McMillan is driving his starters into the ground...
by Clandestine Johnson on Jan 19, 2012 11:36 PM PST
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PrintPlease, please, please, Sarge...
...play some bench guys even a few minutes a half so they might be able to contribute down the line. Ray Felton is broke, Jamal Crawford is broke, Wesley Matthews is awful right now. LA is tired, Wallace is tired...play Batum 30+ minutes a game, give Nolan Smith a chance to run the team, play Chris Johnson, DO NOT PLAY Luke Babbitt, but give Elliot Williams some run...give them spot minutes and rest a couple key guys like Aldridge and Wallace an extra eight minutes a night (Hint: they are your two best players and letting them average 40 minutes a game on the front end will not work in an abbreviated, incredibly condensed season) and simply get Raymond Felton away from the basketball. When he goes 1-9 (quick aside: whodathunk anyone could make you miss Andre Miller's set-shot from 25'?) with eight turnovers, that is at least 16 wasted possessions (give or take). When Jamal Crawford pounds the ball for 20 seconds then rises up from 27', that is most likely a wasted possession...and he does that a lot. So, play some guys. They can't be much worse than the Crawford/Matthews/Felton Triumvirate of Awful, Aldridge's legs might not fall off and come playoff time you might have some guys who can handle the pressure and produce in limited action.
In short, do like George Castanza and run everything contrary to your instincts. See what happens.
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i dont agree
there was no training camp this year, guys arnt in total game shape yet and thats why nate rides his core of players… he has sat players in games this year but i think that you give lamarcus, gerald, wes, felton, crawford heavy minutes cause those are the guys that will win it. lets face it babbit, armon, ewill, nolan they are not ready for this yet. you give them minutes in the second nights of back to backs but only enough to spell the starters. i like the rotation when our core is healthy. it will come to them they just have to get it going
by jpark on Jan 19, 2012 11:49 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
to get them in shape....
have you ever worked out before? The further you push yourself the better shape you get in.
what doesnt kill you
makes you stronger… unless its like a knee injury…
The tensions are so high because the stakes are so low!
It didn't make Aldridge very strong at the end of the year or in the playoffs last year.
He was gassed.
I like motivational cliched addages as much as anyone, but there is definitely a point of diminishing returns when it comes to getting into shape.
The Blazers won’t be successful if the present work rate for Aldridge is sustained.
volatilelyle.com
by almost awesome on Jan 20, 2012 5:31 PM PST up reply actions
His failure to come through in the 4th quarter in Atlanta and tonight's missed free throws
MIGHT be evidence of fatigue and weary legs already.
I think a lot of that is mental too.
The Mikes were talking about that. You can feel tired but push yourself into focusing on the free throws and maintaining form. There are a lot of things that you are unable to do physically, but I think free throws aren’t always one of em.
Good Point!
We often treat the body as if it is a machine, and we train it and tune it for peak performance. But a human is a mind-body combination, and “thinking tired” can result in “acting tired.” There are two interesting sides to this: (1) the “will” to win in which the athlete pushed themselves to extreme performance and (2) the “even keel” of not too up/not too down approach consistent effort approach. Unfortunately, professional athletes try to reduce distractions to focus on games, but that can also deprive them of positive distractions which can take their mind off their fatigue and demands.
Unfortunately I think it’s hard to judge at this point. I agree, there is definitely a point of diminishing returns, which was surpassed last year with LMA.
I think everyone has some good points here. And really I can see two separate issues.
1. Even in the playoffs, with rest between games, they are going to be exhausted at times. Whether due to overtimes, intense games, physical match ups, they are going to get gassed. Giving them experience in these conditions, and the players learning to maintain form while exhausted, could be a good thing.
2. Yes there are diminishing returns, which it appears were exceeded last year for LMA. But it’s true, to get better you have to push yourself harder. Without a training camp that ‘push’ may need to happen right now, during games that count. Of course for this to work there must be tapers, which perhaps we are seeing now that Nate is going into the bench further. This could be part of an actual deliberate plan with Nate and the training staff. I don’t think we’ve seen enough yet (this year) to rake him over the coals.
Most of my experience is with weight lifting and endurance sports, so not sure how much of it translates to basketball, but I imagine there is a lot of crossover. Multiple peaks and valleys week to week all culminating in being primed at the end of the season when it matters most. Lord we used to celebrate the taper. But if you screw it up, you’re burnt.
When I say 'my opinion,' what I mean is 'indisputable fact.'
If we had a great bench
I’d go ahead and blame McMillan for not playing them, but we don’t. He wants to win.
"We gotta get this $#!^ together guys!" - Phil
by 420Phenom on Jan 20, 2012 12:12 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Agree with Jpark but also with post
The core will need rest but they also need to figure out what the hell they’re doing out there so they can have a proper direction for the rest of the season. The struggles we’re seeing now, you’d have to hope won’t be the same endless struggles come mid-season. Tired legs or no.
Question is; which game(s) are you willing to lose right now? The next to the Raptors? Detroit? Or back home – play the bench heavy minutes to rest guys and you will see any lead that the core built up diminish. So at what point do you say “okay, keep going” just to see what they can come up with, ultimately accepting a likely loss.
regarding Batum – he’ll get the time. Last game before he got his eye poked out I was betting he’d see 30 minutes.
It’s great to toss Nolan in there for 5-10 minute stints (which Nate started doing last game), same with CJ and I honestly wish it was a bit more of EWILL (I’m excited to see what he can bring to the table), but to play the bench together is just suicide. period. It’s not even as good as watching D league games. They look both lost and like they need to prove something – a terrible combination that results in guys putting up random trash shots at will in hopes that they’ll fall and Nate will be impress enough to play them more…It’s a puzzling contradiction and dreadful to watch.
Once you really play these guys off the bench and lose a couple games as a result, the bulk majority of people here who want to give the guys rest will have a 180 degree different opinion.
by blazerblaze on Jan 20, 2012 12:12 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
In particular
Your point about not playing the entire bench together is worth close consideration, and I’d like to put together a broader discussion on how “bench” and “starters” are understood in such binary ways. This season in particular, I’ve argued, the bench is going to be absolutely key, which is why I’m pretty bullish on the Nuggets and Thunder, and expect the Clips to underperform.
i think the other guys
will get minutes im just thinking it will come later on in the season. portland is fine they just need to get back home so they can win some more easy games!
Elliot Williams was impressive in preseason games.
by amlmart1 on Jan 20, 2012 1:01 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
He killed Nate's puppy, I'm telling you.
Now all we need is the rest of the roster to get into "how can everybody help Nicco and Oden" mode. -- Oden Mad, Oden Smash! Sep 29, 2010 7:47 PM
No, he is all flash no nba substance yet.
just like all those before him on the Blazer roster.
A tweener guard that the giddy owner who every one loves because he signs their checks cant get enough of. Bad knees and all. Poster child for Blazer draft picks !
If you want to see EW, wait until next season, when he gets his shot somewhere else. Just ask Bayless.
Nates job is to win games.
More CJ, less Rhino please and thank you.
just win baby !
by FrenchieFan on Jan 20, 2012 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
and disagree with cj over rhino
he does a great job and actually can score!
With KT and Rhino in together
we are out scored and out rebounded everytime. Look at the game stats, they speak for themself. You cant not play KT. Rhino was another bad move, Imo, but to each his own. Agree to disagree. Blazer fans are too accepting of other teams cuts.
just win baby !
by FrenchieFan on Jan 20, 2012 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
I would agree with you
CJ hasn’t looked good at anything with the minutes he has gotten this year.
Instinct is there.
CJ has a nose for the ball, and length. 2 things you cant teach. Some muscle and Buck will make a player out of him. If he could gain some weight . I’d rather see a shot blocker behind KT and LA than the Rhino, or LA being run into the ground already this season.
When is the trade deadline ?
Rhino and EW and $$ should be able to bring a back up pf in return no ??
just win baby !
I'll just say
he is 26 and has spent pretty much his whole career in the D-league. There is a reason for that.
I've been pretty impressed with Craig Smith.
I like his consistency. He is a scoring option on the second unit. Something we badly need with how streaky Batum and Crawford are.
"Anybody might guess beforehand that there would be blunders of the ignorant. What nobody could have guessed, what nobody could have dreamed of in a nightmare, what no morbid mortal imagination could ever have dared to imagine, was the mistakes of the well-informed." - G. K. Chesterton, The Common Man
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your key word was preseason....
mcmillan doesnt elieve that he has t yet and lets face it he sees him play every day unlike us!
As soon as the bench comes in in force the lead goes out the window
Give up 10 to 15 pts in 2.5 minutes and you’ll always be in trouble. Tired starters > bench production atm. Nolan did look fine in 10 mins so at least that’s promising.
Our bench production is a sham right now. Crawford comes in and bricks everything while he’s supposed to be earning rest for the starters. He then scores in the 4th quarter when Ray is gassed and doing more damage then good. The analysts look at the box score and say something like “Portland’s bench scored like 30 pts” or whatever.
Really the starters are all playing 35 to 40+ mins because they all had to hold the bench crew’s hand through the 2nd quarter.
Having Camby back and more minutes for Nolan may help with this exceedingly.
by poorwebguy on Jan 20, 2012 1:34 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Except the Atlanta Game...
when Nolan was in and Blazers cut the 13 point lead to 0…then Felton came back in and we were put in a hole again.
by stats al ghul on Jan 22, 2012 10:37 AM PST up reply actions
Easier baskets...
Would be nice. I always feel that if there were a calories-expended(CE)/basket stat, Portland would be at the high end of that. With the exception of Batum’s fadeaways and the odd dunk or LMA pick-and-pop, it always seems like the Blazers have to try so much harder to get a basket.
Rest the starters or lower the CE percentage.
Buck Williams for the hall of fame
It's because Nate lack's creativity in his offensive scheme and we have poor shooters
Now all we need is the rest of the roster to get into "how can everybody help Nicco and Oden" mode. -- Oden Mad, Oden Smash! Sep 29, 2010 7:47 PM
Injuries!
It’s not just fatigue we need to be concerned about; the more minutes the starters play, the greater the likelihood that fatigue contributes to an injury. There are many reasons we should be giving Smith, Williams, Babbit (yes, Babbit), and Johnson some run: to allow them to grow and progress, to figure out who we should keep for the future and who we should let go (let’s not repeat a Rudy Fernandezy situation and let a guy decompose on the bench; play ‘em or trade ’em), and to allow the starters to rest their heels. We are going to lose games anyway (we’re at 8-6), and who cares if the loss is by 2 with all the starters or by 12 with the new guys playing? A loss is a loss . . . unless that loss also comes with a turned ankle or a bum hamstring.
Agree: fatigue leads to injuries.
We’ve seen what happened with Camby injured; subtract any one of the starters and we’ll get the same result.
The only possible alternative is playing more guys more minutes, as described. Lots more minutes.
Playoff seeding will be less important this year; what will be important is the health of your best players. The second important factor will be the strength of the bench; if they haven’t played and improved during the season, they certainly won’t improve during the playoffs.
I disagree that playoff seeding will be less important this year
First off we play WAY better at home. Second off during playoffs guys actually have a chance to rest, with much longer breaks between games, Seeding will play a very large part in who wins this year.
Seeding is always important; under recognized is fatigue. The Spurs resting Duncan,
or limiting his minutes, made him more effective in the playoffs. But once a player hits that fatigue wall (and it certainly varies by player and I doubt it can be measured objectively) I think it takes more than an extra night or two of rest each week. What is undervalued by coaches like Nate is keeping players fresh all season long. Is it worth a few less wins to keep your best players in better shape for the playoffs and give your bench more time playing together and experience (in the case of the young players)? A tough judgement call!
Nate puts himself into "win now" mode
By only signing one-year offers. I believe riding his stars for heavy minutes is a byproduct of that.
i like it here, there, everywhere.
by Name's Ash on Jan 20, 2012 7:44 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
Thats a very interesting point.
I’ve never thought if that… But now that i have… FIRE NATE! Woot!
by hoodieNation on Jan 20, 2012 9:07 AM PST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
To be fair...
It wasn’t Nate that offered one year contracts, but I agree that it is pushing him towards a win now attitude.
"Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein
Nate's current contract is for two years
But I agree that winning is the top priority for him. I don’t think he’s alone in that; Nate’s boss wants to make the playoffs as much as Nate does. He’s stuck between a rock and a hard place. If he had his druthers, I’m sure he’d want a full training camp and more practice time to get the core players in shape and see how the new/young guys fit in.
Oh, he is?
Before that he was adamant about doing one-year deals. He often said it kept him accountable. I wonder what changed?
i like it here, there, everywhere.
Now more than ever
McMillan has to trust his young players. Are they going to make mistakes? Of course they are. But the sooner he plays them and takes some lumps, the faster they will turn into contributing NBA players. The condensed schedule is going to be death for LMA and Wallace – even moreso than last year.
It’s about time McMillan sacrifices 1 or 2 playoffs seeds to get his young players up to speed instead of stunting their development. Not only do we need them, we need Wallace, LMA & Felton to play less minutes and we need a deeper bench.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
Well stated:
Isn’t it interesting that the bench players get so little time because they have so little experience and play poorly, whereas it is exactly the playing time they need to improve? Yanking players after a mistake or two is a confidence destroyer; how can that not be obvious to the coaches?
Practice
against their NBA team mates is where they get experience.
You're correct . . . but I would add game experience is a second important component.
And not just in mop up time. Can’t expect a young player to be ready for prime time game play if all you’ve given them is practice.
I agree with you
and thats why Nolan Smith got to play tonight. He has reportedly looked good in practice, got some play time in Atlanta and looked good. Elliot isn’t going to play much cause he has 2 guards ahead of him, Nolan only has 1 PG in front of him. Thats unfortunate too cause I was looking forward to Elliot playing. CJ is obviously bad if he can’t get PT especially when Camby is injured. It looks like Nate prefers Rhino at this point.
I think eventually
We will see Nolan play a little on a back to back. And I think Craig has played phenomenal to this point while camby and Batum was out. Which I think we are at least 9 1/2 man deep right now.
by Hoi on Jan 20, 2012 8:57 AM PST via mobile reply actions
I agree with the general play idea
disagree with felton hate
The tensions are so high because the stakes are so low!
I've loved watching Felton squit through the key; we've not had that speed and skill in years.
It puts all sorts of pressure on the defense. Shooting may come and go, but Felton is a real asset and this will prove out in during the season.
True that
I really like watching felton play
The tensions are so high because the stakes are so low!
Once Camby is back, his rebounding will lead to more fast breaks (like earlier in the season) with LA
and GW receiving those great passes from him. Right now, their fast breaks are down and only coming from steals. More easy points = more scoring = more wins.
I just don't like watching him dribble.
Makes me nervous everytime.
He has the best handle on the team
He does try to bust past people sometimes with that dribble away from his body – that one makes me nervous
The tensions are so high because the stakes are so low!
The Felton hate stem from the fact he's playing horribly
10 PER from a PG is horrible, and there’s no way to sugarcoat that. He’s been very bad no questions asked. He’s done some decent things occasionally on dribble drives, but ANY PG in the NBA getting starters minutes will do some good things occasionally.
The hate will cease when Felton actually starts helping the team win. He’s been much worse than Miller, who a large portion of the fan base loved. He plays better and that noise will die down – that simple. Its a performance based business after all.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
I don't hate Felton...
He seems like a nice guy, but he’s not very good right now. In fact, his jumper is looking awful. Just want someone more productive and I think Smith warrants a shot at spot minutes (if not more time in the rotation)
by Clandestine Johnson on Jan 20, 2012 2:38 PM PST up reply actions
Yah I agree giving smith minutes would be good
would up smiths value and rest felton a bit, he does seem to drop off his strengths when he is tired
The tensions are so high because the stakes are so low!
I would like to never see
Jamal at the 1 again this year. Smith should be our back up point, period.
Well for me the fact is
we are not ready to compete for the championship. So i say, Play the 2nd unit heavy minutes. Who cares about winning when you cant win it all!? Let the 2nd unit get some run even if it costs us the game, they need some game exp or else our bench will forever be crappy. Rest the starters, they need it. Even if we lose a bunch of games, we will get a higher pick in the draft. Really, its not gonna make that much difference, our starters are playing crappy, might as well let the 2nd unit play crappy and get exp. I bet we make the playoffs no matter what, and by then, our bench should be contributing more. This season should be a make it or break it season for us, if we cant compete for the title, whats the point? Making the playoffs 2nd round should not be our goal, making it to the championship should be. Anything short of that is losing! Im tired of this team treading water, I want them to catch a wave and ride it to the promised land.
Oden or a good center, is our last chance to salvage this season. We need a good, big center. Someone who can rebound, block and out-body other centers. Ive said it before and Ill say it again, Camby is not a center he is a PF. We could seriously give Camby a couple years more play if he didnt have to bang with the centers out there. I would love to have a good center and move Camby over to backup LMA.
Anyways, its a looooong ways to the top, no matter how you slice it.
by cavejunctionblazer on Jan 20, 2012 12:10 PM PST reply actions
Nate
has gotten more from less every year he has been here. Nate is either the best or second best coach this franchise has ever had. The players are not executing and the shots are not falling, but what lurks on the bench 8-12 is not going to pull us out of this funk. These guys need PT and rhythm and Nate knows that. This is why he is paid millions to coach basketball.
Lets not put him in the same category as Ramsey
until he brings home the championship. Though I think he is getting close to Adelman.
"We gotta get this $#!^ together guys!" - Phil
Nate coaches the way he played: hard nosed, never say die, scrappy, etc.
Unfortunately, coaches need not only these characteristics, but also skills in player management, confidence building, and longer term strategies regarding time management. Winning every game possible may win several additional battles but lose the war when fatigue and injuries undermine playoff performance.
In terms of player development, I think the jury is still out on Nate; the players from his teams who have been let go/traded generally have not performed much better away from him. But the failure to utilize his bench will inevitably lead to the fatigue/injury problem and he’s then faced with subs he hasn’t played much.
That is our GM's issue
not Nates. If our GM or whoever is playing GM can’t get Nate a serviceable bench, Nate has to use his starters more then he would like to win games.
I actually think its the opposite...I think Nate has consistantly gotten less from more
by stats al ghul on Jan 22, 2012 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
I just don't see that at all
I guess this may be an agree to disagree point. I mean, Nate isn’t the second coming but he has managed to at least get the team to the play offs in spite of a hell of a lot of adversity. Some credit is due.
As much as I harp on Nate for riding the starters to hard
Mike Brown is even worse,he played the starters most of the 4th quarter last night down by 20 with a game tonight in Orlando,thanks Mike
by southern oregon on Jan 20, 2012 1:40 PM PST reply actions
The Mike Brown offense worked so much better with LeBron...
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
Smith probably need more minutes due to Felton’s struggles and Crawford’s inability to run the point effectively. Johnson may deserve some spot time as well, due to Camby’s absence. The rest of the guys? Honestly? No matter who’s struggling, unless the game is WELL in hand, I don’t need to see Williams, Babbitt or Johnson. Of the three Williams is the only one I’m even curious about. The other two I’m not even sure will be NBA players once their rookie deals run out.
"You know, when you are in the game, you hear 20,000 people behind you, you don't feel anything."
- Nicolas Batum on playing through his shoulder injury during the 2010 playoffs.
Why not let the bench play only the road games and the starters only at the Rose Garden?
We’re going to lose the road games anyway, so why unnecessarily wear out the starters? All joking aside, I think it’s a valid point about letting the rooks make some mistakes and learn the game at an NBA pace. At this point the starters aren’t going to improve their game really other than get an opportunity to shoot themselves out of a slump. It’s just that under Nate, the margin of error is so, so tiny for a rookie, it’s just impossible for a him to get any valuable development time. If Crawford and Felton were rookies, they’d be so yanked into oblivion. And yet they are afforded a generous dose of patience from the coach. Remember Kevin Durant’s rookie year? He was playing terrible defense and chucking awful shots and yet he got starter’s minutes to work it out. (Yes, I know he was a lotto pick).
I agree with Nate for the moment
I think playing the top 8 guys for the first 15-20 games is a smart move to improve conditioning and chemistry, after that starters minutes should be reduced and 10-12 man rotation should be used.
the truth hurts. fox news is painless
D if you do D if you dont
well if we dont break them one things for sure, they will be in good shape!!
It's a balancing act.
You want to develop the young guys but fans and companies are paying lots to see a winner. The owner wants to watch a winner. We have high value free agents at the end of their contracts (Camby, Wallace totaling about $15,000,0000), a couple of high value youngsters , some very worthwhile journeymen named Crawford and Felton, and a bona fide diamond named LaMarcus Aldridge. You can’t leave tha talent on the bench when there’s an honest chance to win and a warrior like Nate McMillan who won’t accept defeat. The youngsters just have to crack the rotation based on the merits of their abilities.
by oregonslee on Jan 20, 2012 9:06 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I'm tired of hearing guys are tired
So is the rest of the league
Trust and look for each other
by Hermistonmelons on Jan 21, 2012 2:49 PM PST reply actions
Yes and No
Yes, I do agree that Coach Nate does drive his starters hard and for extensive minutes. This was the subject of interest last season during the playoffs, where LaMarcus had run out of steam because his playing minutes were consistently high during the regular season.
However, because of the lockout, I would’ve thought that it is the players responsibility to stay in shape as best they could during the lockout.
So, the first six weeks of the season would’ve equaled training camp and then some preseason games.
really?
what bench? only craig, kurt, and LMA are the only consistent players on the roster. Coach is dealt with not so good hand here
I wonder if a reporter has ever asked Nate the question:
“Nate, your team was up by 17 with under two minutes to go in the game. Yet, you kept the starters in. Why did you do that? Apparently, you think that whatever the reason is that you do that, it’s worth the risk of one of the starters getting injured?”
I’d be interested in his answer. I’d be surprised if he said it’s because they’re not in game shape yet. I’d be less surprised if he said that the starters still aren’t playing well enough as a unit and that he wants to play them as much as possible so they will jell. I’d be very surprised if he said that he can’t trust the subs to hold a 17 point lead with under two minutes to go (even if that’s what he really believes). Maybe he’s worried that if the subs blow most or all of a big lead that their psychies will be damaged. Maybe I’m over thinking this because I have not idea why Nate does what he does…
Seems to me that the starters jelling isn’t Nate’s biggest problem. Getting the subs to play well together is. Besides, this team is physically fragile, and I feel like Nate’s playing with fire here.
RCTID
I wonder if a reporter has ever asked Nate the question:
“Nate, your team was up by 17 with under two minutes to go in the game. Yet, you kept the starters in. Why did you do that? Apparently, you think that whatever the reason is that you do that, it’s worth the risk of one of the starters getting injured?”
I’d be interested in his answer. I’d be surprised if he said it’s because they’re not in game shape yet. I’d be less surprised if he said that the starters still aren’t playing well enough as a unit and that he wants to play them as much as possible so they will jell. I’d be very surprised if he said that he can’t trust the subs to hold a 17 point lead with under two minutes to go (even if that’s what he really believes). Maybe he’s worried that if the subs blow most or all of a big lead that their psychies will be damaged. Maybe I’m over thinking this because I have not idea why Nate does what he does…
Seems to me that the starters jelling isn’t Nate’s biggest problem. Getting the subs to play well together is. Besides, this team is physically fragile, and I feel like Nate’s playing with fire here.
RCTID
I don't see it
Aldridge, Batum, Camby, Wallace, Felton, Crawford, and Matthews are all playing fewer minutes per game than they did last season.
by Agenda42 on Jan 24, 2012 5:30 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Frustrated by last night's game
I was frustrated to see Batum in at the end of last night’s game. Yes, they are playing less minutes than last year, but I think part of that has to do with less injuries. If we are ahead by 15+ with 3-4 minutes left in the game lineup:
Smith
Williams
Babbit
Smith
Johnson
by andyisnumerouno on Jan 25, 2012 2:46 PM PST reply actions
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