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John Hollinger's Computer Wants To Make Out With Greg Oden

Sure it might be a slow week but I've found some excitement: it looks like we'll have a nice little battle between John Hollinger and Kevin Pelton to see whose computer will project Greg Oden to more ridiculous heights this season. We'll get to that in a minute.  

First, here's the concept. Scratch that.  Actually I'm not sure what the concept ESPN's Chris Broussard is working with here, other than it's a list, the word "buzz" is involved and the Blazers place 7th out of the 30 NBA teams. Utah, Dallas, Denver, Phoenix and San Antonio trail the Blazers so this feels like a good thing.  Broussard writes...

The more things change: Besides their draft picks, headlined by promising forward Luke Babbitt, the Blazers haven't done a ton this offseason. They added 2-guard Wesley Matthews, who made a name for himself with his surprising rookie play last season in Utah, and they're likely to lose Rudy Fernandez, the athletic wing who's demanding a trade or a return to Europe (anything but another year in Portland!). Those additions/subtractions mean little and won't move the Blazers' needle up or down much. But there's another addition coming in the form of 7-footer Greg Oden. After missing all but 21 games last season with yet another major injury, Oden is expected to be healthy for the start of this campaign. If he can play a whole 82 games -- and play them well -- the Blazers could be the best of the rest (besides the Lakers) in the West. Oh, and there's been a shake-up in the front office, with Rich Cho leaving Oklahoma City to replace Kevin Pritchard as GM. Cho hired the capable Bill Branch (formerly of OKC) and Steve Rosenberry (formerly of Atlanta) as his assistant GMs.

The more they stay the same: Head coach Nate McMillan is one of the best in the league. He and veteran point guard Andre Miller clashed early last season before eventually making peace. Despite that well-publicized beef and all the injuries, the Blazers still won 50 games. With McMillan and Miller on the same page, the Blazers, if healthy, will be dangerous.

Buried beneath that are the following per-40 minute statistical projections for the Blazers starters courtesy of John Hollinger. 

Hollingerstats_medium

I've been doing my best to bottle up Kevin Pelton's early SCHOENE projections for the Blazers so as not to give away the end of his book, but this is putting me right at the bursting point.  Privately, KP2 has been feeling pretty confident that no one would out-hype him when it comes to the Blazers and Oden.  Now we know where the bar is set.

All that's left now is for Oden to get back on the court.

-- Ben Golliver | benjamin.golliver@gmail.com | Twitter

PS I bet you chuckled when you saw that even the computers are resigned to an eternal 18 and 8 from LaMarcus Aldridge.

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Wow! Superstar!

How many blocks does Hollinger’s obviously accurate computer predict for Oden?

In KP I trusted!

by LaoTzu on Aug 26, 2010 11:33 AM PDT reply actions  

Who cares if LMA stays at 18,

if our starters are at a 94 pt avg. per game! I like that projection.

Somebody step up! - Mike Rice

by We-B-Dunkin on Aug 26, 2010 11:35 AM PDT reply actions  

Right on

But why stop there when we can play them a full 48 mins! LOL

http://twitter.com/pdxmenonsports

by Derek @Portland Men on Sports on Aug 26, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

even the computers are resigned to an eternal 18 and 8 from LaMarcus Aldridge.

LMA’s going to have to do that with fewer than 15 shots per game, if Greg remains healthy

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 26, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

If he averages 18 and 8 this year I’ll be pleased. What is the problem with 18 and 8?

GOP in HD

by 22baylor on Aug 26, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nothing.

As long as Greg stays healthy and averages 18 and 13.

I will run naked through the streets if Oden wins the MVP this season...happily.

by xedubx on Aug 26, 2010 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

it's the usage

to keep receiving 15 shots per game, LMA is going to necessarily take touches away from Oden and Batum, if the three players are in the lineup at the same time (starters)

If LMA’s shots are in high percentage areas then that’s no problem. If they are 16-22 foot jumpers that he shoots at 40-44%, then that’s not as efficient as the offense could be

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 26, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

LMA's percentage most certainly will improve

Teams will not be able to double him actively or shade him passively on D. That would leave a hungry and aggressive Oden to chew them up!

by Odenrising on Aug 26, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

only if LMA can make the entry pass

that makes the defense pay for this strategy

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 26, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or via offensive rebounds

"I have contract with Portland.... I have contract with Portland... I have contract with Portland." - Rudy Fernandez

by Kroes32 on Aug 26, 2010 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

well yeah

but Andre Miller can “feed” Oden by bricking 20 footers just as easily as LMA

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 26, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

I know this is an unpopular thought

but why doesn’t lamarcus shoot the corner 3? we know he can shoot a high percentage from out there, its pretty much the same distance from the basket as many of his 2 pointers (which he hits at a nice clip)

by moflow on Aug 26, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

he's taken a few

but that’s the wing man’s job in Portland’s offense

now, if LMA were to play a few minutes per half at the 3 (so Camby can play the 4 and Joel can play the 5) then he may have some opportunities to do a Portland

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 26, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

If anything, LMA would need to learn to shoot the three ball from up top.

That reminds me of Vladimir Radmanovic, who did that a fair amount in Seattle.

I, however, don’t wish to go that route, for to become a legitimate championship contender this team should move LMA for a power-oriented 4 who’ll also play active defense.

Oh, and lastly, LMA is not an efficient mid-range shooter. For some reason, though, people buy into that fallacy. On jump shots from 16 to 23 feet away from the basket — of which LMA attempted an average of 5.2 per game this past season (i.e., 34.67% of his overall field-goal attempts) — he shoots a substandard 41%.

by AK1984 on Aug 26, 2010 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

He's only an efficient mid-range shooter for a power forward.

Also, I’m curious. Which

power-oriented 4 who’ll also play active defense

would you suggest?

I realize you’re focusing more on the concept of championship basketball here, but given your repeated invocation of ‘stylistic fit’ re: Bayless, what do you think of the apparently sound stylistic fit of LMA and Oden, particularly on offense?

You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.

by austinpwnz on Aug 26, 2010 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Regarding fit, I feel Marcus Camby is better than LMA at pairing with Greg Oden ...

due to his skills on weakside help defense and at high-low passing. Camby’s older, though, so he’s not a long-term solution, which sucks. Across the NBA, some of the best fits are guys who’ll never play here — such as Lamar Odom — while my goal of getting a power-oriented 4 (e.g., Anderson Varejao) has way more to do with getting a low-usage, defensive-minded guy rather than a sound offensive fit with Oden.

by AK1984 on Aug 27, 2010 12:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Sooo..

19 and 13 over 40 minutes projects to 14 and 10 in 30 minutes.

I’ll take it.

I

by joelor on Aug 26, 2010 11:39 AM PDT reply actions  

more realistic

GOP in HD

by 22baylor on Aug 26, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is there a computer projection

to predict how many fouls Oden will get per 40 minutes?

:-(

by Corvallis, OR on Aug 26, 2010 11:42 AM PDT reply actions  

No but...

…this human’s projection is 9.

http://twitter.com/pdxmenonsports

by Derek @Portland Men on Sports on Aug 26, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

I asked Kevin Pelton on Twitter

He said “Fun with SCHOENE projections: DeMarcus Cousins will average 5.7 fouls a game next season!”

I asked him what about Oden?

He said: “Oden’s at a relatively paltry 3.8 per game in fewer minutes.”

by mas1983 on Aug 26, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would buy the 3.8

GO showed some improvement in the foul area last year. No reason to think it won’t improve with everything else.

by Odenrising on Aug 26, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I always felt that

part of Oden’s foul problem was that the refs weren’t used to him. He’s so big and strong, incidental contact can look more ferocious than with some other guys. I seem to recall seeing some calls against Shaq his first season that were pretty questionable. Of course, Oden hasn’t broken any stanchions or backboards.

by hercher on Aug 26, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

When GO was playing well last season, the only way teams could cope was to flop

Eventually, the refs will catch onto that.

I was born in '52, and I believe in #52. Hang in there, GO.
You too, Przy: everyone knows you're the heart & soul of the Blazers.

by hurryup09 on Aug 26, 2010 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

they stripped the ball a lot

Greg’s got to keep it up high when he gathers himself to power it in

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 26, 2010 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Luke Babbit is promising?

When did that happen?

Geriatric Dunk Squad!
1/4/10 - Juwan Howard dunks on Chris Kaman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTkOqDgLb6s
3/7/10 - Andre Miller Tomahawk jams on the Denver Nuggets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-JVgm7F1QA
4/12/10 - Marcus Camby drops 30 and 13 on OKC to cement 50 wins. http://www.nba.com/blazers/media/camby_chant_041310.mp3

by Eat Politicians on Aug 26, 2010 11:47 AM PDT reply actions  

I'm honestly thinking that it will happen on another team.

I agree, he does seem to have a high BBIQ, but he seems to lack confidence, and in general I haven’t seen good things come from players who have confidence issues who are coached by Nate. (See example 1: Martell)

by gtbassett on Aug 26, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Babbitt will be fine

He got off to a slow start in Vegas, but he looked good in the last couple of games. I actually think that among the 3 rookies, he is the most likely to make a significant contribution. Basically, he is a shooter and we need shooting so I expect him to get more opportunity.

by upper left corner on Aug 26, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Babbitt could end up being the MAIN backup forward on this team

In one to two years he could be backing up Aldridge and Batum.

by Odenrising on Aug 26, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

weight training required

I still prefer Dante as the stretch 4, he has a motor and rebounding skills

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 26, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not to mention some defense

That was one of the knocks on him even in college.

by hercher on Aug 26, 2010 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

yes, but

Babbit was the Reno offense, he couldn’t afford to foul out

he’s a project who could be stuck into a game as a sniper, that’s the most I’m expecting out of Luke this year

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 26, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

so far

I don’t think the book’s been written on DC yet

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 26, 2010 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sure, if our team's defense depended entirely on 20 mpg from the backup forward spot.

I’m sure you know you’re exaggerating, but honestly I think our team’s success or failure on defense has a lot more to do with the coaching. We have a pretty good stable of individual defenders in Camby, Oden, Przy, Batum and Matthews, but a good team defense is like the tide: it raises all boats (to use a mangled nautical metaphor).

Now questioning whether Nate Mac can do that is extremely valid.

You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.

by austinpwnz on Aug 26, 2010 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can't think of any other Blazer who had a subpar Summer league...

and then went on to make fans very happy with his play.

Now Babbitt didn’t stink it up, but he was rather streaky on the bad shooting side of streaks.

by NWfan on Aug 26, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Aldridge and Batum

 looked pretty blah in summer league, then played pretty well right out of the gate as pros. There are also a bunch of guys who tore it up in summer league and did little in the big show. It seems to me like summer league is not a very good indicator, although I’d agree Babbitt didn’t look that good.

by sanjait on Aug 26, 2010 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

the opposite is true of SL

Bayless tore up summer league and then had a blah regular season. So did Qyntel Woods, and how did that turn out? I think training camp performance is way more important than SL.

by billyrybates on Aug 26, 2010 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Batum plays well in structure

summer league is glorified pickup ball

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 26, 2010 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

exactly

It favors perimeter guys who can create their own shots, handle the ball a lot, do well on the break, etc.

You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.

by austinpwnz on Aug 26, 2010 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

He is promising on the offensive side of the ball.

My hope is that he becomes at least passable on D. If so, he’ll be a useful player for us in years to come unless he pulls a Spaniard.

I will run naked through the streets if Oden wins the MVP this season...happily.

by xedubx on Aug 26, 2010 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

calm down... it's NOT a hype, it's pretty much Oden's last year stats extrapolated to 40 mintues!

Oden’s 2009-2010 stats:
23.9 min – 11.1 ppg – 8.5 rpg – 0.9 apg

extrapolated to 40 min:
40 min – 18.6 ppg – 14.2 rpg – 1.5 apg

Hollinger’s projection:
40 min – 18.6 ppg – 13 rpg – 1.5 apg

man… if only a “projection system” can be so easy lol

by iverigma2 on Aug 26, 2010 11:55 AM PDT reply actions  

Adding in blocks

2.3 per 23.9 minutes => 3.8 per 40 minutes

Still on the Rex bandwagon.

by dan_the_man on Aug 26, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Or 14, 10 and 3 blocks in 30 minutes

A more realistic per game possibility, as suggested above.

by Charon on Aug 26, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was thinking the same thing

Hollinger actually undersells his rebounding. Lawl.

You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.

by austinpwnz on Aug 26, 2010 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Batum’s 2009-2010 per40:
16.3 ppg – 6.1 rpg – 1.9 apg

Hollinger’s projection:
17.6 ppg – 5.9 rpg – 2.1 apg

I’d hope Batum will show more improvement than Hollinger predicts.

by iverigma2 on Aug 26, 2010 11:58 AM PDT reply actions  

Mins

I hope he averages more than 24.8 mins a game this year.

http://twitter.com/pdxmenonsports

by Derek @Portland Men on Sports on Aug 26, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

this^

if he’s healthy he should be on the floor 32-25 mpg

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 26, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

*35

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 26, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

On a per minute basis, it's hard to see Batum getting enough touches to see much improvement.

Especially considering he’ll be the 4th or 5th option (behind Roy, Aldridge, Dre, and sometimes Oden, depending on the situation).

"Ain't nothin' in this world for free."

by Arby on Aug 26, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

we started to see that late, last season

but he’s the 5th option in the starting lineup, assuming Greg is back at full strength. Miller is still going to score when he has a mismatch on penetration and post ups.

This is why I’m advocating a 6th man candidate to be removed from the starting lineup and be given touches when most of the starters are not in the game.

Start Camby, bring LMA in off the bench like L*A does with Odom or the Spurs do with Ginobli

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 26, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

But Lamarcus only scores in the beginning of the 1st and 3rd quarters

I don’t think I’ve ever seen LMA score at the end of a quarter. He should start.

by The J-Bus on Aug 26, 2010 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure that the old "let's get LMA going early" strategy should continue

especially not at Oden’s expense

why not “let’s bring LMA in the game a little bit later and then get him off” after Oden has picked up a foul or two?

Two many chiefs in the starting lineup, not enough indians

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 26, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

if he hits the 3 at 41 % like last year, and plays 35 minutes a game then he should get his 17

that’d be sweet. I like Batum and Matthews locking people up on the perimeter and Oden/Camby stuffing everything in the paint. Hollinger’s computer is all about offense, but I think the Blazers will win their championship with tough D.

by billyrybates on Aug 26, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

Would like to see him bump up his steal totals

Had .9 per 36 to go with 3.3 fouls, according to Basketball Reference. He’s got solid backup; how about 1.8 and 4.5 per 40?

by Charon on Aug 26, 2010 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Note the balanced scoring.

All five starters projected to score above 15 per game. This is the possibility I have been trying to call attention to all summer.

Think about what this means: teams are going to have a very hard time doubling any of the Blazers. You double Roy, and somebody else is going to make you pay. You double LMA, and somebody else is going to make you pay. You double Oden, and somebody else will make you pay.

This is the potential solution to the offensive problem the Blazers have increasingly faced since the 2009 playoffs. Houston showed that you could aggressively double Roy and Aldridge and the Blazers couldn’t respond. The arrival of Miller and the emergence of Batum and Oden should change that.

The thing I worry about is spacing. I hope the team has enough three point shooters to keep teams from packing the middle. Too bad a certain Spaniard has his head where the sun don’t shine. We need Batum, Mathews, Bayless, and Babbitt to hit some threes.

by upper left corner on Aug 26, 2010 12:08 PM PDT reply actions   2 recs

it would be nice if we could somehow "comfort" Rudy

now, I know some want to “let him rot”, but that is not really the smart move.
He needs a hug from somewhere on the team – it’s worth a shot.
If he could be useful, let him know it.

"You be realistic," Oden said. "I’m going to stay happy. All right?"

by Berkeley on Aug 26, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd love that too

I was really high on Rudy, and was giving him some slack for coming back from injury, but when he plays like he did and then throws a fit, somethings got to give. Maybe someone should show him some game film. That should do it. Ya, that’s you Rudy, Disappearing when needed.

by blazinagain on Aug 26, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rudy has probably gotten hugs from his teammates and moral support. The guy is a whiner.

Do you like working with whiners? I don’t. I’d prefer it if they leave if they aren’t happy.

by Natsthecat on Aug 26, 2010 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

rec

for threes

GOP in HD

by 22baylor on Aug 26, 2010 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm more worried about the fact that LA couldn't find an open man to save his life than spacing.

As his response to aggressive double team tend to be dribble away from it rather than staying tall and finding cutters/spot-up shooters. He needs to learn from Greg in this area.

Roy is not a bad shooter from out there and we also have Nic. Aldridge could potentially shoot the baseline 3’s even though it doesn’t seem like he worked on that this summer. I think the bench guys will also step up, or in Bayless’ case, stop putting his big toe on the 3 point line.

I will run naked through the streets if Oden wins the MVP this season...happily.

by xedubx on Aug 26, 2010 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

LMA ranked 12th in 2009/10 in assists per game among PF's

with 2.1 a game. The best PF was Josh Smith at 4.2, followed by Diaw at 4.0. A small handful of PF’s average over 3 APG.

The point is that criticizing LMA for being unable to find “…an open man to save his life..” is actually a misplaced criticism relative to his peers.

More to the point is that very rarely do you see a shot taken off the pass from the doubled post – that simply is not how the Blazer offense is ran.

Most to the point is that low assist totals from bigs is a system flaw rather than a player flaw (more so with LMA than Oden or Camby). With Oden and Camby – their job is not to shoot the mid range jumper after setting a pick. Not so for LMA. So you will see high post passing from Oden and Camby by design, whereas LMA won’t receive the ball unless he is supposed to be shooting.

All that said – he still racks up 2 apg – which ain’t bad. However, I do recall one game where Oden/LMA passing out of the high post decimated a good team. Gonna have to do some research to find that…

Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

by blacknoiseNW on Aug 26, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree that LMA doesn't always have someone to pass to

when he’s double-teamed. However, much of his difficulty, at least in the Phoenix series, came from holding the ball too long. It seemed like he waited for the double team to actually get to him before deciding what he wanted to do, instead of just waiting for the opponent to commit to the double team.

That is something that a Tim Duncan is a master at: teams rotate to double on him, and he waits for them to commit to that, but makes his move — be it a pass, shot, or drive to the basket — when the guy coming to double is caught in no man’s land between Duncan and his original man.

Now, having a center who is a legitimate offensive threat will help that a lot.

by hercher on Aug 26, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

We need Batum, Mathews, Bayless, and Babbitt to hit some threes.

add Roy and probably Cunningham to that list

3pt% = Batum 40, Matthews 37, Bayless 37 (after the break last spring). Rudy and Marty aren’t going to be missed that much from downtown, they weren’t stroking it well last spring anyway

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 26, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

What??? Only ~2 assists/game for Nic???

As the point forward of the future, I’d see him managing BRoy kinds of numbers.

#52

by CatMan2 on Aug 26, 2010 12:25 PM PDT reply actions  

so far

the book isn’t finished on Frenchy, either

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 26, 2010 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I do disagree here, however. While shooting range can be developed for someone like Dante ...

Cunningham — even though lack of having any semblance of a three-point shot doesn’t lead to a positive outlook — this is a different situation. Nicolas Batum’s platry AST% his first two seasons — and, more importantly, the history of guys rarely improving much as passers upon entering the NBA — indicates to me that thinking he’ll become a point forward is a pie in the sky pipe dream.

by AK1984 on Aug 27, 2010 1:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

While I'm not entirely invested in the concept

I think Batum can develop a well-rounded Pippinish (Pippinic? Pippiniform?) game, including dishing some dimes. I think he is a smart guy, with good court awareness, and basically knows what to do with the basketball. Problem so far is they don’t let him handle it enough for him to be the playmaker. I believe he could do it though.

#52

by CatMan2 on Aug 27, 2010 2:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

I figure Nicolas Batum could improve some as a distributor in the right offense -- such ...

as Trevor Ariza did last season with the Houston Rockets, for his AST% did skyrocket above his career average due in part to Rick Adelman’s hybrid Princeton/flex offense — thus, you’re partially correct about how Nate McMillan is somewhat holding him back at handling the rock and passing it.

Yet, even though Batum could almost surely be used effectively on a team with more motion and sharing of the basketball, I can’t see him being an actual point forward who initiaties and runs an offense. Batum may eventually be a fine facilitator, sure — such as Tayshaun Prince, who’d fit really well with the Utah Jazz (e.g., Prince packaged with salary filler in Chris Wilcox and DaJuan Summers for Andrei Kirilenko) — but not now or ever will he be Scottie Pippen.

by AK1984 on Aug 27, 2010 4:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

I can’t see him being an actual point forward who initiaties and runs an offense. Batum may eventually be a fine facilitator,

First of all, he’s 22 so I don’t think anyone can or should make a definitive statements (positively, or otherwise) of what Batum is or will become

Portland doesn’t need him to be a point forward, for the foreseeable future. They do need him to make plays from the 3 position, and not just spot up and shoot. We started to see some of that last year. He has court vision, he will swing the ball and make the extra pass. He can take his man off the dribble and pull up for an on-balance jumper.

The next stage is for Nic to post up smaller players and be a scoring threat. Then to learn how to pass out of that scenario if the opponent send help. Prnce is the prototype here, and these skills can be developed this year and next

Rather than compare Batu to an all-century superstar let’s take a look back at his head coach’s NBA career. Nate was a 6’6 swingman who made entry passes to talented teammates up in Seattle and racked up assist numbers that put him in the ballpark of an average NBA PG. (He also had the athleticism and BBIQ to defend quick PGs, as Bernie pointed out last month.)

I wouldn’t call Nate a PG, though. He was a swingman who initiated the Sonic’s offense until Payton was drafted. Can Batum become “another McMillian”? If that’s what Portland wants him to be, I think he has the latent ability. But we’ll never know if they don’t ask him to do it and help him develop that skillset. There’s no doubt that Nic already shoots it better than his head coach ever did, so that may dictate that his career path will vector into a different direction, as he gains confidence and if the team needs more offense from him, in the future

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 27, 2010 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

No, just no. Nate McMillan was a pure point guard frmo 1986-1987 'til 1989-1990.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzdB28XgM-s

As a rookie and second-year player, McMillan posted a 35.5% and a 35.9% AST%; on the other hand, Nicolas Batum has had a 7.8% and a 8.0% AST% to start his career.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=mcmilna01&y1=1988&p2=batumni01&y2=2010

A young McMillan and a young Batum were wholly different players stylistically, pure and simple. It’s not even close, either.

by AK1984 on Aug 27, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Cunningham — even though lack of having any semblance of a three-point shot

Just because you haven’t seen it in a televised game doesn’t mean it’s not there, or never will be

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 27, 2010 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

I envision Dante Cunningham panning out a lot like Brandon Bass, who's similar to him ...

statistically and couldn’t see any time for the Orlando Magic last season — which was unlike his time in Dallas — ‘cause of an inability to stretch the floor. I don’t think Travis Outlaw is a fair comparison here, either, for the age difference between him and Cunningham entering the NBA was three-and-half years. Oh, and for Cunningham, I’d say his best-case scenario is Udonis Haslem or post-microfracture Antonio McDyess, who are each a 4/5 instead of a 4/3 — with the latter being what some folks want out of Cunningham, even though he hasn’t played a lick of 3 during his college or pro career — while similar guys from his rookie class include J.J. Hickson and Taj Gibson.

by AK1984 on Aug 27, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t think Travis Outlaw is a fair comparison here, either, for the age difference between him and Cunningham entering the NBA was three-and-half years.

but Trout didn’t feature the corner 3 either until he was in the league for 3 years

Cunningham has better range than Bass did while in Dallas, it shouldn’t be that hard for him to stretch it out. One of these days we might see a video

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 27, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

From 16 to 23 feet away from the basket, Brandon Bass shot 53% in 2007-2008 ...

and 46% in 2008-2009 for the Dallas Mavericks — which made up roughly 30% of his overall field-goal attempts — which is on part with Dante Cunningham’s 48% FG% on those shots (i.e., 59% of his overall field-goal attempts) as a rookie last season.

Brandon Bass: http://tinyurl.com/29fkxdr
Dante Cunningham: http://tinyurl.com/26bzrrr

However, Bass’ percentages did drop somewhat from mid-range last season with Orlando. That’s more on him being an ill-suited fit with that system — which is why I never understood the signing in the first place — but the point remains that Bass has equal range on his shot compared to Cunningham.

by AK1984 on Aug 27, 2010 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

range, not percentage

When I remember Bass as a Mav, he was receiving pick and pop passes from Barrea and knocking down 12-15 footers. Most of the shots that I’ve seen from Dante are from 15 feet and further out

Bass may have shot a few 20 footers, but I suspect his effective range is closer to 15 feet. Cunningham is already closer to a stretch-4 than BB
and I suspect the gap is widening

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 30, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not sure why this is surprising?

Last season, Greg had 18.6 and 14 per 40, if I did my math right, right?

by howlingfantods on Aug 26, 2010 12:29 PM PDT reply actions  

so their projections are saying that

Miller, Roy, and LMA will score less, but Batum and Oden will play more and as a result, score more…I can live with that.

If you look at these 5 players p/40 stats from last year, they show the decreases for Miller, Roy, and LMA.

by usmcr3049 on Aug 26, 2010 12:45 PM PDT reply actions  

there's going to have to be some "buy in" required

better defense that leads to more transition opportunities should help

but the days of “I’m option #1 and he’s option #2” need to be over. It should be all for one and one for all, let’s work together to get the best shot opportunity on each possession.

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 26, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Which provides context for the anti-Nate sentiment

Predictable and simplistic offense:

1) Set a pick for Roy – defender goes under pick Roy shoots. Defender goes over pick, Roy drives and dishes if doubled or goes all the way to the rim if defense does not rotate. Direction Roy passes (pop/corner 3/post cut) depends on where the help defense comes from.

Rinse and repeat.

2) LMA takes the ball on the isolation post (much too far from the basket, typically). LMA drives middle for a hook or passes back out if doubled. Often waits for the double as if part of the game plan. If played one on one by someone that gives him a little space, shoots the fadeway.

3) Miller isolates on a smaller guard, posts or drives.

In favor of Portland – everyone knows its coming – but all of these options can be hard to stop depending on how hot the go-to scorers are. In favor of the defense – execution is brutally slow – with a lot of waiting for reads rather than executing early in the shot clock and taking what the defense gives.

It’s bread and butter offense that works if the players individually are excellent shooters and can take advantage of poor defensive matchups or lapses in defensive rotations.

At its worst, however, the defense is let off the hook by slow execution when the ball handler spends WAY too much time reading the defense. This is where I begin to lay the blame on the coaching staff. Far too often I see players waiting for the scouting report to materialize in front of them – over thinking their options and responsibilities. Fact is, these basketball plays require court awareness and focus – but decision-making should be reflex rather than calculated.

We haven’t seen enough development to date in the primary execution of the offense. Other than Roy or Miller, the execution is too methodical and with Roy lacks a primary component of the screen/pick offensive dynamic – the big man roll. I point the finger at McMillan for this hole in the offense.

However, I’m hopeful that another year of international exposure will help Nate incorporate off-the-ball player movement into the offensive repertoire. I actually don’t think it will take that much to make it happen. Other than that – it would be really nice to see Oden/LMA/Camby working the high post rather than the isolation post. Hate the isolation post – HATE it.

Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

by blacknoiseNW on Aug 26, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions   2 recs

Very good analysis.

The key point you make is that the execution is slow. Recall the end of the 08-09 season, when the Blazers got hot by thinking “first seven or last seven.” I thought that was some of Nate’s best coaching, because he got his players looking for a quick strike, then pulling it out if it wasn’t there.

by hercher on Aug 26, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

the execution is too methodical and with Roy lacks a primary component of the screen/pick offensive dynamic – the big man roll. I point the finger at McMillan for this hole in the offense

LMA doesn’t set a hard PnR screen, Roy doesn’t run his man into the screener—HATE it.

That’s on the players, because the coaches sure haven’t told them to do it “that way”

The hard screens went away when Joel got hurt. The hard cuts that are required to make the offense effective are a split responsibility—the coaches must continue to demand them and the players must hold each other accountable until these fundamentals become routine

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 26, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's also on the coaches -- primarily Nate McMillan -- for it was also a problem in Seattle.

McMillan has never been able to coach guys up apropos of play a pro-style pick-and-roll game, which is one of a few reasons regarding why he has no business being a NBA head coach.

by AK1984 on Aug 26, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'm hoping that the acquisition of Matthews

is a signal that players are going to be able to play off of each other. During last season the give and go between LMA and Batum was exciting and it was there virtually all game every game.

by 7677maniac on Aug 26, 2010 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wow....

That’s 96 points, 36 rebounds and 18 assists from your starting 5 per 40 minutes. I think I could live with that.

Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.

by jenstcy on Aug 26, 2010 12:53 PM PDT reply actions  

It looks like there's another name to add to the Pelton/Hollinger group of Oden Lovers...

Kelly Dwyer.

Over at Ball Don’t Lie he hasn’t mentioned Oden yet in his list of 30 best centers. So far he’s listed 30-11.

Przybilla’s hasn’t been pegged yet, either. Camby came in at 15.

Wherever you may be; good night, eeeeeeverybody!

by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Aug 26, 2010 1:30 PM PDT reply actions  

Well, he mostly played C for us,

but mostly played PF for the Clips, but then mostly played C for the Nuggets and Knicks. He’s been a C for most of his career even though honestly I think he’s more of a natural PF.

I think Kelly’s been doing his ranking by projecting what position the player will be playing the upcoming year.

by howlingfantods on Aug 26, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think Kelly’s been doing his ranking by projecting what position the player will be playing the upcoming year.

Then he must not be expecting Greg and Joel to stay healthy. Out of sight, out of mind

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 26, 2010 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

he is

Marcus only played the 5 last spring because Juwan Howard was the alternative

Camby plays goalie on defense so it’s assumed he’s a center. But on offense his game is high post—more 4 than 5. (Similar to Brad Miller, Okur, etc)

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Aug 26, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Unlike Marcus Camby, Brad Miller and Mehmet Okur can both stretch the floor. As a high-post ...

face-up scorer from mid-range with good high-low passing abilities, I’d say Camby is a lot like Kevin Garnett in that regard. Well, a very, very poor man’s Garnett.

by AK1984 on Aug 27, 2010 1:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

The idea of a prime, healthy Garnett

With a healthy Greg Oden just blew my mind.

That would just be poetry in motion…teams would be left in shreds.

| #11 | #7 | #9 | #15 | #52 |

by MadBlaze on Aug 27, 2010 6:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it is simply baffling

that people could think a 31 year old guy coming off one of the most serious possible knee injuries could crack a top ten list as a backup to another top 10 guy. It’s pretty clear that the list will include Oden, Bynum, Howard, Nene, Bogut, Splitter (since he already mentioned him in the Duncan PF entry), Noah, Horford, Gasol (Marc), and Kaman. I could see Bargs slipping in, depending on how much he wants to value scoring vs.defense, but there really is no way Przy even deserves to sniff that list this year given his situation.

#52

by Royster on Aug 26, 2010 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bargs was 18th

Al Jefferson is also wasn’t in the PF rankings so must be top 10 here. I think there is a chance Oden missed out, if only because Dwyer stated this was about what he thought the player would produce in the upcoming season. If he thinks Oden will be hurt then why rank him highly?

Most likely Oden get in somewhere in the 10-7 range and someone like Horford or Jefferson, as 4/5’s, have been forgotten.

| #11 | #7 | #9 | #15 | #52 |

by MadBlaze on Aug 27, 2010 6:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

these national reviews mean so very little

They are simply out of touch , especially for western small market teams. Although Hollinger uses statistical analysis, this plays only a small part in the association of how good a team is or will be. Intangibles are enormous and cannot be overlooked or taken lightly. Nate has the respect of his peers and most media, but does that make him a great coach?—not hardly. Lets just say he is not a bad coach and was probably a good choice at the time, for this team. Time and good common basketball sense will give us the answer to how good he is or whether or not he can mold a team into a contender from scratch.
   This team has proven nothing beyond rising from rock bottom to respectable. Getting to the next level will require more scrutiny and facing up to harder decisions, if necessary. Once you accept contentment, you take a step backwards in your progress. Even championship teams that repeat always take each season with the idea of improving their team, analyzing their weaknesses and then deciding on what needs to be done.
  just saying; before we get hopeful,or we speculate on what we will be on paper, we need to understand that getting to championship levels are extremely difficult and very few teams reach this plateau. If you take the notion that the coach is very good or we have the players to be great, them you are cheating yourselves out of reality. Hype does not win you playoff games. It’s all about hard work, good sound fundamentals, team chemistry, determination, offensive and defensive balance and on down the list . Once you have the necessary “heartbeat” stuff, the good fortune (or luck) comes into play.
   Sorry, but I have never been too fond of predictions. They simply do not hold up unless they have already proven themselves. It’s a media and fan thing that gives rise to conversation and, of course, speculation.

It's all about defense......

by 67 on Aug 27, 2010 10:36 AM PDT reply actions  

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