Blazers G Raymond Felton Has Been Terrible But It Will (Probably) Get Better
by Ben Golliver on Jan 17, 2012 1:40 PM PST
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PrintMonday was probably rock bottom.
New Portland Trail Blazers point guard Raymond Felton has gotten off to a terrible start during the 2011-2012 season. That hasn't been a secret since opening night. A Monday win over the New Orleans Hornets typified the struggles: 1-for-8 from the floor, 0-for-3 from deep, 2 points, 8 turnovers.
Dwight Jaynes of CSNNW.com writes...
The Blazer point guards are a continuing train wreck. Raymond Felton turned the ball over eight times in 37 minutes and Jamal Crawford had four in 23 minutes. Neither guy can consistently hit shots. Long-term, this will not work.
Jason Quick of The Oregonian writes...
On the list of concerns, none are more alarming and obvious than the poor play at guard, where newcomers Raymond Felton and Jamal Crawford are still getting acclimated.
So far this season, if Felton and Crawford aren't turning the ball over in bunches, they are missing shots like a fan during a timeout promotion. And if they are protecting the ball during the first three quarters of the game, they are coughing it up in crunch time.
As of Tuesday, Felton ranks as the No. 50 point guard in the NBA when it comes to PER; he's currently squeezed between Earl Watson and Mike Bibby on that efficiency leaderboard. Last year, Felton was No. 17. For his career, he's generally been in the mid-to-low 20s, with one season at No. 35.
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For comparison's sake, last year's No. 50 point guard was Gilbert Arenas. Felton is being blown out of the water by both Ty Lawson (No. 6) and Andre Miller (No. 28). He's the ninth best point guard in the Northwest Division. Let that one sink in.
Indeed, if you run a side-by-side comparison between Felton and Miller -- the two point guards were traded for each other on the night of the 2011 NBA Draft -- there's no comparison. Miller's raw scoring and assist numbers are slightly lower because he's coming off the bench in Denver, but he's shooting better, he's shooting better from deep, he's turning the ball over way less, he has a significantly better assist to turnover ratio and all of the advanced statistics (PER, Value Added, Estimated Wins Added) are heavily in his favor. Numbers via HoopData.com.
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How did we get there? Well, there has already been a highlight tape worth of blunders for Felton in Portland's first 13 games, starting on opening night against Philadelphia. He's lost the ball while crashing to the floor on critical possessions; he's tried and failed to complete an unnecessary behind-the-back pass on a critical possession; he's lost the ball off his leg on a critical possession; he's thrown the ball away for uncontested lay-ups the other way on the first possession of a game multiple times; he's missed free throws in key moments; he's zipped passes off his teammates' hands and, more than anything, he has bricked shot after shot to the tune of 14 percent from deep.
Monday's performance also typified just how unusually bad Felton has been this season compared to previous years. Why? Felton has played 487 NBA games and has accumulated 8 or more turnovers on just three occasions -- the last time being October 31, 2009 -- before Monday. The 27-year-old veteran is currently shooting worse than he did as a 21-year-old rookie and he is currently converting just half as many three-pointers as his previous career-low. This from a player whose overall shooting percentage hasn't moved much in the last four seasons, even if his three-point shooting has hit peaks and valleys.
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His turnover rate, also virtually unchanged over five NBA seasons, is significantly higher than ever before.
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As Kevin Pelton of Basketball Prospectus and other Felton defenders are quick to point out, there is one element of his game that's proven to be stable: his distributing. Felton's 7.2 assists per game are in line with his previous production. You could argue -- and certainly those who traded for him would -- that Felton is therefore accomplishing his primary objective, despite the major early-season funk. That's small consolation if incompetent ball-control is one of your pet peeves, but it does need to be acknowledged.
Like pretty much everyone else on Portland's roster, Felton is in a contract year. He's in a prototypical situation where a player stands to earn tens of millions of dollars: The Blazers have no other readily-available, starting-quality options, he is a theoretical fit on paper given his skillset, he's about to enter his prime years, he's remained extremely durable and avoided major injuries as a pro, and he has the opportunity to play as many minutes as he likes with the ball in his hands.
It's surprising, to this point, that this equation is adding up to his worst year as a pro. Felton's raw numbers took a hit during his 2009-2010 contract year in Charlotte, too, but he at least shot the ball well and limited his turnovers.
Thanks to the shortened season, hopes for a career year from Felton are probably already out the window. But, given Portland's 8-5 record to date in spite of Felton's struggles, the Blazers don't really need a career year. At this point, a slightly below average version of his previous production would more than suffice. Maybe it's time to start bringing "Strive For Average!" signs to the Rose Garden.
The solutions to achieving average are not rocket science. One: make more three pointers. If one is not possible: stop shooting three pointers. Two: strap some velcro to the basketball. If two is not possible: reduce his ball-handling role and decision-making responsibilities in the halfcourt offense.
You might be wondering why Felton gets the microscope treatment here and not Crawford. After all, Crawford, too, is turning over the ball at nearly a career-high rate and is shooting at career-low marks from the field and from deep so far this season. The answer should be obvious. Felton is a 27-year-old starting point guard whose future in Portland is a key plot line; Crawford is a 31-year-old reserve scorer whose short-term impact far outweighs his long-term impact. Crawford, also, is playing as a slightly worse version of himself and he's always been known as a streak shooter, that's his key identifying characteristic. His reputation is formed.
Felton, as shown above, is off his own charts bad through the first 13 games. Yes, he's a bit of a used car, but he hasn't been a true lemon during his NBA career, at least not until this season. It doesn't really matter which excuse you use to explain his struggles -- conditioning, the lockout, new teammates, new coach, putting too much pressure on himsef, etc. -- the safe money says that if Monday wasn't the absolute bottom, it was close.
-- Ben Golliver | benjamin.golliver@gmail.com | Twitter
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Two things
1) Portland is 8-5
2) The Miller for Felton comparison only makes sense in the context that they were traded for each other (and picks, mind you). Other than that it completely falls apart. They play different roles, Denver’s bench is substantially better, and Ty Lawson is 6th PG PER.
Are you saying
Felton hasn’t been an unmitigated disaster?
Minor disaster, I can accept, but no better. He’s been a hack.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jan 17, 2012 2:36 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Two more (related) things...
1) small sample size. This is 13 games. His rates will regress to his mean, which still isn’t an all-star caliber pg, but is much better than what he’s shown. The other day, before the road trip started, The Oregonian idiotically compared Wallace’s Home/Road stats, after he’d only played 3 road games, suggesting he was just a Superman at home. It’s FAR too early to start doubting Felton.
2) these 13 games are his first 13 with this team, which is playing a very compressed schedule that is proving difficult for LOTS of players and teams. It takes more than 13 games to start feeling comfortable enough to start playing creatively AND well.
Yeah, we need a little controversy every day, but this one is pretty silly (though not as silly as the Wallace one…)
by flightrisk on Jan 17, 2012 3:00 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
13 games, does not a hack make.
by Oden Mad, Oden Smash! on Jan 17, 2012 4:21 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
He's "been" a hack,
were my exact words. Subtle detail but an important one.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jan 17, 2012 6:52 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Excuses!!!!
Everybody stop playing the “compressed schedule” post lockout excuse. They’re all playing in the same league and dealing with the same compressed schedule. Or do we live in a bubble here in Portland and our players are the only ones effected?
13 games IS a great sample of ones productivity. Most of his mistakes have not been timing issues or chemistry that one might have playing on a new team. He’s making horrible decisions with the ball and can’t make a shot to save his life.
Does he get better? I believe he will but that doesn’t change how bad he’s been on this team.
by OfficerCosta on Jan 17, 2012 7:23 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
well said
I have plenty of hope of Felton regressing to the mean, but so far he’s been pretty bad, though his distribution production remains.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."
by thankyouforblaze on Jan 18, 2012 12:48 AM PST up reply actions
Just because of the compressed schedule
and shorter season those 13 games have even greater value.And of course because of this there is no room for excuses. And if Felton in his contract year is so unconvincing,what can we expect in the future from him?
I at least hope in the following season the Blazers to have different starting PG.
You know how people say Nates a good coach because players that leave portland are rarely productive
Does this mean Nate is a bad coach because productive players come here and do poorly?
The tensions are so high because the stakes are so low!
by tylercomp on Jan 17, 2012 1:50 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
You can't take the Felton case and extend it out generally.
Juwan Howard? GREAT year with Portland. James Jones? Very good year with Portland. Wallace’s numbers are up. Camby didn’t fall off a cliff when he got here, though his age made that an easy prediction.
But I think I want to deconstruct your original supposition a bit further. While I do think some people have asserted that Nate is a good coach because the Travis Outlaws of the world had their best years under him, I wouldn’t go that far. The real original assertion was that “Nate ruins young players” and others have cited the Travis Outlaws of the world as evidence to refute that assertion.
So to sum up that lengthy reasoning… there is no evidence that Coach Nate ruins promising young rookies, and that is all. No further conclusions can or should be drawn.
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice they're not.
by conspirator5 on Jan 17, 2012 2:42 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
i like that
I hadn’t thought about it that way, unfortuanitally, it now does make sense to me that nate ruins young potential. Babbitt would probably be an all-star otherwise
The tensions are so high because the stakes are so low!
by tylercomp on Jan 17, 2012 4:05 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
RE POST: One thing that kinda bums me out is Rays ceiling isnt much higher that it already is!
Raymond is playing just below his career averages. Right now this season he averages 11.1pts 6.8ast 2.8rebs 2.6tos and his career #’s are 13.6pts 6.7 ast and 3.4rebs 2.6tos.
Seems to me there isnt much more that Ray is gonna give us.
Unless he has a complete turn around to his game, hes barely shy of what hes averaged over his career. Not holding out for a better PG and trading away Dre was not a good move, atleast it appears that way so far. Even so, I say we need a starting center position more than we need to upgrade Ray at this time.
by cavejunctionblazer on Jan 17, 2012 1:50 PM PST reply actions
also the 1 time Felly looked really good was in NY
In Dantonis supercharged offense
by cavejunctionblazer on Jan 17, 2012 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
I think he is playing more minutes than he has previously
the numbers will go up
The tensions are so high because the stakes are so low!
The issue isn't Felton's production
It is his efficiency….that is a big issue….
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 17, 2012 1:59 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
theres not much more he has to give in either case
by cavejunctionblazer on Jan 17, 2012 2:02 PM PST up reply actions
wrong
if he shoots his career percentage he becomes a pretty good point guard.
percentages tend to bear out which means he has a hot streak coming.
false
in the aggregate the percentages will even out. does not mean a hot streak is coming.
Yeah, most likely
would mean Ray plays at roughly his career percentages going forward, although you’d ideally want to weight his more recent performances more if you were projecting going forward. Given that he’s coming off a career half season with NY last year and a career worst season so far (if you can even call it a season), I’m not sure what the exact effect of the weighting would be.
Ray will almost certainly play better at some point, but given the hole he’s dug through the first sixth of the season, most likely is that his season numbers end up a little worse than his career ones.
The Gamberl's Fallacy results from predicting that the laws the govern large numbers will apply to small numbers.
The best basketball example of this comes from streak shooters. It is a fallacy to say that a player who has missed or hit his previous two or three attempts is any more or less likely than his career average to hit his next shot. What does this mean for Felton? The fact is, Felton is producing some alarmingly bad statistical averages after thirteen games. What is important to remember is that Felton’s next shot attempt is just as likely to go in as his career average would indicate. At least that is the safe bet. Yes, quality of defense and the difficulty of the shot attempt will heavily factor in the chance of that shot going in. However, it would be a similar fallacy to say that Felton’s is more likely continue his career low shooting percent than to regress (in this case meaning increase) to his career averages.
Over a small sample size you are actually very likely to see streaks.. It is when people start thinking that the laws govern large numbers and statistical averages (say a 7 year NBA career) are a good tool for predicting the outcome of a small sample sizes.
If we assume that Felton is going to eventually produce stats that are within line with his career averages it will follow that Felton is due for a bump in the numbers. According to the Gambler’s Fallacy it is not a good bet that Felton will break out of his streak of poor shooting tomorrow or the next game. I hope Felton’s career averages and his upward trend in performance over the years holds. I’m not ready to agree with the assessment that Felton just all of a sudden stopped being a good NBA player because of a few streaks of bad shooting over the span of thirteen games.
I won’t claim that I know when Felton will go on a run of several hit shot but I will claim that it’s damn likely that he will some time. I will also claim that we will be a lot happier with Felton’s stats by the end of the year.
Future research.
What is the best thirteen game stretch of Felton’s career? What is the worst? What about other Blazers? I would be interested in this because I think we would see some really wacky statistics for all the players on the team.
by Oden Mad, Oden Smash! on Jan 17, 2012 5:10 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
How about the sports fan's falacy:
What is important to remember is that Felton’s next shot attempt is just as likely to go in as his career average would indicate. At least that is the safe bet.
The problem being that statistical models based on CONSTANT RANDOM factors, like rolling a die, are at best (very) rough aproximations of VARIABLE uncontrolled complex interacting factors, many of which may be unrecognized, which produce the totality of a players performance on on the floor. People do change for LOTS of reasons in lots of ways.
So, yeah, lots of ‘wacky’ statistics around. What experienced eye see on the floor is probably more significant.
Of course you're very likely to see streaks
But the net expected result of these future streaks should roughly add up to his career averages over the rest of the year. His past performance should still have no effect on his future performance, and the only real exceptions to this would all mean continued negative performance.
Certainly he’d continue to play poorly if he had some nagging unknown injuries, or issues with the rest of the team. If he were completely okay, though, he’d presumably revert to his career averages, assuming he tallied those statistics in the absence of whatever issues.
His current performance is in the books. What you’re saying is identical to the gambler’s fallacy, i.e. we should expect his year end numbers to look like his career numbers because those are his averages, it’s no different than saying, I expect 50% tails on a coin flip, and I’ve already flipped 7 heads in 8 tries. If he goes on a tear all of a sudden, I’d expect that to be followed by another slump that will more or less cancel it out.
As Berkeley said, these aren’t perfectly random events like coin flips, and it’s certainly possible that his performance is being hindered by outside factors, but the same general tendencies still apply. If Felton had torn it up for the previous 13 games, it would be far more likely that he ended the season with a PER greater than his career average than one at his career average.
That situation is more or less what happened with him last year. He tore it up on the Knicks for half the season, and then got traded to Denver, where he roughly approximated his Charlotte performance. Not surprisingly, his averages over the entire year were the best of his career.
I would contend that the rules that apply to chance and odds don't hold true
when applied to something infinity controllable like shot selection and ball handling
by skott75 on Jan 17, 2012 4:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec. A game of basketball is NOT a random event.
Stats show what happened in the past. What happens in the future is up to the player.
by manfredi on Jan 17, 2012 4:32 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Fact!
You try playing NBA basketball with hands covered with donut filling and see how easy it is.
by UtleysHairGel on Jan 17, 2012 1:50 PM PST reply actions 9 recs
Playing with hair gel on your hands actually helps though
Makes it sticky…..bet you knew that, though…
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 17, 2012 2:01 PM PST up reply actions
A couple thoughts:
1) Felton has not always been the premiere, number 1 guy. Some of his stats may have been accumulated while facing more 2nd units than he’s seeing now.
2a) This is a small sample size zooming in on the first 12 games with a new team.
2b) That new team just radically transformed its image from a slow, methodical team to a run-and-gun team.
2c) In this small sample size, Felton has faced a lot of good teams.
With that said, I think he clearly isn’t playing up to his skill level. As you said, he needs to simply play better. Hopefully things get ironed out. Quickly.
by prezofdeath on Jan 17, 2012 1:50 PM PST reply actions 6 recs
not true
Felton was the clear stater and was posting all-star #s in New York before being traded to Denver. He was the #1 clear starter in Charlotte before that. So I don’t know why you’d say he’s been getting his numbers against 2nd units – he’s been a starter since he came into the league
by rip_city_swagger on Jan 17, 2012 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
Can't have it both ways
#2b usually tends to inflate stats. In fact, if Mike D’Antoni’s Knicks don’t qualify as a run-and-gun team, then no one does, and that was Felton’s last major stop where he achieved his best marks.
You could possibly argue that other teammates not cashing him out might hurt his assists, but that’s the one stat that’s remained okay. It’s the shooting and turnovers, and that’s all on him, nothing to do with Nate or the rest of the team.
could it have something to do with very limited training camp/pre-season/practice time DURING
this season…with a new team?
And I am sure that playing for a former point guard who EMPHASIZES holding onto the ball probably has put some pressure on Felton.
Wish Miller was Felton’s age..because that was totally the reason the Blazers traded for him. He’s younger than Miller….
The no training camp excuse
could be used on every player in the league but Raymond still ranks 50th.
by JeffePortland on Jan 17, 2012 6:21 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
True, but Felton ate to many doughnuts
He is working with new players that hasn’t ran his type of offense before, so there is one heck of a lot of getting use too and a pot belly to get rid of.
hg
if age was totally the reason, (which I doubt - maybe A reason, more of an excuse)
it was profoundly inept to remove an effective PG who knows your team for a one year guaranteed replacement, who was barely presentable as equivalent.
Andre was voted as ‘most valuable’ a year ago by BEdgers !
Felton’s winning category ?
Yeah, it is not over. But since I always hated the trade, it never started for me.
yeah...I loved Miller from the start..because I saw how his team slaughtered the
Blazers when 76ers were on a back to back. Then read an article about his background…how he was brought up and fought to go to college…I respected his game and who he was/is.
Then came all of the nonsense about Blake starting..ugh..
Miss Miller.
Will give Felton a chance.
Here's the rub with pace though,
a lot of Felton’s (un)memorable turnovers have been in the half court. A missed lob on the break you live with. A I’m-slowly-dribbling-right-and-throwing-it-Blaze is not acceptable from a veteran PG. He’s just looked like a guy who isn’t concentrating.
That’s not even getting into his weight either, which is a problem.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jan 17, 2012 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
2a) Would seem to be the most important factor here
I’m in agreement with you. I don’t think comparing the first 12 games of a compressed season together with a shortened training camp against previous complete seasons does us much justice at all.
Maybe in another 15 games we might be able to draw more conclusions.
"Regressing to the mean"
You can also progress to the mean.
by KevinRileyFTW on Jan 17, 2012 1:52 PM PST up reply actions
good lord - let's step off the ledge a little bit
it was a non-existant pre-season thanks to the lockout. Training camps were like 10-14 days. Of course our brand new PG that’s never played for us is going to struggle a bit
For all the heat Felton is taking, he’s far better than any other PG we’ve had here in a while. If we actually get an elite PG someday no one will have anything to talk about on this site
by rip_city_swagger on Jan 17, 2012 1:51 PM PST reply actions 10 recs
Ray's been pretty significantly worse
than every starting PG we’ve had in a while, probably since Telfair, to be honest. The fact that he has to carry a much greater playmaking load than Blake or Jack would be a mitigating factor, but between the turnovers and terrible FG% on his shot volume, Ray’s been taking a whole lot off the table for everything that he’s been bringing to it. His abysmal PER and WS/48 bear this out.
Unless you really rate Ray’s defense (I’m not a huge fan, but think he’s decent on that end), Ray isn’t helping us right now.
by Royster on Jan 17, 2012 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
But it was that way for all the other PGs as well
It’s like when my kids complain about losing their soccer game because the field was too muddy, as if the other team wasn’t playing on the same field.
His problems aren’t ones of fitting in or acclimating to new teammates.
how many other point guards have changed teams? Miller..and he is a very smart
guy who has played for Denver before…
His problems..other than his shooting…the turnovers…most definitively could be related to f
itting in or acclimating to new teammates.
I think most of us see his problems as his shooting and turnovers (many of which have had more to do with Ray getting his pocket picked than any unfamiliarity with teammates)
So are you saying that we should give Ray a break because he isn’t smart?
Miller…. and he is very smart
We should also remember that Ray has been with a few teams. He has had to acclimate to new teammates before…. He’s never been this bad at it.
I am saying give Felton a break because there was minimal training camp this year.
2 pre-season games and a prolonged off season. He is learning an entirely new system as a point guard, under a new coach who he’s never worked with before.
And I said Miller is a very smart (high BBall IQ at LEAST) point guard who is working with a new team BUT has also worked under Karl in the past.
I believe Chris Paul’s numbers are probably not as good as usual this year either.
Felton is obviously not in fantastic shape. He’s playing many minutes in a short period of time. In a system that at first said…go go go and do your own thing and now has become…let me call out every play for you..
I just think it would be difficult as a point guard to play for McMillan. Period.
i disagree
turnovers are definitely related to familiarity level with teammates and system, no question
even shooting can be effected if you’re getting shots in different spots and situations than you’re used to
I’m not saying its ALL because of that, but it can be a factor
by rip_city_swagger on Jan 17, 2012 7:24 PM PST up reply actions
"he’s far better than any other PG we’ve had here in a while"
He still needs to prove that. He hasn’t so far and his past stats don’t back that up completely.
Ray will get all the accolades he deserves when he steps it up and shuts his critics down.
"he’s far better than any other PG we’ve had here in a while"
Can someone explain this to me? To say that is a stretch is a stretch.
by JeffePortland on Jan 17, 2012 6:24 PM PST up reply actions
overall, what he brings to the floor is better than what we've had
it doen’t always show up in pure stats, but just having a PG thats a THREAT to drive on a pick-and-roll, and a PG that’s actually a THREAT to hit an open 3 makes the whole offense run better.
by rip_city_swagger on Jan 17, 2012 7:20 PM PST up reply actions
he is positively, absolutely, 100%
NOT a threat to hit from three and he’s not finishing at the rim either. Even putting “pure stats” aside (whatever that mean?) he’s been terrible with just the eyeball test too. Will he stay this bad? Probably not, but to suggest that what he’s been doing on the court has exceeded the play of Miller, Blake, Jarret Jack, et al. is just flat out not true.
Man, the bar for what gets called “good” has been lowered to depths I’ve never seen before.
by nikolokolus on Jan 17, 2012 11:04 PM PST up reply actions
No shake charts?
Talk about a disappointing analysis post.
All kidding aside, good summary of the situation with Ray. I was always pretty skeptical of the idea that he’d be an upgrade over Andre, but his poor play so far is pretty clearly worse than it will be in the long run. He’ll definitely be better, but it’s getting past the point to hope for even “2010-2011 Andre”-level performance over the course of the year.
by Royster on Jan 17, 2012 1:52 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Andre can't play his style
I firmly believe we would have less wins with Miller
The tensions are so high because the stakes are so low!
Miller loved to run
Nate wouldn’t change the way the Blazers played until they lost Roy. That was the problem.
If Felton isn’t hitting his 3’s and drawing a defender, he is strictly worse though younger than Miller. By why go for worse only to get it longer? He needs to step up his handle AND his shot.
Now all we need is the rest of the roster to get into "how can everybody help Nicco and Oden" mode. -- Oden Mad, Oden Smash! Sep 29, 2010 7:47 PM
Citation please.
Youtube videos would be an acceptable submission. I remember a last season where Roy was mostly not on the court and Nate was yelling from the sidelines for the team to push it u court and get into their sets early and pressure the opposing defenses… and if Dre didn’t feel like it, Dre didn’t do it.
Sometimes he does feel like it… but that always seemed to be on his own timetable, and never in the 4th quarter.
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice they're not.
by conspirator5 on Jan 17, 2012 2:48 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Whoops, I did a "finger roll."
push it u court
First one today! :-)
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice they're not.
by conspirator5 on Jan 17, 2012 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
I gotta disagree, I think Miller liked to throw long passes, but seldom pushed the ball via the dribble
Miller loved to run
Nate wouldn’t change the way the Blazers played until they lost Roy. That was the problem.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jan 17, 2012 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yep. Miller's idea of a break was to pass from the back court and watch.
Roy didn’t run either, though. Miller is probably gone because he didn’t listen to Nate.
You know who listened to Nate all of the time?
Blake. And that is about what kind of point guard Nate wants. Someone who will do as he says.
I think I am back to thinking I’d like a different kind of coach for the Blazers. Maybe Monty Williams will be available soon.
The Nuggets
were consistently a top 5 team in pace when Andre was there. The Bobcats were a consistently average to slow paced team with Felton (outside of his rookie year), there’s really nothing special about Felton playing on the break. Coaches dictate pace more than anything.
Well, you can believe what you want.
The numbers, as well as majority of eyes here, doesn’t agree with your belief. I fail to see how turning the ball over and bricking shots is conducive to more wins just because one guy might play a bit faster.
The cake was a lie.
i'd argue he's already been better than Andre - despite the poor shooting
defenses actually have to stay home on him at the 3 point line. He hasn’t been shooting well, but he’s more of a threat than Andre ever was. He also pushes the tempo much better than Dre did. Dre was a better pure passer and playmaker, but Felton is more of an overall threat
by rip_city_swagger on Jan 17, 2012 1:55 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry yall Dre>Ray with Portland
by cavejunctionblazer on Jan 17, 2012 2:00 PM PST up reply actions 9 recs
so far
but if we weren’t going anywhere with Dre at PG anyway then how much of a difference does it really make in the big picture?
Also, Dre > Ray with Portland is not the same as Portland with Dre > Portland with Ray. Not saying it’s not the case, but we certainly don’t know yet.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jan 17, 2012 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Even if he continues to be an abject failure
I don’t really mind that we took a flyer on Ray. I didn’t expect much, but the off chance that we could (or eventually will) get a rough Miller equivalent who was seven years younger with a slightly more compatible skill set made it a worthwhile gamble to me. There wasn’t a whole lot of daylight between NY Felton and Portland Andre, so it’s not like it was a completely ridiculous idea.
The early returns aren’t great, but just even the best bets lose sometimes.
by Royster on Jan 17, 2012 3:15 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
my sentiments exactly
well said
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Except that
There wasn’t a whole lot of daylight between NY Felton and Portland Andre
one of them was playing in the fastest offense in the league, and the other was playing in the slowest. That’s an extreme amount of daylight.
PER is pace- and minute-adjusted
Ray was 17.3 with NY last year, Miller was 17.8 last year. Ray’s raw numbers with NY were certainly more impressive (17 points, 9 assists compared to 13 points, 7 assists for Miller), so if you went by them you’d say Felton was MORE impressive than Andre, not slightly worse like I posited.
There’s a little more of a gap looking at WS/48, but I’d say it’s still close enough to that one imagine him becoming a reasonable Andre facsimile.
by Royster on Jan 17, 2012 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah I agree
At best Dre might have got us a few more wins. The potential upside with Ray outweighed any perceived risk.
I still stand by Dre > Ray in Portland
until Ray proves me wrong.
Also not necessarily saying that Dre>Ray playing somewhere else but in Portland so far Dre>Ray
by cavejunctionblazer on Jan 17, 2012 4:08 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with this too
So far Ray hasn’t even approached what Dre brought almost every game. I understand why we had to give Ray a shot though.
I’ve been very critical of Ray lately but I’m still hoping he’ll get his game back in gear. I’ll continue to be critical until he does so.
'aren't going anywhere' ?
we (the Blazers) are going to be a bunch of games all season that presumably a lot of us will be rooting for and watching – preferably withoug significant physical damage to smashed CRT screens and other handy opjects watching the play on the court, emotional distress, and general shame.
We are definitely going somewhere. And it is not just the final result. If we could just ‘enjoy the ride’, that would be great. Pretty clear the PG action so far has generally not been enjoyable, except for the opposition that is.
Hey, I’m sure Ramond is a great guy, and I don’t want to pile on him. My gripe is not with him, or any players. It is with management decisions.
we can agree to disagree
I loved Andre Miller but it’s not like he was amazing to watch…at least with Felton it’s a more attractive style of play. He’ll get better, the point is it was worth the risk and it doesn’t hurt us at all in the big picture
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
ie: to keep McMillan.
Why isn’t he playing more of his bench? Does he not realize these guys are going to get injured if they play a ton of minutes in a compressed period of time?
Most other teams are playing 10 deep…not the Blazers.
How in the world are these new guys going to get to be any good if they never play or play in fear of making a mistake and getting yanked.
Well here is my prediction. I think that there will be injuries (given how wonderful the Portland fitness/training team is in combo with the sched this yr. and the number of minutes the first 8 are playing) and then McMillan will be forced to go deeper into his bench.
Comparing Dre to Felton is INSANE
Miller has over 7100 assists and a 18 Career PER in almost 1000 games. Felton has a 14.4 career PER in 467 games. Felton is playing HORRIBLY so far this year, although he’s bound to improve. Felton isn’t, and was never, in Miller’s class as a player. The only thing that made the trade tenable was the age factor. Even the ‘spreading the floor’ attribute was bunk because Felton is NOT a good outside shooter. 41.4% and 33% carer from 3 bears this out.
Miller > greater than Felton all day, everyday. Even now.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
by zeusmith on Jan 17, 2012 7:52 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
And just to be clear
The idea to get Felton wasn’t all that bad at this stage of Felton’s career (in a contract year) and with Miller getting up in age. With that said, I was still against the idea because I knew Felton was a tier-2 guard on both ends.
I would have preferred keeping Andre, and drafting a PGOTF. Andre would have made a terrific bench option if resigned past 2012 and Nate would have been FORCED to actually play a young PG in the rotation. As it stands now, Portland drafted a combo guard in Nolan Smith, who’s wasting away on the bench while Jamal Crawford plays the backup 2.
In essence, by trading for Felton, Nate isn’t compelled to groom a PGOTF and we might be forced to give Felton more money than he’s worth to stay. And we didn’t draft a true point like Norris Cole or Reggie Jackson for the future. The Felton ‘gamble’ has backfired on more than just his play on the court.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
"And we didn’t draft a true point like Norris Cole or Reggie Jackson for the future."
But neither of those guys are true point guards. Among the bundle of late-first to mid-second round guard prospects in the 2011 NBA Draft, the closest to a pure point was Darius Morris.
I, however, wouldn’t’ve drafted Morris, who was too ball dominant and also a streaky shooter coming out of Michigan. Yet, to Morris’ credit, he did draw comparisons to Ramon Sessions.
"I Am Mine"
Maybe not, but they're arguably more PG than Nolan
The trade for Felton turned McMillan into an enabler. He’s going to enable Felton to play way more minutes than he should, and we’ll be forced to re-sign Felton because we have no capable back up. The trade also disallowed us from drafting a desperately needed big man like Kenneth Faried.
Whether Felton turns it around or not, I think he’s our PG for better or worse.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
I just hope you are wrong about re-sign Felton,
extending the blunder.
Really, I think the start of a real solution is a GM whose first move is get a new coach. I just want a new vision and real new control. Hopefully next off season.
Not even close at this point
I hope Ray gets better but teams are mostly letting him shoot. Dre could at least finish in the paint consistently and he’s shooting better from distance than Ray this season.
ya
Millers 1 glaring problem was inability to hit the 3. Dre is a super smart pg so he makes up for that by by a playmaker. Rays career fg% is only 41%, right now hes shooting 34% thats not much difference from what his career #’s are.
by cavejunctionblazer on Jan 17, 2012 4:12 PM PST up reply actions
Career -wise it's a wash statistically speaking
GP MPG FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% RPG APG BLKPG STLPG PFPG TOPG PPG
Miller
991 34.3.. 5.3-11.5 . .458 0.1-0.7.. .204 3.6-4.5.. .807… 4.1… 7.2… 0.2… 1.4……. 2.4….. 2.6.. 14.3
Felton
487 35.2.. 5.0-12.3.. .411 1.0-3.1.. .327 2.5-3.1.. .785… 3.4… 6.8… 0.2… 1.4……. 2.2….. 2.6.. 13.6
I agree with cavejunction though as I believe Miller is a better ball handler and passer, better at setting up a set (higher IQ) and better at lay-ups. I would guess that Felton has a whole season to prove to me I’m wrong.
which is exactly what we need
Apg who
" is a better ball handler and passer, better at setting up a set (higher IQ) and better at lay-ups."
thank you well said
by cavejunctionblazer on Jan 17, 2012 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
What's the word I'm looking for?
“Poppycock?” Yeah, that seems pretty close.
There’s no objective nor subjective measure you could point to that says Felton is out-playing Andre Miller when he was in a Blazers’ uniform. Stats, eyeball test, SWAG test … you name it and Miller was/is far superior to the player that Felton has been as a Blazer.
by nikolokolus on Jan 17, 2012 11:09 PM PST up reply actions
"i'd argue he's already been better than Andre - despite the poor shooting "
I argue that Miller has proven to be much better than Felton so far.// I mean their whole career /.And that after Felton ended his career he would remain in history as worse PG than Dre.
In Philadelphia, they regretted that they had not kept Miller. Similarly in Denver.Now this is happening in Portland.Coincidence? I do not think so.
by prostofen on Jan 18, 2012 2:15 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Bingo.
That’s the biggest factor with Ray. His shooting will come around. I would be fine with the occasional 8 turnover game if he were leading the league in assists. He’s not.
Also, no coincidence that LA is having his best year with a PG that teams are forced to cover beyond 20 feet.
by KevinRileyFTW on Jan 17, 2012 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
Tough to argue otherwise, both statistically and empirally
Since I’m guessing you’re the type to look at PPG first, take a look at EWA and shots.
Or, look at the NBA GM survey where other Gm’s have him ahead of Bosh, West, and Duncan.
by KevinRileyFTW on Jan 17, 2012 2:01 PM PST up reply actions
Oh, I donnow I mean I probably agree
He certainly is enjoying the pick and pop, and I don’t remember him and Miller doing that. I personally like to see LA in the low post with quick moves. I do think Raymond complements him and I believe they will find success together this season.
The tensions are so high because the stakes are so low!
For all this talk of "regressing to the mean"
LA certainly seems to be a guy due for it. Almost all of the increase in his FGA is coming from long twos, and he’s shooting an insane 50% on those, despite shooting 40% on those every year throughout his career which accounts for basically all of his scoring increase. I have a hard time imagining him keeping that up for the season, and even so, I’m not sure how much credit I’d give to Felton there, but who knows?
Without looking, I would say
his efg% from 10 feet and in is about where it was last year and considerably higher than his career efg% from 10 feet and in.
by KevinRileyFTW on Jan 17, 2012 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
You'd be wrong
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=LaMarcus%20Aldridge
The hazards of not checking the data first. His FG% from everywhere else on the floor is either roughly in line with his career %, or down compared to last year/the rest of his career.
You know what I looked at before?
Overall, his career average is .492 and this season he’s shooting…. .490
Despite the infinitesimal point you’re beating (nonetheless granted), the original point is that Felton is giving him more room and opportunity to score simply by being better on the pick and pop and launching a few 3’s per game.
by KevinRileyFTW on Jan 17, 2012 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure why my point is infinitesimal
If he were shooting his career average on 16-23 footers, he would currently have a 45% FG%. That’s pretty significant to me. And I certainly wouldn’t count his whopping improvement from 39% as a rookie to 41% on 16-23 footers last year as evidence that he was due for a large one year improvement there.
It's an atypical season. I guess
we’re just all going to hold hands have to get used to all of the outliers generated and a multitude of ways to mold them to make your point.
by KevinRileyFTW on Jan 17, 2012 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, Ray's terrible shooting from distance is a sample size fluke
that will no doubt correct itself with time, while LA’s amazing mid-range shooting is a bankable improvement going forward. Pretty manipulative to state that both will probably move towards their career averages instead of remaining at their current trajectory.
One more thing
While small, his fg% from 16-23 feet has improved every year.
by KevinRileyFTW on Jan 17, 2012 2:23 PM PST up reply actions
The current jump in long-two FG% is unsustainable, though.
Not quite Spencer Hawes level unsustainable, but comparable.
"I Am Mine"
I dunno
17 percentage points on an increased shot volume for Hawes seems pretty sustainable to me. Definitely borne out by his almost equally huge jumps in FG% at the rim and inside 10 feet.
Where's my sarcasm tag
when I need it? Just trying to make a joke about the absurdity of Hawes’ current efficiency levels.
I hope that Felton and LMA get the pick and ROLL play down.
Harder to pick apart by the opposing team than the lob…
This would require LMA to set a pick.
Doers & Makers > Movers & Shakers
by Adam Randall on Jan 17, 2012 7:53 PM PST up reply actions
they were pretty weak though
would be interesting to compare Amare and LMA regarding setting picks. Maybe part of why Ray is having a tough time adjusting.
Kurt Thomas is the only Blazer that sets a decent pick.
Another reason to bring back Przybilla.
If LMA will commit to his picks before he rolls, he could affect plays in a big way. Instead, he moves his feet early, giving the defense time to adjust. Just once, I’d like to see Aldridge floor a guard with a good clean pick. We don’t see that because he’s always slipping, showing, or popping.
That said, Felton’s not making it easy. I don’t think Ray knows what he’s doing until he’s halfway done, and his sub-Andre-Mller 3pt shooting isn’t making any space down low.
Doers & Makers > Movers & Shakers
by Adam Randall on Jan 17, 2012 10:00 PM PST up reply actions
It's not tough to argue otherwise
His pace is right where he left off last year. That is, it’s not an improvement over last year’s “end-of-season” LMA, it just isn’t averaging in “beginning-of-season” LMA from last year.
Despite the poor verbatim
I understand what you’re saying, and considerably disagree.
by KevinRileyFTW on Jan 17, 2012 2:08 PM PST up reply actions
It's also Aldridge's best year (so far) in PER
where he is ranked 5th among PFs and 19th in the league overall.
Not to mention according to media, team personnel, and players
He’s become the undisputed alpha dog both on and off the court.
Guy is one of maybe 10 players in the NBA making over 12M per year who are actually underpaid.
by KevinRileyFTW on Jan 17, 2012 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
LMA is scoring from distance
Ray hasn’t really been able to get LMA in good scoring position in the paint consistently. I’m still hoping they’ll perfect the pick and roll between them.
Started last night
First time this season that we saw multiple pick and rolls with Aldridge
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 17, 2012 5:07 PM PST up reply actions
yeah that totally made the game for me
I saw LMA roll to the rim over and over again. Felton missed it on more than a few occasions but a couple of times he had LMA plowing to the rim with the ball in his hands.
If they can get that down then Ray can dribble the ball off his foot all he wants…within reason.
totally agree.
I think it was Mike Rice who said that the P&R is harder to defend than the lob…and it is..I know the Blazers have had fits defending it when Phoenix did it with Nash/Stoudemier..
And other teams…Dallas..took the lob completely away in the play offs.
It's not just the bad ball handling, the PGs seem incapable of getting the team into a decent half court offense.
They don’t even appear to be running any plays half the time. It’s basically the PG going one on one and then turning the ball over or dishing to someone for a long jumper. There aren’t enough points in the paint, and even when someone gets close to the rim, the level of difficulty is usually so high, that they miss. We need someone who can actually get the ball to LMA deep in the post basically.
Stats in a vacuum
this is an oddball season: next to no training camp and very closely scheduled games. Felton is also on a new team in this condition as a starter. How have CP3 numbers changed so far this year to his usual numbers? I think you’ll find he’s also greatly under-producing. At the very least a comparison to other pg stats have changed this year is need to get a full understanding for how far Felton is sinking in realtion to his peers. Ignoring those factors is irresponsible reporting for the sake of stirring the pot.
Granted I see that Felton is clearly not as good as hoped but in many ways he also is exceeding some of my expectations (his ability to get inside and dish).
by NWfan on Jan 17, 2012 1:59 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
cp3's numbers:
per 36 minutes (2011 listed first, then 2012)
Pts: 15.8 – 17.4
Asts: 9.8 – 8.1
Rebs: 4.1 – 2.9
Tov: 2.2 – 2.1
PER: 23.7 – 24.8
In other words, still outstanding. He’s scoring a bit more and diming a bit less, but he’s scoring better than usual. Defenses have to cover more guys in LAC than they did with NOH, so CP3 is being a little more aggressive with his shot, while making a better percentage than in years past.
Not a great example for defending Felton’s poor performance.
by howlingfantods on Jan 17, 2012 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
short season, no training camp are just excuses
CP3 fit right in and there no reason Ray cant except he already maxing out what hes capable of. Look at his stats, he 2 points and 1 reb below his career avrgs. He doesnt have that much more to give us.
by cavejunctionblazer on Jan 17, 2012 2:25 PM PST up reply actions
In other words,
Felton can never get any better, he has no chance of improving over the season compared with the first 12 games, and his teammates can’t raise their shooting percentage to increase his assists or be in the right place to receive his passes.
I’m glad Felton’s attitude was described as defiant; thanks for the criticism but I’ll keep playing and maybe you’ll be surprised when the stats improve.
his FG% might improve
but I dont expect his scoring, rebs or ast to go up any higher than they already are
by cavejunctionblazer on Jan 17, 2012 2:48 PM PST up reply actions
it would be alright if his FG% went up and he stopped turning the ball over so much
I don’t mind if Ray isn’t CP3…or even Dre. Just needs to do his job respectably well and we’re good.
I think he had more rebounds in the first half of a recent game...
don’t recall which one but he did.
Pace important too
Along with the steady dimes, his pace has been absolutely necessary to set the tone for the offense and get them to push up court. That is the one thing Andre simply could not or would not do (beyond making 3s). More TOs are a byproduct of that, although Ray is makin way more than can be accounted for by that.
He can return closer to shooting form. He can relax and cut down his TOs. But what they really need from him—tempo—he’s doing very well, and the last guy could not. I’ll be patient.
I only take my petz to Bunfeeld Pet Oz-pitzal!
by torridjoe on Jan 17, 2012 2:00 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Dre played for fast Denver teams in the past and is pushing the ball very effectively in Denver again.
Pace is a coaching decision, not a PGs decision.
by howlingfantods on Jan 17, 2012 2:17 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
"Pace is a coaching decision, not a PGs decision."
This, this, and this 100x over. Terry Porter v. Steve Nash is a prime example.
"I Am Mine"
I was never happy with him
I think we need(ed) someone to mentor Smith and his style so that he can take over Raymond is just a patch in my opinion
by Canthus90 on Jan 17, 2012 2:00 PM PST via Android app reply actions
I'm not sure Nolan Smith
has the ability to stick in this league, but it’s still early.
by KevinRileyFTW on Jan 17, 2012 2:02 PM PST up reply actions
I have zero stats to back this up - Dre was and is better than Felton
that may change…dunno
wake me in 2012
Dre is smarter...it seems..
This is a freak season..too many games in too short a time span; especially for a marginally fit player on a new team.
that's it...he is smarter
He knew he wasn’t a good 3 pt. shooter, so very rarely took them.
When the team couldn’t get it going, he took over and PASSED to the wide open man or drove to the basket for the layup. There were several games last year he alone took over the game and got the team on the right track.
To part with his talent over age was a sorry excuse. IMO
wake me in 2012
If Ray cant play with a core of guys like we have and be a good pg
than what good is he too us? I mean we have some major options for him to pass to. Also his drives are rarely smooth looking. His shots selection has been shabby. Hes had maybe 1 or 2 good games all season. 2.41 ast/to ratio. His play making skills seem to be average at best. What a slumper. I hate to keep harping the past but Dre woulda been on fire with these guys, after already playing a couple of seasons together, Dre had learned Nates system and the way his teammates played. Its no coincidence that LMAs #’s around the rim and paint with all the dunks from lobs were his best ever! Now he is shooting more and missing more. Everyone is. Dre was a great pg for us and our style of play. We shoulda kept Dre and held out for a better pg to trade him for. IMO DREs playmaking ability made LMA an All Star.
by cavejunctionblazer on Jan 17, 2012 2:21 PM PST reply actions
Wonder if we can trade him back to NY where he thrived the most?
Do they have anything we want?
by cavejunctionblazer on Jan 17, 2012 2:23 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think Felton drinks or does blow off strippers' navels
Could be wrong the on latter, of course.
by KevinRileyFTW on Jan 17, 2012 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
Generally speaking, cocaine and weight gain don't mix.
So if you’re going to play the “Cupcake” card, then I think you can’t play the “strippers and blow” card at the same time.
And now that I wrote this, I’m just waiting for somebody to bring up Shawn Kemp.
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice they're not.
by conspirator5 on Jan 17, 2012 3:00 PM PST up reply actions
Vin Baker's vice wasn't cocaine. That was Shawn Kemp.
Alcohol, however, was Baker’s unraveling. Booze did him in.
"I Am Mine"
Perhaps it's powdered sugar off strippers' navels instead?
I can see that becoming an issue.
The cake was a lie.
by xedubx on Jan 17, 2012 3:24 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
His rise to power will remind you of Sleepy Floyd from 27 years ago
if we lock him down for a few seasons
The tensions are so high because the stakes are so low!
hmm, still feels like flukey sample size problem to me.
Most of the performance decline is purely his shooting accuracy from long range—his shooting % from 15 feet and closer has been pretty much the same as his career numbers.
his long range accuracy has fallen off a cliff, though. And he’s been dependable his entire career at 35-40% for long 2s and 30-35% on 3s until this season. Long range shooting is not a skill that players normally lose dramatically, but something that declines slowly over years.
his other numbers — tov, asts, rebs — are all in line with his career numbers.
by howlingfantods on Jan 17, 2012 2:40 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I assume the poor 3PT shooting is a small sample size issue.
The turnovers are troubling, though, as is the weight gain. It’s the weight gain that makes me think of Vin Baker, too.
"I Am Mine"
I'm not understanding the contention that his TOV is up dramatically.
He’s averaging 3.1 per 36 this season. His career numbers are 2.7 per 36, so it’s up, but not dramatically.
Also worth considering is that he didn’t always play lead guard. He averaged around 2.5 tov per 36 in his years with Charlotte, but he used to play at least part of his time off the ball every season but one (he platooned as the bigger guard with Brevin Knight then with DJ Augustin). He also played off the ball a fair bit with Ty Lawson in Denver, where he averaged 2.4 TOV.
His only experience as the 100% PG was with Charlotte in 07-08 (2.6 tov per 36) and the NYK pre-allstar last year (3.1 tov per 36).
In other words, 3.1 is a bit high but not a big jump over his career 2.7, and you’d have expected slightly higher than 2.7 anyways since Ray’s playing lead guard exclusively and not spending significant chunks of time off the ball.
by howlingfantods on Jan 17, 2012 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
That's why the turnovers are troubling.
Since it’s not a small sample size issue, that’s not going away and is here to stay.
"I Am Mine"
oh. well, I dunno, his TOVs are sometimes hilariously ugly,
but the numbers are only a little worse than average for lead guards in the league. In any case, I think it’s clearly not a case of evidence of sudden physical decline; I think he’s just a little prone to mistakes, and always has been.
by howlingfantods on Jan 17, 2012 4:22 PM PST up reply actions
I think some of the worry is exacerbated by his last game
Ray is capable of some pretty funny looking turnovers and when you stack 8 of them together in a game where JJ is on the other side of the match-up it makes it look even worse.
I know for myself the 4th quarter turn overs were the ones that made me want to break something. Getting vandalized by CP3 and co two possessions in a row. Dribbling the ball off his leg. Passing the ball to guys’ feet or knees consistently.
Not just that he’s turning the ball over but also that he looks incompetent while doing it I guess.
This is the worst stretch of point guard play I've seen from a Blazers PG
I don’t know what’s going on with Felton, but he has been terrible across the board. He appears over-matched every game.
It’s one thing to go through a shooting slump, but he’s also making dumb plays at inopportune times, turning the ball over at a high rate, and getting lit up by opposing point guards.
The sample size isn’t that small, really. We’re already about 20 percent of the way through the season.
Knick fan here
Knicks were 3-8 last year and we were all calling for his head. Then suddenly there was a big winning streak and he was awesome. I think Ray will come around for you guys. He’s a good point guard who’s very very good when his shots are dropping, which is a little intermittent.
Right now, we’d absolutely love to have him back. He’s a shade below the top guys but for us, he was in command out there which gave us something we are missing really badly right now. In fact, replace Carmelo or Amar’e with Felton right now, and I think the Knicks would be winning more.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
by fuhry on Jan 17, 2012 2:49 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
This goes right back to the sample size criticism.
If we’re having this same conversation 10 games from now, I think we’re far enough into the season that it’s not just fan bellyaching at that point.
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice they're not.
by conspirator5 on Jan 17, 2012 3:06 PM PST up reply actions
Man our city is brutal on new players
Has he been great no, but wasn’t it just a few games ago that we all said he easily out played CP3 in portland? He has shown that he has the talent, bu thes struggling a bit in a brand new team with no real training camp. I can live with that for now. Unless we start losing to the point that we are like the kings, then i’ll give it time to develop. He won’t stay at being that horrible of a shooter. You don’t go your whole career shooting a certain % then all of a sudden disappear. I’m sure though he would love it if we showed a bit more support, instead of already pronouncing him a loser after 12 games.
Reminds me how we all chanted Wallaces name at the beginning of the season, and now people are saying Batum needs to start over him. We contantly flip flop so much its a joke. I also remember when we first signed Dre, and all i heard on all the websites and talk shows was “dre can’t play with roy, this was a bad pick up”… now everyones wishing he was back.
Most cities would be in this case
Ray’s putting up some very awful stat lines. Players usually get yanked before they hit 8 turnovers.
If he picks his level of play up then people will change their minds again. This is sports. Assumed potential doesn’t get a veteran player much slack.
Ray’s been just horrible. In all likelihood he’ll pick it up to the point where he’s merely a below average starting PG. Yay.
below average starting PG is what he's been his whole career
so it’s hard to kill him for that. The problem has been all the magical thinking with this fanbase thinking that a below average starting PG will suddenly become something he’s not just by putting on our laundry.
by howlingfantods on Jan 17, 2012 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
people didn't think that because he put on a Blazer jersey
they thought it because he had a great year last year
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
15, 8 and 4 per 36 minutes on 43% shooting, PER of 16.6 is a "great" year?
It was pretty average for starting PGs last season (16th in PER for PGs playing over 20 mpg according to Hollinger).
by howlingfantods on Jan 17, 2012 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
fine
“good” year then. Much better than what he is currently showing. If he was producing here like he produced last year in NY, then yes, it would be a G-R-E-A-T fit and boost to our team
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
... I really can't figure out what you're trying to say.
I say that the only problem was inflated expectations over his career performance. You say you didn’t have inflated expectations because he truly was great last season. I point out that he wasn’t “great” but only “average”. You concede that he was only average, and that “average” would be “great for our team.”
So you apparently don’t fit the population of people who I say had unrealistic expectations of him, since all you wanted was 15 and 8 on 43% shooting. Ok, so why bother contradicting my point that he was average in the first place?
by howlingfantods on Jan 17, 2012 4:37 PM PST up reply actions
because the point I was making is not that we had pie in the sky expectations based on the nature of the jersey he was wearing
but that he has trended upward in recent years reaching a pinnacle last season, that the player he was last season would be great for us, and that thinking he may be for us what he was most recently is not a flawed thought process.
That’s all. He’s been bad this year, I’m hoping he can get to average/good, and I don’t think there was much consequence to the trade either way. You may contend he’s never been “good” relative to other PGs, but I believe it is possible for more than half of all PGs to be playing well and it is not just based on being above the median.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I would be fine with below average starting PG
If Ray could consistently look like any kind of starting PG this discussion wouldn’t be happening at this scale.
Felton was a #4 pick - hard to believe, right now
But that has something to do with the expectations…
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 17, 2012 5:11 PM PST up reply actions
5th...not 4th?
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 17, 2012 5:13 PM PST up reply actions
really? draft order is pretty poor evidence when you've got six years of a career to evaluate.
do you still have high expectations of kwame or darko?
by howlingfantods on Jan 17, 2012 5:29 PM PST up reply actions
Hell, I have no expectations for Wes Johnson.
"I Am Mine"
by AK1984 on Jan 17, 2012 6:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
woof, yeah, he is just awful.
I do think he’s being played out of position, but he still shouldn’t suck that bad playing sg instead of sf.
by howlingfantods on Jan 17, 2012 6:10 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, really
Draft position will influence unreasonable expectations. Is that really that difficult to understand?
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 17, 2012 6:39 PM PST up reply actions
On the other hand, this reply does invoke a "traveling" definition
Trying to run with a comment without giving it much thought…
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 17, 2012 6:48 PM PST up reply actions
yes, it's difficult to understand when a guy's been in the league long enough
for most fans to completely disregard his draft position.
I can understand it when it’s Jonny Flynn and he’s only played for one terrible coach for a year or two, but not when it’s Raymond Felton and he’s been in the league six years and have played for, what, 4 coaches?
by howlingfantods on Jan 17, 2012 7:05 PM PST up reply actions
I was with you right up until you wrote "Jonny Flynn"
That kid is a total NBA disaster and just seeing his name in print induces my gag reflex.
Fans are apparently subject to the same hope that GM's must feel
I for one, hoped that Felton could hit a pull up J off pick and rolls if (when) the defense slid to cover the roll…
Frankly, I didn’t know anything about Felton other than his statistics – but I’m not sure if the mid-range jumper was ever a strong suit, considering it took him several seasons to build any kind of respectable shooting percentage.
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Jan 17, 2012 8:21 PM PST up reply actions
No long term answer
Felton has a little of the Bayless reclessness to his game for sure; that and getting into the paint and not finishing….drives you nuts.
Paul Allen wants a premire PG for his team. Always has. KP failed him in this pursuit….and so far Buchannan has too. NExt year all the guys the Blazers missed on in the draft are coming back around. You can bet Uncle Paul wants it to happen and the roster is positioned to make a run at a big time PG in the offseason with cap space.
Crawford will be fine and be up to his averages as the season gets along.
which guys that are going to be FA's do you really expect to come to portland?
and we aren’t goin to have much cap space once we pay L.A., mathews, batum, and wallace (assuming we keep them all)
I'm a little confused here
we’ve already “paid” LA and Matthews, at least through the next few years, and unless we really overpay GW, he’s probably going to be looking at a cap hit of roughly his player option anyways, which was factored into our cap space. Even with that, we can afford to give Nic a raise, albeit not a giant one, and still have a fair amount of cap space in the summer.
Of course, that’s assuming we let Oden, Felton, Crawford and Camby walk, and you also have to take into account the fact that there are no decent free agent PGs outside of Deron on the market this summer. Outside of blowing the rest of the roster up and going for a trade with a salary dump, it still looks like crossing our fingers and hoping for Felton is our best bet at this point.
Trade chips too
If they pay more than 6 mil per year to Batum, they are foolish. Wallce will opt out for sure, as will Jamal. Blazers can talk trades at the deadline with Wallace or Batum or Camby.
My point is they have tons of flexibility to get after a PG by traidng at deadline this year, or in the offseaon when all thier player/team options come up and other contracts come off the books..you got UR Free agents, some Restricted guys and some trade bait.
I just wonder who the visionary was who
talked PA into the Dre/Felton deal.
And my best guess is Nate,
Nate...ugh.
though really think Felton may get better as he gets into better shape. I think his conditioning this year was awful.
Miler flunked the fitness test his first year here…they didn’t even have one this year did they?
Not sure what everyone is expecting us to do?
There aren’t enough all star PG’s out there for every team. Felton is probably the type of level of PG we are going to be able to entice to come to portland. Small market teams like us need to use the draft wisely to get franchise players, and unfortunately that is something we haven’t done.
The problem isn't that we don't have Chris Paul
However, we just experienced a big downgrade from last year, and we made a trade to accomplish it.
I wasn’t a big fan of Dre for this team, but we clearly have a worse player at the position in his place. That’s the problem.
We should bring in more scrub big men; they make good curse fodder.
through 13 games
that’s a really really important caviat.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
We've drafted fairly well
The only problem is that their knees don’t work.
“Small market teams like us need to use the draft wisely to get franchise players, and unfortunately that is something we haven’t done.”
by IntergalacticP on Jan 17, 2012 3:47 PM PST up reply actions
I completely disagree
In the past 5 years, we’ve had five “good” picks, in the most charitable definition: Aldridge, Roy, Oden, Batum, and Rudy. Oden, being the number one pick, shouldn’t really count, and Rudy is a stretch at this point. Counting injuries, exactly two of those guys have logged minutes for us this season.
In that same time period we’ve also picked Freeland (maybe next year), Sergio (gone for a 2nd rounder, out of the NBA), PetKo (no plans to come over), Bayless (gone for a nothing pick), Claver (no plans to come to the NBA soon), EWill (17 minutes of NBA court time), and Nolan (early, but can’t crack the rotation). And those are just the first rounders. Having that many complete whiffs isn’t compatible with “drafting well” to me, especially when you consider our constant purchasing of picks.
by Royster on Jan 17, 2012 4:00 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
yup
we need more Batums and less Babbitts
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Man, can't believe I left Babbitt off
just makes the 2nd list all the more pathetic.
5 reasonable picks
…in 5 years seems pretty good to me. How many other franchises have done better (weighted for draft position)?
Well, the weighting for draft position is really it
Sure, we’ve had 5 decent picks, being charitable as I said, but in those 5 years we also bought 5 extra 1st rounders by my count (Nic, Rudy, Freeland, Sergio, and PetKo) and acquired a sixth extra through trade (Babbitt). That’s a huge volume, and when you take into account that three of those “reasonable picks” were top 10 picks and we have essentially nothing to show for the every pick other than those 5 (no contributors and none were part of any significant acquisitions), I think it’s pretty bad.
Trying to weight for draft position, I’d say the most impressive recent stretches would be the Sixers going up to now and the Celtics in the middle of the 2000s. Leading up to the KG trade, the Celtics had acquired all of Rondo, Powe, Delonte West, Gerald Green, Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, and Kendrick Perkins in recent drafts, despite not drafting higher than 15th (Jefferson) in that stretch. All of those guys were either key rotation pieces on the 2008 title team or components in the KG/Allen trades.
The current Sixers team, on the other hand, has four major rotation pieces (Holliday, Turner, Young, Vucevic) as draftees of the past five years (when they only drafted in the top 10 once), and two more major contributors from the 2005 draft (Iggy and Lou Williams), another draft that we currently have nothing to show from, coincidentally.
I’m too lazy to look through every team’s performance, but just superficially, we’ve had a lot of high picks, and a lot of picks overall in the past 5-6 years, and almost nothing to show for it right now.
How did we get here ? Que the song by Shannon- Let the music play.
A guard giddy owner, and a coach that will not play rookie pgs for starters.
You cant expect a new pg to be perfect on a new team right out of the gate, with no preseason on top of it.
Fast forward to 2012- we actually have 2 solid pgs and 2 solid sgs for the first time in YEARS. Nate still wont play a rookie , even from Duke. Tired legs = weaker D, and lower shot % for cupcake.
Welcome to Blazer basketball. It will get better, as long as LA doesnt collapse on the court waiting for a legit backup from the owner.
just win baby !
Nash would look so good on this team.
:D
by Bicycle Rider on Jan 17, 2012 3:02 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Yes he would.
Doers & Makers > Movers & Shakers
by Adam Randall on Jan 17, 2012 10:18 PM PST up reply actions
My only issue is the turnovers, everything else seems to be within his norm.
I remember Blake losing his shooting touch for quite a while too.
okay, who here would take Blake back in Feltons place?
and after watching Hornets, who would take Jack?
Just curious
I want Patty as far away from the Blazers as possible.
by jksnake99 on Jan 17, 2012 3:34 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not a Patty fan
but I’d take him back to play PG off the bench and let Jamal do what Jamal does.
I'm with that actually
I don’t think Jamal has any business being a PG. Patty wasn’t great, obviously, but he could do the job without completely screwing up (most of the time)
yeah I doubt he does as much damage as Jamal
and he fits right in with up tempo. We need some guy to distribute the ball when the bench comes in. Pass it to Jamal when you want an iso.
Or, alternatively, the Blazers could play the high floor, low ceiling 4 year Duke man— you know, the opposite of a project (the type of guy it only makes any sense to draft if you plan to play him immediately.
by jksnake99 on Jan 17, 2012 3:43 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
wouldn't mind seeing more time for Nolan
He would have to figure things out quickly though. It’s going to be a weird season for getting rookie point guards settled in.
yeah. I thought we picked this guy because nate mcmillan wanted him
so why doesn’t nate play him a bit
true, Nate just doesn't play the guy
He doesn’t look great now but he doesn’t look like trash either and in ll likelihood if you gave him the minutes he’d be high above Patty.
If he’s just gonna sit the year we shoulda taken Faried! at least that guy’s big
I agree here with playing Nolan more
but I do think the “high floor, low ceiling” thing gets overplayed a bit. Seems to be the stereotypical way to describe any guy who played 3-4 years, but there are tons of high floor guys who turned out to be abject failures (Acie Law is the biggest, but also Cole Aldrich, Gerald Henderson, Corey Brewer, and Shelden WIlliams in recent drafts).
Very possible. Someone screwed up/is screwing up regarding Nolan, but I’m quite open to the idea that its PA/Miller/Buchanan rather than Nate.
Well, unless he just looks insanely bad at practice
It seems pretty absurd to me that he shouldn’t be playing at all, especially when our other PG option off the bench is Crawford. I’d expect him to be a competent PG at the very least (hence the high floor perception), but just saying that I think we kind of forget that these guys do sometimes turn out to be terrible NBA players in spite of any supposed floors.
Gerald Henderson is an abject failure?
he’s averaging almost 15 ppg this season
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
TS below 50%
and WS/48 at .015 still says abject failure to me. Also a A/TO ratio of <1.
fair enough
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Is Nolan better than Jamal at the point though?
At this point? Wesley isn’t getting too many minutes and neither is Nic, so there aren’t enough minutes for Nolan to get on the floor unless he runs a more tidy point than Jamal. They actually kind of approach it the same uni-directional way IMO, but it’s obviously VERY early in Nolan’s career.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jan 18, 2012 1:58 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
No to Blake without hesitation
No to Jack based on principle
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
A funny thing is that the league as a whole is going through an absolute point guard renaissance,
and the team with the fanbase and management that’s been so completely obsessed with point guards hasn’t been able to secure any of them.
Deron freaking Williams is now 23rd in PER. Tony Parker is 11th. These are the guys who consistently got second and third all NBA’s until last season.
DerWill’s PER is artificially low from playing with all those scrubs, but I honestly would rank even Utah era DerWill and current Tony Parker no higher than 9th or 10th. So these guys are approaching average starting PG levels compared to their peers, and so guys who were average starters like Ray Felton, even if he bounces back to his normal numbers, are below average in today’s NBA.
by howlingfantods on Jan 17, 2012 4:05 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure I'd go that far
By the raw PER alone, Utah era Deron would slot nicely into 9th place, but that would also be behind Lou Williams (extremely likely to regress toward his career numbers), Kyrie Irving (using a ton of possessions), and Kyle Lowry (I’m a big fan, but still pretty small sample). If we’re slotting Utah era Deron into this year’s class of PGs, probably somewhere 4th-6th makes sense, clearly behind CP3 and Rose, and somewhere in with the Westbrook, Nash, Lawson, and even Lowry tier.
I always thought Deron wasn't as good as his PER,
and that his numbers were inflated from the nonstop pick and rolls that were the basis of Sloan’s offense. Great offense for inflating PG and PF stats.
I don’t go strictly by PER, although I do think it’s a pretty decent synthesis of the stats that conventional wisdom guys like. I’d definitely take CP3, DRose, Lawson, Nash, Lowry, Rondo, Rubio. And maybe Westbrook, Curry, and Kyrie Irving before I took Jazz era Deron.
by howlingfantods on Jan 17, 2012 4:32 PM PST up reply actions
I'd want Rondo and Rubio three years from now
but I’d take Deron over them for this season and next. More or less the same with Curry and Irving. Those Jazz teams did regularly take down some pretty decent Rockets teams in the playoffs, so I don’t think it was a complete mirage, and he was pretty respectable on team USA, even if he wasn’t spectacular.
Plenty of room for disagreement, though. It is absolutely insane how deep the PG crop in the current NBA is, especially considering the sudden dearth of young SGs after the previous bumper years of Kobe, T-Mac, Rip, Ray Allen, Manu, Joe Johnson, and Wafe from the middle of the 2000s.
yeah fair enough.
I’ve just always been more impressed with Deron as a scorer than a playmaker, and I tend to be biased towards playmaking point guards. I feel like a point guard who improves his teammates is worth more than their numbers, and I never felt like Deron did.
by howlingfantods on Jan 17, 2012 7:10 PM PST up reply actions
Why stop there with Jack ?
why not Dre, Blake, Patty, Rex, Chacho or either Blake jr 1 or 2 ? Felton is just next on the ridiculous list of new pgs brought in every year expected to produce instantly. If it were only that easy. The Blazers would have made it past the first round when Pryz was still able to play.
just win baby !
umm...probably NATE.
Someone at work brought up Blake…and I just about vomitted. Nothing against Blake as a person but I was so happy to see the last of him.
If he was back and Nate was able to use him like a NORMAL coach would..fine. But Nate wouldn’t. Nate would probably start him over Nash…Nash has too many turnovers…
Such drama.
Suppose everything were the same about Felton’s season but he’d hit a game winner against Orlando or Houston, putting us at 9-4 instead of 8-5 and the 3-game skid never taking place. Every one of his shortcomings discussed in this forum would still be afflicting the team, but would we be talking about them as though the survival of the human race depended on Raymond Felton getting his numbers up? Probably not.
We had a very strong start to the season. Fans and writers alike were giving the team the attention it deserved and then we abruptly lost 3 straight. It was ugly, but it doesn’t mean our chances for a solid or even special playoff run are out the window. The heat lost 3 in a row too this week but I think most critics still consider them the favorites to win the NBA title this year.
I believe Felton will eventually slide into more of a comfort zone and be more of a factor in our WINS, not just losses. The guy is talented on both ends of the floor and no matter what anyone says, runs a fast-paced offense better than Andre Miller. He gives Russell Westbrook fits too (as opposed to Andre), something which may important come playoff time.
Felton will get better, but Crawford shouldn't be running the point.
Andre Miller had a rough start as a Blazer as well. Felton is likely to improve, I hope. Crawford on the other hand is a SG. He will never be a reliable PG, and the fact that he is playing PG is distracting him from the one thing he is supposed to be doing – and that is knocking down shots. There needs to be a true back up PG on the team. If the team doesn’t think that Nolan Smith can be that backup PG, then why did they draft him? I can’t help but think that if we had drafted Faried instead of Nolan Smith, we could be using Faried in the Craig Smith role, and used the extra spot on a veteran PG. At this point may be jettisoning Armon Johnson and bringing back Patty Mills would be an improvement on having Crawford playing the point.
Andre's problem as a Blazer was all Nate driven.
Had to come off the bench with Blake as the starter. Had to watch the Blazers lose in the 4th quarter when he probably knew he could have prevented this…it wasn’t what Miller did. It was what he wasn’t allowed to do when he was first on the team.
By chance...
…happened to be listening to the beatles’ Get Back while reading this thread. let’s hope chance restores felton’s numbers and efficiency in short order. i’ll give him benefit of the doubt as he’s still trying to fit into a new system, has faced pretty good competition so far, and clearly came into camp overweight. honeymoon’s over, though…. dude needs to really get fit and focused. no more sloppy TOs
which is to say, let's hope he gets back to where he once belonged
like sweet loretta
by Sonic Phantom on Jan 17, 2012 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
not one of the better beatles songs...but still listen-able.
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
always been one of my faves
certainly not as underrated as dear prudence—which i’d say is their best overall song—but underappreciated nonetheless
by Sonic Phantom on Jan 17, 2012 4:16 PM PST up reply actions
The white album is great, I like most of the songs on that album.....
but my absolute fav is Abbey Road. I love every song.
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
I think I'll start worrying about game 25....
then I’ll be in panic mode.
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
by jenstcy on Jan 17, 2012 4:10 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
two4larue has said many times that if Patty Mills in the answer he doesnt want to know the question
well sorry 24, the question right now is who is available right now who could slot into the team and improve on what we have currently, that would not cost much more than a roster spot and could pick up the system quickly.
A: Patty Mills
Get it done.
with the added bonus of getting better ball out of Batum
we actually do need to make this move sooner rather than later, word on the street is that the Spurs are looking at adding him for coverage of TJ Ford and to an extent Parker.
Makes sense to, their assistance Coach Brett Brown is the Australian National Team coach, he would know better than anybody what Patty would bring, with the added bonus on being able to work closely with him in the lead up to London
I wouldn't mind Patty coming back to PDX....do NOT want to see him as a SPUR.
Batum and he are good friends and that would increase the likelihood that Batum would want to join the Spurs.
That is all the Blazers would need.
I want the assistant coach from the Spurs to come to PDX…Mike Budenholzer.
Let’s trade Nate for him.
See how Felton and Batum and the rest do with him as head coach.
I've just given up on having a great PG in Portland...
a great PG to Portland is like a Unicorn to Earth. It’s mythical.
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
we had a great point guard here
for the last 3 years. we got rid of him because we overvalue flashy jump shooting and undervalue disciplined team play.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
now we're going to romanticize Andre Miller like he's the greatest thing since sliced bread?
If he was still here we’d be complaining about him too. Felton may not be the answer, but neither is/was Dre.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jan 17, 2012 6:03 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
maybe you'd be complaining about him.
I was touting him the whole time he was here.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
He was great for getting the ball to our wings and bigs in a position to score.
in the short period of time when Brandon Roy was out and Gerald Wallace was on the team, we looked dangerous. It was hasty to get rid of Miller, and I said it then. Residual attitude from the BRoy era spelled the end of Miller’s career here, not his play on the court.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
Maybe we should just do what we always do with the center position
Play a forward instead…
Hawks fans griped about him running point for the last couple of years
He’s really not a good option at the 1.
which is why I'd like to see Patty Mills as the back up point guard.
Free up Crawford to play shooting guard.
I'm not a big Felton guy, but in no way do I think he's as bad as he's playing.
If things don’t improve though Portland will continue the perpetual quest of finding the PG of the future.
Its been so damn brutal.
I hope it gets better. But if him & Crawford don’t make significant strides by the deadline I’ll be done with that experiment. Give me Kirk Hinrich !
Paul Allen, the 2011 Trail Blazers Owner/GM
LOL it's (probably) funny to see that Title
but it’s (Definitely) true. Poor Raymond is in the worst slump of his career. Be nice to him folks, he’s a good guy.
Love how everyone now really likes DRE….
can we go back a year ago or two and look at some of these comments and see how you all cried about how DRE ruined the offense, and how Blake would be better… and how dre cant shoot… etc etc etc…
I mean its silly, suddenly everyone wants DRE back, but dont worry youll all want Felton back when hes gone and the new point guard is…. ___________ enter whatever complaint you wish
I’m not sure how anyone can be faulted for criticizing Ray’s play so far. If he plays well it will all even out. If there are more games where we’re looking at a near double double in missed shots and turn overs then expect more threads like this.
I didnt say anything about people shouldnt criticize felton, I said I love how everyone hated on Dre and now they all want Dre back, and I think the same will be said about felton…
Felton should be better, but for whatever reason he is not. He will either get better and will continue to be our PG or he wont and he will be fired…. pretty simple…
Just think its funny everyone is praising DRE… I mean look at the archives over the last two years, people felt exactly the same about Dre as they do about Felton right now
yeah Dre lacked the ability to spread the defense. Ray is supposed to have that ability but so far is worse than Dre.
At this point Felton lacks the good Andre provided along with most of the good that Felton is supposed to provide besides pace and maybe some pick and roll.
This pretty much ends up with Dre fans and many Dre haters agreeing somewhat. The universe should implode now.
Dre did a lot to win people over. I hope Ray can do the same.
Where are the Nate defenders? - response to numerous anti-Nate posts
I’d take Nate over 90% of the coaches in the league. He’s gotten more outta less here than anyone could have expected. Franchise player retired at 26, #1 overall pick broken 4 out of 5 yrs, 2 1/2 GM’s in 3 yrs, plus countless other injury issues and he still has averaged 50+ wins the last 3 yrs….AND WE LIVE IN PORTLAND WITH THE CRAZIEST OWNER IN THE NBA!!! Sorry fellow Portlanders this is Siberia in the NBA, and we have crazy Ivan running the place. Who is begging to come here and deal with the that nuitcake and his Vulcan lackeys? And this year, even with his PG cooking turnovers and building brick houses the Blazers are still 8-5. If you’d said before the season the Blazers would be 8-5 with Craw and Felt hitting dirt every time they fell out of a boat I would have taken it. This wasnt a great team before the season, so why is it Nates fault it isnt a great team now? BLAZER FANS FOR NATE UNITE
agree completly
Nate is a great coach. Cant blame him for felton missing wide open shots and missing at the rim. Ray ray will return to his average self, and that’s exactly what this team needs.
Crazy Ivan?
IDGI.
Who is crazy Ivan?
Why are hypothetical crazy people always named after Russian Czars or villains in Rocky movies?
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jan 17, 2012 11:55 PM PST up reply actions
Actually Crazy Ivan
comes from Red October having to do with a sub maneuver. Their we’re a couple of Czars Ivan the Terrible and Ivan the Great.
Hey, Ben
I guess people are just used to your excellent reporting. This is a really nice piece of work documenting what a lot of us are feeling in an ‘objective’ analtical way. It is a lot more work, and more persuasive, to do it that way. Your credibility continues. :-)
I noticed there were no ’rec’s when I added one. I presume you are used to that.
But, anyway:
REC
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