Nic as 8th Man?
Recently, Nate (in all his glorious wisdom) has decided that Nic is our 8th man, and thus worthy of less than 20 mins a game.
This has to be really frustrating for our favorite Frenchman after his breakout tour in the French League. Unfortunately for Blazer fans and Nic, his 8th man status is unlikely to change unless this roster is really reconfigured. Assuming the team resigns its current players and signs Joel Freeland Nic will be the 8th man for the foreseeable future
Starters:
Felton
Matthews
Wallace
Aldridge
Camby/Oden/Freeland
Reserves (in likely order of appearance):
Crawford
Freeland
BATUM
etc.
Recent RealGM article exposes a potential rift between the team and Batum (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/218208/Batum_Playing_Time_Most_Important_In_Determining_Whether_To_Sign_Extension).
Even if the team misses on Felton or Oden, it is still likely that Batum will be behind Wallace & Matthews. Removing Crawford from the mix does open more minutes at the wing, so does the question become do you resign Crawford or Batum? (For the sake of this discussion I presume Wallace is a keeper as the #2 player on the team)
What is really frustrating about this is that if Nate had even an ounce of foresight and actually cared about developing talent he would have committed to playing Batum no less than 24 or so minutes a night.
How hard would it be to commit to the kid especially in a contract year? Even if they lost a game or two, wouldn't that be worth it to develop Batum's skills and confidence?
This team, and Nate specifically, has really screwed around with Batum so far.
-He lost his starting spot to Outlaw against the Lakers with horrible results(once again, Nate's supreme wisdom)
-He got fewer minutes than Travis Outlaw...let me repeat....our coach decided that Travis Outlaw was a better player than Batum and worthy of more burn..."Nate's a great coach".
-Nic was told to not even worry about playing offense..."he's the fifth option"...
-They didn't run plays for him...and heck, most of the time they still don't
I wouldn't blame him one bit if he looks elsewhere to play. The team has no one to blame but themselves...but mostly Nate.
Either commit to the kid or move the heck on.
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The reality is
that Batum is not an effective offensive player on his own. Mathews and Crawford have the ability to create and therefore are more of an asset when scoring is needed. Batums defense is awesome, but he is still a limited offensive player.
I don't get the bashing of Nate, here.
Wallace has outplayed Batum since he got here last year, so as far as the starting spot goes, I believe Nate has made the right call.
In terms of bench use, I like the idea of Nic being first or second off the bench, spelling Wallace, Aldridge (moving Wallace to the 4) or Matthews, which is what will be the case most of the time. Matthews and Wallace hace been playing pretty well, so Nate is justifiable in going with his hot hands.
The problem with laying blame on Nate (or anyone – really) is that the team is playing well, and WINNING. Batum is still a veritable pup, and a skinny one at that. He will either play/work his way into more minutes, or he won’t. I don’t think that Nate needs to make lineup changes based on paranoia that a player may become unhappy and bolt. Nic will get his, as the season wears on. We only have a small sample to look at right now.
Nate is a very good, if not great coach.
by The Penguin on Jan 11, 2012 12:32 PM PST reply actions 8 recs
the issue
is that this shouldn’t be an issue. I don’t disagree that Wallace or Crawford or Matthews are playing well and deserve time, the issue is that the team has done a poor job of investing in Nic’s growth as a player.
Rarely do young players develop without real playing time.
As for winning…they are winning regular season games and while it is enjoyable the team’s performance today is a far cry from actually “Winning” anything. The team they have now may be able to win…but it never hurts to develop talent so that you can “win” tomorrow…thus the comment about foresight.
by ripcitymilehigh on Jan 11, 2012 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
I see your point, but...
… I think that Batum has enjoyed a TON of development. he’s only 23 years old, remember, and has gotten a lot of NBA playing time for a kid that age, drafted in the late 1st round. That he’s not seen as much through nine games is a little unusual, but not yet, in my opinion, alarming.
True..
…I think the perception is thrown off by the fact that Nic was rushed into being a starter as a rookie and was expected to be a starter going forward.
The reality is that we’ve improved at his position by getting a borderline All Star to play SF.
I’d like to see Nic get a few more minutes too but after 9 games at 23 minutes per game I’m not nearly as worried about it as some appear to be. After the upcoming 6 game road trip things may look much, much different.
#7... GO BLAZERS!!!
Of course the Predator is outperforming Nic, but I think it's a valid argument to get Nic more playing time
like the other posting says… Find at least 3 more minutes per game for Batum. He can even play some shooting guard minutes.
I jut think that Nate should run more lineups with Batum at the 2 guard position.
Felton – Batum – Wallace – LMA – Camby/Thomas
The smarter you are, the more likely you are to be tripping balls at any given moment.
Bring Back Dre.
It is hard to predict who will be in a Blazers uniform next year.
Crawford, Oden, Camby, Wallace, and Felton could all leave if they wanted to.
Batum will most likely re-sign, and Blazers will look to bring Freeland over if Freeland agrees to the price.
Batum will get his time to shine and start at some point, especially if Wallace decides to leave. At this point Wallace is still the better player, but Batum does deserve more minutes especially given this grueling schedule.
true
which just makes the situation all the more complicated.
by ripcitymilehigh on Jan 11, 2012 2:08 PM PST up reply actions
Nic is playing 23 minutes per game...
…He get’s minutes based on game situation and performance of himself… and others.
The comparison to the Outlaw situation is ridiculous and has no bearing on the current team. Sometimes people make mistakes… real or imagined… and we have to let it go!
Right now the team is playing well and winning games in an exciting and competitive fashion. This Nic minutes issue has been brought up repeatedly. What has also been brought up, correctly, is that Wallace is a superior option right now at almost all times. Inevitably a fancy calculation is sited that goes someting like this… take 2 minutes from player X and 3 minutes from player Y and switch player Z to position A for 4 minutes and give those minutes to Nic.
The reality is that a basketball game isn’t an Algebra problem. It’s a free flowing bundle of decisions that have to be made based on in game situations. The only real way to judge these decisions is by results and this season the results have been mostly positive. Of the 3 games Nic has played the most minutes TWO of those games were our two losses. His two lowest minute games were…#1… The L*ker game we won were he was 0-5 from the field with 2 rebounds in just under 19 minutes and… #2… Last night… where we also won.
It’s reasonable to question his minutes last night. He played an important role in our second quarter surge and it is a little puzzling why he didn’t play in the 3rd quarter but…again… we won!
I understand that you apparently don’t like Nate, and that’s ok, but in my opinion this post presents no real evidence of the team or Nate “screwing” Nic.
I like Nic and hope he continues to grow into his potential but I think this issue is being largely blown out of proportion.
#7... GO BLAZERS!!!
by Ilikeemall on Jan 11, 2012 2:02 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
If he deserved the PT, he'd get it
No one can say Nate is not fair with his rotation. Batum does nto consistently get to the hoop, either to score or get rebounds. His game is finesse for the most part and that lends itself to a role off the bench…and a limited one at that.
Any production in the French League has zero credibility in the NBA….any overseas league for that matter.
by breakerfall on Jan 11, 2012 3:11 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Fair with rotation?
He was talking about crawford going to the rafters before the guy played a game??? One can argue right now that Batum has played as well or better then Crawford, Matthews and Felton. Its pretty obvious Nate has an idea in his head and Batum only fits in that plan for15-20 min a night. Its short term thinking to win now by Nate and its working. So enjoy the fun year. Maybe injury will open up some minutes and Nate will stumble onto the idea that batum can play the 2 next to Wallace. If not I don’t see Batum staying. Shame, he is a really good well rounded player will no real weakness and potential for being a cornerstone of a franchise.
The Nate-bashing when the team is winning seems wrongheaded
and is unlikely to persuade anyone of anything.
ignacio
Wallace is the better player at
Batum’s primary position, and you play your better player. Batum started at 19 because Webster was injured, and Outlaw did not perform well, as you may recall. Nate’s only option is to give him minutes behind Wallace, and then play him at the 2 or the 4 based on what the other team is doing on any given night. However, Batum is not naturally either a 2 or a 4, and will never start at those positions. And blaming Nate isn’t entirely fair, given that the Blazers front office picked up Wallace knowing very well that this would put Batum into the backup slot at his regular position, and that fewer minutes would be the result. As such, this was a management decision as much as a coaches decision. I suspect that next summer some of this will get resolved, as the Blazers have a series of personnel decisions to make. Batum, Wallace, Felton, Crawford, Oden, and Camby are all going to have to be dealt with. And I, for one, doubt that they’ll all still be here given the new CBA and the fact that we will have to keep Felton, and will have to deal with the Oden and Camby situation at some point.
Someone mentioned that Batum should start in place of Wallace on the 2nd night of a back-to-back.
I couldn’t agree more. When we had ROy and were the slowest paced team out there, this team was exceptional on the 2nd night of these kinds of games. Best in the league for two season I believe? Nonetheless, this current team is a bit older and completely unable to play at the same pace and level they do on the first night of a back-to-back. The players move at a excruciating rate, it’s to the point of complete grimace amongst the fans. Heck, start Crawford as well on these nights.
That might have been my suggestion, at least it is what I posted on another topic.
Pace must be the reason we are so bad on a back-2-back this season. The players just aren’t used to running so much and to be fair have done a good job on the first of a b2b but have started the 2nd of the b2b very badly. Changing too many players from game to games is going to hurt the chemistry of both units as they are still learning how to play with each other. So I’d just make the one change, Batum to start over Wallace on a b2b though since most of the games are b2b means that they could end up starting 50% each.
We all know that Nate hasn’t done a good enough job on developing the younger players we’ve drafted. Batum was primed for a huge season but Nate hasn’t played him as much as I thought he’d get. True, Batum’s FG% this season has dropped but Nate can’t start yanking him just for missing shots. He has to let him shot his way out of the slump. He lets Wes shot whenever he wants but not Batum? I figure Nate is trying to stop Batum’s progression so he doesn’t blow up and start demanding too much in his contract negotiations. Once an agreement is reached I expect better from both Nate and Batum.
Nate should play the bench more, and have a long term season long attitude, instead of win each game at all costs..
Last night was a perfect example. Sure, it was exciting, sure, you love the never-say-die Blazers storming back… But you got the exact same result in the standings as you would have had you played the scrubs once you were down 20+. But your stars expended a great deal of energy just before embarking on a 6 game trip. And you neglected an opportunity to give others some burn.
I love the way the Blazers are playing. But they can’t run 8 guys into the ground every night and expect fresh performances. The beauty of this team is that it has some decent depth, and clearly players like Batum and Crawford and our two new backup bigs have to get big minutes on the second night of a back to back.
I mean, for the playoffs, I get it. This is the 8 man rotation. Excellent! Should be fun, if they’re all still healthy. And sure, then you play to win every game, and run just those 8 guys out there.
But when you’re down 20 – in the second half… I’m sorry, it’s time to pull the plug. The evidence was pretty strong that your first unit was just, as a group, beat. Batum and Craw had energy, Luke didn’t embarass himself… let’s see more Nolan and EW and Rhino and CJ, too!
In short, I’m very much in favor of the Blazers extending the regular rotation to 10 guys during this compressed regular season. Save these 8, as much as you can, for the playoffs… And by all means, play Batum enough to know if he deserves a big fat contract! Lean on the young guys!

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