Wojnarowski: Union Official Calls Paul Allen "The Grim Reaper"
Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports reports that one NBPA official is referring to Portland Trail Blazers owner Paul Allen as "the Grim Reaper" for his emergence in the ongoing NBA labor dispute.
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Nevertheless, Portland Trail Blazers billionaire Paul Allen stepped out of the shadows, declared himself as the hardest line of the hardliners and played the part of the improbable boogeyman in these dysfunctional labor talks. "Here came the Grim Reaper," one exasperated union official sighed in a quiet corridor Thursday night.
Here’s the scariest part of it all for those who want labor talks to have a puncher’s chance at saving the season: Allen appears to be checking out on the Blazers, and there’s suspicion that his motives center on saving as much money as possible in this CBA to eventually ready his franchise for a sale.
"He’s gone the other way, the complete other way," a high-ranking league official told Yahoo! Sports. "He’s been the most vociferous lately that [the owners] have given up too much to the players, that they should be holding out for a hard cap, for 40 percent to the players [on the revenue split]. No one has gone after the labor committee harder about this than him."
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The piece also touches on Allen's decision to fire Blazers GM Rich Cho in May and asserts that Allen has lost interest in the organization.
Wojnarowski also reports that the Blazers considered former Phoenix Suns executive Steve Kerr and current Utah Jazz executive Kevin O'Connor for their GM position but nothing developed on either front.
NBPA executive director Billy Hunter (here) and union lawyer Jeffrey Kessler (here) called out Allen publicly for his role in the NBA's labor breakdown.
Here's Dave's take on Allen's role.
-- Ben Golliver | benjamin.golliver@gmail.com | Twitter
7 months ago
Ben Golliver
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Comments
40%?
No way the players go that low…. Well, actually. Depending on how long this goes who knows how low the Owners can make the players go on the BRI split. Aren’t they already past the point of being able to make money at this point, regardless of the BRI split (the players)?>?
Nevermind saw the fanpost. Blazersedge is weird for me
Anyone else get no side bar & only see 2 topics on the main page?
by Oden_Favre_28 on Oct 21, 2011 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, the players' share of the BRI won't plummet all the way to 40%.
That’d force something like a 25% rollback in current contracts, which won’t be conceded by the NBPA.
At best, the owners might be able to get a 53/47 majority split in the BRI if there’s a season-long lockout.
Back to the thought of a 60/40 majority split in the owners’ favor, I honestly think the players would sit out two full seasons before begrudgingly accepting such a gargantuan defeat.
Two. Full. Seasons.
"I Am Mine"
Most business models seek a 10% or better return on investment
For the NBA to return a meager 4% return on investment ($356M – Forbes) per team the players’ share of BRI needs to drop to 34%. Break even is about 49%. For every month the players fail to ‘get it’ another point may be dropped off the owners’ offer. It is pretty clear that 50% is not going to be offered again. A 40% of BRI averages players out at $3.7M per year which is far more money than most of the men who established this league earned in a career. Looking at the 54 hours of court time worked (40 min per game player) that still averages out to a number that this country cannot relate to per hour. with 20 million unemployed or underemployed in the country the time is really bad for the players to be refusing the 50% offered. They are not likely to see even near that percentage offered again.
by lee3022 on Oct 21, 2011 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
go get em Allen
I have already given up on the season so at least this is getting more entertaining
Fan of Portland Trail Blazers, Denver Broncos, and Portland Timbers
The piece insinuates he has given up too, and is readying the franchise for a sale
I highly doubt that, but it’s an interesting thought
The Screen Savers > Attack of the Show
And that’s all I have to say about that.
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((())) llbdll
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by Oh. Em. Gee. on Oct 21, 2011 2:00 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
yeah who knows
if he is going to sell and has lost interest I can’t really blame him, combined injuries to Roy and Oden and missing out on Durant might have been the final straws… but until he says he is selling no reason to speculate
Fan of Portland Trail Blazers, Denver Broncos, and Portland Timbers
by PortlandOrange on Oct 21, 2011 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions
maybe
I’m still hopeful he wants to continue to try and compete, but not have to bleed money to do it like he has in the past.
"But if Ding Dongs and prime rib were the path to NBA pivot stardom we'd all be wearing the uniform." -Dave
Paul Allen is fickle, too, so he might flip the switch from despondent to exuberant in a split ...
second. That eccentric quirk of Allen makes him hard to predict sometimes, which is why it’s too bad the Trail Blazers don’t have more stability from its ownership.
Yet, since a more calm, poised individual like Phil Knight reportedly won’t walk through that door and take over the reins, the Trail Blazers are stuck with volatility from its head honcho.
"I Am Mine"
you cant blame him?????
the hell are you talking about. if you lose interest of a team because of injuries, trades, and draft misfortunes, then you sir are not a real fan. clearly Paul allen isnt either. we have a douche bag of an owner
He's not supposed to be a fan.
He’s an owner. A businessman.
Not a very good businessman, sure. A crummy one at that, but a businessman nonetheless.
"I Am Mine"
Well then he’s in the wrong business. NBA teams don’t make money. Everyone knows Allen is just terrible in business, but not knowing a small market team is not going to make much money for 20 years?
by BRoyInThe4th on Oct 21, 2011 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
not saying me
I am down for the Blazers always, but as a owner I can imagine being frustrated through the years spending all that money and not getting a championship, might wear on a guy… again I’m just speculating we have no idea if he wants to sell or not
Fan of Portland Trail Blazers, Denver Broncos, and Portland Timbers
by PortlandOrange on Oct 21, 2011 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Mark Cuban's a pretty big Mavs fan
seemed to help that team over the years… you know, knowing your owner supports you more than just monetarily.
PA fired Cho, throwing the team and the fans into a tailspin.
I wish PA was a Blazers fan!
Mark Cuban is also from Pittsburgh.
While Cuban is a fan of the Mavericks, he’s not necessarily a fan of Dallas.
"I Am Mine"
That's not entirely accurate
He relocated to Dallas and built his businesses there long before he bought the Mavericks. So he does have some ties to the city.
But I get what you’re trying to say, and I agree.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
True, Mark Cuban isn't an outsider to Dallas by any means.
But yeah, Cuban’s allegiance is to his team and not the city it plays.
"I Am Mine"
Paul Allen is an enormous Blazer fan
How many milions have you sunk into this franchise? Or any of us? Paul Allen’s fandom is why we even have a team, saying he’s doesn’t love the Blazers is absurd
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Oct 21, 2011 8:02 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, Allen's been complaining about the "broken economic model" for years and years and years.
It’s not like this stance is new for him. I always figured that he’d pretty much lost hope about being competitive unless there were some big changes in the CBA.
So why did he get into this business?
Stick to computers and Rock and Roll museums if you don’t like the NBA’s business model.
"It all depends on where his growth will come and we think his growth will come within us" -- Kevin Pritchard on Jerryd Bayless
you can love the NBA without loving the economic model
They are not one and the same, one is simply a component of the other. I am hopeful that PA still has interest and is fighting for the long term interests of small market teams, so that we can stay competitive after he’s gone. Don’t ever forget that without PA, we are simply Minnesota or Charlotte or some other crap team
"If I had a dime for every basket I made today, you'd still suck!" - from the book 'John Dies @ the End'
by sammymohawk on Oct 21, 2011 3:18 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Absolutely true!
Do not forget that P. Allen knows well the economic model of the NFL.
I personally assume that he wants the economic model of the NBA to get closer to that of the NFL.And that would give the small market teams a better chance.
Allen's one vote.
There ar 29 others. 24 or so are in markets of 3 or so million to 5 million. They’re the ones this is being negotaited for. The union officials are deluding themselves if they think it’s about Allen.
The reason they are right, however, is that he delived the final message that killed any hopes they had of playing until they first agree to a 50/50 or so revenue split, and give up on much, if any, of a soft CAP. If they didn’t get it before – they’ve got it now. They clearly were hoping for trade-offs on the split vs. the CAP. They now realize that’s not in the cards. Rather than lose on one front but get some-kind of a win on the second, all they have is a lose-lose, at least from their perspective. Which is why Allen didn’t respond when they asked about the over all package. Until the first two steps are done, issue’s of bird rights, ME’s, Amnesties and the rest cannot be settled because those are often not part of the revenue split, and if the owners are reigning in salaries and determined to create a level playing field, then items in excess of the split will not be settled until the first two are.
So, give it time to sink in. Then, the leadership, bitterly I have no doubt, will eventually have to come back to the table.
Agreed - and we wait while they figure it out
The greed is not in the owners. They have $1.8B reasons to back their lack of greed. They cannot break even until they get players’ portion of BRI down to 49%. They cannot have parity until they achieve a hard cap or near one.
The owners broke it. They own it. So it's their right to fix it.
These franchises are businesses. They exist for the sole purpose to make money. If this were not the case, then they’d be non-profits or charitable foundations. Owners have a right to expect their businesses to make profits. With that said – shouldn’t they also get to decide where to cut costs in trying economic times?
The owners understand that they messed up a long time ago by standardizing outrageous contracts and player salaries. Shouldn’t they be allowed to fix that? If you mistakenly swerve into a lane of oncoming traffic there’s no such law that says you must now stay there and pay the ultimate price for your action! You are allowed to fix the situation by returning to the correct lane.
I understand the importance of unions, their reps, and lawyers. I’m all for workers rights and fair wages. But I also know that their top two priorities in labor contract negs are these two things: Never giving up ground and advancement. And these apply regardless of what financial turmoil an economy or business may be going through. Can’t say i blame them in that that’s what they’re paid to do – represent their members in that way. But i do find it to be a rather idealistic rather than pragmatic way of looking at things.
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
by Net Ranger on Oct 21, 2011 2:47 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
You dare to talk sense???
This is often the lonely voice in the wilderness. But it is interesting that last spring most fans around the country sided with the players. Since then the owners have documented their positions and the players are left with empty rhetoric. So now most see what you see. Well said.
by lee3022 on Oct 21, 2011 6:22 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would certainly hope that Allen does NOT sell the team...
But, as speculation goes, it sounds plausible.
Sigh.
I'd love to see him sell the team IF he would sell to someone who is SANE.
I believe the Blazers would stay in Portland because they have a strong fan base. So if Allen is trying to level the playing field so the Blazers can actually win a championship….making the Blazers a more tempting team to buy…fine.
Maybe the new owner/owners would actually run things in a SANE manner. Keep GMs like Rich Cho and bring the training staff up to the 21st century in it’s methods!
Allow me to throw a wrench into the gears of the rumor-making apparatus
with the following:
“Meh.”
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by Oh. Em. Gee. on Oct 21, 2011 2:56 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
say what you will about PA but...
He does have a nearly impeccable 2 decade history of foregoing financial gains in order to make the team great. I don’t think anyone should listen to Sarver or Sterling, but if Allen takes a stand then the players union ought to hear him out. He’s been one of the good ones, historically. Who knows what his motives are going forward, but it is unfair of the union to insinuated that he has no interest in the league and only cares about the bottom line. What owner has been willing to pay players more out of his own pocket for such a long time?
"She fell in love with the drummer, another and another"
by Cap'n Crash on Oct 21, 2011 3:04 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
yeah, a lot of players certainly cashed in ...
And when one owner jacks up salaries, all players benefit.
Wake me when the game is on.
Woj's stance doesn't make sense
If Allen always checks out and goes home, and if he is so rich, and doesn’t care about money, then why even bother going to meetings to manipulate the CBA into making Blazers more valuable. Seems like a stretch.
i like it here, there, everywhere.
I look at it like this.
1. Paul Allen will care again if he can make the Portland Trail Blazers profitable, since that’s all he can have due to the team currently being non-contender. And yes, it’s a non-contender.
2. If Allen can neither win nor turn a profit, then he says screw the NBA and screw the Portland Trail Blazers. Besides, Allen has got bigger and better toys to play with in Seattle with the Seahawks and Sounders F.C.
"I Am Mine"
the blazers are profitable.
allen is definitely making money off of the blazers. anything and everything else you’ve heard to the contrary is an absolute lie. Dont be naive.
well, you seem to have evidence that every other credible source who disagrees with you does not
so, links please?
"But if Ding Dongs and prime rib were the path to NBA pivot stardom we'd all be wearing the uniform." -Dave
Audited Financial Statements disagree
As long as independent auditors express their opinion on his financial statements that they present fairly the position of the company and the results of its operations for the stated period you have a hard time providing contrary evidence. Those auditors have access to all of the company (team) records. I suspect you and I have zero access.
Of course you can listen to the rhetoric from the players – but even they stopped whining about the numbers last spring when presented with the audited financial statements for each team and the NBA as a whole.
by lee3022 on Oct 21, 2011 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
i also hope you were joking about the seahawks and sounders
or i have absolutely no respect for you at all
I'm not kidding, especially about the Seattle Seahawks.
The Seattle Seahawks are my #1 team, with the Seattle Mariners being #1A.
Yet, I don’t really care about soccer and am not emotionally invested at all in the Sounders F.C.
Casually, I hope they do well in the 2011 MLS Cup Playoffs and continue to advance in CONCACAF Champions League. I don’t actively watch any of the games, though, and just follow them by online.
"I Am Mine"
I think he still cares, or else he wouldnt have gone to the meeting.
Regarding other toys, basketball is his first and biggest passion right after technology.
i like it here, there, everywhere.
True, Paul Allen has a special place in his heart for the Trail Blazers.
As a Seahawks fan, though, I consider that a good thing. By only being quasi-interested in the NFL, Allen allows the football operations department to do their thing — which gives GM John Schneider and head coach Pete Carroll freedom over all player personnel decisions — thus, he doesn’t muck things up like he’s prone to do when interjecting his lack of sports acumen with the Trail Blazers.
"I Am Mine"
As an NFL owner and NBA owner
He likely sees that the NBA business model has been run into the ground by Stern and the Stern-ites and realizes that the NFL is doing pro sports model right. “Stay in the NFL business Paul” is what his gut is telling him becausde he can be a fan AND make money hand over fist. The NBA is broken and he’s right, the palyers do have too much.
You can not doubt Woj info on any NBA related topic or rumour, 95% of the time he is right on the money when it comes to this stuff and insdier information.
can we please see how that 95% figure was calculated?
i’ve doubted woj so often that i’ve pretty much stopped reading him.
by williamswonder on Oct 21, 2011 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions
seriously wth
"The worst thing for the Blazers are not the injuries, but Paul losing interest," said a league official connected to the organization. "And once he loses interest in anything, he doesn’t want to deal with it anymore. He can’t win anymore, so he’s going to literally take his ball and go home."
PHILLY!
that is the part that doesn't make sense
If he doesn’t want to deal with it, then why is he there? Woj is reaching.
i like it here, there, everywhere.
I do think this whole Allen angle is being completely blown up
He was there as a messenger of the (apparently in the majority) hard-line owners. All this other stuff from Ben and Awoj about his eccentricities, quirkiness, past transgressions, aloofness, cold-hearted nature, etc, are just noise around the perimeter designed to deliver a face to blame. He’s a REAL easy target.
At the end of the day, he and a lot of other owners want major changes. Maybe it’s just about money. maybe its’ about the system. Likely it’s about both. All the stuff about motivations and disinterest and selling, etc. is all just noisy and messy conjecture.
"But if Ding Dongs and prime rib were the path to NBA pivot stardom we'd all be wearing the uniform." -Dave
by douglast on Oct 21, 2011 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
"All this other stuff [=] noise around the perimeter designed to deliver a face to blame. He’s a REAL easy target."
On the face of it, that sounds right. Knowing Paul Allen, though, it’s possible he’s “lost his smile” — which is a pro wrestling reference from the ’90s for you non-geeks out there — and may very well be so frustrated that he wants to walk away out of spite.
If nothing else, Allen is definitely peculiar; thus, it’s hard to decipher what exactly is his motive. Heck, sometimes he may not even fully understand his own motives.
"I Am Mine"
Agreed
This is not a rational actor we’re talking about here. Add to that his billions of dollars, and any inkling of impulse control Paul Allen may have once had is now nil. He could be completely over the Blazers and the NBA at this point – and that could also change tomorrow.
Kevin Durant won me over when he went Rocky IV on Russia this summer.
by blazeraddict on Oct 21, 2011 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree Doug, this is just more BS being thrown out by disgruntled players (and a certain former Denver GM)
You're a bit off about Mark Warkentien.
The information that Warkentien gave Adrian Wojnarowski weren’t shots at Paul Allen, but rather Kevin Pritchard.
Here’s an example:
“Kevin was in a constant battle to position himself to get credit away from Nate for whatever success they were eventually going to have there," one NBA executive friendly with both said. "Nate knows enough not to flap his gums and pound his chest – especially when your team hasn’t even won a playoff series yet. He’s secure in himself, in a way that Pritchard never knew how to be.
"If Kevin just kept his mouth shut, cut out all the arrogance and insecurity, I think he probably would’ve had his extension a long time ago."
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-trailblazers032210
If anything, Warkentien was angling for Allen to hire him as Trail Blazers GM once Pritchard was canned.
That didn’t happen, though.
"I Am Mine"
allen's spending is also part of the reason why the financial model in the nba sucks
crappy judgements by him and management drove him to dole out hundreds of millions of dollars to the likes of miles, kemp, ratliff, francis, etc, just in the past decade alone.
PHILLY!
False perspective
The players were guaranteed 57% of BRI regardless of who gets it. Paul Allen’s payroll relieves Indiana from paying extra. If Pau; does not pay it others have to. His desire to win, over the desire (most owners) not to lose money sets him apart as one of the very best owners from a fan perspective.
Woj has the same credibility to me as a gossiping housewife.
If any other writer wrote this I might worry, but because it’s him I’ll dismiss it out of hand. I have absolutely no respect for either him or his “sources”. This guy makes money by making fans panic.
by Druid on Oct 21, 2011 3:35 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Huh?
He’s got the pulse of the agents, so you better take his sources as credible.
Also, nobody cares — or at least nobody should care — that you’d “dismiss it out of hand” or slam him with some disrespectful “gossiping housewife” jab. In fact, that says less about him and, well, more about you.
"I Am Mine"
I was going to make this exact same reply.
It takes a bit of evidence to accuse a respected journalist of making up sources, a serious ethical allegation with occupational consequences.
His constant real contact with NBA insiders is revealed in how often he lands personnel scoops.
I am trying to determine if both of you are using sarcasm?
‘Respected’, ‘credible’ and ‘journalist’ do not describe the writer on Yahoo Sports who consistently uses his podium to attack and sensationalize stories and people. Those words, my friends, do not belong connected with most Internet writers. Whether it be sports, politics, economy or international issues, today’s writers have no editors, no accountability and no objective except to drive ‘hits’ on web pages. Think shock jocks on radio (who admit they deliberately say false things to anger the listeners) now moved to Internet pages.
by lee3022 on Oct 21, 2011 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not taking sides here, I don't really keep up with what A-woj has to say usually,
but how can people have such differing opinions on what he has to say? You outright dismiss what he says as gossip/fear-mongering (and you’re not the only one who I’ve heard say this), while many others think the exact opposite and claim what he says is usually spot-on or at least pretty accurate. It can’t be both, which one is it?
Woj is the king of trolling blazer fans, then BS and Canzano are next
However, Woj did have the pulse on the entire KP story.
i like it here, there, everywhere.
im going to jump on the its all over bandwagon
micro, mike rowe, my crow
The tensions are so high because the stakes are so low!
Sounds like we are close to hearing
“Fans are you ready???? For your Seatttttttlle Trail Blazers”!!!!!
Allen has earned it, no matter what Awoj says
By my estimate, Allen has willingly wasted at least a half a billion, all out of his own pocket, in insane player contracts in the past 15 years. If there is one human on the face of the earth who has earned the right to walk in to the negotiating room and say “enough”, it’s him.
Look, it’s no secret that Awoj hates Allen, and much of his vitriol is fair game in my book. But you can just feel his glee oozing out of his article because he extracted the “Grim Reaper” quote from a jaded union official.
"Ted Thompson's running Brett Favre out of Green Bay was the biggest mistake by a GM in the history of the league."
-Skip Bayless, November 2008
by The Cactus Leaguer on Oct 21, 2011 4:09 PM PDT reply actions
OK, how about "appears to have a strong distaste for some of Allen's business practices"?
"Ted Thompson's running Brett Favre out of Green Bay was the biggest mistake by a GM in the history of the league."
-Skip Bayless, November 2008
by The Cactus Leaguer on Oct 21, 2011 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Long Term Damage?
Do you think this incident with Paul Allen could affect The Blazers ability to attract and/or keep free agents in the future? Could the mere portrayal of Allen as Anti-Player and a Hardline Owner make some players think twice about signing with The Blazers?
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
Doubt it
As long as the Blazers are the best offer on the table, I think they’ll get players. Now, if Allen transforms into a penny pincher like Donald Sterling coupled with his off kilter personality, that may be a problem
Kevin Durant won me over when he went Rocky IV on Russia this summer.
by blazeraddict on Oct 21, 2011 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Paul Allen has nothing else better to do than own a sports franchises. When you have everything then I imagine a new Ferrari on Christmas just doesn’t do it anymore. This man owns a team of world class athletes, some of which are celebrities. I doubt Paul Allen has lost interest in that.
maybe Allen has decided the only way for a small market team to compete for an
NBA championship, is to be able to level the playing field..probably others in small markets want a hard cap, REAL revenue sharing…and a 50/50 revenue split.
So his stance may have nothing to do with his wanting to ready the team for a sale.
Here is my dream scenario....
1) the owners (i.e. Paul Allen’s position) get most of what they want
2) the season begins after Christmas
3) Allen sells the team in the next year or so
4) someone (Phil Knight-I don’t care that he says he doesn’t want to be an owner) buys the team and wants to keep it in Pdx
5) the team’s buyer also brings another pro team to Pdx-the NHL at a minimum
This dream makes me very, very, very happy!!
5)
if phil knight becomes the owner,
he’s probably going to want the NBA to start using Nike for uniforms and balls instead of Adidas. makes sense though, cause Nike already sponsors most of the shoes. imagine the pull he’d have on some of the guys Nike promotes. he’s already got his big project in ducks football, though.
If we listen to the union whine we deserve to be deceived
The union has failed. Simple truth. They have failed to understand the financial situation. They have failed to prepare their players for very large cuts. They have failed to convince the owners of their sincerity. They have failed to gain empathy from fans who include 20 million unemployed while winning about not getting offered $7M average per year. If we listen to the garbage coming from the failed negotiations we deserve to be deceived.
The owners have offered 50%. They lose money above 49%. But the players want more and Dwyane Wade says the owners are greedy. Paul’s presence at the negotiations contradict this story. He does not need the money. He does value his time and could only show up to help strengthen the league. Chances are high that the owners asked him to come and be the heavy (if he even was.) Wojnarowski’s reputed long time source (league official) was not there according to news stories. These stories come from player agents and players who slip info to Wojnarowski through the season and now expect him to print their garbage during the lockout, It is a pretty safe bet that Paul Allen has never been a source for him.
Frankly the issues are really clear and fall mostly against the players’ positions. We will apparently have to endure their slow-learner process until they ‘get it’.
by lee3022 on Oct 21, 2011 5:58 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Ahem....
They lose money above 49%
and yet…The Golden State Warriors Just Sold For a A Record 450 Million.
Talk is cheap. Money is not. Especially 450 dollars worth of money.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Oct 21, 2011 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions
The owners talk. The union talks.
450 million doesn’t need to talk. It sits as the proof we all need to put the owners’ claims into a “grains of salt” perspective.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Oct 21, 2011 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions
you continue to conflate sales prices with yearly operating income
the two things are very different.
the Bay area is also a pretty good market. Ask Charlotte’s last owner how he enjoyed selling his team for $50 million less than he paid. Ask the 29 league owners how easy they are finding it to sell New Orleans.
you can cherry pick sales prices examples in a vacuum all you want, and keep spouting the same point on every thread you come into – but at least address the counterpoints people keep raising.
"But if Ding Dongs and prime rib were the path to NBA pivot stardom we'd all be wearing the uniform." -Dave
Then cut a few franchises from the league.
That would only make the NBA better IMO. There are plenty of issues here, including a lack of true profit sharing, inflated middle class player salaries, and salary cap structure.
But quality of product should be number one. The league consistently puts out a tepid product. Shedding a few teams would instantly improve that.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Oct 21, 2011 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
"Then cut a few franchises from the league."
I’m with you. As I see it, a 24-team NBA would be a way healthier and more balanced league.
Now, unlike a lot of people, I’d stick with a full 82-game schedule, as well as keep the current playoff system intact.
In fact, here was a recent post of my on this subject:
“[…] immediate contraction from 30 to 29 teams — with league-owned New Orleans receiving the old heave-ho — and then trim it down further to 24 teams in around five years. By 2017, Charlotte, Indiana, Milwaukee, Memphis, & Sacramento — which are hemorrhaging money, have aging ownership, and/or have cheap ownership — ought to be on the chopping block.
EASTERN CONFERENCE
Atlantic Division
Boston Celtics
Brooklyn Nets
New York Knicks
Philadelphia 76ers
Central Division
Chicago Bulls
Cleveland Cavaliers
Detroit Pistons
Toronto Raptors
Southeast Division
Atlanta Hawks
Miami Heat
Orlando Magic
Washington Wizards
WESTERN CONFERENCE
Midwest Division
Denver Nuggets
Minnesota Timberwolves
Oklahoma City Thunder
Utah Jazz
Pacific Division
Golden State Warriors
Los Angeles Clippers
Los Angeles Lakers
Portland Trail Blazers
Southwest Division
Dallas Mavericks
Houston Rockets
Phoenix Suns
San Antonio Spurs
http://www.blazersedge.com/2011/9/26/2450619/contraction-arguments#78576728"
The problem, though, is contraction is likely off the table. Even if it’s a distinct possibility, the only two franchises that can be axed in the next year or so are the New Orleans Hornets and the Sacramento Kings.
What happens then?
Well, I guess the NBA could do a slight reshuffling of its conferences and divisions to create this alignment:
EASTERN CONFERENCE
Atlantic Division
Boston Celtics
Brooklyn Nets
New York Knicks
Philadelphia 76ers
Toronto Raptors
Central Division
Chicago Bulls
Cleveland Cavaliers
Detroit Pistons
Indiana Pacers
Southeast Division
Atlanta Hawks
Charlotte Bobcats
Miami Heat
Orlando Magic
Washington Wizards
WESTERN CONFERENCE
Midwest Division
Denver Nuggets
Milwaukee Bucks
Minnesota Timberwolves
Oklahoma City Thunder
Utah Jazz
Pacific Division
Golden State Warriors
Los Angeles Clippers
Los Angeles Lakers
Portland Trail Blazers
Phoenix Suns
Southwest Division
Dallas Mavericks
Houston Rockets
Memphis Grizzlies
San Antonio Spurs
Also, with regards to the Charlotte Bobcats, I can’t realistically see a Michael Jordan owned franchise folding, even in spite of North Carolina being ill-suited for professional basketball.
Yet, I can think of an area for Jordan to relocate the Bobcats and still be held in high esteem by many across the world: Chicago.
Not only is metropolitan Chicago a large enough market to house two NBA teams, but it also has two mutli-purpose arenas. That way, Jerry Reinsdorf’s Chicago Bulls could still have the United Center all to themselves and Jordan’s Chicago Whatchamacallits have Allstate Arena in Rosemont, Ill. as its home.
Yet, Reinsdorf would most likely throw a tantrum if such an idea was presented; plus, he can probably block a potential second NBA franchise from coming to metropolitan Chicago rather easily.
Heck, if Larry Ellison can’t buy a NBA franchise to relocate to San Jose for a second Bay Area team, then it’d be practically impossible to get a second team in metropolitan Chicago.
"I Am Mine"
You've got one sale that backs your opinion
Nola, Charlotte, and Philly speak to the contrary.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
The first two should be deleted. Philly is a good town and will recover.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Oct 21, 2011 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Now you're just being unreasonable
And I don’t mean about contraction. There’s a perfectly legitimate reason that only 4-6 owners are ready to make a deal without a 50/50 split.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
Sales prices reflect future valuations and much longer refinancing periods than a season or two, plus whatever intrinsic value a buyer puts into owning a team in a very limited market with just 30 available items
To use an example from the world of tech and finances, Groupon will go public this quarter, at a valuation of 10 to 11 billion dollars. Their audited revenue last quarter was only 430 million, at a loss of 10.6 million. (Groupon initially fought those numbers, and believed it should be even better under different non-standard accounting principles.) In the previous quarter, the loss was 102 million. So despite still making losses in the present and the general economic model behind their business in some doubt, you still couldn’t get the owners to sell it to you for $1 or even $1 billion either since they know the market gives them a better valuation already. The company valuation might go down a lot in the future if the model is proven to don’t work, but right now that’s where things stand.
Maybe the Warriors will never earn their new owners 450 million in profits to recoup their investment. Maybe they will if they hold the franchise as long and as profitable as say Donald Sterling. Maybe the next time the team sells for 100 million or for 1 billion depending on how the league develops. Right now the owners want an economic model under which they can be profitable in most seasons. I don’t know at what percentage of BRI that threshold would be, but it seems to be somewhere south of the 57% for the players in the old model. The league and individual franchises should also look into expanding revenue instead of mainly focusing on bringing cost down in future seasons, but that takes more time and is hard to predict so they start with what they know about. And that is cost-cutting quite a bit from the current level, plus sharing of the available revenues to where most teams can reasonably expect to be close to profitability.
Well said.
I’m not anti-owner per se, but the franchises are great assets to have, especially when associated with other brands and products. Owning a team is a luxury but the owners are acting like the dad who slept with 5 different women and now he has to pay child support. Well, boo hoo, indeed. Tell it to Jerry Springer. Sorry the players didn’t jump at the chance to take 25-20% reductions in pay while a team sells for $450 million dollars. Sheesh. Sensitive owners.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Oct 21, 2011 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions
All but a few teams are losing money, and many are legitimately hemorraging
I would say having sex with 5 women is a lot more satisfying than losing millions.
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
I just wish the NBA could open the doors and start the games with whoever is ready to play.
That would be entertaining to me. The think about stardom is, it is a RELATIVE thing. Patty Mills is a big star in Australia, relative to the other players. If you are clobbering the competition, that tends to be entertaining to the fans. Just get some competition going. I would personally be delighted if Kobie, Garnett, Pierce, etc refused to lower themselves. Ta ta….
Wake me when the game is on.
Patty sucks.
I love the guy but I’m really not interested in watching the male version of the WNBA.
/s
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Oct 21, 2011 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
To Lee3022
While I agree with what you are saying overall, I think that your financial takes have been a little simplistic (although to be fair, the financial issues are complex and frankly impossible to dial down into a sound bite).
When you say that owners lose money above 49%, you are assuming that all of their costs vary directly with revenue when in fact they do not. So, although I do side with the owners on this one, if the players were offering a “flex cap” between 50-53% depending on other factors (assuming revenue), I don’t think that is something that should be automatically dismissed. Well actually I do think it should be dismissed, but it should at least be given a fair shake first.
"Ted Thompson's running Brett Favre out of Green Bay was the biggest mistake by a GM in the history of the league."
-Skip Bayless, November 2008
by The Cactus Leaguer on Oct 22, 2011 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
No worries, he won't cause a total loss of games. We all know that seasons don't fear the reaper.
Who's that tromping across my bedge?
by Troll Blazer on Oct 21, 2011 7:36 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Paul Allen as the 'grim reaper'
is like the Sta-Puft marshmallow man as the demon monster in Ghost Busters…
Wake me when the game is on.
I honestly just
want to watch some freaking basketball!
LET'S PLAY SOME DAMN DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!
by Batum Shakalaka on Oct 21, 2011 9:31 PM PDT reply actions































