Is LaMarcus Aldridge Overrated?
Another question came into the inbox recently, reflective of one of the ongoing debates around Blazer Nation:
Dave,
Is LaMarcus Aldridge a franchise player?
Short answer: Yes, but it depends which franchise.
Aldridge is clearly the Blazers' franchise player at this point. He's the most talented player, the highest scorer, the focal point of the offense. He's also good at it. His scoring average rose almost 4 full points last year on 2.5 more shots per game. He shoots 50% overall from the field. His PER is a robust 21.5, ranking him 18th overall in the league. He's blossomed into what the Blazers needed in the absence of Brandon Roy and Greg Oden. There's nothing to fault him for there.
But the question was whether Aldridge was "a" franchise player, not whether he's "our" franchise player. I'm assuming the indirect modifier implies "the kind of player who can take this franchise to great heights, making this incarnation of the Trail Blazers memorable and distinct". The answer to that is more muddled.
Comparing Aldridge to past Portland franchise players I place him in the middle ground between Zach Randolph and Rasheed Wallace. At a similar age to Aldridge Randolph was a more prolific scorer, modified by the fact that he had a higher usage rate and was far less efficient offensively. Randolph was a better rebounder and has kept up his scoring average for a number of years after but Aldridge is clearly the better defender of the two and always will be. Were I building a team I'd take LaMarcus over Zach.
Aldridge is far superior to a similarly-aged Wallace in the scoring department, this time modified by LaMarcus' higher usage rate and number of shots per minute and game. In his entire career Rasheed never sniffed (or likely wanted) the 17.5 attempts Aldridge took last year. Wallace and Aldridge are similar in the rebounding department...not that this is a compliment. But Rasheed was as much superior to Aldridge defensively as Aldridge is superior to Randolph. Throw in Wallace's great court sense and ability to step up in the playoffs and he still outranks Aldridge.
The concern for Portland fans: Randolph never took the Blazers anywhere and Wallace's success was predicated on fantastic teammates as much as his own play. We're not talking Drexler dominance here.
Compared to current players we're nowhere near Kevin Garnett or Tim Duncan level production as they came into their prime years. THOSE are franchise players. Even now, after clearly the best season of his career, Aldridge is far closer to Kevin Martin than Kevin Durant...great player, love to have him, not going to be one of that small handful of guys who wills their team to elite status.
Sometimes the equation gets oversimplified. Our team has a great player + Our team is going somewhere = Our team's best player is now (or soon will be) among the league elite. In truth both the current league and this team's history are populated with really good players who don't end up being that definitive All-Time Franchise Guy.
LaMarcus Aldridge is the franchise player for this team. He would be the franchise player on several teams around the league. On a handful of others--maybe 8-10 depending on how you'd look at it--he'd be the second banana. The distinguishing line between the two sets is that the first group is full of mediocre-to-bad teams in need of a definitive franchise guy and the majority of the second group sits at the top of the league because they already have one. The Blazers aren't there yet. Aldridge may be the centerpiece to their master plan but, as it once was with Wallace, the team's ultimate success likely will depend on the players around him as much as upon LaMarcus himself.
What say you? Is Aldridge overrated by Portland fans because the team needs him to be that good right now? Will LaMarcus become one of those transcendent superstars in the league? Is he already? Weigh in below.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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Aldridge is not one of those transcendent superstars in the league. He played a couple months last season at that level but we still don’t know whether he can play at that level for a whole season, or, hopefully, for multiple seasons.
But since we know he has the physical talent and we know he has the mental toughness when his game is on.
You know this guy is capable of being a superstar so you want to see it happen. I really think there is no way of knowing whether his legacy will be that of a very good player or a hall of famer. There’s just no way to know.
Which power forwards are "transcendent superstars" (whatever that means)?
In crunch time, the NBA is all about guys getting their own or setting others up. Dirk aside, which ‘post’ guys in the NBA do that?
That’s why it’s unfair to slight LMA’s game, even just a little. The dude is a “go to” guy in every sense of the word, so long as the team is generating spacing for him. “Transcendent” guys are ‘bigger’ than that, but such players have to be ball handlers, and even Lebron has his (obvious) offensive limitations in crunch time.
Give me LMA with a well constructed team over a “transcendent” player with average teammates ANY DAY.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Sep 8, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
"Aldridge is far closer to Kevin Martin than Kevin Durant"
I stopped reading at that point. Aldridge is far closer to Kevin Durant than Kevin Martin.
by byronirvin on Sep 7, 2011 10:44 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
Nope, Dave's right.
Bury your head in the sand if you want, but doing so won’t change anything.
Viewing men who play the same position, LaMarcus Aldridge is still closer to David West than Dirk Nowitzki.
Is Aldridge good? He’s good, heck yeah. Been that way for a while. Hell, he was even great for much of last season.
Being great only goes so far, though. There’s a limit to being just great.
Is Aldridge excellent? No, that he’s not. Nor is he an elite superstar, either. He’s simply a star — without the “super” — and that’s that.
"I Am Mine"
i disagree completely.
I love how we consider dirk nowitzki this amazing superstar (and he is, absolutely) now that he’s won a championship, but if you go back to a couple of years ago, no one conisidered dirk anything more than an average all star. They said dirk was too soft, didn’t rebound, and couldnt play defense. Lma is only 25, and is very similar to tim duncan (minus the rebounding) and i think LMA has the talent and phisical attributes to reach that tim dunan elite status. Look around the NBA and who is gonna match LMA? duncan and KG are retireing. Griffin is too small. stoudemire is a headcase. west love and boozer dont have the height or athletic ability. I think LMA is a star now….and a super star in the makeing. I do agree that , like rasheed wallace, he is gonna need some help tho.
people that didn't pay attention thought dirk was an average all star
dirk’s productivity and consistency this past decade is amazing
(The part of my brain that come up with clever signatures is locked out)
by thomasikehara on Sep 8, 2011 6:13 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
haha right?
at LMA’s age Dirk already had 4 22+ PER seasons two of which were above 24.
i keep dancing on my own.
Griffin scares me.
I wouldn’t count that low-hair-lined bully out.
"Coach said to always be careful around Greg, because Greg costs a lot and even the slightest amount of basketball can damage him." -- The Onion
I agree.
Being shorter doesn’t mean anything. Barkley was a guard playing the PF position and would outplay any of the PF’s in the league today. It’s work and heart and he has plenty of it. LMA was probably the only forward that actually gave Griffin a hard time last season, but I would not be shocked to see BG make a big leap. With more seasoning and more weapons.
In reality, Blake Griffin outplayed LaMarcus Aldridge in their head-to-head matchups.
Surprisingly, Zach Randolph was the second tier power forward — which is a group of guys ranging from Amar’e Stoudemire down to Chris Bosh — who fared the best in head-to-head matchups against Griffin.
But yeah, you’re completely wrong about Aldridge giving Griffin a “hard time” when it was the other way around.
"I Am Mine"
nah. i distincly remember all the games we played against the clippers cuz i was amped to see griffin play
and i dont care what the stats say. griffin couldn’t defend lma to save his life. lma had his way with him easy
LMA had one good game, one so-so game, and one awful game against the LAC.
Here are Dave’s assessments about Aldridge from the Blazers v. Clippers game on 12/5/2010:
“LaMarcus Aldridge had bad games. Aldridge fouled out in 23 minutes, shooting 2-10 for 4 points and 5 rebounds. He had exactly one nice move on offense and got his lunch eaten on the other end.” http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/12/5/1857933/game-20-recap-blazers-100-clippers-91
From the same game, here are Ben’s assessments about Blake Griffin.
“The words ‘all star’ were circling around Griffin before, during and after tonight’s game. He went for 21 points, 15 rebounds, 2 assists and 2 steals. Also, about seven or eight feats of athleticism that no one else on the court could conceive of making. Just another day in his life.” http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/12/5/1858017/media-row-report-blazers-100-clippers-91
All right, now that the record has been set straight, y’all should quit with the revisionist history. Let’s keep it real, okay.
"I Am Mine"
don't you know
that game was 10 days before LMA became really good
(The part of my brain that come up with clever signatures is locked out)
by thomasikehara on Sep 9, 2011 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions
griffin might make some cash during the lockout
renting his hairline to lebron. maybe whenever lebron’s appearing publicly.
by williamswonder on Sep 8, 2011 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Like
Also, wondering if you have the link to where I can rent hairlines.
"Coach said to always be careful around Greg, because Greg costs a lot and even the slightest amount of basketball can damage him." -- The Onion
There's this option.
http://www.youtube.com/user/cabokicom?v=xMmDJCwAxKc&feature=pyv&ad=14702218057&kw=hairline
One of the more absurd products I’ve seen in my life.
"I Am Mine"
No one considered Dirk as great as he was...
…because they weren’t watching him play. He’s been the best clutch performer in the league for years, and yet he had a reputation as a choker.
Sheep.
by HeathBlizzard on Sep 13, 2011 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
In response to AK1984
Bury my head in the sand ? You come off a bit arrogant, my friend.
In terms of value to a franchise on both ends of the court, and potential to be a dominant player on a good team, Aldridge is closer to Durant than Kevin Martin. Martin will never make an All-NBA team — he is too one-dimensional.
Durant is a great offensive talent but he has some major flaws — average defensively, more turnovers than assists, etc.
by byronirvin on Sep 8, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
No one is close to Dirk in the PF dept.
I’d rate the Hoff above LBJ in terms of franchise right now. If LaNotFranchise keeps improving, he can be capable of superstar, but for now he’s just our star.
Wrong on this
The LA disrespect continues.
by Iluvdisteam on Sep 7, 2011 10:58 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Who wants to start making
I <3
LMA
T-shirts?
"Coach said to always be careful around Greg, because Greg costs a lot and even the slightest amount of basketball can damage him." -- The Onion
send me one
just guess my address
-TYFB
Maturity is a bitter disappointment for which no remedy exists, unless laughter can be said to remedy anything.
by thankyouforblaze on Sep 8, 2011 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
I think he is overrated in Internet polls, properly rated overall by Portland fans and media, and underrated by NBA fans overall.
"Ted Thompson's running Brett Favre out of Green Bay was the biggest mistake by a GM in the history of the league."
-Skip Bayless, November 2008
by The Cactus Leaguer on Sep 7, 2011 11:13 PM PDT reply actions
overrated????
I don’t think so. I feel like LMA is under appreciated by many of the fans. I think many people have put too much stock in Oden and have since taken their frustration out on Aldridge. Just being honest. Most the criticism I here from locals, he needs to play inside more, he needs to rebound more, he isn’t tough enough etc. are all things that Oden was supposed to provide. It’s why he was selected over Durant, yet Lamarcus continues to get hammered while everybody’s favorite center continues to get a pass.
Personally, I think over the next couple years LMA is gonna continue to grow. This time last year many wondered if he was even good enough to be the #2 next to Brandon. Now, we’re wondering if he is a franchise player.
Ultimately, I think its gonna come down to the system he’s in. Under Nate its gonna be hard to improve too much more on the season he just had. Obviously, he could be a little more consistent but his numbers are always gonna be a little under whelming cuz ISO ball for a guy who’s not very good at putting it on the floor isn’t exactly a winning combination. However, with more movement and some slightly faster play I think LMA could be one of the best 4s in the entire league.
by King Mar on Sep 7, 2011 11:24 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
I agree with ya KMar
Maturity is a bitter disappointment for which no remedy exists, unless laughter can be said to remedy anything.
by thankyouforblaze on Sep 8, 2011 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions
not yet, but very soon i think
Aldridge has been my favorite blazer since day 1 and was my fav college player when he was at Texas. He had an awesome stint last year which I think is a glimpse of what’s to come. If/when Oden gets healthy and if we an develop nolan we may be going places.
LET'S PLAY SOME DAMN DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!
by Batum Shakalaka on Sep 7, 2011 11:56 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
There’s only a handful of true franchise guys, guys that you can win you a title. The number is probably less than 10, easily.
Is LMA one? My feeling? No. I think he’s too psychologically fragile and too dependent on others to support him emotionally. He doesn’t strike me as the leading type, he’s more of the leaning kind. That doesn’t mean you can’t eventually win a title with him, you can, but he’ll likely get shifted back to that 2 or 3 position when the team or any team with LMA reaches that point. He’s a great player, but there’s something missing between the ears.
Overrated? In Portland? Yes. This guy was going through the motions for 4 years or at the very least not willing to go out of his comfort zone. He finally took it upon himself to beef up and add to his game but he wasn’t comfortable, he was afraid and if the pressure didn’t come down upon him like a ton of bricks with Roy & Oden being hurt…where would he be now? Probably still hunkering down in his comfort zone. It took a push from teammates like Camby and Dre to get him going and he gave the team 3 to 4 great months of basketball. The fans now treat him like none of the other crap ever existed, as if he’s their savior comparing him to all time greats like Duncan…hell, they even voted him into the top 3 of the all time favorite Blazers(sans a few)….4 months, that’s crazy. I’ve never seen a player go from being a very dubious “Robin”, to the entire JLA so quickly in the minds of people. Either crap has gotten that bad in Portland to where the fanbase has become desperate for heroes or they are drinking too much of the the M&M juice.
It’s trickled down to the media too. I think he was listed as the 11th best player in the NBA. It’s so bizarre because he was so hated on by people here and abroad to the point where he was underrated, but 4 months and suddenly he’s one of the best the game has to offer? Yeah, that’s overrated.
by Dustructo on Sep 7, 2011 11:59 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Nate wanted him to be a jumping shooting 3rd option
To compliment Roy and Oden. It wasn’t him being in his comfort zone, it was him playing his role.
"The number is probably less than 10, easily."
I’ve got that number of elite superstars who are franchise cornerstones at 2% of the league, which equals 9 players when accounting for 450 available roster spots.
And yeah, you’re right in feeling that LaMarcus Aldridge is not one of those 9 men.
"I Am Mine"
Could not have said it better!!!
Only time will tell if LMA will continue to be the player he showed us he could be or if he will fall back to the 2nd banana role.
Blazers NBA champs 2010-2011! Oden, please stay healthy......
by The Earl of Dunk on Sep 8, 2011 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
No, he's not overrated.
Not given the way he played last year, how well and how reliably. He’s growing as a player and a leader, and he’s as visible (in a good way) in the community as anyone has been here for years.
I don’t understand how Wallace could be considered to be superior. I don’t remember him stepping up in the playoffs in any significant way. I don’t think his basketball IQ was that high. And yeah, LA is twice the offensive force Wallace ever was. As far as defense goes, Wallace was better at his peak…when he cared. That wasn’t all of the time, whereas I’ve never seen LA give less than 100%, even if his 100% wasn’t as good sometimes late in the season because he was understandably exhausted.
Big men don't win without a premier wing/ball handler to support them
so no, LMA is not overrated. He is a highly skilled complimentary player that will thrive with better talent and a system that exploits his strengths (speed/length).
LMA is not overrated because his potential for production is very high. Just because he needs an appropriate system and help doesn’t denigrate his capabilities.
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Sep 8, 2011 1:21 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
"Big men don't win without a premier wing/ball handler to support them"
That’s false.
Hakeem Olajuwon in 1994, Tim Duncan in 1999, and Dirk Nowitzki in 2011 have shown us otherwise.
And no, Jason Terry isn’t a “premier” player. Good? Yes. Underrated? Definitely. Premier? Nope, not at all.
"I Am Mine"
blacknoise is right on. big men usually dont win without a premier ball handler. there is a very good reason why the 3 u mentioned were able to win without one tho
dirk has a very different skill set than most big men. He can hit the outside J and handle the rock. I think that’s why he’s an exception to the rule. Larry bird is the only player i can compare to dirk. he also had a very savy point guard in jason kidd.
Tim duncan had david robinson. Two superstars down low……..nuff said. :D
the rockets had a certain player that went by the name of clyde the glyde drexler….maybe you’ve heard of him :D kenny the jet smith was a pretty damn good little pg too
When Hakeem Olajuwon won his first championship in 1994, Clyde Drexler was still in Portland.
That’s why I didn’t list 1995 when mentioning Olajuwon.
"I Am Mine"
To add to that, Vernon Maxell & Kenny Smith in 1994, Mario Elie & Avery Johnson in 1999, and ...
Jason Terry & Jason Kidd in 2011 weren’t premier perimeter players. As much as I respect Terry as a high-scoring sixth man and feel that Kidd is an active legend, they’re not upper echelon guards at this point time. I could arguably add Tim Duncan circa 2003, too, since neither rookie Manu Ginobili nor 20-year-old Tony Parker had entered stardom yet.
"I Am Mine"
hahaha
Dirk was the “premier” perimeter player on that team. The ’94 Rockets may not of had one “premier” perimeter player but mad max, the jet, Ellie an E.T. combine to make a pretty formidable group of players.
In ’03 the world may not of known it but manu and tp were most definitely premier perimeter players and played like it too, especially Parker. He pretty much destroyed Jason Kidd who at that time was an elite player. The only team that got it done without one would be the ’99 spurs and that was in a shortened season.
I guess you can knit pick it and find exceptions but I tend to agree with blacknoise. In most cases a big man needs perimeter talent around him to take his team to the next level. Either an elite perimeter player or a group of pretty good players.
by King Mar on Sep 8, 2011 6:42 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
TP is a great player
but not from the perimeter.
That's not totally true, as Tony Parker was a premier perimeter player in 2007 when ...
he won the NBA Finals MVP Award. The point here is Parker wasn’t a premier perimeter player in 2003 when Tim Duncan carried the San Antonio Spurs to a championship.
In 2005, the duo of Duncan and Manu Ginobili led the Spurs. Parker, however, struggled mightily that postseason.
"I Am Mine"
hahaha
Dirk was the “premier” perimeter player on that team. The ’94 Rockets may not of had one “premier” perimeter player but mad max, the jet, Ellie an E.T. combine to make a pretty formidable group of players.
In ’03 the world may not of known it but manu and tp were most definitely premier perimeter players and played like it too, especially Parker. He pretty much destroyed Jason Kidd who at that time was an elite player. The only team that got it done without one would be the ’99 spurs and that was in a shortened season.
I guess you can knit pick it and find exceptions but I tend to agree with blacknoise. In most cases a big man needs perimeter talent around him to take his team to the next level. Either an elite perimeter player or a group of pretty good players.
by King Mar on Sep 8, 2011 6:43 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
You have to be kidding about 2003
Tony Parker shot 40% with a PER below 12 for the playoffs. Manu had a league-average PER of 15 David Robinson played less than Malik Rose did in the playoffs, and he was still the only guy who played a decent amount other than Duncan to have a PER of better than 15 in the playoffs. There’s a reason the Spurs seriously considered going after Kidd in free agency to replace Parker, even after winning the title. Regardless of their past or future success, all of the role players ranged from terrible (Parker), to passably awful (S-Jax), to somewhat okay (Manu); no one could remotely have been described as “elite” at the time. The fact that Duncan dragged that team to a title is easily the single most impressive NBA achievement of the last decade for me.
Basically all this talk of needing elite perimeter play is kind of pointless. You need a lot of talent to win an NBA title. Since 60% of the players on the court are considered “perimeter” players (80% in some cases if you’re going to shoehorn Dirk into counting as a perimeter player), there’s a good chance you’ll have a set of perimeter players that can somehow be twisted into calling “elite” (like the 2011 Mavs or arguably the 2004 Pistons). It’s really just exceedingly rare in general to have 2 elite players at 2 specific positions (like PF and Center) anywhere on the court. Generalizing things into “bigs” and “perimeter players” loosens up the definitions enough that you can pretty much fit any combination of players into it, which makes the general dichotomy just a little pointless.
by Royster on Sep 8, 2011 7:05 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, Jason Kidd almost joined the San Antonio Spurs in the summer of 2003 with ...
money from the cap space available due to the retirement of David Robinson and the end of Steve Smith’s hefty contract. Once they didn’t land Kidd, the Spurs settled by spending sizable cash on signing Rasho Nesterovic and also bringing in Robert Horry. Although a three-guard rotation of Kidd, Tony Parker, and Manu Ginobili would’ve been an interesting trio, a frontcourt of Tim Duncan at center, Malik Rose at power forward, and Bruce Bowen at small forward would’ve been on the smallish side; plus, depth at center would’ve been weak with the 41-year-old Kevin Willis behind Duncan.
"I Am Mine"
kinda of missing the point...
Because you basically need an elite team to win a championship, regardless of position. LMA is not going to win a championship on his own, but he can be the centerpiece to a championship team if the parts around him fit. Most likely that means having pretty good perimeter players around him, because like Royster said, 60% (probably 80% in todays league) are perimeter players.
Now, I think LMA is what he is, a really good player. Is he elite? Probably not, but he could become that player. I think the comparison that Dave made about LMA being in between Zach and Rasheed is accurate. Rasheed in my opinion had HOFer talent but wasn’t really interested in being a HOFer. To you and me seems like wasted talent, but I don’t think ‘sheed is losing any sleep over it. He was well compensated and he did win a championship by being just one of the pieces. I think he might have some regrets in regards to that 2000 team, but overall I’m guessing he is fine with how his career turned out. LMA on the other hand, I think he wants to get better and is willing to take the lead and be “the man” for this Portland team. Sometimes it just takes a while for it to click for some players. I don’t think that LaMarcus has that special “it” factor, but he does have all the skills, athletesism, etc. to be a very good and dominating player. When he was drafted, I think the team had envisioned him being the man (based on what KP said about him) but when Brandon (I believe has that special “it” factor) came in and pretty much took the reigns, LaMarcus gladly slid in behind him. That’s just his personality. But when it is all said and done, I think LMA will assert himself and end up being one of the Blazer greats. He has to learn to be the man rather than just be the man. It’s just a part of his makeup. It doesn’t make him any less talented.
by mjr428 on Sep 8, 2011 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
there is usually an exception to every rule - but your "examples" don't catch the whole point
I never said Big’s can’t be the best player – but they don’t win in a vacuum. No matter how skilled Duncan was – he needed to be set up – and he needed players around him to win championships.
In 1999 – Duncan and Robinson were a dynamic duo in the frontcourt, with Elliot the best wing on the team. Elliot’s performance was very good, despite a relatively low PER. What made 1999 even more different is that outside of the offensive efficiency of Duncan/Robinson – that team was stacked defensively from the stars to the role players. That defensive exception applied to 2003 as well. Duncan was great – and carried even more of the load in 2003 – but it was the team defense that allowed him to win it all.
1994 is the one real outlier, where a “big” won without much help from outside or a stout defense (Cassell did have a good playoff run, and Smith was decent – but Olajuwon got more help from Horry than from outside).
And in 2011, Terry had an outstanding playoffs. Of all your examples – 2011 has the weakest case by far.
Really, only 2003 Duncan and 1994 Hakeem truly support your premise – but 97% of the time – bigs require outstanding play from outside to win it all – a much better premise.
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Sep 8, 2011 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
take THAT Kevin Love
burned
Maturity is a bitter disappointment for which no remedy exists, unless laughter can be said to remedy anything.
by thankyouforblaze on Sep 8, 2011 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Story Unfinished...Work Still In Progress...
It’s not typical of something you say about a player of Aldridges tenure in the league. But I would say I don’t think Aldridge has reached his ceiling. I think Aldridge has had to discover himself and rediscover his role to this team. He stepped up last season, and I await the opportunity to see what Aldridge emerges once the N.B.A. resumes. I’d like to see what Aldridge can contribute when his minutes can be better managed, with the addition of some frontline depth.
This was a team being built and manufactured to facilitate the best talents of a Brandon Roy. I hate to say it, but circumstance has forced change. How good could Aldridge be when the team plays primarily to his strengths?
I thought Aldridge had a great season last year, despite being asked to do too much, and play far too many minutes.
Is Aldridge overrated…underrated? It’s going to be up to Aldridge to define. And even though it[‘s usually said about rookies or sophmores…I don’t think we are done defining LaMarcus Aldridge.
I thought he had a great season last year, BUT was disturbed by some of his commentary. Where perhaps diplomatically he defered leadership to Brandon Roy. I think Aldridge if he wants to take that next step, needs to realize he is the franchise player now, like it or not. Which means this team on most nights is going to thrive or die, based disproportionatly on his personal performance.
Aldridge has all the skills…so much so that I would say, whether he can make the next step up, is really all up to him. To the very best, very very good isn’t good enough. I don’t think it’s a matter of whether anyone overrates Aldridge or underrates Aldridge.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
i think LMA will easily be a better player than rasheed wallace was in portland ( and i loved Sheed)
espn is stil doing their ranking of nba players, and i wouldn’t be surprised at all if lma ends up in the top 25. to me, that’s elite status. if espn says it it must be true right :D
not overrated
Closer to Kevin Martin than Durant? Portland would not trade LMA for two Kevin Martin’s. Lamarcus has a significant edge over both Randolf and Wallace. He has his head straight. For that reason alone he is better. He is still not fully appreciated for his defense. When he was able to play with Camby last year he really pounded PF’s. One can only dream of what he could do with Oden next to him this season. His peak is still 2-3 season’s away.
IS he a top 5 player ? Who cares. Is he a player that can be key on a championship team? That is the real question. I say yes. There is a very good mix on our team now. Even if Roy can only play limited minutes at a reduced role, A healthy Oden pushes into championship contention.
LMA is not a center
and will never be able to guard guys like Dwight Howard, or Tyson Chandler, or even a guy like Joel Przybilla, because he won’t put on the weight necessary to guard against that kind of strength. He is a very good PF, and actually would not be terrible playing SF. That said, look at what we used to say about playing Brandon out of position. You expect miracles when the same is done with LMA half the game? He is a very good PF, and will produce like one for years to come. Pair him with a defensive center that isn’t injured all the time, and let him do what he did this year as a number one option, and then you can really evaluate him. No, hes not Lebron, CP3, Wade, Howard or Dirk. That’s really all we can put definitively above him at this point. Durant, maybe better… but defense is still a question mark with that kid. Derrick Rose had a very good defensive cast around him and he disappeared with Lebron on him. LMA doesnt disappear when Howard goes on him. So you have maybe 7 guys above him for sure in the NBA right now. Look at LMA’s supporting cast for most of last year… is it really the kind of team you could switch him for one of those 7 and win titles with? Maybe Howard and maybe Dirk, but Dallas had a better supporting cast, Lebron and Wade are together now trying for a title, and LA the past few years has had the best big man threesome in the NBA. Big men win titles, and Aldridge is good enough to be number one of three or four down low. That should be enough to get him some respect, as long as we don’t forget hes still a cog and not the wheel.
"and actually would not be terrible playing SF."
LaMarcus Aldridge cannot play the 3 whatsoever.
"I Am Mine"
Ya the guy doesn't have the handles
or the range to play that position at an elite level. Or to be able to defend other 3’s. Thats no knock to LMA, but being 7 feet tall makes it hard to be as quick as some of the smaller guys.
Agreed. I'm so sick of fans saying Nic can run the point
and LMA can play the 3. Just ridiculous.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Sep 8, 2011 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
If luke babbitt can play the three
so can LMA. And I said would not be terrible. BIG difference between good and not terrible. I’m saying he could pull it off against a guy like Shawn Marion… someone without good range. Defense defines your position on the court, and in the half-court, an offense can be run through a center as a point who has no handles, but good passing ability… but i digress into other arguments. And you seem to have a tendency to pick out one minor weak point in an argument and push until it APPEARS to fail… any other comments? I know the mood around Blazersedge lately has been crummy, but jeez, when did we all forget to TRY to be pleasant?
On a related note, I don’t think blazer nation would be so depressed next year if we do an S&T for Oden for even something so minor as an expiring contract… any thoughts on that? I mean seriously, we already have one millstone around our neck, why do so many fans want to place a lil more weight on our drowning bodies?
by avalancheman on Sep 8, 2011 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Hmmm...
Defense defines your position on the court
Not really. You don’t HAVE to have defined positions, but your wing DOES theoretically have to be able to put the ball on the floor and guard guys running through picks. LMA is perfect at 4 because he isn’t being asked to bang the other team’s biggest guys all game and neither is he running around the court chasing Durant or Melo. Both would wear any guy his out.
I can see where putting him on Marion would work. So would putting him on KG at times. But since the Blazers are so thin up front it’s likely we’ll never see the former and, for better or worse, plenty of the latter this upcoming season in 2012/2013.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Sep 9, 2011 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Also,
did you just say that Luke Babbitt can play an actual NBA position? WOW. Bold claim.;)
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Sep 9, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
"but jeez, when did we all forget to TRY to be pleasant?"
The problem with me is I’ve never been pleasant in the first place.
No hard feelings, though.
"I Am Mine"
fair enough...
no hard feelings here either… just noticing you have the arguing gene. And that attitude seems to be prevalent on this board in a way it was not before we realized Roy was no longer Roy. That kinda worries me.
To reply to Hipster… true wings do need handles better than LMA possesses but there are wings who don’t have that skill-set and do just fine. For 10 minutes a game, I would have no problem with LMA at the three… but 20 minutes as the biggest guy on the court worries me as a long term solution. Tallest, ok, but we need another true center much more than we need a backup PF… if he could get down to just below 40 minutes a game, and only playing the center position when foul trouble comes along for the other guys who can play center would be ideal, and thats why I think we haven’t seen what he can do yet.
…and yes, nic can PLAY the point… but you need a guy with major handles at the two or three spot alongside him there to put together a successful offense.
replacing LMA with Dirk would make Portland a scary team
because both teams are build around PFs.(last season roster) :Dirk,Camby,Miller,Wallace,Roy,Mathews,Batum,Fernandez etc make a hell of a team
thats just it, they arent
the team was ACTUALLY, other than Wallace, and Miller, built around the concept of Roy being All-NBA Roy. LMA changed his stripes to fit into that team last year, and that was what made it doubly remarkable. Camby is way past his prime, and who would be the center to play alongside Dirk? Dirk playing the same number of minutes at center as LMA did… play that out in your mind… I doubt they get past the first round with Dirk, just as they did not with LMA.
by avalancheman on Sep 11, 2011 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions
That past his prime Camby...
would be the second best center (behind Chandler) that Dirk would have ever had.He made the finals with erica dampier, and he had nothing like Gerald Wallace or Brandon Roy…..yes… even with his bad knees, he won a playoff game against the Mavs.At center they could throw bodies like Chris Johnson, and I think there more than enough talent and great role players on a team like that to make deep playoff run
Lama is better then that
Lamarcus as “Odenrising” mentioned has his head screwed on off and on the court. He is the best offensive PF this team has seen since I don’t know when and his D comes with a decent center to help him. Lama is only going to get better and he will carry this team to new heights!
if people think he is a premier 1st or 2nd team all nba shoe-in
then yes, he is overrated.
if people don’t consider him an all star or a top 5 power forward in the nba then he is underrated,
you can’t say someone is overrated or underrated when there is no unanimous opinion on someone
(The part of my brain that come up with clever signatures is locked out)
Ummm...
There is never a unanimous opinion on sports. So can no one ever be underrated or overrated? There is a general opinion held by people as a whole (NBA fans) or specific groups of people (PTB fans) and of course there are going to be dissenting views within those groups. But really? Unanimous opinion? Isn’t that an oxymoron?
by portlandpete on Sep 8, 2011 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think the Kevin Martin thing is probably a bit unnecessary
and this debate is quite a bit of huff and puff over nothing… there is a group of players with a wide variety of strengths and weaknesses at his position but that are roughly of the same value. Aldridge would have to separate himself from that pack to be a “franchise player.”
The only guys who are clearly better at PF are Dirk and Pau Gasol (yes I will take 10 years of ridiculous production over one stinker of a playoffs).
In LMA’s “group” so to say are:
David West
Amare Stoudemire
Kevin Love
Z-Bo
KG (yes, 2200 minutes of 20.6 PER and the best defense on the planet is enough to put him in the discussion)
Duncan (assuming you consider him a PF, see KG’s entry)
Bosh (put any of these guys in his brutal situation and see how they do)
So until LaMarcus separates himself from this pack, you can’t really talk about him as a franchise player. And yes, there are arguments you can make that show LaMarcus to be above these guys. Unfortunately, it is no clear thing, until he shows that the two month stretch of MVP-level play in midseason indicates a true trajectory instead of a blip.
i keep dancing on my own.
I think
he is talking about how that currently play. Duncan was not dominant for most of the year and neither was KG (due to injury and limited effectiveness).
I would take (an emotionally stable) Pau over KG or Duncan right now.
With that logic
Pau didn’t play too great last season either. I understand where your going….but how does Pau get last season waved and the other 2 don’t. I also think if your going to compare LMA to anyone its Pau Gasol, not Dirk like many have done since the playoffs.
guess the playoffs were so bad
that it made me forget the rest of the season.
I agreed with most of this
but LaMarcus is better than Bosh yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
by BlazerFanFromDenver on Sep 8, 2011 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lots of career left
Is Lamarcus a franchise player? Does introducing the term “overrated” ensure emotional responses?
Otherwise I pretty much agree with your assessment. Aldridge will have a lot of opportunities to rise or fall over the last couple years of his contract with the Blazers. If he can continue playing at last years level on the offensive end and the Blazers acquire some depth in the front court so we can see what LA looks like on D when he isn’t playing conservatively, we might see him rise from the “our” label to the “a” level franchise player.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
by tssbro on Sep 8, 2011 7:05 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I don't think LMA is over rated
I haven’t heard talk that he’s better than he is — but that awesome stint where he was leading the team last season before B.Roy got back, was some of the most fun Blazer ball I’ve watched in a while. Hope we get back to that once the season starts on Valentine’s Day.
"Coach said to always be careful around Greg, because Greg costs a lot and even the slightest amount of basketball can damage him." -- The Onion
He's shown an ability to grow and improve
that is encouraging, I feel like I haven’t seen many players change and improve their game as much as LMA has over the last two years. He may be an anomaly that continues to get even better than we imagine, That’s a big maybe though, I still think he’s worth his contract even now though.
Franchise player != championship piece
Taking Dave’s subtext one step further:
I’m assuming the indirect modifier implies “the kind of player who can take this franchise to great heights, making this incarnation of the Trail Blazers memorable and distinct”.
I think the REAL underlying question is: Can we win a WCF or championship with LMA as the cornerstone of the team. There’s an implied assumption that big time winning isn’t possible unless we have at least one. Therefore, either LMA is a “franchise” player and we have a shot, or he isn’t and we don’t.
I reject that line of thinking, mostly. Yes you need at least one dominant player that can create scoring opportunities in the face of all kinds of defenses in order to seriously contend. But clearly the Heatles have proven that this is not a magic bullet. Boston’s Big Three had a lot more going for them than star power.
In that context, I can easily picture LMA as being a vital cog of a championship roster. Will he ever be a LeBron or a Dwayne Wade? Most likely never. But he possesses the both the individual talent AND the team first mentality to be a champion. The current league and NBA history are littered with mind-bogglingly good individual players who never sniffed a championship. I don’t see LaMarcus in that category. The question is, can we put together a lineup that includes LaMarcus that can contend? If not, we may someday repeat history and lament the Texas team that puts LMA and Durant together in 2016..
"You can pretty much flip a coin to see which Portland team will show up: the dark-horse world-beaters or the mixed-up eggbeaters" - Dave
Let's rephrase the question
If the Blazers make no significant changes in talent level and Greg Oden doesn’t have a significant impact: Would LaMarcus eventually be able to lead this team to the Finals?
I think no. Does that mean that LMA couldn’t be the best player on a finals team? I’m not sure, but we would need to have significant upgrades at point-guard and center in order for that to happen.
Raymond can't do the job?
How can you say that before he even plays a game for us? He has been a pretty good point guard on some pretty iffy teams. If Fisher can do it, Felton can do it.
by AR-15 on Sep 8, 2011 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The answer to your question is pretty obvious...
Aldridge was the starting PF and the back up center for most of the season. If the Blazers had been able to add one front court player for the entire season and especially into the playoffs, the results to last season would have been better. Take Oden out of the equation and give them a healthy Camby/Przybilla combo (or either one of those guys with Pendergraph) and they would have been able to weather the ups and downs of Roy much more smoothly without riding Aldridge so hard. More importantly, Aldridge would be a much more effective defender with the ability to take risks without fear of a huge drop-off when he gets in foul trouble. Aldridge did not keep them from advancing last season.
So let me rephrase your question…Who could have taken that front court (minus Aldridge) into the second round? Dirk? Pau? Lebron? Wade? Kobe?
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
In the east...
All of the above, as long as you made sure you werent facing the heat or the bulls in the first round. In the west… maybe Pau. MAYBE, but even there not getting past Chandler, Haywood, Dirk. Totally agree. The year Przy goes for 82 games we had home court… ok we had Oden for more games that season than any other season also, but Przy was playing like the center he was supposed to be… Front court depth (and height and talent) is what wins in the playoffs.
by avalancheman on Sep 8, 2011 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Aldridge > Wallace
Aldridge to me is better than Sheed. I wasn’t terribly knowledgeable about the ins and outs of defending when Wallace was in his heyday here, but I would disagree with Sheed being that much better than LMA. I would say their offensive skills are similar, but LMA has better decsion making, not chucking up all sorts of threes, and is clearly a better teammate and won’t lose games by racking up Ts.
If Aldridge had veterans with Smitty and Pippen’s stature, plus a Sabonis and a deep supporting cast filled with floor-spacers and tough defenders like Wallace did, the Blazers would be a shoo-in for conference finals.
by AJB2 on Sep 8, 2011 9:52 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Aldridge was a franchise player for two months last year. Need to see his play from that stretch be extended for a full season before I sign off on him as a franchise player though. He sure came a long way from where he was in years past though.
long live the jd.
I also fall in the "too soon to tell" category
He showed a new peak for his talent this year. Plus he’s young enough that, if this new peak is legit and sustained, we have time to build around it for a run. But I don’t think we’ll know for sure until, well, it’s too late. For better or worse.
Nah...
Just if he had done that same work in the postseason, it would have been enough. But barring the great postseason stuff, you’re right he still needs to sustain that level.
by avalancheman on Sep 8, 2011 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think LMA is overrated.
But I don’t think he is a franchise player. He had a great season..probably the best for his career. He will make an All Star game, I mean he deserved it last year. He will be a good player for years to come, but he’s not the MAN. He is more like the second guy.
that article depressed me enough we make a trade for his sake! :(
So he don’t waste his life here like KG in Minnesota. We trade him for Chris Bosh so he can go win the Championship with Miami for his good service. Not!!!! Rasheed played when he wanted to and never really used all his talent Aka LAZY-A. And Zach was a Black hole for offense when he was here that if he was on we would win and if he was triple teamed he wouldn’t pass out and we would lose if he missed 15 or so shots. Please LaMarcus last year showed you People he can be the faceup/Back to the basket monster we all wanted him to be. He Showed a Maturing last year that can only get better in my opinion and they gave him the giant feeder in Ray Felton. You watch, People will say Andre who if we ever see a season. Still need a back up bruiser to soften up the front line though. and they tried to get us a knock down 3 shooter in Diebler but Eh? Europe right?
DON’T MESS WITH MY BOY ALDRIDGE AND DON’T COUNT OUT ROY JUST YET!
Blazer believers unite!
P.S. Leave Gerald Wallace as a small forward for god sakes and use Batum on anyone that is beating our defenders
Fill the talent holes like Sheed had and then try to question Aldridge’s game if he doesn’t tear up other teams. Get me a Front line Player!
Aldridge is still figuring things out
and pretty young as well. It’s going to be hard to tell if we’re overrating him until he settles down for awhile. Case in point: many people were screaming “overrated!” just before LMA had his epiphany at the Mavs game in Dallas last season.
We could say LMA = whatever and compare it to general consensus …getting a result of “overrated”. As soon as you make the decision, though, Aldridge might hit another milestone in his development as a basketball player and leave us all completely speechless once again.
All this assuming the NBA/player’s union figure things out.
I think an underrated part of LAs 10/11 was how much he stunk coming out of the gates
Until mid December he was putting up some terrible numbers. From that point until the end of February his production was absolutely superstar calibre – his PER in that stretch (calculated by someone more mathematically inclined than myself) was 26.9.
Nevertheless, that is cherry picking as much as calling his early struggles or late season plateauing indicative would be. Truth in my eyes is that we don’t know what LaMarcus Aldridge can be for us because the range of performance he displayed last season was pretty varied. I don’t think top 3 at his position is out of the question, nor do I think regression back to 2nd banana level production is either.
| 23.1 | .647 | .605 | 15.6 | 28.3 | 21.9 | 6.7 | 0.9 | 7.7 | 17.8 | 20.7 | 118 | 100 | 1.3 | 1.0 | 2.2 | .214 |
He can't play Roy-ball and put up numbers.
No big man can. When you set a pick for Andre you get a dunk. When you set a pick for Roy you get to watch him go one-on-one then kick it out to a bad three point shooter…
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Sep 9, 2011 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
The final answer is......YES Dave........
He’s overrated…but not by me!
We must endeavor to persevere.

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