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Blazersedge Mailbag Thursday June 30th, 2011 (Semi-Cranky Edition)

We're catching up on mailbag questions today.  We had several pre-draft submissions asking about the draft which I never got to.  For the record my answer to all of those is that the Blazers will skip over Kenneth Faried and instead select combo guard Nolan Smith from Duke and probably pull off some kind of Andre Miller trade.  As far as the non-draft and post-draft questions, read on...

Why are you so negative about the team all of a sudden?

Sigh...  I hate this kind of thing.  When you say something that goes against the grain to the positive people call you a homer fan optimist.  When you say something that goes against the grain the other way people call you a negative-Nelly pessimist.  Trying to attribute statements you don't agree with to somebody's emotional state or slapping them with a broad (and untrue) label just seems...silly. 

Here's the deal:  When Charlotte had Raymond Felton I figured he was a serviceable guard but did not go gaga over his contributions or where he led the team.  Neither did Charlotte, as they allowed him to become an unrestricted free agent and sign with New York.  When New York got Raymond Felton I did not think he was going to lift them to the next level.  He did well there, but ultimately the Knicks agreed because they traded him to Denver.  When Felton came to Denver I did not think he was going to revolutionize their roster and style of play.  Neither did they, as they traded him to Portland.  Now that he's come to Portland my assessment of him is supposed to change, just because he's a Blazer now?  He's the same guy he always was: a good, not great, point guard with some legit skills and equally legit flaws.  How is that any more negative of an assessment than I had six months ago, other than not automatically buying into the company line that the Blazers have finally found their PGOTF...rather needing to see it happen on the court first?  In fact it's not that much more of a negative assessment than I had of Andre Miller's future in Portland, which I deemed short despite his generally good play and plenty of protests to the contrary.

Continuing:   If the Sacramento Kings were sporting a Top 8 of Aldridge, Wallace, Matthews, Felton, Camby, Batum, Roy, and Oden my assessment would be that they could be scary if they ever got fully healthy but that was probably not going to happen so they'll be a nice enough team that probably will bow out in the early playoff rounds again.  I'd probably opine that to change their fate they either needed a recovery miracle or a solid kick in the pants roster-wise.  None of the moves on draft day would qualify as a kick in the pants.  Again...I'm supposed to change that assessment just because the uniforms say "Portland" and not "Sacramento"?  That would be disingenuous.  Nor is it that negative of an evaluation given the circumstances.  Nobody said the Blazers would stink.  They just didn't make enough of a move to change their probable destiny, leaving themselves relying on Roy and Oden again.

Why don't you like Nolan Smith?

OK, you can stop now.  Really.  

Nobody dislikes Nolan Smith.  Before anointing him as the Next Great Get (or even a solid rotation player) we need to see how Smith is different than Sebastian Telfair, Jarrett Jack, Jerryd Bayless, Sergio Rodriguez, Petteri Koponen, and perhaps Elliot Williams...all of whom were first-round point or combo-guard picks and none of whom have stuck with the team (or in the case of Williams, played for the team) so far.  This organization has a history of picking point guards who don't pan out.  The onus is on them and Smith to show that this time is different.

You really think this team should scrap everything and start from scratch?  You're crazy!

Nowhere have I suggested that the Blazers should start over.  In fact I don't think they can without suffering major losses.  They'd have to cut Roy through an amnesty clause, not re-sign Greg Oden after next year, and probably lose Camby and Felton as well.  Given that multiple teams will be looking to dump salary in the coming year they'd have a hard time trading any of those players for the cap space or small contracts necessary to rebuild, so they'd pretty much be stuck dropping them for nothing.  That's just not feasible.  The Blazers have one course forward:  keep this roster basically intact, look for another advantageous trade involving Camby, Batum, or maybe eventually Felton, and pray that Greg Oden re-ups with the team long term and stays healthy for a while.  I'm not sure what that next trade would be but the Blazers need to have their ear to the ground for it.

What happens to Greg Oden now?

Best guess:  He explores restricted free agency, finds no offers high enough to make him leap, then accepts the one-year qualifying offer and becomes an unrestricted free agent next summer.  Portland is praying for him to get a lowball multi-year offer from somewhere for them to match.

Do the Blazers have a chance at Chris Paul?

Props to Shibo, one of our Blazersedge readers from China, for this question.  Short answer:  No.  Longer answer:  Nooooooo.

Click through for questions about draft alternatives, international hostages, possible point guards, Portland's youngsters, trading Brandon Roy, and more.

Star-divide

Could the Blazers have made a different move in the draft, perhaps getting an established point guard or center by packaging #21, #51, Miller, Fernandez, and/or Batum?

Of those Batum is the only asset of real interest.  I can understand the Blazers not wanting to move him for anything less than a sure thing, as he's the only thing standing between them and having zero depth beyond their starting five.  Point guard and center are highly valued positions around the league and that collection of players, particularly withholding Batum, wasn't going to get much done.  People talk about salary dumps but teams are notoriously reluctant to drop rare players for salary relief alone.  Fan bases tend to object...strenuously.

The recent Koponen quote about feeling like a hostage motivates this question:  Are USA players and international players treated differently.  It was my understanding that an American player could sit out for 2 years (or so) and then be redrafted if he so chose; is that correct?  Is an international player drafted for life?  By holding his rights and preventing him from trying out for an NBA team aren't the Blazers looking like the greedy and bad guys in this?  

According to the famous Larry Coon, a team retains the rights to any player who plays with a non-NBA team until one year after that player's obligation to the non-NBA team ends.  In other words an international player would have to stop playing basketball for a year to divorce himself from the team who drafted him.  Or, you know, he could take the traditional route:  just play well enough to get called over.

The Koponen situation didn't make the Blazers look any more greedy than any other team who drafts a player but doesn't put him on the roster immediately.  In order to play in this league you have to impress a specific team or, at minimum, impress another team enough that they'll trade for your rights.  If you can't do that your prospective slot is going to go to someone who can.

What do you think of Mario Chalmers as a possible addition to the Blazers?

Aside from his overall shooting percentage and the fact that he hasn't been the primary ball-handler on his own team, he's not bad, assuming you were considering him for a reserve player.  He's not the definitive move that the Blazers need, though, and he'd probably cost too much to acquire as a back-up.

I hope the blazers hold on to Chris Johnson, I think this guy can learn a lot from Camby and would you say that he is better then the centers available in this draft? I would be really interested to hear what you have to say about Portland's 2010 draft picks as well: Williams,Babbitt and Johnson, seems to me they did not fare as well as the 2009 crop.

They didn't.  There's some hope for both Johnsons yet.  The Blazers have opted to retain Williams and Babbitt.  The name missing in there is Patty Mills who so far has made more impact than any of them.  But overall it's not a promising crop.  The centers available in the 2011 draft wouldn't have been any more promising.  The Blazers are pretty empty as far as young guys to bring into the rotation.  They have some potential but few bankable assets.

It would be impressive to hear your impressions in synthesis on why Blazer fans in particular, are SO passionate about our team (as was pointed out by many personalities during the playoffs) and how we are connected to one another so tightly through a professional sports team which should not have such a hold on the emotions of rational adults the way that it does.    

It's a complex question, one which I might tackle in a separate post this summer.  Here's my short, generalized guess.  Initially the Blazers captured the imagination of the city by giving Portland an identity and national status.  The underdog made good.  The Blazers made all of Portland's citizens world champions.  The resulting bond and civic pride elevated that generation and became part of Portland's DNA.  Those genes have long since dispersed and the Blazers no longer fill that role or bind people as strongly.  However modern communication (read: the internet) allows those disparate folks with even a shred of the DNA to gather and grow it.  The Blazers are no longer constant bus stop conversation but the discussion here will never stop as long as there's a team.  The perception of passion that results from that conversation makes it seem important and thus re-ignites that old passion for others as well.

I love basketball, but I see headlines like "Union: Players, owners $7 billion apart" and like every other good proletariat, it really turns me off. How do I avoid being bitter and cynical about the economics of sports?    

Roll your eyes, plug your ears for the next six months, and poke your head out again when the games start.  Where there's money there will be greed and there's plenty of money in sports.  I don't think it's worse than politics or any corporate endeavor.  If Blazersedge made $1 billion annually our formerly-gracious (and irreplaceable) mods would soon be demanding $10 million salaries.   If you're going to get mad at someone, though, get mad at the owners until they show evidence of clear and drastic revenue sharing amongst each other.  To my mind they have to do everything they can internally to solve the problem before laying it at the feet of their employees.  They haven't so far.

Drafting yet another combo guard...should we take this as a sign that the Blazers are either going to use the amnesty clause on Roy or are planning on trading one of our many, many guards?    

No.  Nolan Smith is not on the same planet as even an injured Brandon Roy.  The decision to keep or cut Roy will be made irrespective of Smith's presence.  I'm not sure any of those many, many other guards have much trade value.  The drafting of Smith is more indicative that those other guards aren't working out and some of them will be cut.

 If we are, in fact, one injury to a big man away from total disaster, how is it that much different than the Spurs (who happened to end up with the #1 pick- Tim Duncan) when David Robinson wasn't completely healthy?  I realize that we had that lightning in a bottle once and drafted Greg Oden, which has yet to work out injury-free but a season-ending (non career threatening) injury to Aldridge would likely leave the Blazers a very high pick again but still with the franchise player on the roster, assumption being made that he is healthy enough to finish out his career the following year.    

Answering your question as is, the chances of getting the #1 overall pick, let alone that pick being a guy of Tim Duncan's caliber, are small enough that the situation cannot be considered analogous.

Correcting a little, I think you're misunderstanding the Blazers' injury issues.  The threat isn't a catastrophic injury destroying Portland's season.  This isn't a matter of future speculation, rather dealing with present reality.  Brandon Roy can't play a whole season even if he participates in all 82 games.  Greg Oden won't play for much more than half a season.  Marcus Camby is wearing down and Gerald Wallace routinely misses 10 games per year.  Plus, due to lack of return on draft picks and the recent consolidation trades, Portland has nobody reliable in the hopper to replace those players' minutes.  That leaves incredible pressure on the remaining four rotation players to play huge minutes.  That's going to result in fatigue and perhaps more nagging injuries, either of which would bring their production below 100%...something the Blazers can't afford.

It'd be great if the Blazers could move Camby for someone younger and more reliable, relieving at least one of the pressure points.  That may be easier said than done if you're trying to do it without losing even more depth.

There seems to be plenty of talk about dumping Roy and/or picking up a big man in a trade or as a free agent.  One name that I haven't heard thrown out there (and I haven't looked too much into his injury) is Antawn Jamison (besides the Cavs just drafted a PF at #4 and have JJ Hickson).  Why wouldn't that be a place to send a Brandon Roy who may have some decent years left, if one is so inclined to dump him?     

Nobody but nobody is going to want to pick up Roy's contract.  There's a new cap number coming and it's going to be small.  Brandon Roy's contract is going to be a millstone around the neck.  Non-contending teams are going to be scrambling to get as low under the cap as they can, both for the sake of flexibility and picking up any amnesty clause cast-offs that might be available.

You can send questions to blazersub@yahoo.com if you wish.  Please be patient for them to be answered.  Also please put "Mailbag" in the subject line to make them easier to sort out.

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com) 

Comment 292 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Not really

He is in the same boat as BRoy. It is a race to the finish and I am not talking a sprint.

hg

by BBK on Jun 30, 2011 6:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

No chance Paul signs with pdx

Who was the last high-profile free-agent to sign with the blazers? Exactly, portland can’t attract (or pay) a high profile free-agent. Thats just the straight truth and not a knock against the town. Its a great place to live and play for, but few players really want to come here. The city is nowhere near as attractive as many other NBA cities in the eyes of a young high-profile NBA player.

by B_B on Jun 30, 2011 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

it will be different after the lockout though

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'd say Pippen

But then he was getting older and we already had a pretty legit team for him to join. As far as Paul goes, I don’t think anybody, even those saying they want him, really believes that he would just come walking and and wanna play in Portland.

by hoodieNation on Jun 30, 2011 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wesley Matthews - to answer your question - last summer

Now I freely admit he is not as high profile as LeBron, Wade and Bosh. But he is playing better than Boozer or maybe even Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay last year (other FA that might be considered high-profile.

Portland can attract free agents but not of the superstar type. Of course Portland cannot afford any of those either (cap space).

by lee3022 on Jun 30, 2011 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

wesley matthews is not high profile

in fact, you’d be hard pressed to find a single casual nba fan who knows who he is.

also matthews did not play as well as rudy gay last year. i’m not sure what you mean by that. gay did get injured but he’s been healthy his whole career and for the games he did play, he was better than matthews.

carlos boozer by any reasonable measure was very good last year. he certainly wasn’t as good as he was the previous year in utah but the matthews is better statement is pretty dubious. Boozer but up 18 and 9 with a couple assists and shot over 50% from the field. he was injured, as usual, but you have to essentially count on that with him.

as for joe johnson, the wesley comparison is a bit more even but given the absurd contract johnson has, every team in the league would pick matthews.

by colinmarsh on Jun 30, 2011 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wesley Matthews was about as low profile as it got going into last summer's free agency frenzy.

"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."

by AK1984 on Jun 30, 2011 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think you're right about the Oden projection

And it’s going to suck if he walks and kills it for another team.

"Coach said to always be careful around Greg, because Greg costs a lot and even the slightest amount of basketball can damage him." -- The Onion

by RedUniInLA on Jun 29, 2011 10:16 PM PDT reply actions  

I don't believe Felton is the PGOTF

Even if everyone else thinks he is. I believe he will last 2 years with the team max. The problem is, he is not really an upgrade over Miller. He is a younger with less experience. Not exactly what Portland needs.

by hessprefold on Jun 29, 2011 10:27 PM PDT reply actions  

Because they didn't want Faried

Disclaimer: everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazersedge.

by pualo on Jun 30, 2011 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's both unusual and scary how closely my analysis of our team and players now match yours.

I’ll have to re-examine my opinions :)

It’s no fun agreeing with those in charge.

"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jun 29, 2011 10:33 PM PDT reply actions  

I love you Dave, but you have been debbie downer.

I think felton is a great fit. We can finally push the ball and have a pg that can shoot. Sure hes not perfect but better fit for our young crew. were not gonna land an allstar this summer. Maybe we wont win a championship next year, but it’ll still be a fun team to watch. I get being realistic about our team, but what’s the fun if your not into it? we’re still a contender and that’s how people outside of portland view us. Sometimes the travel of getting to greatness is as entertaining as the outcome.

by RipCity Survivor on Jun 29, 2011 10:41 PM PDT reply actions  

Not a contender

Not really even close … and no, people around the country (knowledgeable ones at least) don’t see us that way

by nikolokolus on Jun 29, 2011 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Besides Miami we gave the eventual champions one of the sternest tests.

Moisture is the essence of wetness, and wetness is the essence of beauty.

by B-Lazer on Jun 30, 2011 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Um, I'm sorry

I know that we would all like to think that just because Miami was the only other team to take Dallas to 6 games that somehow that means we’re actually a contender, but it doesn’t.

In fact, it means absolutely richard.

by blazer_tk on Jun 30, 2011 2:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Can you see into the future?

Noone thought dallas would take it all… so don’t be too critical.

Moisture is the essence of wetness, and wetness is the essence of beauty.

by B-Lazer on Jun 30, 2011 7:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

The great bias knowledgeable one's picked Miami to win the Championship

Over the Lakers, not the Mavs. The rest of the knowledgeable one’s predicted the Bulls and Rose as the finishers.

My question is, what does the knowledgeable ones, got to do with anything. The game is played on the court where injuries and chemistry happens.

hg

by BBK on Jun 30, 2011 6:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

48 win team with one all-star and some role-players

That’s not a “tomato can,” but does that sound like a contender to you?

Personally, I think that sounds more like the Bucks or the Hornets (hint: they aren’t contenders either).

by nikolokolus on Jun 30, 2011 7:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Much better than either Bucks or Hornets

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I agree.

In the off season, all we can do is speculate, and I understand Dave’s hesitancy to project enthusiam, soley because that’s what we or anyone else would want to hear. The thing is, speculation in basketball only goes so far. Who, except for for “homer” dallas fans and writers predicted that Dallas would knock off/dismantle the HEAT in the Finals? The point is, unless you’re the Lakeshow or a Heat fan then you don’t have a solid reason to be excited about the upcoming season. The reality is though, we do get excited and when our writers are full on bemoaning a top ten team, our top top ten team, it doesn’t reflect the optimism of the typical fan.

by Caurelius on Jun 30, 2011 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't understand why people think the tempo will change because of Felton

This team played slow, boring basketball before Dre was here. Hmmm……

by lil'stink on Jun 30, 2011 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah, the idea that the reason the Blazers play slow is anything but Nate is preposterous.

long live the jd.

by jksnake99 on Jun 30, 2011 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

AK1984

Can you please post that list which ranks NBA rank in fastbreak points under McMillan coached teams. In a dozen years, they’ve finished 27 or lower like 6 or 7 times, never finshing higher than 17th. And felton is going to change this how exactly? By eating more cupcakes?

The fact is this team isnt running until Nate totally changes his coaching philosophy or stops coaching this team.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Venomous much?
By eating more cupcakes?

I feel like you’ve talked yourself into a greater dislike of Felton than you ever had initially. Dude is more athletic than Dre.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Felton is not that athletic actually

At least not anymore. And for the tenth time – I don’t hate Felton. I just agree what Dave said and we should have explored different options. I wish Felton well, but I can’t help myself from counteracting the certain Kool Aid drinkers when they say stuff to the effect of “Portland’s really going to run more this year” or “Felton is really going to space the floor and open up things for LMA”. It’s not going to happen under McMillan!

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

You tear down Felton constantly to make your case

If you don’t hate the dude, then I’m awfully confused with the way you have argued your case.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

tom is to Dre as zues is to Ray

by hoodieNation on Jun 30, 2011 7:47 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

"tom is to Dre"

Nothing can match that.

"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."

by AK1984 on Jun 30, 2011 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've argued my case this way because some people say insane things like I quoted above

When that happens, I can;t help throw cold water on the situation. Maybe some people don;t want that – I get it. Still, I can’t help myself. I like to talk in real terms not pie-in-the-sky fantasy, which is why I think Dave candid opinions are very refreshing. You have to tell it like it is.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’ve argued my case this way because some people say insane things like I quoted above

So what you are saying is you have made your argument more extreme than it would have been in order to balance out the positive side of the argument? And again, your “real terms” and not “pie-in-the-sky fantasy” is subjective, so while it may be those things to you, that doesn’t make it those things to others or necessarily the truth. Same on my side.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jul 1, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

Here's how Nate McMillan's teams have fared in pace factor (i.e., possessions per 48 minutes).

2000-2001: 91.6 Pace Factor (16th in NBA)*
2001-2002: 89.0 Pace Factor (24th in NBA)
2002-2003: 88.0 Pace Factor (27th in NBA)
2003-2004: 89.9 Pace Factor (15th in NBA)
2004-2005: 87.9 Pace Factor (27th in NBA)
2005-2006: 87.6 Pace Factor (28th in NBA)
2006-2007: 88.3 Pace Factor (29th in NBA)
2007-2008: 87.9 Pace Factor (29th in NBA)
2008-2009: 86.6 Pace Factor (30th in NBA)
2009-2010: 87.7 Pace Factor (30th in NBA)
2010-2011: 87.9 Pace Factor (30th in NBA)

*Paul Westphal coached first 15 games.

"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."

by AK1984 on Jun 30, 2011 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

There it is, thanks

Now, is there any further doubt that we’re suddenly going to become a running team now that Felton has entered stage left?

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

There is no doubt

That we remain a slow paced team. The strange thing IMO is that Nate doesn’t just admit he’s hugely turnover adverse (which isn’t necessarily a bad thing) and says every year he wants to run more when he clearly isn’t willing to deal with any increase in TOVs that may result.

by aces_dad on Jun 30, 2011 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

He wants to run without turnovers

When he finds out that his personnel isn’t able to do that …he picks low turnovers over increased pace

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Simply, Nate McMillan wants to minimize turnovers in any and all circumstances.

If he truly wanted to run — which he doesn’t, as what he says about running is empty rhetoric — then Seattle would’ve run when the low-risk Antonio Daniels was its point guard during the mid-2000s or Portland would’ve run when the low-risk Steve Blake was it’s point guard during the late-2000s.

"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."

by AK1984 on Jun 30, 2011 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree with the minimize TOV statement

IMO for Nate, TOV reduction >>> anything else including running more.

I’m not familiar with the Seattle time, but I just don’t believe he wants to run more or it’s a matter of personnel, rather his philosophy. And again, I’m not saying that is necessarily a bad thing.

I just wish he’d acknowledge it and build a defensive philosophy to match. If we’re not fast breaking forget about SOS (which I guess is designed to create turnovers?) and focus on reducing opp eff rates.

by aces_dad on Jul 1, 2011 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, the defensive system he uses is built to force turnovers.

The problem, however, is it allows opponents to score rather efficiently.

In essence, Nate’s philosophies both offensively and defensively are based a lot on turnover differential.

"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."

by AK1984 on Jul 1, 2011 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

I hate to be captain Obv ...

But the best turnover creaters are the ‘freak’ athletes that PDX doesn’t seem to have a lot of.

Since Batum/Aldridge/Matthews/Wallace are all quality defenders I feel we’d be better off focusing more on lower opp % than the higher risk TO, especially since it doesn’t seem like we’ve forced nearly enough to justify the opp eff rates we’ve allowed.

by aces_dad on Jul 1, 2011 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

It must be said however

That the TO differential DID win us quite a few games last year. In several instances, we won games where the team shot a lower FG%, hit fewer 3’s and got less Offensive REB than the opposition, but we still won because the opposition had 8 or 9 fewer TO’s than we did. I remember this quite clearly and commented as such.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jul 1, 2011 6:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

I also remember hearing some little known stat from somewhere

saying TO Differential was a very good indicator of wins/losses….I wished i remembered where i saw it

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jul 1, 2011 7:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Winning a basketball game is all about the four factors.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/factors.html

"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."

by AK1984 on Jul 1, 2011 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, the odd part is he won't cop to being anti-turnovers.

http://bkref.com/tiny/zgXDN

"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."

by AK1984 on Jun 30, 2011 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

yep, Nate should really just say he places a premium on ball security. Its not a bad thing.

long live the jd.

by jksnake99 on Jun 30, 2011 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree.

Why talk about running more when it’s not in his DNA?

by aces_dad on Jul 1, 2011 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

We can still run more opportunistically though

it’s not like the bar is set high

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jul 1, 2011 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

andre miller can push the ball

but he didn’t here in portland, because that’s not what the team does. the blazers will continue to be the slowest paced team in the league unless they suddenly become completely uncompetitive, they change coaches or both.

people who think we’re going to start running more need to remember that we’ve heard that every year, it’s the classic summer line but it’s not coming true.

by colinmarsh on Jun 30, 2011 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

dave, i don't think anybody expects mike barrett level gushing from you.

i think some of us were just surprised how down you were on the draft day moves, that’s all. you seem really disappointed, maybe you had some hot intel on something they passed up or missed out on – if so, do tell! :)

by SaveOden on Jul 1, 2011 3:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

"Semi-Cranky Edition."

Haha, thanks for acknowledging what people are semi-saying you’re feeling towards the home team these days.

llbdll
   ///
((()))
   ///
OMG!

by Oh. Em. Gee. on Jun 29, 2011 10:42 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

...

still love you though. Your prob right, but that’s what makes me mad

by RipCity Survivor on Jun 29, 2011 10:43 PM PDT reply actions  

"There's a new cap number coming and it's going to be small". I think that's true, but a few years in the future.

2-4. If the cap is instantly much smaller and harder, some of the most popular teams would be forced to “blow it up” and their owners won’t sign such a deal. It will gradually go down and get harder, not over night.

Still, I’d agree that no team will want to trade for Roy’s contract, unless maybe someone like Orlando with Arenas who is in an almost equal situation in terms of contract “albatrossiness” and health concerns. And for that matter, the Blazers seem unwilling to trade Roy, and I’d also venture to say they would have a hard time using an amnesty clause on him even if it was their only chance to gain flexibility.

by Norsktroll on Jun 29, 2011 11:02 PM PDT reply actions  

That may be the most gut-wrenching decision.

Everything the team is doing points to winning at all costs, taking their best shot, not rebuilding. But that Roy contract is SO bad if he’s not producing at an All-Star level that they just may not be able to keep him. But letting him go for nothing sets the team back, providing an undertow to the wave of trying to win.

The story of this era of the franchise is going to be about timing. If Roy just had 2-3 more years in him… (Among other timing issues…)

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 29, 2011 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

does roy really help the team at this point?

i mean it’s a hard decision from an emotional standpoint but contract aside the post meniscus roy doesn’t really help you that much. it’s also hard to believe he’s going to get healthier or better.

by colinmarsh on Jun 30, 2011 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'll agree that Chauncey is a HOFer,

but just calling ‘Melo a HOFer as a given is nuts. He won’t be a sure thing for the HOF til he gets a ring.

Blazers win!

by The X-man on Jun 29, 2011 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

You might be right.

Although, at his current rate he should be in the top 30 all-time points scored in about 3 years. He could end his career in the top 15, which doesn’t matter much, but it will probably get him in anyway.

by Nick Van Excellent on Jun 29, 2011 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Hall of Fame is pretty weak in some ways.

If guys like Alex English, Adrian Dantley, and Chris Mullin can get in it, then so will Carmelo Anthony.

"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."

by AK1984 on Jun 30, 2011 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly

English and AD are exactly the type of player ‘Melo is. It’s the Hall of “Fame”, not the Hall of “Skill”.

by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jun 30, 2011 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't get this at all

Both could score at will, and do so efficiently as evidenced by their FG and FT%’s being over 50 and 80 % respectively.

by ebnerblazer on Jun 30, 2011 5:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

"Hall of Fame" is big on college

Carmelo’s Championship in NCAAs will ensure he gets in.

by Tisbee on Jun 30, 2011 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

That seals Carmelo Anthony's future enshirnement into the Basketball Hall of Fame.

"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."

by AK1984 on Jun 30, 2011 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree

I was gonna post that, while I hate to disagree with Dave, I must in this instance. If charlotte let felton walk because they didn’t think he was that great, then did they view chandler and our own gw in the same light? Seems like they were blowing up the team, not necessarily an indictment of the players themselves. Who knows what the Knicks thought about felton. They were backed into a corner with the Melo trade and Denver wisely pillaged them of as many assets as they could. Denver obviously viewed felton as a starter, thus they were willing to trade him to avoid the logjam. I’m not saying felton is the answer, but I think to use his previous three teams’ willingness to part with him as evidence that he is not the answer is a bit of a reach. Given the circumstances and other recent history of his previous teams, it seems just as plausible that he is a good to great pg. Am I being a total homer here?

"She fell in love with the drummer, another and another"

by Cap'n Crash on Jun 30, 2011 12:19 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

homer alert :)

CH: chandler and GW were traded and were older. Not what you want to rebuild with. Felton walked for nothing and is young. The point that Dave makes is that if he was that good they wouldn’t have let him walk. Maybe at least a sign and trade?

NYK: Agree with you here. Doesn’t matter how much they liked him they had to give him up for Melo.

Denver: They didn’t trade him because they viewed him as a starter. They traded him because they didn’t view him as a starter and he disagreed.

by vullkem116 on Jun 30, 2011 7:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

No

Denver traded him because they do view him as a starter who would be coming off the bench. Instead of paying two starting PGs when they already have a preference for the younger one that was already on the team absolutely DOES NOT mean they did not view Felton as a starter.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

It does mean

that they viewed Felton as less valuable/good/useful/whatever than Ty Lawson. Can a guy who is possibly less valuable/good/useful/whatever than Ty Lawson make a huge impact on this team? That is the question.

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 30, 2011 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The question for me

is does this “lateral move” that will potentially allow us to move forward with a more established core of players offer us the opportunity to make impactful changes to the roster in ways we couldn’t have should the PG situation still be up in the air?

It’s not about Felton being the difference himself, it’s about Felton’s acquisition both directly and indirectly allowing us to reach greater heights.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mm, ok, but Raymond Felton was never considered the answer in Charlotte.

They drafted DJ Augustine at #9 in what was considered a loaded draft three years after drafting Felton because they were never sold on him. In the past three years of DJ showing flashes but not much more, they were desperate to get him to the point where he could supplant Felton. And it was considered painful for the team to trade GW away, but no one cared when they dumped Felton.

Yeah Billups is a HOFer, but he’s rapidly decaying, and his inclusion in the deal was actually a salary dump by the Nuggs. It’s not like NYK was dying to get him—he was a forced part of the trade. The fact that even a decaying Billups is considered an upgrade to Felton speaks to how underwhelmed NYK were by what BE readers claim is his career highlight period. They fought to keep Landry and were bummed about including Gallo, but waved goodbye to Felton cheerfully.

Then of course Denver wouldn’t even consider starting him over Ty Lawson, and platooned with Felton playing 2 guard a lot, similar to how he was used at times in Charlotte.

Felton is who he is—an average to slightly below average starting PG, somewhere in the 15th to 20th best.

by howlingfantods on Jun 30, 2011 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think it was a condition of the trade....Denver wanted him as part of the trade...NY wanted Melo...done deal
They fought to keep Landry and were bummed about including Gallo, but waved goodbye to Felton cheerfully.

Because they were getting Billups

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Why would Denver start Felton over Lawson, their clear PGOTF??

I don’t understand why that’s a slight on Felton or evidence that he is not starting caliber, which he absolutely is

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Have you actually asked Denver fans their opinion?

They were not impressed with Felton and like Lawson much more.

by ppilot on Jun 30, 2011 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

well no duh

Lawson was already on the team and already PGOTF. There have been several Denver fans come into Blazersedge to say we’ll love Felton. I think you guys are missing the part where that was already Lawson’s position and was not up for grabs. Felton was an asset they acquired in the Carmelo deal.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also we have had a couple of Knick fans who also say we will love this dude

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

But Felton was MUCH more established than Lawson

Lawson hasnt even avergaed 30 MIN nor 12 points/game, yet, they wanted to get rid of Felton. I understand Lawson is cheaper, but he’s clearly much better too.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

that is so not the point, Zeus

Imagine that we have a young PG who we envision as PGOTF. Fans love him, he shows a ton of promise. We also have an unhappy superstar who we want to get as many assets for as possible. One of those assets is a very solid NBA starting PG. Why would he take the young PGs throne? Why would the fans want him to? Why would we pay him starter money to be stuck behind our young PG when we know that is not a satisfactory role for him. Felton is not Steve Nash, obviously there are guys that would have supplanted Lawson in the starting lineup, but that list is tiny and smaller than you might think.

Lawson is going to be their PG. That was true before the Carmelo deal and it was true after. Felton was not going to be happy in a backup role (for good reason). You guys are going to great lengths to mischaracterize what happened here.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree with you about Lawson

But at the end of the day, this is Felton’s fourth team entering his 7th year. That’s a fact. And the reason this is so is because 3 other teams previous have found him expendable for whatever reason – just like Miller. And the reason for this is because Felton is an average, non-franchise changing PG. All evidence, empirical or otherwise, points to this – from his actual statistics, to AST ratios to FG% to being moved 4 times.

That’s why I think Dave is spot on by saying this trade didn’t do a damn for our immediate prospects. He’s exactly right.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

No one is calling this a homerun

or Felton a superstar, or franchise changing. Almost everyone in favor of the trade considers it a virtual sidestep that will allow us to move forward moreso than we could have with Dre.

The numbers you list are facts, but they do not take circumstance into account. Otherwise I’d argue with you about why should we keep a PG that can’t get out of the first round after a decade in the league and better teams than Felton. But I don’t, because I don’t pin that stuff completely on Dre. Just like you shouldn’t pin what Charlotte, New York, and Denver did completely on Felton. Obviously if he was a transcendent superstar he wouldn’t have been traded, but no one is calling him that. He is a solid PG in his prime that in theory is a better fit for this team in multiple ways than Dre.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Im not buying he's a better fit really

But I don’t want to have this conversation again. The bottom line is that he’s at very best a lateral move heading into this season. If we can resign him after next season, then maybe this trade was worthwhile. If not, it was a complete waste of time, from his ‘youth’ to playing skills.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

that's not the point

you are changing what you are arguing to suit your case. I’m not arguing your opinion of Felton. I’m arguing that not taking into account the circumstances of Felton’s departure from those teams, and therefore making the case that he’s not good enough to be a solid long term PG option for a team, is the equivalent of me saying that Dre is not good enough to ever get out of the first round. Have I done that? No. Are you doing that with Felton? Over and over.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Didnt say Felton couldn't lead a team

Just saying Felton wont make a damn worth of difference.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

that's an opinion

which you are entitled to. But I take issue with the arguments of his departure, when the argument could easily be turned around on Dre and made much more effectively. Stand by your opinion, but don’t discount the circumstances when the PG you wanted to hold onto is arguably the greatest victim of circumstance in the entire league. Over a decade, never out of the first round. I have not used that argument against him because, unlike how you feel about Felton, I like Dre too…and yet I still like the Felton move. I don’t need to mischaracterize either player’s travels to be in support of the trade, or acknowledge that I like Dre a lot.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

There's some difference between Dre not getting out of the first and Felton

Firstly, Dre has actually played pretty well in playoff rounds statistically – including this past playoffs. Felton has sucked pretty badly in 2 playoff appearances. Secondly, Miller is a SIGNIFICANTLY better player than Felton statistically speaking. And yes, statistics make almost all the difference since it is a true, accurate account of a player’s performance on the court. That’s the bottom line.

You can rebut that Felton might be a better ‘fit’ for this club, and that may or may not be correct, but this is not supported by known evidence. Felton’s shot is NOT good enough where it’s going to spread the floor in a major way for example. We’ll see.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

But at the end of the day, this is Felton’s fourth team entering his 7th year. That’s a fact.

But at the end of the day, Andre Miller has never taken a team out of the first round despite multiple opportunities. That’s a fact. He has had more opportunities to do so than Felton. Also a fact.

Tell me more about Felton’s career shooting %s so we can ignore what he did last year.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, let's talk about it

Felton shot 42.5% overall with a 14.7 PER in a non-D’Antoni system. He also shot 36% in the playoffs and 25% from 3. Bottom line is Felton is inferior to Dre, although I keep saying the gap will be norrowing because of age. The Felton trade only matters if he is extended beyong this year.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Please

Go ahead with the last word. We agree to disagree, and i’m tired of this circle jerk. My opinion is based in fact, and it cant be refuted. Perhaps Felton steps up his game big time in a contract year – anything’s possible. I doubt it though.

I’m not ta;ling to you about this anymore. We’ll see what happens and irreconcilably agree to disagree.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

check it dude

stand by your opinion, but stop mischaracterizing things to suit your argument. I’m not tearing down Dre to lift up Felton like you keep doing in the other direction. If you want to talk bottom lines, Dre has never been out of the first round and has been passed off more times than Felton. Felton is a vastly superior distance shooter. Felton is 8 years younger. Oh, but my opinion isn’t based in fact. Sorry your highness.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Your opinion is based of facts

That wojt make us any better this year. Again, Felton isnt going to be good enough shooter to make that big difference, and his age means NOTHING unless we resign him. All things Ive been saying constantly as caveats to our conversation. But I’m tired of it now.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

If I didn't think Felton would be here longer than a year

I never would have argued with you in the first place, Zeus.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

You thinking he will be here

And actually seeing whether he’ll be here are 2 separate things. Like I’ve stated numerous times, the success on the trade hinges on whether we keep Felton past this year, and how Faried does in his career. This year means next to nothing, because Felton won’t be an upgrade this year (or a minicule one at best). But then again, we’ve seen stranger things happen in a contract year.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Zeus

you are a worthy adversary. The bottom line is neither of us are dumb and neither of us are making baseless arguments. I see it one way and you see it a different way. If it wasn’t debatable then one of us would clearly be wrong, but I think both opinions are valid. If Felton is here past next season, then it will matter how he performs with the rest of our core. If he is not here past next season, then I agree with you that this is not an impactful trade. I expect it to be an impactful trade. You need to see it. I have no problem with that. You have a safe and happy 4th of July weekend my friend.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

You have a safe and happy 4th of July weekend my friend.

Yes, you as well. Although I’m Canadian (Toronto) so July 1st is our National Holiday (U.N. Canada Day)

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well Happy Canada Day, Zeus!!!

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jul 1, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

which I expect to happen

which is why I support the trade. Let’s not note the 46% 3 pt he shot with Denver. Let’s throw out the D’antoni stats because they’re inflated but not the Denver stats where he was a backup/off guard.

His PER was 16.6 last season. You can’t throw out one and not the other. PER is pace adjusted anyway correct?

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, PER is pace adjusted. Without question, Felton played his best ball under D’Antoni. Since that was only 50 games, and he’ll now be playing under a coach who is the polar opposite of D’Antoni pace wise, its reasonable to assume he’ll be closer to the player he was in Charlotte, namely a little above average.

long live the jd.

by jksnake99 on Jun 30, 2011 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I described him as an average to slightly below average starting PG.

So I clearly don’t disagree that he’s starting caliber. Just not a very good one.

by howlingfantods on Jun 30, 2011 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

well we disagree on that

but I respect your opinion. I think it’s hard to argue that he was not above average last season, so we’ll see what he looks like as a Blazer.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

One thing I never see brought up in these Dre/Felton comparisons

At the ends of a lot of games seasons end and playoffs, Dre was on the bench and not finishing games.

Why was that?

Personally, I think 2 issues. First, Nate is a defense first coach. i think Felton is better apt to defend in many cases.

Second, dre can’t spread the floor with the threat of making the jump shot to the extent Felton would.

Overall, one may not be better than the other. However, one could certainly be a better fit?

Roy Bashing~ "Blakes gone...Brandon is next alphabetically " ;-}

by Hermistonmelons on Jul 3, 2011 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Come on dave your being a lil harsh here

Yeah charlotte let him go, as they seemed to let any talented player go. Yes new york let him go, for Carmelo anthony. Yes denver let him go, when they already had their starting point gaurd. Felton has just happened to land in places that have good reasons to let him go, and it had nothing to do with his play.

by Kazper on Jun 30, 2011 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Of course it did

It doesn’t mean he’s a bad player, but if he were Steve Nash in his prime would those things you just described have happened?

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 30, 2011 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Is getting Steve Nash in his prime (or a point guard of that caliber) really a realistic scenario at the moment?

by anupam on Jun 30, 2011 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Portland Trail Blazers need players that will take them to the next level. The ultimate goal is, after all, to win a championship, not to make the playoffs “X” years in a row.

Dave’s point is that those teams did not see Felton as a player that is able to take them to that next level and therefore parted with his services.

by caesar on Jun 30, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ooops,

meant as a reply to “anupam.”

by caesar on Jun 30, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

but you're comparing Ray Felton to a Hall-of Famer, it's about realistic expectations Dave

all we gave up was an aging Dre Miller, who we most likely weren’t going to re-sign anyway- we didn’t have to include any other assets (no, Rudy was no longer an asset) to get him. The way you paint the picture of Felton is that Charlotte willingly passed on him, New York willingly passed on him, and Denver willingly passed on him – which would lead most rational people to believe he’s not a good player, and that’s not the case.

Charlotte didn’t want to pay his market value because they were slashing salaries, New York only gave him up so they could get Carmelo, and Denver didn’t need him and only took him back in the deal to make the salaries match up and to give them depth behind Lawson after shipping Billups out,.

True, Steve Nash likely would have been re-signed, regardless of the amount, and would likely not have been traded twice after that. But we didn’t acquire Nash or anything close to him. We acquired a serviceable NBA PG that has proven, at the least, that he is a capable and productive player when given the right opportunity and supporting cast.

by rip_city_swagger on Jun 30, 2011 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hmmm...

Your last paragraph is exactly what I said in the piece. Felton is a “good, not great” point guard with “obvious skills and obvious flaws”.

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 30, 2011 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I guess the question becomes

since the Felton deal doesn’t blow your hair back (and in my opinion doesn’t really blow anyone’s hair back, we just see it as a solid move), what would you have preferred? Keep Dre and draft Faried? Use Nic and try to get a “difference-maker” like Tony Parker? Is the gap between Felton and the higher tier PGs worth parting with Batum over?

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure what the Blazers could have done

It’s perfectly possible that this deal was the best available to them. But that’s relative value and doesn’t necessarily indicate it was a great move in absolute terms. Just because something is the best dish available at Denny’s doesn’t automatically make it good food. It’s probably just kind of…average.

This was a Denny’s-level move. At the upper end maybe it’ll end up being a Grand Slam breakfast. Great for the Blazers then. It could also turn out to be a soggy club sandwich. Either way it doesn’t materially change the dining experience, nor would one expect it to. The Blazers are still relying on Greg Oden and maybe Brandon Roy to make any kind of significant difference in their status just as they were last year and the year before. If those players don’t come through the Blazers don’t get appreciably better, Felton or no Felton.

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 30, 2011 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

I don't disagree with anything you say here

but there is this overarching feeling of exasperation with the franchise based on this year’s draft day, and I’m trying to understand what people wanted them to do. Maybe I’ve missed it, but the people like myself who support this trade are not characterizing it as Filet Mignon. Maybe we moved from a tough piece of steak and eggs to a grand slam breakfast. At least the grand slam is fresher though, and maybe compliments my Aldridge coffee and my Wallace muffin better than the steak and eggs did. I consider this trade a sidestep that will allow us to potentially move forward further than we could have with Dre, provided we can re-sign Felton, which I expect to happen. I don’t think that is an unreasonable or overly optimistic take on this trade. There is a lot of negativity on this site because we didn’t hit a home run with this deal (even though it may very well be a solid deal), and that’s the part I’m having a hard time comprehending.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I bet to differ
Steve Nash likely would have been re-signed, regardless of the amount

.

Dallas had him…and didn’t re-sign him..he went on to win 2 MVPs.

would likely not have been traded twice

Yeah, only once. He was traded from Phoenix to Dallas for Pat Garrity, Martin Muursepp, Bubba Wells and a 1999 1st round draft pick (Marion) …that is quite a bunch huh?

Fact is …lots of people judge players incorrectly…we need to actually see how a guy plays to find out for sure

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Question is 'what will be the test for Felton?'

Since he is replacing Miller he would need to have something like 14 points and 7 assists. If he equals that is he good enough? How much better than that would he be able to be called a great trade?

by XBlazerfan on Jun 30, 2011 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

What's the point then?

I don’t think it really makes sense to be critical of the trade to get Felton by bringing up an unrealistic alternative as a comparison. Yes, Steve Nash is a better player than Felton (and I see nothing that will change that), but we did what we could considering the trade assets that we had.

by anupam on Jun 30, 2011 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, doing what we could with the trade assets we had would have been including a guy with real value (e.g. Batum) in a move for a better long term answer at PG (e.g. Steph Curry or Devin Harris).

The move for Felton was fine, but we shouldn’t expect anything more than a modestly above average starting PG, so Dave is well within reason to be “meh” on the move.

long live the jd.

by jksnake99 on Jun 30, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I never said he can’t be “meh” on the move, but he’s offering up a comparison that he admits is unrealistic to show that point. Also, I haven’t really seen any evidence that either of the PGs that you mention (Curry and Harris) were available, even if we were to include Batum in the deal. GS seems to be looking to trade Ellis, not Curry (if Curry were available, I don’t think we would have hesitated to include Batum into a deal for him).

by anupam on Jun 30, 2011 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Say rather

you are jumping the tracks of the comparison, trying to make it do something it’s not designed to do. I don’t think the Blazers could have gotten Steve Nash. I didn’t suggest that the Blazers should have gotten Steve Nash. Rather I am saying that those other teams letting Felton go indicates something about their assessment of his worth which in turn should inform us about the level of player we are getting. The argument advanced above said that him being let go has no bearing on their assessment of his worth. The only reason to invoke Nash’s name was to show that it obviously does…that they would not have released Nash in the same way.

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 30, 2011 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dallas let Nash go. They didn't know better, and didn't want to spend what he could command in free agency.

On perhaps a lesser level of performance but still an important player for them, the Bobcats also didn’t want to give Felton an offer good enough to beat out what NY was willing to give him. Charlotte didn’t have a franchise guy, not even Wallace was deemed good enough to keep him forever with the team. We’re obviously not getting a franchise guy with Felton either, but the financials of the trades he was involved in had as much to do with his career transactions as the assessment of his ability as a player.

by Norsktroll on Jul 1, 2011 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Devin Harris is little or no better than Raymond Felton

Golden State is most definitely not offering Steph Curry to anyone for anything.

by NewCavsfan on Jun 30, 2011 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

uh, yes?

Cuban let Nash go to the Suns for financial reasons when Nash was 30. Afterwards, Nash won 2 MVP awards.

"I told him, ‘We will get through this, then shock the world.’ He got a kick out of that,'' Miller said. "We will get through this and shock the world ...''

by abdelnaby on Jun 30, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

I mean, I know what Dave was getting at

just not the best example of his point.

"I told him, ‘We will get through this, then shock the world.’ He got a kick out of that,'' Miller said. "We will get through this and shock the world ...''

by abdelnaby on Jun 30, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Felton is, and will never be anything close to Steve Nash

Very rarely do players suddenly way-up their shooting percentages 7 seasons into their careers. The difference with Steve Nash is that he put his dishing game with his shot and got full time minutes instead of 30 MIN. Nash always had that sweet shot, Felton not so much.

If Nash shot 41% career than Nash wouldnt be nearly the player he is. Felton will never be a good shooter.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

so when he shot 46% on threes with Denver?

oh, small sample size, my bad. Guess he’s never been and never will be a good shooter. For the record I fully expect Felton to shoot 35%+ from 3 for us

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

not the question at hand

Q: Would Steve Nash have been allowed to walk in free agency?
A: In fact, he was.

"I told him, ‘We will get through this, then shock the world.’ He got a kick out of that,'' Miller said. "We will get through this and shock the world ...''

by abdelnaby on Jun 30, 2011 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

Once

in a specific situation. Would he have been let go by three teams in a year? No. Would he be let go the same way even now at the end of his career? No.

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 30, 2011 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Felton hasn't been let go by three teams in a year has he?

And what does it say about Dre when that argument is turned around on him?

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

About the same

If the Blazers got Dre again I wouldn’t expect they’d be much better than they were.

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 30, 2011 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree

but do you think that getting that much younger and potentially solidifying a position as significant as PG may allow us to reach greater heights than we could have with Dre as an indirect benefit of this trade?

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe

I agree that they got younger. We don’t necessarily know we have solidified the position long-term until Felton is under a long-term contract. Also I want to see a couple years of Felton actually being solid/good before I am on board with the “we don’t have to worry about this anymore” thing. Frankly I’d be saying the same thing if the Blazers had just re-upped with ‘Dre for three more years. In the end I’m guessing Portland’s long-term PG answer, if one is coming, will still be found elsewhere. In the meantime this isn’t a bad answer, just not a great one, let alone the Final One.

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 30, 2011 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks Dave!

For the record I didn’t find your mailbag even semi-cranky, and I completely understand why it is frustrating for you to receive some of the reaction you have to your draft day analysis. You do a great job with this site and I apologize if I was in any way a part of what has led to your recent frustration.

I will say that the photo selections for the initial Felton pieces were less than flattering, which I didn’t really understand, but like you wrote it’s up to the Blazers to prove it on the court. I believe that they will welcome the challenge.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

The only photo of Felton

I can recall posting is the one of him and Russell Westbrook?

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 30, 2011 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's all good

in the grand scheme of things it won’t make a lick of difference. I just thought given the insecurity of the fanbase regarding the trade it might be nice to see Felton introduced in a better pictorial light if you will, but that is certainly not your responsibility. The photos seemed to portray him being rather inept. Bumping into Westbrook, turning the ball over, eating a cupcake. It’s really not a big deal, I’m confident our fanbase will love and accept Felton once we get to see him play in much the same way that Andre endeared himself to us so strongly.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think comments like this

From Joe Freeman right after the draft:

The Trail Blazers seemingly never-ending search for a long-term answer at point guard has finally come to an end.

Are why Dave is having the reality check. I read that quote and was thinking Joe must have drank the cool-aid. I’m hopeful Felton works out but to call the search over seems wildly optimistic.

by aces_dad on Jun 30, 2011 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that Freeman quote is putting the cart in front of the horse

but the possibility of that being the case does remain

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jul 1, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

i think the other was from ben.

had a similar theme of felton looking bad next to westbrook. very clever, you bloggers. :)

by SaveOden on Jul 1, 2011 3:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

if steve nash in his prime were available for miller and fernandez, you would have a great point.

the team didn’t give up very much to get felton and still have plenty of assets to make a bold move if they so choose.

by SaveOden on Jul 1, 2011 3:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sabotage the season and hope for the #1 pick!

But wait, the 2012 draft of the century is loaded (loaded!) with forwards at the top (8 of the top 10 players on Chad Ford’s top 100 are forwards). Harrison Barnes would look sweet in a red and black!

Um, No. The Blazers really don’t need another young forward do they? Unless you we live in a dream world where you get one of these new guys and then trade one of the older ones. Um, no thank you.

I like what management was saying when they announced Ray Felton as a guy who is entering his prime just like most of the core guys on the roster. I believe Ray Felton is a good get, not the saviour like Dave says but a good get nonetheless. And if management sticks to their word and can get a decent FA to join the team, than help should also be on the way in the shape of a back-up big or two…

I feel like we’ve been saying this the last few seasons, but we’re all hostage here for at least one more season with this group so I guess hope for the best (again).

by hkphooey on Jun 29, 2011 11:15 PM PDT reply actions  

I recently re-watched games 3 and 4 (of coarse the wins) and Roy was in top form, When re watching game 3 I was suprised how good he played. I was at the game for christ-sake. I wouldn’t count him out yet, consistency is the key. He looked athletic enough with finishes around the rim and drives. I do believe it’s 40% mental. It’s not like roy was ever explosive athletically. Game 4 was him in his prime. Hopefully he can learn to find a middle ground and be consistent. otherwise yes that contract really hurts. but if he is still a #2-4 option than we can survive. Plus he did help this franchise a bunch, so if he just provides something decent well love him.

by RipCity Survivor on Jun 29, 2011 11:22 PM PDT reply actions  

unfortunately he did disappear in the dallas games, but had limited min’s. I know everyone turned on him like vultures, but he can still play. He has the clutch shooting still. the contract is looking bad.

by RipCity Survivor on Jun 29, 2011 11:26 PM PDT reply actions  

Actually he didn’t at first. He made his first 3 shots. However, the team suddenly lost the momentum (as they always did in the series). The next time Brandon was on the floor, Dallas was unstoppable. You can’t just blame Brandon for not performing because everybody on the team was not performing as well.

by Yang Vincent Xu on Jun 30, 2011 7:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nolan Smith

I’m leaning towards the notion he will be forgotten..I hope it works out, but the odds are stacked against him. If he gets playing time it would be a miracle! Seemed like this pick was a reach to me. Like I said, I hope he does well, but the guy is an early second rounder in the weakest draft in 11 years…

by cdfw on Jun 29, 2011 11:32 PM PDT reply actions  

I like smith...

…but I would have rather seen us pick Faried!!! NoSmith is an interesting pick considering our current front and back court situations.. crossing my fingers management has a plan!

by cp3fofree on Jun 29, 2011 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

there's a plan

Implant Smith as the backup to Felton, solidifying the rotation at the 1 through 3 spots, pickup a backup big man in free agency, and fill out the remaining spot or two with deep bench guys, preferably another big. Roll into the year, see what Greg has to give, and look for opportunities with a slew of expiring contracts.

"Well, you can always sell your team."

by douglast on Jun 29, 2011 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

then why offer Patty Mills yesterday?

I understood drafting a Dukie 4 yr Guard on draft day – a “Nate type player”, even when our boy Faried is sitting there for us, but then to make the offer to Mills when you already have another youngster in Armon??

All in the interestes of competing for a backup PG position? Ametuer night at One Center Court….I dont get it.

by breakerfall on Jun 30, 2011 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think the Patty thing is in fact just a house keeping issue

not a guaranteed offer

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Good question.

The team is now loaded with guards.
PG: Felton, A. Johnson, N. Smith, P. Mills
SG: Matthews, Roy, E. Williams

They must foresee more at least one of these players spending time in the development league.

by B_B on Jun 30, 2011 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Armon has a fully guaranteed 2nd year on his contract

They won’t waive him unless they absolutely have too. Patty’s QO is not guaranteed (per Freeman) and instead Patty will be invited to camp to compete for a roster spot

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

6 guards is a lot

They reach for Nolan Smith at #21 because he’s thier guy (again when Faried is there).

Blazers must have been absolutely desperate to get rid of Andre to get bilked by the Nuggets that way. I am convinced the Blazers wanted Faried, but the Denver would not have doen the MIlelr deal unless the Blazers let Faried slip to them….so Blazers grab a guy they can live with in Nolan Smith (who I like), but then come back and offer Mills. Makes no sense….and no Patty Mills is not the next JJ Barea!!

by breakerfall on Jun 30, 2011 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

6 guards is not a lot

15 players on a roster. 5 positions. That’s 3 per position, meaning 6 guards.

Creator of Projectile project management/invoicing/time tracking system.

by jamon51 on Jun 30, 2011 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Patty, Armon, Williams, Brandon, Felton, Wes...and who else?

Who are we forgetting?

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Still not a lot.

Creator of Projectile project management/invoicing/time tracking system.

by jamon51 on Jul 2, 2011 12:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Patty was a target for the Spurs last year

The Spurs were one of several teams hoping to claim Patty off of waivers when the season began. But to most everyone’s suprise Patty took the final roster spot for the Blazers.

My point is that Patty has some value around the league and by offering the QO, Portland retains the asset. I expect that some sort of sign and trade will be made with Mills for a future 2nd rnd pick.

by NWfan on Jun 30, 2011 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

this

it’s basically a no-risk move for Portland. Worse case, you end up waiving him and lose nothing, as his money is unguaranteed. but before that point, you can try and move him or Armon for a minor asset or as part of a package.

"Well, you can always sell your team."

by douglast on Jun 30, 2011 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

If Williams comes back strong

I absolutely can’t wait to see him and Nolan running the backcourt off the bench, with Nic and Johnson (or Oden, knock on wood) and a PF from… somewhere (I haven’t given up on Luke as a spot-up shooter, but I would rather have a banger).
I think that gets it done for 12 minutes a game.

And yes, that means I see Roy as an Amnesty Clause victim. At least I hope so.

by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jun 30, 2011 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

Nice job Dave,

I might be cranky myself lately, anyway it your comments seemed quite reasonable to me.

by Berkeley on Jun 30, 2011 12:18 AM PDT reply actions  

Be careful of what you hope for

It might come back and bite you on the buttocks. How many hoped that we would get the Mavs in the Play-offs? How many has a sore buttocks for getting what they hoped for?

hg

by BBK on Jun 30, 2011 6:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not sure I follow - I hope the Blazers will do well in spite of shortcommings/gaffes.

It would take some good luck, as opposed to typical luck.
Incidentally, I didn’t want the Mavs, and actually rooted for them after the Blazers all along.

by Berkeley on Jun 30, 2011 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dave, you are 100% right on the money…except for Chris Paul…..

by Danvegas on Jun 30, 2011 1:11 AM PDT reply actions  

?

Was drafting Smith part of the deal with Denver?

by doomsdaymachine on Jun 30, 2011 1:13 AM PDT reply actions  

Who knows?

I’m inclined to guess not.

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 30, 2011 2:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not according to Chad. Believe him or not.

"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jun 30, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

that was my first blush thought

but after thinking it through logically, it just doesn’t make sense for Portland. So, unless the Portland brain trust are inept fools, I don’t think there was any kind of agreement not to take Faried. We just liked Smith better.

"Well, you can always sell your team."

by douglast on Jun 30, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's pretty much where my thought process went too.

It’s such a great conspiracy theory, that it’s easy to believe. Kind of like Patty being PA’s pet project (the truth of which is unknown of course).

by Timmay! on Jun 30, 2011 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Was drafting Smith part of the deal with Denver?

Absolutely it might have been. I explained this yesterday in another thread. If the Nuggets and Blazers already made the arrangement (trade), the Blazers could have easily agreed to forego Faried and let both clubs claim they got their ‘guy’ all along. The Blazers knew everyone was pining for Faried, and by arranging to just pick Smith, it serves 2 purposes:

A) The Blazers get to tell Smith he was their ‘guy’ all along
B) The Blazers get to tell the fanbase that Smith was their ‘guy’ all along.

Option A) builds confidence with the player that Smith was Portland’s FIRST draft option all along, and option B) is very helpful PR to appease the fanbase that Smith was their option all along.

The foregoing of draft picks as part of deals has happened several times before in all sports, so I don’t understand why it couldnt have happened here. Chad buchanan said it didn;t, but that means basically nothing: he’s along for the PR ride.

Bottom line is we’ll never know, although it looks awfully suspicious that Faried was selected with the pick directly following Portland’s pick.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think (also discussed yesterday)

that this is an overly complicated stretch of logic that you are reaching for in an attempt to try and explain what you WANT to be the truth. It is far more plausible and simpler logic to take Portland at face value – that they preferred Smith to Faried.

IF Portland wanted Faried and IF Denver asked us not to take him, then you force them to swap picks with you, and give you something on the back end to do it. It is far too big a risk to just let your man pass while you take something else – what if the deal fell apart at the last second? then you are left with the guy you didn’t want and no trade on top of it. That’s just stupid. If there was any deal about Faried, then Portland would have picked him at 20 and he would have been part of the bigger trade.

"Well, you can always sell your team."

by douglast on Jun 30, 2011 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

You have it all wrong
that this is an overly complicated stretch of logic that you are reaching for in an attempt to try and explain what you WANT to be the truth.

This has NOTHING to do with anything. I don’t want anything to happen – I don’t care. I put out this hypothesis because I’ve seen THIS scenario play out in pro drafts before. I;ve seen draft day trades happen where 2 teams let players slide to the opposing one on purpose as part of a draft day trade. Again, the Blazers would be breaking no new ground here. IT HAPPENS.

As for the deal falling apart last second, well, the Fernandez portion of the trade was the last moving part to the trade, so if anything was going to happen ‘last second’, it would be the Fernandez part of the trade.

Again I reiterate its’ entirely possible Portland could have foregoed Faried on purpose, and stating to the media otherwise for the purposes of reason A) and B). We’ll never know.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

The easiest explanation is usually the best.

I assume they liked both players and saw both positions as positions of need, but also saw that there were far more options in free agency for backup bigs that duplicated Faried skills.

by 52therim on Jun 30, 2011 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah maybe

It’s water under the bridge now but I’ll always wonder how it actually went down.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry, but I don't enjoy the crankiness...

It’s hard enough to feel good about my team without the moderator of BE sounding like a grumpy housewife.

by Sheedwasright on Jun 30, 2011 2:30 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

conspiracy...send Cho to the Bobcats

so that he can low-ball an offer for oden to sign. oden signs, and blazers match a very low-risk contract with oden.

one can always hope..

Jeff Pendergraph:
FGM - 3
FGA - 111
Min - 30
Reb - 10

by Tofu Anonymous on Jun 30, 2011 3:40 AM PDT reply actions  

melo is a top 10 player in this league (at least offensively)

i dont think one can claim that trade shows that raymond isnt a good pg

denver already had their pgotf in lawson, so felton would walk in free agency if they hadn’t traded him

blazers have a serviceable pgotf, while retaining their best trade asset in batum and camby’s expiring contract

Felton will make a lot of people have selective memory on their reaction to draft night
Raymond Felton's job requires him to where a sleeveless shirt in front of thousands of people; it should not be this hard to determine whether or not he is fat.
Trade for Iggy

by thomasikehara on Jun 30, 2011 3:43 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

AMEN!
blazers have a serviceable pgotf, while retaining their best trade asset in batum and camby’s expiring contract

by Chris Freed on Jun 30, 2011 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

rec

I don’t know why that is so difficult

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

1/2 full, or 1/2 empty.

My assessment is that we’ll win, but that until we resolve the Roy/Oden issues we won’t win championships. But that doesn’t mean I’m cranky. I also didn’t have any expectations of this draft making any meaningful contribution. We knew it was weak, and when you’re drafting at 21, the cupboard is pretty bare. The typical draft day hype by the commentators would have you believing that we were able to get a difference maker, but the reality was, we were stuck, at best, with a role player. And rest assured, the commentators, in a year, will have completely forgotten all the hype on the previous year.

As far as Felton, I think we simply made a practical basketball move, and I’m okay with that. He doesn’t have to be better than Miller, he only has to be about the same and younger. Miller wasn’t going to take us to the promised land, and we had one shot at getting some value. So we took it. Felton will be around for a couple of years, or long enough to get us through the period of resolving the Oden/Roy dilemmas. Then, we can keep him or trade him. And because he is young, we’ll still get some value for him in a trade. In two years, we’d get nothing for Miller.

Felton, I imagine, has the value of a PG at the average or a little above. Miller was top 10, but his age dropped him down to the mid range, regardless of skills.

Win now does not mean “win everything” now. The second was always an unrealistic reach. So, if I’m cranky, so be it.

As far as my assessment, it’s we did what we could given the situation. We didn’t have the assets to get a better PG via trade(assuming one was even realistically available), but we did get a comparable one while keeping Batum and Matthews on the roster, and to me, that was a win.

Further, I never bought the idea that we would “trade up” to get one of the hyped young guys. After all, none were ready to start, meaning we would’ve had to keep Miller. Meaning we would’ve had to trade Batum or Matthews and possibly others to get into the 7-10 range. And, we still had no guarantee that those taken in the 7-10 range will be better than Felton.

And, as far as the 21 debate of Smith vs. Faried, which is what it seems to be all about, I’m as skeptical as Dave about our wasting of draft choices on PG’s. To be fair, most were picked down the draft, and the odds of getting a difference maker at the point in the 15-30 range are always very low.

So, I didn’t expect the Blazers to be able to make any dramatic move to upgrade the roster. But, they did conserve assets.

So, my cup is 1/2 full. I like the Felton move because we came out at least even plus have a future asset and kept Matthews and Batum, and because I didn’t see anything else out there that I felt, given the Roy/Oden situation, we could make a play for.

by Eben Calder on Jun 30, 2011 6:33 AM PDT reply actions  

I simply don’t see any PG in this draft has >60% chance of better than Felton within 5 years. He is always the best option we can get if we want to be the one who pull the trigger. Also, at 21, especially in this draft, there is no player whose potential could reach more than a role player (please name one if you know just dont say I really like this kid). Can Faried be better than Reggie Evans? I think that would be his ceiling. What if he turn out to be just Joey Dosey type of player? We can find a lot of rebounding 4 in the FA market so I believe passing on Faried is a great choice of the front office. Without Brandon down, we do need shot creation ability at guard and Nolan Smith could be the guy to create shots off the bench.

by Yang Vincent Xu on Jun 30, 2011 7:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

What should the Blazers have done differently?

Perhaps you’ve addressed this somewhere, but I think you’ve sounded like a debbie downer because you haven’t really made a clear case for what the blazers could have done differently on draft day…

by eypark on Jun 30, 2011 6:49 AM PDT reply actions  

I would also like to hear more solution oriented ideas to go along with the criticisms and analysis

that is not directed at Dave…it just seems we are happy to throw stones at the organization without offering alternative, superior courses of action

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but Ben singled Felton out of the whole NBA

regardless of who we were rolling out at starting PG

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was going to say

that Ben was the first one to call Felton our PGOTF

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ben also thought highly of Jerryd Bayless back in the day.

Credit to Ben for being a hard-working, diligent reporter, but I doubt his analysis of PGs is up to snuff.

"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."

by AK1984 on Jun 30, 2011 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I just don’t get it Dave. which PG can you get better than Ray Felton without losing Nic (clearly Chad and PA do NOT want to lose him at this point)? I couldn’t think of any. Tony Parker? Is he a better fit than Felton? Devin Harris? Who else did we ever targeted? Forget about superstar level, if Felton wouldn’t resign, neither would they.

by Yang Vincent Xu on Jun 30, 2011 7:05 AM PDT reply actions  

Parker would have cost at least Batum plus what we gave for Felton

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also they wanted someone to take on Richard Jefferson's b'ugly contract

as a condition of a Parker trade. Price was too high IMO

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

agreed

I’ll happily take Felton at the discount

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Fallacy of The Big Trade (TM)

I agree that nothing that happened on draft night radically altered this team’s fortunes, but why even bring it up? What reason did we have to believe that we could turn an old PG, a 3rd string SG and a late draft pick into something that would radically alter the franchise? That’s just ridiculous. I don’t get it.

Of course, I like Ray & Nolan, and hopefully they fit in well. I’m hoping that both of them help the team improve marginally, even if they don’t alter the fact that we are waiting on Oden (and Roy to a lesser degree) to compete for something special. But I don’t see how we could have done anything this summer to change that. What am I missing?

by zbrum on Jun 30, 2011 7:34 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

Fallacious!

"How you gonna fire a ninja Paul?" - Rich Cho

by Sexual Tyrannosaurus on Jun 30, 2011 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis!

"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."

by AK1984 on Jun 30, 2011 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Question

If we amnesty Roy, is there a way that he can resign with the Blazers?

by Iluvdisteam on Jun 30, 2011 7:45 AM PDT reply actions  

nope

not until his Blazer contract is up, which would be four years from now.

by Chris Freed on Jun 30, 2011 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

FA

if we amnesty Broy, we send him to free agency. That’s why i have my eye on other teams amnesty players. that could be a very interesting list of players.

by Chris Freed on Jun 30, 2011 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

We’ll only be able to offer them the MLE, though, because we’ll be (presumably) over the cap.

I can’t remember who it was, some national pundit, who said that you’re going to see a scramble for teams to get under the cap not only in anticipation of the lower ceiling, but also because there’s going to be a bunch of amnestied and serviceable players ready to sign.

by caesar on Jun 30, 2011 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry,

the Knicks didn’t ultimately agree that Ray wasn’t taking them to the next level. When you are getting Carmelo AND a more than capable replacement in Chauncey Billups, you have no problem letting Felton go.

by ZenGarden on Jun 30, 2011 7:49 AM PDT reply actions  

I'd like to know how the Blazers

balance their roster? Can they even spend anymore money on a FA? The only Trade value they have is Batum and that is small potatoes and a stupid idea unless it’s a package. It seems like they are stuck! They are going to be digging in to D league again desperate for a big. I’d just like to know what is possible. Please don’t tell me something like Pendergraph he’s just another D leaguer. Is there any real solution?

by XBlazerfan on Jun 30, 2011 7:50 AM PDT reply actions  

Dave...

Props to you for being a realist.

While I’m very happy with the initial class and good character of the 3 new players we added on draft day – nothing’s convinced me yet that this team will be better than last year’s because of what the front office did on draft day.

Anyone who thinks that these 3 guys were Portland’s top choices are drinking the KoolAid.

With that said – i, like you, hope they work out! (improves chemisty?, sleeper in Smith?, improved rapport between coach and his PG?)

Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.

by Net Ranger on Jun 30, 2011 7:51 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Two things that have been bothering me

1) The use of “you don’t know the future,” “we’ll see,” and “I choose to be an optimist” as legitimate arguments in a discussion of the state of the team. You’re right, nobody knows the future, but attempting to make accurate predictions of the future based on available data and information is well within the prerogative of fans and analysts, and conclusions reached via these means are more substantial than ones attributed to “being an optimist.” Being an optimist is fine, but it’s not an argument.

2) Along the same line, the constant questioning of the fanhood of those who sometimes take a critical view of a move by the organization is getting kinda annoying. I love the Portland TrailBlazers. I’m posting on a Portland TrailBlazers forum at 8 in the morning. God, I’m thinking about the Portland TrailBlazers at 8 in the morning. By saying that you “Believe in the Blazers,” you’re implying that I don’t, which is just irksome.

Let’s just keep it logical and respectful y’all. Nobody wants the Blazers to lose, everyone (hopefully) wants the Blazers to win.

by caesar on Jun 30, 2011 8:03 AM PDT reply actions   2 recs

It is as good of argument as any other...if used correctly
The use of "you don’t know the future," "we’ll see," and "I choose to be an optimist" as legitimate arguments in a discussion of the state of the team. …..Being an optimist is fine, but it’s not an argument.

I see statements like “Oden is Done”…or …“Oden will never be able perform in the league” all the time. These aren’t arguments…they are just opinions dressed up as facts…and very pessimistic as well. Statements like these are often followed up by observations by others such as “you don’t know the future” and "I choose to be an optimist". These are legit responses in my opinion.

PS I also believe that some people really …really…want to be correct in these predictions…so they will predict doom and gloom because it is easier. If their dire prediction comes true , they can say i told ya so…and if it doesn’t…then they are also happy because the team won. I feel like that is a “safe” position to take.

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

hahaha sounds like me:
so they will predict doom and gloom because it is easier. If their dire prediction comes true , they can say i told ya so…and if it doesn’t…then they are also happy because the team won.

by XBlazerfan on Jun 30, 2011 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would argue

that the Oden issue is kind of transcendent.

As a counterexample I’d say that people pointing to Roy’s chronic knee condition and the limited effectiveness he showed last season and saying “We should amnesty Roy” or “Roy will never return to the level he was still at” have a solid argument when looking at the extent of Roy’s knee issues and previous effectiveness of players going through the same type of injuries.

On the other side, those saying “Remember Game 4” seem to forget almost every other game Roy played last year, and those saying “Believe in Roy” give me no reason to other than pointing to the famous game 4 (which was one of the best sporting moments I have ever seen) or saying he “saved” the franchise.

I bring the Roy stuff up to contrast to the Oden question mark you alluded to, where people are making dire conclusions of Greg Oden’s career. I agree with you, those who are negating Oden to the Broken and Worthless Centers Negative Zone are being too hasty. There are just so many question marks with Oden because of the non-connectedness of the injuries he’s suffered that I feel like the issue is transcendent. Maybe it’s because we had so much hope for him, but predicting the future with Oden feels like guessing when you’re going to die.

by caesar on Jun 30, 2011 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

However....Game 4 does provide some reason optimism

I saw it live at the Garden (i also watched it on DVR too)…and it was at least twice as intense as on TV. It was definitely the most awesome display i have ever seen at a sporting event. That being said…I (optimistically) think Roy’s game 3 performance may be more indicative of what we see from Brandon going forward…and if so, that will be just fine.

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

That's a fair assessment .

I just brought Roy up mainly as a counterexample to how cumbersome the Oden question is.

by caesar on Jun 30, 2011 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah...there is more data that makes Roy's future less bright

but that being said…no one really knows what he can bring is the short or medium term. Also Brandon’s contract when get’s closer to expiring could be very valuable…so the idea that it is a no brainer to AC him is possibly shortsighted

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

I really think it’s a no-brainer because of the length of the contract. His contract prevents the franchise from both blowing up and moving forward, leaving us kind of “stuck” in the middle, which is the worst place to be in the NBA.

But that’s a different thread…

by caesar on Jun 30, 2011 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

I am there too (the middle thread)

However…the questions in my mind are these…what kinda of Amnesty will be available and will using it on Roy get us under the cap. If the AC only gives luxury tax relief and doesn’t get us below the cap….PA could decide to pay the penalty even with only moderate performance from Brandon

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

What if you were to get 15/5/5 from Brandon for the next 2 years?

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

You are not going to consistently get that from a bench player with knees like Roy's

I would guess that Roy will probably only play 50-60 games due to health reasons and If we got 10/3/3 I consider it a win

by ppilot on Jun 30, 2011 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Actually

….."you don’t know the future," so I guess "we’ll see," however "I choose to be an optimist" and think that it is possible for Brandon to be effective in a different role PT wise

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Since when can doctors tell if a player will score 15 or 10?

That isn’t a doctor question

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's absolutely a doctor related question...Roy's body will be fighting a constant battle to make up for the damage in his knee

The results of that battle manifests itself in any number of ways, none of which are conducive to staying healthy over an 82 game season and affects his production on the court

by ppilot on Jun 30, 2011 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

They can tell if he will be limited

they can tell if he will have pain…what they can’t do is get into specific performance predictions.

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

That pain, movement limitations, and time lost to injury has a pretty direct affect on performance

This isn’t a case where a player got injured and then rehabilitated to full strength, this is a permanent injury.

by ppilot on Jun 30, 2011 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Doctors cannot predict how many points a dude will score

if you have a study that says they can…post a link…and also post the link where these same doctor’s used this new method on BRoy and how many points they determined he will score

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

You are right, but they have a much better insight than the average fan as to the physiological effects of Brandon's permanent condition

Do you really think that Brandon will be able to stay remotely healthy despite the fact that he knee situation is worse than before?

by ppilot on Jun 30, 2011 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

I cannot predict how he will react and what he will be able to do

and I am honest enough to admit it

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

For what we are paying Brandon...that's not acceptable.

If the Amnesty clause is as has been discussed, you use it on Brandon Roy without a second thought

by ppilot on Jun 30, 2011 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

Pay vs Performance only goes so far

Because of the fact that you are going to continue paying him regardless. So the question is really…how much more do you have to pay versus performance. That is unknown at this time

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well I talk about it right...

…here

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

That would be a horrible move from a business and Roster management standpoint

Paying himsuperstar money (at the beginning of his contract), in addition to the Luxury tax effects, and finally looming extentions for Oden (hopefully), Batum, and if things work out, Felton. .

by ppilot on Jun 30, 2011 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

That horrible decision was already made

when Larry Miller took over the Roy negotiation from Pritchard. Obviously Paul Allen was and is commited to Roy to the bitter end.

by XBlazerfan on Jun 30, 2011 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

His contract money is gone...it is.

If you look at it from that perspective …the smart thing is to only look at new costs …and make decisions based on that

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

There's an excellent chance the luxury tax will be gone in the next CBA.

It’s also likely that using an amnesty clause (if there is one) won’t put the Blazers under the NEW cap or even close to it if they retain Oden in an expensive long term deal and extend Nic. And they pay Brandon whether he is here or not. There’s even a possibility that salaries and guaranteed years of current contracts could be rolled back under the new CBA.

Listening to Tom Penn yesterday, I think he believes there may not be any season next year at all. In which case Brandon would only have 3 years left on his contract and the last year isn’t fully guaranteed.

So the decision to part with Brandon may not be clear cut at all, especially if he can still play 60 games a year, and be effective in 25 minutes off the bench. Even if the new CBA doesn’t help our Brandon situation, I could see him play effectively but painfully for another 2 years and then retire because the toll on him was too much.

Bottom line, let’s just wait to see what the next CBA brings before we get too caught up in the Brandon decision.

"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jun 30, 2011 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

and to go a little further

I am saying that if there is only luxury tax relief connected with the AC, then Paul has a personal decision regarding whether he wants to pay the tax on Roy (this is what I mean by how much more we pay for BRoy’s production…because his contract will be paid) . Also to be evaluated …will waiving Roy get the team under the cap? If it doesn’t …what flexibility would be gained?

These are all things that need to be looked at after a new CBA is in place …and then look at the real additional costs with keeping ..or waiving Brandon

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Doom and gloom is natural for many sports fans

It’s not necessarily about “wanting to be correct.” I for one don’t assume anyone will remember any prediction I make here or anywhere else. But I’m superstitious about positive predictions. If I make a positive prediction (say, calling friends after the draft lottery to shout, “we got Oden!”) I’m always wrong. When I make a negative prediction I’m only wrong most of the time. Ergo: my positive predictions=negative results. My negative predictions=mixed results. So as a sports fan, I have to be negative. It’s for the good of you all.

Steve Goodman lives.

by twinsbrewer on Jun 30, 2011 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is really just minor variation on my theory

with the superstition part swished in

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don't Sweat It...

…I suppose it’s the way of the world. It happens in Blazersedge, and many other forums and situations.

   I’ve had people admit to me, that for them their definition of being a “fan” includes unconditional support in the form of never being critical of the teams actions.

   I think that’s the extreme, but I think most people fall into a spectrum somewhere inbetween “Must Support and Love Every Move The Team Makes” and “Nothing The Franchise Does Is Correct”.

   What I like about Blazersedge, is usually this is all respected. It’s usually not boring, unwinnable debates between the Undying Blazer Optimist and the Unmovable Blazer Pessimist.

   The franchise has made some very debatable moves. And maybe that’s the whole story. Trading for a Gerald Wallace, using draft picks and an injured Przybilla, doesn’t leave much to debate. It’s the “slam dunk” type of deal that doesn’t create controversy. Trading Andre Miller, Rudy Fernandez for Raymond Felton and passing on Kenneth Faried (whom The Franchise publically was supposedly high on) to simultaneously draft his back-up, in the form of Nolan Smith…is simply going to lead to controversy.

  And whether you are going to buy The Blazer “company” line on why the moves were made, and how they supposedly help this team, OR you are going to bemoan the loss of Andre Miller and become sullen about the non-obtainment of Kenneth Faried on one level doesn’t matter.

  Only time will tell.

  I don’t agree with everything Dave or Ben say. But the effort and work they both obviously put into Blazersedge precludes me strongly from ever coming to the ghost of the conclusion that they "aren’t “true” Blazer fans" or “Don’t Like The Team”…

  Part of the problem the past few years in general, is I think this team has been hesitant to make the “risky” or dangerous move..the move that you might NOT be able to sell to the fanbase easily.

   Whether you like the events of the past few weeks or not, I give the franchise some credit for making them. The easy thing to do? Would of been to do little or nothing. Draft the consensus and national pundits “projected” best value in Kenneth Faried…and then have a nice press conference and call it a day…

  The Blazers National Pundit draft day grades would of been much higher….

  Only time will really tell if our future would actually be brighter…

 But I think as we enter a phase with this franchise where I think development will be tied to moves of greater risk. We are no longer the young team trying to build through the draft and catering to young talent. I think that opens the avenue for broader spectrums of evaluation and criticism.

  As long as we are striving to keep the conversation on what we think about what “The Blazers” are doing…and not so much on what….“you or I” think…or we think “We” should think…I think we are fine.

   

"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"

by Krang on Jun 30, 2011 9:09 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I cut Dave slack for two reasons:

1: Negative people make me, the BEdge optimist, look all the more shiny and joyous. Thanks, Dave.

2: Dave doesn’t seem to believe Lamarcus will learn to be an effective big at picking and rolling. If his doubts are accurate, Felton is far less effective in Nate’s system and it’s bottom-of-the-pace-barrel scraping ways. I believe Felton should becould bewould be the piece to get more out of this roster’s great running assets except for two humbling realities:

1: The Blazer bench is incredibly thin. Increasing pace also increases their role in the game.

2: Nate has never—EVER—had a team that isn’t toward the bottom of the league in pace.

But we’ll see. I’m optimistic though.

/s

by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jun 30, 2011 9:22 AM PDT reply actions  

RE: Lamarcus

All he really needs to do is learn how to properly set screens with the occasional (!) slip and roll with the occasional (!) pop-out. I have no idea how hard it is for a man 6’ 11" to set a solid pick but I feel like it’s a skill that could be learned during the summer.

Maybe his screen and roll game will pick up dramatically once he isn’t waved off every time or made to pop 18 ft. away from the basket.

by caesar on Jun 30, 2011 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

2005 NBA Draft

Did Portland really swap picks with Utah to go from the #3 slot down to #6?? Just goes to show you that even if this team is in the lottery they’ll find someway to mess it up..passing on Deron Williams, AND CP3!? We could’ve at least been in the WC elite.

by NSXIV503 on Jun 30, 2011 9:22 AM PDT reply actions  

We got Webster though.

He would have been an all star if Nate hadn’t been holding him back all those years.

/s

by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jun 30, 2011 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

your sig is working overtime on that one!

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jun 30, 2011 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

Of course, with CP3 or D Will

our team’s fortunes may have improved, lessening our chances for nabbing LMA, B Roy, Oden, and the pearl of them all: Luke Babbitt in a Webster giveaway. Don’t say we don’t love ya, Kahn.

/s

by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jun 30, 2011 12:11 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

This is why John Nash & Steve Patterson are elsewhere.

Well 1 of the many reason’s.

Somebody step up! - Mike Rice

by We-B-Dunkin on Jun 30, 2011 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

"Did Portland really swap picks with Utah . . . passing on Deron Williams and CP3?"

No. You’re having a nightmare.

I remember being at a Twins game the night of that draft and exploding into inappropriate language when someone texted me about that move . . .

Steve Goodman lives.

by twinsbrewer on Jun 30, 2011 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

This isnt a cranky post, it's realistic and objective

Two things that aren’t in ample supply on this site at times.

There are too many unknowns to make one really excited about the next season, whenever that may be. In all honesty, if GO can’t get and stay healthy and PA isn’t able to buy out Roy’s contract how far can we really go in the postseason? Even if Roy is gone we need to fill his shoes. The only way that happens is by over paying for a FA. GO hasn’t been injury free for any extended period in his entire (albeit short) adult life. He fractured his hip in middle school, for cryin’ out loud. It’s hard to get too hopeful when so much hinges on one of the most injury prone athletes of his generation.

The lineup, as it stands, is very thin. I expect this to change before the start of next season, but I’m not sure we can really improve through a trade and who knows what FA’s mgmt is targeting.

by lil'stink on Jun 30, 2011 10:00 AM PDT reply actions  

Dave, I only had time to quickly scan all this. So, sorry if it was addressed

I appreciate your honest and cindid analysis. I enjoy the chance to disagree on occasion in a gentlemanly way.

I had been a bit worried. Does the honest view of this team take away some of the Joy? There is still a lot to truly Love about watching this team. Most of all, is the Kids night event you do. My hope is to finally be in a position to contribute to that this coming year. Props to everyone who has. But, it is truly the best thing about everyday being a great day to be a Blazer…

Oh Yeah, LMA is going to make Felton look ten times better ;-} So there LOL

Roy Bashing~ "Blakes gone...Brandon is next alphabetically " ;-}

by Hermistonmelons on Jun 30, 2011 10:13 AM PDT reply actions  

I don't mind opinions

But I come to BE to get away from Canzano style writing about the Blazers. It’s okay to say you don’t think Felton is the answer, but to put up a bunch of silly pictures of him and mention in a lot of news posts that he’s fat etc. is a bit much. I just want news when I come here, not post after post of your opinion. It all just feels like a bit too much these days.

by Waynearchetype on Jun 30, 2011 10:16 AM PDT reply actions  

On a serious note,

It will be interesting to see if Felton is any better fit than Andre.

With LMA on Pick and Roll.. Can LMA buy into setting great picks? Felton has a better shot than Andre

Felton may work better than Andre with Gerald running. It may translate into Nic Running better as well as LMA?

Finally, if there is an answer to silly Basketball Prayers… If there is any decent version of BRoy… Felton may be abetter fit. Not Steve Blake, but a version between..

Oh… And the Oden deal… A Healthy Oden makes everyone fit better….

If none of it happens, there is likely those two or three magical games like with the Alley Oop from Andre to Nic or Brandons Easter miracle to make the season one with unforgetable moments. It is a great day to be a blazer Fan, even if we can be cranky ones LOL

Roy Bashing~ "Blakes gone...Brandon is next alphabetically " ;-}

by Hermistonmelons on Jun 30, 2011 10:18 AM PDT reply actions  

Optimism comes with summers - it is like the sunshine, enjoy it while it is here

Raymond Felton appears to be an upgrade over Andre. In Nate’s offense he can run a pick and roll and he can shoot from the outside. He still has room to grow. This is especially true for most point guards: they need more time to develop and learn the NBA game. Jason Kidd and Steve Nash both needed time to become established with a team and mature. And both were traded, Kidd multiple times.

Nolan Smith is apparently the player the Blazers targeted this year. A 1st team All-American, MVP of the ACC tournament, ACC player of the year (ahead of his teammate Kyrie Irving) and a real leader. I don’t expect much from Nolan this year or next (see reasoning above).

Not mentioned is Jon Diebler. Some have said he is going to play a year overseas. But we need his shooting now. He can be a third SG and play more if Brandon needs time off.

I will be happy with Pryzbilla and Pendergraph added when lockout is lifted. Those two give us depth. Armon and Patty also are reasonable depth at PG. At shooting guard we are dependent on Brandon to be mostly healthy. At center Greg is a bonus when he is able to play (apparently January). This team needs to gel and prepare for the post-season. The West is weaker and the door is open to win the conference.

by lee3022 on Jun 30, 2011 11:07 AM PDT reply actions  

What sunshine?

It was raining up here north of Seattle today.

"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."

by AK1984 on Jun 30, 2011 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dave, no need to apologize

I find your recent posts on the State of the Union both refreshing and TRUE. The truth has to be said irrespective of the words Good and Bad. And I believe you;ve pretty much nailed it since the draft.

Keep up the good work.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 11:26 AM PDT reply actions  

Regarding the draft

I believe if Felton was good enough for Brown and Smith was good enough for Coach K and Diebler (a flyer pick) also played with big boys, the Blazers went with those picks after getting burned by their scouting on Armon and Babbitt who did not play in the bright lights and on the big stage despite how they maybe looked on paper. People get all freaked about Faried but fail to realize he was killing the boards against sub-par talent at Morehead State which might not have (likely not have) translated into success in the NBA. This was a weak draft and he was at 21 for a reason. Nothing to get your knickers in a bunch over…

by tblaze1 on Jun 30, 2011 12:00 PM PDT reply actions  

People get all freaked about Faried but fail to realize he was killing the boards against sub-par talent at Morehead State which might not have

It may or may not have translated, you’re right. But we needed to take that change in case it payed off, since a CHEAP and credible 4 is a critical need moreso than backup combo guard. Afterall, it wasn’t just Dennis Rodman who panned out from a Division 2-3 School to make it big in the NBA on the defensive end/glass, there’s also Ben Wallace (Virginia Union), Charles Oakley (Virginia Union), Larry Smith (Alcorn State), Vin Baker (Harford) and others.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Forgot to add

Anthony Mason to that list (Tennessee State), Shawn Kemp (Trinity Valley CC), Robert Parrish (Centenary College), Truck Robinson (Tennessee State) and of course Larry Bird (Indiana State, 10 REB/game average – career).

You can get some awfully good rebounders from small schools in other words as this list demonstrates. Not just rebounders but players in general.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ad how could I forget

Jerome Kersey (Longwood College)

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

good list

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jul 1, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Of those guys, Larry Smith is who I find to be the most comparable to Kenneth Faried.

"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."

by AK1984 on Jul 1, 2011 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah agree

Faried looks like he could have a Larry Smith-type career.

Let me throw one more name out there: Rick Mahorn (Hampton University)

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jul 2, 2011 6:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Here’s the deal: When Charlotte had Raymond Felton I figured he was a serviceable guard but did not go gaga over his contributions or where he led the team. Neither did Charlotte, as they allowed him to become an unrestricted free agent and sign with New York. When New York got Raymond Felton I did not think he was going to lift them to the next level. He did well there, but ultimately the Knicks agreed because they traded him to Denver. When Felton came to Denver I did not think he was going to revolutionize their roster and style of play. Neither did they, as they traded him to Portland. Now that he’s come to Portland my assessment of him is supposed to change, just because he’s a Blazer now? He’s the same guy he always was: a good, not great, point guard with some legit skills and equally legit flaws.

Another way of looking at it…when the games resume in Jan (or later) the Nuggets will have their young starting PG (Lawson) with Portland’s starting PG (Miller) backing him up. OTOH, the Blazers will be starting Denver’s backup PG who will in turn be backed up by a rookie. Advantage: Denver. Down the road the trade may look a lot nicer, short term it’s a deal the Nuggets would make everyday and twice on Sundays.

Sigh… I hate this kind of thing. When you say something that goes against the grain to the positive people call you a homer fan optimist. When you say something that goes against the grain the other way people call you a negative-Nelly pessimist. Trying to attribute statements you don’t agree with to somebody’s emotional state or slapping them with a broad (and untrue) label just seems…silly.

Agreed. There are no realists on BE, there are only fanboys and haters. It’s up to you and the mods to change the culture, and I wish you all the luck in the world.

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Jun 30, 2011 12:32 PM PDT reply actions  

As Howard Cosell once said

“I never played the game”

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Jun 30, 2011 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

It'll be even better if they can extend Dre for less money

For the next couple of years. That’s one hell of a backup. They can also use Lawson at 2 and Miller at PG at times.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh

most people here are reasonable. In fact all of them are in their way. My frustration is that people want to jump to an extreme version of a nuanced and specific argument, over-generalizing and making it say something it isn’t. Example: Getting Felton and Smith on draft day was an average-level move that doesn’t change Portland’s situation much nor, critically, lessen their reliance on Greg Oden and to a lesser extent Brandon Roy. That’s a reasonable and valid argument and I think quite true. But somehow that becomes “You hated the draft moves and are bagging on the team.” That’s actually quite untrue. I guarantee you that Felton is going to have a 20-point game in the early season and somebody is going to make some version of the comment, “Take THAT, Dave!” as if I disliked the guy or was rooting for him to fail. Meanwhile that 20-point performance won’t change the overall status of the team that much nor take them into the conference finals or beyond, a task that is almost certainly beyond Felton (or the difference Felton can make).

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 30, 2011 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pshaw! I scoff at your middle ground

You MUST pick a side dang it! Black and White! Haters and fanboys! Fox news or MSNBC!!!

They can’t BOTH be right….which side is it? TELL ME WHAT TO THINK!!!!

by moflow on Jun 30, 2011 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

fact is

none of us know if the Blazers will be improved (or not) for 6-7 months, then the ultimate test will come next April and hopefully May. The BE “pendulum” will swing back and forth but I intend to take a break and only check in occasionally. When the games resume I hope there’s a different culture around here, but it’s hard to imagine too many positives when the NBA news will be bleak and combative

It’s not my job to give anyone free advice, but you may want to revive the junk drawers. The best tonic for tough times is humor (even if it’s irrelevant) and not Bedgers focusing on other Bedgers.

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Jun 30, 2011 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

And even if the team wins 55 games some people will say it is fluke
none of us know if the Blazers will be improved (or not) for 6-7 months

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Correction
OTOH, the Blazers will be starting Denver’s backup New York’s starting PG who will in turn be backed up by a rookie

I doubt you will feel this changes anything

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

The Knicks are not in Portland's division

nor were they involved in the trade

And if Felton couldn’t beat out Lawson, then he was indeed Denvers backup PG (who swung and played out of position at the 2 last spring)

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Jun 30, 2011 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Was that fact that Denver is in our division relevant?

I thought you were trying say that we have back-up level PG….and I was pointing out in my own way that we in fact have a starter level PG.

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m pretty sure everyone recognizes Felton is a starter level PG. He also happens to be the 4th best starting PG in our division, and that’s assuming Rubio doesn’t blow up in Minny.

long live the jd.

by jksnake99 on Jun 30, 2011 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

He can hang though

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Jul 1, 2011 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

I guarantee you that Felton is going to have a 20-point game in the early season and somebody is going to make some version of the comment, "Take THAT, Dave!"

That’s exactly what’s going to happen. Sadly, those people will call you out after his first good game, without taking in context Felton’s whole season. There is no question Felton will have some brilliant 24 PTS (9-15), 9 AST, 5 REB-type games, but he’ll also have a bunch of 11 PTS (4-13), 4 AST, 2 REB-type games too. Consistent performance is what separates the Felton’s from the upper tier PG in the NBA.

You’ll have to be the bigger man when that happens Dave because I know you won’t be calling out BEdger’s when the inevitable stinky Felton play happens.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 1:59 PM PDT reply actions  

I don't think that much stinky Felton play will happen

He’s not a bad player. He’s a decent get for this team. But he’s not going to be a revolutionary move. I will root for him 100% and love those 24-point efforts. I can live with the off games too. Dre had them from time to time and before that was Steve Blake. The only salient point is that the Blazers haven’t gotten that much better with Felton…ups and downs and all. They’ve moved relatively sideways, gotten younger, but are still waiting for the difference-making event (if it’s ever coming).

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 30, 2011 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree with every word of that

And I might add we pretty much have to trade Batum now for a 4 or 5. Because we did this however, we’ve weakened our chances somewhat. I would have much preferred either keeping Dre + Faried + Smith instead of Felton + Smith, or using Dre’s expiring contract packaged with Batum to make a bigger more quantifiable move. I think you’re exactly dead right with all of your analysis since the draft.

If we don;t resign Felton, this trade with be a complete non-factor costing us Faried (#21 pick)

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree with Dave

Nothing here to make me jump up and down with unbridled glee. Felton may be on an upward path and maybe we can sign him long term at the right budget? Maybe not. We definately got played by Denver and gave up too much to potentially rent him for a year. I believe we could have kept Faried and gotten Nolan with the Dallas pick as well. Denver is happy to have Andre and not have the distraction of Felton on their team. We got played. I also don’t like the bury your head in the sand about the woeful state of our bigs. We have one player over 6’8" we can rely on. Camby is a question mark to me. Either he will play 24 minutes a game with one dimensional, decreasing, defensive presence or will get periodically injured. Either way he will disappear in the playoffs like he did the last two years. But don’t worry about it. Guaranteed we pick up a couple of bigs in FA and Oden is coming back right? The good news is before we won the Oden pick I was shooting for Corey Brewer :)

by LicketyBrindleDowntheMiddle on Jun 30, 2011 2:18 PM PDT reply actions  

best thing to happen for PDX??

someone with no cap space wants Oden, and is willing to trade an asset for him. Sadly, I can’t imagine that happening. But it in my imagination, this team would have some good players, but no 5. Who could this be? Houston – sends Scola and Dragic; Atl – sends Josh Smith; NJ- Lopez (outlaw as filler); GState-Curry, Biedrens.

by shallwemaui on Jun 30, 2011 2:42 PM PDT reply actions  

Actually the best thing to happen fo portland would be for Oden to beast out

end of story. If that happens, even Roy won’t matter much

Me after hearing of a Rudy Hardwood Classic Jersey going for $45:"Take the "RNANDEZ" part off....and sew on a "LTON and you are good to go"."

by 92wastheyear on Jun 30, 2011 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Since Dave thinks he may as well be the new GM for the Blazers,

I would like to know what he would have done in the last few weeks, so this wasn’t labled “semi-cranky edition”.

"It's probably a twelve-day. He needs two days to wake up." - MJ on a ten-day contract teammate

by NorthWest Connection on Jun 30, 2011 2:47 PM PDT reply actions  

Yeah

Not necessary. Dave has given a very reasoned explanation of his thinking for the team; a mindset which a lot of fans happen to believe – including myself and a few well versed posters here. If you can’t deal with that, I suggest dropping in on the next Kool Aid stand nearest you.

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe

But the Kool Aid comment (and the like) doesn’t help.

—Dave

by Dave on Jun 30, 2011 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

If you can’t deal with that, I suggest dropping in on the next Kool Aid stand nearest you.

Withdrawn

Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB

by zeusmith on Jun 30, 2011 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

No Kool-Aid stands in my neighborhood, anyway

When we can’t deal with our teams’ production or prospects, we hit the bar.

Vikings coach Mike Tice to a ref during a sloppy game: “These kids will drive you to drink. More.”

Steve Goodman lives.

by twinsbrewer on Jun 30, 2011 9:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kids need to learn work ethic

I am all for kool aid stands ;-}

Roy Bashing~ "Blakes gone...Brandon is next alphabetically " ;-}

by Hermistonmelons on Jul 3, 2011 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

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