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The Enigmatic Problem Named Greg Oden



Do you remember the day The Blazers drafted Greg Oden? It seems so much longer ago than it really has been. A delirious fanbase with sudden dreams of not only N.B.A. success but potential domination. Face painted fans, coming to cheer the simple announcement, the video feed of the event, and rushing an empty Rose Garden court to simply enjoy the unbearable lightness of being that the announcement that The Blazers had selected Greg Oden with the #1 pick.

Star-divide

 Those memories have too quickly gained the sepia toned cracked lines of an aged film.  It already seems like looking back on archival news reel footage of world war II, both interesting, amusing and horrific and sad in light of what we know today.

No I haven't given up on Oden. Seriously I have not. I thought before his last injury he was showing most of the promise that made him The Blazers choice. But we have to admit a lot has happened since he was drafted and most of it hasn't been good.

A big problem I think we have now with Oden is what to do with him contractually. Do we pursue a contract extension? Do we risk NOT pursuing a contract extension? The problem if Greg Oden is allowed to become a free agent, is what The Blazers probably "should" offer Greg Oden, is not aligned with what other teams probably would be willing to offer Greg Oden. The Blazers become a victim of our perspective. To us, he's our #1 pick that through bad circumstance and injury reality- has not really been able to contribute consistently. And that's being kind....

To other franchises? Greg Oden is "new". He's a high cost gamble, but one that could pay off big time. You could make a high cost, short term gamble on a Greg Oden...and you might acquire one of the best young centers in the N.B.A. or you might adopt more of the challenges The Blazers have already faced. Nobody really knows. But my fear is some other franchises are going to be willing and ready to take that risk. Which put's The Blazers in a horrible place.

Unfortunately I'm speculating...but I don't feel Oden has had the rookie, early years, N.B.A. experience in Portland that would create an unbreakable bond. In other words, I don't think Oden has a Tim Duncan/San Antonio like loyalty to Portland. This is a kid that before all this happened admitted that he likes Sun and Beaches.... so we can't count on Oden simply deciding he wants to stay in Portland...after all it's arguable that he might just want to seek new Mojo in a New Location... 

Couple that with Oden having shown just enough potential I think to entice large offers from franchises desperate to keep up with the rapidly forming Super Teams....and you have the perfect storm of Rich Cho's nightmares. Karmic payback in Salt Lake like sized proportions. Pay Oden what he is likely to garner on the open market, deserved or not? Your taking a very high priced gamble. Let him go? What if all his problems are behind him? What if he does become the superstar you drafted? You just made legendary blunder status.

So what is the best case scenario for dealing with the enigmatic problem that is Greg Oden? The best thing that could happen for The Blazers is that Oden have a fantastic season....the worst thing that could happen for Rich Cho, would be that Oden have a fantastic season...How do you negotiate a fair market value for a player that could either become a franchise cornerstone...or (and I hate to say it) is a bone crunch away from not being N.B.A. viable? And I dare anyone to really be able to say which is the more likely.

I suppose I'm getting a little ahead of myself. I suppose I'm speculating. But do you expect The Blazers to try to get Oden to sign an extension...and if so is that wise?  I would say the very first step in defining Oden is to see what he can become or cannot become this season. That means playing him, without bubble wrap and seeing what emerges...and either we like it, or we don't. We can't really afford as a franchise to protect and shelter Oden, because as a franchise we need to know what he might be physically capable of contributing...or not.

Things seemed so clear, bright and sharply contrasted when we won the #1 pick and a young GM named Kevin Pritchard exclaimed "Rip City is Back!".  It all seems so long ago....

Comment 62 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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Extend him for one more year - to postpone this tough decision

Give him $12 million for another year. By then we’ll have more info to make a better decision.

Can we do that?

by BendTenor on Sep 2, 2010 11:18 AM PDT reply actions  

no way Greg signs that deal.

I don’t see an issue, at least not as big of one as the OP does. If the Blazers can get Greg to sign an extention before the season for a discount then great, they should do it. If I was Greg or his rep I would also like this option because of the pending CBA, it is far better to get a deal done now than to wait out for a CBA that could be much worse for player contracts. Even if Greg takes a lesser deal, it could still be worth more than what a new CBA would allow.

IF they feel better by waiting until this season is over to evaulate Greg more, that is cool too. Greg will be a restricted FA, meaning the Blazers can match any offer he might get. There are only 2 types of offers he will get, a big long offer, or a big short offer, which one he will get will depend on how this season goes. I expect the Blazers to match anything he might get from other teams, because he will deserve it based on his play. There isn’t a team in the NBA that is going to offer Greg a 6 year max deal if he gets hurt in game 1 and doesn’t play the rest of the season, so I think we can just through that type of worry out the window. No team in the NBA has more invested in Greg than the Blazers do, so he is worth more to them, then he is to any other team in the league. My guess is that Greg will once again play well this year, and finally be healthy for the playoffs, the impact he makes there will determine how big, and how long of a deal he will get from the Blazers.

by usmcr3049 on Sep 2, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree

I’m not worried at all about the situation. I’m confident Greg will be a productive player, and that we’ll end up paying fair value.

Look at it from a point of view outside Blazer-land: can you imagine if the Blazers offered some gigantic contract to, say, Yao? Granted, Yao has proven himself in the NBA, but he’s also proven to be injury-prone, the career-ending kind, even more so than Greg.

No one is going to buy Greg out from under us. Worst-case scenario is we are forced into a sign-and-trade.

by superfly05 on Sep 2, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

question:

could you weigh and illistrate (and mind my spelling) the senarios that would happen if.

1. he became a restricted free agent and had his contract matched… what happens to his bird rights, and the cons of this move. …. vs.

2. just extending him forever. over and over and never letting him sniff free agency.

that would make it simpler for alot of us i think. after that a vote would be interesting! :)

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!

by faith on Sep 2, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

There really is no difference

His bird rights are the same in both options you gave. Even if he hit unrestricted free agency, the Blazers could still use his bird rights to sign him to a contract, (that is if the CBA keeps bird rights in tacted). Bird rights only allows a team to go over the cap to retain one of it’s own players.

I think the best option is #2, just because if it plays out that once Greg signs this deal, the Blazers should extend him at the end of it, instead of letting him hit UFA, because if he did he could pull a Lebron and bolt.

by usmcr3049 on Sep 2, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

that is if the CBA keeps bird rights in tact

This is my concern re: GO. If Portland leaves Greg’s contract situation hanging, heading into the lockout, and on the other side the CBA rules change and before you know it Oden shows up down in south beach

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Sep 2, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

o

hehehe… I always thought that if we let them hit restricted free agency, we lost bird rights… now don’t I just feel goofy.

Semper fi!

Thanks Usmcr3049

*walks away shaking my head

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!

by faith on Sep 2, 2010 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Portland would match any deal he would get.

Utah will not offer him more than he is worth, just to try and screw the Blazers, they don’t have the financial backing to play that game like Portland does.

by usmcr3049 on Sep 2, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Who?

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!

by faith on Sep 2, 2010 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol it's the hair

it’s a turn off when i’m prettttttty sure she’s got brown hair naturally

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!

by faith on Sep 7, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't think that Utah

is in the financial position to offer him an upfront $13 million bonus…..

by Storyteller on Sep 2, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kirilenko's salary is coming off their books

are the rest of the extensions to their players enough to bring them up close to the luxury tax threshold?

Regardless, I think they’d rather pursue a sure thing FA rather than a big man with ??. After all, they’ve already got Fesenko ;^)

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Sep 2, 2010 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

more so than the salary cap

Utah had to take out a loan to pay Milsap up front, so I agree with Storyteller, that I don’t think they will gamble on offering that type of deal, because frankly Paul Allen can afford to match it, and they can’t afford for him to not match it.

by usmcr3049 on Sep 3, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ever hear of Mormon belly dancers?

It’s not always about cash, Storyteller.

by MiledAnimal on Sep 2, 2010 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

It looks like the next time they'll have money is 2012...

if Deron Williams doesn’t pick up his player option.

They could dump one of Al Jefferson or Mehmet Okur (or Deron Williams) for an expiring before the next trade deadline. Considering those are two of their main rotation bigs, there would have to be something wrong for that to happen IMO.

by poster on Sep 2, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

It can be done

but why would Portland do it? Right now, he’s on track to be a restricted free agent. You sign him to that contract and he’s an unrestricted free agent in 2012. I’m not convinced that Greg wants to leave the Blazers, but why tempt fate?

by Storyteller on Sep 2, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Roy and Aldridge are better cornerstones than most franchises have

and with the veterans will make the playoffs every year. With the young players contributing and getting better (Bayless, Batum, Matthews, Cunningham) we can afford the kind of “high risk / high reward” prospect that Oden is (perhaps even better than most teams). With Joel coming back before the ASB and Camby on board, we have done everything we can to ensure ourselves. At some point we will need to get a replacement for them, but that is well worth the cost of a possible healthy Oden for a playoff run. Talk about any piece in the nba that could be the difference between first round exit and championships…

by Sir.Ludo on Sep 2, 2010 12:18 PM PDT reply actions  

Im pretty jaded at this point

A best case scenario would involve Oden staying relatively healthy this year, and us signing him to a 3 year deal.. Obviously, if he is healthy and productive, he will want more than that. This is the whole problem!! If he plays well this year, we may be forced into a monster contract just to keep him around, and then we just wait around to see if he can stay healthy for any amount of time… Honestly right now, I am so sick of this wait and see thing with Oden, that i wish it would all go away….

by CarcusMamby on Sep 2, 2010 12:21 PM PDT reply actions  

Regardless of what happens this season

his next contract shouldn’t go past two years or so and should be heavy on incentives. If he’s the player we think he can be this season, I’d have no problem with $12 or $13 million per year (60-75 percent guaranteed). If he continues to have health problems or struggles to perform, I’d offer more like $10 million per, same proportion by incentive.

by Charon on Sep 2, 2010 12:58 PM PDT reply actions  

unfortuately

The CBA prevents that type of deal. Incentives can only be a small percentage of the overall value of the contract, (10 or 20% I think, but I can’t remember off the top of my head)

by usmcr3049 on Sep 2, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought it was 25%

Larry Coon’s Salary FAQ backs that up:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q64

You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.

by austinpwnz on Sep 2, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

25% sound about right

The team could make the final year only partially guaranteed for 60-70% of that years value, (If they exteneded him out enough years) but not the whole contract.

by usmcr3049 on Sep 3, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

WE NEED TO CEMENT GREG INTO A LONGTERM DEAL

After this contract, Oden is a restricted free agent. After his next contract, he is unrestricted. So the perfect contract is one where the Blazers have Oden longterm, but at their option.

I see a minimum 3-year deal, with a year four option.

The tough thing is deciding fair value. Oden would not want to undercut himself, and the Blazers would not want to guarantee money to someone so injury prone.

Good Luck, Rich!

In KP I trusted!

by LaoTzu on Sep 2, 2010 1:15 PM PDT reply actions  

Oden's contract is likely a moot point at present....

There are 4 scenarios outlining this in my opinion, as follows:

1. Greg becomes significantly injured again (God forbid). In this scenario, the “wait and see” approach is lifted. It’s obvious to everyone that he is badly injury-prone, and cannot be counted on as a viable piece of the future line-up. The team management will continue to build through trade, free-agency or draft towards a consistent big man presence, that looks beyond Oden, because they will have to. So the contract for him is a moot point in the very large sense. He won’t get good trade value or big restricted offers that we can or cannot deal with.

2. Greg is a 70 game player (or so), realtively injury free and dominates, as was initially expected. With the other (healthy) weapons the Blazers possess, the team goes deep into the playoffs, and gels around him as center. The contract here is a moot point. You sign him to a big long term deal (probably after the season is over, so you can see how he does in the playoffs). No other team possessing this force would do otherwise. Any restricted offers are pretty obviously matched by the Blazers. Game On!

3. Greg stays healthy, but his production including fouls, post-injury mobilty, and statistcal effectivenes shows a moderate presence on the floor, but not really a game changer. In essence he’s a role player. The contract here is relatively moot also. No other team knows him better than our management does: medical issues, BBIQ, team chemistry issues, personality issues. We are likely to take an offer in trade, or let him be lost to retsricted free agency IF the chips are there in the first case, or too much in the second case. Again the Blazers management will have a full evaluaution package together at this point, and may have already been looking at building around other options in the middle, or dual options in the middle. Only makes sense.

4. Greg shows SOME injury proneness, but dominates when he is healthy. This is, IMO, the hardest scenario to evaluate of all. But I think the same thinking applies here, as in scenarion #3. You have the inside scoop on him, if someone wants to take on the issues, for what looks now to be a very regularly injury-prone player, you evaluate the trade-offs, benefits, costs, etc. and make an informed decision. In this scenario you would have already, during the season, been looking at trades of some sort anyway, because Greg would have been out a fair amount. So I think it’s a moot point as well. No team is going to lock down their future on a player at that position that can only be on the floor half the time.

In any event, I believe the Blazers only long term need (after this summers’ aquisitions) is a strong back-up/future project at center. In other words, a young Pryz, 7’0", plus size, with weight. All the other positions look pretty good. So, they may try to find this kid in the future. If Oden turns out to be fine, great! If not, you’re working toward the future still, and have options.

Buddy is a goooood dog!

by nascent on Sep 2, 2010 1:46 PM PDT reply actions  

good analysis

I outlined those scenarios on another site a couple months ago, and came to very similar conclusions.

1. He loses a significant amount of time due to one injury. You cut him loose. If some other team signs him, and he becomes a stud, so be it.
2. The dominant guy — you have to sign him to a big contract, but I would caution that it would need to be an incentive heavy contract. Surely Greg and his agent are smart enough to understand that. Most of those incentives would need to be based on games played.

3. I actually differ slightly from you hear. I think this is the hardest scenario. A guy his size, even playing that role, is fairly hard to come by. Then you have to start thinking about what KP called “replacement value.” If another team offers him money, you have to consider your ability to get another guy who does what Greg does for less money. And how many years do you offer him? How has the rest of the roster developed? This is a very complicated scenario.

4. Some injuries, but is dominant while healthy. This is largely a situational issue. What were the injuries? Did they involve contact? Are they freak accidents like last year’s. I think it really matters what the injury is and how it happened. If they are muscular or soft tissue type injuries, those are going to happen. If they are more bone injuries, then I think you get pushed into scenario 1.

by hercher on Sep 3, 2010 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

I hope number 2 happens. Then 3, then 4, then 1.

Well, it’s either 3 or 4 as my number two option. Do I want a consistent Oden playing “half” of his pontential, or do I want an injured Oden who, when healthy, still dominates. Number 4 beats 3 ONLY if that means playing a certain amount of game a year, but assuming being injured means being out a quite a while, I would rank 3 as my number two option.
But I think Oden will land between 2 and 3, but landing closer to two. It’s not to say that he is weaker, but just saying he’ll have to start off slow, and he can work his way back to pre-injury status.
Go G.O.!

by Hopman27 on Sep 3, 2010 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

it's easy - give him a contract that's largely incentive-based

give him a 3-4 year deal, with a guaranteed base salary of around $6-7M. That way he’s getting paid, but if he doesn’t pan out we’re not paying out the nose for him could even buy him out for a reasonable amount

Then, the rest of the money is incentive-based. If he plays X amount of games, he gets $. If he makes the All-Star team, leads the league in blocks, etc., he gets $. Long story short – if he’s healthy and performs, he gets paid like one of the best big men in the league. If he doesn’t, he gets paid like an average player.

The bottom line of the whole Oden contract situation can be expressed in 2 concepts:

1) Oden’s potential is too great to lose him in free agency or to have contract issues

If he’s healthy, he’s one of the top bigs in the league and instantly makes us a title contender. Without him, we are just an average, pretty good squad. You can’t let his deal or expire or let another team have a shot at him. You have to lock him up, and hope he delivers. His potential is too great, and our team’s success is too linked to his, to proceed otherwise

2) Paul Allen is our owner – we can overpay or leave some money on the table to try and hit a home run

One of the luxuries of having one of the richest owners in the league is that, while it’s still important to be financially responsible, we can overpay players and take chances on guys in pursuit of a championships. A contract for Oden would qualify as the latter. I made the same argument for Wesley Matthews – if the guy can help us win a title – pay him and get him here. How much do you think Paul Allen cares about $6-10M a year if we’re winning titles?

by rip_city_swagger on Sep 2, 2010 2:16 PM PDT reply actions  

Max incentive % is 25%

And I agree with you. 6-7 mil plus incentives means he can get up to 9-10 mil a year.

You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.

by austinpwnz on Sep 2, 2010 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

asfsd

is it possible to do that: the incentives part? Is it legal for Allen to just give extra $ just for milestones accomplished?

by Hopman27 on Sep 3, 2010 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

The CBA has two type of incentives that teams can use in contracts

the first is likely incentives, they define these type as ones that the player has achieved in the past recently, for example they could put an incentive in Greg’s contract that he if he plays 20 games he gets “x” amount of money, since Greg played in 21 games last year, this would be a likely incentive.

The 2nd is unlikely incentives, these are milestones that the player has never reached, an example of this type of incentive for Greg would be him making the all-star game, or playing 82 games, etc…

The 2nd kind can only be about 25% of the total value of the contract, but the 1st can be more I believe, as such the 1st kind are also included in the salary cap hit I believe.

So while the BLazers can put some incentives into Greg’s contract, they can’t offer him a deal with a 50/50 split of guarenteed money vs incentives.

by usmcr3049 on Sep 3, 2010 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Greg Oden is our only chance of being a contender and winning an NBA championship

Roy, LMA, and Batum are not going to win a championship or even be a contender without Greg Oden.

So unless the Blazers are certain that Oden will not be an impact player (due to injury) they MUST re-sign him to a long term contract (at least 4 years with probably another team option year). There is no other option (unless some team offers us a superstar in trade for him – which is very unlikely).

Contract Options Under the Current CBA

1) The Blazers can extend Oden by Nov 1 (as they did with Roy and LMA last year). I doubt the Blazers will make any acceptable (to Oden) offer by Nov 1. That was a bigger possibility until we learned that Oden is likely not going to be ready to go 100% in the October preseason games. It seems like a slimmer possibility now.

2) If the Blazers don’t resign GO by Nov 1 they must make him a one year Qualifying Offer ($8,788,681) to prevent him from becoming an unrestricted free-agent (the worse possible thing that could happen). If he decides he wants out of Portland for some reason he can sign the qualifying offer, play one additional year (2011-12) with the Blazers, and then he becomes an unrestricted free-agent. This has very rarely happened, but it is the nightmare scenario for the Blazers. It seems even more unlikely for GO. Because of his injury history he will probably want a long term contract and not risk a one-year qualifying offer.

3) The Blazers can also make what is called an additional Maximum Qualifying Offer. That is a 6-year guaranteed, maximum salary offer. It is doubtful the Blazers would make such an offer considering Greg’s injury history.

4) If GO doesn’t sign a Qualifying Offer he becomes a Restricted Free Agent on July 1. The Blazers can continue to negotiate a new contract with GO, or he can sign an offer sheet with another team. The Blazers can match any offer sheet, so that isn’t anything to worry about unless the offer sheet is for fewer years than the Blazers would want. The offer sheet contract must be for at least 2 years, but GO will almost certainly not take less than 4 years.

The one major unknown in this process is that option 4 starts on July 1, and therefore will actually be under the terms of a new CBA. The new CBA could change the process of Restricted Free Agency, and even eliminate it altogether. However, it unlikely that a new CBA would suddenly make all pending free-agents unrestricted. There would probably be some grandfather clause that would apply to players in Oden’s situation that are caught in the transition between CBA’s. Nevertheless, no one can really say now that will happen, so that could be a reason for the Blazers to try to get Oden extended before Nov 1. The new CBA will also probably limit maximum salaries (at all levels of experience in the league) so that could be a reason for Oden to want to get an extension done before Nov 1. So perhaps there is still a chance something will get done by Nov 1.

"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Sep 2, 2010 3:12 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

I'm being educated here about contract realities

My 4 scenario approach above was, I admit, more of a conceptual approach to how Oden evolves this year, and how one evaluates his role in the future depending upon those scenarios. The contract realities, problems, exigencies are too above my head. So the realities may be quite different from the evaluation process.

Buddy is a goooood dog!

by nascent on Sep 2, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was just laying out the options in the current CBA process.

But I think the decision on what to do about Oden is binary. The Blazers will either believe he will regain the mobility and athleticism he showed for the first time in a Blazer uniform last year or they won’t. If they do, you keep him at all cost because he, and he alone (in the near future), can get you to a championship. But you have to have a long term contract (at least 4 years with a 5th option year) because Oden needs time to develop the skills to get us to that championship, and the team wants multiple bites at the apple to succeed.

That doesn’t mean you start out offering him a max contract. Contract negotiations are a complex game of chicken and the Blazers (under the current CBA) have the advantage since they can always let him sign an offer sheet and match (assuming he isn’t willing to sign the 1-year qualifying offer, which I don’t think he would). But you can’t let Oden get away unless you are convinced he won’t get his mobility and athleticism back.

"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Sep 2, 2010 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

The binary approach allieviates the grey area, which I think is important to review...

What if it isn’t readily apparent (my last two scenarios)…he’s always injured 50% of the time, but great when healthy…or he’s marginalized due to post-injury limitations, healthy but not the same?

Buddy is a goooood dog!

by nascent on Sep 2, 2010 5:13 PM PDT reply actions  

alleviates…(sigh……..rookie)

Buddy is a goooood dog!

by nascent on Sep 2, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hopefully it will be apparent by April that Oden has regained his mobility and athleticism.

If not, the Blazers will be spending a lot of money on doctor’s and specialist’s opinions.

"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man." - Matty Walker in Body Heat (1981)

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Sep 2, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

WORD!

Buddy is a goooood dog!

by nascent on Sep 2, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Incentive-laden is obvious, how many years is tough... how much is tougher..

I believe that if Greg is healthy come playoff time, that the Blazers are a title contender. I’ll believe that for the next 10 years, if Greg is still with us. So personally, I’d like to see us offer him a deal that:

1) maximizes the number of years we can sign him for (6?)
2) maximizes the incentives (25% seems to be the consensus)

In this way, he can get a big number contract, but we get 6 more chances of striking it rich and having Oden play in the playoffs. And the more he plays, and the more we win, the more he makes…

I know, sounds easy, but the devil is in the details… But get it done, Rich!

by Visionary2 on Sep 2, 2010 6:33 PM PDT reply actions  

The Overweighting Of Oden....causes this situation to be veiwed irrationally.

Without reviewing him this year…objectively…how can a reasonable assessment be made. Most people in any corporation would be reviewed before handing them a major contract. My point is there are 3 scenarios vs. 1 scenario that are potentially problematic. Is it possible that Cho will NOT consider Oden’s issues after this season’ results…Wouldn’t that be foolish?

It just seems that too many people are willing to sign up here without this season’s WATERSHED results.

Buddy is a goooood dog!

by nascent on Sep 2, 2010 7:41 PM PDT reply actions  

Extension can only be made before November 1st.

So a decision has to be made on basically the current information plus training camp and preseason.

You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.

by austinpwnz on Sep 2, 2010 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

viewed…

Buddy is a goooood dog!

by nascent on Sep 2, 2010 7:48 PM PDT reply actions  

ok lemmie try this again.

Offer him contracts until we get to one he’ll take. and be done with it.

The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!

by faith on Sep 2, 2010 8:08 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

Greg hasn't shown to have chronic injuries

so far, all of his injuries have been disconnected. It’s not like Greg keeps fracturing the same foot bone over again like certain centers like big Z, Yao and Bill Walton.

You can’t let Greg become a restricted free agent. Greg has not earned a max contract or anything near a max contract. But if he plays well this year (we hope), then it is almost inevitable that a team well under the cap would throw a ridiculous contract at him and dare Cho to match. If we gets injured again, then the injury-prone bust label will stick like glue and will probably not get much interest (which is the worst outcome we can imagine).

I assume that the gist of this post is to argue if Greg deserves a reasonable contract. I think so. Portland has invested too much in Greg to give up on him so soon. The worst outcome would be let Greg become a restricted free agent, match a large offer and have an average Greg on the books for far more than had he signed an extension. If he becomes the next Bill Russell, then it doesn’t matter how much we pay him – he’ll be a bargain.

by odenator69 on Sep 2, 2010 11:52 PM PDT reply actions  

They have been disconnected

but they have all been bone fractures. If he has another, I think you have to consider the possibility that he just has brittle bones.

by hercher on Sep 3, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not true

He had a small cartilage lesion that was microfractured in ’07. His last injury was a fracture.

by odenator69 on Sep 3, 2010 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have to say

I thought I was the only one who felt 3-4 years felt LONG. We, as Blazer fans, endured a lot. Here is what I envision: 20 years from now, that 3 years would seem short compared to the 7+ years of WCFs and Championships.
Anyways, being a huge Oden fan, I would sign that extension. But once again, it’s a risk.
So I’m still not familiar with all these contract things. ASSUMING Oden really loves Portland and is loyal to us, is it possible we let him become a restricted free agent, and just sign him an offer later? I mean, other teams could try to snag Oden, but they can’t as long as he doesn’t sign the contract, right?

by Hopman27 on Sep 3, 2010 12:21 AM PDT reply actions  

Greg's potential on the court outweighs his injury potential

You have to sign him to a multi year deal, injuries or not.

"Sasha? That's a sissy name." -Mike Rice

by koyote on Sep 3, 2010 9:56 AM PDT reply actions  

Blazers need to sign him to the maximum length, with about half of the max pay. He's only played

about a third of the time he’s been here. So half of a max contract is fair when you consider he’s been paid millions to rehab.

I think 40-50 million for 5 years is fair.

by BRoyInThe4th on Sep 4, 2010 3:11 AM PDT reply actions  

I say wait and see..

It’s a risk, but if I were Portland GM, there is no way I give Oden an extenstion until he has shown that he can stay on the court. I’d let it ride, knowing that Portland can match any offer. Now, if he comes back this year strong, and stays on the court..then maybe think about it before the season ends.

If they sign him to any sort of extension before he comes back from his latest injury, that’s throwing good money after bad…and exacerbating the mistake made when Portland drafted him in the first place. I like the kid, and feel bad for the rotten luck he’s had, but in retrospect drafting him over KD was a mistake. Anyone who says different is simply not reality based

by JediDad on Sep 4, 2010 8:33 PM PDT reply actions  

"In retrospect" being the operative term

We didn’t make the decision to draft GO over KD with the knowledge we have now. We drafted him with the knowledge that we had back then, not with the knowledge that we have now. At the time that we made the decision, we made the right choice, simple as that.

by thevupster777 on Sep 5, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agreed...

We can argue semantics forever. You can argue forever that it was the right choice at the time, and I can counter forever that it no longer matters because it turned out to be the wrong choice (also as simple as that.)

It’s the commenters who say “even now, I would take Oden of Durant” that are not reality based. Just like at the time, Bowie was a better choice for Portland than MJ. Portland had drafted a talented 2 guard named Clyde Drexler the year before. If only they could have won that coin flip with Houston. Can you imagine those late 80’s early 90’s teams with Hakeem at the 5, with Duck coming off the bench..good gravy!

What’s depressing is that Portland faced two of those decisions and in both cases history has shown that the team made the wrong choice. For that to happen to the same franchise twice is maddening…

by JediDad on Sep 5, 2010 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Still not going to agree with you... yet...

Would Durant / Roy / Aldridge / Miller / Camby be long enough, tough enough, and play tough enough D to win a title? No. Fakers and Heat would both beat that team.

Could Oden / Roy / Aldridge / Miller / Batum be long enough, tough enough, and play tough enough D to win a title? I think so.

Now, if Greg’s bones break in a pile of sawdust this year you may get me to agree..

by Visionary2 on Sep 6, 2010 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

I really hope you're right...and I'm wrong...

I would like nothing better than to be wrong about this, to see Oden come back strong and lead Portland to a championship or two.

All I’m saying is that if we could get in the DeLorean with Doc and Marty, as Blazer fans, I think we can all agree that we would go back to 1984 and say “draft MJ over Bowie.”

At this point, in Sept 2010, I would also say that if we went back to 2007, we would say “draft KD over Oden.” Yes, the book on both of their careers is not written yet, but so far, it appears as though Oden over KD was a mistake…and it is very similar to the mistake of 1984. Portland drafts talented, but ultimately fragile, big man, and the player taken immediately after that pick turns out to be a very special player.

Again, as a Blazer fan, I would LOVE to be proven dead wrong about this…

by JediDad on Sep 11, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’s the commenters who say "even now, I would take Oden of Durant" that are not reality based

What is not reality based is saying that Portland should have drafted Durant in 2007. In reality, they can’t go back and change their minds. Hypothetically, knowing what they do now, I think Paul Allen would have insisted that KP choose KD. But even billionaires can’t build a time machine and alter past history.

The book on Oden’s career hasn’t been written yet, and neither has Durant’s. We know from history that Jordan >>> Bowie, but Kevin is not Michael and Greg is not Sam. Sure, the parallels are eerie but we have no way of knowing that Durant will win 6 NBA titles and Portland will get bupkiss out of Oden. The opposite could even happen, it’s within the realm of possibility.

It’s OK to be disappointed with the 3-year outcome of the 2007 draft. (Heck, I still have regrets about the LaRue Martin and Moses Malone “wrong choices” that were made back in the ‘70s!) But we can’t expect Portland’s current front office to “learn” from the past mistake of 1984, there’s been too much water under the bridge, and no one has a crystal ball when it comes to the future health of their draft choices. What the Blazers are doing (and what Blazer fans should be doing) is to support Greg during his rehab, and not “get down” on Oden for circumstances that were beyond his control.

Fortunately, we haven’t seen Blazer fans react so negatively to Greg like they did to Walton, when Bill was constantly injured during his first 2 seasons. That’s progress, I guess. Even though the expectations for Portland fans were just as high (or higher) when Greg was drafted as they were with the big redhead, at least we’re a little more understanding when our star centers get hurt and can’t play for long stretches of seasons. I hope Greg has the opportunity to feel the joy and enthusiastic support of the fanbase as he leads Portland to a championship, so he can return to Rip City and still talk with fondness about all of the Blazermaniacs, like Bill did last fall

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Sep 6, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

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