Stein: Clippers Win Chris Paul Sweepstakes
Marc Stein of ESPN.com reports that the Los Angeles Clippers have agreed to acquire All-Star point guard Chris Paul and two future second round picks from the New Orleans Hornets in exchange for guard Eric Gordon, forward Al-Farouq Aminu, center Chris Kaman and an unprotected 2012 first round pick from the Minnesota Timberwolves.
To remove any doubt: the Hornets have sent out a press release confirming the particulars.
ed: text updated, bumped to front page
5 months ago
AK1984
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didn't they just get Chauncy too?
ridiculous. What’s the angle Sterling? We know you’re not in it to win it!
I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain
Read more: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mark_twain_4.html#ixzz1IE4sPu16
WOW. Way to play hardball Stern.
That deal is absurdly good for the Hornets. It’s like “Rebuild-In-A-Box”.
Cap room, a potentially superstar caliber 23 yo SG, a highly-touted SF rookie, AND what may be a top-3 pick in one of the best drafts in years? Jealouuuuuuuuus
Much better deal than the Lakers/Rockets one for NO
I do think Bill Simmons made a good point the other day about the Minny pick being somewhat overrated, though. Realistically, how many of Toronto, New Orleans, Cleveland, Sacramento and Detroit are going to be definitely better than Minny adding Ricky Rubio, JJ Barea, Derrick Williams and a competent coach?
No way I see them making the playoffs, but I think it’s nowhere near an automatic top 5 pick like seems to be assumed sometimes.
I agree
in fact, I’m pretty sure the TWolves make the playoffs this year. Adelman could have done that with last year’s team.
I'm doubtful
NO, San Antonio, and possibly Denver if Chandler and JR are really stuck in China are really the only playoff teams I see potentially taking large drops in the west this year, and it’s hard to imagine SA dropping all the way out, so if there are really only two available playoff spots up for grabs, I can’t see Minny jumping the Clips, Phoenix, Houston, Utah AND GS for one of those spots.
You forgot Portland
making the playoffs for us is not assured by any means. One key injury (which, face it, is likely) and we could lose a bunch of games.
I may have overstated Minny making the playoffs, but I think they have a good chance. I think Phoenix, Denver and Golden State will struggle to make it, and I don’t think it’s a sure thing for Houston, Utah, SA, us, hell, the LAKERS. Odom gone, Pau on his way out, Kobe another year older…
No matter how you slice it, the west is tough!
The T'wolves will finish dead last or second to last in the Western Conference this season.
"I Am Mine"
As it should be.
LaMarcus has to raise his level of play. Last year he pretty much became the go-to guy for us. Nothing changes, we are certainly going to stay in that direction. - Nate McMillan
by conspirator5 on Dec 14, 2011 6:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I think the Minnesota T'wolves will still blow chunks, even with Rick Adelman at the helm.
And Adelman is far from perfect, as noted by his failed tenure in Oakland during the mid-’90s.
"I Am Mine"
As mediocre as those teams were
Kurt Rambis would kill for a 66-98 record. And even in his worst year, GS was still the 8th worst team in the league, and pick 8 is hardly an exciting place to be going into the lottery unless you’re a Bulls fan. There’s “blowing chunks” and then there’s wetting the bed so bad that you can’t just put a towel over it, to paraphrase Kobe Bryant.
Adelman’s no messiah, but he’s a clear and obvious upgrade over the terrible-ness of Rambis.
Ha-ha, I can't argue with "wetting the bed so bad that you can’t just put a towel over it."
Even so, I still think Minnesota will be jockeying with Sacramento for the position of cellar dweller in the Western Conference this season. Without better talent, Adelman can’t get the T’wolves out of the basement.
"I Am Mine"
I see them as 3rd worst in the West
although realistically anywhere from 2nd worst-5th worst wouldn’t shock me. I don’t see how anyone could place NO above them now having lost their two best players and replaced them with only Eric Gordon, and realistically Utah could be jockeying down there after being awful last year without Deron (26 win pace post all star break). While they won’t set the league on fire, I’d say the Adelman-Rambis upgrade along with adding Rubio, Derrick Williams, and Barea should combine to be worth about 10 wins for Minny, putting them safely into apathetically bad territory after the horror of the last few years.
I think Monty Williams coaching at a slow pace and putting an emphasis on defense ...
makes him a lot like Doug Collins. Like Collins, Williams will get the most out of nothing.
Will New Orleans make the playoffs? Nope, no chance. Will New Orleans finish ahead of Minnesota and the poorly coached Sacramento? Yes, I think so. I also think Golden State will falter with Mark Jackson impersonating a head coach.
"I Am Mine"
I don't see it
They’re currently in line to start Quincy Pondexter at PF and his 8.5 PER at PF. I don’t care if Monty is the next coming of Phil Jackson, unless that team somehow makes a lot of great signings, they’ll be terrible. Arguably 3 of their best 7 players are centers and they currently have exactly 4 people on the roster who could even masquerade as backcourt players, one of which has a total of 19 minutes of NBA experience.
Even if you believe Monty Williams to be a superior coach to Adelman, it baffles me that anyone could consider the Gordon and the non-Eric Gordon dreck that comprises the current NO roster right now to be better talent-wise than Minnesota. I’d listen to an argument for it, but I can’t see it being convincing.
I expect Al-Farouq Aminu to start at power forward, although him and Trevor ...
at the forwards is a offensively limited duo. Oh, and even as a UW guy, I agree that having Quincy Pondexter as the third forward is weak stuff. Eric Gordon and Jarrett Jack are an average backcourt, too, but I still believe that Gordon can carry a heavy offensive load without too much difficulty.
On second thought, though, this is a very bad team on paper. Maybe I should alter my position on them from being the 3rd worst team in the Western Conference to potentially the worst.
Regardless, I don’t see Minnesota finishing higher than any team other than New Orleans or Sacramento. That puts the T’wolves in the 13th to 15th range.
"I Am Mine"
The beauty for them though
Is that they probably WANT to be awful this year. Then they can have their “Aldridge/Roy” draft next year with 2 top-5 picks. Add them to Gordon and Aminu and their team is going to be awesome in 2-3 years.
Yeah, Minny's strange collection
of PG retreads and SFs isn’t exactly talent-heavy, just that NO’s roster is so thin. I do think the Wolves have some potential upside with Rubio and Williams both possibly playing way above expectations, although I’m doubtful.
Bill Simmons' other good point:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/110225/part1&sportCat=nba
The most important part:
“Since 1965, not one NBA team that traded a package of pieces for a superstar regretted it after the fact. Don’t believe me? Here’s the complete list:
1965: Philly trades Connie Dierking, Paul Neumann, Lee Shaffer and cash to San Francisco for Wilt Chamberlain.
1968: Lakers trade Jerry Chambers, Archie Clark and Darrell Imhoff to Philly for Wilt Chamberlain.
1970: Milwaukee trades Flynn Robinson and Charlie Paulk to Cincinnati for Oscar Robertson.
1975: Lakers trade Elmore Smith, Brian Winters, Dave Meyers and Junior Bridgeman to Milwaukee for Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
1983: Philly trades Caldwell Jones and Cleveland’s 1983 first-rounder (No. 3, Rodney McCray) to Houston for Moses Malone.
1993: Phoenix trades Jeff Hornacek, Tim Perry and Andrew Lang to Philly for Charles Barkley.
1994: Washington trades Tom Gugliotta, 1996 first-rounder (No. 11, Todd Fuller), 1998 first (No. 13, Keon Clark) and 2000 first (No. 7, Chris Mihm) to Golden State for Chris Webber.
1996: Houston trades Robert Horry, Sam Cassell, Chucky Brown and Mark Bryant to Phoenix for Charles Barkley.
1996: Phoenix trades Michael Finley, Sam Cassell, A.C. Green and a 1998 No. 2 (No. 53, Greg Buckner) to Dallas for Jason Kidd, Tony Dumas and Loren Meyer.
1999: Phoenix trades Danny Manning, Pat Garrity, 2001 first-rounder (No. 18, Jason Collins) and 2002 first (No. 9, Amare Stoudemire) to Orlando for Penny Hardaway.
2004: Houston trades Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley and Kelvin Cato to Orlando for Tracy McGrady, Tyronn Lue, Reece Gaines and Juwan Howard.
2005: New Jersey trades Alonzo Mourning, Eric Williams, Aaron Williams, Philly’s 2005 No. 1 pick (No. 16, Joey Graham) and a 2006 No. 1 (No. 20, Renaldo Balkman) to Toronto for Vince Carter.
2005: Miami trades Lamar Odom, Brian Grant, Caron Butler, a 2006 No. 1 (No. 26, Jordan Farmar) and a 2006 No. 2 (No. 50, Renaldas Seibutis) to the Lakers for Shaquille O’Neal.
2007: Boston trades Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, a 2009 No. 1 (No. 28, Wayne Ellington) and the rights to Minnesota’s 2009 No. 1 (No. 6, Jonny Flynn) to Minnesota for Kevin Garnett.
2008: Lakers trade Kwame Brown, Jarvaris Crittendon, Aaron McKie, the rights to Marc Gasol, a 2008 No. 1 (No. 28, Donte Greene) and a 2010 No. 1 (No. 28, Greivis Vasquez) to Memphis for Pau Gasol.
That’s 15 trades in all. Eight of them (Wilt, Wilt again, Oscar, Moses, Barkley, Shaq, KG and Gasol) resulted in a championship or a Finals appearance within two seasons. The Lakers ended up winning five titles with Kareem. Houston came within two wins and a Matt Maloney meltdown of making the ‘97 Finals with Barkley. Jersey easily won the Vince trade; same for Houston with T-Mac. Phoenix won the Kidd trade, although Finley had a nice career in Dallas. Washington’s Webber deal could have backfired if any of the picks panned out … but they didn’t. Only Phoenix’s Penny deal failed to work out, but in a strange twist, the Suns got their No. 1 pick back in a subsequent deal and took Stoudemire with it, so even THAT trade worked out. Fifteen for 15! When in doubt, you always want to grab the dollar bill if you’re giving up change in the NBA."
To wit: Gordon/Aminu/Kaman/2012 pick = “change,” just like Felton/Wesley/Wallace/2012 pick would have = “change.” CP3, the MVP-caliber point guard who just played 80 games last year including his best ball during the playoffs (which I’m saying only to deride the myth that he’s playing on one knee, which is ridiculous given the evidence at hand)? He’s a “dollar bill.” If he re-signs with the Clips, which he almost definitely will given that they’re now LA’s best team, look for them to consistently be one of the best teams in the conference.
He conveniently left a lot off that list.
Like our very own Brian Grant and Gary Grant for Shawn Kemp.
Or Jermaine O’Neal for Dale Davis?
Shaq to Cleveland?
and Jamison too? Result- LBJ walks…
by simoninaustralia on Dec 14, 2011 5:40 PM PST up reply actions
Hardly
I used to be a basketball player like you, then I took the Portland Trail Blazers' training staff to the knee.
True, but you have to put it in there for the sake of argument.
You might be able to ask the same of some of the other players too- like was Tyronn Lue a superstar or surefire hall-of-famer?
by simoninaustralia on Dec 14, 2011 8:33 PM PST up reply actions
I think the point of that entry was
T-Mac. Which does raise other issues.
I used to be a basketball player like you, then I took the Portland Trail Blazers' training staff to the knee.
Shawn Kemp was most definitely not in his prime
when we traded for him, and that would be the first time anyone has ever called Dale Davis, or even Jermaine O’Neal a superstar. Nice players in their prime, especially a JO, but I don’t think you can place a guy who was probably never a top 4 player in the league at his position at any time in his career. Definitely nowhere near the Shaq tier.
I'm a little surprised Okafor wasn't in the deal
bad contracts seemed to the complaint about the LA-Hou-NO trade, with Bledsoe staying in Clipper land, Mo Williams 2 year deal vs Okafor’s 4 year deal would make sense.
Red means run, son, numbers add up to nothin
I don't know about that. Blake Griffin would benefit more from Emeka Okafor than Mo Williams.
"I Am Mine"
Ya, but you're thinking just from a basketball standpoint
I’m talking about PR and TV
Mo Williams doesn't offer much on or off the court, though.
I think the Clippers almost have to flip him, but I’m not sure to where or for whom.
"I Am Mine"
Amnesty?
Clippers have a heck of a PG rotation now
I thought that Trevor Ariza and Mo Williams would've swapped places, since Williams looks to be ...
the odd man out in Clipperland.
"I Am Mine"
isnt gordon a FA soon?
Heard he wanted to go to Indiana
by King Mar on Dec 14, 2011 6:39 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
David Stern to Retire as Commish and Become Blazers New GM!
He’s got the experience the Blazers were looking for now!
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 4:20 PM PST reply actions
So, I feel like the starting lineup for the Clips is:
PG: Paul
SG: Billups
SF: Butler
PF: Griffin
C: Jordan
But what happens if there is a front court or wing injury? Also, VDN might have to use a lot of 3 PG (Paul, Mo Williams, Billups) lineups just to get his best players on the floor, and there is still no room for Eric Bledsoe.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
Caron Butler and Ryan Gomes will split the minutes at the 3.
Anyhow, a starting backcourt of Chauncy Billups and Chris Paul backed up by Randy Foye and Mo Williams is undersized as can be. The two players battling for the third-string shooting guard spot, Travis Leslie and Willie Warren, are also undersized.
"I Am Mine"
And then CP3 gets hurt and misses a good portion of the season.
The Department of Redundancy Department is hiring, maybe I should apply myself.
by SGT Lenny on Dec 14, 2011 4:58 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I honestly feel like Gomes is sooooooo bad that the 3 PG lineup would work better lol
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
The Clippers need to get another wing, yeah.
One thought I had earlier is Mo Williams to Sacramento for Francisco Garcia.
"I Am Mine"
Yeah, that might work.
I really think they would have done well to ship Williams to Nola, then take back Ariza.
Another option would be to investigate the asking price for Andre Igoudala, but I doubt the Clippers have the assets at this point.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
Yeah, they don't have the pieces now to get Iguodala.
I also think they should’ve swapped Mo Williams with Trevor Ariza, but New Orleans I’m sure felt that Ariza at small forward was needed and Jarrett Jack will be fine at point guard. Due to that, a guy like Francisco Garcia seems like fair value in a trade for Williams.
"I Am Mine"
Looks like another deal will probably be in the works for Mo Williams leaving
Too many point guards on the roster and they cannot trade Billups
This must mean we're getting CP3 AND Blake Griffin
for Batum, Oden, and a late second round pick. Sweet!
Ok...NOLA has Kaman AND Okafor
Can we please make a deal for Okafor NOW Buchanon? Camby for Okafor and a pick since his contract is so long. If that’s too much just take Camby for Okafor straight up.
I know I’ve been saying this for a long time, but Okafor is exactly the kind of center we need in Portland. Heck, even if we had to settle for Kaman, I’d be ok with that. I like Camby a lot, but man…
by Eric Loftin on Dec 14, 2011 4:27 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Go for Okafor. I've been campaigning for that. But it will take more than just Camby.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
And more than Camby and our draft pick.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
Okafor isn't worth a big expiring contract and a pick in this draft
We’re doing the Hornets a favor by giving them expiring money, but it just so happens that Okafor would help us a lot in the process. We would want to get a pick from them for doing them a favor by taking on long term money.
Sorry but he is worth much more than that.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 4:34 PM PST up reply actions
Sources?
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 4:47 PM PST up reply actions
Go back into some wire archives about Chris Paul deals needing to involve Okafor
Going back for the last year and a half. They’ve been trying to unload him. With them dealing Paul now and the NBA wanting to sell the team, I guarantee they want out from under that contract. They want cheap/short term contracts and picks
I've read them all. You are talking about combination deals.
For instance, the Lakers considered Okafor in the Paul deal to bring back a big because they were originally dealing Gasol/Bynam/Odom. Stuff like that. There’s been nothing confirmed that NO would dump Okafor for nothing. He would have been gone by now.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
Regardless....
We all agree that he’s a good target for us. I just hope they do something.
OK, we found agreement. Good discussion!
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 5:13 PM PST up reply actions
he's a $8-9 million player making $12 million this year.
he’s a bad contract not an awful one.
Red means run, son, numbers add up to nothin
Right, and his contract isn't as bad as 2 years ago because there's only 3 years left.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 5:03 PM PST up reply actions
And there's no way give up anybody from our core for Okafor
Camby and Babbitt, sure.
You give up Wallace for Okafor + draft picks.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 4:35 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
That's an interesting angle...
All the Okafor talks on here have always centered around Camby.
by Rodney Gustafson on Dec 14, 2011 4:37 PM PST up reply actions
I might do that,
but it leaves us pretty thin at SF behind Batum…Also, money doesn’t match up enough, we’d have to include somebody else.
Wesley can play backup small forward if we get Crawford.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 4:41 PM PST up reply actions
No...
Wesley is 6’4" or 6’5"….he can’t play the 3. People tried to say Rudy could play the 3 too. You need somebody who’s at least 6’7" with a good wingspan to play that position.
Is this site acting weird, or is it my computer?
Not posting things correctly…
He can play the backup 3 for limited minutes. Rudy didn't have any bulk.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 4:45 PM PST up reply actions
Matthews would be fine at the 3 for 15 minutes a game
He has spent a lot of time guarding small forwards. Our rebounding suffers when he’s at the 3, but defensively we’re OK.
Matthews handles the ball like a spot-up-in-the corner 3-man, too. Not that I want to move Wallace. I’d rather move Matthews, but that wouldn’t give them as much salary relief.
Absolutely. But tell Eric Loftin, not me.
Wesley even defended Melo decently when he was a rookie.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 4:50 PM PST up reply actions
But they wouldn't take Wesley+(filler) for Okafor
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
Nor can afford to move Wesley until we get another 2.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 4:52 PM PST up reply actions
skill set maybe
But physical attributes, not a chance
You do realize that for a while we were STARTING Matthews at the 3 right?
Remember our mid-season lineups of Miller-Roy-Matthews-Aldridge-Camby?
Matthews can play the 3…
The smarter you are, the more likely you are to be tripping balls at any given moment.
Bring Back Dre.
The money isn't really an issue
If they want cap relief or a big body, Earl Baron’s non-guaranteed deal can be included. If they want a player, give them one of the second year players. Any one of those contracts is enough to get the deal done.
Not saying I would want to do Wallace for Okafor… Haven’t thought enough about it. But it’s easy to make the dollars work. And the lineup would be OK.
PG – Felton, Crawford, Smith
SG – Matthews, Crawford, Williams
SF – Batum, Matthews, Babbitt
PF – Aldridge, Thomas
C – Okafor, Camby, Johnson, Oden*
by Rodney Gustafson on Dec 14, 2011 5:24 PM PST up reply actions
Camby might work with a couple 2nd year Blazers added to the deal.
But I doubt it. They can do better for Okafor unless they just want an expiring contract and I haven’t heard that.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 4:44 PM PST up reply actions
Elliot Williams is the compromise.
If it takes more than Marcus Camby and some scrubs like Luke Babbitt and Armon Johnson — which it will — then Williams is added to the talks.
"I Am Mine"
Yep, although I would have liked to see Williams for a year.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
Chris Johnson would also be on the table, as would 1 or 2 future second-rounders.
Can’t forget the draft rights to Victor Claver, too.
"I Am Mine"
That's been my imaginary package for Okafor for a while.
Camby, Elliot Williams, and possibly a 2nd round pick for Okafor.
I’d do it, it’s not ideal and I’d prefer going all in for Bogut, but Okafor is a more realistic target.
The smarter you are, the more likely you are to be tripping balls at any given moment.
Bring Back Dre.
After Herb Kohl's recent remarks about the new CBA, I doubt that the Milwaukee ...
Bucks would entertain dealing Andrew Bogut. The Bucks are currently the #1 treading water team, which is necessary for now due to it having a crappy arena, aging owner, et cetera. If the team tanked and Kohl died, that team could be on the relocation block.
"I Am Mine"
Bucks to Seattle and WC, Hornets to EC.
Book it.
Oh yeah… you spent all your arena money on a tunnel project. Laaaame. Who would have thought big ole Seattle would have Boston envy.
LaMarcus has to raise his level of play. Last year he pretty much became the go-to guy for us. Nothing changes, we are certainly going to stay in that direction. - Nate McMillan
by conspirator5 on Dec 14, 2011 6:13 PM PST up reply actions
At least it's no Big Dig.
Anyhow, any new arena here will have to be financed heavily by private funds.
"I Am Mine"
I haven't looked at a map lately
But it seems like Memphis would be the more likely EC candidate.
I used to be a basketball player like you, then I took the Portland Trail Blazers' training staff to the knee.
Right now, I'd offer up Marcus Camby and couple young players (e.g., Luke Babbitt & Armon Johnson) ...
for Emeka Okafor. Because Portland can’t trade its 2012 first-rounder due to owing its 2013 first-rounder to Charlotte, I’d even consider including Elliot Williams — if necessary — to seal the deal.
"I Am Mine"
by AK1984 on Dec 14, 2011 4:42 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
We agree. Get it done!
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, Portland should actively try to pursue this.
On the table:
Marcus Camby
Luke Babbitt
Elliot Williams
Armon Johnson
Chris Johnson
Victor Claver’s draft rights
2 future second-rounders
$3 million in cash considerations
Off the table:
Nolan Smith
Joel Freeland’s draft rights
A future first-rounder
"I Am Mine"
A distant 1st would be ok.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 5:05 PM PST up reply actions
Particularly if Williams wasn't included.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
And I do Wallace for Okafor plus a decent 1st round pick.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 5:07 PM PST up reply actions
Problem is Portland's future firsts are tied up some from last season's Gerald Wallace ...
"I Am Mine"
I'm saying we should get Okafor and a 1st from NO for Wallace.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 5:40 PM PST up reply actions
Oh, my bad.
Hmm, I’d keep Gerald Wallace if we’re acquiring Emeka Okafor. By getting Okafor, the goal should be to make a second-round push; thus, Wallace would be needed here.
"I Am Mine"
Whoa....
I would put EDub on the Off the table list… Dude can reportedly jump like Supaman, he’s been wowing guys this spring… he shouldn’t be going anywhere. He and Nolan have also been working wel together.
All this hype Elliot Williams is getting reminds me more and more of Flip Murray in Seattle.
"I Am Mine"
Flip wasn't even a D-1 prospect
He played in JC, then a D-2 school. Not even comparable. E-Mail was recruited by some of the top college scouts and coaches, and the Spurs, possibly the best scouting machine in the NBA, reportedly tried to add an additional first round pick to get Email.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
I actually agree with you for once.
Okafor would be a super solid addition. Much like a much younger Pryz. We would be set there for a long time.
by blazersunited on Dec 14, 2011 5:52 PM PST up reply actions
Awesome. Happy its done. Glad to see its not the Lakers :)
Paul Allen, the 2011 Trail Blazers Owner/GM
Do you expect Chris Paul to re-sign with the Clippers?
He won’t even have to move again, to sign with the Lakers next year…
Yeah, I see him staying with the Clips
as long as the Blake Show is healthy and they get a solid 3rd option for em’.
Paul Allen, the 2011 Trail Blazers Owner/GM
The Steve Blake show?
He won’t even have to move house either to join the clips. Just saying.
by simoninaustralia on Dec 14, 2011 5:46 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Are they?
Thought the same thing bout the Lions before this year…
Paul Allen, the 2011 Trail Blazers Owner/GM
The Lions ended last season on a roll
The Clips fell apart.
by Sabonis4Ever on Dec 14, 2011 7:12 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not talking about last season in particular
but the culture of losing & removing that, replacing it with winning.
Paul Allen, the 2011 Trail Blazers Owner/GM
The Clippers recent evolution is interesting
Makes you realize that maybe it wasn’t Sterling after all, but that Elgin Baylor was perhaps the worst GM ever and he was on the job for 22 years.
No, it was Sterling
Baylor talked after the fact how little he was actually ever allowed to do.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
And in a few months, Paul will walk and the Clip will be left with
Griffin, Billups and Jordan? Hmmmm……nice trade guys.
Paul opted in as part of the deal. He's there for 2 years.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 4:32 PM PST up reply actions
Deron Williams and Dwight Howard
Neither of which would go to Portland unfortunately
I think Deron could be a stretch possibility
Depends on how we do this season. I don’t really expect it to happen at all, but I wouldn’t be crazy surprised if it did happen.
And if the Clips have success
Like say a decent play-off run in one of those two years…
We may see him sign an extension.
by Jonathan Wright on Dec 14, 2011 4:50 PM PST up reply actions
His knees will probably wear out before he leaves LA.
"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Dec 14, 2011 5:09 PM PST up reply actions
wait for it...wait for it....
SYKE!! haha any minute they will say sorry Pauls not going anywhere.
Just kidding… : / )
by cavejunctionblazer on Dec 14, 2011 4:36 PM PST reply actions
Wow...
The Lakers better get on Howard or or there will be tyranny in LA! :-P
Actually, the best part of that deal for the Clips is that draft pick seeing as though Minnesota is going to suck you know what this year. Even if they loose Paul to Free Agency next year they are still going to be in REALLY good shape seeing as how good the draft is going to be.
Tyranny = Mutiny?
Unless you’re saying that Stern is going to take over the Lakers…
I JUST WANT MY BASKETBALL BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Sean in Vancouver on Dec 14, 2011 8:16 PM PST up reply actions
My god, the Clippers just got SHAFTED
You don’t trade a prime Eric Gordon who is young and 100% healthy + a potential #1 overall pick in the stacked 2012 draft for an older guard with a bum knee. Whatever, better for us I’d say because the Clippers were looking dangerous for a second there.
Yeah but the Clippers are known to make really dumb moves. At least this one might pay off. It will be a number one pick they
traded away with the Clippers luck.
by BRoyInThe4th on Dec 14, 2011 5:08 PM PST up reply actions
Real short term maneuver
You’ll be left with Griffin and a terrible contract for Paul in 2014.
I used to be a basketball player like you, then I took the Portland Trail Blazers' training staff to the knee.
I haven't seen this yet either
Will he sign an extension with the Clippers? Is this just a one-year rental?
Hmm.. The NBA owns the Hornets...
They just traded for a lottery pick…
They own the Hornets…
They run the ping pong ball travesty…
Hmm… can you say, recruiting the next owner with guaranteed bennies?
Eric Gordon is a fine player, but it remains to be seen if he can become a superstar you build a team around
CP3 + Griffin is money in the bank. Literally. Marketing dollars and ticket sales through the roof. And maybe even in performance on the floor.
He is
but selectively. No one’s denying he was transcendent in the playoffs, but it only proves he was coasting through the regular season. I wonder how much longer he can pull that off, especially if the Hornets would have made it out of the 1st round.
I used to be a basketball player like you, then I took the Portland Trail Blazers' training staff to the knee.
But now that he's a Clipper..
you know that’s what he’ll become…
Sometimes I hate being a fan of the NBA, for reasons like this:
12/8/11: Los Angeles trades for Chris Paul, NBA vetoes the deal claiming that they don’t want ANOTHER superstar to switch from a small market to a big market.
12/14/11: Los Angeles trades for Chris Paul, NBA (apparently) is completely fine with this.
…………..
Well...
You could make the case that Stern was playing serious hardball by pulling out of the LAL deal. and that this IS a better deal. You’d probably be overestimating him but it could be argued.
I used to be a basketball player like you, then I took the Portland Trail Blazers' training staff to the knee.
I'm not sold on the Clips
Gives networks another reason to put them on tv, but they’re weaker at center now. I don’t see them winning many more games this year than they did last. They got that bouncy guy that dunks over cars and now Chris Paul. I’m not impressed.
Um
PG Paul > Felton
SG Chauncey Billups = Matthews
SF Caron Butler < Wallace
PF Blake Griffin = Aldridge
C DeAndre Jordan > Camby
I know one team they’re better than…
Sorry
Let there be no doubt that I definitely WANT the Blazers to be better than them. That response was made mostly out of frustration that we apparently weren’t anywhere near the Paul trade talks the entire time, despite being able to offer the Hornets a package comparable to either the Clippers’ or Lakers’/Rockets’.
The might not be the best place for a Lakers fan to seek solace.
You might want to try Bright Side of the Sun for that.
The Dude abides.
No Laker fan here, all Blazers
Western Conference fan though, and Paul/Chauncey/Butler/Griffin/Jordan makes the Clips a legitimate contender; I was hoping to avoid this situation by getting the Blazers to trade for Paul, thus making our team the West favorite. As is, we’re a top 3-4 team in the West unless the Lakers significantly improve, but the fact that we COULD have been so much better bums me out.
What about
the bench and the coach? Home court advantage? I think a team is more than just the starting 5?
Fair points all
I concede that I might have been too quick to make that post.
vinnie the black will have the clips operating at around 30% their potential.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
I'm pretty sure we'll win more games than the clips this year...
I’m not gonna say that I think Felton helps our team more than Paul would, but honestly, I don’t like Chis Paul, plus I’m not sure about those knees of his. HOWEVER, I’d know I’d rather have Matthews than Billups. And I’d take the rest of our roster over theirs, with the only close one being Blake Griffin/Aldridge. Think I’d take Aldridge.
I tend to agree
my biggest problem with Paul is that he’s 5’10. It’s why I like D Will better, size matters in the NBA.
Red means run, son, numbers add up to nothin
I would take
DeAndre Jordan over any C on our team.
Matty - I'd agree if it weren't for
the refereeing package that comes with Griffin. But maybe he loses that if he plays for the Blazers?
Ummmm
Chauncey Billups is not better than wes at the 2. At the 1, yes, wayyyy better, but not at SG. He’s too small.
Blake Griffin does not = Aldridge. Aldridge is one of the best offensive PF’s in the league, Blake throws down cool dunks. Aldridge is a plus defender, Blake throws down cool dunks.
Jordan = Camby
And our bench >>>>> their bench.
You are correct that Blake Griffin does not = Aldridge
Blake Griffin > Aldridge. Rebounding matters.
The cake was a lie.
by xedubx on Dec 14, 2011 5:40 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
so does defense
LMA>Griffin
Red means run, son, numbers add up to nothin
by Biph on Dec 14, 2011 5:41 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Aldridge is a decent to good defender, but not good enough to overcome such big rebounding discrepancy, as well as talent and motor.
I’ll take the athletic freak with only one year under the belt and plenty of room for growth. Go ahead and take s sixth year guy without an all-star appearance.
The cake was a lie.
I think LMA can close that gap
He was 4th in NBA in OR last season, he’s played next to very good to great defensive rebounders (ZBO, Pryz, Oden, Camby, Crash) his whole career. I also think there is some advantage to having the 6’11 guy who runs like a deer look to break rather than board. I’ll take the taller longer better shooting guy who relies less on hops, he’ll hold up over the long haul.
Red means run, son, numbers add up to nothin
Sorry, but LA will always be a poor defensive rebounder.
In terms of defensive rebounding, it’s more about technique and holding positions, which Aldridge was never good at.
it’s not like Griffin played with stiffs, either. Kaman and Jordan are pretty good front court mates in terms of rebounding.
The cake was a lie.
it's more because LMA isn't a board stealer
I agree that Blake will probably always be a better rebounder but much of that gap would be closed if LMA made more of an effort to swipe boards from teammates. I think that accounts for about 2 boards per game for guys like Love and Blake.
Red means run, son, numbers add up to nothin
Blake Griffin is a weak man-to-man defender due to his lack of length, but ...
he’s better at boxing out and crashing the boards in comparison to LaMarcus Aldridge. Part of the problem is Aldridge has got a high center of gravity, which makes it harder for him to get deep position to block out opposing players. On the other hand, though, the more sturdily built Griffin can hit the glass either by technique — which he’s sound at doing — or through sheer will.
Also, guys usually are who they are as rebounders the moment they step foot on a college court. It isn’t a skill developed later as pro, which is why Kenneth Faried was such a highly sought after rebounding specialist during the draft.
"I Am Mine"
You take Blake Griffin
I’ll take Aldridge. Call me in 10 years.
Aldridge pulls down nearly as many boards as Griffin does, plays significantly better defense, and is wayyy more versatile. He stresses a defense way more than Griffin does because Griffin’s offensive game is pretty one-dimensional.
But Griffin does throw down cool dunks…
Aldridge didn't do a lot of that stuff in his rookie year
This is in the too early to tell stage. So yeah, this is unanswerable until it’s looked at in retrospect.
I know we're all Blazer fans here
But don’t kid yourself. Griffin is an absolute monster and is not a one dimensional player. I think last season Aldridge was all around a better player but in a couple years it’s tough to think that Griffin won’t improve. 22 & 12 for a 22 year old rookie pf is pretty incredible.
Griffin is a beast
Still raw though. I agree with taking a second look at this in a couple years. Should note that LMA made Griffin look like a child last season in head to head. Blake was the equivalent of a beastly and very talented rookie though.
Give him a couple years or so and he’ll have developed more skills to go with his ridiculous athleticism.
Blake is also a good passer with a good handle.
And by good good handle I mean better than batums handle.
by Oden Mad, Oden Smash! on Dec 14, 2011 6:48 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Sure, one of them will be at least an 8 time all-star and other one once or twice.
As for rest of your conjectures, I don’t even know where to start so I won’t. Let’s just say advanced stats disagree with every one of your conjectures.
The cake was a lie.
Yeah, people have once again begun to overrate LMA around here.
It still wouldn’t surprise me one bit to see him regress some this season.
"I Am Mine"
I agree that Andre Miller's lobs were widely overstated by some folks.
Neither Miller nor Raymond Felton are anything to write home about, though.
"I Am Mine"
everything i write on here goes home.
momsabishy prints out everything i post on all my message boards and puts them up on the frij.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
Griffin needs a couple years to grow
His game was still pretty raw last season.
I never said Chauncey was better
But he’s a dead-eye three-point shooter and a good defender. He’s got “veteran experience” and “one of the smartest players in the league” on his side, whereas Wesley’s got “youth” and “potential for improvement” on his. I consider that a wash.
Agreed, I also think some people are underestimating Chauncey Billups' ability to play the 2.
"I Am Mine"
Chauncy has always been a combo guard, afterall.
by Oden Mad, Oden Smash! on Dec 14, 2011 6:51 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
yeah, he could play off the ball a bit
and nail spot up threes. seriously, he’s one of the few guys in the league that will push it down the court just to swish a pull-up three as the only member of the offense past half court.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."
by thankyouforblaze on Dec 14, 2011 6:54 PM PST up reply actions
i agree but with 1 major exception
in no universe or alternate reality, let alone in real life, is caron butler better than G wallace. How am i the first and only person to point that out.
Compare the bench
and the blazers are significantly better.
Good riddance!
I’ve been pretty sick of all this panting over C. Paul around here. Just glad he didn’t go to the new brand x team in L.A.!
RCTID
Don't bet on it...
Since Paul can be a free agent in 2012, expect the normal CP3 proposals to continue.
by Rodney Gustafson on Dec 14, 2011 6:11 PM PST up reply actions
Paul agreed to exercise his 2012/13 player option as part of the deal
So we won’t be hearing any more CP3 rumors until summer of 2013, thank God.
Sorry, I meant 2013...
Point is, in a matter of months, Chris Paul will be entering his final year on that contract, even after opting in for the last year. Then people will start with all the proposals to get CP3, since the Clippers won’t want to lose him for nothing. These proposals will completely ignore the fact that losing players for nothing is a way of doing business in Donald Sterling’s world…
by Rodney Gustafson on Dec 16, 2011 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
And the Clips made out better than the L@kers.
All in all, it is a great day to be a Blazer.
Kinda missing the 4 draft picks given that I’m now convinced that Wallace isn’t going to stay with us. But there’s a lot of time between now and march 15th.
LaMarcus has to raise his level of play. Last year he pretty much became the go-to guy for us. Nothing changes, we are certainly going to stay in that direction. - Nate McMillan
by conspirator5 on Dec 14, 2011 6:24 PM PST up reply actions
I actually think we'd be better off if he went to the Lakers
For something like a Gasol/Bynum package. Then the Lakers would have absolutely zero size and be a non-factor in the West, and the Clippers would still suck, so we’d be definitively better than both teams. As is, we’re still better than the Lakes but arguably worse than the Clips; I feel like this deal hurts our chances in 2012, as well as 2013 given that Paul’s agreed to exercise his player option.
I doubt it
Paul’s playing at Kobe’s level of knee. He turned it up for the playoffs but that won’t last forever.
I used to be a basketball player like you, then I took the Portland Trail Blazers' training staff to the knee.
Eh...his knees are bad but they're definitely not Roy-bad
Plus, with the Clips retaining Bledsoe they can afford not to play Paul as many minutes this year.
Certainly not Roy bad
but bad. And not playing Paul so many minutes is neither a long term solution nor what they want out of him. They’ll run him into the ground mark my words.
I used to be a basketball player like you, then I took the Portland Trail Blazers' training staff to the knee.
well, I think this was a nice trade
as LA Clips got TWO YEARS out of the deal, since CP3 agreed to sign for the second optional year as well.
and the Hornets got a nice collection of talent and trade assets as well. They’ll most likely flip Kaman, or buy him out if possible.
"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."
by thankyouforblaze on Dec 14, 2011 6:56 PM PST reply actions
ESPN reports that the Clippers just sold out their season tickets.
We’re through the looking glass, people.
I was thinking about buying some fix on Ebay for the game on January 1st
Blazers @ Clippers
"I was a victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."
by thankyouforblaze on Dec 14, 2011 7:12 PM PST up reply actions
But they only had 100 available..
The rest went to StubHub so Blazer fans could see them..
KEEP WALLACE!
who else is gonna show the kids beast mode?
The last couple days hasn't the league been insisting
on getting both Eric’s as part of the trade?
I’m absolutely fascinated that LA a) only gave up on Eric, and b) got two (2nd rd) picks.
How does the NBA insist on getting more, only to get less and give up more?
I JUST WANT MY BASKETBALL BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Sean in Vancouver on Dec 14, 2011 8:25 PM PST reply actions
So, I've been thinking...
In the 3-team deal that was discussed this morning, Orlando would have given up Howard, essentially in exchange for Gerald Wallace, Brook Lopez, a first round pick, and long-term salary relief in dumping Hedo and Chris Duhon.
Moreover, in place of Wallace, Orlando could have demanded that they receive all five first round picks. However, they apparently want Wallace for some reason (possibly in hopes that his awesomeness would rub off on the Amway Center, bring fire and brimstone down upon all opponents). I know that, for various reasons, the below trade is inferior to the trade that was discussed this morning, and that the trade discussed this morning itself had little to no chance of happening. I am also aware that there is no chance Howard would sign an extension in Portland. Nevertheless, I present the following for your mastication and dissection:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7n2bpsg
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
We only gain 5 wins?
I used to be a basketball player like you, then I took the Portland Trail Blazers' training staff to the knee.
Hedo's like a -82 by himself
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
by HailOden! on Dec 14, 2011 9:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Am I the only one dorking out refreshing my screen whenever I get the chance to see what happened with Crawford?
say nothing if I am
I am a little.
I used to be a basketball player like you, then I took the Portland Trail Blazers' training staff to the knee.
that ger-ald wal-lace comment
Gave me chills, I was definitely there when both the GW chants and Marcus camby chants happened….goosebumps, I love GW already and I’m excited (if we all stay remotely healthy knock on wood) where this blazer team will go but this realistically is probably our last year with both those guys sadly, Portland is thin at the 1, 2, 4, 5 but I think the future is still bright we have a great core of players and will have cap room this next year, the Broy era was great and I love that guy to death but the future is not bleak for us blazer fans with it without CP3
by trax639 on Dec 14, 2011 8:51 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Wouldn't it be illogical to keep Wallace AND Batum
Since they both play the same position? And given that we can only really keep one of them, wouldn’t it make more sense to keep Batum, given that he’s younger, is a better defender, and has a less checkered injury history?
You got the younger part right...
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
by blacknoiseNW on Dec 14, 2011 8:57 PM PST up reply actions
Wouldn't it be illogical to keep both Gasol and Odom?
Wouldn’t it be illogical to keep Jermaine O’Neal when you have Sheed, Grant, etc.?
Wouldn’t it be illogical to keep Darren Collison when you have Chris Paul (bwahahahaha!)?
Wouldn’t it be illogical to keep both Matthews and Roy?
Depth is never illogical. Trade Nic or Crash when you can get A) a more valuable trade chip, B) an upgrade in talent, or C) a comparable player on a cheaper contract.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
by HailOden! on Dec 14, 2011 9:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I have no doubt that Nic can play decently at the 2
But Crash at the 4? Doubtful at best. He’s 6-7, and though he’s got a ton of muscle the has no size for the position. And plus, if you’ve got him at the 4, that means that you’ve got Aldridge at the 5, where he definitely doesn’t belong.
I dunno...
I think an LMA, Crash, Nico, Wes, Felton lineup could run a tired team coming off a 5 game in a week stretch into the ground… Most teams in the NBA don’t have that Superman center…
Didn't I read a whole bunch of stats saying that
LaMarcus is significantly worse when he plays at the 5 compared to the 4?
Gerald Wallace is substantially better at the 4 than Nicolas Batum is at the 2.
No matter what people want to believe, Batum will be exposed trying to play the 2.
"I Am Mine"
by AK1984 on Dec 14, 2011 11:16 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You think?
He’s always seemed more like a swingman than a stretch forward, even though he was drafted as the latter.
I agree, but I do think he can play the Rudy to Wallace's Roy in a big lineup
Nate likes to put the ball in Crash’s hands, which should allow Nic to spot up in the corner, come off screens, and cut to the basket. Essentially, that would make Crash the 2 and Nic the 3, offensively, but it might be something McMillan would try out.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
This
Small Forward is the only position where we have any semblance of depth. Why is everybody so keen on throwing that away?
The smarter you are, the more likely you are to be tripping balls at any given moment.
Bring Back Dre.
I'm not "keen" on "throwing it away"
What I am “keen” on is “trading away from a position of depth to strengthen a postion where there isn’t much depth,” or, “the basic strategy of all trading in every capacity.”
Well, do you honestly think that we can re-sign both of them after this year?
We’ll be tying up 22-24 million annually to just the small forward position. That’s logical?
You suggest keeping Batum because he is cheaper then you suggest signing Batum for 13 million.
by Oden Mad, Oden Smash! on Dec 15, 2011 12:33 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Well he's definitely cheaper for THIS year
I think the two guys will receive roughly similar per-year contracts after this season ends. But if we were going to make a trade based on this year only, then it definitely makes sense to trade Wallace because he makes $8 million more.
We're working on it
trading Elliot Williams, Brandon Roy, and Kurt Thomas along with a second round pick and 5 mil cash.
I used to be a basketball player like you, then I took the Portland Trail Blazers' training staff to the knee.
by Doctor Worm on Dec 14, 2011 11:16 PM PST up reply actions
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