Help From the Bench?
by Dave on Sep 20, 2011 10:00 PM PDT
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PrintDear Dave,
You've talked plenty about the starting lineup. What are the chances of a breakout year or career from players deep on the Blazer bench or currently overseas?
Portland's low-level players fall into two broad categories: those we've seen play in the NBA and those we haven't.
The two big guys we've seen in uniform are Earl Barron and Chris Johnson. Barron isn't going to make a rotation anywhere in the league. Johnson provides a slightly better hope because of his agility and jumping ability. We haven't seen enough from him to convince me to get excited though. The Blazers have made a small investment in him with a multi-year deal. It's kind of like playing high-jackpot nickel slots in Vegas. If you happen to hit big your dreams come true. If not you haven't lost more than a buck. It was the right signing but that doesn't mean he's the right player or even a viable one. Plenty of other teams have prospects just as good.
The smaller players we've seen on the court are Patty Mills, Armon Johnson, and Luke Babbitt.
Mills has been the most consistent contributor. He's already making a difference in the rotation, albeit as the bubble player. There's no reason to think he'd nosedive. He might even improve. His defense isn't great and his offense is self-indulgent for a point guard. He may make a nice deep shooting release valve if some of the other Blazers learn to handle the ball better. Even in his best-case scenario it's unlikely he'll climb higher on the depth chart though.
Johnson has problems with handles and uses even more possessions than Mills when he's running the point. He does have defensive potential and his athleticism is good. We were talking the other day about "it" factor and Johnson has more of that than any other player we've mentioned. If there's going to be a break-out star in this bunch it's him. But that's still a major longshot.
Whatever is the opposite of "it factor", that's what Luke Babbitt has. He looks awkward on the floor, out of synch with the game, and shaky on his shot. He's not yet learned how to play at this level. He looks more concerned about not getting embarrassed at this level. It's a long way from that to contributing player, let alone star. Babbitt will have to show us something radically different before he even belongs in this conversation.
That leaves players we haven't seen play. For simplicity's sake lets consider those Nolan Smith, Elliot Williams, Victor Claver, and Joel Freeland.
Williams remains tantalizing, probably the most potentially explosive of the bunch. Smith is reportedly a safe bet but his talent level and final position remain up in the air. Some folks are excited about Freeland but I wasn't in love with him years ago when he showed up at summer league and I've become less so since it's taken him so long to bake overseas. Obviously some of that is contract but a European big man has to be pretty darn good to make it here. I'm not sure he is If the Blazers get anything out of Freeland it will be a bonus. Claver makes the more interesting case as he can defend and can shoot a little. Unless he can learn to score with more consistency he'll not be a strong candidate for a starting position but he could come over and fill bench minutes at some point.
Nevertheless, banking on players (or even talking them up) when they haven't played a single game in the league is a fool's errand...the province of teams with nothing else to hope for. Hopefully the Blazers and their fans aren't that desperate yet.
The short answer to the question is that Portland is banking on its top eight players to come through big time. (The number eight assumes reasonable enough health for Oden and Roy to play a little.) Anything coming off the deep bench would be unexpected, though welcome. This is no longer the team of 2006 where surprises supposedly abounded. What you see is what you get with the 2011-12 Blazers.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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Freeland is ready to play at the NBA level right now. His ACB stats are much better than those of Claver, who I don’t see as being NBA ready at all. He won’t be a star but there’s every reason to believe he could be a competent backup. Its an open question when the Blazers will be able to come over though— and with the lockout its probably not now.
The difference between Smith’s ceiling and floor is so small that he has to crawl around his apartment. I expect he’s going to be a capable backup PG but not a starting level player. A top 8 rotation guy? I can see that.
Freeland and Smith are the only guys on this list I’m confident can be solid NBA rotation players.
I like Chris Johnson on the roster but don’t see him becoming a top 8 guy. I think Armon Johnson has some potential to be a decent backup PG but he won’t get that chance with Nolan Smith around. I’m not very high on Eliot Williams since he’s not very skilled and I don’t know if he’ll retain his athleticism post surgeries.
Claver was a scrub for Spain’s national team at Eurobasket and his ACB stats don’t really look like he’s making strides. He has some potential still, for sure, but I don’t feel comfortable saying more since I haven’t seen much of him.
I still think Babbitt is the most talented guy on this list. He’s the best shooter, has a good face up game and a good post game. He was a lottery pick for a reason and was brilliant in the D-League. I fully agree that he was a complete disaster last year at the NBA level and showed no confidence whatsoever. He’ll have to figure that out if he wants to get off the bench at all. So, I may be crazy, but I see Babbitt as having the highest upside of any of these guys but the worst chance of realizing that upside.
long live the jd.
I'd almost agree with you about Babbitt but I'm not sure he has the athleticism to even play in the NBA.
He’s probably going to wash out completely or come back with a confidence transition (having seen what the NBA is all about) and become an 8th-9th man shooter off the bench. I just can’t imagine much more from him.
If I had to pick a long shot (which all of them are) it would probably be Elliot. If he still has the hops then potentially he could transform into something. I remember Clyde’s first year. All he had was hops, but that can get you playing time and a chance to make something of yourself.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Sep 20, 2011 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions
"I remember Clyde’s first year."
Do you remember James “Hollywood” Robinson’s first year?
I obviously don’t. If you do, though, then think more along those lines.
"I Am Mine"
Oh yeah, I remember Hollywood.
He was fun to watch – at times. He ran hot and cold. When hot he could sizzle. When cold, it was the North Pole. He was very undersized as a shooting guard, but he could get up in the air when attacking the basket.
Elliot is bigger. Listed as 6’4 or 6’5. And is apparently a spectacular leaper that also has quickness. Obviously PDX saw something in him to draft him at #22 knowing he would miss the season with knee surgeries. My only comparison of him to Clyde was to make the point that Clyde arrived in Portland with not much more than great leaping ability and quickness, which got him playing time and a chance to develop.
Anyway, I’m not predicting greatness or even that the kid will have a long NBA career. But out of that list of long-shots he may be the one with the athletic skill to stick around long enough to develop his game and succeed.
This from DraftExpress is encouraging:
Williams’ best asset in comparison to his peers is his ability to use his quickness to get to the line. He was fouled on an impressive 14.2% of his overall shots, leading our sample of prospects by more than 3%.
Despite ranking right around average in terms of half court field goal percentage (42.2%), Williams scores on a higher percentage (45.4%) of his non-fast break possessions than any other player. Clearly, his first step plays a major role in his ability to create contact at the rim.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Sep 21, 2011 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Being able to draw fouls is a positive, although I wonder if Elliot Williams can keep up with ...
aggressively attacking the basket at that rate post-injury versus bigger, tougher NBA competition.
"I Am Mine"
I think if anything Elliot will out perform Bayless
and Bayless isn’t the worst 1 or 2 to come off the bench.
Despite my disdain for Jerryd Bayless, I disagree.
My expectation for Elliot Williams is that he’ll be a bust.
"I Am Mine"
Well if there is ever a season
I guess we might find out.
Interesting.
That description does sound encouraging. Blazers are starving for a player that can get to the line consistently.
Hmm, I'd say Joel Freeland has by far and away the most upside of anybody who's listed above. I also ...
agree that Nolan Smith has both a low ceiling and high floor, but strongly feel that he’s perfect as a starting 1 in the right situation. Yet, with that said, the right situation would involve Portland upgrading at the starting shooting guard spot, because Brandon Roy can no longer be counted on regularly and Wesley Matthews is much better suited to start at the 3 or come off the bench as a backup swingman on a legitimate contender.
Oh, and regarding who I’d want starting at the 2 next to a point guard platoon of Raymond Felton and Smith, I’m still riding on the Iggy bandwagon. Unlike Matthews and Nicolas Batum, Andre Iguodala possesses the much-needed quality of smooth handles and sharp court vision; furthermore, he’s an actual lockdown wing defender, while both Wes and Nico are both dreadfully overrated on that end of the court.
Back to the bench players who Dave brought up, Earl Barron and Chris Johnson both have non-guaranteed, minimum-level contracts for next season and, quite frankly, neither one of them should make it to the club’s opening-night roster. When a roster has scrubs on it like Barron and Johnson, it becomes glaringly obvious that the team’s frontcourt depth must be shored up during the off-season. Don’t get me wrong, either, since I wish Barron and Johnson well. It’s just that I wish them well where they belong … the D-League.
Regarding Elliot Williams, I’m with you. All I see in Williams is a raw, undersized two guard coming off of an injury that may very well sap him of his one above average trait (i.e., athleticism), which is bad news. At best, Williams could be to the Blazers what Ronald “Flip” Murray was with the Seattle SuperSonics for a few years — two of which were spent under Nate McMillan — and that’s not a good thing, either, as “Flip” was nothing but an ultra-athletic, yet inefficient chucker and gunner who also sucked royally on defense. As it is, I expect the same crappy outcome for Williams.
Looking at Luke Babbitt, he’s horrible. The worst use of a #16 pick since Kirk Haston, who’s equally as pale as the ghostly Babbitt. Had Babbitt battled tougher competition in college for a big conference school rather than padded his numbers with the mid-major Nevada Wolfpack, I expect that his efficiency stats wouldn’t’ve become so inflated, the comparison of him to a similarly flawed player in Nik Caner-Medley would’ve taken hold, and it’s unlikely a team would’ve burned a first-rounder on him.
Finishing up, I still feel Armon Johnson has the potential to be a decent backup. Yet, Johnson must diversify his offensive game, work on his long-range shooting, cut down on the turnovers, learn the nuances of team defense, and quit being overaggressive at on-ball defense. The problem, however, is the Trail Blazers don’t have the luxury of available playing time to invest in a medium-risk/medium-reward prospect like Johnson. If Patty Mills returns to Portland on his one-year, $1,171,494 qualifying offer — which’d almost assuredly be at Paul Allen’s behest — then it’s probable that the front office will cut bait with Johnson.
Oh, and last but not as well as least, Victor Claver doesn’t do a damn thing for me. Most of the reports about Claver have him sound like a Spanish version of Bostjan Nachbar, which is a big, fat “meh.” Sooner or later, I figure Claver will go the way of Petteri Koponen by being dealt elsewhere as trade filler.
"I Am Mine"
I have no expectations for Barron or Johnson really.
But I don’t think having them signals a glaring hole either. We do have things to shore up, but having Alaa Abdelnaby on the Drexler team was more of a novelty than a negative, and that’s about where I see those two. ;)
Barron is terrible
CJ might be usable as an end of the bench guy.
Johnson played hard and made a few key plays
He doesn’t seem like a big presence, but he showed something.
Thats why I'm saying an end of the bench guy
He can contribute, but he’s not exactly the guy you want to call on when you NEED to get it done.
I agree about Barron
I’m surprised he got the two votes he did
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Sep 21, 2011 11:07 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
re freeland and claver
I find it kind of strange that a lot of folks (including Dave) seem to have soured on the whole concept of stashing draft picks. Retaining rights to a guy while someone else pays him to go up against competition that’s far better than NCAA and D-League, and you don’t have to find playing time for him because he may not be ready makes a ton of sense. KP made a few stash picks that haven’t panned out amazingly well, but the overall strategy is still sound.
i keep dancing on my own.
Eliott Williams
Basically taking a flier, but he’s the guy I think years down the road may be the biggest impact player. And he was left out of the poll.
by jtkerr79 on Sep 20, 2011 10:36 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
The poll left off elliot williams
He’s the one we want to see,
the poll left out an option for...
none of them are likely to have any meaningful impact or regularly see the top 8 rotation barring an injury which i guess i should assume is a guarantee at this point but that’s too depressing.
i think it would be a lot more reasonable to ask top 10 rotation. there are too many set players ahead of them to make 8 without assuming injuries.
not many teams have studs outside the top 8 anyway
i’m fine with that
by rip_city_swagger on Sep 20, 2011 11:30 PM PDT reply actions
Claver
even if he never plays here. The kid is only 23 and can pass, score and continues to improve his game annually. Most players plateau, but he’s been making strides despite some of the injuries he’s had.
Joel Freeland
We need him this season, and I really hope we get him in 2012. Please Joel cross the pond already!
The smarter you are, the more likely you are to be tripping balls at any given moment.
Bring Back Dre.
I have read that he is ready
But because of his contract over-seas, and the lock-out, He plans for next year if he can get quality playing time.
hg
1 Smith
2 Freeland (not for the 2011-12 season, only after that)
3 Williams
4 C. Johnson
5 A. Johnson
6 Babbitt
Mills probably won’t be a Blazer after the next free agency period, otherwise he’s #4. Armon might be gone in the near future if Smith plays well. But he still could be the backup or backup’s backup if he learns how to use his off hand and is putting up a good fight with Smith and Williams like he did last year with Patty, though allegedly his stock with Nate has dropped a lot. Barron is gone or not a rotation prospect. E-Will should see minutes at both guard spots (I’d like to see him get some time alongside Smith with both able to play combo guard), and it might be quite a lot over the course of a season depending on the health of Roy and/or Wesley. Claver is less likely to come to the Blazers with Batum and Wallace on the roster than Rudy is likely to play the next 4 years in Dallas.
Williams, for me
Simply because of his athleticism. He might not be any good at all, or he could be great. We just haven’t seen him.
Nolan Smith IMO is the most surefire player out of this list to become a solid
contributor for our team and at the NBA level. He was one of most experienced players in draft and Coach K’s players often have great BBIQ. I dont think he will ever be a star but he is the most surefire solid rotation player out of the group.
EWill- by far has most potential to be a star with his crazy athleticism and handles. He is a feast or famine type player who IMO has 6th man of year potential(not saying he will ever get there)
Armon-gets my vote as most improved player out of this group. He is a gym rat and if he shoots ok from distance and avoids jacking up one handed runners and TO’s he has starting PG potential because of his excellent defense. I was surprised he didn’t get more run last year, i know McMillan hates TO’s but he also loves him some defense.
Joel Freeland- has drastically improved over the past 3-4 years and he would easily be a rotation player IF he comes over. Portland needs bigs and if they are able to convince that he will get PT here, he would be a solid addition to our roster. He would never be a star in the NBA but he wont be a total dud either.
Babbitt sucks so lets just forget about him, hes just a shy, unconfident, white boy who cant even do the dougie ;) SORRRY LUKE
Chris Johnson has a ton of potential, but potential is a dangerous word. He NEEDS to gain atleast 15 lbs of muscle over next few years to become a reliable rotation big. That said he showed he can contribute last yr, and played unexpectadely well in last years playoffs
Patty wont be with the team much longer unless PA cant shake his bromigo mancrush on good ol Patty
" Yeah, this is pretty much me, every day. Staring at butt holes and getting my buzz on. "
In my eyes...
Its Freeland. It seems fairly likely we will bring him over in 2012, especially since we did not pick up another big in the draft. Even if we re-sign Oden and trade MCEC (Marcus Camby Expiring Contract… lets start talking about it :-p) for another big… Freeland could see a spot as the backup to LMA. Now, I realize if that is the case, hes actually number 9 in the rotation, barring injury, as Oden’s backup is 7, or 6, for obvious reasons. Current Starters, plus Roy, plus Oden, plus Batum makes 8. Roy can play point for limited minutes, and Batum can play 2 for limited minutes, and both can play their natural positions… leaving no room in the 8 man rotation for another wing or PG. We are married to Roy, for better or worse, so unless theres an amnesty clause that would free up space, the only spot that could get decent minutes is another big, unless you want Wallace at the 4. I just don’t see Nolan Smith, Armon Johnson, or Elliot Williams passing up Roy until he can no longer produce. CJ will be five fouls worth of okay defense off the bench plus a little upside, Babbitt has way too much to prove still, while Freeland would not look completely out of place as the third string Center, or as the backup Power Forward. As he could fill either role (and I believe he could count as both the minute he comes over) I see a solid spot in the rotation for him. How good he will perform there, is anyone’s guess.
I'd say Freeland...
…but I’m not convinced he’ll ever come over.
Instead I’m going with Elliot Williams. It’s not so much that I even necessarily think him the best of the rest, but more that I see him better able to earn playing time, dramatically increasing his chances of success.
Why? I figure he’ll have a chance to take most of the minutes Fernandez had last season AND potentially battle for some PG time. Should someone like Felton or Aldridge go down for any length of time, the doors will open for someone else… but by then the season will be lost (if it isn’t already).
why?
Why even utter the words, " should someone like Felton or Aldridge go down for any length of time." Why? In the words of the immortal Sir Charles, THATS TURRIBLE.
God bless you Dave.
But there isn’t going to be any Blazer games this season.
by doomsdaymachine on Sep 21, 2011 7:03 AM PDT reply actions
I haven't read all the post because I have to leave for work
But, on the voting I chose Chris Johnson, because of his position. We need help at PF right now. Next year Freeland might be an up grade to Chis J, but right now is what I am talking about. down the road some place who knows.
We will get lots of help from either Smith, Williams, or A Johnson but not all three.
Patty may not make the team.
Barron will be gone if Greg makes it back, and if we trade for a big man or get one in free agency. I don’t think Cleaver is ready yet
I am more worried about the health of our rotation players because if they stay healthy the deep bench isn’t a concern, but if not then you have to worry about the deep bench.
BTW, I think CJ will be a rotation player, unless we get another big man until Greg gets established
hg
I voted Johnson because I don't have confidence in our bigs.
Aldridge aside, I fear for Greg and Marcus and their ability to stay on the court.
I also voted Johnson
1) You cant teach 7’
2) We have scorers defense is the way this team reaches the next level.
3)Our centers are old Camby by age, Oden by looks.
4) I just like the kid.
Somebody step up! - Mike Rice
Which scorers?
The comment of we have scorers made me crack up. The only person who is a sure bet on offense is LA, With defense able to collapse on him because we have absolutly no 3 point threat. If portland doesn’t get a premier scorer, Andre Igoudala, Chris Paul, or dare we dream a healthy Brandon Roy then the blazers will be 1 series and done for years. I have been a fan for my whole life and would love to have some of the cool aid some of you are drinking. Barring a miracle, Greg Oden doing his best Bill Walton impression or Brandon Roy miraclous regrowing his meniscus it might be time to blow this version of the blazers up.
Don't need to blow it up when we are so young
Can easily build around LMA and Felton even if we had to trade very one else off. LMA Felton and Batum would be a good group to build around wile trading off Wallace and Camby if they wanted to go that rout.
True!
I agree we can build around LMA and Felton. But everyone else could go. Batum’s value right now might be more in trade then future contribution. But knowing the Blazers front office they will not cash in on it. I still can’t believe we turned down a Chris Paul trade because they wanted Batum.
I know correcting spelling is dorky, but...
“Kool-Aid” is what you drink.
“Cool Aid” is when your friend lends you a leather belt that matches your shoes.
Doers & Makers > Movers & Shakers
by Adam Randall on Sep 21, 2011 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually we have Batum and Wesley Matthews...
both of whom are 35%+ from 3-point range, and now we also have Felton… None of the above are PREMIER scorers, but they are all reasonable 3 point threats. Wallace is a decent scorer himself, but where we actually need the offense is at the Center position so both post players cannot worry about Aldridge completely. How we do this is what is up for debate, and obviously we would need to trade some of that outside talent to get the inside talent, which is the problem. Camby has no offense and GO is Tyson Chandler-esque in his skillset.
Besides, Andre Iguodala is NOT a premier scorer… more along the lines of GW in that better-than-average offense plus premier defense mold.
by avalancheman on Sep 21, 2011 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions
GO is MUCH better the tyson Chandler on offense.
Sure Tyson is more savvy due to experience. Oden is one of the better FT shooting centers and had a decent inside game.
Tyson can do everything GO can, just not as consistently on offense...
but I accede your point. I’m not sure we need more than a healthy GO on this team to be a contender… but that in itself is a pipedream. That level of threat is something Camby just can’t match anymore, but it would be enough to keep teams honest trying to combat LMA.
by avalancheman on Sep 21, 2011 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Gerald Wallace can score.
Wes Mathews can score, LMA can score, every team in the NBA has people who can score. The point of this post was who could be an 8 or 9th man off the bench. Chris Paul is a pipe dream & andre (overated) Iggy is no better then we already have! I’ll keep Wallace & Batum thank you very much. My point was in order to get to the next level (past the 1st round) we need to improve our team defense.
Somebody step up! - Mike Rice
Thats really not what we need
We need a back up for LA, a center and a better scorer starting at the 1 or 2 spot. Hopefully Ray can help us here, and maybe Landy McBob or one of the other FA 4/5s can fix the other part. Unfortunately as long as Oden is on this roster most everything depends on him.
Wait did you really just dismiss Adre Igoudala?
Possibly the best perimeter defender playing today AND state that we need to worry more about our defense rather than offense in the same sentence? Seriously?
The smarter you are, the more likely you are to be tripping balls at any given moment.
Bring Back Dre.
by gtbassett on Sep 21, 2011 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
We have a like button here on BEdge
It’s called rec’ing it ;)
The smarter you are, the more likely you are to be tripping balls at any given moment.
Bring Back Dre.
This was in response to the post above who called Iggy an elite scorer.
In fact Iggy scored just over 14 pts a game last year as a starter on a mediocre eastern conference team. At over 13 mil a yr I would keep Batum who avg. only 1.7 pts less while Gerald Wallace scored at about 1.7 pts. more then Iggy. If you really read my post I said we needed to improve our team D. If you are that big an Iggy fan who would you suggest we give up to make room for that 13 million.
Somebody step up! - Mike Rice
"If you are that big an Iggy fan who would you suggest we give up to make room for that 13 million."
Depth is still good
You have Iggy start the 2….unless BRoy is healthy…..which would be best case because iggy isn’t a shooting guard. Then you have Felton/Smith/Broy at the 1 BRoy/Iggy/Smith/Ewill at the 2 Iggy/wallace at the 3 LMA/Wallace/Camby/CJ at the 4 and LMA/Camby/Oden/CJ at the 5. Depth isn’t that bad.
While I admit it's wrong to think of Iggy as a premeir scorer.
You focusing on that aspect of the game is why you think so lowly of him. While he may score right around the same level as Batum and Wallace, he’s a better defender, has better handles, can dish dimes, and is an excellent rebounder for his position. The advantages that Iggy brings far outweigh whatever lack of scoring punch he has. And check AK1984s trade machine, it’s easy to get Iggy on this team (theoretically).
The smarter you are, the more likely you are to be tripping balls at any given moment.
Bring Back Dre.
I never said I didn't like him.
It’s just that he makes more then Wallace & Batum combined. I thought the whole point of this post was bench depth.Would you trade both Wallace & Batum for Iggy? I for one would not.
Somebody step up! - Mike Rice
No but I would trade Batum and Matthews for Iggy
Depth doesn’t matter if you’re just okay.
The smarter you are, the more likely you are to be tripping balls at any given moment.
Bring Back Dre.
I would love to see a poll of how many Blazer fans would make this trade.
I am obviously a no.
Somebody step up! - Mike Rice
"Depth doesn’t matter if you’re just okay."
Exactamundo!
Removing all of these names from this equation, consolidating depth for finer talent — which in this case would be dealing two 4th/5th options and filler in a package for a legit 2nd/3rd option — is almost always the right move.
"I Am Mine"
What am I missing here?
Wes Mathews as 4th/5th option averaged 1.8 more points per game last year then Iggy who was a main option in Philly. Batum avg. was only 1.7 less then Iggy. You want to give up 28 pts a game for 14. I just think thats crazy. Iggy is a better passer & rebounder then both Blazers but legit 2nd options avg. more then 14 a game.to me thats 6th man numbers!
Somebody step up! - Mike Rice
Oh by the way Andre has a carreer 3 pt. % of .323.
With Portlands slower pace I don’t see his scoring going up as a Blazer.
Somebody step up! - Mike Rice
Once again, you're too hung up on pure scoring and not much else.
Why don’t you go watch the Warriors? They have a lot of good scorers that don’t do much else.
Basketball is a two way game, Iggy is an elite perimeter defender as well as a great ball handler and floor general while still being able to get his in terms of points. Leave the rest of the scoring to LMA, Wallace and Felton, between those 4 we should be fine in scoring points for our starting unit.
The smarter you are, the more likely you are to be tripping balls at any given moment.
Bring Back Dre.
I am all for Defense.
However that lineup better score in transition as you just traded away our few remaining three point shooters! The apposing team is going to pack the paint & dare us to shoot from the perimeter. You have to have a balance & this lineup
Felton
Iggy
Wallace
Aldridge
Camby
will be one of the worst shooting teams in the league, it just wont work.
Somebody step up! - Mike Rice
Trade Felton for Hinrich
You have better 3 point shooting.
Hinrich (40+%)
Iggy (35%)
Wallace (35%)
LMA (decent mid range game/pick and pop)
Camby (well he’s a C, there are very few good jump shooting C’s in the league)
Iggy could handle the brunt of ball handling and distributing skills while Hinrich would be a secondary distributor, while both are great lock down defenders. Sure we wouldn’t be the best shooting team, but we would be awesome defensively,
Plus even if we didn’t get Hinrich, i don’t see how a back court of Felton and Iggy is any worse a combination than Miller and Matthews, you probably get roughly the same when you average out the two guy’s 3 point attempts.
The smarter you are, the more likely you are to be tripping balls at any given moment.
Bring Back Dre.
Iggy would be a better fit for the Warriors they are a fastbreak team(Iggy's forte)
They also need more help on defense ! A Monte Ellis for Iggy trade would make much more sense for both of those teams.
Somebody step up! - Mike Rice
Andre Iguodala can easily average 18 points per game, but he had ...
those p.p.g. numbers dip a bit last season due to Doug Collins’ desire to lower Iggy’s usage and increase his workload as a distributor.
Context is key.
"I Am Mine"
AK do you raelly see him doing that in Portland.
Nate McMillan just got a new contract. My take on Iggy is he needs to be on a team with more pace. I just think its a bad fit. If Andre could hit the 3 at the same rate as Mathews I would be much more inclined to agree but at his age I have never seen someone dramaticly improve there deep range.
Somebody step up! - Mike Rice
"My take on Iggy is he needs to be on a team with more pace."
Why’s that?
Andre Iguodala had his best scoring seasons in Philadelphia under Mo Cheeks, who had the 76ers playing between 90 to 92 possessions per 48 minutes — which is a below average pace — during his few years there.
The last time Iguodala played on a fast-paced team was during the 2004-2005 season as a rookie for Jim O’Brien.
“I would be much more inclined to agree but at his age I have never seen someone dramaticly improve there deep range.”
Ha-ha! Wow, dude, long-range shooting is arguably the easiest thing for a player to improve upon midway through their career.
Two prime examples are Clyde Drexler and Magic Johnson, but many others also improved on 3PT shooting in their late-20s or early-30s.
A current example is Jason Kidd, who didn’t better his efficiency from deep until his mid-30s. After Kidd joined the Mavericks, he saw his long-range shooting skyrocket from the mid-30% to the low-40%.
"I Am Mine"
Wes Mathews was 40% last year his 2nd year in the league.
Nic batum 36% they are both younger & more likely to improve Iggy is at his peak. Oh by the way I like Iggy great player but the fit in Portland is my whole issue. I just feel that trading away our best remaining 3 pt. shooters is a recipe for disaster, didn’t the Mavericks just demonstrate that a team has to have outside shooting to win in the NBA!
Somebody step up! - Mike Rice
Perhaps I read Ceasar1978 wrong...
But I find it hard to consider anyone a “premier scorer” who has never averaged as much as 20 points a game. Iguodala’s career high is19.9 points.
I didn't vote
because I am just mesmerized by how terrible our bench is these days. 2 years removed from being, IMO, one of the top three deepest teams in the league… Depressing list.
Nolan Smith
mature dude. competitive (really tried to pull out a win for “The League” in “Seattle vs. The League”). 4 year duker (whom i root against).
And he seems like he’ll do what Nate tells him… ground his game to help us win
C Johnson gots hops and is high energy, could see him in the top 8,9,10 depending on healthy blazers
Joel Freeland
will probably be coming over after this season. His contract with Unicaja Malaga is over after 2011-12 and he said he is gonna try his chance in the NBA after his contract is over in a recent interview. I am pretty hopeful as he has the potential to back up both C and PF.
Once you go beyond the first 8...
A guy has to have that immediate impact cause he ain’t going to get more than a minute or so to show you something.
In that light, it will come down to foul trouble or injuries to get off the bench.
So my vote goes to Jeff Pendergraph- who we will sign once the NBA puts a deal together.
The Blazers have so many questions...
….but very near the top I think is what do we have coming from the bench. Is Brandon Roy now a bench player? and if he is, how good? A contributing Brandon Roy, a healthy Greg Oden change our depth chart…
But almost everyone outside of our projected starters has a significant question mark next to their role. I think we have too many guards on the bench…and not enough bigs. I’m hopeful and curious about Nolan Smith, Elliot Williams…and I haven’t given up on Luke Babbit.
But overall? The best I can say about The Blazers depth is “I don’t know?”…we may have more than many expect…we may have less. It’s one of the questions only the reality of a playing season will reveal.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
Freeland, if he comes over.
Then Nolan Smith.
The Blazers haven't done the best job in the world of filling out their bench.
If a team is going to be a contender, they need some dependable veterans who can step in when a starter goes down to injury, and I just don’t feel that the Blazers have that at several positions. All they have is a bunch of unproven or not NBA level young players. The Blazers have also drafted poorly at least 7 out of the last 10 years. None of the “Euros” we picked aside from Batum is really going to amount to much, if they ever even don a Blazers uniform. The rest of the guys mentioned except for maybe Williams and Smith are just going to be practice squad fodder. And even Williams and Smith are doubtful to ever ascend to starting player status.
I don't think you can make a call on the "Euros" Joel Freeland and Victor Claver yet
I’m less sure about Claver but from what I’ve seen (which I admit is limited) Freeland looks like an NBA caliber PF/C that could come here and make our team immediately better in a reserve role.
The smarter you are, the more likely you are to be tripping balls at any given moment.
Bring Back Dre.
None of the above
I don’t think any of these guys can help the Blazers much. It’s a depressing list. I guess best case, the odds are in our favor and 2 of the 9 become contributers, but I also would rather have some vetrans on the back of our bench.
by desperationshot on Sep 21, 2011 1:28 PM PDT reply actions
Smith, obviously.
Nate likes smart, versatile players. Nolan can play some combo and not embarrass himself.
CJ is second, but only because this roster is horribly unbalanced: Camby is unreliable and Yao Ming has played more pro basketball over the last several years than Oden has.
Armon is the dark horse. He’ll get few chances, along with a short leash. I just don’t see him working on a team with such a slim margin of error at PG though. He will be a good backup in the NBA though.
Babbitt is just not NBA material. Cardinal and Bonner each have way more feel for the game. It’s going to take a miraculous summer for him to come in and play.
Williams? Who knows. He jumped out of his own knee caps. If that makes him a viable option for the Blazers it must be some kind of irony. Hopefully Brandon is ‘healthy’ and Wesley’s ankle is on straight and we never even see the guy without a three piece suit on. That’s what I say.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Sep 21, 2011 1:50 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Recced for this...
Williams? Who knows. He jumped out of his own knee caps.
Doers & Makers > Movers & Shakers
by Adam Randall on Sep 21, 2011 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
An observation about the poll results
Every player in the poll that has played professional BB, either in the NBA or in Europe, scored very low, except for Chris Johnson. Chris also happens to be the player in the poll with the least amount of minutes playing pro-ball. (138.6 minutes, including his 4 games for Boston)
The only two players that have not played professional BB, scored very high.
The less time a players has in professional BB, the better we like their chance of developing into a productive bench player. Something is not right with the results. Or we have a bunch of bad draft picks on the bench and in Europe.
I did not vote, because I do not have a clue which one of the players in the poll will help the Blazers win.
That's because the players we HAVE seen aren't very good.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Sep 21, 2011 2:34 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I accidentally clicked Smith but I meant to pick Elliott Williams
Williams clearly has great skills and athleticism. I don’t know if he’s going to be strong on defense or a good team player, but he certainly could be exciting. Most of all, he could wind up filling a giant void if Roy can’t play, so there’s an opportunity there.
My favorite on this list is Armon Johnson, though. I think he’s going to come back with improved fundamentals and be at least a good backup and defensive stopper.
Armonster
I’ve been a supporter of his from the get go, and I maintain that he will surprise us. I also think he’s going to make it very tough on the other guards competing for a roster spot—just ask Bayless. I’ve never thought AJ could live up to his own expectations (remember the All Star comment during his first workout?), but I do think he has what it takes to be a solid backup PG for this team, or a starter for a non-playoff team.
Armon has the body, the desire, and the opportunity to make an impact on this team, but if he can’t reign in his TOs he’s at the beginning of a long road through the DL, occasionally washing up on lousy teams to man the point for a spell before shuffling back to the DL or overseas. Really though, I cannot see that happening. Dave is right, he does have that “it” factor. The only question is, when will his skill level catch up to his drive? I’m hoping it happens soon, and I’m hoping it happens in Portland.
Doers & Makers > Movers & Shakers
I think Armon's biggest problem is his head
The guy is an athlete but I don’t think the smarts are there. In my opinion you have to be the smartest guy on the court to be a great PG.
Where do you get the idea that he's dumb?
I’ve seen several interviews with Armon, and he strikes me as quick, funny, and charming. Nicolas Batum is the smartest player on the team, according to the other players, but he certainly shouldn’t be the PG (although his handles aren’t as bad as advertized).
Doers & Makers > Movers & Shakers
by Adam Randall on Sep 21, 2011 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree -- Armon plays smart
Watch the first few games from last year — he pressured the defense and made the right pass consistently. He looked like a pro until the defenses started adjusting. Later in the year, he was really self-conscious and started mishandling the ball. He has a chance to improve his skills during the summer / lockout, and I really hope he’ll come back on another level.
I guess I get that vibe simply from following him on twitter
sure that might sound dumb….but its the closets you can get pro athletes. He rubs me as the really dumb jock type. Nice guy, but I would have to say he is lucky he is athletically gifted.
That's funny.
He had to be coerced into Twitter by Patty Mills.
Are there any pro athlete’s Twits that read like literature? I bet Steve Nash’s are cool…
Doers & Makers > Movers & Shakers
by Adam Randall on Sep 21, 2011 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I think his Caps Lock is stuck...
I just checked out his page, and apart from the ridiculous Caps Lock, it looks like pretty average stuff for a guy that’s spending most of his free time in a gym, which is exactly what he should be doing.
Doers & Makers > Movers & Shakers
by Adam Randall on Sep 21, 2011 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions
He types in all caps because he likes attention
that is a fact from his own mouth…..or i guess fingers….
Patty has created a monster.
And Twitter has created millions of monsters.
Doers & Makers > Movers & Shakers
by Adam Randall on Sep 21, 2011 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Nolan has done an incredibly good job
building a good rep on Twitter.
We can all agree that "Twitter has created millions of monsters."
"I Am Mine"
by AK1984 on Sep 21, 2011 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
About Lady Gaga, I wish I was in New Jersey for last Sunday's Giants game.
I could’ve caught the champagne she spilled like it was raindrops pouring into my mouth.
"I Am Mine"
Smith and Johnson.
Nolan is gonna be good. Arrive on the scene good. He can get to whereve he wants on the floor and he’ll thrive on the spacing in the NBA game. Plus there is no deficits to his game. You just can’t say that about many players.
Chris Johnson had some blocked shots last year that made people’s eyes pop. Sometimes he looks like a newborn deer trying to stand and walk. But has anyone noticed that he actually has a good looking shot. He seems like he’s got it inside him to continue to get better. I think he will make a significant impact on a few games next year as well give Aldridge a breather.
I thought MIlls was our best shooter last year. He doesn’t seem to fit though.
If Roy can accept his role he could be huge off the bench. Don’t know if that will happen though. I think everyone knows that Roy can be a significant part of the Blazers getting over the hump, but it’s not Roy’s team anymore. Everyone but Roy. If he doesn’t accept that management is going to have problems with him.
With Batum coming off the bench, and whichever power forward they sign, this could be the best Blazer bench since 01. That bench was the strength of a Portland team that went to the Western Conference finals.
I don't think we can make conclusions about Roy yet.
Kobe and CP3 are in VERY similar situations and both are still able to play at a high level. I need to see a full season of Roy to decide if he really is going to be as bad as a lot of blazers edge thinks he will be.
Er...
…on some level you’re certainly right that we can’t (safely) make conclusions about Roy. I don’t know much about Paul’s situation but Bryant’s issues, as I understand them, are much less significant - yes he’s got knee issues but my impression is that he’s not missing central bits of material there. I dimly recall some independent (albeit admittedly not necessarily accurate) news source (like ESPN) comparing the two and concluding that, while Bryant seems to be starting a decline, Roy’s likely to be falling off a cliff. :(
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