Andre Miller PGOTF?
by dogbert on Feb 10, 2011 9:28 AM PST
Email
PrintThis time of year is rife with trade rumors on BE involving Andre, mostly at the ludicrous end of the spectrum. His name is generally mentioned as one of the top 2 players most likely to be traded by the beat writers and bloggers. The more I see of Andre Miller's game the more impressed I am. His major shortcoming that is pointed out ad nauseum is his lack of a 3-point shot. On the other hand he has a lot of strengths to his game:
1. Durability
2. Good passer. Best lob passer in the league
3. High BBIQ
4. Good driver/penetrator
5. Good post up game
6. Willing and frequently good mid-range shooter
7. Good veteran leader
I remember in the Black/Outlaw days we loved the 3-point shot, but when it wasn't going so well I wished we had someone other than Roy who could get to the rim. With the likely demise in effectiveness of Roy's game we are probably going to move away from the 1-4 ISO offense that was so dependent on 3-point sharpshooters. Even so, how many 3-point shooters do we need in the game at one time? Isn't Wesley and Nick enough? Rondo is an all-star and his shooting is probably worse than Andre's.
His defense, to my untrained eye, seems to be at least average. No worse than any other PGs we've had over the last decade. I'm sure he gets a lot more steals than we ever saw with Blake, or really any other PG we've ever had. He has this unique steal technique that I've not seen from other players where he intercepts the ball close to the floor right after the rebound. When it works the offensive player doesn't realize that their pocket has been picked until Andre is out in the open court. My recollection of the pre-Andre years is that the team very rarely got steals. Now it seems like we get more than most teams. Maybe one of you stat geeks can set me straight. My only criticism of Andre is the turnovers, some of them seem to be of the bonehead variety, but I guess that is part of the risk/reward equation for a creative passer. Who knows, maybe it was just a miscommunication.
PGOTF? Why not? I think I saw an article earlier this year quoting Andre as wanting to play until he's 40. His game is predicated on sheer craftiness, and almost zero athleticism. It seems like we wouldn't see much drop in his game in the next few years. IMHO he's been one of the steadiest performers on the team this year, and we would be nowhere without him.
Trade scenarios? It would seem that we have to get a top tier point guard in exchange for Andre if we have any hope of being competitive in the future. Off the top of my head the point guards that are better than Andre are:
Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Russell Westbrook, Rajon Rondo, Steve Nash. Of those, Nash is the only one that we might get without giving up one of our top three players. There has been a lot of talk about Devon Harris but I doubt whether he would to be that much of an improvement. Other that those players which other PGs would be a reasonable replacement for Andre? Darren Collison, Kirk Hinrich, or Ramon Sessions maybe, but any of those would be a downgrade from Andre.
I think we would be better off re-signing Andre and trying our luck in the draft. We probably could have drafted Collison or Sessions. If it turns out Roy is unable to return to his all-star form, then maybe he can re-invent himself as an Andre-like point guard.
136 comments
|
17 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
would commit to next year by exercising the option on andre's contract
tend to agree that he probably loses little over the next couple years. aldridge has been helped by him immensely and from whats in the media he has been helpful with the 2 young point guards behind him. the last few games it even seems that rootyttoot is finally shooting after receiving great looks from andre.
in trading andre, you have to be realistic on what comes back. hugely one-sided trades in portland’s favor are not likely. looking at this coming draft, it doesn’t look great to me. is fredette going to be a point or a shooter in the nba, and will his game translate to nba level?
people say he isn’t a championship quality point guard, and he may not be, but avery johnson was. going out on a limb, i would argue that andre better than avery was in every facet of the game
No option in his contract
He’s already under contract for next year. It’s unguaranteed, though, if he’s waived before June 30th.
by Storyteller on Feb 10, 2011 11:05 AM PST up reply actions
The big "knock" on Andre is his age...well no one seems to mention/remember that
Andre started in the NBA after being in college for 5 YEARS. This is only his 12th NBA season. This is Kobe Bryant’s 15th season. It is Kevin Garnett’s 16th season.
THE NBA IS HARD ON THE PLAYER’S BODY. Andre Miller has 4 years less NBA pounding on his body than KG and 3 years less than Kobe….
SO…really…why is Andre Miller automatically considered MR OLD GUY…just because he is 35?
82+ PLAYOFF GAMES…..for both KOBE and KEVIN ….and it seems they are still able to play basketball pretty well….
I work in the health care field and because of this maybe I am more attuned to how a chronological number can be such a ridiculous measure
There are 70 yr old 20 somethings out there and 90yr old 70 somethings out there…LOOK BEYOND CHRONOLOGICAL YEARS!!!!
Miller is in great shape. He misses NO GAMES DUE TO INJURY on a team where injuries are endemic. …..
I for one would be very happy if he remains a Blazer.
He can mentor a younger point guard…retire a Blazer.
Andre has my vote.
by Natsthecat on Feb 10, 2011 9:05 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
I should have said 70 yr old 90 somethings...meaning 90+ year olds who
are in great shape…who are in as good or better shape than most 70+ year olds!!!!
You sir...
are a right on the spot. Andre has shown so much durability throughout his NBA tenure, and his game has been largely unimpeded by age… and 35 is not that old!!! Friggin’ Favre is nigh 42, and has taken way more of a beating on his body than Andre has and was still able to (objectively) lead a professional team this year. Thank you for expressing my sentiments in a more sentient manner. If we get Oden & Roy back at even 75% strength next year, I think we contend. #24 deserves a retired jersey somewhere, purely based on how hard he works and how selfless he is. It’d be cool if it was in Portland.
Well said--rec'd
I still believe in Greg Oden. The Blazers' medical staff? Not so much.
I'd change my handle to "bringback'09," but I'm too lazy.
Great post
I agree that most point guards who would be an upgrade over Andre would be extremely difficult to trade for. And even if you were going to try to trade for a young guy with potential it’s likely the team he’s currently on would still want something big in return (Curry, Collison, etc.)
It’s obvious that Miller is a great fit with Aldridge. The uproar to trade Andre has come because he doesn’t play the best with Roy as they both need the ball in their hands to be effective and neither is a great off the ball.
Hopefully Roy can just fit in where he needs to when he comes back. I wouldn’t mind seeing Roy coming off the bench for Andre. Spread the floor with Rudy and Patty on the wings and see what he can do.
Andre's game is not overly athletic.
I think he will be a productive player until ~38 and if he learns to accept a smaller role he could be in the NBA past 40.
I loved when Bush came out and said, "We are losing the war against drugs." You know what that implies? There's a war being fought, and the people on drugs are winning it. --- William Melvin "Bill" Hicks
I think you're definitely right.
Dre never depended on athleticism or explosiveness at the rim, so his style of play ensures that he’ll be effective as he ages, and also ensures that he’ll age better, those two things definitely point to him being capable of playing past 40.
I love Dre because he’s an incredibly cerebral player, and to me, that’s way more enjoyable to watch than any amount of god-given freakish athleticism.
by gtbassett on Feb 10, 2011 1:43 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Thanks for this post...you saved me time
…Andre will be in the league performing at the level he performs now for the next 4-5 years because he plays efficiently and doesn’t abuse his body. But what he gets out of that is better than anyone I see available to us. Especially Devin Harris…I really wish Bedgers would get the Devin Harris thing out of here. There is a reason Dallas went out and got an aged Jason Kidd when they were in a Championship window. Devin Harris is not good. He puts up numbers. Including a ton of turnovers.
yeah
people keep talking about building for this mythical future 5 years down the road. you can’t think that far ahead in the NBA – too many things change too rapidly. 3-year plans is all you should really be looking at. And Andre can likely lead this team for 2 more seasons beyond this one, and be effective even longer than that.
not saying you don’t move him or look to improve/get younger at that position. but you do it for talent reasons, not just for the sake of doing it.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
by douglast on Feb 10, 2011 10:43 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
I thought that one of the rules for being the PGOTF was that you couldn't be older than 26
otherwise you are the PGOTP (point guard of the present) or the PGOTNTTTY (point guard of the next two to three years).
My personal opinion is that Miller is either the PGOTP or the PGOFTISAUWAPGWNESACPAAHLIHLT (point guard of the future in some alternative universe where a point guard with no especial shooting ability can play at a high level into his late thirties)
Cool. Now what does MCOTCP mean.
Main Character of the Color Purple
It’s Danny! and he’s been in town all along!
dinasour type of guys choir boys
Wouldn't expect anything more from anyone less.
"They say it has no memory. That’s where I want to live the rest of my life. A warm place with no memory."
Danny? Seriously?
Oprah was the main character, and she can BALL. I’m with Jake- Oprah is the PGotF!
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Feb 12, 2011 11:20 PM PST up reply actions
maning captian of the current position!
The Faith don't panic, the Faith freaks out, burns out small farms and villages in the name of the Faith.
Great Post!
I could not agree more… Andrea is way better than Harris. I hope Andrea is around as a starter for two more years, and two more after that to transition and teach our next PG.
Who? Andrea? Andrea Kramer? She'd be a terrible PG!!
Can’t be a worse jump-shooter though. OK, I’M IN!!!
by SerenityNow! on Feb 10, 2011 12:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Dude you misspelled Andre's name again
Maybe you’re thinking of Andrea Barn-yawn-ee.
Both teams played hard and ball don't lie. Rasheed is the Yogi Berra of hoops. We should start calling him Yogi Sheed.
Agree with this post
Even if Roy comes back and plays decently the rest of this year, you can’t assume that he’s going to just go back to being an All-Star next year. At least for 2011-12, we’ll need Dre there as the veteran offense runner in the case of a possible absence by #7. What I’d like us to do is just stand pat at this February’s trade deadline (IMO, our big late-February additions to the team will be Roy and Camby), and then go into next year with a roster of Miller/Mills, Roy/Rudy, Wes/Nic, LaMarcus/rebounding-and-shot-blocking-PF-that-we-take-with-our-2011-number-one (Trey Thompkins? Tristan Thompson?), and Camby/Oden. If everyone’s healthy, that’s a deep team and a possible title contender. If things don’t work out…well, we’ll have at least one first-round pick and probably two in 2012 (thanks, Hornets!) so we can re-make the roster then.
Very interesting take
It makes a lot of sense and has the advantage that, if Cho agrees with the premise that he’s our point guard, then he doesn’t have to trade to get one. This leaves him with just one position to try to upgrade which is center. Cho ought to be able to combine the tradeable assets on the team to bring back a decent to good center.
"I know, right?!" - Annoying new phrase every idiot is using
The Blazers don't win a championship EVER with Miller.
No team has EVER won even a PLAYOFF SERIES with Miller. ’Nuff said.
Has Devin Harris won any playoff series? How about Chris Paul?
Steve Nash has more first round exits than advancements. I could go on…
Go easy on him, his serenity meds are doing the talking.
by blazinagain on Feb 10, 2011 12:48 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Meds? I thouight i just yelled "Serenity Now!!" all the time and all my worries would be solved.
by SerenityNow! on Feb 10, 2011 12:51 PM PST up reply actions
I wouldnt need to yell "Serenity Now" if I was in Hawaii.
Not sure if my name was “tom”. But that doesnt seem so bad.
by SerenityNow! on Feb 10, 2011 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
Fair point.
That said the question is "Andre Miller PGOTF? " If the Blazers want to have 1st round exits for the next 5 yrs go ahead and have Miller as your PGOTF. If this team wants to go further, then it needs someone else. No one wins one until they win one. Applies to Miller too ofcourse. But if I had to bet on “some other PG” or Miller to bring a championship, or even a 1st round playoff victory, to Portland. I’d take “some other PG”.
The worst place to be as an NBA franchise is in the 40-45 win. That’s Andre Miller
by SerenityNow! on Feb 10, 2011 12:50 PM PST up reply actions
given the alternatives
I still think you could do a lot worse than sticking with Andre. I’m not saying he is the only PG for this team, just that aren’t a whole lot of better options available to us without scrapping our core. There is a lot more to successful playoff basketball than just the point guard. Andre may never have been out of the first round, but look at the teams he was on. He’s always been on teams that lacked sufficient firepower to do much more than make the playoffs, and exit after the first round. I don’t think you can put that all on Andre. He just didn’t have the horses to get out of the first round, and neither do the Blazers until they catch a break from the injury genie.
My point is that he does plenty of valuable things, and the only thing he doesn’t do well is shoot the long ball. Sticking with him for the next few years allows us to spend our cap space on filling up the other holes in our lineup. Maybe we can pick up an up and coming point guard or draft a promising player, and Andre can hold the fort while he mentors him.
I can get on-board with what your saying here. Miller is a solid placeholder until the Blazers find a better option. I don’t blame him for his teams lack of PO wins. Simply pointing out that he’s never carried a team into the 2nd round, and at 35 its extremely unlikely he starts now.
by SerenityNow! on Feb 10, 2011 6:03 PM PST up reply actions
Basically people should be frustrated by the fact that I think the Blazers supporting cast isnt very good, not that I think its PG is too old to lead it to success.
by SerenityNow! on Feb 10, 2011 6:05 PM PST up reply actions
It seems like it takes more than one player to carry a team into the second
round…LeBron couldn’t do it last year…
So I am happy to read that you are not anti Miller…I think LMA and Miller and a healthy Camby and Batum and Matthews…and possibly Brandon Roy…?knees…may be able to lead the Blazers to a second rounds…IF
Nate McMillan is able to make in series adjustments.
I think people sell this team short and because of this …second round only…not Championship…but maybe out of the first round.
LMA is playing at such a high level…
There are veterans on the team…
didnt he just do this....
sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball…/Andre-Miller-drops-52-points?
and he was 34 then ya?
by blazerfan80 on Feb 12, 2011 11:07 PM PST up reply actions
why?
explain why? because he hasn’t yet won a playoff series? look at the teams he had around him. if we lose in the first round this year, of all years, will you be saying “see?? he can’t win a series!” or will you recognize that he was the guy most responsible for our advancing (other than LaMarvelous)?
I'd still honk once!
Oh boy, I posted on the Miller fan club and am getting hammered for it.
same answer as below:
I miss something? We have Kobe and Gasol/Shaq on the Blazers?
In lieu of getting those types of players the Blazers need a better PG than Farmer, Fisher or a 35 yr old Miller. Hello people? The question is PGOT-FUTURE. Anyone going to say the Blazers can make it to a Finals with Miller as starting PG? No. That’s not Miller fault, the Blazers need alot to be that type of team and Miller is too old to keep for that eventual run. The Blazers need some other PG who can play and gain chemistry with Batum/Matthews/Aldrigde and maybe Roy (no idea what to think of his future) and build to that point.
by SerenityNow! on Feb 10, 2011 4:47 PM PST up reply actions
Yep, it seems like you are missing several somethings
- evidence for your viewpoint that Miller can’t lead a team of Portland’s caliber to win a playoff series
- what you think is lacking in Miller’s game that makes him incapable of leading a team deep into the playoffs
- some reasonable replacement PG who has the qualities you think are so important to winning
Without any of that, it’s hard to take you seriously.
by Matthews vs Roy... Fight! on Feb 10, 2011 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
Some of those things I can tell you, some I honestly don't know.
*evidence for your viewpoint that Miller can’t lead a team of Portland’s caliber to win a playoff series
--Only evidence I have is your beloved history. He has only once played for a team that has won 50 games…last year. And as I mentioned in 11 prior seasons he has not led a team to a PO round win. Not saying he never COULD have. Anyway his supporting cast was bad or atleast not great. Got it. The Blazers supporting cast is not that great right now and Miller has proven that he can’t lift mediocre teams to greatness. Next, historically players basketball abilities degrade over time. Miller is 35, he is what he is, but its only downhill from here. Basically by the time the Blazers have righted the ship and are ready to make a run (hopefully), miller will be 37-38? Is that really the guy you want leading the point for a championship window?
*what you think is lacking in Miller’s game that makes him incapable of leading a team deep into the playoffs
--Basically it comes down to age, see above. But he can’t shoot from more than 15-18 ft which doesn’t help. But mostly its age. I’m not thinking of THIS year, or even next. The Blazers need too much to go right to reasonably think a deep run is likely that soon. Thus Andre NOT PGOTF.
*some reasonable replacement PG who has the qualities you think are so important to winning
--Not sure. I like sessions, he’s young, draws fouls and is a solid distributor. Also I think he could be had reasonably cheap. Or maybe Mo Williams? I think Nate’s O runs best when he has shooters. I know seesions can’t shoot that well. Either way, are they definitely the answer? I have no idea, probably not. I don’t have the answer of “WHO the PGOTF is?” Just have one for “Andre Miller PGOTF?” That answer is “NO”.
by SerenityNow! on Feb 10, 2011 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
Please see my post above about "age"....this is Miller's 12th NBA season.
It is Kobe Bryant’s 15th, Kevin Garnett’s 16th….I go into detail above.
Sometimes it’s just a number….you need to look at the PERSON.
evidence
- Andre has a 0% success rate at playoff series wins. That is damning evidence if all you want is evidence.
- Lacking a reliable jump shot. No use having the ability to create your own shot if you can’t shoot.
- Aaron Brooks… and Jerryd Bayless, =)
That being said, I like Andre and I agree with the OP that he is the key to any success we have had recently. It is a trick question though because you are asking about the point guard of the future and Dre, amazing skill set or no, is getting old. This means that “in the future” we need someone new.
Maybe the PGotF is already on our team in the form of Elliot or Armon.
we can still win........
playoff success rate
Brandon Roy= 0%
LMA= 0%
and where did this “Miller can’t shoot” thing begin? he can shoot very well. mid range shot is quite good. not being a 3 pt shooter does not make you a bad shooter.
I'd still honk once!
All I know is -
When Andre receives a pass and he is 15 to 20 ft. from the basket, his main option is to penetrate and attempt a shot at the rim.
He has great success at this BUT every defense in the league has this shortcoming scouted and they sag off of ‘Dre begging him to go ahead and shoot that 15 footer because they know his numbers are low in that category.
They would rather pack the paint and let him shoot from distance. Facing a packed lane forces our entire team into jump-shot mode and that hasn’t always panned out for us this year. Just ask Barkley =p
A PG who has a 15 ft. jumper that defenses have to respect is a great asset to any team. It is the only real hole in ’Dre’s game imo but it has a cascade effect on the entire offense.
we can still win........
by RastaMonsta on Feb 11, 2011 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
not hammering you my friend...
just asking you to explain beyond “The Blazers can’t do it with Miller.” i do like Miller, yes, but i know his shortcomings. it’d be great to have Deron Williams as our point, but that ain’t happening. Miller is a very good point guard who makes other players better. he will not be the reason we lose a playoff series or that we won’t get to the championship.
now if you’re talking about a theoretical championship run somewhere years down the line… sure, i don’t know.. who knows who’s going to be the guy? but that’s too abstract for me right now.
I'd still honk once!
it's a little strong
to say that Andre CAN’T lead us to a championship or even out of the first round. There is no argument that Miller isn’t the best and most capable point guard in to the league that will definitely lead us to a championship. It seems to me that there have been plenty of championship teams with less than a top tier point guard. Who was the point guard on all of those Buills championship teams? BJ Armstrong? Derek Fisher is surely not a top tier point guard, nor was Terry Porter during their championship run. I’m not even sure who the point guard was on the 77 Blazers (Johnny Davis?, Lionel Hollins?). Of course there have been great teams lead by great point guards but there have also been great teams lead by other great players.
Miller isnt good enough to lead the CURRENT Blazer teamwith all its injuries and youth to a Finals. Could the Blazers get hot and win a series? Not likely, but sure. But as I’ve posted elsewhere, the current roster would need an elite PG in the form of a Paul/Williams/Rose to be a serious contender. Miller is not that player. Its not a knock on him, there are a lot of PG that he is better than. If you put him on the Heat or Celtics or Lakers he absolutely could win a title. But this isnt the Heat/Celtics/Lakers, its the Frail-Blazers and theyre just not good/healthy enough to win right now. So given Miller’s age and the fact that they can’t win now, why would Miller be the PGOTF?
by SerenityNow! on Feb 11, 2011 9:05 AM PST up reply actions
wait, really? THAT is your argument?
why are we even discussing this…. your point is somehow abstract yet randomly specific at the same time… why are you singling out Miller? you can make your argument then about nearly every position.. we need a better SG to win it all, we need a better SF, C… everything perhaps other than PF.
I'd still honk once!
C'mon man.
The reason I’m “singling out Miller” is because that was the question. The title of this FanPost thread is “ANDRE MILLER PGOTF?”
by SerenityNow! on Feb 11, 2011 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
The reason I said "no" is age.
That is something Aldridge/Batum/Matthews and others have on Miller. If it was “Marcus Camby COTF?” I’d have said no to that too. Not a knock, just age catches us all and the Blazers are not in position to win soon.
by SerenityNow! on Feb 11, 2011 12:19 PM PST up reply actions
alright fair enough...
i was probably widening the topic a bit too much.
ok, now ive got to get some freaking work done. between BEdge and the Egyptian revolution, ive accomplished very little over the past week+
btw, whatever one might think of them, aljazeera’s web stream has had fascinating coverage on the story.
I'd still honk once!
ALTHOUGH...
i still disagree…. :) perhaps overly hopeful, but Miller in a few years, if he can maintain (and his game isn’t really predicated on athleticism) this standard, or close to it, given that the team will be inherently different makeup in 2-3 years, who knows? maybe he’s just the guy to feed an even more monsterous LaMarvelous, and a beastly (i hope i hope) Greg Oden……..
fingers crossed.
I'd still honk once!
you get no argument
that Miller is no Paul/Williams or Rose, or that there aren’t any number of young point guards with more potential, but if Miller is not the PGOTF, then who do you propose and who would we have to give up to get them? Give us a scenario.
Are we ever going to have the best set of talent in the NBA (ala Miami, or Lakers) ? No. We are a small market team that is always going to have a hard time attracting the top tier superstar away from the larger cities. We simply have to live with our limitations. My argument is that replacing Andre with almost any other point guard is going to either deplete our core players so much, or be a lateral move for a younger PG with potential but little experience is even less likely to put us into championship contention. What would our record be today if we had gotten John Wall? I doubt we’d make the playoffs with him instead of Andre, and if we did manage to make it, his inexperience would probably result in a first round exit. I guess you could point to the Rondo example, but even then he had a cast of hall of famers and a coach that was able to blend them together to be a defensive juggernaut.
If for example, Oden had not been an injury magnet, and Roy had maintained his all-start form, I think this team lead be Miller would definitely have a change to get into the WCF. However, up against the top tier teams we are always going to be challenged without a top tier superstar on our team. Heck, if we had any of Paul/Williams/Rose through some magical trade instead of Miller, our chances would be better, but we would still be the underdog.
So why focus on Andre, as the player that we need to trade to get into the championship discussion. My thinking is that he is about as good as we can get given the PGs that are available and what we’d have to give up to get them. A bigger impact might be some more zip off of our bench. Carl Landry playing like he did for Houston a couple of years ago? Maybe a defensive stopper like Battier? A more consistent shooter?
You're right
I bet a friend of mine that the Blazers would have more wins than OKC this year. I looked at Oden/Camby/LA/Pryz up front, Roy/Matthews/Batum at the wing, and yes Miller/Bayless at PG and thought “Why not this team?” Under a healthy core scenario Miller is a completely capable PG for a deep PO run. But Oden is lost for ATLEAST this yr, maybe he never plays another minute for the Blazers. Camby is getting long in the tooth as well and is injury-prone. Pryz is a shell of his former self and also may not play for the Blazers after this yr. Roy looked downright detrimental to the team this year. I don’t think he’ll ever be the player he was. Hope I’m wrong.
If i had my way I’d trade Camby/pryz/Miller for youth and picks. Free up cap-space and gain flexibility plus clear space for young players. Play Babbitt, see if he has anything. See if Claver and Freeland want to come over sooner rather than later. “Koppenen, come see what happens dude”. Everyone not named Aldridge and Batum is on the market. Basically we tank out this year and go lottery. Roy’s contract combined with Aldridge and Batum’s (soon to come up) will limit immediate flexibility so sign Oden to his option and hope he recovers. If he does this team will be back in business very soon no matter who the PG is. If not, there is no way to save it without hitting the reset button. We plan for the worst and hope for the best. Meaning we go into the draft looking for a PG and depth. Hopefully the health thing turns around and this team won’t need to hit the jack-pot on a draft choice (ie Rondo/Parker….insert mid to late draft choices that turned into good PG’s here). A decent PG will do. But if health doesnt come around I want to spend the 5 bucks that is Andre Miller on a Powerball ticket. You can’t win if you don’t play.
Blow the thing up baby!!! The worst place to be in the NBA is in the 7-10 seed in a conference. Not good enough to win anything, and not bad enough to (likely) get a draft choice that can truly make a difference. If your not moving forward youre moving backwards. This team isnt moving forward right now.
Knee-jerk reaction? Not the first time I’ve been accused of that, but that is what I’d do. Unfortunately I don’t have hundreds of millions of dollars to make it happen. Stupid Powerball!!
I think the Clippers just called to say wherever they pick is bad too. (Blake Griffin aside)
by SerenityNow! on Feb 11, 2011 1:23 PM PST up reply actions
Serenitynow...have you watched Miller play this year? Or last year?
Or while he was in Philadelphia? I know he ate the Blazers when he played here the year before he became a Blazer…and this was on a 2nd of a back to back..and this was during the Blazer 54 win season…
So you know what…I have to somehow not get angry when I read this sort of post…
everyone is entitled to his/her opinion.
This must be how some people feel when I state Brandon should learn to play off the ball…
I'm actually a season ticket holder, so yes I've seen and enjoyed watching him play.
But the fact remains that he wasnt very athletic before and is only going to become less so. The Blazers are a bit of a mess right now due to injuries. No idea what they get out of Roy/Oden over the next few yrs. Barring the very unlikely that they come back as good and as healthy as ever, the Blazers will not be a serious contender in the west for atleast 2-3 yrs. Given that timeline how can people be saying Dre is the PGOTF? If you disagree with the timeline then thats one thing. But this team needs alot to go right for it to be shorter than that. That hasnt happened very much lately.
I also checked out your “age” post. Garnett and Kobe are actually YOUNGER than Miller (garnett only by a few months though). My response is basically the same as above. Do we really think Miller at 37-38 will be a Finals contender, starting PG caliber player? I don’t. No knock on him, age gets us all. And right now, THIS YEAR or NEXT, Miller isnt good enough to carry this team to a deap run….not his fault, only Paul/Rose/Williams are those types of guys at his position. Therefore I think some one else will be the Blazers PGOTF.
by SerenityNow! on Feb 11, 2011 8:44 AM PST up reply actions
younger in chronological years....but OLDER in NBA LEGS, HIPS...Wear and tear,
especially when you consider the number of playoff games these two have played in…
Not everyone is entitled to his opinion
That is a radical relativist assertion and it just does not withstand philosophical analysis.
Both teams played hard and ball don't lie. Rasheed is the Yogi Berra of hoops. We should start calling him Yogi Sheed.
If you only rely on history to tell you about the present, you will never be top dog
LeBron has never won a title, Sloan was never named COY. I suppose those guys suck, too.
by Matthews vs Roy... Fight! on Feb 10, 2011 12:49 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
I never said Miller sucked. And how saying that Miller is not the Blazers PGOTF equals saying Lebron and ex-Jazz coach Sloan suck is beyond me.
That said, the ultimate goal is to win a championship or to atleast be one of the teams battling for one over the next five yrs. Miller is NOT the PG to do that.
If the question was Andre Miller BPGOTF? I’d say sure. B=BACKUP.
by SerenityNow! on Feb 10, 2011 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
A successful general pays attention to more than what his scouts are telling him
Using historical knowledge to inform without letting it blind decision-making is the key. There are 5 people on a team, and I am not as ready to blame Miller as you are for those past teams not achieving playoff series wins. (Hint: Do you really blame Steve Blake for Blazers’ first round exit to Houston?)
Having said that, and looking at the team the Blazers could field in April, I could see Miller leading the Blazers out of the first round. Let’s take a look at the indicators of post season success:
Easy, efficient buckets – check. Miller’s lobs (and the lobs curl that Rudy developed from that) create easy points in the paint for LMA and sometimes Batum/We$. The trend of increased free throws lately has been a good one, but needs to continue.
Interior size and defense – 3/4 check. With Camby and Pryzbilla back, and LMA playing help defense, Blazers have learned to play the right kind of defense and not get into foul trouble. Even Miller is a good sized PG, and can post up and rebound.
game closer – check. LMA has proven himself to be capable in this role. Roy will have a chance to find his rhythm as a jumpshot closer with this improved Blazers squad. Matthews can sometimes be this guy, too, just not reliably yet.
So, I know what you are saying, but it comes off as a blanket statement that has not accounted for situational factors. I’ve tried to demonstrate those factors, and how they support a successful playoff series with Miller at the helm.
by Matthews vs Roy... Fight! on Feb 10, 2011 2:04 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Do you really blame Steve Blake for Blazers’ first round exit to Houston?
No, but that series further revealed that Blake was not going to be a starting PG for an NBA championship-caliber team
If there ever was any doubt about that possibility, beforehand
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Feb 10, 2011 7:48 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Your point is taken
And I agree that he is not that caliber of PG. In fact, he is barely worthy of sniffing ’Dre’s jock in spite of his ability to hit 3’s. That said, it wasn’t all on Blake’s shoulders. We had a young, inexperienced team running a system that did not lead to easy buckets.
by Matthews vs Roy... Fight! on Feb 11, 2011 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
Obviously
That said, the ultimate goal is to win a championship or to atleast be one of the teams battling for one over the next five yrs. Miller is NOT the PG to do that.
In order to win a NBA Championship, you need Derek Fisher and Jordan Farmer running point. Geez, everyone knows that!!!
by Sean M on Feb 10, 2011 2:57 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I miss something? We have Kobe and Gasol/Shaq on the Blazers?
In lieu of getting those types of players the Blazers need a better PG than Farmer, Fisher or a 35 yr old Miller. Hello people? The question is PGOT-FUTURE. Anyone going to say the Blazers can make it to a Finals with Miller as starting PG? No. That’s not Miller fault, the Blazers need alot to be that type of team and Miller is too old to keep for that eventual run. The Blazers need some other PG who can play and gain chemistry with Batum/Matthews/Aldrigde and maybe Roy (no idea what to think of his future) and build to that point.
by SerenityNow! on Feb 10, 2011 4:44 PM PST up reply actions
Or with Roy...please...I believe there are quite a few VERY GOOD players out there
who have not won a playoff series…and more than a few of them are on the Blazers…
I'd like to see what Sessions could do here.
Aim here!!
So Miller will never get us there, but Sessions has a chance?
Sessions, his entire career, has been the poor-man’s Andre Miller.
"The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason." - G. K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy, 1909
Blazersedge.com || New to Blazersedge?
Actions -> Rec and Flag. Blazersedge works right when you use these two things.
True. Never said Miller never could have gotten the Blazers there. Just that he can't now.
by SerenityNow! on Feb 10, 2011 4:31 PM PST up reply actions
Well, if Miller's game hasn't declined yet at all
And it’s pretty much a given he’ll decline gracefully when that occurs, I don’t see why he couldn’t lead a team far in the playoffs. You need to understand that Miller has never been the superstar who’s going to “lead” his team to a championship on his own. He’s an excellent complementary piece who can get a team to the championships, but not lead it; very much in the same way Dennis Johnson couldn’t have lead the Celtics to multiple championships without Bird, Parrish or McHale or how Baron Davis couldn’t lead his team to a championship without 2 other pieces who are better than him.
That’s why I find remarks that Miller can’t lead a team deep in the playoffs because he’s never won a playoff series absurd. If Miller was the undisputed main cog of an organization that failed to win a playoff series, the remarks may have merit. But he shouldn’t be faulted for failing to ‘lead’ his team to playoff glory when A) he’s mostly played for obviously bad teams and B) he’s an ancillary piece of the puzzle not the main one (the guy).
Bottom line is you put Miller on the proper team, he can win. But ask Miller to lead you to the promise land, well, he’s not good enough to do that. Just like Chauncy Billups or Baron Davis or Stephon Marbury or Terry Porter weren’t good enough without the proper pieces.
by zeusmith on Feb 10, 2011 7:18 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
That’s why I find remarks that Miller can’t lead a team deep in the playoffs because he’s never won a playoff series absurd. If Miller was the undisputed main cog of an organization that failed to win a playoff series, the remarks may have merit. But he shouldn’t be faulted for failing to ‘lead’ his team to playoff glory when A) he’s mostly played for obviously bad teams and B) he’s an ancillary piece of the puzzle not the main one (the guy).
Bottom line is you put Miller on the proper team, he can win. But ask Miller to lead you to the promise land, well, he’s not good enough to do that. Just like Chauncy Billups … or Terry Porter weren’t good enough without the proper pieces.
this^ x1000
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Feb 10, 2011 7:51 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Hope this clarifies my position
Miller is a solid placeholder until the Blazers find a better option. I don’t blame him for his teams lack of PO wins. Simply pointing out that he’s never carried a team into the 2nd round, and at 35 its extremely unlikely he starts now.
Maybe people should be more frustrated by the fact that I think the Blazers supporting cast isnt very good, not that I think its PG is too old to lead it to success.
by SerenityNow! on Feb 10, 2011 8:12 PM PST up reply actions
the Blazer's "supporting case" has been injured
with a healthy Roy, Camby and Batum last April, Miller would have gotten off the schneid re: the post season, even without Oden and Przy
Sometimes there’s nothing a guy can do, not everybody lands in a winning situation during their pro career. I’ve made this comparison before, but it bears repeating. If James Worthy had been been drafted by the Clippers and Terry Cummings had joined the L*kers instead, Cummings would have Worthy’s rep, and vice versa
Like I wrote earlier this week, Andre was acquired to help Oden become dominant. But Greg’s been hurt so ‘Dre helped make LMA dominant, instead. That’s not a bad return for a 7M year investment, even if Portland never stays healthy enough to make it out of the first round while Miller is on the roster.
It’s not going to be easy to find ’Dre’s replacement. Paul and his front offices went over 10 years between acquiring Strickland and Miller and I hope it’s not going to be 10 more seasons of watching mediocre (or worse) PG play before they eventually find somebody who can hold Andre’s jock.
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Feb 10, 2011 8:39 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Rod Strickland is an excellent comp for Miller's career value actually
People forget how good Strickland was during his peak. Not only was he an excellent assist man, but he was an excellent rebounding PG and excellent defender. From 93-94’ to 98-99’, Strickland’s PER was between 19.1-21.6 and between 90-91’ to 97-98’ his DWS was 2.9-3.3. He was also near the league lead in steals averaging around 2/game. And just like Miller, he couldn’t hit a 3-pointer to save his life. He got all his bucket driving to the hoop and in the mid range game.
But with Strickland, you got all the baggage, from drug suspension to gun violations to injury. All in all however, Miller’s career value is roughly the same as Strickland right now.
Strickland and Sabonis
there was some sweet passing between those 2, back in the day
Rod could work his way to the basket and squeeze a lay-in up and in through the arms of a forest of defenders better than any 6’3 guy I’ve ever seen. Miller is similar, but ’Dre uses the pump fake. (Effective shooting range for both players = 17 feet and in)
I just don’t think all Blazer fans appreciate how rare good PG play has been for this franchise, and how it hard it is to replace ‘em. Fortunately, it looks like ’Dre is going to be around until the end of this season, at least. Then we’ll see if he makes it through the month of June as a member of the Blazers, or not
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Feb 12, 2011 5:11 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It would be assinine for the Blazers to drop Miller
at $7.8 per next season for nothing. I’ve already stated the reasons why this is the case, plus he may have another 2 or 3 good years ahead of him. I’m all for drafting the next PGOTF either this year or next, and seeing if Armon makes the grade. But declining the option on Miller – a player with a 19.0 PER for cheap – is ridiculous. That is unless they can swing some sort of multi player trade but then you create other holes in your roster and it becomes a different animal then. Miller has been the best performing free agent of the 09’-10’ class.
by zeusmith on Feb 12, 2011 5:32 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
i think Larue meant we might trade Miller in June
agree with you completely that not picknig up his option would be stupid
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
this^
it will be tempting for Cho to use Andre’s vitual EC to improve the team’s draft position in June. But if he doesn’t he’ll certainly pick up Miller’s option for 2011-2012
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
derek fisher
must be about the same age as Andre, if not older. He just happens to have the best supporting cast in the NBA
exactly
thanks for saying this. Also, from above, which was used as evidence why he can’t:
He has only once played for a team that has won 50 games…
Which proves he’s spent his career playing for teams that were low seeds, and therefore were not supposed to win 1st round playoff series. Miller is absolutely good enough to be the PG on a deep playoff team. So long as he’s your 3rd or 4th best player. If he’s 1 or 2, the team is just probably not good enough as a whole. That’s not an indictment of Miller, who is certainly MUCH better than some of the PGs who have won titles in the past decade or so.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Good post about 'Dre
I agree ’Dre has a lot of upsides, and I think that he and Camby were much bigger trade acquisitions than most people realize. We would be hard pressed to acquire a better PG for less, and we would not be likely to replace all that ’Dre brings to the table even if we gave up quite a bit more than $10 mil. Even so, I agree that we would have a really difficult time acquiring those elite PGs who are worth it. (Why would a team give up a proven elite PG?)
by Matthews vs Roy... Fight! on Feb 10, 2011 1:16 PM PST reply actions
Yeah if we wanna get an elite PG
The only way I realistically see it is if we go through the draft and bring in an excellent pg assistant coach, Nate has proven he can’t develop pgs. And when discussing the draft, we either have to strike it rich and grab our on Rondo, or tank/trade up to ensure we get a quality prospect.
We're blessed to have Miller here and for reasonable money to boot
Miller currently has a 18.9 PER, which is about 2 or so per away from an All-Star PG. It’s even better than Rondo’s, which is currently at 18.5 PER. It’s also the third highest PER of Miller’s career going back to his Cleveland years. He’s playing great.
Defense is pretty solid too. He’s currently at 1.6 Defensive Win Shaes (DWS) and has been between 2.4 – 2.9 DWS every year since he left the Clippers. That’s solid average to slightly above, and it puts Miller in the same category on defense as Deron Williams, Jameer Nelson and Derek Fisher.
And to all those who say he can’t shoot, well neither can some other elite PG’s like Tony Parker and Rajon Rondo. Hell, Rondo can’t even hit free throws (56 FT% this season, 62% career). It hasn’t stopped those teams from winning championships just like it hasn’t stopped Dennis Johnson, Avery Johnson or Maurice Cheeks from winning championships either. It’s a total myth that you need an PG to be a outside hooter to win championships; sure it helps, but what’s matter most is the totality of the player’s all around game, and Miller has a very good one.
The only reason he hasn’t won a playoff series is he’s been stuck behind hoser teams his whole career. The only decent team Miller has ever played for prior to Portland – Denver – which he helped turn around from the doldrums along with Carmelo Anthony, didn’t win a playoff series either with Iverson in there and only won 2 playoff series since Miller left (2 series wins 08-09).
by zeusmith on Feb 10, 2011 2:39 PM PST reply actions 5 recs
basketball would be slightly more interesting with outside hooters...
Jeff Pendergraph:
FGM - 3
FGA - 111
Min - 30
Reb - 10
by Tofu Anonymous on Feb 12, 2011 9:25 AM PST up reply actions
I don't disagree
I think Miller will be good for 14 and 7 for 3 more seasons, plenty of time to see if Armon or Williams can develop, I think Patty could become a nice change of pace back up but that’s his ceiling. I would be willing to trade Miller for Devon Harris but I don’t see the Prokherovs making that move.
In lieu of a deal to bring a comparable talent to Dre to the team keep him and pick up the option.
My one worry is that the team seems to have 3 nice #3 scoring options in Miller, Matthews, and Batum, but no true #2 scoring option. I’m skeptical of Wes becoming a consistent #2 scoring option but I have to keep reminding myself that Wes is only a 2nd year player so I very well might be wrong. I’d like to see Wes become a more consistent scorer he seems to get his 16 point avg by getting 28 points one game and 4 the next.
P.S. I assume that Roy is not part of Portland’s future I think his contract will be bought out similar to what happened in the last CBA where teams could buy out 1 bad contract without it counting against the cap.
Miller is a middle of the road PG
You are right that the team will have a difficult time improving on him without moving a major asset. In terms of who is better than him (either now or in potential), you forgot Rose, Parker, Curry, Tyreke, Wall, and Calderon
Miller is better than middle of the road
just look at what happened to Philly last year they went from a .500 playoff team to one of the 5 worst teams in the league. Miller is a very good but not great PG.
by Biph on Feb 10, 2011 3:39 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Miller is a very good but not great PG
Exactly. Honestly the blazers are doing pretty well at the PG position. The only question is how long Miller can continue producing at this level. I say 2 years maybe 3. Thats long enough that it will overlap with our “last chance” for Oden.
Miller lobs to a front court of Aldridge and Oden.
Holy cow, he could just throw the ball in the general area of the board and we’d be getting oops haha.
miller is a better PG than calderon
he is also better RIGHT now at running a team, then Tyreke, Curry, or Wall. Though obviously those guys are much younger, more talented in many areas, and have more upside, which makes them more valuable.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Calderon can't sniff Miller's jock
And not only that, he’s one of the worst defensive PG’s in the NBA. He’s probably not a bad as Nash, but it’s pretty close. Incidentally, I checked Nash’s defensive Win Shares today and he’s the only player I’ve ever seen who actually had a negative DWS in a season (-0.1 last year with Dallas 03’-04’).
Calderon currently has a 0.5 DWS and actually had a 0.0 DWS both in his last year AND rookie year. Yikes!
by zeusmith on Feb 10, 2011 6:55 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He's certainly better than many of the options presented.
The Brooks idea has had me scratching my head for sure.
Brandon said, when asked, Should we keep him [of andre], "Thats not a Question" .....
Brandon is my brother in law so don’t get it twisted :D (not like our brandon, a diffrent brandon but it sounded cool to begin with.)
The Faith don't panic, the Faith freaks out, burns out small farms and villages in the name of the Faith.
Let's do a quick analysis of NBA PG's shall we?
PER …………………………………………….Win Shares
Paul 25.4……………………………………………10.9
Westbrook 24.0……………………………………6.1
Nash 23.3……………………………………………6.0
Rose 22.9…………………………………………..7.5
Williams 22.4……………………………………….6.7
Parker 20.6…………………………………………6.2
Curry 19.9…………………………………………..4.1
Miller 18.9………………………………………….4.5
Billups 18.5…………………………………………5.0
Rondo 18.5…………………………………………4.6
Sessions 18.3………………………………………2.5
Harris 17.9………………………………………….3.3
Felton 17.4………………………………………… 4.0
Davis 17.0…………………………………………..2.0
Augustin 16.9………………………………………5.2
Calderon 16.4……………………………………..2.5
Collison 16.2……………………………………….2.8
Ridnour 15.8……………………………………….2.9
Jennings 15.8 (32 games)
Udrih 15.6……………………………………………4.5
Nelson 15.5…………………………………………4.5
Conley 15.3…………………………………………4.2
Wall 15.3…………………………………………….1.3
Lowry 14.9………………………………………….3.4
Holiday 14.9………………………………………..2.9
Kidd 14.8……………………………………………4.0
Bibby 11.6…………………………………………..3.0
Fisher 9.4……………………………………………2.3
Miller is currently 8th in PER and tied for sixth in Win Shares – that’s pretty damn good production for $7.2M/year with the possibility of going year-to-year after next (not clogging payroll space). It makes all the sense in the world to pick up Miller’s 2011 option and ride him year to year thereafter. When he’s done as a starting PG, which may not be for 2 or 3 years, he could make a valuable backup PG before the end beckons.
We have a fantastic situation with Miller in that he’s cost effective, won’t demand long term money, and allows us to take our time to find the right PG to transition to in the future. It even allows us to look for a big man in the draft next year if we choose to address more pressing needs. Why some people want to pick up another 4 years of Harris’ contract at over $10M per for less production makes no sense to me.
by zeusmith on Feb 10, 2011 7:52 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
great list
honestly, who would you rather have on that list? Any of the guys above him, and Rondo below him are either completely unobtainable, or will cost far too much in other assets. Many of the guys below him as well.
Seriously, look at the list. Who on it could we actually realistically acquire without overpaying? And would they be an upgrade or provide any long term answer? I see Felton, Udrih, Nelson as obtainable. Maybe 1 or 2 others. Those are lateral moves at best
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
honestly, who would you rather have on that list? Any of the guys above him, and Rondo below him are either completely unobtainable, or will cost far too much in other assets.
That’s why the situation with Andre is ideal. Not only is he a Top 10 PG, we don’t have to dish out Matthews or Batum (+) just to obtain… another Top 10 PG. I say we ride Dre until he can’t ride no more. And at this pace, that might not be until he’s 37 (3 years). Nash is still playing at AS level, and he’s turning 37 in a few days, and Stockton played until the age of 40. The thing they all had in common was they played in a cerebral and controlled style which lead to extended health. It’s certainly possible.
I still would move Dre if the right deal came along though. But the Blazers will never get anything
close to equal value because of age. So it makes no sense. The one possibility I might explore would be to trade for Session and Hickson. We could get a PGOTF AND a young legit PF. But barring something unforseen like that there’s no way we’re getting equal value for Dre unless it’s in combination with someone else.
There will be some Blazer fans who might have a meltdown if they have to watch 'Dre for another season
but I’m not one of them
With Roy’s status up-for-grabs, there should be no rush to flip ‘Dre. He’s currently not in great demand but his NBA value is holding steady. The Blazers would be back in the lottery without Miller and if Paul doesn’t realize that, he should
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Feb 10, 2011 8:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I was really happy when I found out the Blazers got Miller....
I’d gone to the game where he basically on his own..with Iguadala…TORCHED the Blazers…I was thinking….THEY ARE ON A BACK TO BACK….how can they be DOING this?
And then all of the nonsense about players earning the starting positions…and Andre EARNING his…yet not getting it…and then Andre finally getting the start but not playing at the END of games…and then the Roy stuff…..and the “he doesn’t fit” stuff….
and his finally getting to start and finish games….and PLAYING EVERY GAME on an injury riddled team….and Oden loving him…and LMA playing the best he’s ever played with him…and Andre raising his arms….SHY Andre…raising his arms to get the crowd to cheer for LMA after LMA made his CAREER HIGH FREE THROW…..
Andre is all about winning and all about the team….
I just don’t see Brandon doing this for someone else….
the guy is GOLDEN in my book.
by Natsthecat on Feb 10, 2011 9:50 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Dre is gangsta!
OSU '06
Trade for Gerald Wallace!!
by TyboOSU on Feb 10, 2011 10:43 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Agreed except concerning the part about Roy being able to reinvent himself as a Dre-type
People tend to only look at the effect of Roy’s knees on his offensive game. But it’s at the other end of the court that his disability is most notable. To defend, you must react in response to what someone else does. In order to do that, you simply must have stable knees.
Unless they come up with a surgical fix for what ails Brandon Roy, there’s no “reinventing” that’s going to keep him from being a defensive liability everytime he’s on the floor. And contrary to popular belief, defense is just as important as offense in the game of basketball.
Of course, I could be wrong about Roy’s future as a hoopster. I certainly hope I am…
I still believe in Greg Oden. The Blazers' medical staff? Not so much.
I'd change my handle to "bringback'09," but I'm too lazy.
I feel the same way. I think Roy has had trouble moving laterally for awhile now.
Due to his knees. Whenever the Blazers are doing well against good teams I say to the person next to me….“this team is going…HEY WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH THE BLAZERS…they expect us to work against FIVE players on the floor playing defense?”…
I totally agree
His durability is second to none, and with all of the injuries on this roster, to have ONE guy, the veteran point guard of all people, to only miss one game (well technically two if you count the game where he left 2 mins in thanks to the stomach flu, at least he gave it a go) the whole season knocks furiously on wood so far, I think its honestly the key factor as to why we even have anywhere close to a 28-24 record. Aldridge’s sudden epiphany year is a big part of it too, but I know that without Miller we’d be hurting a lot more then we really are right now.
He’s not the all-star caliber point guard that Nash, Paul, or Rose is. He’s not the most flashy player, but he plays with true grit every night. He’s greatly consistent night in and night out stat wise (and occasionally bursts that bubble to our advantage), very rarely misses a game, and is a great teammate. He has a very high basketball IQ and is a smart passer. Personally, I like the fact that he doesn’t chuck up 3’s because between Rudy, Batum, Matthews (jeez thats enough right there), Roy when he gets back, and Mills, we’ve got enough 3 point threats in my opinion. We need Andre because he can put our 3-goggles makers in the position to score. Plus, as we’ve all seen, Miller is certainly not afraid to shoot the 3 if it’s available (and if he’s hot, he’s hot). His moves on offense to get to the basket are awesome, and I love seeing him getting it going against opposing point guards, backing them down and either breaking their ankles for a easy layin or doing his signature baseline jumpshot that he’s pretty accurate at.
I see no reason why we can’t sign him a year-to-year contract and just let him surf the wave until he’s ready to retire. I just can’t say that he’s gotten worse over the time we’ve had him, honestly, I think he’s only gotten better. And on a team that is still more or less “young” in a way (maybe not so much in age anymore but definitely in going deep in the playoffs), where consistency is hard to find, you’ve got to have it in your point guard. I think he brings consistency, poise, and leadership to a team that has never needed it more.
Will he be here by the end of the month? I have no idea, but unless Cho sees something really really good for the taking, I’m not sure having him moved is the smartest idea. Unless we go for a younger point guard that has great development already and still has good upside, I really hope we keep him. That’s my 2 cents.
by Twise95 on Feb 11, 2011 3:29 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Forgot to mention
Mr. Rudy Fernandez as another 3-goggles maker.
I likle this post
Maybe because it reminds me of one I put up earlier in the season. Yours is far more detailed though.
Dunk
by Billy Ray Bates on Feb 11, 2011 7:08 AM PST reply actions
IF IT'S A. BROOKS, I'LL RETIRE MY NBA FANDOME UNTIL SEATTLE GETS A TEAM AGAIN
Ray Allen has been talked about a lot for his durability and what not. Ray and Andre have this in common… ROUTINES. what, Miller takes daily naps, stretches and eats sensible meals (miller is NOT going to be a fat ex-nba player like the rest, mark my words)
If we like him now, that’s what we’re going to keep on getting. Sorry Broy, but i think miller is going to be playing better than Brandon three years from now. he’s 6’2" like a normal person, he’ll be agile for awhile. When he came here he said he’d be willing to play off the bench, HE JUST WANTS TO WIN. Renew his contract in a year (he’ll be 36)at a good price reduction. PGOTF will manifest himself and please dont let it be Aaron Brooks.
by johnshmidt on Feb 11, 2011 9:21 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
agree with the
Agree with the premise here. Andre may have several good years left in him, that gives us quite a bit of time to find the long-term PG of the future, in the meantime you can’t beat him for a medium-term PG of the future.
Also- take a look at the best teams in the NBA- They are full of old guys. Boston, San Antonio, Lakers.
by LanceS on Feb 12, 2011 7:23 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Miller is a fabulous Blazer. The problem is we have no backup.
Portland’s method of drafting PGs has always been to look for bargains in the late first round (or later). That’s not how you get good NBA points, with few exceptions.
wha??
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Feb 12, 2011 2:51 PM PST reply actions
I do like Armon long term though, of course.
He has promise.
But this team would be a lot more efficient with a competent backup for Andre. Patty is a great character guy but he shoots under 30% from 3 and can’t run an offense. He’s not the answer…
wha??
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Feb 12, 2011 2:52 PM PST up reply actions
the 2 times they had a chance to draft a quality PG early
2005 they traded down and drafted Webster/Jack instead of CP3 and D-Will
because they had drafted Telfair in the lottery the year before (face palm)
In 2009, KP had 4 draft picks and drafted Claver when he could have moved up and picked a PG (Collison, etc) earlier
but he didn’t, because he had drafted Bayless in the lottery, the year before
Here’s hoping Cho has better results. It’s tough though, because the owner wants to draft a PG every June, and Paul’s track record has been abysmal in this area
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
PA might have a reasonable opinion about what he wants his team to look like,
but I have doubts about his ability to build a team and hire the right people to get it done. The most confusing example of PA at work is his unorganized and questionable approach to the 2010 draft…. this was truly an open door for second guessing and tortured logic…..My point is; ……the failure of the franchise to secure their future by not being on the same page. Nate demanded shooters to support Roy and (lame duck) KP went into the 2010 draft as representing this particular request= Babbitt……I believe they lost an opportunity to get Eric Bledsoe from Kentucky, who IMO was the second best point guard in the draft.(hiding behind John Wall)
This guy will be a starting NBA point guard.
Chances will always be lost, like in the years before (you stated), when you don’t have a solid plan or identity. The Blazer’s chose to put all their eggs in one basket and that potentially dangerous value has cost them dearly in more ways than one.
You simply have to have a workable identity to build your team from and Portland has been stuck in the “winged rotation experiment.” (of course this was mostly due to the myth of the one dimensional offense that supported Roy and no one else)
Up and running.........and almost defending.
this is my one constant beef with you larue
you have repeatedly said “when he could have moved up and picked a PG (Collison, etc) earlier” We have NO evidence that this trade was available to us. None. we had already moved up a couple spots as is – maybe that was the best we could do? You can’t just waive a magic wand and make some other team trade with you.
Perhaps we tried like heck to move up a bit more, but just couldn’t get any higher, or the price was way too high? you state this collison line repeatedly like it’s a certain failure. fact is, we just don’t know what KP “could” have done in that regard. if he had a solid offer at a fair price to move up and didn’t – then I agree with you. but we have ZERO evidence that this was the case.
Therefore, it’s fair to say “If only we could have moved up another spot in the 2009 draft to get Collison”, but it’s not quite fair to state that “we could have moved up…” as if it’s some undeniable fact that this was an option and we turned down the opportunity.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
the reason I mention it
is that Wheels reported on draft day that KP had some deals that fell through. Now, nobody is going to say what those deals were, but I remember hearing that Portland was interested in Hansbrough—and I was relieved that “that” deal fell through. My take at the time was that I didn’t think that Portland was very interested in Collison, because of Bayless (similar to Telfair’s presence “preventing” PatterNash from selecting CP3 or D-Will in ‘05.) It’s an organizational flaw that was repeated twice, that’s what I’m pointing out
Using 20/20 hindsight, if KP and Allen weren’t considering drafting Collison in 2009 then they “should” have been. (They drafted Mills at 55 so it wasn’t like they weren’t interested in adding any other PGs) They just balked at pursuing one in the first round (or, they tried and failed) and settled on Claver. Either way, it’s an epic fail. My other theory is that the reason why KP’s draft day trade attempts fell through was because he had pissed off so many GMs that few of them wanted to work with him, anymore. I have no proof for this either, just anecdotal evidence that comes from more sources than just A-Woj
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Dre is PGOTN
PG of the Now… Dude is awesome… One of tih’s worst calls… He is the heart and soul of this team, and is one of the prime reasons for LMA’s ascendence. (Not just the lob passes, but leading the charge to annoint LMA as an all-star, and leader of the team. When LMA through that party for Dre after his suspension, their relationship, and the team’s success, reached new levels.)
And speaking of dudes that most bailed on: how about freakin Rudy, huh? Last 3-4 games, he’s making me forget all about Brandon… Oh, and I’ll have to dig up that old post I made earlier this year, when I mentioned I’d made a bet saying that Rudy would have more career points than BRoy from this point forward in their careers…. Some of you guys really thought I was nuts… I bet not so much any more…
All we need is for Greg to get healthy, and this team can content.
How are you feeling about Armon, these days?
Sorry, I couldn’t resist. You were patting yourself on the back so hard there…someone needed to insert the needle ;^)
I’m glad to see Rudy playing well and sounding happy about his NBA career in Portland. Who knew all it would take is for Roy to leave the lineup before Fernandez was finally able to play the way he prefers? (Well, I think most of us would have guessed it, since the team’s style of play has been centered around Brandon for the last 3-4 years, and there were good reasons for that…)
Still, I think a Roy-Rudy backcourt could work in small portions in the middle of each half, when the starters need a rest and the bench needs their scoring. Fernandez could keep moving off the ball and Roy could find him similar to the way he found Blake open behind the arc, in season’s past. Sure, they’d be weak defensively but that’s what a zone is for, to keep weak perimeter defenders from being isolated and blown past by good penetrators.
I hope we see it, because the starting lineup ain’t broke and they really don’t need Roy in there at the beginning of each half. The end-game lineup can be decided based on the score and which players are getting it done, on any given night.
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Agree...and hopefully u wrote in time to keep visionary2 from falling over.
I was going to ask V2 what he thinks will happen with Greg Oden…since the prediction of Rudy over Roy seems to be one many would not have seen coming….depending on HOW old the post is…
made earlier this year
Was Roy already injured…had Rudy already said he likes it here in Portland?
Waaay back in Sept 2nd
Rudy was, by all intents, headed back to Spain (and, lest you think I’m too full of myself, yes, I thought he was gone, too).
Not sure if this will come through right, but here is the link:
http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/9/2/1666490/my-bet-rudy-will-have-more-points
But the reason for the original bet with my buddy was that I just didn’t think Roy was going to last. I said at the time I’d be glad to be wrong, and I still would be… But I bet if I put that same poll up again, I’d get a much different result than “no way, Roy by a mile” getting 44% of the vote..
As far as Oden is concerned.. I believe that he and LMA will both be on the same all-star team in 2013. I believe that Greg will be a dominant defensive force, and give the Blazers the best 1-2 big man punch in the game. I believe Greg will average 14, 11, and 3 over a 15-year career… Howzat for stickin my neck out?? (Of course, there at least as good odds on Rudy will score more then Greg in his career too, but I don’t even want to think about that..)
“But this team would be a lot more efficient with a competent backup for Andre. Patty is a great character guy but he shoots under 30% from 3 and can’t run an offense. He’s not the answer…”
I think it is way premature to write off Patty as a 3rd string rather than 2nd string PG. But I agree he is far from proving himself to be a backup NBA PG so far.
As to 3 pointers I think he has the potential to increase that percentage a good deal. But again, the proof is in the pudding.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
NBA Playoffs Content Module
Related FanPosts on Blazer's Edge
Related FanShots on Blazer's Edge
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Behind the Box Score, where the Boston Celtics are moving on to the conference finals
- NBA Playoffs Fan Fiction: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
- The Indiana Pacers? Gone till November
- Shaquille O’Neal is in a Chinese beer commercial, too (VIDEO)
- ‘Deep Thoughts’ and Cheap Thoughts: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
