Weekend Discussion: The BEST Player in the Blazers Smackdown
The Blazers Star Smackdown is officially over and the winner by a clear margin was Brandon Roy, followed by Arvydas Sabonis and LaMarcus Aldridge. Many folks--myself included--were curious about the inclusion of two current (and young) Blazers in the final three. I never would have predicted that, but that's exactly why these experiments are interesting!
Many are pointing to a generational divide as the reason for Aldridge and Roy's great performances but I see it differently. This shows how far the Blazers have come in the last five years. In 2006 you wouldn't have found a current team member getting past the first round of this kind of contest. In fact an entire generation grew up idolizing the past and disparaging the present of this team...for good reason too! The fact that Roy and Aldridge made the final three shows that many Blazer fans have turned the page, not forgetting the great players of the past but ready to celebrate the present and future just as much. That means they've found something worth celebrating. That's actually pretty cool. Names like Buck Williams and Jerome Kersey warm my heart just as much as they ever did but it'd be nice to think that we've moved into an era where memories aren't the strongest (or only) reason to follow the team.
One of the things noted during the voting--built into the system really--was that the Smackdown was a vote for your favorite Blazer stars. This was distinguished from the best Blazer players. Multiple times voters moved a statistically inferior (perhaps inferior by talent as well) player ahead because they liked him better. More power to them! That was the purpose of the exercise. But on this Labor Day weekend let's revisit the Smackdown list in its entirety with an eye on two questions:
- Who is the best player on this list by talent and on-court contributions to the Blazers, leaving aside personal feelings and off-court stuff unless it materially affected the team's play? Remember we're counting only time spent with the Blazers here, not an entire career perspective. Is it still Brandon Roy or is someone else technically a better player?
- If you'd like to, go ahead and name a starting five from this list, paying attention to position and fit together but otherwise using the same criteria from #1, ignoring likes and dislikes, paying attention only to talent and on-court contributions. If this were a video game, which five players from this list would you want starting for your version of the Blazers and why?
Click through to see the list of players. If you'd like to reference their stats you can see the always-wonderful folks at Basketball-Reference.com.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
- Geoff Petrie
- Sydney Wicks
- J.R. Rider
- Scottie Pippen
- Buck Williams
- LaMarcus Aldridge
- Rasheed Wallace
- Steve Johnson
- Brandon Roy
- Lionel Hollins
- Kevin Duckworth
- Rod Strickland
- Damon Stoudamire
- Brian Grant
- Kenny Carr
- Kiki Vandeweghe
- Cliff Robinson
- Arvydas Sabonis
- Jerome Kersey
- Mychal Thompson
- Calvin Natt
- Zach Randolph
- Jim Paxson
- Steve Smith
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1. JR Rider
2. JR Rider, JR Rider, JR Rider, JR Rider, JR Rider.
Ball game.
by Seth Johnston on Sep 2, 2011 10:05 PM PDT via iPhone app reply actions
Ruben Patterson
Ruben Patterson, Ruben Patterson, Ruben Patterson.
kobestopper kobestopper kobestopper.
Should of had Drexler Walton Lucas Porter... I understand why they weren't but I was interested to see how far Roy and LA would of got with them included... And wanted to see who would of won between Drexler and Walton... I woulda chose Drexler of course
by Blazingatrail24 on Sep 3, 2011 5:59 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Honestly, my answer doesn't change.
Just counting their Blazer eras, Brandon Roy is the best player on this list. With the following caveats…
- Rasheed Wallace may have been the most talented player on the list, but had no interest in maximizing it. His talents were also mitigated by having an innate ability to hurt the team with his on-court antics.
- Arvydas Sabonis is the best player on this list if you count their entire career. If you looked at the overall career, and said “Build a team around one player,” I’d point at Arvydas. His Blazer tenure was lots of fun, but falls behind a number of other players without including his international years.
IMO, most underrated: Geoff Petrie, Jim Paxson, Steve Johnson
IMO, biggest snub: Joel Przybilla.
Now for the team. I made a rule that I could not start a player out of natural position (Like having Paxson and Roy starting in the back court together). Seemed like cheating.
I noticed that, much like the actual Blazers, PG is a weakness on this list. Damon dribbed around all the time, and Rod Strickland submarined morale at one point (and can’t hit a three). Lionel Hollins is a solid PG, but from an era where the three pointer was irrelevant, so he wouldn’t translate well. I had a hard time choosing a PG for the team. Nonetheless, here goes:
PG: Damon Stoudamire (He wins out because the team needs three point shooting, though he’d likely be an atypical PG on this team)
SG: Brandon Roy (Seriously, duh. Sorry Jim and Geoff.)
SF: Jerome Kersey (He’s an energy guy. We always need a guy who lays it on the court. Hustle, does some stuff, you know. Scottie Pippen was a strong consideration as a point-forward.)
PF: Buck Williams (This was a seriously tough one. Rasheed, LMA and Zach could extend defenses with jumpers. Steve Johnson and Mychal Thompson could grab the rebounds. So Rasheed was dumped for attitude, Zach because he was a ball hog, LMA isn’t as tough, and Buck would work great with Jerome. But dang. We have options here.)
C: Arvydas Sabonis (Even at his advanced age, he’d be a great fit for this group. Plus he can hit the three and open up the lane for Brandon)
Top three on bench: Scottie Pippen, Jim Paxson, LaMarcus Aldridge. This was tough. Paxson gives us three point shooting and can move away from the ball (Steve Smith was a close second). Pippen gives us a point-forward option and great defense. LMA was a tough call. But he can extend the defense and play two positions. I was honestly surprised when I added LMA as the third player.
There are definite weaknesses. Perimeter defense is ugly, for example. But this would be a fun team to watch.
I'll go with this answer
Saved me the trouble to type.
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
Talent-wise Brandon still wins easily.
But yes, Sabas would be the choice based on his full career.
I’d take Strickland at PG but otherwise I’d go with your other starters. For three off the bench I’d take Pippen, Petrie (the best 3-pt shooter on the list – even though he never scored an NBA 3-pt shot), and Wallace (in his Blazer prime of course).
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Sep 3, 2011 1:29 AM PDT up reply actions
The interesting thing is the best fit at PG wasn't even part of the Smackdown (i.e., Kenny Anderson).
"I Am Mine"
If we expand the list, I'd also take Danny Ainge at PG over Damon.
Ainge played behind Porter and Drexler as a combo guard but he still averaged 5.3 assists per 36 minutes for the Blazers in 2 seasons, and put up about 18 points per 36 minutes. I think 36 minute numbers are appropriate to discuss in this case since Ainge was only playing about 20 minutes a game behind a couple of All-stars in Porter and Drexler, but he averaged about 36 minutes in the preceding years with Sacramento and Boston and had about 6 assists a game in those years to go with about 17 points a game. So his lower production per game in PDX was pretty much simply a matter of getting fewer minutes behind the best SG and PG in Blazer history.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Sep 3, 2011 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, Danny Ainge would be a complementary fit as an off guard who can spread the floor ...
next to a high usage shooting guard like Brandon Roy and a defensive-minded point forward like Scottie Pippen.
"I Am Mine"
Excellent post, but
I think you could put Paxson and Roy in the lineup together, IF you pick Pippen instead of Kersey. Remember, when he was with Chicago, Pippen effectively ran the offense, not the PG’s or MJ.
The two slots for me that were absolute no-brainers were Sabonis (with apologies to Kevin Duckworth) and Roy (with apologies to no one).
Interestingly (to me at least), I might well select Wallace as the best player out of the group, but I would put Buck in the starting lineup. To me Wallace edges out Roy because Roy has historically missed too much time due to injuries.
I don’t know that I put LMA that high on the list, because it wasn’t until last season that he stopped playing soft. I’m still anxious to see what he does next season, whenever that may be.
I think you could put Paxson and Roy in the lineup together, IF you pick Pippen instead of Kersey. Remember, when he was with Chicago, Pippen effectively ran the offense, not the PG’s or MJ.
Yep I considered that. But like I noted, I thought the spirit of the contest was to choose people in their rightful position, so using two SG’s in the starting guard spots felt like cheating, even if I could justify it with Scottie bringing the ball up.
Damon at PG and not Terry Porter?
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain_4.html#ixzz1IE4sPu16
by Tyler Durrden on Sep 4, 2011 7:40 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Nvmd, didn't see the list
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain_4.html#ixzz1IE4sPu16
by Tyler Durrden on Sep 4, 2011 7:44 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Where is BILLY RAY BATES???
Have you seen Youtube videos vs. 76ers and Sonics??? WOW!!! He step up his game BIG TIME during the PLAYOFFS!!! HE led THIS Trail Blazers in scoring in his first two years in the league in the playoffs. Dennis Johnson the “BEST” defender in the NBA couldn’t keep track of him!!! Billy ran over people and dunk them like a POSTAL!!!
Chemistry:
Scootie Pippen Point Forward (he did brought the ball up the floor and ran the team)
Geoff Petrie Guard (he can shoot long long range; he was healthy SIX YEARS)
Jerome Kersey-SF (he was MISTER HUSTLE; he will give us inside scoring)
Buck Williams-PF (he will defend the BEST Power Forward the League; he give us boards)
Arvydas Sabonis-C (he and Pippen can play a two man game as Geoff Petrie will be in the weak side; Kersey can cut to the basket with an ally-loop!)
Lionel Hollins is the ONLY the PG I trust on THIS LIST. I did saw Jim Paxson play Point Guard with Drexler on the team. I want to see Brandon Roy play the Point Guard the next couple of years.
THIS team need Hustle over scoring; sorry KIKI Vandeweghe!
Duckworth will be GREAT with KIKI, Hollins, Paxson, and Rasheed Wallace 2nd team.
Bestus or Favoritest?
Oddly when I evaluate the difference between “Best” or “Favorite” which I personally apply a slightly different set of personal criteria, looking at that list, I would put Brandon Roy at the top.
I think Pre-Knee deteration Brandon was ontrack to become one of the best Blazer’s ever. He had amazing skills coupled with a competitive spirit and desire to be a leader. Brandon might of been the best on that list.
I’d probably go:
#1. Brandon Roy
#2. I’d probably put Rasheed. His talent was undeniable. The reason he doesn’t break to the top of the list IMO is because he actually had “negative” leadership skills. But if you don’t attach team chemistry or leadership skills to the evaluation of “Best” then Rasheed could be considered one of the best.
#3. I’m going to take what is admittedly a blind shot for me and say Geoff Petrie. His career with The Blazers was short , his N.B.A. career short. Furthermore, I was too young to really have any memory of him as a player. But all I have heard from those old enough to remember is that Petrie was absolutely a great player. He might even deserve higher, but without personal observation I can’t do much more than give him an honorable mention 3rd.
Anyway, I think there IS a clear difference or should be a clear difference between “Best” and “Favorite”. I think picking “favorites” is harder. Williams, Grant, Kersey, Thompson..it becomes very difficult.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
Fun concept; I'll go with only the players I know since 1991
Strickland, Roy, Cliffy, LMA, Sabas.
Kersey, Stoudamire, Buck, Duck, and (not on the list) Ainge off the bench. No rent-a-players like Pippen allowed. Wallace and Randolph were talented but not so good at the team concept.
Steve Goodman lives.
Kersey, Stoudamire, Buck, Duck, and (not on the list) Ainge off the bench. No rent-a-players like Pippen allowed.
I don’t get it.
The Blazers acquired Scottie Pippen to help them win a title. They reached the conference finals, after which he stayed three more years, and even discussed coaching after retirement. He left at the end of the contract to retire with the Bulls.
The Blazers acquired Danny Ainge to help them win a title. He stayed two years, and they reached the Finals, after which he immediately bolted from the Blazers for the Suns, who were looking at a Finals run of their own.
How, specifically, is Pippen a rent-a-player, but Ainge is not?
Yeah, Danny Ainge was definitely a veteran rental.
A good veteran rental, sure. Yet, still a rental nonetheless.
"I Am Mine"
'Cause my memory is shoddy
If y’all can remember vividly when the Blazers actually had a shot at a championship, my congrats to ya. I remembered it wrong, and Ainge was a rent-a-player (albeit from Oregon, I think.) Whoops. Since we blew the game 7 lead in 2000 something like a zillion billion people have died or gotten horrible diseases, and we all will be next. Glad your memory is better than mine. Actually, no, take that back, I’m horribly jealous.
Steve Goodman lives.
Favorites - not untouchable 4
PG: Hollins
SG: Roy
SF: Kersey
PF: Buck
C: Sabas
Best Bench: Petrie, Wicks, Lloyd Neal ( not on list ), Fat, Duck, Pippen
Best to never put on a game jersey: Moses
Best Coach: Dr. Jack
You can observe a lot just by watching.
-- Yogi Berra
by Rick C in Tigard on Sep 3, 2011 10:22 AM PDT reply actions
Almost entirely agree
I wouldn’t squeeze Hollins into the unsuitable PG position. On the other hand, I think I would squeeze Pippen into the unsuitable SG position. I’d go with:
PG: J.R. Rider (best PG available)
SG: Scottie Pippen
SF:Jerome Kersey
PF: Buck Williams
C: Arvydas Sabonis
Roy may be the best single player on the whole list, but I worry that he takes the game away from the rest of the team, apart from one guy camping on the 3-point line.
PG – Damon – ideally this is where Porter would be but he’s not an option.
SG – Roy
SF – Pippen – Kersey the better player but I don’t think would fit well with Roy.
PF – Sheed
C- Sabonis
All of these guys could compliment a single star team. Sheed plays elite level defense, passes very well and is willing, rebounds and is a match up nightmare for his ability to stretch the defense. Sabonis fairly similar to that of Sheed. Kersey is another solid defender and slasher giving the team more diversity. The only question there is how well could he play next to Brandon? This is why I’d opted for Pippen at the 3. Even at his age he could still play good defense, but this would also give Portland another ball handler and somebody that could help spread the floor. Damon by default, the other PG’s weren’t great shooters and even though this team is loaded with them, I just keep envisioning the issues Roy and Miller had together.
I think this club would whoop ass. It’s the late 90’s – early 2000’s team but with a legit closer.
Bench
One really good scoring option in the backcourt with Paxon. Two great hustle and defending options with Kersey and Buck.
This team has size, rebounding, defensive prowess, diverse scoring ability and great passing(very underrated attribute).
The best player is Brandon Roy
Starters:
PG: Rod Strickland
SG: Brandon Roy
SF: Jerome Kersey
PF: Buck Williams
C: Arvydas Sabonis
Two-Man Bench:
SG/SF: Steve Smith
PF/C: LaMarcus Aldridge
Best and favorite does not change my vote for the top three
Roy
Sabonis
Aldridge
For a starting five:
Roy
Hollins
Kersey
Sabonis
Aldridge
I have seen each one of the players on the list play multiple games. The current team is at least the second best talent the Blazers have ever had (and more talented than 1977-78.) The key to this team is still Greg Oden and if Oden is healthy this team can be tops. Hollins was really smart (it shows in his coaching which has been more succesful than Porter’s jobs) and was fast and strong. Kersey is my among all-time favorite players. He brought such energy and athleticism to the game. Sabonis is still the best center we have had (until Greg gets his legs back). Roy and Aldridge need no further support.
For those vocal few who feel Brandon Roy is a drag on the team, this exercise might slow down their thinking a bit. Without Roy being here we are not winning the trophy. I know all about the salary cap fears but Brandon is not, in my opinion, done by any means.
Sheed all day
Followed by Roy.
Disclaimer: everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazersedge.
The most talented was probably Sheed.
Maybe Roy when he was still good.
Starting Five
PG: Scottie Pippen (this is mostly about suffocating the other team’s point)
SG: Brandon Roy
SF: Jerome Kersey
PF: Rasheed Wallace
C: LaMarcus Aldridge (sorry Sabas)
6th man: Kiki Vandeweghe (Vandeweghe subs for Pippen precisely at the moment this Blazer team builds a thirteen point lead (Twenty is not arrogant enough; this team acts like its over at 13). At that juncture, the strategy transitions into a three-point distance contest between Kiki and Roy, with everyone else choosing runways for put back dunks. When either Vandeweghe or Rasheed scores, the PA announcer chirps “Kiki!” as annoyingly as possible, with the point being to annoy the other team and Rasheed simultaneously, seeing who cracks first. If Rasheed gets a tech for throwing a towel at either the announcer or Kiki, Kiki gets sent back to the bench—proving that Rasheed is always right. After Kiki gets re-benched, the announcer just says “I made that” every time Rasheed scores.)
by yes,afteryoulowertherimto9' on Sep 5, 2011 12:16 AM PDT reply actions
All-time Blazer team
PG Porter
SG Drexler
SF Kersey
PF Lucas
C Walton
Bench
Damon,Petrie,Roy,Wicks,Kiki,Sabonis,M.Thompson,Paxson.
Coach Ramsey

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