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3 years of drafting without producing nba minutes



At what point should Trail blazers fans start to question our team for its inability to produce any quality players via the draft. Our roster as of right now has not 1 player getting quality or any minutes from our last 3 drafts. Should this be a concern? Is it our scouts, coach or both that should be held responsible. We seem to be one of the few teams not getting contribution from recent drafts?

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McMillan deserve the least amount of blame, in my opinion

The ownership probably deserves the most, because of how indecisive they have been with their general managers(who along with scouts are largely responsible for draft duties) the last few seasons. Pritchard was highly over rated by fans too. I just hope Allen finds the right guy for the job the next time around.

by 420Phenom on Jan 18, 2012 12:17 PM PST reply actions  

The Blazers have drafted

2011: Nolan Smith – needs minutes to improve
2011: Jon Diebler – basically an American Draft-N-Stash
2010: Armon Johnson – needs minutes to improve
2010: Luke Babbitt – given enough minutes to show he sucks
2010: Elliot Williams – needs minutes to improve
2009: Victor Claver – Draft-N-Stash
2009: Dante Cunningham – modest NBA rotation player, got plenty of minutes, playing 18 mpg w/ Memphis
2009: Jon Brockman – playing 7 mpg with Bucks, fan favorite
2009: Patrick Mills – played enough minutes to prove he was too short to be an effective NBA player given his skills.

Overall, of 9 guys; two of them we know aren’t good (Mills and Babbitt); 2 are draft-n-stashed; 2 were traded away (Cunningham and Brockman) who are legitimate 8th/9th men on NBA teams; and 3 are rotting on the bench.

I’d say it’s fair to say McMillan is mostly at fault – those guys need minutes to show if they can play or not. The compressed season seems to be a good time to do so, althouhg without enough minutes for Batum, hard to say there are minutes for E-Will/Nolan; and Armon is probably not good enough but hasn’t had quite enough minutes yet.

M, period. Fresh, comma.

by manzell on Jan 18, 2012 12:40 PM PST reply actions  

I don't think Babbitt to bad he's just not in the right role

they made him a 3pt shooter even though he’s pretty good rebounder and has a nice post game. He isn’t bad with the ball in his hands running the pick and roll. His shoot is awful but only from 3, he’s got a Kurt Thomas type mid range shoot. Just don’t make
Luke that 3pt guy and he’d be OK.

by Daddygr33nJeans on Jan 18, 2012 1:19 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Babbit is D league and nothing more...

Have nothing to write about him cause it’s just not worth it. That roster space should be filled with a center.

Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team.
-- Scottie Pippen

by BlazerRoddy on Jan 18, 2012 1:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Babbitt just sucks

until we see some miraculous turn around, that’s the end of the story

by blazerblaze on Jan 18, 2012 1:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Luke jackson/morrison

OSU '06
GForce Crash Wallace FTW!

by TyboOSU on Jan 18, 2012 2:13 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Since Luke Jackson was a swingman and not a combo forward, the comparison doesn't work.

As I see it, Nik Caner-Medley is a better comparison. Then again, being compared to Caner-Medley says enough about how Luke Babbitt should’ve been viewed coming into the league.

"I Am Mine"

by AK1984 on Jan 18, 2012 5:24 PM PST up reply actions  

how many teams do you have to see him suck?

How many players in the NBA have played as many minutes as he has and failed to show any ability whatsoever?

M, period. Fresh, comma.

by manzell on Jan 18, 2012 3:26 PM PST up reply actions  

This is partly correct.

At Nevada, Luke Babbitt was a scorer with the ball in his hands rather than someone who played off the ball well; thus, trying to turn him into a spot-up shooter was a bad idea. That said, Babbitt wasn’t any better than an Adam Morrison or Nik Caner-Medley type as a scoring combo forward. All things considered, he belongs overseas instead of in the NBA.

"I Am Mine"

by AK1984 on Jan 18, 2012 5:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Some blame goes on each of these:

1) Later draft picks are more risky
2) Need to improve our player evaluation
3) A Nate quote from Quick’s recent article begs for the rest of the blame:

“Those are our guards (Felton, Crawford, Matthews),” he said flatly. “It’s not like we are going to go to our young guys.”

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2012/01/blazers_insider_changing_of_the_guards_still_a_wor.html

i like it here, there, everywhere.

by Name's Ash on Jan 18, 2012 1:55 PM PST reply actions  

Young guys don't play on a team

with no starts that is trying to compete.

by AR-15 on Jan 18, 2012 2:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Really

Check out Miami, NY, even LAL. All have rookie PG getting quality minutes. 2 of those drafted after our rookie pg.

by Cabbol on Jan 18, 2012 2:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Uhhh

did you read my 14 word post. I said NO STARS. Miami has 3 guys named Dwayne Wade Chris Bosh and Lebron James, you might have heard of them. NYK have 2 guys named Carmelo Anthony and Amare Stoudemire…they are kinda good, LAL….these guys named Kobe and Pau…I heard Kobe is alright.

by AR-15 on Jan 18, 2012 2:57 PM PST up reply actions  

starts.

Sorry read starts. Throw in Reggie Jackson in OKL. So the excuse is that since we dont have stars then we shouldnt care about draft results and development of players? Should it be opposite, shouldnt we be trying to develop young talent in loo of stars? I feel someone should be held accoutable for the lack of development of draft picks. You choose, but you cant have 3 PG taken after our pick playing on winning teams doing better and not have to question our draft or minutes philosophy.

by Cabbol on Jan 18, 2012 3:04 PM PST up reply actions  

My bad

Typo on my part. But my point is without stars there isn’t a lot of wiggle room to develop talent. We don’t have Durrant and Westbrook to make up for Elliot Williams mistakes. If we aren’t trying to win this year then sure throw in Nolan and Elliot get them some minutes and maybe they will be good in a few years. Or you play them in garbage time in their rookie year and slowly add minutes as they gain experience. My point is we don’t have enough talent to make up for rookie mistakes right now, if we want to win, they will watch that happen from the bench.

by AR-15 on Jan 18, 2012 3:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Lamarcus can't?

GW can’t? Besides, who on the Sixers is making up for Vucevic’s mistakes? Or Paul George’s mistakes in Indy? Or Gallinari/Mozgov’s mistakes in Denver?

That’s just this year alone. Heck, if you want to go back, just off the top of my head you have Detroit winning the title with huge contributions from Prince and Okur (2nd and 3rd years, respectively).

by Royster on Jan 18, 2012 3:16 PM PST up reply actions  

gallinari and paul george are pretty good

but i still agree with you…

the blazers give up big leads even when nolan and elliott don’t play, so nate might as well wise up and let them go instead of crawford at the 1.

by ZenGarden on Jan 18, 2012 3:33 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree about George and Gallinari

although Mozgov and Vucevic aren’t in their category. You could also include Evan Turner and Jrue Holliday as young rotation guys on the Sixers. I more just didn’t get why the star/no star dichotomy mattered, and those guys are some clear counter examples. None of which, besides Gallinari, were especially high draft picks, either.

by Royster on Jan 18, 2012 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I think in the right situation Nate would play the young guys-

but you’ve got Crawford and Felton both looking for form and finding their role with the team, so I think giving them playing time becomes the priority at this point.

by simoninaustralia on Jan 18, 2012 5:17 PM PST up reply actions  

I mean

Wesley is a 3rd year guy and Batum is a 4th. Its not that he won’t play young guys.

by AR-15 on Jan 18, 2012 5:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Chicken or egg

For 3 years Nate has been in win now mode with a team that can’t get out of the first round. So basically we have 1 and done with no development of young players. Bad to square one, we don’t know if its drafting or Nate. But we do know Nate has not given players the chance to grow outside of a Batum (who seems to be getting a bit shafted on minutes of late) and a few players who got traded and or not signed. So basically this year we are setting up another 1 and done with no young player development and a possible stagnation of Batum with low play minutes. Not only that we wont be able to judge our scouts, interm GM or draft philosophy. Doesn’t seem like a smart long term. Maybe we do need a GM.

by Cabbol on Jan 18, 2012 3:17 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

exactly

i like it here, there, everywhere.

by Name's Ash on Jan 18, 2012 3:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree with this

I’m not saying we shouldn’t play young guys, I’m just saying why we don’t. Personally I don’t think we are in a position to win now, so pretending like we are and running a team as if they are is just a mistake IMO. I put that on Allen though, not Nate. If Nate plays the young guys and shoes Allen he isn’t dedicated to winning now but developing talent to win later, history tells me Allen wouldn’t hesitate to show Nate the door.

by AR-15 on Jan 18, 2012 3:48 PM PST up reply actions  

The reason our young guys haven't been getting playing time

is that there are better players on the team at the same position. If you look back a couple years to when a rookie Nicolas Batum stole the starting small forward spot from Travis Outlaw, it becomes clear Nate will play rookies if they are good enough to get on the court.

Its a lot harder to draft when your not in the lottery. We played Roy & Oden when they were very young too, because they had the talent to stay on the floor.

by 420Phenom on Jan 18, 2012 4:03 PM PST up reply actions   3 recs

Nate is the only coach ever to get anything out of Travis Outlaw

and he used him in a very precise way — as a stretch 4 off the bench. And his ability to score overrode his defensive deficiencies, lack of passing and rebounding. Last year at NJ he started and got long minutes at SF and his shooting went way down.

This may also have something to do with the fact that he finally “got paid,” as in overpaid — enough so that the nets amnestied him this year, in other words paid him to go away.

ignacio

by ignacio on Jan 18, 2012 8:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Its real easy to play as a point guard

When your passing to several hall of famers. Ask Rondo. They develop because of that reason too. Reggie Jackson looks terrible for OKC, on the flip side Paul George has looked absolutely outstanding so far. Vucevic is a big, its a lot easier to get minutes when you play in the post & the fact that he is a good prospect, on a bad team. Just like Gallinari demanded playing time on a BAD TEAM in NY, that allowed them to trade for Melo! As we saw with Nicolas Batum, Nate McMillan will play a rookie if their play warrants it. We just haven’t drafted well at all. The blame falls on the scouts & the fact that our GM position is in complete disarray.

by 420Phenom on Jan 18, 2012 3:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Only thing I kind of disagree with

Is the fact Elliot is getting no play time. I mean I’m not in practice so maybe Nate knows something I don’t. From what I have seen, Elliot should be getting at least 5 minutes a game, or maybe just against bad teams. I hope the plan is to let Jamal walk next year and have Elliot coming off the bench as our 2nd 2 guard.

by AR-15 on Jan 18, 2012 4:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree, EWill has looked good in spot minutes

and deserves a couple more. But he has two guards ahead of him that are proven products at the NBA level. Its not like he is showing up Wesley/Crawford in practice, or he would be getting more run.

by 420Phenom on Jan 18, 2012 4:04 PM PST up reply actions  

I do agree with that

thought he isn’t shooting any worse then Jamal haha. That is a mute point of course, as Jamal has proven he can shoot better then he currently is, Elliot wasn’t even supposed to know how to shoot.

by AR-15 on Jan 18, 2012 4:09 PM PST up reply actions  

The

Problem is even up 20 Nate won’t get these young guys on the floor.

by Cabbol on Jan 18, 2012 6:27 PM PST up reply actions  

We aren't even a .500 team right now

and you want Nate playing less talented guys?

by AR-15 on Jan 18, 2012 7:29 PM PST up reply actions  

It is the Oden CURSE....

Ever since winning the #1 pick in the 2007 draft with very few exceptions our draft picks have sucked. Maybe when Oden leaves the curse will leave with him, just a theory.

by Planet29 on Jan 18, 2012 2:12 PM PST reply actions  

thats why he has a theory

it implies that he’s proposing curses aren’t real.

by ZenGarden on Jan 18, 2012 3:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Are you one of those deniers of global climate change?

The smarter you are, the more likely you are to be tripping balls at any given moment.
/keep Batum/ /trade for Bogut/

by gtbassett on Jan 19, 2012 1:05 AM PST up reply actions  

I'm getting flooded right now :(

"We gotta get this $#!^ together guys!" - Phil

by 420Phenom on Jan 19, 2012 11:37 AM PST up reply actions  

This is why teams rebuild.

Shrewd GMs of mediocre teams improve via FA or look to swing deals that will move them up in drafts to get impact players. We have gone the FA route for a while (Camby, Wallace, Crawford, Felton, Matthews, etc). There are plenty of teams out there (most of the good ones) who have very little in the way of draft-pick production, because of the position from which they draft.

by The Penguin on Jan 18, 2012 2:35 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

yup

a huge problem is where teams draft. Even teams with lottery picks fail every once in a while, and therefore, the probability of failing as you get father down the draft ranks steadily rises.

I mean, common, look at Hasheem Thabeet, a second overall pick.

"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."

by thankyouforblaze on Jan 18, 2012 2:42 PM PST up reply actions  

The larger

Problem is other teams are finding talent late in drafts and getting quality minutes. We are not. It would be prudent to find out why and why we are wasting so many resources on scouting, drafting and development.

by Cabbol on Jan 18, 2012 2:40 PM PST reply actions  

Batum is really the only one

Dante was a good pick, Rudy wasn’t a terrible pick. Everything else has been really bad while impact guys keep going late all around us

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jan 19, 2012 12:26 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree

That was pretty bogus. Though, to be fair, if we’re talking about the Blazers needing a PG, what came after Claver that year was Rodrigue Beaubois and Wayne Ellington. Beaubois might have worked out, but he seems to be just a bit more successful version of Patty Mills. Ellington is a no go. What hurts was the fact that they probably should have worked harder to move up 1 to 5 spots to get the late ’teens picks. The run on decent enough NBA PGs leading up to Claver is pretty depressing. 17th pick Jrue Holliday, 18th pick Ty Lawson, 19th pick Jeff Teague, 20th pick Eric Maynor, and 21st pick Darren Collison. Save Maynor, the Blazers would probably be better off with any of those guys than Felton.

by ZenGarden on Jan 18, 2012 3:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe our GM at the time shot himself in the foot

by not shooting down all the pritch-slap talk. Apparently the Blazers were looking to move up in that draft (the talk was for Tyler Hansborough), but he wasn’t able to get it done.

by simoninaustralia on Jan 18, 2012 5:24 PM PST up reply actions  

What was

More depressing was how many people on Blazersedge was screaming to move up and crab one of those picks. Also passing on that center for the Spurs. Could have had our back up rebounder.

by Cabbol on Jan 18, 2012 3:27 PM PST reply actions  

splitter?

or dejuan blair….or both…

by ZenGarden on Jan 18, 2012 3:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Don't feel like looking up the stats. but

I believe our draft picks have been pretty average in terms of production relative to draft position. Overall 1 below production expected for the pick(Babbitt) and a couple actually contributing above what you would expect (Dante Cunningham and Patty Mills). If you look at 2nd round picks and expected production anything is considered a bonus.

Our drafting issues have been we’re picking late in the draft and we don’t seem to be picking for need. Smith over Faried etc… However, we’re pretty much right at average as a drafting team. Certainly there is room for improvement, but it’s very rare that picking outside of the top 10 picks we’re going to end up with contributors…

Doing a quick stat. search on basketball reference it looks like there are about 180 players who play more than 15 or more minutes per game on average. You figure contributing players seem to last in the league about 10 years. That means that there are about 18 spots per year for contributors.

If you draft out of the lottery odds are you’re not going to get one of those contributors.

by boppitywop on Jan 18, 2012 3:34 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

oh

at least someone got something from it…go vegas Holdum them I say……..example, "announcer speaking, “Portand desides not to take anyone in 2011 draft” Portland has elected to check!!! or call" depending where are viewers are watching!!!

by Danvegas on Jan 18, 2012 4:10 PM PST up reply actions  

meh, most teams have bad drafts

lol. Too many crappy players in the last few years.

by hoodieNation on Jan 18, 2012 4:30 PM PST reply actions  

totally false--the last few drafts have been very very very deep.

Even last year, which was supposed to be one of the weakest draft years in recent history, has produced almost 20 players playing over 15 mpg, and around 10 of which have won starting jobs with their teams already, with another few probably only a few games away from stealing starting jobs from vets who are starters in name only.

by howlingfantods on Jan 18, 2012 5:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah,

Amazingly, by the end of the year we should be looking at 7 different PGs from the 2009 draft alone already starting in the league with Evans, Rubio, Jennings, Holliday, Lawson, Teague, and Collison (possibly 8 if you count Toney Douglas). Depessingly, 4 of those guys were taken with the 5 picks directly before Claver, with the 6th being another potential starter in Eric Maynor, if he ever makes it to a team that doesn’t have Russell Westbrook on it.

by Royster on Jan 18, 2012 7:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, but Claver was still a horrible pick.

The rest are pretty excusable. I defy anyone to find a playoff team that has more than one player taken in the 20’s that is a true rotation player and on their rookie deal. The list is probably longer than I realize, but still short.

Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!

by HailOden! on Jan 18, 2012 9:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Easy quick example

2008 Boston Celtics. Rondo and Tony Allen as mid 20’s picks on their rookie deals, Powe and Big Baby as 2nd rounders on their first deals. Bonus Kendrick Perkins in the first year of a cheap extension.

If we’re talking this year alone and digging a little, Miami has Chalmers and Cole who would both be on rookie deals if Chalmers wasn’t a 2nd rounder. Chicago has Taj Gibson and Omer Asik. OKC has Ibaka and Maynor (I know, technically hurt, but Reggie Jackson is his mid-20’s replacement). The Spurs have James Anderson and Tiago Splitter (along with a couple 2nd rounders who would be on rookie deals with Blair and Danny Green). Denver has Rudy and Koufos.

If anything, we’re in the minority by not having a couple late first rounders who are contributing.on their rookie deals.

by Royster on Jan 19, 2012 12:06 AM PST up reply actions  

We have Wes$

and undrafted FA, we have Nic Batum still on a rookie scale deal. We played Rudy, till he sucked it up enough to get sent out of town, Brandon Roy was ROY, LMA played since his rookie year, Nolan Smith got some run tonight, hopefully more. JBay played a decent role in his Sophomore year, Donte and Jeff played their rookie years.

by AR-15 on Jan 19, 2012 12:22 AM PST up reply actions  

HO was saying that it's rare for playoff teams

to have more than one rotation player from the late 1st on a rookie deal. Just pointing out that it’s pretty common. I thought about including Wes in my list, but given that we didn’t draft/sign him originally, I don’t think it could like the others (Danny Green is the only comparable mentioned above). Most of those guys you mention with us from previous years were taken higher than the 20th pick, and so wouldn’t fit the original criteria.

by Royster on Jan 19, 2012 12:42 AM PST up reply actions  

We're

Not even getting role players out of these drafts. That I blame on Nate as he isn’t good at defining roles so its hard for players to develop specific strengths.

by Cabbol on Jan 18, 2012 6:29 PM PST reply actions  

I give Nate credit for getting more out of lesser players.

He put Outlaw in a position to be an asset rather than a major liability by playing him at the 4 and giving him isos at the elbow. Outlaw was also very solid from outside He contributed, even though he’s not a very good all-around player. J Bay didn’t have an outside shot and was poor at using his speed to create open looks for other players. He was a solid fill-in for B Roy, but a poor complement, and a major disappointment at the defensive end. Nate had Dante Cunningham contributing as a starter. His mid range jumper and Nate’s defensive schemes hid his weaknesses on both ends of the courts. He still got PWND on the boards by bigger guys, but he DID contribute to wins.

In truth, we’ve seen most of these guys get chances. The ones Nate favored contributed. The ones Nate didn’t have gone on to even worse fortunes elsewhere. Channing is an example of a guy who needed a different system. J Bay too. Otherwise, Nate got more, and in some cases MUCH more, out of below average NBA players than any coach has. It helped to have B Roy, of course, whose presence alone gets guys open lanes and looks.

/s

by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jan 19, 2012 10:14 AM PST up reply actions  

The hard part is watching good players that we're in a position to draft go to other teams.

I’m not talking about Durant, and I’m not talking about the late 2nd rounders that some how pan out (Monta Ellis is the one that always sticks out in my mind). I’m talking about DaJuan Blair. I’m talking about Kenneth Faried. I’m talking about Omri Casspi and Taj Gibson. Ryan Anderson. The list is longer too……

All those guys went after Portland had a chance to nab them. And its not like people weren’t clamoring for them. The fans wanted those guys, the media predicted Portland taking them, the radio guys wanted them, etc. Management looks like a genius when the don’t listen to the cries for Adam Morrison and get Aldridge and Roy instead.

But they look equally dumb when the draft Wheelchair Oden and then cite Dajuan Blair’s knees as a cause for concern (with no risk 2nd round pick!) and Blair makes a nice HEALTHY career for himself. Everyone wants Faried? Its cool to pass on him if you get a stud instead, but Nolan Smith? And trade for Felton? And sign Crawford? And are still sitting on a combo guard from last year’s draft? WHY? Again, its genius if Smith is a diamond in a rough. But 3 weeks into the season, he clearly isn’t.

And why even draft Claver if he isn’t even going to come over for a summer league or training camp? You might as well have sold the pick. Its purely a waste.

The draft isn’t a science, its an art. Most late picks don’t become stars. But a lot do carve out rolls for themselves in the league. Many even become starters. How is it that we haven’t even landed one single rotation player in 3 years? With 10 picks? No one since Batum.

I think its safe to say that few teams have been as BAD at drafting as Portland has. Which is a bummer because with picks like Roy and Aldridge (forget Durant) we could have been competing for a title with even marginal drafts in the years that followed. Instead we’ve got ourselves NUTHIN.

I don’t know if Nate is to blame, or the scouts, or the GM turntable, or Paul Allen. But I do blame Nate for screwing up Jerryd Bayless. He could have been our PG if the coach did his job there.
/end rant, time for bed.

by 7Up on Jan 18, 2012 9:24 PM PST reply actions  

Don't forget that we traded up in the draft

to get Babbitt and Bayless. I thought those guys were going to justify the picks — otherwise, why give up additional players for them?

by Kaboomm on Jan 18, 2012 10:14 PM PST reply actions  

Claver and Babbitt were the worst.

I suppose, at the time, wing position was a key need for the future, but I still disagree with the assessment that either of these guys were NBA material. It’s just bad talent assessment, followed by inept draft day decision making.

/s

by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jan 19, 2012 10:08 AM PST reply actions  

Dante could have produced, and will elsewhere :(

Look out for Memphis.

For the billionth time, Nate does not play rookie pgs, he is not the giddy one for them, he is also not the one who has the final say and signs the checks. Get off Nate PLEASE !!

Maybe, we could possibly draft a big man once in a while, dont be scared Paul, just because Greg didnt work out. You have to do it if you want to win.

just win baby !

by FrenchieFan on Jan 19, 2012 11:30 AM PST reply actions  

Blah

Dante was so undersized & besides his mid range jumper he had no other offensive moves.

"We gotta get this $#!^ together guys!" - Phil

by 420Phenom on Jan 19, 2012 12:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Same height as KT

much more upside than Rhino imo. Best draft pick Portlands seen in the above mentioned years. We’ll see how Dante developes. I like the kid. Watching the Rhino being towered over makes me throw up in my mouth every time. Talk about undersized. Were not playing football here.

just win baby !

by FrenchieFan on Jan 19, 2012 12:42 PM PST up reply actions  

He has some good post moves though

I mean its not like he’s bad, he is short, but so is Chuck Hayes.

by AR-15 on Jan 19, 2012 12:44 PM PST up reply actions  

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