Magic Johnson is full of it

A great article on True Hoop analyzing the ridiculous comments Magic made about LeBron. Not sure if it's hypocritical...more like comparing apples to oranges. At the heart of the argument is a comparison between Magic's teammates vs LeBron's teammates. Here's how it breaks down:

Then Mike gets to comparing the Lakers who played with Johnson in his first seven years to the Cavaliers who played with James over the same period. Johnson's teammates, in aggregate, had:

* Two first team All-Rookie selections (Byron Scott, James Worthy)
* 11 All-Star appearances (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar seven times, Norm Nixon twice, Worthy, Jamaal Wilkes)
* Four All-NBA first team selections (Abdul-Jabbar)
* Two All-NBA second team selections (Abdul-Jabbar)
* Five All-Defensive first team selections (Michael Cooper three times, Abdul-Jabbar twice)
* Four All-Defensive second team selections (Cooper three times, Abdul-Jabbar once)
* One MVP Award (Abdul-Jabbar)
* In addition, Abdul-Jabbar, Worthy, Wilkes, Nixon, and Cooper all got votes for MVP at one point in time or the other during Magic's first seven years, and Cooper won defensive player of the year in Johnson's eighth year.

Mike does a similar analysis on James' Cavs' rosters:

* Zero first team All-Rookie Selections
* Two All-Star game appearances (Mo Williams, Zydrunas llgauskas)
* Zero All-NBA first team selection
* Zero All-NBA second team selections
* Zero All-Defensive first team selections
* One All-Defensive second team selection (Anderson Vareajo)
* Zero MVP Awards

That is pretty overwhelming evidence that LeBron and Magic were dealing with two totally different situations. Magic was born into the royalty of the NBA while LeBron went to a poor team. Magic has little credibility telling LeBron not to get what he had himself.

almost 2 years ago JasonT 33 comments 1 recs |

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its true

magic already had 2 HOFers on his team when he came

Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt

by thomasikehara on Jul 21, 2010 6:37 PM PDT reply actions

That sort of misses the point, though...

The problem isn’t LeBron leaving Cleveland for a team with better players. If he had gone to Chicago with Boozer, the reaction wouldn’t be the same.

The problem is that LeBron chose to team with THE other dominant star of the day. The issue is that LeBron and Wade should be having epic clashes every year in the playoffs like Magic and Bird did, and to a lesser extent Jordan, Magic, and Bird did.

Great supporting players, even ones like Kareem, are just that—supporting players. Alpha dogs aren’t supposed to team up in the prime of their career—it proves that they’re not really alpha dogs. And I think everyone is pretty certain Wade is still an alpha dog. It’s his team. He recruited the others. He’s won on his own. It’s LeBron who tucked his tail and ran for cover. Joining a team with a lot of great supporting players, even future HOFers, would have been fine. Joining Wade’s team is not, at least not if he wants to be known as the greatest to ever play the game. I think that’s the issue Barkley, Jordan, Magic and company have with this.

"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave

by DC Blazer on Jul 22, 2010 7:54 AM PDT up reply actions

Also, LeBron left a pretty good team

Not that he had all-world teammates, but they had the best record in the league two years running. The Cavs were good enough for him to compete; but instead of competing he left for an easier route to a ring.

Totally different for a rookie, however talented, to want to join a team with great players and a chance to win, than for the best player in the league to give up on a team that contends every year.

by zopa on Jul 22, 2010 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions

My opinion is that Kareem was better than Magic, though age may have changed that.

However, it was never Jordan vs. Magic vs. Bird.

It was Jordan vs. Drexler vs. Thomas vs. Barkley vs. Malone/Stockten. Bird and Magic were already a bit too old during this time, and though their teams might go far in the playoffs, they still ended up being crushed by the elite teams.

In Bayless I trust.
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by staylost on Jul 21, 2010 7:31 PM PDT reply actions

well Jordan came from a similar place

and it took a long time for him to start winning titles as a result. The point about johnson’s situation is more apprapo.

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Jul 21, 2010 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions

Perhaps he was, but personality wise, it was Magic's team.

I think that’s the real issue in these guys eyes. Joining forces with another alpha dog means you’re not an alpha dog. To hyper-competitive folks like Jordan and Magic the idea of joining a guy like Wade’s team is unthinkable.

"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave

by DC Blazer on Jul 22, 2010 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions

Magic and MJ shouldn't be talking when they had completely different realities.

Like the article said, if Lebron had landed on a cast like Magic’s, he never would have left and they wouldn’t be saying anything. Nice find in that article showing how full of it Magic is too.

by Coastie07 on Jul 21, 2010 7:56 PM PDT reply actions

Jordan's situation was not much different

it took him 7 seasons to win a title, it took a while for the pieces to come together, he could a looked for higher powered rosters but he did stick it out with the bulls without complaint as far as I can recall…

Magic does not have that type of background behind him though so he has less room to talk…

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Jul 22, 2010 1:35 AM PDT up reply actions

Magic has less room to talk, but MJ did have Pippen before his 4th season.

by Coastie07 on Jul 22, 2010 7:30 AM PDT up reply actions

but Pippen was, at the time of the move, not a Wade or a Bosh

Horace Grant may be more salient here, he was a much bigger add at the time.

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Jul 22, 2010 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions

Back then NBA allowed longer-term contracts

4 years into Jordan’s 7 year long rookie contract, he renegotiated an 8-year contract extension. He was essentially wrapped up by the Bulls for the first 12 years of his career.

Jordan could’ve demanded a trade, but he didn’t have the option to leave like LeBron early in his career. And remember, the year Jordan 1st retired, the Bulls won 55 games and went 7 games into the second round. You think Cleveland is going to do that without LeBron?

by JasonT on Jul 22, 2010 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions

right

but that was after 6 titles

LeBron could have waited it out. The Cavs were putting pieces around LeBron and they bent over backwards to make him happy.

I do believe LeBron takes a hit in terms of popularity because so much of his story has been home town kid building a winner from a typically hapless/unlucky franchise.

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Jul 22, 2010 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions

No doubt LeBron's popularity took a hit

But my point was that by the time the Michael Jordan reached his 7th year with the Bulls, he was under contract for 5 more years. He did not have the option that LeBron had 7 years into his career to leave for another team via free agency. As a matter of fact, Jordan retired to play baseball before he even finished his contract that essentially was supposed to span the first 12 years of his career.

by JasonT on Jul 22, 2010 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions

I don't believe the Cavs did a good job getting championship pieces around Lebron.

Lebron put in 7 years to give them plenty of chance to build a championship team and they didn’t do it, and it was far from Lebron’s fault. He did everything anybody could have done and more with what he was given. He would have stayed if they had done what Chicago had done for Jordan. We all saw what the pieces around Jordan did when he left to play baseball. They won 55 games. Let’s see what’s Lebron’s pieces do in Cleveland this year.

by Coastie07 on Jul 22, 2010 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions

Plus it was LA, not Cleveland

I’m not saying people can’t enjoy being in Cleveland, but LA is a better city all around, especially back in 1980.

I’m not even a huge LeBron fan but I’m tired of Jordan, Barkley and Magic mouthing off about James needing to call up him buds to win a championship. Barkley has a lot of room to talk also going to Houston to win a championship, a la Malone and Payton in LA.

by thrice on Jul 21, 2010 9:14 PM PDT reply actions

Drexler, Barkley, Malone and Payton were old and worn down.

That isn’t comparable to what we are talking about.

Magic and Bird were drafted into multi superstar teams through internal NBA corruption so they didn’t cut and run to get onto a team with their adversaries.

In Bayless I trust.
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by staylost on Jul 21, 2010 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions

I was thinking exactly the same thing as truehoop...

I was looking at all-nba teams and worthy was up there with Magic and Abdul-Jabbar, they were almost a prototypical big 3 – plus they had Cooper for his D and Byron Scott wasn’t a slouch either.

I think Jordan has more credibility because he had less support, although Pippen was a great player, and Rodman had some good years in Chicago (but Mike won how many rings without Rodman?).

I don’t get Barkley ripping the Miami 3 though – he demanded a trade from Philly to Phoenix to play with two other stars in KJ and Tom Chambers (although Chambers was past his prime), I think Dan Majerle made some all-star teams too?

by simoninaustralia on Jul 21, 2010 10:14 PM PDT reply actions

Jordan's the only guy who can talk

He won 3 without Rodman. With that said. I find it a bit funny how it might take 3 superstars in order to make a team as dominate that one Jordan could, haha

by Oden_Favre_28 on Jul 21, 2010 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions

of course

harace grant did not start a bull and he was key to getting the titles rolling for the Bulls, but i do agree, jordan has more room to talk.

You are talking 3 out of 5 NBA allstar starters for the east last season…

Magics point might have more traction if say Kobe, Melo and LeBron came together…ya know the top 3 vote getters in the league MVP race…hat is what magic is contemplating in joining forces with Bird and Hakeem….

Bird and Magic were rivals, the idea of joining up probably seemed alien to them…I would hope LeBron would not seriously contemplate joining Kobe…

"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man

by PDXBuckeye on Jul 22, 2010 1:43 AM PDT up reply actions

Because Jordan did it on his own, right?

Chicago won 55 games without MJ during his baseball season. Chicago’s teams had plenty of players and all-stars, not named Jordan to help him out. And then there was that slouch Pippen, who Chuck Daly said was the 2nd best player on the original Dream Team, which Chuck coached.

by Coastie07 on Jul 22, 2010 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions

if Majerle made the all star team

i have to rethink watchin the NBA.
they’ve lost all credibility…

kObe iS thE aNtiChRiSt

by Brendan Holladay on Jul 22, 2010 3:39 AM PDT up reply actions

Dan Majerle made 3 all star games

91-92 17.3 ppg, 5.9 rpg
92-93 16.9 ppg, 4.7 rpg
94-95 15.6 ppg, 4.6 rpg

"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare

by douglast on Jul 22, 2010 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

with the 1995 game being the biggest joke

Majerle makes the game, which was conveniently being held in Phoenix.

Meanwhile, the big trio in Portland apparently split all the coaches votes, with none of them making it:
Clyde: 22.0 p, 5.7 r, 5.1 a (traded right around all star break)
Cliffy: 21.3 p, 5.6 r
Rod: 18.9 p, 8.8 a, 5.0 r

"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare

by douglast on Jul 22, 2010 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

for reals?

wow! i remember him in a dunk contest early in his career but i didn’t know he made even one all star game. that’s actually impressive for a one-dimensional dunker early in his career and one-dimensional 3 point shooter later in his career. thanks for the correction. can i at least say he was the second most annoyin announcer? those lean years for the Blazers he was just plain rude about our team. laughin it up and one derogatory comment after another. Sean Elliot isn’t a lot better either….

kObe iS thE aNtiChRiSt

by Brendan Holladay on Jul 22, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions

so what's next for Majerle?

the Hall of Fame?

kObe iS thE aNtiChRiSt

by Brendan Holladay on Jul 22, 2010 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions

LeBrons team last season was more than capable of winning it all

Born purple and gold. Live purple and gold. Die purple and gold.

by RA37thriller on Jul 21, 2010 11:11 PM PDT reply actions

ew

what on God’s green (turning blackish with each passing day) earth makes you think the Cavs were “more than capable of winning it all”?

Can’t wait for the whole world to see how bad the Cavs will be without LeBron. I am guessing a 20 win season for Cleveland.

picture me rollin'

by Utah Sucks on Jul 21, 2010 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions

the same thing that made almost everyone think the Cavs were capable of winnin it all

LBJ and the best record in the NBA….

kObe iS thE aNtiChRiSt

by Brendan Holladay on Jul 22, 2010 3:41 AM PDT up reply actions

listenin to or readin anything Magic has to say NBA related

really hurts my head….

kObe iS thE aNtiChRiSt

by Brendan Holladay on Jul 22, 2010 3:36 AM PDT reply actions

One aspect missing to the breakdown:

1,431 Missed Travelling Calls (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 986 times, Worthy 445)

by BlazerDavid on Jul 22, 2010 9:45 AM PDT reply actions

In all seriousness, however,

I think you are all missing the point of Magic’s comments. By the time he and Larry Legend peaked, and Jordan began to rise, they were clearly the elite players in the league. And they would never have considered joining forces because of their competitive nature. They wanted to play against the best, as that is the truest test of greatness. Yes, they had excellent role players as well, which was a testament to the team’s leadership. But many of those players, outside of Kareem, have inflated All-Star appearances and other awards because Larry and Magic made them far better players.

by BlazerDavid on Jul 22, 2010 9:55 AM PDT reply actions

But what if Magic was on the Clippers instead of the Lakers?

You don’t think he would’ve wanted to join other elite players such as Bird or Kareem?

It’s easy for Magic to say that. He never had to be on a team devoid of hall fame teammates. If LeBron had hall of fame players with him in Cleveland, I doubt he would be leaving. All LeBron wants is what Magic had in terms of teammates. And there a lot of people who feel teammates like Kareem, Worthy, Wilkes, Cooper, Nixon were superior to teammates like Wade and Bosh. Basically, Magic is saying “how dare you try to get what I had.” It rings a little hollow to me.

by JasonT on Jul 22, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions