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Blazersedge Mailbag: Friday May 13th, 2011

Note: This post has been bumped to the top of the page. Scroll down for Friday's news updates.

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It's Friday the 13th and that means it's time for another edition of the Blazersedge Mailbag.  Don't ask me why.  I'm sure the advanced statisticians among us can figure it out.  Let's jump right in...

Does the ensuing success of the Mavericks make you feel better about Portland's performance in the playoffs this year?  Or does it just make you sadder?

I was mostly nonplussed to begin with and that's how I remain. At no point in the series did I think, "Dallas sucks and the Blazers should be walking away with this."  It was evident early on that Dallas was a good team playing very well and were not going to give up the series without a fight. Dallas continuing to be a good team and not giving up wins to other teams doesn't change that assessment.  I thought the Blazers played fairly close to the Mavericks in most respects but didn't know how to take control and didn't have the personnel or talent advantage to overcome that lack of knowledge and/or will. 

Dallas beating the Lakers doesn't make the Blazers any better in retrospect.  They don't have one more bit of experience because that happened, nor did they acquire new talent because of it.  If the Blazers could have won that series they should have.  The fact that they didn't leaves them playing second fiddle (if the couldn't win) or playing the fool (if they could have but didn't) no matter who else Dallas beats.

The one lingering sadness I have is that this was supposed to be Portland's year, the big breakout.  The playoffs were set up to accommodate that too.  Had things gone according to plan (read: fewer injuries) at this very moment everyone would be crowing about the new Age of the Blazers and an impending Finals series with the Eastern Conference champion.  Give me Greg Oden and Brandon Roy plus this year's team and I'll put money on them against anyone left in the West.  But that's water under the bridge, over the dam, and down the drain.  And that sadness is too general to be amplified by the loss of the Dallas series or to be assuaged by the cold comfort that at least they were pretty good and beat the Blazers legitimately.

Are the Lakers done?

Do they still have Kobe Bryant?  Then they're not done.  They're on the downswing with this iteration of the team but we knew that already before their playoff disintegration.  But it's a nasty habit of fandom to translate the last ten minutes into eternity forevermore.  Even if the Lakers come back with this same lineup (which they probably won't) they'll be a threat.  Count them out at your peril.

Click through for questions about trading Nicolas Batum, LaMarcus Aldridge's stardom, respect, strategy against Dallas, team identity, plus-minus, and more!

Star-divide

Would you trade Nicolas Batum now? Did his playoff performance hurt his stock? 

We'll address this a little more next week in Batum's individual season review, but since the question was asked multiple times let's jump the gun.

Batum's playoff performance wasn't that much different in tone than his regular season performance:  a few spectacular moments, some decent defensive play, stretches of disappearing.  The inconsistency is starting to hurt him.  He's young but he should be growing into a steadier, more productive rhythm.  We saw the heights of the ceiling this year, heretofore unrevealed, but we still didn't get a huge rise on the floor.  That's the next step for him and he needs to take it.

While it's fair to say Batum looks a little more trade-able at the end of the season than he did at the beginning--for the acquisition of Gerald Wallace if nothing else-I still don't think he's on the block for anything less than a spectacular offer.  As long as there's some forward progress the Blazers can expect more.  Expectation is a viable reason to keep a guy who has shown flashes of brilliance to warrant it, especially when he hasn't played that long.  Also consider this:  not only do Batum and Wallace play well together but they're great insurance for each other.  At what other position are the Blazers lock-tight secure?  Point Guard:  Miller and ???  Shooting Guard:  Matthews? and Roy???  Power Forward:  Aldridge and nuttin'.  Center:  Camby???  Oden????????  With these two players Portland has multi-position-ready, talent-laden depth.   This isn't 2009.  That's not something to be taken lightly.

LaMarcus Aldridge really broke out in January/February, but I'm concerned with how he played in March and absolutely the playoffs. I can't recall one time in the series against Dallas that he attacked the rim from a guarded post position the way that he did when he was building his All-Star credentials and the national media was proclaiming that he finally made the leap. Instead, this playoff series we were treated to the same long jumpers, turnarounds and fade away hook shots that we've seen from Aldridge for the past few years. So, the question is - was that run earlier in the season ultimate an outlier, or did he really change what type of player he is? Did Brandon Roy's return have anything to do with Aldridge's dip in aggressiveness? Is he really a #1 type of guy, or just playing one on TV?

No matter how good your competition in the regular season, the playoffs are a different animal.  The opponent is prepared for you.  After Aldridge's big scoring efforts in the first two games Dallas cranked down on him, staying in front of him on the perimeter, forcing him to cut sideways across the middle of the lane if he drove, then making him loft running hook shots over double defenders.  His teammates didn't help clear that lane by making outside shots.  Anyone would have trouble scoring under those conditions.  However Aldridge also rushed plenty of shots over non-shot-blockers and looked more shy than confident.  If he shook defenders and got free it was almost always on a jumper and almost never in the lane.

This is pretty consistent with the LaMarcus Aldridge story.  The guy has a great body and he's talented.  He's worked hard to become a productive player.  That combination of gifts and effort spell "Star".  But he's not an explosive star.  He's not a take charge and dominate star.  My old friend Gavin Dawson used to say the next fast-twitch move Aldridge makes will be his first.  This applies to more than just his physical attributes.  His style of play and demeanor are smooth.  But smooth doesn't make you a superstar in this league.  Smooth has to be followed up by nasty, imposing, and completely unstoppable.  That's not LMA.

Aldridge is a #1 guy, perfectly capable of scoring 22 a night, perfectly capable of dropping 40 on you.  But he's not THE #1 guy in the way that Kobe and LeBron--or even Kevin Garnett and Brandon Roy--are.  That's why Blazer fans are hoping that Greg Oden can add some size and inside play, Gerald Wallace some explosiveness and nastiness, the wings some outside shooting, Andre Miller some leading passes, and maybe even Brandon Roy some clutch crunch-time buckets.  Aldridge more or less needs all of those things to make his 20+ per game tell.

One of the ways LMA could step up to that game dominating level is to keep scoring the smooth 20 on offense but get really intense on defense.  You don't need permission or help and he's got most of the physical tools to become a nasty defender, especially off-ball.  The non-fast-twitch thing will hurt the shot blocking, but he could get up in people's grills more than he does with those long arms and good speed for a 6'10" guy.

When Dirk was torching us in the 4th quarter of every game, why didn't we double team him like they did to Aldridge?

Dallas hit every jumper they threw up.  Portland was dying from the poison they picked either way.  So they decided to defend straight up, hopefully force Dirk Nowitzki into tough jumpers, and then be in better position for rebounding having not sent help.  (When you have to run a second guy out to the perimeter you usually weaken your rebounding position.)  Sadly Dirk hit plenty of those jumpers and the Mavericks got the rebound anyway.  On the other end Aldridge couldn't get up clean shots and Portland's perimeter players were hit and miss...mostly miss.  Thus the Mavs kept double-teaming effectively while the Blazers couldn't.

Is it fair to question the Blazers "hearts" in the recent playoff series? I felt they were out-hustled by Dallas throughout.

Depends on what you mean by heart.  Portland wanted to win.  They battled back from difficult situations to keep games close.  They pulled out Game 4 against impossible odds.  But Dallas did want it more and willed it more.  The Mavericks KNEW they weren't going out in the first round this year.  The Blazers hoped they weren't.  There was a difference.  Maybe the Blazers will prepare to KNOW next season.

Another key factor was Dallas' made shots.  Jason Terry, Jason Kidd, and Tyson Chandler made a lot of hard work by the Blazers go down the drain.  When Dallas defended well they were usually rewarded with a rebound.  The Blazers defended well only to have Dallas hit a jumper or grab the offensive rebound.  At some point your intensity dims in that situation.  That's just human nature.

I think the Blazers did show a lack of heart/intensity at a couple points, most notably the fourth quarter of Game 2.  That was a sad performance.  How this series could have swung had they played a great 12 minutes of basketball instead of a halfway indecent 12 minutes.

At the start of the season the big PR push was "Now" as it was assumed we'd have a healthy Roy, Aldridge, and Oden at some point. With the Roy/Oden news it became courage, strength, or some other vague concept of unity through adversity. With the emergence of LaMarcus, and the addition of Wallace, it was "Right Team, Right Direction, Right Now." Yet here we are, after a bitter game 6 loss (again), at home (again), where the Blazers fell short in almost every category, and the two games we did win took herculean efforts. What do the Blazers have to do, aside from a new slogan (don't get me started on uprise), to not end up in the exact same place for a fourth year running?

The Blazers don't need slogans.  The Blazers can't hold onto a "now" that was supposed to come and didn't.  The Blazers have to start winning whatever it takes.  48 wins is decent, but they were aiming for 55+ and that's still the goal.  How to get there is the billion dollar question.  The only certain answer right now is health.  If that's not forthcoming this incarnation of the Blazers reminds me of the early 80's teams, pre-Drexler.  They had some nice players like Jim Paxson, Mychal Thompson, Fat Lever, Calvin Natt.  But they didn't have the right mix nor the dominant leader nor the mindset to rise above their talent level and that talent level just wasn't enough to take them beyond good.  If they never get healthy this team will probably field an All-Star or two and not get far past the first round.  The only way out of that pattern is to manufacture a blockbuster trade but the kind of players Portland needs to get over the top in the absence of Roy and Oden aren't available and would come at a cost that would pauperize the team.

If that extended run of good-but-not-great play happens I'm not sure that marketing can come up with a slogan that could sweetly frost the cake of bitterness enough to make it palatable.  They've got a couple more years before we reach that conclusion firmly though, so maybe for now they should go with, "It could happen!" and leave it at that.

Do the Trailblazers have an (on-court) identity?  If you were talking to a friend who's a casual fan and doesn't watch our team how would you describe the Blazers in one or two sentences?  A lot of the great teams are easy to describe: "Kobe (superstar) and a bunch of big dudes."  "Tough defense and veteran shooters."  "Three mega stars running fast, and a bunch of role players."  The playoffs showed a team that's confused about who option #1, #2, and #3 are, the style they play, and who leads the team in crunch time.  We talk about inconsistency all the time, but doesn't this team have to decide who they are and commit to it before they can do it every night?  Is it a mental issue on the players, coaches not laying out a clear vision, or is the roster simply not strong enough to win one single way night in and night out?

They're trying to develop one.  The key planks are tall, skilled defenders causing turnovers, rebounding, and unselfish passing leading to open shots that can be hit anywhere on the court.  They have the turnovers, were shaky on the rebounding (also allowing too high of a shooting percentage when they couldn't get the turnover), and got the unselfish part right but didn't hit enough of the shots to make it tell. 

Sum this all up and you have "Game Control through Ball Control".  Portland wants to get the ball from you and make you work hard (and usually get scored on) to get it back.  As soon as the other team controls the boards, doesn't commit turnovers, or forces the Blazers into one-on-one play Portland's identity is lost and they usually lose.  

Is Portland among the most disrespected franchises in the league by the refs, the media, just about everyone who's not a fan of the team already?

Disrespected how?  What have the Blazers done to merit respect or attention or favor?  They've lost in the first round three straight years.  Yes there have been injuries, but blah blah blah.  The only thing that earns respect for non-marquee teams (read:  Lakers and Knicks) is winning.  When the Blazers win they will get respect.  Until then, forget about it.  Asking for it only seems pathetic.

The team needs to understand this clearly.  By extension the fan base should too.  You get NOTHING ON CREDIT in this league.  What people perceive you will do someday means zero.  What people wish you could have done "if only" means even less.  The Baby Bulls found that out.  Chicago was destined for greatness, then the world fell apart from them.  They got their acts together, drafted well, now they're in the Eastern Conference Finals as the #1 seed and they're getting mad respect.  Many people have Miami tabbed as the underdog in the forthcoming series.  Do that and the Trail Blazers will get noticed. 

As I said above, had the injury situation been different the Blazers would be getting that same notice this year, would be the clear favorites coming out of the West, and people would be talking about a Blazers-Bulls Finals series before the Conference Finals had even started.  But that didn't happen.  Until it does, all the "respect" in the world is empty anyway.  Would it really make you feel better to hear Jon Barry or Kenny Smith say the Blazers are a really good team underneath all those health problems and it's sad what happened to them?  Let the team be remembered when they're dominating and let them be left alone otherwise.

There's been some debate about plus-minus and like stats around the site lately.  What's your take?

All stats lie.  People want to point to numbers as the final arbiter of an argument but those numbers were created and valued by people the same as eye-measured benchmarks.  The advantage of numbers comes in balancing all of the untrained eye testing out there, as we all start from the same base with hard statistics whereas relatively few people have the vision to see the game correctly (meaningfully) with consistent excellence.  But starting from a higher base level of knowledge doesn't mean that the upper reaches of that knowledge are any more perfect than that gained through corresponding eye measurements.  Both are limited by the analyst's value judgment in the creation of the measure and in its interpretation.  The key to prosperity on each of these parallel roads is the same:  accepting that your data is imperfect/biased and understanding specifically how, the better to know what you're measuring and what you're not.  No measurement--eye or mathematical--does everything.  You want to mine your measure for its strengths and discard it in favor of a better when your question is beyond its ability to answer.

Plus-minus and allied stats attempt to measure an individual's effect on the system rather than a specific part.  You can say a player got 10 rebounds, but how did that affect the game?  By measuring points for and points against when a player is on the floor you start to get an idea of how that player affected the bottom line.  If a guy gets 10 rebounds consistently but the team falls behind by a point per minute when he's on the floor, maybe those rebounds aren't so valuable. 

The problem is, how do you know it was that guy and not someone else causing the deficit?  Maybe the rebounder gets subbed in with Lazy McDefenseless who allows an opposing gunner six open threes in a row.  That's not the fault of the board man but plus-minus will paint him with the same incriminating brush as his teammate.

Plus-minus lies like a mug-mug when the sample size is small.  In an isolated incident there's simply no way to filter out the actions of teammates and opponents to pin causation on a single player.  Your plus-minus is going to look different against Dallas than Sacramento, against the first unit than the second, when you're sick versus when you feel great, when you're playing alongside certain guys and not others.  But over the course of an entire season, playing against every opponent scheduled, playing with a variety of teammates under conditions that can be termed normal when spread out over an entire year, it starts to take on meaning.  The exterior factors don't disappear, but they average out.  If you're saying, "This happened because of my teammate and this happened because of the opponent and this happened because it was Wednesday and this happened because the ball was too slippery and this happened because of the refs" over the course of an entire season you have to start asking, "OK...in what world do things like that not happen?  And why was that other guy able to have a more positive effect on the bottom line when all of those things were happening to him too?"

Plus-minus doesn't do well when you narrow it down to decimal points.  The difference between a +3.6 and +3.8 isn't worth debating over.  Plus-minus won't tell you exactly what is going right or wrong.  Plus-minus won't tell you conclusively how a player would perform if taken out of their current situation and placed in another, say in a trade.  Plus-minus is NOT a conversation-ender.  It's not a measure of absolute value by any means.

The best way to look at plus-minus is as a question mark or exclamation point after all of the other stats.  A guy with a bunch of great numbers plus a high plus-minus gets some emphasis after the analysis.  A guy with great numbers and a low plus-minus gets at least a "?" and maybe a cautionary flag that there's something beyond the numbers you can't see.   It's up to you to figure out whether it's an aspect of his game that's not showing up in the numbers, the teammates he's playing with, or what. But at least the stat leads you to ask that question.

Using plus-minus a player's body of work can be compared against teammates in broad strokes.  Plus-minus can also be useful year-to-year, judging whether a player got better or better acclimated, adapting to a new role or system.   LaMarcus Aldridge's high plus-minus does both, helping us understand that his otherwise-impressive stats weren't lying.  Something went really, really right for him this year and it translated into a huge team benefit.  But it would be laughable to look at the plus-minus of all players around the league and decide that Aldridge is the best of them all because he's at the top of the league in a certain version of the stat.  Aldridge for LeBron still won't fly.

As long as you understand the questions plus-minus and associated stats are leading you to-and as long as you understand how they're trying to lie to you, or at least seduce you into seeming-obvious-but-wrong correlations-they're great to play with and can be educational.

I didn't get through even a tithe of the questions in the inbox, but if you have one to add go ahead and send it to the e-mail address below.  Be sure to mark "Mailbag" in the subject line so I can sort easily.

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)

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The best way to aquire a replacement for Roy is

through the draft and we’d need a huge amount of luck to get that All-Star caliber talent without giving up Aldridge or Wallace.

by VinnyB on May 13, 2011 12:49 AM PDT reply actions  

elliot williams could be interesting next year

i find it hard to believe that the blazers screwed up on BOTH 1st round picks.

Resident Smartass.
and my residency is Blazersedge.com

by Devyn on May 13, 2011 3:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't see it mattering to Nate though.

The guy just does not know how to trust rookies at all. Only Roy and Aldridge were the exceptions the rest he has treated poorly even if they didn’t deserve a hole lot better. So even if Elliot was available to play, Nate wouldn’t have even looked in his direction. Hollins over at Memphis does not have a problem playing his 2nd round pick in the Playoffs and big minutes too so why can’t Nate?
We aren’t going anywhere with Nate which makes watching teams like OKC and the Grizzles doing so well, really hard to stomach. Hollins has been playing Vasquez all year so now that he gets a chance in the Playoffs its a pretty easy transition unlike what is going on here with both Babbitt and Mills. Playing Mills 5-7 minutes a night isn’t long enough to get going so its really down to a lack of trust on Nate’s part that our rookies haven’t done well on the big stage.

by VinnyB on May 13, 2011 5:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

It is Nate's job to win games.

If you put a rookie in, but somebody else that is on the bench can produce more then you have to go with the player that produces more at that moment. When Armon was having a good game, he was left in the game to learn to produce, when Patty was having a good game, he was left in the game, but when their rookie talent was challenged by experience talent and they wasn’t producing then like most Nate put the experience Dre back in the game.

It is true that Nate doesn’t trust his rookies, but I trust Nate to make good decisions by watching a bigger example size then a good game.

 IMO, if a rookie plays good they get rewarded if not they get benched.

hg

by BBK on May 13, 2011 6:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Playoff wins > Regular season wins

This is a philosophical issue to me, and I’m curious what you think, hg (this is 500dogs, by the way). In my opinion, if a team is not in contention for a championship, the focus of the season should be on development. What good is 50+ wins if the team can’t turn that into more than 2 playoff wins?

I would rather the team focus on development, allowing promising rookies to take their lumps without fearing the hook, and evaluate what can be expected of the them with a larger sample size. This season, I’ve railed on about Armon’s potential, and his detractors often bring up the fact that the sample sizes I’ve used are not necessarily indicative of the quality I see in the kid. These same discussions surrounded Jerry B.

If the team has a need, say back up point guard, and they have a player that could fill it, they should do their best to pound that player into the mold they desire. If it doesn’t work, trade that player for another prospect, and resume the pounding, or find a veteran that already fits the mold. If Armon had kept his 10 minutes per game throughout the entire regular season, there is a good chance he would have adjusted to keep the scouts guessing. The only way he’s going to stop Calderon from picking his pocket is to play him enough times to wise up.

It just sticks in my craw that the Dallas guards were slaying Portland from all over, while one of our best defenders, and probably the only Blazer that could have kept up with Barrea, sat on the bench. Same story with Jerry when Brooks was killing us in the Houston series.

Thoughts?

Stealth > Wealth

by Adam Randall on May 13, 2011 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Patty received the backup PG time this season

in 2008-2009 it was Sergio

From Paul Allen on down, the Blazer’s PG developmental strategy is like a polar bear jumping from ice-flow to ice-flow. It looks like they’re making progress but they aren’t sticking with one kid long enough (re: years or minutes) to ever find a keeper

Either that, or they don’t know how to scout/draft quality PGs in the first place. Paul has his fingers in that process and Rich needs to box him out

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on May 13, 2011 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

haha

locate, rotate, and mo-tate Rich!

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on May 13, 2011 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Perfect analogy.

I feel like both Armon and Jerry would be so much better if those backup PG minutes had been theirs for an entire season. If the season closed and they were still shaky in some fundamental areas, trade them and keep looking. Instead, both players felt untested by the end of their rookie years, yet expected to produce in their sophomore season.

In Jerry’s case, he probably would have fetched more on the market if he’d been tested and rejected his rookie year. At that point, he could have been sold as a high-ceiling, but poor fit player that could be a difference-maker for another team. What ended up happening was all his flaws were spotlit by an overbearing coach with a short leash, and his value plummeted. Summer League MVP became a conditional 1st pick after the league saw his warts. I really hope Armon doesn’t meet the same fate, because as a 2nd rounder he won’t carry half that value into a trade.

Stealth > Wealth

by Adam Randall on May 13, 2011 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

I've said it before a few times

Bayless received less minutes than any lottery pick in 2008 during his first 2 years in the league, other than Joe Alexander (Bucks). Jerryd wasn’t hurt, and he was a workaholic. Instead of playing Rex, PT was given to Sergio, Rudy, Blake (etc) because

1) Nate wanted to win games

2) Paul wanted to see the Spaniards play

Maybe Bayless wasn’t good enough and shouldn’t have received more PT…but we’ll never know UNLESS he goes on to have a longer, more-productive NBA career than Fernandez and Rodriguez.

One Spaniard is in the rear-view mirror, and another has one foot out the door

I would say this is hindsight but several of us (upperleftcorner, etc) were saying it at the time: Bayless needs be playing more.

More minutes = better chance of the player developing into something
Less minutes = you really don’t know what you’ve got

When Jerryd finally had an opportunity to play regular minutes (Jan-April 2010, when Roy was hurt) he showed marked improvement. I’m not saying he’s going to be an NBA star someday, or even a starter. What I am saying is the Rex saga is indicative of the piss-poor way that Portland has failed to develop their young guards for 20+ years.

The results speak for themselves

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on May 14, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

They really picked the wrong horse there.

Just did a little comparison of Jerry and Rudy’s seasons, and it’s sad. Bayless had several rough patches, but finished the season on a tear, averaging 22.5 pts, 5.6 asts, and 3 rebs in the month of April. In April, Rudy averaged 6.3 pts, 2.9 asts, and 1.1 rebs. JB edged Rudy out in most statistical categories over the season, and that’s while getting traded twice, integrating into new teams. He may have just hit his stride, and it’s probably thanks to a larger share of the minutes—he averaged 37.8 in April.

Jerry’s biggest night of the season was to the tune of 31 pts (10 from the FT line: miss that?), 7 asts, and 5 rebs, while Rudy’s best was 26 pts, 6 asts, and 3 rebs—pretty close, but how many 20+ pt performances did each log? Bayless: 9, Rudy: 2.

It’s just a bummer that Rudy tanked his stock so completely to start the season, or they might have been able to send him packing and given Bayless his minutes. Also, if Nate had still decided to lock up Armon, there would have been a better answer at that position than Patty. Really, this all traces back to Nate, not KP or PA or Cho. Bayless will likely repair the damage to his reputation with some good run in Toronto, and be the first player of the modern Blazers era to elicit a collective D’oh! from the organization.

Stealth > Wealth

by Adam Randall on May 14, 2011 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Cho listened to offers for Rudy from July-October

Rich was interviewed and said he never received fair value for a player who was a 25 mpg reserve (thanks to Rudy’s agent making demands, as well as Fernandez’ own poor performance in 2009-2010)

Cho had no ties to Bayless, Jerryd’s 2.3M contract was going to cost the team 4.6M over the LT threshold. Rich received what he thought was fair compensation for Rex, a first-round draft choice from NOLA

Rudy was playing better in preseason, Armon Johnson was also looking solid for a backup PG, at the time the move made some sense. But when AJ hit the rookie wall early, and Roy’s knees started barking, the team really needed Bayless’ bench scoring a lot more than they needed Patty or Rudy

I think Jerryd will have a decent NBA career, similar to Jarrett Jack. The past is the past, in the future Rich needs to make better draft day decisions, and not let Nate and Paul overrule him. If he’s fired because of it, at least he went down following his convictions.

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on May 15, 2011 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

never much liked jerryd as a player.

but i agree, he would have been very valuable to have on the bench this year – more so than any of rudy, patty, amon, or babbitt.

by SaveOden on May 16, 2011 5:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm voting for the latter

This team has been abysmal trying to find guys who can actually run a team, usually favoring athletic types who like to score (Bayless, Armon, Patty, Damon, etc.) over guys with setup ability. And when they do find a guy with setup ability (Sergio, Telfair) his shooting and/or defense are so horrendous you can’t leave him on the court.

by nikolokolus on May 13, 2011 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because you don't know til after
This is a philosophical issue to me, and I’m curious what you think, hg (this is 500dogs, by the way). In my opinion, if a team is not in contention for a championship, the focus of the season should be on development.

No one really thought that Dallas was a contender this year….not even entering the playoffs (bunches of pundits were picking us in the 1st round)…..but look at them now. The point is…you just have to try to win every game ….any way you can.

Me: "I heard the BCS just bought March Madness.......the vote should be out tomorrow and we will see Duke and Kansas in the championship game"

by 92wastheyear on May 13, 2011 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

As you probably know

I am not a basketball whiz by any means. Everything you say sound excellent to me, but then they always have.
I know from the normal fans point of view if we blew a game because we had a rookie in, instead of Dre. the smell would come out of the fan. Look at the static when Brandon was inserted as PG and Dre was taken out. The same thing applies, BRoy looks awkward at PG, but he has the BBIQ to be a PG, but not the court vision. So the way to get court vision is more time

Look at all the drafted PG that went on to other teams that didn’t make it because of lack of experience. So what you say sounds good.

hg

by BBK on May 13, 2011 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

McMillan also

had to use Batum so count that as 3 or maybe at least 2 1/2

by XBlazerfan on May 13, 2011 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rome wasn't built in a day or a year.

We acquired Wallace and Wesley. Bot are capable of becoming a go to guy in the future, along with BRoy’s change in role. The more talent we have on the floor the better the chances of winning the game. The talent has to play in unison and use the skills of each other rather then depend on one mega star (BRoy).

Kobe found out that he can win games by himself, as did BRoy, but to win series in the play-offs the whole team is needed to win.

So it isn’t the matter of replacing BRoy, it is the matter of the team accepting his lesser role and play their role, opposed to depending on any of the leaders, be it BRoy, LMA, Wallace, Wesley, Batum, or Dre. When one is being taken out of his game, the others has to make the opponents pay, and Portland was unable to do that.

hg

by BBK on May 13, 2011 6:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Portland will not be able to go out and purposely acquire a replacement

who’s the same caliber as the old Brandon Roy.

Ultimately, any all-star type of talent that Portland acquires is done so the same as Roy was – by way of chance and development.

Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.

by Net Ranger on May 13, 2011 7:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Brandon wasn't seen as "The Guy" when he was drafted

Niether was LMA…. How many Laottery busts have there been. I’m just saying we can get a Drexler or BRoy not having the first pick. Heck, we had the first pick. How did that work out? We really don’t know yet.

Getting “That guy” may mean rolling the dice a bit. we did with Roy. At first, it worked out. Now we are saying, “Maybe not so much”. I don’t think that is totally over and done with either

Roy Bashing~ "Blakes gone...Brandon is next alphabetically " ;-}

by Hermistonmelons on May 15, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jordan Hamilton I think would be a good fit.

The Blazers lack a scorer and an outside shooter, and he can do both. It doesn’t hurt that he rebounds very well for a guy who plays the 2-3 position. Of course he doesn’t defend all that well, and he likely won’t be available from where the Blazers pick, but trading up is a thought.

by rhaegar on May 13, 2011 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

I like the notion that the eyes of a trained scout or just a regular fan are the best for judging a game, but stats watch every game

And if they are weighted good not overvaluing a certain category, they are also fairly unbiased. Add what you hear about a players work ethic/background/motivation, and you come to the eyes, ears and numbers approach touted by Cho and others.

by Norsktroll on May 13, 2011 2:52 AM PDT reply actions  

All Stats Lie?

Not sure about that.

When people say “statistics” usually they’re talking about how people interpret measurements. I guess it’s fair to say that “individual interpretations of measurements lie” but that’s not the same as saying “measurements lie.” Because they don’t; the whole point is that they’re objective.

Let’s take the Long Jump. This is pretty straightforward: measure from the white line to the first mark in the sand. You can line up the distances, take averages, add them up together, create curves… whatever. None of those figures are going to be “lies” in the sense that they tell a story that didn’t happen. Now, take those same statistics and try and make a case for blood doping or steiroids in the Olympics—or growth hormone in milk and high fructose corn syrup evils—and your’e on much more feeble ground.

We have very, very poor measures for individual contributions in basketball. The box score is like measuring the long jump wth assorted banana peels.

But I think it’s too facile to say that “all statistics lie.” It sort of undermines the self-correcting nature of the entire scientific method. The +/- system is an attempt at correcting and evolving from the box score. It is being further refined into other more byzantine systems. It has failings but is an improvement. Just as Newton yielded to Einstein who yielded to String Theory (Feynmann?), we should encourage and support better measurements. This makes our discussion and arguments more refined, more insightful, and improves the understanding and enjoyment of the game.

I’m reminded of the “non-stat all stars.” It was a good article with good players. That we have no system to measure their greatness is indicative of a failure of the system of measurement, which we should look to improve. Retreating to eyeballs and expert opinion is the provenance of tribal priesthood and arbitrary authority.

Buck Williams for the hall of fame

by Phizbin on May 13, 2011 6:48 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Stats don't lie, but they don't tell the true story either.

Just because say BRoy got in the game the same time Batum did and Batum went on a scoring binge, and BRoy’s +/- goes up, doesn’t give a true story of what BRoy contributed.
Game stats only tells the story of that game not games in the future.
Personal stats tells a story of the history of what each player has done, and although it may give a suggested players worth, it does not give any proof of the way he will play from this day forward. BRoy has great stats from the past, but if you tried to apply those stats today, you would be disappointed.

hg

by BBK on May 13, 2011 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

What is important about Roy

is that even hobbled he could virtually break free of his defender at will. His legs wouldn’t support his shooting but most of the time he could break down the defense. A crippled Roy was still such a threat that he could open up the court for his teammates. His teammates just couldn’t shoot consistently.

by 7677maniac on May 13, 2011 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree on BRoy's worth

but this years stats says different. IMO, next year his legs will be strong enough to support his shooting, but the stats doesn’t say that

hg

by BBK on May 13, 2011 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

As a sidenote, Carlisle deliberately put in Terry whenever Roy entered the game and had him go right at him.

by Norsktroll on May 13, 2011 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Statistics do not "lie". People lie.
  • Statistics are objective measures, that enable us to support theories empirically, by summarizing a lot of information across many real world instances of something of interest.

They can be powerful tools to detect how players and teams perform, to the extent they are used and interpreted “correctly”, that is, with good validity. There are many ways to measure and demonstrate “validity”, methods that withstand criticism.

The old figure of speech that “stats lie” means absolutely nothing when taken literally. It is nonsense. One would be better off forgetting the saying entirely, if he or she wants to understand measurement, and its role in any kind of science. For people who study statistics, of course, this utterance is pet peeve.

  • Plus-Minus is a statistical tool that is intended to measure “chemistry”, “fit”, and the “ability to make others better”, whatever term(s) you want to use.

By itself it would be a relatively poor measure of any of these traits.

But combine it with other methods, and look at it in conjunction with other player traits, and you likely have the best approach to learning about these player qualities.

  • How would we know? Validity measures.

If you looked at other measures of these traits as well, you would most probably find they were (1) closely related and correlated; and (2) that you could reliably predict one by knowing the other. You take that, along with (3) the obvious common sense validity on the face of it, (4) statistical reliability, (5) sample quality, (6) measures of related traits, and the like; and you can start to make a legitimate scientific case when you discuss those important traits for a player or players.

Science, and the statistics that enable science to recognize things across many occurances, helps us be as certain as possible. How scientific you want to be when using a statistic is entirely up to you.

by mybad on May 13, 2011 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions   3 recs

Stats are like rules - made to be broken

Stats can give one an overview and an ability to make informed predictions but sometimes Jason Kidd just up and scores 25 points from 3 point land.

I don’t put much stock in statistics because numbers don’t play basketball, people do. No matter how you slice it, people are unpredictable.

we can still win........

by RastaMonsta on May 13, 2011 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

geez it's just a saying.

statistics just like any data can be very useful, but they can also be incredibly treacherous. the stats themselves might not lie, but they mislead us into lying about what they mean.

we often extrapolate too far, making broad conclusions on very little data whether it’s advanced stats in basketball, poll numbers in politics or tree rings in climate calculations.

it’s easy to get caught up in the numbers and lose sight of the big picture, which is you need to go back to basics and perform a sanity check every now and then.

for basketball that might mean using the “eye test” and watching to see what kind of an impact a player has on the game, or looking at the most basic stat of all – wins and losses.

you sometimes have to ask, if this players stats look so good, then why don’t i notice him on the court and why does his team lose 90% of their games?

by SaveOden on May 13, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

i don't think it's unfair to say that stats can be misleading.

obviously it’s the person making the wrong conclusions, but sometimes a quick reading of a certain statistic can be a bit more provocative than others.

another reason that people say stats lie is because people with an agenda can always cherry pick the one that seems to support their conclusion and not present you with all of the data. sure, it was the person who mislead you, but they sucked you in because they had stats on their side.

it’s just like the saying guns don’t kill people, people kill people. while technically true, statistics and guns are often both used as an effective tool for wicked ends. :)

by SaveOden on May 14, 2011 7:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

But...

If a stat can be “cherry picked” to support any argument, doesn’t that devalue statistical analysis as a whole? Thus making the argument that “all stats lie” valid?

Statistics have value to show possible trends or cycles but trends are not always reliable predictors. If one relies solely on statistics, one is going to get burned. Often.

…and, if you are a player, your JOB is to continually change and hopefully exceed your stat line. Your job is to make your statistics less accurate.

It is a fine and difficult balancing act to use statistics to your advantage. Some folks are good at it – I am not =p

we can still win........

by RastaMonsta on May 14, 2011 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

If you fail to screw in a screw with a hammer is it the hammer's fault?

The saying that “statistics lie”, like other anti-science movements, is destructive in society. Admittedly, when it comes to basketball, who cares? But the same BS is used todiscredit more important science in the media, which is truly just spreading ignorance. As regards hoops, no big deal.

If someone just said stats are often misused, I would agree 200%.

by mybad on May 15, 2011 3:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

it's not destructive to say statistics lie, it's instructive.

would you prefer everyone believe everything they read just because someone quotes a statistic?

the best thing to do is to teach people that you shouldn’t just believe a statistic someone tells you just because they sound smart. we should teach our kids to keep thinking, keep reading and keep investigating and make up their own mind.

by SaveOden on May 15, 2011 6:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Definitely agree that folks should not believe everything they read that quotes stats. Researchers who know statistics are more critical and skeptical of stat articles than anyone.

Skepticism is part of the same science that brings you research statistics. Here I mean stats in formal, scientific research studies, but the same applies to stats in pop culture to the extent someone knows what they are doing in statistics and research methods. If someone doesn’t know what they are doing, their numbers may well be meaningless, and often are.

And yes, parents should teach their kids to distrust people’s interpretations of numbers. The more you know about stats you can start to criticize their choice and use of the numbers in more detail. Bringing up those concerns is indeed helpful.

But the skillful, creative and knowledgeable use of numbers is what enables science involving humans to exist in the first place. That’s what the human sciences largely rest on. So we don’t want to teach kids that unscientific is better than scientific — to disbelieve in science generally, as the best approach to understanding nature with maximum certainty.

The phrase “stats lie” is often used in just that matter, to dismiss more scientific approaches with a glib, misleading cliche, and to dismiss science in general without understanding it. This is the part that is destructive and spreads ignorance (used to deny climate change, etc, etc..).

In sports, you often see someone say “stats lie” without offering further substantive criticism. Of course that’s not destructive, because it’s only sports. But is certainly helps cloud things, and is not helpful. But if a lot of people see that, and generalize to the use of statistics in general, then it starts to hurt society a bit.

Numbers give opportunities for certainty in science that nothing else could possibly give you. Someone who uses the best statistics to measure the phenomenon of interest and develop theories, as part of a scientic method, is doing science, as opposed to just speculating, or trying to shout the loudest. So we should also teach our kids to respect the scientific methods which have given us so much of what we understand as modern life, and taught us so much we can rely on about the world we live in.

We need to teach people to be skeptical of the use of numbers. That’s way, way different than “stats lie”.

by mybad on May 15, 2011 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

fair enough, sir.

i appreciate your points, even if i do still think it’s a fairly useful and harmless phrase.

good science will live on regardless of any number of ignorant people who would rather ignore facts and figures.

as an engineer, i love numbers and i’m immersed in them constantly. that said, i almost never trust them without a lot of verification.

by SaveOden on May 16, 2011 5:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

The exact same phrase really is quite often used to effectively discredit real, important science from fields from climate science to psychology, in public minds.

The real result is prejudice and ignorance, and in some cases, increased risk to the planet. The disregard of science is a real problem in society. not imaginary. Hate to think it, but for a lot of scientifically uneducated people, dicussions like this might be the closest they get to reading science, most months.

So we will have to agree to disasgree about the “useful and harmless” description of a commonly used cliche that expresses prejudice against science. Maybe I’m nuts.

Having said that, you sound like a great guy; lets have a beer, I don’t take any of this here particularly seriously, and promise to shut up now. I was just thinking somebody in pop culture settings who is trained in it should stick up for the scientists once in a while.

by mybad on May 16, 2011 7:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

beer sounds great.

definitely no hard feelings. have a good one.

by SaveOden on May 16, 2011 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

yes, to some extent.

like you said, statistics obviously have value, but the “all stats lie” saying has elements of truth behind it (if you don’t think like a lawyer).

by SaveOden on May 15, 2011 6:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Dave is so on the money with this...
When the Blazers win they will get respect. Until then, forget about it. Asking for it only seems pathetic.

.

Blazer fans that complain/worry about respect from other cities and the national media are in for a long road of dissatisfaction. Dwell on something more productive – like how you’re gonna score seats next to Free Throw Guy so you can be on TV as well.

Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.

by Net Ranger on May 13, 2011 7:16 AM PDT reply actions  

Are the finals going to suck this year?

Doesn’t it seem like the Eastern Conference is going to win in 5 over the Western Conference regardless of what team represents each side?

by David Jaffe on May 13, 2011 7:58 AM PDT reply actions  

It'll be Miami over the Marvericks 4 -1

Wade and LeBron will dominate the SG and SF positions and neither Chi or Dallas has a power forward that can contain Bosh enough, like Garnett, to put games in doubt.

by 7677maniac on May 13, 2011 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

So if we're hoping for a more competitive Finals...

we should be rooting for Chicago? Hows this look? ( “>” represent ho w much better one team is from the next)

Miami >>>>> Chicago >>> Dallas >> OKC

by David Jaffe on May 13, 2011 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Come playoff time the Mavericks collapsed on Aldridge because

they knew he was the Blazer’s only consistent scorer. The Maverick defense could collapse because the blazer’s didn’t have a shooter like Ray Allen, or Jamal Crawford who could punish a team for collapsing the defense. This leads to my first axiom of building a playoff successful team:

Good shooting forces opponents to defend and this allows players to maximize their talent (quick first step, good handle, good passer, etc).

Second axiom: It’s much easier to teach a good shooter to play defense than it is to teach a good defensive player to be a good shooter.

Third axiom: Always make you weakest offensive player(s) better offensively by involving them in plays that have them as a scoring option. Scappy points aren’t very plentiful in the playoffs so make every player useful.

The blazer’s need to improve their shooting if they ever plan to get out of the first round of the playoffs.

by 7677maniac on May 13, 2011 8:21 AM PDT reply actions  

I am afraid you are right.

It would be nice if it was a unbias reason.

hg

by BBK on May 13, 2011 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

I have to question

the idea that we win out with Roy and Oden. Sure they are both good players and top five or ten as far as PER (top 3 in Roy’s case) for their position when healthy. However even when they were together healthy they were not dominate the way the Lakers, Celtics or Spurs were in there time. Sure they hadn’t played together as a team long enough but that is part of my point. The question I have about that team is would they have been able to have the offensive and defensive schemes honed enough to withstand the playoffs? I’m not saying that McMillan would be the problem either. He showed this year that he could adjust when he coached a much different looking team with an entirely different playing style. Sure give him the rap he’s had the last few years of not being able to adjust come playoff time, but I don’t no how much difference that makes if you have the schemes and you have the players to pull it off already. Did the Lakers fail to adjust against the Mavericks with the great Phil Jackson?

The biggest problem I see is that no matter the situation when Roy is on the court the team has to play to his style or he is not effective. When he had Blake/Batum/Aldridge/Przybilla he was super effective. When other jumped into the fray he had problems and openly complained about it. He had complained about Fernandez, Oden and Miller openly in public. The press and the fans responded to the complaining and it caused a lot of controversy. I’m sure most fans shook it off but it didn’t help his good guy image. Really that’s beside the point here though as he was probably telling the truth. He needs the kind of players around him that play to his style least he be effective. Asking him to play off the ball or play PG or whatever is not going to work for him. Roy and Miller started to play together very effectively two years ago in late December early January and the Roy had the hamstring. It seemed like and uneasy situation to me never the less. When Miller played with Oden he was feeding the big guy and they were effective. So maybe you could have two dynamic combos in Roy/Aldridge and Miller/Oden with a little Batum thrown in and also making up for the lack of defense ala Miller/Roy. However with just one year (this past year) would that have melded? My assertion is that it would taken a few years.

by XBlazerfan on May 13, 2011 9:29 AM PDT reply actions  

You have an interesting idea.

Also what is the Chemistry between LMA and Greg.

Would it be better to have Dre and Greg on one unit and BRoy and LMA on an other unit,or do you continue as Nate said in the beginning, LMA, Greg and BRoy is our corner stones and you throw them in the pot and make them learn to play together/

hg

by BBK on May 13, 2011 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think LMA and Greg will work well together

You will want both of those guys on the floor at the same time, probably with Dre. I think molding rotations around Roy is a consideration, but no longer a necessity.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on May 13, 2011 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

LMA needs Andre for the lob passes

nobody knows how Greg will fit in, since we haven’t seen him play since Dec 2009. I’d rather have the “problem” of integrating LMA and Oden than not have it

Roy and Miller should play on separate units, whenever possible. I think Nate has figured that out (Andre sitting out entire 4th quarter during game 6, etc) Brandon may well be a amnesty casuality anyway, making all of this speculation moot.

Did anyone else stop to think that when Cho said “we need more speed in the backcourt” he was thinking of #7? Roy (and his contract) is the elephant in the room

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on May 13, 2011 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

I doubt he was talking about Rudy, Wes, Armon or Patty...

Leaving Miller and Roy. Could have been Miller, but I doubt it.

Stealth > Wealth

by Adam Randall on May 13, 2011 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well I was simply responding

to this from Dave:

Give me Greg Oden and Brandon Roy plus this year’s team and I’ll put money on them against anyone left in the West.

I still think given a health Roy and Oden it would have taken some more time. I also think they would have had to figure out how to play Roy ball with the rest of the team.

Going forward if Roy stays I think the same problem remains.

by XBlazerfan on May 13, 2011 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree with Dave though that if we had a healthy Roy and Oden I'd put my money on them to do some things

doesn’t mean it’s a sure thing

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on May 13, 2011 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oden being healthy

does bring a new set of challenges for the blazer’s.

Can Oden and Aldridge both play low post when on the floor at the same time?
Can the two of them play hi/lo?
How quickly can Oden develop a low post game?

Can Batum continue to improve his mid-range shooting to take advantage of collapsing defenses?

And can Wallace thrive when the front court is crowded with big bodies?

by 7677maniac on May 13, 2011 10:29 AM PDT reply actions  

I don't know the answer to most of these questions

but I do like where Nic is going with his midrange game, and how that would theoretically compliment a healthier Blazer roster. I think it will be a strength of his offensive game for years to come.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on May 13, 2011 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

I know that LMA's mid range jumpers will flourish with Greg's low post play.

I am not a coach, so I don’t know how you could pull it off, but is LMA good enough passer to put him on a high post instead of Marcus, and pass to Greg on the low post when they come out on him? more or less reversed to what Camby and LMA does now. Or even the double tower low post with Greg on the right post and LMA on the left post.

All of that sounds good to me, but like I said I am not a coach, but having Greg would give you a zillion options to look at. It would take some of the pressure off the 3 pt shooting of our back court.

As for Crash and Batum are concerned they are both good off the ball offensive players, and they will both find ways to score if needed, but their defense will be the big factor in their play.

hg

by BBK on May 13, 2011 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think Aldridge is anywhere near the passer Camby is.

However, he’s a much better jump shooter. As far as I recall GO was fine at kicking the ball out when doubled, and LMA is a far better shooter when facing up and open than fading away (of course). So it would at least force the double to come from a wing player or something.

"Say his NAME, Portland. Gerald Wallace is...awesome." -Dave, 4/9/11

by austinpwnz on May 13, 2011 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

i think greg should work on a solid 12-15 ft jumper.

kind of like the duck used to have. that would help open things up for some aldridge in the low post when they’re on the floor together.

also, greg has such a presence that his man will not want to leave him to double aldridge. that would either open up a skip pass from aldridge to oden for a dunk or if that lane is cut off a quick kick out to the perimeter and lob or swing pass to get oden in under the basket deep post position.

having two post threats can put a lot of pressure on the defense… especially if they can both hit a jumper.

by SaveOden on May 14, 2011 7:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

My vision

is have LMA on the high post and Greg on the low post. they both can shoot so there would probably be less plugging the middle, and Greg is a much better re bounder and put back artist then Aldridge, although with LMA’s speed he can go lickidyspringleupthemiddle (50 cent word—LOL) for some fancy dunks on put backs.

With high and low post, the lanes would be more open the the “Crash” to drive the lanes.

Of course a twin tower effect of Camby and Greg would work with LMA in as the 3 and Crash at the 2. OMG don’t get me started.

hg

by BBK on May 14, 2011 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Lakers done? Well, their fans seem to think that they are going to acquire

Dwight Howard AND Chris Paul before next season so that they can win a few more championships before Kobe rides off into the sunset. That certainly would be a scary thought if they can get it done. The NBA and David Stern is all about helping the Lakers and Celtics, so I suppose it is not beyond the realm of possibility.

by rhaegar on May 13, 2011 10:35 AM PDT reply actions  

So far

I’ve heard the team only talking about getting new starting PG. It made me wonder if Andre Miller is on their list.

by XBlazerfan on May 13, 2011 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Jerry Buss bought the Lakers in 1979

they have gone to the finals in the following years since then:

1980, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2008, 2009, 2010

That’s 16 NBA Finals appearance over the last like 33 seasons, basically every other year. Are the Lakers done? I wouldn’t bet on it…this is the NBA after all.

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on May 13, 2011 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Okay you are right...

…The Lakers aren’t done. But can’t we pretend they are? I really enjoyed watching the Wheels come off…The Meltdown was perverse enjoyment for me. Sure, The Lakers will probably trade injury waiting to happen- idiot— Bynum for Dwight Howard and instantly become viable again…but in the meantime…let’s just say they are done….

"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"

by Krang on May 13, 2011 11:31 AM PDT reply actions  

Don't jinx it

I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion yet

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on May 13, 2011 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

OT: "Nonplussed" is an interesting word

Somehow it’s evolved to have two distinct meanings that are almost polar opposites. It’s clear what Dave was saying though — context FTW.

by Corvid on May 13, 2011 12:25 PM PDT reply actions  

well, if by evolved you mean, “was used wrong so many times that the 3rd definition online is now the opposite of what the word means” then sure. Apparently you are more polite about these things than I. :)

by Section323 on May 13, 2011 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

So "plussed" means the same thing?

Me: "I heard the BCS just bought March Madness.......the vote should be out tomorrow and we will see Duke and Kansas in the championship game"

by 92wastheyear on May 13, 2011 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Second half of the season...yes

as long as rehab goes according to schedule with no setbacks

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on May 13, 2011 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dave, I have to question your answer on Lamarcus :)

I think you only answered part of the question, which was how you see LA. You never really addressed the two months where he was in fact, an extremely dominant player, in the likes of Roy and KG at the least. So, as they original question asked: Were those two months outliers? If so, could you address why that was there?

Your answer seemed to almost disregard what LA did in January and February, by saying, well, this is just Lamarcus. I would strenuously disagree with that. None of us had ever seen THAT Lamarcus.

Thanks much ;)

Go Blazers!

by EowynAmarie on May 13, 2011 2:29 PM PDT reply actions  

You only get credit

for what you can sustain over a season…and eventually a career. The Trail Blazers need to get to a place where everyone from the stars on down are sure that they’re going to bring a dominant “A” game instead of hoping this is one of the nights when their best will come out. LaMarcus was great over the course of the season but he wasn’t January/February brilliant over the course of the season. So he gets credit for great. Maybe next year he can get credit for brilliant.

—Dave

by Dave on May 13, 2011 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Can we only expect

that which we have seen in the past? Or is it okay to expect more based on flashes of brilliance? I think it’s overly cautious to disregard LaMarcus’s flashes of brilliance and say “we can’t expect more until we see more.”

by jamon51 on May 13, 2011 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

On that basis, though

Nicolas Batum and Rudy Fernandez and Sergio Rodriguez and Jerryd Bayless and Patty Mills and Armon Johnson should all either pan out soon or already be much better players than they are. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn’t.

—Dave

by Dave on May 13, 2011 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's always been "Smooth".

      As previously posted, now LaMarcus needs to continue to
develop his “Smooth Shake” as a counter to the pressure on
his right hand hook in the post. Hakeem was the master of the
fake to the right hand roll with the the spin back fadeaway to the
baseline. The hard part is keeping that shot in the 12-15 foot
range, and not getting pushed out. Keep working on you STRENGTH
Smooth and GET DEEP !!

      COINCAST REALLY SUCKS !!

It's GO time !

by walkoff41 on May 13, 2011 3:09 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Identity crisis

These Blazers haven’t had a chance to develop an identity. Injuries and trades (even good trades) have robbed the team of any chance to gel.

Miller put it well in his exit interview this year in response to the question “How does the team improve next season?” He said this team needs “health” and “practice”. Half the team didn’t practice half the time this past year due to exhaustion. Next season, Nate needs to quickly find a rotation that leaves the team enough energy on practice days to continue to improve throughout the season. This requires health, a luxury the Blazers haven’t had for four years running. I’m crossing my fingers now…

by sabas4eba on May 14, 2011 11:52 AM PDT reply actions  

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