Blazers Fail Miserably At Using D-League But Cho Is Near Top Of Class
by Ben Golliver on Sep 7, 2010 9:30 AM PDT
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PrintOver the past few weeks, Matt Hubert of DLeagueDigest.com assembled a panel of D-League experts to systematically grade how well each NBA team uses the D-League. They then standardized the rankings to a 4.00 GPA scale. It's believed that they did this to make the process even nerdier than it already was, if that was possible.
The results are pretty intriguing. The Blazers finish 24th out of 30 teams with a 0.89 GPA. Following the Blazers are a bunch of terrible teams (Clippers, Nets, 76ers, Pacers) plus the Hornets and the Magic (who might not know there is a D-League). Portland's failure is one of neglect: Patty Mills is the only Blazer to have been assigned to the Idaho Stampede, the affiliate franchise the Blazers share with the Nuggets, during the last two seasons.
What's more interesting, though, is that Rich Cho's former team, the Oklahoma City Thunder, finish in third place with a 3.75 GPA, behind only the Rockets and Spurs. Remember, Cho oversaw operations for the Thunder's D-League affiliate, the Tulsa 66ers. Other model franchises like the Jazz and Celtics also score very well.
You can read the site's assessments for both the Thunder and the Blazers here.
In the past, Portland's standard line has been that rookies learn more by staying with the big club and experiencing NBA life. Given a bulging roster situation and an expected depth chart that will find three rookies no higher than third string at their position, it's probably a good time to revisit that logic. Would one or all of Portland's rookies benefit from some minor league court time? And shouldn't the world be treated to some grainy Youtube footage of Elliot Williams 720 degree helicopter dunks in front of 750 South Dakota fans?
Another question that I think should be revisited: How is Paul Allen cool with sitting by and watching Clay Bennett own and operate this competitive advantage?
-- Ben Golliver | benjamin.golliver@gmail.com | Twitter
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Not mentioned...
Is the Blazers use of the Spanish ACB League.
by Joetothemo on Sep 7, 2010 9:36 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
It would help to have the players sitting on the bench to stay in BB shape.
I know the D league to many rookies is like getting cut from the varsity to the B string in high school, but They get to play all the time and that should help
hg
Do they not play a bunch in practice?
Against top NBA talent (the starters)?
"I come to you now, at the turn of the tide." -- Brandon "Gandalf" Roy, April 24th, 2010
According to players who have been both in the NBA and in Europe, there´s much more practice there than in the NBA.
Too many games and too many long trips in the NBA.
Maybe playing against top NBA talent when you are very raw doesn´t help to build confidence either.
How is Paul Allen cool with sitting by and watching Clay Bennett have ANY competitive advantage?
Born Naked
by Y5k on Sep 7, 2010 10:01 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
The real question is
is what are teams doing to develop NBA players other than real game court time?
The Blazers who could have played D-League:
2008-2009:
Aldridge, Rodriguez, Roy, Bayless, Fernandez, Outlaw, Blake, Frye, Oden, Przybilla, Webster and Batum all saw a good amount of court time;
Ruffin and Randolph were veterans; LaFrentz was injured.
new guys in 09-10 were Denier, Camby, Howard, Miller, Cunningham, Pendergraph, Tolliver, and Mills. Only Denier (a 4-year vet), Tolliver, and Mills didn’t play. Tolliver was traded to a team that would play him, Denier was too vet, and Mills went to D-League.
From the 2009 Draft, they got Claver (playing in ESP), Pendergraph (NBA), Cunningham (NBA) and then Mills.
I don’t see how the Blazers could have realistically done more with the D-league.
M, period. Fresh, comma.
sounds right.
They’ll probably use the D-League this year because they have lots of young talent, and no playing time available. This has not been the case in the past.
Dumb/inappropriate rating.
I think NA (not applicable) would have been closer to accurate.
by damonrayhymer on Sep 7, 2010 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, last year they couldn't afford to have people in the D-League
because someone was going down to injury every eight seconds minutes hours games.
If the Lakers had half the injuries McMillan had to contend with last season, they’d have lost at least fifteen more games than they did.
Can Abbrederis shoot the long three and effectively distribute the ball to his big men?
"Because one of the great minds of the 21st century is raising glow-in-the-dark fish and weaving serapes..." -Leonard Hofstadter from The Big Bang Theory
For all the crap we give Wil Wheaton, he can still tackle better than Asante Samuel...
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Sep 7, 2010 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions
That's my point, I guess.
If the Blazers had a use for the D-League, I doubt that they would have resisted the urge.
It seems pretty simple, really: Gather young talent, groom young talent. The D is a great place for young players to get the work they need to build on the talent that got them drafted in the first place. No room in the rotation? Off to the D.
by damonrayhymer on Sep 8, 2010 7:17 AM PDT up reply actions
If there's no ridiculous injury bug
then the D-League WILL get put to full use.
A repeat of last season’s injuries is highly unlikely AND unwanted.
Can Abbrederis shoot the long three and effectively distribute the ball to his big men?
"Because one of the great minds of the 21st century is raising glow-in-the-dark fish and weaving serapes..." -Leonard Hofstadter from The Big Bang Theory
For all the crap we give Wil Wheaton, he can still tackle better than Asante Samuel...
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Sep 8, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Since the Idaho Stampede aptly replaced sloppy up-tempo coach Bob MacKinnon, Jr. with one-time NBDL ...
MVP and two-time All-NBDL First-Teamer Randy Livingston, the club should go away from YMCA ball and return to the ballclub’s successful reign in the D-League — which was from 2006-2007 through 2008-2009 during the Bryan Gates era — when it played more slow-paced, pro-style basketball. On that note, I’d be down with Elliot Williams and Armon Johnson being assigned to the D-League for a decent period — so long as neither one of them aren’t needed as an injury fill-in down in Portland — ’cause it should do them some good to get extended playing time.
I’d be down with Elliot Williams and Armon Johnson being assigned to the D-League for a decent period — so long as neither one of them aren’t needed as an injury fill-in down in Portland — ’cause it should do them some good to get extended playing time.
This^
I don’t think Babbit will be sent down, but these two should—as long as Miller-Roy-Bayless-Matthews and Batum are healthy
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
If Babbit has a dependable jumper,
at the NBA level, I might agree w/ you. It seems likely, however, that a short run through the D might serve to keep him fresh while he waits for his opportunity. You know Coach is going to call Cunningham’s # long before Luke get any play.
by damonrayhymer on Sep 7, 2010 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not that I think that Luke couldn't use the time down in Boise
but he’s the #1 draft choice who Martell was traded to acquire
so to send him down is a more weighty PR decision than re: Williams and Johnson
Besides, I see Babbitt as having a late-game “sniper” role where he can enter the game and stand in a corner. The main thing LB needs to work on is his defense, and he can learn that more quickly by working out against Cunningham and Batum
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I see your point about LB's defense,
but I find the Martell argument less than compelling. Blazer Brass has never really cared what anyone thought, PR wise, unless there were empty seats.
by damonrayhymer on Sep 8, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
expectations
if Luke is sent down, the fringe fans will see that as a demotion
it’s not a huge concern, but I can see the front office resisting this idea. Even though the previous administration did “send Marty down” early in his career after he was selected #6
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
he wasn't "sloppy"
Playing up tempo was a strategy to get players into the NBA. I don’t see anything wrong with that.
M, period. Fresh, comma.
That was a part of it, yes.
Yet, with that said, it shows how lazy and/or ill-informed numerous paid talent evaluators are if thay can’t account for pace when scouting someone.
Lies, damned lies, and....
C’mon AK, really? All you have to do is “account for pace”?
What, I can just factor in your team’s pace versus the D League pace, and adjust the numbers of the D league player by that ratio? Who knew?
I guess you must be assuming that pace doesn’t change shot selection, how contested the shot is, how winded the opposing defenders get (and thus play less D)…. right?
Here's an interesting article about Bob MacKinnon, Jr., pace, and manzell's above point.
"The great thing about basketball is that it’s a player’s game," MacKinnon said. "When I got the job last year, I figured ‘What’s most important to the players?’ The most important things are minutes and numbers. Points, rebounds, assists, that kind of thing. As a coach I thought, ‘What can I do to take some of their concerns away and make it more about winning?’ I thought if we could get our possessions up, the way that we play will be determined more by possessions than by minutes. If we get our possessions up, the numbers will take care of themselves."
http://dleaguedigest.com/2010/01/11/a-refreshingly-blunt-explanation-for-the-idaho-pace/#more-214
Thankfully, MacKinnon, Jr. is gone from Idaho and has been replaced with Randy Livingston. The guy didn’t seem to recognize that per-minute/pace-adjusted numbers are the correct way paid scouts should evaluate talent, which makes me shake my head in chagrin.
720 degree helicopter dunks?!?!
Show me!!!!
"I come to you now, at the turn of the tide." -- Brandon "Gandalf" Roy, April 24th, 2010
He wore a t-shirt under his jersey...
- sigh *
Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ???
Phase 3: Profit!
by HailOden! on Sep 7, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
To be fair, this was HS footage, where everyone wears a T.
They just do not know any better at that age.
I will run naked through the streets if Oden wins the MVP this season...happily.
Gratzie!
Although I must watch again for the 720’s…
Blazers!!!
"I come to you now, at the turn of the tide." -- Brandon "Gandalf" Roy, April 24th, 2010
It's a beautiful failure....
Yes, I think it’s true. Given our roster make up during this rebuilding cycle and Portlands drafting a lot of foreign players we used “Over Seas” as our developmental league.
I don’t sweat it. If your NOT using the D-League? Just means to me you don’t have a lot of “D” league players hanging around.
I think The Blazers relatively recent history has been to use the D league very reactively. In other words, we send guys down for short stints to keep them moving…and for quick exposure and playing time….
I think in general it’s a sign of success that The Blazers have had enough confidence in the majority of the players that end up on the roster, to NOT want them playing seasons in the “D” league.
I think there are advantages that The Blazers have benefited from being able to keep players “hidden” in Europe while retaining their N.B.A. rights….
I also can’t really think of a player I think we had directly on our roster that I thought actually deserved or should of been in The D League.
I don’t have a problem with how The Blazers have used the “D” league recently. If we draft less foreign players and in the future…we might have to adapt how we look at the “D” league…but The Blazers application has fit the reality of the roster..imo that is what you want….
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
If it's a sign of success, why do successful teams like the Spurs, Lakers or Celtics use the d-league much more?
"Listening to the media only increases your odds of failing at whatever you are doing" - Mark Cuban
by Norsktroll on Sep 7, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because...
..imo what you want to do is use the D league in a manner that best develops the players on your roster…The Blazers have done that. The application has fit the reality of the roster. Truth is our marginal or project players recently have been by design overseas players. Giving us the freedom to retain N.B.A. rights, while not using a roster spot. Their development has taken place overseas on respective european teams. If we had signed a Koponen or Freeland to a roster spot, not only would that tie that spot up but THEN I think you consider having those players play in the D league. IMO Not having to commit a spot for those players and NOT having to send them to the D league…is succesful use of the entire system.
We have not been in the same place as The Spurs, Lakers or Celtics in recent years. It’s all about adaptability…I have no problems with how The Blazers have used the D league, given the players and rosters we have had.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
Pendergraph
would be an ideal player to put in D league. NBA ready but could use work on one aspect of his game. Giving him more playing time to address a key weakness in D league would make him a better asset long term by letting him play rather than be a practice player.
Jeff Pendergraph, however, doesn't have much left in him to develop; he's pretty much an established ...
commodity due in part to age, 23, and limited talent respective to most NBA players. Down in the D-League, I’d rather have Elliot Williams and Armon Johnson spending time and improving their game. The D-League, moreover, is a guard-centric place, so Williams and Johnson would get to be heavy focal points together as a backcourt tandem.
Still if a club has to use D league teams
to develop talent what does that say about NBA team’s being able to assess talent?
In Portland's case, it'd be a matter of an overloaded 15-man roster that has room to develop a ...
couple of its younger players down in the D-League without hurting the depth of the big league club.
If NBA teams used D league like MLB uses the minor leagues
then ok. But do teams actually develop skills in D league. It always looks like run and gun time to me.
Well, the Idaho Stampede were coached last season by a run-and-gun guy -- which I'm ...
fairly sure Patty Mills loved during his stints there — yet, I hope things change this year with Randy Livingston at the helm.
not to mention
the Blazer assistant coaches (like Monty) liked to have their hands on the youngsters on a regular basis, to work them out and chart their development
it’s 6 of the one half-dozen of the other, do you want the kids playing regulalry in the D-League and possible developing bad habits, or do you want to have daily control over what they’re working on, so you keep them with the team?
Mills was the only player who needed that extra run in recent seasons, and that was probably because he was coming off a foot injury and wasn’t getting enough practice time during the season (mainly because the rest of the players were either injured or already playing steady game minutes)
As long as everyone in the backcourt are healthy this year, Williams and Johnson should be candidates for the D-League. But the Blazers should make sure that what the kids are being taught in Boise dovetails with the Portland’s system, as much as possible. That’s how they do it in minor-league baseball, anyway
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Williams and Johnson would get to be heavy focal points together as a backcourt tandem.
And hopefully develop some synergy in a 5-on-5 context, as opposed to playing 1-on-1 or 2-on-2 every other day against each other in practice (along with Cunningham, Babbit, Pendergraph, etc)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Right, and they're also two of the five players eligible for the D-League -- which is discounting ...
Patty Mills, as he’ll hopefully be elsewhere by the start of the regular season — who’d benefit most from being in Idaho. For all intents and purposes, both Jeff Pendergraph and Dante Cunningham are finished products; plus, Luke Babbitt could maybe have a small role (e.g., 8 minutes per game) as a floor spreader playing alongside Cunningham at the forward positions. At worst, they’d be fine to have around for garbage time.
Even if the rotation is trimmed to 8 players to start the season — Greg Oden (30 m.p.g.), LaMarcus Aldridge (36 m.p.g.), Nicolas Batum (28 m.p.g.), Brandon Roy (36 m.p.g.), Andre Miller (36 m.p.g.), Marcus Camby (30 m.p.g.), Wes Matthews (20 m.p.g.), Jerryd Bayless (24 m.p.g.) — Pendergraph, Cunningham, and Babbitt should be on the active roster along with an emergency point guard (e.g., Earl Watson), who’d be signed after Rudy Fernandez is hopefully traded elsewhere (e.g., Chicago) for a future first-round draft pick and Patty Mills finally leaves town for somewhere that he could get a backup gig (e.g., New Orleans).
Thus, in the end, the inactive list would be filled with Elliot Williams and Armon Johnson receiving experience in the D-League, as well as Joel Przybilla on there nursing his devastating knee injury.
along with an emergency point guard (e.g., Earl Watson), who’d be signed after Rudy Fernandez is hopefully traded elsewhere (e.g., Chicago) for a future first-round draft pick and Patty Mills finally leaves town for somewhere that he could get a backup gig (e.g., New Orleans).
This^
It’s a good idea, I wonder if Rich and Nate see the need? Miller has been a horse, but it only takes one bad spill and the Blazers will be woefully inexperienced at PG
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I agree that I'd sent Pendergraph to the D-League, but...
Usually players aren’t finished products at age 23 and moving into their sophomore years in the NBA. Jeff might be, but we don’t know that yet.
Same goes for Dante.
Give it a few years and we may see you’re right. They may not evolve and improve their game at all. But I don’t think that’s the norm for NBA players their age with their experience playing professional ball.
Portand drafted Pendy and Ferno in '09
because they were 4 year seniors who were more-developed than some of the high school kids that were drafted during the rebuilding period (2004-2006)
this year, they drafted juniors and sophmores instead (and no Euros, for the first time in awhile)
As I’ve said before, I don’t know that drafting 3-4 rookies every year is the best way to continue for a team that’s preparing to play in the finals. I understand the desire to stockpile assets, but there has to be a mechanism where the youngsters have a chance to develop during real game situations from Nov-April. The D-league may become that mechanism for Portland, but it’s important that the instuction the kids receive while playing for Boise dovetails with Portland’s system, so the “keepers” can be plugged into the regular rotation when the need arises, and they’re deemed ready to contribute
For all we know, this could have been one of the things that Rich and Paul discussed during their 3 hour chat off the coast of Finland, last July
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
It kinda makes sense though...
PG had enough depth throughout the season that they could afford to send Mills to Idaho. But its kinda hard to relegate someone to the D-League at the 5 position when the only serviceable bigs are Aldridge and Howard.
Mills & Tolliver
Before getting called up to the NBA Patty was getting 30 pt games and Tolliver was beasting it with huge double doubles for Idaho. I can’t see how the D-League serves as a legitimate training ground for these guys, the standard and style of D-League competition just isn’t good enough to prepare them for elite NBA competition.
A recent statistical study showed that d-league call-ups performed as well or better than late first round picks in recent years
It wasn’t perfectly set up, but just the notion is quite stunning to the minds of most fans and many GMs.
A number of players that have been “sent down” by teams using their own d-league affiliates more intensively have improved significantly, and teams that made good use of the option to call-up players from any team as the current model still allows (no true minor league system even though some teams own or hybrid-own DL teams) have also benefited from it. Golden State e.g. would not even have been competitive at all last year without those DL players with all their injury problems. Some decent success stories over the years include Kelenna Azubuike, Chuck Hayes, Matt Barnes, Louis Amundsen, Chris Anderson, Ian Mahinmi, Devin Brown, Will Bynum, Jamario Moon, C.J. Watson, Sundiata Gaines (who hit a game winner for Utah last season, the also “found” another good players with Othyus Jeffers who is an NBA talent), Dwayne Jones who now has a contract with the Suns, former Blazer Ime Udoka, Mikki Moore, J.J. Barea, Ramon Sessions, … You won’t find or develop the next Kobe in the d-league, but you can find some talent.
I don’t think it should be a top priority on Cho’s to-do list, but it should be something he looks at until next season to see if there is another source of competitive advantage that so far has gone unused.
"Listening to the media only increases your odds of failing at whatever you are doing" - Mark Cuban
by Norsktroll on Sep 7, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bingo...
With Paul’s deep pockets (a) we should have our own D-League team, not share it with another, and (b) he should be buying 2nd round picks left and right to stock the best damn D-League team around!
Definitely a source of competitive advantage that so far has gone unused. (And, I want to have our own team so we can stack it with ‘our system’ guys, and use it as a way to develop assistant coaches, as well as future NBA players.
i thought d league guys counted against the 15 man roster
given that, i’m not sure how paul allen or any owner could stack up their d-league team.
I’d love to see an analysis of teams when it comes to international scouting. I’m willing to bet we’re near the top of the class there.
"You know, when you are in the game, you hear 20,000 people behind you, you don't feel anything."
- Nicolas Batum on playing through his shoulder injury during the 2010 playoffs.
Since D league doesn’t seem to have much impact on the NBA, I doubt that making effective use of the D league is much of an asset to most NBA teams. If you’re a team that finds one of those occasional cases of a really talented guy in the D league, then it probably has an impact. But in that case it should be a pass-fail grading system with the vast majority of teams getting a fail.
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