Trying to answer to Bill Simmons
Bill Simmons: All right, I'll ask: why did it take until October 18th for us to have a
marathon 16-hour NBA labor negotiating session?
Because players are not going to sign a deal involving many sacrifices, compared to the
previous one, before the owners show, by absorving some real damage, their serious
willingness to fight for that new deal. And agreement before some games were
cancelled was never an option, so it had no sense to keep negotiating until real pain
started.
The union´s team of negotiators would have been crucified by many players, agents
and media (you too, Mr. Simmons) if they had signed the deal they will have to sign finally,
once and because real damage has been made, so they have shown they tried hard
to get the best available deal.
Many politicians know that they will be out of the job if they impose sacrifices on people,
trying to anticipate a solution for a future problem, before people have felt the direct
effects of that problem. It has always happened in Spain with fishing. We lost most of
our resources because politicians were afraid of taking protective measures, which
would have been fought by the fishermen with protests. Then, when there were no
fish, and fishing boats were coming back to ports with no product, the same fishermen
asked to take those measures they were opposed to before. So that´s when
politicians, these who know how to survive in this dirty job, react. Always a
little bit too late, once real damage has been made to the people they ask to accept
real sacrifices. People worried about greenhouse effect understand what I´m talking about.
Some politicians try to anticipate a reaction using the "fear about the future" weapon,
trying to increase people´s level of tolerance to sacrificies. And it works, but only partially.
That´s why Stern has put on the table his "observation" "season is in jeopardy",
while Billy Hunteris trying to avoid any responsability for all the damage coming soon,
by saying that sacrifying half of the season was part of the owners strategy from the
begining, what Stern tries to deny by saying how much the owners have lightened their
demands. And so on.
Sadly, I think both parts have put themselves in position to force negotiators to explore
the painful way. And, as some of you have said, the players will double their pain with a
lost season and a worse deal.
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Very nicely put.
Now all we need is the rest of the roster to get into "how can everybody help Nicco and Oden" mode. -- Oden Mad, Oden Smash! Sep 29, 2010 7:47 PM
I've heard this stated before
Humanity is very good a dealing with immediate problems but can’t do anything about impending disaster until after it occurs.
What you say has merit, but I don't think it answers the question he asked.
There’s a difference between agreeing to a deal that one side or the other doesn’t think is fair, and earnestly trying to reach a deal.
This is the first sign of any effort to getting the lockout resolved, and it started over 3 months ago! Where’s the urgency been all this time?
Holding out for Devyn
Maybe I didn´t explain it well.
I meant to say that negotiations are, in fact, starting now, after real damage has been made and more damage has been anounced. They were not going to reach a deal before. Well, that´s not fair, they actually gave it a try with the 50/50 BRI split. But KG (the most vocal fisherman) and his friends came into the room and shot any posibility down.
Now, with real damage on the table for so many people, not only players and owners, you have long meetings if only to justify you´re not the bad one who didn´t even try. By the way, these long meetings might be useful against fear of having the “you didn´t try enough and accepted a bad deal” thrown at them.
I think I see
One difference here, in my opinion, is that some of the owners actually WANT the damage, because they believe that inflicting it is the way to get what they want.
The whole thing seems indicative of a leadership vacuum. The owners are split into their own factions, and the same for the players. Billy Hunter is just doing what he can to keep his job, which is not necessarily what will end up best for the players.
Holding out for Devyn
Yeah, the owners understood that they have to accept damage to get a deal.
And it´s true the owners are split as you say.
Regarding the players, I suspect some agents have been pushing his clients (Wade, KG, Kobe, Lebron, etc) against an agreement, and those agents have used the BRI split as an excuse to attack the NBPA negotiators. Because what they really are afraid of is the tax, which would distribute salaries more equally, with no cost for the players as a whole. Agents will fight for their few big clients. The many small clients are not that hard to keep and satisfy. They are not all like Rudy.
Some more about agents
The agents are going to live with this CBA all the way through and the next 2 or 3 as well while most of the players today will not see the next CBA. So the agents (who get a % cut of their clients’ contracts). especially of the superstars, want to fight signing this one. My point is the agents have more to lose in caving than in holding out.
The difference in owners is entirely the big markets vs the small markets. LA, Chicago, Miami, NY (both) want to cave because they make far more money from their local TV contracts than other teams. They also do not want to level the playing field with a hard cap. With maybe a couple of exceptions the vote will be 25-5. That is not a rift to me. A rift is 14-16 or 15-15. I do not believe there is any rift in the owners. Of the 460+ players, perhaps 400 want to be playing tonight. The superstars hijacked these negotiations. Will they continue to hold sway? With Fisher being jerked off the stage by Hunter and then reneging on the 50-50 agreement the players are rapidly choosing up sides.
KG, sensing the talks are going nowhere...
Throws a wrench in the machine to help his Celtics win one last championship
With an aging Pierce, Allen, KG… He knows a 50 game season will better their chances not to tire out before the playoffs.
Anything to win… he can’t help himself, it’s in his nature
as I replied to Simmons on twitter last night
it’s a stare down. Neither side is going to budge until there are outside pressures. they could have sat in a room for 100 hours straight back in August, but no one would give an inch, because in August the pressure isn’t on yet. Games haven’t been missed – aren’t even close to being missed, nobody’s missing paychecks yet, etc.
at some point just telling the other side your position over and over again is no longer productive. The only thing that can change the equation is outside pressures and influences. Quite often, and definitely in this case, those only come with the passage of time.
"But if Ding Dongs and prime rib were the path to NBA pivot stardom we'd all be wearing the uniform."
and the saddest point
is that if they were working together to make a better NBA for the new now, who knows how cool it could be in the future….as it is, they will compromise about how to split a status quo scenario that may or may not come to pass with the ever changing reality of cultural tastes, technology, etc….
The fans are also stakeholders in this analogy
but rather than having a vote, as in politics, we have our wallets.
The sobering thing is that I know I will be waiting, wallet in hand, for this whole thing to end. After which, I will continue paying to watch NBA basketball just like normal. I will not “change my vote” in the slightest.
My wallet is my voice here. And my voice says that I simply do not care who wins or loses. And if you’re hanging out on Blazersedge after 3 months of NBA lockout, you’re probably just like me.
Holding out for Devyn
by T$ 225 on Oct 19, 2011 12:42 PM PDT reply actions 5 recs
"And if you’re hanging out on Blazersedge after 3 months of NBA lockout, you’re probably just like me."
That made me lol. So true…
No way to credibly signal resolve short of sacrificing games
true for both sides
by PoliSam on Oct 19, 2011 9:22 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Simmons podcast
Just finished listening to his podcast with the Ticketmaster CEO. Great stuff. Listening to it makes you realize that the players should have taken the 10 year offer at 50% and ran with it. The existing revenue model is in deep trouble.
"Ted Thompson's running Brett Favre out of Green Bay was the biggest mistake by a GM in the history of the league."
-Skip Bayless, November 2008
by The Cactus Leaguer on Oct 23, 2011 8:55 PM PDT reply actions
From out of the past
Many years ago I was the department rep to our employee association. Negotiations went on and on. Finally a contract was offered. The employee leadership advised us to (in my words) “take the money and run”. But the greedy employees voted “no, it ain’t enough”. We had to go to binding arbitration and ended up with less than we had been offered. Sometimes people only see $$ instead of what is realistic. I can only guess where the NBA truth lies – and like T$ 225 I really don’t care; let’s play ball!!

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