Blazers Make 5 Year Offer To Jazz Guard Wesley Matthews
SLC Dunk has and the Salt Lake City Tribune have the Blazers making an offer to Wes Matthews at 5 years and $25 million.
Update: Yahoo! Sports has the offer at five years, $34 million.
Update: This from a Blazers press release:
TRAIL BLAZERS SIGN WESLEY MATTHEWS TO OFFER SHEET
PORTLAND, Ore. – The Portland Trail Blazers announced today they have signed restricted free-agent guard Wesley Matthews to an offer sheet. Per team policy, financial details were not disclosed.
The Utah Jazz will have seven days to match the offer sheet from the day on which they receive it.
Undrafted out of Marquette University, Matthews appeared in all 82 games, including 48 starts, for Utah as a rookie during the 2009-10 season. He averaged 9.4 points (48.3% FG, 38.2% 3-PT, 82.9% FT), 2.3 rebounds, 1.5 assists and 24.7 minutes for the Jazz.
Matthews (6-5, 220) started all 10 of Utah’s 2010 postseason contests, posting averages of 13.2 points, 4.4 rebounds and 1.7 assists in 37.1 minutes.
over 1 year ago
Dave
1111 comments
1 recs |
Comments
I'm all for anything that slows the Jazz
also Petro just left the Nugz to head to the Nets. http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-freeagentbuzz070910
Our division is getting a little weaker.
Non Sequitor- Useless Fact
Every Wesley I’ve ever known has ended up at some point with missing teeth.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
What about
Wesley crusher?
by doomsdaymachine on Jul 10, 2010 8:18 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
"Crusher"
was one of the nicknames we had for Matthews.
The more popular one was OMSW. Which stands for “Oh My Sweet Wesley.”
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
Shums, the fact that you said "was" makes me very sad
Having to refer to him in the past tense makes me borderline depressed, more than the offer sheet itself did. I may have to start getting used to it, I suppose.
/sorry for bringing the SLCDunk talk to BEdge
We've done the same thing with the guys we've lost over the seasons.
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
No worries.
Our fans have done that to other SBN Blogs for years without being considerate enough to apologize.
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
by T Darkstar on Jul 10, 2010 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol
The thing about Blazers fans, though, is that you guys tend to be not at all troll-ish. Most of you are reasonable, knowledgeable, and make genuine contributions to discussions. Much better than certain other fanbases which shall remain nameless.
Wow, the Suns blog did not feel that way at all during the playoffs.
Then again, not many other blogs feel that way about us.
they were just upset because there were so many of us
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
We are the Zombie Invasion.
Blaaaazers. BLAAAAZERS!
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
We will eat your blogs!
Blogs! … Blogs!
In KP I trusted!
by LaoTzu on Jul 10, 2010 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
they also did not like the Laker fans on their blog. The AUTHOR of that blog
was the one who was getting his undies all twisted about it.
Blogabull hates us
I honestly don’t know why. I get why some of the WC fans hate us. We are many. Even if most of us behave, there are always bound to be a few trolls.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
by dan_the_man on Jul 10, 2010 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I checked out the comments when they told us not to post there anymore
I still don’t get it. Who knew Chicagoans were sooo sensitive.
In KP I trusted!
Blogabull is pretty funny...I was laughing out loud at some of the LEBRON remarks.
Also they are allowed to swear. So I like reading how peoplel really feel about certain things.
Maybe it's just my experience, then
But every time I can remember having BEdge guests over at SLCDunk, there haven’t been any “Kobe RULEZ”-esque posts or anything like that. Whoops, I guess that makes one of those fanbases not nameless anymore.
We're also really modest
On a scale of 1 to 10, I’d rate our modesty a 9.8.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
by dan_the_man on Jul 10, 2010 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I feel bad
knowing how Portland fans feel about losing our own players. Your comment reminds of some the comments people posted after Outlaw and Martell were traded.
It is always tough when one of your favorites leaves
In the course of a single season, Matthews became far-and-away my current Jazzman, and started challenging for the all-time title (currently held, as my screenname shows, by Shandon Anderson). I love(d) his defense, his shooting, his hustle, his defense, his attitude, his underdog, “nobody but the Jazz believed in me” story, his defense, the fact that he looked completely unfazed going up against Kobe or Carmelo in the freaking playoffs, and have I mentioned his defense? So I’m probably taking this possible departure harder than most.
No worries! We enjoy other fans perspectives. It's better than another Chris Paul trade post.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Jul 11, 2010 7:39 AM PDT up reply actions
there are plenty of NG fans who would've like to have had the chance
back in the day
poor Wil Weaton, his character was the victim of some horrendous scripts
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
PLAY THE GAME, WESLEY
if we don’t match, get ready to use that a lot :)
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
New to the Dunk? Read the Manifesto.
he can't be worse than Outlaw and Webster re: BBIQ
I won’t believe it ‘til I see it, Blazer fans have put up with some awfully raw wing players over the past 5 years, it’s a wonder we haven’t caught samonella
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Would he make Rudy expendable?
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
luxury tax
won’t this put the blazers way over the cap into luxury land?
by doomsdaymachine on Jul 11, 2010 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Matthews started all 10 playoff games for the Jazz last season averaging 13.2 points and 4.4 rebounds. The numbers should answer that question. He was a rookie.
"With the first pick of the 2007 NBA draft, the Portland Trail Blazers select: Greg Oden from Ohio State University"
He also guarded Kobe and Melo.
Who did Rudy guard?
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 10, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
who did Rudy guard?
He certainly wasn’t looking out for his reputation
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I'll play Captain Obvious, here
This really makes it seem like we are entertaining any reasonable offer for Rudy. What a disappointment!
In KP I trusted!
Seems as though he is not at all tradeable. Ironic isn't it? He gets all upset
at the Blazers not meeting his conditions, plays like dog doo and guess what? He gets to stay with the Blazers.
It would
although I’m fairly certain that Rudy is being shopped pretty heavily this summer. He doesn’t want to be here (not because of the team or fans) and unfortunately since he spent a good bit of time openly complaining about Nate if he is still here next season for some reason he better get used to riding the pine. As much as he’s disappointed me, more for his bad attitude than his play this season since there’s reasons I could see him having a bad second year but the ‘tude if just annoying, I do still like Rudy and would like to see him do well on another team. He needs to on a more fast-paced, transitional offense team and he’ll look like a rockstar.
That being said I’ve read that the Jazz would really like to keep Wesley and paying $5 mil a year for a starting shooting guard doesn’t seem like all that big of a stretch for them especially since they don’t have Boozer or Korver anymore. Maybe they won’t match it and that would be great but otherwise it seems like a repeat of the Paul Milsap thing last summer (even the same team) so I’m not really sure what’s going on.
Rudy is being shopped pretty heavily this summer
His agent (Andy Miller) is calling the shots. If the new team isn’t in a big market, isn’t ready to win now and doesn’t want to start Fernandez of play him a lot of minutes, then his agent is telling them that Rudy won’t be happy playing there
The inmates are running the NBA asylum
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
but worse things could happen than being stuck with Rudy
contract not so bad. It would be a shame to lose him without getting anything back, though
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Jul 10, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Addition by subtraction?
If losing Rudy for nothing means no more pouting on the bench and no chance for him to become a distraction or a locker room cancer then I think you might actually be getting something for him … just nothing tangible.
there was a quote from Paul Allen a month ago
that if Rudy was going to make things difficult then he could rot on the bench
RFS1970 and others have speculated that the Blazers could just suspend Fernandez (with pay) and let him stay in Spain and play for no one, this coming season. (Like the Knicks did with Marbury, Rudy’s 1.2 mil salary is chump change, for Allen.) Then the Blazers have a team option for Fernandez in 2011-2012 and they could wait until the last possible minute to exercise it, to limit Rudy’s options re: playing overseas during the NBA lockout.
If Rudy wants to try and whine his way into a better situation, I have no problem if Portland decides to put his career on ice. Sure, the Spanish BB fans would howl, and Claver would be history as a future Portland player, but no team should allow an average NBA talent like Fernandez to dictate terms. Rudy needs Portland a lot more than the Blazers need him, and that should be made clear to his agent by the next Blazer GM
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Heavy 2x4 there, larue;
I’m not ready to throw Rudy!!! under the bus so easily.
Injuries and hack attacks had a lot to do with his drop-off last year and
I wouldn’t be so sure about any Paul Allen quote I didn’t hear on tape or see with letterhead.
How about we get ALL the team back and healthy and give it a run –
winning has a way to cure many discontentments.
Rudy’s key to playing minutes is playing well, at both ends. We’ll see, maybe.
all fine and well
but something tells me Rudy will refuse to play for us this year.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
That's when you throw him under the bus
Or now, I really don’t care. I’ve about had it with Rudy. It’s too bad, I really loved him when his rookie year. It seemed like losing Sergio killed his game.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
Trevor Arriza breaking his back on a breakaway dunk is what killed him
They revived him, but he has NEVER been the same player.
In KP I trusted!
I like Rudy as well, and don't want to see him go, but the guy is done here.
He said he was BETRAYED by the team this year. Betrayed. Think about that. How did we betray him? He was the starting 2 guard in the playoffs and the team asked him to pick up his scoring in Brandon’s absence. He’s done here. Irreconcilable differences. He just doesn’t fit with Nate. Trade him now before he demands one.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Jul 10, 2010 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions
if you're still in Rudy's camp after all he's said and done
then I don’t think there’s anything that I can do to ’splain it to you
Fernandez would’ve already been traded if his agent wasn’t out there poisoning the wells in small markets and on teams where Rudy would have to actually fight for his minutes
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
what did he do while on the court
during March-April that makes you want to give him another chance?
It’s obvious the Blazers are looking “past” Rudy this summer, I just wish Paul had let KP deal him back in Feb when he had a decent deal on the table
such a waste
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Came back to play
after surgery.
I just happen to think its worth taking another look when he is healthy to see if he can get his mojo back.
I am realistic about his shortcomings, but what I saw was that hit from Ariza messed with both his body and his head. Can he recover? I think he deserves the chance given his sacrifice to come over to the NBA for less cash and who knows what promises.
if he stays with the Blazers they need to INSIST he works out and gains some wht.
He is too SKINNY to play in the NBA. PERIOD.
He's a professional athlete
on a guaranteed contract, they can’t “force” him to do anything, he’s got to want to improve his body and put the time in of his own volition.
Also, Rudy may not have the frame to add a lot of strength and muscle; he’s already 25
again he said he was healthy after the surgery
he didn’t lose his mojo because of physical pain, but because of mental fragility
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
As Mortimer said earlier
Athletes are not always honest about their injuries; they don’t want to appear a wuss. Rudy was not moving very fluidly, which makes it easy to guess that there were likely some injury issues stemming from the Ariza incident. It’s difficult to recover into game shape from back surgery, even if healthy.
We do not know for sure what Rudy’s issue was last year. To claim 100% either way is incorrect. It was likely an injury issue combined with frustration.
BEdge had a great article
about the procedure that Rudy had done, and in it the doctors interviewed said that patients can bounce back almost immediately. In fact, the informational video of the procedure had a patient shooting hoops the following week.
It was a very minor operation, and if there’s been an effect on his game, it’s in his cabeza.
There exists a quality which is nameless.
I wonder who he would play for
1) The team has to be a winner
2) In a major market
3) He’s got to start or play HEAVY minutes
Who does that leave? Chicago? Maybe Dallas?? Is that really it?
I guess D-Wade could play point, but who does Miami have to trade? Do we trade him to a potential super team for draft picks?
In KP I trusted!
Seriously,
I’ve been soured to Spanish athletes because of our experience with the Minute Men (Sergio, then Rudy)—all balls, no brains. Claver can kiss the Blazers goodbye (and I can continue to wish they’d picked Beaubois).
I hope the Dutch open up a spliff on their culos in South Africa today.
There exists a quality which is nameless.
for 2011-12
Blazers have to pick up that team option by October 31, 2010.
My preference would be to try and move him in a package deal this summer, but I’m not going to trade him just to trade him. If we don’t, then tell him he’s expected to show up for camp just like everyone else. Then, let him rot on the bench all year and all the next one too.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Good luck with that. Then he would just take the 1 year NBA suspension and keep playing in Spain.
And any GM can eat his shorts that a Spanish top 3 club would make an attractive offer for Rudy – even including a nice buyout to offset PA’s costs.
He couldn't play until contract is up, right?
Even if suspended, I thought his NBA contract kept international clubs from signing him. No?
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
Not necessarily. Jason Williams signed a multi-year deal with the Clippers, then didn't render services, and was suspended for 1 year. Last season he was back on the Magic.
Depending on where Rudy signs, as said above the team also could offer PA an unlimited buyout to give him free. There is no CBA restricting say Barcelona from only paying 500k towards that. Or Madrid.
In a few other leagues they might not even give anything about what the NBA says and just let him play. In Turkey a player got suspended, and then tried to play in the jersey of one of his teammates earning him a longer suspension ;-) Then he went to Germany and just continued there – even in international games. He made it to the Eurocup finals vs. Victor Claver’s team.
It’s more likely Rudy will want to keep everything in order and just play out his contract or get traded, but I wouldn’t want to be the lawyer trying to force him to do anything.
So make him serve a suspension for poisoning the well
He looks tired. Maybe he could use the stinking rest.
In KP I trusted!
he could play in Spain for free with his buddies during his time off, next year
but FIBA wouldn’t allow hm to sign a new pro contract until Portland let him out of his NBA deal
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Just the standard Portland dogma
of find the best player available given your needs and pursue them regardless of their situation. Maybe the Jazz will match quickly and spare us the drama. OK, they won’t. But Summer League will be enough of a distraction – for me, at least.
paying $5 mil a year for a starting shooting guard doesn’t seem like all that big of a stretch for them especially since they don’t have Boozer or Korver
Well, up until the Jazz received a trade exception for Boozer it looked like they’d have to choose between using their MLE on Matthews or finding another big man besides Millsap, Fesenko and a recovering Okur. but now it looks like they can keep Wes and upgrade their frontcourt, too
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
not sure, but they've got a 17 mil trade exception
so whoever it is, he will be well paid and probably talented
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Good point. The exception is large and of course flexible.
But they better jump. The good ones are drying up.
In KP I trusted!
Can you sign a FA with a trade exception?
Or does it have to be used in a trade (one player only).
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
One player at a time
Some teams have TPEs worth $15 million and more right now, and could well split that on 2-3 players. But only one can come in a trade at a time. Similar to the MLE, which can also be used in smaller portions if a team should wish to do so.
Only the anyway rarely awarded injured player exception can only be used for 1 and only 1 replacement player making up to half as much as the injured player.
I'm missing something here
How can Utah use the Trade Exception to sign a FA? Wouldn’t he still count against the cap above and beyond the Exception? I thought the Exception had to be a player coming from another team?
Sorry, confused.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 10, 2010 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions
this is true.
Trade exceptions CANNOT be used to sign free agents. However, they can be used to negotiate sign-and-trades (as in, Team X re-signs Free Agent Y, then trades him to Utah for a trade exception).
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
So we could (in theory)
be doing this so we can trade him BACK to Utah for their trade exception?
Interesting.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Jul 11, 2010 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Thats questionable
Paul Allen’s loves him & Pritchard wanting to move Rudy may have irked him?
Aldridge is overpaid.
by IndustrialRevolution on Jul 10, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
That doesn't add up
Paul Allen just signed off on full mid level contract for a 2/3. If PA was so high on Rudy there’s no way this offer sheet gets “offered.”
If PA was so high on Rudy
Jason Filippi said PA considered Rudy to be “untouchable, like Roy” when he was interviewed back in March. A lot of things have happened since then, and few have been positive re: Fernandez. I was hopeful that Rudy’s poor showing against the Suns would turn the owner’s heart against the Spaniard, and if the team’s pursuit of guards in the draft and free agency is any indication, it has
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
There's been an ocean of water under the bridge since March
Either Rudy just isn’t made for playoff basketball, or he was sandbagging in the playoffs because he want’s out.
Win-win
If the Jazz don’t match we get a solid young player. Pretty big deal but you have to overpay for restricted free agents (otherwise the other team will just immediately match).
If the Jazz match then that leaves them with less flexibility to go after other players. Either way it’s a win for us.
It seems a given that the Jazz will match
Is this a favor for the agent or an attempt to tweak the Jazz?
Matthews made less than a million last year as an undrafted rookie.
I heard he asked for the MLE from Utah, and they told him to go find it somewhere else. The Jazz will likely match, but they are going to have to pay a lot more for him than they want to pay. But with the loss of Boozer and Korver, the Jazz have roughly the same payroll as the Blazers right now so they can match and still stay way below the luxury tax threshold.
Regardless, he is getting paid like a top 3 first round draft pick. Not bad for a second year guy who wasn’t even drafted.
Where'd you hear he asked for the MLE? That's big news.
Not disputing that you did, but I’d like to see a link or something.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
From the start of free agency, Matthews’ camp was believed to have told the Jazz it would take a full midlevel deal to re-sign him. With that as the only option they were presented, the Jazz suggested Matthews find an offer elsewhere.
http://sltrib.com/sltrib/sports/49907340-77/jazz-matthews-offer-williams.html.csp
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
New to the Dunk? Read the Manifesto.
The Jazz match this offer.
There’s no way they let him go. Especially 5mil a year. He’s really good.
tweak the jazz
for the second year in a row. :)
no way they don’t match, and probably no coincidence that this offer was announced very shortly after the announcement that korver is going to chicago.
I HOPE THE JAZZ MATCH THIS
I don’t think this guy is going to fit in well since he would only receive 15 mins at most coming off the bench. Batum should play at least 38 mins and Roy should play about the same if not more.
*** PHIL KNIGHT IS A GENIUS ***
what season has batum not missed time in due to injury in his pro career?
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!
Can always use a tough-nosed defender at a position where we have no defenders.
No offense Brandon Roy.
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
by T Darkstar on Jul 10, 2010 2:56 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
As much as I have disliked the Jazz for the past 2+ decades
Barring (whats left of) free agency, It seems like they might be rebuilding. With Matthews (potentially) on his way out, are the Jazz contenders in the west?
If not, I will miss the bit of rivalry we have had with them for a while (except for the four game sweep this past season.)
Utah is still going to be good
Miilsap steps in to Boozer’s starting spot and they barely skip a beat.
They made it to the second round with Okur and Kirelenko, out or playing hurt. They also got a big fat trade exception for Boozer on his way out the door to the Bulls.
by upper left corner on Jul 10, 2010 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions
W.W.K.P.D
What would KP do?
"With the first pick of the 2007 NBA draft, the Portland Trail Blazers select: Greg Oden from Ohio State University"
that's no longer relevant
but the Blazers will hire their next GM this week, and talk to other FAs and their agents down in Vegas like they did last year. They could also continue to lay the groundwork for future trades with NBA execs who will all be convened at summer league
KP should be there too, handing out resumes
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Just warning you:
If the new GM sucks, I reserve the right to give you static for your cavalier attitude towards KP’s firing, and I will be giving it to you for years to come ;-)
by upper left corner on Jul 10, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I will gladly kiss PA's wallet (provided I get 10% of what's inside).
by upper left corner on Jul 10, 2010 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Cavalier or devil may care, it really doesn't matter
This reminds me of the scene early in the Shawshank Redemption where Dufrane is asking the name of the fat guy who was beaten to death the night before. Hank Williams fan said “it doesn’t matter what his name was, he’s dead”
KP fans can keep a candle burning for him as long as they want, but he ain’t comin’ back and I’m moving on. There are a few blind spots in the Blazer’s scouting department, and I’m hoping that a new set of eyes will be able to compensate for them, beginning next week
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I think you are (continuing) to miss my point.
Basic math:
If there are 30 teams, there are 30 GMs.
I can’t think of more than 2-3 guys (Buford, Presti) I would rate higher than KP;
Given these facts/assumptions, it stands to reason that the Blazers are far more likely to higher a GM who is worse than KP than they are to hire one who is better.
I am partly upset that KP got treated badly, but I am far more angry with PA for making a lousy business decision that I see as reducing the teams chances of having a parade. It isn’t about KP, it is about winning.
by upper left corner on Jul 10, 2010 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think it's so obvious that it was a lousy business decision
Outside the draft, KP hasn’t shown much ability to make deals to better the team. We’ve been riding the “deep team primed for a 3 for 1 deal” for close to three years now, and no such deal ever got done.
I view KP much the same way I view Nate – PERFECT guys for turning a 20-win roster into a 50-win roster. But are either one the guys to turn a 50-win roster into a 60-win title contender? The jury is still out on both of them, and KP had his chances and thus far has come up empty. His not-great perception around the league certainly can’t help him get deals done.
I’m kind of the opinion that KP made some mistakes here – both within the organization and among his peers through the league, and that those mistakes probably made it much more difficult to perform his job well going forward. Nothing but a change will fix that. My guess is he learns from those things and doesn’t repeat them in his next gig, where he will be successful.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
I'm also not sure KP is replaceable
but I quibble with the idea that KP didn’t do much outside the draft.
1) he traded spare parts for Camby, and resigned Camby
2) he got Roy and LMA signed long term – that after trading for both of them (giving up Tyrus Thomas, Khryapa, Telfair, and Ratliff to do so)
3) he brought in Miller
4) he didn’t trade away any of the core – properly letting the cake bake
5) he landed some other decent role players in Howard, Jones, Udoka (who started quite a bit)
6) traded for Magloire, giving up only Blake (of any significance)
7) traded Zach Randolph
Pritchard’s net moves landed the Blazers under the cap, rebuilt the roster, and set the table for a long championship run while improving the team every single season until last season (and that one only derailed by injury)….
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 10, 2010 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
point is he didn't do all that by himself and we need to give credit where it's due to the "whole team" managment and players alike.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!
by faith on Jul 10, 2010 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
How many teams actually list all executives to makes sure everybody gets their credit
It’s just how it works, the GM’s typically get the credit. And it’s not like KP never gave props, he ALWAYS gave credit to his scouts and PA. I don’t get this belief that he never shared the wealth of praise and enjoyed basking in is his own glory.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
none but how many gm.s are adorned the way kp was/is.
he’s a myth and we created him. let him goooooo. he’s gone. and is going to turn NJ into the new us.
its not that he didn’t. i said WE need to…..
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!
He was not the GM for 2 or 6.
Nor was he the GM when Udoka was signed. He seems to be given credit for everything that happened while he was here, even working for Steve Paterson. Maybe that is part of the problem. He didn’t discourage people (Jason Quick) from giving him more credit than he deserved.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
He was a scout and as a scout, the reason he was made GM, was BECAUSE his ideas were so good
Maybe Patterson should give a little credit to HIS team.
In KP I trusted!
maybe.. but say'in that much is just adding to the illusion that he was greater than he was..
Either way. He Is Not our G.M. any longer.
and is replacable.. as we’re about to see.
I miss him too. But let’s not drop the ball and forget why we’re all here.
There are better people to do the job… and more likely than not the list is deeper than 3 or 4. lol
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!
Your comment seems motivated by a reaction...
to the interview Patterson gave a week or so ago where he talked about being the GM and making those deals. I was never huge fans of the Nash/Patterson regime but Patterson did end up leaving the Blazers in position to climb back out of the cellar. He became the scapegoat during a time when the organization needed one to bridge the gap between a horrible era and the dawning of a new one. I have no desire to give Patterson more credit than he deserves but the narrative of KP taking over at the 2006 draft to the point of making the deals seems a bit of a stretch with Patterson and Paul Allen involved.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
Whether real or not
He gave off the perception that he actually had a plan and with a couple of exceptions, was able to execute the plan. That’s what impressed me the most with KP’s tenure, especially in the first 2 years.
Before that, it was as if the team was just waiting for a gamble to pay off. No real direction. Willy nilly trades that didn’t make much sense. Huge contracts to those who didn’t really command the prices.
And now, this summer, it’s actually looking like Aldridge’s deal isn’t so out of whack, compared to a few of the recently signed contracts.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
Once new CBA goes through
Aldridge will be overpaid officially(Not quite as much as some of the rediculous signings we’ve seen this offseason), he won’t get what he got.
Silent Swagger.
Is the new CBA retroactive?
With it kicking in this summer, you’re saying the new CBA will alter the remainder of his contract? I thought all the contracts signed before, stood. We were going to have to sign him before the new CBA either way, so……
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
No one knows, of course.
One can assume the players will fight that part pretty hard.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
I'd throw out a wild guess
The new CBA won’t be retroactive in terms of changing how much the players actually get paid. Which is to say, all contracts will be grandfathered in. However, we might see some grandfathered contracts count differently for the cap under the new CBA.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
by dan_the_man on Jul 10, 2010 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions
no one is arguing that KP was replaced solely due to his basketball decisons
what ULC was saying is that the next GM will almost certainly be worse. I agree with douglast, the Blazers hired Nate and Kevin to rebuild the roster basically from scratch and they’ve done a super job. But does this mean they’re the best choices to take the team to the next level? Paul didn’t think so with Kevin (and there were plenty of office politics and shenanigans that contributed to KP’s firing) but so far McMillian is still the head coach.
I’m looking forward to a new GM who can flip young talent into experienced veterans, because that’s what I think the team needs the most to advance in the playoffs. The Blazer’s scouting department will continue to acquire talent via the draft without KP in the GM chair, but the new GM might just pleasantly surprise us when he takes some of that talent that KP, Mike and Chad have drafted and turn them into a deep and experienced starting lineup and bench
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
KP was the super scout, thus his tremendous drafts
He could not get the big deal done. Maybe it was PA or Miller or Nate getting in his way, but if he accept the credit, he has also got to take the heat.
In KP I trusted!
1) good move, yes
2) most the buzz seemed to be that he hindered more than helped both those extensions, and even got pulled off of working them
3) After failing on Hedo, Millsap, and Lee. Miller was the only option left, and it wasn’t just a KP move
4) agree with this, but he also failed to turn a bunch of non-core assets into proven a proven starter-quality player, letting many assets wither away in value
5) meh. nothing that 29 GMs don’t do every year
6) didn’t do this move
7) Gave him away, which I agreed with, but only PA’s checkbook made this deal happen.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
few errors, in there
2) Link?
3) Millsap wasn’t a failure – and I didn’t like the Hedo plan, even if I understood the logic. He brought Miller in on a good contract.
4) What assets withered, exactly? Rudy?
5) Hardly – the role players all filled distinct needs without overpaying. GM’s overpay all the time – and none of KP’s moves can be called irresponsible.
6) KP was the acting GM.
7) He didn’t just give Randolph away – he saved the team tens of millions – jettisoning a cancer for massive cap savings and fattened Allen’s pocketbook in the process.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 11, 2010 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Re: Magloire for Blake
Reportedly, KP hated that deal and he wasn’t the GM then. Blake was the first guy he had ever signed, he loved him, and Patterson did that deal.
Reportedly.
M—
#52
2) it was buzzing around this site, 95.5, and various other outlets at the time. I’m not going to go try and find the links now, but I’m not making it up
3) We failed to land Millsap, that was my point
4) Frye, Outlaw, Sergio, Rudy, Martell all lost trade value because we were reluctant to trade them at various times. KP turned down an Outlaw for Devin Harris deal. Sergio’s value was HUGE after his rookie year, so was Rudy’s
5) it was good work, nothing exceptional or mind blowing
6) point remains, it wasn’t his move and he was against it
7) this move cost Allen money, not saved it. Don’t forget Allen paid Steve Francis over 30 million as part of this deal
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
2)
it was “buzz” and, since speculation season is open, I feel in my bones that Patterson was feeding most of it. Patterson with an axe to grind and reputation to repair.
Not wanting Magloire counts against Pritchard? Gawd
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Jul 11, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
...
2) it was buzzing around this site, 95.5, and various other outlets at the time. I’m not going to go try and find the links now, but I’m not making it up – unsubstantiated rumor isn’t a rebuttal – but if you are right, then that might have been part of the philosophical difference between KP/Penn and PA
3) We failed to land Millsap, that was my point – landing him wasn’t the end game, since it was out of the control of the team. Failing to land him wasn’t a failure – the salient point.
4) Frye, Outlaw, Sergio, Rudy, Martell all lost trade value because we were reluctant to trade them at various times. KP turned down an Outlaw for Devin Harris deal. Sergio’s value was HUGE after his rookie year, so was Rudy’s. Outlaw couldn’t be traded for Harris because Harris had a poison pill contract. If – and that is a big IF – KP nixed the deal, it would have been for a lot of reasons other than relative value of the Outlaw vs. Harris. Portland would have been sending a big package of high upside players for a player with a big contract. The purported “high” trade value of these players was either a mirage or meaningless after rookie seasons
5) it was good work, nothing exceptional or mind blowing – but mistake free. That counts.
6) point remains, it wasn’t his move and he was against it. Link?
7) this move cost Allen money, not saved it. Don’t forget Allen paid Steve Francis over 30 million as part of this deal. Math settles this one: Randolph was owed 61 million over the balance of his contract – nearly double what was brought in.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 11, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions
can’t think of more than 2-3 guys (Buford, Presti) I would rate higher than KP;
Given these facts/assumptions, it stands to reason that the Blazers are far more likely to higher a GM who is worse than KP than they are to hire one who is better.
I understand why you feel that way, but I think you’re judging GMs mainly by the talent they acquire on the draft day, and KP will always rate highly there due to PA’s deep pockets. I’m not saying that Kevin isn’t a good judge of talent, he knows how to rank players using metrics and he has a good set of eyes to go along with the number-crunching. But the Blazers don’t need his strengths as much as they need a GM who can take young talent and turn it into veteran experience in a relatively short order of time (Roy is turning 26 this month)
If you feel that KP is in the top 5 of NBA GMs in this category, then we will have to agree to disagree
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
how would we even know?
We never got a chance to see KP lead a veteran club and keep it stocked with good role players.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
I think the disappointment is that he was never able to do that big trade he said he was after
I love Miller, but besides Miller, and Juwan as a roleplayer, who else did he acquire as a FA?
In KP I trusted!
2009 trading deadline
KP could have used RLEC (and a few Blazers who are no longer with the team) and acquired Andre Miller. If he had, then the team could very well have advanced into the 2nd round in 2009 and saved KP’s job. Or not
but Kevin chose to let the cake bake and we all know what’s happened since
That’s just one example. If you listen to national writers (not just A-Woj) who talk to agents everyday, they’ll tell you how KP overvalues his own players and won’t budge on deals. That can be good because he doesn’t make any dumb trades, or bad when he has too many of one kind of players (like wings, last summer) and doesn’t balance his roster with enough big men to weather a rash of injuries
But enough about Kevin, I know I’m not going to convince his fans that he wasn’t going to put a championship-caliber lineup together, just as much as you all won’t convince me that if he had stayed things would’ve improved between KP and PA.
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
How do you know what deals were out there for RLEC?
Maybe the deals that were reportedly there (Richard Jefferson, Vince Carter), weren’t right for the team.
You obviously know everything though, so I don’t know why I am asking this question.
we learned that the Blazers were targeting MIller at the deadline
after he signed last July. No details of the proposed deals with Philly in 2/09 were ever leaked, but it couldn’t have taken much more than Outlaw and/or Frye and/or Rodriguez and/or Diogu to make it happen. Probably just 1 or 2 of those guys plus RLEC
Then, plug Andre into a hypothetical Blazer starting lineup in March 2009 and project what a healthy Blazer team might have done. They could have finished with a better (or worse) W-L record and either faced and beaten Houston or a different WC team in the first round. That success would’ve made a huge difference re: the state of Paul Allen’s mindset heading into last summer.
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
But, you're assuming a lot.
but it couldn’t have taken
That’s an assumption. We don’t know what happened at the deadline or if it was even possible. Heck, Batum wasn’t a big prospect at that point; what if he had been the sweetener thrown in for Andre?
This remains the one stain on KP's record
Imagining a 2009-10 season with Miller already established as the starting PG would have simplified things substantially, and given us more flexibility—possibly enough that we could have competed in this Free Agency.
I’m sad to see KP go, but he wasn’t perfect. The next guy won’t be perfect either. Whoever s/he is, whatever they do—it’s cool. Just don’t trade away Roy, Batum, Oden or Cunningham and we’re fine.
There exists a quality which is nameless.
you think Andre Miller would have gotten us past the Rockets that year?
Because he would have stopped Brooks?
Because he would have kept Oden out of foul trouble?
Because he would have shut down Yao with double teams?
The only things that have happened since the trade deadline in 09 was the worst possible playoff match up for the Blazers and the most injury plagued season a 50 win team has ever seen.
I don’t see how a new GM is going to radically change the ability for the Blazers to put together a championship team especially after the Vulcans hung KP out to dry for 3 months. Why would a top end GM want to come here now? And what trade or free agent is out there that leads us to a ring, but KP couldn’t/wouldn’t acquire?
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
You're probably right.
But…
I do think Miller would have slowed down Brooks a lot. Miller is a stressful cover for a normal sized PG. He’s a nightmare for a guy Brooks size. Brooks would have been tired, beat up, and probably in foul trouble. Also Miller has done a surprisingly good job guarding him in the past. I don’t think Brooks would have had the same impact at all.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 11, 2010 1:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Miller would have been an improvement over Blake in that regard
but not a series changer.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
He could have given us an extra game easy. (He did it against the Suns)
It would have made doubling Roy harder, entry passes easier, limited the Rockets lineup options, more fast break points, more lob dunks, more composer, Blake doesn’t shoot an air ball on that last shot, etc.
To say he wouldn’t have been a series changer is too much IMHO. He could have been a series change, but maybe not, BUT… he could have been a series changer.
I’m not sure we would have won, but I would bet on it going to seven games.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 11, 2010 1:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh please NVE
Do grave us with more fabulous visions from your crystal ball you must have, to be able to know this as a fact.
ROLLEYES.
(I agree).
#52
Still no answer for Yao
Still no answer for the coaching advantage Houston had
In the end, a loss in 7 isn’t enough different from a loss in 6 to be worth mentioning as a reason KP screwed up
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
That's not what I was saying.
I never said anything about KP screwing up, even though he did have a reputation (not sure he deserved it or not) of overvaluing his players. He also tried to give Hedo the worst contract ever. I thought it was an ok idea at the time, but that would have been a pretty big screw up in retrospect.
There are some things to like about KP, but he never did anything amazing besides the draft and even then it’s hard to tell how much of it he was responsible for.
I don’t think using RLEC was a big deal though. We probably would have just gotten Richard Jefferson or Carter or someone stupid like that anyway.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 11, 2010 2:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Ain't like anyone else got a steal of a deal in a trade back when we coulda' used RLEC
Every deal was of the VC and R-Jeffff variety. That’d be lame.
Dre mighta’ been an option, but no one was really thinking he was a good fit— not even Blazers management, really, as he was option #3 after we struck out twice. We didn’t wanna lose our cap space for someone unless they were what we KNEW we wanted.
#52
sorry, that was going back to how the discussion began with two4larue
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
I'd say the Hedo near-disaster was the worst thing KP did
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Agreed.
It’s not a good thing when 70% of your fan base is screaming about what a bad idea signing Hedo is for reasons A, B, and C and then reasons A, B, and C pop up in Toronto.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:39 AM PDT up reply actions
We so smart!
I guess we DO know better than the GMs, sometimes.
GMs make a lot of mistakes. Crazy but true. Some are even the most obvious mistakes in the world.
Hedogate was easily the worst thing that can be attributed to KP.
#52
Even a collective blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I think it was a bit of Pistons syndrome
We’ve got cap space. What do we do with it?
SPEND IT YOU FOOLS!!!!
On what?
IT DOESN’T MATTER!!!!
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
I like that, "Pistons syndrome".
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Miller would've posted up
Brooks all series long until the Rockets double teamed him which would free up someone for an easy look.
it didn't take the Suns long to figure out how to stop that one
The Rockets, a much, much better defensive team would have done the same thing and still been able to put Battier on Roy.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
The Suns could only stop it because we didn't have a certain shooting guard.
Doubling Miller and leaving Nash on Rudy is a lot easier than doubling Miller and leaving Brooks on Roy.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 11, 2010 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
you don't leave brooks on Roy
you put Artest on Miller, Battier on Roy and Brooks on Batum.
Batum can’t carry the offense even with Brooks guarding him.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Maybe.
But you still can’t double anyone. The Suns could completely leave Rudy and it didn’t matter. They would double Miller almost immediately and he was forced to pass to someone who wasn’t a play maker.
That wouldn’t happen with a healthy Roy.
Also, against the Rockets they could have thrown Outlaw out there with Miller and Roy, which would make it even harder for Brooks since Outlaw can post up a little and create his own shot. It wouldn’t have been the same thing.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 11, 2010 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions
wouldn't have taken much to change the series
we lost game 3 by 3 points
we lost game 4 by 1 point
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
by douglast on Jul 11, 2010 8:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He also woulda' given us another playmaker; that lack of a secondary playmaker really hurt us.
Though, if we had used RLEC to get him (or whatever), and he helped us go deeper in the playoffs, we wouldn’t be getting him for the great deal we got for him now. We’d be paying him a hefty fee.
Not a huge deal, but if we had traded for him early, it ain’t like we woulda’ gone MUCH further. We got him now and hopefully he can help us in some capacity— as a nicely priced veteran PG or a great trade piece because his contract is very fair AND expiring.
If we got him earlier and he was good for us, we wouldn’t likely have both a nicely priced contract and a nicely lengthed one.
Possibly.
Who knows?
#52
I'm not even sure the Blazers face the Rockets in April 2009
if Miller had been added to the roster the previous Feb
BUt yes, I think Miller would’ve made a huge difference in a hypothetical Rocket’s series, alongside a healthy Roy, Oden, etc. The Blazers came within a point of beating Houston in game 4, and one “play” from Miller (instead of Blake and Outlaw throwing up wild 3 pointers, early in the shot clock) could’ve swung the home court advantage back in the Blazer’s favor
Pfund is considered a top-end NBA GM (even if Bedgers object, that’s his rep around the league) and he seems willing-enough to come here. Take your KP blinders off, he’s no longer around and not everything good that’s happened in the past 4-5 years was soley because of Kevin, and not everything bad that’s happened is because the evil Paul Allen, Larry Miller or the Vulcans
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I question the basic premise of your comment
But the Blazers don’t need his strengths as much as they need a GM who can take young talent and turn it into veteran experience in a relatively short order of time
At this point, I think the team needs at most one consolidation trade, that’s it. Until we get a chance to evaluate how our existing roster plays together, I think it is folly to do more.
I think the notion that we are going to significantly improve the team by making a big trade for a big star is very debatable. Big stars are extraordinarily expensive.
Portland has four excellent starters. Miller is a very good PG, he is aging and his game has limitations that limit our options at both ends, but he is a very savvy productive player. It would be great to land an All-NBA level PG, but the odds of it actually happening are quite small and the potential for overpaying is quite large.
I do not think bringing in a “trader Bob” type GM is the path to victory. A GM should be evaluated as much for the deals they don’t make as the ones they do. I appreciated KP’s patience and I fear the impatience of our owner and much of the fan base.
by upper left corner on Jul 11, 2010 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions
they can't just keep drafting youngsters every June and hope they all develop soon enough to win a ring with Roy
don’t swing the pendulum back to the Trader Bob era, that’s a red herring
there is a balance re: roster building. KP and his scouts are on the “add young talent side” and that’s fine—up to a point. But what Brandon and Nate need right now is veteran help, not 3 more rookies. I’m not of a mind to blow up the roster, either. But I do observe the team his collected 5-6 assets that count against the cap who probably aren’t going to contribute for years (if ever) so what would be bad about flipping them for a couple of veterans with experience? Nothing, and I think that Pfund would be more likely to do that than Kevin, if he’s hired later this week.
Don’t stress about what might happen to the roster, because changes are going to be made regardless, and the Blazer’s brass will justify them with the time-worn mantra “we’re just trying to improve the team” Whether the team actually improves or not depends on a lot of factors that are out of a GM’s control, as we saw last winter
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 11, 2010 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Balance
Camby and Miller were excellent additions, and I agree, we could use 1-2 more. But timing is critical. Ideally the team demonstrates that it is at the elite level and able to realistically compete for a Championship, that would help us attract veteran FAs interested in a ring. This is part of the cost of all the injuries last year. Portland, despite its overall talent level, is largely flying below national media radar.
Even our fan base is really divided over the basic question of whether or not we need to add “a big star.” IMO, unless we get a “no brainer deal,” it probably makes sense to see how our pieces fit together before pulling the trigger on any big deals. I think Pryz and Miller may be even more valuable at the deadline.
I guess the bottom line is that I am asking for one more year of patience. I think that KP should have been given that year as well. I think there may be less emphasis on bringing in young talent, but it is not an on/off switch. Evaluating talent and getting players at good value are still the most important aspects of a GM’s job. I look up and down the Blazer roster and I think it is hard to criticize what KP accomplished in 4 years. I will be thrilled if the next guy does as well.
by upper left corner on Jul 12, 2010 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions
i really hope we actually get matthews.
after watching quite a few Utah games last year, i fell he would be a good fit to our team. i especially enjoy his defense and what that would bring to our second team
so this will be 2 years in a row that we have screwed the jazz monetarily? their owner really must hate us.
Their fans do
They took it personally with Milsap. Now they are shouting conspiracy.
In KP I trusted!
They should be mad at the Jazz ownership and management.
The Jazz could have signed both Milsap and Matthews before we got to them. They chose to let the market determine their own player’s worth.
I would imagine that every Jazz player is having their agent put together a highlight reel for Blazers’ management. The ownership and fans may hate us but the players see the Blazers as the path to the Promised Land!!!
by Sean M on Jul 10, 2010 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Portland Trail Blazers
Helping Utah Jazz players get paid since 2009
by Sean M on Jul 10, 2010 3:20 PM PDT reply actions 10 recs
have a greenie
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
haha! Well done.
Barrett: You are going to score 35 tonight.
Bayless: Ya think?
MB off by only four, my oh my.
by thenatural007 on Jul 10, 2010 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions
somewhat puzzled
We could use a backup PF who’s a banger. We could use a backup PG, or better yet, a young PG who can be a backup but has the talent to evolve to a starting PG.
So we offer 25 mil for a backup shooting guard? I know Rudy will be gone, but what about Bayless?
Maybe they figure Bayless will be gone in a trade for Chris Paul so we need someone to replace Bayless.
But I really think what’s behind this is that Portland mgt just loves to play games with Utah.
Bayless is primarily a PG, because he can defend PGs.
I know this comes as a shock to the Baylo-skeptic crowd out there, but it remains true. IMO, Bayless would be great in a three guard rotation with Roy and Miller, or with any Miller up-grade. However, there are a fair number of match-ups where Bayless isn’t big enough to successfully defend SGs. We need someone bigger for those situations.
In addition, we need someone to play back-up SF, now that Martell is gone. I don’t think we want to count on an untested rookie.
by upper left corner on Jul 10, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Every move the Blazers have made since drafting Bayless suggest that management views Bayless as a PG.
Bayless played the “2” due to injury and as a way to get him on the floor for a bit more PT. We all know JB needs to continue to develop his PG skills, but that is more likely than him growing longer arms and height to adequately defend legit NBA SGs.
by 52therim on Jul 10, 2010 4:29 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
backup PF?
why? There aren’t any minutes available. LMA and Camby will soak up every conceivable PF minute we have, with Dante and Jeff as fill-ins. Why on Earth would we pay big money to bring in another PF?
The holes on this team are backup 2/3, and veteran PG.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
I think a "banger PF" was last year's need
I think we have it well covered between Camby, JP, and DC:
Camby is long and is an outstanding weakside shot blocker;
JP is a banger type PF;
DC is a smart who would be very effective against smaller more mobile 4s.
by upper left corner on Jul 10, 2010 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions
exactly
signing a ‘4’ would be silly.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
If Oden is healthy
If not, who we got can body Amare and Boozer types under the bucket. (Okay, less pertinent until the Finals.)
In KP I trusted!
sigh, no one remembers Joel
Przybilla: out of sight, out of mind, since December 2009
(unless he’s being thrown into lopsided trade proposals as salary filler)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I love me some Joel
But he has blown that knee out twice. We aren’t talking a break, but major dislocations with ligament tears. How likely is it he makes an impact in 2010-11, even if it is his last contract year?
Plus, Joel cannot be expected to guard these big, mobile PFs. He plays great front and help D.
In KP I trusted!
I've seen Przy defend Duncan one-on-one
and drive Timmy to distraction. Joel’s knee is well on the mend and he hasn’t had any more setbacks. He’s going to be right back in Boozer and Amare’s face next year, proving all of his doubters wrong
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
It's a baddy
If he’s back, that’s great, but it would be an INCREDIBLE recovery to make it back before the New Year.
—M
#52
yeah and even then, i wouldn’t expect him to come anywhere close to his usual effectiveness until the year after that, or maybe ever
yeah. it’s the same type of injury mcdyess got in 2001, and he has never been the same player since. plus mcdyess 26 when it happened to him, and joel is 30 going on 31
So you're saying
Bike riding or not, it’s a bad injury, and getting a good deal with his expiring contract would be a smart option? If we’re getting someone who can help us in return?
And if he does somehow come back and is still a quality player, we could sign him next season with the MLE? And since he’ll miss most of this next season most likely, it’d be a smart thing to do?
In your doctorly opinion of course.
#52
not just expiring contract
potentially insurance paid expiring contract
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Boy that's a great deal for another team
I bet we could get a really nice piece that will last us for years, and help right now, and then go and sign Joel again if he’s able to eventually come back and be decent (if he can, because this could be a career ending type injury).
I love Joel, don’t wanna see him go, but his contract is a GREAT piece to trade and he just had two horrible injuries and he’s the oldest man in the world.
#52
injury, re-injury and age
I’m worried about 22 year old Greg Oden coming back in shape and Joel is way worse for the wear.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
That and Duncan is not a banger, he is a finesse player
Joel did a great job on him staying big and forcing him further from the basket.
The guys I am talking about give you different angles.
In KP I trusted!
but Jason Quick and the Schonz say we still need a physical power forward
so it must be true
I swear, so few “Blazer experts” see Marcus as a backup 4, because Camby played exclusively at the center position after the trade (for what should be obvious reasons…) Now, Camby is no banger, but he’s an ideal big man to play alongside either Oden, LMA or Przybilla
And of course the Blazers expect Pendy and Ferno to contribute a lot more, this year
Last summer was the time when I was clamoring to flip Outlaw for a backup 4-5. KP finally got around to doing it in Feb. As soon as Marcus was extended in April, the 2010-2011 frontcourt rotation was set—especially considering the good news we’re hearing re: Joel’s rehab, this summer
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Camby is a good backup 4
He’s just credible enough with his jumpshot and is a good passer from the high post.
An Aldridge, Oden, Camby big man rotation is going to be SICK
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
by Magnum on Jul 10, 2010 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Healthy, it has to rank as one of the best.
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
the only better lineup is Gasol, Odom, Bynum
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Oden would have to beast.
To possibly overtake that trio. But he has that potential, for sure.
We’ll also have to replace Camby before they have to replace anyone.
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
If Pryz can return to form
which, I admit, is up in the air, we’ll dominate their front court in terms of defense and rebounding. Offense will be the only weakness.
That would be beauty.
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
I wouldn't say it like that
Probably not “dominate” just hold their own
to BEAT L*A (which should be everybody’s goal, around here, and not to worry about Eastern conference lineups!) the Blazers will need 4 quality big men.
Foul trouble and injuries will dictate that 3 is not enough
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
That's a pretty bold statement.
LA has three good big men.
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2010 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
and they almost couldn't close the deal this June
because of Bynum’s knee. Fortunately for them, Kendrick Perkins got hurt during game 6 and Boston had to replace him with…Sheed. L*A literally snatched that series away in game 7 because Boston couldn’t compete in the paint without big ol’ KP
The 2010 finals reinforced my point, big man depth is a good thing. If you think you have too many, try and acquire one more. Then you just might have enough to make it to game 7
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I have him backing up the 4 and the 5
I just don’t see him as ideal on Amare or Boozer. I think he would struggle with their mobility. He certainly didn’t slow Amare down inside in the playoffs.
In KP I trusted!
Yeah, people made this point when we got him
He’s great for cleaning up the mess down low, but he’s not always the most versatile or effective on-ball defender.
In other words, he was the perfect center for us, defensively, when Oden and Joel were out, and he was the perfect PF for LA, who have Kaman at the 5. However, as a full-time back-up PF/C for us, Nate will have to be creative with his rotations.
by the way
How’d a rookie get to be a free agent so fast? Don’t rookies have to play 3-4 years on a cheapo rookie contract first?
Was Matthews a walk-on or something?
he was and undrafted free agent.
no rookie contract for him.
by NEPBlazer4life on Jul 10, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
in regards to what, hair?
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
You are entitled to your incorrect opinion.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Jul 10, 2010 7:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep.
Barrett: You are going to score 35 tonight.
Bayless: Ya think?
MB off by only four, my oh my.
by thenatural007 on Jul 10, 2010 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions
9.4 ppg and meager #'s across the board
5 million dollars and 5 seasons…. I think that’s ridiculous… pray the Jazz match..
"The great charm of cats is their rampant egotism, their devil-may-care attitude toward responsibility, their disinclination to earn an honest dollar." - Robertson Davies
Don't worry
with Korver leaving and Brewer being traded last year, they will definitely match.
Get well Greg! Rip City is still behind you!
For a rookie (under the rookie-critical coach Sloan), he has very healthy numbers and a good share of success
It’s a bit long, but otherwise it really would be too easy for the Jazz to just open the checkbook and match it
He draws a ton of fouls (a la Bayless), can finish through contact at the rim, is a very good rebounder for a guard, can defend his position, and can shoot the long ball. Despite his obvious power he’s not very athletic/explosive, has some trouble dribbling with his left hand, and isn’t much of a passer.
So with Elliott Williams & Wes Matthews...
we have two poorer versions of Bayless? Nothing wrong with that if you can’t get the original. Oh wait a minute…
Wes matthews is a couple inches taller then bayless
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on Jul 11, 2010 1:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Plus, they don't really have similar games
Wes Matthews is ‘sposed to be a glue player, a role player, and not a guy who becomes the focal point of the offense when he’s in the game, like Bayless is.
#52
two poorer versions of Bayless?
Williams is the great uknown, but Matthews is by far the better shooter, has legitimate shooting guard size and is a better defender.
Getting to the line like Bayless does is definitely an elite NBA skill, but that’s pretty much his only elite NBA skill at this point of his career.
5.6 rebound rate and 2.3 rebounds a game in 27 minutes does not equal very good rebounder for a guard, no?
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 1:59 AM PDT up reply actions
The only kind of fight I can win against Norsk when it comes to basketball.
Run in, kick him with the one fact I have and run away before he has time to react. BOOM. Guerrilla basketball blog warfare.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Shouldn't you be sleeping, you handsome devil?
Or are you just letting the Playmates recover before round three?
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:03 AM PDT up reply actions
I like that version of my life!
Yeah, I should be in bed— but wait, why are you up? Where are you now?
I gotta get up and out the door by 9am, but I don’t like to sleep. Sleep is lame city dude!
#52
I'm in Portland, heading to Eugene in t-minus five weeks.
I’m just up cuz it’s my birthday! Well, WAS my birthday. But I consider it my birthday until I fall asleep.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:06 AM PDT up reply actions
What if we...are?
That makes so much sense. It’s uncanny that we’ve never realized this before. Family reunion when I finish law school? That gives you lots of time to start writing the invitations.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:09 AM PDT up reply actions
What didja do for your birthday?
Was it fun? Thanks for inviting me, by the way. That was nice of you.
#52
Well if you'd BEEN here, jerk, you would have gotten invited
and I would have given you the biggest slice of cake. But you’re still hanging out in Loserville with all the losers.
It was only alright. I had to work all day and didn’t really do anything fun to celebrate. But I’m not a big birthday guy anyway so that was fine by me.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Mortimer's reading comprehension at 2:15 AM ftw!
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:14 AM PDT up reply actions
If you're a real man you'll roll it over until 2012.
Then you’ll see who’s sorry. I’ll bludgeon you to death with complicated jargon! Or my textbooks. You know, whatever’s easiest.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:17 AM PDT up reply actions
he was an undrafted rookie
and became a major contributor…look at his playoff numbers noted above…I think most people around here agree that not only is he a decent fit as a backup 2-3 on this team behind Roy/Batum…but that his talents certainly warrant 5 mil per year in this free agent market where Darko is getting 5 mil per year and Travis Outlaw (go compare their numbers) got 5 for 35. Who knows what kind of moves this would set-up? I for one hope the Jazz do NOT match, but they almost assuredly will because they, like many on here, realize Matthews’ value as a second year player who is hard-nosed on D and shows incredible promise as an all-around contributor
by sammymohawk on Jul 10, 2010 3:47 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Want Wes Matthews Highlights??? Ask and yee shall receive :)
Check it out… I think he’d look good with vintage Rip City gear on this fall…
Gets no lift on his shot, but he buries them at a good rate. And moves well off the ball and stays within the sets without trying to do much that he can't do.
So no way he fits with us.
In KP I trusted!
by LaoTzu on Jul 10, 2010 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nate would cure him
of his “bad” defensive habits from day one.
by torsoheap on Jul 10, 2010 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
you mean his feet don't leave the floor, much
neither do Rudy’s on his 3-ball
I said last night that Matthew’s shooting motion reminds me of Cunningham’s. Very few moving parts so it should be repeatable. (Martell got a better lift but the ball didn’t find the twine, quite as often)
38% from behind the arc for a rookie bench player is very solid
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
This is a no brainer for me.
Those are highlights from his first year. I doubt Bayless’ third year highlights will look that good.
The guy can finish. Loved the Kobe block right before the end, followed by the dunk on Odom.
Romance me with that Roy rainbow shot which took flight from way beyond the arc and sailed so high that before it came back down to earth sealing the victory, it kissed the rafters and said "You're mine baby."
Woj from yahoo
Wesley Matthews has signed a 5-year, $34 million offer sheet with Portland, his agent, Lance Young, tells Y!
way bigger than we thought
Isn't that $5M to start with the regular annual increase?
Maybe we front-loaded it, too?
In KP I trusted!
Sounds like full MLE (as much as we could have possibly offered)
Get well Greg! Rip City is still behind you!
1 mil less than Outlaw
for a younger player with similar to better numbers (though the sample size is small), who has shown poise in the playoffs and plays hard nosed D? Good players cost lots of money in the NBA these days people. If we have any hopes of trading Rudy/Bayless/etc and consolodating our roster, we better not be banking on Elliott Williams and Luke Babbitt being able to step in and eat up those minutes at the backup 2-3. Depending on the master plan (assuming there is one sans GM), I think Matthews makes sense. Whether the offer is too much is debatable, but Outlaw got more in this market, that’s all I will say.
Travis got more because a team with capspace overpaid him
I wish Outlaw well, but he’s is not a 7 mil/year player, and the Net’s fans will come to realize this soon enough, in November (just like the Clipper’s fans did, in March)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I loved that article that some :LA paper published about the Clips
“Finding the 3 they’ve been looking for”
Then the same paper a couple weeks later saying everything we Blazer fans already knew about Catfish.
I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
Banning "chat speak" is like banning apostrophes. There would be no "you're" if some punk kid in the 1700s hadn't been a rebel.
by haildablazer on Jul 10, 2010 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
What motive does the agent have to lie about the amount right now?
Get well Greg! Rip City is still behind you!
He doesn't.
If the agent reported it, it’s extremely likely to be correct. No need to waste credibility here.
This is more than the max we can offer under the MLE, correct?
If so, how can we offer this amount when we’re over the cap?
Not toxic enough
C’mon Vulcans, burn a hole in those wallets down in SLC.
"Parting ways is not the end of the world. Ultimately, it may not be a bad thing at all, but right now I know the emotions are pretty raw. But it doesn't serve anyone to bash the Trail Blazers or Paul. It is after all a business of tough decisions. So, for the sake of the players, coaches and everyone who believes in Trail Blazers basketball, let's turn the page, move on and keep our eye on the prize." -KP
by The Cactus Leaguer on Jul 10, 2010 3:59 PM PDT reply actions
they had to hedge a little
for fear Utah wouldn’t match and stick Portland with a bad deal
"The great charm of cats is their rampant egotism, their devil-may-care attitude toward responsibility, their disinclination to earn an honest dollar." - Robertson Davies
I have to imagine that we're close to a deal involving a large number of guards and wings.
It simply doesn’t make sense to acquire this many players to back up the 1-3, particularly Matthews at ~7 million, if the amount is reported correctly.
word up to this sir
like I said above…depending on the master plan (assuming there is one) Matthews may make a lot of sense. A consolidated roster where Matthew’s is your 6th or at worst 7th man sounds like a very good team to me
don't overrate the rookies
while they’re nice prospects, they can’t be relied upon to be viable rotation players on a championship contender (which presumably is the Blazers intent for the coming season)
With Fernandez being presumably dealt, theres Miller-Bayless-Roy-Batum to man the 1-3 spots. Thats not much particularly considering the injury history of Roy and Batum.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
But we've spent roster spots on other guards.
Bayless-Johnson-Williams-Matthews-Fernandez-Roy-Miller to man the 1/2 positions? That’s a little heavy. Rudy is likely gone, and possibly another.
agreed
but roster spots and rotation spots aren’t the same thing. rudy is probably gone, but we already knew that
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Frontcourt depth
We have 4 very good big men when healthy. Cunningham and Pendergraph are adequate as the 5th and 6th big men in the rotation. 4-5 depth isn’t the problem unless injuries hit…in which case you aren’t contending anyway. the key concern is who is in the rotation.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Plus Camby's age and Oden's injury history
I’m not comfortable with our depth. I’d like to see Matthews signed and Rudy traded for a young back-up 4 to replace Camby eventually.
by Fuad on Jul 10, 2010 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That ship has already sailed
Blazers invested in injury risks along the entire frontline. I’m not sure how they’re going to add a 5th big man that is an appreciable upgrade to Cunningham/Pendergraph
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, we invested in an entire team of injury risks...
Andre may be our only player left standing next year.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
Even Andre can get injured
When you really think about it, the entire league is an injury risk…someone is always going to get hurt. I guess there’s something about abusing your body day-in and day-out that damages tissue…weird…
I heard on 95.5 that Pryz was already riding his bike 10+ miles a day
I don’t think you count on him, but i also don’t think you count him out. I think there is a pretty decent chance that he will be playing by the end of the year.
by upper left corner on Jul 10, 2010 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep. I just wouldn't go into the season assuming he can play
Simply leave him as a question mark, and if he comes back at full strength, we’ve got a bonus.
I think there is a pretty decent chance that he will be playing by the end of the year.
Someone said his doctor was interviewed on Courtside and said Przy is back on schedule to be ready for fall camp
it would be nice if Quick or BT Smith would catch up with Joel this summer and confirm this
Never count Przy out, he may not be as mobile as last year, but his game would still be solid even without his regular percentage of blocked shots. The Blazer’s offense suffered without #10’s robust pick-setting last year, and the interior defense was less tight without Joel in there taking charges and securing rebounds
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Details on the 'offer sheet" for Wes Matthew
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-matthewsblazers071010
From an undrafted rookie to an occasional starter with the Utah Jazz, guard Wesley Matthews’(notes) remarkable first season made another dramatic turn: He’s signed a five-year, $34 million offer sheet with the Portland Trail Blazers, a league executive with knowledge of the deal told Yahoo! Sports.
The Blazers offered their full midlevel exception in a frontloaded contract that includes a $9.2 million payday in the first year in hopes it would be too expensive for the Jazz to match and keep Matthews, the source said. The Blazers had considered making an offer to Los Angeles Lakers guard Jordan Farmar(notes), sources said, but turned to Matthews after a meeting with him on Friday.
Matthews signed the offer sheet Saturday in Las Vegas. The Jazz will have seven days to match.
The Jazz are fond of Matthews, whom they signed as an undrafted free agent out of Marquette. He played 82 games last season, averaging 9.4 points. His ability to defend on the perimeter is an important reason why the Blazers have been so resolved to sign him.
The Blazers signed Jazz forward Paul Millsap(notes) to a four-year, $32 million offer sheet last summer, but Utah matched and kept him.
By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports
by Chris Clark on Jul 10, 2010 4:05 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
wow
the Jazz may have to think twice about matching this one…compared to the Millsap fiasco I would say we have a better chance in this case, but I’m not gonna hold my breath (because I would die, the Jazz have 7 days to match)
MLE is $5.765 million
Times 5 years is $28.825 million.
Still don’t quite understand how they can offer 5 years, $34 million, even with it front loaded. Anyone up for explaining?
The MLE is just the first year.
The CBA allows for a raise each year of the contract. However, I can’t remember what percentage increase is allowed.
we secretly cut Andre Miller
and traded all our bench for Dampier cut him too
by hoodieNation on Jul 10, 2010 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
HOLY MOLY!
That’s alot of cashola. Maybe the Jazz don’t match. $9.2 million up front? It’s good to have Paul Allen as an owner. Utah must HATE us.
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
UT Does Hate us
They think we’re trying to stick it to them…
i think we are sticking it to them
by sammymohawk on Jul 10, 2010 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Paul Allen is
“given em the business” so to speak.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
I think we rate right under L.A.
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!
screw them
I’m no Laker fan but going after Fisher because of his kids cancer was low. I hope the Jazz fans hate us they are in our division and rivalries are good for sport.
Don't forget our strip clubs, not too many of those in SLC.
by upper left corner on Jul 10, 2010 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions
actually
There are plenty of strip clubs in slc, and coffee and beer. There’s even cocaine and good weed. Imagine that. … and we will never hate the Blazers or Portland as much as we hate the Lakers and LA. Anyway, I actually think the Jazz will let Matthews go. It’ll be easier to find someone to replace him as opposed to Millsap last year. Hard to believe you guys are going to pay $9 million next year to Roy’s backup. Guess it’s no big deal when your owner is Paul Allen. Such is life. Hope he does well, but I don’t see him getting half the minutes he would have gotten in Utah. Gotta take the money though.
Hard to believe you guys are going to pay $9 million next year to Roy’s backup.
Roy and Batum’s backup at the 3 (against small lineups) Matthews fills a specific role that we’ve been targeting all offseason
Wes received <25 mpg last year with the Jazz, I know that with Korver gone he would’ve probably gotten more this year in Utah, but he’ll easily get >25 if he’s on the Blazer bench, and potentially more as an injury replacement for either Roy or Batum, who have been known to miss games during the season
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
it's still 30 some million for an unproven back up
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Who has more starting playoff experience in one season than most of our team
Sorry, but second round, much?
In KP I trusted!
1 season of performance
means unproven
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
you'll have to pay that amount to acquire Matthews
I don’t see what the concern is, is there a better player that you’d rather spend the MLE on right now? Do you think that spending the money on Wes is going to prevent the Blazers from paying other players in the future
Hedo Turkoglu was experienced, would you rather that 5/50 deal was still on the Blazer’s payroll? Everybody says that Miller is too old and the Blazers need a young PGoTF, but then they go out and sign a young 2-3 and he’s unproven?
I guess people will always find something to gripe about. Look on the bight side, the Jazz may match and then you won’t have to worry about overpaying an “unproven” player. Meanwhile, the Blazers have 5-6 unproven kids already in their pipeline and their cap holds add up to about the same (if not more) than Matthews would, but most of them will average less than 5 mpg for Portland over the next 5 seasons.
Is that a good use of the Blazer’s budget?
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
It's okay, no need to overreact
30ish million is a lot to pay for a mediocre player with only one year of NBA experience. We simply don’t have enough information about him to say anything other than “unproven”. He could get better, worse, stay the same. He might have been in the perfect system for his talents. We don’t know because we only have 82 games and the playoffs to draw on.
I’m not going to debate smart basketball moves differently because we have the richest owner in sports. Just because we can outbid the Jazz doesn’t mean we should. And it wouldn’t surprise me if Paul Allen grew tired of spending for no results. We could be the Hornets in a few years looking at Matthew’s 6 million/year wondering why we ever did that. Complacency with overspending is one reason why the league is looking at a potential lockout next year.
Mike Miller is the only FA I would have offered the full MLE to. There are a handful of guys I would have offered part of the MLE or the BAE to. The Pistons taught everyone a valuable lesson last off season. Just because you have money to spend doesn’t mean you need to spend it.
Matthews is a solid pick up at roughly half the price. At this price he’s marginal at best. Aldridge is in a similar situation. I like what he does, but not at the price we’re paying.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
This strikes me as an amateur signing...
I think the Blazers’ FO employed their draft strategy here: find your target and do what it takes to get him. Only wasting PA’s money to buy extra second rounders to trade up in the first isn’t the same as giving a guy who probably wouldn’t have received more then $4m / season from other teams a five year deal for $34m; this could have harmful long-term ramifications.
Luckily, if he doesn’t pan out, he could make nice salary ballast. And the deal will decline over the years, so he should become more and more tradeable.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
We could be the Hornets in a few years looking at Matthew’s 6 million/year wondering why we ever did that
We could, but Matthews will be in his mid-20s and his mid-level contract ill still have value in a trade scenario
Hedo’s offer was a cautionary tale, so was Darius MIles. Matthew’s MLE is not even in the same ballpark, and there was no way Portland could possibly acquire him without making a max/toxic offer so I’m not going to blame them. If they had done nothing with the MLE by now they’d be taking heat for sitting on their hands, as well
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
It doesn't have to be the full MLE or nothing
a minimum contract vet works just fine. Or a contract half the size of the offer to Matthews.
Don’t scoff at 6 million/year. Those types of contracts add up quickly. No, it’s not in the same ballpark as Miles and Hedo, but it’s the same thing in principle: overpaying for talent.
Doesn’t this set off a red flag for you?
here was no way Portland could possibly acquire him without making a max/toxic offer
The only way to get a mediocre player is to grossly over pay and you’re okay with that.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
that my friend
is how the NBA works. Outlaw? Amir Johnson? Darko? These are just the deals this summer. That is why it is much wiser to build through the draft than through free agency, unless your the Heat.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
Starting at 5.765 million, you get to 5 years/34 million with the standard 8% yearly increase for teams without Bird Rights.
So this report is totally correct, it seems.
Interesting - there has to be a trade we don't know about
It’s like how astronomists find black holes – they can’t see them directly, you have to deduce form the actions of the bodies around a space.
Where is Storyteller?
Quite the opposite.
If they can make a major trade with Batum, it’s fine if Rudy stays. We’d likely be getting someone good in return.
Not Batum
Unless you count on Babbitt and Dante at the SF, or playing Roy there in a three-guard rotation.
In KP I trusted!
I'll start the chant...
CP3 CP3 CP3 CP3!!!
sigh.
by Roybot on Jul 10, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's at least Nic, if not both
Why trade Webster at 4.8 mil to sign Matthews for quite a bit more if you planned on him coming off the bench? Nic has to be getting moved, or at least the FO thinks he will be, and we all know that he wouldn’t be going anywhere unless it was in a huge a trade.
Matthews is a better player, and can adequately play two positions
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
This is true
but is it worth the extra money? I can see how Matthews+Babbit is better long-term than Martell, but is it that huge of a payoff for the money when we’re talking about back-ups?
look at the free agent market this month
you have to pay the freight, and Matthews is far from the worst offer that has been made during the last 7 days. He’s going to get a huge bump in pay percentage-wise, but he earned it out on the floor last Nov-April—which is a lot more than I can say for some of these guys who’ve been cashing in
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
The question was if for the money would we have rather have kept Martell
I love Marty, but not his game so much. Matthews is as good and has tremendous upside, and has shown he will show up in the playoffs.
Ding ding ding! We have a winner!
In KP I trusted!
I do really like Matthews, and I hope Utah doesn't match
I like just about any decent D and 3 player, actually. But I think it’s kind of making moves to make moves, and overpaying in the process. With the new CBA, he might not be worth his salary in future, as you’ll have players who replicate his skill set available at cheaper prices in the coming years. It’s not like we’re signing an All-Star.
...who is 6'5" and can't really play SF
I would like to see them limit Roy’s minutes a bit, but having 7-8 guards on the roster seems a bit excessive (Roy – Miller -Rudy – Bayless – Williams – Johnson + Matthews + Mills signed for SL + Koponen stashed).
BRoy Backup I imagine
I’m sure he’d be brought in to back up BRoy. The other (younger) guys aren’t ready to go… untested. Wes looks like a player. Looks like Rudy is gone. I agree with earlier posts though. It would be Pfun to know if there were some major moves being made :)
gasp
…. or Roy!?! (but he’s got that nasty thing w/ his contract right?)
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!
Yup no way Roy goes anywhere now that LeBrat is taken
The only guys we would have talked about moving BRoy for were LaBooooo, or DWade.
Roy isn't a SF either
I’m not feeling your “if Matthews comes then Batum must be going” take. Portland needs a backup 2 to replace Rudy, Roy has lost weight and shouldn’t be playing SF anymore, so Matthews takes care of that role against smaller lineups. There’s 25 mpg waiting for Wes behind Brandon and Nic and that’s what he received playing for Utah, last year
The Blazers already have a starting 2 and 3. What they need is a player who can backup both positions and that’s what Matthews would provide. (Nic is going nowhere but right back in the Blazer’s starting lineup, next November) 5-6 mil/year is a reasonable price to pay a rotation player, the Blazers were prepared to pay Webster nearly that much and Matthews will be a clear upgrade, especially at backup SG
The other reason to sign WM is as insurance in case Batum gets hurt again, the Blazers couldn’t go into the season with Babbitt/Cunningham as the only SF backups and force Nate to play Roy at the 3 again if Nic went down. Defending physical SFs (because Rudy “had” to play SG) has contributed to Roy’s wear and tear during the past few years. With Matthews on the roster, Brandon will be able to guard SGs exclusively, and it’s about time for that
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 10, 2010 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
You don’t pay 34 million for a fourth wing.
It’s telling me that Bayless is not going to play that much if Utah doesn’t match. Maybe Nate will cut back on Miller and Roy’s minutes, which wouldn’t be a bad idea. But McMillian needs to win as many games as possible, so I doubt he’s going to jeopardize that by sticking with his backups when the game is tight
Here we go again, the Blazers have the Jazz by the shorties, and this time Utah’s fans can’t aim their venom at KP
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Bayless plays at the position he was drafted to play. PG!!
by 52therim on Jul 10, 2010 8:04 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
yes, but so does Andre
and there was a feeling that Jerryd and Andre could play some together this year, especially against smaller backcourts. If Mathews is not matched by Utah, Wes will play most of those backup SG minutes and Rex will be right back where he was, playing 15 mpg instead of potentially 25-30 as a combo guard
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
they had to, because Roy was hurt
if Brandon’s healthy and Matthews is on the roster, Bayless is a backup PG
that’s not what he’s been hoping for, I’m sure. I’m wondering how Jerryd’s feeling about the latest Blazer news? If Wes is added to ther roster maybe Bayless would rather find a different place to play, like Rudy? Nah, Rex will just grit his teeth and work that much harder to force Nate to put him in there
that’s the kind of players who are worth rooting for
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Still, Roy to remain healthy and most productive, probably leaves time on the court
And with his style of play, inevitably, there will be injuries, but hopefully ticky tacky ones.
In KP I trusted!
"not what JB is hoping for"
I assume JB is hoping to be the starting PG in 2011-12 season. I’m hoping he earns that position by his play this year. It would also be nice if one of Mills/Johnson/Williams shows himself capable of backing up CP3…. er, I mean JB.
by 52therim on Jul 11, 2010 8:17 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
that would OK with me
but if he’s only playing 10-15 mpg this coming season, it’s going to continue to stunt his development towards that goal
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Bayless will get enough minutes at PG to help the Blazers decide whether to pick up the option on Andre or not.
This signing sure suggests that Blazers management have no plans of keeping Bayless as a 2. He develops into the PG they envision him to be or he’s gone. I applaud that decision. I never heard management talk of playing JB with Miller. He got minutes at the 2 due to injury and poor play. Imo it was never the long-term plan.
by 52therim on Jul 11, 2010 12:32 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree with you here
this shows me that the Blazers have another of faith in Bayless going forward as the teams starting PG. THis coming year maybe difficult, but once Bayless starts, and Miller is gone, then Mathews playing time is easily slotted in.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
With Korver and Brewer gone, they gotta match, don't they?
Get well Greg! Rip City is still behind you!
It'll be very tough on them to match, and very tough on them not to match
I expect them to match, but wait until the last hour like they did with Millsap last year.
I'd be shocked if Jazz didn't match
A rookie SG good enough to break through under Sloan- who can shoot the 3, defend the perimeter, and drive to the basket…those guys aren’t easy to find. Matching Millsap was the correct decision. Matthews deal is cheaper on average. They’ll match.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions
it will create the ultimate dichotomy of athleticism and non-athleticism when Juwan takes the court with Wade and Lebron
it'll still be funny
watching their team D…Juwan will just be conceding fouls when perimeter guys break through the outer layer…I think he had the highest % of “just trying to foul” fouls last year when compared to how many times he tried to actually contest a shot at the top or strip someone on the way up
I hope Oden doesn't head for South Beach...
When he’s up for “renewal”. He’s be perfect down there if he could keep it together.
He'll be a restricted free agent.
Not only could Portland match any offer, Miami can’t offer him much anyway.
If Portland re-signs him, he’d likely be 5 years away from another free agency. And if he’s successful and Paul Allen still owns the team, they’ll likely be willing to max him again.
Good!
Oden would be a kid in a candy store down there… and a force in the paint for those guys. Let’s hope he’s just a force in the paint for us. I hope he’s getting stronger every day- He deserves a full season.
Utah will match for sure. This just keeps Blazer fans occupied until we get a new GM.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 10, 2010 4:47 PM PDT reply actions
At least we finally have something to talk about though... right?
I was getting soooo bored (read worried) that we were waiting around. Still seems quiet though. This makes me think that something must be in the works. Me thinks Blazer Mgmt. has to be careful not to do anything too upset our potential for next year (provided Oden and others stay healthy). We should be damn good if we’re healthy (with or without any moves)
But it does reveal part of the front office's thought process
It doesn’t look like they are counting on Bayless to be a backup SG. Maybe they already know that the new GM wants to flip Jerryd? Their interest in Farmar and Chalmers is also telling re: #4
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Reading on the Utah site
Apparently if they match it uses their own MLE, which means they can’t sign any other free agents (unless it is for very low or at minimum). That will not get it done in this market. Matching this contract would hamstring their team because they need players (since they are loosing several). There might be good free agents available after the larger pieces fall into place. What does Utah do? Oh and they are pissed at Portland. They want to take Oden when he goes restricted free agent.
by Sonic Boom on Jul 10, 2010 4:48 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I found that part especially hilarious
Either Oden will pan out this year and we will resign him before he EVER hits RFA or he will get injured again, hit RFA, and either we get him for cheap or someone take a big risk in paying him a lot.
I’m sorry Utah, we aren’t the ones letting good players hit RFA to “test the market” over and over and you have no one to blame for getting burned for losing them or paying tons for them but yourselves. This is a competitive market and that style of “wait and see” with contracts is almost always a losing proposition.
What was the last player that mattered that was left to test the market and no one bit so they were forced to sign cheaper with their team?
"We Believe" - Rudy Fernandez
the only way we can prevent Oden from becoming a RFA
is to extend his contract by October 31 – essentially before the season start. So we have to make that call without seeing him play this year OR he WILL be an RFA next summer
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Also, we'll likely know more about Oden's status in a month or so, after a new GM is in place.
Either way, like you said, it’s unlikely we’ll be in a state that we want to keep Oden but lose him, unless management royally messes up.
Well, we do have two options to keep him from going RFA
1) Oden signs a qualifying offer for a little less than 9 million, or 2) we sign him to a max offer, with no options or incentives.
the qualifying offer is what makes him an RFA
he can still shop himself around for a deal we can choose to match
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
he WILL be an RFA next summer
But next July the league will be in shutdown mode (probably for months) and when the dust settles who knows what the RFA rules will be
I think the Blazers will try to extend Greg this fall, if he stays healthy and looks good during preseason. Paul needs to know that he has Oden secured, going forward—there’s too much at stake to leave his status unresolved, while the new CBA is being negotiated
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
right
I purposely avoided the concept of different rules and the lockout next summer. If you recall, I talked about the possibility that RFA might not even exist in the new CBA. with that uncertainty, I’d be inclined to offer Oden a reasonable extension and hope we can get him to agree to it.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
knowing how Paul felt about retaining Camby, this spring
I feel pretty confident that Greg will be extended before Halloween—unless he suffers another major injury, which would really suck
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
trade exemption
they have a large one that they can use to add another player (via boozer)
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Apparently all the teams that needed it have already cashed in
It’s not so easy to trade an exemption – the Blazers couldn’t. And you usually just get crap contract back which has been Utah’s problem forever
yeah
Its not as good as free agent cap space, just saying that using the MLE on Matthews doesn’t prohibit them from making another significant move. I’d think with Okur hurt and Boozer gone, they’d consider using the trade exception on a big man.
Otherwise, if they let Matthews walk (which I highly doubt) they could deal for a wing (like Rip Hamilton) with the trade exception and try to find a cheap big with the MLE money…a far less attractive course of action.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
but even with a healthy Okur
Millsap and Fesenko aren’t enough for the Jazz to win the division, Boozer was a big part of their offense and they really don’t have a 4th big man of note
this feels like a big game of chess and Portland has taken a lot of Utah’s pieces off the board with these toxic FA offers
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
yeah but who's his backup?
Paul is what 6’7-6’8? He’s a good player, but he’s no Boozer
The Jazz will not match up with the Blazers (or L*kers, or Nuggets) front line nearly as well next year if they don’t add another decent PF this offseason
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
not actually true
Andrei Kirilenko can effectively play PF. He spent most of his minutes there during his All-Star season of 2004, and he keeps weight/strength better now than he did then. He will get much of the backup PF time.
The Jazz won’t match up well with the Lakers in any case.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
The Jazz won’t match up well with the Lakers in any case.
Or the Nuggets. Or the Blazers. You’ll be OK against the Thunder’s front line
I’m not a fan of small lineups or stretch 4s. You may remember the last time the Jazz played Portland? (Boozer pushed Camby in the back, grabbed a missed shot and scored at the buzzer, foiling Portlands 25-point comeback) The reason Sloan won that game was he put Fesenko and Boozer in the lineup together and the two of them abused Aldridge, Camby and Howard on the boards in the 4th quarter. (Utah even scored off of their own missed FT throws!) Fro a Blazer fan’s perspective, it was disgusting. But it won’t happen again when Portland has Oden and Przybilla and the Jazz are without Boozer. Fesenko will get into foul trouble and then where will you be? Okur, Millsap and AK-47
Jerry can get into Nate’s head pretty good on the sidelines (and coach circles around him, to be honest) but I think that McMillian could navigate his way through to a victory with that front court size advantage
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
That's why we need a banger 4, to fight strong front lines
You made my argument for me. Neither Camby nor LMA give us that. I don’t know if it was KP or PA or who, but besides Oden, we now seem averse to acquiring that wide-bodied 4.
In KP I trusted!
meh
it’s impossible to construct a team that addresses every possible scenario. If we get a banger 4 with the MLE then we don’t address another concern. Right now we have a great big man rotation, perhaps the 2nd best in the league. We simply have bigger needs elsewhere on the roster.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
a banger 4?
now that would be wasting assets. Paying MLE level money for a guy to sit on the bench behind LMA and Camby would be silly when we have much more pressing needs IN the regular rotation.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
but besides Oden, we now seem averse to acquiring that wide-bodied 4.
I’m counting on Joel to provide that additional inside toughness, like he’s done for most of the last 5 seasons in a Blazer uniform
While you can’t play Oden and Przy together, there’s no reason Camby and Przy couldn’t play the 4-5
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
How can we count on Joel when we don't know when he'll be healthy?
He had a horrible injury. We all hope he can come back, but it’s probably unrealistic to hope for a return to normal-Joel quality play this season.
Joel has knee problems.
I would bet money he doesn’t play much next season (if at all) and certainly not close to the same level.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 11, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't see that we need to spend MLE money on a wide body
BAE or vet minimum might get us there. I DO think a banger is something we should be able to pull out of the toolbox, especially in individual games and individual series matchups.
In KP I trusted!
The contract is the most frontloaded it could be under CBA rules. It's Millsap, the sequel.
note for salary cap pedants: If $9.2M upfront payment to Matthews is correct, total for deal is only $32.7M, not $34M.
Elitism - It's lonely at the top. But it's comforting to look down upon everyone at the bottom.
by thankyouforblaze on Jul 10, 2010 4:59 PM PDT reply actions
Frontloading -- not a threat
The Jazz just lost the salaries of Boozer and Korver. They’re facing a bit of a rebuilding year no matter what. I think they would actually PREFER to frontload the contract and make Matthews a bargain in the years to come.
Next year, with Kirilenko’s deal expiring, they could be players in free agency (though SLC will never land a Carmelo type A player, they could get some Okur)
Jazz will match. This is a waste of time other than keeping the Jazz from getting a huge bargain.
First, it's not a waste of time if it ties Utah's hands, and we aren't planning other offers anyway.
Second, don’t forget Utah’s ownership is in flux, which may be related to why they’re struggling to hold on players (it’s not known for sure though).
this has no effect
Utah can still acquire players via trade. Also, they can still negotiate with free agents, since they’re in the position of power to decide if Matthews stays or not. The Blazers are held up here, not the Jazz. Besides, its 7 days…probably not a huge deal.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions
the blazers gain very little from this
in the meantime, they can’t make an offer to someone like Farmar without letting him know he’s a 2nd choice (thereby reducing the players interest in coming)
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions
If this prevents an offer to Farmar, I'm absolutely thrilled at today's offer.
by Timmay! on Jul 10, 2010 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
fair enough
the point is not about farmar but player acquisitions in general
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I suspect Portland didn't plan to offer to anyone else until they had a GM anyway
And they’ve got a week of interviews coming up. If they get him, great, if not, they were in a holding pattern anyway, and they forced Utah to pay extra for their own player.
You're probably right.
Nothing gain and nothing lost most likely…i’ll still call that a waste of time.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
this was my thinking, as well
the only risk of making the Matthews offer is that it would prevent them from going after another wing like Mason or Bell this coming week. If both of those players sign elsewhere and Utah matches, then the Matthews offer was a tragic roll of the dice
but the timeline to hire Ferry or Pfund is next Friday, and the Blazers will have plenty of opportunities to schmooz with the agents and other league execs in Vegas, next week. I’m not going to grip until there’s something to really grip about (it doesn’t look like they had a real shot at wooing Mike Miller or Kyle Korver, or maybe the front office is only looking at youngsters, for now) At least they’re not sitting on their hands, or making a crazy 5-for-1 trade before the new GM is even hired
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
This offer answers a couple of questions...
-Paul Allen is clearly willing to pay the luxury tax to make this team better.
-The team does have somebody who can make big decisions even without a GM in place
-Jazz fans have a bit of a complex… like we would do something like this just to screw with them.
It also raises the question of whether the Blazers and/or Jazz would consider a deal to move Joel and/or Rudy in S&T for WM?
by 52therim on Jul 10, 2010 5:10 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
hmm
when has PA shown that he wasnt willing to pay the tax? this question has been answered numerous times since he took ownership. I can also sympathize with jazz fans…we are out to screw them.
"There was a time when this blog was for intelligent BASKETBALL fans. It has unfortunately become O-Live 2…" ~Ilikeemall
"Did they really expect me to bow down to Jesus?!?" ~Sophia
"At first glance, I saw a fairly unremarkable penis." ~Sophia on Greg Oden
by Philthyanimal on Jul 10, 2010 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Utah's cap issues were their own doing.
If you don’t want cap issues and players poached don’t be stupid and cheap in the first place.
I'm just not crazy about player nick names...
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jul 10, 2010 5:38 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
epic fail
but Paul did the same with Zach and Darius and the Blazer’s owner eventually dug his way out from under those albatross deals
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I would add Damon, too
PA got more money. I wonder how much he’s paid in total luxury tax on the backs of those players?
In KP I trusted!
conservative estimate
Allen has dropped a billion dollars on the Blazers, in 22 years
thank you for you basketball jones, Mr. Allen
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
when has PA shown that he wasn’t willing to pay the tax? this question has been answered numerous times since he took ownership.
Things have changed up in Seattle. The worldwide economic downturn has reduced Paul’s net worth considerably; his sister and the Vulcans have been making noise about the team needing to “break even” for several years, now. I think Allen wants to spend as much as he can, but the team has to be threatening to reach the finals before he can really “go for it”
The fact that they haven’t advanced past the first round yet is making the owner impatient, because the finances have been in limbo (there’s only so much blood you can squeeze out of a turnip during the regular season—it’s the extra post season home games and merchandise sales that tip the balance and help increase the payroll—without putting the franchise deeper in the red)
If the Blazers start playing games in late May and June again, we’ll see the old Paul again. Until they do, he’s going to make life miserable for the front office and coaching staff, as we saw with KP. Expectations are high “one round and out” is not an acceptable outcome
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
while i agree...
the poster said it answered his question that PA is willing to pay the luxury tax. I was just saying that in all my time as a Blazer fan, there has never been a time where PA was insistent on not paying the tax if the time was right. There was no need to during the KP era as we were just rebuilding…but whenever a push was needed to put the team over the top, PA has delivered. Even considering the significant drop in his net worth, PA will still probably pay the luxury tax considering he was ok with opening his pocket book in the draft and waiving Gomes and what not.
"There was a time when this blog was for intelligent BASKETBALL fans. It has unfortunately become O-Live 2…" ~Ilikeemall
"Did they really expect me to bow down to Jesus?!?" ~Sophia
"At first glance, I saw a fairly unremarkable penis." ~Sophia on Greg Oden
by Philthyanimal on Jul 11, 2010 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions
No S&T
I’m pretty sure that since he has signed the offer with the Blazers, a S&T deal is off the table. Either they match it and he gets those terms from Utah using their MLE, or they don’t and he gets those terms from Portland using the Blazer MLE. The time for negotiations are over.
Now if Utah wanted Rudy in return and the Blazers were happy dumping him, Utah could offer some crappy future 2nd rounder and use their small TPE to take on Rudy, but that would be like giving them the 2nd middle finger. Not only did we take your player, but we’re now giving you our sloppy seconds for free.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
Couldn't Utah match him.
And then trade him to us?
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
Interesting.
Due to a guy not being able to be matched as an RFA and then traded in a certain timeframe or something?
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
Yeah, if matched he can't be traded back to us by ANYONE for 1 year.
i.e. Utah couldn’t trade him somewhere else and then he can’t be traded back to us even then.
Also he can’t be traded without his consent for 1 year either.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 10, 2010 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions
This does sound familiar.
Someone mentioned this about Milsap last year as I recall. So many rules.
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
so does that mean Utah can deal Millsap to us in a couple of weeks?
Sweet! Let’s start putting some trade proposals together ;^)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
That's true. It would not be a true S&T
But the teams could agree to a deal where Utah does not match the offer and we move Joel and/or Rudy for their TPE. Becomes similar to a S&T except salaries don’t have to match. It wouldn’t shock me to have Utah propose something like this.
by 52therim on Jul 10, 2010 8:23 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Paul Allen is clearly willing to pay the luxury tax to make this team better
I agree that using their full MLE is an encouraging sign in this regard, just remember if things don’t go well that Portland could still make a deadline deal and shed an expiring contract and slide back under the luxury tax threshold so Allen doesn’t have to write another LT check to Uncle Stern
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
It's really hard as a Utah fan to NOT see this as a pure extending of the middle finger to the Jazz.
I understand that Fernandez may be on his way out, and Roy is capable of playing PG, but still. From our perspective, Matthews is a huge fan favorite and a great asset, but even we didn’t think he was worth $7M/year on the average. Add to this the precedent of the Millsap deal from last year (another case of overpaying an admittedly “toxic” contract for a player who wouldn’t be starting any time soon) and you can’t blame us for feeling picked on. One such deal is “just business.” Twice feels a lot more personal.
I honestly don’t know what the Jazz will do. On one hand, this is just plain too much money for Matthews. On the other hand, there aren’t any better options out there, and the trade exceptions the Jazz own are going to be hard to utilize in any case. Also, given the fact that Carlos Boozer and Kyle Korver just strolled out the door, Jazz fans are up in arms about seeing their team get decimated. Morale is very low, and losing Matthews may cripple it for many people. (Not least of which is one Deron Williams.)
My thoughts. At the moment, though, I’m still very frustrated, and even after reading through this thread, I remain unconvinced that this makes any significant basketball sense or financial sense for Portland. Thus, we’re left with the middle finger.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
by Shums on Jul 10, 2010 5:17 PM PDT reply actions 7 recs
millsap looks like a bargain now
matthews will too. guys who can defend, hit 3s, and drive to the rim aren’t easy to find.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't disagree.
Millsap especially looks like a bargain given that he will be the starting PF for the Jazz next year. That would not have been the case for Portland. Same thing with Matthews — he will start for us but not for you, barring some dramatic roster moves.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
he might not start
but he’ll probably close. Miller/Bayless/Roy are all best with the ball in their hand. None of them are great defenders. Matthews fits a major need.
Also, Millsap probably would have started once PBilla and Oden got hurt. The Camby trade never happens….different world. Millsap fit great with Aldridge.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Mathews would never start for the Blazers
not over Batum and certainly not over Roy
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
how about over miller
matthews fits next to Roy much better
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions
then we have no point guard
Miller is a good distributor
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Roy runs the offense
Distributing PGs don’t win NBA titles. Batum and Roy can pass. Matthews can shoot and drive. You don’t need a traditional PG to win.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Miller and Roy run the offense
Batum and Mathews aren’t distributors. It would be incredibly easy to stop that line up. Pressure Roy when he has the ball (double teams, pressing) to make him give it up. Without a 2nd guy to run the offense or distribute the ball the offense will fall apart. Then there are problems with defense. We don’t want those guys guarding PGs for extended periods.
A Roy, Matthews, Batum line up might work in short bursts, but not as a starting/main lineup.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
I thought I've remembered.
Both Mathews and Batum being more than adequate to guard PGs. At least as good as Miller is.
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
The biggest issue I see is that a team would full-court press, and there wouldn't be enough ballhandlers to get it up the floor.
Offensively.
I agree that I don’t like it much.
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
The only thing that can save this lineup offensively.
Is if Nic really develops serious ballhandling abilities we don’t see consistently at this point.
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
full court press?
because that happens so often in the NBA
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Scouting happens.
I don’t care if it’s a full court press (though that will happen). It will be backcourt pressure on the ballhandler and we wouldn’t be equipped to handle it.
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2010 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Better equipped now than in 2008-2009
and it didn’t seem to bother the Blazer backcourt back then
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
but then you don't have them guarding 2s and 3s
That’s always the problem with the “let Batum guard the other PG” line we heard a lot last season. Ok, Batum is on the PG, now who is guarding their best wing player?
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Batum should always guard the best 1-3 player period.
Then Mathews could guard either the PG or the second best wing player. Roy could have the third. I guess I don’t see the defensive downside of this lineup. Mathews and Batum provide some versatility in who they can guard. Roy does too, actually, but he’s just not as good.
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
We won't see a Roy, Batum, Matthews lineup
We just don’t use a PG-less lineup.
We won’t have the luxury of 2 good defenders on the perimeter. It’s either Batum or Matthews (if he signs). Putting one or the other on the best 1-3 guy leaves us mismatched and vulnerable. I’d rather just stick Batum on the best 2 or 3 for the majority of the time.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
We did see this
At times Fernandez was used in the backcourt with Roy. The problem was he was so bad at D that there was no one for him to guard. Offense wasn’t the problem, it was defense. Matthews erases that…but admittedly doesn’t have the handle that Rudy does.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions
not more than 30 minutes total for the whole year
it’s not a line up we use or will use with Matthews instead of Rudy
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
only because Jazz will match
If they’re paying Matthews 6 or 7 M per, he’s probably going to play at least 30 minutes. The Blazers biggest weakness is perimeter D and Matthews addresses that. The loss of a multiple “distributors” on the floor is a minor price to pay.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Roy plays ~36
Batum hopefully 30 this season. That leaves 30 total minutes at the 2/3.
We still have Bayless, Rudy and Babbitt competing for those minutes in addition to a Matthews signing. And Nate seems to be a big fan of timeshares. I don’t think we’ll see Matthews get more than 25 minutes, probably less.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
A few assumptions
A. Rudy would be traded if Matthews is signed.
B. Babbit, as a rookie, shouldn’t be assumed to be handed any significant minutes.
I’m saying that Matthews poaches some minutes from PG because our existing duo has some major deficiencies and the idea that you need a distributor at PG is patently false, as evidenced by the roster composition of most NBA champions.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, Rudy is probably gone if Matthews is signed
that still doesn’t give Matthews 30 minutes/game though
A team may not need a distributor PG to win, but no team plays for significant stretches without a PG entirely.
A no PG lineup in a novelty that will only work in short bursts.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
It really depends on your definition
Many teams have won with non-distributing PGs (e.g. Kerr, Terry) Even Fisher wasn’t used as a traditional PG.
Its not a novelty if you can guard the other end.
Miller and Roy are too redundant to be effective together long turn. THAT is the novelty act.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions
there's a difference between "non traditional" and lacking a PG entirely
Miller isn’t the best fit next to Roy, but a no PG lineup is an even worse idea. There’s a reason no team in the league runs a PG-less lineup for significant minutes.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
I'd bet that.
The Miami Heat will play significant minutes without a normal PG this coming season.
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
yep
If you’re going to run most of your offensive sets through a SG or SF, you mostly just need your PG to hang around the 3 point line a la Mo Williams, Fisher, Kerr.
Its true that you want a second guy who can create/distribute, but thats an ideal. Batum’s D gives the Blazers the option of doing unconventional things.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Wade and James are all the creators you could use!
They just need someone who can guard PGs.
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
but you're not only saying "no" to a 2nd guy who can create and distribute
but also to a 2nd guy who can handle the ball and initiate the offense. Batum and Matthews can’t do those things. We would be relying entirely on Roy to handle the ball, set up the offense, distribute the ball and do most of the scoring.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
I think thats OK
Not for 30 minutes a game, but for some stretches (for example at crunch time) it would be fine to have Roy-Matthews-Batum out there together. Roy initiates the offense every play anyway at the end of games.
Most of the game a PG will be in there, but for say 6-10 mpg you could use a “big” lineup.
Furthermore, Matthews and Batum are young and developing. I wouldn’t put it past Batum to develop into an acceptable distributor/creater
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions
this is what I've been saying, though
it’s a lineup you can use in short bursts. I’d say closer to 2 or 3 minutes instead of 6-10, but that’s just quibbling.
However, it’s not a starting lineup or a main lineup.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
this just reinforces my point
the only team that can pull it off has Wade and Lebron on it. They’re both excellent distributors.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Miami and Cleveland
both could use non-distributors at PG last year. the Lakers could too. the reason is they had people who could guard opposing PGs.
Daniel Gibson and Shannon Brown are hardly distributors or ball handlers and they paired with Lebron/Kobe just fine.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions
again
there’s a big difference between non-distributing PG and a lineup completely lacking a PG
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
why?
What is it about a PG free lineup that is such an inherent problem.
I agree that lacking a 2nd guy who can create or distribute is a deficiency…but thats a separate issue.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions
IF you have a 2nd wing who can handle the ball, distribute and set up the offense then it's not a big deal
Jordan and Pippen for example. But, we don’t have a Pippen to plug in our lineup.
We have Roy, Miller and Bayless as guys who can share the “PG duties”.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
so its not just about a PG
Its about 2 distributors. This point is harder to debate than the one about PGs.
I’d argue teams HAVE had success doing this (CLE, LAL, etc). One distributor IS ok for some stretches. But I agree that its not a full-time situation and is far from the ideal.
I think that in the Blazers situation its a viable alternative for up to 10 minutes a game and certainly against some teams. I also have more faith in Batum and Matthews ability. Playing the traditional PG role is certainly not their strength, but I think they can be competent for stretches.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions
it's not technically about a PG
but since we’re talking about the Blazers there’s no difference. We don’t have another combo guard or point forward to pair with Brandon which is why we need to have a PG in the lineup.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
All the examples were talking
certainly didn’t have 2 distributors on the court at all times. When Kerr was out there he wasn’t ALWAYS surrounded by Pippen and Jordan. Sometimes those guys sat down and they had to deal with just adequate replacements who wouldn’t have been viewed as distributors…leaving Jordan or Pippen to do it on their own.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I never said they always have 2 distributors
It’s just not a starting or main lineup.
A lineup with just one distributor/ball handler is a rare one no matter what team.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
The full court press is a big problem for us
when we don’t have another ball handler.
Hell, it was even a problem when we had Steve Blake, but part of that is because he melts under any kind of pressure.
ehh
how often do you see the full-court press used in the NBA. I agree it could shut that lineup down, but then you sub out of it. NBA coaches aren’t that savvy about situational strategic changes generally.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions
not necessarily full court presses
3/4 press, half court presses and traps, double teams, ball denial, etc.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
that's because Rudy had weak handles
and Bayless was still learning the PG position
If the Blazers are concerned about a lack of ballhandling after Matthews is on the roster (assuming he is) they can take their BAE and go after a veteran backup PG to insert into games when Bayless and/or Matthews and/or Batum can’t handle the pressure
I’m really not too concerned about this, because you don’t see a lot of full-court pressure during the regular season, except at the end of games and then Miller and Roy would be back in the game, anyway
Regardless, the Blazers think Matthews would be an upgrade at the 2-3, and on this particular occasion I’m inclined to agree with them
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
but admittedly Matthews doesn’t have the handle that Rudy does.
Give Wes a couple of weeks of quality instruction and he’ll be right up there with Rudy
It wasn’t like Fernandez was the second coming of Pistol Pete, especially not with his left hand. Matthews is sure to have fewer careless turnovers due to forced/risky passes
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Fewer turnovers, but fewer assists.
He’s not a playmaker. Rudy is.
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2010 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I've seen enough of Rudy's playmaing ability
let him go throw bounce-entry passes and no-look lobs elsewhere, and you can follow his flair for the dramatic from afar if you choose to. If Fernandez was all that and a bag of chips as a playmaker, then why didn’t he show up and compete in March-April?
And don’t tell me he was still hurt, because he denied it at the time. Rudy was moving around well enough, he just wasn’t playing worth a darn
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
wasn't and can't are still two different things
Rudy has the skills and the experience to play against the best. He just doesn’t want to for this team.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 11, 2010 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions
buuuurrrnnn...on Portland?
Nope, burn on Rudy. Portland is awesome. Blazers are contenders. He just can’t handle an 82 game season.
It’s a bummer because he’s so exciting to watch, but he’s just not in NBA condition.
There exists a quality which is nameless.
that fall was in March 2009
by last March he said he felt better than he had before the injury
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I felt better after my last chiropractic treatment, but now my back is stiff again
Backs are weird. I do think it slowed him and effected his shot. Obviously you disagree. He did miss games and have some limited minutes because of this as the season wore on.
In KP I trusted!
if he won't put out for Portland
then why should Blazer fans defend his honor? I just don’t understand that mindset. If you’re from Spain, then fine.
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
attack him at will
but saying he lacks ability isn’t the answer. He has the ability.
by blacknoiseNW on Jul 11, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Rudy could make an impact
Obviously, I think he has done some whining and mailing it in. I am embarrassed for him as a competitor. But I also feel that he has limitations he did not when we picked him up, and I feel that Nate-ball isn’t his style.
Regarding treating him right, I will say that is sends a bad message to European players, some of whom we have NBA rights to, to screw him over even if he is bringing some of that on himself.
In KP I trusted!
this is on point
Between Matthews and Batum you’re locking down the two best guard/wings and letting Roy freelance a bit or rest a little.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions
but we aren't going to play a PG-less lineup
we just aren’t. It creates more problems than it solves.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
We just need two legit handlers and distributors.
Roy and Batum could in theory do that. But it really doesn’t seem too likely.
More likely we’d only see Nic and Mathews together with Miller and not Roy unless we thought we could play Nic at the 4 due to a weird matchup.
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
lakers/celtics
used PG-less lineups pretty regularly (granted, not as starting lineups)
the bulls teams of years past did as well.
I don’t think this is the problem that you’re making it out to be, as long as you have someone like Batum who can guard the opposing PG
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions
All of those teams had more than one ball handler/distributor
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
true
Pierce/Odom/Pippen
But those guys weren’t exactly point guards. The rest of the team can pick up the slack.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Definitely not PGs but some really good handlers.
That’s why Roy counts. He’s a lot like a Pierce. If Nic (or Mathews) could pass/distribute like Odom/Pippen, this wouldn’t be a conversation worth worrying about. But, as of last year, only Miller and Roy and sorta Bayless could really handle the ball (once we traded Blake) consistently. And I’ve never seen Mathews take that on either so we’ve got to be wary on assuming someone can pick it up.
But I really hope that Nic (if he doesn’t become CP3) can develop this in his game and although us to play lineups like this. We’d smother teams on defense.
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
no they didn't
There isn’t a single Boston lineup in their top 20 that was without a PG
There was only 1 LA lineup that was without a PG in their top 20.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
source is 82games.com
http://www.82games.com/0910/0910BOS2.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0910/0910LAL2.HTM
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Fisher largely plays spotup SG imo.
Farmars the closest to a PG in that LAL group.
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
sure, but he can handle the ball and initiate the offense
Batum and Matthews can’t do that. It would be a mistake to use them at the same time for more than a minute or two and a time.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
I wouldn't be so sure.
Regardless, between backing up Batum and Roy and playing with them for some 3 or 4 minutes stretches…30 minutes is definitely doable on the season, especially when you factor in fouls and injuries.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think it'll happen
Nate does timeshares. He’s going to give Bayless a few minutes at SG, he’s going to play Babbitt a few minutes and Rudy will get time if he’s not traded.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Theres no question
that the triangle offense shows that a PG is unnecessary to win.
Its certainly an unconventonal approach, but that doesn’t mean it won’t work.
Other teams have won with only one primary distributor, to varying degrees.
No question, it would be a weakness of the proposed lineup…but whatever lineup you suggest for the blazers has some weaknesses no?
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions
exactly
if you were telling me that Nate was going to be replaced by a coach who runs the triangle, then we can legitimately talk about a “PG-less” lineup
until then, Miller or Bayless will be out on the floor…or perhaps a #3 veteran PG who’s yet to be acquired with the BAE
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I seem to recall
seeing Tony Allen come in as a replacement for Rondo at times. But you’re right that it wasn’t a common thing. They did after all have Rondo in most of the time.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions
well, Tony Allen can play PG some
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
I'd rather have Batum
running an offense than Allen
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I've never seen Batum run our offense
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
of course not
because right now the roster has a surplus of people who can and a deficiency of people who can defend the perimeter and shoot 3s
the suns showed that they didn’t have to respect the blazers outside shooting and could collapse in whenever roy or miller decided to drive. the blazers runs in that series were either when miller got hot from outside or bayless hit outside shots. yeah roy wasn’t himself…but the point stands.
the blazers may create a deficiency by removing the PG from the lineup, but they address outside shooting and defense — the two biggest deficiencies they have
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions
The Blazers lack offensive fluidity.
Removing the point guard from a team troubled for creativity only exacerbates the matter.
we have 3 guys who can run the offense, handle the ball and distribute
and including Bayless in that list is a bit of a stretch.
Roy, Miller and Bayless, that’s it.
It’ll be hard GETTING good shots, let alone making them if teams are free to pressure the only guy in a lineup who can make plays for other people. Having another shooter in the lineup isn’t going to do us much good if we can’t get him open.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
This is coming from a fan of a team
who had Steve Blake as their starting PG up until 8 months ago?
With Andre the Blazers are miles ahead of where they were re: ball distribution and penetration as compared to the Houston series in 4/09. Back then, there was Roy and nobody to create shots and FT opportunities. Today, there’s Miller and Bayless as well as Brandon (Batum is coming along, as well)
I’m not real frightened of the doomsday ballhandling scenario that you’ve presented to me
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Steve Blake can handle the ball well enough and can initiate the offense
He does hold the single quarter assist record after all. Batum and Matthews aren’t even on that level.
But this is actually a great reason why we don’t want to go back to that situation. We know it left us vulnerable to teams who could “easily” slow down Roy. We had no one else to create points for other people.
Going to a Roy, Batum, Matthews lineup would be EVEN WORSE than what we saw with Blake as the starter. If that doesn’t scare you than I don’t know what would.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
I'm not advocating taking Miller-Bayless off the floor
but I’m also not shaking in my boots about how opposing defenses are going to exploit Matthews ballhandling skills by “surprising” the Blazers with a series of zone traps and full court pressure. If the opposing teams really wanted to do that, then why wait until next season to try it?
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
they didn't
it happened fairly often. Both against Roy and when Roy was out with injury. There was also quite a bit of simple, old fashioned ball pressure in order to take a few more seconds off the shot clock. It’s not hard to force the Blazer offense into bad shots late in the clock. A few seconds of pressure defense or a good double team means our already slow offense is now working with 10-12 second shot clocks.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
It would be nice to have someone who can do it all
But I’ll take Matthews ability to defend and hit an outside jumper over Miller’s “distribution”. If Roy is doubled, Batum/Matthews/Aldridge are left for a wide open outside shot or our C is dunking.
Its easier to stop a lineup with two guys who both distribute and don’t shoot well from the outside. Just pack in on the outside. We saw that Miller and Roy were an awkward pairing last season.
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Uh, not quite
When Roy get’s doubled we often see our offense sputter and fail. Anyone with good team defense was able to rotate and cover our guys after doubling Roy.
We don’t use PG-less lineups. Not a single lineup in the top 20 minutes-wise was without a PG last season. Not enough ball handling, not enough distribution, mismatches on defense….
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
We saw that Miller and Roy were an awkward pairing last season.
Who’s “we”? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?
Was there times when the offense broke down and someone threw a flaming bag pass to Andre who had to burp up a long set shot against the shot clock? Sure, this will happen t every team, from time to time. Fans just remember when it happens to their team and think it’s particularly egregious
But this urban myth that Miller and Roy didn’t fit and that Andre has to go away is just weak sauce. Go back and watch video of the starting backcourt after the Camby trade and up until Roy hurt his knee. They were dynamic and in-synch, they took advantage of size mismatches, Miller pushed the ball ahead for easy baskets
It’s just amazing how poor Bedger’s short-term memories are, I guess everyone is fixated on the Sun’s series when Brandon was hurt and mostly ineffective and Phoenix took advantage by game-planning their defense to contain Miller’s penetration and post up opportunities
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
When Miller had some time with the players and Brandon came back, the Blazers were ripping it up
Scoreboard.
In KP I trusted!
Right, Roy is not going to be a full-time PG, ever
he doesn’t have the desire or the legs for it
every offseason we hear this “Brandon should be the PG” siren song. It’s not going to happen. Yes, he will take the ball at the defense from the top of the key, late in games—that’s it. That doesn’t make him a “PG” any more than K*be or Wade is or Clyde Drexler was
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
wait til you see mathews play
he plays full out all the time, and he plays intelligently. wouldn’t surpise me at all to see him play 30+ minutes a game for the blazers. he is a good defender, fights thru screens, and plays great help defense.
as a long time jazz season ticketholder in another lifetime, the jazz have put themselves into an incredibly poor position in regards to cap space the last 5-6 years. the kirilenko contract and then extending a very frail okur last year for way too much money. then this season, they draft compleatly away from their team needs yet again. last season, they let a very good backup point guard go for next to nothing. now, they have apparently let korver walk to give minutes to their first round draft choice who is incredibly marginal in terms of nba talent. this doesen’t even consider boozer, who was going to where the most money was no matter what.
the issue with mathews for portland is that he is best suited to play roy’s position. however, he can play the 3 or play the 2 while roy runs the point. i can see the blazers plying small in some games with batum at the 4, too. is this a real smart offer for the blazers or are they tweaking the jazz again? tuff tuff question!!
No doubt a solid player, but, as you said, he plays behind Roy
If he’s the only2/3 back up then he could get ~30 minutes a game, but with Rudy, Bayless and Babbitt all in the fold it’ll be much less. It makes sense for the Blazers to trade Rudy if we pick up Matthews, though.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Roy's not playing the point nor Batum the 4
but you’re right that Matthews fills a need against small lineups. With PT-demanding Rudy Fernandez on the roster, Roy had to play the 3 a lot the past 2 years. Not so if Matthews is a Blazer. Wes could guard the SFs and let Roy defend the 2 all year long. This will lead to much less wear and tear on Brandon (that was leading to injuries and potentially shortening his career)
And if the Blazers need a stretch 4 in a smaller lineup, they’ll turn to Cunningham. Nic is too good of a perimeter defender (and too skinny, frankly) to ever swing him to the 4
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I disagree.
Last year, Nate said that Nic playing the 4 was a possibility. His rebound rates are certainly far from awful to play the stretch position, and would likely improve due to playing the 4. If OKC is playing Green and not Durant, against Rashard Lewis and Orlando, etc. There are many opportunities to play a small lineup.
well if Matthews was defending the perimeter, it might make more sense
but last year Martell was a better choice to defend 4s, when the team was thin due to injury. This year, there should be plenty of PF candidates, and Cunningham is a much better choice to defend stretch 4s, regardless.
Nic weighs 200 lbs, that’s not a “power” forward by anyone’s definition. I love Batum’s defense in space, but he’s struggled when facing Melo and Artest, so why would you want him to play against stronger forwards when there are much-better options on the roster?
If the other team is playing a stretch 4 who parks in the corner and isn’t much of a threat to drive (like the players you mentioned) then I wouldn’t want to “waste” Batum by putting him on that stationary player. Nic should be facing up with the best penetrator on the opposing team— even if that’s a PG
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Nic struggled quite a bit guarding point guards last year.
It’s uncertain if he’ll be effective at that position long-term.
Is Jeff Green a power forward? Boris Diaw? Shawn Marion? Rashard Lewis? Many teams do not employ a true power forward, particularly on the second unit. Nic’s just as much a power forward as Travis Outlaw.
My thoughts exactly
Nic also does quite well against new breed, elite PF’s who lack “power.” He did quite well against Dirk this year, and could potentially even guard Bosh (though it would be overly optimistic to think he could do this for more than brief stretches). Also, part of what made our PnR defense against PHX so effective (before Nic aggravated his shoulder) was the fact that Nic and LMA could effectively switch on Amare’ and Nash.
Nic’s just as much a power forward as Travis Outlaw.
In other words, he isn’t one
Travis outweighs Nic by 20 pounds, and Batum is needed on the perimeter, defending whoever the opponents best penetrator is. If Nic gets caught on a switch with a PF, then fine, let him do what he can. But you don’t game plan for a 200 lb player to play the 4 when you’ve got 6 bigger men on the roster
if the other coach is Nellie and he’s playing 4 guards and a PF, then play Nic on one of the penetrating guards. That’s different, it doesn’t mean Batum is a “PF” because he’s the second-tallest Blazer out on the floor, it just means Don is playing a wonky lineup
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Cabby is saying
That while Nic is not a traditional PF at all, many MANY teams play guys who aren’t traditional PFs at PF. Like Jeff Green, Rashard Lewis, etc. Guys who are not beefy or aggressive like Melo or Lebron, and mainly shoot jumpers.
Batum is totally able to guard that sort of “PF”.
M—
#52
and I'm saying
that the Blazers don’t need to waste Batum as a defender by having him guard a standstill stretch 4 in the corner
I realize Nic “can” defend stretch 4s, I question the wisdom of doing it, when the team has a plethora of actual PFs. Camby or Cunnngham should be getting those minutes, the Blazers are thin at SF, so why slide Batum over in the first place?
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I think it just depends on the situation
Some stretch 4s would be the focal point of the offense, especially in the 2nd unit, and we would maybe want Batum on them.
It just depends! He has the size to guard the New-Age PFs these days. If he is needed to, and there isn’t a more pressing need to have him on a regular perimeter player.
#52
Shoot
Some teams got NO ONE we’d need Batum to guard, and we could simply have a real big out there (Like Oden and Camby) and Batum at “PF” and not even worry about who is guarding who because the other team doesn’t have a grip of threats to worry about.
Allllll depends. We’ll just have to see how it shakes out with matchups and all that noise.
#52
lol
replace stretch 4 with point guard (if that PG is their best perimeter player)
It’s the same argument, but you like it in one case but not the other
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
It's definitely a middle finger, no question about it
But apparently Portland management was tired of being highly regarded around the league.
I agree it’s too much money for Mathews, especially for us because he’s a backup, but I suppose that’s the price for trying to steal a restricted FA. He should have been a guy a team locks up for cheap and in a few years when he’s a great role player people say, "Team X was smart to lock him up that cheaply!
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
to be fair
this really isn’t a TON more than what he asked for up front. According to reports here in SLC his representation asked for the full MLE for five years right off the bat, and the Jazz told him to go test the market. So yeah, I’m as upset with our own management as I am with yours. :P
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
risky strategy for sure
I’m still upset with Portland management. Let’s vent about terrible management together!
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
The miss the jailblazers era
The vulcans are telling PA that they should have gone with the Rash’weed gear and the total Oakland Raider look.
In KP I trusted!
Many believe the Blazers biggest need this off season was to get a backup 2 who could defend and hit the 3.
Wes fits our need perfectly. We had to overpay a bit or you guys would match for sure. Paul Allen has always been willing to pay to make the team better. Targeting Millsap and now Mathews has way more to do with them as players than the team they have played for. I don’t hate the Jazz nearly as much as some around these parts, but this idea that we are just targeting the Jazz to screw with them sounds real whiny. If you want Wes, match the offer. If he’s not worth it, stick us with this excessive contract and laugh at us. Or offer your players a deal they can agree to before they start talking to other teams. Less whining, more gratitude for gifting Deron to you would be appreciated.
by 52therim on Jul 10, 2010 5:42 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Jazz could have avoided this....
if they had made Matthews a reasonable offer beforehand. It’s sad that other teams have to make sure your players get paid.
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
by jenstcy on Jul 10, 2010 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I just want to say two things
1) It really looks like we are trying to screw you guys, and I would not be surprised at all if that is the case. I can completely understand your frustration.
2) However, Utah is not the only team we do this to. We often try to screw the Spurs in the draft. We spread a nasty rumor about a player they wanted to draft this year, and watched him fall right into our hands (Elliot Williams). Two drafts ago, we traded to a spot just ahead of the Spurs to draft a player they had spread a nasty rumor about in hopes that he would fall to them, only to have that player become our hope for the future (Nic Batum).
All three teams have something in common: they often find, in the draft and among undrafteds in Utah’s case, solid contributors that others have passed up. It’s not necessarily that all we want to do is make things as financially difficult for the Jazz as possible, but simply that the Jazz, Blazers, and Spurs are all in competition for the same type and quality of players. Milsap would have been perfect for us last year, and Matthews would be perfect for us this year, and they are truly solid players that Utah picked up at a bargain rate to begin with. I would hope that this is more of a friendly competition for talent than a cut throat attempt to burn particular organizations.
by HailOden! on Jul 10, 2010 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
that's fair.
I don’t labor under any delusions that this is actually motivated by ill feeling from the Blazer org towards the Jazz org. That’s illogical conspiracy thinking and I don’t buy it.
But I do buy that both of these deals (Millsap, Matthews) are motivated less by the desire to sign good players at fair prices who fit in a basketball sense, and more by the desire to make it much more difficult for another team to stay competitive. The biggest proof of this is the front-loaded structuring of the contracts. This was especially true last year with the Millsap deal, when the Jazz were going to be over the luxury tax anyway. At that point it’s not even about basketball, it’s about removing dollars from our owner’s pocket. That might not seem like a big deal to you guys, since you have Paul Allen, but it is a big deal to us.
And that’s definitely sound business strategy (obviously I shouldn’t expect everyone to “play nice” and just let the Jazz do what they want)… but don’t expect to earn any friends by it. It’s ballsy, it’s cutthroat, and even if it isn’t motivated by any grudges (I don’t believe it is), it certainly might cause some.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
If it puts us consistently over the Jazz.
We’ll accept grudges.
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
It's the trickle down principle
If you trickle on a billionaire’s team like the Jazz do ours, PA’s gonna trickle back.
In KP I trusted!
PA's trickle > everyone else's trickle
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
For some reason
“trickle” and “jazz” don’t look right together…
I'm just not crazy about player nick names...
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jul 10, 2010 11:39 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
jazz had to know millsap would get a toxic offer last season
when jerry sloan is as high on a player, as he is on millsap there is damn good reason. the only part of the millsap contract from portland that anyone could say might have been over done, was the front-end nature of the offer. frankly, millsap is a bargain for rest of his contract.
as to mathews, this is really a tough call for jazz management which has been pretty damn awful for several years in many ways because of cap space and incredibly dumb past contracts, they wound up letting an excellent backup point guard go away for nothing. then the draft this season with a lottery pick, the jazz pick a very weak and frail 3, who is at best a marginal nba prospect in the scheme of things. then they let an outstanding shooter and backup just walk when korver signed with the bulls. korver wanted to be back with the jazz, and mgmt all but spit in his face with their draft pick. indeed!!
Frontloading the contract isn't personal
It is just raising the bar to improve the odds that the Jazz don’t match. I see it as a sign the Blazers really want him.
by oldguyoldfan on Jul 10, 2010 6:30 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
the journalist in me agrees.
the Jazz fan in me is still pissed. :-/
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
About the "front-loading" issue
… the desire to make it much more difficult for another team to stay competitive. The biggest proof of this is the front-loaded structuring of the contracts.
I’m guessing that front-loading that salary also leaves much more space to re-sign Oden a year from now.
that is a good point I had not considered.
thanks for the insight.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
all's fair in love and war
We spread a nasty rumor about a player they wanted to draft this year, and watched him fall right into our hands (Elliot Williams)
The Spurs did the same thing re: Batum in ’08 and possibly Blair in ’09
And Elliott Williams banged his knee while working out for the Spurs this spring, not the Blazers…so maybe you’re pointing that blame gun in the wrong direction?
If a small market wants to get over in this league, they’ve got to scrap at every level, 12 months a year. On the court and in the marketplace. Utah unearthed a gem in Matthews, but they left him unguarded. Now they will have to pay, or let him go and try to unearth another gem
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
For the record, I still can't figure out if this is coincidence, or if the Blazers are actively holding a grudge against the Jazz.
Is there something in the histories of our front offices that we don’t know about?
Or do you guys just find good talent, and Portland wants to steal it?
Probably just your last line.
Utah has a great system so why not take some of the players that get churned out?
It's also a good thing.
To make top competition have to pay to keep up.
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
That's the thing...
are the players just good in Utah’s system?
It’s clear they get the most out of their players. The Blazers well…I’d say not so much.
coaching is more important than people realize
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
this is a more significant fact that most realize.
There is clear precedent for many players performing above expectations in the Jerry Sloan offense, getting big offers from other teams, and failing to match their Jazz production. This is especially true of wing players.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
I very much doubt it's anything personal.
It feels that way to fans, but there’s no reason it would be.
It’s more like playing a game of Risk, and having everyone attack the dude who’s the weakest, even though he’s not a threat to anyone, because everyone wants his Risk cards.
/board game nerd
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
by Shums on Jul 10, 2010 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think it's personal either
We’re trying to be jerks to everyone these days
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
and succeeding!
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Paul Allen owns..
All of North America, just conquered South America this turn, and is pushing into Africa from Brazil soon. He also has Kamchatka and Iceland. He just wiped out the dude who is the weakest and will have 6 Risk cards his next turn.
You own Siam, half of Africa, half of Europe. You have 3 Cards. The other guy owns most of Asia and Australia. (Old board game, no connectors from Asia to Hawaii). Your move.
I turn in a set for 50 armies (go Wild Card), pile them in and the extra two for GB in GB and take PA out
Then I turn in HIS cards for 55 armies FTW!
But I should of let him win. I could have got a cheese job at Vulcan.
:(
In KP I trusted!
jazz have done very well with 2nd round picks and undrafted free agents
much better than they do with their 1st round picks, other than williams the last 10 years. certain irony in that they do better selecting the not obvious talents like a mathew or a williams.
that said, because of crappy contracts given elsewhere they often lose them for next to nothing.
suspect they might try to get brewer back this summer, after trading him to memphis late last season.
If Dwil's morale is crippled
can we have him on the cheap?
sure...
But did you expect goodwill from one of your primary rivals? Let’s be real, Utah and Denver are public enemies #1 and #2 here in Portland (okay, maybe 3 and 4, L.A. will always be #1…). We actually have use for Matthews, and it’s goodness to us if we can slow down the Jazz or befuddle their plans by making them match, too. This is plain smart.
And for the record, I think we’ll really need Matthews by the time we’re done dealing this summer.
losing Matthews may cripple it for many people. (Not least of which is one Deron Williams.)
I just had a thought. What if Portland’s ulterior motive is to destabilize D-Will’s long term relationship with the Jazz’ ownership, in hopes that it will lead to a trade request?
I don’t blame Utah’s fans for being angry at the Blazers, but I wasn’t happy when Karl Malone elbowed Brian Grant’s face so viciously that it required stitches, either (and no foul was called, of course) Sometimes, payback takes awhile to come around
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 10, 2010 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec for coming on here and giving us a very honest Utah fans perspective.
I feel your pain. It does feel like PA is picking on on you guys. I also don’t like this move. I don’t think Matthews would do nearly as well in our offensive system as the ultra efficient Utah-Sloan system. He would stand in the corner a lot and wait for the kick out playing for Nate.
I don’t think you have to worry about anything. I would be shocked if you guys don’t match. Also, that “toxic” offer for Milsap appears to be a fair offer right about now. Dude is money. See you four times this year!!
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Jul 10, 2010 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions
thanks for the kind words.
and don’t be too sure re: Jazz matching. if Kevin O’Connor (our GM) is anything, it’s stubborn. He flat REFUSES to make any deal that he feels is unfair or not worth it. This is the reason so few trades go down in SLC.
I also agree that Matthews will be nowhere near as effective in the Portland offense. Many wing players who produced under Jerry Sloan left for greener pastures and their stats plummeted.
We’ll see.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
I don’t think Matthews would do nearly as well in our offensive system as the ultra efficient Utah-Sloan system. He would stand in the corner a lot and wait for the kick out playing for Nate.
You say this like it’s a bad thing. The Blazers need another floor spreader to replace Blake, Webster and Outlaw and where do you think they’re going to get that from, a rookie who gets tired and confused during summer league workouts?
Matthews played 25 mpg and shot 38% from downtown, last year. I’ll take that. He can make standstill 3-pointers playing in anybody’s offense (as long as his confidence holds up) and he’ll defend like a Tasmanian devil at the other end of the floor
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
it IS a bad thing
we’re not getting as much value from the same player. If all we need is a guy to stand in the corner, let’s get Morrow for 1/3 the price.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Morrow is gone
I would’ve made him an offer, you would’ve made him an offer
Portland may even have made Morrow an offer, or they may have passed because they know a bunch of stuff about Anthony that we don’t now and they didn’t think was worth their trouble
Matthews isn’t just going to stand in the corner all the time, but he has the ability to knock down that shot and it’s a big part of the Blazer’s offense, because it opens up the lane for penetration of post ups
you can say hypothetically that the Blazers could find a lower-cost player to do that job—they even have one in Babbitt. But Luke didn’t start for an NBA playoff team last year, Wes did. And Portland doesn’t have a chance to acquire a player like WM right now unless they offer the full MLE or trade away something awfully nice to get him
Some bench players are worth 5-7 mil/year. Perhaps WM will be one of them, the Blazers or the Jazz will certainly find out. Meanwhile, Morrow and Travis will be getting to know each other in Newark, this fall
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I also think Matthews can help us
The big up front payment makes the yearly salary lower and more tradeable, so that’s a nice part of the expensive-looking deal.
Mo—
#52
The point remains
Jerry Sloan often squeezes maximal potential from his role players while our system gets less than full value. His fast break ability and slashing are two skills which are threatened by our system.
We might be paying quite a bit of cash for a guy who benefited tremendously from the system he was in. The same thing would happen if we (for some crazy reason) acquired a guy like Monta Ellis.
The moral of the story: I think it’s very unlikely that Matthews outplays his contract. It might end up being the right amount as he develops, it might end up being too much, but there’s no way it’ll ever be considered a good contract or a steal.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
I agree.
Defense is still a good thing though and not something that’s going to be less valuable in our system. To me it feels like we just signed the SG version of Batum.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 11, 2010 1:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I hope so
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Jazz fans seem to love him, as we both noted in another thread
That makes me happier about the signing, if we do keep him.
#52
I just wish he was an exciting PG instead of an exciting SG.
Also, since it’s front loaded doesn’t that make his contract not a big deal? We aren’t trading him next year anyway, so I don’t see why it would matter what we paid him next season. As long as it’s reasonable in a couple years everything should be fine.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 11, 2010 1:51 AM PDT up reply actions
It makes the yearly rate quite a bit more gooder
And that’s all we’d have to match if we’re trading him, and we’d be taking care of that huge chunk up front, and another team wouldn’t have to.
#52
So he only has a bad contract the year when we probably don't care that he has a bad contract?
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 11, 2010 1:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Purty much, I guess
After we pay that 9~ million up front, his contract thereafter is 25 million over 5 years, I guess.
And that’s all another team has to match. I’m fine if the deal is tradeable, because I don’t think we can be sure he is THE FIT for our team for the next 5 years. He should be a fine player to have on the roster, at the very LEAST, but no reason to be totally locked into him for the duration of his contract (like we would be with Hedo, for example).
Paying a bunch up front is expensive of course, and makes his overall deal probably more than we’d like, but it also makes him more tradeable down the road by making the yearly salary cheaper AND makes it harder for the Jazz to match.
So, I think the way the contract is structured seems like a good idea’r.
#52
I do kind of think it's a bad thing.
Nate’s system requires players who can either shoot, take their man off the dribble with dribble penetration, be successful in ISO, rebound, and defend.
Matthews highlights are a lot of him cutting hard to the rim of screens, catching and finishing around the rim. I haven’t really seen much of him driving and beating his defender. Here in Portland he wouldn’t get those screens and opportunities to cut to the basket as much as he would in Utah. I’m just afraid that his strengths are not going to properly used playing for the Sarge.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Jul 11, 2010 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree with everything you said.
My Jazz fan friend told he’ll be upset if we get Matthews, which is reason enough for me to be happy with the offer.
"..cocaine is a classy drug meant for men of finer tastes like Sr. Rudolfo Fernandez."
-AK1984
Here's what I show Portland could offer:
A full MLE contract with maximum raises and a 17.5% signing bonus (the max allowed) would be:
Base contract amount of $26,834,169
Signing bonus of $5,692,095, which counts as $1,138,419 each year against the cap
Total of $32,526,625
He could get $8,930,703 upfront (the bonus amount plus 70% of the first year’s base salary amount).
The amounts given by the agent don’t jive. If the contract amount is higher than what I have listed here, then the bonus % has to be lower. I don’t see any way that he could get a $34 million contract with $9.2 million upfront. Not with a $5,765 million MLE.
Would they be able to offer a player...
to make up the difference? I have never heard of this happening with a restricted free agent but I expect you know more than me.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
I'm sorry, I don't understand the question.
Are you asking if Utah can send a player also? Or if Portland can send a player back in trade to Utah?
Either way, the answer is no.
You answered below...
I meant Portland sending a player to Utah to make the salaries match. I did not think it was possible but just making sure.
PTB Liberation Day - 2/10/04
We should offer a player for a draft pick in a separate trade if they agree not to match.
It could be Rudy or a rookie or Pendergraph, or whatever works for both teams. They have a huge trade exception so it is no problem to trade them a player for a draft pick.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 10, 2010 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions
From Larry Coon's FAQ
There can be no compensation given to a team in return for their not matching an offer to a restricted free agent. For example, Houston could not sign Golden State’s restricted free agent, then send Golden State a draft pick in exchange for their not matching the offer and retaining the player.
I'm not sure that applies. It's a separate trade, a player for a draft pick, not compensation.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 10, 2010 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I think that's exactly the scenario they are trying to stop
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Trades are divided into pieces all the time to get around CBA restrictions on combined deals.
So you could ask the same question about each of those separately.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 10, 2010 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions
You linked the two above
with your statement of “if they agree not to match”. That makes it compensation. That you’re trying to add compensation through a separate trade is irrevelent – it’s an attempt to circumvent the CBA and would be nullified by the league.
OK I'm convinced, the exact wording from the CBA is below.
The no consideration “of any kind” is a killer. :)
(o) There may be no consideration of any kind given by one Team to another Team in
exchange for a Team’s decision to exercise or not to exercise its Right of First Refusal, or in
exchange for a Team’s decision to submit or not to submit an Offer Sheet to a Restricted Free
Agent.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 10, 2010 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions
The CBA has a strict anti-circumvention rule
Any trade that looks targeted solely to get around it will get slapped down by the League, with the strange exception of the retiring players thing, but that’s different.
I'm quite aware of that. But I thought this might be within the rules, similar to splitting big trades up
into multiple trades (which is totally legal and fairly common) to avoid CBA limitations that can affect multiple player trades. But clearly it’s not within the rules, based on the CBA section I posted above that expressly prohibits this for restricted free agent offer sheets. That CBA section is where Larry Coon’s FAQ comes from, but the CBA section is worded stronger (no consideration "of any kind") than Coon’s FAQ.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 10, 2010 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions
It could be Rudy
Not if the Jazz listen to Fernandez’ agent
/whiny voice
SLC isn’t a big enough market to make Rudy happy
/whiny voice
Personally, I’d be happy to contemplate Jerry Sloan chewing on Rudy’s backside for a few years
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
If the MLE were $6 million
Matthews could get a contract for $33.85 million with an upfront amount of $9.29 million. Maybe the agent is ‘rounding’ the MLE up….
Hollinger said it would be $32.7 million not $34.
note for salary cap pedants: If $9.2M upfront payment to Matthews is correct, total for deal is only $32.7M, not $34M.
Sounds like Portland did frontload it
I’m saying that I think the frontloaded amount is $8.9 million, not $9.2
hey storyteller, how did you come up with these numbers?
I am using the draftexpress salary calculator and got these:
Full MLE with maximum raise (8%) , without any bonus:
Year of deal Value for Year Total Contract Value
1 $5,765,000 $5,765,000
2 $6,226,200 $11,991,200
3 $6,687,400 $18,678,600
4 $7,148,600 $25,827,200
5 $7,609,800 $33,437,000
So base contract amount should be $33.4 million. Max signing bonus would be $5.845 million. Total contract value would be $39.2 million. What do I miss?
You have to fit the first year's cap hit into the MLE amount
Including the pro-rated part of the bonus. Right now your numbers have a base salary of $5.765 million and a pro-rated bonus of $1.169 million for a 1st year cap hit of $6.934 million. But you only have $5.765 million to spend….
by Storyteller on Jul 10, 2010 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions
If we want this deal to go through we should offer Utah something else in trade for a draft pick.
i.e. We could trade them Rudy for a 2nd round draft pick on the condition they don’t match. Or trade them another of our rookies, or whatever works for both teams.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 10, 2010 5:25 PM PDT reply actions
grease the wheels!
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
this is an excellent point
whatever the blazers get back for fernandez it probably won’t be much. Matthews is a great fit and if the Blazers see him as a key rotation piece they should be aggressive
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions
ahh missed that
theres probably some ways to work around it…but its probably not worth getting caught
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Are you sure that applies to a separate trade vs compensation?
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 10, 2010 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Here's the point
Your statement “We should offer a player for a draft pick if they agree not to match” is the important one. You’ve just linked the two transactions. That’s what the rule is designed to stop.
Indeed, even if it's a "handshake deal", you have to hope not to get caught.
And that’s tougher when the second trade doesn’t really pass the “sniff test”.
lol
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
this is true
@johnhollinger Random tought: Blazers with Matthews, Batum, Oden and Camby will be about 10,000 times better defensively than at midpoint of last season.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Roy only if you were playing a short term "big" lineup
I’d say Miller for a guy who can get his own shot and play the pick and roll with Oden.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Miller makes more sense with Oden, but
I worry Miller-Matthews-Batum-Oden-Camby doesn’t have enough offense. I guess I don’t know enough about Matthews. Can he slash?
yes
his strength coming out of college was his ability to get to the rim and draw fouls
by don maxingly on Jul 10, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions
His subpar ballhandling was masked by the Jazz's offense.
he would likely find it much tougher in a system with a heavy dose of isolation play.
nate without iso is like
lebron without headband
by HD on Jul 10, 2010 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He could still be let go.
/hope
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
His subpar ballhandling was masked by the Jazz’s offense…he would likely find it much tougher in a system with a heavy dose of isolation play.
Not even. Matthews could “do a Portland” in the corner just as well as Blake or Outlaw has done for the last 3 years. Wes shot 38% from downtown as a rookie
The Blazers don’t need more mid-range shooters or penetrators, they need another floor spreader and WM is the right fit at the 2-3
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
With people advocating a point guard-less lineup?
I think we all remember Martell getting stuck with the ball late in the clock, killing the possession. There is similar potential with Matthews, so saying that he’s a good slasher is a bit optimistic.
you need to go watch Wes' video
Matthews took the ball baseline and scored on wrap-arounds and dunks. No, he doesn’t have a two-dribble pull-up shot yet, but I’m not going to hold that against him after his rookie year. Batum just started to show that pump-fake and step-through late last year, and it took years for Travis and Martell to develop their mid-range game
Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth, Matthews has a good base of skills to develop upon, and he’s more-ready to step in and contribute than Babbitt, etc
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
It's not a gift horse, it's 34 million dollars for a backup guard.
I saw him play last season. The Jazz system was ideal for his talents, and I worry that he’d fail to be as effective elsewhere. He is also an old second year player and likely quite near his ceiling.
it is light on offense, but you play that line up for defense
then you mask the lack of firepower by running offensive sets with no isolation plays. A lot of pick and roll with Miller and Oden can buoy the offense in that lineup while the defense shuts the other team down.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Then we make a Shock and Awe lineup with our top scorers, and Nate can iso his little heart out.
THANK YOU KEVIN PRITCHARD
Blazers fan since '91
"We are the black void. We are the red steel. We are the white sword. With ball in hand shall we reap the sins of this NBA and cleanse it in the fires of destruction. We are the Trail Blazers. The end has come!"
by rise_stand_resist on Jul 10, 2010 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I worry Miller-Matthews-Batum-Oden-Camby doesn’t have enough offense.
Superior defense leads to transition offense. Watch Matthew’s highlight video, he’s a one man fast break
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Matthews isn't that great a defender.
Solid, but our halfcourt offense would be real, real bad without a point guard. Probably hurts our offense more than helps our defense.
I've seen the video
he’s a ball-hawk with a nose for the ball. He’ll anticipate a play and step into the passing lane for a deflection. I don’t understand how you could watch the replays of his defense online and not notice this
does he have things to learn about NBA team defense? Sure, he’s only played 25 mpg for one season. Project him out, he’s got upside at both ends and would fill an obvious bench role for Portland
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
How much upside does an old second year player have?
Watching a highlight video can make most anyone look like a star. They don’t have replays of the times when he misses a steal, they’ll show when he makes the steal. Defense via youtube is incomplete.
you should see my youtube highlights
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
She has youtube highlights?
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
I didn't know they let those things on youtube
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
you're the one being gross
they NBA doesn’t like copyright violation so they take down the basketball highlights
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
But does the WNBA?
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
what's that?
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Wesley's New Bankroll Account?
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
by T Darkstar on Jul 10, 2010 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Watching a highlight video can make most anyone look like a star. They don’t have replays of the times when he misses a steal, they’ll show when he makes the steal. Defense via youtube is incomplete.
Thank you for the sample size lesson. i suppose you’ve gone back and pulled scouting video of Utah’s games and reviewed Matthew’s less than stellar possessions and come to the conclusion that he isn’t a great defender, eh? Wes must’ve really pulled one over on the Jazz’ coaching staff, then. Old undrafted rookies who have already reached their upside are constantly finding themselves in Jerry’s starting lineup during the playoffs, I guess
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Did YOU go and review all of their games either?
That’s a weird argument to make.
And I doubt “upside” had any part of Sloan’s decision to play Matthews. He fit what they needed, right then. Him fitting right THEN, does not mean he has obvious upside. Age and style of player comes into consideration here.
I think he’ll be a decent glue player, but he doesn’t project to be much more.
#52
To play for Sloan, he's prolly a good/aggressive defender
So please don’t get sidetracked by that part.
I just don’t think Sloan cares about upside when considering who he’s gonna play, unless it’s an obvious future star like Deron.
#52
Yeah, scouts thought he would be Damon Jones coming out of Marquette, so he went undrafted
Obviously he’s a better defender than that and has shown that he can overcome his pretty average athleticism by playing well within in his abilities, and I do like his game as stated above, with a few restrictions he still has (like little lift on jumpers, or taking his head down and losing control a bit too easily on dribbles). Hard to say what his upside is now, but apparently the Blazers scouting staff is high on him so there could be still something there.
apparently the Blazers scouting staff is high on him so there could be still something there.
As opposed to the BE scouting experts who think he’s already peaked and will be waste of PA’s money
The Blazer scouts see something in Matthews, Jerry Sloan and the Jazz felt confident enough in him to start him against L*A in a playoff series. What more do I need to now? Bedgers aren’t going to talk Portland’s front office into rescinding the offer sheet, so let’s just see how the process plays out
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
apparently the Blazer staff is high on Hedo so there could be something there
apparently the Blazer staff is high on Darius Miles so there could be something there
as opposed to the BE scouting experts who think it will be a waste of money….
As you can see it’s not hard to find scenarios where our staff has gone wrong. Fans aren’t always wrong and the professionals aren’t always right.
This is an intelligent community as well. We aren’t talking out of our rears just because we disagree with what management is doing.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
see Jazz fans!
….there is a basketball reason for the blazers to jerk you around….again.
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Batum and Matthews would lock the perimeter down nice and tight.
THANK YOU KEVIN PRITCHARD
Blazers fan since '91
"We are the black void. We are the red steel. We are the white sword. With ball in hand shall we reap the sins of this NBA and cleanse it in the fires of destruction. We are the Trail Blazers. The end has come!"
by rise_stand_resist on Jul 10, 2010 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions
The vibe from Utah.
It’s obviously something they have to talk about with Greg Miller, but I think the Jazz’s instant reaction is not to match on Matthews.
second time's a charm?
the Blazers actually have more of a need for Matthews this year than they did for Millsap, last July. It worked out well when Utah matched because it drove KP/Nate to interview Miller, who was the best FA addition in the NBA last summer.
Matthews won’t be the best FA acquisition this summer, but he definitely fills a role and immediately would improve the team’s perimeter defense and transition game
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I think Babbit+Matthews is better overall than just Martell
But the extra money it would cost for backups seems strange
different kind of defender
have you watched the Matthews highlight package, yet? The kid has a nose for the ball, anticipates steals and then leaks out for easy baskets. (Then he defended K*be right on the block and blocked Bry*nt’s shot.) Sure, Webster was a willing defender, but Matthews brings more to the table and doesn’t seem to have the missing “confidence link” that hindered Marty’s decision-making
(Growing up as the son of an NBA player may be to WM’s advantage in this area, no one is going to show him anything he hasn’t already seen since he was in grade school)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
There are no FA in the league this summer...
Everybody is moving via S&T. Yes, I know it’s a little bit of an exaggeration, but I do remember the good ol’ days when a superstar could rip the heart out of his hometown and not have his former team negotiate a S&T.
by 52therim on Jul 10, 2010 11:28 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
matthews will be a good pick up
and probably better for our team than rudy is. But that offer would be a lot of money, I’m worries utah might flip this one on us, but if we overpay to get the right backup wing man, so be it, most good teams are in the lux tax
This ends the nonsense that Paul Allen won't use the MLE, or go over the luxury tax limit.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 10, 2010 6:46 PM PDT reply actions
like I've been saying (and storyteller has corroborated)
they can go over this month and sneak back under in February and not have to pay the tax
It wasn’t nonsense, they traded Webster and dumped Gomes so they had the flexibility to make an offer like this
FWIW, I’m glad to see the MLE is being used, but I’ll be even happier when Paul overspends because he and the Vulcans know that the team is ready to compete for the finals
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Another question:
Didn’t (recently traded) Webster provide basically everything we are looking for Matthews to provide?
And Matthews is going to be more expensive. Maybe we just liked Babbitt that much?
Get well Greg! Rip City is still behind you!
That's what we drafted him as
but then some Roy guy came along…
Get well Greg! Rip City is still behind you!
And Webster wasn't a SF
He was a tweener with an inconsistent shot. Like Marty, not in love with his game. GL in Minny, tho.
In KP I trusted!
we drafted him as a SG but thats not his skill-set
he’s a 3 all the way.
by hoodieNation on Jul 10, 2010 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions
he didn't develop that skillset
it wasn’t like he didn’t have the opportunity or coaching available
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Some NBA stat website said that Marty was actually a lot more efficient playing the 2.
Of couse I realize everything I say here means nothing.
In K.P. I STILL trust.
Travis Outlaw fan from the beginning.
by llamaiguana on Jul 10, 2010 8:13 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
There aren't good definitions at this point that ensure the correct positions are catalogued.
To my eyes, his ballhandling was too poor to create off the dribble, which made the offense stagnant. A good example of this is the first quarter of the February OKC game.
Marty was and is a 3...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Marty has the prettier stroke
but Matthews has a much better handle.
I'm just not crazy about player nick names...
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jul 10, 2010 7:06 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
pretty stroke = career 37%
I’ll take the guy who barely lifts off the floor yet shoots 38% and offers more defense/upside
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I liked what I saw from Matthews in the playoffs.
He has a good handle and can score in the paint (caugh…Rudy…caugh…Martell), seems to play solid perimeter (caugh…Rudy), and looks to have a somewhat reliable shot. He could develop into a nice player. Defense at the 2 is something that killed the Blazers in the Suns series.
Is a role player worth 34 million though? Perhaps the Blazers are in no mood to wait on potential and are willing to pay extra for proven value mixed with upside.
I like it a lot more than Farmar. That’s for sure…
I'm just not crazy about player nick names...
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jul 10, 2010 7:02 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
The Blazers have to think Matthews is our backup SG / backup SF.
If Batum plays 32 minutes and Roy plays 36, that leaves Wes with 28 minutes if you juggle things right. It would be a lot to pay for a backup 2/3, but that was my #1 priority to fill this summer.
Or if Batum was getting traded ….
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 10, 2010 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions
or if Nic/Brandon get hurt again
you don’t have a viral epidemic?
Don’t buy into the Batum trade speculation, it’s counter-intuituve
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Defense at the 2 is something that killed the Blazers in the Suns series.
Yes it did and thanks for noticing. J-Rich? Barbosa? What a nightmare
Props to the Blazers for recognizing the problem and taking steps to fix it
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Anyone concerned about this comment?
[Matthew’s Agent Lance] Young on Matthews’ role in Portland vs. Utah: “We talked about that and obviously he thinks he’s going to be a starter anywhere he goes.”
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein
Agent talk. Milsap's agent said the same thing last year.
The only way he starts here is if Batum is traded, and they certainly wouldn’t tell Matthews or his agent if that was in the works.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 10, 2010 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions
how long before Matthews agent says something along the lines of
“Portland doesn’t target players according to traditional positions, they just acquire talent and Nate makes them fit”
Like Millsap’s agent said, 12 months ago?
KP may be gone, but the scouting philosophy remains
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I'm worried he'll tell that to Marca.
by Timmay! on Jul 10, 2010 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
green!
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Wait I have a question
Why are people so excited for him if they don’t think he is not even close to be good enough to receive the money we are offering him? I havent seen him play
WITH ODEN ON OUR SIDE
sticking it to the jazz is always exciting.
either they lose a player they don’t want to lose, or they pay more than they want to stay in the game. It’s like bullying people when you have the largest chip stack in poker. what’s losing a little cash to make your opponent squirm?
and at the rate FA’s are going, its really not that much money. (this contract is still cheaper than Gooden, or thereabouts, right?)
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
you have got to watch the Matthews highlight videos that are floating around
he’ll get your offseason motor running, guaranteed
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I'm worried that his skills on the break will go unused
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Matthews is indeed fantastic at running the break
but that’s also because he has D-Will running with him.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
New to the Dunk? Read the Manifesto.
From the clips I saw, Wes was out on the wing by himself and D-Will kicked it way ahead
the Blazers have a PG who can do that, too. He played for UofU back in the day
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
good point. :)
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
New to the Dunk? Read the Manifesto.
... no pun intended.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
New to the Dunk? Read the Manifesto.
yes, he is
remind Blazer fans of that, they seem to think that Dre is a bad fit with Roy and has one foot in the retirement bucket already
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I know his lack of an outside shot makes people worry he's an awkward fit for Roy
But I don’t know if anyone acts like he’s done as a player. He was the same as ever last season.
Obviously his age means he can’t last forever…
#52
Andre Miller is done
A few YEARS from now.
But he’s got a very nice contract that is possibly expiring, and if he can be used to get a more long-term PG, he should be traded.
#52
I didn't say he had both feet in the retirement bucket
I was referring to all of the “we need a PGoTF NOW!” trade proposals
as if you didn’t know
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Obviously his age means he can’t last forever…
My problem too!
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:27 AM PDT up reply actions
speak for yourself
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
that TWSS was for you, my friend.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:30 AM PDT up reply actions
It pays to go undrafted. Who needs to be a top 10 pick?
@dexterfishmore: Next season, Wesley Matthews will make more than Tyreke Evans, Brandon Jennings and Stephen Curry combined.
Matthews made about $450K last year and will make 20x that this season ($9M+)
That must be one of the biggest raises in NBA history.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 10, 2010 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Arenas might have him beat
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Wes Matthews is the key to the Blazers acquiring Tony Parker
They need a 2 guard & he is from San Antonio.
Silent Swagger.
We can't trade him until December.
And Tony Parker’s a poor fit with the rest of the roster. I also don’t see why his hometown is particularly relevant.
Hmmm
Clyde Drexler left here for Houston his home town & a chance to play with his good college buddy Hakeem.
Bosh
Silent Swagger.
Clyde did. Nuff said.
Besides if Cleveland had a big man on the level of Hakeem no way Lefonda leaves
Silent Swagger.
Hometown discount perhaps down the line, in terms of a contract extension?
just a thought
Silent Swagger.
Points in the paint in particular
is something we desperately lack, he provides it in spades. Icing on the cake is he is an NBA Finals MVP & has been to multiple finals-Not to mention the French Connection w/Batum.
Silent Swagger.
I know they get young in the post
I would like to see McDyess come here to show Oden that he can overcome injuries to go on and be successful and healthy.
I think starting lineup wise this:
Parker
Roy
Batum
Camby
Oden
is better then WITH Aldridge/Without Parker(Dre)
Silent Swagger.
Explain
Sign Pietrus next year to backup both Brandon & Nico. Finals experience as well, confident in his role, excellent defender.
Parker/?
Roy/Pietrus
Batum/Pietrus/Babbitt
Camby/McDyess/Cunningham/Pendy
Oden/Camby/Billa’(if he comes back)
Silent Swagger.
Martell was not confident in his role at all
unlike Pietrus who knows his job well. Defend & hit your open shots.
Silent Swagger.
I don't see how he's any better than Martell.
He also plays on the Magic with Dwight Howard as a backstop. Quite the inconsistent defensive player.
Drew Gooden has Finals experience.
Martell may not have been confident but he was as productive as Pietrus, and that’s the issue of most importance.
Drew Gooden wasn't a finals MVP
and he doesn’t play PG
Parker may never come to Portland, but to say that he and Roy couldn’t play well together is the same kind of expert analysis that was provided free of charge when Miller was acquired. Then Andre and Brandon went out and pulled the team through a bed of injury coals and led them to 50 wins and the 6th seed, last spring
but that’s not good enough for some folks, I guess. The grass on the other side of the fence always looks greener, unless the lawn is in Arizona
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Crazy Awesome.
Our wing defense with Batum/Pietrus would be among the best in the league. you could argue a lineup of
Parker
Pietrus
Batum
Camby
Oden
Minus Parker you have probably the best defensive lineup in the NBA.
Silent Swagger.
Hah. If Paul Allen loves rudy so much
Trade LA, Sign Marc Gasol next year n try to trade for Rubio’s rights and bring over Claver ! :D
Silent Swagger.
the thrill is gone re: Paul and Rudy
Unfortunately, the breakup came 4-5 months too late for Fernandez to be dealt for a decent return on Allen’s investment
Claver? Pfft! I doubt Portland will ever get that 1st round draft choice back for Victor, much less any actual on-court NBA production
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Parker's fit and recent injury history these past few seasons
along with his declining shooting percentage make it appear that he might begin to slide. I’m sure he has a number of good years left in him, but there is a real possibility that years of playing big minutes in the regular season, post season, and internationally are starting to wear him down. Also, he doesn’t play with Manu Ginobili, a 2 guard who, like Brandon, dominates the ball. Brandon has proven he can play with Miller, and Miller has proven he can play with guys like Iggy and BRoy. But TP has not. It would not be worth paying for an All-Star who cannot perform at an All-Star level because of fit.
Also, LMA does an infinite number of little things that people overlook. Like deflections, that turn into steals for us or turnovers for the opposing team, or often boxing out the opposing team’s big so that our guards can grab the boards (this why we have back-court players who rebound well), or simply showing up and being a gamer consistently.
As a second fiddle, LMA isn’t that great, I admit. We could do a lot better both offensively and defensively. But your new lineup won’t spread the floor as well, and I don’t want to hear about Camby’s shooting ability, because it is no replacement for LMA’s, so DON’T EVEN MENTION THE TREBUCHET! I’m not against trading Aldridge, but I want a clear upgrade to the starting lineup if we move him, not a move that makes a conference rival better than it makes us.
I don’t want to hear about Camby’s shooting ability, because it is no replacement for LMA’s
You don’t think that Tony Parker’s 15-20 foot shooting ability wouldn’t be an upgrade over LMAs?
Camby wouldn’t have to replace LMA’s 15 shots a game. Those touches could be divided amongst Tony, Nic and Greg and the team would probably shoot a much-higher FG percentage (and collect more FT opportunities along the way) as a result
I’m in no hurry to deal LMA, but if Parker and Blair could be acquired and all I have to give up is Aldridge? Where do I sign up?
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I know how you feel about this
and I knew you would say that. That’s why I threw the thing in about Camby :)
My biggest complaint is not starting Camby, it’s 1) sending LMA to the SPURS, where he is all but guaranteed, inmo, to blow up playing under Pop and learning from Duncan; and 2) acquiring a player who has shown problems playing with other ball-dominant players and expecting him to fit perfectly. Yes, the same claim was made about Brandon and Dre, but that was different I believe, because Miller is a different player and person than Parker, and Andre has already proven that he could play with Iggy and make their team better. If Parker had the ability to do this, I think that we would have seen SAS’s HoF coach starting BOTH of his HoF guards.
if LMA goes to the Spurs
he will make multiple all star games. Book it.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
And we will rue the day
This isn’t even a Jermaine O’Neal scenario. LMA produces for us, and we know almost exactly what he is capable of doing to us if we trade him.
most underrated player on the roster, I think
I know he is the favorite bashing target of the BE crowd these days, but it often gets silly how much he is criticized. 17 and 8 night in and night out for a slow paced team like ours is nothing to shake a stick at. No, he’s not the #1 option, and probably best as the #3 option long-term, but good teams need consistent production that can be counted on, and he brings just that. Plus, his versatility on both ends of the floor goes underrated both stat-wise and perception-wise.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Yeah
Because Rudy is so great without Sergio… Oh wait a second he completely stunk it up without him.
Previous playing experience ALWAYS helps
Silent Swagger.
Rudy is a special case.
He is needy.
I just hate the “OMG they are from the same country/city/neighborhood so they must be friends!” argument for why we should trade for someone.
And also, one reason Rudy sucked it up
is because he was injured basically the entire season.
by Roybot on Jul 10, 2010 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just saying
In the 70’s no one would have said anything about it & the great ones play through it.
Silent Swagger.
Several greats missed a huge chunk of an early season.
And come back fully to become great. Not everything can be played through regardless of era.
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
Did you see what happened to Larry Bird when his back went?
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:11 AM PDT up reply actions
one reason Rudy sucked it up is because he was injured basically the entire season.
BUZZ!
Wrong. Rudy told Kerry Eggers that he was completely healthy after his back surgery. He said he hadn’t felt so good in years
So stop making excuses for Fernandez. He was passed over for the starting SG job when Brandon tweaked his hammy. His family and girlfriend left because they were mad at Nate and Rudy sulked, grew lonely and his confidence and attitude took a dive. (If you doubt this, go back and read amlmart’s fanpost at the time, it was titled “the beginning of the end”) Fernandez was hurt emotionally, not physically during the second half of the season and he flat quit on his team during the post season
I don’t want players who aren’t mentally tough on Portland’s playoff roster, no matter what they look like or how many “I heart Rudy” T-shirts that have been sold
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
that couldn't have been posturing at all....no chance
it’s definitely a combination of injury and confidence
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
why would Rudy posture about not being hurt?
the Fernandez defense force’s loyalty is staggering
How about he was healthy but played really bad? That couldn’t be, because he’s a Spanish rock star, right? It had to be Nate’s fault!
Who wants an army of soldiers who throw down their weapons and run at the first sound of gunfire? That’s basically what #5 did last spring—and Blazer fans are still making up excuses for him?
Unbelievable
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Rudy played bad
But it would not be the first time a player did not want to blame injury, or own up to injury. In fact, by my count, it would be the 800th millionth billionth time that ever happened.
His back was messed up, he wasn’t moving well at ALL. He looked hurt. He played hurt. He played well as a rookie, he played bad as a sophomore. It’s not unreasonable to believe that he could return to his rookie year level without thinking people are being silly.
Mortimer
#52
….and we still saw improvement in his game (team defense).
how about we pretend his newfound ‘skill’ of shooting ‘floaters’ goes away, though
steals, steal %, and d rating all went in a positive direction. i thought i saw improvement in his ability to play the passing lanes
believe me mang, i ain’t a rudy fan.boy. hell, he took a floater last year when he was dribbling to his left at the elbow and falling away and to the side of the hoop, and he attempted a floater which bounced miserably off the side of the rim/backboard. all this and it was way early in the shot clock.
i’d rank that as one of the worst shots i’ve ever seen by an nba player
Defensive rating is a very poor metric.
steals and stl% are essentially the same thing, and I’d argue that gambling for more steals is the opposite of team defense.
by Cablinasian on Jul 11, 2010 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Ooph, the floater was painful.
Also painful, his ballhandling. His ballhandling is AWFUL for a NBA guard. Inexcusable.
While I’m sure Nate could use him better, I definitely don’t blame him for Rudy’s troubles. I blame Rudy, and his injuries. Doesn’t mean he won’t return to how he was as a rookie… most players don’t have their best season as a rook.
—M
#52
Have you ever met an athlete who didn't try to conceal the extent of pain or injury?
It’s a standard part of gamesmanship. Never reveal how hurt you are.
And there’s no need for melodrama.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
It's also part of being a TOUGH GUY
Athletes always try to be tough guys.
Hell, in my playing days, I’d never own up to being hurt either because I didn’t wanna be a wimp. It is DUMB, and they should just admit they are hurt, but it is what young men do sometimes.
But nooooo that would be crazy, we must want to kiss Rudy on the mouth to defend him.
M—
#52
yep. you pop painkillers, take extra time to stretch, just do whatever it takes to get out onto the field and not be that guy who always sits out cause of injuries
That mighta' been part of the problem
Rudy kinda looked strung out on heroin most of the year.
-M-
#52
And?
I said home country connections, and them all being American doesn’t have much to do with them wanting to play together. Yes, I know they played on the Olympic team together, yadda yadda yadda.
What I’m saying is just because two players are from the same country/city/whatever, doesn’t mean they should be on the same NBA team.
^This
I would like to point out that one of the most dominant teams over the past decade has been the San Antonio spurs. Their three best players, and their crucial wing defender, hailed from the Virgin Islands, France, Argentina, and California. How’s that for local chemistry?
You guys are getting your panties in a bunch
all I said that its a nice bonus if the trade did happen to go through. Jeebus
Silent Swagger.
I do, but I don't have a problem with bunching.
by Roybot on Jul 10, 2010 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
boxer briefs are the way to go
the right combination of support, freedom and aesthetic appeal
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
I agree
but the price isn’t right. Those bad boys are expensive relative to the other kinds.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:13 AM PDT up reply actions
how fast do you wear them out that it's an issue?
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Well, I poop myself all the time.
So you see the problem.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I SMELL the problem
gross man, gross
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
My loose bowels and I don't take offense so easily, fear not.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Forget freedom, boxers with a bulge = real man.
And yes, I know this a main page thread with Wes Matthews as the topic.
Ugh, I bet Matthews is a pansy who wears briefs.
I just wanna know if he wore a t-shirt in college
That will decide whether we really want him or not.
#52
this is why we created the junk drawer in the first place
all us regulars get into odd discussions
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
People are talking themselves into it.
It’s probably too much money, but potentially a precursor to a trade. If there is no trade, it’s a poor deal.
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2010 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don't assume it's a bad deal without a trade.
I assume Utah will be signing WM’s paychecks. If not, he fills a significant need backing up the wing positions. He’ll earn his money at least as well as Outlaw, Gooden, Amir Johnson, Darko etc. He’s young enough with potential to make this look like an affordable contract if he continues to develop. It’s not like PA is going to not pay Oden or Batum because of WM’s deal. AND it provides depth in case of a trade. He’s no bargain, but RFA get paid well or the deal is matched.
by 52therim on Jul 10, 2010 11:48 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
That's pretty much it.
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Though it could always pay to have contracts like that to package deals further down the road
Arguably we didn’t have enough of those in recent years, due to never using the MLE (since Blake). The only one left attached to a useful player was pretty much Martell.
Interesting that his signing bonus could also mean his cap figure is larger than his salary down the road.
Makes him a good trade chip.
it never hurts to have mid-level salaries on the payroll
not to mention a player who could actually step in if Roy or Batum were out for a couple of weeks?
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Seven million is a lot for someone to step in due to injury.
by Cablinasian on Jul 10, 2010 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions
not really
it was money well spent when Odom replaced Bynum this year
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Different level of player though
Odom is a near-allstar versatile player who defends rebounds and every once in a while not be an idiot and can score.
Matthews seems solid, I like him fine, but that’s a lotta cheddar for a average backup— even if he is a great defender (though a Portland player may not be allowed to grab as much as a Jazz player is).
I am fine with getting him, and it signals more moves ahead, but 7 million… that’s a lot. He ain’t exactly Odom-level.
#52
If there is no trade, it’s a poor deal.
I disagree. It’s only a bad deal if Utah matches the offer and Mason and Bell have signed elsewhere in the next 7 days
then the next GM would have to swing a deal to shore up the backup 2-3 position
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Totally agree!
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Mason headed to Miami before the 7 days are up. I’m not sure Raja will be willing to take a minimum deal to go to Miami. I’m also suspecting that he’ll get other offers and not wait around, but he would be a nice fallback if Utah matches.
by 52therim on Jul 10, 2010 11:56 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
We will have a week of debate, with alternating periods of enthusiastic glee and depression.
Then Utah will match and we can get on with the summer.
by BlazerFanSince1970 on Jul 10, 2010 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions
ain't necessarily so
I’d hedge my bets if I were you
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
That thought occurred to me, but it would be really far out there
Rather a move to limit his minutes and have someone who is not a worse version of Roy but a different type of player with more of a focus on defense, off the ball play, fast breaks and drives.
I think the Blazers said they were ready to trade Roy but only if CP signs a contract extension, and that the reason why CP3 said he would want to go to Portland to play with Roy and LA.
If the trade proposed to CP3 were Pryz, Bayless, Batum and others, CP3 hadn´t said that.
Forbidden to forbid!
Gawd. This crap again. A whole week until Utah matches. I'm not even gonna imagine this roster with Matthews on it. I think there is little chance Utah lets us have him.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
Dunno man, this is a big offer. The Millsap contract was very very reasonable. Not so sure about this one. Could go either way I think.
I do remember last year thinking
“That offer isn’t so toxic.” Right now, I’m thinking, “Dang, that’s a lot for Matthews.”
Other teams are thinking the same thing (here) and (here) So maybe we’ve got a real chance at making this offer stick?
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
As much as I want to keep hope alive and believe something good will happen,
we are probably going to be disappointed.
Oh, I don't think anything's going to happen.
It’ll be like last year’s logjam, only a few new faces!
Cab likes to obsess. Remember Blair?
Obsession is better than merciless repetition, though.
I think everyone should write their faith-based opinions in their signature so they don’t have to keep posting them in every thread.
"..cocaine is a classy drug meant for men of finer tastes like Sr. Rudolfo Fernandez."
-AK1984
I wasn't obsessed with Blair, I was just first on the bandwagon.
When we didn’t pick him, there were people freaking out.
i suppose. you were quick to forgive and forget, to your credit.
"..cocaine is a classy drug meant for men of finer tastes like Sr. Rudolfo Fernandez."
-AK1984
I think Matthews is the endgame and we won't make a deal to resolve the logjam.
I have no faith in this management group.
I fear you're right.
At least we’re not the Clippers.
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
and I'd still like to acquire DeJuan
1) LMA for Parker and Blair
2) ???
3) Profit!!!
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
by two4larue on Jul 10, 2010 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like the purple quote-shading on the SacTown Royalty website
not enough to become a King’s fan, but it is pretty
I should login, wait a day and then ask them to send us our GM back
(how to get yourself banned in 10 minutes or less, lesson 1…)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
love how the Kings fans were offering a first round draft choice for Rudy
Like he’d ever agree to play in Sacto, I’m sure Sergio gave him a glowing report
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
That would be the greatest move!!!
I would gladly take a 1st rounder and double-snub the Minute Men!
There exists a quality which is nameless.
He shoots, he plays tough defense, he can drive the ball
What’s not to like??
I love us going after Matthews, and I love us trading Rudy. This is exactly the kind of player Portland needs more of.
I’m a little worried Utah will match, though. Korver is gone, so they need this guy.
This offer to Matthews is a pretty big sign of things to come. I agree we’re about to see Rudy packaged with Joel and somebody else. Chris Paul anyone? Just sayin. I think the front office are still serious about it.
"You know, when you are in the game, you hear 20,000 people behind you, you don't feel anything."
- Nicolas Batum on playing through his shoulder injury during the 2010 playoffs.
You are indeed "just sayin'," cuz it "ain't happenin'".........
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Will you feel silly if it does?
"You know, when you are in the game, you hear 20,000 people behind you, you don't feel anything."
- Nicolas Batum on playing through his shoulder injury during the 2010 playoffs.
We are signing Wes Mantooth eh?
I will smash your face into a car windshield, take your grandmother our to a real nice seafood dinner & NEVER CALL HER AGAIN !
Silent Swagger.
Let me get this straight...
Meddler and the Morons can’t afford Marty’s $5M a year, but we can afford $5M a year for this guy??? Sheesh.
I’m starting to wonder what Utah did to piss Paul Allen off so much… He put them into luxury tax last year with the Millsap bid and now this…
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
And we're paying more than we would have for Marty.
Not the same
"I don’t give a ZACH about no trade rumors. As long as somebody ‘CTC’ at the end of the day, I’m with them. For all you that don’t know what CTC means, that’s ‘Cut the Check. I just go out there and play. Again, somebody just ’CTC'." -Sheed
yeah
I think Matthews has a chance to be considerably better than Marty next year.
Still not a huge fan of the deal though.
after the first year it seems pretty reasonable..
I don’t see much difference in paying Matthews 4 or 9 million this year.
by resurrect_ha28 on Jul 10, 2010 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions
All in all, I really like the deal.
Mainly, regardless of how it turns out, it weakens the Jazz, who give us a hard time. After the first year the deal is reasonable, and we get a player who is tough nosed and can hit open shots. We are overpaying, but after this year it levels out. Seems good to me.
by resurrect_ha28 on Jul 10, 2010 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I am torn.....
it makes sense Batum is on the move… I really don’t want to see Batum leave… I guess the only thing that would make that pain go away is CP3… Maybe they think Batum is damaged goods? Look what Derek Andersons shoulder did to his career..
"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis
why would mean Batum is being moved?
they don’t play the same position, and SG defense is something we’ve been needed.
by hoodieNation on Jul 10, 2010 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Batum is the only real piece that we can trade that has value besides the obvious...
I’m sure Rudy is going to be moved but what will he bring in return?
"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis
Yes, I'm aware that Paul is chronically injured..
But they must have a better gauge on how Batum’s surgically repaired shoulder is… Paul only sprained an ankle…
"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis
But torn knee cartilidge isnt as serious as a ligament..
no?
"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis
What is Przy making this year?
too much for a trade (3 way possibly) to the Heat… Przy would make the Heat a steamroller
"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis
to be part of history!
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
If Przy goes to the Heat, I start watching the Heat...
………………………. and I can’t stand L.B.Fake.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
why? Im lost
"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis
Because Przybilla is awesome.
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Bing-bing-bing!!!
WINNAR!!!
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Pryz is to timbo as cheesecake is to Ralphie May
Some people just value things waaaaay more than anyone else.
"..cocaine is a classy drug meant for men of finer tastes like Sr. Rudolfo Fernandez."
-AK1984
lol... I really couldn't gauge if he was being sarcastic or not..
I love what Joel does tho… and he would be just what the doctor ordered in Miami… A garbage man to clean up the glass and let everybody else have a chuckfest
"You can lose lots of money chasing women, but you will NEVER lose women chasing money. " - Mr.Landis
They've got the chuckers... Can you imagine how entertaining it would be with The King of All Rebounders underneath?!?!
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Here's a good one...
To put Matthews deal in perspective, he’ll make more next season than 2009 No. 1 overall pick Blake Griffin.
Somebody’s Twitter…
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Its just awesome
To see a guy earn his living that quick, compared to say Blake Griffin who has earned none of his money so far.
Silent Swagger.
by 420Phenom on Jul 10, 2010 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
‘cept that Blake Griffin would’ve been worth substantially more than he’s getting paid on the open market. Think NFL rookie deals.
I would be very surprised
that if in the next NFL CBA the rookie deals don’t get negotiated downwards. Owners have to be tired of paying morons like J. Russell $40 million before cutting them. Top-ten rookies shouldn’t come into the league making more than established All-Pros. That doesn’t make sense.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:16 AM PDT up reply actions
It's one of the things that everyone wants to fix. The owners, Roger Goodell, and I think even the union, since it pisses off the veteran players.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Jul 11, 2010 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions
yep
the NBA rookie scale was a brilliant move that has worked fantastically ever since it’s been in place. Holdouts are a thing of the pass, unproven rookies demanding $100 million dollar deals are no more. Top picks get mid-level money then an opportunity to cash in once they’ve proven themselves. Of all the problems with the NBA’s CBA, this is not it. It might need some tweaking, and has been tweaked before, but by and large, this was a homerun.
The NFL desperately wants to follow suit, and hopefully they will.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
UTAH Fans
are calling us bad names on their SBNation website…it’s kind of funny actually…sticks and stones Utah…….the poll they have running about wheather to match for Mathews is losing…..
Is it November yet?
If I was in their shoes, I'd be pretty ticked too.
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
nah
a few folks are venting frustration, but if you read the whole thread we’re responding respectfully to you guys. We appreciate your perspective. Appreciate being treated well here too.
Feel free to take a look if you want to see our pros/cons re: Matthews.
http://www.slcdunk.com/2010/7/10/1563604/polling-time-again-do-we-match-for#comments
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
honestly
after reading slcdunk.com the fans there as a whole are probably more reasonable and respectful than the ones here. i’ll probably get flamed for this.
"There was a time when this blog was for intelligent BASKETBALL fans. It has unfortunately become O-Live 2…" ~Ilikeemall
"Did they really expect me to bow down to Jesus?!?" ~Sophia
"At first glance, I saw a fairly unremarkable penis." ~Sophia on Greg Oden
by Philthyanimal on Jul 11, 2010 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions
shut up your face!
it’s probably because Jerry Sloan will yell at them if they step out of line
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Carmelo's wedding is a conspiracy! the whole league is going to Miami!
"..cocaine is a classy drug meant for men of finer tastes like Sr. Rudolfo Fernandez."
-AK1984
Watch, Roy shows up in another photo.
"OK Kids! Who wants a basketball? That's why I love my Chevy Silverado."
LeBron's next presser
“Im taking my talents to Lauren London”
Speaking of cruel, Portland fired GM Kevin Pritchard an hour before the draft. Hey, he's only a top-seven GM -- there are plenty of those. Does anyone else think Al Davis died a year ago and took over Paul Allen's body? - Bill Simmons
Can't get over the fact that Pritchard -- fired earlier in the day -- is still running Portland's draft. If I were him, I'd be in Portland's war room loudly calling other GMs and saying things like, "I have an offer for you: I'll trade you our No. 23 pick, and in return, YOU HELP ME PULL THE F****** KNIFE OUT OF MY BACK!!!!! Do we have a deal????" - Bill Simmons
by blazeraddict on Jul 10, 2010 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
CP3 looks like a G-man
I feel like if someone were about to shoot the president, I’d tell him about it.
arrived together?
I think I gonna be seriously ill if CP3 ends up in Miami. Why bother going to any games? What to fight to be #2? No thanks.
by jeckyll2hyde on Jul 10, 2010 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I just want Paul to stay as far away from Miami Thrice as possible.
Portland should be a large enough distance. If These three could scheme on a superteam, why doesn’t Batum get to work recruiting TP!
Silent Swagger.
teams that will do well against Miami
need GREAT team defense
a game changing PG or a game changing center
Orlando, Boston from 2 years ago in the East
Fakers in the West
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Me too
LA is evil and got a steal in Pau Gasol and all, but the way Miami was formed is legal but not cool at all. It’s a lame way to make a super team… required no smarts, no skill, no savvy trades or draft picks, just being gifted the best player of this generation.
LAME.
More accurately, I won’t be rooting FOR the Lakers, but I’ll be rooting for the Heat to lose.
#52
Sigh...I would too.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Jul 11, 2010 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions
hopefully they wont have good 3 pt shooters
and all the teams can zone them to death.
"There was a time when this blog was for intelligent BASKETBALL fans. It has unfortunately become O-Live 2…" ~Ilikeemall
"Did they really expect me to bow down to Jesus?!?" ~Sophia
"At first glance, I saw a fairly unremarkable penis." ~Sophia on Greg Oden
by Philthyanimal on Jul 11, 2010 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions
ditto
it would be a bigger problem if we were under the cap and trying to get more FAs or if Paul Allen stops buying whatever we want. But I guess we’ll just keep spending
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Seems like a swell deal to me
I like to think it means a shake up in the point guard situation is coming.
NO! don't do it!
"..cocaine is a classy drug meant for men of finer tastes like Sr. Rudolfo Fernandez."
-AK1984
Oh really? What point guard do want to see moved?
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Jul 11, 2010 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions
because he's a very rich man at the age of 23?
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Jul 10, 2010 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I didn't think of that....
Now he’s gorgeous!!!!
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
Off Topic:
I want to see LeBron slap Cleveland in the face, after Gilbert defunks the franchise & moves them to Seattle, decades from now, LeBron buys the Kings & moves them to Akron !
Silent Swagger.
That's lame.
I like the Kings, and will soon be close by to see the games. :(
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Your new favorite poster?
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:21 AM PDT up reply actions
matthews
Matthews cool i think he could bring some needed toughness to the Blazers, but he aint worth 7 mil a year
by Blazingatrail24 on Jul 10, 2010 10:00 PM PDT reply actions
This is how I see it as well
with the caveat that if this is part of our stockpiling for a CP3 trade (bye bye Nic if that’s the case) I am good with anything that enables that to happen
Speaking of cruel, Portland fired GM Kevin Pritchard an hour before the draft. Hey, he's only a top-seven GM -- there are plenty of those. Does anyone else think Al Davis died a year ago and took over Paul Allen's body? - Bill Simmons
Can't get over the fact that Pritchard -- fired earlier in the day -- is still running Portland's draft. If I were him, I'd be in Portland's war room loudly calling other GMs and saying things like, "I have an offer for you: I'll trade you our No. 23 pick, and in return, YOU HELP ME PULL THE F****** KNIFE OUT OF MY BACK!!!!! Do we have a deal????" - Bill Simmons
by blazeraddict on Jul 10, 2010 10:02 PM PDT up reply actions
This is about STUPID
Undrafted, one year in, 7 mil a year? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? This is STUPID. Show me ANY other player getting a contract in the NBA for 7 mil a year, after his rookie year. Not even LBJ got this.
Paul Allen, thanks for tearing hope out of our hearts again. This is my final season as a ticket holder unless you get past the first round.
One mistake after another.
i wish i could have seen your reaction to the 2000 Finals.
"..cocaine is a classy drug meant for men of finer tastes like Sr. Rudolfo Fernandez."
-AK1984
Dude.....
we built a superstar filled team and choked..
funny, sounds like what’s about to go down in Miami
by jeckyll2hyde on Jul 10, 2010 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions
first round picks have predefined contracts to prevent guys from getting seriously overpaid before they step on the court
2nd rounders and undrafted guys don’t have those same restrictions. For example, Gilbert Arenas got a huge raise in his 3rd year, I believe.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Well they should...
because this guy wasn’t even good enough to get drafted. then had a shining moment out of pure luck (in my opinion).. so this warrants an overpaid contract?
I PRAY UTAH MATCHES.. AGAIN.. well, I wish we had Paul Milsap..
by jeckyll2hyde on Jul 10, 2010 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
No one is worried about the occasional 2nd round or un-drafted guy getting a big raise
it’s those first contracts and player hold outs that affect the integrity of the game.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
I don't see why his draft status or experience in the league would have that much effect on his value
He played a lot of minutes in the NBA last year. Enough to judge him on. The fact that he went undrafted doesn’t color my perception of him at all. Heck, Beasley was the #2 overall 2 years ago. He just got dumped for a future 2nd rounder.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
by dan_the_man on Jul 10, 2010 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not the best of ideas.
But we’ve done worse. Matthews isn’t that bad. Probably the best 2-guard available right now. Unless you want Richard Jefferson (ugh!). Certainly better than an old retread on the decline.
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Could have instead
spent their MLE on finding a player we can use to trade to get our grubby hands on CP3. I’m a nervous fan right now. Not like Cleveland fan though. Them poor fans. I’d be SICK as a fan.
by jeckyll2hyde on Jul 10, 2010 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe that's exactly what we're doing?
But I wouldn’t get my hopes up on that front.
"[S]ince men enjoyed very great leisure, they used it to pursue many kinds of commodities unknown to their fathers, and that was that first yoke they placed upon themselves without thinking about it, and the first source of evils the prepared for their descendants. For, besides continuing thus to soften body and mind, as these commodities had lost almost all their pleasantness through habit, and as they had at the same time degenerated into true needs, being deprived of them became much more cruel than possessing them was sweet; and people were unhappy to lose them without being happy to have them." -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
If Utah lets us have him we will not be able to trade him until Dec 30th I believe.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Jul 11, 2010 8:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Is it far fetched to think
With a little commitment Kevin Love could come close to Bill Walton’s level(Not defensively or passing perhaps) but their stats are already similar besides blocks…
Silent Swagger.
Not sure how we got to this question in the Matthews thread, but...
Yes, It’s far fetched. Love will never come close to Walton’s level.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
by dan_the_man on Jul 10, 2010 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
PPG, RPG wise
He is already very close to Waltons best season in the NBA. He will never be as good defensively or as good a passer, that I know.
Silent Swagger.
Just glancing at those stats
Walton was quite a bit more efficient.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
by dan_the_man on Jul 10, 2010 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh
And when we’re talking about big men, you can’t just discount defense. It’s a big part of their job. It’s why we drafted Greg.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
by dan_the_man on Jul 10, 2010 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Lol
He would be replacing LaMartha. No doubt Walton was more effecient though. I like Kevin Love he had the opportunity to personally work with Kevin McHale for a whole year gotta love that.
Silent Swagger.
If you're just talking about offense
Efficiency is everything. I don’t care how many shots he can chuck up. We don’t need a bigger version of Monta Ellis.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
by dan_the_man on Jul 10, 2010 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I totally texted like 5 people regarding the fact that this comparison has now been made.
"..cocaine is a classy drug meant for men of finer tastes like Sr. Rudolfo Fernandez."
-AK1984
Both good outlet passers...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Jazz
The plusses and minuses for the Jazz.
Minus: They lose good players to other teams.
Plus: They find good players out of nowhere, and Sloan gets more out of his players than any other NBA coach.
Maybe he can finally get his long-deserved coach of the year award this coming season.
Sloan will never get a COY award
because 1) he doesn’t give a crap and 2) the Jazz are never bad enough to do one of those big turnarounds that always get recognized for COY.
Uh, do you think you could draw me like a ninja?
SLCDunk.com: Bringing you ninjas, The KOOFs and anti-jinxes since 2008.
New to the Dunk? Read the Manifesto.
I did.
Now aren’t you embarrassed.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 11, 2010 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Which is ridiculous. The fact that Sloan OR Pop have never won COY make it a joke of an award to me.
Seriously, just a joke. Sloan IMHO is top 5 coaches of all time.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Jul 11, 2010 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't really like it, even if it means that Utah has to struggle.
Unless we have some kind of amazing trade cooked up in the books, this doesn’t really make much sense. Let’s assume that Utah doesn’t match because $34 million is a lot for Wesley Matthews.
Matthews is supposed to take the backup 2/3 position.
Between the 2/3, we have a plethora of players that can fill either one of both of these roles. Roy, Batum, Williams, Johnson, Babbit, Bayless, and Rudy. That is a big logjam. Even if Matthews is a marginal improvement over any possible backup for Roy and Batum, we’re overpaying for just that, a backup.
Let’s just pray that a few of these assets are pieces for a trade. This seems like overkill and waste.
Oh yeah, if Utah matches, then Utah will obviously be in a financial jam. But that doesn’t necessarily mean Portland will improve though, a fact that a lot of people seem to be overlooking.
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
After Roy/Batum
J-Bay is too small to guard 2s, Babs can’t guard anyone, Williams is 180 lbs (and a rookie), and Rudy has checked out. That’s not a reliable bench at 2/3. Of course, I like Dante at 3 but we still need D at 2.
Further, if you want someone to contribute they need to be able to offer other skills. Matthews looked like a reliable player to me. 7 mill? Maybe not. But he’s definitely an upgrade at backup 2 over Rudy and J-Bay.
I'm just not crazy about player nick names...
by Hipster Olympic Team! on Jul 10, 2010 10:46 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh yeah, if Utah matches, then Utah will obviously be in a financial jam. But that doesn’t necessarily mean Portland will improve though, a fact that a lot of people seem to be overlooking.
It should help Portland in head-to-head games with Utah though.
Although, that may not matter much, if losing Boozer turns Utah into a lottery or one and done, then Utah won’t be a threat to Portland in the Playoffs. But you can’t ever count the Jazz out.
Yes, that comes with making Utah worse.
But once again, I’m still looking to see the FO make the team better and more competitive with the entire league. Maybe a Chris Paul trade isn’t realistic, but I sure hope we can do a bit better than what we’re doing now.
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Jul 10, 2010 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't like this at all.
I Thought anthony morrow would be a better addition. In his short 2 year career, he has shot 46% from 3pt range. That’s something any team in the league could use. I’m disappointed we didn’t pursue him further after hearing we had interest in him.
*** PHIL KNIGHT IS A GENIUS ***
Do we really need 3 point shooting?
I value Matthews’ slashing more. Morrow is a very one dimensional player that can be reproduced by even some of Portland’s players.
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Jul 10, 2010 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Defense
Morrow doesn’t play defense well.
“2nd rounders and undrafted guys don’t have those same restrictions. For example, Gilbert Arenas got a huge raise in his 3rd year, I believe”
Good point, I believe Blazers locked up first rounders like Batum and Fernandez for 4 years at cheapo contracts (the 4th I believe is team option), but I guess that is shorter for 2nd rounders. However, I believe they do get those guys at least for a 2nd year at dirt cheap contracts. 3rd year I’m not sure. (should be able to tell from the salary page on hoopshype though)
there is a repy button for a reason
/////
((o))
/////
by Dep H on Jul 10, 2010 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sign Matthews
then trade:
Batum + Rudy + Przy
for
Iggy
Then win the west for the next 5 seasons.
This might be true, but people will hate you for saying it.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 10, 2010 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn't
It’s a great idea.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
by dan_the_man on Jul 10, 2010 11:44 PM PDT up reply actions
BATUM IS THE BEST BALLER EVERRRRRR
"..cocaine is a classy drug meant for men of finer tastes like Sr. Rudolfo Fernandez."
-AK1984
No, I take that back.
He’s a brand new Heat fan.
by Nick Van Excellent on Jul 11, 2010 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm a LEAT fan
A crossbreed of Lakers and Heat, but mostly Heat right now, unless they struggle out of the box.
M—
#52
matthers, who was undrafted, will just as much money next year as blake griffen, who went first
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
marty>babbitt
I've seen that mentioned a few times
I can’t see what it has to do with anything. Blake’s contract didn’t come from the open market. Matthews is a RFA.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
by dan_the_man on Jul 10, 2010 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Or if the Blazers management really hates Utah.
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Jul 11, 2010 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Kudos to Blazer mamnagement... I think.
This move proves they are not a rudderless ship without a GM. Somebody has the power to make player personnel decisions and PA still is willing to open his checkbook. UNLESS… this was all KPs plan before he left and…. I’m not going there. Anyway, good to see them not buy into the " we can’t even attempt to compete with the South Beach Prima Dona’s" talk that we’ve heard around these parts.
by 52therim on Jul 11, 2010 1:31 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Maureen Dowd just wrote a column about LeBron.
He’s a total D…but talk about transcending sport.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
Certainly didn't break new ground.
but…umm…how about that Wes Matthews kid??
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Seriously, man.
Wonder how many comments we’re gonna have disappear by tomorrows. This kinda turned junky.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:43 AM PDT up reply actions
This thread is 800 comments long
I think it’s okay if the conversation gets off track a LIL’ bit.
Plus I doubt anyone wants to wade through it to pick out the pieces that don’t belong, unless someone says something naughty. We good boys and girls though!
#52
we might get a little note from Dave about staying on topic though
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Then stop going off topic!!!
Besides saying hi to Mr. Bob, I was a good boy. If you guys get in trouble you have no one to blame but yourself and frankly, I feel you deserve whatever you get.
#52
I've never gotten a note from Dave!
Or even from a mod. This would be a fun first. I feel like a goody two-shoes about to get sent to the principal’s office. A little giddy.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
by BlazersOrBust on Jul 11, 2010 2:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Ah, but just wait 'til you get a smack upside the head.
It’s then you’ll be screaming police brutality and whatnot.
Dave makes a quick fanpost or main page thread every now and then to keep us in line
I don’t know about these mods. They never seem to do anything! Lazy mods!
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Goodnight Mort and Mag and AK.
I love all of you very much.
"One of the bright spots of the young season has been rookie point guard Jonny Flynn, whose name sounds like he should be the lead character in a Broadway Musical. "What are you doing here, Jonny Flynn?" "Why I'm here to court trouble, and woo a girl, and build the most fantastical contraption the world has ever seen!" -- Dave, Game 7 Blazers versus Timberwolves preview
"It was bad reffing...but not rip apart the fabric of time bad." -- The Arkitect, Game 79 Blazers versus Mavericks Post-Game Thread
Aww am I too late for the party?
The Kings have the best bench I’ve seen. There are easily 14 guys on this team good enough for every bench in the league. Now if we could only get some starters, I’d totally jizz in my pants.
Kings fan
by dyshooter182 on Jul 11, 2010 3:14 AM PDT up reply actions
2001 redo
Wesley Matthews is very similar to Derek Anderson was when he came to the Blazers in 2001. 6’5", good shooter, known for his perimeter D, on the rise… except Anderson’s best years were arguably behind him. Matthews is on the rise.
Stoked to see the move. Understand this is likely the end of Rudy. Just worried this is an overpayment.
If the Jazz don't match
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2ga4t4y
Then our roster looks like this for next year and we have our pg of the future…
Andre/Collison/Mills or Armon
Roy/Matthews/Williams
Batum/Babbitt
LA/Camby/Cunningham
GO/Okafor
Wes plays 2 and 3 for us, Dante can play spot minutes at 3 and 4, and Camby can play 4 or 5 depending on injuries/foul trouble.
I like that trade. I'm not so sure Nawlans' like it, unless they are that desparate to get rid of Okafor's contract.
I don’t see why they want to get rid of him so bad. He’s overpaid, but he’s a double double machine that plays good defense. What’s not to like?
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on Jul 11, 2010 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah from the blazers view
I think adding Okafor is a plus, but it sounds like NO wants to get rid of his contract. With Collison, Matthews, Batum, Oden, Okafor and Camby blazers D would be beast.
by Nicolas Pippen on Jul 11, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
I heard that the contract the Blazers have offered Matthews is front loaded
meaning he will earn close to $9mill in the first year. If that offer goes through, and your proposed trade happens our salaries look like this:
Roy: $13.6m
Okafor: $11.5m
Aldridge: $10.7m
Camby: $10.6m
Matthews: $9.0m (give or take)
Thats over $54 million to 5 guys, only 2 of which would be starters. I am all for SPAMing, and I realize one must pay to compete in this league, but paying $31million to 3 guys that are coming off the bench (Okafor, Camby, Matthews) is a little far fetched.






















