Trade Analysis: Do It or Not?
by Dave on Feb 21, 2011 10:11 PM PST
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PrintScroll down from this post (and I'm sure up as well, quite soon) and you'll see the reported trade rumors flying fast and thick around the Portland Trail Blazers. We're going to take a look at the proposed moves here, asking how seriously the Blazers should consider them.
Andre Miller and Joel Przybilla to New Jersey for Devin Harris and Troy Murphy (Latest Links)
This is the glowing hot rumor of the hour. The trade wouldn't work as-is. Portland would have to throw in extra players, likely Sean Marks or Dante Cunningham plus one of the following: Luke Babbitt, Elliot Williams, Rudy Fernandez, Nicolas Batum. Batum's inclusion would presumably make the conversation a non-starter but Portland shouldn't balk at including the other players.
Portland will have several issues with Harris. He's not going to fit as well as the now-seamless Miller. His production, both in bulk terms and per-minute, has sagged significantly over the past couple of years. He spiked with a fantastic 2008-09 season, his first full campaign in New Jersey. Only his assist total has survived. Points per game are down 6, free throw attempts 3, shot attempts 4, minutes 5 per game. He's actually near his pre-trade Dallas Maverick levels with the notable exception that his field goal percentage has plummeted (and did the moment he came to the Nets). His defense, once considered a strong point, has become porous. His three-point percentage has never been good. He's played 80+ games in a season only once in his career.
There's a whopping huge asterisk attached to all of this, however: he was playing in New Jersey. And yes, that's delivered in the same tone as Fred Armisen's impression of Governor David Paterson. When surrounded by decent players Harris produced well. When ensconced in a terrible system with abysmal players on a team destined to lose 90% of its games Harris looks mediocre or worse. What does this tell you? That he's not going to be a savior. But it also offers hope that he can be buoyed by his surroundings. This is exactly the kind of guy the Blazers need to look for. They're not going to pry an All-Star from somebody by dangling Miller and contracts. They have to make do with a good player hopefully just in need of a change.
As far as those players go, Harris isn't a bad bet. He's tall enough, quick enough, and can score. He draws fouls. His Dallas-era field goal percentage was astonishing. His Dallas-era defense was plenty good. He's 27 (almost 28) years old, right in his prime. Two years ago he was an All-Star. His contract is reasonable: $9.3 million next year, $8.5 the year after. And even at this low point his points and assists are better than Miller's on a per-minute basis. He may not elevate the team much over Miller this year but years down the road the potential for change could be significant.
Everybody else in this deal is a non-factor compared to Miller and Harris. Murphy's contract is expiring, as is Przybilla's. Anyone else is a throw-in. If the Nets will agree to this deal (and there are plenty of rumors surrounding Harris and/or Murphy going elsewhere) Portland should pull the trigger. At worst it's an incremental loss this season--maybe not even that--and it could be an enormous gain later.
Greg Oden to the Warriors for...?
Yeah, for what? They'd laugh and laugh at including Stephen Curry or Monta Ellis. Andris Biedrins has battled injuries--though not as chronic as Oden's--and his once-sterling production has slowed. David Lee's contract is out of this universe expensive. Who else on that team would make as much of a potential difference as Oden? Unless, of course, the Blazers aren't planning to keep Oden in which case a Biedrins deal might make sense. Otherwise, no.
Gerald Wallace to the Blazers for...?
The Blazers have a couple issues here: health and distance shooting. Nate McMillan has relied on his small forwards to hit the floor-stretching three. That's not Wallace. In fact if you take him off the fast break he becomes much less of a force. But what a force he is on the run. And he's often able to impose his will on opposing teams through his sheer physicality, making them play the game that favors him. Who knows if McMillan's style would allow that adaption though? He's an imposing rebounder and a hustle guy. He can defend. As long as he stayed healthy and had enough freedom Portland fans would come to love this guy. His contract isn't even that bad at $10.5 million this year, next year, and the same on a player option for 2011-12.
Then again...health. We said health. The guy's had concussions. He's played 70+ games in only 4 of his 8 complete seasons in the league. It's the Trail Blazers. It's a guy's health.
The big question would be what the Blazers are giving up. Camby would work but then the Blazers are center-less. Miller could be included but then they're point-guard-less. Przybilla would make numbers match but he's cap relief. The Bobcats can't trade Wallace for cap relief. Including Nicolas Batum would be near-mandatory if Joel were in the deal. Batum is younger and will ultimately end up the better defender and marksman. But Batum hasn't yet shown the ability to dominate. He's an amazing complementary piece. It comes down to what the Blazers think they need. If it's just somebody to play alongside a hopefully returning and healthy Roy plus Aldridge and maybe Oden, Batum is the better fit. But if you're shaky on one or more of those players and you're looking for a guy to fill shoes, Wallace would be more appropriate. This one's impossible to call until we know more about which players will be included.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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Devin Harris!
PGOTF.. and the present!
#7
by collectiveshane on Feb 21, 2011 10:13 PM PST reply actions
Question about Harris.
Why is new jersey so hot on dumping him? Are they in tank mode? And is this how we thank Andre, by shipping him to clippers east?
by doomsdaymachine on Feb 22, 2011 2:33 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Na, just because he's been a bit of a quitter.
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
yesterday on 95.5 they said Harris had been clashing with Avery Brooks
not sure what about, but I think he would fit in a McMillan system, but I don’t think it’s worth giving up Batum, Cunningham, or Rudy to get him. Marks, Babbitt or Williams is fine but Nets understandably have set their sights higher.
"I don’t think it’s lost. I don’t think it’s lost. It’s adversity and something that we have to deal with. We wish it wasn’t like this, but it is."
-Brandon Roy 11/18/2010 as told to CBSSports.com blog
Avery Johnson
my bad
"I don’t think it’s lost. I don’t think it’s lost. It’s adversity and something that we have to deal with. We wish it wasn’t like this, but it is."
-Brandon Roy 11/18/2010 as told to CBSSports.com blog
We thanked Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw by sending them to the actual Clippers.
If New Jersey cant get a superstar caliber player through free agency or through trade, they’re looking to start drafting one. And to do that, you start getting rid of your players who are too good to tank with, but not good enough to be your new superstar. Harris is that kind of player. That, and you might as well save some money while your tanking, because you wont be making it from the turnstile.
I don’t know if it’s the right move for Portland or not. But I don’t count it against Harris that the Nets are looking to move him.
"The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason." - G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1909
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Keep Miller....period. Don't do this trade.
Buddy is a goooood dog!
by nascent on Feb 22, 2011 10:12 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
here, here!
I will raise my glass to that
Do not do this trade, please.
by 1ofthe7 on Feb 22, 2011 12:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Stand pat
Harris is not a sufficient enough upgrade over Miller to justify destroying the chemistry that has emerged on the team – especially between Aldridge and Miller.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
by DonkeyShins on Feb 21, 2011 10:16 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
.. But Miller is old.
Harris is young. Simple as that.
#7
by collectiveshane on Feb 21, 2011 10:17 PM PST up reply actions
I'd argue
That Miller is a ‘young old’. His game doesn’t introduce a lot of wear & tear on his body. Plus IMHO, he’s a smarter, craftier player than Harris. I’d love to have Harris, but not at the cost of Miller + Cunningham + Rudy (or Batum). You think New Jersey is going to be content with Sean Marks and Luke Babbitt (or Williams)? Think again.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
by DonkeyShins on Feb 21, 2011 10:20 PM PST up reply actions
good point, Andre's "iron man" status goes a long way to trump the "old" mantra
LaMarcus Aldridge's "All-Star Snub Tour" coming to a city near you.
If Miller is 'young old', might Harris be 'old young'
given his style of play and injury history?
Also, if your starting PG is only able to play 60 games/year, how many wins does that cost?
I mean Andre plays 82 games/year; 81 if a youngster needs to be told his place.
by jrj on Feb 21, 2011 11:26 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Keeping Miller is a no-brainer Miller
Especially when you consider we’ll have to throw Fernandez their way or eat 4 more years of Outlaw’s contract (disaster). We’ll weaken an already suspect bench and get nothing better in return. Avery Johnson wants nothing to do with Harris, and he’s won a championship in the league as a starting PG. What does that tell you?
Keep Miller on for 11-12’, and revisit next trade deadline. The Blazers could be in contention in th Western Conference by then if Cho actually focuses on filling the need positions on this team, instead of breaking up our performing ones.
I also want to get a better look at Armon Johnson
Before commiting to Harris. I still like Armon, and he tore up the D-League recently.
How do you know this?
Especially when you consider we’ll have to throw Fernandez their way or eat 4 more years of Outlaw’s contract (disaster).
Those were just rumors, we don’t know that the actual deal. No one here is advocating overpaying for Harris, but if the FO feels his stock is low and he is the guy they want (they’ve clearly liked him for awhile), then now is their opportunity to acquire him. Not this summer. Not next trade deadline.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
also...
Harris is a very selfish player and hates Portland.
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
haha...yeah! Screw that Harris guy, what a bum
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 22, 2011 12:11 PM PST up reply actions
I have to agree
While some players act ancient at 20 with broken down parts, others are ancient and act youthful with sound parts. If the body is without injury at 36 and is still going strong is compared to a body at 28 with many injured parts and shows signs of being a has been, I would have to lean towards the one that seems to be more talented, and stable because it can’t be proven that either one will be a pgotf either way you dicide to go. “A bird in the hand is worth more then 2 in the bush”. Also, giving up that much of our proven cast of role players for a talent that is IMO less then Millers because of age factor isn’t smart in my book.
If Joel and Murphy is a wash and Joel is a proven leader then again why do the trade?
hg
That makes my case one year stronger LOLL.
We have upcoming PG in Armon and Mills. At the rate Dre is going he is good to forty; ample time to train the young.
hg
Miller
Is the Robert Parish of point guards. He’ll be playing forever.
(Robert Parish was the center for the Boston Celtics -mong other teams – who was famous for his on-court longevity. He retired at age 43)
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
Well....
He certainly looks like he’s approaching 43. ;-)
Seriously, I hope he will be too. Let’s cross our fingers that this last microfracture surgery is the final injury and Greg goes on to a fantastic NBA career. I don’t even care if he’s an all-star – just that he becomes a solid contributor to the Blazers.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
People give us so much grief about Bowie
But they totally forget Bowie played for 11 years and averaged about 10 and 7 during that period. Not too shabby, even contending with injuries.
Blazers fan since '91
REST IN PEACE MAURICE LUCAS 1952-2010 R.I.P #20
"We're family because of this stupid, stinkin' team." - Dave
by rise_stand_resist on Feb 22, 2011 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
Clarification provided
For all you young whipper-snappers who have the YouTubes and the FaceSpaces and the interwebs.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
they should see where this team can go for the rest of the season, then rebuild in the off season if necessary
necessary
by blazers#1fan7 on Feb 21, 2011 10:21 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, but...
don’t the Nets need Miller before the end of the season in order to decline the option to get the cap room?
"Coach said to always be careful around Greg, because Greg costs a lot and even the slightest amount of basketball can damage him." -- The Onion
'Dre could be dealt on draft day to any NBA team
if that team wants to waive him before the 6/29 and gain the payflex
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Thanks for clarifying
word.
"Coach said to always be careful around Greg, because Greg costs a lot and even the slightest amount of basketball can damage him." -- The Onion
Harris has two years on his deal after this though.
His youth doesn’t serve our purposes unless he is resigned.
wha??
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Feb 21, 2011 10:31 PM PST up reply actions
but by the time
we can deal ourselves out from under Roy’s contract harris will be Miller “old”
I bet if we make this deal Millers numbers will stay consistent/increase over the next 4 seasons and harris won’t be as productive or decline over 4 seasons. Particularly given injury history.
Our team is stuck with the Roy contract. I do not see how picking up harris now changes our situation any 4 years down the road, we will still be looking at dealing with the Roy situation (with some ability to maybe do somehting about it) with Harris (miller if we keep him) being a nice expiring contract to work with. Where is the upside on this deal?
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Yes on Harris
Big NO on the other two unless some other pieces are coming back this way.
Then try to flip Murphy/picks for a good center.
I love it.
“good center” though? Damn. They don’t make very many of those, I hear.
wha??
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Feb 21, 2011 10:30 PM PST up reply actions
True
But there are teams right now…like Denver, who are going to firesale their bigger contracts. I’d target any team that isn’t in the playoff picture right now. That would be Denver with Nene, Milwaukie with Bogut, maybe Utah with Jefferson, Phoenix, GS, etc.
Milwaukee wont be moving Bogut for anyone short of Aldridge.
I don’t know about Nene, but I think it would be likely that other teams could put together a better deal for him than the Blazers can. As far as Jefferson goes, I thought we already traded away Zack Randolph.
"The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason." - G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1909
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But I think you're on the right track with targeting teams.
All I did was rain on the parade. Sorry about that.
"The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason." - G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1909
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by T Darkstar on Feb 22, 2011 8:12 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Since the salaries don't match for Murphy/Harris and Prz/Miller
What if Oden was the other piece we’d have to give up, but it netted us Lopez? I’d do that deal all day long.
by Eric Loftin on Feb 22, 2011 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
Interesting.
Can the Blazers resign Harris? That’s the question. Andre will be better than Harris in 11/12 and 12/13 IMO.
Of course, we’re assuming the trade is for “this year’s” Harris. If his medical history checks out, it seems to me he simply needs a change of scenery. I mean, come on, he’s lost A LOT of games in New Jersey. If that doesn’t beat a guy down I don’t know what will.
So YES. I say roll the dice and go Harris. I think it HIGHLY unlikely NJ is considering this deal though.
Batum/Prz for Wallace? Um. YES. Come on! Wallace is big time. It’s not like Nic is killing it from outside or drawing fouls or asserting his will on the other team in any way on the offensive end. Nic floats in and out of the offense and does his thing every now and then. Wallace is a beast, and would be perfect in small lineups when LMA is effectively the center. Then you can space the floor with guards. Killer.
So we’re assuming Nic will continue to “develop”, but how much higher can his ceiling really be? He can barely dribble. He often shows the poise of Martell Webster as a passer (zing!). Come on. I guess it’s a toss-up, depending on other players involved. If this were a straight across deal though, it’s a no-brainer, especially if you have Harris, who can actually guard the other team’s fast guy. Whoa! How retro would that look on a Blazer court?
wha??
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Feb 21, 2011 10:28 PM PST reply actions
you just can't wait to get rid of Nic, can you?
Sorry, but NBA scouts do not share your assessment of his ballhandling or passing ability
and Batum wont be dealt to NJ or anywhere else, this week. (Not for just Devin Harris or Gerald Wallace, anyway)
I also find it hard to believe that the Nets won’t find a better offer than Miller’s EC for Harris, not that ‘Dre isn’t a valuable trade piece, but he’s not the kind of PG a rebuilding team would be looking for as a rental (and I’m sure the feeling would be mutual, from Andre’s POV)
What worries me is that Cho will keep playing one-up with Cuban/Dallas and really overpay for Harris—or agree to take on a player/contract that the Blazers really don’t need just to make the deal happen.
I want to give Rich the benefit of the doubt, but this is his first trade deadline in the big chair, and Paul Allen may be in his ear to make a big splash. This kind of additional pressure (from the fans and local media, as well) rarely leads to good decision-making
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I like Nic better than most wings in the league right now.
But we’re talkin Gerald Wallace. That dude is ferocious.
wha??
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Feb 22, 2011 7:53 AM PST up reply actions
He's at least aggressive
but it would make LMA’s job hard as he doesn’t stretch the floor like Nic does. Dude can’t shoot. I would love it if the Blazers could bring him in for an expiring contract without having to ship out Nic. They would be a nice combo at the three position!
LaMarcus Aldridge's "All-Star Snub Tour" comming to a city near you.
2.2 vs 4.2
however Wallace shot 3.6 a game a few years back in his best scoring year. He is a little worse of a shooter then Nicolas, but his all around game is so much more complete.
He is also known as a notorious defender. Which means the refs much like Ron Artest allow him to play a lot more physically then say a 3rd year 20 something year old from France.
Terrence Jones.
Can he guard CP3?
Batum is a more versatile Defender who has yet to reach his potential. We would know EXACTLY what we are getting from Wallace as he’s pretty much at his peak. It’s a tough call, but Batum has the potential to be as good, or better than Wallace eventually. Do we give up on that for an instant return?
LaMarcus Aldridge's "All-Star Snub Tour" comming to a city near you.
Wallace is also injury prone
If he gets one more concussion he’s done….as in early retirement.
by Eric Loftin on Feb 22, 2011 10:25 AM PST up reply actions
Yep
Crash is a fitting nickname. I do love the guy’s game though.
.047 Better is Batum
at the trey for career numbers. Batum is down this year by .029
LaMarcus Aldridge's "All-Star Snub Tour" comming to a city near you.
apparently i can only hold my breath for two minutes...
Sigh...
by eyeotiger on Feb 21, 2011 10:37 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
That's still impressive though
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
'dre wa
"If you've got the hoops version of love handles they'll expose them mercilessly." - Dave
by Oh. Em. Gee. on Feb 21, 2011 10:36 PM PST via mobile reply actions
'dre wants to play til he's 40.
and, as far as i’m concerned, he is our PGOTF.
it’s a proven fact that everyone falls in love with our beautiful city. why wouldn’t he resign? the rose garden on their feet is like a gentle caress of a lover’s busom.
same goes for camby.
sound logic, my friends. sound.
"If you've got the hoops version of love handles they'll expose them mercilessly." - Dave
by Oh. Em. Gee. on Feb 21, 2011 10:41 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I think you mispelled "bosom".
I saw that word in Ecclesiastes once.
wha??
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Feb 21, 2011 10:42 PM PST reply actions
That's it, I'm putting my foot down.
Fact 1. Miller has missed one game, ever: due to a suspension.
Fact 2: Devin Harris has had one 80 game season.
Fact 3: The Blazers have missed several hundred games due to injury — multiple players going back most recently to Batum’s rookie year when he replaced Martell and we drafted, uh Greg Oden, if memory serves.
Fact 4: Our new shooting guard, Matthews, also has a good history of not getting hurt. I like to call him Tony Stark, cuz Dre is Iron Man.
My money is on those guys.
Cho: I’m a fan no matter what, but keep The guys that don’t usually miss lot of games.
Andre
Dante
LaMarcus (~80/year)
Wesley
A few European phenoms are noticeably absent from my list, on account of them being the next level: players who have been injured a few times but are active now.
Last, by this standard, are the players out from multiple injuries who are on rehab. Roy and Camby are in a gray zone until Wednesday at L.A.
by jiminut on Feb 21, 2011 10:42 PM PST via mobile reply actions 4 recs
Matthews doesn't have a history of anything
he’s in his second year. And Andre will start missing games at some point…he is human.
I dispense B.S. and facts. It is up to you to figure out which is which.
We can only go on factual history
Andre hasn’t missed yet. I expect he’ll slow down eventually but not fall off a cliff and miss 21 games like Harris has done several times.
Matthews has seen heavy rotation in two years and never missed. He is outspoken about his pride for longevity, but I’m going off of history which is good.
Cunningham same. I’m no fortune teller, but he only missed a couple and that’s for a broken face, not a typical chronic bb injury.
by jiminut on Feb 22, 2011 7:05 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Andre has a 18.8 PER this season
3rd best of his career. Any talk of him declining rapidly or even declining at all tat this point is pure rubbish.
by zeusmith on Feb 22, 2011 7:06 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
As being a 70 year old ex-week end warrior
It isn’t so much that you slow down as you get in the middle 30’s, but it takes a longer recovery time after hard play. Of course you can keep pushing that wall back by hard training. So, Dre’s biggest challenge is the tough 82 game schedule. That doesn’t relate to missed time as much as fewer minutes, or slower minutes. He may be more acceptable to injury as he gets older so of course that is a concern, but Harris has already had injuries. Therefore, other then unseeable injuries at the rate Dre is playing there is no reason he can not play until he is 40.
hg
yeah taking anyone injury prone
is insane at this point. The Blazers are in an awkward position in that way compared to other teams. You keep Miller! The fans need him, they need consistency out there on the floor, the team needs leadership, and Andre will be thankful not to go to another crap team. He’s proven himself. His improvements here mid season have been over shadowed by Aldridge, but wasn’t that Miller with the massive triple double recently? When’s the last time Harris got a triple double or put up 50-some points on Dallas?
Andre’s one of the top ten inch for inch rebounders of all time (courtesy Free Darko’s latest book).
Something to consider for you Miller-lovers.
The OLDEST guards in the NBA right now are 37.
Andre Miller will be 35 next month. Just sayin..
"You know, when you are in the game, you hear 20,000 people behind you, you don't feel anything."
- Nicolas Batum on playing through his shoulder injury during the 2010 playoffs.
by halo_on on Feb 21, 2011 10:51 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Could have sworn Nash and Kidd were older
Hill as a forward over 35. Kind of impressive.
also everyone references kidd and nash...
who are hall of famers. not likely miller is going to hall of fame.
just saying...
miller is not at the same level as nash and kidd. not really fair to compare.
That's actually not as accurate as you think
Go look up career numbers for assists, games played, where those guys all rank for all time NBA PG’s. Dre is pretty way up there. He just doesn’t get the publicity. He’s the best PG we’ve had in Portland since Porter.
Anyway, it still doesn’t mean we shouldn’t cash him in for a younger version. It’s just a weird place to be stuck right now with him.
the comparison is:
nash and kidd have kept up starter levels of play into their mid to late 30s. Andre could very easily keep his starter level of play going for the next 2-3 years.
Zing
And that’s all that really matters to me because this team might be able to make hay by next year. I’m think more short term with ANdre’s play NOW, while looking for the next PGOTF in due course.
We have been looking for the PGOTF for 5-6 years so far
what makes you think we will find one in the next 2 years. This may be the best and only chance…or not
Harry Bosch: "Everybody counts....or nobody counts."
by 92wastheyear on Feb 22, 2011 7:50 AM PST up reply actions
well for starters...
hes turning 28, instead of turning 35.
last time devin harris was on a pretty good team, he was a pretty good player.
i’d like to think the blazers are much more like the mavericks than we are like the nets.
devin harris will work for us.
the only concern for this deal is whether or not harris will live up to portlands high quality of health standard, and if this stunts LA’s growth.
assuming that LA is a big boy, and that harris isn’t incompetent, i think we’ll be just fune with harris.
Resident Smartass.
and my residency is Blazersedge.com
Miller also has played in 82 games per season
the last 5 years while Devin has only made it to 70 games once (the first of the last 5 years)
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
plus he was an all-star just 2 seasons ago
Harry Bosch: "Everybody counts....or nobody counts."
by 92wastheyear on Feb 22, 2011 8:02 AM PST up reply actions
Harris still has knees
Harry Bosch: "Everybody counts....or nobody counts."
by 92wastheyear on Feb 22, 2011 8:18 AM PST up reply actions
Comment from a Nets fan in 2009
Devin Harris. Since he got sent to the Nets, there have been more articles about his injuries than his on court performance. If this guy can’t stay healthy for any stretch this season, the NETS will be hard pressed to win 20 games.
and Harris’ knees have been dinged a few times too. Thankfully, I don’t think they’ve been cut open yet.
Not according to the injury reports filed with the NBA
2005-07-11 Mavericks Devin Harris sprained right shoulder
2006-01-26 Mavericks Devin Harris sprained right shoulder (DNP)
2007-04-11 Mavericks Devin Harris rest (DNP)
2007-11-03 Mavericks Devin Harris left thigh injury (DTD)
2007-11-09 Mavericks Devin Harris placed on IL for personal reasons
2007-11-13 Mavericks Devin Harris activated from IL
2009-03-16 Nets Devin Harris sprained left shoulder (DTD)
2009-03-18 Nets Devin Harris sprained left shoulder (DNP)
2009-03-20 Nets Devin Harris sprained left shoulder (DNP)
2009-04-15 Nets Devin Harris sore left shoulder (DNP)
2009-10-31 Nets Devin Harris strained right groin (DNP)
2009-11-02 Nets Devin Harris strained right groin (DNP)
2009-11-04 Nets Devin Harris strained right groin (DNP)
2009-11-06 Nets Devin Harris strained right groin (DNP)
2009-11-07 Nets Devin Harris strained right groin (DNP)
2009-11-11 Nets Devin Harris strained right groin (DNP)
2009-11-13 Nets Devin Harris strained right groin (DNP)
2009-11-14 Nets Devin Harris strained right groin (DNP)
2009-11-17 Nets Devin Harris strained right groin (DNP)
2009-11-18 Nets Devin Harris sprained right groin (DNP)
2011-01-08 Nets Devin Harris bruised right quadriceps (DNP)
Interesting...
http://www.nj.com/nets/index.ssf/2010/11/nets_guard_devin_harris_will_h.html
Looks like it was only a strain…but dinged none the less. Not sure if there are more.
Also, that list looks terrible lol. On the bright side, there are at least two seasons missing. Strangely enough he managed to miss 31 games in those two seasons.
The database is clumsy; this is the list for DNP and injured/inactive
1/26/2006 Mavericks sprained right shoulder (DNP)
1/28/2006 Mavericks placed on IL with strained right shoulder
2/10/2006 Mavericks placed on IL with strained quadricep
2/27/2006 Mavericks placed on IL with strained left quadricep
3/12/2006 Mavericks placed on IL with strained left quadricep
4/16/2006 Mavericks placed on IL with sore left leg
11/3/2007 Mavericks left thigh injury (DTD)
1/28/2008 Mavericks placed on IL with bone bruise on left ankle
2/20/2008 Nets placed on IL with sprained left ankle
11/8/2008 Nets placed on IL with sprained left ankle
1/3/2009 Nets placed on IL with sore right hamstring
1/7/2009 Nets placed on IL with sore right hamstring
3/16/2009 Nets sprained left shoulder (DTD)
3/18/2009 Nets sprained left shoulder (DNP)
3/20/2009 Nets sprained left shoulder (DNP)
4/15/2009 Nets sore left shoulder (DNP)
10/31/2009 Nets strained right groin (DNP)
11/2/2009 Nets strained right groin (DNP)
11/4/2009 Nets strained right groin (DNP)
11/6/2009 Nets strained right groin (DNP)
11/7/2009 Nets strained right groin (DNP)
11/11/2009 Nets strained right groin (DNP)
11/13/2009 Nets strained right groin (DNP)
11/14/2009 Nets strained right groin (DNP)
11/17/2009 Nets strained right groin (DNP)
11/18/2009 Nets sprained right groin (DNP)
1/10/2010 Nets placed on IL with right wrist tendinitis
1/23/2010 Nets placed on IL with sprained right wrist
2/9/2010 Nets placed on IL with strained left shoulder
12/1/2010 Nets placed on IL with sprained left knee
1/8/2011 Nets bruised right quadriceps (DNP)
(Colds/flu/rest/personal reasons not included.)
It’s a lot of strains and sprains (basic NBA battle injuries) but no surgeries. He’s no ironman like Dre, but perfect health shouldn’t be the determining factor when it comes to choosing basketball players.
Wiggada Wiggada Zers!
Yeah I looked up what SBN had in addition. See below.
His playing style seems to cause a few sprains, a bit like Camby. But 0 real fractures and 0 ligament tears. The most he missed at a time where 14 games and 10 games with a groin and an ankle tweak. Didn’t look at his college history so far.
Maybe we could just tell him to take it easy?
A solid backup PG would probably make Devin’s injury history a lot less daunting.
His injuries aren’t major but 20 games a season of Mills as starting PG will probably drive me crazy.
I can deal with the 20 games
cuz we’ll be winning 62 others
by hoodieNation on Feb 22, 2011 10:17 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He doesn't miss 20 games per season
He missed 64 to date with injury (1 of those illness). That’s 9.1 per season if he doesn’t miss more this year.
by Norsktroll on Feb 22, 2011 10:23 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He's been a pro 6 years + this season
2 of the first 3 were his best regarding games played. 76 and 80 games.
Since then it’s been 64, 69, 64 and so far 54 games played (this season). I didn’t check playoff games.
9.1 per season counts everything but it’s not exactly reflective of more recent seasons.
My point still stands. If Devin comes to Portland we’re going to need to fix some very serious depth issues to make it work.
We have depth issues anyway. SF, PF, ...
PG can get in line.
by Norsktroll on Feb 22, 2011 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
We should deal with them then
including the backup PG. If we trade off Miller + Rudy or whatever for Harris then we’re playing with 5 guys instead of 6.
If Harris goes down then Patty is a starter and we’re playing 4 on 5 without someone to keep the offense organized.
If Cho finds a way to do it all before the deadline (including Harris) then it’s probably fine. When Harris goes down we’ll have someone solid to back him up.
"Devin, don't scrap."
(Not seeing it happen. If anything, an injury-inducing playing style is attractive to the front office.)
Wiggada Wiggada Zers!
All I know is over the last 5 seasons
Harris has only played more than 70 games once and that was 5 seasons ago…
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Avery Johnson has given up on him
..Now he is bit of a quirky coach, but you would think that holding on to the theory of “floor general” point guard (something of proven value ) that leaning on Harris to fill this role would be a reach….I think we have this dilemma when we go after a point guard. Very few reachable people can fill this role and still be classified as a difference maker. Trading for youth ? Well we were young once….and now we have a good mix of veterans and youth. We should not trade away our teachers and mentors.
Up and running.........and almost defending.
What makes people think that Dre would stay here after his contract expires anyway?
Does he strike you as a loyal PDX lover? Suppose we decide to ride Dre out…pick up the option ….and then what? After next year we are right back looking for a starting caliber point ….with no leverage….and i don’t think Patty and Armon are it.
Harry Bosch: "Everybody counts....or nobody counts."
by 92wastheyear on Feb 22, 2011 8:44 AM PST up reply actions
Does Harris strike you as a PDX player?
I’d bet we get more from Dre in the long run
by Chesterstinkpickle on Feb 22, 2011 8:45 AM PST up reply actions
I have no idea
but I am pretty sure Dre has no love for PDX
Harry Bosch: "Everybody counts....or nobody counts."
by 92wastheyear on Feb 22, 2011 8:50 AM PST up reply actions
Miller
loves the game of basketball..it doesn’t matter where he plays. He is only controversial (to some) because he doesn’t socialize and because he stood his ground when they immediately tried to reinvent him when he first came to Portland.
He may be indifferent, (like a mule) but he certainly knows how to conduct himself as player who can apply his skills in a team atmosphere. (he makes his teammates better)
Up and running.........and almost defending.
None of that stuff tells us if he would re-sign with PDX
Harry Bosch: "Everybody counts....or nobody counts."
by 92wastheyear on Feb 22, 2011 9:17 AM PST up reply actions
so what are you saying?
Miller is unique. Would Roy had resigned if they hadn’t given him the max contract?
(remember he felt they owed him the max)
If Portland wants Miller there is no reason to believe he wouldn’t resign. So your guess is just as good as another…..
Up and running.........and almost defending.
The argument that a lot of folks are making is that:
we should stand pat with Dre cause he is better…and that he could play till he is 40. My point is that what makes anyone think that Dre has any affection for PDX or that he would re-sign with us. Why bring up Roy? What has that got to do with anything?
Harry Bosch: "Everybody counts....or nobody counts."
by 92wastheyear on Feb 22, 2011 9:35 AM PST up reply actions
You make a good point
Dre certainly may want to leave. I’d still take that chance over possibly losing Harris to injury every year.
Especially after the last two!!
by Chesterstinkpickle on Feb 22, 2011 9:37 AM PST up reply actions
There are no guarantees
that anyone will resign. Roy was just one example (close to home) that was well documented in the news.
Up and running.........and almost defending.
thinking about Roy contract negotiations make me miss KP.
KP did not want to give him the max, and was almost burned at stake for it. lol. But man was he right.
by hoodieNation on Feb 22, 2011 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
Hmm. I thought it was Pritchard who was advocating him getting the max, but the front office balking.
I don’t remember. Maybe someone else will have a link to a story or something.
"The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason." - G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1909
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could be, i'm working off my faulty memory.
by hoodieNation on Feb 22, 2011 10:25 AM PST up reply actions
That makes two of us.
My memory is like an iron sieve. Can’t hold water, and rusts out if you try to.
"The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason." - G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1909
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That's my memory too
At least that’s what the rumors were — I don’t remember if it ever made into print.
Wiggada Wiggada Zers!
I've heard the rumors both ways
so who knows
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
yeah I remember it as KP
was advocating for Roy in the Press of all things and that is why Larry Miller took over
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Well, he has plenty
of love for LaMarcus and that has to account for something. Dre is a facilitator and would love to lob it to LMA all day. Not too many teams have a player like LaMarcus and Dre knows that. He would stay in PDX if given the choice. I’m confident of that.
LaMarcus Aldridge's "All-Star Snub Tour" comming to a city near you.
more importantly
Does an injury prone harris even have as long a shelf life as Miller?
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
There's a whole bunch of quality FA's coming in 12-13'
And the emphasis is on winning now, because were fairly close with some luck. Even if we get to the Western Conference final with dre and no further, we would take a necessary step in building the culture of winning.
You need to take these steps before you can advance to better things, Devin Harris is not the guy either way, and is only signed for two more years.
Totally agree
If we make this trade now, with the upcoming schedule, we can kiss the playoffs goodbye!
by Chesterstinkpickle on Feb 22, 2011 8:55 AM PST up reply actions
What makes you think this will happen?
Even if we get to the Western Conference final with dre
It never has before
Harry Bosch: "Everybody counts....or nobody counts."
by 92wastheyear on Feb 22, 2011 8:55 AM PST up reply actions
After which we can re-sign him
And btw, Harris has played in more playoff games than Dre. Including finals.
And what makes you think we can sign free agents
we are over the cap….and the cap is likely to harder …not softer in the next CBA
Harry Bosch: "Everybody counts....or nobody counts."
by 92wastheyear on Feb 22, 2011 8:56 AM PST up reply actions
those guys can shoot
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
what about brooks and battier...
pryz and draft pick for two guys walking away this summer in brooks and battier. then you keep miller as your starting pg.
really?
this is never going to happen. period.
"Have no fear of perfection--you'll never reach it."
---Salvador Dali
by Peter Blundell on Feb 21, 2011 11:01 PM PST up reply actions
houston tried to trade battier to boston but it fell through...
and brooks does not look like he will re-sign with the rockets.
however
we couldnt afford this.
"Have no fear of perfection--you'll never reach it."
---Salvador Dali
by Peter Blundell on Feb 21, 2011 11:05 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure the Kings would give us a draft pick to take Landry - but you are on the right track
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Feb 22, 2011 12:41 AM PST up reply actions
Go Hard!
I say make a trade… but just dre’ and babbit/williams/johnson for harris! dre’ is undoubtedly a great point guard… but he’s getting old. If harris comes here and likes it (how many players have come to portland and hated it?) then he’ll resign for sure. that way we have a good young pg aswell as our new phenom L.A.
"Have no fear of perfection--you'll never reach it."
---Salvador Dali
by Peter Blundell on Feb 21, 2011 10:59 PM PST reply actions
Can Harris play as many minute a game or as many games a year as Dre?
Actually all you can go on is what is right now, all the tomorrows is speculation.
The only advantage if any that I see in getting Harris would be the fit with BRoy, but then I don’t know if BRoy fit with Dre is broken or just media hype; BRoy’s playing future is questionable, Harris playing future is questionable because of injury to both,
With all of the above, I would have to stick with Dre, and I am on record of not being a Dre lover.
hg
Harris is not a great fit with Roy
if we get him it’s because we think he can be a major part of our young core moving forward. His stock is down right now but he’s shown all-star level capability. Dre is crafty as all get out but he will lose a step someday, and it may be a steep slope when he does.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Dave - nice writing
I like the Hemingway-ness of it. Quick points and sentences. Given the topic is seemed particularly effective, i.e. here today, gone tomorrow (trade thoughts or players).
Torn between Andre v Harris. Love Andre and if Greg could get back ’dre would make him a monster.
Will be interesting to see what happens when Brandon gets back. I bet Blazers management had more time to see that develop (Miller-Roy).
put a body on 'em
if warriors offered curry for oden...
would you pull the trigger?
without hesitation
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
No
Especially not if they want somebody like Wes.
Blazers fan since '91
REST IN PEACE MAURICE LUCAS 1952-2010 R.I.P #20
"We're family because of this stupid, stinkin' team." - Dave
by rise_stand_resist on Feb 22, 2011 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
No way in...
heck.
Curry is a no-defense undersized 2. Well, I guess he’s a “scoring” one. I’m not ready to give up on Greg yet. I like Curry a lot and was pulling for the Blazers to get him instead of Bayless…but I would give GO for him.
LaMarcus Aldridge's "All-Star Snub Tour" comming to a city near you.
"no defense"
I don’t agree with that. He is also a really good passer at such a young age so I don’t know why you call him a 2.
Terrence Jones.
I'm not denying he's a really good passer
I would rather have him in a Blazer uni than Harris. His passing skills are better than Harris’ imho. However, he plays for GSW – NOBODY on that team plays D…it’s their MO.
Bring him to PTown and have Nate yell in his ear a bit and maybe he starts hounding other PG’s, He has the skill set, but I haven’t seen much but olay’s and occasional fouls to stop a layup from him.
I….just….can’t….give….up…..on….GO….
LaMarcus Aldridge's "All-Star Snub Tour" comming to a city near you.
so is that a yes or no?
“no way in heck”
“but I would give GO for him.”
by hoodieNation on Feb 22, 2011 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
"not"
Correction: I would NOT give GO for him.
LaMarcus Aldridge's "All-Star Snub Tour" comming to a city near you.
and yes, a hundred times over.
Curry is a ridiculously skilled player and would be the PGOTF for us. Oden has proven nothing, and there is no reason to think he’ll be able to remain healthy.
by hoodieNation on Feb 22, 2011 10:06 AM PST up reply actions
Would definitely consider it
Curry has some serious upside. That’s a PGOTF
I hate to disagree with Dave, but I think the reason Nate uses SF's for stretching the floor
is because that’s what the ones he’s had have been ok/good at. Does anyone have an example where this hasn’t been the case? I mean: Jones, Outlaw, Webster, Ime. Nic was used this way the past two seasons, but this season we’ve seen him doing a lot more cutting, shooting off screens, setting up plays on occasion, etc as he expands his repertoire.
Nate has typically shown an ability to get the most out of the talent at his disposal. If we netted Crash in a trade, I would think that Nate would find a way to maximize his advantages on the break.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
by HailOden! on Feb 21, 2011 11:07 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I agree
Nate’s not an idiot. He has shown flexibility this season. I’d love to land Wallace. Harris, not so much.
by byronirvin on Feb 21, 2011 11:48 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think until Roy comes back and shows what he can and can't do,
Not a snowball’s chance on the surface of the sun.
"The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason." - G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1909
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so you're sayin' there's a chance
BTW, how big is that snowball on the surface of the sun? If it’s a big enough icey the sun may be in trouble…
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Probably not
Given his unsure status health wise and his BYC status contract wise…
by Storyteller on Feb 21, 2011 11:14 PM PST up reply actions
hate to root for the amnesty clause, but
the next decision Portland makes re: Brandon’s future may comes after the lockout, if the new CBA allow for one contract to be removed from the payroll, without a penalty
the Derek Anderson scenario
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
instead of rooting for the amnesty clause
we should root for the sanity clause
(oh, I forgot, there ain’t no such thing as sanity clause when it comes to the NBA)
Win the day!
Hmm.
I remember where I was mentally with Andre Miller a year and a half ago when we signed him. I was not impressed. Not that Miller was bad, but his weaknesses were glaring. But I was willing to give it a go. And if worse came to worst, we could trade him for value down the road.
My attitude has changed considerably with Miller. Especially this season with LaMarcus Aldridge. Miller has been key in getting Aldridge the confidence he needed to live up to his potential after all these years. Sure Miller has some miles on him, but he know what he’s doing out there. And he does his job well.
Today, I am in the same boat with Devin Harris as I was a year and a half ago with Miller. I’m not necessarily impressed with Harris. He’s not bad. But there are some glaring weaknesses. No three point shot. Though we’ve dealt with that before. Tends to get injured here and there. Nothing major, but enough to miss a noticeable number of games. Not terribly focused. Though he does play for the Nets.
I will say this. Harris and Miller are close as far as talent goes. Miller has the advantage with familiarity. Harris has the advantage with age. But two years is an eternity in today’s NBA. That can work for or against Miller. That can work for or against Harris. I’d be okay if the trade happened, I’d be okay if it didn’t. Miller will once again be a valuable trading piece come draft time. But Harris may be a more valuable piece overall.
"The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason." - G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1909
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by T Darkstar on Feb 21, 2011 11:08 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
It's a roll of the dice, at best
if it was a straight-up Harris-Miller deal, that’s one thing
but it’s pretty clear that NJ will ask for more than Andre. How much more? That changes the dynamic
Another risk is this: consider the gains that the team has made in the last month. If management makes a trade for the future (keep in mind, this is not Denver, there is no compelling reason to deal ‘Dre, right now) then Cho/Allen will in effect be telling Nate and the players " we appreciate all the hard work, we still believe in you guys, but we’re going in a different direction and if you keep working hard—who knows? We may find a new place for you to play in a few months, too"
It wasn’t easy for the team to deal with the Blake/Outlaw trade last year, either. But fortunately Camby came in and the team played well and the benefits were obvious. The team needed a center desperately and Marcus was a perfect fit
Well this year the team doesn’t need a new starting PG, but if they decide to switch quarterbacks at halftime, the second half may not go as well as the last couple of months. Some fans may be willing to live with that “adjustment period” now in hopes of a brighter future, but they’re not the ones who have played hard to reach 32-24, with hopes of more improvement, like Nate and the players.
So well see if Cho casts the die this week, and (if he does) whether he rolls a 7 or we see snake eyes
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I agree with the points you make.
But to play devil’s advocate, wouldn’t this be the best time to make a trade? We’re already going to be making adjustments. Roy is coming back after 30 games. Camby is coming back after a month out. There’s already going to be a whole host of adjustments. There’s already going to be some time that we’re trying to find our rhythm all over again. If Miller for Harris is the right move (and again, I’m on the fence on this one), I’d rather have the confusion happen all at once.
"The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason." - G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1909
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there's never a "right time" as far as the players/coach are concerned
there’s only a question of how much of a disruption it would be…the team has made due without ROy and Camby and still kept winning. Getting by without Andre would be tough, integrating Harris would be tough. The schedule in March will def be tough
The more stress points, the greater chance for collapse…but I’m sure Cho has factored all of this in…I just wonder how much Nate is behind this hypothetical deal, and how much his opinion matters at this point in time
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Yup, that pretty much sums it up
Dang, I end up reccing you a lot. It’s so cool that I don’t have to go through the hard work of coming up with sentences and paragraphs.
Wiggada Wiggada Zers!
stand pat
I agree with some of the posts above: this deal is not worth the loss in chemistry. Plus I would argue that a consistent player in Miller is way more valuable to a team in our position than a younger guy like Harris. Add to that Miller is only 5 seasons older than Harris, and he knows how to take care of his body in such a way that he can play longer than Harris (who’s already missed a ton of games)….
bottom line – none of this makes sense to me.
by LA-12 on Feb 21, 2011 11:08 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Loss of chemistry? Too bad Roy disliked playing with Andre
So much that he had to apologize for calling him out
Rich Cho has the reputation of very, very smart man.
For me it is strange that exactly he not value,not appreciate
the exceptional BBIQ of Miller!Each year in the league enter young,athletic players with great physical skills.But smart players like Dre are extremely rare.
I’m most indignant at this attitude towards Andre – it is just not fair!After all he did for this team!
For me, the day when Miller goes will be the Day,when is not great to be a blazer!
Have you talked to Cho?
Last I checked he wasn’t commenting. We have no idea what he values as there hasn’t been a trade yet. To me the GM is supposed to see whats out there at the deadline, and that’s what Cho has been doing. Anything else is pure speculation.
If Cho trades Oden it will likely be the biggest GM/Owner mistake since the Blazers traded Moses Malone.
If Cho does that deal, and Oden comes back and plays well, and I believe he will, Cho’s career would (or should) be over.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Feb 21, 2011 11:09 PM PST reply actions
I'm not saying All-star or anything
but are you telling me if you went up to the Cavs and asked for Ramon Sessions(who still has a lot of potential, he reminds me a lot of Andre Miller to be honest) they wouldn’t bite?
Perhaps Washington, who is currently overstocked on PF’s. Kevin Seraphin is young extremely athletic & a banger- certainly an upgrade over Cunningham. Hinrich would be an ideal veteran PG if Miller was moved.
Trade for Thaddeus Young !
LMA at Center is a legit option
but LMA at PF with a good center is probably a better option. Small ball has worked, though – and a good young PF to pair with LMA the C should be considered.
Not that I like the idea of trading Oden – I don’t – but the Blazers do play small ball remarkably well.
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Feb 22, 2011 12:45 AM PST up reply actions
We are not going to call him center
lets just say we have two power forwards starting mmk.
Terrence Jones.
Greg is highly likely to be an UFA within the next 18 months.
If the Blazers are unwilling to outbid other teams for his services (or lack thereof) and a decent offer is made. Sure, it could make sense to move Oden. It all depends on how much PA wants to keep paying Greg and how big a risk the team is willing to take. Somebody is going to take a risk on Oden. If it isn’t going to be us, better to get something for him.
by 52therim on Feb 22, 2011 6:49 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
keep Greg
the upside is still too great.
It would hurt me more if Oden prospered on another team than if he failed to live up to expectations on our team.
put a body on 'em
In order to make this Miller+Przybilla for Harris+Murphy rumor work
Portland would have to add a player or players whose combined outgoing salary is at least $2.01 million and whose combined incoming salary is no more than $11.29 million. Neither Roy nor Aldridge nor Camby fit that bill. Feel free to speculate on the ‘filler’….
I won’t speculate because I disagree with Dave that this is the kind of trade that needs to be made this week. I’m all for putting Joel on the block and getting back the best package for him, seeing as how this week is the last chance that the franchise has to deal him. But unless the Blazers can get something better than this rumor by including Miller, I’m not on board. I’m not a Harris fan and Murphy would not appear to be in the long term plans of the Blazers.
I have no doubt that GS might have interest in Oden. I also have serious doubts that POR trades him this week…..
by Storyteller on Feb 21, 2011 11:20 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I agree 100%, and I am puzzled why the Nets would want to do this. Cap room? Why? Between Carmelo being off the table and the uncertainties surrounding the new CBA, I see zero benefit for NJ in making this deal right now.
"Ted Thompson's running Brett Favre out of Green Bay was the biggest mistake by a GM in the history of the league."
-Skip Bayless, November 2008
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 22, 2011 12:29 AM PST up reply actions
this^
not surprised that we’re thinking along the same lines
Since Portland’s playing well they shouldn’t be thinking about disrupting their roster/chemistry UNLESS there’s a screaming deal that’s offered. That difference-making deal is not Devin Harris: it wasn’t two months ago, a month ago, and it doesn’t look any better with 3 days to go before the deadline
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Yeah, my advice would be to trade Andre Miller in June.
Come June, I suggest packaging Miller, Nic Batum, and salary filler (e.g., Luke Babbitt) for Andre Iguodala.
Until then, look to dump Marcus Camby for an expiring contract and, perhaps, move Joel Przybilla for some sort of value or future asset.
"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."
Maybe there’s too much fan in me, but I’d be okay with trading Joel (tears) for a draft pick and doing nothing else. Our problem is our depth and not our starters. When we get Brandon, Camby, and hopefully Greg and Pendergraph things will be looking up (even though B-Roy won’t be what he was).
When Brandon, Camby and Greg
are all healthy and can play 82 games together, I know that NBA 2k12 will be out. Because that’s the only way you can keep them on the court together.
Are we trying to shoot fish in a barrel?
In a lot of way we don’t know what we have until Greg does or doesn’t get back. Unfortunately this leaves us in limbo and as fans WE DON’T DO WELL WITH THAT!
However, put the long-distance goggles on (the three finger ones might work unless you are on one of the two-for-three off-nights for Rudy or Wes). What we need to know is: A) Will Greg Oden be a good to dominant player and, B) will Brandon Roy return to a form that is productive for this team?
How does that fit into today’s trade scenarios?
We won’t know if Greg can get back to form until next year at soonest. With Brandon we may get a glimpse of potential or lack thereof this year.
What we don’t need to do is rush into much without knowing what is going on, unless we are trading these guys on guesses about their future. Andre Miller’s option seems like a great opportunity to keep him and some continuity and see what develops next season, then either trade for now (meaning next season) or blow up the team for the future depending on how these variables work out.
Obviously this doesn’t provide much instantaneous gratification. But making big moves now seems like trying to shoot fish in a barrel. I know this goes against fan impatience but not leveraging too much of the core right now seem prudent to me (caveat: Rich Cho knows more about these guys than me).
PS – I am fine with side bets leveraging Joel or other non-core or non-future pieces (hurts me to say that about Joel).
put a body on 'em
With Joel it depends on what you see and what Joel is willing to do.
Joel is not close to 100% but at the time he is better then the third string option in Marks, plus he has leadership and respect of the younger players. Joel has been considering retiring, But, if you were to give him a new contract at the end of the year that matches his output and he excepts it—opposed to retirement then keeping him would be a good thing. If Joel wants to go out and try his worth on the market then trading him now would be a good thing. Or trading him for assets and then resigning him in place of Marks which is much older would be a good thing. I am sure there is many options with Joel that I don’t see and Cho does, but Joel still has value to our team if he gets to 100% by next fall as a back-up for Camby—-Greg or LMA.
hg
Go big or go home
there’s a lot of upside to this Harris deal, more upside than downside if you ask me
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
on second thought
Go big or go home does not accurately describe my philosophy, but I do support trading for devin harris
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 21, 2011 11:51 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I like what's here at home
and regardless, we haven’t seen or heard about any “big” news, to this point
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
It's not my decision to make
but we sit here and analyze this trade based on the here and now. I understand that’s all we have, but to see the potential value of this trade you have to project it into the future. We are not a contending team right now, that is a fact. There is a 28 year old all-star capable PG who’s stock is down that our FO has liked for a long time. The opportunity to get him may be restricted to this trade deadline. If we buy low on him, and he is for us not what he has been lately, but what we know (I know) he is capable of, it’s an incredible deal for Portland that raises our longterm outlook significantly. He won’t cost much more than Dre and he can be our PG for the next 5-7 years if we want.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Hrmmmmmmmmmm
Miller….tough..
Wallace is a beast.
OSU '06
Trade for Gerald Wallace!!
by TyboOSU on Feb 22, 2011 12:12 AM PST via mobile reply actions
not
Jeff Pendergraph:
FGM - 3
FGA - 111
Min - 30
Reb - 10
by Tofu Anonymous on Feb 22, 2011 12:27 AM PST reply actions
Do the Harris trade, don't do the Oden trade, do the Wallace trade if it doesn't cost Batum and consider it if it gets us Wallace and Augustin
by Norsktroll on Feb 22, 2011 12:28 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Who else do you send to NJ to match salaries?
by Storyteller on Feb 22, 2011 12:32 AM PST up reply actions
They are easy trade partners. Allegedly Blazers and Nets have discussed at least 5 working scenarios.
We could take back Travis, Petro, Vujacic, Morrow, … All not uninteresting players. Both teams have filler too.
Alternatively I would explore a Felton deal with the Nuggets for Joel, Armon/Patty and a first round pick. If they want Miller, deals are dead.
Definitely some interesting scenarios mixed in there.
I’m still at a point where I don’t expect a major trade. I’m not convinced it will come together.
I think Dallas will go with one of the Charlotte players
Though I wouldn’t be opposed to having Devin back, but not sure he would be happy.
He was unhappy with his coach telling him he counted on him, and then immediately trade ideas involving him popped up
I’m sure Dirk still likes him. Would be funny if that’s how it turns out. NJ would have achieved very little from “renting” him.
Hehe, none of those players would still be in Jersey
Devin Harris, DeSagana Diop, Trenton Hassell, Maurice Ager, Keith Van Horn, 2008 first round pick (lottery protected) (#21-Ryan Anderson), 2010 first round pick (#27-Jordan Crawford), $3M cash considerations
Over two corners Troy Murphy is the other piece they still have
Anderson → Lee in Vince Carter deal → Murphy
I'm actually not sure why they want to dump him.
I don’t see their end game right now, unless they think he’s unhappy and unlikely to produce. A good young PG doesn’t grow on trees in the NBA. Even as a salary dump… say they dump his salary. Who are they going to grab? He’d be just as (if not more) valuable as a trading piece at the deadline next season.
I posted a few days ago how the NY teams and media are good at postponing their hopes into the future
“But surely next year a superstar will come to our city”
In the case of the Knicks, it didn’t work out perfectly now with LeBron but still okay with Amare and Melo.
Perhaps their hopes will improve when they're in Brooklyn
Right now, the odds of getting a core like CP or DW (whichever doesn’t go to the Knicks) plus Howard must be amazingly low. Even if the Knicks aren’t willing or able to get another player, there’s a big city on another coast willing to fight for big free agents…
Cuban still likes him
and what Mark wants he usually gets, even more so than Paul Allen
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
you mean years
fire barrett
hire jerry sloan
by thomasikehara on Feb 22, 2011 4:09 AM PST up reply actions
I could also see the Blazers recruit a third team to get it done similar to the role the Wolves played now.
E.g. Rip Hamilton to the Nets for a first and a second round pick from each team. He was to be included in the first discussions of the Melo deal. Or Sacramento. Lots of possibilities.
Some late evening updates from the Denver camp, via Stein
A few details: Denver wants to re-sign Nene and will look at draft trades otherwise. Status of Danilo and Felton are still in the air.
Intriguing
Harris sounds interesting, but I hate to say I really don’t know enough about him.
Andre is such a warrior and makes everyone around him so much better. Would hate to see him go. Probably a good trade but tough call.
Actually, Joel is awesome too. Don’t want him to go either. I guess that’s what we get now: we have good character guys who are also great players—hate to see them go.
by BBlazer on Feb 22, 2011 12:51 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Joel is awesome, but the player we have now is not Joel. It's Joel with broken knees. He can't move out there.
We need to cash in on him. He’ll have a great life once he retires. These moves are for the future of the team. Joel will understand.
by BRoyInThe4th on Feb 22, 2011 1:50 AM PST up reply actions
No go on any of these trades
Don’t make a move just to make a move. No significant improvement here, just a player shuffle. Why do it when we have good chemistry now.
to be fair we don't know that there wouldn't be significant improvement
it’s just speculation. I don’t consider the Harris deal a move for the sake of making a move, but it certainly debatable whether it’s worth the risk for us.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
My god I'm reading all these sentimental comments from fans not wanting Cho to trade Andre. Sorry but Devin Harris
is a better player. He is a better scorer and gets more assists with worse players. He also has many more years left, plenty of time to learn how to throw Aldridge spin lobs. Talk about his 30% three point shooting all you want, it’s still 20% more than Andre Miller.
If we don’t make this trade, we would be fools. I wish we could trade Babbitt, keep Dre, and get Harris. Believe, I wish we could do that. We can’t do that though, you have to give up a good player to get one, you can’t get something for nothing! It doesn’t work that way.
Cho needs to do this deal, ignore the fans this one time. I will miss Andre, but this deal needs to happen.
by BRoyInThe4th on Feb 22, 2011 1:48 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
you have to give up a good player to get one, you can’t get something for nothing! It doesn’t work that way.
preach.
Being a Blazer fan is not exactly healthy.
agree
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I've never been attached to Andre Miller
And this is a pretty lateral move. Devin Harris is NOT an upgrade. Devin Harris is also NOT young. I have no idea how but he’s been locked in a ‘forever young’ paradox. He’s 28 in a few days.
Miller certainly needs to be traded while someone still wants him, and so far Harris seems to be the best we can get, but I don’t like how people talk like Harris would be a long term solution at PG. He’s not. Granted that’s 7 years younger than Miller, but he’s a downgrade.
With Miller we have until this week to trade him for a more long term solution. All Harris does is give us a similar trade value player who we have another 2 years before we have to trade him.
Harris isn't going to get dramatically better in those 7 years
If that’s what you’re suggesting. It’s all downhill from where he currently is.
And his contract is only for 2 more years.
Harris was an all-star
he scores and assists at a higher rate than Dre. Dre is great right now, but someday he is going to lose a step and he has no shot to fall back on like Kidd has. If Cho does this move it’s because he thinks there is potential for it to improve our team, not because it’s a lateral move to get a younger, more injury prone player.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Huh??
Dre has never been fast, he’s just smart like Stockton.
Kidd has never been a good shooter.
I bet Dre has more basketball left than Harris.
by Chesterstinkpickle on Feb 22, 2011 9:08 AM PST up reply actions
He shots 40% all time
from the field!!!
by Chesterstinkpickle on Feb 22, 2011 9:12 AM PST up reply actions
No, not just threes
He shoots 40% from the field, meaning all shots. Not exactly torching the nets
by Chesterstinkpickle on Feb 22, 2011 9:14 AM PST up reply actions
you lost me at Kidd has never been a good shooter
he has clearly transitioned his game to be a better shooter as he has gotten older. And no, Dre has never been fast, but that doesn’t mean he’ll always have his current level of speed and quickness.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 22, 2011 10:03 AM PST up reply actions
we are talking about players changing their games as they age
his 3 pt % has climbed well over 40%!!!! 40%!!!!!! Go look at basketball reference and tell me he’s a bad shooter. Norsk said he’s 3rd all time in 3 pointers made behind Ray Ray and Reggie.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 22, 2011 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
gerald wallaace is one of 3 players ever to have a season averaging 2 blocks and 2 steals a game (others being david robinson and the dream)
and he was on the 1st team all defense last year, and last year he shot 37% from down town, that is better than rudy
fire barrett
hire jerry sloan
nate always preaches defense...
How good of a defensive lineup could we have with devin harris, Wesley Matthews, Crash, LMA, and Camby(i know he might possibly be involved in a trade)? I think its ludicrous that anyone would think twice about trading Batum for Gerald Wallace. The guy is a beast with a motor, who plays defense, plays physically, and can hit the three if needed….. and he comes to play more than once every 4 or 5 games. I like frenchy, seems like a cool kid, just don’t see the FIRE in him. You’ve got to sell high… its time. There was a couple articles written lately mentioning how contagious Wesleys energy and hard nosed approach are to the team- I think Gerald Wallace would do the same thing. Devin Harris will wake up once he realizes he’s not in mamby pamby land anymore.
by smoothbeans on Feb 22, 2011 4:52 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Harris is a defennsive downgrade to Miller
The defense gets worse or best case scenario even.
I disagree heavily with that assessment
Harris is a very capable defender. And was a great one in Dallas.
I disagree heavily with your assessment
Of disagreeing heavily.
Then we shall agree to disagree
I think Harris is an upgrade over Miller in almost any aspect. And a great guy off the court, so I don’t worry about team chemistry at all.
Is that why Avery Johnson wants him out
And NJ is willing to pitch him for a sack of basketballs? Is Harris 42.5% percentage or 18.0 PER an Updgrade to Miller? How about that 1.0 DWS on the defensive side. Such an obvious upgrade! Sign me up!
Yes great info
Avery thought Harris was an important part of the team before his play dictated otherwise. In the meantime, New Jersey desperately requires new practice basketballs so the trade is a perfect fit.
im gonna laugh at all the andre supports
when in 24 hours our starting pg will be devin harris
Resident Smartass.
and my residency is Blazersedge.com
I'm going to laugh
when Harris goes down for 15+ more games this year…to make his standard 15 – 20 games a season lost to injury quota.
Avery thought Harris was an important part of the team before his play dictated otherwise.
Avery TWICE thought Harris was an important part of the team before his play dictated otherwise.
“It happens the first time, shame on you, it happens the second time, shame on me”. Will the Blazers attempt for the hat trick?
I'm not a huge Devin Harris fan, but do agree that Avery Johnson is a moron.
"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."
Does anyone see the sad irony here
Of flipping Dre for youth despite all the recent chemistry and cohesion, when he has been so outspoken on his belief that the league is biased towards rewarding younger players rather than players who have “paid their dues”?
by kbyes on Feb 22, 2011 5:33 AM PST via mobile reply actions
When surrounded by decent players Harris produced well. When ensconced in a terrible system with abysmal players on a team destined to lose 90% of its games Harris looks mediocre or worse.
How come playing for bad teams has never hindered Andre’s performance?
No one is a professional like Andre is a professional
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Harris is not the answer..
Harris was a much better defender than Andre. He still can be a better defender than Andre. However, Harris has stopped playing defense.. Harris is slowing down. He plays soft D, saving his strength for O. Even his O stats are declining rapidly.
This begs the question. Is Harris’s head in the game? He has problems with his coach. How will Nate deal with a PG that plays D way below his skill level?
Miller brings his best game every night, no matter which team or coach he plays for, Harris does not.
Miller is injury free, Harris is not.
Despite the age difference, both Miller and Harris are on the downhill side of their stats chart. However, Harris is showing a much faster decline rate, and at a much younger age, than Miller is. Harris is not the answer..
Trading Andre would blow the team chemistry up. Is Cho is starting over? If so, I would rather trade Andre for a good draft pick than for Harris.
To the Blazers GM... (sorry, i lost his phone # when i switched smart phones)
>
Dear Mr. Cho,
If you acquire Harris, do you have an answer as to who will step in at starting PG when Harris goes down? Surely Harris won’t be as durable as the ‘aging’ Andre Miller.
Or is the move essentially saying “We’re giving up on this season (because we had no chance anyway) to build for the future”. If so, that’s fine. Just let us know so some of us can move onto other forms of entertainment for the time being. =)
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
I can do one better
Dear Mr. Cho,
Please attempt to trade for the actual deficiencies on the roster instead of trading our second most valuable player for the unknown. A Western Conference championship run could be in store for 11-12’ if you get the right interior rebounder and defender,
Thanks again Tricky Dick.
Regards,
Portland fans everywhere
Dear Mr. Cho
our team is not a contender. If you feel that Devin Harris can be a piece of our young and talented roster moving forward, I trust your judgment.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
The onyl way we are in store for a Western Conf Championship run next year
Is if Oden comes back fully healthy, stays fully healthy, and perfoms at his best.
If that happens, any interior rebounder we got this year will be redundant. And meanwhile, if that happened, sad that our championship window then closes after one more year, when Andre then retires.
Harris had shoulder strains and groin strains and a quadriceps strain
He’s not motivated anymore in NJ. But he has no lingering major knee or ankle issues or fractures or other ligament damage.
Good info.
One’s body has to be very anatomically correct/aligned to go major injury-free in Portland. LOL.
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
Maybe Harris can learn the art of Feng Shui in Portland
And align all his furniture facing West to avoid tweaking that hammy
why worry about bringing an injury prone player to the Blazers?
our training and medical staff has the most experience in NBA at rehabbing injured players!
Win the day!
Harris, Love
There is probably a good counterargument to this but:
If Kevin Love can play at an all star level on one of the worst teams in the NBA, how legitimate an excuse is it to blame Devin Harris’ crappy season on the fact that he plays on a crappy team?
True
The Wolves suck, but Love is awesome. (Even though he gets 20 rebounds a night because the Wolves can’t hit the broad side of a barn from three)
The Nets suck, but Harris has also been playing badly. If he quits in NJ just because theyre struggling, that tells me he is not a great team player. Dre plays well regardless of whether the Blazers are doing badly or not. He doesn’t quit when they’re not winning.
Blazers fan since '91
REST IN PEACE MAURICE LUCAS 1952-2010 R.I.P #20
"We're family because of this stupid, stinkin' team." - Dave
by rise_stand_resist on Feb 22, 2011 9:40 AM PST up reply actions
“Does anyone see the sad irony here Of flipping Dre for youth despite all the recent chemistry and cohesion, when he has been so outspoken on his belief that the league is biased towards rewarding younger players rather than players who have "paid their dues"?”
Interesting point but not compelling. What really irked Miller was treating rookies like 10 year veterans. I suspect Miller would say that Devin Harris has been in the league long enough to deserve a goodly amount of respect as a veteran player.
I don’t mean to imply I support a trade though. I want Miller to stay in Portland. Blazers have something amazing going right now and tampering with it Mr. Cho would be playing with fire.
Sure Mr. Cho you’d get some flak from paparazzi like Clownzano, but the fans will have your backside.
Drama queen would love this deal for the material it provides in his work; he’ll praise it now and then use it a couple years later as an example of the idiocy of Blazer management.
A NJ source claims Blazers have offered Miller, Joel and Oden for Harris, Murphy, Humphries, first round pick
Don’t shoot the messenger ;-)
Like this better than Harris/Murphy speculation from yesterday...
I about gave up when I heard Quick had speculated Oden/Miller/Joel for just Harris and Murphy. Adding NJ 1st rounder and another big body in Humphries makes more sense for the Blazers. Maybe it is too good from our end to be realistic.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
Blazers aren't giving up Oden
Simple as that
The Leeroy Rule: being insistent >>>> being correct
by leeroyjenkins on Feb 22, 2011 8:33 AM PST up reply actions
bang bang!
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I don't mind trading Miller for 'youth'.
Just as long as this youthful talent that can be relied upon to be one of the main pillars for a playoff/title contender for years to come. Otherwise, given Andre’s current level of play, his contract, and team chemistry – it seems a little pointless right now.
I just don’t know if Devin Harris is that guy. =/. Hope I’m wrong.
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
No to Devin Harris
Devin Harris might have the skills to be a servicable point guard but he’s not going to jump up to elite status and if he did shame on him for not playing his best when his team was down that is not a guy I want on my team. get me assets to go draft a winner like Westbrook
We're not getting Westbrook
Nor CP3, nor Williams, etc.
Devin Harris is exactly the kind of player you need to get if want to be relevant, a guy with All-Star potential that is a bad fit in his current situation. You get him and hope you can squeeze his potential out of him.
Relevent????????????????
The Blazers are relevent already. Not championship material yet but still very relevent. My question is are you confused? You start by saying he’s the player we need but you end by hoping to squeeze out his potential??? He either brings it every night or doesn’t he’s shown me he doesn’t beware Blazers
we're barely relevant after a win streak over mostly bad teams
we clearly don’t have the talent to contend right now. I agree with Blazerverse…if Harris responds well to our situation it’s a great trade for us, because Harris, when reaching his potential, is an all-star caliber PG that is better than Dre and just happens to be younger as well.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I think the issue is potential vs. where we are now
We know exactly what we’re getting from Andre and it is good. However, this team short of a miracle w/Brandon’s knee’s or Greg healing well and being willing to resign in Portland when he’s an unrestricted free agent next year is heading towards a 1st round exit from the playoffs for the next 5 years.
Devin Harris has the potential to be a game changer. He may not, and right now he isn’t playing like he will. If Devin reverts to his good play we win on this trade. If he doesn’t we end up with a player that produces at about the same level as Andre Miller, with more injuries but 7 years younger. We may lose but not by much. It’s a gamble but the gains outweigh the losses. I
Portland when he’s an unrestricted free agent next year is heading towards a 1st round exit from the playoffs for the next 5 years.
And that’s the crux of the Miller/Harris argument. If you’re a pessimist, you don’t see the team going anywhere soon, so you make the deal because Harris is younger. If you’re an optimist, you see the team fairly close to making a WC run because of LMA’s emergence, We$ and even Roy potentially being a good sixth man.
I’m firmly in the optimist camp until next trade deadline, and that’s why I’m against this deal. The team is on the upswing, and Miller is a huge part of this and LMA’s emergence. We want to see what this team can do with Roy and the GO wildcard, and PREFER Cho address our interior needs to help us get there. The Western COnference is in a very vulnerable state afterall, and we view Cho as going after the wrong priorities and potentially messing up an ascending team.
If we’re wrong, and we could be, trade Miller next trade deadline. There’s absolutely no need to be stunting that now. But if you don’t believe the team can win soon, you really don’t care. There’s a whole bunch of downside to the trade if you are in the camp that Portland can make a run now, or more realistically next year.
I'm optimistic that Harris can take this team to greater heights with all of the pieces you mentioned than Dre
I’m amazed at how high you consider the ceiling of our current roster. We have not done well on the road or against winning teams this year, but we go on a win streak against mostly bad teams (right after getting pasted by Indiana) and all of a sudden we are WC finals material? As far as the timing, if the FO wants Harris specifically, now would be the time to get him.
I’m confident LMA will be fine without Dre. I don’t expect a major dropoff in the capabilities of our current incarnation. If it works out our longterm outlook raises significantly.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
We're 20 - 11
Since and counting the loss to Dallas on Dec 15. Only about 25% of those wins were against playoff teams.
Near .660 stretch for 30+ games is still pretty decent though.
Oh I love it
we’ve been playing great and it’s been a very fun stretch…but I credit that to LMA more than anybody, and I think a lot of our guys have stepped up. I LOVE Dre, I feel like that’s getting lost in this conversation, but I think the risk/reward of Devin Harris is absolutely there. We are not a contender. This is a chance to buy low on a 28 yr old all-star caliber capable PG. I really like the idea of adding Harris to our core of Wes-LMA-Nic, I’m surprised that more people aren’t enamoured by the potential of that group going forward.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 22, 2011 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
Oh yeah?
Last I checked we beat SA, Chicago and NO this month, without 2 returning starters.
home home and home?
maybe you feel good about our chances in a 7 game series without home court, but I do not. I watch all the games, I know what we are, who we were, what we’ve done, all of that.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 22, 2011 10:05 AM PST up reply actions
We've also been killed by Indiana, Denver, and Sacramento in the past month...?
Oh, and the Clippers have also beat SA, Chicago, and NO. We’ve won soem great games lately, but that doesn’t mean by any stretch that we would actually be competitive in a 7 game playoff series with any of those teams.
Missing our center
and our All-Star shooting guard. We may look like a complete team in the rankings but those wins were with 6 guys. I would love to bulk up the bench a little and see what we have in the post season.
True enough, it has been miraculous to have won those games without Brandon and Camby
But I think it’s still obvious we would not win those games most of the time, and even if we get Camby back, I still don’t think we have the slightest chance of upsetting any of those teams (well, SA, LA, NO, OKC) in a 7 game series without homecourt advantage, which is what we’d have to do to get out of the first round.
And I have serious doubts that we will ever have the “All Star” Brandon Roy back. He was not even close to his old self earlier this year, and his injury is not the kind of injury that “heals”. If he comes back and can use his incredibly high BBIQ to be a great player off the bench, great, but that is far from being his old all star self.
Hey, these games have been realyl fun, and the team is awesome to watch. But we’ve got an opportunity to greatly improve our chances at winning in the playoffs not just this year but for the next 6 or 7.
But I think it’s still obvious we would not win those games most of the time, and even if we get Camby back, I still don’t think we have the slightest chance of upsetting any of those teams (well, SA, LA, NO, OKC) in a 7 game series without homecourt advantage,
I disagree, and bringing in Harris makes that probablity even worse
maybe for the remainder of this season
but not for any of the seasons after this one
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 22, 2011 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
for 11-12 too probably as well
Either way, I rather have Miller’s skill set for this particular team
completely disagree about both of those things
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 22, 2011 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
well, not the skill set one as much
but certainly the idea that we’d be better off with Dre than Harris in 11-12.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 22, 2011 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
Completely disagree
Stalemate. It’s working now, it will work in 11-12’, and I don’t want Harris in any event because of certain risks. This conversation is played out. It’s Cho’s move.
It's working so well that we're barely relevant
and the outlook for the remainder of the season and the immediate future isn’t bright or necessarily even trending upwards. Look, I’m happy with how we’ve been playing, I truly am, but I am not satisfied with our roster’s current ceiling or its outlook for the near future. I want more and I think this deal can potentially raise that ceiling, agree to disagree.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 22, 2011 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
I think that this 6 game win streak has put some good seasoning on a mediocre dish
We were 26-24 before this streak and 20-20 not long ago. It’s been a great stretch, I don’t consider it sustainable against the league’s elite.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 22, 2011 12:58 PM PST up reply actions
Besides, what are we doing to maintain this streak?
LA is currently playing 40+ minutes a night, and has been for nearly 2 months. WM is playing 40 mpg in February, Nic is playing nearly 39 mpg in February, Dre’s minutes are up nearly 4 mpg in February to 36. I know we’re banged up, but those are simply not sustainable numbers and it is simply impossible for LA to play better than he has recently, and some regression to the mean is all but inevitable there (just like Amare wasn’t going to maintain his 30 point streak forever), and we still have two more months left in the season before the playoffs even start.
It really seems that we’re winning because we’re playing full out right now while other teams are saving up for the stretch run, not that we have another gear to kick into once Roy and Camby come back.
by Royster on Feb 22, 2011 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I was going to make that point as well
but I didn’t want to rehash the Devin Harris durability debate. It’s relevant though, I think this win streak has given false hope that we can compete. Thanks for posting this.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Aldridge was averaging about 38 before December
which would still be top 10 in the league, Matthews was decidedly not, averaging about 25 minutes while Roy was playing and 37 when he was moved into the starting lineup. Put in perspective, only one player in the league is averaging over 40 mpg for the season right now (Monta Ellis), although Aldridge is still just below that for the season and Matthews is obviously a ways off with his season-long numbers.
That has nothing to do with PG
And we are very much relevant. Pretty close to being able to do something good in the playoffs with the right moves. If you disagree, then we agree to disagree again. I’m tored of the same bullet points.
We are not that good. Plain and simple.
It absolutely has to do with PG, it has to do with everyone on the roster and the big picture gameplan going forward. This trade can raise our ceiling for the future, period. I’m amazed how opposed people are to it.
We agree to disagree, but I am not satisfied with this roster and I’m not gonna let a 6 game win streak that puts us at our high water mark of the season mask our roster’s blatant deficiencies (namely our lack of overall talent). We need a PG going forward and there is a 28 year old all-star capable PG who can be had for our aging, consistent but not spectacular PG.
I’ll end the argument there, but I’m not gonna forget which side of this argument I was on, because we’ll either watch the Blazers continue to be mired in mediocrity while watching Harris from afar, or we can actually take a chance on something that makes competing for a WC title within the next 3 years more realistic.
We’re all fooling ourselves if we think this current roster is capable of great things in the playoffs. If this trade doesn’t happen, I hope you’re right, but after hearing the perspective of almost anyone who is not an emotional Blazer fan (radio personalities, etc…), I am positive that this deal makes sense for us. Harris would be a great piece to have going forward and gives us a youthful and talented core of Harris-LMA-Wes-Nic plus Rudy, Dante, Roy, etc…. The Western Conference is changing, a window is opening for a few years from now, we can keep chasing a dream or we can take a step to position ourselves to actually contend.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Yup, it's a pointless conversation dialogue now
You have no idea what will happen 3 years from now, and I assure you Harris will be no part of that. That’s another reason why I don’t like Harris either short or longterm. Short term, he hurts the continuity of the team, and is slightly inferior; longterm, I think he’s going to start fading after 30. Speed players with poor jumpshots who do most of their scoring in the lane don’t age well – especially oft-injured guards. Even if this mythical ‘3 years from now’ timeline opens up, Harris isn’t even under contract and LMA is up for renewal. There’s so many things that can happen between now and there any anticipation for 3 years from now is ridiculous. Either way, I’m confident Harris will play no part in that.
And if you want to downgrade our chances the next 1 1/2 years, then fine. The odds are low anyway admittedly. But I think the team is better than that, and provided we get some break along the way (Batum improves, Roy develops into good sixth man, GO returns), I think the window is still open next year. And even though the odds of that materializing are slim, they will probably be much larger than the 3 years out timeline you seem to want to employ.
Besides, winning a couple rounds in the playoffs would get us sufficiently close that anything could happen. I’d rather shoot for that now.
"Pretty close to being able to do something good in the playoffs"
That is very much relevant? That sounds like complete mediocrity to me… it sounds like a decader of never winning a playoff series, which is exactly what it has been and looks to continue to be, if we don’t make any changes.
We're not even sure the next couple years
will be any better off than this one. We don’t even know what’s going to happen with Roy and we haven’t addressed the fact that our bench is non-existent. Those are serious problems.
Trading a good PG for a good PG who may (or may not) have 3 more years of shelf life in the middle of the final stretch of the season makes more serious problems than it solves IMO.
This season could even be the closest we get to relevance for the next 2 or 3 years.
To me, it's not about that
If Harris is the guy our scouts have singled out as someone we want…as a young PG with all-star capability that they want to be a part of this core, then it’s not a PG conversation, it’s a Devin Harris conversation, and his availability may be this week alone.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 22, 2011 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
That's fine
Let the Devin Harris ship sail. It’s no skin off the organizations back WHATSOEVER.
in your opinion
that is not a fact
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Cho, Born, Buchanan, Allen, and Miller
may feel differently
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I would disagree that Devin Harris is a 'game-changer'
The Leeroy Rule: being insistent >>>> being correct
by leeroyjenkins on Feb 22, 2011 8:33 AM PST up reply actions
“Devin Harris has the potential to be a game changer.”
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I'd rather have guys who ARE instead of guys who MIGHT BE DOWN THE ROAD
Blazers fan since '91
REST IN PEACE MAURICE LUCAS 1952-2010 R.I.P #20
"We're family because of this stupid, stinkin' team." - Dave
by rise_stand_resist on Feb 22, 2011 9:41 AM PST up reply actions
we are not a contender
his value is less right now because it is a MIGHT BE DOWN THE ROAD situation. That’s why it’s a risk. I’m not saying it’s not a risk. But the reward would be significant…our roster would be closer to contending as a result.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 22, 2011 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
Plus...he also done it in the past
All-star, playoff runs with Dallas
Harry Bosch: "Everybody counts....or nobody counts."
by 92wastheyear on Feb 22, 2011 11:23 AM PST up reply actions
Devin 15ppg 7apg 40%FG
Andre 13ppg 7apg 46%FG
Devin Harris has 11 offensive rebounds this year.
Andre Miller has 70 offensive rebounds this year.
Patty Mills has 14 offensive rebounds this year.
Devin Harris has 57 steals this year.
Andre Miller has 86 steals this year.
Devin Harris has 130 personal fouls this year (31:53 mpg – 54 games)
Andre Miller has 117 personal fouls this year (32:47 mpg – 55 games)
Devin Harris has 158 turnovers this year.
Andre Miller has 142 turnovers this year.
Devin has Andre’s number in 3FG%, and scores a bit more. Personally, I’d prefer the guy who doesn’t miss games, doesn’t turn the ball over, creates more offensive possessions for his team, doesn’t end more possessions for his team without points (40% FG to 46% FG) and commits fewer fouls.
by ZenGarden on Feb 22, 2011 8:04 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Devin Harris has 11 offensive rebounds this year.
That’s a scokingly bad total. I’d bet Muggsy Bogues would have more Off. Rebounds in any given season in a comparable number of games
Bogues pulled down 0.6 career off rebounds
in his prime, playing near full seasons, he would snag around 60 per year
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Harris also draws 2.5 more fouls per game, has a higher TS% all his career, has a higher assist percentage by 5 points...
“Doesn’t turn the ball over”: Harris 17.5% for a player who drives a lot vs. 17.2% for Dre. Yeah, huge difference.
by Norsktroll on Feb 22, 2011 8:08 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Probably
Over their careers Devin shoots 44% from 2 and Dre 46%. Yet Devin also gets more free throws and threes, which helps in eFG and TS%.
additionally
according to basketball-reference.com
Dre’s career AST% is 35.1
Dev’s career AST% is 31.0
i mean,
if all devin has on andre analyzing this year alone is higher assist percentage, and gets to the line a time or 2 more…scoring and assist being pretty much equal, but the orebs, stls, fouls committed and raw turnover totals being in Dres favor, i see it as a lateral trade. The areas he makes up for, we may miss out on things Dre provided. I just dont see it as a reason to add a guy who gets down when the going gets tough for a guy who doesn’t let anything affect his level of performance.
If it is lateral (more or less)...and I do
Then the age difference if the key….28 trumps 35
Harry Bosch: "Everybody counts....or nobody counts."
by 92wastheyear on Feb 22, 2011 8:52 AM PST up reply actions
But you don't because we know how important Andre is to the team
We know the chemistry is good; we know LMA has emerged and has publicly stated Andre makes thing easier for him; we know the team is on the upswing without two starters. Who cares that Harris is sever years younger at this point? If all the proponents of this trade are looking 5 years down the road before Portland can compete again, then why is it important to have a 33 year old Harris who’s game is compltely dependant on quickness? Hi won’t make an ounce worth of difference when it matters anyway.
The time is now for this team. Even if we only get past the second round with Andre and no further, we’ve taken the necessary steps for advancement for the beyond. To ditch the known – which is working – for the unknown is not what the team needs.
Who is looking 5 years down the road?
This year and next ….if it doesn’t work you flip him. If you dre and it doesn’t work….what? He retires?
Harry Bosch: "Everybody counts....or nobody counts."
by 92wastheyear on Feb 22, 2011 9:01 AM PST up reply actions
No
He’s still an expiring contract by next deadline. His value is still essentially the same. We see where we’re at then. A lot can happen between now and next year:
1) We draft a PG in the draft, which is not that great except at PG
2) We see how far Armon Johnson progresses, and act accordingly
3) We see what other players may be available at next years deadline
If Cho addressed the team’s actual needs, we should focus on making a run and leave LMA to continue progressing under Andre until we can be more sure he won’t regress. Getting the ball in the right place is important to LMA’s success, and Harris is a compltely different drive and kick player. The difference will noticeable.
Like I've noted before
Portland is still an extremely young team. Fernandez is 25, LMA 25, Roy 26, Cunningham 24, We$ 24, Batum 22. We actually need and desire a veteran presence on the team. We don’t need to get younger now.
We could also hang onto Dre and have a very desireable backup true PG for a couple of years after he starts. This would mitigate any transition pains between the new PGOTF and a sudden drop off.
Harris is a downgrade
+1 with ZenGarden:
1 Chris Paul, NO 24.65
2 Russell Westbrook, OKC 23.99
3 Steve Nash, PHX 23.68
4 Derrick Rose, CHI 23.32
5 Deron Williams, UTAH 22.17
6 Tony Parker, SA 20.88
7 Stephen Curry, GS 20.10
8 Ramon Sessions, CLE 19.06
9 Chauncey Billups, DEN 18.82
Andre Miller, POR 18.82
11 Lou Williams, PHI 18.80
12 Rajon Rondo, BOS 18.34
13 Devin Harris, NJ 18.05
An upgrade would be Stephan Curry or Ramon Sessions
So Sessions is an upgrade to Dre but Harris isn't?
What?
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Sessions is younger than Harris
It’s that simple.
Per minutes played
he is; but no I don’t think he is an upgrade and he can’t hit threes.
Stephen Curry is another story hit’s .429 avg threes and is .487 FG% this year. But I doubt there would even be and argument with him like there is with Harris. Curry is the only one (that’s possible) that I think they should go after.
I think we can all agree on Curry
but I think we can all admit his price tag is a lot higher than Harris
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 22, 2011 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
sorry
any list that has Rondo as the 12th best PG in the league cannot be taken seriusly.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Harris tends to miss 20 games or so a season
Also he can’t shoot, or hasn’t been able to the last few years at least.
Granted I’m no expert on his game, but I would be willing to bet he lacks the craftiness and overall basektball saavy of our friend Andre Miller.
But he is younger! I don’t remember when the emphasis suddenly became getting younger, or why we need a ‘PG for the future’ at this point, but here we are~!
Needles to say, I’d probably keep Miller. This reeks of a trade just to say you made a trade.
The Leeroy Rule: being insistent >>>> being correct
Because we can
“why we need a ‘PG for the future’ at this point”
Like I said before….we have been trying to get the mythical PGOTF for a loooong time now. No reason to think we will find another candidate any time soon
Harry Bosch: "Everybody counts....or nobody counts."
by 92wastheyear on Feb 22, 2011 8:41 AM PST up reply actions
Miller has more games left than Harris
I believe Harris is only good til about thirty. Andre has always played slow and crafty. When Harris slows down, he’s done.
by Chesterstinkpickle on Feb 22, 2011 8:43 AM PST up reply actions
The front office likes Harris specifically for a reason
he may have less “savvy” than Dre but he seems to do all right for himself. He is capable of being an all-star caliber PG.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Dave, I think this belongs in the trade drawer.
There’s one the the recomended fanpost section :)
"AND THE GAME IS OVER! THE GAME IS OVER!! THE PORTLAND TRAILBLAZERS HAVE WON THE NBA CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!" Bill Schonely, game 6 of the NBA Finals, 1977 and 2011
by dirtboydave on Feb 22, 2011 8:33 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Also I wouldn't let go of Oden
and I don’t think the Blazers have any intentions to
The Leeroy Rule: being insistent >>>> being correct
id let Oden go
GO just seems like a Golden State player.
#7
by collectiveshane on Feb 22, 2011 8:39 AM PST up reply actions
I have to disagree with your statement that Beidrins
injuries are less chronic than Oden’s. Beidrin’s has osteitis pubis which is a chronic condition. While Oden’s condition may feel chronic (the similarities in the 2 MF surgeries almost seems systematic) to say as a fact that it is more chronic than Beidrin’s condition is a false statement. Maybe it is a little bit of me arguing semantics but I feel that there is a distinction that should be made. Good stuff as always though.
I loved when Bush came out and said, "We are losing the war against drugs." You know what that implies? There's a war being fought, and the people on drugs are winning it. --- William Melvin "Bill" Hicks
If we trade Miller for Harris, our season is done.
Basically we’d be throwing in the towel. Our upcoming schedule is downright brutal and not the time to try and “come together” as a new team. I’m not sure that we have any chance of advancing in the PO’s, but at least we’d make it.
by Chesterstinkpickle on Feb 22, 2011 8:52 AM PST reply actions
What??
How is it throwing in the towel? mark my words if we get Harris, there will be a 6 game adjustment period and then we’ll be perfectly fine.
#7
by collectiveshane on Feb 22, 2011 8:57 AM PST up reply actions
IMHO we'd need much more than six games
Have you looked at the schedule? Harris himself will have to learn how to win again. And Andre is a better pg.
by Chesterstinkpickle on Feb 22, 2011 8:58 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed
This trade would likely signal the end of any push this season.
I agree with collectiveshane
I think the dropoff of trading Dre for Harris is being way overblown. In no way do I consider this trade surrendering this season, not at all.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
I agree.
Even if there is a dropoff this season, I still make this trade. But Harris’ ability to score and much better shooting will instantly become a huge plus for the Blazers. Whether that offsets a potential decrease in lobs for LaMarcus, etc, would remain to be seen, but once the initial adjustments are made, I think we’re better with Harris than Miller, even by the end of this year.
There would be a drop-off though
and on our current pace we’re not going to hit 50 games without a miracle. The difference the drop-off makes may easily be the difference between facing OKC or the Mavs/Spurs/Lakers
I'm fine with facing the Spurs, decent matchup for us
I’d rather not face the Thunder because I’d hate for them to beat us. I don’t think we can get by the Lakers or Mavs.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 22, 2011 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
I actually like the Spurs match-up too
and wouldn’t mind OKC. Mavs seem to match-up badly with us for some reason. Lakers just have too much firepower.
If we could pick our match-up then it would all be cool.
I agree....in fact this a kind of balancing act type move
Probably good down the road , while being OK this year too
Harry Bosch: "Everybody counts....or nobody counts."
by 92wastheyear on Feb 22, 2011 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
You're dreaming
Total Wonderland fantasy this is
Pass on all above scenarios,
with Randolph now off the table,
Marks/draft pick/$ for Thabeet is still my choice Mr Cho.
Iam not convinced AJ could not be Harris. Rather part with Marks expiring contract than Pryz.
"We've got to get stops ! " ...... Nate McMillan
What value has a veteran minimum expiring contract attached to a bad player?
Nada. We don’t even get under the luxury tax by trading Marks.
You're not convinced AJ could not be Harris? How long will that take?
the collective opinion of Devin Harris is astoundingly low around here
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Dallas traded Harris ,
for a reason, and went after Kidd. Cuban opens his wallett to be a contender.
Don’t know exactly how long it would take AJ, but Dre isnt going to retire this summer, and AJ has the tools for the job. Once AJ isnt a rookie, and Nate takes the leash off, we’ll see.
As far as the $, I DON"T care. If Mr Allen wants to win, it’s time to open the wallett for another big. He can keep his precious Pattcakes on the bench, but he needs to pay for it.
"We've got to get stops ! " ...... Nate McMillan
by FrenchieFan on Feb 22, 2011 10:01 AM PST up reply actions
color me confused
I guess I just see the ceiling of a Dre-led Blazer team over the next 3 seasons as lower than you guys do. And I sure ain’t putting my eggs in the Armon Johnson basket…sure he’s shown potential, but so have a ton of guys that don’t end up all-stars like Devin Harris has. It’s not a reliable course of action imo.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 22, 2011 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
Changing your pg
every season hasnt been very reliable for the Blazers over the last 5 years either.
Worst case, AJ doesnt pan out, Dre isnt THAT old yet, and the Blazers till have the summer to make moves..
"We've got to get stops ! " ...... Nate McMillan
by FrenchieFan on Feb 22, 2011 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
Yes, changing PG hasn't been reliable...
So keeping the one who we will have to change within a couple of years is therefore better than acquiring one you could have for 6 or 7 years?
And what moves can the Blazers make this summer? What point guard better than Harris is going to be available? None, not even any close… I don’t think we can turn down this opportunity.
We would be trading for a 28 yr old who was an all-star PG
that’s a plan for the position that I feel confident in. More so than banking on AJ or hoping that Dre is the same guy when he’s 36, 37, 38, etc…
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 22, 2011 10:46 AM PST up reply actions
Its rolling the dice either way,
What if Harris gets hurt again? Harris WAS an all-star that Dallas traded and now NJ wants to unload.
I still believe that a back up big should be priority #1. PG talk is smoke, imo.
"We've got to get stops ! " ...... Nate McMillan
by FrenchieFan on Feb 22, 2011 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
At least Harris WAS an Allstar. Andre never has been. Dallas made a mistake when they dealt Harris. Now they’re trying to get him back. What does that tell you?
by Eric Loftin on Feb 22, 2011 11:23 AM PST up reply actions
also, as Norsk points out above
Harris only misses about 9 games per year due to injury, not 20 like everyone is saying
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 22, 2011 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
None of this stuff does anything to address our needs
If Cho put more effort filling our needs instead of trading away what’s working, we’d be better off.
Our needs are greater than just backup PG and PF
we have a systemic dearth of talent that needs to be addressed before we can contend
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
You underestimate
But the conversational ship has sailed.
9.1 games is accurate for his entire career
if he misses no other games this season. That doesn’t give you pause? lol
I won't do an evaluation of PG injury risk today, but it sounds about in line with NBA standards
Point was that Harris has nothing structurally wrong that would be known. Regular muscle issues and bruises. It’s not like we’re trading for another Roy or Oden with a built-in “WARNING” injury label.
To help our way towards an overall healthy and balanced roster, you could root for us signing Tayshaun Prince in free agency maybe (unrestricted)
He’s what Andre is to PGs and Dirk to PFs. Only had 1 major issue since coming into the league, his back. Unfortunately that was recently.
Except it's been
more than 9 missed games these last few seasons. If we had a good solid backup PG it would make the Harris argument muuuch better.
Would you want this PG for Miller?
He’s never played 82 games. Missed 4 games his rookie season, then 18, 2, 4, 37, but is healthy now.
Under different circumstances...sure
Dre will be better for the team this year. Harris would be fine going forward regarding chemistry.
The catch for me comes down to injury history, timing and our lack of depth. Also, what else will we have to give up?
There’s a chance we could make this work in the off season or maybe find a better deal. Doing this now means we run head first into the concerns I just listed.
Can Cho work miracles? Getting Harris without moving Dre or making our depth worse or getting Harris with a solid backup PG to cover for him and not adversely affecting our depth would be pretty impressive.
AJ could become Harris? Really?
Harris led a pretty poopy wisconsin team to the final four as a sophmore, and he is the only player from that team in the NBA. I don’t hate AJ, but he has not been/is not/will never be as good of a player as devin harris.
That said, I could go either way on the trade. I like what miller brings to the table, but i think devin would be as effective as miller this season (after a gel period) and would be more effective in the coming years. You guys should remember how good this kid was in Dallas when he was playing with nba level talent…
by retirecards51 on Feb 22, 2011 10:25 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, Armon Johnson's upside is that of an Antonio Daniels type player.
"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."
Since half the people in here going crazy over Miller wanted STEVE BLAKE to continue to start over Miller,
Then, I think we should definitely trust that we can accurately evaluate the talent of our current players, and that we certainly do not overvalue current players at all. Miller for Harris? NO WAY! Miller is WAYYYY too good/more important to the team, than to trade him for Harris. If we trade Miller, it better be for a better PG who fits better… like Steve Blake…
Also, 2 years from now, when we don’t have Miller, and we are stuck with the most recent version of S Telfair, J Jack, Sergio, Patty Mills, or whatever other late 1st round PG we are desperately hoping will be the PGOTF, are we going to really be happy that we turned down having Harris, so that we didn’t disrupt our chemistry in that glorious, injury-riddled first-round loss ‘10-’11 season?
PLEASE DO THIS TRADE! Dre is our MVP of this season so far, and if we lose him we suffer this season. But if we KEEP him we suffer LATER for it. I’d take the risk of suffering in an already all but guaranteed first-round exit season., if it will help us in the long run, and sometime we might actually have a reasonable chance of actually WINNING A PLAYOFF SERIES!
I was with you until you started your second paragraph.
"The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason." - G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1909
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Do you see us having Miller in 2 years?
Even if we do, he’d be getting towards the very end of his effectiveness…
No
we’ll probably trade him at the end of this season.
I wanted us to trade for Steve Blake.
"The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason." - G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1909
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Oh ok
Well I was making a point, but I could honestly understand trading Miller for Blake more than standing pat.
I'm also in the reacquire Jarrett Jack camp.
But I seem to be in the minority on that one.
"The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason." - G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1909
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I always liked JJ
He played pretty good defense and took care of the ball. Got no problem with him coming off the bench
by Chesterstinkpickle on Feb 22, 2011 9:26 AM PST up reply actions
bonehead on the court sometimes though
makes you scratch your head
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
heh heh, yeah that's true
But you can’t have twelve hall of famers on your team and a backup pg of jj’s quality would be nice right now.
by Chesterstinkpickle on Feb 22, 2011 9:47 AM PST up reply actions
It didn't work the first time
What makes anybody think it’d work now
Blazers fan since '91
REST IN PEACE MAURICE LUCAS 1952-2010 R.I.P #20
"We're family because of this stupid, stinkin' team." - Dave
by rise_stand_resist on Feb 22, 2011 9:47 AM PST up reply actions
Cognitive dissonance.
I have my black belt in it.
"The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason." - G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1909
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I'd even take Bayless back right now
Watching our offense crumble into dust every time Dre sits is killing me lol
He just got cheaper after getting a D.U.I.
Maybe we could trade the Bayless draft pick for him back to Nawlins
Yeah me too
JJ off the bench would probably do a lot for us right now.
"Half" is not a statistic.
But a HUGE portion of Blazersedge very vocally supported Steve Blake started over Miller, certainly the majority, at the beginning of the ‘09-’10 season. I see you joined in Dec 2010, so maybe you weren’t here to see it (maybe you were) but trust me, this is how it was.
Now Miller is untouchable… SMH… Miller was great then, and is great now, but he’s also old, and isn’t going to lead us out of the first round this year.
Things are getting a little chippy in here.
Just a general message to everyone: Please talk about issues and not each other. When one debates a position, it is okay to disagree, and to do so with all you’ve got. But at no time is it okay to let that spill over into taking about the person you’re debating with. We’re all Blazer fans. And discussing the points of Miller vs. Harris is good. But insulting each other is not.
Sometimes in a heated argument, it’s good to have reminders. Thanks for understanding.
"The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason." - G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1909
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by T Darkstar on Feb 22, 2011 9:25 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
yep
I used to think Harris was better than Miller. Now KNOW it.
by hoodieNation on Feb 22, 2011 9:26 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think I have.
I’m starting to like the idea of getting Harris after being firmly in the don’t know which is best camp.
"The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason." - G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1909
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yep, he's seven years younger and gives you the exact same output as our wily old vet.
but with years of play ahead of him. I’ll take it.
by hoodieNation on Feb 22, 2011 9:30 AM PST up reply actions
Even if he doesn't give you quite the same output
(I think getting a new start here, Harris would, but even if not) I would still make the trade. It’s a question of whether this season is worth sacrificing future seasons for. I don’t think we have a significant chance of getting out of the first round, and so no, I dont think this season is something that needs to be clung onto at the expense of possibly making our team better in years to come.
He does give you the same output. With better scoring... in less time.
Harris: 15.0 ppg, 7.6 apg, 2.4 rpg, 1.1 spg, 2.9 TOpg, 31.9 mpg FG% .425, 3p% .300, FT% .840
Miller : 13.2 ppg, 7.4 apg, 3.8 rpg, 1.6 spg, 2.6 TOpg, 32.8 mpg FG% .461, 3p% .107, FT% .854
by hoodieNation on Feb 22, 2011 9:36 AM PST up reply actions
I'm pretty much in the same boat
Harris is good but would mean sacrificing any hope of making the second round and his injury history really sets the alarms off.
If Harris didn’t miss nearly 20 games per season or we had a solid backup PG (like Dre) I’d be all for this.
Dre as a back up?
Has anyone given this any serious thought?
Harry Bosch: "Everybody counts....or nobody counts."
by 92wastheyear on Feb 22, 2011 9:39 AM PST up reply actions
I can see it now
Miller would start, and harris would come off the bench to play in a 3 guard line-up for 30 min. a game. Miller-Harris-Rudy-Cunningham-LMA would be our most polarized line up ever, well…. unless Outlaw would play the 4 of course.
Portland could coast along with their superior talent and stay right with us. Now that Portland woke up, the hammer cometh down.
Bayless > Daffy Duck after 3 cans of rockstar
by Batumshakalaka on Feb 22, 2011 9:39 AM PST up reply actions
Games played is partly off since at the beginning Dallas still had Jason Terry and Darrell Armstrong at PG
He didn’t miss all those games due to injury. He just didn’t play. And as said above, he had bruises and strains (hamstring, quad, shoulder) and a wrist injury. No ligament tears, no breaks.
The most games he missed was with a twisted ankle (14) and groin strain (10). Everyday NBA stuff, nothing major.
He’s not damaged goods.
by Norsktroll on Feb 22, 2011 9:44 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
When he had a wrist injury after falling on it the GM at that time said this:
“He played for a month (with the injury) and (for) three weeks he didn’t say anything,” Vandeweghe said. “We all knew it was sore. He just wanted to play.”
Yeah, clearly a whiny quitter.
by Norsktroll on Feb 22, 2011 9:49 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
????
this doesn’t jive with missing 20 games on average (120 games total!)
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Feb 22, 2011 9:56 AM PST up reply actions
As said above, some of the games he missed at the start of his career where DNP-CD and not injuries
He’s a bit like Camby. He gets tweaks, then returns in season.
I know - j/k
but the whole games missed thing is pretty funny as an anti-Harris argument.
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Feb 22, 2011 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
people who don't like Harris
should HATE Oden.
by hoodieNation on Feb 22, 2011 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
haha, but he's a blazer
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 22, 2011 10:15 AM PST up reply actions
It is pretty hilarious
to be able to check out some threads on BE and see people argue passionately that you can’t say Oden is “injury-prone”, but then come in here and have posters arguing that any PG who misses more games than Andre is an unacceptable injury risk.
If we do make a trade.....
I hope it’s after tomorrow night. I want our roster we have now putting a smack down on the L*kers. I hope we snow on their parade!
Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team.
-- Scottie Pippen
I am fine getting Harris but...
There still remains an issue with depth on this team that they need to address. Some talk with this deal involves Rudy. I’m not sure that makes sense taking into account all the minutes our player are currently logging.
I think Rudy is off the table....
I see them offering a first or second round pick. We can’t afford to dwindle our bench since it’s not that deep in the first place, guess that depends on BROY though. I have so many mixed feelings about this. I want but don’t, glad I’m not a GM.
Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team.
-- Scottie Pippen
it makes sense if 1st rounder coming back from NJ is part of the deal
plus, Roy is coming back.
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Feb 22, 2011 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
think harris trade would be there after the season as don't see any other suitors
don’t understand the rush to get rid of miller during the season, as he can be traded or waived after the season. really would like to see this team have a chance to finish this season.
lets see how we do with camby and roy back. if they can come back healthy and somewhat prodective i am not sure a first round playoff loss is a given.
if we can trade pryz for a serviceable big, that is a deal that you might have to look at.
harris will be there, so don’t worry about that. don’t see any long lines forming for him
I think Harris is getting traded at this deadline, whether to us or elsewhere
just the feeling I get though
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
hawks i can see as bibby sucks, but why dallas?
kidd is playing well right now and so is barea (sp)
Haha, no Barea sucks. And Dirk and Cuban still love Devin.
Problem is Denver already said they are not interested in helping out Nets any further by re-routing players to them.
How well does he work with Lopez?
I see Lopez like old LMA basically, but since LaMonster’s loose, he’s not going back. Only Miller may have been able to develop him, but can Harris play well next to him?
Portland could coast along with their superior talent and stay right with us. Now that Portland woke up, the hammer cometh down.
Bayless > Daffy Duck after 3 cans of rockstar
going back to a point others have brought up here - why does NJ do it?
it makes no sense on the court – but does potentially save them $22M over three seasons – more importantly – it puts them about $8M under the cap and in a position of strength (potentially) in a new CBA environment.
Sounds like a Prokhorov type of deal, to me – but I would make them give up a 1st rounder to make it happen (since we have to throw in a Fernandez, Babbitt or Williams to make it work + one of Mills/Johnson/Marks.
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
Who can save them more?
I havent looked at what the Mavs deal is, but does it look like we can offer more in terms of cap relief / talent?
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
this is actually relatively easy to model
what NJ saves is Harris’ salary in 2011/2012 and 2012/2013 + the difference between 2011 salaries exchanged. They have to take on from Portland at least one 2 year contract to make the numbers work – at around $1.2M (also, bear in mind I’m using whole season salaries for 2011 – so savings is less).
It would be very difficult for most teams to save NJ much more AND send them back any young talent.
The difference might be if another team can offer an expiring for one of NJ’s smaller 2 or 3 year contracts, like Morrow, Petro, Farmar, Outlaw, etc.
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Feb 22, 2011 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
what if
NJ Requires that we take back outlaw in the deal? hahaha
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
I can wipe that smile off your face
we would have to send back Mathews to make it work
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Feb 22, 2011 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
I would love to get Harris
But I am starting to feel like another team is going to make a better offer and we will do nothing at the trade deadline again.
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
at the very least, we get Roy and Camby
that’s not too shabby.
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Feb 22, 2011 9:57 AM PST up reply actions
me too
Count me in as another who feels like we’ll get shafted for not making a strong enough offer for anybody good.
by Eric Loftin on Feb 22, 2011 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
anybody available to the Blazers is available because of unsightly warts
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Feb 22, 2011 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
I would be STOKED
to see Gerald Wallace & LaMarcus Aldridge on the floor at the same time.
Terrence Jones.
Gerald Wallace to Portland-Greg Oden/Joel Przybilla/Plus both 1st round Picks to Charlotte
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4f9sg8k
would you pull the trigger?
Terrence Jones.
No way
Who do we have to play center? Where does Batum fit? Wallace won’t play PF. sorry man, that one doesn’t work for me.
by Eric Loftin on Feb 22, 2011 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
Not to mention Diop is hurt for the rest of the season.
by Eric Loftin on Feb 22, 2011 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
Wallace won't play PF ? Why not.
Miller
Matthews
Batum
Wallace
Aldridge
thats your starting five and gives us a fighting chance against the likes of LA, San Antone & Dallas.
Terrence Jones.
too small. We'd get killed in playoffs when teams just start throwing it inside.
by hoodieNation on Feb 22, 2011 10:19 AM PST up reply actions
i'd rather Batum came off the Bench in that scenario.
Wallace is a SF.
by hoodieNation on Feb 22, 2011 10:23 AM PST up reply actions
yeah
with Wallace I agree it would be Batum off the bench. We would see some Gerald at the 4 in a small lineup to get everyone minutes, but it wouldn’t be our default lineup.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 22, 2011 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
Dude.
He’s complained for the last 2 years straight about having to play so much of the 4 in Charlotte. He’s a SF. Every time his rebounding numbers go up and the media start talking to him he’s the first one to complain that he’s playing out of position.
by Eric Loftin on Feb 22, 2011 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
Dont think that one works for charlotte either
We get two of their better players and they get two broken centers?
We shall overcome
by DRock 4 Blazers on Feb 22, 2011 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
That's a tough call: Go for Devin Harris or "Crash" Wallace?
You don’t lose much this year or next if you keep Andre but the following year you’re screwed. Harris is the best PG available now or in the near future so it’s has some urgency; a once in a blue moon deal. With Gerald Wallace on the other hand you have a terrifying front line of Wallace/ Aldridge/Camby. No other teams, not even the Lakers, have an answer for that. But that’s a short- term lineup, good for 2 or 3 years and Devin Harris probably has many peak years ahead of him. Tough call Cho but you need to git ‘er done. What’s that you say Rich; PA said call him before you make any plans. OK Rich, good luck with that.
Przy to Orlando?
Deal to be made: Orlando sends PG Chris Duhon, C Daniel Orton, F Earl Clark and F Malik Allen to Portland for C Joel Przybilla.
so we just cut Mills, Marks, Elliott?
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Feb 22, 2011 10:15 AM PST up reply actions
no, we cut all the guys we traded Joel for, cuz they SUCK
by hoodieNation on Feb 22, 2011 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
what's sad is that someone got paid to come up with that scenario
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Feb 22, 2011 10:17 AM PST up reply actions
actually
I saw Earl Clark play recently and I think there is potential there…but I’m not sure how he’d fit in Nate’s system
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Feb 22, 2011 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
I agree
Clark looks like he has some potential. I’m not really sure he’s had the chance to settle down yet. Camby and LMA might do him a world of good.
here's another deadline nugget
Wright isn’t exactly a known commodity, but in limited minutes throughout his career, he’s produced solid numbers. The 23-year-old, now in his third season, is averaging 4 points, 2 rebounds, and 0.5 blocks in a career-low 9 minutes per game this season, shooting 60.3 percent from the field. That’s solid production and efficiency, …
we are getting great stuff from people with actual audiences….
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Feb 22, 2011 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
Gotta see how the team can do
Once we get our injured players back. Portland is currently playing their best basketball of the season, and would have run New Orleans out of the building last Wednesday with just one more rebounder…and Camby should be back any day now. The other thing that might help is bench scoring and crunch-time scoring…and that’s where a returned Roy would come in, at least initially. Sure, it’s unlikely that he’ll be back to 100%, but we still owe it to him to at least find out if he can still play. With Camby back, and a relatively healthy Roy back, we’re a legit sleeper in the West. No current trade would really improve that position; I’d argue that the Harris trade would weaken us, in fact. So for right now, I think you just stand pat and wait to see how the returning vets can help. After the season…well, I’ve got some ideas (specifically, how Shard Lewis or Agent Zero will fit in on our roster), but we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it.
The answer has gotta be No
We need to keep Miller and we don’t ned Harris. His career took a downturn and does not appear to be reascendant in any sense. Why would we go after a guy whose productivity and efficiency on the court has gone DOWN in the past two years? Especially when we already have a player named Miller whose productivity and efficency has gone UP!! And who makes LMA better on top of it all!
This just seems like so obviously a bad deal for the Blazers. It would be really really sad if the front office tinkered with this squad as it is configured now. These guys are balling. Flat out balling. I don’t doubt that on any given night we can be the best team in the NBA. When these veteran ballers and others like Matthews (who has an uncanny veteran presence) combine together, they just know each other and know how the game is supposed to be played.
I repeat: it would be sad and mistaken for this team to be broken up. Let Miller stay in Portland, which is a cool city for him too… a good place to raise his son. Miller may seem frosty on the outside but I bet on the inside he is happy here and would prefer to remain a Blazer. Come on let’s show some loyalty to the Man.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
- Charles Darwin
by Love on Feb 22, 2011 11:07 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Miller is old
We need to plan for the future. At the worst it is a lateral move. At best Harris gets back to his all star form where he was easily a top 5 PG.
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
Denver
Denver is trying to dump Harrington. I like Dre, Camby, and Joel for Nene, Felton, and Harrington. Don’t really like Harrington’s game or salary, but Nene and Felton would be good long term replacements for Dre and Camby. Might not be better this season but long term.
what does it do for denver?
and why in the world would they give up felton? be more likely to get lawson or whatever his name is, and that might be a good thing
dever gets rid of Harrington’s contract and gets Dre and Joel’s expiring contracts w/o loosing point guard or center productivity this year. Maybe we would need to throw in a pick
by norrsonwelles on Feb 22, 2011 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
I Dont Understand why Portlanders love Andre so much
First off the dude is 34, and i know Andre has shown us his skills arent regressing too quickly but guess what? it is happening and its inevitable. Age affects every single athlete even Michael Jordan. Right now We arent “Close” to being a championship team, we do have a couple pieces and a semi superstar in LMA but we have too many what ifs on the roster before we match up with the Lakers, Heat, Celtics, Spurs and Knicks at this point for a seven game series to win it all.
With that said if we can get a PG who is debatably as good as Andre plus 7 years younger, how could you not do it?
I know this upsets some people and your thinking “why do you think Lamarcus is scoring so much? its because of andre” i hear that so much! and i ask “really?” Really? people come on how many baskets a game does Lamarcus score strictly because of Andre seeing him and making an above average NBA point guard pass? maybe one or two AT THE MOST.
those passes Andre makes to LMA that leaves average fans saying “andre is an underrated passer, we should keep him!” are passes any good NBA PG’s should make and are regularly made by a handful of NBA PG’s not just Andre Miller. Portland fans have had to watch guys like Damon Stoudamire, Jarrett Jack, Steve Blake and Sebastian Telfair play PG for us which has forced us to watch shoot first PG’s like Jack, Damon and Telfair and a slow it down run the offense guy like Blake for the past 10 years. Andre is the first pass first creater we’ve had in forever, but he is not the only one in the NBA and they arent that hard to obtain
If you look a stat called the assist ratio which simply tells you per 100 offensive possessions how many assist will this player get. The stat is designed to let you really have a good idea of how good a passer that player is because assist can be boosted or deflated based on several different variables including pace, talent of the team, lack of talent on team, and who the coach is.
Rondo is first with around 46 per 100 while andre ranks a solid 9th in the league at 33 per 100, Devin Harris ranks 16th with 31.2 assist per 100, which is actually pretty fricking close, and also keep in mind the lack of talent on that team and that devin plays for a defensive minded coach and you might be even more impressed
Lets be real andre is an above average starting PG who is a great passer, good teammate, an excellent competitor who can score when he finds it necessary but he also takes atleast 2 jump shots no one wants him to take every game consistently, that he misses every game yet he keeps shooting, he also is a slightly below average defender in my opinion (though i wouldn’t call him a bad defender) and the fact is, Andre having no jump shot what so ever and being our main ball handler will allow his defender anytime he has the ball to sag off making it more difficult on our offense to have space and anytime he doesnt have the ball his defender will routinely leave to double or help just daring him to shoot, and the worst part is, he usually does shoot it
am i the only one who understands anytime those scenarios happen we become drastically worse as a basketball team?
devin harris is not a pure shooter but he shoots better then 10% that andre is shooting. He is a much better natural scorer and is almost on Andre’s level with passing. He also has natural defensive abilities in being tall and long for his position as well as being very quick. I believe his lack of defense in new jersey has to do with frustrations in coaching/losing as well the fact he has to play such a large roll in offense when back when he played for dallas his role was much different
In conclusion i think if we could devin harris and troy murphy for
Andre, Joel, Luke and Elliot I would say do it right now
If we have to through in Rudy Im slightly more tentative but still insterested
Probably not worth replying to, but what the hell
The point of a trade, if you’re a contender, is to fix problems with your team. Right now, point guard is not a problem on the Blazers, thanks to Andre. His job is to play defense on the opposing PG (which he does reasonably well, and a hell of a lot better than Devin Harris by the way) and “run” the offense through getting our shooters open looks and LMA scoring chances (which I’d argue he does as well or better than anyone). In short, he accomplishes both of these duties extremely well. He’s a great role player for this system. He is not the reason why our ceiling right now is “possible early-round playoff sleeper.” Our lack of a rebounder and our lack of offense off the bench ARE reasons why our ceiling is that low. So if you’re going to try and make a trade to fix the team, focus on those two areas first and not on PG, because Andre’s playing there just fine. When he starts falling off (which, theoretically, should be soon considering his age, but still), THEN you start searching for a PGOTF. Doesn’t make any sense to do it while he’s still going strong.
i guess if you want to get younger at the pg position it the way to go...
overall I’m ho-hum about this deal. devin harris is not really that great of a player to me.
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
my opinion on Miller or Harris for us
has been flip flopping for awhile now. I would almost prefer we take a look at a Nolan Smith or Jordan Taylor in this years draft & let Armon/The draftee battle it out for PGOTF while learning from Dre.
Terrence Jones.
I'm really surprised
We haven’t seen any rumors on the trade front from Sacramento. Cousins is apparently becoming a real problem… If you are Washington why not try to reunite Walls/Cousins, for say Blatche(bleh) and the Wizards first round pick?
What of Jason Thompson? Promising young player, not getting enough playing time… Stunting his growth. Dalembert is performing terribly and needs a new situation & is a HUGE expiring contract, excellent community guy and he can play center.
Take a gander:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4df2ooz
Kings get:
Oden
Przy
Our two 2011 first round picks
2012 first round pick
Blazers get:
Thompson
Dalembert
Carl Landry
For Sactown, what better way to tank and give your self the best chance at winning the lottery…then get rid of all your post players? bahaha
Terrence Jones.
Sacramento
Has no desire at all to trade Cousins at this point. They are focused on building around him and Evans. Well they are also focused on figuring out if they should move or stay also.
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
Well that means
Dalembert, Thompson or Landry could be had. Any would be an improvement over Joel’s minutes certainly. Also Cunningham<Landry.
Terrence Jones.
listening to radio down here
The team has stated that they really aren’t planning on making any moves. Might want to just shed salary but they are really trying to figure out what to do with the team as a whole. Moves will not be made to try and improve their team but they also aren’t gutting the team.
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
Dalembert would be shedding salary.
and it has been said for awhile Landry is on the block.
Evans/Cousins/Thompson is a nice young core to build around
Landry > Cunningham
Dalembert > Przybilla
If we could get either I would do it.
Terrence Jones.
Give Camby a shot at a title?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4hcv7r2
We lose Rudy, Cunningham & Camby. Chicago gambles their young players to open their championship window earlier then expected. They have coveted Rudy for awhile. Camby would be a perfect 6th man for them and Tom Thibedo’s defense oriented team.
We get Asik(promising young big man) Ronnie Brewer(Takes good shots, plays good defense, born in portland) Taj Gibson(Big upgrade over Cunningham) James Johnson(Underperformer thus far in his career), CJ Watson(filler/decent 3pt shooter and backup PG option). Perhaps Chicago’s first round pick and we just start stockpiling them.
Terrence Jones.
The only other teams who can compete with Chicago
for a Camby Package would be Magic:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4j5hkt6
Brandon Bass(Could start at PF in our new Two PF starting plan)
Ryan Anderson(who somehow has a PER of 20 :o)
Daniel Orton(potential)
Earl Clark(potential)
Quentin Richardson(filler)
Possibly some sort of pick swaps?
Atlanta:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=48p36bb
Marvin Williams(the likelyhood of this trade happening depends on how you value him)
Zaza
Their first round pick.
I would not want to trade Camby to a team in the West though.
Which package would you take if you were Cho? Atlanta, Chicago or Orlando?
Terrence Jones.
Hasn't Camby said that he'd retire if he got traded?
How does he even have any value? And if that’s the case, why not just hang onto him? He’ll be back any day now, and when that happens we’ll immediately gain one of the most efficient rebounders in the league without giving up anything.
I have received a warning for duplkicate posting here is a summary of what I tried to post
although my post was about the Miller Harris trade I thought it worth while to look at injury history WHICH THIS POST IGNORES COMPLETELY IN ITS ANALYSIS (so how exactly what I posted duplicates what was not included in this post I am not sure, but hey).
That said, the two guys tht scroll to the end of a 400 + comment thread, here is my 2 cents.
Since Devin Harris has been in the league he has only logged 2 seasons of more than 70 games played (7 seasons in the league not including this year). Over those 7 seasons Dre has logged 80 + games in 5 of those years.
(In my post I listed each year with numbers of games playyed by each, not going to do that work again)
Miller averaged something around 70 games per season over the span while Harris (the younger healthier player in the discussion supposedly) has only averged 58 games a season.
Poll
Knowing this Games Played History Do you:
Make this deal
Do NOT make this deal
Oh wait, can’t poll that in a comment either.
It amazes me that trade idea after trade idea goes up in the sidebar, to the point that more than half of those visible posts are dumb trade ideas and a different analysis of a hot discssion topic gets taken down.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
by PDXBuckeye on Feb 22, 2011 2:38 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
See above, the numbers are partly screwed by DNP-CD early in Harris' career
He has missed 64 games so far due to injury. Averaging out at 9 games missed per season so far (if he stays healthy this season). And all his injuries are muscle injuries, sprains, tweaks. No fractures, no ligament tears. So I’m not very worried about this aspect. It’s on par with other good NBA guards who are active on offense.
he only broke 70 twice
once in his rookie season (80 games)
once in his 3rd season (70ish games) not looking it up again
He has not broken 70 in ANY of his last 5 seasons prior to this one.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Your numbers are incorrect.
He has averaged 68 games a season up until this season, and so far has play 54 this year. I think you are wrong in the number of seasons he has played and that is throwing off your numbers??? He has only been in the league 6 years before this one, and he has averaged 68 games a year, and has played in at least 64 games every year except one, where he played in 56—and that one where he only played 56 games was also the season he was a second year player BEHIND STEVE NASH IN HIS PRIME during an NBA Finals run.
Actually, he’s never really missed significant time.
Oh yeah, that was 05-06, Nash was traded in 04 right?
Oh well, I remember he wasn’t starting being behind Terry I guess by then.
In any case, the numbers PDXBuckeye posted are incorrect. He has averaged 68 games a year, played in at least 64 every year except one, where he played 56—and that was a year he was a backup.
Yeah, he's missed 64 games in total in his career due to injury
Incl. 1 of those illness. +1 or 2 for personal reason. 3 this season so he’s on track to help his averages.
You are right He started playing in 04-05 the midseaon trade year each team is on two separate lines for the same season.
he played vs Dre played:
76 games in his rookie year (04-05) vs 82
56 games in year 2 (05-06) vs 82
80games in year 3 (06-07) vs 80
64 games in year 4 (07-08) vs 82
69 games in year 5 (08-09) vs 82
64 games in year 6 (09-10) vs 82
I also messed up my numbers for Dre though so the gap in games played is the same. 68 per season over 6 years compared to 82 per season over 6 seasons. Plus the only two years harris played more than 70 games were in two of the first 3 seasons looked at.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Allow me to interject...
And trust me, the only reason i came over here is b/c you guys are a legit fan base, unlike many of my cohorts.
Devin Harris is a defeated man. My team is 29-110 since October of 2009 and it has destroyed his will to live. If you guys teamed Devin with Batum, Aldridge & Matthews he would start tearing S up like the little spark plug he once was when we acquired him for J.Kidd.
All I really want back from you guys is Rudy. Miller & Pryzbilla/Oden plus Murphy on our side can be the filler. I love Harris and want him to go out west to a team i don’t hate. the Rose Garden faithful will love this man, trust me.
The Nets & Blazers will forever be linked… From Buck Williams to Drazen Petrovic to our hatred of the Lakers… Godspeed in the playoffs
@SlayerSantana on Twitter.com
Were they saying "Boo" or "Boo-urns?"
Hehe, nice. Thanks.
As also a Mavs fan, I already loved Harris there and kinda hated the Kidd trade even if it turned out pretty well in the end. So yeah, I would like to have Devin back and think he can still have years of very good work ahead of him.
I like this scouting report from DX back when he was new on the Nets. Pretty accurate. http://t.co/VCwdyFu
That was my thought as well
I mean, we’ve found out that Harris is not the next Chris Paul or what have you, but nobody’s expecting that. Even an incremental improvement in his performance as a Blazer would make this deal a no-brainer.
—Dave
"Anything for you, Dave." --Roybot
Batum/Pryz
I think the numbers work for a Batum/Pryz for Gerald Wallace trade.
Teams covet Batum. I don’t know whether Charlotte does but I do think most teams do. With a Pryz/Wallace trade, it would be basically a suicide pact for Charlotte. A Batum/Pryz versus Wallace trade would be a respectable trade for Charlotte.
Batum has huge potential, but I think Blazers are impatient to get better right now to give Paul Allen a shot at a championship. As much as I love Batum, I would be OK with a Batum/Pryz for Wallace trade.
And, that keeps the chemistry of old veterans Miller and Camby still intact with this team. Batum would be missed, but he’s not the kind of core element to this team that Miller and Camby are.
if blazers do trade batum
If Blazers do trade Batum, I will feel pretty sorry for him though. Charlotte. One of the armpits of the NBA.
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