Stein: Blazers' Adjusted Offer To Greg Oden Worth $1.5 Million?
Marc Stein of ESPN.com reports that Portland Trail Blazers center Greg Oden may have accepted a 1-year offer worth $1.5 million after the team announced he suffered a "setback" in his most recent medical examinations.
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Sources with knowledge of the deal told ESPN.com this week that the 23-year-old agreed to take his salary down all the way to $1.5 million when the parties mutually agreed to negotiate a new deal earlier this month independent of Portland's original qualifying offer. Translation?
If $1.5 million is a figure Oden was willing to consent to, down from the $8.9 million qualifying offer Portland extended to him before the lockout to prevent Oden from becoming an unrestricted free agent, this is sadly shaping up to be another lost season for the injury-tortured big man picked ahead of Kevin Durant in the 2007 draft.
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Prior to the setback and renegotiation, Oden was expected to sign a $8.8 million qualifying offer tendered to him by the Blazers in June.
Blazers Acting GM Chad Buchanan has refused to comment multiple times on the structure and size of Oden's renegotiated deal.
Team president Larry Miller announced the following on December 9.
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The contract agreed upon today comes after both sides mutually agreed to negotiate a new deal that is independent of the qualifying offer.
"Following Greg's most recent physical examination and evaluation, we've determined that he has suffered a setback," said Trail Blazers President Larry Miller. "We're hopeful, but less confident that he will return to the court this season. We've stood by Greg from the day he was drafted and we continue to do so now with this agreement."
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Buchanan singled out Oden's representatives for praise in handling the new deal, which was completed on the first day of the free agency period.
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"After getting the results of the MRI last night, we had extensive talks with the doctor in Vail, our team doctor evaluated the MRI, we spoke with Greg's representatives. I think they were very, very classy about the situation. They understood our concerns. We were able to work together on an agreement we felt was fair on both sides. I'd like to give a lot of credit out to Greg's representatives for going the direction they did. I think we came to a conclusion that's fair to both sides."
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Hat tip to tipster Jakob, and kennetha and merseykersey who got there first in the FanShots.
-- Ben Golliver | benjamin.golliver@gmail.com | Twitter
5 months ago
Ben Golliver
230 comments
0 recs |
Comments
Wow!
I figured about half …$4mill or so
"What began as a credible protest against bank bailouts, crony capitalism and the like has, in large measure, been hijacked by crazies and criminals,"
Any truth to the rumor that this is what Steve Jobs said when he uttered his last words?
“Oh wow. Oh wow. Oh wow.”
Too soon?
saw, not said
Way to ruin a perfectly good tasteless joke.
I kind of got it when you said "said"
Now I don’t.
by jamon51 on Dec 30, 2011 2:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
So...
Greg will still be making $22,727 per game he misses this year. Awesome. Guess it could be worse, right? RIGHT?!?
by Mister Hooligan on Dec 30, 2011 9:48 AM PST reply actions
Yeah..it could be 6 times worse
as in it could have been $8.9 Mil
"What began as a credible protest against bank bailouts, crony capitalism and the like has, in large measure, been hijacked by crazies and criminals,"
by 92wastheyear on Dec 30, 2011 9:50 AM PST up reply actions
And both will play the same minutes this year
It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong. I am NOT a big man.
by SGT Lenny on Dec 30, 2011 10:43 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
zing! good one.
A displaced Sonics fan that has somehow emerged as a Blazers fan (and loves it).
by anitachampionship on Dec 30, 2011 11:02 AM PST up reply actions
lolz more than i make in a year for one game to sit behind the bench...a mad mad world...
OSU '06
GForce Crash Wallace FTW!
Where do I sign up?
I’d like to get paid $1.5M to exercise for a year!
First,
carry an NCAA D1 team to the championship game of the Final 4. Next, bully Horford and Noah, two future NBA bigs, in and around the paint. Oh, you also need to have incredible size, and be one of the most efficient players in the league in your limited action. Getting injured is actually the “easy” part.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Dec 30, 2011 9:54 AM PST up reply actions 11 recs
All right then;)
GO GET EM’.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Dec 30, 2011 10:07 AM PST up reply actions
Can you pull a qualifying offer?
The only way I can see this going down is if Portland threatened to pull the qualifying offer. Portland basically paid Greg 1.5 mil to retain his bird rights. Not a good sign regarding Greg’s ability to get on the court this season. My guess is that Greg’s team didn’t think anyone else would offer him a contract considering his “setback.”
You can't "pull" the QO once the player signs it.
This is a good sign that Greg’s agent and the Blazers are on the same page. Too bad they couldn’t extend him for 3 years at 1.5 million a year though…
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Dec 30, 2011 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
Did Greg ever sign it though?
There were reports that he was going to… but perhaps it was pulled before he got the chance.
by Boomshakalaka on Dec 30, 2011 10:00 AM PST up reply actions
No. He obviously didn't.
It must have been “on the table” pending positive results from his rehab, which were obviously disappointing to both sides.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Dec 30, 2011 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
I just find the negotiating tactics here to be interesting.
You would think that Greg’s team would have had the flexibility to sign the QO at any point post lockout. If you know you are going to sign with the blazers why not do it prior to the physical? Seems like a major blunder that cost Greg 7+ mil.
Greg, if you are reading this. I am available to represent you. :)
by Boomshakalaka on Dec 30, 2011 10:05 AM PST up reply actions
I think a pre-existing medical condition voids the QO
Storyteller said something about it when this story broke. It basically allowed the blazers to pull the offer off the table and replace it with a smaller one. I don’t believe it was just a matter of who signs what first, and I also thought the first day of FA was the first day Greg could sign the QO.
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain_4.html#ixzz1IE4sPu16
by Tyler Durrden on Dec 30, 2011 10:10 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
this.
once the medical thing negated the QO, Oden had two choices:
1) sign nothing, sit out they year, and be a RFA next summer (assuming Portland again offered a QO)
2) sign for much less, rehab, maybe play, and be a UFA next summer.
"But if Ding Dongs and prime rib were the path to NBA pivot stardom we'd all be wearing the uniform." -Dave
The first day of any signings was a Friday
The exam took place on the Thursday before…
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Dec 30, 2011 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
That's an excellent point.
Perhaps someone can shed some light on what, exactly, the QO looks like when it is offered to a player. Is a stack of papers Greg’s agent carries around in a brief case? How did the new CBA affect the QO and how it could be “offered”. The Blazers can “pull” it at any time, of course. I’m guessing the exams were simply part of the deal making process and it ended poorly for Greg’s side.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Dec 30, 2011 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
Howie Mandel is in every one of these negotiations
A few briefcases are set up with numbers on them, and there are too many commercial time-outs.
It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong. I am NOT a big man.
by SGT Lenny on Dec 30, 2011 10:47 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
PA had someone store the "1.5" briefcase in the freezer,
obviously. You always pick the cold one. Oldest big man related trick in the book!
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Dec 30, 2011 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
Greg was reported to have turned down other offers also.
Because of his like for Portland.
Regardless of what he can bring us in the future as far as how great, he is big, strong and capable of being a game changer. Just his rebounding when Camby needs a rest will win many games.
With all that and Greg’s appreciation of the Blazers we have a winner.
hg
I didn't hear about any other offers?
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain_4.html#ixzz1IE4sPu16
by Tyler Durrden on Dec 30, 2011 10:28 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
His agent said there were many offers
But they were not actively pressuring any offers because of Greg wanting to play for Portland.
hg
by BBK on Dec 30, 2011 2:43 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
he is big, strong
You are only as strong as your weakest ligament.
by FrederickT1 on Dec 30, 2011 10:48 AM PST up reply actions
There was never any reports of Oden turning down other offers that I saw.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 30, 2011 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
Nobody can sign anything during a lockout
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Dec 30, 2011 10:23 AM PST up reply actions
On the bright side
At least Greg hit that CRAZY game-winning shot against Dallas last night. Wait…what?
Let it go. It's long past time to move on from that.
by Timmay! on Dec 30, 2011 9:59 AM PST up reply actions 13 recs
+92
"What began as a credible protest against bank bailouts, crony capitalism and the like has, in large measure, been hijacked by crazies and criminals,"
by 92wastheyear on Dec 30, 2011 10:01 AM PST up reply actions
Jokes are better when they are funny...
#7... GO BLAZERS!!!
by Ilikeemall on Dec 30, 2011 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 7 recs
Hehe.
It’s funny, in an “I’m laughing so hard I’m crying” sort of way. Wait. No. I’m actually just crying. Never mind. It’s not funny.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Dec 30, 2011 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
i feel your pain.
A displaced Sonics fan that has somehow emerged as a Blazers fan (and loves it).
by anitachampionship on Dec 30, 2011 11:04 AM PST up reply actions
I'm not cryin
It’s just rainin… on my face…
by Batumshakalaka on Dec 30, 2011 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
had Greg been playing
His team wouldn’t have been down 2 with 1.4 to go!
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Dec 30, 2011 10:24 AM PST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
Keep hope alive there sammy !
wa wa wa wa wa wa is all I hear anymore :(
just win baby !
by FrenchieFan on Dec 30, 2011 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
I definitely believe in Greg's tools and ability
I don’t know if I ever expect him to play another game as a Blazer however, or another game period for that matter. I’m in the very numb “believe it when I see it phase”
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Dec 30, 2011 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think Greg is in it for the money
At least not this year. With the setback, you gotta think Greg wants to prove his worth rather than collect the huge paycheck.
by JMLakaShotCaller on Dec 30, 2011 9:57 AM PST via mobile reply actions
I'm guessing Greg signed what was available,
as no team would offer the full QO to a player who isn’t going to play this season.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Dec 30, 2011 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
well, I certainly think he could have got more
this strongly shows a loyalty to Portland in my mind, and I appreciate it as a fan.
Hard to negotiate for more when you don't really have a leg to stand on
Thats how you do it folks!
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain_4.html#ixzz1IE4sPu16
by Tyler Durrden on Dec 30, 2011 12:23 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Losing one leg, means he's down to two!
huzzah for dead horse tropes.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
by mittsabishy on Dec 30, 2011 3:15 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
If Oden really took that kind of money, then his "setback" is probably more serious than anyone is letting on.
For sure he will be out most if not all season then, and his future thereafter must be cloudy as well. I am not sure at this point if he is even worth signing to a longer contract for the future years.
Of course he is. As long as there is a chance
Greg can play at some point, you have to lock him up.
We have a decent, first-round fodder team right now. With Greg, we’re contenders. IMO, it’s that simple.
by KevinRileyFTW on Dec 30, 2011 10:05 AM PST up reply actions
Exactly.
There’s not much optimism for Greg’s future. I don’t buy into the idea that Greg “gave” the home team a sweetheart deal. His side was dealing from a position of weakness, to say the least.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Dec 30, 2011 10:06 AM PST up reply actions
Size of the contract raises my concern, too - for Oden's short term prospects
But only an actual diagnosis would have any bearing on Oden’s future…perhaps if this info is true, and now public knowledge, the Blazers will end the media blackout and give us a useful update.
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Dec 30, 2011 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
Not sure anyone is picking up the signifigance of this
I had my doubts before, but this basically guarentees he isn’t playing this year.
You don’t take a 600% paycut without good cause.
The 1.5 is a token offer so that he remains under contract and retain rights.
Clarification: *Portland retains
the same rights.
by KevinRileyFTW on Dec 30, 2011 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
Technically, it's an 83% paycut.
If it was 600%, Greg would be giving the Blazers money.
The cake was a lie.
by xedubx on Dec 30, 2011 3:03 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
wow that is crazy.
and almost guarantees he is leaving in my mind. Seems like he could have gotten a much much better deal had he just turned down the QO. But then he knows Portland would have matched almost anything.
yep
take the 1.5 and be unrestricted next summer. otherwise he would have gotten nothing and still been an RFA.
for the Blazers, I presume it was about retaining Bird rights on the cheap
"But if Ding Dongs and prime rib were the path to NBA pivot stardom we'd all be wearing the uniform." -Dave
But aren't Bird Rights essentially worthless at this point?
I thought it only impacted what the max you could offer is, and he won’t be getting anywhere near the max now.
by Free Bayless on Dec 30, 2011 11:41 AM PST up reply actions
Not at all
If you have bird rights you can pay someone any amount you want up to the max, regardless of cap or exceptions. Its always good leverage to have, including the solidity to use it in sign and trades
"But if Ding Dongs and prime rib were the path to NBA pivot stardom we'd all be wearing the uniform." -Dave
by douglast on Dec 30, 2011 11:48 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Scratching my head on this one. Lose his Bird Rights? How?
If the Blazers hadn’t make the 2nd offer independent of the QO, then Oden would have remained a RFA because they made the QO. Then if Oden couldn’t sign the QO (because he knew he couldn’t play) he remains a RFA, but the Blazers still have Bird Rights. They still have the option of later making a new offer.
So it seems the Blazers had little to gain by making him the 2nd offer because he now becomes a UFA next summer. i.e. why didn’t they just let him sit out this season without a contract? They still keep his Bird Rights and he would still be a RFA.
The only explanation I see is that Oden would have signed the QO and fought the Blazers if they objected. In which case if Oden won (I guess it would have to go to court) then the Blazers would have paid the $8.8M and Oden would become a UFA. i.e. the Blazers would lose more money if that happened.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 30, 2011 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
I don't understand your comment.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 30, 2011 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
The Blazers had very little to gain by offering the 2nd contract that made him a UFA.
So why did they do that?
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 30, 2011 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry
What I meant was that it sounds like the negotiations were fast and friendly, not like Oden had something hanging over the Blazers’ heads and they were forced to offer him the new contract.
Right. Oden had no leverage yet Blazers let him become a UFA. Doesn't make sense.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 30, 2011 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe they made an under the table deal to r-sign with the Blazers
once Oden shows he can play again. But allowing him to become a UFA would be a lot to risk on a handshake deal.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 30, 2011 12:50 PM PST up reply actions
It reduces the cap hold on Oden next summer. But they are still
way over the cap when you include all the cap holds. It could give them a little more flexibility by renouncing all of the other free agents except Greg (thereby keeping his Bird Rights to make him a large offer).
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 30, 2011 1:31 PM PST up reply actions
UFA's create cap holds?
are you sure about that? i thought it was only RFA’s.
and i don’t know where you get that the blazers are way over the cap next year with holds. assuming that wallace and crawford opt out ( very likely ). then they only have 24 million in contracts next year + a cap hold on Batum.
i can’t remember if Batum’s cap % is 200 or 300% or however that works but the QO is in the 3 mil range so i see cap space regardless.
There's a cap hold on all free agents unless you renounce them.
You have exceptions you can use to re-sign players when you are over the cap (Bird Rights for Oden, Early-Bird Rights for Felton, None-Bird Rights for Crawford if he opts-out – he almost surely will). You can’t go under the cap and then still use exceptions. So there are cap holds that take us over the cap unless we renounce players and then we lose their exceptions.
In Portland’s case there are lots of exceptions and cap holds because we have lots of free agents (there are even cap holds on Euro players like Joel Freeland during the summer only). We can get under the cap by renouncing our free agents, but if Wallace doesn’t opt-out (and I don’t think he will unless he has an all-star year) we will have about $42M in salary on the books plus the cap holds. So we can get under the salary cap (up to about $16M) by renouncing free agents, but if we want to re-sign them we will probably be better off not renouncing and using the exceptions. It is going to be very complex next summer because of all the free agents.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 30, 2011 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
"UFA's create cap holds?"
Yeah, cap holds are for everyone.
For example, Portland currently has a cap hold on Travis Diener.
"I Am Mine"
Batum's cap hold is 250%
which translates to $5.4 million.
And, yes, all unrenounced free agents, whether UFA’s or RFA’s create cap holds.
I was kind of alluding to
sort of a handshake deal. “We’ll give you a contract now if you sign with us next year.”
It might even work. Not everyone is as cynical as you (and I don’t mean any offense by that).
Portland would've retained his Bird rights regardless.
Greg Oden will now become a UFA next summer and bolt.
Now, whether he bolts to another team or into retirement is the question.
"I Am Mine"
Another thought. Blessing in disguise?
Already prepped to be big free agent players in summer 2012, this kind of news could drive down Greg’s market value OR have his camp (already handicapped by the inept Mike Conley Sr.) push for a 2-3 or even 1 year deal.
I’ll give Greg this. He keep its interesting.
If Greg plays some how in the playoffs....
Man this team would be a beast! I see us in the finals! I wish greg could play in the PF. Just sayin….
by Hoi on Dec 30, 2011 10:12 AM PST via mobile reply actions
lets just add DWill this offseason then resign Wallace/Oden (who will remain healthy forever)... Championship
by hoodieNation on Dec 30, 2011 10:13 AM PST up reply actions
I like the idea of grafting Wallace/Oden into one single, earthshaking hoops entity.
The only problem is, a player with Wallace’s disregard for his own safety, diving all over the place, mixed with Oden’s ability to get injured might not see much action…
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Dec 30, 2011 10:19 AM PST up reply actions
True, that's like putting Matthews and Crawford together.
And getting a guard who can’t dribble OR defend.
by Batumshakalaka on Dec 30, 2011 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
I dont get this at all
either way, Oden is a UFA next summer; signing the qualifying offer was his “right”, unless the team pulled the QO under the injury clause…
but even if that happened – how could he only got $1.5? You know every team with a mid-level in tact would sign him up.
M, period. Fresh, comma.
because he didn't want Portland to match and be locked up here long term
he takes the 1.5 and gets to call his shot next summer
"But if Ding Dongs and prime rib were the path to NBA pivot stardom we'd all be wearing the uniform." -Dave
Who's going to bid on not seeing a player on the court
I don’t think a single team without anything invested is going to throw out a 1 year offer to a player that isn’t going to play. All it get’s them is possibly an inside track on Greg as an UFA. They don’t have Bird rights, they’ve spent x million on nothin.
Portland by extending for a year, retains Bird rights and get’s a better chance at resigning Greg.
Oh, a team like NJ for instance,
or about any team that needs a center with Greg saying I want to make my career here, how about it?
Most likely
It is because other team’s GMs would prefer to let Portland take the risk and then pick him up as a FA next summer. Why would the nets show their cards by making an offer when they know Portland would have matched it if it was in the 1.5 mil range. At that point, everyone knows they are gunning for Oden, which then drives his value up. If they let Portland take the risk of wasting another $1.5 mil or more on a non-playing Oden, they get to find out next summer if he is healthy and able to play and can make him an offer at that time for a long term contract. It does not make any sense to offer Greg any sort of long term deal unless you are Portland and have great confidence that he will be able to play this year. it doesn’t make any sense for any team other than Portland to offer him a 1 year deal, full well knowing that he is not going to be on the court this year.
And as Dave says in the link above, No 7 footer with transcendent potential has ever not been given an offer by any other team. What could possibly explain this anomaly? Greg’s health. Either other teams know that his chances of playing are close to non-existent, or they know they are going to have a better chance at signing him next summer.
Clearly New jersey did not think it would do them any good to offer Greg a deal as they did not do so.
by BlazerFanFromDenver on Dec 30, 2011 1:33 PM PST up reply actions
it has been mentioned in this thread
but there is a rule about if a player cannot play during the QO season due to a preexisting medical condition, the QO cannot be accepted…or something like that.
"Say his NAME, Portland. Gerald Wallace is...awesome." -Dave, 4/9/11
Why this deal happened
For Greg Oden:
1. He obviously wasn’t receiving the kind of offers that he wanted or else he would have gone the RFA route and had Portland match.
2. He could not accept the Qualifying Offer because of prior condition
3. His setback was not serious in the sense that other people with the same condition would possibly be playing this seaon, but considering his medical history it could be just another symptom of his fragileness and the likelihood that he will never play.
For the Blazers:
For 1.5 million
1. They get potentially another center at the end of the season who can make an impact on the defensive end.
2. Bird rights to a potential decent center who is becoming an UFA. This means they can put together a reasonable offer without worrying about cap space.
We can reasonably guess that Oden’s injury is not serious enough to cause Portland to bail entirely, but serious enough considering Oden’s other history that every team in the league has doubts.
by boppitywop on Dec 31, 2011 10:55 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
good take
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain_4.html#ixzz1IE4sPu16
by Tyler Durrden on Dec 31, 2011 1:01 PM PST up reply actions
Here's another take
Maybe they are okay with being UFA. If Oden wants to play in Portland, he might take a Portland offer for LESS than another team’s offer. If he’s RFA the Blazers have to match. Could end up saving some money.
I think this means Greg is walking in the off-season
but he has a conscious and doesn’t want to rape PDX for 9 mil first. Probably feels a little bad because the organization has supported him throughout everything
I think this means we'll be getting Chris Paul
sorry, I had to
"Say his NAME, Portland. Gerald Wallace is...awesome." -Dave, 4/9/11
This was not G.O. opting to take less money as a goodwill gesture.
This was Blazers pulling the Q.O. due to change in his health status. Oden accepted the offer on the table as he had very little leverage, few or no offers and wanted the Blazers to keep Bird Rights to facilitate a bigger contract (possible S&T) next year.
by 52therim on Dec 30, 2011 9:53 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
i don't get why they're so secretive about oden
maybe it’s HIPAA rules or w/e.
but i doubt saying something about the serious nature of this injury will cause much of a stir among blazer fans, because we’re all resigned to the fact that anything he adds will only be gravy for the team. and the merchandise that he sells now (that ive seen anyway) is heavily discounted. it’s not necessarily a PR nightmare to reveal more about his situation. yet, the organization chooses to remain clandestine about it.
strange.
PHILLY!
This information would consititute bad news
But it still does not jive with Oden’s actual level of basketball activity. Somehow, the dots aren’t connecting, here.
The Blazers claim a “setback”, but the specialist cleared Oden for non-contact basketball activities – and we have confirmation from LMA that Oden has been on the court. You don’t take the court if you have a serious injury….
But, you don’t sign a $1.5M contract if you don’t have a serious injury….at least – one would think.
Plus, the front office is being extremely mysterious about this whole situation. Media blackouts are an information management tool when there is a risk of public backlash if the disseminated information proves faulty.
But, you don’t sign a $1.5M contract unless there is at least smoke….
I dunno.
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
Agreed. I have a theory.
There is some disconnect here. Here is my guess. They are giving Greg’s minor “non weight-bearing” ligament damage time to heal without surgery. The amount of activity he is currently engaged in is appropriate for his recovery from micro-fracture surgery and will not alter the ligament’s ability to heal on its own. If the ligament has not healed on its own in 6-8 weeks they will shut him down and clean it up with a surgical procedure.
by Boomshakalaka on Dec 30, 2011 10:42 AM PST up reply actions
The surgery option would also be a bizarre outcome
Asymptomatic ligament damage on the level of “fragility” shouldn’t be reparable with surgery….surgery reconnects ligaments that have torn away from bone, or sews up tears within the ligament itself…
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Dec 30, 2011 10:48 AM PST up reply actions
how about they just let him play,
and do surgery if it gives out ? Or, does that risk more damage than surgery (which be cuttin’ stuff anyway). They just need to tell us which ligament, so we can improve our prognosis !
Independent of The Qualifying Offer
Makes it sound like this new contract is NOT a Qualifying Offer. Which I think is better for The Blazers. With the qualifying offer, it simply expired and Oden became a Unrestricted. I actually think this is a better sign that Oden does want to stay in Portland.
If Oden wanted to leave? If Portland pulled the Qualifying Offer upon discovery of the setback, Oden could of simply put himself on the open market. I’m sure numerous, countless teams would of taken a 1.5 Million Dollar gamble on Oden. Oden even with a setback, is a good gamble at 1.5 Million.
The contract, actually makes me feel better about Odens commitment to Portland. Of course the setback? Unfortunately makes me unsure about Odens entire future.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
by Krang on Dec 30, 2011 10:36 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
On the bright side...
this makes it sound like the negotiation was more about keeping Oden’s bird rights intact in PDX than actually seeing him play a ton of games this year. Makes it sound like Greg might want to stay here in the future. This was also pretty freakin cheap.
In comparison
Jeff Green’s QO was voided due to his heart. Celtics have said that they’ll probably have him on board the year after.
by JMLakaShotCaller on Dec 30, 2011 10:48 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Remember. This information comes from a tweet.
This is not a verified report published in a journal or newspaper. It’s a tweet from Mark Stein, who doesn’t reveal anything about where he got the information. It’s true that this doesn’t add up with what we have heard from LMA and Greg, but that could be simply because it’s not accurate.
"You can walk away from someone who doesn’t love you. And you can walk away from someone you don’t love. But when the love is mutual," Roy said. "The hardest thing is to walk away."
RealGM's trade machine has had Oden at $1.5 million for several weeks
And they’ve been very reliable in the past when it comes to player salaries.
Porting over my thoughts from the fanshot (with errata):
Thanks to the great fanshot we got from blacknoiseNW earlier, we have good reason to suspect that Oden’s setback is probably not severe. It’s enough to delay his rehab, and it’s enough to raise question marks about Oden’s prospects to be healthy for an extended period. On it’s face, it doesn’t seem more than that.
But think about this: It was enough that by the terms of the CBA, the Blazers had the right to call attention to it, and Oden had an obligation to turn down the QO in response. That would have made Oden an immediate UFA. Just think about Oden heading into free agency with this this headline hanging over his head:
"Oden required to refuse Blazers QO for medical reasons."
The only public rumors involving wooing Oden were for the new MLE. 5m/yr over 4 years, tops… and that was before the setback. How much could he expect to pull down after the setback? Maybe a team would happilly offer him 1.5M for 1 yr, just like we did. But what other team would sign him solely to provide a lesiurely rehab? Nobody. He literally had nowhere to go, the Blazers new it, and they negotiated the most inexpensive deal possible given the circumstances.
Somebody tell me why we need to hire a new GM? Well played, 3-headed GMonster, well played.
[Note: Original post mis-described the value of the new MLE. Additionally, it was questioned in my original comment as to what would happen to Greg if he refused the QO. I hold my assertion that the result of turning down the QO without another offer to replace it is immediate UFA status, but I’m no expert.]
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice they're not.
well, at times you have people suggest that Greg WANTS to be done with Portland,
and I am observing that the door was open here, and he STAYED. If he wanted to be elsewhere, he could have probably made a move with any of a variety of contracts. The Blazers say:
I think they were very, very classy about the situation. They understood our concerns. We were able to work together on an agreement we felt was fair on both sides. I’d like to give a lot of credit out to Greg’s representatives for going the direction they did.
and this sounds reasonable and encouraging from a relationship (Blazers+Greg) perspective.
I think Greg wants to come through for the team that drafted him if at all possible. I really hope he gets the chance.
What door was open?
His choices were to take the 1.5 and be unrestricted next year our turn it down, not get paid, and still be restricted next year
"But if Ding Dongs and prime rib were the path to NBA pivot stardom we'd all be wearing the uniform." -Dave
by douglast on Dec 30, 2011 11:55 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
even if restricted, he still could have solicited better offers from other teams,
which the Blazers would have to match to keep him. I doesn’t sound like there was any effort to look for another team. You make it sound like take what the Blazers offer or nothing were the only options.
If we had taken QO off the table, he would have been UFA.
We would not have had matching rights.
by 52therim on Dec 30, 2011 10:14 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Well, Portland is no longer eligible to make a Qualifying Affer
and yes, Oden will be a free agent in July.
My gut is that Greg
has desires that are far too nuanced to fall purely into “stay” or “go” categories. Also, whether he “wants” to be here or not, I can’t imagine him being excited about beginning a stay with another team on the injured reserve list. That would be falling right back into the unfortunate pattern he started here in Portland. If anything, this city might have less expectations for Greg than anywhere else. Had he signed with, say, Miami or Boston, even for such a small number, fans and media would be wondering if/when he was ever going to make his debut. For us, anything is gravy at this point.
In a weird way, Portland may have gone from being the city with the most expectations for Greg to the one that will simply be happy for him to be a role player, especially if his contract is reasonable.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Dec 30, 2011 12:00 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree.
With the information out there it is hard to determine one way or another, whether he will stay or go. Going by “gut” is the best we got at this point. Because I like Greg, I am reading this as " he wants to stay in Portland", but I can easily see how it can read the other way.
At the present moment I am going to cheer for the PTB’s as is, and hope that G.O. returns soon, because we sure could use him.
I am not who I think I am.
by prajna on Dec 30, 2011 12:17 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
As pointed out in your other thread
Its really a misnomer to say greg refused the qo. The cba forbids him from signing a qo that he can’t live up to. Under the terms of the cba, the blazers could have offered him another qo next year, again making him restricted. he could not refuse a qo and become unrestricted
"But if Ding Dongs and prime rib were the path to NBA pivot stardom we'd all be wearing the uniform." -Dave
by douglast on Dec 30, 2011 11:53 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Could we please just give up on this experiment?
GO has never been healthy his entire adult life, why does anybody in mamagement think that will change?
I don’t think team is so bad we need to keep hoping and waiting for Oden.
His entire adult life? What's that? Two years?
"You can walk away from someone who doesn’t love you. And you can walk away from someone you don’t love. But when the love is mutual," Roy said. "The hardest thing is to walk away."
Fine, I should have said "since the sixth grade" when he had hip surgery.
Either way, it is nice that they were able to restructure his contract.
Well,
his roster spot essentially kept Earl Barron off the squad. That’s not going to break the team.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Dec 30, 2011 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
regardless of value
as the new deal is NOT a Qualifying Offer…can the deal negotiate a new deal at any time?
(QOs restrict renegotiations until FA)
by ripcitymilehigh on Dec 30, 2011 12:07 PM PST reply actions
No
He’s not eligible for an extension and will become an UFA in July
by Storyteller on Dec 30, 2011 10:53 PM PST up reply actions
Fair to assume he won't play at any point this year, I think.
Hell of a pay cut if the odds pointed in any other direction. So what are the chances that anyone recovering from injury for three full years (last game played 12/5/09) will still possess any athletic ability or any basketball skills? Not high.
Folks around here accuse me of being a Debbie Downer a lot. It’s a fair accusation I guess, in that I tend to look at the negatives a lot more than the average fan, but my perspective is that I evaluate what I see are odds of possible outcomes and try to look for best strategies for handling that entire range of outcomes instead of ignoring the problems and hoping for the best. Also known as “risk management”, something that the Blazers management seems to know nothing about.
by howlingfantods on Dec 30, 2011 12:27 PM PST reply actions
One point that I think the rosy-glasses crowd don't seem to acknowledge
is that even you all were right that I was wrong to think his ceiling was lower than everyone said when drafted (I thought in 07 that he’d be at best a slightly better Mutombo), it’s certainly true that his ceiling now has to be a lot lower. These knee injuries rob players of raw athleticism, bounce, lateral movement, everything that made Oden a major prospect. He didn’t have a refined set of skills he can fall back on either; in fact, he’ll have spent three years not playing/practicing/developing skills.
Under those conditions, it would take a minor miracle just to get him to be a productive player in the NBA. His absolute ceiling now is now somewhere around a Nazr Mohammed with better hands.
by howlingfantods on Dec 30, 2011 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe people would acknowledge what you write if it was easier to understand
I read this post three times and still don’t know exactly what your first sentence means.
"You can walk away from someone who doesn’t love you. And you can walk away from someone you don’t love. But when the love is mutual," Roy said. "The hardest thing is to walk away."
I think
he’s saying he thought Oden wasn’t that good; others might have been right that he was good; but now it doesn’t matter because Oden will never be good.
Okay, I think I get it.
“I told you so once before, and I was wrong, but now I can kinda sorta say I told you so after all. So I will!”
Fool me once . . .
"You can walk away from someone who doesn’t love you. And you can walk away from someone you don’t love. But when the love is mutual," Roy said. "The hardest thing is to walk away."
right. So those guys still waiting for Superman
are going to be very disappointed at what Oden’s going to be if/when he ever steps on the court again.
by howlingfantods on Dec 30, 2011 1:01 PM PST up reply actions
Superman is an overstatement
I think most people are waiting for a 7’1’’ 275+ lb behemoth to anchor the middle. He doesn’t need a lot of athleticism to do that. He already has the strength, has displayed the ability to out muscle many of the NBA’s bigs when he was younger (which wouldn’t go away imo as a result of everything negative he’s gone through), and to be honest we don’t need him to be superman. I’m not saying he’ll be the same player he would have been, but that doesn’t mean the player he will be wouldn’t help us significantly. But I’ll believe it when I see him on the court. I have total belief in his ability, just no belief in his ability to be healthy.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Dec 30, 2011 1:06 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
is this andre miller?
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain_4.html#ixzz1IE4sPu16
by Tyler Durrden on Dec 30, 2011 12:58 PM PST up reply actions
pre-season of course!
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain_4.html#ixzz1IE4sPu16
by Tyler Durrden on Dec 30, 2011 1:00 PM PST up reply actions
I think his main point (and I've disagreed with Howling on many an occassion)
is that we can’t project Oden to the same heights as we did prior to these operations. I think Howling is conceding that Oden’s ceiling really was that high, despite what he had initially thought, but that his ceiling is now lowered as a result of the injuries and the Blazers would be well served to take that into account. Hard for me to disagree with, but IF HEALTHY I still see Oden as a big-time impact player, even if he has been robbed of some athleticism due to injury/operations. That being said, as I noted above, I am in a very numb state of “believe it when I see it” with regards to him getting on the court
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
agreed
it is a lot of time off for Greg though…just when he was hitting his groove in the 21 games he played a few years ago is when he went down again. My expectations have bottomed out. Doesn’t mean I don’t believe in Greg, I just stopped counting on him in any way.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
yeah I guess it's good to temper our expectations, but I don't know if any of his injuries will have that big of an impact on his athleticism.
he’s certainly got youth on his side, he’s still exceptionally strong and he’s got lots of time to heal. I know a lot of people like to say he won’t be good after all this stuff, but I just don’t understand why. Bones breaking and micro-fracture are easier to come back from than ligament or tendon damage, which often never go back to the way they were prior to injury.
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain_4.html#ixzz1IE4sPu16
by Tyler Durrden on Dec 30, 2011 1:08 PM PST up reply actions
pretty much, except I actually think the rich man's mutombo was pretty accurate.
Not really conceding that so much as saying that that entire set of arguments is basically irrelevant with the loss of athleticism and skills that these years of injuries and recovery will inflict.
Amare missed one season (although not even totally since he tried to return that season), not nearly three. Amare had one microfracture in one knee, not one in each knee, plus whatever mysterious setback he’s experienced now. And Amare didn’t come back the same athletically that he was before.
by howlingfantods on Dec 30, 2011 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
rich man's Mutombo on steroids I suppose
with more touch and better FTs…but like you said, feels like just a pipe dream these days
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
and a more effective post game
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
it would be nice to see something rather than just endlessly speculate
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain_4.html#ixzz1IE4sPu16
by Tyler Durrden on Dec 30, 2011 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
tell me about it
I feel incredibly ripped off that there isn’t a nasty highlight reel a mile long of his overpowering play from the last few seasons
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
that and, you know, the effect on the Blazers
but that’s the way it goes
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Let's take a look at Howling's argument
Howling is saying that Greg has lost his athleticism and has no skills to rely on in order to justify being an NBA player.
I would argue that Greg is more skilled and will probably still be more athletic than Chris Dudley ever was. And Dudley played for 16 seasons and made more money in his career than Clyde Drexler (and almost as much as Jerome Kersey and Terry Porter combined). Why? Because he was 7 feet tall and weighed 250 lbs.
I agree with you: if Oden is healthy, he will be an impact player regardless of what has happened the past few years. The question has always been “will he stay healthy?”
"You can walk away from someone who doesn’t love you. And you can walk away from someone you don’t love. But when the love is mutual," Roy said. "The hardest thing is to walk away."
I don't think he said he couldn't be an NBA player, just saying he doesn't think he'll be much of one.
I disagree with his statement though
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain_4.html#ixzz1IE4sPu16
by Tyler Durrden on Dec 30, 2011 1:18 PM PST up reply actions
I'd take a bigger, stronger, more skilled Chris Dudley
Over Chris Johnson or a 38 year old Camby anyday.
That being said, his health may prevent it from ever happening.
"You can walk away from someone who doesn’t love you. And you can walk away from someone you don’t love. But when the love is mutual," Roy said. "The hardest thing is to walk away."
well he certainly has a lot of history pointing towards a negative outcome
I still remain positive that he can contribute some important time, and have a positive net effect on the court in his time. If you asked me about longevity though, I would have a tough time saying he will have a long career. I think his balance issues will get the better of him more than the MF’s and patella will.
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain_4.html#ixzz1IE4sPu16
by Tyler Durrden on Dec 30, 2011 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
Wow, I thought the "nazr mohammed with better hands" was diminishing
expectations— you think “better Dudley” sounds better? I thought of going with “less fat Diop” before I decided to try to sound a little more positive by going with the Nazr comparison.
by howlingfantods on Dec 30, 2011 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
as a result of sheer size/strength/manpower
Greg would surpass all those names. That’s sight unseen and post surgeries/missed seasons. He is that much of a force…that’s why it’s such a shame
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
Mm, diop was pretty damn strong and big
in his prime. Just didn’t really have skills or bbiq.
by howlingfantods on Dec 30, 2011 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
So it's true that size automatically makes even lesser players valuable.
Brendan Haywood, who’s similar in terms of size, is an impact player and not a bad guy to have on your team. Pretty decent athleticism compared to what I’d guess Oden will be if/when he returns. But Haywood does drift sometimes, whereas the one thing Oden never did was drift. So let’s call that a wash and call his comparison a less athletic/less lazy Haywood.
I don’t know about you guys, but I’m not exactly going to be spending the next couple of years agonizing about whether we get this guy back on the court when all I’m expecting out of him is Brendan Haywood-level production.
by howlingfantods on Dec 30, 2011 1:35 PM PST up reply actions
I tend to think of him in terms of whatever contribution he can give us is gravy
my expectations are certainly lower than those that should accompany a number one pick, but I also don’t see any reason to write him off and cut ties.
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain_4.html#ixzz1IE4sPu16
by Tyler Durrden on Dec 30, 2011 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
I have to disagree pretty strongly with the Diop and Haywood comparisons from a skill/coordination/BBIQ standpoint
That being said, any healthy player is technically more valuable than an injured Greg
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Dec 30, 2011 3:20 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I never said Greg would compare to Chris Dudley
I said he is already more skilled and will still be more athletic than Dudley ever was. . . 3 year layoff or not. That’s not saying his ceiling is a better Chris Dudley. I’m saying that even Chris Dudley was an impact player of sorts, so imagine how good Oden could be. (If he can get healthy.)
"You can walk away from someone who doesn’t love you. And you can walk away from someone you don’t love. But when the love is mutual," Roy said. "The hardest thing is to walk away."
Honestly
Having him back would be huge just to have another legitimate big body, if he could even play 15 decent minutes a game, that would be huge for our team.
z-Garden Variety Internet Denizen-z
WORD UP.STAY.FRESCO
15 minutes
6 fouls… Sounds right.
by 52therim on Dec 30, 2011 10:24 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
On the other hand...
The Mike’s, who have better media access and are, after all company men, still talked about Oden perhaps coming back in January or early February. They may be talking out of their backsides, but my thinking on Oden is nobody will know what he can or will do until he does it. Absolutely nothing would surprise me when it comes to him (short of him being a chick).
I’ve never met the guy, but he strikes me as a different cat, in a good way, and I’ve long stopped trying to predict what he’s thinking.
Yes, and remember Jason Quick,
who certainly doesn’t work for the Blazers, was in Colorado when Greg saw the doctors and said he was pretty upbeat that Thursday after his check-up and was excited he’d been cleared for more activities. Then we hear the next day that the doctors decided he’d had a “set-back.”
My understanding is that Greg feels fine and wants to play, but the doctors found that his ligament is weak and are being cautious. Greg (and the Blazers) have made it clear that they are not going to take any chances by bringing him back too early. That means he won’t be coming back in January or likely February but possibly in March. Given that scenario, the Blazers decided they didn’t want to pay him $8.9 million and discovered they don’t have to.
I think anyone who says he’s definitely not coming back is catastrophizing, and anyone who thinks he’s going to come back and dominate is naive. The truth is somewhere in between.
"You can walk away from someone who doesn’t love you. And you can walk away from someone you don’t love. But when the love is mutual," Roy said. "The hardest thing is to walk away."
I think it was the Mikes who said last night that Greg is scheduled for another MRI next week.
#52--------I believe in Greg Oden
I want to know what the issue with this "non-weight bearing ligament" is. Is there some partial tear? That's what I think it is.
If he starts tearing ligaments he is going to lose a lot of mobility.
by BRoyInThe4th on Dec 30, 2011 4:57 PM PST up reply actions
I think if he had a tear they wouldn't let him anywhere near a court
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain_4.html#ixzz1IE4sPu16
by Tyler Durrden on Dec 30, 2011 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
Personally, Im sick of all this
I just want Oden back on the court or I want to be rid of him. I can no longer stand to sit back and wait for this to all work itself out(even though I have no choice). Maybe I woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning but please dont tell us anything else about Oden unless its that hes either outta here or hes going to play.
Im starting to feel like the fisherman who reels in a record blue marlin only to have it break line and escape before I could gaffe it, and haul it into the boat. And then on my very next cast out, the same thing happens. I reel in a record breaker only to have it escape my clutches at the last possible second.
My heart hurts over this. Oden playing is all that will heal this pain. Oden leaving will cause a wound that will never heal. Stay or go, but why o why do we got to drag this all around, up and down. I need to have some closure here. Stay and play, or go, thats all thats left for me.
Feeling : ( about Oden, but id rather be : ) just they havent given us much reason for : )
by cavejunctionblazer on Dec 30, 2011 12:36 PM PST reply actions
I feel your pain
the trick is to lower your expectations to the floor…that way you don’t care that he’s not out there, are fine that he’s still on the team, and will be absolutely blown away if he does ever get on that court again in a Blazer uni.
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
My expectations cant get any lower
Sammy my friend, I must admit, I got re swept up by the Oden mania that he might play this season and when the latest setback occurred, all hopes and expectations went out the window. Thats why im at where im at with this now, play or bail, but dont tell us anymore about it. Id rather ride the high that we have a great team 3 and 0 right now, than have my dreams about Greg playing continually shot down over and over again. Its more than I can take. I wanted Greg to play more than anybody but Greg himself. Hes my favorite player that never plays. I wanted him to come back and dominate like we all know he can, it just doesnt seem to be a real possibility anymore. I try not to think about it much because it makes me sad Greg cant play, that weve put all this effort into his recovery for nothing so far. Its like when you talk about winning the lottery and what youd do with all the money, then you come back to reality and realize there is no money. Greg is like that for me now.
by cavejunctionblazer on Dec 30, 2011 1:51 PM PST up reply actions
well said, I can understand your feelings about this
I have almost no expectations for him either as a matter of self-preservation. He’s way down the list on things to feel good about this team though, and his situation doesn’t have a big impact on how I feel about them. If something changes and he plays, great. If not, I wasn’t banking on him saving the team anyways.
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain_4.html#ixzz1IE4sPu16
by Tyler Durrden on Dec 30, 2011 1:55 PM PST up reply actions
yep that sums it up for me
im not putting my feelings and hopes out there to be crushed again. burn me once shame on you, burn 500 times im just an idiot!
by cavejunctionblazer on Dec 30, 2011 2:05 PM PST up reply actions
It also means (I think) that we're comfortably under the luxury tax.
Which is a big deal under the new CBA. Storyteller had projected us right near that cap after signing Crawford.
by 52therim on Dec 30, 2011 10:30 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
In retrospect....
Dear Someone Smarter than me,
Did the Blazers need to use the amnesty clause to sign Crawford? Or would the 7 million in savings have given them enough room to use the full MLE?
Not that it matters now, just curious if they used it because they needed to right then for Crawford, or I’d they used it for other reasons.
by Ryan_PDX on Dec 30, 2011 1:41 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Pretty sure that renouncing Greg and rescinding the QO would not have saved enough to do a full MLE for Crawford. That was never discused as an option. So doing a smaller contract wouldn’t have given us the MLE either.
by 52therim on Dec 30, 2011 10:34 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Anybody know...
Does the current CBA allow for any sort of games-played bonuses?
by ICanCheerLouder on Dec 30, 2011 2:52 PM PST reply actions
They need to let him go next summer...this is getting utterly rediculous. He might go down as the most injury prone big to ever play.
OSU '06
GForce Crash Wallace FTW!
yeah I just don't get the argument that we have to let him walk at this point
he’s not hurting the team really, he might give us some good time yet and it may come at a pretty cheap price
I think some people are frustrated with the situation and need to move on emotionally from the whole thing, I just don’t see the value in that
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain_4.html#ixzz1IE4sPu16
by Tyler Durrden on Dec 30, 2011 4:33 PM PST up reply actions
my personal favorite:
The writers who in one breath say Portland would be foolish to spend any more money on Oden, and in the next breath talk about what a great low downside/high upside risk it would be for team X to sign him.
"But if Ding Dongs and prime rib were the path to NBA pivot stardom we'd all be wearing the uniform." -Dave
yeah it's kind of ridiculous
I don’t know why some people can’t just not think about it, that’s pretty much what I do. I know that’s a foolish argument because everyone is not me, but it seems like the biggest reason people say to get rid of him is their personal feelings of affliction by us having him on our team. Just because you’re sick of hearing about his injuries or sick of hearing about how good he could be if he ever plays or sick of hearing about how we should have picked KD doesn’t really validate the argument. We picked Greg, he’s been hurt for longer than anybody would have wanted and the situation has tested peoples patience. None of those things are his fault, and none of those things will be fixed by kicking him out of town for nothing. The investment in him already has reached the tens of millions of dollars, the training staff has worked with him for years, and he’s shown a willingness to keep trying. I just don’t see why we should cut him now. Ride this out until he takes himself out of the equation and in the meantime get the team to play like he’s not even there.
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain_4.html#ixzz1IE4sPu16
by Tyler Durrden on Dec 30, 2011 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously
A 7.3 Million Dollar difference? Can you really call that an adjustment? That’s an adjustment like the sinking of the Titanic was just a way of cleaning off the decks. That’s Scar Face introducing you to his little friend. That’s finding out your E-Harmony.com date worships Satan and just finished jail time.
1.5 Million isn’t a bad payday, to basically rehab in Blazer facilities but it’s a far cry from 8.8 Million to basically do the same.
A 7.3 Million dollar adjustment does mean somethings up. Sounds like Buchanan and The Blazers opened up a big Ol’ Can of “Not so Fast There!”. Oden and his camps relatively quiet agreement? Well if all was well in Oden Land…I’m sure they’ed be asking for the full price of admission.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
Do we have incontrovertible proof that Greg accepted a $1.5 million salary? No.
#52--------I believe in Greg Oden
Not until the Blazers release that information...
And I can see why this info would be withheld. It certainly doesn’t raise hopes that Oden’s return is imminent. On the other hand, it does show that PA will show some fiscal restraint. It doesn’t seem like Blazer front office was running scared that Oden would leave if a low-ball offer was extended. More commendable work from the GM-less front office.
by 52therim on Dec 30, 2011 10:41 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Don't Need...
Incontrovertible proof to have an opinon on a rumor. As long as you know it’s a rumor. And I’d say Marc Stein of ESPN is a pretty legit source.
I don’t think it’s necessarily coincidence that this rumored signing happens, and The Blazers simultaneously adopt the “We don’t Talk about The Details of Contracts” rule. The Blazers wouldn’t even release the details of Kurt Thomas’s contract, let alone the bombshell news this “adjustment” would represent. So if you want to preface all commentary with “IF” go ahead. But people comment on rumors all the time.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
Let's put it this way...
….as far as rumors go? Marc Stein of ESPN? I’m feeling this one is probably legit. If your standard for belief in this case is validation from either The Blazers or Greg Oden or Odens camp? Then you are going to be waiting a long time, because neither The Blazers nor Oden are going to release the details.
Personally, I’m going to further my conspiracy theory, I don’t think it is coincidence that we have this “adjusted” Oden contract, and The Blazers simultaneously start to embrace the “We never Announce Contract Details” protocal.
The Blazers can say that is company/franchise protocal, but I remember plenty of contracts signed and agreed upon in the past where basic details like length and amount WERE shared with the public. I don’t think it is coincidence that The Blazers are now hiding behind this protocal.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
the details of the Kurt Thomas contract came out 3 days after he signed it, and that has been team policy for years
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain_4.html#ixzz1IE4sPu16
by Tyler Durrden on Dec 31, 2011 1:05 PM PST up reply actions
That's my point....
…I think the details were leaked by Thomas himself. And The Blazers used to NOT be so paranoid about releasing at least the fundamental details of a contract. Coincidence that this happens with Oden and suddenly we go into Blazer Protocal Lock-Down about NOT releasing details? I think not.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
The Blazers never announce contract details. This is nothing new.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 31, 2011 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I think so too. But it hasn't been announced by the Blazers or Greg's "people".
#52--------I believe in Greg Oden
"But it hasn't been announced by the Blazers or Greg's 'people'."
And it won’t be announced by said people.
"I Am Mine"
My guess is that this is indeed true
and that there are perhaps some unlikely incentives built into the contract. How many incentives? Who knows….perhaps the new CBA allows more unlikely incentives than were allowed in the previous agreement (the previous CBA limited unlikely incentives to 25% of the contract amount).
hmmmmm, incentives are an intriguing prospect
as in if he plays games, pay goes up. So the 1.5M would be minimum.
That would sound pretty good, and not make the low base number anything near as bad as it seems. The limit on incentives is the variable we need to fantasize more.
And, next summer, Camby
will have his contract renegotiated or be gone, and the Blazers will need a big man to team with Aldridge. Perhaps the only positive out of this is that it is possible that the Blazers can negotiate a deal with Oden that does not tie up the money you’d normally play a starting pivot – or PF – making it easier to take the risk of having him on the roster and not playing. The real issue is that we can’t contend if we don’t solve the issue on the front line, and we can’t rely on Oden to be that solution. And, if we tied up too much money on a 3 or 4 year contract, then the new CBA would make it very difficult to solve the issue if we pay too much to Oden – and he doesn’t play.
The same issue will affect every other NBA team. As much as some seem to think that teams would line up to sign him, I suspect that the new CBA makes it unlikely that anyone gambles $8 million or more on him. Young or not, he is, in a practical sense, going to be starting over, and might as well be a rookie. After all, that’s basically what he will be. And, of course, one with a history of injury unlike any other player who came to the NBA and got drafted that high.
For Mr. Oden's sake
I hope he goes back to his stated dream of being a dentist. That’s not a bad living, not at all, and continuing to get money while endlessly waiting for a one-in-a-zillion shot at a brief NBA career can’t be good for one’s mental state. Everyone should feel useful and important, and he can’t at this point.
He will never play at a high level in the NBA and maybe never play at all. I hope he realizes that and moves on. Blazer fans need to realize it and move on. Yes, it stinks that, after 20+ years, the first team to finally make a more colossal draft mistake than passing on Jordan is the same team. But it’s over. Time to figure out how the team can escape those dreaded “OK but not a contender” doldrums. And Oden will not, in any way, shape or form, be part of the answer.
Steve Goodman lives.
































