Noah offered 5 year $60 million from Bulls
I am assuming he will "settle" somewhere around what Aldridge was offered...5 year $65 million.
Do you value Aldridge and Noah the same?
over 1 year ago
JasonT
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If noah averages 15/10/2 next season
then yeah it is about the same or better than aldridges 18/8/0.5 blocks
WITH ODEN ON OUR SIDE
What team the player is on impacts that stats.
For example, would Noah average 12 rebounds per game, playing alongside a healthy Oden and Camby? That is not to say Aldridge’s rebounding is on par with Noah, just that it would be difficult for many power forwards to average double digit rebounds on the Blazers.
I don’t think anyone could argue that Aldridge is a better interior defender than Noah. However, I would rather have Aldridge’s offense and his upside over Noah’s interior defense.
I think Noah's a bigger game-changer
Especially in the playoffs when games get a little tighter. He’s probably got more room for growth, too.
However, Aldridge plays a different role for our team than Noah does for Chicago, so comparing the two is kind of apples and oranges. As long as Oden is healthy, I’d rather have Aldridge.
They have far different values.
Noah is waaay more valuable. I think Aldridge is a nice player, but outside of Portland, I think most would agree that Noah brings a lot more to the table.
by stevecolterssocks on Sep 11, 2010 1:11 PM PDT reply actions
waaay more valuable?
explain please
kObe iS thE aNtiChRiSt
by Brendan Holladay on Sep 11, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Yea, he's just the flavor of the month right now
ESPN and company have incentives to hype up the Bulls, and to do so have to pitch Noah as an elite player (esp. this summer when they were trying to make all of the potential LBJ destinations sound exciting).
If you look at his advanced stats, he’s certainly a great rebounder, but as a total package, he seems to be similar to guys like Camby and Varajao. Certainly valuable, but not the cornerstone he’s being made out to be.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
Really?
Although I’ve probably only watched a total of 20-30 games of his, I don’t ever remember a team having to double him, leaving one of his teammates open and forcing rotations. Joakim’s range is about 5ft, outside of that, he’s got nuthin. Don’t get me wrong, I love his heart and passion, but to say that he brings a lot more to the table than LMA is just ridiculous. He’s the top rebounder on his team, that is HIS job. LMA rebounds a couple less, but scores more and opens the floor for his teammates to work.
Explained
by the fact that he is a fairly dominant defensive center, who is certainly not a liability on o. I can count players of that descripyion on one hand. LMA is a top 15 power forward, has a lovely j, but a good center is the rarest of commodities.
by stevecolterssocks on Sep 11, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Ya, well I'm pretty sure a corvette can out run a dodge pickup,
corner better and you can take the roof off. On the other hand, a pickup can 4wheel, tow and haul a lot better than the vette. We have GO, JP and MC to do what Noah does. We don’t need Aldridge to be Noah, we need Aldridge to be Aldridge. He played out of position most of last year due to injuries. Not his fault. He can, and I believe he will improve some aspects of his game. I’d really like to know who you think the 14 better PF’s in the league are, cause I can only think of seven or eight.
Noah is not a fairly dominant defensive center....
He doesn’t have the size to legit centers and isn’t quick enough to guard a lot of the face-up 4’s.c
His pnr defense is also not very good.
His O is actually the more undervalued aspect of his game and it still isn’t very good.
His post game is ok (nice left hand), he o boards, good finisher, and actually his a bit of dribble drive game. While not afraid to show off his funky J.
He just tends to play outside of himself at times, and his decision making issometime suspect.
LMA doesn't exactly command a double.
But when Roy is out, he’s our best option, so he gets doubled. Noah is more valuable because he plays defense and wreaks havoc on the boards. He scores less but contributes more to the game than Aldridge. I agree with stevesocks here.
"These are dreams that we have." --Rudolfo Fernandez
Sorry, but you haven't been watching.
We start EVERY game going to Aldridge. EVERY game. After the first 3 or 4 posessions, defenses ALWAYS start sending help, which in turn opens things up for other people. LMA shot .495 from the field last year, Noah .504 with NO RANGE whatsoever. LMA had 1393pt’s last yr. Noah had 687. LMA had 627 boards, Noah had 705. LMA went to the line 304 times @ .747% – Noah 219 @ .744 LMA had 160 assists and 67 steals and 48 blks. Noah had 132ast, 32stl and 100blks.
Your statement that Noah contributes more than LMA is FALSE!
by blazinagain on Sep 11, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
not saying noah is better then aldridge here...
but you also have to keep in mind, noah only played in 64 games, i think aldridge played in 79. just sayin…
OK, how about head to head?
Last year, Nov. 23rd. Aldridge 24pts, 13rebs, 3ast and 1 blk.
Noah 7pts, 8rebs, 4ast. and 1 blk
Feb. 26th Aldrdige 32pts. 7rebs 1stl
Noah 8pts. 11rebs. 4ast. 1stl.
I get that you guys are LMA haters, and that’s ok, just be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. And no, the grass isn’t always greener.
by blazinagain on Sep 11, 2010 11:41 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Of course, in the first matchup Noah was practically in tears because he was going against Greg, not LA
Put him in a the 4 spot next to Greg and the story completely changes, as he goes from undersized 5 to a more natural 4.
I will run naked through the streets if Oden wins the MVP this season...happily.
I remember that game.
Oden just plain ripped him to shreds, so we can probably look at the second game as a better example.
In Bayless I trust.
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Noah's shot leaves a lot to be desired at the 4
He’d be very similar to Anderson Varejao. I’d rather have LMA.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
I'd also rather have Varejao over Aldridge, actually.
Same reasons as above.
I will run naked through the streets if Oden wins the MVP this season...happily.
Who was the Bulls PF last year?
It sure as hell wasn’t Noah. Two games out of a season do not prove a statistical point to begin with, but if you are going to pull out head to head stats, make sure that the heads match.
by stevecolterssocks on Sep 13, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, for someone who speaks with such basketball authority
You shouldn’t have to ask who their pf was, but here’s a clue, his name is Taj Gibson, rookie, started 70 games. Also, if you care to look above at your first comment on this thread, YOU were the one comparing the two.
Hm..I see someone's sarcasm meter is broke.
I will run naked through the streets if Oden wins the MVP this season...happily.
Noah's ok but not nearly the smooth quality and cool play of LMA
Noah’s going to burn out because he’s totally manic on the court and Chicago uses him in that fashion. I’ll take LaMarcus’ scoring and shooting firepower nearly everyday over Noah’s crazy man act.
There are those out there that probably wish LMA were inspired by Noah's "crazy man act"
Myself included. I love LMA, but dude can look pretty lethargic out there sometimes. Spike the Gatorade with Red Bull?
Yes, but it's a long season
that kind of expenditure has to be focused.
Same.
I’ll take a rebounder and defender next to Greg to cover the weakside instead of an inefficient offensive player that takes touches away from more efficient players in Oden, Roy, and Batum.
I will run naked through the streets if Oden wins the MVP this season...happily.
I'd rather have a 4 that can pull his defender out of the paint so Oden and Roy have more room to work
To each their own though…
by RudiFTW on Sep 12, 2010 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah..but I'm sure our perimeter spacer doesn't have to be a PF.
A position traditionally known for defense and rebounding. Plus, an occasional pick and roll instead of pop would be nice as well.
I will run naked through the streets if Oden wins the MVP this season...happily.
I want perimeter spacers at every position besides Oden and Roy's
No argument on the roll instead of pop thing, that bugs me too.
inefficient?
are we callin Aldridge inefficient offensively now? SERIOUSLY?! he’s got a lot of faults but i wouldn’t call him inefficient on offense, defense yes, not on offense…
kObe iS thE aNtiChRiSt
by Brendan Holladay on Sep 12, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
somebody shared some shooting stats, earlier this year
LMA shoots 41-44% on his 16-22 foot jumpers
compared to Oden shooting in the high 50s and Batum shooting 40% on 3 pointers, that’s an inefficient result per possession. LMA also draws few FTs on his 15 attempts per game
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
depends on where he's shooting from
for a guy who was a main low post scorer for most of last year, shooting below 50% and only 4 FTs per game is not very efficient, by anyone’s measurement
Once Oden starts taking away some of LMA’s touches close to the basket, the Aldridge’s 2pt% should drop even further, if his career averages hold true
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I'm gonna say that would be a yes 10 times out of 10 too
It would be like having Varejao 2.0 next to Oden and while I’m not in favour of swappining Andy V for LA, Noah is more interesting proposition.
I think I’d do it.
| #11 | #7 | #9 | #15 | #52 |
Joakim Noah would be an interesting 4 next to Greg Oden, as well as something I'd likely ...
enjoy watching more than LaMarcus Aldridge on the frontline. It’s too bad that Noah doesn’t have a developed offensive game like Brook Lopez, but I’d still take him for his well-rounded defense.
I'll "settle" for Camby
Marcus provides the rebounding and shot blocking of Noah (without the youthful enthusiasm and over-aggressive mistakes) and the outside shot of LMA, to go along with his superior post-passing ability and low usage
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Sep 12, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I love the idea of a Camby-Oden pairing
I really would hope that we take advantage of it, except for the fact that LA and Greg need to play significant minutes together seeing as they are likely to be our starting frontcourt for the foreseeable future.
I’m definitely of the opinion that Camby is better than LA and would be the perfect 4 to put beside Greg, If only he wasn’t so damn old.
| #11 | #7 | #9 | #15 | #52 |
they are likely to be our starting frontcourt for the foreseeable future.
That’s the conventional thinking. But until the duo is tried and the results are seen, I don’t know that it’s a 100% certainty. On paper, the outside shooting of LMA should open up the court for Oden and Roy, but sometimes real life scenarios always don’t play out as they’re written up
It’s interesting to me that Bayno and LMA worked on improving his low post moves again this summer, almost as if they were anticipating the same kind of usage for LMA as he’s seen in the past 3 years. If Greg is healthy and returns to his dominant inside play, it’s almost a given that LMA will not have the same shot opportunities as when Greg was out of the lineup (unless Portland follows my advice and brings LMA off the bench as a 6th man)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Its just logical
We currently have LA and Oden, so it is more likely than not that they will be here for the next few years. LA will not be demoted, Oden is a star C when healthy so it makes sense they would start together.
Its pretty unlikely we trade either one of them IMO, even though flipping LA for an upgrade at 4 would be a good idea.
| #11 | #7 | #9 | #15 | #52 |
flipping LA for an upgrade at 4 would be a good idea.
Flipping him for an upgrade at PG would be a better idea, and then “replacing” him with a lower usage PF in the starting lineup (like Camby)
All of this hinges on Oden’s production, and how the two of them learn to play together. There should be no rush to judgment, either way
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
you put Noah in with Oden
and one is gonna suffer in the rebound department. i’m guessin Noah…
kObe iS thE aNtiChRiSt
by Brendan Holladay on Sep 12, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm guessing it would be whoever we are playing
Sure they probably wouldn’t pull down the 12-13 board they are both capable of, but I’d guess our opponents rebounding numbers would be horrific.
| #11 | #7 | #9 | #15 | #52 |
Probably...
But we’ll also be leading the league in rebounding and most likely, offensive efficiency…As more rebounds => more possesions and second chance points => higher offensive efficiency.
I will run naked through the streets if Oden wins the MVP this season...happily.
The joke is good
but as an evaluation of talent it’s just a different kind of player. Noah throws his body around a lot. Let’s see how far that gets him and his team. So far not farther than LMA and the Blazers.
because you know, pick any two players and their value is determined by how well their teams did
but as an argument of player quality that’s just a huge fallacy. You can have good players on bad teams. Come on.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
What could be more interesting
if they gave him that contract to get his salary up there for a possible trade for Melo.
that's what I was wondering
why extend Joe-Kim right now?
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
because they can only extend him through October.
So, it would make sense that they’re trying to work out an extension.
his salary this current year is set, the extension sets in 2011-12
kind of like Roy and LMA last year.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
I would not take Noah
because looking at his face makes me physically ill.
Frye-lock and I'm on top rock you like a cop
same here
Until he's not, Rudy's a Blazer.
by collectiveshane on Sep 11, 2010 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions
he is an ugly guy
but he’s not bad at all. I think I could get over his fugly face.
by hoodieNation on Sep 12, 2010 1:28 AM PDT up reply actions
Chicago might replace Utah as the league's uggliest team
Between Boozer and Noah it’s going to be hard for anyone else to compete.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
Aldridge > Noah
Until he's not, Rudy's a Blazer.
by collectiveshane on Sep 11, 2010 5:21 PM PDT reply actions
also
Lamarcus > Joakim
let’s not forget the plantar fasciitis that Noah probably isn’t done dealing with
by sammymohawk on Sep 12, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Just throwin' this out there
The national media is throwing around the suggestion of a swap of Noah for Carmelo freakin’ Anthony. Not saying he is of Anthony’s quality, but the suggestion is being treated seriously. An Aldridge for Anthony would be considered a punchline. A center is ALWAYS considered more valuable to a forward, even when the two are of equal quality. That is why we took Oden.
PS – The stats that have been tossed about during this debate are dubious to say the least. Defense cannot be quantified as well as offense, and the side by side comparison used by blazinagain (particularly the statistically insignificant comparison of Blazers versus Bulls stats) are completely off the mark. Watch a Bulls game.
by stevecolterssocks on Sep 13, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm no more confident in Noah guarding elite C's....
Than I am Aldridge guarding elite 4’s. I think that downgrades Noah’s value considerably.
Noah is the definition of a tweener on defense and is overrated there because of it.
I've always hated Noah
I’d probably like him if he was a Blazer or I’d hate him because it’s the cool thing to do.
#11
What if we traded Dre for him?
Won’t u be conflicted..
I will run naked through the streets if Oden wins the MVP this season...happily.
Nah
I think it’s good to have a guy on your team that everyone hates. Right now only me, Clippers, Cleavland, and Denver fans hate Dre. We need a Noah or Hansbrough just to piss off fans and other players.
#11
Noah
it depends on what you need, aldridge gives you much better scoring, but overall there’s not a lot of players like noah out there. compared to the recent contract extensions for noah and rajon rondo we over paid for aldridge. but hopefully this contract means we can pay greg slightly less than what noah got
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