Cho shows his stripes, another terrible move by management
by Mr. Swooper on Feb 25, 2011 7:29 PM PST
Email
PrintWe are historically laughed at for our terrible decisions as an organization. This trade continues that tradition. We gave away our size and one of best young players on our team for an unreliable, offensive black hole. This is Darius Miles part 2, but worse because we gave up two first round picks that will cost us the future. I'm a huge Blazers fan, but this is ridiculous. We don't make a solid move towards a play-off push and give the future away too! Cunningham was our back up four and was playing extremely well. Now with no size we're gonna get dominated in the post. Unbelievable.
106 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
One of our best players? Joel? He can barely move out there. Dante? He's not ever close to one of our
best players. I don’t even know how to really respond to this thread, but I don’t think anyone is going to agree with you.
by BRoyInThe4th on Feb 25, 2011 7:35 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Key word "Young"
Dante was playing solid minutes as back up PF. He was hitting the boards and the 15 footer consistently while moving the ball where it needed to go. He did more for the team then you think.
Give the guys a little more credit...
The move you point to deserves criticism, but it can’t be likened to this trade. Not even close. Miles was an underachiever and while it’s true he never should have been signed, he never was close to the talent of Wallace and the content of Miles’ character – based on the reports we’ve heard from Charlotte media on Wallace – makes this a night and day comparison.
And while Dante Cunningham is a serviceable NBA player who can hustle his tail off and make some pretty good things happen, his per 36 minute totals demonstrate the chasm, talent level wise, that the brain trust at One Center Court, and the rest of the folks who cover basketball for a living, have noticed when evaluating this trade. Dante Cunningham is, as stated above, a serviceable NBA player and I am a fan, but he doesn’t have the athleticism or skill of Gerald Wallace and will never, ever produce the same way.
And have a little faith that there was some plan on the size issue. These guys spend all day and night analyzing these moves and have a heck of a lot more information than you and I ever will.
by Clandestine Johnson on Feb 26, 2011 8:57 AM PST up reply actions
Well, let's take a step back and look at this.
I’m not going to argue that we do get laughed at for things like Sam Bowie, and lately Greg Oden. And we in fact gave up a lot of size. Camby is still injured, and he’s our only center. Wallace coming in and Aldridge are our only power forwards. Wallace may have lost a step, so there’s that. And giving two draft picks is what enticed the Bobcats to make the trade.
But I do not believe Gerald Wallace is a black hole. In fact, just the opposite. It sounds like most of his points and touches come from rebounding, or catching the right pass, not from being force fed the ball. And I’m not sure if you’ve heard, but Wallace made the All-NBA Defensive team. He’s not just a stat hound, he goes and gives it all every night for his teams. He’s the hustle guy. The guy diving on the floor to save possessions. Not Darius Miles at all. Much better, in fact. And bringing Wallace in means there will be a playoff push this season. Will we make it out of the first round? I don’t know. But our odds are better now than they were before.
And Camby is coming back soon. We have two roster spots to go out and get some size. And we have a very attractive rotation, particularly on the defensive end. This trade is a win for Portland. And I don’t see any other way I can look at it.
"The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason." - G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1909
Blazersedge.com || New to Blazersedge?
Actions -> Rec and Flag. Blazersedge works right when you use these two things.
by T Darkstar on Feb 25, 2011 7:41 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Appreciate the perspective, but watch what happens.
Wallace is not a PF, he’s a SF that can match up defensively with some smaller PF’s. As far as the black hole comment that’s straight from Bobcats management, MJ and others felt like the ball always stopped when it came to Wallace, stalling the offense. He is a HUSTLE player and I appreciate that about him, but that doesn’t make him a great pick up for this team. Darius did score the same way and they are similar players in fact. Wallace does not = playoff push, maybe second round, but his contract doesn’t justify the move. And we’re not a better team, your looking at some fools gold and acting like it’s 14 carat.With so many great players being traded around the league, this is a D-League move for the Blazers. Two roster spots for who? Their’s slim pickins amongst bigs to fill those spots.
Darius never played defense, for one thing
Never scored with the efficiency Wallace has done, never came close to affecting a game on both ends as much as Wallace does…
Dante is a nice player, but not a starter (definitely not a near-allstar level player) and not nearly as good as Wallace. Wallace and him are the same size, but Wallace is a better rebounder and defender… and scorer, ballhandler, more experienced, etc. Wallace becomes the SF and backup PF. We can find other undersized PFs who hit the midrange jumper. I liked Dante, but he wasn’t that important.
Joel was pretty much done. It’s sad, but the right move.
The draft picks will be mid 20s, and if all goes wrong they are lottery protected. We also still have first round picks in 2011 and 2013 (the years we’re trading away), since we’ve stockpiled some. And don’t forget, we’ve bought a 1st round pick almost every year… picks in the 20s are almost always for sale, and we don’t mind the pricetag.
I really don’t get where you’re coming from. Your seriously overrating Dante, and criminally underrating Wallace. Comparing him to Darius (a low motor, no defense, low IQ player) is just strange.
Mortimer
#20
by Mortimer on Feb 26, 2011 12:47 AM PST up reply actions 9 recs
thank you Mortimer.
Your response is SOOOO much more polite than mine would be..if I said what I truly think of this post.
by Natsthecat on Feb 26, 2011 1:27 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I love the lack of reply from the OP to this smackdown.
Served. Hi Mort. We miss you!
by dario argento on Feb 26, 2011 8:04 PM PST up reply actions
I'll state this again for clarification Mortimer, because you've got a well crafted post.
Similarities to Darius are length, hitting the boards for put backs and match up problems at the 3-4 position. Wallace is a way better player, no question and as I stated below I have mad respect for his hustle. I also respect Dante and Joe’s hustle. (By the way I don’t think Joel’s done, which seems to be a heavy point in many of the responses).
Secondly is Wallace better than Cunningham, of course, way better. My issue is that I don’t see Wallace as a back up 4 and I’m not sure he’ll be happy coming of the bench. This while figuring in a rotation that will heavily tax LA. How many run out dunks has he had lately? Those were a staple at the beginning of the season. Quite simply he’s getting tired and those minutes make me worry about injury.
I didn’t name a big man in the other post when replying to OregOden below, because I to figure who’s even available. I think Murphy is the best we could do. I just hope Cho has planned/arranged for some help in the post.
Wallace is much more of a big than Murphy
Murphy is non-existent on defense (certainly not a protector of the rim), they’re both similar rebounders, and Wallace guards the basket and opposing bigs much better.
Now, I agree we need another big man— with Joel being relied on when he can’t move still, it was a pre-existing problem. No playoff team wants to play Marks more than 3 minutes a game, as well. We need someone.
But out of people available (that I can think of), Wallace plays the biggest. He has been very good as a PF in the past, and while he has said he doesn’t like to play PF, within the context of the quotes it more sounds like he doesn’t want to ONLY play that (which he has done for the Bobcats and been injured while doing so). In the few minutes where LMA isn’t on the court, he and Batum can likely handle the backup PF minutes.
It may prove to not be ideal, but he’s very good at guarding the basket and can guard almost all PFs in the NBA. We won’t have a good answer for Pau and Bynum until Camby comes back, but Crash can guard Artest and Odom (and Kobe)— three guys we had no answer for before. And there aren’t really any answers for both Pau and Bynum together anyways… until/if Oden comes back. It’s part of the reason they’re soooo good.
I don’t think this means we are getting past the 1st round this season, though we could do it depending on matchups. But this gives us a good, in-his-prime player for basically “free” who gives us a better shot now and fits in for a great defensive team if we’re ever healthy. It doesn’t solve every problem we have, but it’s a step in the right direction— more defense, strong rebounding, diverse offense. Strong two-way player who can handle the ball and create his own shot and also work off the ball.
We need Camby to be healthy, and a 3rd and 4th big man. If we can get a serviceable 3rd big man, that’ll be good for now. There wasn’t one we could get at the trade deadline; no matter what we’re getting an old vet or a D-leaguer. Crash was great value AND does what Joel does better than Joel does it these days. He guards the bucket and rebounds like a big.
Mortimer
#20
(and Kobe)— three guys we had no answer for before.
Matthews and Batum can defend Br*ant as well as he can be defended, even Andre stayed home and bothered K*be the other night.
You’re right about Artest/Odom. Prior to the trade, Cunningham was the only player the right size to defend them, obviously Crash will be an upgrade in this area
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I gotta agree with the other two comments here...
we picked up a guy a year removed from the All-Star game and the All-Defense team. He can defend the wing and inside and has a knack for where the ball is going. I wonder how playing on a perennially bad team has impacted his mental state, and hence his game this year. He suddenly has a lot to play for, not only in regards to the playoffs, but a regularly sold out fan base. With his willingness to hit the hardwood for every loose ball and grab every rebound he can and man up on guys the fans will instantly take to him.
We gave up a borderline NBA player (Marks), a borderline role player (Cunningham), and a fading local legend (Przy… Have you seen him move? I attended the L@ker game… my knees hurt watching him lumber down the court) along with two picks, likely late first rounders (we buy those like Pez candies in the checkout line), not to mention that with Aldridge, Matthews, and Batum, we’re not really in rebuilding mode and in need of young gunners.
This was a trade that made us better in the short term and gave us options in the long term.
Wherever you may be; good night, eeeeeeverybody!
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Feb 25, 2011 8:25 PM PST reply actions
Mr. Swooper,
You have presented a thoughtful post. Thank you.
Let me reiterate some of your points…
Portland’s management team has been historically laughed at.
We are giving up size (Pryz and Marks) and one of our best young players (The Inferno).
For an unreliable, black hole (Crash).
This is Darius Miles Part 2.
We are giving up our future.
We will be dominated in the post.
This is unbelievable.
I am not going to respond to each point, because I agree with you. This is unbelievable! I’m amazed Cho was able to secure the services of Gerald Wallace for such a paltry sum. Late first round draft picks cost $3 million a piece, and are at best, hit and miss. Marks is an end of the bench insurance player. Dante is a 7th or 8th man, a second year rotation player with the potential (perhaps) to be a reasonably solid starter. Joel is self-admittedly, at the end of his career. We keep Andre,we keep Camby, we keep Boom Boom, and we keep Oden.
You make great points, only one of which, however, sways me in the least.
Go Blazers!
OregOden
by OregOden on Feb 25, 2011 8:35 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
Dante is a 10th or 11th man
on a team that isn’t obliterated by injuries. Would he get any time if Oden wasn’t injured? Would Joel?
"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez
Word
I love that we kept the vets, that was key, but we didn’t do ourselves any favors by getting so small. Lack of size is gonna be a huge deal for the remainder of the season.
You're right, Mr. Swooper.
It seemed to me though, the thrust of your argument was that we mortgaged the future to make a “playoff push” today. The Blazers have been fighting through adversity all year. I anticipate they will continue to do so. Crash helps, more than Joel could or Marks could ever dream of.
Blazer championship aspirations rest squarely on Greg’s shoulders. Will he ever be healthy? Who knows, but I’m not giving up hope.
I respect your opinion. Give the boys a chance before making a definitive judgement.
Thank you for your time,
OregOden
Your right. Let's see how the trade works out before judging Cho.
I just hope we have a big up our sleeve, so that LA doesn’t get run into the ground or injured because of his heavy load.
What are you talking about?
You say here that we should wait and “see how the trade works out before judging Cho.”
But the title of your original post is “Cho shows his stripes, another terrible move by management”
That sounds like a lot of judgement to me.
I think you should spend a little time reflecting and figuring out what it is you actually believe before you waste our time with this junk.
by JasonCantDunk on Feb 26, 2011 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
Thank you, Mr. Swooper,
for the 170 turnaround. That took guts and showed a fortitude and a self-awareness I wasn’t sure you possessed. We’ve only got ten more degrees to go. Stay with me.
Trust LMA’s off-season workouts. He’s built to last. I am confidant he’ll finish the season stronger than he started.
It has been an absolute pleasure discussing the matter with you.
Keep ’er real ;),
OregOden
I've got those qualities in Aces
How many run out lay ups and dunks has LA had lately? Those were a staple as the beginning of the season. He’s getting tired and with tired often comes injuries.
Wallace had to be the Bobcats best scorer.
So did Miles for us. On this team, Wallace has to hustle, play defense, clean the boards, and get garbage points. He won’t be asked to spot up 3s like Batum and Matthews. He won’t have set plays like LMA, Roy, and Miller. He will be the garbage man, which is where he is best.
And though you fear his defense of opposing power forwards, you fail to mention the mismatch problem he creates for other teams. How can an opposing team keep a big loafing PF on the floor against a lineup of Miller, Matthews, Batum, Wallace, and LMA? This team can flat out fly. But they can also defend and rebound better than any other small lineup in the league. You see this as a weakness, I see it as a strength.
"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez
though he could indeed spot of for 3
in whatever weird situation that might require it.
Wow
Do you have a crappy, late model Porshe you’d like to trade for my super nice, beat up, old Ford Escort?
We should bring in more scrub big men; they make good curse fodder.
by dan_the_man on Feb 25, 2011 8:59 PM PST reply actions 8 recs
Getting from A to B is more important than a fancy sports car that breaks down all the time.
How can something be super nice and beat up at the same time? HaHa. See I’m a blue collar cat, who has to get to work everyday. If the escort gets me there, that’s what I’m driving. Besides that the gas milage is great.
by Mr. Swooper on Feb 25, 2011 10:08 PM PST up reply actions
Dan the man is a blue collar guy too fwiw, and he does have a point that your tone is insulting and aggressive towards other people with a different opinion than you.
There’s room for all kinds of opinions here, but it’s generally frowned upon to speak in absolutes and question other visitor’s fandom. Your point about him not being able to see the future is sort of negated by your previous statement that you can, and we will all eventually see once our eyes are opened to the truth. Maybe don’t use something you already did, to tell someone else why they’re wrong?
Sure things might not be looking great right now, but look on the bright side. I have liquor.
by Tyler Durrden on Feb 25, 2011 11:14 PM PST up reply actions
tongue in cheek...dan_the_man was using the ol
tongue in cheek method. It is often used when someone is being sarcastic….
I will explain it to you. The parts “crappy” and “super nice” are the sarcastic components.
So I think that through the use of sarcasm, dan_the_man was comparing “crappy late model porche” to Wallace and “super nice, beat up old Ford Escort” to the players the Blazers traded…
all are supernice…Joel is beat up and Marks is on the old side.
I figured I’d explain all of this to you to make sure you would know what he was talking about.
here is a quote from the author of the NC Bobcats blog.
It’s from an interview. And it’s with regard to Wallace playing the 4.
He is extremely good at the PF position. It was a big reason that he went on that rebounding rampage in the first half of last season, during which he was averaging something crazy like 12 boards a game. But he doesn’t weigh enough to bang long term with other PFs on a full-time basis. If he plays it full-time he WILL get hurt. I certainly don’t wish any kind of injury on him, but it happened over and over in Charlotte whenever he logged heavy minutes at the 4.
Joel will always be one of my favorite Blazers
I’ve been a fan since I was six or seven back in 1990 and in order it goes Clyde, Sabas, Brandon, Porter, Kersey, Buck, then Joel.
That being said, trading Joel, who we’ve played without for over a year and has shared time with Sean Marks since his return, along with Dante (a good but NOT great role player), Sean “kiwi” Marks, and 2 picks for Crash Wallace, is a smart decision.
Paul Allen will buy some late 1st round picks if he and Cho want them that bad.
Joel has an opportunity to come back to Portland if he wants next year. If he was really wants to retire its his decision. He will be a free agent at the end of the season no matter what and if he really wants to be here he can play next year for the veteran minimum just like Juwan. I would love it if he did.
If it really doesn’t work with Crash we can trade him as a good player and expiring player. You don’t think Gerald Wallace could be our best trade piece next year? If it doesn’t work out then that means he’s also our most expendable player. Maybe for CP3? – just kidding
"AND THE GAME IS OVER! THE GAME IS OVER!! THE PORTLAND TRAILBLAZERS HAVE WON THE NBA CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!" Bill Schonely, game 6 of the NBA Finals, 1977 and 2011
No one's gonna want him in a trade.
I thought about that, but nobody’s gonna want him for the next two years at that price if he doesn’t work out.
by Mr. Swooper on Feb 25, 2011 10:11 PM PST up reply actions
WOW
I know we are not supposed to berate people or personally attack them for their posts, but wow…..
Smile, you're on a poster!
by RoysOurBoy on Feb 25, 2011 9:10 PM PST reply actions
Sersiously????
Everyone is too attached to players
by Hoi on Feb 25, 2011 9:55 PM PST via mobile reply actions
This post is about rotation, size and chemistry, not keeping players.
The trade is fools gold, because what we gain creates more holes that we can’t compensate for.
by Mr. Swooper on Feb 25, 2011 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
Alright.
Camby comes back and Wallace takes Dante spot…. Roy is back as well. So Joel wasn’t gonna play n e ways and marks… Haha yah don’t web need to say.
by Hoi on Feb 25, 2011 10:24 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Not alright.
We still need a PF/Center to make the rotation work, otherwise were gonna ride LA tell the tires fall off. You’re right Marks sucks, but we should have actively pursued a big.
by Mr. Swooper on Feb 25, 2011 10:32 PM PST up reply actions
Camby comes back soon
We’ll probably pick up a d league center for spot minutes when LA and Camby are resting. Hopefully Greg will be back early next year. We’re not winning a championship this year anyway.
We should bring in more scrub big men; they make good curse fodder.
by dan_the_man on Feb 25, 2011 10:35 PM PST up reply actions
doubt Oden comes back at the beginning of the season unless the
beginning of the season is delayed..which it may be!!!
I think the recovery time is a little bit longer than this…getting into game shape and all of that…
Yah ummm check. Recent reply down below....
by Hoi on Feb 25, 2011 10:52 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Camby can play both PF and center
as can LMA. Crash can play both 3 an 4. Nico can play 3 (and some 4) and defend 1 through 3 (and some 4).
We need to pick up at least one more solid backup big somewhere but, other than that, we have a pretty solid 8 man rotation. We have two open roster spots. We can get LMA to under 40 minutes.
Crash combines the production of Pryz, Dante and Marks into one player in fewer minutes + more consistently. The guy can hit from 3, defend, dunk and rebound.
Crash, Camby, LMA and our rebound crazy guard pack will terrorize other teams on the boards.
What are these holes you speak of?
Joel? We’ve been without the dude for the past year and he has not made any impact since his return
Dante? Uh, we got crash, enough said
Marks? Marks can be replaced with any D-leaguer over 6’-9"
Two protected picks? PA will buy em if he wants em
NO HOLES
"AND THE GAME IS OVER! THE GAME IS OVER!! THE PORTLAND TRAILBLAZERS HAVE WON THE NBA CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!" Bill Schonely, game 6 of the NBA Finals, 1977 and 2011
by dirtboydave on Feb 26, 2011 10:33 AM PST up reply actions
Oh yah so let me add this....
We traded crapy picks…. 3 expiring contracts for a secured starter that averages 15-8…. All 3 of those players dont even combine an average of 15 pt n 8 rebound!
Joel was comptemplating retirement after this season…
Marks is gone for sure…..
Dante isn’t as good as Wallace by far….
We have 2 extra roaster spot…
We can pick up 2 guys better than marks, or equvalent to a skill set of Dante…
We still have a draft pick this yr… A pick around 20s cost 3mil….
So tell me how is that bad?
Camby is comming back. Wallace can play the 4.
How is this a bad trade?
We pretty much traded Dante for Wallace!
If u want marks is getting waived. Go resign him. But they won’t cuz he sux!
Joel can possibly be waived. We can resign him…. So what’s ur complaint???
The trade is for the future…. We have our pick this yr… If we sux we still have a lottery pick. If we r good we r good!
by Hoi on Feb 25, 2011 10:18 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Who?
My point is who are we gonna pick up? There’s not a lot of bigs available to fill those spots. We should have been picking up size and an Aldridge back up. So LA plays center, who backs him up. Wallace plays PF, who backs him up. We’re thin and it’s gonna get exposed real early.
Line up... Btw we won with a batum at center!
Dre
Wes
Batum/Wallace
LA
Camby
Bench
Rudy
Roy
Wallace/batum
Rudy can play pg to sf
Same with Roy
Batum can play sg-C ( played center tonight)just like Dante
Wallace can play Sf and Pf same sz as Dante…..
So what’s the diff? Umm oh yah te 15 pt and 8 rebound and oh and did u know Wallace was all NBA 1st defensive team last yr? Oh and all star last yr….
Oh yah he hussles and has crazy hops! Oh and attempts more free throws than all 3 plays traded combine…
Shall I go on?
Averaged 2 blocks and 2 steals last yr. The only one that did that last yr…!
Teams are gonna have to match up with us not us to them. Bigs are too slow to get down the court and will get killed by our speed. Batum can stretch the bigs when he’s at the C or PF position.
Wallace is a rebounding machine!
So tell me…is this line up not scary to other teams?
Wes
Batum
Wallace
LMA
Camby
All are crazy defenders! All are long and can block shots. All are mobile!
LMA shows he can score
Batum can hit the open shots and can score
Wes can score n get to the line
Wallace does the same
Camby is an offensive rebounding machine!
Defense … Offense… We got it now!
The other night against the lakers…. How did they finish the game?
Pau
Odom
Artest
Kobe
Fisher
No true center… Only a pf, 2 sf and guards… Same line up we would play….
Tonight? Same deal Denver had bigs… But didn’t play cuz our small ball was killing them so they adjusted to us and played small ball as well….
Keep going? Alright….
Can Dante defend these players one on one?
Lebron, pierce, odom, Carmelo…..?
Nope but let me tell u who can?
g. Wallace can!
Let’s compare a line up that can match up with Miami….
Wes on wade
Wallace on lebron
LMA on bosh
Camby on ilgauskis
And batum on miller
Pretty dang good if u ask me!
by Hoi on Feb 25, 2011 10:50 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Bigs we can go after in the next week
Troy Murphy, Leon Powe, Joel Pryzbilla (maybe), Chris Johnson, Earl Barron, Sean Marks (last for a reason)
If Miami picks up Troy they will probably drop a big
There’s more that I don’t even know about both in the NBA and the NBDL
by Trail Ducker on Feb 26, 2011 11:04 AM PST up reply actions
that was my impression as well
my impulse was to respond “TRADE CHO”, but then I saw some were taking the dude seriously!
Win the day!
I'm wondering why Mr. Swooper isn't
just replacing Cho after this last miserable trade. I suggest he just submit his CV and get the whole thing over with.
So what if we don’t have every position established this season. A championship team is being assembled before out eyes. We will probably have Pendagraph coming back and we are now extremely tough. With Greg coming strong next year what’s the sky will be the limit. Oden is an all star caliber player and has shown it. You can’t blame him or Roy for their injuries. That’sjust unfortunate. We might not have size at the moment but will make up for it with toughness untill we get our key guys back. I honestly see the blazers contending in the next two years!
@Mr. Swooper....
Look I appologize if I went over board or sounded rude…but look my friend… The deal was awesome for the future… And belive it or not looks pretty good for the present…
The rotation is solid. It maybe small but it’s very very solid…
If anything… A big body is available in 30 days… Sean Marks…
And if Joel get bought out… I’m sure we will se a Joel back in red and black in time for the playoffs.
Give a few weeks u’ll learn to love this trade. Watch on Sunday and ull see. Peace
by Hoi on Feb 25, 2011 11:18 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Not overboard Hoi, you were just trying to right the ship and it's appreciated.
I’m frustrated with a trade that 1) makes us smaller and forces Aldridge to play too many minutes and 2) I thought Dante’s play of late was excellent and Joel has given his all for years, 3) those draft picks could of been leveraged for a more strategic move in the draft.
While other folks are on here screaming troll, you committed to a thoughtful post about the lineups were gonna run and that’s dope. I just think we were a first round playoff team before the trade and were a first round playoff team after the trade, so Cho could have leveraged resources to get better next year when all other options dropped off the table.
Alright...
Well so check it out like I said draft picks are easy to get the management has proven that for the last 5 yrs…. If u think about it it actually made and created more moves for the future and more assets. Now that we have Wallace batum is more expandable while his value is through the roof! If Wallace does not pan out… He can also be shipped away during the draft….
For example…. Could u ever see cp3 get traded to the blazers for Joel, Dante and marks???? I don’t think so…
But could u see the blazers make a move during the draft for cp3 for batum/Wallace with miller picks cash and other assets? I belive so…
I think everyone expects us to be a 1 and done in the post season… But i like our chances better now. I belive if Wallace comes off the bench he will dominate! He avg 8 rebounds and 15 pts! Imagine him aginst the Dante and Joel of the world??? He creates mis matches and problems from opposing teams. Don’t worry the opponent is more likely to try to compete with our length and speed over us with their sz and strength…. How many teams out in the west are big? 1…. Just the lakers with Bynum and like I stated up above they prefer finishing with a smaller and versitle line up.
Wallaces d is crazy! I’m sure u don’t have to worry about LMA min after Sunday. Wallace and camby is back. Roy is back as well. Those 3 players needs mins and LMA has them to share!
I’m sure cho has plans for the 2 roster spots we have. This guy is smart and I can see it by this move.
All I advise u is get on this wagon and enjoy the ride!
by Hoi on Feb 26, 2011 12:32 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I hear you...
Those numbers have been there because he’s been a bottom feeder in a pond of small fish. My issue isn’t with what Wallace’s abilities are. He’s talented, but if were depending on him for size off the bench it won’t be enough. I can see small ball working, like your Lakers example, but Gasol is a finesse center and Odom plays big while Kobe is a late game assassin. It’s gonna have to be Aldridge, Wallace and Roy doing the same thing while LA plays heavy minutes against larger teams and Roy is working back from his injury. It’s asking a lot of that lineup, but then again Nate seems to find away to get it from them.
I have hope and must apologize for some my comments earlier, but many people on this site were acting like this was a phenomenal trade. After I first posted I was getting relentlessly attacked and didn’t respond with the kind of composure I expect from others. Thanks for keeping cool and collected, instead of pushing it further into waste of time and energy to dissent. Mad Props.
Like I said...
We have 2 spots. We can sign bigs. Look for teams that rnt going to the play offs waive their bigs. Also LMA is not the only big. Camby is back tomorrow. LMA will see his min decrease to 35-37…. And nights when we need him to step up 38-40. If LMA wants to be a star those are star mins. I get what u mean. But should really worry about it. LMA is a smart player he is learning to pace him self. That’s what stars do. If he didn’t play so much mins he wouldn’t of evolved. He wouldn’t of known how to pace him self. He bulk up in the summer for a reason and it’s paying off.
Also cho can sign big like I said. Yet can come in for 1-2 min at the of end and beginning of qt.
The bottom line the move was great it was awesome. High risk high reward. Risk being gave up sz and reward getting back an awesome talent and asset.
How good would this trade be if some how Joel or Murphy gets bought out and we can sign both or 1 of them? There still time to add a big that’s why we have 2 slots. Marks didn’t have to be involved in that trade he could of been kept and the numbers would of still worked. I’m sure cho traded marks because he knows something that we don’t. Keep ur eyes and ears out. I’m sure within the next 2 weeks there will be some moves to be done via free agencies.
Look forward for the future and cheer for the moment. Let’s go blazers!
by Hoi on Feb 26, 2011 3:51 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
It's one game Hoi, but things to consider.
Wallace touched the ball 10 times in the first half and shot 9 of those times, going 1 for 9. I know he doesn’t know the offense yet, but this is the black hole I was talking about. If that trend continues, we could be in trouble. He attacked better in the second half, but once again only moved the ball 2 or 3 times without looking for his shot first.
Secondly, we got killed on the boards. When the second unit came in 1st quarter their back up PF, Pachouli?, had 7 rebounds. That’s what he averages for a game.
Third, LA’s injury scare. Don’t tell me you weren’t praying to the basketball gods as he walked back to the locker room. His minutes are a very real issue in this situation and if that’s not resolved, this trade could be a bust.
Look at our recent late-round picks...
People seem upset that we gave up these two picks. Look at our recent late-1st round picks. Luke Babbit, Elliot Williams, Victor Claver…
The last good player we got in the late 1st was Batum, whose ceiling is pretty much Gerald Wallace. Good trade Cho.
Batum's ceiling is Tayshawn Prince
He’ll never be a banger like Wallace.
i love basketball satire!
Resident Smartass.
and my residency is Blazersedge.com
by Devyn on Feb 25, 2011 11:36 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Word. That's true.
I was referring to fan reaction, not caliber of player. Like I said below Wallace has more heart in his pinky than Darius has in his whole body.
so why are you so down on this trade?
you thought Dante was the second comming of christ? you thought joel had a lot of gas left in the tank? you don’t think late 1st round picks can be bought? man crush on kiwi marks?
"AND THE GAME IS OVER! THE GAME IS OVER!! THE PORTLAND TRAILBLAZERS HAVE WON THE NBA CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!" Bill Schonely, game 6 of the NBA Finals, 1977 and 2011
by dirtboydave on Feb 26, 2011 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
way to adress a legit question
"AND THE GAME IS OVER! THE GAME IS OVER!! THE PORTLAND TRAILBLAZERS HAVE WON THE NBA CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!" Bill Schonely, game 6 of the NBA Finals, 1977 and 2011
by dirtboydave on Feb 28, 2011 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
Another terrible move by management? You serious?
We didn’t give up the core (Matthews, Batum, Aldridge), the secondary core (Roy, Oden), and the productive vets (Miller, Camby)…And we didnt give up our outside shooter Rudy…
What we got is an excellent defender, good rebounder, and legit scorer. Oh yeah did I mention he’s a hustle/energy guy. Don’t compare Wallace to Miles. Miles never went to an all star game and never sniffed First team all defense.
This guy can hold his own defensively against Artest, Durant, Dirk, etc. Sure we lost some depth, but we are such a better defensive team.
Crash, Batum, Matthews, Aldridge, and Camby. Those are some defenders.
Man I’m excited.
C – Camby/Aldridge
PF – Aldridge/Wallace
SF – Batum/Wallace/Rudy
SG – Matthews/Roy/Rudy
PG – Miller/Mills
I’ll agree will need to find a Center who can play the last two minutes of the first quarter, and the 1st two minutes of the 2nd quarter…But Pryz was worth giving up. Dante? C’mon he was solid, but he wasn’t part of the core.
Not sure the trade is a slam dunk...
and I share your concerns about size going down the stretch run into the playoffs this year. But Wallace is an upgrade over Dante as a smaller guy trying to play PF and Joel was struggling to produce anywhere near what he had in the past. That is no knock on him, it just means the Blazers actually cashed in the value of his contract instead of standing pat and hoping Joel could give them something this year.
I don’t think the Blazers lose much in the deal even if Wallace doesn’t work out. There is a chance Wallace and the rest of the team will respond like Camby and the Blazers last year and make a strong run for the 5 seed. It seems like a low risk, high reward deal to me.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
Give Cho a Break.
Trades are about the art of the possible, not the impossible. Once the Harris trade fell off the table when Utah entered the picture, the Blazers were left with either going for the best available player, or for a big man. In point of fact, I don’t believe the Blazers had the assets to get a big man at an acceptable price that would have made a contribution this year to have carried us any further in the playoffs, than Wallace. If you believe that, name one, name the team, and look at 1) whether you wanted that man or his salary on the books for several or more years; 2) whether the team trading him wanted a salary dump; or 3) whether the Blazers had the assets to trade if the requirement was to get a viable big man back to fill the hole left by trading that big man. In point of fact, the Harris trade was packaged around a veteran PG with several years or more of good skills left to offset the loss of Harris, and draft picks. To duplicate this, we would’ve had to trade one big man for a second, and the only option there was Camby. But Camby is an expensive short term filler heading into a likely lock-out whose skills are declining because of age. You’d be unrealistic to think that we could pick up a younger player at a reasonable price for Camby. Further, Pryz doesn’t even factor into this scenerio because he’s not healthy, and his future playing skill is in serious doubt. No one was going to do a straight up trade for Pryz of talent for talent. I can understand the disappointment some have over not getting that proverbial big man, but before anyone jumps to conclusions, give yourself two goals. One, target the big man you wanted and reconstruct from the trade that was made what the Blazers would’ve had to do to duplicate this trade, and two, demonstrate that this trade would’ve 1) enabled the Blazers to progress deeper into the playoffs this season; 2) would have come at a price that would have given the Blazers an asset that could’ve been turned into an equal future asset in a future trade.
My take on Wallace is that he met Cho’s number one criteria. He’s 28, has played in and started 85% of his games over the last 4 seasons plus this one, and his trade value in the future is the same or greater as the assets we gave up. In sum, there is no down side if we simply swapped assets for a future trade – regardless of what we gave up today. You cannot, on the record, make the claim that Cunningham has the same value as Wallace, nor that Pryz will, in the future, be the player he was in the past. In sum, at worst we traded two second line players for an established starter, and at best we traded one second team player for one first team player. The draft picks are irrelevant, given the Charlotte pick at this point would be the 21st, and Allen buys those if we want them. On this criteria alone, this was a good trade.
In the second place, he met Cho’s second primary criteria, which he stated clearly recently, which was that the Blazers were going to keep Aldridge, Batum and Matthews, and that everyone else was either a question mark (Pryz, Roy, Oden, Williams – injuries), untradeable given demands (Fernandez) or tradeable given age (Miller, Camby), or youth (Mills, Babbitt).
If you’re being fair to yourself and to managment, you must accept that Cho did not have the assets to acquire a “sufficiently” good player to take this team to the championship level – and knew it. This is not, as a result, the end game. This is simply a step in getting to the end game.
The next steps will be to make a final decision about Oden, and to determine what contribution Roy can make going forward, both of which will very likely happen before the trade deadline next year – assuming there is no lockout and we have a trade deadline. Once we have that final picture, Cho will then be able move to the next stage of this plan.
Some want to build Rome in the proverbial day – but that’s not how it works. Cho will need at least two and maybe three years to reconstruct the Blazers who, given the players we have, are a work in progress. Bayless was the first step – which gave Cho an asset that helped him add a better asset. Wallace is that second and better asset.
Will we win the big prize this year? No. Would we have won the big prize if we’d picked up a big body? Not given the players that were available.
Give him a break. We’ll have a good and entertaining team. It will be fun to watch, and we’
ll keep winning more games than we lose. In the interim, give him the time to sort out the very real issues we have, particularly with Roy and Oden.
Some want to grade Cho before he even takes the final exam. Not me.
by Eben Calder on Feb 26, 2011 5:05 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Thank You for a well written response.
I agree that this team is gonna be fun to watch and Wallace will definitely contribute. My frustration lies in the fact that LA is being put in the situation that he has to carry heavy minutes. He’s stepped up and will continue to, no question, but the lack of depth at the 4 and 5 position is gonna hurt the team. As far as big men we could of acquired, your on point. Cho didn’t have pieces that he could leverage for a high level player, so bring in a hustle guy to clean up rebounds because our second team is gonna get creamed on the boards. We can run an 8 man rotation, but Batum as back up center isn’t gonna work on a regular like it did against Denver.
agree that LMA's minutes need to come down
we need to keep him available for the Playoffs! C’mon Blazers. We can’t afford to burn up our best player
Win the day!
I've always been on the side of adding a backup PF/Center to
take the pressure off of LaMarcus as well. Whether or not this is Cho’s next move remains to be seen, but we certainly need that final piece – at least for now.
That isn't a novel. Novels are, by definition, fiction
Eben wrote straight up truth!!
Harry Bosch: "Everybody counts....or nobody counts."
by 92wastheyear on Feb 27, 2011 8:10 AM PST up reply actions
lololol Darius? really?
Noooooo GW =/= DM
not even close.
Darius was a Me first type of guy… who would never say anything to the effect of what GW has said about Charlotte, dude put his heart out on the line for that city…
Darius on the other hand… Liked Icecream.
this is funny.
The Faith don't panic, the Faith freaks out, burns out small farms and villages in the name of the Faith.
Okay, I went too far.
Wallace is infinitely better than Darius. My point was that when we acquired Darius, many Blazers fans went crazy thinking he was gonna have a huge impact and provide a much needed edginess. Wallace has struggled and played hard for teams at the bottom of the league. He’s a hardnose player, that Darius, should never be compared to. My bad.
Not pileing on here
Mr. Swooper thank you for writing your thoughts. You have succeeded in drawing a good number or responses even though they mostly are arguments against. I am sad that some have felt the need to attack the motives or person of the poster. That is not the BE I have known and loved.
As far as your contentions, I too am presenting an alternative view of this trade. There are a number of points that have not been completely presented for this view.
Dante Cunningham is an amazing man. I have enjoyed his stay in Portland immensely, especially his energy. But Dante is a JAG (just another player) in Bill Parcells language. He is replaceable in the 2nd round of the draft nearly every year. Gerald Wallace brings amazing energy to the game as well. He also brings more talent by far (evidence his choice as All-Star and All-NBA Defensive team).
Joel Przybilla is among my favorite players. His choice of Portland when he was a free agent (twice) was instrumental in recruiting other free agents and in the terrific growth of this team. He will be back in 30 days or at least by the end of the season.
Two draft picks are not mortgaging our future. This year’s draft is said to be among the worst for many years. Currently New Orleans’ pick would be 22nd and just after the Blazers pick at 21. If the assessment of the draft is correct the 22nd pick could well obtain the talent of the 45th pick in other drafts. It remains to be seen who gets selected at 22 and how he does but the cost is not great from this vantage point. The second pick sent to Charlotte is in 2013. It might be that the Blazers can send any 1st round pick in that year (normal) and thus can acquire an additional pick for cash to send if they desire to stay in the first round of 2013. Portland currently retains its own 21st (projected) pick this year. This is perhaps, in light of the assessment ,not a year to move up in the draft.
Sean Marks is the final piece of this trade, His inclusion (my guess) was at the insistence of the Blazers to clear a roster spot to try to sign a buy-out player, There are several bigs in this position and would be helpful.
Finally you are rightfully concerned with LaMarcus’ minutes. Wallace helps with that but the real key is Marcus Camby (Aren’t you glad the Blazers did not get to draft DeMarcus Cousins to have DeMarcus, Marcus and LaMarcus?). Marcus is said to be coming back any game now and his presence will drop LaMarcus’ minutes to the 39-40 range.
So my view is Rich Cho and his staff have acquired another All-Star (he makes three now for the Blazers with LaMarcus and Brandon) for little cost in talent. The money is not my concern and apparently not Paul Allen’s concern, unlike Michael Jordan. I am delighted that Mr Cho did not trade Greg Oden because I still believe in his return and that Oden’s presence is the key to the Blazers becoming a championship contender. Thank you for the entertaining post.
I was disappointed with the posts that insulted the poster as well.
Mr. Swooper posted his concern with management, a valid topic for a Blazers site. He told us how he saw it. He didn’t insult the fanbase in doing so. It was just that his position wasn’t held by very many people. This alone does not make him a troll. But rather those who responded with personal attacks were being trolls. And those comments have been taken down.
What I am pleased with is the number of posts that are left. There were a lot of thoughtful responses. And I’m pleased with that. This is what makes Blazersedge as good as it is. Thoughtful posters engaged in productive discussion.
"The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason." - G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1909
Blazersedge.com || New to Blazersedge?
Actions -> Rec and Flag. Blazersedge works right when you use these two things.
by T Darkstar on Feb 26, 2011 4:10 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
No matter the idea
I don’t think Swooper was out of line, and even if he was we as a regular part of the community need to take the higher road.
Oftentimes, one just doesn’t get how we do things and if we deal with them respectfully, they get how it works and change their ignorant combative ways (I am not describing Swooper this way— even though I don’t agree with what he was saying in the main body of his post, he wasn’t a jerk down here).
We gotta represent the site with intelligence, not insults. Especially to someone new.
Mortimer
#20
by Mortimer on Feb 27, 2011 4:37 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Mr Swooper is the quintessential "That guy"
Just leave him alone people.
And Mr. Swooper, here’s the site rules http://www.blazersedge.com/2007/5/27/35733/4476. You might wanna check ‘em out and possible slow your roll, because honestly, you’re doing pretty much everything that’s under the list of pet peeves of the guy who runs this site, I just think it’s fair to warn you that you.
the only concern i have with this trade is wallce coming off the bench a former all star not gonna be happy
is where are the minutes for gerald wallace going to come from??? i mean we have andre broy, westly, rudy, aldridge, batum, camby, p mills,
andre can’t play shooting guard cuz he can’t shoot.
roy can play point and shooting guard but then hes taken patty mills minutes or rudys
rudy can’t play the 3 we seen that happen and him get owned and hes gonna have to compete with westly and roy for his postions minutes
westly i don’t think can play the three… haven’t seen it
mills can play point and shooting gaurd but now has to compete with roy and miller for minutes at point… and rudy westly and roy at sg
batum can play 4 if there small but gonna start 3 and gerald wallace is gonna get 20 mins there? off the bench do you put a former all star on the bench to start?
Wallace plays 3 and 4 but with camby and LA and whenever oden comes back
La can play 4 and 5
Camby 5
10 mil bench player? i mean isn’t that gonna hurt batum if we start wallace? or is batum expendable now? i just don’t get it
Mins rnt a problem...
There’s post about this and has a break down. It’s the stretch fr the play offs every team cuts rotation to 7-8 players. Just look at every play off team right now… Everyone plays 7-8 main players and 1-2 players for scrap 1-2 mins.
Gotta remember Roy isn’t 100% his mins on normal games are gonna be tight. If anything it’ll be 20-25 at most for Roy. He showed e can be productive in that role last night.
Patty will see is mins get cut. He knows that weather he likes it or not. There’s much better player to be put on the floor over him.
Wes needs his mins cut down to 30. He’s been playoff heavy mins enduring some nagging injuries to that ankle of his. In sure hrs happy to share his mins. Batum never plays more that 25-30 mins anyways. He is fine with that and yes he is now a expandable asset while his value is high!
We trade Dante and Joel. Wallace easily takes their mins.
So check that fanpost out on te crack down on mins.
by Hoi on Feb 26, 2011 4:02 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
You know we got the best end of the trade when this is the title of the article on ESPN about the trade:
“Michael Jordan defends deadline trade”
There's always gonna be a contrarian in every crowd
Wallace will win you over. This was a screaming deal with very little chance of turning sour in the years to come
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
two comments in two days!! Yay!!! I'm having fun!!!
Sure things might not be looking great right now, but look on the bright side. I have liquor.
Mr. Swooper, you're partially right on this point
We are historically laughed at for our terrible decisions as an organization.
Like letting expiring contracts go at the trade deadline without getting any value in return. I’ll miss Joel but we got value this time and Gerald Wallace was a great player to break that streak with.
"I don’t think it’s lost. I don’t think it’s lost. It’s adversity and something that we have to deal with. We wish it wasn’t like this, but it is."
-Brandon Roy 11/18/2010 as told to CBSSports.com blog
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
NBA Playoffs Content Module
Related FanPosts on Blazer's Edge
Related FanShots on Blazer's Edge
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Behind the Box Score, where the Boston Celtics are moving on to the conference finals
- NBA Playoffs Fan Fiction: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
- The Indiana Pacers? Gone till November
- Shaquille O’Neal is in a Chinese beer commercial, too (VIDEO)
- ‘Deep Thoughts’ and Cheap Thoughts: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
