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Around SBN: Win or Lose, Boston Celtics' New Big 3 Era A Success

Does the Paul trade even work?


Using next year's salaries:

Paul $14,940,153
Okafor $11,540,375
$26,480,528
-$100,000
$26,380,528
125%
     Needed $21,104,422
Batum $1,196,760
Miller $7,269,264
Bayless $2,292,600
Pryzbilla $7,405,300
     Total $18,163,924
Difference -$2,940,498

Not sure if you use this year's or next year's salaries.  Using last year's salaries it still comes up $2.5 million short.  You almost have to throw in three more players to make up the difference, given the Blazers curren troster.  Or Oden instead of Batum?

Am I missing something?



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CB Trade...

I think they were going to add the 22nd pick (Williams) as well?

by thorfio on Jul 2, 2010 11:16 AM PDT reply actions  

Yes i’m pretty sure it works. I believe if you’re over the cap you can take on contracts up to 125% +100k of the amount of contracts you’re sending to the other team. So using $18,163,924 the blazers can take back up to $22,804,905 if my understanding is correct.

by T-stroyer on Jul 2, 2010 11:22 AM PDT reply actions  

That's the point ....

They’re taking back $26,480,528 in Paul and Okafor – that’s too much. And yes, the original trade was also for the 22nd pick – but a draft pick doesn’t add any numbers to the calculation, and if just substitute in Williams – that’s only about $1.2 million.

by ATeam on Jul 2, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

i think the other piece that we would send to not only sweeten the deal but help with contracts would be Babbit

by RipCityforLife on Jul 2, 2010 11:55 AM PDT reply actions  

Not enough

My guess is the bad contract we’d be taking back is smaller than Okafor’s, or we would be seding out Oden.

by HailOden! on Jul 2, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

At this point

we have you use 2010/11 salaries, and yes that trade would not work. I’m not sure if Okafur was included in the deal that was rumored. Still being about 2 million away from making the deal, I’m sure someone could be included to make it happen.

by usmcr3049 on Jul 2, 2010 12:21 PM PDT reply actions  

Actually, all the euros = 2.75 million

From Storyteller’s site.

(Victor Claver) [#22 in 2009] 1,045,600
(Petteri Koponen) [#30 in 2007] 850,800
(Joel Freeland) [#30 in 2006] 850,800

by parkinglotj on Jul 2, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

the blazers has a little exception from the Martel trade. not sure how much it is.

by Hoi on Jul 2, 2010 1:15 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Trade exceptions can not be combined with players

to make the salaries work. They can only be used to get a player, as far as I can remember.

by usmcr3049 on Jul 2, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

or....

include a team that would take a couple players like Rudy and one of the picks to another team with cap or a team that wants them.

let’s see…. teams that would want Rudy…. wizards, wolves, Toronto, and bulls….

all but Toronto has cap. I could b wrong, Toronto may have a little cap after bosh leaves

by Hoi on Jul 2, 2010 1:31 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Don't forget that Joel and CP3 have trade bonuses that kick in

I think a 3rd team will need to be involved, NOLA needs to dump more albatross salaries than Portland can absorb

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Jul 2, 2010 1:29 PM PDT reply actions  

This trade could work, but we would have to add in some other players

Your right on with Joel, Miller, Batum, and Bayless adding up to $18,163,924. I found a different cap number for Okafur, (I used Storyteller’s site) so using that I have CP3+Okafur adding up to $26,435,153, which is pretty close to your number.
Add Rudy, Williams, and Koponen, will get you up to $21,307,004, which would work under the 125% +100,000 rule.

Or add Williams, Claver, and Kopenen and you get $21,105,924, which would also work under the 125% +100,000 rule, although just barely, ($47,252 to spare).

A combo of Rudy, Freeland, and Koponen also would work, again just barely, ($55,102 to spare).

Or the Blazers could resign Howard or Mills, and include them into a package to make it work. The point being, is that the Blazers can still make a deal based around Joel, Miller, Batum and Bayless.

by usmcr3049 on Jul 2, 2010 1:44 PM PDT reply actions  

also

the Blazers could keep Bayless and include Rudy in the deal, while adding some parts to make the money work, if they wanted him more, and the Hornets like Rudy more.

by usmcr3049 on Jul 2, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Two4larue is right

I totally missed the trade kickers. That Makes CP3+Okafur total $28,676,176. And Joel, Miller, Batum, and Bayless total $19.274.719. (all salaries again pulled from storyteller’s site). The trade kickers make it so that we almost have to resign and trade Howard or Mills, or include one of our currently unsigned 1st round draft picks.

A deal that added Williams, Claver, Koponen, and Freeland would work under the 125% +100,000 rule for example.

by usmcr3049 on Jul 2, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here's a more realistic deal that includes the trade kickers.

The original deal that NO already turned down was Miller, Przy, Bayless, and Batum for Paul.

So add Camby for Okafor and the deal works within the CBA, and NO saves about $30M compared to the original deal. (Okafor’s contract is about $52M over 4 years while Camby’s is about $22M over 2 years, plus we can always kick in another $3M cash for salary relief next year).

So maybe NO does the deal for the additional $30M they save. (But NJ can save them more money so don’t get your hopes up).

Coming into NO:

Przy ~8500 (trade kicker)
Miller 7300
Bayless 2300
Batum 1200
Camby 10600

Total 29,900

Leaving NO

Paul 14500
Okafor 11495

Total 25,995 * 1.25 + 100 = 32,600 So it works because that’s more than the 29,900 coming in

Coming into Portland

Paul 17200 (trade kicker)
Okafor 11500

Total 28,700

Leaving Portland

Przy 7400
Miller 7300
Bayless 2300
Batum 1200
Camby 10600

Total 28,800 * 1.25 + 100 = 36,100

Like I said above NJ can make them a better deal by sending Devin Harris and a huge trade exception for Paul and Okafor. NO gets Harris ($9M) to replace Paul and saves $17M in salary next year (assuming they don’t use the trade exception). Plus they get rid of Okafor’s remaining 3 years at $40.5M.

But if we got a 3rd team involved in the deal we could be more competitive. If we traded Camby and Rudy to Minn and Minn sent Kevin Love to NO (Okafor still comes to PDX), then NO gets another cheap ($3.6) younger player instead of Camby (saving them another $7M this year and next). Hopefully, Minn would do the deal if Rudy would help them get Rubio to come over sooner. Also if Minn wanted Okafor instead of Camby, we could just send them Rudy and keep Camby. Minn would get Okafor from NO for Love.

In the last two scenarios NO would be getting Miller, Przy, Bayless, Batum, and Love for Paul+Okafor plus saving a bunch of money. That might look better to them than just getting Devin Harris and saving money.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 2, 2010 2:40 PM PDT reply actions  

I'd prefer not to include Camby

First of all, he’s a great defender, and Okafor isn’t really. Second, by using small contracts to get up to barely match Paul and Okafor’s contracts, we could obtain a reasonably sized trade exception with which we could acquire a better small forward than would otherwise be available for the MLE. And we could sign a backup 1, 2, or 3 with the MLE and BIE as well. I’m not sure how to make it work around the CBA though, but it seems possible.

by HailOden! on Jul 2, 2010 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

There aren't enough small contracts to take back Okafor.

Paul+Okafor = 28,700 incoming salary. Therefore we have to send out at least 22,880.
Miller+Przy+Bayless+Batum = 18,200
Therefore we need to add at least 22,880 – 18,200 = 4,680
The sum total of Rudy+Cunningham+Pendergraph+Mills = 3345 (if Mills even took the qualifying offer)
So it’s essentially impossible to do a 2 team trade without including Camby, LMA, or Oden. There’s no one else left on the roster.

So as I said, the only other way would be to get a 3rd team like Minn to exchange a player (like Love) for Okafor but then what do you give to Minn to get them to do that deal? Would they do it for just Rudy? I doubt it. So for what? Rudy+Cunningham? Would you really give up 6 players (Miller, Bayless, Przy, Batum, Rudy, & Cunningham) and only get back Chris Paul? I think that is probably over the line.

So, if we were ready to trade Miller, Bayless, Przy, & Batum for Paul, why not also trade Camby for Okafor to get the deal done? Are you really saying you won’t give up Camby to get Chris Paul because Camby is that much better than Okafor?
I’d do the deal in a heartbeat.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 2, 2010 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also we could sign our draft picks and trade them. But you have to wait for 30 days after they sign.

We could sign Babbitt for up to $1.6M, and Williams for $1.3M. But not even Rudy plus both of them add up to $4.68M so it would take at least one more player. That’s an 8 for 2 player trade, so I don’t think that’s going to happen.

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 2, 2010 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd still do your deal

but I was under the impression it was doable without letting go of Camby. It seems I was mistaken.

by HailOden! on Jul 2, 2010 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here's a way.

1) Paul Allen has a talk with David Kahn, Minn GM.
2) Minn agree’s to send Love to NO in exchange for Okafor to complete our CP3 trade, if we send Rudy to Minn.
3) David Kahn resigns as Minn GM
4) Paul Allen hires David Kahn as Blazer GM

I wonder how long it would take David Stern to reverse those trades?

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 2, 2010 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Insignificant correction to above.

The sum total of Rudy+Cunningham+Pendergraph+Mills = 3711 (if Mills even took the qualifying offer)

by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 3, 2010 2:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Combining two rumors

I heard two separate rumors. One was Prysbilla, Miller, Bayless and Batum for Paul which works under the CBA. The other was Paul to Orlando for their back-up center and Nelson. The rumor was that the Orlando trade failed because New Orleans wanted Okafor to be part of the deal and did not want Carter. Orlando needed to find a team under the cap to take Okafor off New Orleans hands so New Orleans could start over with a group of young players. I suspect the same problem exists with the Portland trade but that was not part of the rumor I read. So your basic premise is probably correct: New Orleans will not move Paul unless they can also move Okafor and neither Portland nor Orlando has enough players/salaries that New Orleans wants and that either team is willing to give up to trade for both Paul and Okafor.

It makes little sense for New Orleans to trade Paul and keep Okafor. If a team that strikes out on the free agent market likes Okafor enough take his salary and give up young players and/or draft picks, New Orleans will likely trade Paul also because he will not want to part of rebuilding. I’m not sure Batum and Bayless (Prysbilla and Miller are filler) is enough. Someone (like a team that actually has cap space) will likely make a better offer.

by chemistrymajor on Jul 2, 2010 4:13 PM PDT reply actions  

Trading the owner is not a realistic option at this time.

Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.

by Net Ranger on Jul 2, 2010 9:10 PM PDT reply actions  

First we trade our second best defender for a draft pick and now

we’re considering trading Batum also?

Yeah, great. So we’re angling to be an offensive beast that has no solid defense whatsoever. Pardon me if I’m not so enthused.

"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."

by Seijeff on Jul 2, 2010 10:36 PM PDT reply actions  

when did they trade camby for a draft pick?

or was it oden or pryzbilla traded for a draft pick?

#88

by pipgras on Jul 2, 2010 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Martell is considered to be a very capable defender.

And by the way, how has it worked out so far to have no real defense and simply depend on the centers to clean up after everyone else’s mistakes on the perimeter? Oden won’t be in the game much if he’s still having to foul repeatedly because the defense didn’t rotate correctly and left him the last line in the middle.

"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."

by Seijeff on Jul 3, 2010 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rudy

…..I think he’s available as a sweetener. lol

by peregrinebrm on Jul 3, 2010 2:39 AM PDT reply actions  

why would CP3 want to come here?

Not going to happen. He’s a loyal guy and he’s a superstar in his prime. Superstars in their prime have never come here. They were drafted or developed here but never have they come here in their prime years. Can anyone name a single trade like this in Portland history?

slimkim

by slimkim on Jul 6, 2010 12:28 AM PDT reply actions  

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