incredulous that all of a sudden the front office is unable to conduct negotiations without insulting the player.
True...
,,,but The Blazers…Chad Buchanan would have us believe that negotiations ended with everyone singing Kumbaya….I’m hearing more of Rock Anthem from Batums agent.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
I dunno
I’m actually a little curious as to whether the Blazers have strong feelings about Nic after reading the transcript.
In all seriousness, I don’t doubt it, but Buchanan seemed to be describing a pretty typical negotiation with some inherent disagreement over value, not necessarily everyone holding hands and skipping off into the distance. Bouna definitely is a little more apocalyptic so to speak, but still strikes me as within the limits of reasonable agent bombast, if approaching the upper limit.
The problem is...
Coveted RFA’s always get paid a bit more than they’re worth – “market value” ends up being a bit inflated. Because if you just offer a guy what he’s worth, his current team will match in a heartbeat. I’m worried that this was our one shot to get Batum at a fair value, and someone will make him a big offer this summer because that’s they only way they’ll get us to not match it.
Then again, if Batum’s agent was already asking a high price and not coming down, it may be just as well to take our chances with him as an RFA. But it’s definitley a gamble.
Exacly.
Look at what Arron Afflalo just made this offseason…
We should have reached an agreement of around 7 million per year for 5 years and locked him up now instead of waiting for some desperate team like New Jersey throwing 11 million a year at Batum after they strike out in the Dwight Howard sweepstakes.
The smarter you are, the more likely you are to be tripping balls at any given moment.
/keep Batum/ /trade for Bogut/
I would have been happy with 5 yr/35 mil
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jan 26, 2012 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
how do we know the Blazers weren’t right around that number and Batum’s camp wanted 10+ mil/year like Gallinari got?
by jksnake99 on Jan 26, 2012 12:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
we definitely do not know
but I have a hard time seeing him getting 10 mil/yr as a RFA
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jan 26, 2012 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah
I’m guessing that’s what happened here. His agent is probably counting on it playing out exactly as above, and somebody throwing 10mil a year at him as an RFA. From their side, there’s no real incentive to accept a “reasonable” offer right now, unless Batum values the stability, injury protection, etc. more than the potential monetary payoff.
I'm guessing Nic's people are closer to that 11 number and
thats why he didn’t get a deal
An extension can only be for four years in length.
Well, unless it’s the supermax extension that KD and D-Rose received.
"I Am Mine"
no it could be for a designated player
westbrook got 5 yrs at the regular max, for example.
i keep dancing on my own.
Something else to consider
is that an agent has a fiduciary responsibility to his client. Among other things, this means that an agent is required by law to always act in his client’s financial best interest. In turn, this means that the agent must apprise the client of any “reasonable” offer made through negotiation (negotiation being part of the agent’s job) and advise the client as to the best options available. As an example, anyone who has ever bought or sold a house through a real estate agency knows, or should know, this, Bottom line, the decision to accept or decline an offer is always up to the client, and, of course, many things can enter into such a decision.
If I were Batum’s agent, I would have advised him to decline anything less than a top-dollar offer (after considering all the variables from past production to likely future worth to the team), opt for free agency, and test the market in the off-season. Nic has absolutely nothing to lose by going this route and as his agent, I would have met my responsibiity to my client.
On the other hand, as Buchanan said numerous times, it’s a business decision from the Blazers’ point of view. Paul Allen owns the business, so he gets to call the shots from that side of things. It seems to me that it makes perfect sense not to spend any more on player contracts than necessary, and the best way for him to find out what is necessary re Batum is to make a low offer, force Nic into free agency and then see what kinds of offers he gets next summer, at which time Paul will have more information, including such things as roster changes made at the trade deadine and whether Wallace and others opt out, on which to base a decision.
"Send lawyers, guns and money; the [nsfbe] has hit the fan." - Warren Zevon
Well summed.
The new CBA, coupled with the transition facing the Blazers made waiting and seeing the best strategy.
Come on, let's all hug it out.
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jan 26, 2012 1:06 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Not that I think we have a good chance
but it seems like we are trying to clear room for a major contract. Do we think we have a chance at DWill or Dwight? I have a lot of questions about next year, I just simply don’t see how we can really improve through FA. I wonder what the plan is? This could be a very interesting off season coming up.
no because we aren't on anyones wish list
Thats the bad thing about the “stars” that only want the big cities… I honestly think we need to be carefuly who we go after and really hard sell someone… maybe like an Eric gordan type player for example… Not a top tier star, but still a stud. Maybe we can convince a player like him to come to our team
Thats what I'm saying
I don’t think we have a chance at either of those guys, but it seems like we are trying to clear space to make a run at them.
I would say our only chance is to target the right guy and really hard sell him
If we go after that second tier all star right away he might feel swayed to come to us right off the bat, vs if we go after a D williams and then use our back up as gordon. If we know we don’t have a chance at D will lets go striaght for the guys we do.
I could see williams coming here
he wants to win and if we are patient we will be able to place a contender around him
hes already made his list of teams, and we aren't on it... he will end up in his home state playin gfor dallas
they alreayd started clearing cap for next year to get him
Of the two
I would say we have the best chance to get him. But I still don’t think we have a real chance at either one.
Maybe I missed something, but on ESPN one of their writers wrote this:
“Batum’s agent is already warning that his client will make himself available to anyone other than the Blazers this offseason. "
Now I’ll be honest I kind of skimmed through the above responses, but has anyone else see this.
Ndiaye said something along the lines of
“we’ll talk to 29 other teams first before talking to Portland”. It’s a stupid, pointless thing to say because the Blazers can match any offer of the 29 other teams. The more I read into this situation, the more I get the impression that Bouna Ndiaye is just a blustering gas bag with a tenuous grasp on reality.
Of course you’re going to talk to other teams, that’s what free agency is. At the same time, recognize that you have essentially no leverage to play elsewhere if Portland wants to keep him so you’re only hurting yourself by attempting to burn bridges with the organization.
Ya
the guy is showing that he is a rookie agent.
It makes me wonder
how things work in other countries regarding sports contracts. It seems like every foreign player we get trys to do this hardball we don’t need you tactic. Do they know that doesn’t work and just makes you look bad in the NBA?
The whole idea of restricted free agency
is fairly unique to American sports. The main international one being soccer, and free agency as we know it is an almost unheard of concept in it with the only guys ever leaving on a Bosman (soccer equivalent of free agency) being almost exclusively mid-30’s guys nearing the end of their careers (a la Beckham and Henry coming to MLS). I may be forgetting someone, but the last major under 30’s soccer star to leave via “free agency” was Sol Campbell, and that was a decade ago.
Of course, this is partially because teams inevitably sell players with expiring contracts rather than risk losing them for nothing.
doens't mean they can't demand a sign and trade
I only say that because if they truly are bent on leaving nick only has to play 1 more year without taking an offer and he can leave and do what he wants. With the amount of players demanding stuff now days I don’ tput anything past their ability to force front offices to do what they want.
no chance he takes the QO imo
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
if he doesn't take the QO, then he won't even be a restricted free agent right?
He would simply be in his last year of his deal and be unrestricted the next year… right?
yeah
but it’s a huge risk for him. He should sign the fattest offer he gets this summer and make the Blazers match or not match
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
which is probably what he will do... the question is if he gets a 10+ mil a year contract woudl the blazers match
I gotta think that at 10+mil/yr the answer is no
8-9 mil/yr and they have a decision to make. If the market sets his value at 6-7 mil/yr I think it’s a no brainer.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
We're going to offer the QO
if he doesn’t take it, then he remains a restricted free agent in perpetuity. His only other options are to sign an offer sheet with another team that we can then match, sign with us, sign with a non-NBA team, or find a new career. Until he does any of those thing, we retain all restricted free agency rights.
And even if he signs with a european team, the Blazers retain restricted rights with regards to his NBA career as long as we keep offering the QO every summer. Same as with Josh Childress and Atlanta. To become a UFA in the NBA, he has no option but playing at least one more year with Portland.
To clarify
Nic is already in the last year of his contract this year. If he doesn’t sign the QO, an offer sheet with an NBA team (that we could match), or a contract with a non-NBA team, he can’t be traded or play basketball professionally next year.
i c...so all he could do is sign it, and play the 5th year without accepting any offers if he wanted to choose where he goes
His QO will be a pretty low amount
as its based on your draft position. I think he would be a fool to play on a QO next season, but many athletes have proven to be fools.
He can demand it
but his only leverage remains to sign the QO and leave as a free agent the next summer, otherwise there’s no incentive for the Blazers to trade him. He will undoubtedly get a few decent offers over the summer, so this means turning down a whole lot of money simply to leave the Blazers. The reason that guys can successfully demand trades is because they’re entering unrestricted free agency. No guys coming off their rookie deals are successfully making trade demands.
unles he turns down teh QO... then he could demand a trade since he will be in his last year of his contract
If he turns down the QO
he remains a restricted free agent with no team until he signs an offer sheet with another team that we can then match.
Batum isnt
CP3 Dwight or Mello. Batum is a mostly unknown role player in this league.
I like this move - though I'm sure it works this way 4 outta 5 times
It now provides incentive for Batum to really step it up. If he wants a good pay day/good offer from another team, he needs to really show he’s worth it

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