Martell Webster

by robertjcase on Mar 27, 2011 8:49 PM PDT

Can someone explain to me why we traded Martell Webster, but Rudy Fernandez is still a Blazer? I can not think of one area of the game that Fernandez is a better basketball player than Webster. Am I missing something? Not to mention the fact that Webster always acted like he was a professional and understood and accepted his role with this team, something Fernandez doesn't seem to comprehend. Please, someone, give me a rational explanation why we chose Fernandez over Martell (besides Kevin Prichard intentionally screwing Paul Allen).

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Martell had a lingering injury (which has put him out for much of this season)

and so we dished him and got what we could.

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by NCBlazerfan on Mar 27, 2011 8:50 PM PDT reply actions

He played 82 games the season before we traded him....

One thing that we can say with certainty is that the Blazes should be given no margin when it comes to predicting a players future health.

by robertjcase on Mar 27, 2011 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions

Martell Webster: $4.8 million and 37 games played

Rudy Fernandez: $1.2 million and 68 games played

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by Ben Golliver on Mar 27, 2011 8:59 PM PDT reply actions 9 recs

This and the fact that Batum needed more playing times

by ppilot on Mar 27, 2011 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions

"time"

by ppilot on Mar 27, 2011 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions

Cost cutting

How exactly does that justify keeping a worse player when you don’t do anything with the savings? I know you’re just pointing out what the Blazers rationale was then, but knowing what we know now, is this really a justifiable reason to make that move. Regardless of the money, fundamentally, the Blazers chose Fernandez over Webster.

by robertjcase on Mar 27, 2011 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions

I think it was more than just cost cutting

Web played more 3 than 2, the Blazers wanted to open up more time at the 3 for Batum to see what they had in him. Rudy was kept because he was a back up 2, who has some play making ability that allows him to run some half court sets. Web couldn’t do that, he could defend and shoot the 3, which is what Batum does better than Matell, which means you can’t play them together very well.

The cap savings were more of the icing on top of the cake to me, while the flour and eggs were the questions about the rotation the trade answered.

Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?

by usmcr3049 on Mar 28, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions

They also used some money to pay Wes

Me: "I heard the BCS just bought March Madness.......the vote should be out tomorrow and we will see Duke and Kansas in the championship game"

by 92wastheyear on Mar 28, 2011 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions

Crud!

I thought we were paying Wes in maple bars and recalled Leatherman tools!

Brandon Roy is The Man Your Man Could Smell Like

by Rogue Blazer on Mar 28, 2011 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

I love Martell. LOVE him. But he’s not very good.

by Section323 on Mar 30, 2011 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions

Games played

And Rudy missed 20 more games than Webster last year.

by robertjcase on Mar 27, 2011 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions

plus ball handling and passing

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Mar 28, 2011 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions

It takes (at least) two teams to make a trade

Maybe the Timber Wolves didn’t want Rudy?

by AverageJon on Mar 27, 2011 9:33 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs

LOL Good point

by robertjcase on Mar 27, 2011 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions

No actually this is true

I am pretty darn sure we offered Rudy for the 16th pick and the Wolves said no, so we offered Webster instead.

by Sir.Ludo on Mar 27, 2011 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions

sure

money – Martell was on the hook for $5 million for several more years, Rudy is cheap
position – we wanted to free up the SF spot for Batum full-time
trade – maybe Minnesota insisted on Martel and wouldn’t take Rudy?
other – Martell’s camp has reportedly quietly asked for a trade, and he had played loyal soldier here for a long time. Perhaps we were trying to accomodate his requests?

"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare

by douglast on Mar 27, 2011 10:06 PM PDT reply actions

We were Pritch-slapped!

with Babbit, Elliot and Armon.

In KP We Bust!

by Sheedwasright on Mar 29, 2011 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions

Cause yah, Martell's awesome.

We would be so much better if he were here right now.

"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez

by bfan on Mar 27, 2011 10:09 PM PDT reply actions

Rudy has better handles than Webster. Though it doesn’t really have that much of a significance in the game really. Rudy is a much better passer than Webster though if there’s anything that Rudy is significantly better than Webster.

I don’t know if Minnesota wouldn’t have wanted Rudy. They could have definitely used Rudy to lure Rubio over.

Jeff Pendergraph:
FGM - 3
FGA - 111
Min - 30
Reb - 10

by Tofu Anonymous on Mar 27, 2011 10:11 PM PDT reply actions

He wanted to start.

The explanation given by blazer talking media types (mike & mike, Brian) was that in end of season interview Martel said he wanted to start. This was obviously not going to happen.

I agree he’s a decent bench player, and the Blazers would have been deeper on the bench with him, but the Blazers had their eyes on replacing him with Wesly who is a better player and Martel was earning to much to not be playing. Since we was not going to be happy coming off the bench in any case, it added up to being ‘his time to go’.

by mrwonderfulone on Mar 27, 2011 10:37 PM PDT reply actions

Also I don't agree he is better then Rudy

Look at an objective measurement like Holigers PER. Rudy ranks significantly higher than Martel.

by mrwonderfulone on Mar 27, 2011 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions

Luke Babbitt

a lot of talk of him being a better version of webster. obviously we don’t see any babbitt but that’s what was said around the draft/

"my best friend is basketball" -AJ

by Blazerland on Mar 27, 2011 11:15 PM PDT reply actions

No, Matthews is a better version of Webster

by Sir.Ludo on Mar 27, 2011 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions

everybody is a better version of Webster

lol

by hoodieNation on Mar 28, 2011 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions

Except Webster...

by Rodney Gustafson on Mar 29, 2011 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions

Easy, Paul Allen likes Rudy

next question?

Webster is not worth getting worked up about, unless you remember how he was drafted in 2006 when Portland could’ve selected CP3 or D-Will

Through no fault of his own, Marty is in the same category as Sam Bowie as a Blazer bust

Batum, OTOH, is a bonafide keeper

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 27, 2011 11:59 PM PDT reply actions

if only he had went to UW like he was supposed to...

a pondextor-webster front court would have been amazing.

Jeff Pendergraph:
FGM - 3
FGA - 111
Min - 30
Reb - 10

by Tofu Anonymous on Mar 28, 2011 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions

pondexter was later i believe.

but he would have played with roy.

by SaveOden on Mar 28, 2011 3:03 AM PDT up reply actions

webster overlapped roy and pondexter

by 2 years each i believe…assuming he stays all four years

Jeff Pendergraph:
FGM - 3
FGA - 111
Min - 30
Reb - 10

by Tofu Anonymous on Mar 28, 2011 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions

ah yes.

i wasn’t thinking 4th dimensionally!

by SaveOden on Mar 29, 2011 3:09 AM PDT up reply actions

Mid-Level Exception

The Blazers wanted the Mid-Level Exception, so they had to get under the luxury cap. This allowed them to sign Wes Matthews.

by ORDucktape on Mar 28, 2011 12:10 AM PDT reply actions

they could have used the mid-level regardless of their luxury tax status

they might have wanted to shed the salary to save money, but they didn’t HAVE to.

"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare

by douglast on Mar 28, 2011 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions

right

that is why it is called an “exception” because it is an exception to the cap, allowing teams to go over the cap to sign players, just like other exceptions.

Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?

by usmcr3049 on Mar 28, 2011 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions

Martell Webster turned into Ryan Gomes and Luke Babbitt

Ryan Gomes turned into cap space that turned into Wesley Matthews. So the question becomes: would you rather have Rudy, Batum, and Matthews, or Webster, Batum and Matthews? Webster would have provided a lot of duplication of skills. Batum had passed him in the rotation. Matthews was going to be ahead of him in the rotation. Reports were that Webster requested a trade (behind the scenes). Probably the front office recognized that he was going to become a third-stringer. Not really fair to a guy who had been giving a lot through the down years.

I was sad to see Martell go, but it made sense for him, and the Blazers. Keeping Rudy made sense too. Rudy is able to provide something different. Webster would have been buried on the bench doing no good to anybody.

When the world knows Nico Batum as "The Inevitable", I'll be very happy with where he is as a player.

"Batum, who stands 8 feet tall with a 9-foot wingspan and never makes mistakes..." - Posting and Toasting

I still believe in #52. See you soon, Greg!

by ictoagsn on Mar 28, 2011 1:32 AM PDT reply actions

would the salaries have matched? Webster makes a lot more than Rudy...

Jeff Pendergraph:
FGM - 3
FGA - 111
Min - 30
Reb - 10

by Tofu Anonymous on Mar 28, 2011 2:10 AM PDT up reply actions

The Blazers used the Mid Level

to sign Wesley, they didn’t need to move Web to sign him. They moved Web because his skill set was duplicated with Batum and Wes on the team, both are better players than Web. Web wanted more playing time, and he will get that with the Wolves, vs playing 15-20 mins for the Blazers, being unhappy about it, and taking those minutes from Batum, Rudy, Wes, and Roy, all of whom bring a better skill set to the floor for the Blazers than Web.

Lets just wish him well huh?

Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?

by usmcr3049 on Mar 28, 2011 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions

Draft day was before free agency

It’s not extremely important to the argument, but Martell was traded on draft day before we offered Wes an offer sheet.

Even if you took Wes out of the equation: Rudy and Roy are better shooting guards than Martell, and Batum had passed him in the rotation at Small Forward.

Gimmicks don't make dynasties

by WarEaglePDX on Mar 28, 2011 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions

You're right, I was remembering wrong

However, Webster did become the available roster spot. Probably safe to say that we were never going to have all three of Rudy, Martell, and Wesley on the team. Wesley and Nico are both better than Martell, so it made sense to trade him. Rudy’s just a better fit.

And if we had all three of Webster, Batum, and Matthews, would Gerald Wallace be a Blazer? Interesting one to speculate on. Really, all we can do is speculate. We can have a pretty good idea of the main reason for most of the trades made, but we’re never going to know all the factors that come into play.

When the world knows Nico Batum as "The Inevitable", I'll be very happy with where he is as a player.

"Batum, who stands 8 feet tall with a 9-foot wingspan and never makes mistakes..." - Posting and Toasting

I still believe in #52. See you soon, Greg!

by ictoagsn on Mar 29, 2011 12:33 AM PDT up reply actions

martell would be decent for a rookie.

but the fact is he’s in his sixth season. he’s just not that good and he never will be…

the blazers didn’t get great value for him, but they probably got equal value. the mistake was picking babbitt, not the trading webster part.

looking at the draft though, it’s hard to come up with too many guys who should have gone over babbitt – eric bledsoe i guess? it wasn’t a very deep draft.

by SaveOden on Mar 28, 2011 3:09 AM PDT reply actions

Guys I'd rather have than Babbitt

Eric Bledsoe
Kevin Seraphin
James Anderson
Craig Brakins
Trevor Booker
Damion James
Dominique Jones
Jordan Crawford
Daniel Orton
Any other big man in the draft.

Just to name a few.

by DRE632 on Mar 28, 2011 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions

should we do this for every draft? Because the list is just as long for basically every single one

look no further than Martell Webster…at least Babbitt was at #16 and didn’t have hall of famers go behind him (as far as we know)…and at least he’s showing signs of life in the D-League

"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'

by sammymohawk on Mar 28, 2011 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions

I'm not sure I would take any of those guys, "over" luke

none of them have made a name for themselves in the league yet, and those that are playing are on crap teams that have to play them because they have no one better. Luke is not a good player, so I would swap him with any of the guys you mentioned, but it is not like the Blazers really missed anyone by taking him, whoever they took was going to sit and play in the D league this year.

Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?

by usmcr3049 on Mar 28, 2011 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions

I don't feel that Luke has the athleticism

to ever be a productive player in the NBA. He’s slow and awkward. Give me some random playground baller from Harlem over Luke Babbitt.

by DRE632 on Mar 28, 2011 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions

how many of these guys...

have been having a good rookie campaign outside of bledsoe?

i’m not asking to be smart, i just don’t know. thanks.

by SaveOden on Mar 29, 2011 3:13 AM PDT up reply actions

I can't see Martell throwing those running lobs to LMA

That’s reason enough.

by superfly05 on Mar 28, 2011 11:15 AM PDT reply actions

Also...

…trades happen with the input and agreement of at least two entities. It’s not a unilateral decision. It’s very possible Minnesota wanted Webster….

The trades that happen are the trades that are possible.

"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"

by Krang on Mar 28, 2011 11:25 AM PDT reply actions

I miss old Webster

The difference in production between Webby and Rudy right now is almost nothing. Webster gives you better shooting, and Rudy gives you better passing. Defense probably goes to Martel, but he was a little overrated while he was here. I’d be happy to have either of them on my bench. But Rudy is waaaaay cheaper than Martel, so we probably made the right choice.

by hoodieNation on Mar 28, 2011 12:18 PM PDT reply actions