The Blazersedge Scrubdown Begins
by Dave on Aug 1, 2010 11:00 PM PDT
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PrintThis week I am taking my first real blog-vacation since I started this gig. Never fear! Ben will still be here updating you on any news. We might have a guest post or two. But to keep you entertained on the main page (in addition to the always-entertaining sidebar) we're going to hold an exercise which puts us deeply in the debt of Seth from PostingandToasting, as he thought of it first.
This post is the beginning of the official Blazersedge Scrubdown. When we talk about Blazers history we usually mention icons with retired numbers who played in our favorite eras. What about the rest of the guys? Who is the most notable Blazer outside of Drexler, Porter, Walton, Lucas, Sabonis, Vandeweghe, Paxson and company? Despite the clever "scrubdown" name I didn't pick true scrubs for the brackets. I'm not confident we're ready to debate the merits of Joe Wolf versus Alaa Abdelnaby. Rather these are Blazers whose names you will (or at least should) recognize who were never long-term starters and probably had zero or one fantastic years for the team.
In each post two Blazers of yore will go head-to-head. In the comment section (no polls, as they can be spammed) you vote for your favorite of the two. You can use any criteria you wish: stats, contributions, personality, your fond memories, who you'd like to have now, even just that you like one guy's name better than the other! It's meant to be an interesting exercise without being overly serious, you know? The only rule is that you should give the most weight to the Portland portion of these players' careers rather than what they did before or after. If you do have memories or solid reasons for favoring one guy over the other, please share them in the body of your comment. Be sure and place your actual vote in the subject line. We'll narrow down 24 players over the next few weeks until we hit the Final Three, one of which will be the official winner.
Enjoy the memories and the discussion!
Today's contest pits Antonio Daniels versus Caldwell Jones. Who is your vote to advance?
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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The complete lack of context wins my vote. Caldwell Jones not only has an awesome internet photo associated with his name, but sounds like a Dave Chappelle character. Point: Caldwell Jones.
Totally. Caldwell Jones get my vote as well.
Also just for tenure in Rip City. He played here 4 seasons where as Daniels only played in one.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Aug 2, 2010 7:29 AM PDT up reply actions
That's one fat tat!
Caldwell would make an excellent cat name… you could shorten it to C.J.
"The great charm of cats is their rampant egotism, their devil-may-care attitude toward responsibility, their disinclination to earn an honest dollar." - Robertson Davies
by bow4meow on Aug 2, 2010 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Caldwell Jones
He had a longer career, played longer in Portland and started a bunch of games in the PDX as well.
Caldwell Jones
He was a blazer when I was a kid. I have good memories of those teams.
Antonio Daniels was a Blazer during the dark years when I didn’t follow the Blazers (or basketball) much.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
Caldwell Jones
He was awesome. He played point center for the Sixers back in the day but in Portland I think he was 107 years old but could still rock the rim, hit a smooth jumper, and block some shots. He and Lucas (in his second stint with the Blazers) came off the bench to provide some veteran wisdom for Duck and Bowie. I have no issues with Antonio Daniels but I don’t think he even played a full year in Portland before moving on.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
Caldwell Jones
+ nickname, ‘POPS’
+ always take a big over a small (eg Taj Gibson… hint hint wink wink)
+ played the latter part of his 30’s with Portland, and averaged 4 ppg, 5 rpg and a block
in 20 mpg. pretty solid
Antonio Daniels
- 1 year in PDX. meh
wanderlust
I gotta have my Pops!
+1 for Caldwell. The Juwan Howard of his day. Okay, not really. But maybe just in an “old man river” sense….
And what’s this? Not ready?
I, for one, am ready to debate the merits of Joe Wolf vs. Alaa Abdelnaby. Bring on the scrubdown!
Who’s with me?
Nobody? I’ll just be over here eating this hot dog, then.
I dunno, Elgin … Abdelnaby was a pretty great scrub!
I mean, never mind the Duke pedigree and that he was stuck behind a greater team than Joe was. The guy has three ’A’s" in his first name! He’d make a pretty tempting vote.
I could have gone for that SN, except that “HowlinAlaaAbelnaby” didn’t have quite the same ring to it.
But I mean … it’s hard to top Joe Wolf. He fits all the great scrub categories: he’s basically a big stiff (check), a memorable name (check), and the crowd howls when he enters a game (check). So basically, yes. Up with Joe.
by HowlinJoeWolf on Aug 2, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't remember Caldwell Jones
But I remember this Antonio Daniels monster dunk! Top this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxH1IgsA8Os
"Talk's cheap, we all know that. It's like I've always said - 'don't tell me about the labor pains, just show me the baby."
-Buddy Nix
That IS a pretty sweet. dunk
facebook.com/year5000
by Y5k on Aug 2, 2010 3:50 AM PDT up reply actions
I've seen that dunk several times and it never gets old.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Aug 2, 2010 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I really like AD
and because I have no great recollection of caldwell jones, I’ll take Daniels; a nice defender in his day.
Antonio Daniels
Have you heard his voice? The fact that he hasn’t gone voluntarily mute yet indicates his inner strength and self-confidence.
#27
"We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude. We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors. You have our gratitude." - Rich Cho
by Sexual Tyrannosaurus on Aug 1, 2010 11:56 PM PDT reply actions
Exactly...
Have to go with Caldwell Jones based on his uniform number. Not too many 27s in the NBA.
I was born on June 27th.
Caldwell Jones, no contest!
Everyone else covered the reasons I considered, so I’ll just leave a vote.
I loved Antonio Daniels
He just made Damon look all the more pathetic as a player.
My vote: AD!
Mortimer
#52
It also helps
That I don’t remember/know Caldwell Jones, aside from the name.
“Caldwell” is a pretty sweet name, for what it’s worth.
M—
#52
caldwell passes the two last names test
which of course means he is an amazing person
by HD on Aug 2, 2010 12:42 AM PDT up reply actions
this post will self-delete in 3...2...1..................
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Aug 2, 2010 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Caldwell
as the sentimental choice
Law of Logical Argument
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
smh
"We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude. We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors. You have our gratitude." - Rich Cho
by Sexual Tyrannosaurus on Aug 2, 2010 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Hmm....
I don’t know much about these guys.
Can we summarize them somehow and then I can vote off of that.
Someone must have a deep knowledge of them here.
In Bayless I trust.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
How dare you link the name of Alaa with the word "scrub?"
How dare you, sir?
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
by OhOhOden on Aug 2, 2010 1:16 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Antonio!
No idea who Caldwell is.
Porter, Drexler, Kersey, Williams, Duckworth. The greatest starting 5 ever.
Antonio
Only because I dont know the other guy so I will vote how most f"ans" vote for the all star game… Hey I know that guy.
ALLLL Rudy Then!!!!!
sad...and true
can’t wait to see Iverson, McGrady, and Carter as starting all stars for 10-11 (rolling my eyes)
the all-star game ...
also known as: the nba popularity in a big market contest! lol
thanks so much for your concern, but i do not require your validation in order to feel free to sbmit my comment.
I was gonna vote for him
Remember that deep 3 against Detroit in the finals at the end of regulation. Too bad it didn’t count
Caldwell Jones
I remember him, but much like others I don’t remember to many specifics about him. Besides Antonio Daniels was to conceited.
hg
Dave, be sure to blog every day about what you're doing on your vacation. Tweets are ok, too!
(I attached this to Tom’s comment because I believe Dave reads ALL of Tom’s work here on BE.)
#52
Kiki Vandeweigh, with a name like that, not so much a scrub
"It's not whether you win or lose, it's whether you win."
Oh, I guess he wasn't a scrub, my bad.
"It's not whether you win or lose, it's whether you win."
Geez
A real toughie to kick it off, Dave. Got to go with Pops though, dude was a playah. He even gave Bill a bit of trouble in 1977.
by doomsdaymachine on Aug 2, 2010 6:11 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Caldwell Jones FTW
A great defender who guarded any front line position. A good rebounder. Absolutely no offensive game, but hey. – Elgin
GOP in HD
Caldwell Jones
The Forrest Gump of the NBA in the 70’s and 80’s.
"Parting ways is not the end of the world. Ultimately, it may not be a bad thing at all, but right now I know the emotions are pretty raw. But it doesn't serve anyone to bash the Trail Blazers or Paul. It is after all a business of tough decisions. So, for the sake of the players, coaches and everyone who believes in Trail Blazers basketball, let's turn the page, move on and keep our eye on the prize." -KP
by The Cactus Leaguer on Aug 2, 2010 6:41 AM PDT reply actions
Morgan Freeman, errrr, Caldwell Jones
By the time he was on the Blazers it was toward the end of his career. If I remember right he gave us back minutes at the four and five behind Steve Johnson and Big Duck.
"He's not your Vydas or my Vydas, he's Arvydas."
History: How they became Blazers and more
Caldwell Jones: He was a second round pick in 1973 by the 76ers. But then first played in the ABA where he was a third round pick. Those were the days. He once got traded for Larry Miller. No, not our current President, though that would have instantly won my vote.
1985-10-01 Blazers signed veteran free agent Caldwell Jones (from Bulls).
1985-10-09 Bulls agreed not to exercise their right of first refusal on free agent Caldwell Jones. Blazers trade a 1987 second round pick (#40-Winston Garland) to the Bulls as compensation. Yup, that was possible, unlike in the current Collective Bargaining Agreement. Call it a slightly sweetened toxic offer ;-)
After 4 years as a Blazer, he went to the Spurs and retired there.
In 2001 he became an assistant coach for the Blazers
Antonio Daniels: 1997 first round pick by the Vancouver Grizzlies (#4)
Acquired on 2002-08-02 together with Charles (Cornelius) Smith and Amal McCaskill for Steve Kerr, Erick Barkley and a 2003 second round pick (#58-Andreas Glyniadakis) in a trade with the Spurs. Considering that Kerr went on to win a 2003 title for them while Daniels won a title in 1999 with them and the other two players were inconsequential, I guess we lost that trade. In July 2003, the Sonics signed Daniels to a 3-year $9M contract in free agency (last year player option, which he declined to go to the Wizards).
So from a historical perspective, I think Caldwell Jones has the longer and cooler one, and was much more associated with the Blazers than Daniels. Caldwell Jones wins.
by Norsktroll on Aug 2, 2010 7:16 AM PDT reply actions 4 recs
Leave it to Norsk
worth a rec tho
If Luke Babbitt and Jerryd Bayless played a game of table tennis I'm not sure who would win but the ping pong ball would lose no matter what. - Ben 7/16/2010
Caldwell Jones
A consummate pro, unlike players during the Era of Voldemort, aka, The Dark Times.
by Original Blazer Fan on Aug 2, 2010 7:26 AM PDT reply actions
Caldwell Jones
For all of the above reasons, plus I don’t really remember Daniels cuz that’s when I wasn’t paying much attention.
Antonio Daniels
"I have contract with Portland.... I have contract with Portland... I have contract with Portland." - Rudy Fernandez
Caldwell Jones
Caldwell was a consummate pro. Intelligent player and quiet leader. Not over-powering by any means, but played smart, team ball. Never sought the spotlight. Did what needed to be done to win. Smoooooooth…. yea that’s right, smoooth.
Nothing wrong with Antonio’s time with the team. Very good athlete and I remember him being a strong point defender. More a victim of circumstances being around when he was, no fault of his own. Not a surprise he played a role on that Championship Spurs team.
Head to head, this is a no-brainer. Caldwell Jones in yo face.
"The great charm of cats is their rampant egotism, their devil-may-care attitude toward responsibility, their disinclination to earn an honest dollar." - Robertson Davies
Caldwell Jones
statistically speaking, he averaged more points, minutes, rebounds and started roughly half of the games he played for the blazers.
thanks so much for your concern, but i do not require your validation in order to feel free to sbmit my comment.
nope
that was not part of my criteria. i don’t think they even used +/- when Jones played.
thanks so much for your concern, but i do not require your validation in order to feel free to sbmit my comment.
Oh snap!
Did you at least divide their stats by 60 so it was per minute? Per minute stats are super important.
60?
it’s my understanding that there are 48 minutes in a game.
thanks so much for your concern, but i do not require your validation in order to feel free to sbmit my comment.
no
my information is related to basketball. you do understand that the ‘per’ stat is devided by the minutes of a game rather than the minutes in an hour, right?
thanks so much for your concern, but i do not require your validation in order to feel free to sbmit my comment.
really?
they actually had match way back then?!
thanks so much for your concern, but i do not require your validation in order to feel free to sbmit my comment.
oops
math*
thanks so much for your concern, but i do not require your validation in order to feel free to sbmit my comment.
jeez
don’t start that crap. i respect fact, not blind conjecture or speculation. to be honest, the length of this conversation is way out of proportion to my interest in it.
thanks so much for your concern, but i do not require your validation in order to feel free to sbmit my comment.
People are very prickly today
prickly pears the whole lot of us
"We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude. We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors. You have our gratitude." - Rich Cho
by Sexual Tyrannosaurus on Aug 2, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Tom is pulling your leg
trying to get under your skin. I think it worked…
If Luke Babbitt and Jerryd Bayless played a game of table tennis I'm not sure who would win but the ping pong ball would lose no matter what. - Ben 7/16/2010
Antonio Daniels
sounds like Jones was the better Blazer, but Antonio Daniels played C3P0 in six feature films.
Wow, while reading that I just spit my coffee all over my monitor laughing so hard, simply awesome.
"I figured we ought to hang around for a while and see if we can give 'em all a nice big shitburger to eat!" -Manager Lou Brown -Major League
Sorry, Daniels WAS a scrub
I remember one game we were blowing out the Clippers, and Daniels was put in for garbage minutes. As time was winding down, Daniels was the only Blazer who had not scored in the game yet.
My friends and I (who had sneaked down to the good seats) started yelling for the Blazers to “pass it to Antonio!”
Antonio heard this, frowned, and shook his head while trying to wave us off. He was obviously embarrassed that his career was at the point where kids were trying to help him get pity points.
The inbound to McGinnis, drives, stops, pumps, shoots, short, no good...AND THE GAME IS OVER! ~ Bill Schonely
by SandbergOnSports on Aug 2, 2010 9:06 AM PDT reply actions
CJ
Interrogation Cop: What are you saying?
Fenster: I said he'll flip you.
Interrogation Cop: He'll what?
Fenster: Flip you. Flip ya for real.
by Cyclops@Centercourt on Aug 2, 2010 9:17 AM PDT reply actions
Caldwell the Crypt Keeper
I remember going to a game back in the 80’s and when it was time for Pops to come in they would open up the coffin, conveniently stored at the end of the bench and the top of Memorial Coliseum would open and the skies would darken. With thunder crashing and a bolt of lightning….Caldwell would be brought back to life for those ever important …last 2 minutes of a blowout game.. I jest, Pops really solidified our bench for like 180 years and we got A.D. too late to really help. I go with Pops just because he always looked like he just smelt something really bad and I always got a kick out of it.
"I figured we ought to hang around for a while and see if we can give 'em all a nice big shitburger to eat!" -Manager Lou Brown -Major League
Caldwell Jones
And it isn’t even close. That guy was scary looking enough to be memorable, and that’s enough to get my vote
CJ
cause he was awesome. i remember as a kid saying we should keep him around to teach our young bigs a thing or two. i am not sure if that worked.
"I told somebody to stop crying," Pendergraph said after the game. "Actually, I told them all to stop crying."
Caldwell Jones
I might be too young to actually remember him, but I do remember Daniels being a complete scrub.
Also, a prediction
Final three:
Mark Bryant
Chris Dudley
Danny Young
what about ...
last year’s tri-met driver of the year and former blazer, Shaler Halimon?
thanks so much for your concern, but i do not require your validation in order to feel free to sbmit my comment.
Caldwell Jones
I’ve got fond memories of that squad. CJ wasn’t one of my favorites, but you’ve got to respect his contribution.
Caldwell Jones
Played a few more years for the blazers than Daniels, started quite a bit in those years alongside Drexler et al. And, FTW, Jones was on the Sixers when we beat them in the finals. So, bonus points for sort of being a part of Portland’s championship.
Caldwell
because he had 3 brothers who also played in the NBA.
Brothers FTW!
"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green
Important vacation-related news for Dave
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/02/nyregion/02burnout.html
Taking a Break From the Lord’s Work
The findings have surfaced with ominous regularity over the last few years, and with little notice: Members of the clergy now suffer from obesity, hypertension and depression at rates higher than most Americans. In the last decade, their use of antidepressants has risen, while their life expectancy has fallen. Many would change jobs if they could.
. . . a growing number of health care experts and religious leaders have settled on one simple remedy that has long been a touchy subject with many clerics: taking more time off.
Caldwell Jones: 8.4 career Blazer winshares; .066 winshares/48 minutes; best Blazer PER season- 9.7
Antonio Daniels: 2.3 Blazer winshares; .128 winshares/48 minutes; 13.3 PER in only season as a Blazer
So, based on this, Antonio Daniels played better than the past-his-prime Blazer version of Caldwell Jones . However, since this is the “scrubdown,” I vote for Caldwell Jones to advance.
QED. Period. End of Story. Debate over.
Calwell Jones
Daniels only played one year.
The vs. or comparison matchups
have to be more evenly matched. AD is not even in the same league as CJ. Maybe give this forum a little “twist”. Like, who would win a in boxing match in their prime, Mo Lucas or Kermit Washington? I would have paid to see that!
Caldwell Jones
A force in the paint, he was. Some monster blocks. Can we get him to come out of retirement now?
Pop Jones
Matty Walker: You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man. - Body Heat (1981)
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Aug 2, 2010 4:31 PM PDT reply actions
Caldwell Jones
It took him 1227 games to score 10,000 points. Stats like this are a sure sign of yeoman like work. Pops moves on!
Caldwell Jones
Good defensive Player. Named after something that sounds like ancient cookware. How can you go wrong?
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
Daniels
I’ve always liked him, before he played for the Blazers and after and was disapointed to see him go…
Caldwell Jones
DOn’t remember him he was before my time by a year or two. and Lost interest in the team when Daniels was here
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
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