Extend Batum!
by Droid- on Jan 21, 2012 1:25 PM PST
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PrintI don't post here very often, but am I the only fan getting frustrated with them "low balling" Batum? I love Gerald Wallace and his hustle, but Aldridge and Batum are our franchise, plain and simple. With more minutes Batum is good. He needs to be our starting SF. I say trade Wallace to get a good center. Or just let him walk after this season. What are your thoughts on all of this? This NEEDS to be talked about and addressed.
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Don't take the "low-balling" talk seriously.
It’s very likely that quote came from his agent, who are notorious for giving quotes to reporters to help them with negotiations. They probably hope this will make the fans put pressure on the team (such as what happened when there were problems in the Brandon Roy negotiations).
In reality, both sides are probably following normal negotiation procedure: The Blazers are offering below market value based on performace, and Batum’s management is asking for the moon based on maximum potential. Then they got back and forth until the reach a number neither of them are happy about, but accept. The only problem arrives if the two sites are too far apart to reach a number (and that could be caused by either side, or both sides).. In that case, Batum goes RFA, gets a nice offer and the Blazers probably match.
Don’t fall for the “low-ball offer” talk. This process is normal.
by Timmay! on Jan 21, 2012 1:40 PM PST reply actions 8 recs
always with the excellent analysis Tim.
and to be honest, I hope we keep low-balling because we can’t afford to give Batum a bloated contract. Unless his production steadily increases, he’s due about $7million a year. He’s not worth the $9-10 mil his agent wants.
4 years, $28 million is more than fair. But I hope a team offers him less and we match— say, 3 years $20 million.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."
by thankyouforblaze on Jan 28, 2012 2:52 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks for clearing that up.
I just hope your right, it would be unfortunate for the blazers to have to overpay, hopefully it’s a reasonable offer both sides can agree on.
Trade G-Dub, but not for a center unless its someone really good.
No, I dont want Okafor…at all.
Batum Shakalaka
Okafor plus a 1st draft pick?
I’d take that in a second… especially if it was this year’s NO pick… or maybe it goes into a three way trade, but still Okafor plus a 1st rounder would be a good, fair trade… why are you down on Okafor? Hes a decent rebounder, ok shot blocker, average in weak side help defense and one helluva good post defender… he would have kept Nowitzki to shooting rather than layups last year.
by avalancheman on Jan 21, 2012 3:17 PM PST up reply actions
I'm Not sure
but I think Okafor’s money would put us in a bind next year when we basically have to sign 6 players to new contracts( counting Batum)
Okafor's contract probably would...
But, I’d say he is our best option. Because as many other have said the only way we could get a Hibbert, Bogut or Gortada would mean giving up Wesley or Batum. I’d agree, a quality big is more important then a Matthews or Batum but look at Bogut and Gortada’s production compared to Okafor’s, not that big a difference. Gortada is averaging 15, alot of that is Nash. Bogut seem’s to go down every year! Okafors been pretty reliable throughout his career! I’d say roll the dice! We’re not gonna contend with just LMA and Camby as our best bigs.
Trade Wallace for Okafor. Wallace is out of here this summer anyway.
Wallace wants a 4 year deal (or he would have negotiated with the Blazers over an extension, which he refused to do). Portland ain’t going to give him a 4-year deal. So trade Wallace for Okafor and start Batum. Batum will end up at least as valuable as Wallace, maybe more in the long term. End this nonsense trying to play Wallace or Batum out of position and get a center in the deal.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jan 21, 2012 9:21 PM PST up reply actions
and kill cap space how many years ?
to me, that doesn’t make sense for a guy like okafor who’s not going to elevate the team into contender status.
i’d trade for okafor if he had the potential to be the final piece but i don’t think that’s the case.
as frustrating as it is, the blazers are going to need to be patient, maintain cap space and potentially miss the playoffs a few times if they really want to become an elite team. they need a 2nd star to pair with aldridge. until they can get that, any long term signings don’t make sense to me.
i was hoping against logic that the media was right about the whole okc thing and that they would’t extend westbrook; that possibility is now off the table. now i’m crossing my fingers for a messy kevin love / minnesota divorce. that’s a premier player that we may be able to get to portland.
This.
To surprise of no one, Okafor’s offense looks much like times he played without CP3 these days, which is awful. Don’t kill your cap room for someone that is a decent pro with a killer contract.
The cake was a lie.
Your right!
I take it back, atleast in the free agent market we might be able to pick up a game changer! Very Tru!
There won't be any cap space after this summer unless your plan is to blow it up,
which I guess is what you are suggesting – missing the playoffs for a few years. While that’s a strategy – you will have to find a new owner while you at it because Paul made it pretty clear he isn’t interested in staying around to do that.
Getting Okafor doesn’t mess up the future of this team. Okafor has only 2 years left on his contract, and he would get more tradable next year and again the following year as that contract runs out if the Blazers can’t get additional pieces this summer. Given Wallace’s contract he’s about as good as the Blazers are going to get for Wallace, and it would be stupid to let Wallace walk away for nothing this summer. There is no way the Blazers are going to re-sign Wallace to a 4 year deal this summer (which is what he wants or he would have been willing to talk extension with Portland now, which he wasn’t). Re-signing Wallace for 4 years would be a bad contract in the future as his athleticism deteriorates.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jan 23, 2012 3:01 PM PST up reply actions
xedubx is right, though
Nobody wanted him before he played with CP3. Nobody (besides a heretical sect of BEdgers) wants him since he stopped playing with CP3. He’s decent, but not that good.
Even if we extend Wallace for 4 yrs, he’ll earn it for the first year or two, at least. So we end up with a “bad contract” for one, and a large-ish EC the year following. And that ASSUMES that Wallace is going to get much, much worse. I’m not convinced of that, though it’s possible.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
I'm getting fed up with Wallace
the guy only plays well at home.
This season, sure
I don’t know, but I don’t think we should expect this trend to continue. The travel probably takes it out of him. It’s not like he was very active during the offseason, to anyone’s knowledge. As he plays himself into shape, he should do better on the road.
We’d have to get a darn good player to replace what he gives us at home, even if the player coming back helped us to more road wins.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
We need a C
and thats the only thing I would trade him for.
the problem is
if Wallace is your second best player your not that good. I love the guy, his energy and toughness, but he doesn’t have enough skill to be a batman or a robin. he’s absolutegold as a role player but far from acceptable as a star.
And none of which we can get.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jan 23, 2012 3:03 PM PST up reply actions
Just like we were never going to get Gerald Wallace for an EC, Dante, and a couple picks
Bad trades happen. There will be opportunities for us to take advantage of that.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
I repeat - you ain't getting any of those 3 guys. Just wishful thinking on your part.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jan 25, 2012 4:11 PM PST up reply actions
No need to repeat yourself
Wishes sometimes come true, that’s all I’m sayin’.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
Likely so. If I am chasing a big that can possibly had, I'd be chasing Varejao.
Excellent and mobile defender, great rebounder, and underrated P&R big. Contract is reasonable but not exactly what Cleveland needs at this point, which are cap room and draft picks.
The cake was a lie.
I don't think our chances of that are good either
as the Cavs are playing decently well, I still think the only and best option right now is Okafor.
That's why I said possibly.
I’d hold on to him if I was the GM of Cleveland as well, since he is reasonably paid.
The cake was a lie.
The Suns are going nowhere fast
and if they send Nash to Orlando they might finally be going into rebuild mode. Not sure they’d want Wallace though… more like Batum. But Gortat would be an excellent pick up for us.
by hoodieNation on Jan 21, 2012 3:04 PM PST up reply actions
It'll be really tough to pick up Bogut or Gortat without giving up more than we'd prefer, IMO
Not sure about Hibbert, I haven’t kept up with him.
Hibbert is probably the most untouchable of the three
by hollywood robinson on Jan 21, 2012 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
Good to know. I rarely see Hibbert or follow him in the news
Just one of those players who doesn’t hit my radar much.
man, Hibbert is a beast
and it would be nice for the Blazers to get a 7 foot 2 guy.
However, he’s perfect for Ind. to build around.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."
by thankyouforblaze on Jan 28, 2012 2:54 PM PST up reply actions
I would say all three are pretty much untouchable
unless we included Aldridge or Batum. Which I wouldn’t do. Which is why we’re not getting any of those three players.
by hollywood robinson on Jan 21, 2012 3:31 PM PST up reply actions
actually
I would include Batum but I don’t think any other team (outside of the spurs) really considers him to be a possible future-star, so he and Camby’s EC probably wouldn’t be enough to get it done. Of the three I’d prefer Bogut.
by hollywood robinson on Jan 21, 2012 3:35 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
putting aldridge & batum
in the same sentence is crazy. they aren’t anywhere near the same level. moreover aldridge is a much better player than hibbert, bogut or gortat. the blazers would be crazy to make that trade.
If I'm the Suns, the only player I'd trade Gortat to Portland for is LMA.
Same goes for Indiana with Hibbert. The Bucks are a different story if they fall apart this season, but Scott Skiles won’t have that happen.
"I Am Mine"
Scott Skiles is in his 3rd year in Milwaukee
Like clockwork, Skiles loses the team and eventually his job in the 3rd season after the players stop buying into his defensive and offensive schemes and start jacking up shots. Milwaukee is ripe for some vulture teams to come along and pick away all the decent players from the Bucks so they can do a proper tank job and rebuild from the draft…
Alas Herb Kohl is too old to go through a rebuild so even if Hammond wanted to, Bogut isn’t going anywhere.
The smarter you are, the more likely you are to be tripping balls at any given moment.
/keep Batum/ /trade for Bogut/
I'm all for Bogut if we can con Kohl into letting him go
Anything except LMA.
"We gotta get this $#!^ together guys!" - Phil
Gortat is 27
and the suns are rebuilding, so I think they’ll probably trade him out, since they probably want to go younger than that and there’s no reason to keep him if you’re not going to have a good team over the next 3 years. plus Sarver doesn’t really like to pay for players even when his team is doing well.
They may be willing to trade him. But his price will not be pretty.
He’s one of their only real trade chips left. They’ll want to cash out nicely.
yeah but they'll probably be looking to trade him
and get some good value rather than waste money on a player in his prime when they’re trying to rebuild
Yeah, Marcin Gortat has more value than any Blazer other than LMA.
When people talk about Boston theoretically trading Rajon Rondo, one of the few places I can see him going is to Phoenix in a deal centered around Gortat going to the Celtics.
"I Am Mine"
by AK1984 on Jan 24, 2012 1:26 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
when rebuilding
isn’t a productive young center something you hold onto?
Hibbert on defense... meh
Hibbert fits perfectly with our offense though… great low post guy to add.
Gortat is one of my favorites, then again, he comes from my Polska, but I’m not sure about his fit on offense as hes not a low post guy by any stretch.
Bogut is the wet dream scenario… and you know its only a matter of time before the Bucks want to seek a total rebuild… and Bogut is their chief asset, and only getting older every day… hes in his prime, fits everything this team wants, and in my opinion, is the second best defender and the second best center in the league. The numbers support me there. :-)
by avalancheman on Jan 21, 2012 3:21 PM PST up reply actions
yep
I’m still on board with moving Batum and others to try for Bogut. I’ve not followed the Bucks much this year though, so I really have no clue what they need or want. Or if they are even slightly inclined to move Bogut. Can’t hurt to ask though.
by hoodieNation on Jan 21, 2012 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
I think he's a fan favorite
and you pretty much never trade big for small so I don’t see it happening unfortunately. I think he and Jennings are pretty much the only two players they are really inclined to hold onto, and of course those are also the two players of theirs I’d most like to see on the Blazers. In summary: BABBIT + E.WILL FOR BOGUT + JENNINGS!!!!!!
by hollywood robinson on Jan 21, 2012 3:41 PM PST up reply actions
I'm hoping
and also thinking that your trade proposal is a joke?
No to bogut
And gortat. Gortat isnt a true center. Has terrible D always fouling and never blocking. And bogut is always injuried. Blazers need: one or two of these: Hibbert, cousins, javale mcgee, serge ibaka, or okur.
Formally known as: My_name_a_rudy
by Blaze_that_trail on Jan 21, 2012 4:02 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Always injured?
He had a bad elbow injury last year… thats the elbow, not a knee. He has a concussion currently (not something that will happen often with how he plays). Earlier this season he was out to handle some “personal business” at home in Australia, which I’d bet is a death in the family. He has no long term injury issues. Yes, he has missed some games… but he’s averaged 66 games/season… even with a 36 game season in there. He’s as healthy as you can expect from a 7 foot guy whos that active on defense…
As for Gortat, he IS a true center, although he plays Euro-style. I’m not sure how much you’ve seen of him, but he’s actually average on D… the rest of the suns who he has to try to make up for on the other hand… Outside of Hill and Dudley, who else on that team can play ANY defense?
by avalancheman on Jan 21, 2012 6:24 PM PST up reply actions
I'd add Greg Monroe to that list.
He might seem untouchable, but Detroit is rebuilding, and they might be able to leverage more assets by trading him than building around him.
I think Dumars is better at evaluating young talent than that.
I could be wrong. They already have Knight, Stuckey, and Jerebko, who seem like key pieces to a good team. Add this year’s draft pick, which should be tent pole-type player, and they look to be in good shape.
Seems more likely they’d trade Stuckey, since he makes more and is older than the rest of the young core.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
I stay out of it...
I want The Blazers to be as good as possible.
More talent is better than less talent. So far, in relationship to Batums N.B.A. career Portland has invested the most time, effort and money. I’d like to keep Batum.
That’s where my worries and concerns start and stop.
Once the rumors of negotiations reach the public, there always seems to be a growing cry of “Get It Done!”.
I stay out of it.
The team and Batum will figure it out…or they will not. I’ve heard fans gather the torches to sign everyone from Darius Miles to Brandon Roy.
It would be unfortunate if we lose Batum, but if a reasonable deal can’t be reached? Everyone wants this guy “until” he’s been signed to a huge contract, then becomes injured and/or doesn’t improve..
The Blazers must protect their interests. Which means making a reasonable offer, with a reasonable reward/risk ratio. IMO Batum is not a Slam Dunk…you must keep him at all costs player.
I’m not going to worry about what I hear in the papers. Or what his agent says. I’m just going to sit back. My observation of The Blazers under Paul Allen, is that no valuable asset has ever been lost because Allen refused to pay fair market value for it. Historically? Allen has more often overpaid than underpaid. I don’t think it serves any good for a public outcry to swell over what the public thinks The Blazers should be doing in regards to Batum.
Of course I think you try to keep him at all “reasonable” cost. But I give The Blazers, Paul Allen and Larry Miller and Chad Buchanan the freedom to define to themselves and the franchise how they want to define “Reasonable Cost”.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
by Krang on Jan 21, 2012 2:25 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Batum is certainly not a slam dunk as you say.
Consistency is a huge issue with him right now. His consistency is better than Travis Outlaw, but I’m not sure that’s saying anything. There are nights he looks all world, and nights he is completely invisible. And that is the part that worries me most right now. He’s now in his fourth year. And and you’re right, no one’s going to want him after he signs a big contract. Or if he never gets it together.
I like what he brings though. He’s a player that fits. But I’m not excited about his potential anymore. He is what he is. And that’s okay. And if he does get better, that’s nice too. But I don’t know if you pay for that chance anymore.
"Anybody might guess beforehand that there would be blunders of the ignorant. What nobody could have guessed, what nobody could have dreamed of in a nightmare, what no morbid mortal imagination could ever have dared to imagine, was the mistakes of the well-informed." - G. K. Chesterton, The Common Man
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The night's he looks invisible is probably because...
of Jamal pounding the rock into the ground! When Crawford look’s to get the offense going, it generally means a pass into the post. I’ve seen Nico do cart wheels trying to get Jamal’s attention and nothing seems to work! And when Jamal doesn’t want to risk a bad entry pass you know he’s gonna jack it up! Crawford is an established offensive player in this league but on some night’s he makes Travis Outlaw look like Kobe Bryant! When he drives I hold my breath and hope that after the shot is blocked it doesn’t come through the television and knock me upside the head! Don’t get me wrong, I love what he could potentially bring to this team it’s just that I figured he and Felton hit the ground running! After the game against Toronto we all saw what happens when Felton hits his outside shots! It opened up everything for everybody else! Batum, given the minutes and a little confidence from Nate will be a great starting 3 on this team! Give him the money! 5 for 40 seem about right?
Stop making excuses for Batum
If he doesn’t want to “look invisible” then don’t, its as easy as that.
C'mon dude!
Basketball is a rhythm game! Gonna be hard to be consistent when you don’t have touches! And when Nico slashes to the basket chances are the pass won’t get there because Crawford is not an established playmaker.
Batum is another in a long long line...
of Blazers chronically overrated by their fanbase under the auspices of “Potential”. Of all the teams in various sports I follow, Portland fans are the worst in this regard for some reason. Not sure why.
He’s a solid role-player. Once in a blue moon he has a great game. Nice guy (frankly I suspect this might be a big part of it). But he’s not the superstar-in-the-making many BEers think…
by dulcamara on Jan 21, 2012 4:34 PM PST reply actions 6 recs
Indeed. I'd rather lose him than pay something stupid like >8 million per year.
Overpaying for your average talent is sure-fire way to Pistonsville.
The cake was a lie.
Yep, a sad truth
He’s a solid role-player. Once in a blue moon he has a great game. Nice guy (frankly I suspect this might be a big part of it). But he’s not the superstar-in-the-making many BEers think…
Nice guys finish last. Virtually every champion has a whole bunch of nasty. The only exceptions I could think of off the top of my head are the San Antonio teams, then I remembered Bruce Bowen was making up for the rest of the team. Otherwise, guys like Kobe, Garnett, Pierce, Shaq, Wade, all pretty nasty.
The only times Batum plays well are when he’s been slighted or fouled hard and he’s pissed off.
how many Blazer fans think Nic is a superstar in the making?
Really…a SUPERSTAR. Do people really think that, or are you just creating a group to rail against? Does anyone think Nic is going to average 20-25 ppg and be a top 2 offensive option for a contending team?
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jan 25, 2012 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
"Batum is our future"
If our future is a 15/5/4 guy, than these people are vastly underestimating what our future should look like if we are to be a contending team.
Overrated to what extent ?
The only really biased and more than optimistic opinion that was displayed here and there about Batum was when people were expecting him to become the “next pippen”.
The main point here is not to know if he is gonna turn or not into a superstar (i don’t think he will for my part, except in France), the question is wether you can find easily a replacement with such versatility and unselfishness. Good glue guys, easily coachable, make a difference and you would be dumb to let him go thinking he will be easily replaced. Or i misread all the posts about the wasted picks this franchise had in the last couple of years.
The main issue is not with batum, it’s with roy’s replacement. And as long as batum and the organization can agree to a matthews’s like contract, the Blazers will have plenty to offer to the clutch scoring machine they are now missing.
If gordon is available (and he seems to be), he would be more than a nice addition to the team. Wallace can’t carry the team obviously – and extending him would cost much more than extending batum, either in money or in time during the decision process -, and we really struggle to find a go to guy in the backcourt.
Dreaming of big names is silly, and with freeland coming soon, i don’t think the frontcourt would be hurt to see wallace traded. And right now wallace is the best trade piece this franchise has (as long as he does not stop to have nice stats and impact at home).
i'm thrilled they low-balled him
but i don’t think you’re the only fan that feels the way you do. a lot of people are big nic batum fans. i’m really hoping we either use him in an s&t package to acquire a real difference maker.
to me it would be a classic middle of the pack team mistake to extend batum for a lot of money. he’s a roleplayer that’s nice on an already contending team, but not good enough to help get a mediocre team to elite.
i’d rather have cap space than pay nic batum the 8 or 9 million a year his agent likely wants.
Rec. Don't forget that Batum has been in the trade mill, but we didn't see anyone
willing to give up the kind of talent we talk about for him. He’s a good role player, and at the right price can be kept. But overpaying won’t help this team recalibrate – which it is going to have to do. Freeland is not the answer at center, Camby is near the end, Oden doesn’t ever seem to make in on the floor, and we have Felton, Batum, Wallace, Crawford, Thomas and Smith to decide on. 8 players with contracts to deal with or issues to resolve. Only Matthews and Aldridge are here to stay, and even those could be traded depending on what the Blazers decide to do.
Wallace or Batum isn’t really the question. The question is whether or not Batum can be your go to starter and can he deliver what you want from the 3 spot. Then, we have the same question with Matthews, Felton and the pivot. If neither Matthews, Felton or Batum/Wallace can be no more than pretty good but not great players, just how do you ever expect to get to the big dance? One of those slots needs to be filled with a Roy type replacement. And it doesn’t really matter which one.
by ebenc on Jan 22, 2012 9:14 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
While I think Batum’s overvalued by many Blazer fans, he’s a good player and part of the future, so the team should clearly be talking deal with him. They need to be smart and responsible about it, though. If Batum’s asking for the moon, they shouldn’t give it to him, with RFA as a worst case scenario not the end of the world.
by jksnake99 on Jan 22, 2012 3:25 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Amen
If Nic becomes a free agent and really can get a long term deal for what he’s asking, we can make a better decision on whether to match then, since we’ll have more information on Wallace/Felton/Crawford and a playoff run with this core. If he can’t get a long term deal at his asking price, better for us, then, since his asking price will inevitably come down to a price more reasonable for us.
Some folks are sleeping on Batum's production
He is not a max contract guy but he does have the third best PER on the team (which probably indites the team as well.) Nicolas dropped last year but this year is playing at a good level (17.0) and is producing enough to be worth $7-8M per year on four years.
I am not so worried about Nico being one of our core guys as I am appreciative of what he gives us. So far he has been a good value and I hope we keep him.
If we trade either Batum or Wallace we lose a significant advantage we have at the position over most other teams. We will not get an All-Star or even a better center than Camby for either of them.
Younger and healthier than Camby though might happen
Camby is good enough for this team to be one player away from contention… If he were his prime self. You get a double double machine at center, then all you need is a PG to wrap it all up, and you don’t even need a D Will or CP3, but rather just one of the Kidd, Nash, Billups trio for their last couple years… At least that’s my opinion.
by avalancheman on Jan 23, 2012 11:40 PM PST up reply actions
not aggressive enough
I like his defense game but not so much on offense. I can’t count on him what he will score any day. hard to make a game plan for him as a coach
Bizarre
So you game plan for Crawford? Matthews? Wallace? None of them are consistent. One can argue that batum is more consistent then crawford and Matthews without having any help from coaching staff. I will never understand why a coach will continuely talk up a 32 inconsistent limited player with no upside over a a 23 year old with huge potential and a more complete game. Batum is gone because Nate is simple bias to people he likes, and he likes old selfish players. Batum plays real complimentary basketball. It’s really a shame we are going to lose this guy because of Nate. A coach who helped him develop rather then talking up some 30ish friend of his would do this kid wonders. We are going to regret losing him.
Do whatever is needed to extend him. Use this one if necessary:
by amlmart1 on Jan 24, 2012 8:42 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Gallinari got 4 years/ 42 mill
should be around there….
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
I would rather have Gallinari.
by Oden Mad, Oden Smash! on Jan 25, 2012 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
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