Tom Penn: Blazers Are A "Dark Horse Team In Free Agency"
Welcome to 2010 NBA Free Agency. If you're feeling a little less than thrilled with the idea of pursuing bit players like Wesley Matthews, Anthony Morrow or Jordan Farmar, former Portland Trail Blazers vice president of basketball operations and current ESPN Salary Cap analyst Tom Penn is here to provide some hope.
Not sure how I missed this earlier, but Penn was a guest on NBA.com's Hang Time Podcast with Sekou Smith and Vince Thomas immediately before last week's draft. This was also taped, it should be noted, before Penn's close friend Kevin Pritchard was officially fired as Portland's General Manager.
Penn was asked all sorts of questions about trades, free agency, the salary cap, the Larry Bird exception and more. When the show got to the topic sign-and-trades, Penn listed the Portland Trail Blazers, along with the Dallas Mavericks and Houston Rockets, as veteran teams capable of making something big happen. Penn said...
The way a veteran team like Dallas can make a dramatic move, or a team like Houston, or a team like Portland, the way they can get in the mix here as what I call a "dark horse team" in free agency. These dark horse teams can do sign and trades.
They way it would work is that one of these glamour free agents is going to go to his former team and say, "I'm ready to leave. I'm sorry it hasn't worked out for us. And I'm going to go. And I'm going to go to, let's say New York or New Jersey or Chicago, I'm going to go to one of those teams for nothing. But I'd prefer to Dallas and join Mark Cuban or to go to Portland for Mr. Allen or to go to Houston for Mr. Alexander. And I want to do that and they have what you need: a combination of expiring contracts and young talent so you can rebuild your team."
So if you take the Houston example, they can put together Shane Battier and Jared Jeffries who have one year contracts, $7 million each. That's $14 million. Then they could throw in the most improved player in the league, Aaron Brooks, and maybe a couple of first round picks, including the Knicks first round pick in a couple of years that the Knicks have given up. You get a pretty nice little package there that at least doesn't leave the team losing the glamour guy totally naked out there.
It will be interesting to see if the players and their agents attempt to broker that type of deal to get to an established team rather to go somewhere that is going to start over.
Penn also noted that teams that have cap space will be stiff competition for teams that have assets (expiring contracts, young talent, draft picks) because a sign and trade to a team under the cap can net a potentially huge trade exception. Asked how likely he thought sign and trades would be this summer, Penn said...
I think we're looking at potentially a mega simultaneous sign-and-trade. Because even if the teams that are losing players get nothing back but a giant trade exception, it's worth it, because it gives them the flexibility to build their team.
A trade exception here's how it works. You resign your own guy, your glamour guy, who has told you he's going to leave and you're going to get nothing in return, so you choose to sign him and immediately trade him to the team he wants to go to. If that team is under the cap they can just take him in and give you a draft pack back maybe or they can give you nothing back other than a giant trade exception. So if one of these guys signs for $16.6 million the team that gives him up is going to get a trade exception for $16.7 million and that's a slot they can use for one calendar year to try to rebuild their team.
Don't get me wrong, the trade exception cannot shoot rebound or guard anybody but what it can do is be a place that you can go find somebody you can put in that space who can do those things. It's better than nothing. It gives Atlanta, if this happens with them, the chance to replace Joe Johnson with some combination of players in the next calendar year.
I think you're going to see a ton of that type of activity. I think there could be enough momentum for those type of deals where maybe 3 or 4 teams do those all together and then sort out the veteran players that change hands amongst that group.
Similar to what happened during the last lockout, there was a one month period of time where we were able to freely negotiate deals. I happened to be a part of that one in Memphis where we ended up getting a simultaneous deal with 2 teams, then a 3rd one, then a 4th one and I think we had 6 teams at the end of it. It was the biggest trade in NBA history and it's because we all benefited from it at the end.
As the podcast wrapped up Penn was asked about how long it took him to learn the cap and its intricacies. He said...
I've been in the league 10 years. This will be my 11th season. Frankly, about year 6 is where I really felt that all of these things were clicking and humming. And what's hard with this is that you don't do these things but once a year. You don't have the free agent pursuit [every day] ... you wait a year to do it again. A lot of teams don't have cap room but once every 7 years. In my decade in the league I've only had significant cap room once. So you have to really roll your sleeves up and go to work on the nuances and the details because it doesn't come around that often.
It's not totally clear which year Penn is referring to, but I would assume he means last summer when the Blazers had some stops-and-starts before using their cap space to sign Andre Miller. If that's the case, Penn's statement about how infrequently teams find themselves in that situation and the need for extra studying in those cases might provide some insight into what was a hectic time last summer.
Penn's parting shot on the podcast was pretty funny (and dark) given recent history.
"Hey, look, [capology] is not that complicated. This is the old lawyer's trick. You just make it sound a lot worse than it is and then you have job security."
-- Ben Golliver | benjamin.golliver@gmail.com | Twitter
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OK ok... that's all well and good but...
Where’s my Full court Press!!
The Faith don't panic, the faith freaks out, burns out farms, and torchs small villages in the name of The Faith.
Head Czar of Amerika <--- Mortimer said so so there!!!
Sounds good.
I’ll believe it when I actually see something happen.
"Batum must be french for: being at the right place at the right time" -
-StudMuffin15 @ Rufus On Fire
"Juwan "The Clipper Killer" Howard" - Natedog1977 @ ClipsNation
" I would trade our entire team for Brandon Roy"
- Slick4President @ Indy Cornrows
by FiveOhThree-RipCity!! on Jul 1, 2010 11:34 AM PDT reply actions
When did we leave young and up and coming
and turn into a “veteran team”??
"Batum must be french for: being at the right place at the right time" -
-StudMuffin15 @ Rufus On Fire
"Juwan "The Clipper Killer" Howard" - Natedog1977 @ ClipsNation
" I would trade our entire team for Brandon Roy"
- Slick4President @ Indy Cornrows
by FiveOhThree-RipCity!! on Jul 1, 2010 11:38 AM PDT reply actions
calling all cap amateurs
Could we do a sign and trade with Toronto using LMA, Rudy, and whoever else is needed?
They will tell you that LMA is a Base Year compensation player
But they won’t tell you what that means. Maybe it is based on his old salary until his new one kicks in, practically guaranteeing we can’t get value out of him right now. I don’t know.
9/1/11 -- When the party in Pioneer Courthouse Square finally stops after our next Championship!
The concept of BYC as I understand it...
Players didn’t want to sign an extension with a team, then get traded. But not everybody deserves a “no trade clause”. So the idea is to make it so that players are very difficult to trade in the first year of their new contract or contract extension. Both Roy and Aldridge will be BYC this year, and Chris Paul was BYC last year.
When a team wants to trade a BYC player, the team receiving the player counts all of his salary coming in. But the team trading away the BYC player only counts half of it. Bear in mind that the main exception to BYC is when doing a sign and trade. The BYC status doesn’t apply to the team signing and trading said player. It kicks in with the new team.
So let’s say for instance we wanted to trade Brandon, and let’s say his salary for next season is $15 million. Half of that is $7.5 million. Since we are over the cap, we cannot take back more than 125% of the outgoing salary + $100,000. For the other team, they can’t take back more than 125% of the outgoing player(s) salaries + $100,000 . So if both teams are over the cap, then Portland would be trading a $15 million salary, but could only take back $9.475 million. The other team would need to send out at a minimum of about $12 million in contracts in order to absorb Brandon’s salary. But that is more than Portland could absorb, by $2.5 million. So that’s where a third team becomes necessary.
Rarely do teams want to trade BYC players. And in the rare event that they DO want to, it is pretty difficult.
by Rodney Gustafson on Jul 1, 2010 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't think so.
LMA’s BYC status makes this very difficult to make work. If Portland trades LMA, it counts as $10.7 million to the team receiving him. But Portland can only take back $6,787,500 (I think) in contracts for Aldridge. So then let’s say you add Przybilla to try and get Portland’s outgoing salary up closer to Bosh’s incoming salary. The problem is that Toronto is over the cap and can’t take back the amount of Przy and Aldridge’s full salary combined.
So, at that point you would need to involve a third team that is under the cap, or involve LOTS more players and salary. Involving a third team is the most likely. So let’s say Toronto gets Rudy and Aldridge, Portland gets Bosh, and a third team with cap room gets Przybilla, some draft picks, and some cash from Portland as a thank you gift. Is there a team you can think of with cap room this summer that is going to use it on Przybilla just to get some picks and cash?
Maybe there is a team that is OVER the cap, but has a trade exception large enough to absorb Przy. That’s another option. However, I think if Bosh is going to force a sign and trade somewhere, it will be Chicago or Houston.
by Rodney Gustafson on Jul 1, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I could probably figure out a deal that would work
if you get the overall package high enough, the $5 million difference beteween LMA’s incomign and outgoing salaries can be accomodated within the 25% parameters.
But I"m not going to run the numbers, because Chris Bosh has no interest in coming to Portland, so it would be a waste of my time.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
confirmation on old news
ripcityproject
Ford: Jeff Bower pulled out of Miller-Joel-Batum-Bayless-22 pick for Chris Paul before the draft
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Chad Ford, ESPN Insider:
Chad Ford, ESPN Insider: The Blazers got close to a deal with the Hornets last week that would’ve sent Andre Miller, Joel Przybilla, Nicolas Batum, Jerryd Bayless and the 22nd pick to NO for Paul before Jeff Bower pulled out of the deal saying that their owner wasn’t ready to trade Paul. The trade they made on draft night got them out of the luxury tax, so that’s no longer the issue. The issue is whether Paul is no unhappy enough to force a trade. Personally I think the Hornets can do better than that for Paul, but it’s a viable deal. As for Melo, I do think they’ll explore moving him … but not for the Eddy Curry Danilo Gallinari package people are writing about.
sounds like we were very close to getting this done
too bad, that would have been a great deal. and it isn’t bad for NO either.
Paul/?? (Blake/Dooling, etc)
Roy/Rudy
Webster/???
LMA/Camby
Oden/Camby
I think you use the MLE to get a 2/3 (and should find some willing players who would welcome the chance to start at the 3 in that lineup), and the BAE to get a backup point. Build from there.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
maybe we will make another run at it this summer
could explain all the interest in 2s and 3s. in the draft and free agency. throw some of them into the offer, use the others to fill out the roster.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Rudy Gay gets the max
WojYahooNBA
Rudy Gay has agreed to a five-year, $81.6 million deal with Memphis, including a player option on fifth, his reps at Octagon confirmed to Y!
New York is going to end up with no one to offer money to except Amar’e.
I’m calling right now – Bosh to Chicago, LBJ stays in Clevelan, Wade/Boozer to Miami
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
lol if gay gets the max there are gona be a lot of pissed off ppl
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
It's a funny year with all these players coming off payrolls and all this cap space
Really hard to imagine what all weirdness will happen.
9/1/11 -- When the party in Pioneer Courthouse Square finally stops after our next Championship!

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