2010-11 Portland Trail Blazers Roster Rundown: Nicolas Batum
by Dave on May 15, 2011 10:41 PM PDT
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PrintToday we resume our post-season look at the Portland Trail Blazers roster, reviewing each player's year, charting progress, and evaluating possible futures. If you missed last week's reviews, you can check out Wesley Matthews, Andre Miller, Brandon Roy, and LaMarcus Aldridge. Today's subject is small forward Nicolas Batum. How did the Flying Frenchman fare in Season 2.5? Check out some numbers as an appetizer.
|
|
10-11 |
09-10 |
Change |
|
Games |
80 |
37 |
+43 |
|
Minutes |
2522 |
918 |
+1604 |
|
MPG |
31.5 |
24.8 |
+6.7 |
|
FG% |
45.5% |
51.9% |
-6.4% |
|
3PT% |
34.5% |
40.9% |
-6.4% |
|
FT% |
84.1% |
84.3% |
-0.2%` |
|
FGA/36 |
11.5 |
10.5 |
+1.0 |
|
3PTA/36 |
4.9 |
5.2 |
-0.3 |
|
FTA/36 |
2.3 |
2.0 |
+0.3 |
|
TRB/36 |
5.2 |
5.5 |
-0.3 |
|
AST/36 |
1.8 |
1.7 |
+0.1 |
|
STL/36 |
1.0 |
0.9 |
+0.1 |
|
TO/36 |
1.2 |
1.1 |
+0.1 |
|
USG% |
17.8% |
16.4% |
+1.4% |
|
ORTG |
116 |
127 |
-11 |
|
DRTG |
108 |
107 |
+1 |
|
PER |
14.8 |
17.3 |
-2.5 |
|
TShooting% |
56.3% |
64.6% |
-8.3% |
|
NETPTS/100* |
-2.5 |
+5.6 |
-8.1 |
|
PPG |
12.4 |
10.1 |
+2.3 |
|
PPG/36 |
14.1 |
14.7 |
-0.6 |
Click through for analysis of the numbers, some anecdotal memories, a final grade, and a look at Batum's future with the Blazers...or without.
The standout numbers to the positive for Nicolas Batum all ride at the top of the chart: games played, minutes played, minutes per game. Batum played less than half a season in 2009-10. In some ways 80 games, 2500+ minutes, 30+ minutes per game are victories in their own right. The rest of Batum's numbers are sketchy enough to shade that victory towards the Pyrrhic, though.
Batum's usage rate and field goals attempted per minute went up slightly as befits his status as a key rotation player. Batum was played like a veteran this year, given minutes and the coach's confidence though not all of the offensive rein he'd probably like. The problem with wanting more was his steep descent in shooting percentage: 6.4% in overall field goal percentage and three-point percentage alike. The numbers were not horrible, within shouting distance either way from his last full season, his rookie campaign. 45.5% overall from the field is acceptable. 34.5% from three-point land is less thrilling for a guy taking 40% of his shots from that distance. But the Blazers didn't fall in love with an average-ish guy at starting small forward. They fell in love with the guy shooting 52% from the field, 42% from the arc, a 126 offensive rating, that 64.6% true shooting percentage. Those were spectacular numbers. Batum fell all the way from spectacular to...eh. It's like thinking you have a prospective ace, putting him in the starting rotation, and having him eat innings with a mediocre ERA while losing 10 mph on his fastball.
Like so many other Blazers, Batum became more of a jump shooter this year, his percentage of jumpers rising from 69% to 74%. The effective field goal percentages on those jumpers fell from 57.8% to 48.2%. Another interesting group of stats: 91% of those jumpers were assisted, as were 72% of his close shots and 76% of his dunks. True, the offense is set up for the small forward to get mostly assisted attempts but along with made three pointers the enduring memories of the season--the great sparks of future promise--were of Batum streaking down the sideline for a sweet and effortless dunk off the dribble. Neither happened as much as memory would paint. Batum just hasn't shown the handle and the hard nose in the opportunities he's had.
Worse, Batum's supporting numbers didn't move. Free throw attempts, rebounds, steals, assists all flat-lined. Given the previous paragraph Batum's paltry 2 free throws attempts per game isn't surprising, but a hot young prospect should get more. Rebounds and steals weren't bad, but again you were looking for Batum to seize the game, to use his ample gifts to turn it to his advantage. That's a skill he hasn't mastered.
Batum's calling card, of course, has been his defense. He routinely gets tough assignments. In some ways looking at his defensive numbers is looking a gift horse in the mouth, as this is the guy you send out to guard Dirk Nowitzki, LeBron James, and Steve Nash. He's going to skew high. His defensive rating was completely consistent with his previous seasons, not impressive but not a disaster. His defensive win shares rose and were equal to Wesley Matthews'. But Batum gave up higher effective field goal percentages and PER than he produced across the board, a condition which was not true in 2009-10. Condemning Batum's defense would be harsh but at least one can say he didn't overwhelm.
The recurring question here is, "What do you expect of Nicolas Batum?" If you're looking for that average inning-eater with occasional sparks of brilliance, you got it. If you're looking for a breakout star and game changer, he wasn't. He wasn't even close. Batum had some of the best, most dominant possessions of his career this year. When he was on he looked more like an impact-level NBA player than we've seen in the past. But those moments were too far spaced and filled with too much down time in between. Getting more minutes and a bigger role he didn't fail but he didn't quite succeed either. Much like the team itself, the most appropriate description of his season may be that he survived it.
Where do Batum and the Blazers go from here? The immediate reference will be Gerald Wallace, picked up in a mid-season move, known for his impact play, and capable of playing Batum's position. But Wallace is a high-mileage player with a high risk of injury and thus game degradation. You can count on him, but not forever. Batum is younger and still has upside. Batum also gives the Blazers depth not only at small forward but defensively. Depth is not an attribute they can take for granted nowadays. On the other hand Batum was also (apparently) among the most coveted players the Blazers have in trade. It's doubtful he alone could bring a prize-level point guard or big man even on a talent-for-talent level though, let alone making contracts match. Nothing is crystal clear for Batum off the court or on.
The easiest road is to keep Batum and let him develop further. He's not a liability in any way. He's cheap for a couple years yet. Those flashes of brilliance were legit and this season was something of a restart for him in a career still in its infancy anyway. Unless the Blazers receive a stellar offer they're going to keep him. But he's probably no longer on the completely untouchable list. He might be expensive but the Blazers will listen.
Season Grade: C
Stock Market Recommendation: Hold (No longer a hot stock to buy, sadly.)
Discuss your impressions of Batum, his season, and his future below.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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Comments
I think it's worth noting that Batum is still very young.
He’s 22 years old and still has plenty of room to grow. Nonetheless, he was underwhelming too often this past season. Hopefully he can continue to grow and hopefully having Gerald Wallace around will have rub-off effect on him. Maybe he’ll develop an edge.
Here’s hoping this season was just a bump in the road towards his becoming a great/very good NBA player.
I SELL HERP AND DERP ACCESSORIES!
by Blazer_Fan_Nick on May 15, 2011 11:49 PM PDT reply actions
The thing that bothers me about this argument
is that, despite his age, he has played a lot of basketball. He played in the French league for two seasons prior to coming to the Blazers, and has played international ball every offseason. At some point, he needs to make the step from inconsistent role player with potential to a reliable impact player.
I believe this offseason is crucial for Batum. He needs to get stronger without losing his athleticism. He needs to improve his handle and become more aggressive. Essentially, he needs to make the leap that LaMarcus Aldridge made.
by hercher on May 16, 2011 2:43 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed, he has played a lot of ball.
But he hasn’t played a lot of high level ball. Though the international game has gotten better, the French circuit isn’t exactly renown as one of the superior international countries to play. There’s a large gap between where he was at before and where the NBA is. I don’t mean to hinge on it as an excuse, I tend to be very critical of Batum, but it’s something to take note of.
Agree with what you’re saying though. I don’t think he needs an LMA-sized leap, but a similar revelation would be welcomed with open arms. I’d just settle for a consistent fire, toughness and determination. That and a little more size.
I SELL HERP AND DERP ACCESSORIES!
by Blazer_Fan_Nick on May 16, 2011 3:10 AM PDT up reply actions
He's hiring a personal trainer this summer.
Batum played averaged about 18 minutes a game in his Rookie year.
He missed most of last season. Played in only 37 games. HIs avg minutes per game LAST year was only 24.8 minutes.
So while he’s played for the Euro league…which IMO is much different than playing in the NBA (thank God for Batum’s body) …for 2 years prior to coming to the NBA…how many games and minutes did he play in those 2 years?
Kind of like playing college basketball I would guess. And it’s a guess. It may not even be THAT intense.
So this past year is really the first year that Batum has played STARTER’S minutes in the NBA. He averaged 31.5 minutes a game this year.
And I am sure he felt FATIGUE/ aches/pains that result from the fabulous fitness level that the Blazers fitness/training staff regimen brings out in their players.
Batum is smart.
He saw what LMA did with his game after working with a trainer.
Batum wasn’t able to work out to build muscle last summer as he was recovering from a re-injury of his shoulder. He stated that he is hiring a personal trainer this summer and his goal is to build up muscle.
I REALLY hope that he does well with this.
I think the sky is the limit for him.
And I also hope that some of Wallace’s edge wears off on him!
by Natsthecat on May 16, 2011 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
also think Batum added quite a bit to his game this year.
He seemed to handle the ball more and drive to the basket more.
He posted up a bit..not a lto but this was new for him.
And he had to go from starting to being benched to starting to being benched…and did so like a pro.
Especially when the first benching was to allow Matthews to start.
I think he deserves a higher grade than C.
I’d give him at least a B-
Co-sign @natsthecat
He did improve: much more consistent on defense, and a bit more aggressive as well. Nic is… increasingly intentional about his game skills, and is committed to improving them.
Agree
with the last part about him losing a little of his stock market value since last summer but don’t think he deserves a C. Nic is still a kid and has already exceeded his expectations coming into the league. He still has 2-3 developing years in front of him before we know what fully to expect of him on a year to year basis.
A significant regress in 3 pt fg% (.409-.345) and fg %(.519-.455) are definitely a scare but nothing to abandon ship about, considering those are stats that go down with more attempts. And sure we have Gerald now and they place the same position, but why not have an entire fleet of elite wing defenders? Between Crash, Nicky B, and Wes $ we have a nice little platoon forming. Add a healthy Greg and LA’s much improved D, and I see the one of the best defenses in league.
We’re not emptying our bank account on him, he’s young, coming off his first 80 game season, and has leaps and bounds of growth in front of him.
"It's probably a twelve-day. He needs two days to wake up." - MJ on a ten-day contract teammate
by NorthWest Connection on May 16, 2011 12:00 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
which shooting season was the fluke
this year or last year
Fire Nate; hire Rick Adelman
(time and money cures all wounds)
trade for Iggy
goal for next year: go year without using hardship exemption
by thomasikehara on May 16, 2011 1:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Disappointing first half, but was fantastic down the stretch.
Definitely not a star player, but if you’re looking for a guy who can do a little bit of everything you can do much worse than Batum.
Interesting to see that Matthews scored a higher grade despite being just as inconsistent as Batum,
expectations
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on May 16, 2011 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions
and 40% from 3 versus 34%
"Say his NAME, Portland. Gerald Wallace is...awesome." -Dave, 4/9/11
There may be many unseeable problems
Of course the first one is youth, The second is time played, the third is how bad was his ankle injury and did it effect his drive to the rim. The fourth is losing his starting role twice this year.
Although he was thrown in as a starter because of Webster’s injury, a role he wasn’t ready for, his minutes was really low. Then the next year was the injury problem, which kept him out of the rotation. This being his first full year and with the acquisition of Matthews, which ended up shooting better, and GW, cut into Batum’s playing time and his confidence level. Whether it is true or not, in both cases, he felt it was a degrade on him.
Also, I think Nate picks on him a bunch, I read that Camby has to talk to Nic a lot to encourage him by telling him that Nate is not angry he is just challenging him to play harder.
Anyway, Batum’s year wasn’t nearly as good as we hoped for, but was still OK in terms of growth. It is hard to grade him on his offense, because of some of his hot streaks the opposing teams watched more film on him and focused more on taking him out of his game. He was trying to post up smaller defenders which he didn’t do bad at, but isn’t especially skilled at just yet. He had new rotation roles, due to injury and added players, and had to adjust to different roles in each and every game. He was used a lot as a stand in the corner three point shooter which he like all the other Blazers wasn’t really effective at. Was that Nate’s fault or Batum’s fault?
Anyway, I am sure Batum and Wesley are in the same group as is Rudy, on the inconsistent basis. and that is really the big down side of Nic.
hg
Good to read someone else write this.
The fourth is losing his starting role twice this year.
For an untouchable player, he has been yanked around and never shown the confidence that was instilled in other franchise cornerstones like LMA and Roy. Every speed bump has been met with a trip to the bench. Even when it was Roy who dragging the starters down in November/December, Nico goes to the bench to bring Wesley up, reinstating Nate’s favorite method of torture, the three-guard lineup.
Stealth > Wealth
by Adam Randall on May 16, 2011 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Coach needs to be sensitive to what works with each player.
Angry punishment may motivate some to hate coach and ‘show him’, while just defeat others.
And I am so bored with the stand around for an outlet ‘offense’.
Can we just try something new ?
I’ll simplify with a new signature.
Dump Nate
Poetry.
…I am so bored with the stand around for an outlet ‘offense’.
Me too. I intend on watching every Les Bleus game I can catch this summer, because Nico gets blamed for this, but I believe it’s a flaw in the system, not the player.
I wonder about Nate’s future in Portland. His contract felt more like insurance/incentive than trust/confidence. The team probably saw the uncertainty of the upcoming season, and wanted to be sure that they at least had a coach; the timing of the deal was probably to motivate McMillan to make an impact in the playoffs. I’d rather have Nate than nobody, but the poor showing in the playoffs has to have the team looking over the fence.
If there’s a chance that the team can identify a potential candidate this off season, and sign him to the same two year deal, they probably will pull the trigger. I bet Cho’s already got a list, and I trust him to find a next generation coach like Chicago did with Thibodeau. The old guard is passing on, and Nate is of that school.
Stealth > Wealth
by Adam Randall on May 16, 2011 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Nico gets blamed for this, but I believe it’s a flaw in the system, not the player.
“He disappears, he’s not assertive” we’ve heard it all season long from Dave and others
Well guess what? Up until game 6 Crash wasn’t all that assertive, either
Nate’s system does not call for SFs to take the all to the hole. We’ve seen it for 5+ years, now. Blaming the wing players for standing around is to overlooking the obvious
But Nate got his extension in mid-March. Yippee, the proverbial vote of confidence from the front office that what McMillian’s been doing since his Seattle days is “just fine” with Paul, Bert, Larry and Rich
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Nate’s system does not call for SFs to take the (b)all to the hole.
Exactly. Last year’s playoffs highlighted this when PHX put Nash on Batum. Nate’s solution? Batum posting up a la Andre Miller. No alley-oop, or pick and roll/pop, or any sort of motion-oriented offensive set. It’s an isolation play, ending in a jumper. Wow. Surprise, surprise.
Crash escapes the McMillan SF Trap by being a fully formed beast who does what he wants most of the time. Still, he averaged 1.3 more 3PA, and 2.0 fewer FTA per game in Portland than he did in Charlotte, indicative of a drift towards the perimeter.
I’m hoping, if Nate sticks around, that Wallace has a Miller-esque blowup, forcing the coach to open his eyes.
Stealth > Wealth
by Adam Randall on May 16, 2011 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Gerald Wallace has a history of being assertive outside of Portland, while Nicolas Batum ...
has been a listless player ever since his teenage years playing in France. Even back in August of 2005, one scout had the following to write about the then 16-year-old Batum.
“The childish appearance of Nicolas Batum was well indicated in his status as the youngest player at the tournament. […] every characteristic he displays has a considerably raw degree. Starting with his physical profile, he’s still a skinny player who has a long ways to go in terms of growing into his body. […] he features promising athleticism, but he needs to gain some explosiveness and reactivity.”
Back then, the thing that stands out is questioning his “reactivity.” It applies to this very day, too.
The following year, 2006, was when these comments were made by a scout concerning Batum.
"He’s not a guy who fights his own war. His only problem is a certain mental coolness; sometimes it looks like he’s not on the court.
[…]
Mentally, he looks a fragile player. Occasionally cold, when he’s not comfortable or simply angry, he seems to disconnect from the game.
[…]
But that coolness makes him not so tough, and perhaps just when his team might need him the most. He lacks aggressiveness, and his physical gifts sometimes get diluted because of that lack of tension.
[…]
He’s an almost perfect player when he’s motivated enough."
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2006-Albert-Schweitzer-Tournament-Top-Prospects-1295/
The kicker there is the line “when he’s motivated enough.”
In over six years of playing both internationally and domestically, nothing has changed with Batum pertaining to his on-court temperment. Wherever Batum has played basketball, his laid back, easy going disposition has tagged along with him.
There’s nothing wrong with Batum for being a mellow, low-key cat, either, but to ignore it — or to blame anyone other than Batum himself for his own inherent personality trait — is wrong-headed, disingenuous, or maybe a bit of both.
This is coming from a dude who’ll be the one of the first to rip Nate McMillan when he deserves it, too, particularly on the defensive end where he’s altogether flubbed up schematically.
That’s enough about McMillian, though.
Let’s return to Batum, who’s on the hot seat.
By now, it’s long been time to come to terms with how things are and, in turn, quit pining for some radical shift in Batum’s personality—especially since it’s just not in the cards. No matter how hard some of y’all may wish it to be so, that eight of diamonds, Batum, won’t magically become an ace of spades.
"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."
Shoot, I forgot to provide the link to the DraftExpress.com article from August of 2005.
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/The-European-Junior—U-18—Championships-The-Small-Forwards-1075/
Okay, that’s it right there.
"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."
Your comment got me thinking...
In my younger years, I played in Europe for a few seasons and two of those seasons were in France.
My predominant memory of that time is how timidly everyone played over there. I was constantly being told by coaches, teammates, opponents and officials to “calm down,” “relax,” and “take it easy.”
This always struck me as funny because I wasn’t playing any harder or more aggressively than was the norm for, say, college ball.
So, who knows maybe Batum’s passiveness is a product of the general mentality over there? Though, in all fairness, that was about 12 years ago, so things may have changed greatly…
Sucking at darts is not a super power
It's very, very possible that his relaxed style of play is a cultural thing, for sure.
That’d make perfect sense, too. If so, I don’t see him changing his ways after this long.
"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."
I can't help but make the Travis Outlaw/Martell Webster comparison here.
Trout and Webby started with the team very young, played below their potential for years and years until finally it was decided (or learned) that they were actually playing AT their potential.
Nic? I think he has already surpassed those two as a steady hand — even with the fluctuations, his lows are not nearly as low — and has the ability/drive to be a 6th-man of the year-type player, or maybe a damn-solid starter. Improve the rebounding and get that shooting stroke back, maybe get the stones to take someone off the dribble (especially a big man), and we’ll see something amazing.
"All is vanity and vexation of spirit."
http://year5000.bandcamp.com
A statement that Batum made was
Nobody in the NBA can be up for 82 + games, so instead of working on beint up every game, he tries to minimize his lows. Not sure what that means intirely, but it ties into what you are saying as not being nearly as low as Martell or Outlaw.
hg
well, idk if this is what Batum was saying
but I think that Nic does a good job not compounding bad things. Like you rarely seem him take a lot of shots if he’s having an off-night, besides say wide-open 3’s that you still want him to take.
I guess a less positive way to put it is that instead of playing bad, he just plays passively and low-risk.
"Say his NAME, Portland. Gerald Wallace is...awesome." -Dave, 4/9/11
neither of those guys were ever as good as batum
PHILLY!
by CleBlazer on May 16, 2011 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I think Webster scored more in one Q than Batum ever has in a game.
Perhaps a bit hyperbole, but not much. Webster was a good (not great defender), a better shooter overall and could take it the hole a bit better IMO. He never became nearly consistent enough though, one thing I see worrying signs in the Frenchman. I also really think his rail thin build is something he needs to work. It seemed anytime someone who was of average strength or better in the league wanted to back him down, they could do so at will.
When all is said and done I think Nic will be much better attacking the basket off the dribble than Marty
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
The question ought to be whether we keep
Batum or Wallace. We really should look to trade one of them for a talented PG cause our starting lineup should be alot better than it is and having a talent like Gerald or Nic on the bench when we could use them in a trade to improve the starting 5 is a no-brainer.
But what PG do you have in Mind?
Any point guard that other teams have with solid potential or is already good is either not available or doesn’t make sinse as Looking At Trade talk by Kassandra McIntosh states http://blogs.trailblazers.com/PublicProfileRoot/MyBlog/tabid/99/EntryID/2392/IamaUserID/15768/Default.aspx
Besides that Nic has value on the defensive end that most NBA players don’t have. Plus our starting 5 is OK in my book and Dre is one of the best, why do you want to replace him now? Our bench is what we need to improve so keeping Nic is a no-brainer.
hg
Unless the team has done an about-face, Nico is the SFOTF.
Wallace has been an amazing impact player for this team, and will continue to be into next season, but I predict a trade around the February deadline sending his, Camby’s, and Miller’s ECs out the door for a starting PG and whatever roster holes still exist at that point. Batum will then reclaim his starting gig, hopefully having picked up some of Wallace’s energy and fearlessness.
Crash is too injury prone to be the long term answer at that position, and Batum has earned his place on this team. Furthermore, Wallace’s fat EC is a much better trade chip than Batum’s perceived potential and skimpy contract.
Stealth > Wealth
by Adam Randall on May 16, 2011 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
.
Nic was always fairly unlikely to maintain his near 50/40/90 shooting efficiency from year 2, so it’s not a huge surprise that he dropped off. What’s more concerning is his continuing inconsistent effort on defense. He still looks totally lost in any sort of zone scheme and his help defense is quite poor. He also seems to struggle to motivate himself to bring defensive energy when not tasked with a “marquee” matchup, something that an impact defensive player can’t have.
i keep dancing on my own.
bingo
Another fan not totally awed by the occasional but admittedly spectacular play Nico can make on D. I see him get lost a ton, get backed down too much and give up the layup too much to be a truly great defender.
But....
He’s just like Pippin! ………….Right?
by JeffePortland on May 16, 2011 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions
He still has an upside
I’d point out, however, that the big stars often already show their stuff by his age. D Wade was averaging 26.3 pts 8.8 assists and 6.0 rebounds in the playoffs in his second year playing at age 22. In his rookie year he shared the spot light with Lebron and Carmelo but really that demonstrates my point that we should already be seeing a good idea of what to expect. Kobe was starting the first year of their three peat at 22 but of course he started when he was 18.
I can’t see any reason to want to dump him but if there is a trade for a marquee player and they want him no more hesitation please.
Grade C as well.
And Derrick Rose is 22 now
and in his third season.
by JasonCantDunk on May 16, 2011 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions
So he isn't the best ever?
Me: "I heard the BCS just bought March Madness.......the vote should be out tomorrow and we will see Duke and Kansas in the championship game"
by 92wastheyear on May 16, 2011 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Should have traded him for CP3 when we could have.
Scottie Pippen 2.0 is looking more and more bleak and his trade value has noticed this as well.
Still love Nicki B but he may have peaked and last summer he was hotter than Lady Gaga.
"It's probably a twelve-day. He needs two days to wake up." - MJ on a ten-day contract teammate
by NorthWest Connection on May 16, 2011 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions
hooray for reason
2.0 is nowhere near an accurate assessment, I always laughed at the comparisons : )
Nic was a bit disappointing this season
I still think this isn’t a Webster/Outlaw situation, where we are waiting for something that won’t come. Outlaw made strides in fulfilling a role for the team; but he learned to play, or Nate forced him to play, to his strengths to try to hide the large holes in his game. Webster lost his big chance to grab the job with a foot injury, but he never had the instincts that Batum has already shown on offense or defense.
He is probably not going to be Scottie Pippen as some have hoped, but his skills, his mind for the game, and his instincts lead me to believe he is still on an upward trajectory. How high he goes will really depend on his drive to succeed. I hope he takes a summer away from playing the game to hone his skills. For a guy like him who has played in so many games, it would be a huge benefit to come back a bit more rested, with more refined footwork/post-up moves/jumper…whatever he decides to focus in on.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
Webster will always be underrated. But Outlaw might be the most overrated Blazer in my memory.
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on May 16, 2011 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Funny interesting
Maybe expectations dogged Webster but I was always waiting for him to put it all together. The season of his injury it seemed like all forces were coming together for a breakout year but it just was not to be. Wesley and Batum have done things in Nate’s offense that I never really saw from Webster. I liked him and wanted him to succeed but you can’t blame the system for his inability to find driving lanes or open cutters. (Batum=open cutters and please use the open driving lanes more often. Wesley=driving lanes and please learn to dish a bit better.)
Outlaw on the other hand was constantly dogged by fans who wanted him to be something he was never going to be. Nate squeezed the most out of him as anyone will ever get by using him as that change of pace PF off the bench.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
Webster was a lot better defender than he got credit for
Outlaw had his moments – but I will agree that McMillan appeared to get the best from him.
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on May 16, 2011 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
don't overlook the importance of Monty Williams
NOLAs head coach made Catfish out of this world money with his one-on-one tutorials, and he had a big impact on Batum as well, during Nic’s rehab from shoulder surgery that led to those gaudy shooting percentages in the spring of 2010. It should come as no surprise that Monty leaving led to Batum struggling. This shouldn’t be fatal for Nic’s career, but a couple more seasons playing for Nate could seriously stunt his development as a young NBA wing player
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Blame the System
Nate’s offense doesn’t have set plays for the small forward other than the three pointer. Mates been quoted as saying Nic can get points in this system… but I’m not sure I expect Nic to have better numbers if the SF is Expected to be a jump shooter.
The French national team sometimes used him at the SG spot. I wouldn’t mind seeing a few stretches of him and Wallace starting together.
by Jblaze on May 16, 2011 7:56 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
If that is true
I don’t think you can blame just McMillan but perhaps the entire Blazer organization. He has been given the keys so they must trust what they see. What I fear is the diminishing return. We’ll see the last of Camby (in terms of real effectiveness) probably next year. If Miller stays that will be on the wane. Roy’s contracts busts the team capology. Oden is a huge question mark. Aldridge is not consistently dominant or clutch. No real allstars on the roster. So do we see a slow decline and end up right back where we were in 2005 2006 in 2012 2013 2014? What does this team do to get back in the race?
This team is far from being on the incline
Maybe with all the parts playing together will create all-stars. LMA can’t be consistently dominant or clutch if he is the only one that other teams has to stop. It is only Greg’s health that is questionable, but regardless of some players not having a history of injury doesn’t mean it won’t start, therefore in that respect every player in the NBA is questionable. If Greg is back, Camby is in good position to be a quality back-up center as long as he wants. Miller is not reclining yet, so he is still productive.
Staying healthy would be the first step into getting back to the race, We have a good mixture of new and old that will keep is in the race; What we do need is some quality and consistent shooters in BRoy, Nic, and Matthews, and some experience for Patty, Armon, Babbitt,E Williams and maybe Chris Johnson.
hg
You never disappoint
with your optimism HG. I just don’t see any championships coming out of the scenario with this team comprised as it is. I agree with what you said further up regarding Miller he should be serviceable for a few more years. I personally don’t see Roy being worth his current contract that should be the go to star of the team. I’d like to see him as the sixth man building a new bench around him unless they can use an amnesty. That entire bench you mention could disappear and no one would notice. easily replaceable with the exception that we don’t know what E Williams will do. I feel that unless they do what they can now to retool we are headed down not up.
@xblazerfan
With the way Nate uses rookies, we don’t really know any of the rookies upside; the things they need to improve on has been exposed, but with very little playing time, we don’t know if they have the BBIQ or mindset to overcome the deficits. Most of the experienced players are either too good or their upside isn’t that much better then our rookies upside may be. If you got a gem in your pocket and you trade if for a rock and find out later the Gem was worth a fortune (Mosses Malone), and the rock was a throw away. Then the trade was for not.
I have written an article on Platelet Rich Plasma, although still a mystery to me as far as BRoy is concerned, is still worth a wait and see. his little spurts of greatness this year proves to me that he can still produce, but is waiting for more proof or longer healing time.
Long short, I think it is too early to say that we are headed down or up, I feel for one more year, again, and again, we have to wait and see what we have in Greg, BRoy, Batum, Babbitt, Armon, Elliot and Chris Johnson. You noticed I didn’t include Rudy, but I am not sure what is problems may be, It was reported that his back was still an issue. If that is the case then he too needs another year.
hg
Yeah
I certainly don’t have the answers. I think Cho will take it one step at a time like the Wallace acquisition. That should give one hope. I know the shopping list of Back up PG and a big. There are some free agents. Doesn’t seem like they could do any worse than last year with the draft picks. By and large unless Cho does something to impress, I suspect another forty something season and a one and out in the playoffs if we make it. If they don’t reshuffle the deck pretty soon we’ll just keep playing the same hand.
We knew our team would be unbalanced after the Wallace trade
I think we all need to let Cho rebalance it before we make determinations about how we fare next regular season and playoffs. Having front court depth and a reliable backup PG could make more of a difference for this team than any of us project.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on May 16, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
To summarize Batum’s year, he averaged 6 more minutes per game but his true shooting percentage dropped 8%. Lack of offense from #88. Needs to bulk up some and come back with renewed vigor.
"You know, when you are in the game, you hear 20,000 people behind you, you don't feel anything."
- Nicolas Batum on playing through his shoulder injury during the 2010 playoffs.
I'm not nearly as concerned about Nick as most
because I blame scheme for much of what ails him….same as my opinion last year (and this year) regarding LMA – these players don’t take shots the coach isn’t asking them to take – but the shots are just all wrong (either too many of the wrong kind, or not enough of the right kind).
Regarding Batum’s defense….well, if there was one argument that is almost an axiom, it’s that the Blazer defensive scheme is atrocious. We know Batum has individual skills and has a high BBIQ – so if he is failing in the team concept (and the numbers didn’t like Batum this year), then why??
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
Hmm....
I don’t think any player NOT named Oden or Brandon causes more angst and diverse commentary than Batum.
He’s so often compared to a stock. Is he on the rise? Is now the time to sell?
I would of graded Batums regular season a little higher C+ maybe a B-. I thought a lot was asked of him and I think his role in relationship to the addition of Wesley Matthews, the re-integration of Brandon Roy, and of course the obtainment of Gerald Wallace was in a constant challenging flux, and I think Batum handled it well.
Unless his stock is SO high, that you can use him in a Slam Dunk for Portland no brainer trade, I’m all for keeping him. He’s a smart kid. Seems willing to learn and best yet seems aware of his weaknesses. I also really like the versatility his wing span and size and quickness allows.
Believe it or not? I also kind of like having the tandem of Wallace and Batum. They are both great players but bring different styles of play to the table. Stylistically on the court, I see Wallace as a soldier with a machine gun in a fox hole…while Batum is the deadly defensive sniper…getting the timely block or the big moment basket. I like having both these guys…
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
by Krang on May 16, 2011 8:31 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Holding an asset too long is never a good thing
Sports teams are in a competitive business, one whose primary goal each and every year should be becoming #1, period. If I told 100 TB fans that I traveled to the future and saw that this core never won a title, and that Pippen 2.0 turned out be more like Billy Ray Bates without the drug addiction half of you would still not “blow up” the team nor trade 2.0. While every fan is entitled to root for the team in their own way, the fact that winning is not more paramount simply blows me away. The widely spread trade rumors involving Batum over the past few years and our unwillingness to part with him even for true superstars is maddening.
More stats
Available at 82games.com for him (and the rest of the team).
I was also disappointed by his up and down season, mostly the first part. He had a new role, new responsabilities, and it worked out well to a certain extent. He has developed a promising midrange game – with a decent fade away, a promising catch and shoot jumper, curls etc – and he still shoots a very decent amount of 3’s (even if the percentage droped). He tried to play agressively, and he got fouled a lot more than in the last two years (at least imo, unfortunately i can’t find a stat for that) even if it did not provide a lot more free throws (and the other end, he had a lot of offensive fouls called on him).
A stronger body would really help him to finish better at the rim (as he missed some easy lay up and dunks this season). It would most likely help him to defend better the sf and pf position, even if it could hurt him to defend guards. I really hope he can follow a smilar pattern as the one alridge followed.
Looking forward to seeing him play at sf along wallace at pf more often. It looked really promising at times in the end of the season. During the play off it was tougher to see it since camby had often foul trouble and batum had to play pf. One of his biggest challenge will be 2012’s play offs, as he will have to produce with consistency. On both ends.
SG and SF
A three-man rotation of Wallace, Batum, and Matthews at SG and SF would be a strength for this team. PG limitations on defense can be covered. Pick and rolls defense can have switches. Big men must show, but not switch. Weak side help must shade to a big guy left on the screen who might roll.
With Roy as a SG, Miller at PG (and other noteworthy stalwarts like Patty and Rudy … they scrap and try, but … ) the defense is a zone and one that gives up 2nd chance opportunities.
by HoopsFan on May 16, 2011 9:11 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Like much of the Blazer roster, Batum should be a "sell now IF" player.
You love holding onto him, but if a team with a high lottery pick were willing to swap it for it Batum, Cho would need to do it to make this team better.
Batum will always be a very versatile wing player with a solid shooting touch. He’s NOT going to handle the ball and/or make plays for others. His ceiling is looking good but far from great. If you can get into the lottery and take a chance on a player with a higher ceiling you HAVE to do it now.
wha??
by Hipster Olympic Team! on May 16, 2011 9:57 AM PDT reply actions
The "Bold" type is back
Me: "I heard the BCS just bought March Madness.......the vote should be out tomorrow and we will see Duke and Kansas in the championship game"
I thought that might have been an error in the page loading,
or people figured it out an really want to be read.
Maybe (hopefully) they’re trying to inspire Batum’s play to boldly go where most men haven’t gone before.
Q: "Why are the Heat losing?"
'Dre: "That's for them to figure out. We did our job."
by Oh. Em. Gee. on May 16, 2011 10:07 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Seems like there's a stray formatting tag in there somewhere
I looked for an extra “strong” or “b” tag but didn’t see one. I know next to nuthin’ about HTML though.
Still broken
but I agree…you broke it
Me: "I heard the BCS just bought March Madness.......the vote should be out tomorrow and we will see Duke and Kansas in the championship game"
by 92wastheyear on May 16, 2011 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Naw, it wasn't him
I found an extra “strong /” after “no-brainer” in BBK’s comment above atomiccafe’s. I tried to turn it off, but don’t know enough. Hopefully someone else does.
Oh I did try to bold the "no-brainer", but didn't know it would goof up the whole thread.
I just thought I goofed up and didn’t do it right.
All in all though bold type is a lot easier to read with my old, tired 70 year old eyes LOL. Therefore, I am not completely sorry.
hg
It's easy to do. I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often . . .
And I find this font kind of hard to read too, especially if I’m tired.
i just closed it by typing "" in the body of my
“does this fix it” post above.
i like it here, there, everywhere.
Thx
Interesting — I tried that code, but it still showed up as bold when I previewed so I didn’t bother hitting post.
The fact is that playing great ball has no age.
Like some have said. Rose, Wade, Paul have been amazing coming into the league at a young age. Batum may have room to improve, he needs to bigger and more aggressive, but I doubt he ever reaches this so called potential evyone talks about. That being said if he could be packaged with Andre, Camby, Rudy, or Oden next season for an all star the blazers should not hesitate. It is always better to trade for a proven all star than keeping a player based on potential, assuming you don’t give up the whole team like the Knicks did.
The Knicks are still better for it though.
Look what Denver did in the playoffs. Having a “go-to”, all star player on the perimeter who can open up the floor for others is still a primary key to winning in the NBA. If Billups remained healthy the Knicks would have been more competitive.
wha??
by Hipster Olympic Team! on May 16, 2011 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
And look:
I fixed this thread.
Like Carmelo before me, I tip my hat to myself.
wha??
by Hipster Olympic Team! on May 16, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Denver was two questionable calls away from a game seven against an excellent OKC team. The Knicks also were not nearly as good as Denver down the stretch of the season.
i keep dancing on my own.
The Knicks have two stars and room to grow though. They need role players now.
Denver has a bunch of good players, is too good to get into the lottery, but can’t flip several of it’s ‘good’ pieces into even one great player. See Blazer roster. Andre/Wesley/Nic can’t be traded for a star, for instance. You’ve GOT to have stars in the NBA, and you get that through the lottery, star-for-star trades, or via free agency.
wha??
by Hipster Olympic Team! on May 16, 2011 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I would fairly strongly dispute that the Knicks have room to grow when they have two players taking up about 60% of the projected new cap. The problem for them is that Anthony isn’t really a “star.” Being a complete liability on defense cancels out his offensive efficiency (look at the Nuggets’ defense after he left).
You assessment of the Nuggets might turn out to be correct. However, they’ve put themselves in a much better position to pick up a star through the draft or by picking up a big contract/reclamation projection with all the savings they’ve accumulated through moving Anthony/Billups (think Memphis here).
i keep dancing on my own.
New York is set up to be exciting but not compete.
They obviously need time to develop and some breaks this offseason. At least their salary is finally going into players who actually perform on the floor.
wha??
by Hipster Olympic Team! on May 16, 2011 1:43 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Unlike the Mets
who will start paying Bobby Bonilla (last played in 2001) 1.2 million annually for the next 25 (!) years due to a deferred 5.9 million contract signed in the early 90s, that due to interest has ballooned to near 30 mil. Smart stuff Mets, you guys are killin it (literally).
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
That is an amusing story.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Bobby-Bonilla-begins-earning-%252430m-from-mets-051411
"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."
With Crash and Batum we are just fine at small forward
This is hardly the spot we need to be changing. Plenty of more expendable players to use in trades for greater needs.
Yeah, this season was a down turn – so what – Batum LOST talent ? I don’t think so.
Dump Nate
by Berkeley on May 16, 2011 11:03 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Batum does not fit as well without an All-Star level Roy
Batum is a very good player, but he has offensive limitations. Batum benefited greatly by playing alongside a premier playmaking guard like Roy, who could set him up. Without that guy, Batum is not as effective.
Neither Batum or Wallace are guys who generate a lot of offense on their own (in the half-court anyway). However, of the two, Wallace is better at getting his own shot than Batum. Some people will blame this on Nate, but I watched Batum as a playmaker for France, and he did not look any different than he does in a Portland uniform. He still can’t break his man down off the dribble or create space in either situation. So a lot of passing around the perimeter happens when he asked to initiate the offense. And I hate to break it to you…but if he isn’t showing this ability by now, he will not be showing it in 5 years from now.
If Portland gets another elite perimeter playmaker, Batum will be the wiser long-term choice. However, right now Wallace is a better fit.
Fixed:
Neither Batum or Wallace ^or Wesley or Brandon or Andre or Patty or Lamarcus are guys who generate a lot of offense on their own (in the half-court anyway).
wha??
by Hipster Olympic Team! on May 16, 2011 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions
LaMarcus can if someone passes him the ball in the post
if he is not double or tripled team or guarded by Dalembert. I realize that is a lot of ifs, which illustrates the dire need Portland has a for a guy who can generate his own offense from the perimeter.
by JasonT on May 16, 2011 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jerryd Bayless says "hi"
sigh
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
That unabashed gunner wasn't a long-term solution here, so good riddance to bad rubbish.
I’d consider Kevin Pritchard’s drafting technique his last few years with the Portland Trail Blazers to be that of a hoarder. Consequently, the sooner that Rich Cho takes out Pritchard’s leftover trash — including Bayless, Jeff Pendergraph, Dante Cunningham, Patty Mills, Luke Babbitt, Elliot Williams, and Armon Johnson — the faster he can renovate the roster. Cho is at three down, but four to go.
"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."
by AK1984 on May 17, 2011 1:05 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha
I wouldn’t mind trading those guys, but I’d say the problems on this roster are more 1-5 than 6-15.
i keep dancing on my own.
I think a better 6-15 would do us wonders
particulary 6-12
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Sure, the biggest problem on this roster -- or really any flawed roster -- is at the core.
"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."
His shot was off last year for some reason
He had a lot of open 3’s that he missed this year that he hit last year. That is troubling. He also is a little like LMA used to be in that he does not like contact on the offensive end. It seems to throw him off. He has a little bit of soft Euro in him and takes hitting his shot to make up for that. He is starting to get a little bit better at playing bigger in the post. I would say he is up to a 6’4" player now. :(
by LicketyBrindleDowntheMiddle on May 16, 2011 11:40 AM PDT reply actions
I give him a B-
He’s young and he’s needed someone to guide him.
Now he has Crash.
Keep him around and watch him blowup next season
Regarding Crash
I think Nic has the potential (wingspan + athleticism + hands) to be an excellent rebounder. I’d really like to see that aspect of his game take a step forward…it would mean more extra possessions for the Blazers and less for the opponent, and that’s a key to our success.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on May 16, 2011 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Point Guard of the Future
I would seriously consider developing Batum into a Point Guard/Forward. Same way we used Scottie Pippen. Batum can guard pretty much anyone on the floor minus the Center so from a defensive perspective it wouldnt be a huge transition.
I’d like to see him focus on his handle and passing skills. Being that tall initiating the offense would be a great advantage. Also Batum can hit the catch and shoot 3 pointer that Miller is unable to do. Thus when teams double Aldridge in the post Batum can be ready to launch a 3 and or swing the ball around the permiter to another shoot.
A new future starting lineup of:
PG-Batum
SG-Matthews
SF-Wallace
PF-Aldridge
C-Camby/Oden
That would be one heck of a long athletic lineup. Defensively in theory at least that is a lock down defensive nightmare of a group of other teams to attach especially if Oden can come back and be the defensive anchor we all know he can be “if” he is healty.
by GiftofGame on May 16, 2011 1:38 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Totally agree.
Hope he gets more P.G. experience this summer…not sure though with TP playing this year…
Dribbling and floor vision don't happen overnight.
Scotty could handle and create, but it took him years to develop those skills. Nic is about 15% of what Scotty was in those departments. It’s difference between a top 50 all time player and a top 50,000 all time player.
wha??
by Hipster Olympic Team! on May 16, 2011 1:49 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
this idea is crazy
batum does not have anywhere near the dribble skills to be the primary ball handler. the lineup you just listed would get pressed immediately and be forced to either call timeout and change lineups, or would turn the ball over at an unprecedented rate.
positions are somewhat interchangeable but there is a limit. that lineup would never work on offense.
Edit:
My last paragraph should read:
That would be one heck of a long athletic lineup. Defensively in theory at least that is a lock down defensive nightmare of a group for other teams to try and attack especially if Oden can come back and be the defensive anchor we all know he can be "if" he is healty.
They also can't shoot, save Wesley on a good night.
wha??
by Hipster Olympic Team! on May 16, 2011 1:50 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Based on this past year...
I agree that lineup can’t shoot. However this is factoring in Greg Oden actually playing. Big if I realize. The amount of wide open shoots Oden and Aldridge would generate by being on the floor together would be a huge help. Teams can’t double Aldridge and just leave Greg alone under the hoop thats dunk city. If they double Greg he can flip it to Aldridge who can shoot or go into the post. If the double Greg THEN try and double Aldridge if he gets doubled after Oden passes to him Aldridge should have a WIDE open Batum or Matthews to swing to and Gerald Wallace would be lurking somewhere for a catch and shoot or a catch and a swift drive to the hoop.
The amount of driving lanes and wide open spot up shots available with Oden and Aldridge playing together would negate all the last second shot clock winding out heaves we put up this year.
I actually think the lineup with Batum as Point would be able to hold their own shooting.
In that case
We have
Greg at center
Marcus at the 4
LMA at the 3
Wesely at the 2
Batum at the one
LMA is the best shooter we have, then we also have Grag, LMA and sometimes Mattherws and Batum for shooting.
hg
LMA at the 3?
That would be Wallace no? LMA at 4 Marcus backup 4
by JeffePortland on May 16, 2011 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions
"in theory at least"
being the operative words. This team has been mediocre defensively regardless of personnel, and I expect that to continue so long as Nate is the coach.
i keep dancing on my own.
this lineup would struggle to get the ball across half-court
and would lead the league in turnover rate.
Batum seems like another Travis Outlaw-ish project to me
Portland fans love him but he’s nowhere as good as they think he is.
Too skinny, too inconsistent, too willing to reply on jump shots. The hip excuse seems to be, “Well he’s going to get better – he’s still really young.”
Kevin Durant is young. Derrick Rose is young. Just sayin’.
Is Batum going to make that leap? You guys keep saying he is. I’d like to see it… Why did he stay the same or even regress in many ways this season?
Personally I think Batum’s career will be as the second or third guy off somebody’s bench.
The Leeroy Rule: being insistent >>>> being correct
So he is overrated because he isn't Rose or Durant?
Me: "I heard the BCS just bought March Madness.......the vote should be out tomorrow and we will see Duke and Kansas in the championship game"
by 92wastheyear on May 16, 2011 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Rec
such a straw man argument. Nobody is saying that Batum is the next Durant or Rose.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on May 16, 2011 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
no
but they are saying he’s scottie pippen 2.0. the point sticks, blazer fans massively overrate batum much like they did with travis outlaw before 08-09.
Agreed
The argument is that his potential is sky high, but it’s just potential. The Scottie caparisons were downright embarrassing. I have higher hopes than Outlaw but not that much higher. A little better scoring and more consistent D.
by JeffePortland on May 16, 2011 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I want to punch a hole in the wall each and every time I see Scottie Pippen's name ...
discredited in that way. I’m not a violent person, though. Besides, I’d probably break my hand and do some serious financial damage — albeit more likely with a costly hospital visit than anything to do with the wall itself — if I took a swing at the stucco here. That’d be no good, for sure.
"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."
Expectations
those who want Batum to score 20-25 ppg and be our offensive centerpiece will always be disappointed. He’s not going to be Durant, or Rose, or Lebron. That’s not why guys like me are excited about him…we want him to be Tayshaun Prince plus, the ultimate glue guy who has a huge impact on the game in all areas. Nic is much better than Travis Outlaw, he is not too skinny to do what he will eventually do in the NBA.
As Natsthecat does a great job pointing out above, Nic’s NBA experience really isn’t that extensive as this is the first season where he received major (30+) minutes and played the whole year. Things I like about Nic:
1. Defensive Versatility – can guard 4 positions. With handcheck rules freeing perimeter players to penetrate, a guy with his height and wingspan is SOOOOO valuable being able to stay in front, keep distance, and still contest a shot.
2. Youth + BBIQ: Nic is smart, Nic is young. Nic will get stronger and it will make a difference. Nic will improve his game (we saw a little this year…more flashes of big time impact potential, more post-ups, more midrange, more attacking the basket).
3. Can do a little of everything: We’re talking about a 22 year old (drafted 25th overall, as opposed to Durant/Rose) who has shown the ability to rebound, defend, shoot, drive, curl, pull-up, handle (specifically in the open court), pass, and play big minutes in big moments at the NBA level.
Prior to this season Lamarcus Aldridge had gradually added new post moves and aspects to his game, which went largely ignored by those who pointed to the lack of a “jump” in his statistics. Eventually Aldridge added muscle, the opportunity presented itself, and lo and behold we finally saw that jump in his statistics (at the ripe old age of 25, 3 years from where we are with Nic). I’m confident we will see a jump with Nic at some point…not to 20 ppg, but certainly up to the 14-17 ppg range. We need to see a jump in his other statistics as well, and I think that will come with muscle, experience, and maturity (more consistent high-level effort).
There’s a lot to love about Nic Batum if you have realistic expectations for him. There isn’t one Blazer fan that wouldn’t trade him for Rose or Durant, so I’m not sure why you set the bar of expectations that high for him. If there’s a deal out there that nets you a star because another team has extreme value for Nic’s potential, then you gotta look at it, but I’m just fine watching him develop as a Blazer over the next couple of seasons. Nic’s years away from his prime.
I also think Crash is a great mentor for him, and having both provides us with defensive chops, length, flexibility, rebounding, etc…the list of good things goes on.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on May 16, 2011 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree the assessment was a little harsh
But I do have to disagree with “handle.” Sure he is good driving to the basket if there is an open lane. However, he lacks the ability to change direction and shake his defender in the half-court in order to get the basket or create space. This is his biggest offensive limitation…well that and struggling to post up players like Barerra and Fisher (though I think there is more promise in his post up ability). Without a healthy Brandon, the Blazers are looking for a guy to shake his defender and Batum is not that guy. That doesn’t mean he can’t do other things, but he doesn’t address a major need. And Batum will struggle somewhat until the Blazers can get that guy.
"However, he lacks the ability to change direction and shake his defender in the half-court in order to get the basket or create space."
That’s 100% it.
"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."
See below
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I can get behind folks who "want him [Nicolas Batum] to be Tayshaun Prince plus" and whatnot.
You, however, are wrong about Batum having the ability to “handle (specifically in the open court), pass,” or anything like that, for it’s not at all a part of his skill set. Whether it’s trying to bring the ball up fullcourt, looking to initiate offense in the halfcourt, isloating himself one-on-one, or posting up with the ball against a smaller defender, his dribble is too high; plus, he’s usually unable to create separation when attempting to drive past an opposing on-ball defender.
In all fairness to Batum, though, Prince has those same flaws when it comes to having a weak handle and fuzzy court vision, but he was still a successful low-usage 4th/5th option when surrounded by players — especially a do-it-all point guard in Chauncey Billups — who complemented his useful, yet limited skill set.
"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."
Prince is a much better passer
it is not even close
by Oden Mad, Oden Smash! on May 17, 2011 4:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Player comparisons are very general
Nic Batum is the first Nic Batum to ever play in the NBA…in the future, players may be compared to him. When I say Tayshaun Prince plus, it’s a rough estimate based on role, style, ability, body-type, position, etc…it doesn’t mean Nic is going to be a carbon copy of him.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I have seen Nic run the break effectively
so I’m afraid I’m not gonna be sold on the notion that he doesn’t have enough handle to run the break in the open court. I never said he had half-court handles or PG bring-the-ball-up handles…just open court can effectively be the point man on a 3 on 2 break. I’ve seen it gentlemen.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Ok
reading my comment I can see where the “handle” aspect comes off as overstated. I agree with you guys that it’s an area of his game that is lacking, but I do think he can run the break and will improve with getting to the basket.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Nicolas Batum can run the break at times, but he's still got a high dribble when doing it.
Also, if he can’t take it all the way to the cup and has got to pick up his dribble, then he should almost always pass it to someone trailing him — with that guy most likely being Andre Miller or, perhaps, Brandon Roy — so they can initiate the halfcourt offense. Whenever Batum attempts to force some action by making a dangerous pass to a teammate who’s also leaking out on the break, that’s when turnovers occur.
"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."
love nic but....
I dont see why alot of fans in Portland are not open for trading nic..some say because he has not reached his full potential…with that same thinking when does one reach their potential?..look at what Wade, Labron, Kobe, Shaq,Durrant,westbrook and the list of 20 others were doing at 22….do we wait 8 more yrs to develop nic into a player thats going to give us 15 points a night? hes good!!!! but if we can improve as a team nic has to be considered in almost any trade situation…pointGuard,shooting guard,Center, NIc seems to work well when there is a star on the team that can help him, it helps him find his place, nic would be great on a team like the heat or a chicago but for him to stay here in Portland to try and wait for him to develop. well cho would have to do some maguc to trade dead weight like rudy and patty to get someone thats going to help us., we need a few more players and I am afraid nic will be the one that we have to be in on a trade in order to get them.
i think people are really over-thinking nic's drop in production
his TS% and overall efficiency dropped because he’s been asked to do more. when he was a highly efficient player as a 2nd year player people railed Nate for not playing him more, or getting him more shots. it was common to talk about how efficient batum was and use that as an argument for how he clearly should see more opportunities.
the problem with that theory is that much of the efficiency that batum had that year had to do with only taking good shots and never forcing it during limited minutes. there were other guys on the team to force shots when the obvious shot wasn’t there. when you increase most player’s usage and minutes, their efficiency drops. when you find exceptions to this rule, you’ve found a superstar level scorer like lebron james, kevin durant, dwayne wade or dirk nowitzki.
to use numbers only 4 players in the league had usage rates over 25% and a TS% over 58 – lebron, d-wade, durant & dirk. dirk’s was a jaw-dropping 62.1%. that’s still not as high as what batum had as a sophmore.
batum’s TS of 56% is still quite respectable but it’s a far cry from the 64.1 of a year ago. that should come as no surprise as the only players over 64% in that category are centers. batum’s sophmore year was a massive aberration. even though his usage rate rose only 1.5%, that coupled with an significant increase in minutes drastically affected his overall efficiency.
the argument that it’s about more jumpers is really just a round about way of saying more shots. all perimeter players that don’t have outstanding drive skills, which batum does not, will end up shooting a lot more jumpers when they are asked to play and score more. even among the elite 4 i mentioned earlier, only wade stands out with only 61% of his shots being jumpers. james – 69%, durant / nowitzki – 87%. nic’s 74% this year is a lot higher than the 69% he shot a year ago but again, it’s not all that high. plenty of efficient scorers shoot 74% jump shots.
to me batum is what he is. if you ask him to play limited minutes in a role like he did 2 years ago he’s going to seem like an underrated role player. if you ask him to play 35+ minutes a game he’s going to seem pretty mediocre.
i think his defensive prowess is greatly overstated. he’s a nice perimeter defender one on one and he can front big men in the post to deny them the ball. when he does end up behind 4’s, he gets murdered because he does not have the strength or bulk to keep people out of the lane. he’s ok as a help defender but not terribly special. his best asset on defense is his versatility as you can pair him with other good defenders and either fight through screens or switch everything if you’re very concerned with the outside shot.
this isn’t to say batum should automatically be dealt. however he’s definitely the 2nd best small forward on the team and his playing time will be limited by gerald wallace. if there’s a good deal out there for a productive starter at center or point guard, he’s certainly tradeable. there’s no question he has great value because of his contract but once that contract is up, that value becomes very debatable.
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