Pg comparison between the suns and blazers...
Whats the problem
Andre Miller and Jerryd Bayless combined numbers against Phoenix. Dre’s numbers are listed first then Bayless and then followed with a combined average between our 2 PG’s.
FG% - 40.5/43.0 = 41.75
3PT% - 42.9/40.0 = 41.45
FT% - 77.5/79.0 = 78.3
RBS – 3.2/2.7 = 3.0
AST – 6.0/3.8 = 4.9
TO – 3.2/1.3 = 2.3
STL – 1.2/0.3 = 0.8
PPG – 15.7/13.5 = 14.6
Steve Nash and Goran Dragic combined numbers. Pattern follows above setup.
FG% - 43.6/36.2 = 39.9
3PT% - 47.0/47.0 = 47.0
FT% - 86.5/80.0 = 83.3
RBS – 2.2/1.2 = 1.7
AST – 9.8/2.0 = 5.9
TO – 4.3/1.5 = 2.9
STL – 0.2/0.0 = 0.1
PPG – 15.0/6.8 = 10.9
I just don't think that an upgrade is needed in the PG position at this point. The games were not lost at the point. They were lost by and for the whole of the team. Really, we lost the series due to Brandon Roy not being able to play to his ability.
If the Blazers fail to produce in the next few years, I will have to be thinking then that it was the management and organization that let the championships be won in another arena.
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I would like to develop a good replacement for Miller. Hopefully Jarryd continues to improve like he did last season… and the fact that he has shown up in both playoff series bodes well. Andre continues to be an iron man, but it’s risky to bank on his long term viability.
That said, I’m far more concerned with Rudy or whoever subs for Roy (we need someone who can play limited minutes and also competently be a starter for maybe 10 to 20 games per season). Last season we were asking for bangers at the 4, now we have three good options in Jeff, Dante and Camby — not in that order of course. This year hopefully NB and LB show chemistry at the 3. Obviously the overriding question is will Greg play a whole season. I’m betting yes, and that should get us past the first round.
by jiminut on Jul 7, 2010 1:31 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
the game was hugely dependent on PG play
phoenix was able to adjust to andre after the first game. we were never able to take them out of their offensive rhythm.
"There was a time when this blog was for intelligent BASKETBALL fans. It has unfortunately become O-Live 2…" ~Ilikeemall
"Did they really expect me to bow down to Jesus?!?" ~Sophia
"At first glance, I saw a fairly unremarkable penis." ~Sophia on Greg Oden
they were able adjust by putting grant hill on miller and we couldnt make them pay for it.
A healthy Roy would have been fine, but we need our wings to be more aggressive. And Batum really needs that post play he’s working on.
Portland could coast along with their superior talent and stay right with us. Now that Portland woke up, the hammer cometh down.
Bayless > Daffy Duck after 3 cans of rockstar
by Batumshakalaka on Jul 7, 2010 3:01 AM PDT up reply actions
I thought we played pretty decent defense given the terrible matchup problems the Nash-Stoudemire pick and roll caused us. However, for significant stretches of each game we lost they simply demolished us on the offensive glass, which kept us from making runs even when we were digging in and they were making shots.
for significant stretches of each game we lost they simply demolished us on the offensive glass
This^
What used to be a strength for Portland (rebounding) became a weakness without Oden/Przy and a healthy Camby (ankle) With these 3 big men healthy, the Blazers will crush opponents on the glass, and this is a traditional component to post season success
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
they shot at pretty high percentages
for much of the series.
"There was a time when this blog was for intelligent BASKETBALL fans. It has unfortunately become O-Live 2…" ~Ilikeemall
"Did they really expect me to bow down to Jesus?!?" ~Sophia
"At first glance, I saw a fairly unremarkable penis." ~Sophia on Greg Oden
by Philthyanimal on Jul 8, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
R.E.C
woot put that in your pipe and smoke it!!
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!
Andre Miller or Mike Miller?
You might want to recheck your numbers. Dre shot 20% from the arc this season instead of 42.9% Also, you are incorporating statistical bias into your averages when you simply combine two player averages when they both significantly different minutes (30min vs 17min).
He's just talking about the Phoenix series averages, not their season averages.
"Nicolas! You're the strongest boy in the world!"
it still doesn't quite work
averaging per36 numbers would work though.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
Yes, the "Kenny Vance/Dwight Jaynes P.O.V." makes me crazy.
Perceptions of Bayless are central to most observers opinions of the “need” for a PG upgrade. If you are optimistic that Bayless has a good chance to develop into a starting PG who fits well next to Roy, then it doesn’t make a lot of sense to focus on bringing in a PG, now. Trading for a quality starting PG, in their prime, is difficult and extraordinarily expensive. Why pay the price, if you can fill the need with one of your own developing players? On the other hand, if like KV and DJ, you think Bayless “will never be a PG,” then looking for a replacement for Miller becomes a big priority.
The geezers seem like the epicenter of much of the “Blazers must upgrade their PGs” thinking, that filters down to BE. Both guys are old school (although I am older than KV) and seem to be stuck on the notion of classic Stockton/Nash PGs. Neither seems to have fully caught on the the effects of the new handcheck rules that place a very large premium on PGs who can score, in general, and penetrate, in particular.
Both guys made up their minds about Bayless very early on, “He isn’t a real PG. He is an undersized shooting guard who doesn’t shoot very well.” That wasn’t a bad or unfair description of Bayless’ rookie season. He posted a PER of 8.3 and a TS% under .500, while putting up an AST% of 18.3 and an AST/TO of 1.8. These are pretty poor numbers. You had to squint pretty hard to see Bayless’ potential.
The problem with this POV is that it closed peoples eyes to the very significant improvement in Bayless’ game. Bayless PER improved more than any one’s on the roster in both absolute and percentage terms from 8.2 to 14.3. His TS% jumped to .534 which is better than Miller’s, and better than what Roy posted in his sophomore season. Bayless’ 3 pt shooting improved from .259 to .315 and improved again in the latter part of the season and the playoffs to 40% for the last two months of the season.
Some fans seem blinded to Bayless’ effectiveness as a scorer because they focus on his jump shot and the relatively high number of shots he has blocked on his way to the rim. These folks miss the fact that Bayless’ ability to get to the line 6.7 times per 36 minutes of PT, greatly increases his overall efficiency. If Bayless can continue to improve his shooting and combine that with his ability to get to the line, he has a chance to become an extremely efficient, quadruple threat scorer who can 1) score in the open court and on penetration; 2) get to the line, 3) create his own shot, and 4) hit a decent percentage as a spot up shooter. There are plenty of perimeter players who can do one or two of these things well. Guys who can do all four are very difficult to defend. The defensive attention needed to slow these guys down opens up a lot of easy opportunities for their teammates to score.
Many of Bayless’ critics will reluctantly admit that the kid is a pretty good scorer, but remain adamant in their perception that he will never be a decent distributor. I think it is fair to say that there is decent statistical and anecdotal evidence on both sides of this debate. Bayless did seem to struggle at times running the second unit late last season. Were those struggles evidence that he lacks “court vision” as his critics are so fond of saying? Or, was it just a reflection of the fact that the second unit as a group wasn’t up to the task? Howard struggled mightily trying to anchor the interior defense of the second unit. Both Martell and Rudy where mired in terrible shooting slumps and together shot less than 35% after the All-Star break. Was the lousy shooting their fault or Bayless’? I don’t think there are real clear cut answers to any of these questions.
What I do think was pretty clear is that Bayless played much better in the playoffs. Instead of subbing in the whole second unit, Nate started playing Bayless more with Miller and Roy and more with other members of the first unit. Bayless’ results were much better when used this way. His AST%, which had improved to 22.3 during the regular season, jumped up to to 27.9. His TO% which had dropped from 19.3 his rookie season to a respectable 13.8, dropped further to a very good 9.6. He ended up with an AST/TO of 3:1, which is in line with the performance of the top PGs in the league.
There are plenty of examples of young guys who develop as distributors over their first few seasons in the league. There are also plenty of examples of guys who never do. I think the best we can say about Bayless is that all of the key indicators are moving significantly in the right direction.
Given these facts, I think it makes sense to give Bayless another year, or at least until the trade deadline, to show what he can do. The cost of waiting is pretty low. The cost of trading for another PG is very high.
Of course, if New Orleans decides to have a fire sale on CP3, all bets are off……..
*All stats come from BasketballReference.com
by upper left corner on Jul 7, 2010 8:48 AM PDT reply actions 4 recs
REC
People of the “he’s just not a point guard, he’s just not.” camp drive me nuts. It’s like the “true Scotsman” fallacy.
Come on you gotta listen unto me,
lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be. ~Johnny Cash
by HurraKane212 on Jul 7, 2010 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
2nd Rec
Yeah I like Bayless as well. People keep saying that Roy can’t play with a ball controlling PG. He needs someone to bring the ball up, give it to him at the top of the key and let him create a play. All the PG needs to do is keep the other team honest by spreading the floor and attacking the rim to keep the pressure off Roy. That’s a role I think Bayless can grow into. My only real concern with JB is that he looks one-dimensional sometimes and is easy to plan for in games (ie. getting blocked a few times driving to the hoop during the PHX series).
My only real concern with JB is that he looks one-dimensional sometimes and is easy to plan for in games (ie. getting blocked a few times driving to the hoop during the PHX series)
There’s no doubt that if JB learned to shoot a pull-up floater he’d be even more deadly
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
KV and DJ really should have no excuse
because if they look back 25 years they’ll see another young fella who came to Portland without any PG skills whatsoever and still developed into a pretty good sidekick for another dominant Blazer SG
- in your hearts, and I’m not talkin’ ’bout Bobby Gross
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Bayless did seem to struggle at times running the second unit late last season. Were those struggles evidence that he lacks "court vision" as his critics are so fond of saying? Or, was it just a reflection of the fact that the second unit as a group wasn’t up to the task?
Being paired with a disinterested Rudy in the backcourt couldn’t have been benificial for Bayless last spring, I want to Jerryd him in come off the bench and play the 1 with Roy at the 2 for at least half a season before reaching the conclusion that he can’t get it done
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I completely agree that giving Bayless another year is the least we can do. Not that you had to convince me.
I’m curious though, how many of these stats do you have memorized? You’re quite practiced at citing them (which I applaud).
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
I like Bayless
he seemed like the only one besides Roy and Miller that had a desire to win that series. The dude is fearless too and with his work ethic he is bound to get better.
Not sure what the point is of
taking averages of averages, unless you weight them for minutes.
Bottom line is Blazers couldn’t stop the constant penetration, pick and rolls, etc. of their guards which resulted in a lot of open threes and Amare.
Agreed
Let alone, making a point by using six games against one team. Andre shot 20% for the year from 3pt!
The stats in the series may support the point you’re making and certainly a healthy Roy would have improved the Blazers’ chances, but our inability to shoot the ball from the perimeter and to defend the quicker PG’s had a huge impact in the series.
Now do a shooting guard comparison
and you’ll discover the real reason why Portland lost the series
what should’ve been the Blazer’s strength became a weakness when Roy hurt his knee, Rudy couldn’t pull his head out and J-Rich and L-Barb outplayed them both
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
complete truth
That, along with our inability to punish Nash on defense, was one of the most major factors.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
yeah miller is Nice
i like steals, and ballhawking skills.that bald guy on the pacers summerleage team with the cut on his head was a real all up in your business kind of guy.

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