Greg Oden: 11th best center for 2010-2011
KD says #11, also includes this defense for Greg ahead of Yao:
"So, I'd like to rank Oden higher. I really would. And while some might want to see him paired with Yao Ming around the same spot, it needs to be shouted that Greg Oden is not Yao Ming. He hasn't had the same repeated injuries in the same spot. He's injury-prone, yes, but only in the most literal sense of the phrase. If Oden stays healthy and can limit his fouls? He's top five. Maybe top three."
over 1 year ago
joelor
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Re-reading this now
I actually disagree with this ranking. Is KD ranking him based on injuries or in spite of them? I feel like the author is inherently contradicting himself.
I really believe that, if Greg were to spend the season literally injury-free, he would ABSOLUTELY be a top 3 center. Fouls are going to be an issue, but not a significant one by the time we get 25 games in.
I did like the not-so-subtle dig at Bynum cheap-shotting Oden though.
I
Fouls ARE going to be a significant issue
Especially if Nate sticks to his “two fouls and you are sitting for the first half” rule of thumb.
"Listening to the media only increases your odds of failing at whatever you are doing" - Mark Cuban
I'm not sure that they will.
No more than they are for any other heavily-used center.
I imagine the coaching staff won’t want him on the floor for more than 32ish minutes a night anyway. With his slighter frame and additional experience, I think he will average fewer than 5 fouls/30 mins.
I
i think he's saying that oden's injuries aren't similar to yao ming's injuries
oden’s injuries are not repeated injuries int he same spot..thus why he should not be ranked as low as yao in this ranking. but the injuries are still a concern nonetheless, and thus why he’s not ranked higher
Jeff Pendergraph:
FGM - 3
FGA - 111
Min - 30
Reb - 10
by Tofu Anonymous on Aug 27, 2010 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions
He makes a good point about how different/unrelated Greg's injuries are
this is unlike most the centers that had their career ruined by injuries (Yao, Walton, Bowie, Ilgaukas, etc)
Get well Greg! Rip City is still behind you!
#11 is being generous to Oden.
Oden has only played in 1/3 of the possible games in his career. If he is healthy for a full season, no doubt he would rank higher, but until then he is off my list. Greg still has a lot of to prove.
Marc Gasol is ranked a little low and Horford, Noah and Nene are little high. And where is Camby on that list? I’d take him over Nene. Camby was a beast at the end of the season with the Blazers.
You are being extremely ungenerous, IMO.
until then he is off my list.
Your fan loyalty to a player who has been very unlucky is less than impressive. Seven footers who post a PER of 23, don’t grow on trees. In fact, there have only been nine in the past forty years. All nine went on to be All-Stars and six are in the HOF.
by upper left corner on Aug 27, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Just trying to keep it real
If you are talking about talent and ability, then he is near the top. But what good is all that talent and ability if he is not on the court? Make no mistake, I would be ecstatic if Greg ends up as a top 3 center by the end of the season. But so much is dependent on his health. Based on the going rate he is averaging 27-28 games a season. If the average plays out again this season, then I cannot rank him as 11th. Greg still has much to prove in the area of health…until he shows he can stay healthy for a majority of the season, he is extremely difficult to rank.
Is "writing him off" the same as "keeping it real"?
I don’t think so. Just from a statistical probability standpoint, writing off Oden based on the past three seasons doesn’t seem reasonable:
1) None of his injuries have been connected;
2) None of his injuries involved damage to ligaments or tendons;
3) None of his injuries involved a chronic condition;
4) None of his injuries is expected to significantly impede his performance going forward;
-Is it possible that there is some underlying issue in terms of nutrition or skeletal alignment or some such that makes him more susceptible to injury? Yes.
-Given his history does it make sense to assume that he may be somewhat more likely to sustain additional injuries than the average NBA center? Probably.
-We know that Rich Cho is a data guy who has studied injury history extensively. Does it make sense to assume that they are taking every preventative precaution in terms of nutrition, physical therapy, and training methods? Absolutely.
Given all this, it seems to me that “keeping it real” means maintaining cautious optimism. There is no reason to believe that Oden’s career is over. There is no reason to assume that he will be constantly injured. There is no reason to believe that the past dictates the future. Because there is reason to believe that Oden may by more susceptible to injury, it makes sense not to count on having him for 82 games. It makes sense to have quality back-ups and additional depth at the center position.
To me, this was the logic for resigning Camby and the reason to hang on to Pryz for the time being. It is not reason to assume that Oden will be hurt going forward.
by upper left corner on Aug 28, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Camby at 15 is good
Oden at 11 is ok He is definitely better than that. The future is not set.
Oden's most recent injury
was not "A fractured left patella tendon, hurt as he landed awkwardly after contesting a shot against Houston. " It was a fractured patella BONE, hurt as he JUMPED into the air to try and contest a shot against Houston.
It's hard to rank Oden
If he has no injuries he could be contending for best in the league. If he doesn’t play any games he’s useless. Ranking him just comes down to trying to predict how likely injuries will be.
Disclaimer: everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazersedge.
Yeah,
but I don’t understand why Big-Z is in every picture.
It’s hilarious.
If what I just commented turns out to be wrong, please delete from all memory.
He's been doing it for every position.
Ty Lawson for point guards, OJ Mayo for 2 guards, lebron for SFs, and Troy Murphy at PF.
"Ain't nothin' in this world for free."
Is there a secret meaning?
Is that his fantasy team or something?
Disclaimer: everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazersedge.
nah..some pictures don't follow the trend also
OJ mayo one was just hilarious bceause it was OJ mayo guarding OJ Mayo
Jeff Pendergraph:
FGM - 3
FGA - 111
Min - 30
Reb - 10
by Tofu Anonymous on Aug 27, 2010 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I loved the Troy Murphy pictures.
Some of his facial expressions were hilarious.
by simoninaustralia on Aug 28, 2010 6:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Andrew Bynum at 5?
"We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude. We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors. You have our gratitude." - Rich Cho
by Sexual Tyrannosaurus on Aug 27, 2010 1:35 PM PDT reply actions
sounds about right. There just aren't that many really good centers right now.
Bynum also gets that boost after everyone saw this year just how important he is to the Lakers. They really struggle on the boards when he is not in the line-up.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Aug 27, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Doesn't sound right at all
this guy hasn’t had one healthy season and is constantly battling a knee injury
and L*kers played better with Odom at PF and Pau Center
"We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude. We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors. You have our gratitude." - Rich Cho
by Sexual Tyrannosaurus on Aug 27, 2010 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions
and yet he has two championships.
And no, I don’t think the Lakers would have won either one without Bynum.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Aug 27, 2010 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions
You're right.
It doesn’t sound right. I don’t watch Bynum game for game, but he really doesn’t seem that impressive to me. Sure, he might be more polished on the O than Oden, but if you erase the injuries, anyone would take Oden any day because of his power, D, and his beastly instinct.
Interesting to note how many of the guys in the top 12 have serious injury histories
Bogut (#2), Bynum (#5), Kaman (#6), Nene (#8), Jefferson (#10), Oden (#11), and Yao (#12) all have a history of serious injuries. And Noah (#7) and Gasol (#9) both missed double-digit games last season (nearly 20 in Noah’s case). Only Howard, Lopez, and Horford have remained consistently healthy.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
Bogut doesn't have a serious injury history
Sprained foot caused him to miss 10 or so games his sophomore year, then the freak accident at the end of last year.
I
2005-11-24 Bucks Andrew Bogut surgery on broken nose
2006-10-09 Bucks Andrew Bogut sprained lower left leg (out 6-8 weeks)
2007-03-21 Bucks Andrew Bogut sprained left foot (out for season)
2007-03-21 Bucks Andrew Bogut sprained left foot (DNP)
2008-11-25 Bucks Andrew Bogut bone bruise in left knee (out 7-10 days)
2009-01-15 Bucks Andrew Bogut back spasms (DTD)
2009-11-19 Bucks Andrew Bogut strained ligament in left calf (DTD)
2010-04-03 Bucks Andrew Bogut dislocated right elbow, sprained wrist, broken right hand (out indefinitely)
2010-04-05 Bucks Andrew Bogut surgery to repair broken right hand
"Listening to the media only increases your odds of failing at whatever you are doing" - Mark Cuban
by Norsktroll on Aug 27, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
hey, factanista,
it only matters that it never feels like he’s injured.
by damonrayhymer on Aug 27, 2010 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions
he averages about 65 games a season for the last 5 seasons
So, you know, bad, but not career-altering or threatening.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
True, but he's rather the norm than the healthy exception
E.g. Okafor gets a rep for being injury prone because his sophomore season was toast, but he’s played 3 seasons with 80+ games the last 3 years.
"Listening to the media only increases your odds of failing at whatever you are doing" - Mark Cuban
2005-11-24 Bucks Andrew Bogut surgery on broken nose
- Not related to any “serious injury history.”
2006-10-09 Bucks Andrew Bogut sprained lower left leg (out 6-8 weeks)
- Definitely significant.
2007-03-21 Bucks Andrew Bogut sprained left foot (out for season)
2007-03-21 Bucks Andrew Bogut sprained left foot (DNP)
-These are the same (and the season was 10 more games)
2008-11-25 Bucks Andrew Bogut bone bruise in left knee (out 7-10 days)
2009-01-15 Bucks Andrew Bogut back spasms (DTD)
-Missed significant time this season.
2009-11-19 Bucks Andrew Bogut strained ligament in left calf (DTD)
2010-04-03 Bucks Andrew Bogut dislocated right elbow, sprained wrist, broken right hand (out indefinitely)
2010-04-05 Bucks Andrew Bogut surgery to repair broken right hand
- This is the freak accident that happened at the end of last season, certainly not related to any “serious injury history.”
Nice job trying to list them so that it looks much worse than it is.
I
Big tree fall hard.
Humans weren’t meant to be that freakishly big.
"Ain't nothin' in this world for free."
yeah but those guys are exceptions thats why they play in the NBA
their bodies are athletic even while being that size. Usually people 7 feet will start developing back problems and stuff but a lot of “NBA athletes” play around age 35 productively.
look at Big Z. he easily looks like he could had needed around 5 back surgeires till date but is pretty athletic for his size, age and body type
WITH ODEN ON OUR SIDE
It's wierd
how there’s no one as good as Hakeem. or Patrick Ewing even, except maybe Howard, and he has no moves.
This is clearly not a golden age for centers.
by damonrayhymer on Aug 27, 2010 4:22 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Just wait until Oden has a few solid seasons under his belt.
I see no reason why he couldn’t run into the next Hakeem or Ewing if everything goes right…
It’s just unlikely.
Not that unlikely he could carve a place in NBA history, more than Ewing,
Hakeem was special and an unrealistic, and unnecessary, goal.
People’s views are tainted by the injuries.
With a few solid seasons under his belt you will see if he can make that next step to consistently dominant. If he’s on the floor he will usually have an impact; the impact will be at both ends, and it will be significant at both ends. This year, after working out the inevitable kinks, timing and getting in game shape, he’ll be in the top 4.
People will get all hot and bothered about him getting winded, a few dropped passes and a couple of missed hooks at the “start” [recovering from injury, missing training camp, coming back late into the season, may all push his truly full game shape back until after the All-Star game, so don’t panic – he should be rusty]. Nate just needs to let him play, fouls or not.
In the long term he’ll need to develop new parts to his game to make that big step to elite center, since rebounding, blocking shots and dunks is not an issue even now, even for the harshest critics. He shows a few hints of ‘free throw line and in’ jumper – that single added dimension could be devastating to defenses and further improve his P & R options – I think his free throw percentage make this a probable add, rather than a distraction.. His passing game already seems to have a solid basis too and that’s almost always a “next step” for big men who draw doubles. How much more would he need to be better than, well, everybody on that list?
Comes down to Fouls and Injuries. He can control fouls.
Injuries? If that’s all that is between my player and a HOF career, and there are NO lingering medical deficiencies, I’m gonna be happy to have they guy and liking the percentages of success.
Can he get to Hakeem, Wilt and Russell? Hard to bet on Anyone getting to that level. Ewing and other HOF centers (but not the 3 Greatest Eva’)? Very doable.
In this ‘weak-center’ era, even more likely.
The doubters will run and hide or claim innocence.
by Sashland on Aug 27, 2010 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well said.
The doubters will run and hide or claim innocence.
That’s how I feel about Oden. The “Oden Haters” population will just suddenly decrease once he starts to dominate.
The think I thought surprising
and nobody’s mentioned it so far (cue 100 references to a fanshot that I missed)…
is that Przybilla wasn’t anywhere in the top 3031.
When he wasn’t in 31-12, I was a bit surprised that he apparently made the top 11; now that he’s not there, either, I’m WAY surprised.
Apparently KD thinks that Prz is done; based on pre-injury production last season there’s no way he’s not a top 30 center in the league. Given that KD does downgrade players due to injury (Yao and Oden for two examples), his exclusion of VG seems to indicate taht Dwyer thinks Prz won’t play effectively this season, if at all.
Si equum mortuum flagellēs, non celerium currat.
You could email Dwyer, maybe he forgot about the Vanilla Gorilla
Offensively he’s efficient but not much of a threat, but defensively he’s very solid and could easily replace some guys on that list with this combination.
"Listening to the media only increases your odds of failing at whatever you are doing" - Mark Cuban
I was thinking that too
Oh well, Przy will show him too.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
You could rank Oden anywhere from 3-20 and make a pretty legitmate argument.
Its all about how you weigh injuries/ability to stay on the floor.
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