Chris Paul: Knicks, Magic, Mavs or.. Blazers?
Chris Broussard of ESPN.com says Chris Paul has four names on his destination list. Portland is one of them.
-- Bumped to front page. -- Ben
over 1 year ago
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Heard it....
I wont lie, I’m a little giddy. Rich Cho get to work baby!
by JimmieG on Jul 22, 2010 8:00 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I want an apology from every person here
who said there was ZERO chance of this ever happening. All those nay-sayers that turned their nose up at anyone who even typed Chris Paul’s name.
picture me rollin'
by Utah Sucks on Jul 22, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 9 recs
You tell em… Too bad Paul is a poor fit for Roy. Two ball dominate guards a championship does not make.
by dan04103 on Jul 22, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's why I think the Blazers end up giving Roy for Paul
I’d do it. Would you?
by hkphooey on Jul 22, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
No.
The improvement to the team in such a trade would be incremental at best. And Roy makes too much sense as the face of this franchise, and is far more likely to stay in Portland long-term.
no joke
the idea that Paul and Roy couldn’t play together is ridiculous to me
by sammymohawk on Jul 22, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
only exceeded in it's ridiculousness by the counter argument:
“but they played great together in the all star game, which proves they will play great together on the same team 100 games a year”
For the record, they would have no problem playing together in my mind, but pointing to the all star game as proof is just laughable.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
People have done that in the past
though I think everyone eventually realized that it was such a laughable suggestion, most have since dropped it.
people on this site have used that argument repeatedly
and they were actually serious
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
I don't think it's proof they fit style wise, but...
I think, in their case at least, it speaks to a certain level of personal chemistry and willingness to work together and perhaps compromise that wasn’t there with Roy and Andre, for instance. It’s psychological.
If we traded for Paul, I bet you wouldn’t hear Roy saying stuff about not knowing his role or that Paul needed to meld his game to Roy’s as was the case with Andre. And I honestly think part of that would be their familiarity from the All-Star game. Kind of like the bonds formed between LaBron, Wade, and Bosh on the national team, only on a much smaller level, of course.
Don’t discount the psychological aspect of chemistry.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
certain level of personal chemistry and willingness to work together and perhaps compromise that wasn’t there with Roy and Andre, for instance.
How does this perception continue? Miller and Roy never had any sharp disagreements, and by the end of the season they were playing extremely well together. I suspect this anti-Andre sentiment comes more from fans who don’t like Miller’s game and are seeking to project their feeling on Nate, Brandon, etc
Roy improved his overall game by learning to play off the ball last year, and he’s not interested in “going back” to his previous way of doing things (because the old way wasn’t winning playoff games?) So the worn-out take that Roy needs a deep-shooting PG to play alongside him is fan (or media) sentiment, and not necessarily what the Roy or Blazer management believes to be true, anymore
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
and if CP3 is acquired
then Andre has helped facilitate this change in Roy’s mindset so Brandon should be better prepared to play alongside Paul
In other words, it’s all good. Don’t be stirring up negative vibes between Roy and Dre that simply aren’t there
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
After that first All Star Game
Roy said he would be a bad fit alongside CP3. As absurd as that sounds. Roy likes him the basketball.
In KP I trusted!
Roy might just be
the highest maintenance guy in the NBA.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
"The Decision" presented by ESPN would like to disagree with you.
"this is portland…every little thing is blown out of proportion here" - Philthyanimal
by GustyJ on Jul 22, 2010 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
well,
Wade and James seem to be willing to put their status aside and work together. I would have thought those were a couple of the highest maintenance guys in the league.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
Roy said he would be a bad fit alongside CP3. As absurd as that sounds. Roy likes him the basketball.
It doesn’t matter, that’s in the past. These are the same compatibility arguments that we went through last year with Miller and Roy, and after the all-star game Brandon figured out how to play “off” the ball with Andre, and he just mentioned last week in Vegas how “you’re really not a leader if you get your own way all the time”
So try to keep up, and stop living in the past. Brandon and Andre played extremely well together in March-April, but it seems that all fans want to remember is the start of the season when Blake was starting and Miller wasn’t happy, or the playoff series where Roy’s knee was recovering from surgery and he didn’t have his normal rhythm or lift
There’s no reason to dwell on the negative, because Brandon made huge strides last year towards becoming a more complete player, in spite of (or perhaps because of) his injuries
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Actually, I wasn't referring to anything Andre said, but rather stuff Roy said.
I recall Roy talking about the need for Andre to shift his game to fit along side Roy and into the Blazers’ system. And I’m also referring to various statements Roy made early last year about not knowing his role in light of the Miller acquisition.
I wasn’t aware that Roy said he wouldn’t fit well next to Paul. That’s certainly interesting and would seem to contradict my impression that he would enjoy playing along side Paul if still true.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
And what happened by the end of the season isn't the point...
I’m referring to their attitude going into the season. And again, I’m really referring to Roy’s attitude going into the season.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
Why worry about that, now?
Cleary Brandon’s attitude changed as the season went along, and the proverbial light bulb came on for him the month when he was out with his injured hammy and he watched how Miller ran the team. Brandon said at the time that he and Andre came to an understanding of each others game so that when he returned to the court the team went on a run and the backcourt play was sensational. They would take turns posting up the smaller guards and Dre would set Roy up to score without always relying on the ISO.
Everything was going great until Artest stepped on Brandon’s foot the week before the playoffs, that injury messed up the Blazer’s post season, and the Sun’s series has left a bad taste in the mouth of many Blazer fans. But what came before Roy’s injury was very encouraging—and I expect the team to pick up right where they left off (before Roy was hurt) next fall—while integrating Oden, Przy and Matthews into the lineup and learning new defensive concepts from Bob Ociepka
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
As I say below
I don’t see any way that NOH both trades Paul and then goes back over the tax threshold. Taking Roy for Paul ensures both of those.
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
why would the hornets do that
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt
by thomasikehara on Jul 22, 2010 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh you mean like Pippen and Jordan?
Pip ran the point, and Jordan handled the ball plenty too …
It can work, especially since both players have legitimate range on their jumpers.
by nikolokolus on Jul 22, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Pippen was not a ball dominating player. He played off the ball mostly. He brought the ball up the court, sure, but he played predominately off the ball. Jordan was the ball dominate player on the team.
Jordan had the ball for a slightly higher percentage of the time, but both of them had such implicit trust in each other that it really didn’t matter which one had it. It was never an issue. It was never “Jordan has to get his touches.” (At least not after Doug Collins was replaced as coach and the new staff convinced MJ this was a team game and if he wanted to win, he had to trust his teammates.)
Pippen also wasn’t a point guard. He did frequently bring the ball up, but the absolute beauty of that system is that versatility is valued, and it was just part of his skill set. Any of a number of players could and did bring the ball up for those teams. Ron Harper, MJ, Pippen or any of the points that played with them over the years (BJ Armstrong, John Paxon, Steve Kerr) – any of them would bring it up. I know this sounds like crazy talk to Nate McMillan fans, but there’s not a rule that says only one guy on the floor can bring the ball across mid court.
Hopefully Cho took chemistry
Please don’t gut the team for this experiment…
Geriatric Dunk Squad!
1/4/10 - Juwan Howard dunks on Chris Kaman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTkOqDgLb6s
3/7/10 - Andre Miller Tomahawk jams on the Denver Nuggets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-JVgm7F1QA
4/12/10 - Marcus Camby drops 30 and 13 on OKC to cement 50 wins. http://www.nba.com/blazers/media/camby_chant_041310.mp3
by Eat Politicians on Jul 22, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
You make it sound as if we already have it all wrapped up, all this is going to do it start the endless stream of fanposts and fanshots again, along with links to terrible trades done in the ESPN trade machine. Chris Paul has no leverage what so ever. NO doesn’t have to trade him. Broussard even said on SC that he sees Paul starting the season on the Hornets roster.
by Jam Master Jay on Jul 22, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Right on.
Chris Paul is NOH’s Rudy Fernandez.
…but super-duper talented and paid, like, out of this world.
Stealth > Wealth
Thank you, Travis Outlaw.
“paid like out of this world” is the new “CTC”.
CKTK: A music blog. We write about what we want to write about.
#14
Thanks be given to Rasheed Wallace.
“CTC” Cut The Check.
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
by OCBlazerFan1 on Jul 22, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
actually I made it sound as if there is a greater than 0% chance of it happening
which I believe to be true.
picture me rollin'
UTAH, what is there to apolgize for.....you act like cp3 is without a doubt coming to Portland.
PORTLAND is at the bottom of all the teams that he wants to go to.
His 1st choice is to go to the Knicks to play with Amare and hopefully Carmello (which I don’t see happening).
The next two were the Lakers and the Magic who really don’t have the assets to trade for cp3.
While Portland has the expiring contracts and the young players that the Hornets would need to help them rebuild he still put the Blazers last and might have to be talked into coming to Portland.
How much is Portland willing to give up to trade for Paul…..Roy and Oden are off the board from the jump. With Matthews on board I would try and build the trade around Batum-Fernandez-Miller-and Pryzbilla. To trade for Paul the Blazers have to take on Okafor’s contract.
I think the Blazers are going to trade LA to try and get Paul because they would have way to much money in Bigmen: Camby just signed for big money, Okafor has big money and Oden will won’t 8-10mill a year.
I hope Cho can figure out how to make this work and not gut the team of it’s core of young players.
Kenneth Lewis Moore
by lightskin350 on Jul 22, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
My question is
do they want to add another all-star level PG that keeps Collison on the bench?
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
How good is Nelson in NO?
I haven’t watched him a ton, but I think he really benefits from the weapons around him. I don’t recall him facing a ton of defensive pressure. It would be very different in NO.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
the answer to your question is NO
if they didn’t have a ready and waiting PG in place to take over for Paul, I doubt they would ever consider trading him.
picture me rollin'
They never have been considering it
Chris Paul is MAKING them consider it. I’m sure they’d love a PG rotation of Nelson and Collison. I love the idea of Chris Paul in Portland, but I’m not convinced we have the assets to do it. I think if he IS going to be traded, he is headed to NY for a package including Anthony Randolph, Wilson Chandler, and Eddy Curry (expiring).
Any way you slice it, Randolph and Chandler are more enticing than Batum and Rudy. And if we include Aldridge, how much do we actually improve our team? I think half of the excitement about Paul is what he can do for Aldridge and Oden.
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
by StuckeyDuck on Jul 22, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I would offer: Bayless, Batum, Przybilla, Miller, and draft picks galore for Paul and Posey.
That is the best we can do. And we hope that Posey and Matthews are good enough to be our defensive stoppers.
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
by StuckeyDuck on Jul 22, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
And add Rudy to that, I forgot him.
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
by StuckeyDuck on Jul 22, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
The Nuts
I LOVE this trade. It fills our needs to a T and it gives NO some great assets. I don’t see how Orlando or NY or Dallas can match what we can give NO in talented young players and expiring contracts. We could win it all next year if this trade happens. Brandon will be dynamic playing with Paul. I love all-star backcourts. Remember Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars? They were awesome together, as all Blazers fans remember well. With CP3 in the lineup Roy will start moving without the ball because he knows he’ll get it. Bedgers are right, Paul needs the ball to get all those assists. Posey starts at SF and Mathews backs up Roy and Posey. This trade is golden.
I would let them choose Aldridge or Oden and play hardball with including Batum, instead.
but hey, maybe you’re right and we can just swap jeff pendergraph heads up for CP3.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
Yeah, I dig it.
I wish there was a way we didn’t have to get rid of Batum seeing how we have already given up Webster. Getting rid of two of our best defensive player in the pre-season could be a huge risk. We need Oden to step it up like we all know he is capable of.
by Jared Kraemer on Jul 24, 2010 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
thing is, we can out-do NY EXCEPT maybe budget wise.
i’d like to curbside consult storyteller, but if the knicks are still under the cap they could swallow some to pick up paul. If not I bet they’re kicking themselves for not getting a’’’ma’’’re for less than the max.
Any way you cut it, we can offer a more attractive package talent wise. a package centered on batum + either oden or aldridge would be something NOH would consider. Especially if we finagled a way to take okafor off their hands.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
NY is only about $2.5 million under the cap
after signing Stoudemire, Felton and Mozgov – and trading for Randolph, Azubuike and Turiaf.
yes and no.
they want an all star level PG that keeps Collison on the bench.
but i think they’d rather find a way to KEEP THEIR all star PG to keep collison on the bench.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
Plus
Peja’s expiring and no longer a concern for the Hornets, IMO.
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
couldn't you throw in Peja to a deal
and take back 25% less in expirings? Saving a little over $3mill
picture me rollin'
They could
I just think they’d rather do the same thing with someone like Posey, taking the short term savings as well as long term savings….
That’s why I say that his salary is no longer a concern. If they can trade him for another expiring but less expensive contract, sure they might do it. But it’s not a priority…
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Proposed Trade?!
It works in the trade machine.
Portland gives NOH:
LMA, JPEC, Rudy, and Andre
NOH to PDX:
CP3 & Okafor
by schackdaddy on Jul 22, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
And NOH probably goes over the tax threshold
Losing millions of dollars.
The Hornets say no.
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions
that trade doesn't make sense.
get peja off the books by swapping for vinsanity? vince has 2 years to peja’s 1. It’d make more sense to pop in okafor and they just stomach keeping peja.
Hell, with the way he’s been the last 5 years there’s a chance he goes into injury retirement and gets subsidized.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
How about
this one
PDX:
in: CP3
out: Miller, Nic, JB, Rudy
NO
in: Miller, Nic, JB
out: CP3, Okafor
NJ
in: Okafor, Rudy
out: cap space
We use NJs cap to take Okafor off their hands, and we sweeten the pot with Rudy for their troubles, while getting a great D 4/5 to pair with the O minded Lopez.
NO gets out of both Okafors contract and gets youth, imediate cap relief and future expirings for CP3s. Throw in a few picks and some $$ as lube and we can have a go.
Maybe grab Ross as a stop gap SF, it works either way.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=28j6hs2
Bayless and Roy= Fire and Ice (TM)
Spread the word
by SpyderRyder on Jul 22, 2010 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Paul is on record
specifically saying that he wouldn’t want to go to Portland if LaMarcus Aldridge or Brandon Roy have to be given up for him.
That would indicate to me that most every other player on the roster is available, particularly ones with expiring deals, (Przybilla, Miller) unhappy players (Rudy), and some good young players that NO can rebuild around (Batum, Bayless?) Batum also has the fortune to reunite with Monty Williams again down there, which might be the best thing for him.
This leaves a huge hole at the 3, which we hope could be filled by Dante Cunningham/Wes Matthews, but a starting backcourt of Paul/Roy is just too hot to ignore. There are very few good perimeter defenders as is, and with a healthy frontcourt, our guards would absolutely kill.
by vitaminx on Jul 22, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
not exactly what he said - and he's not on record at all
Paul’s reaction was simple: Why would I want to go there if they have to trade LaMarcus Aldridge or Brandon Roy to get me? I’d want to play with those players.
A) it was a hypothetical based upon a faulty assumption on his part (that Roy or LMA were in the original offer)
B) it’s not even a direct quote, but a 2nd hand source.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
No
I act as if all those snobs who attacked anyone who mentioned Chris Paul as a Blazer are actually wrong when they say there is a zero % chance of it happening. Now its on the front page of this very Blog.
Do you all still think the chances are at ZERO?
picture me rollin'
by Utah Sucks on Jul 22, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
don't have the assets?
did you just say the defending NBA champs and the premier up and coming now “other” team in FL don’t have assets?
How, exactly, do you think they won games?
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
I think it's because all of their assets are on long, expensive contracts
and not too young either. Thus the opposite of what NO would want.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
what are you talking about...
CP3’s list was in alphabetical order. Not in order of importance; get your facts straight if you want to make a valid argument.
by Jared Kraemer on Jul 24, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
It's to late to apologize
Chris Paul ain’t never gonna be a Blazer none.
by tominhawaii on Jul 22, 2010 11:34 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Seriously
Who turned this green?
Al Gore wants an apology from everyone who said there isn’t global warming.
Cortney Love wants an apology from everyone who said she couldn’t get off drugs.
Michael Jackson wants an apology from everyone who said he’d only be remembered as a pedophile.
it's not happening guys.
get excited if you want but Paul aint coming, besides roy need the dang ball so much do seem any kind of way effective, playing with paul wouldn’t work no more than with miller, plus i think we all agree Roy’s a star, didnt say superstar but star, Star’s have ego’s he probably wouldn’t be to happy with playing with a guy thats probably a superstar, its not like we cant win without paul so im sure he rather win without paul then with him. dont get it twisted i hope we can get paul, but roy will have to learn to play great without the ball, which he hasn’t yet.
by Blazingatrail24 on Jul 22, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you're
underestimating both Roy & Paul.
I’m hoping we have problems with opponents doing the same thing next year.
Except no one in the NBA would underestimate Roy & Paul, so…
Yeah but what you be willing to give up?
If Duke ever built a Cameron Outdoor Stadium, it would be Autzen.
Any combo of
Bayless, Rudy, Batum, Cunningham, miller, and joel. Or even all 6 if need be.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Batum's the only one that makes me go "yikes"
especially considering Martell’s gone…
Can Matthews play SF?
He played SF at Marquette
and he’s gaurded everybody from Carmelo to Kobe … so yeah, I’d say he could play a little small forward.
by nikolokolus on Jul 22, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
And if Posey comes back, he can play some SF too
He’s old, but he is still a bull dog. And we’d be a contender. Playing for a contender tends to bring out the best in vets.
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
by StuckeyDuck on Jul 22, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Anybody short of Roy
If you can snag Paul, you have to do it, even if it means losing Oden or LMA
Holding out for Hedo
I would trade Roy straight up for Paul
Wesley could start at SG
Is it to much to ask that we build a championship roster and stay below the luxury tax...
I would too but there are a couple things wrong with that
1: Paul is good friends with Roy and has said he wants to play with him
2: His contract has a lot more years and a lot more money left than Paul’s.
picture me rollin'
I think you start off with...
Miller, Rudy, Bayless, Joel
Trade works money wise, and now with CP3 publicly asking to leave the Hornets have less buying power. We would be stupid to offer all our assets on the first try.
If that didn’t work then I would second with…
Miller, Rudy, Batum, Joel
Again trade works money wise. Hurts a little more, but at least in this trade we keep Bayless as the backup point until Armon Hammer fills in.
by Buckwill on Jul 22, 2010 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not sure if those trades work...
Remember that both Joel and Paul have trade kickers…Trading for Paul, while doable, is very tricky money wise. The Blazers can’t take back as many “bad” contracts as teams like NY can, but Portland can send more talent. So the Hornets would have to choose, young talent or cap space, I would choose the talent, because Cap space is up in the air with the new CBA.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Correct me if I'm wrong
but I think storyteller chimed in a while ago and said that trade kickers are not applied when a max contract is involved. I’m probably am not remembering this correctly. Does anyone remember what storyteller said?
by parkinglotj on Jul 22, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Sorry
storyteller answers this…scroll down.
by parkinglotj on Jul 22, 2010 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Plus The Coach would want players he is comfortable with
Monty is a huge asset for us
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jul 22, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions
we'd have to send Camby
because NO is insisting on Okafor going with Paul. So the Blazers send Andre Miller, Rudy Fernandez, Jerryd Bayless, Nicolas Batum and Marcus Camby; NOH sends Chris Paul, Emeka Okafor. Only way the money really works..
or Joel instead of Camby and thrown in Pendergraph and either Babbit or Willaims
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Joel is far more attractive to NOH than Camby
Joel is a $7 mil expiring contract, Camby would be on the books for multiple years.
But Camby gives them a center for 2 years
A better option than Okafor on the defensive end. And they’ll need a center if they trade Okafor. Unless they want to go with Aaron Gray…..
Monty knows the players the Blazers have...other than Batum he's not buying.
Hopefully they go the route of expiring contracts to get this done – Pryz and Miller, but ultimately Blazers lose Batum in this.
I LOVE Batum, one of my favorites on the team
But for Chris Paul, I’m fine with it. We need to consolidate anyway.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
Would Monty want SEVEN blazers on his roster?
This works and it does same N.O some big money in the next two years:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=27lwtz5
We’d look like this:
Paul / Johnson / Mills
Roy / Matthews
Posey / Matthews / Babbitt
Aldridge / Okafor /Pendergraph
Oden / Okafor
Not much depth, but an incredible top 7. And if Babbitt develops he can start over Posey next year.
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
by StuckeyDuck on Jul 22, 2010 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
save*
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
by StuckeyDuck on Jul 22, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
That's probably not necesary
I think NOH wants to unload either Okafor (if they can get a young center back) or Posey but I don’t think they will demand unloading them both.
I think Chris Paul should announce an exclusive ESPN press conference.
After about an hour he can tell us definitively which team he’s decided to accept.
#52
sounds like an excellent PR move
what could go wrong?
Geriatric Dunk Squad!
1/4/10 - Juwan Howard dunks on Chris Kaman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTkOqDgLb6s
3/7/10 - Andre Miller Tomahawk jams on the Denver Nuggets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-JVgm7F1QA
4/12/10 - Marcus Camby drops 30 and 13 on OKC to cement 50 wins. http://www.nba.com/blazers/media/camby_chant_041310.mp3
by Eat Politicians on Jul 22, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
That would make the Wes Mathews signing make more sense.
I think we will end up with Okafor which I can live with (assuming it goes down). I would be a little worried about what Orlando and Dallas can offer. This whole thing makes me wonder how much I really want CP3 though… he is kind of coming off as a whinny little… well you know. But I would probably love him the first game he was suited up and I can’t blame him for being frustrated with a team not committed to winning.
That's been my worry all along
I’ve seen CP get all over his team for making mistakes and whatnot plenty of times. Sure he really wants to win, and that may even be good for the rest of our guys, I don’t know though. He just comes off as a poor leader at times. Brandon could whip him into shape though. :P
Greg Oden ate my baby. Need money for body-building training so that I may take my revenge.
by JJWeatherman on Jul 22, 2010 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Lets work it
I have heard the Kings needs Guards and Portland needs a good back up PF maybe the new GM could get Carl Landry for Bayless and Rudy that would take of both teams needs. And then the new GM could go after CP3 just wait. New Orleans has talked about cap releaf well Portland could offer over 14 mil in releaf in Przybilla and Millers contracts for CP3. and then the Blazer would have their back pf and their PG of the future. Ok let me have it ! and tell me why these teams can’t and won’t make these deals. I know everyone has a 1000 reasons why they don’t make these deals. I think it takes care of the needs for all three teams. And yes Portland does make out like a bandit but hay thats what we like to dream about as fans your team getting the best deals. And your team win
.
3-way, with Landry coming here
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2bq4swb
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
by StuckeyDuck on Jul 22, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
That's way too perfect to actually happen
NBA trades never make that much sense.
I was just doing this same trade,
except with Sacramento taking some of NO’s bad contracts. This makes more sense because they have the cap room, and so Peja can reunite with the Maloof brothers to retire where he got famous. This is a good trade
by therobophobe on Jul 22, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha
If you think we’re gonna get Chris Paul for just Miller and Przybilla you are NUTS. And then you add Landry too? Too good to be true my friend. I wish . . .
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
add dalembert to NO and Camby to Sac
Sac would be amenable and NO would be happy to get the expiring deal instead of Camby
Good thought
But I was under the impression that Sac actually wanted Dalembert.
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
stop posting this in every single thread, please
Landry is probably one of Sactown’s top 4 players, and Nawlins wants to dump a bad contract as well, at least.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
Ok, this comes down to 2 questions for me:
1. Which team will Paul feel like he has the best chance of winning with?
2. Which team has the most assets to offer to NO in a trade?
I’d say it has to be between the Magic and us. I can’t see why Paul would ever want to go to NY when he’s said he wants to go play for a contender.
"Nicolas! You're the strongest boy in the world!"
Dude Amar'e said New York was building a dynasty...
are you telling me he lied.
Amere
"Sometimes I catch myself watching him and he's shooting floaters all-net. And just to watch how he's talking trash. I loved it. I loved every minute of it. Rudy's a competitor." - Brandon Roy
by Trail Ducker on Jul 22, 2010 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions
ignoring like 10 other factors
quality of life, friends, coaches, etc.
Paul is an actual human being who does stuff besides play basketball. He’ll probably consider other factors
He’d want to go to NY because Melo can sign there next year, according to reports
I love how one day
Hollinger says it won’t happen for at least a year, if ever, and the next day, Broussard says that it could happen before the star of the season. ESPN is hilarious.
Personally though, while I trust Hollinger for some statistical stuff (but not a whole lot), I think Broussard has the better track record with inside info.
Hollinger can be stupid.
Really, his “statistics” are little more than playing around with numbers until they support your already established opinions.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune
by Muad'Dib on Jul 22, 2010 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
he is alright most of the time
but when he goes the route you describe he goes whole hog
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Yep. Completely arbitrary.
I wish ESPN put their advertising might behind a REAL statistician, someone who uses APM or SPM or Kevin Pelton with WARP or friggin’ anything other than John Hollinger’s pace-adjusted scoring measurement.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
Broussard has been pretty good in the past. I think this rumor has some weight to it.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Jul 22, 2010 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Hollinger, while one of my favorite, is more of a statistical analysis guy than breaking story guy.
Broussard has quite a good track records recently.
"I think he’s been doing some good things. I think he’s been doing some good things. He’s had to play a lot of minutes lately with Blake being out. I think he’s been doing some good things." -Nate McMillan
Beaubois is a PG though ( or combo)..
Since they have Collison already I would think that they would rather have a young SF (Nic) and/or SG such as Rudy..
He's young on a cheap contract
If you’re moving Chris Paul, you’re looking for the best players you can get, and sort out the line-up and roster issues later. I don’t think roster fit will be a huge issue, since they’ll be completely retooling anyway.
I don't think Beaubois is the best they can do
Not by a long shot!
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
Basically any/everyone besides Dirk
We’re kind of in a bad situation here. NY can offer more cap relief, and Dallas can offer more talent (assuming we wish to hold on to LMA, Oden, Roy, and/or Batum).
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 22, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
We'd have to give up at least Batum.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
now they wish they still had Dampier's contract
that thing was the big savings piece of the summer
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
Here's my trade for Paul
We bring in Indiana, who have been looking for a vet PG, because presumably NO wants to turn the team over to Collison, and we wouldn’t need Andre.
the problem with that trade is that Camby is untradeable.
We can’t sign a guy to an extension then trade him right after we just convinced him that he is a big part of our plans for the future. Other players would remember that incident for a long time. We would be class A jerks.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Jul 22, 2010 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions
I think it would be a little different if it were a trade for CP3.
But I don’t like the idea of moving Camby.
Seriously, that's the major holdup?
And you really think players would make a big fuss?
All right, we make a handshake deal with NO that they waive Camby, we send them $3M (or whatever) and we promise to re-sign Camby afterwards.
For all you know, NO is Camby’s fave place in the world, and he would LOVE to go.
since the team is over the cap
and already used it’s MLE to sign Matthews, we could only be able to resign Camby for the vet minimum, which he would reject. So that plan doesn’t work either.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Thats why we need to change GMs and.... oh wait we did
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jul 22, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Andre Miller isn't going to be the Pacers "young point guard of the future"
who can shoot from 3-point land. That’s what Bird has said he wants.
I am not getting my hopes up......but
I had a dream about Rich Cho last night. He was running a race track. I don’t know why he was, or why I would be at a race track. I drove on the race track and he kicked me off, saying only cars 2 years or younger could drive on his racetrack. I said “but this car is only 3 years old,” and he ignored me. I drove off the race track with him in my rear view mirror.
This indicates to me that the blazers will trade for Chris Paul.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Jul 22, 2010 8:57 AM PDT reply actions 5 recs
I actually had a weird dream last night, too.
I dreamed that we traded Babbitt to the Spurs for a future 2nd round draft pick. It was pretty random, but this also is an indication that we will trade for Paul.
"Nicolas! You're the strongest boy in the world!"
man you guys need to find some other hobbies or a girlfriend or something.
by Escrote on Jul 22, 2010 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Would you guys date a girl if she were a Laker fan?
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Jul 22, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Kobe lover?
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Jul 22, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't care if she were a fan but I am somewhat leery of a girl that
obsesses over celebrities.
heck no.
I dated a Celtics fan once and can only imagine that the L*ker fan would be twice as pompous as the Green monster. Personally, I find it hard to root for the sure thing, got a little bit of underdog in me as I suppose most Blazer fans do too. She took me to the Blazers/Celtics game a couple December’s back and proceeded to rub my nose in how the Celtics were going to win, until they lost (thank you Outlaw), and the night turned into a trainwreck and we broke up shortly afterwards, mutually. Lesson learned.
Get busy livin', or get busy dyin'. -the shawshank redemption.
by pdxborn on Jul 22, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
if three years from now
the Blazers are a sure thing, you won’t jump off the band wagon. You’ll enjoy the ride.
Its like being a spurs fan in that case
Just because you are the underdog doesn’t mean you have to be the one rooting for the Clippers. You want SOME hope, and when you get to the top, IF you get to the top, you’ll enjoy it more, that’s the rush.
by avalancheman on Jul 22, 2010 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I lived in So Cal for 17 years
To the best of my knowledge, no girl that I dated was a Laker fan
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
There are a lot of Anti-fans in Socal
I find about as many people that hate the Lakers as love them. And those haters are just as vehement as I am. Not only that, but they’re usually the locals. Imports tend to root for the Lakers more than lifers.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
I married a So Cal Girl
She is a spurs fan… go figure
Look, the first thing you do when you get in a relationship
is to start changing your partner into what you want them to be instead of what they are. It shouldn’t be that hard to transform any pre-existing fan feelings for the Fakers into Blazer obsession.
#52
I'd date her for a month then dump her.
Leave her in a mess.
"I think he’s been doing some good things. I think he’s been doing some good things. He’s had to play a lot of minutes lately with Blake being out. I think he’s been doing some good things." -Nate McMillan
by xedubx on Jul 22, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I had a dream night before last
in which I lived in Seattle in an old Victorian house converted into separate apartments. To get to my apartment you had to climb a flight of narrow stairs, and at the top there were three doors opening directly onto the stairs — there was no landing. I didn’t know which door was mine, but I had a key which presumably only fit one of them.
I don’t remember the rest of the dream, but I’m guessing that in the dream I was actually Chris Paul, and in one door was my future NBA team. Since it took place in Seattle, I wonder if CP3 will end up in OKC.
#52
Cap space > Expiring Contracts
Why save money next year when you can start saving today?
The good news, there are still quite a few teams with cap space. So the Blazers can “rent” cap space from one or more of these teams and only send the young, cheap players to New Orleans.
An example trade using this logic. I can’t use the trade machine because Chicago has not officially renounced their rights to their free agents. So instead I’m relying on storyteller.
Chicago gives:
1st rd pick (to NOH)
Chicago gets:
Marcus Camby: $10.6M
Rudy Fernandez: $1.5M
Sacramento ($13.8M under the cap) gives:
2nd rd pick (to NOH)
Sacramento gets:
Andre Miller: $7.3M
1st pd pick (from POR)
New Orleans gives:
Chris Paul $14.9M (to POR)
Emeka Okafor $11.5M (to POR)
New Orleans gets:
Bayless $2.3M (from POR)
Batum $1.2M (from POR)
1st rd pick (CHI)
2nd rd pick (SAC)
Portland gives:
Camby, Miller, Bayless, Rudy & Batum, 1st rd pick
Portland gets:
Paul, Okafor
New Orleans saves $22.9 million THIS YEAR in this deal. BTW, this deal works financially with or without Batum. I just don’t see why New Orleans does this deal without him when they can still wait 1.5 years to trade CP3.
by zbrum on Jul 22, 2010 9:12 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
That is indeed a cunning plan
I like it! We could also throw in the rights to (a couple of) our Euros.
Quibbles:
Does Chi. really have that much cap space left?
Why would Sacto want Miller? I get that Evans isn’t really a PG, but he’s also not a shooter, which is why he pairs up nicely with a shooter like Udrih.
Why would anyone with cap space help us assemble a juggernaut?
We don't have Euro rights anymore
Thought we rescinded them to open additional cap space this summer…
Not true
Portland still holds the draft rights to Freeland, Koponen and Claver.
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
did you figure into your numbers
CP3’s 15% trade kicker? Or is he waiving that to get traded to portland?
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
BFS1970 rightly pointed out a couple of weeks ago
that Paul’s trade kicker is moot until revenues go up significantly (15% +). His trade kicker can’t put him above the maximum allowed for him. Right now the max for him is either what he’s under contract for ($14.9 million) or the max available as a % of BRI ($13.6 million). Now, if the ‘calculated’ maximum were more than $15 million, then his trade kicker would be in play. But since it’s not…..
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
If Paul REALLY wants out
He’ll waive the kicker like Hedo did with Phoenix.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 22, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Limited ability to do so under the current CBA
The rule is that you cannot waive the whole kicker, but you can waive a portion of it if that extra portion is the difference between a trade being legal and not being legal.
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Ah, wasn't aware of that
Thanks for the knowledges Storyteller.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 22, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
story, seriously, do you get paid for looking this stuff up? you should.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
Sorry
Chicago, after getting Boozer, Watson, Korver and Brewer don’t have the $12 million in cap space that your plan requires.
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Ooops
I guess I missed that. Anyway, I do think it’s interesting to explore “renting” other team’s cap space to get this deal done. If you can save New Orleans $20 million THIS YEAR, then they’d have to at least think about it.
I think a 3rd team will need to be involved for capspace
Cho will know who the best options are
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
While he's at it...
can Cho negotiate a hostile takeover of the OKC team? We just need to absorb their roster and double our cap limit. Then this whole CP3 issue will be moot. We can start Westbrook/Roy/Durant/LA/Oden and have Miller/Harden/Batum/Green/Camby be our first team of reserves, followed by Maynor/Matthews/Thebo/Cunningham/Ibaka.
I don’t know why Cho hasn’t completed this deal already.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
by DC Blazer on Jul 22, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Was that reply necessary?
Rich has a book on all the NBA teams, he should know which ones need more capspace, which ones are looking for what kind of young talent, and which ones have specific roster needs to fill.
Bedgers are making direct trade proposals between the Blazers and the Hornets, I don’t think the Blazers have the capspace to pull off such a deal, and so they’ll have to bring at least one other team into the trade. Cho has the rep of being able to do this successfully, from his time with the Sonics/Thunder
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Sac doesnt want Miller
that just slows the development of Evans
but i like the thinking… a lot of teams
Here's a three team trade that could work.
by billyjoejack on Jul 22, 2010 9:26 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I can't remember the last time "reason" and Timberwolves ran into each other, they'd need to be introduced.
That said I can’t think that Kahn wants anything to do with that trade.
by SerenityNow! on Jul 22, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Batum, Andre, Joel and Rudy leaves us with...
a KILLER 8 man rotation.
CP3/Bayless/Roy
Roy/Matthews/Bayless
Matthews/Babbit
Aldridge/Camby
Oden/Camby
You can’t tell me that’s not a championship rotation. Not to mention you’ve potentially got Dante, Pendy, Mills, Armon, and Elliot to back em up. We’re a lot less injury proof – but the risk/reward is worth it. You can’t just be a deep injury proof team and win a championship. You have to have the elite rotation and good health on your side to make it happen. This gives us the best shot at anything in the immediate future.
To take it one step farther, we have a MLE next year to add a vet to this rotation. You’d be hard pressed to find a vet who wouldn’t want to join this squad. So – even if we don’t take it all this year, we’d have an extremely LEGIT chance to take it all the following year.
by lumberjak on Jul 22, 2010 9:37 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
needs work at SF
but we can figure that out as we go.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
getting Posey back would help
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Hey, it's that or Okafor
Shorter contract, fills a need if they take Batum.
I do not want Posey on this team
Okafor I’d be okay with if Joel were part of the deal
by sammymohawk on Jul 22, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
At least Okafor can play a little.
Really, they both have outrageous contracts that are totally not justified by their play. I would only take them on if it meant CP3 for multiple years.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.—Dune
Matthews would get killed by big SFs
And Posey of two years ago was a good player.
Since? Not even remotely.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 22, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
We need to bring back Viktor Khyapa
Dude was an all-star and defensive player of the year in the Euroleague last season.
How would SFs kill Matthews?
Matthews is an incredible defender…from what i understand, we attained him for his defensive skills. It’s not like he’d get killed whilst playing offense, either – he’s not there to be more than a dagger 3 guy. I don’t see that being a hang up. I think he’s the perfect back up wing – if we could attain a starting 3 and have matthews back up Roy and our new 3, that would be ideal. But that’s the MLE player we get next year.
How many big SF's are there?
Matthews and Dante could handle it, defensively. Also, LMA does well on some of the big SF’s, and if we had Okafor and Camby, he could play the 3 for short stretches in a big lineup.
Also, Utah had him guarding Carmelo...
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
I didn't see much of the Denver series but
didn’t Mathews do a decent job on Melo (at least I thought I heard that somewhere). Anyway if someone who watched that series could confirm this that would be nice because if that is true you don’t get much bigger at SF than Melo.
What?
Matthews would get killed by big SFs
Matthews played great defense on Melo in the Denver/Utah series this year.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Jul 22, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Melo is a special case
And got Matthews’ A-game.
Melo has always been a guy you can bully.
What about when we play Utah? AK will abuse Matthews. Randolph in NY would take him apart. Any long SF will give him serious problems.
He is a back-up 2/3. Let’s leave it at that.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 22, 2010 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Right now he is a back-up 2/3 in his second season.
He is only going to get better.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Jul 22, 2010 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree he'll get better
But he’s not going to get taller or longer.
I’d be okay with a Claver/ Matthews SF platoon, with each guy starting depending on the matchup.
But I can’t endorse getting killed on the defensive end and with rebounding.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 22, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I just don't see why you think he's gonna get killed on defense.
The guy got overpaid because he is a lock down wing defender, and he averaged 5 boards a game this playoffs. I’m more concerned with his lack of handles, which in my mind firmly makes him a 3 on this team.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Jul 22, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Because of pure length
Those guys I described have 6 inches height and MUCH more wingspan. Cuts to the hoop, offensive rebounds, post-ups, Matthews would be hard-pressed to combat all of those.
It’s okay to disagree on this, we don’t have enough body of work by Matthews to judge accurately one way or the other.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 22, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
idk what great defense is i guess
melo averaged 30 pts a game vs utah in the playoffs. 46%fg and 31% 3pt compaired to 28, 45% and 31% in the regular season. just looking at these numbers it looks about average.
#88
Melo said that Matthews was the toughest guy to play against
I think the numbers are more a testament to how good Melo is than how mediocre Matthews is defensively against SF’s.
Most straightforward trade
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
Chris Paul/ Armon Johnson/ Patty Mills
Brandon Roy/ Elliot Williams/ Demetris Nichols
Wes Matthews/ James Posey/ Luke Babbitt
LaMarcus Aldridge/ Cunningham/ Ekene Ibekwe
Greg Oden/ Marcus Camby/ Jeff Pendergraph
Yeah, baby….
by Mad Matt the Road Warrior on Jul 22, 2010 9:40 AM PDT reply actions
Sorry for the link....
By they way year 2012-13 Roster brings over Euros to replace Camby, Posey
Paul/ Johnson/ Koponen
Roy/ Williams/ 2012 Pick
Matthews/ Babbitt/ Claver
Aldridge/ Cunningham/ 2011 Pick
Oden/ Freeland/ Pendergraph
by Mad Matt the Road Warrior on Jul 22, 2010 9:59 AM PDT reply actions
This is straightforward
and the most legit trade offer out of all of these and makes sense for both sides. I suspect Miller would/could be spun to a 3rd team like the Pacers.
This is most traight forward trade.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=246zaes
Being a Blazer fan is not exactly healthy.
Nice try
But it’ll never happen…..
Waaaaaaaaay too lopsided in Portland’s favor.
That’d be like trading Roy to MIL for Maggette and Ilyasova
I don't think New Orleans would want both Miller and Bayless.
I had this thought earlier, too, but they are very excited about Collison understandably, and I think they’d prefer to nurture him. That to me means they’d rather have Miller, but not Bayless.
Maybe Miller, Rudy, Batum & Joel (EC).
If he goes to Miami......
My gosh, that just wouldn’t be fair! I would have to change my sig to “anyone playing the Lakers or Magic.”
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
you mean Heat
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Oops!
I misread that. Going to the Magic would still be bad, but NOT as bad as Heat!
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
by OCBlazerFan1 on Jul 22, 2010 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Questions
1) If NOH asks for both Batum and Oden, does Portland agree? If the Hornets give up Okafor, they will ask for a young center in return (ie, Lopez in any deal with NJ). So if they feel that they can risk Oden’s injury situation, they might ask for Greg. Is that a deal breaker for the Blazers?
2) Would the Hornets want either Babbitt or Williams? They can be traded in a couple of weeks and I don’t see Demps making a blockbuster trade during his first two weeks on the job. Last month, they could have been included but counted as $0 for matching purposes. Now their salary can be used (once the 30 days has passed) to help match salaries
seeing as how we are a fallback for him (apparently 4th choice on his list)
1) I would only do either Oden or Batum, but not both. Watch closely the Carmelo situation in Denver. If he signs an extension, then I would feel a lot better about trading for Paul. If he doesn’t than it appears more and more likely that Carmelo will sign in NY next summer and Paul will do everythng he can to force a trade to the Knicks.
2) the salary matching helps us make a deal of course, since we need all the salary we can get going their way for matching purposes, especially if we are taking Posey or Okafor back.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Problems with the Stoudemire/Paul/Anthony scenario
1) Amare can’t take less money (a la Wade) to clear room for the other two
2) If Paul is traded to NY, he also cannot take less money to clear money for Anthony. Is Carmelo willing to sign for $8 million?
3) Uncertainty about the new CBA and what the cap will look like going forward
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
i ran some quick numbers
Let’s say they trade for Paul now. Him and Amare count a combined 34,592,305 against the cap in 2011-12. Now say they dump all their other contracts, either as part of the Paul deal or other giveaways like we say so much of this spring. Add in 10 minimum salary cap holds, and they are still only at 39,392,305. Assuming no increase in cap, they have over $18 million free to sign Carmelo, which is more than his maximum of 16.3 million would be next summer, still leaving them another 2 million to either retain some of their existing players, or add another piece to the “big 3”. It’s all very doable, considering what we’ve just seen.
That said, the biggest obstacle is obviously your point (3) – no one knows what’s going to happen.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Give away the whole team again?
Sorry but I just don’t think that’s a viable strategy.
You’re also assuming they can get Paul without having to add a bad salary of Okafor or Posey……
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
im just saying it's possible
not plausible or likely.
12 months ago there weren’t too many people thinking that all those teams that cleared all that cap room would be able to do it – but they all did.
Even if NY has to take back a bad contract now, they would still have a year to figure out how to dump it again. And Paul wants to there and apparently ‘Melo might as well. If your NY, you probably at least go for it, right? Even if you don’t end up getting Melo, you still have Paul and Amare, and that’s better than where you are now, so where’s the downside?
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
I'm just saying
that there’s a difference between giving away $7 million in salary (Cook and Beasley) and trying to give away $20 million in salary.
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
12 months ago there weren’t too many people thinking that all those teams that cleared all that cap room would be able to do it
I remember as11osu talking about how NJ could get down 51 mil under the cap and sign 3 UFAs…which didn’t happen but Riley/Heat/Wade pulled off something similar
Obviously it helps when the star players are in cahoots
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
and when those star players
take alot less money. No one saw them actually doing that, because in the past, NBA players always took the money.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
unless they were signing with the L*kers
Like Malone, Payton, Artest, et al
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Yea, but what can NY trade for Paul now?
The big difference here is that he’s under contract. He doesn’t have the leverage LBJ and Bosh did. Even if he says he will only play for NY, I don’t see NO trading him for nothing/cap relief. And NY doesn’t even have future picks to offer (not that they’d be worth anything if they were going to land Paul and Anthony).
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
Gallinari, Chandler, Douglas, and Randolph for talent
expiriing contracts of Curry and Azubuike.
Turiaf as a mid-priced rotation player
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
They have assets, I just don't think they're sufficient
But I don’t think ours are either, unless we’re willing to give up Batum, Oden, picks, and expiring deals.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
just because the commentator listed us as fourth doesn't mean we are the fourth option
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jul 22, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I´d give them Greg
Greg and Nic I´m not sure because CP may leavfe after 2 years.
The best case for us would be oden+miller JPEC filler for CP and Okafor.
Why isn't anyone talking about Roy?
Sacrilege? Maybe. But it seems to me that’s why they signed Wesley Matthews – to also make Roy expendable. Chris Paul, Wesley Matthews, Nicolas Batum, LaMarcus Aldridge and Greg Oden is a really good starting five.
Paul wouldn't want to come if we traded Roy
And why would NO want Roy? His contract is longer than Paul’s.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
by DC Blazer on Jul 22, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
NO needs a shooting guard
And can Roy and Paul share the ball? I’d think Paul would love to come to a place that had a plethora of bigs and gritty perimeter defenders who can hit from range. After all, you can’t hope to match up to the Heat position-to-position so you go somewhere that offers up a different look.
Maybe, but not one with a 5-year max deal and iffy knees
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
Oden?
Why would they look to take a bigger risk with Oden? Or fear of the unknown with Batum? Roy is at least a sure thing. Plus he automatically slots in next to Collison in the back court and takes immediate pressure off his development by being able to share the ball-handling responsibilities. Why wouldn’t Monty want that?
Plus the Blazers lineup with Chris Paul in it, would be the toughest defensive team from 1-5 in the league. Add in Camby and Dante off the bench and that’s a scary defensive-minded team.
How is Oden a bigger risk than Joel?
Yet everyone seems to believe that they’d take Joel?
Worst case scenario in taking Oden is that he gets injured again and becomes an expiring contract that they can just let walk as a FA (the exact same scenario as Joel). But in the best scenario, they traded their franchise PG for a franchise C.
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
and don't forget
Cho knows how these knee surgeries tend to work out, so if he’s already told Paul Allen that Greg is a bad risk going forward…bada bing
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Here's why
1) As DC Blazer points out, the chances of keeping Paul long term pretty much hinge on him playing with Roy instead of being traded for him.
2) Because of Roy’s BYC status, the mechanics of a trade would require NOH taking back more salary than they give out. They just got under the tax threshold – I can’t see any scenario where they both trade Chris Paul and put themselves back in a position where they have to pay tax.
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
So we'd have to swap them some of the expirings or cap space from another team?
For Posey/Okafor/Peja right? As long as Paul Allen and Cho and the rest of the decision making see a clear upgrade than why not SPAM more for a shot at the big prize.
Yeah
Good luck getting another team to facilitate a trade of Paul to Portland…..
Trading expirings along with Roy still keeps them above the tax threshold for the 2010-11 season, which is the one year that they’re concerned about.
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
It would
Definitely cheaper if they keep LaMarcus out of it (or give us West in return). But that is terrible value.
Not fully
Portland can send a maximum of $3 million.
Here’s the problem – by going over the tax threshold, it’s a triple hit. They have to pay the extra salary, they have to pay the tax amount and they lose out on getting the rebate given to teams under the threshold (which was $3.7 million this year).
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
So then it's next to impossible that a deal would include
Roy for Paul unless it’s in a 3-way. Got it.
could they do a big trade for cp3
then follow it up with a few small pointless trades (por 2011 2nd + 3m for no 2011 2nd, pendy +cash for trade exception, future 1st +cash for future 1st)?
#88
Good luck getting another team to facilitate a trade of Paul to Portland…..
This is Cho’s specialty, finding deals that make sense for all the teams involved. It won’t be easy, but Rich doesn’t pick the low-hanging fruit
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Also
Any team in the East would likely be more concerned with:
1. The Miami superfriends
2. Keeping CP3 off of the Knicks and the Magic.
I agree that not every team would facilitate a trade, but what about teams like the Nets & the Bulls?
I like this point
Tell an eastern team with cap space that Paul is getting set to go to another eastern team. Help him go to the west instead, and we’ll even make it worth your while.
Disclaimer: everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazersedge.
it only takes one
but I think it will take at least one cooperative team, with capspace
(WC teams may not be in the mood to help out Portland, either)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
If we trade Oden and Batum, can we win a championship?
I don’t think we would be that much better than NO was two years ago. To some extent, I think Paul and Roy would cancel each other out just a little. And LA isn’t appreciably better than West. Camby would be very similar to the season Chandler had. Roy would obviously be better than Peja, but by how much? And our role players wouldn’t be that great.
We’d have a great offense, and probably a solid defense. But we would lack a dominant defense and transcendent go-to playoff scorer, the two things championship teams seem to have at least one or the other of.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
I disagree
even after trading Oden and Batum, Portland would have a much stronger supporting cast
Camby > Chandler
Roy >>>>>> Mo Pete
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree, we would be better
I’m just not convinced we’d be good enough to win it all.
If I were the GM though, and it hinged on my willingness to trade Oden and Batum, I suppose I would have to do it. You can’t pass on an amazing sure thing over someone as risky as Oden. And Batum’s ceiling just doesn’t appear to be high enough to be a sticking point.
But in hypothetical land, I still believe Oden is going to be amazing.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
Size and length
Are the Blazers strengths right now. I’d think we would want to keep that theme going at least until it’s proven not be the right one. And Oden and Batum epitomize this.
For everyone who is saying
CP3 and Roy couldn’t play well together, isn’t that the same thing said about LMJ and Wade?
Superstars can play together, they would have to sacrifice some individual stats, but most are willing if it means playing with other stars. I see no problem with Roy and CP3 playing together.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
by usmcr3049 on Jul 22, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
They would play great together
I’m pretty sure they have played well together on the All-Star team (before both sitting out last year). But obviously, there is some overlap.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
I'd give up just about any combination of players on the team
Except Brandon and Greg. If we don’t end up with a core of CP3, Brandon and Greg after blowing up the team, I don’t see the point.
I have no problem giving Batum away to get Paul. He’s probably the most important piece for them.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
by dan_the_man on Jul 22, 2010 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions
problem is
It’ll probably require Oden to make NO do the deal right now. Maybe down the road it’ll be different.
Would the Hornets want either Babbitt or Williams? They can be traded in a couple of weeks and I don’t see Demps making a blockbuster trade during his first two weeks on the job. Last month, they could have been included but counted as $0 for matching purposes. Now their salary can be used (once the 30 days has passed) to help match salaries
I’ve been speculating from the day they were drafted that Luke and Elliott could have been targeted as trade chips for a specific team in a future deal. The Blazers were in discussions with the Hornets for CP3 before the draft, so hard would it have been to ask “well, who do you like in the draft and if we can get them will that help bring us closer together re: Paul?”
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Interesting idea, but it's hard to believe any hypothetical deal would have survived the turnover of both GMs
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
Or that anyone for ANY reason would tip their hand to KP
About their intentions in the draft.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 22, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
there may be an equivalent to Larry Miller at NO
We know from the Portland side that the prior-to-the-draft CP3 negotiations went all the way up to Paul Allen, so I’d expect that the Hornet’s president (or whatever his title is) is probably very aware of whatever deals Bower was working on, last month
the change of GMs may actually make things easier, because in Cho’s case he might have a better “connection” with a 3rd team that Portland will need to facilitate the deal, and he likely has a different set of values re: Portland’s assets than KP did (and the same could be true re: the new GM in NO, compared to Bower) There’s no telling if Cho and Demp will be more or less aggressive than their predecessors, but CP3 has thrown down the gauntlet, so I’d expect Demp to make the first move
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Questions
1) If NOH asks for both Batum and Oden, does Portland agree? If the Hornets give up Okafor, they will ask for a young center in return (ie, Lopez in any deal with NJ). So if they feel that they can risk Oden’s injury situation, they might ask for Greg. Is that a deal breaker for the Blazers?
2) Would the Hornets want either Babbitt or Williams? They can be traded in a couple of weeks and I don’t see Demps making a blockbuster trade during his first two weeks on the job. Last month, they could have been included but counted as $0 for matching purposes. Now their salary can be used (once the 30 days has passed) to help match salaries
Gotta believe Oden and Batum gets it done
But even for Paul that’s gotta be a deal breaker.
Nothing stopping him from demanding a trade to NY next summer.
Can’t let GO of GO
by Chief Play Good Play Hard on Jul 22, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Trading for a player like Paul
might be like trying to sign a restricted FA – you might have to ‘overpay’ to get him….
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Might be true but it doesn't make it worth doing
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
I dunno that you give up Oden and Batum...
if CP3 raises a big enough stink NO has to take the best offer and can anyone really beat what Portland can offer Bayless, Rudy, Batum, and expirings? Although Orlando has some decent pieces.
So what if NJ is willing to give up Lopez
and Oden then becomes the difference between being able to get Paul and watching him play for Avery Johnson?
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
And since Harris almost certainly goes with Lopez to NO....
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
3-team deal or second trade with NO
Doubt they want Harris.
But why would Paul be any more willing to play in NJ than NO? Bigger market and more cap flexibility, but they won’t be winning any time soon if they trade Harris and Lopez for Paul, even if they manage to land Melo next summer. They would still have a giant hole in the middle.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
And I don't want Harris, either
I actually rather go with Johnson or Mills than Harris.
Just say no to Marbury Lite!
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Yea, Harris isn't very appealing to me either
Even at his best in ‘08-’09, he wouldn’t have paired well with Roy. Same problems Andre presents, better defense (though that’s supposedly diminishing), no veteran savvy. Doesn’t do it for me.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
Oden, Batum, Fernandez, Prysbilla, Miller for Paul and Okafor works
It might be enough to motivate NO to trade now instead of waiting and its probably more than anyone else can offer. Not sure if Portland is willing to trade a potential franchise center for a franchise point guard.
by chemistrymajor on Jul 22, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
can't trade all 3 centers
and expect to win
thats only two
And we would still have Camby and Pendergraph… not that I want him as my backup center.
by Junk Drawer Bandit on Jul 22, 2010 3:46 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
O yep
I wasn’t even thinking about Oka coming in. Even better.
by Junk Drawer Bandit on Jul 22, 2010 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions
That's not all three centers
We’d be giving them “Prysbilla.” It’s actually a very clever trick.
by Kaboomm on Jul 22, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh man, that's incredibly painful
But we’d probably have to do it.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
risk vs reward
the risk we take is trading away what there demands are for chris paul. It doesn;t help the blazers that there new head coach is our ex assistant he knows all the upside and downside to the players we offer in a trade…plus they are going to want batum and is he really worth the risk? the kids 21 hasn’t even flowered yet….. Then we have chris not being happy here in portland with how the team is ran ie Nate’s coaching style and he just leaves when his contract is up…. So in reality we have two years to win the championship is greg oden ready? i don’t think so.. do we have all the pieces to match up with LA or miami… again I don’t think so….
It's a big roll of the dice
if the Blazers sell the farm and acquire CP3 and then can’t extend him? It will be the Kiki Vandeweghe trade all over again
not a good scenario for Cho’s first deal, but he’s got an owner who will spend whatever it takes, and that’s gotta be more attractive for Chris than what he’s currently got going down in NO
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
exactly
if it was just 1 year left (like Parker), then I worry. Two years is an eternity. You go for it and hope deep playoff runs, the fanbase, and the owner’s willingness to spend can convince him to stay after that.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
New York
As continues to be reported, Paul wants to go to NY and have Carmelo come next summer as well, forming a new big 3 to combat Miami’s. As such, I would be real hesitant to give up too much for him.
NY can make it happen too. They can clear a max slot next summer pretty darn easily for Carmelo. And either before or after that they can trade for CP3. Felton, Turiaf, Gallinari, Chandler, Randolph, Douglas are all pieces that could be used in such a deal.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
not arguing with you
it’s not my idea, it’s their’s
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Hard to say until we see it in the finals
It would be a whole lot of fun to watch.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
by dan_the_man on Jul 22, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
wow
that would be a clash of super teams. Paul/Roy/Oden (if healthy) could all be top-three at their positions, as would Wade/Bosh/LeBron.
Wade's still much better than Roy
And Dirk and Pau are better than Bosh.
And Oden is years of production away from being better than Howard.
But that would be epic to watch, nonetheless.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 22, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Everything has, and does, and will depend on Oden.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
Larry Coon is on record -
and I agree with him – that the NY situation probably won’t allow for both Paul and Anthony to join the Knicks.
If you look at the numbers, NY can’t open a max slot if they pick up the team options for Gallinari, Randolph and Douglas this summer, even if they let Chandler walk for nothing. Is Carmelo going to leave Denver to take $12 or maybe $13 million from NY? And what if the new CBA cuts the cap number and the 2011-12 cap is lower than $58 million?
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
see my notes above
if guys like Gallinari, Randolph, and Douglas are part of the trade for Paul, or if they are given away next summer like a lot of guys were this year, then NY can easily clear a max salary slot for Anthony
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
I agree with Storyteller and Larry
it is very unlikely that NY could clear the cap space, and even more unlikely that if they were able to, that the team could compete anytime soon. Anthony and Amare are not Bosh and Wade, NY would still not be very good, and they would be in the east competing directly with the Heat, which would make it even more difficult.
If CP3 wants to win, as he has stated, and if the Hornets want young players + expiring deals, as teams in their position before them have done, then CP3’s best landing spot is Portland. Only Portland has the combo of good young players with potential, draft picks, and expiring deals. NY doesn’t have any draft picks to send, and their young players are not want the Hornets need. The magic and Mav’s don’t have any young players to send either, which just leaves Portland.
The Blazers can send Miller and Joel as expiring deals, plus Bayless, Rudy, and or Batum. Those are 3 young players at positions of need for the Hornets, players with the potential to be very good, and all of them on cheap rookie deals. A trade that includes Bayless, Rudy, Batum, Miller and Joel for Paul and Posey would leave the Hornets in a very good financial situation after this season. Peja, Mo Pete, Songaila, Miller, and Joel would all expire, taking almost $40 million in payroll off the books. The Hornets would only have about $30.7 million in committed salary before next years draft picks, if West doesn’t opt out, if he does than that clears another $7.5 million. Going into a new CBA this could be very good for the Hornets, but we don’t really know.
For their money, they would still be putting a decent team on the floor with a core of Collison, Bayless, Rudy, Wright, Batum, West, Aldrich, and Okafor. It won’t win a championship, but it would be fun to watch for their fans, and with some luck/good scouting in the draft they are right back into the playoff picture. Plus depending on the new CBA, they could be in a postion to pick up a good player for cheap if the NBA does what the NHL did, and force teams to get under a hard cap.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
by usmcr3049 on Jul 22, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
All I'm saying is that it's quite possible
not that it is likely or probable. If CP3 really wants to play there, and I’m New York, I make the deal now and hope I can figure out the Carmelo part next summer. Even if I strike out there, I still have Chris Paul. There’s no downside to that gamble really.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Except that Paul would be signing on for a lost year
And NY would only be guaranteed one full year with them all together.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 22, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions
not really on the last part
NY knows that Paul wants to go there and will extend there. They don’t have the same level of worry that we would on that front.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
I don't think they know that for sure
What if Amare’s knee explodes again?
Would Melo still want to come? Would Paul extend?
How is Paul going to hold up if he has to go 1-on-5 all year?
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 22, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
ofcourse NY makes the deal
But I don’t think Paul would want to resign until they got Anthony, or someone else to make the team better. I also don’t see NO taking what NY can package over what the Blazers can package.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
LA + Batum for CP3?
I’m of the opinion that if we want Paul, we will need to give up LA + Batum + filler (rudy, bayless). If thats the case, would that be good?? I want CP3 badly,, but to avoid him being traded to another interested team, we got’s to pony up and make a better offer than most on BE are admitting….
Way too much.
Plus, NO probably doesn’t want Aldridge… they’ve got David West at the 4.
Look Ma! I got a rec!
Regardless of what we say about LA
He is still much better than West, and is a similar player.
It is too much, though, you’re right.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 22, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
West could be moved after the deal, very easily
the Hornets real problem would be accepting LMA’s salary
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
right
why trade West for a higher-paid Aldridge?
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
LMA's younger, and maybe they like his upside better than Portland?
but his contract puts them into luxury tax hell, so if LMA goes it would be to another team in a 3 or 4-way blockbuster (soon to be known as a Cho-special)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Paul is specifically looking for a team
that is going to try to seriously contend. It’s not in his best interest for us to trade away our core. This might be more palatable to New Orleans, but it doesn’t make sense for Portland or Paul.
You can bet that Paul wants to only come to Portland if we have Roy, and ?two of the three of LA, Oden, & Batum.?
Paul's exact words were
“Why would I want to go to Portland if they traded Brandon and LaMarcus? I’d want to play with those guys.”
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 22, 2010 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
not at all
Paul’s reaction was simple: Why would I want to go there if they have to trade LaMarcus Aldridge or Brandon Roy to get me? I’d want to play with those players.
This was NOT a direct quote from Paul, it was a paraphrased answer from a 2nd hand source.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
the source
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-chrispaul062310
When the possibility of the Portland Trail Blazers making a bid on Paul was brought to him, a source said, Paul’s reaction was simple: Why would I want to go there if they have to trade LaMarcus Aldridge(notes) or Brandon Roy(notes) to get me? I’d want to play with those players.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
If you're NO
you prefer Oden to LMA because they already have West and Oden is both cheaper and has far more upside.
Too much wrong pieces
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jul 22, 2010 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Two points...
1) I don’t beleive it will be the Knicks if anyone. I just can’t see what they could give in return that would be anything close to as good as what the Blazers could give.
2) Batum AND Oden for Paul?!?! You have got to be kidding me. First off, CP3 isn’t THAT good. It’s not like he’s taken a team on his back to the Championships before. In relative terms he’s still just a “puzzle piece” type of a player IMHO. If he thought that he was actually better then that then he wouldn’t be pulling a Lebron and whining about the pieces around him rather then trying to step his own game up. I mean could you imagine Brandon ever whining so hard to be traded. Nope.
Don’t get me wrong, I do really like the idea of getting CP3, but honestly I’m starting to think I would be better off if we kept Batum and Oden and focused on trying to get a Tony Parker or a Devin Harris. Then we might end up having five all-star caliber players on our team rather then three.
Personally, I would hate to give up both Oden and Batum for Paul
but I would do so.
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
You're basically saying
everything I came her to. Just the value stuff; I haven’t a clue about money.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
You use it to buy things....
Oh, wait, that’s not what you mean, is it?
;)
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
my wife handles the buying things part of my life
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
Mine too
It’s for the best, as she often reminds me.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 22, 2010 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
then you better get Okafur back in that deal
or another quality big man from a 3rd team
It really comes down to how Cho feels about Greg’s future, after he’s crunched the numbers re: all the knee surgeries
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I would too
I think Wesley Matthews and Marcus Camby will do about as much as Batum and Oden next year, and Paul is a HUGE upgrade over Andre Miller, as much as I love Miller. We have to do that deal.
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
That's what I'm leaning towards as well.
My inherent optimism says Oden will be healthy and a top-3 center, but if I wasn’t a PTB fan I’d be doubtful of that. And CP3 is the surest thing you can get.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
CP3 is the best point guard in the NBA, and a top 5 player. He is a nightmare.
when you have a chance to get him for unproven players like Batum and Oden, I think you do it.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Jul 22, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
Though it is not happy-thought making.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 22, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't mortgage the farm UNLESS
You get him to commit to an extension. Paul could easily want out of here in two years, after all he’s already shown a willingness to leave New Orleans. You’d have two years to win a championship or you’d lose him.
by seasnake333 on Jul 22, 2010 10:32 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Even if it’s just two years, this gives us by far our most realistic shot at beating the Heat in the next five years.
And if we come close in the next two years
And Roy and Paul develop chemistry and Oden becomes Nasty Greg, then CP3 might want to stay on for a few more years. If we’re the top team in the west in two years, I can see Paul sticking around EASILY.
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
that's what Cavs fans have been telling themselves about LBJ, for the past 2 years
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
yeah, Lebron was playing near his hometown
and Paul wouldn’t have nearly the same connection to PDX, when it came time to decide if he wanted to sign an extension or test the market
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
He cannot sign an extension
Not allowed by CBA rules
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions
asumming he opts out before 2012-2013, what then?
I assume the Blazers will have his Bird rights (if there is such a thing after the new CBA)
It’s going to take a riverboat gambler to sign off on this deal, Paul Allen may be one of the few owners who would bite (with Cuban being the other)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
two years is worth the gamble
you hope that a couple of deep playoff runs, our rabid fanbase, and deep-pocketed owner can convince him to stay – and that there isn’t a ready-made team with max capspace out there waiting for him. Worse case, you get back some young players, picks, and a large TPE in a sign and trade.
It’s a gamble, but not an outrageous one. Better to go for it and maybe win a title than sit back and always be “one piece away”
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
CP3 isn't the only "piece" out there, just the most potentially volatile one
It’s the kind of deal that could backfire and get a GM fired, similar to how doing a 5-for-Vandeweghe was Ramsay and Inman’s last stand back in the mid 80s?
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Should have been more clear
He can sign an extension before the opt out date, he just can’t sign one now.
His current extension was signed 7/9/08 so he cannot sign another extension until 7/9/11
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
All I know is
Whatever the Blazers are gonna do, it needs to happen quick. The suspense is killing me.
NOH just hired Demps
He’s not going to trade Paul in his first two weeks on the job…..
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
It'll take him at least that long
to talk to staff and players, evaluate where things are at, strategize with Shinn, etc.
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Well it looks like the "evaluate where things are at"
has already been done in regards to Chris Paul. I can’t imagine any other topic is more pressing in that organization.
picture me rollin'
Kobe looked like this a couple years ago
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
it doesn't have to be resolved immediately
Cho isn’t going to do a quick deal either. The two teams have “exchanged names” already back in June, so the next time they talk it will reflect how their rookie GMs will adjust to the new facts on the ground (CP3 wants out, Cho probably sees some of the Blazers assets differently than KP did, etc)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
This is pretty good timing then
Because this also allows Cho to do the exact same thing. Hopefully they will both be more willing and comfortable talking to each other seeing as they’re both first time GM’s.
If it means giving up Batum, I'm not sure it's worth the risk
by DefenderOfPants on Jul 22, 2010 10:34 AM PDT reply actions
that's a moot point if Paul leaves in two years
by DefenderOfPants on Jul 22, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Still...
Batum for 2 years of Chris Paul.
You make the deal, and hope you can re-sign him.
Enough of “potential over reality”. This is Chris freakin’ Paul we’re talking about here.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 22, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
He is better then a one year rent a PG
CP3 will skip as soon as his contract is up. Then what does Portland have?
hg
Please, please let it happen....
I’ll go all Macgruber to make it happen!
(eh…ok I won’t but that’s how much I nearly want CP3 on this team!)
I know what Portland can offer
Can somebody who isn’t as lazy as me, do some research and tell me what the competition looks like? What can Dallas, Orlando, and NY offer that could top a possible Batum or Oden trade and instant salary cap relief?
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4670314/who-can-make-better-offer-for-cp3-than-mavs
by Chief Play Good Play Hard on Jul 22, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
That guy is rooting for Dallas to win Paul.
He covers the Mavs and Cowboys for ESPN. I still think Portland has the better deal. He brushes Portland off.
by parkinglotj on Jul 22, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions
he did brush us off a bit
Joel/Miller with other can absorb Paul and ONE (but probably not both) of the contracts they want to dump. So yes, we have a leg down in that regard, as Dallas could absorb both those contracts.
That said, I think Bayless/Rudy/Batum is better young/cheap talent than Beaubois and Dominique Jones
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
exactly
I posted above, but the Blazers can take back Paul and Posey, leaving Just Okafor on a long term deal for the Hornets. That team would be exciting, but might not win alot. However they would get a ton of draft picks, and if they get lucky on one, or two, they are set.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Plus, some NO beat writers
Are adamant that, talent-wise, Portland is the way to go.
That offsets a Dallas homer somewhat, right?
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 22, 2010 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Can't we take both of the contracts if we use Przybilla+Miller+Camby?
Disclaimer: everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazersedge.
No
Chris Paul = Pryzbilla + Miller. Okafor = Camby + a smidge. Posey is $6 million on top of that.
I was figuring
(11.8+7.4+7.3) * 1.25 = 33.1 Blazers
6.4+14.9+11.5 = 32.8 Hornets
And that’s before you throw in the young talent.
Disclaimer: everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazersedge.
i'm sorry I guess I didn't read your whole comment
If the team included Camby, it could take back Okafor. I missed you putting his name in there, just saw Joel and Miller somehow.
BTW I am all for trading a package of Camby, Miller, Joel, Batum, Rudy, + picks/euro’s For CP3, Okafur, and Posey. That would save NO’s salary next season, + reduce it’s finacial commitment to Okafur, (who is owed 4 more years) Okafur is overpaid, but he is a decent to good player, and as a back up 4/5 would be great behind LMA and Oden.
This is Portland’s most attractive offer from my point, I don’t see NO’s wanting Greg Oden, and I don’t see Portland wanting to give up on him yet either. This trade deal is better than anything else out there right now that NY, Dallas or Orlando could do.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
by usmcr3049 on Jul 22, 2010 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Almost . . . .
If you add Bayless to that deal, then you’ve got the best offer Portland “should” make. I don’t want to lose Bayless, but with CP3 coming back, its impossible to say that Bayless is the deal breaker. Especially with Williams on the roster. If they want Elliot Williams instead, that is even better.
Camby + Miller + Joel = cap savings
Batum + Bayless + Rudy = young, cheap talent
Paul + Posey + Okafor = the biggest contracts on the Hornets, all leaving town.
And on top of all of that, I don’t think you can find a more talented and useful group of “cap savings” than Camby, Miler, and Joel. And Monty should know that first hand. I think
Miller / Bayless / Batum / Camby / Joel is a great starting 5. Add Rudy, Thornton, West, and Collison and you may have a play-off team there!
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
trading a team their whole starting 5....that's nuts
it JUST MIGHT WORK!!
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
I don't believe so.
I haven’t check it if we use Babbit and Williams salaries in a deal. But Joel and Miller are about $15 million combined, CP3 is about 14 million or so by himself. While Rudy, Bayless, and Batum are all under $3 million. So adding Posey works, as his salary is about $6 million, but Okafor’s is $12 million or so.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Paul dictates where he goes
more than the value coming back to NO
I disagree
Paul has some pull, but NO is holding the trump card right now, (at least for the next 2 years). Whatever team trades for Paul will have to satisfy NO’s more so than Paul.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Batum? No!!
Batum stay. We gots to have our Batum. You don’t give away Scotty Pippen. Batum=championship piece. Batum no go… … me sad, me go away now…
Batum is a great roleplayer
Paul is a top 3 player in the league. They’re not even close to having the same value.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
by dan_the_man on Jul 22, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
It's hard to overstate the guy's value
There’s no way the front office gets held up over giving away Batum.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
by dan_the_man on Jul 22, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd do it for LeBron, Howard, Paul, Williams, Rose, Wall
There are others I’m forgetting as well.
And you’re not giving up Scottie Pippen, you’re giving away the POTENTIAL of a Scottie Pippen.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 22, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
uh, correct me if im wrong here
but Wall hasn’t proven ANYTHING. And Rose is still based on potential mostly. Now Rondo… he should be on that list.
by avalancheman on Jul 22, 2010 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed that Rondo should be on the list
And ahead of Rose and Wall.
Rose and Wall are there because they have equal or higher potential when compared with Batum, and play a position of greater need, and one that is much harder to fill.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 22, 2010 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions
not sure if it IS harder to fill OR of greater need
Lebron, Wade and Bosh certainly don’t think so. Championship teams only rarely feature a PG in the top 5 in the league…
by avalancheman on Jul 22, 2010 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Shh!
don’t squash the CP3 buzz with facts
Other than Isiah Thomas and the physical anomaly that was Magic Johnson, you are correct
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
For us, it is a position of greater need
I’m assuming Greg healthy, in which case we need a guy who can shoot and feed the post, or drive and kick. Why not covet Rose and Wall?
The M’eat don’t have a PG, true. But they also don’t have a center.
Championship teams only rarely feature a great PG, but they DO often feature a guy named Kobe or Jordan. Since we don’t have one of those guys, we should look for another way.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 23, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Think it basically comes down to Portland vs. Dallas
Neither the Knicks nor the Magic have enough prospects or expiring contracts.
Dallas, with the huge expiring deals of Tyson Chandler and Caron Butler, provide the most immediate cap relief. Hell, throw in DeShawn Stevenson and they can probably take Paul, Okafor and Posey off of New Orleans’s hands. But in terms of prospects, that French guard is about all they’ve got.
Portland can’t provide as much immediate cap relief — to take back Okafor they’d have to include Camby, who’s got two years left — but has much better prospects.
by Charon on Jul 22, 2010 10:40 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Just double-checked it
Chandler + Butler + Stevenson + Beauboiousesoeus = Paul + Okafor + Posey. Just can’t be done until Sept. 13 because Chandler came to the Mavs via a recent trade.
If I am NO, it has to be Oden + Batum
CP3 is the best pg in the game. And but for his knee injury it would not be close. Roy, CP3, LMA will win you 55 games almost every season.
Who's trying to win 55 games?
Roy, Batum, LMA, Oden will win you 55 games almost every season, too.
The point is to win 60+ and some nice jewelry to go with it, not to win 55 games an “compete”.
so the question is, who helps the Blazers potentially win a ring the most
a healthy Oden, or a healthy CP3?
I lean towards the big guy, but I’m predisposed that way because superstar PGs generally don’t win titles without quality big men (Auerbach/Cousy needed Russell, etc)
I also like Batum, a lot. And there’s a risk that CP3 doesn’t resign with the Blazers in 2013
If Cho can find a way to pull off the CP3 deal by involving a 3rd (or 4th) team and flipping most of his assets not named Roy-Batum-LMA-Oden-Matthews-Camby then he should beat out Pat Riley for exec of the year.
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
but it's two questions though
1) who helps win the most a healthy Oden or a healthy CP3
2) Who is more likely to be healthy – Oden or CP3 (and this is not as obvious as most might think)
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
I don't have a crystal ball
but Cho has the data and I’m sure he and Paul Allen have an opinion
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Honestly,
I think that it comes down to the Blazers and Mavs, so what do the Mavs have to offer that is better than what we can without gutting there team. Also I think the Blazers have a better window for Paul than the Mavs do, they are getting pretty old with there star over there. Our star(s) are still coming into their prime and have a window that looks much better than Dallas IMO.
I think it will come down to who Paul wants to play with, not who has the most cap relief, 14 mil might be less than what the Mavs can offer, but we can throw in young prospects with potential on the cheap, that the Mavs can’t do.
Get busy livin', or get busy dyin'. -the shawshank redemption.
ESPN is the National Enquirer of Sports
And I do not believe any story by Broussard, especially one that has “Sources Say”
For all we know his source is his 10 yr old kid.
Lets see a direct quote from Paul or NO officials
“Sources” = Let’s pump up our advertising revenue
_________________________________________
If "It's Only a Game", then why do we keep score?
I regularly give Broussard crap, but he and Screaming A Smith called the Big 3 to Miami move
While all the pundits claiming to have good inside sources (then and now, like Woj’s story about the long-term plan) whiffed on it and said LeBron would go to Chicago or re-sign in Cleveland.
What Broussards Stance was the day befoe "The Decision"
Also on his twitter account.
Did not break LeBron to Miami until late Wed night
_________________________________________
If "It's Only a Game", then why do we keep score?
I agree with that
A lot of the time their sources can be agents just trying to create hype for a player or trade and not much real info.
Of couse I realize everything I say here means nothing.
In K.P. I STILL trust.
Travis Outlaw fan from the beginning.
by llamaiguana on Jul 22, 2010 11:06 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Considering it's against NBA rules
for any player to publicly demand a trade, and considering that you know the Hornets aren’t exactly excited to publicly tell their fans “our star player wants out”, then “sources” is about all you are going to get.
Kind of like players talking about moving...
with other players while they are still under contract.
Hum…CP3 and LeBron have the same agent. Maybe CP3 can get an hour on TMZ and do his Diva thing
_________________________________________
If "It's Only a Game", then why do we keep score?
People are calling me crazy
But i just had a weird feeling when i was driving home late last night and heard on the radio that CP3 was demanding a trade. We almost nab him before the draft but it falls though and we fire our GM and then we hear nothing about CP3. We hire a GM and 24 hours later he demands a trade?? Seems like good timing, maybe a little blazer birdy is whispering into his agents ear?
- Neil
Alright, Cho
Get this done. Give the Hornets the best deal and get Paul here. Our best competition is Dallas, as I just don’t think the Magic can put together as strong a package and the Knicks have… nobody.
Batum, Bayless, Rudy & Miller
I hate to lose Batum, but the opportunity to get a player of Paul’s ability is rare and you’ve got to seize it.
And yes, the trade works on the trade machine.
Isn't that essentially
what was turned down already by NOH?
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
As I recall
We were holding Batum out of it. Maybe that goes through now that Paul’s gone public with his discontentment?
Wasn't Batum the piece that Quick reported
would be ‘painful’ to see go?
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
I think so...
Pretty sure it was Miller, Joel, Bayless, and Batum
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
NO also didn't have their back against a wall before.
Maybe that “almost” deal is looking might tasty, knowing that they have to take SOMETHING, as holding on to CP isn’t really a viable strategy anymore.
I was under the impression that
the deal was all but done when the owner in NO got cold feet about trading Paul. I imagine the same deal would work now (that one included Joel) but the owners feet have warmed considerably with this trade demand.
Here is my trade suggestion. It's a bit spendy, but straightforward and still worth it. We might also give up rights to unsigned players like Claver or more picks.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2efdan5
Other versions of this are possible and would even save Nola more money, but get them less value without LaMarcus.
This one works too.
I’d rather keep Camby over Joel.
by resurrect_ha28 on Jul 22, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Also, I think NO would want Joel for the cap relief over Camby.
by resurrect_ha28 on Jul 22, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I have no problem with that from our side
But I’ve been operating under the assumption that if it’s just the Blazers and Hornets involved, they’d want both Miller and Joel, so they can save more money at the end of the year. I assume they’ll also want Batum.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
by dan_the_man on Jul 22, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I would be thrilled
with this trade. It would be hard for me to be excited about any trade involving Batum. ANY trade.
Jaycation: Indie, Americana, Folk, Blues, Soul, Jazz, Afropop, Saturdays 3-5pm on KPSU Radio, online worldwide at www.kpsu.org
No way NOLA does this.
LMA is a huge commitment, and why would they give up Thornton?
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
If Cho gets this done this summer
does he become the fastest person ever to have a statue built in his honor?
picture me rollin'
No Paul please !
I usually argue for talent over character but I don’t want this guy.
Can you imagine watching both Roy and Paul staying in the back court to argue no calls while the other team goes five on three? No thanks.
Paul can be pretty whiny
But you don’t pass on a guy of his talent for that reason alone. If Chris Paul is on the table, and that’s a huge if, you take him. Unless you don’t want to win.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
by dan_the_man on Jul 22, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
They'd have to work out a system on who gets to stay back
But I think this particular risk is one we can take.
no cant imagine that isnt going to happen
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jul 22, 2010 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
hopefully Chris will have a little better mobility than "goldenrod"
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
NO UNLESS
I say no to any CP3 trade unless he agrees to an extention a head of time. And I would not give Oden or Batum.They can have any of Rudy,Bayless,Miller and Przybilla or them all of them. and even throw in picks and or any player we have right to over seas.
He cannot sign an extension ahead of time
He’s not far enough into his contract to be able to sign an extension, per CBA rules.
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
OK trading for Paul is all well and good
but we should really be focused on bringing in another all-star to take pressure off of Roy.
picture me rollin'
That would be Paul
Paul and Roy together would be the best backcourt in the NBA.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
WOOOOOOOSSSSHHHHH
the sound as my hand passes over my head in a very condescending manner
picture me rollin'
hands down.
definitely the best backcourt in all the NBA. No other team would be close.
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
I have no doubt
that Paul, Stoudemire and Anthony have discussed playing together. Just as I have no doubt that Wade, James and Bosh discussed the same thing.
I also have no doubt that Wade, James and Bosh thought they could all get the max and that the team would still have enough extra room to surround them with at least a couple of non-minimum salary players. That is, until it was explained that they would each have to sacrifice $2-3 million in the first year (and 8 figures each over the life of the contract) in order to achieve that dream.
Now translate that scenario to this new trio. Reality might set in really quickly once they realize that Amare cannot take less money, that the next CBA will probably see a reduction in the cap and that they will not be able to all 3 come together and still play with guys like Mike Miller or Joel Anthony or Udonis Haslem. I wonder how excited Carmelo will be if/when he learns that he must play for what half of what Stoudemire makes if he wants to play with Amare and CP3….
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 11:38 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Beyond that
I don’t see where Amare would be a huge draw. He’s no Duane Wade. As a matter of fact, he’s not even going to be the Amare of days past without Nash.
The Dude abides.
Are there rules about contracts between players?
Sure, Amare can’t take less in salary. But what if he buys a bunch of bananas from Carmelo for $10 million or so? Does the CBA plug that loophole?
that sounds racist
but I’m sure you didn’t mean it like that – so I’m slightly laughing and quietly mentioning how horrible that is that I actually had that thought. If the CBA doesn’t have that loophole plugged, it should in the new CBA…
by avalancheman on Jul 22, 2010 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions
good ol' contract law already plugs that loophole.
consideration. Any contract for some bananas in exchange for $10M would be legally invalid (unless it were actually $10M worth of bananas, of course). And were such a deal struck for the sole purpose of an end around of a legal CBA? There might even be the NLRB involved.
Pretty sure there is a "No doing anything to circumvent the CBA" clause
that covers most of these types of things.
the IRS usually gets involved re: excessive "gifts' like that, as well
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Trying to...not...get...hopes...up...
Why do they do this to us?
Then don't check new fanshot by JAWKS
by Chief Play Good Play Hard on Jul 22, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Definitely don't click
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Roy, LMA, Oden, Batum, Miller, Bayless, Rudy, Joel, Camby, Armon, Williams, Dante, Babbitt, McMillan, Blake and Outlaw
for CP3. Make it happen RiCho.
Stealth > Wealth
I swear...
Change CP3 to LeBron, and Portland to New York. That’s what this is, and it’s sad, sad, sad.
Stealth > Wealth
It’s sad to me to see so many folks are willing to sacrifice a wonderful team to chase down a shooting star. This has always been my problem with professional sports and it’s fans—the importance placed on one player over the team. In New York’s case, they at least had nothing, so pinning their hopes on LeBron was understandable; Portland is packed with talent and coming off back-to-back 50+ win seasons. There is absolutely no reason to shop half the team for one player. Maybe it brings us closer to a championship (MAYBE!!!), but do the Blazers really want to become another shallow team, it’s hopes hanging on the health and production of a few stars?
I feel like the only way the Blazers are going to beat the Miamis of the world is going to be with the amazing depth that brought them through a heartbreaking season to beat the odds and make the playoffs when so many were saying “next year”, like the act of repeating it was salve on a burn. Now that’s all been swept under the rug because Chris Paul might deign to sign with the Blazers. I guess loyalty only runs so deep.
I don’t blame y’all for wanting to strap the team to a rocket and see how high it’ll fly, but I’d prefer to see how far these guys can go on their own. We might already have a few rockets that just need a little more fuel to get to the next level. I think we do, and in due time they will explode all over this league, leaving us wondering why this conversation ever took place.
Stealth > Wealth
by 500dogs on Jul 22, 2010 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 14 recs
Rec.
Look, statistics-wise, CP3 is ideal to have on our team. But nothing in life is all about the numbers, I can honestly say that if NO was willing to trade CP3 for Batum and Oden today that I would have no problem saying “no.” Having a solid team equipped with good guys who we’ve built from the ground up (and by that I mean, drafted them and helped them get better) will always mean more to me than winning a championship with some super stars we fetched from other teams.
by thetsaiguy on Jul 22, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Plus, it saps the fun out of everything.
If Miami wins a championship, it’s like, so? I already knew that LBJ, Chris Bosh, and DWade on one team would make them the best team in the world. If we get Chris Paul, and we go far, great. But we already knew that. We already knew that putting All Star players together on one team would make them a solid team. It’s so boring and predictable and there’s no heart in it.
How much more awesome would it be to shock the world with the guys we have right now, who are technically nobodies in the league? I mean, Nic Batum, most people still don’t know who he is. Oden? He’s been declared a bust by many. Even Andre Miller, who never got out of the first round of the playoffs, or LMA, who has never been an All Star, are “nobodies.” How much greater would it be to go far with these guys?
And it’s not wishful thinking either! The best part is that we know that they can go far. Why cash all the heart and passion behind that for a lifeless team with a whole bunch of stars everyone already knew would win?
Rec
Great post.
Of couse I realize everything I say here means nothing.
In K.P. I STILL trust.
Travis Outlaw fan from the beginning.
by llamaiguana on Jul 22, 2010 12:23 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
yep
let the story play out..
Adding CP3 is not like the James Wade Bosh deal, but I want to see the guys I fell in love with attempt to get it done.
Besides, even with a CP3, I do not think the Blazers get it done without Greg. Look at the finals winners, all have a first class front line with at least one allstar type at either PF or C. Aldridge is a fringe allstar (which is still pretty darn good) and Camby is solid but a little old. Greg is still the key, his health will determine a lot.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Yeah and the L@kers rode their depth to another title this year
Oh wait…. they have no depth. They just have a disproportionate number of the top 50 players in the NBA.
Chris Paul is better than any player who competed in the Finals last month.
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
Yes.
Chris Paul is better than Kobe, in my opinion.
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
I agree
Kobe is a great great player, but he is completely overrated by most NBA fans. TOP players in the NBA right now,
1. lebron
2. CP3
3. Wade
after that there are many who could be in any order.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
CP3 is completely overrated by most NBA fans
especially on this board. Top 5 player maybe, but in that case hes number 5. Does not have Kobe’s defense, or Lebron’s or Wade’s even to add to his offensive prowess… better than Roy? Of course. But he’s too small and defensively deficient (partially just because of his position) to truly count in that discussion.
by avalancheman on Jul 22, 2010 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions
All PGs are...
seriously. They are automatically gifted the ball in their hands just about every possession and then told to do something with it. Hes a great player, but not a type of player that can elevate scrubs to championships. MJ has made a point to say he never won one without Scottie. Well, centers have. San Antonio didn’t win championships because of TP. He was very good, mind you, but I think Miller would have worked for them. CP3 is the best PG in the game, but not by much, and alongside Roy, I’d much rather have Rondo, D Will, Billups, even Devin Harris. For us to beat Miami for a title, we will need great defense, not more offense.
by avalancheman on Jul 22, 2010 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions
wow
did you forget the time he elevated David West, Tyson Chandler and an aging Peja to the #2 seed in the West?
And what did that get them?
The west was weaker then… and wins in the regular season only matter if they get you into the postseason, past that they don’t matter all that much, just help. West and Chandler are not as bad as you seem to think. They had offense… but were nowhere near title contenders. If we want the #2 seed and an exit in the second round, then by all means get CP3 and mortgage the team.
by avalancheman on Jul 22, 2010 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions
They aren’t bad, but even if we traded Oden and Batum, we’d still have basically that NO team that won 56 games and Brandon Roy. That is a force to be reckoned with.
Chris Paul is by far the best point guard in the game. If he returns to his ’07-09 form, he will be the greatest point guard of all time.
I'm still partial to Stockton
and Stockton-Malone was a pairing for the ages. CP3 you can put in that conversation, though. Chauncey is the most underrated in that conversation, and might be my favorite player, if it weren’t for the fact he now plays for the Thuggits. You need to keep two of Camby, Oden, Batum to have a realistic shot at a title right now. All three are championship-caliber role players. Trade them one of those, then give up any of the recent draft picks, Miller, Przybilla, future draft picks, Bayless, Rudy, DC, Pende… but keep two of those three! And LMA is a championship number 3 guy. Give up Camby, Batum, and Oden and I think you’re just playing second fiddle to Miami in the win tons of games during the season and lose in the conference finals to the defensively stout dept.
by avalancheman on Jul 22, 2010 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I think some people are forgetting just how good CP3 was before last season.
Time off due to injury obviously affects memory, but CP3 was by far the best point guard in the league and a top MVP contender.
Please go back and look at what Chris Paul did in the 08-09 season
his PER of 30.04 is one of the ALL-TIME great seasons, that is MJ level of production. No other PG in the NBA currently is even close to CP3 in terms of raw stats or advance stats. One season filled with injuries has really thrown some fans for a loop.
Defensively deficient? The guy averages 2.4 steals per game for his career! And is about the nastiest players to guard anyone in the NBA. His competitiveness can’t be questioned on either offense or defense. No PG in the NBA can keep quick guards in front of them, not even Rondo, who most believe is a great defender. Compare CP3’s defensive stats, to Rondo’s and they are very close. The guy is an MVP level player, no player currently in the NBA besides Lebron has the potential to be as good as CP3 is, no one else has come close to his 30.04 PER, except for Lebron and Wade. Those 3 are the top players in the NBA right now bar none. People who say otherwise are fan’s of other players and want them to be better than they are, or just don’t remember how special Paul is when healthy.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
I agree 100% with that list.
Kobe is the media darling now, but statistically he wasn’t even the best player on his team through the playoffs. As of today, those 3 players are better than Kobe. If LA never got Pao, Kobe’s legacy would be so much different than it is now. It’s funny how that works in sports.
Kobe's Legacy is still crap-ola in my book
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jul 22, 2010 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think you have anything to worry about
Cho and Allen aren’t going to sell the farm. What they’ll probably do is make the Hornets squirm and eventually extract a better-than-expected return
What if another team sneaks in and grabs CP3 ahead of Portland? Oh well, I like what we’ve got, already. And Tony Parker is on line 2
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Exactly.
I trust our FO to make a reasonable deal. I doubt Roy or LMA get traded due to their contracts’ size, and there’s a decent chance Oden would stay too. We’d lose max 4 rotation players. Not to mention, we ‘grow to love’ players really fast here. I’d miss the guys but sentimentality is not a reason to hope that your team passes up a chance to get way better.
And if we don’t get CP3, oh well, I think our team will be awesome.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
Completely disagree
Firstly, you’re seriously underestimating CP3. Secondly, players win titles. Star players. Unless BOTH LaMarcus and Greg maximize their potential in the next couple of years, we don’t have many chances to grab all-NBA type players. Letting such an opportunity pass us by would be folly.
I mean, that movie ‘Hoosiers?" That was so exciting because it’s so rare that it borders on the impossible. It might be great to have your underdog team win a title, theoretically, but if you really want to win titles, you have to grab up the best players. As many as possible.
I just don’t relate to “aw man, wouldn’t it suck to have another all-NBA player on our team? Shoot. Then we’d have the best backcourt in the league and be one of the favorites in the Western Conference! That’s no fun…”
Sounds fun to me!
rec
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jul 22, 2010 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know if anyone has posted this trade. It's getting hard to keep track
I assume NO will want to dump Okafor, and that they’ll want our big expirings, along with our youngest, cheapest talent.
We give:
Joel, Andre, Bayless, Batum and Camby
We get:
Paul, Okafor, Posey
I couldn’t do just Paul and Okafor in a way that made sense, so I added Posey and Camby. I thought that would sweeten it for NO. NO could also have any combination of Dante, Rudy and Jeff if they want. They just wouldn’t get as much immediate salary relief. As it stands, they’d save 3 million, and Paul Allen could gift them another 3 million as incentive.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
Yes
He was given an extension, not signed as a free agent
Example: a couple of years ago, Minnesota gave Garnett an extension and then immediately traded him to Boston.
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
no trade of Camby!
especially not with Batum. That would eliminate any defense whatsoever, other than Matthews (who is still a question mark) which is what made us lose against Amare Nash and J Rich.
by avalancheman on Jul 22, 2010 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Ugh.
If hes healthy and stays out of foul trouble then MAYBE.
by avalancheman on Jul 22, 2010 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions
uh, what made us lose was half our team injured and BRoy basically being a huge net negative
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
This would be a legit good trade, one of the ones that I could actually see happening.
They can have our Euros too.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
I am sick and I am tired of reading about Chris Paul on a Blazers Blog
Unfortunately, the only way the Chris Paul just is going to go away is if the Blazers get an all star caliber point guard.
I’ve been one of the few that were not afraid to stick up for Andre Miller and say he’s practically an all star and practically a hall of famer because of his incredible work ethic and leadership. All I have to say is that Shelly needs to get a deal done if he wants to earn my respect and keep the respect of all his fanboys and fangirls.
by tominhawaii on Jul 22, 2010 11:56 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree
Why mortgage the farm for a point guard who has not been healthy.
Paul averages 5 pts and 3 assists more then Miller and you will gut
the team, pay 8 million more. And Paul put up those #’s as the “main man”
on his team with less support then he will get here.
I cringe to think what happen if our front line suffers injuries after a deal like this.
They are alreaady suspect at this point as it is.
_________________________________________
If "It's Only a Game", then why do we keep score?
Cp3s motives
Win a title.
How?
Join heat or join team best poised to beat heat.
Which team needs a point guard to push them over the top?
by doomsdaymachine on Jul 22, 2010 12:06 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
You're not talking about us right?
As far as I can see, all we need is a healthy Oden to push us over the top.
Dunno, if Oden's not a factor
we still have Camby, who has a good 2-3 solid seasons left most likely. I like our chances.
the best news of the day, IMO
was that CP3 is not interested in going to L*A
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Maybe they could give up Adam Morrison and some cash for CP3.
And then I can officially stop watching the NBA.
its that simple
take yourself from being a blazer fan for a moment,, and look whats going to be the most attractive to CP…he wants to win…in order to get him might cost us 4 players…at least 2 bigs…maybe a healthy Oden gets us there..my personal opinion, the injuries with him are not over..ask any major Doctor who has worked with tall people..when they get hurt or a break they tend to go down again…and I think he will go down again..
Any combination of Joel, Andre, and any of our players drafted
I’d give up any combination of Joel, Andre, and anyone on a rookie contract not named Oden without thinking twice. Throw in Euro’s, money, or future picks as needed. That’s a no brainer for me, even considering CP3’s statements about playing in NY with Melo and Amare.
Throwing Oden into the mix is where the discussion begins IMO. I’d lean towards yes if the deal included Oden and not Batum. I ’d have a hard time trading both of them, but that might be what it takes.
Blazersedge, keeping haterade in business for years
Good-bye Joel. You were awesome.
With CP3 the Blazers have instantly the best backcourt in the NBA. No question. With CP3 Wes Mathews, Greg, LA, and Roy. The Blazers become the best challenge to the Heat in the east.
You're saying that they look like they're giving it their all. And you know why they look that way? Because they're bad, and it literally takes them the maximum physical effort to accomplish basic baseball tasks like throwing the ball from short to first. When David Eckstein throws the ball to first base, he has to wind up like a shot-putter, spin around forty-three times, and launch it at an angle 89 degrees from the horizontal. Afterwards, he undergoes an IV drip for a fortnight and he's so out of breath that he requires several months of acupuncture to regain the power of speech. For this we laud him. -Junior of Deadspin on 'scrappy' players
How about this:
Batum, Miller, Bayless, and Pryz for Paul?
Come on…that is totally solid. A hot young prospect, a near first-tier veteran PG, and widely-seen-as-promising young combo guard, and a solid veteran big man? I’d say maybe Rudy, too, but that seems over the top. I think that’s a pretty awesome package, NO gets excellent return and we get contender upgrade. Maybe throw in a younger guy too, like Babbitt, Cunningham, etc, for good measure. But if we give up Batum, NO isn’t in a position to demand a whole lot more from us.
yup do it! especially if we get posey back or okafor
id rather get rid of batum than oden
/cambyfive
Oden's not an option.
Regardless of the question marks, we can’t afford to let him go.
I doubt we’d get much in addition to Paul.
Again something that needs to be considered
Any trade (such as this one) where NOH takes back more $$$ than they send out, they go over the luxury tax threshold. Why would the Hornets both trade their franchise PG and put themselves into a position to lose significant amounts of money?
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Paul does not want to come to Portland
i heard this report from 2 different sources on both the espn and fox sports stations this morning. the report indicated that paul wants to go to the lakers, magic or knicks.
later in the report it’s mentioned that the mavs and blazers are involved in trade talks for Paul. even Broussards article does not say Portland is on the list but that they are “in the running”.
to me i think Paul wants out and would accept Portland but doesn’t want to be here. ultimately he wants to join howard in orlando or stoudemire and carmelo in new york. this means we’d be giving away alot to rent a guy for 2 seasons.
i don’t think this is a trade the blazers should make. from everything i’ve seen paul is a me first prima donna anyway and i’m certain he’ll wall on the blazers in the summer of ’12 anyway
listen to the vidoe, Portland is said to be one of the 4 teams and the lakers are not one of them.
Creator of the "Draft Darius Butler" truth train.
Jailbird is free to spread his wings (don't get banned X)
Visit my blog, The Blazing Yankee
Different sources seem to have different stories
Ken Berber from CBS Sports had a list naming Orlando, NY and the Lakers
Chris Broussard from ESPN says the list is Orlando, NY, Dallas and Portland
Fletcher Mackel, a sports anchor in New Orleans, says that a very strong league source tells him that Portland, not NY, ORL or DAL, has the pieces that NOH wants in a trade for Paul.
So, it kind of comes down to ‘who do you want to believe’….
by Storyteller on Jul 22, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
300+ comments in 5 hours!!
I love blazer fans
No no no
300+ comments in 5 hours…
…In the middle of the summer doldrums between summer league and training camp when most blogs are getting ignored days at a time.
"We Believe" - Rudy Fernandez
Man, we are slacking..
I figured we’d be at 1,000 by now. I remember watching Rudy playing for Spain before he came over and there were something like 1,200 posts in 2 hours.
i have a better idea!
if it looks like Paul is going to Dallas, we should try to get in on the trade and get Beaubois!
by DefenderOfPants on Jul 22, 2010 12:47 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Stupid Rumors.
I’ve been staying away from Trade Machine for a few years. But now I’m going back. It’s like a bad addiction that you just can’t shake.
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
by T Darkstar on Jul 22, 2010 12:59 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Allegedly this deal could be in discussion. Would be a steep price, but still result in an interesting roster/rotation and seems to be attractive to both sides.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2a9q4o7
Paul – Johnson – Mills or comparable
Roy – Bayless – Williams
Matthews – Babbitt – signed BAE player x or Cunningham
Aldridge – Camby – Cunningham
Okafor – Camby – Pendergraph
Hmm... I suppose I would do it. It's tough though..
by collectiveshane on Jul 22, 2010 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Of course it is
That’s usually the case when good trades are made.
Remember how many here on BE thought that the team gave up ‘too much’ for Camby?
Did anyone honestly think we gave up too much for Camby?
by zbrum on Jul 22, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
they did indeed
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Brandon and Nate
were heartbroken for days
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I'm still heartbroken.
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
I sure didn't
I’d have traded Blake and Outlaw for my first car
by collectiveshane on Jul 22, 2010 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Makes me cringe but keeps me curious.
Probably a fair deal then. A lot fairer than I want it to be, that’s for sure.
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Maybe Tony Parker would be cheaper?
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
THIS.
If we can get a guy like Parker or Harris without giving up Batum and Oden I feel like that is a way better move for the team. Watch us do Norsktroll’s deal and then feel screwed when Paul jumps ship in 2 years.
"Nicolas! You're the strongest boy in the world!"
No way, no way, no way, no way.
That’s gutting our team. That’s totally insane. Chris Paul is not worth that.
He could end up as the best PG since a long long time
While I agree it’s steep and I would want to keep at least one out of Oden and Batum, I don’t think we can get him for a bag of potato chips (read: only 1 starter and not many players with potential) even though that would be awesome.
When both sides scream “no way”, that might be the point where it’s fair to trade a star.
Batum or Oden plus a few other guys is no bag of potato chips.
Batum/Oden + Miller + Rudy/Bayless + Pryz is a nice package for any team, and Monty Williams of all people knows that. Give up both Rudy and Bayless, and I don’t see how any team can complain.
Your package is basically trading a pretty decent NBA starting 5 for 1 top-tier player. I mean, I think those 5 guys make a lower-tier playoff team. I just think it’s over the line for anyone to expect that for anyone else.
I like the kind of deals where a superstar is traded
and afterwards the commentators say “there was no way to get fair value for him”
I’d really like the Blazers to be on the “positive” side of one of those deals
Don’t be drunken sailors on shore leave, Paul and Rich. Make them come to you
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I would have to talk myself into that one.
Right now it would be a tough pill to swallow.
Blazersedge, keeping haterade in business for years
*shrug* I'd do it.
I’m not as high on Oden as some. I think even a healthy Oden is at best a sub-MVP caliber player, someone a notch or two below Dwight Howard. A healthy CP3 is MVP caliber; by most measures he’s been one of the top 5 players in the league since his second season in the league.
I’d rather trade away LMA than Oden of course, but it makes more sense for NOH to dump Emeka’s contract and take back a C. LMA and West would be pretty redundant.
Batum can become really really good, but any team in the league can pick up Andre Iguodala for the price of paying his contract, and that’s roughly what I consider Nic’s upside to be. Miller, Thrilla, Rudy… well, that’s what a consolidation trade looks like.
by howlingfantods on Jul 22, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Even without dealing a starter the Trail Blazers have more trade ammo than all of those teams
There is no reason to deal Oden and it might not be worth it to deal Batum.
All the Bowie comments have washed away.
Now that he’s back in the gym and soon to be back on the court, a pair of brand new GMs are left with GO in their hands and fans are battling their minds on whether CP is worth both Oden and Batum.
by Chief Play Good Play Hard on Jul 22, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Sam Bowie < David Bowie
Stealth > Wealth
by 500dogs on Jul 22, 2010 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This works. I haven't even though about if either team would do it tho.
by collectiveshane on Jul 22, 2010 1:27 PM PDT reply actions
I'd do it in a heartbeat
NO might talk themselves into it eventually.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
Why doesn't anybody mention trading our picks we have stashed in Europe?
Couldn’t the Blazers package a deal that Monty would like, since he knows those players, along with LA, Rudy and possibly Bayles or Prysbilla? I would love to see CP3 in Portland. It would shore up a hole that we actually have. Bayless isn’t really a PG and Armon Johnson will see little to no playing time cause Nate believes that rookies shouldn’t play hardly at all during their rookie season. I don’t think Mills will get re-signed and even if he did, his playing style is too different from Nate’s Eeyore like plodding offense. I hate half court basketball. It doesn’t work against the championship level teams. And even against none championship level teams i.e. the Sun’s and Rockets. We need someone who can protect the ball and feed our bigs the rock when teams double and triple team Roy. Joel Freeland is supposed to play like David Lee and Petteri Koponen should be able to draw a fair value to a team that has taken the blazers best coach. Yes, I think Monty Williams is a better coach. He can snag alot of that talent away from the blazers for CP3 and I think Paul Allen would be willing to tell Cho to make that trade so that he can finally have a championship.
well of course they could be included in any deal
but for salary purposes, they all count for $0. I think most people are focused on trying to make a deal work salary-wise. Those guys could and would be potential throw-ins to any deal.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
But wouldn't they count towards the salary cap cause we are paying them right?
Wouldn’t the meager amount of money the blazers pay them count towards evening the money difference in the CP3 Okafur deal?
we aren't paying them anything
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
My bad. I thought I heard somewhere that their salaries came from the Blazers.
I stand informed and they would definitely be great pot sweetners. I just didn’t understand why no one was mentioning them.
They count against the cap during the summer months
as a cap hold, but that drops off on the first day of the season.
And, yes, they count as $0 in a trade for purposes of matching salary.
Eh . . . I think he's overall pretty happy
He’s got a head coaching gig. His buddy is the GM. And if he loses his star PG, he’s getting back young bucks like Batum and Bayless and Oden or Randolph and Gallinari. Life is good for Monty, this is just a road bump.
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
Source: Blazers leading candidate???
updated: Thursday, July 22nd 1:15pm: Hornets source confirms that if Demps & Williams cannot convince CP3 to stay….they’ll start aggressively trying to move him. Source also says Portland has the pieces Monty and Demps covet…NOT NYC, Orlando or Dallas.
http://www.wdsu.com/offsidesblog/index.html
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
Read further down in the post
This guy’s understanding of trade rules are like a kindergartner’s understanding of international relations.
The article suggests this deal: Oden, Batum, Fernandez, Miller, Freeland and a #1(2011/2012) for Paul and Okafor
That’s too much. If one breaks it down this is a terrible trade. Fernandez, Miller, Freeland and a #1 for Okafor? Brutal. Oden and Batum for Paul.? Not as bad but no thanks. So how does it become appealing when combined. Two negatives dont equal a positive….right?
by SerenityNow! on Jul 22, 2010 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Oden AND Batum is a no-go.
That’s not worth it under any circumstances.
Whatever the deal, James Posey cannot play in Portland.
Nate has a no headband rule. Sorry Posey.
Hello, my name is J Mo
Then Posey will have to learn to play without his head
No way a Paul gets done without Posey’s contract getting dumped on us.
Probably gonna have to eat Okafur’s too. Yuk. You though Matthews had a bad contract.
Keep Portland Weird.
Then Posey will have to learn to play without his head
No way a Paul gets done without Posey’s contract getting dumped on us.
Probably gonna have to eat Okafur’s too. Yuk. You thought Matthews had a bad contract.
Keep Portland Weird.
The Blazers need to change their logo to an ouroboros
this will never end
"We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude. We forge our tradition in the spirit of our ancestors. You have our gratitude." - Rich Cho
by Sexual Tyrannosaurus on Jul 22, 2010 1:48 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Or this
Damn the Blazers. Damn them to hell. - 'The Sports Guy' Bill Simmons
by doublezeroduck on Jul 23, 2010 12:18 AM PDT up reply actions
This works
Posey, Paul, Okafor for Batum, Camby, Bayless, Miller, Pryz
Is it to much to ask that we build a championship roster and stay below the luxury tax...
You would have to add a couple future #1"s (atleast). But even if that was a requirement, I'd do it. Especially when PA can just buy #1's whenever he wants.
by SerenityNow! on Jul 22, 2010 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
You could also include our current #1 Elliot
Is it to much to ask that we build a championship roster and stay below the luxury tax...
And Rudy
Because he wants out anyway and we don’t want him here.
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
Camby >>>>> Okafor
and Batum > Posey already… Posey is AGING.
by avalancheman on Jul 22, 2010 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions
okay...
you have a solid point, although the contract is >>>>>. Its more like Camby >>> Okafor this year and next will be >>, but giving up Camby plus Batum is mortgaging our shot at a title NOW for a small chance at a dynasty later. With this roster we have a shot at a title this year and depending on what Miami adds in next year a shot then too (albeit greatly reduced from this year)… Greg has to be healthy and only slightly foul-prone, but its a shot nonetheless. Add in CP3, you still need to have a second center/ low post PF of decent quality on the roster, and Okafor WOULD fit that requirement, but wheres the defense on the wing going to play in? Posey is not what he once was, and we would need a second player to add to Wes Matthews on that end. DC is not it, at least not yet.
by avalancheman on Jul 22, 2010 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Ok, there are over 415 comments now.
Is there any consensus yet on what the best trade proposal would be? One that is actually a fair trade for both teams and one that puts us ahead of the other 3 teams without giving up too much?
"Nicolas! You're the strongest boy in the world!"
No
Our offer will have to include either Batum, Oden, or both, plus Miller/Bayless/Rudy but it’s all speculation at this point.
Some people think we can’t give up Oden, others think we can. Personally, I think we should only include him as a last resort, because he’s one of the leaders in PER when healthy.
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
I would either Batum or Oden, but both? That's too much.
I feel torn on Oden. On one side, if he can stay healthy he’ll be one of the most dominant big men in the game and can lead us to a championship. If he gets hurt again, he’ll officially be a bust and will have no trade value at that point. Tough call.
"Nicolas! You're the strongest boy in the world!"
I agree
There is as much risk keeping him as trading him. None of us know the future. A lot of centers are hurt early in their careers. I think Camby spent a lot of time on the IR when he was young. Oden may not be a reliable player for a few more years.
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
Does it really have to be a totally fair trade?
The Hornets are dealing from a position of weakness here. They are trying to get ANY value they can for Paul as opposed to letting him go for nothing. All we need to offer is a package (a better package than the other teams in contention) that they can justify to their fans that they got something back
they've got 2 full years to trade him before he walks
they are hardly in a position of weakness at this point
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Thats two years for him to mope around
And create problems by demanding a trade. Just because he has time left on his contract doesn’t mean that he’s not going to become somewhat of a cancer if they don’t trade him.
you know how this works (at least in Portland)
the media and the fans get whipped up once they hear that CP3 wants out
before you know it, there’s a local radio station running a “CP3 held hostage” daily count, while the other radio station is cracking back re: Paul’s parentage at every opportunity
The Hornet’s front office is clutching onto the rim of the PR volcano and Chris is stomping on their fingers
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
No, it just has to be better then anyone else's offer.
We overpaid for Matthews, but we made it so the Jazz wouldn’t match.
This is essentially the same thing. If we want Paul we may have to overpay so that the Knicks, or Orlando, or Dallas don’t swoop in with something better.
If Joel and Andre are enough then we are golden. But its gonna be a lot more complicated than that.
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
CP3 will be my personal TiH's Miller
I can’t stand his theatrics on the court.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
Why trade Oden, who had a higher PER than Paul
Both are seldom injured, so that’s a wash. If Greg can be GREG, we don’t need to trade away half our talent.
That being said I’d do a Batum+Talent/Euros/Money/Picks
Unelss we come out of it with a Go/Roy/Paul trio there’s no point imo.
Bat88m
Because New Orleans will ask "why trade Paul, who is the best PG in the game"
I don’t like it, but I could very well see it. And I do like Okafor’s durability, age (turning 28 before the season) and ability to play both big men positions on both ends of the court similar to Camby.
Paul back on the block huh?
I would say if this were to happen, the Trail Blazers cannot trade these core players: Aldridge, Roy, or possibly Batum, I mean I can live without Batum if we’re at least getting a SF in return, I just feel however, Batum has potential to really be somebody in the NBA. I say priority first, ship Rudy, who obviously doesn’t want to be a team player, he wants to be a star, but he can’t so he blames the coaches for not understanding him.
I think the best way to do this is go to N.O., see what their looking for, probably cap space, it’ll probably involve a three-way-deal, other than that if it’s just straight up, I’d say Rudy, ’Dre, Joel, first round pick, and give European rights away. But I understand, CAP space is probably their first priority when dealing Paul, so a third team is mostly necessary.
Hopefully, Chota Boy can make it happen.
The Perfect Plan™
You know how the Hornets owner wants out, and that’s clouding the future of the franchise? You know how Paul Allen has more money than he can spend in his lifetime?
Paul Allen buys the Hornets. The Hornets basically become like the Blazers JV squad. We bring CP3 over, maybe Okafor on the bench. Clean house over there and bring all our stashed Euro picks over for real NBA experience.
by superfly05 on Jul 22, 2010 2:34 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Sounds like a plan. Though there might be something in the league rules that prevents an owner from having two teams.
I might be wrong though. But I don’t think I’ve ever seen that in any major sports league.
its got to be against the rules
at the very least, the sale would never get approved by the other owners/board of governers
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
it's against the rules.
Lacob’s having to divest his interest in the Celts now that he’s purchased the Warriors.
by howlingfantods on Jul 22, 2010 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Yea I'm pretty sure that I've read somewhere that owners can't do that.
"What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. May God have mercy on your soul."
The Perfect Plan II™
Paul Allen gifts his buddy Bert Kolde enough money to buy the Hornets*, since he’s always hanging around, and rumor has it thinks he knows a thing or two about running a franchise.
How awesome is that, to be able to play fantasy basketball with your childhood buddy, but with real NBA teams!
*on the condition that the Hornets trade CP3 to the Blazers.
Come See the Future Championship Blazers in Action!
This year see as new players X, Y and Z come into their own in the league, and become almost ready for their move up to Portland, while players M, N, O, and P get their start!
by avalancheman on Jul 22, 2010 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Brilliant!
What would the Blazers minor league team be called?
New Orleans Fail Blazers?
No, they’re prospects.
I got it!
Relocate them to New Haven, CT and call them the Yale Blazers.
The uniforms would be awesome.
by Mike Burchett on Jul 22, 2010 9:40 PM PDT up reply actions
How much bargaining room have the Hornets lost now that Paul has demanded a trade?
I say we low-ball them to start.
"Nicolas! You're the strongest boy in the world!"
NBA Trade Machine
Yeah I’m addicted officially.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
BLAZERS GET:
PG Chris Paul
C Emeka Okafor
SG Marcus Thornton
HORNETS GET:
C Eddy Curry (expiring contract)
C Joel Pryzbilla (expiring contract)
PG Andre Miller (expiring contract)
C Greg Oden
SF Nic Batum
SG Rudy Fernandez
KNICKS GET:
SG/SF James Posey
NBATR SAYS:
- Blazers +6 wins
- Hornets -8 wins
- Knicks +1 win
WHY NEW YORK DOES IT:
They finally get rid of Eddy Curry, a cancer for the team as well as the team’s payroll, and add a valuable two-position role player who can back up Azubuike at shooting guard. I also feel like Posey would thrive in D’Antoni’s run-and-gun offense.
WHY NEW ORLEANS DOES IT:
Salary dump. They clear out all their bad contracts and basically start over from scratch. Their starting five is Collison/Rudy/Batum/West/Oden, and if everybody plays to their potential that’s a cheap, solid core.
WHY PORTLAND DOES IT:
Chris Paul, Brandon Roy, Wesley Matthews, LaMarcus Aldridge, Emeka Okafor. Wow. You’ve got all the scoring you could ever want with Paul and Roy, with Aldridge as a solid #3 option. You’ve got solid defense with Roy and Wesley Matthews. You suddenly have a young big man in the middle (Okafor) who plays 82 games per season and who, last year, despite an unhappy season with the Hornets, posted PER36 numbers of 13 points, 11 rebounds, and 2 blocks, and who has lottery pick pedigree and could potentially thrive on the right team (like these hypothetical Blazers, for instance!). And coming off the bench, you’ve got a solid slash/kicker backing CP3 in Bayless, a better/happier/lower-paid version of Rudy in Marcus Thornton, Camby to back up Okafor when needed, and then whatever we can get out of Babbitt/Dante/Pendy/Armon/Elliot.
Make this happen Rich.
Not a chance in hell...
This is terrible for both the blazers and the knicks. We cannot I repeat CANNOT trade both Batum and Oden. And why would the Knicks finally trade Curry now that his contract is expiring only for James Posey, who still has a few years left of mediocre basketball ahead of him at not a cheap price. I’ve seen much better options out there.
by MusicCityBlazer on Jul 22, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Because the Knicks have no depth at wing
Look at their depth chart. Do they have ANYONE at wing besides Azubuike? No. And although Posey’s old he’s far from worthless, and in D’Antoni’s system he can do everything that he does best.
Terrible for us? First off, there’s pretty solid proof to the contrary; NBATR has us improving by 6 wins next year and the Hornets worsening by 8 wins. And also…yes, I would rather have the guaranteed 82 games, 13-14 points, 10-11 rebounds, and 2 blocks that Okafor will constantly provide over the slim chance that Oden might eventually be better than that. And with Wesley Matthews in tow, do we really need Batum? Look at the PER36 numbers for WM and NB’s rookie years; are they really all that different?
In actuality, yeah this trade is probably too much, if only for the fact that Paul has basically demanded a trade and we won’t have to give up this much anyway.
I would dissagree
Plugging in an aging Posey into D’Antoni’s run and gun offense doesn’t seem like an incredible fit. Especially seeing as he shot an astounding .365 from the field last year. Plus SF is pretty packed, Posey is not an upgrade over Chandler, Azubuike or Gallinari. I’ve never been big on Okafor, he’s an undersized, offensively challenged C who is set to make a crap load of money. I’d rather stick with our roster than give up Batum and Oden. Even if it means losing out on Paul. Far too steep a price.
by MusicCityBlazer on Jul 22, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
the NBATR is the furthest from solid prrof you can get
Anyway, it’s risky, but if we’re going to trade Batum AND Oden (which I’m mostly but not quite sold on) we don’t need to involve NY (and they wouldn’t do this). NY is more likely to do what the Warriors did last year: grab some D-Leaguers and undrafted guys, and see who sticks.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
you had me until this line:
You’ve got solid defense with Roy and Wesley Matthew
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
way too much to give up....
wesley matthews is not a SF
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Would you rather trade away Batum or Oden?
With Oden, he has a much higher ceiling, but what are the odds he can put together a complete season? I sometimes wonder if Blazers fans are too optimistic toward Greg’s future.
Anyway, this is the best trade scenario I can come up with. It’s probably already been posted above, but whatever:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=26a92xl
"Nicolas! You're the strongest boy in the world!"
Would need a slight tweak
The Hornets would be too overloaded at guard if they made that trade; finding minutes for Collison AND Andre AND Bayless at PG, and then Thornton AND Rudy AND Julian Wright at SG? Seems like a clusterf**k. So what not add this little wrinkle?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=27s3j2l
Seems better if you ask me; the Hornets get a solid young wing to team with Collison/Thornton/West/Oden, and the Pacers get their PG of the future (ironically, the one they gave up on draft day 2008).
I'd rather give up Oden
Simply because I have gotten to the point where any positive game he ever plays for us in the future is gravy. I have no expectations of him. I’m not angry. I don’t blame him. Some people just get injured a lot, and it’s a darned shame.
Batum has the possibility, however, of one day developing into a really good player, maybe almost as good as a guy like Chris Paul. maybe.
Oddly enough, with a point guard like Chris Paul,
Greg Oden could be better than Chris Paul. Chandler x 10.
Doesn't everyone here always say
“We don’t need Oden to reach his full potential, we just need him to stay healthy and be a defensive presence in the middle”?
And if so…what’s the matter with Okafor? Dude has lottery pedigree (second overall in 2005), and when healthy and happy is good for 13-14 points, 10-11 rebounds, 2 blocks per game. He also plays 82 games per year and is 28 years old. And plus, if we’re not trading Oden for Chris Paul, then it’s safe to say that we’re never ever ever trading him for anyone, and that we’ll be banking our entire future on Oden staying healthy when there’s already a ton of evidence that he cannot handle the grind of an 82-game NBA schedule. In short: if giving up Oden means getting Chris Paul, I say do it.
Okafor isnt nearly the player Greg is now, when healthy
OJ Mayo is the Blazers' PG of the Future
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jul 22, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
What had been a little CP3 campfire is now a full blown mega forest fire. Thanks Broussard et al.
by SerenityNow! on Jul 22, 2010 3:15 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd for the proper use of et al..
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Sorry, in this case, the demands will work. New Orleans will get nothing if they wait 2 years.
teams will offer less and less as time passes, because the rental time on CP3 is 2 years max.
by BRoyInThe4th on Jul 22, 2010 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Canzano on his radio show
said he just got off the phone with Larry Miller, who told him:
- he (Miller) has good relationship with Paul
- Jordan brand did a lot of work with athletes like Paul
- knows his mom, dad, brother, etc.
- Miller: “he and his people have a decision to make, and they’re going to make the best decision for Chris”
This is paraphrased by me as I listened, but I tried to capture the important parts. Not much there, but I typed it up anywas as JC was teasing it for awhile and I prepare thinking it was gonna be bigger
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
by douglast on Jul 22, 2010 3:23 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, Larry has been driving the bus re: CP3
For those who thought that when KP was gone the interest would die down? Nuh-uh
And now Miller and Allen have hired a GM who’s a proven deal-maker and can identify what assets the other NBA teams want, then put complex 3 and 4-way proposals together at the drop of a hat?
Sniff sniff, is that smoke I smell?
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Don't forget he is all his knee research
Is it to much to ask that we build a championship roster and stay below the luxury tax...
EVERYBODY.PANIC.
OJ Mayo is the Blazers' PG of the Future
by GreatOden'sRaven on Jul 22, 2010 3:29 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Tramampoline! Trombopoline!
Praying to the small market gods
by eets on Jul 22, 2010 3:30 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Since now is the time to make trade proposals: 3 team trade between the Sixers, Blazers, and Hornets (Rich Cho Inspiration in the waiting)
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2bubo4x
(Include Babbit to Philadelphia)
Because now is the time to actually make a legitimate chris paul trade here is one idea that came to me first, give it a gander (smaller pieces are interchangeable ex. first round picks, money, babbit etc.).
Portland Gets Chris Paul and Okafor’s Contract
Portland Sends out: Andre Miller’s Expiring, Joel’s Expiring, Rudy Fernandez, JBayless, Marcus Camby, and Luke Babbit, first round pick
Philadelphia Gets: Andre Miller (whom they still like), Marcus Camby,, Marcus Thornton, and Luke Babbit
Philadelphia Sends out: Andre Iguodala, Jason Kapono, Speights
New Orleans Gets: Iguodala, Rudy Fernandez, Speights, Expring Pryz, Bayless, Expiring Kapono, Blazer First round pick
New Orelans Sends out: Okafor, Paul, and Thornton
Portland Roster
PG: CP3 / Johnson / Mills
SG: Roy / Mathews / Williams
SF: Batum / Mathews / Dante
PF: Aldridge / Okafor / Dante / Pendy
C: Oden / Okafor /
New Orleans Starting Roster:
PG: Darren Collison / JayBay
SG: Andre Iggs / Rudy
SF: Peja / Posey / Iggs
PF: David West
C: Speights / Pryzbilla
Philadelphia:
PG: Miller / Williams
SG: Thornton / Green
SF: Nocioni / Babbitt
PF: Elton Brand
C: Camby / Hawes
New Orleans Gets an All Star, rid of their worst contract, young talent, starting center, 13 plus million in expiring contracts
Portland Gets Paul and insurance at center (pricey)
Philadelphia: Gets back a fan favorite, a starting center, a young talented inexpensive shooting guard, a small forward who is a mid first round pick, no contract over 2 years
We would need to wait another 15 or so days to make the trade. Philly is the piece who may not be as interested (can we sweeten their pot?), maybe some of Paul’s dinero? Hollinger has them increasing by one win (but what does that really mean?).
Now tear my proposal apart!
Now back to Chem 108!
by BatumShakalaka88 on Jul 22, 2010 3:31 PM PDT reply actions
Doesn't make sense for Philly. Camby and MIller are too old and Camby has a big contract.
They have Evan Turner, they don’t need Marcus Thorton.
by BRoyInThe4th on Jul 22, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
No Sense For Philly
They would play Turner at the 3. What else are they going to do with Iggy? He is the same size as Turner, could not Turner then play the three? Maybe then instead of Babbit we trade them Williams, How else could we make Philadelphia happy?
I see a three team trade as the best way to keep our top four players, fulfilling two teams needs.
I do not think Philly will think miller is too old, if anyone they can appreciate his durability.
They would do it in a heartbeat if they could drop Brand’s contract on someone.
In any case just an idea, I would love to explore our options. Likelihood is that a trade does not happen but in the even that it does, well bragging rights to whomever comes the closest to the actually trade.
by BatumShakalaka88 on Jul 22, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
anyone know what time the flight gets in and the airline?
I wanna’ make a sign
wake me in 2011
whatever
I’m going to root for the Blazers whatever happens, but man this is getting crazy…
Geriatric Dunk Squad!
1/4/10 - Juwan Howard dunks on Chris Kaman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTkOqDgLb6s
3/7/10 - Andre Miller Tomahawk jams on the Denver Nuggets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-JVgm7F1QA
4/12/10 - Marcus Camby drops 30 and 13 on OKC to cement 50 wins. http://www.nba.com/blazers/media/camby_chant_041310.mp3
by Eat Politicians on Jul 22, 2010 3:40 PM PDT reply actions
People....
We are not going to trade LaMarcus….even for CP3.
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
because the hornets dont want LMA
they have a pretty good power forward
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt
by thomasikehara on Jul 22, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, the LMA contract
is largely seen as based on his potential still. He’s getting All-Star pay, but he hasn’t gotten to that point yet. Lots of people out there think we over-paid. Last thing N.O. wants is big, risky contracts. I think in all of this, Roy & LMA are very solidly NOT part of the package. The hardest question for the Blazers will be when N.O. says “we have a pretty good offer from Cuban. The only way you can beat them is to give us both Batum and Oden in the package.”
LMA could be dealt to a 3rd team that has capspace
who could then trade an EC and/or young talent to the Hornets
Toronto might be an interesting partner. They just lost Bosh so LMA might intrigue them, and they have a couple of ECs (Evans/Banks) to throw into the pot
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Here's a 3-way idea that involves the Raptors
I’d be willing to sweeten the Hornets side with several of the Blazers young players, like Babbitt, Williams, Claver, etc. Toronto gets LMA and Rudy, NO gets beaucoup ECs and Derozan. The Blazers keep Oden and Batum and add Okafur and Dorsey to backfill their frontcourt positions with a banger
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 22, 2010 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
rec for a good, unique trade (that I would pull the trigger on), and also 'cho machine'
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
Wow, yes please!
We get to keep Batum and Oden, plus NO would probably cut Pendy and we’d get him back… I love it. Five stars and two thumbs up.
CKTK: A music blog. We write about what we want to write about.
#14
He isn't going to be traded
Meanwhile, the Hornets have scheduled a face-to-face sitdown with Paul for Monday in New Orleans, sources with knowledge of the meeting told ESPN.com’s Marc Stein.
The Hornets, the sources said, will be represented by team president Hugh Weber, general manager Dell Demps and coach Monty Williams, with the hope that Paul — once he has his first extended conversation with the new GM and coach — will give the Hornets’ new basketball decision-makers an opportunity to sell him on their plan to improve the roster.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5401230
They will defuse this situation, even if its just for a little while and keep him in NO. Maybe a deadline trade is more realistic.
what are they going to tell him?
we’re going to flip Okafor, Peja, and Posey for a couple all-stars to play with you! We have some trades lined up in the trade machine already! Teams like big contracts right?
that they spend money in NO
but that it was spent poorly. Now that the GM that spent it poorly and had a bad relationship with CP3 is gone, they can start creating a team that is built around CP3. They brought in the Spurs assistant, so they will use his skill set to show he will do a better job than was done in the past. besides, M. Williams is going to do everything to convince him to stay…and as we all know…M. Williams is a pretty nice and persuasive guy…I could see him getting the job done at least to keep him on the team for season start.
Yes, but...
The big issue is that Paul wants to win NOW. He wants the team to rebuild quickly and as long as it is hamstrung by bad contracts that is a very difficult thing to do. They have very very few attractive tradeable pieces. Plus, bringing in a new GM and Coach doesn’t change the fact that their owner has a history of being super-cheap.
they are going to sell them on their committment to winning by pointing to the free agent resigning of Aaron Gray?
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
This is the way I see it.
CP3
for
Andre Miller
Joel Pryzbilla
Rudy Fernandez
Nicolas Batum
This gives NO more expirings they need to either make moves at the trade deadline or relieve their capspace. That’s $14M. They’ll already have some expirings in Peja Stojakovic and Darius Sangaila which is s combined $19M! Not to forget Marcus Thornton isn’t signed beyond 10-11 which is for ~$760K
They’d have $34M in capspace next summer. Paired with a good young roster to build around
Darren Collison
Rudy/Marcus Thornton
Nicolas Batum/James Posey/Julian Wright/Quincy Pondexter
David West
Emeka Okafor
This makes me believe that, if they have to trade Paul, they will trade him with Emeka. Just so they can really start to rebuild.
Being a Blazer fan is not exactly healthy.
Also Euro players
Claver, Freeland, Koponen which are a combined ~$3M
And their rights can be renounced plus their salaries don’t hurt their capspace going into the season. Incentive?
Being a Blazer fan is not exactly healthy.
And Bayless if they want him.
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
They'll get much better offers
from other teams. If that’s all that POR wants to send, they might as well admit right now that they won’t have Paul at PG.
Only team on that list that can give more than that is Orlando.
But their only assets they can offer expirings, really. Sometimes, young players are more valuable than just exprings. That’s a little bit of crazy talk but look at the FAs for next summer:
The ones worth mentioning:
Tim Duncan (ETO)
Tony Parker
Zach Randolph
Marc Gasol (Restricted)
Yao Ming
Carmelo Anthony (ETO)
Joakim Noah (Restricted)
Jamal Crawford
Al Horford (Restricted)
$34M is enough to sign atleast 2 of these players. More depending on what happens with the CBA. But then again does the what happens to the salary cap? Does $34M become less valuable, Idk.
Being a Blazer fan is not exactly healthy.
according to primetime via a hornets blog with sources
portland has pieces that monty williams and the new GM covet
if the new gm cant convince cp3 to calm down, then the team will agressivly look to trade him.
proposed trade (which i am no too sure about)
cp3 and okafor
for
miller, rudy, batum, oden, 1st round pick, joel freeland
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt
link
please post a link…I want to believe it but can’t without some sort of “proof”
i just heard it on 1080
i will try to find a link
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt
by thomasikehara on Jul 22, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
From some guy named Fletcher Mackel (a hornets blogger)
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
http://offsideswithfletcher.wordpress.com/
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
the link's been posted at least twice here on BE today
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Take Oden out, and it's a done deal. If we were to trade Oden, big IF, Batum would have to be taken out.
by BRoyInThe4th on Jul 22, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I could not fathom trading Oden.
It’s just really stings thinking about it.
Being a Blazer fan is not exactly healthy.
we should start to smear batum to worsen his trade value
so the hornets wont want him.
then praise rudy’s every move to increase his value
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt
I'll join the bandwagon, thomas.
Even if it means changing my brilliant screen name… (Sigh)
Batum’s got a gimpy shoulder and he’s a skinny Frenchman that will run at the first sign of adversity.
How’s that?
Posterizing Pau since 2008...
yeah
batum sux
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt
by thomasikehara on Jul 22, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Start a fanpost smear campaign.
How bout “Brian Scalabrine is the Nicolas Batum of America”?
Posterizing Pau since 2008...
nicolas batum is the brian scalabrine of france
and his ceiling is my grandma
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt
by thomasikehara on Jul 22, 2010 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Nicolas Batum is the poor-man's Jared Dudley.
And I mean REALLY poor…..
Posterizing Pau since 2008...
and pendergraph is a shaq-bill russell hybrid
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt
by thomasikehara on Jul 22, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Monty won't be fooled
he knows the difference between Batum and Rudy, personally
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
monty isnt the GM
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt
by thomasikehara on Jul 22, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
he and Demp are close from their Spur's days
and I’m sure Williams will have plenty of input, especially re: Blazer players
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
here is it
this one
PDX:
in: CP3
out: Miller, Nic, JB, Rudy, Pryz
NO
in: Miller, Nic, JB, Pryz
out: CP3, Okafor, Posey
NJ
in: Okafor, Rudy
out: cap space
We use NJs cap to take Okafor off their hands, and we sweeten the pot with Rudy for their troubles, while getting a great D 4/5 to pair with the O minded Lopez.
NO gets out of both Okafor and Poseys contracts and gets youth, imediate cap relief and future expirings for CP3s. Throw in a few picks and some $$ as lube and we can have a go.
Maybe grab Ross as a stop gap SF, it works either way.
Bayless and Roy= Fire and Ice (TM)
Spread the word
saw that on PSD as a posters idea...
could work but is NO getting enough?
POR-NO-NJ
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2adl4n9
POR-Lee starts at 3, Okafor is really a 4.
NJ- Favors isn’t ready to start yet.
Throw in picks where necessary.
he was a top 5 pick
he would start
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt
by thomasikehara on Jul 22, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Why wouldn't this just be two seperate trades?
And why would we trade both Aldridge and Rudy for Lee? LMA may not be the beast everyone was hoping for, but I don’t see any reason to basically give him to the Nets.
we would be getting paul
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt
by thomasikehara on Jul 22, 2010 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions
wait, i see your point
that would be trading LMA and rudy for lee, as that would have nothing to do with the paul trade
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt
by thomasikehara on Jul 22, 2010 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Trader Bob would have gotten this done already.
Just sayin . . .
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
whoa
by birthday’s in 4 days…..that indicates to me that we will trade for cp3 in 4 days
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt
I like your way of thinking.
However, my birthday’s in 21 days, which indicates we will trade for him then. Want to compromise and go with the Aug 4th?
"Nicolas! You're the strongest boy in the world!"
lets compromise
and do the trade today
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt
by thomasikehara on Jul 22, 2010 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
wait
cp3 is meeting with the hornets on my birthday
think about it
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt
by thomasikehara on Jul 22, 2010 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Get Paul lose Oden
I don’t think NO will be interested in Camby he’s older and has 2 years left on his contract, I think to get Paul we will have to give up Oden doing so should mean that we don’t have to give up Batum. I think Portland has the best chance of getting Paul because of the quality of our pieces and the ablity to absorb Okafor’s contract. I think the 5 players who will be involved in any trade we NO are Oden, Pryz, and Miller from Portland and Okafor and Paul from NO that trade alone works although I’d expect Rudy to be thrown in on the Portland side. I’m no fan of trading for Paul and would rather we didn’t do it but Okafor isn’t chopped liver he’s overpaid but he is a solid post player 13 pts and 10 reb over his career.
I fail to understand how
anyone is against acquiring CP3, who is obviously one of the best players in the league. He’s at least Brandon good.
But to couple it with “I wouldn’t mind getting Okafor” is really the interesting part. I assume you’ve seen both players play? You’re not by chance mixing them up in your head or anything?
I really really like CP3
But Batum has carved out a spot in my heart. I think we’d have to give him up but I don’t want to. I dream about his chase-down blocks, I mean, what’s cooler?
The 2012-13 NBA season: a dynasty begins.
I'm just saying
that’s a tough pill to swallow. I’m banking on Batum being a really good player. I guess when you start reaching the level the Blazers are sacrifices have to be made to get to the top. I would take Paul without question…but with a Batum vigil.
The 2012-13 NBA season: a dynasty begins.
by OVERTIME on Jul 22, 2010 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
trade oden in the deal
sign oden next offseason
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt
Oden will be a RFA unless extended this year.
We won’t have enough money or any (depending on the deal) next summer to acquire him.
Being a Blazer fan is not exactly healthy.
we could offer him a 5 year 34 million dollars
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt
by thomasikehara on Jul 22, 2010 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions
That's if the MLE remains apart of the CBA and if the salary cap projection allows the numbers work out that way.
Although, I would love for him get a deal like that will us, it’s 1) a cheaper per year deal that his current salary and 2) I’m sure NO matches or 3) another team offers more. That’s mainly because I’m confident that Oden will be playing pretty amazing basketball this next year.
Being a Blazer fan is not exactly healthy.
I don't think a team can use a MLE two years in a row
so it wouldn’t work either way thanks to Matthews. (unless i’m wrong, which could very well be)
by Junk Drawer Bandit on Jul 22, 2010 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions
i think you're thinking of the bi-annual exception
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt
by thomasikehara on Jul 22, 2010 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions
ahhh
yeah the “bi-anuual” part makes me think you are correct
by Junk Drawer Bandit on Jul 22, 2010 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Greg's agent will be clicking his heels by this time next yr
if he gets GO the full MLE
Posterizing Pau since 2008...
Greg is worth significantly more than the MLE even now, coming off a season ending injury.
by atomiccafe on Jul 22, 2010 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
rec
Outlaw got 35 million. You really think Greg is worth less than Outlaw?
by avalancheman on Jul 22, 2010 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions
i'm with you.
didn’t sam boiwe have three major injuries? And we kept him way too long of course.
Does any one think that Joels' contract becoming insurance covered give more incentive into trading with us?
I do. Is it enough to make us worth trading with?
Being a Blazer fan is not exactly healthy.
by dpnim on Jul 22, 2010 6:19 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
and
The very real opportunity for Rudy’s contract being bought by The Greek team that wants him, it’s a nice package of cash and cap savings.
I agree but the problem with that is that for any team Rudy is worth more than just having his contract being bought out
So it’s beneficial to Rudy and NO to let him play and start there. His talent and cost are a very good ratio. Low risk, high reward.
Being a Blazer fan is not exactly healthy.
I'd really hate to do this trade but
With Matthews coming in, I can kind of let Nic go but not Oden.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=26r2n6g
Cp3+Okafor for Rudy, Nic, Andre, Joel and Marcus.
I really hate the idea of extending Marcus then trading him but I just can’t let Oden go. You could even keep Nic to make the deal work but I think they need the talent. This is probably not interesting for the but I’ll admit this is a one sided trade scenario.
Being a Blazer fan is not exactly healthy.
three way proposal
although not sure if orlando does it
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2csd3bd
thought expirings, thought about orlando wanting west...
so maybe, just maybe.
by avalancheman on Jul 22, 2010 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha... -24 wins for the Hornets!
CKTK: A music blog. We write about what we want to write about.
#14
*shrugs*
they also got a ton of expiring contracts. That amount of space could make them a player in free agency. For us, it could mean we could re-sign Przybilla or not, have Gortat (who is no slouch, and a personal favorite) who is not too expensive, get rid of Rudy, get CP3 and only really lose Bayless and the extra potential Greg brings over Marcin. West plus Okafor gives Orlando one helluva frontcourt in exchange for Pietrus, Bass, and a scrub? They might do it. The real question is if our front office would sign off, or if someone could outbid us giving Greg for CP3.
by avalancheman on Jul 22, 2010 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I just like the idea of Orlando as a trading partner I guess
West and Okafor could both help Orlando out more than Gortat currently does because Howard takes so much time at C. Meanwhile, Gortat would make a very good backup to Greg at C, and you could have Camby playing backup PF mostly. I dunno, when I was interested in Gortat seriously was before we got Camby. A Center without a lot of injuries? What’s that?
by avalancheman on Jul 22, 2010 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I willl be excited about CP3 after he arrives IF we don't gut the team. And by gut the team that means
getting rid of players I like. Screw trade value and that crap. If Oden or Batum goes I will be mightily pissed. If Roy goes I will outraged and question the sanity of the Blazers front office. I guess I’m not all about a championship. I just like to watch who I like to watch. I have no emotional investment in the career of CP3. he’s a great player, but he means zip to me.
I know, but the fact that people would offer it up as a serious option drives me nuts.
I root for a team, made up of players I like. I don’t just root for the name on the front of the jersey.
So is it just by magical coincidence
That the players you like happen to play for Portland?
Not magiacal at all. They are who I've been watching. There are other players I like, Paul is one of them. I'm just not
enraptured with the notion that we must have a title in order to enjoy watching our team. I’d like a title, but it’s not the main reason I watch the Blazers.
by raoulduke on Jul 22, 2010 7:29 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is ridiculous reasoning.
Chris Paul: the #1 point guard in the NBA. Should have won the MVP in 2008. If he keeps up what he’s been doing for a lengthy period of time will become one of the 30-40 greatest players in NBA history. That much we know. Do we know that for sure about Batum or Oden? No. Personally, I’d like to see our starting five next year be CP3/Roy/Batum/LMA/Okafor, with Oden as the centerpiece of a Paul trade. I guess that’s just me though.
If Camby and Matthews are your #6 and #7
Sign me up.
by avalancheman on Jul 22, 2010 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Apparently, 11 hours ago, Houston and the Celtics were the most likely teams
According to “The Sports Guy”. Even has the Celtics “hammer offer” of
Rondo, Perkins, Sheed’s ghost, No. 1 + 3m for CP3 + Okafor
which turned out not to work.
yeah
not sure how Rondo, a late 1st rounder, and a guy with a busted knee trumps some of the other offers that have been put forward. You are talking 1 quality player there, and a nice role player if he can rehab his knee.
Portland would be offering at 3 young rotation players, and that doesn’t even count Joel and Miller
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
not to mention that the one thing that makes this palatable for N.O fans (at all)
is Collison. Why would they want another all-star PG stomping on the silver lining?
simmons doesn't know crap
he’s entertaining, really funny, but a terrible evaluator of talent, teams, etc
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
assuming that since cp3 already signed an extension we cannot get him to sign another as part of the trade?
would suck to give up a bunch of talent for for 2 years of cp3, and have him opt out
then get stuck with okafor’s contract for 2 years after paul is gone.
Portland is taking a risk that CP will walk after two years
It’s indeed an inherent risk in this trade. Portland would have an advantage, most likely, but the details will depend on the result of the next CBA (the negotiation of which risks shutting down one of the two seasons Portland would be guaranteed to have Paul).
I don't think it's a risk
Anymore that the fact that Greg can leave in 2 years, or Nic can leave in 2 or 3, or the fact that anyone can leave when their contract is up. That’s the NBA. I think if CP3 is traded here then that means he wants to play here. Could he change his mind? Sure. But anyone can change their mind and leave when their contract is up.
except this isn’t a ‘sign and trade’, New Orleans can trade CP3 to whomever they want whether he wants to play there or not, he’s already stated where he wants to go, and it is uncertain if portland is on that list.
He already said he wants to go to NYK and play with stoudamire, so it seems realistic that he may opt out and bolt after 2 years…. anyhow i’m totally on the fence on this.
If we get Paul, we are instant contenders for the next two years
I wouldn’t worry too much about what comes next.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
not if we gut our team while anchoring ourselves to their bad contracts,
I totally understand that CP3 is a game changer, but it is a bit risky for me.
Yes, it is risky
But if we can get him and keep Brandon, Greg, and probably LMA (because of his contract), our chances go through the roof. It’s a risky business, but you have to be willing to take risks to win.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
Okafor does not = a "bad contract" in the traditional sense
He is a young potential-filled center who ran into a bad situation in New Orleans and played unhappy the whole year. In the right system with the right coach, he can easily live up to his potential. Portland could very well be that fit for him.
690 comments over something that at this point, is pure speculation
You people sicken me.
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
but yeah.
i wonder if he’ll bite on the swan song that N.O.’s gonna give him.
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
mostly speculation
not pure
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt
by thomasikehara on Jul 22, 2010 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Ladies and Gentlemen, Blazersedge!
CKTK: A music blog. We write about what we want to write about.
#14
Acquiring Chris Paul is part of our mathematical formula
We started with acquiring #1 Armon Johnson,
then we acquired #2 Wesley Mathews,
it is only logical we continue the natural progression and acquire #3 Chris Paul.
Bingo, Bango, Bongo
the blazers have a line!
by BatumShakalaka88 on Jul 22, 2010 7:23 PM PDT reply actions
Read something that the meeting is scheduled Monday.
So, deal within a week?
yeah, i totally expect we sign him on thursday.
don’t make any plans for the 29th.
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
I'm leaving tomorrow morning to go camping and will not be back until Monday afternoon.
That means 4 days away from my computer and the urge to check on updates on all this CP3 hoopla. It just can’t be healthy….
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Pressure will be on to reach the finals if we get CP3
Don’t know if this point was already posted in one of the 700 or so comments above…but Portland will be under pressure to reach the finals in the next 2 years with CP3. Anything less than a finals trip in year number 2 and CP3 takes his talents somewhere else in 2 years. I’m all for it…you have to take risks. But make no mistake about it, there will be huge pressure on Portland to reach if not win the finals in the next years if Paul joins us.
I agree - I'm just so much more comfortable taking that risk
if we can somehow keep Oden (in my mind, Nic is gone if we get Paul – I’m hoping NO wants a few young guys and expiring/soon to expire veteran deals, i.e. Joel, Camby, Miller). If for whatever reason Paul didn’t work out and he walked and Oden was part of the 2 year rental (and Nic as well), we set this franchise back a long way.
James, Wade, and Bosh = the Nazgul. Once they were great kings, until their greed got the best of them in their lust for the ring.
by blazeraddict on Jul 22, 2010 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions
New Orleans over a barrel, in a much deeper way than many are seeing...
Most don’t see the depth of this so clearly thus far, but they should, it makes this “rumor” pretty “earth shattering” when you look at it intently:
There is a lock out on the horizon…meaning Chris Paul really only has 1 year left on his contract.
This is pretty huge, because NO is basically more “screwed” than many are imagining, and an imminent trade is more likely than people are seeing. If there is a lock out, Paul’s 2nd year gets voided…the Hornets get no appreciable value at all…and with CP3 saying he wants to get traded now…and the league seeing how the Cavs lost total leverage with Lebron by waiting…and considering the Hornets can’t even pretend “we are a 60 win team that is only a year away”….
It is pretty apparent they have reached the “There is no choice but to trade CP3” or lose all value…
I just hope we don’t give up too much for him…bc in all likelihood we are losing one of his prime years, along with Roy & LMA’s, to a lock out…
…to some degree, if we lost Batum for a year, or Oden, we are not really losing one of their “prime” years…
…anyhow, it’ll be interesting to see how it is all going down, but for my $$$, I’d say CP3 absolutely gets traded this year…its reached that point for all logical reasons…
…to what team, time will tell
Some relevent factors
Off the top of my head:
1. It’s basically going to turn into a bidding war. Which team will offer the Hornets the best package?
2. New Orleans really wants to dump Okafor. They are very likely to insist that if you want CP3, you’ve got to take Okafor’s contract, too. Very likely.
3. Hornets fans’ one source of solace in this is that they have a really excellent 2nd year PG in Collison. They might want a vet PG to mentor him (Miller) but they almost certainly have no use for Bayless. Packages that include both Miller & Bayless should probably start over.
4. New Orleans will play teams off each other to get the best deal they can. That means we get to see Paul Allen and Mark Cuban go head to head. That should be interesting. In any case, it almost certainly means we’re going to have to give up something that hurts.
5. Brandon Roy is staying a Blazer. The Roy for Paul idea doesn’t work for three reasons: it’s bad for the Hornets financially, it’s bad for the Blazers’ PR, and the whole reason Portland is on Paul’s list is because he would play with Brandon.
6. LMA probably isn’t going anywhere, either. I love the guy, but most GM’s are going to be hesitant to pick up that huge contract on a Potential. I think New Orleans might be especially cognizant of this, having gone through Chandler than Okafor like they were light bulbs instead of power forwards. Combine the Hornet’s not really wanting him with the Blazers really wanting to keep him, and it’s possible his name wouldn’t even come up in negotiations.
7. New Orleans is going to want both Batum and Oden. See items 1 & 4 on this list. It might very well come down to, “Well, Mr. Cho, we have a very attractive offer from Dallas. The only way we’ll take your offer over theirs is if we get both Greg and Nic in the deal.” Note that this makes me want to cry, as the whole point here is to add CP3’s abilities to what we already have. Giving them two of our four best players would suck, especially if CP3 left after two years and both Greg and Nic become the All-Stars we know they can be.
8. Andre Miller has been a great Blazer, but he has that expiring contract and with Paul here, becomes expendable. He will be part of the package we offer. New Orleans could use a Collison mentor for a year and will love the EC.
9. Joel will be offered and the Blazers will play up his expiring contract as well. We then have to convince the Hornets that Oden and Przybilla are redundant and that they don’t want them both. It’s too bad Monty Williams will know better. The Hornets would take both of them, leaving us with a very old, injury-prone Center and Okafor as the back up. I hope this doesn’t happen this way, but it might.
10. Rudy is unhappy, but has value to other teams that like versatile, exciting, dynamic players. He just doesn’t fit in on a team that tells him that all he’s good for is spotting up and if he misses he’ll be benched. What I’m saying is that Rudy will be part of the deal, and he’d make the Hornets fans very, very happy. When Rudy’s contract expires, he’s going to have suitors and he’s going to get a significant raise.
11. Deals that work (in the trade machine) to acquire Paul & Okafor:
A) Rudy, Miller, Batum, Oden, & Przybilla. (losing both Batum & Oden)
B) Rudy, Miller, Batum, & Camby. (Losing Batum, but not Oden)
Then three very similar deals involving two of our three centers but letting us keep Nic:
C) Rudy, Miller, Camby & Oden (we lose our two healthier centers)
D) Rudy, Miller, Camby & Przybilla (Let’s us keep Batum & Oden, but almost certainly won’t beat the offers from Dallas & Orlando)
E. Rudy, Miller, Oden & Przybilla (Of these last three, this is the most palatable for the Hornets who probably don’t want Camby’s contract, get GO, and get Joel’s EC.)
12. I don’t see any way we win the bidding war without giving up Batum. There’s a chance we can keep Oden, but I just don’t see any deal that keeps Batum, works on the trade machine, and is enough for New Orleans, even if we’re willing to part with Greg. Scenario E is the closest. Scenario D is almost certainly not going to beat Orlando & Dallas.
by sagcat on Jul 22, 2010 8:58 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Considering we will likely lose the 2nd year to a lock out...
I definitely don’t trade BOTH Oden & Batum for CP3…I just don’t.
I’ll take arguments against that, that’s fine, but just don’t tell me the tried and true “you take proven experience over potential….”
Just admit you are not as high on Batum and Oden as I am…cuz that would be the truth…I like those guys…
and I don’t care what anybody says, we are no shoe in with CP3 as our pg for a title…and by the time a lock out is over and CP3 has 2 more years of age on his body…
…and Batum and Oden mature a bit…
I think we’d be regretting that trade already. That’s just me.
you might be confusing me with someone else
who isn’t a huge fan of both Nic Batum & Greg Oden. If anything in my post indicates otherwise, it’s unintentional.
If it were legal and New Orleans wanted to trade Chris Paul straight up for Nic Batum, I’d have doubts. And history might well shine brightly on the team that got Batum, especially given your very real concern over the lockout, mixed with the devastatingly real chance CP3 would opt out and walk in 2012. I’m hoping we don’t lose an entire season to a lockout, but I guess it’s possible. I’m hoping we lose like half a season and still have a legit schedule and playoffs left over.
But make no mistake: title contenders have multiple all-NBA quality guys. We have one such guy now, and adding a second would be huge. And CP3 is younger than Brandon (I think.) We’d have the best backcourt in the league. By a lot.
And if I may address this nonsense coming from the old school players about how they would never do this, etc, etc… I call hogwash. Bird had Dennis Johnson, Kevin McHale, Robert Parrish, Bill Walton… Magic had Worthy, Kareem, Byron Scott, Rambis… Jordan had Pippen and Horace grant, then Dennis Rodman with some of the league’s best ever three point threats in Hodges, Paxon & Kerr… Every great player, if we’re defining them with titles (which we tend to do) played with other great players. Tim Duncan might be the only one, and we could list plenty of top talent he’s teamed with as well.
Option D, please....
I went through several scenarios too (and the good news is, there are MANY screnarios that work), but the one I think gives them fair value without gutting our team is optin D.
Now, don’t forget, we have many possible sweeteners (Foreign players, draft picks, millions of dollars) to make htis deal work.
NO does it because
a) as you said, they get Dre to teach Collison for a year, then uses his expiring contract.
b) They have Pryz EC
c) Rudy will draw in plenty of fans in NO
d) They have Camby to play center and keep things respectable for a couple of years untli all of their cap space gives the the shot at the title.
We do it because our playoff 8-man rotation looks like this:
GO, LA, Okafur as bigs
Batum, Roy, Matthews as wings
CP and Bayless as PG’s.
And our regular season adds Jeff, Dante, and our rookies. Yes please!
it's all crazy talk
CP3’s trade value just dropped through the floor. If – and that’s a big IF – CP3 is traded – NO will get something nice for him – but they are not going to get an Oden + Batum type package.
Would CP3 be the best player on a team with Roy, LMA, Oden and Batum starting alongside? Probably. As good as Roy has been, CP3 has arguably been better. What is really interesting is that Greg Oden’s Win Shares per 48 min in 2009/2010 was better than Paul’s.
Paul’s previous two seasons were off the charts – especially for a point guard on the smallish side of average. Oden has already demonstrated that he can be as good as a Paul down year. If both are healthy, Paul is going to be the more productive player – but Oden will be closer than people think. Throw in Batum and the package heavily favors NO.
Batum – last season – had a better WS/48 than Roy (albeit .001 better). Add Oden’s WS/48 and Batum’s WS/48 from last season alone – and they combine to be better than Paul’s WS/48 in his best season ever. Interestingly, Batum’s WS/48 in his sophomore season was better than Roy’s and Paul’s sophomore seasons – but not better than Oden’s sophomore season.
More than anything, this very simplistic analysis should at least be a cautionary tale on expectations. Expecting CP3 to make up the production difference lost by two prodigious talents is asking too much. Good player yes. Good enough to compensate for both Oden and Batum? Probably not.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 23, 2010 12:15 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Whether someone is wililng to trade both Oden and Batum is mainly a referendum on whether Oden will stay healthy in the future.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
yeah, he does, but he has an injury history at the level that Roy has an injury history
Oden has a history of injury at a Zydrunas Ilgauskas or Yao Ming kind of level (aka whole seasons lost).
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
the problem with injuries is that they are effectively random
Oden no doubt will be injured again. Unless a congenital defect is to blame, that is part of the risk with all players.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 23, 2010 7:13 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Three Teamer involving Cavs - NO sheds Okafor, Posey & Peja, Portland keeps Batum & Camby
I think if there is another team out there that wouldn’t mind seeing another team be able to rise up and compete with Miami it would be the Cavs and their management. Cavs also have no true center and would make a splash post-LeBron with a local Ohio big man with big time potential. This scenario allows Portland to keep Roy, Batum, LMA, Camby, Dante, Matthews, Babbit & Elliot while adding CP3, Okafor and a backup PG for CP3 from the Cavs in Gibson whose much more ready to play than Armon or Mills is. Also gives NOH expirings and young talent – Here’s the breakdown for anyone that can’t use the link to TM.
PDX Gets: CP3, E. Okafor,and D. Gibson
NOH Gets: A. Jamison, J. Moon (expiring), A. Parker (exp), S. Telfair (exp), Delonte West (exp), Rudy (exp) and Joel (exp)
CLE Gets: Peja, Posey, Bayless, Miller, Oden & Pendergraph
Keep it simple!
And keep Oden! New Orleans gets Joel, Andre, Rudy, Batum, and Camby. We get CP3 and Okafor. Everyone’s happy except tough to give up Nic. But with a healthy Oden, we potentially dominate at three positions down the road. Do us proud, Mr. Cho!
When looking at giving up Oden vs Batum
you have to analyze what you’re getting back to replace them. If Blazers get Okafor back in a package and can keep both Batum + Camby then I’d rather let Oden go… is Oden that much better than the production/defense of Batum + Camby? If they are getting Posey instead then you HAVE to keep Oden, and in a CP3 + Posey trade then Batum is expendable since Matthews & Posey should be able to handle the SF postion. Either way don’t give up more than 1 of these players: Camby, Batum, Oden. That should be the goal IMO.
when healthy... yes oden is that much better
don’t get me wrong… Batum is the man, he’s my 2nd favorite blazer (behind Oden so my bias is in play). However, Oden impacts the defensive end by not only locking down his man, but also protecting the rim from anyone who penetrates off the perimeter, thats what a center does. Meanwhile, although he’s damn good at it, Batum only locks up one guy at a time. Offensively, Oden scores very efficiently. Plus, we already brought back a player that can help replace Batum in matthews
The elephant in the room.
Hey guys, is it time that we address the elephant in the room?
Ever since we laid off Steve Blake we’ve all known that Portland needs its next ALL STAR point guard. The problem is, where do we find this guard, how can this guard be obtained, do we even want this guard, is he the right type of guard (e.g. point)? We need to be careful we get the right one and not just the first one that walks into the front office. Sometimes people say whatever gets them ahead in their interviews, so we might not want to go with an applicant we don’t know anything about. An option could be going with a friend or relative of someone on the team already, since they could give us the thumbs up or thumbs down. Like we could ask Rudy if he knows anyone who’s a point guard. Or ask Greg if he knows anyone from his hood who shoots a nasty 3-ball. I’m not saying we’ll go with just anyone, but it’s nice to work with people you know. But if we can’t find anyone local…
well…
I also read on www.chatmag.com/topics/sports/basketball.html today that Chris Paul is thinking of relocating from New Orleans. I don’t know why this came up all of a sudden (hurricane season?) but he wants out! This could be an excellent opportunity to “poach” someone from another team.
So what I’m wondering is…
Chris Paul and Portland Trailblazers a possible match???
I looked at Chris Paul’s statistics and if we added him we’d be scoring over a hundred points a game, plus an extra 10 assists! I know Nate likes to keep the pace slow, so he might ask the team to score fewer points, but that can be fine-tuned during the season.
I know many of you will have your own ideas on who we should hire—maybe people you know and I don’t. They might be good, but I know this guy could be the guy, so I took the liberty of creating a mini gallery of what he could bring to the team next year.
This comment was posted by a Orlando fan at realgm.
“Anyhow, Clearing salary is more valuable than amassing a huge set of mediocre role players like Batum, Bayless, Rudy, and Oden. Those guys are taking your franchise anywhere.”
I just had to post this somewhere Blazer fans can read this. I don’t even know what to say.
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