Portland Trail Blazers 2011 Draft Possibilities: The BIG TRADE (tm)
by Dave on Jun 21, 2011 10:30 PM PDT
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PrintSo we've been through the rundown of most reasonable Portland Trail Blazers draft prospects here, here, here, and here. We may have missed a Marshon Brooks here and there (6'5", 195lb shooting guard, great wingspan, has developed into an incredible scorer but sucks up possessions like Bounty sucks up kitchen spills) but for the most part the bases are covered...except for one. What about this BIG TRADE (tm) that we hear whispered about?
Could It Happen? Why Now?
There are several compelling reasons to make a deal at this juncture besides the obligatory lust for talent and roster honing. This is the last opportunity to deal players based on their 2010-11 salaries. This could become important if Andre Miller is part of a package deal. His team (Portland or someone else) is free to decline the final year of his contract through June 30th. This gives the receiving team flexibility to retain him for one year or reap cap/tax savings immediately. This is also the final opportunity to consummate a trade under the current CBA rules. The new structure will probably be similar in style but who knows what affect this summer's changes could have on the system? At a minimum a lockout will delay potential deals indefinitely. You don't know if your handshake now will translate into action nine months from now. If you want to make a move you have to strike while the iron is hot. Depending on the new cap numbers an attractive deal now could look unattractive later. Salaries of players involved could change. Cap numbers will change. Rules may change. It's a huge unknown.
Whatever changes happen the Blazers will be on the wrong side of the cap/tax barrier. That gives them incentive to make sure every contract they carry is one they like. If they're not satisfied with a given player paying him is going to grate. Also they'll want to grandfather in as many favored players' contracts as possible, taking advantage of any transitional rules put in place. If they really love a guy it's safer to have him as a Trail Blazer going into the new CBA than try to make him one under the new CBA.
What Salary Are We Talking?
The obvious assumption is that the two Trail Blazers involved are Andre Miller for cap incentive and contract exchange heft and Nicolas Batum for talent. Miller makes $7.27 million this year, Batum $1.2. That ends up at $8.47 million combined. Absent another team being under the cap playing into the picture we're looking at an upper limit of around $10.7 million coming back to Portland down to around $6.7 as the lower limit. Obviously throwing around other names would change the numbers but to keep the topic manageable we'll assume Miller and Batum are the names in question.
Who Makes That Kind of Money?
This is where the idea starts to fall apart. We actually dealt with a similar salary range a couple of years ago when Raef LaFrentz's expiring contract was the conversation rage in Portland. Guys making this kind of dough break down into two broad categories:
- Players worth the money who therefore aren't available.
- Players not worth that kind of money whom you wouldn't want.
You're threading the eye of a needle trying to fit a guy between those two standards. Here's a non-comprehensive but still-decent list of players in the salary range:
Andris Biedrins, Monta Ellis, Kirk Hinrich, Stephen Jackson, Ben Gordon, David Lee, Kevin Martin, Danny Granger, Corey Maggette, Steve Nash, Jose Calderon, Beno Udrih, Devin Harris, Paul Millsap
You'll note that our examples range from players you probably couldn't touch for Miller and Batum (Granger and Martin) to players whom you could disqualify by talent level, skills, position, or contract length (Maggette, probably Udrih, Lee, and by the way Hedo Turkoglu makes this kind of salary too). The Blazers would no doubt like Hinrich, but at the cost of Miller and Batum? Calderon raises the same questions. There are few perfect matches in the bunch.
The most obvious name is also the one most-bandied so far: Steve Nash. Were Phoenix looking to rebuild, assuming they coveted Batum, Nash would certainly be worth the money but also attainable because of age. If you asked me to bet money (knowing there would be a trade) mine would be on him. Biedrins could be an outside possibility. I think Udrih and Calderon would both stir interest but the talent exchange doesn't seem right as-is. There's not enough wiggle-room in the Calderon deal to add a player that makes sense but keep an eye on Sacramento like you were Earl Devereaux watching Flint Lockwood. That's another potential hot spot if Phoenix isn't the right call.
In any case, it's perfectly plausible that in a draft featuring few immediate impact players, with a coach and roster crying for maturity, the Blazers' most significant move on draft day might not be drafting anybody. The BIG TRADE (tm) is a live possibility.
Discuss who you'd like to see in and out if you wish. One more day until we find out what's up...
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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First!
Ellis can run point and score, volume shooter or not.
by Liggs on Jun 21, 2011 10:42 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Ellis cannot run point.
Q: "Why are the Heat losing?"
'Dre: "That's for them to figure out. We did our job."
by Oh. Em. Gee. on Jun 21, 2011 11:12 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
no he cant
i always wonder, what motivates people to say what they say.
what information, stats or argument can you present for this case?
no team in the league wants monta to play the PG, and the argument that you won back to back to back championships on NBA 2k11 with him as your point wont work
Monta had his shot at PG the year after Baron Davis left to the Clippers and it was obvious that he and the team would have a better chance of winning with him as the PG, so obvious they drafted a converted SG from Davidson named Steph Curry the next year.
Tony
but they want a high pick. which we dont have. but we could help them get it..
"Tommy: Did you hear I finally graduated?
Richard Hayden: Yeah, and just a shade under a decade too. All right. "
Plus, I read yesterday on BE that tony has a no trade clause
and added money if he did like the trade.
hg
he doesnt..
he is available… for the RIGHT price
48 Wins would be just fine
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 22, 2011 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions
One possibility you missed is the possibility of multiple players coming back in return.
One long term deadweight contract and one rookie scale value contract (or high draft pick, which is less likely). This is the avenue I think most likely to occur if a trade does go down.
"Anybody might guess beforehand that there would be blunders of the ignorant. What nobody could have guessed, what nobody could have dreamed of in a nightmare, what no morbid mortal imagination could ever have dared to imagine, was the mistakes of the well-informed." - G. K. Chesterton, The Common Man
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That would be a pretty ideal scenario
Or two huge contracts and the #4 from the Cavs with Baron and Varejao for Andre and Camby, enabling the Blazers to draft their PGOTF – or go creative with Kanter.
I would certainly eat Davis' contract for Varejao.
The #4 becomes necessary to have someone to plat PG, because Davis isn’t going to be motivated enough to even try, methinks.
"Anybody might guess beforehand that there would be blunders of the ignorant. What nobody could have guessed, what nobody could have dreamed of in a nightmare, what no morbid mortal imagination could ever have dared to imagine, was the mistakes of the well-informed." - G. K. Chesterton, The Common Man
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I think he would be plenty more motivated on a winning team with a sold out arena again
by Norsktroll on Jun 21, 2011 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Cavs were asking for Rudy Gay for the number 4 pick thats how high they value it.
No way the cavs do it.
by BestBlazerFan on Jun 21, 2011 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions
If the blazers move up it would look like this
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=66pgxxc and Toronto’s pick
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3kmsbsh and Toronto’s pick
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3z5vtte and Sacramento’s pick and next years first round pick.
by BestBlazerFan on Jun 21, 2011 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions
2 things
1st) I Love the first Toronto trade, I’ve liked both Calderon and Kleiza for a long time, and a lottery pick would sweeten the deal.
2nd) I don’t know alot about “advanced stats”, but Rudy has the same PER (13.5) as Francisco Garcia?? I wouldnt hate that trade, but IMO Udrih isn’t as good as Calderon, and I want to do everything possible to hold onto Nic
Say it ain't Cho
by Sean in Vancouver on Jun 22, 2011 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't include Batum in those trades ....
I think the carrot is for Toronto to get rid of Caleron, or Golden State to get rid of Biedrins, be able to not pick up Andre’s contract and save a lot of money – at the price of their pick. Giving up Batum in addition would be too much for #5, #7 or #11.
Diddy
I love me some Baron Davis; done or not … He’s a bonus for me. Camby and Andre for that package wouldn’t even get CLE at the table though, IMO …
by WalterJTellEm on Jun 21, 2011 11:25 PM PDT up reply actions
It's entirely a money thing for cleveland
They can clear their long term contracts. I do think they would want Batum though. I’d think about it long and hard, but I’d probably do the trade with Batum if it was the only way to get it done. Varejao would be a great compliment to Aldridge. He can do the dirty work that frees up Aldridge to be productive on offense and get more rest. We just can’t get by with Aldridge as our only healthy big man in his prime.
I’d say that makes sense for Cleveland. Get rid of their long term contracts and pick up a young, cheap, proven starter at SF which is a position they need to address and make way for their new PG Irving.
#52
wouldn't they just buy out Davis
He is overweight for the NBA and probably unfit to play.
The best draft day trade idea I've read so far is Baron, Varejao and #4 for Dre and Camby and #21
They’d probably ask for Batum as well. It improves our defense, rebounding, shooting and gets us a top pick. I was high on Walker and Knight for a while, but I think we should wait on the PGotF if we do that. I don’t think either of them is the right guy. Instead, we could go with a big, perhaps Kanter or Tristan Thompson. It could be smart to think about a full big man rotation sans Greg Oden. Certainly, the more options we have the better.
I do think Baron would play better for a winning team with a great crowd, that seems to be his pattern. At the very least he’s a threat from the 3 point line which will help space the floor.
#52
I just don't think a #4 pick in this draft
is really all that much better than a lottery pick.
"Every day was a good day at UCLA." -Coach John Wooden
by OswegoBruin on Jun 22, 2011 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I do like that trade
The only one I have seen that I would go for; the saying if it is too good to be true; it usually won’t happen. I am not in favor of Baron becoming a Blazer, but he can play when he wants to.
hg
I didn't see this scenario
Probably the most intriguing. Poor JBay, plagued with Dre again. OTOH, Calderon and Rudy could be a match made in heaven coming off the bench, depending on who we got for number 5 pick
hg
Well, dang, I missed it.
I see it now. Must have been reading too fast.
"Anybody might guess beforehand that there would be blunders of the ignorant. What nobody could have guessed, what nobody could have dreamed of in a nightmare, what no morbid mortal imagination could ever have dared to imagine, was the mistakes of the well-informed." - G. K. Chesterton, The Common Man
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Please no beno
I’d take Andre miller over beno udruh 7 days a week.
by moflow on Jun 21, 2011 10:52 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Why?
I don’t understand why people have such a problem with Beno. Why not?
He always looks better to us ...
because we can’t defend small, quick PG’s.
It has been said time and time again
With the rules of protecting the PG, they are like QB, a defender can’t touch them and they know where they are going and the defender don’t. A defender can steer them into help defense, if there is no pick and roll, but nobody can guard a quick fast Pg to the point of shutting them down.
hg
I don't consider Beno a small, quick PG
he just torches us with insane shooting
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jun 22, 2011 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, Beno Udrih has good size for a 1 and is just average athletically.
"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."
Udrih was one of the bright spots on the Kings for the last couple of years.
The growth of Evans and the non-self-destruction of Cousins was good too, but Udrih showed he was a capable NBA PG. Miller is certainly better. But Miller for Udrih and the 7th pick would be interesting for us. Though, truth be told, Sacramento has little reason to do this trade.
"Anybody might guess beforehand that there would be blunders of the ignorant. What nobody could have guessed, what nobody could have dreamed of in a nightmare, what no morbid mortal imagination could ever have dared to imagine, was the mistakes of the well-informed." - G. K. Chesterton, The Common Man
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Beno II
I’m not as much a fan of Dre as most Blazers fans. There are things I like, but there are things I hate about Miller’s game. I won’t go into details here. But I think Beno is a much, much better fit for Portland (and most teams) than Dre.
Beno
I like Udrih if the package doesn’t include Batum. If it’s just Dre and Batum we’re talking about here, meh, don’t move them for what Portland could realistically get in return.
Why isn’t Devin Harris included in this discussion?
Parker is the only player that really makes sense
Will SA take Miller, Matthews, and 21 for Parker? SA could use Wes + 21 to get into the lottery. We’d get to see if Batum can play the 2.
Ben gordon' contract
he is like at 10 million
maybe a http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3qztt7h but that wont happen
most of all, we need a capable center who will be on the court.
one who hits the boards and protects the paint. of the list above, biedrins is the only center, and though defensively badass, he is another injury prone big dude. i don’t feel solid entering the next season with our current fleet of centers. i like ’em all, but we need someone we can count on.
by williamswonder on Jun 21, 2011 10:56 PM PDT reply actions
I like Nash as a target as well.
It’s tricky with his age, but he would immediately become the best shooter on the team. That’s huge. As a playmaker, he’s even better than Andre. I know people want long term solutions at PG, but who are we really going to get right now? Raymond Felton isn’t going to lead this team to a conference final.
My guess is 4-5 years
because of intangibles, good habits, and a great shot!
If we can, let us get Nash. Even two years would be worth the experience!
Alan
he will be 42-43, really
he has already has one or two season left
by Daddygr33nJeans on Jun 22, 2011 7:14 AM PDT up reply actions
By what measure?
As discussed in the last Nash thread, his play and stats don’t show a drop off.
Doers & Makers > Movers & Shakers
by Adam Randall on Jun 22, 2011 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Who do you guy think will be better in 5 years
Mathews or Batum
Both good defenders and shooters, Mathews attacks the basket way better, Nic is 22 and cant post up Nash, still young needs to learn the game.
Batum
I think Matthews has a SLIGHT tendency to be a chucker at times and tries to do too much. However, he did play on a bum ankle most of the year so…. But in 5 years, Batum is 27. If he continues the kind of growth he had at the end of this season, he could be pretty good in my book.
I thought Rudy would be the perfect 6th man. Come back Ruuudy!
by llamaiguana on Jun 21, 2011 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice pick
If he stays injury free he will dominate, he can become the best player in this roster is given the time.
by BestBlazerFan on Jun 21, 2011 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions
injury free in portland is non-existant
48 Wins would be just fine
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 22, 2011 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Batum, by a long shot.
It bugs me that he’s been brought up as a trade stuffer since the season ended. I think Matthews is more likely to be traded this offseason.
Doers & Makers > Movers & Shakers
by Adam Randall on Jun 22, 2011 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Nash
The only trade for nash would be a Miller+Camby+Rudy no batum or mathews for a 38 year old that would be stupid.
Dave just made the perfect argument for "stand pat"
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
Dave
is ruining my buzz this week.
This is our last chance to enjoy speculation and fantasy for maybe half a year. I’m starting to think I should avoid Dave’s posts for the next few days.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jun 21, 2011 11:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Devin Harris?
It’s been reported for over a week now that Utah is looking to dump salary in Harris and Millsap. Two guys Portland has actually been linked to several times in the past.
UTA a no-go
… I don’t think they will deal with us due to spite
by WalterJTellEm on Jun 21, 2011 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions
That's a possibility
But like I said in another post, it really just depends on where Utah thinks they’re headed. Are they in full rebuild or just a retool? If it’s a rebuild, conventional wisdom would suggest they would take the best deal available, which Portland would probably offer one of the best with combinations of young talent and cap space. Who knows.
by Eric Loftin on Jun 21, 2011 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions
If they are making both Milsap and Harris
available, then I believe they’re in a full rebuild mode. Consider that to deal Milsap you must have decided that they picked up their power forward of the future in the New Jersey trade, and picked up two high draft picks as well. Further, if Harris is on the table, they must be looking a drafting a point guard of the future. After all, they have the same short list of PG’s available in trade that we have, and none are the PG of the future. If you trade Milsap and Harris, then they will be looking for youth and draft picks. And, of course, Kirilinko is also gone.
exactly
Which is why it makes sense for them to at least consider dealing with Portland. I think if Portland were to include Batum, not my favorite idea in the world, then it becomes extremely attractive for them.
On the flip side, they’re still P.O’d at us for making offers to their players two years in a row.
They were on my original list
I don’t know what happened. Added now.
I didn’t discuss them outside of the list because I don’t think it’s likely Utah makes a deal for our parts available.
—Dave
Don't you think Utah would love to free up some money?
If they take Knight with their first pick, why hang on to Harris, especially if you are a few years away in rebuilding mode. They gave away the young PG to OKC just to get under the salary cap a year ago. Don’t you think they’d love to save $9 million for two years for a PG who’s blocking their #3 pick in the draft?
Was thinking along the lines of
Nene using early termination in order to sign and trade. Denver doesn’t want to lose him to free agency and get nothing in return.
Signing Nene would make us forget about Oden. We could then use Oden to pick up a quality piece if his value allows it.
me too
But it’ll probably never happen. Denver wants Nene badly.
Sounds like we need to acquire a lottery pick to get Parker
Miller + Matthews + 21 to SAC for #7. Then ship the #7 to SA for Parker.
better be a 3way deal rather than two separate deals
"I woke up dis mornin' and there was croissantulas in my bafroom"-Tequila Johnson
by HurricaneDayne on Jun 22, 2011 12:30 AM PDT up reply actions
The days leading up to the draft are interesting.
It’s like contemplating Schrödinger’s cat, with the Draft being the opening of the box.
"Anybody might guess beforehand that there would be blunders of the ignorant. What nobody could have guessed, what nobody could have dreamed of in a nightmare, what no morbid mortal imagination could ever have dared to imagine, was the mistakes of the well-informed." - G. K. Chesterton, The Common Man
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Don't open the box, there might be a dead Claver or Babbitt in the box!
Also, don’t trade one big box for two smaller boxes or a box to be delivered later
by Norsktroll on Jun 22, 2011 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Without opening the box, the only thing there is potential.
And potential doesn’t win you ball games. Gotta take the chance that the cat is dead to find out if he’s alive.
"Anybody might guess beforehand that there would be blunders of the ignorant. What nobody could have guessed, what nobody could have dreamed of in a nightmare, what no morbid mortal imagination could ever have dared to imagine, was the mistakes of the well-informed." - G. K. Chesterton, The Common Man
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Oh, the cat's alive...
it’s just that if you open the box just at the wrong time, it dies
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Jun 22, 2011 7:17 AM PDT up reply actions
The cat got chased into the box by a Coyote...who also entered the box
Rod Stewart:"Instead of getting married again, I'm going to find a woman I don't like and just give her a house."
by 92wastheyear on Jun 22, 2011 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions
no thank you
none of those guys on that list fill the needs we have. and seriously, do we trade nic now, after we could have traded him for cp3? you think we’re going to get a ben gordon for him? that would be an awful trade for us. even monta ellis is not an upgrade. he’s only been good because of the GS system he’s been in, which has made his stats ridiculously inflated. his defense is mediocre at best, and he’s not a pg he’s a sg.
We are paying for not having played Johnson, Babbit, Batum more. Who knows what value they might have had
had they gained more experience at the “major” leagues rather than at the D league. This is the conundrum facing blazer management: win now with McMillan or tell McMillan to play the young guys to increase their value and probably lose McMillan even though management is trying to get more value out of the team to get the kind of guys he values so much.
Some will argue that McMillan is only playing the talent that he sees as “major” league quality. I would like to point out when McMillan coaches as he does he devalues the process that management uses to guage draft and trade talent.
What is an owner to do?
Trade Matthews. Trade Miller. Trade Crash too. Trade them for future draft picks, sign a good shooter, turn to Armon Johnson to play the point, turn to Batum and tell him SF is your position now do something with it. Use Babbit at power foward behind Aldridge.
This year is a poor draft year. So shore up the financial situation, develop players and be prepared to get something out of the next draft.
Some ideas I haven't seen too often.
Batum can be traded for another young player. Jrue Holliday being one of my favorites
Sign Batum to an extension and trade him. This would allow more salary to come back in return potentially netting us both a point guard and a veteran big man.
I really like the second option. Storryteller, is impossible to extend Batum and trade him? Isn’t there some sort of problem with trading a player in the first year after they extend?
by Oden Mad, Oden Smash! on Jun 22, 2011 12:24 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
maybe thats the Base Year Compensation everyone always talks about?
I’ve never known what it meant, but possibly this?
Say it ain't Cho
by Sean in Vancouver on Jun 22, 2011 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I know that extend and trades are a possibility.
Carmelo did one with New York, and I believe Garnett did one with Boston.
The question would be whether Batum is eligible for an extension or not. He might be this summer.
But even if all of that were true, you need a second team to sign the extension. And even in all of this, I might be way off, with Batum being on a rookie contract.
"Anybody might guess beforehand that there would be blunders of the ignorant. What nobody could have guessed, what nobody could have dreamed of in a nightmare, what no morbid mortal imagination could ever have dared to imagine, was the mistakes of the well-informed." - G. K. Chesterton, The Common Man
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Yeah, Nicolas Batum isn't eligible for an extension at this moment.
"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."
From what i can understand from Storytellers's website
At this page, i think batum is eligible for an extension this summer,. He will be in his 4th year of his rookie contract in 2011-2012, so he should be eligible this summer.
Without extension, he could become restricted or unrestricted at the end of 2011-2012 season (according to storytellers, the QO for 2012-2013 is 3 166M$)
No clue how it works with the lockout though ( at least if the lockout lasts till or after the deadline at the end of october).
Easier to decide what to do with batum once he has his extension.
For now he is a cheap and valuable asset, it is ridiculous to think about trading him espcially when you consider that the emergency for the blazers is to fix the shooting guard position (aka too many players that are not really versatile – roy being the only one that could have minutes at sf, none being really true asset at pg even though it has to be seen for williams).
Trading miller+matthews seems to be the best combo for me in both assets (expiring + affordable roleplayer/6th man contract) and value (13M together this season, including 7Mish expiring for miller).
Imo that combo would interest philly much more than a miller/batum proposal. And it would be much more interesting for the blazers (if that yields to holiday+x for instance, x not being iggy ofc).
Right, Nicolas Batum won't be available for an extention until the lockout is settled.
As I wrote above, Batum “isn’t eligible for an extension at this moment” and that’s true.
Remember, the NBA fiscal year ends on June 30th and the new one begins on July 1st. The only problem, however, is there’ll be a lockout beginning at the new fiscal year, so teams will have no idea what rules are going to be in place when the new CBA is ratified down the line.
"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."
Nobody here has really dealt with your scenario, Dave.
But it might be exactly the sort of roll of the dice Paul Allen might want to try. As opposed to the next 5-year plan.
As soon as the Blazers acquired Gerald Wallace, this rendered Batum 2nd-string. But he’s really the only interesting piece another team might ever covet — because of all that po-ten-tial!
Draft a rebounder at #21, hope Oden comes back looking forward to some Amare-style Pick&Roll slams — the acquisition of Nash would make Portland interesting in a way the team sure doesn’t look now.
Nash at PG would benefit Lamarcus, Gerald Wallace, Wesley Mathews, maybe even someone like Luke Babbitt — because he will get players the ball exactly where they like to shoot, while drawing defenders to himself.
Meanwhile he would instantly become our best shooter of 3s. Who knows how long it would last? 2 years? Maybe 3? Jason Kidd isn’t retiring and he’ll be 39. Maybe we could nab a young fast PG somewhere-somehow to play 15 min/game during the long regular-season grind. If not a youngster then maybe someone like Luke Ridnour, as a kind of Nash-Lite.
Excitement would be generated.
The Blazers would be feared — at least in the sense of being a true wild-card. If we stand pat, well, the limitations of Andre Miller are well-known.
ignacio
I would do this trade
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6xpp7w2
and throw in #21.
48 Wins would be just fine
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 22, 2011 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Phoenix wouldn't
I don’t know why Nash would. I don’t know why Portland would
Nash has no say in it.
Nash is still an excellent player and would make us better. Adding his shooting would be invaluable.
48 Wins would be just fine
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 22, 2011 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Except that Phoenix has said for 3 years
that they won’t trade Nash unless he asks for a trade. Who else on that roster puts butts in seats and sells tickets/merchandise? Nobody now. There’s more than basketball at play here. Nash is a great player, but he’s 37, and he’s the face of a franchise that cares more about money than basketball.
Indeed but at some point they have to realize
they arent going anywhere and nothing puts butts in the seats like winning. At least thats how I would approach them.
48 Wins would be just fine
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 22, 2011 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
lol...ya, and you're thinking rationally.
Robert Sarver doesn’t. He has never cared about winning, all he’s cared about is money. If he ever cared about money, would he have traded Marion? Let Amare walk? Traded Joe Johnson?
Apparently rational thinking isn’t something that a lot of sports owners practice.
by Eric Loftin on Jun 22, 2011 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
youre probably right
but I would still put it to him.
You can tell Steve that its just 5 hours from Vancouver
48 Wins would be just fine
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 22, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions
I thought it was just across the bridge? ;)
by Eric Loftin on Jun 22, 2011 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Nash seems smart
That would work for a LOT of NBA players tho
48 Wins would be just fine
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 22, 2011 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
How about this. Portland/Denver/Minnesota
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3mfzkqp
Portland trades Miller, Camby, Rudy: Receives Felton, Anderson, Harrington
Felton becomes “PGOTF”, Birdman gives us a much younger, and healthier, center, and Harrington adds some frontline depth
Say it ain't Cho
by Sean in Vancouver on Jun 22, 2011 12:49 AM PDT reply actions
birdman is great at 10 minutes a pop
any longer than that and he gets exposed
48 Wins would be just fine
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 22, 2011 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions
unrelated to potential Blazers Big Trades
just thought I’d take a look at the rumored Pau for Love trade, Minnesota has nothing but small contracts and I see no way they could possibly match Gasol’s 17m salary.
Then again, maybe someone who’s better with the trade machine can put together a masterpiece
Say it ain't Cho
by Sean in Vancouver on Jun 22, 2011 12:53 AM PDT reply actions
this is not a real rumor. just something someone posted on a blog.
minnesota wouldnt do it.
48 Wins would be just fine
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 22, 2011 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Calderon?
He is a better and more expensive Steve Blake.
Therefore, he fits perfectly with Roy in offense. Although Roy is not himself anymore.
He fits perfectly with LA. He can space the floor with his shooting and play pick & roll and pick & pop (he played very well with Chris Bosh).
Matador defense. Paired with Roy might be the defensive coach´s perfect nightmare.
Toronto is willing to trade him for various reasons: Contract, injuries, change of direction in favor of better defense and a more first scoring minded PG, diferences when Calderon has played with his National Team, which is going to happen this summer too…)
All in all, a possible an intriguing proposition.
Calderon is a chump and whiner
We do not want this guy. I have never seen or heard a bigger baby than Clderon. Constantly whining to the refs. No way. He and Rudy would be like having two teenage grils on your team.
Players for our team
If i could make a trade that would be for these players:Jamal Crawford,Raymond Felton,Kevin Martin,Monta Ellis,Rip Hamilton,Andre Iguodala,Nene,Paul Millsap,Aaron Afflalo…These players in my opinion are the best players we should target and could help this team step up and get much better..Players like Calderon,Udrih,Nash at 36,Ben Gordon who plays one game and then he disappears for the next 6 games are not players we should target….My favorite of all these are Jamal,Iggy and Nene….I hope we get one of them…
Nash is 37, not 36. And personally, I have little interest in this scenerio. It has the
illusion of a short term gain, but will never take us any further given we will still have the issues of the front court, Roy and Oden. We’ve tried for years to draft/trade for a PG, and it hasn’t worked so far, and there’s little reason to believe that this will change in one or two years given Batum will be gone and Nash will be of little future value other than as a straight salary dump. And, of course, we’ll still be looking at drafting the in the 19-22 range.
And, it could also be irrelevant. Nash has made it clear he likes Phoenix and wants to stay around. Moving to Portland for two years may not be in his game plan at all.
Gets him closer to Canada
so maybe..
Also if it gives us a 1 year window and we win a title, isnt all forgiven if we suck for 5 more after that. I for one would like to see a title while I am alive. I dont want to be the Jazz. Be great for 10 years and never win.
48 Wins would be just fine
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 22, 2011 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
miller, and rudy for A.Iggy
If philly doesnt pick up option for Miller, we can sign him for the mid level. At the trade deadline we hope the hornets are out of a playoff spot, and thats when we make the big move. We send Miller, batum, and extras for chris paul.
by Kosta0027 on Jun 22, 2011 4:57 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Philly doesn't want Miller and Rudy
They’ve got a standing offer of Monta Ellis on the table for Iguodala. They’ve also got a Chris Kaman plan in the works. Why would they want Miller or Rudy?
miller/camby/rudy to the t-wolves
lets get some three team going with the t-wolves. we could claim either flynn or ridenour and help the wolves send beasley packing. then we could try to get a proven big from the third team. i think the t-wolves would be willing to pay a big price to get a familiar face for rubio and rudy could be that guy. i also like the baron and varejao idea. i just think if we include rudy and the t-wolves in a trade scenario we don’t have to think about losing Nic
Or we trade Rudy to re-unite with Calderon and take their seldom used-big
Oh what’s his name? Or trade for Calderon and re-unite Rudy and Calderon here.
hg
Josh Smith
I’ve coveted him for awhile as a frontcourt partner for Aldridge, his salary is reasonable and he’s probably available right now so that they can slide Horford to PF more.
Which of our centers are you willing to give up
for an Allstar caliber 3/4 tweener?
The Long Con[tract]
Why shy away from a millstone contract when you can just Amnesty Clause it. This also resolves the Brandon Roy problem.
M, period. Fresh, comma.
Nobody knows yet if, when and how exactly that would go in effect
If the cap only comes down slowly over 3 years, maybe it’s not even granted now, but in 2013/14?
Hinrich for Miller + Rudy
then see what the price is on Josh Smith. If you could get him for Batum + Camby, the Blazers might be able to pull off the blockbuster.
Get it done... Paul.
No Thanks
Don’t think I saw one trade up there that I am excited about. I agree with Dave’s statement that
Guys making this kind of dough break down into two broad categories:
Players worth the money who therefore aren’t available.
Players not worth that kind of money whom you wouldn’t want.
Also, several mentions of people whose attitudes/style I wouldn’t want on my team.
If those are my options, stand pat and see how we look.
Wanted: A MEANER Blazer attitude! Knock somebody down and step on him!
The L*kers, The Heat, and The Thunder...the New AXIS of EVIL.
Not sure if this had been said already...
But my favourite part was the™ in the title…brilliant.
I hope this happens in the draft.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=5v5rv4q
We get Blair and TP
San Antonio gets the number 5 pick and omri, and DRE
Sacramento gets Oden, Fernandez, Elliot
Sacramento wont have a center after Dalambert leaves perfect fit for GO
You think San Antonio would trade not only Tony Parker, the all star championship PG, but also their primary backup behind Duncan who’s about as cheap as they come with his second round deal and massive output….for Andre Miller and Omri Caspi.
well alright
oops...and the #7 pick
If they’d go for it, sure. But why would Sacramento involve us if that rumor is a legitimate one?
why not
what if they draft a big man keeping blair doesn’t make sense
by BestBlazerFan on Jun 22, 2011 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
They won't trade Blair
That guy makes what, 800,000 per year? Look at the numbers he gets on that salary. Teams don’t trade players like that. Blair would be a top 3 pick in this year’s draft.
Ooops
i said the number 5 pick its the 7th pick
by BestBlazerFan on Jun 22, 2011 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions
that's probably closer
but again, you have to look at the players San Antonio is giving up vs. who they’re getting. Neal is in the same boat with salary/production ratio as Blair is. I don’t think San Antonio will give Parker up with anybody else thrown in, unless it’s Richard Jefferson, and at that point we’re talking about major money.
no Jefferson
We are already full at the SF position.
by BestBlazerFan on Jun 22, 2011 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Who cares if TP comes by him self
Its like the only trade where we don’t have to trade Mathews or Batum for a Star.
by BestBlazerFan on Jun 22, 2011 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions
If they do no deal
Parker is relay good but he is injury prone, for batum not worth it.
by BestBlazerFan on Jun 22, 2011 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m just saying that’s about the only player on their roster they would be willing to move with Parker in that kind of a deal. The cheap guys on their roster are much more valuable to them…kind of how Batum is more valuable to us than to another team.
I get what your saying
But there were rumors that we got offered CP3 last summer for a deal around Batum. We probably get more calls for Batum than for L-Train. I don’t think teams call for Blair or Neal before they ask for TP or Manu.
by BestBlazerFan on Jun 22, 2011 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
woah now
We didn’t get offered a deal for CP3. We were the ones who were trying to push that deal through and New Orleans said no.
by Eric Loftin on Jun 22, 2011 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Let me find that link
They said no because we would not include Nic in the trade.
by BestBlazerFan on Jun 22, 2011 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
We finally conceded and they got cold feet
But it wasn’t them that offered. We pursued it.
by Eric Loftin on Jun 22, 2011 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
we did purse them but we were not offering batum
They said they wanted batum and we waited to long then they realized how stupid it would be to trade CP3
by BestBlazerFan on Jun 22, 2011 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
So when the said we want batum
That’s like proposing a trade by saying “we want Batum”
by BestBlazerFan on Jun 22, 2011 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
that was before Monty was hired
Their GM lost his job right after this happened.
by Eric Loftin on Jun 22, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
If sacramento whants a true center for the future why not.
PG Evans
SG Rudy
SF Garcia
PF Cousins
C Oden kinda reminds me of a 2006 blazers team, a team with tons young talent.
by BestBlazerFan on Jun 22, 2011 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Trail Blazers: Wildcard in EVERY draft
"All is vanity and vexation of spirit."
http://year5000.bandcamp.com
Batum and Miller for Nash works in terms of talent, but not in terms of age. I don't favor it.
Just in terms of my enjoyment of watching the Blazers play, I’d rather watch Batum than Nash. But then, I’m not a “win at any cost” kind of guy.
WWKPD?
What would Kevin Pritchard do? See, we dont need no stinking GM to be in the center of every rumor do we. Trading up – call Blazers, trading down-call Blazers, need fast cash-call the Blazers, wnat a vet expiring contract…you get the picture.
after playing with the trade machine for over an hour, i came up with a trade scenario. i’m not even sure if it’s any good. i think i was just excited that it worked,
Portland gets
Hinrich (Atlanta), Asik (Chicago), #4 (Cleveland), #26 (Chicago)
Atlanta gets:
Baron Davis (Cleveland), Varajao (Cleveland), Korver (Chicago), #21 (Portland)
Chicago gets:
Matthews, Babbitt
Cleveland gets:
Josh Smith (Atlanta), Marcus Camby
with the #4 pick, we take Enes Canter or Kemba Walker
with the #26, Justin Harper or Reggie Jackson
by DefenderOfPants on Jun 22, 2011 9:55 AM PDT reply actions
It made me chuckle because
I can totally see someone spending that much time playing with the trade checker and coming up with this enormous, extremely complicated trade, and being proud to get it to work in the machine….only to realize that none of the teams would do it….except maybe Cleveland.
That, and the amount of trade scenarios people throw out this time of year, it starts to get funny after a while. Don’t take that the wrong way, I’m not really laughing at you or really even the proposal. Just laughing in general.
by Eric Loftin on Jun 22, 2011 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Hey
What kinda of trade do you have in mind that would work.
by BestBlazerFan on Jun 22, 2011 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
It depends
Whether or not the other team goes for it, I’d trade Miller, Camby, and either the 21 or maybe Batum for Devin Harris and Paul Millsap, but if I’m trading Batum I’d offer the 21 with him and insist on the #12.
I’d also look into at least talking to NJ about Brook Lopez or a sign and trade with Kris Humphries, and at least see what the price is on Williams.
I’d love to get Tony Parker, but I don’t think we’re quite there yet with the assets to get him.
I’d like to see what the price is for Calderon and the #5.
Same goes for Washington’s #6.
As far as backups go, I wouldn’t mind looking into Ramon Sessions or Eric Maynor.
I’d at least talk to Memphis about Conley or Gasol.
I’d talk to Milwaukee about Bogut.
by Eric Loftin on Jun 22, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
I’d just kind of take a look around at the teams that look like they’re going to go in a different direction, are in a small market with a big salary hit, or are maybe looking to dump contracts.
by Eric Loftin on Jun 22, 2011 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Conley and Gasol would be awesome - i've wanted those two for ages
but i think that ship has sailed.
i still can’t get over the fact that we could’ve drafted Marc Gasol instead of… Josh McRoberts.
by DefenderOfPants on Jun 22, 2011 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
I would love to have Conley with Greg.
I didn’t know we could have had Marc when we got McRoberts.
hg
we could use some McRobby action with our frontcourt situation
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jun 22, 2011 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Ya, you may be right
But it would be worth a phone call, just to find out
by Eric Loftin on Jun 22, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Bad trade
So we are trading Mathews for Korver
And Babbitt for the #26 pick take Mathews out and put Fernandez and it works
by BestBlazerFan on Jun 22, 2011 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions
No
we are trading Matthews, Babbitt, Camby, and #21 for the #4, the #26, Kirk Hinrich, and Omer Asik. Seems like a hell of a deal for the Blazers to me.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jun 22, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Why would we want Kirk Hinrich if we are not including Miller?
Why would we trade Mathews for the #4 pick
Trading Camby Would mean we are drafting a big man
This deal would work if we get Smith a proven veteran
very confusing
It’s not gonna happen so it’s a moot conversation anyway, but in this deal we get a younger PG with a shot who plays good D and can also play off the ball (Hinrich), a young, servicable big man for immediate frontcourt help (Asik), the #4 pick (Kanter, Walker, Knight) which could be an impact big or PGOTF, and we swap the #21 for the #26. I don’t want to give up Matthews, but it’s not a bad deal. Think of it without Matthews: Camby+Babbitt+#21 for Hinrich+Asik+#4+#26. That trade is so lopsided it’s comical.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Jun 22, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Take Nash off the list…doesn’t look like he will be traded:
PHOENIX (AP)—The Phoenix Suns again are shooting down rumors of a possible trade of Steve Nash(notes).
Suns President of Basketball Operations Lon Babby emphatically says that the two-time league MVP isn’t going anywhere, and he added center Marcin Gortat(notes) to the untouchable list.
In an email on Wednesday, he repeated the statement he made earlier in the day to The Arizona Republic, saying "We are not trading Marcin Gortat, period. End of sentence. We are not trading Steve Nash, period, exclamation point."
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AgsYvwkjQfwUPJAjvJmd1Me8vLYF?slug=ap-suns-nonashtrade
smokescreen
!!!
48 Wins would be just fine
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 22, 2011 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions
We are a paper team.
Sorry in advance for making this so long. I tried editing it a little bit, but I suck at being succinct.
For a while, I kind of thought great Point Guards like Nash and Chris Paul wouldn’t work on our team because our #1 player Brandon Roy seemed to thrive more with the ball in his hands than playing off the ball. That was reinforced when Andre Miller cam along and the two really didn’t seem to know how to play together. To the best of my knowledge, Chris Paul and Steve Nash seemed to dominate the ball more than Andre Miller even (that’s not a diss on them at all. Those guys are flippin’ amazing and their teams benefit from it), but when our Roy was healthy, it just seemed like having an elite PG that specialized in dominating the ball and creating for his teammates really would just take away from Roy. And I’m not saying the Blazers were ever better without Roy dominating the ball. I love that guy. He was so good, I tried modeling my pickup basketball after him (that failed miserably and I realized that I’m just a hustler and bruiser and I will never be a smooth operator like Roy). When he was healthy, he made his team better by having the ball and being so good.
These past couple of seasons with Miller, I think we’ve seen that almost every Blazer that isn’t Roy benefits from having a creative Point Guard who can create for them. Aldridge especially seems to thrive having a point guard who can get him the ball for easy buckets. At first I hated the idea of sacrificing for Nash when he’s so old, but after thinking about it, here’s why I think it might work:
1) The time is finally right to get a ball-dominating PG.
With Roy’s career tragically getting screwed over by his knees, he’s looking like he’ll have to learn how to play off the ball. He’s still got that pretty mid range shot. And his 3 point range isn’t bad and I think he could develop that to be deadly out there. He just can’t create like he used to. He’s kind of said as much a few times, but it’s tough to be one of the very best of the best basketball players in the world to only being a pretty good basketball player among the best basketball players. Regardless, the team no longer has to worry about a ball-dominating PG taking away from Roy. Unless he surprises everyone, he probably won’t be carrying a team on his back to a championship now. The rest of the team generally thrives in playing off the ball and working within a system. Once Roy learns to adjust his game to play off of his teammates, I think he’ll benefit from an elite PG as well.
2) Andre Miller is very good, but he’s no Steve Nash.
If we’re looking at guys who can create for the team on offense, there aren’t many that can do it better than Nash. Chris Paul is maybe better now and he’ll certainly be better soon as age slows Nash. For the next few years, I’m guessing most of us would agree just on the our gut reactions alone that Nash would be an upgrade over Miller as far as distributing to the players where they thrive with the ball and for being able to shoot 3s to help space the court more. Also, Miller is a good free throw shooter, but Nash is one of the best ever. I think I read in Bill Simmons’ “The Book of Basketball” that every great team needs someone to ice a close game with a slight lead with free throws and clutch shooting. Nash would do this so well for us.
3) Nash brings a winning attitude to teams.
I know he hasn’t won a championship, but I think Nash has been a little bit of a victim of a cheap owner and rotten refs during his prime. I can’t remember exactly where I’ve read it (actually, this was from “The Book of Basketball” too I think), but I think I heard that as soon as Nash showed up in Phoenix, the entire atmosphere in the organization changed for the better. Nash is just a contagious personality. He picks everyone up and makes an entire organization play unselfishly. I honestly do love Andre Miller and I would not mind at all if the Blazers didn’t make any big move, but Andre Miller doesn’t do that. He seems like a nice enough guy, but he just doesn’t seem to be the guy that changes the entire atmosphere of the locker room. The Blazers are a nice team. From what I’ve heard, the guys are all pretty good friends which doesn’t always happen in professional sports. But I think Nash could light the fire that we’ve been looking for a veteran to bring to the franchise and teach these guys to play like winners. Also, even though the Blazers don’t seem to be considered a selfish team, there was a little selfishness going on with Roy vs Miller for a little while I think. Roy might be more receptive playing off the ball now, but it might just be easier bringing in a positive, fresh face like Nash over Miller who is good, but who Roy has had his spats with in the past. Put it another way, Nash might be able to help Roy learn to play off the ball where Miller might not be a help there.
It’s point #3 that I think is the strongest argument for Nash. If he really can teach the team to carry themselves like winners, that will last after he’s gone. With older guys like Miller and Nash, their days of making a sizable impact on the court are temporary. So we need to look beyond that. My girlfriend and I for the past few years have generally thought that the Blazers are great when things are going well, but as a competitive game is winding down, the majority of the team tightens up. The guys don’t want to be the one who lost it. Maybe they’re too nice. Maybe some of them aren’t selfish enough to take a darn shot (EVEN WHEN THEY’RE WIDE OPEN RUDY AAAAAGH!) when the team needs it or maybe they need to “nut up” a bit (don’t know how vulgar we’re allowed to get here, but I couldn’t think of a tamer way to say it). But I think there’s a chance that Nash could bring that to this team, and once a player “gets” how to be a winner, that mentality seems to stick for life.
I’ve kind of noticed the past few years that everyone gets really excited about the Blazers on paper. Lots of comments like "Wow! Those Blazers match up against “X” team with their length and athleticism! They’re a good, young, talented team that has lots of promise! If Nash could show the team how to play up to their potential (I know we’ve been screwed by injuries, but it’s not just that. I’ve never been convinced we had the championship mentality even when healthy. You can’t just be a champion in today’s NBA by being good.), and carry themselves with a winning attitude, then that alone might make him a long term asset long after he’s retired.
Not agreeing or disagreeing with you.
In their first all-star game CP3 and BRoy really hit it off. no worry about dominating the ball just good hard BB.
Nevertheless, CP3 is a shade less injured then BRoy, but I would love to see them play together.
As Phoenix said Steve isn’t going anywhere, doesn’t mean he couldn’t play with BRoy, If BRoy can make shots, Nash will get him the ball.
hg
Ahahahahahaha...
I love this time of year :)
You know what usually happens? The one thing no one really considered :)
Go Blazers!
I KNEW IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
We ARE getting Chris Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!
trade idea
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6eml8vr
throw in #21
flip Oden for someone or a good draft pick
48 Wins would be just fine
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 22, 2011 5:30 PM PDT reply actions
Eek
You’re assuming a lot with what we can get for Oden. If we trade Andre, I’d like having the insurance of getting a starting PG back.
for Bogut I do it in a heartbeat...
regardless of PG coming back
48 Wins would be just fine
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 22, 2011 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Oden and a #2 plus cash
for Raymond Felton?
48 Wins would be just fine
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jun 22, 2011 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions
That could happen
maybe. But I don’t know, you’d have to get Oden to agree to a sign and trade
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