Why all the hatin' on Brandon?
by Kroes32 on May 5, 2010 1:43 PM PDT
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PrintIs it just me or does it seem like there is an awful lot of criticism directed Roy's way lately? I realize that he only played in 65 games this year and there are a lot of questions regarding his health, but who's health CAN'T we question this year? Andre, Dante, Marty (who missed all of last season) and Old Man River are the only ones that I would look at and think, "Strong and Healthy." Everyone else has had some kind of issue.
What I'm confused about though is why all of a sudden there are so many people that think Roy is an overpaid, spoiled drama queen. Where were all these people last fall when Roy was in contract negotiations? All I heard then was, "He's the face of our team! Give him the max deal! Quit yankin' him around! What's wrong with the Vulcans!? Why are they doing this to him?" Have we really come that far? Is THAT Brandon all so different from THIS Brandon?
I'm all for rippin' on a guy when he well deserves it (Rudy), but I don't think that Brandon does. When you have a season like we just did, there is no consistency. How many different lineups did Nate roll out there? 20-something? How can you expect a player to find a rhythm when he's playing with a different group every night? As Dave's review shows, almost all of his numbers were down this year but yet he still gave him an A-. Thats because Dave knows how to keep things in perspective. Let's all try and follow suit.
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I think you're paying too much attention to bloggers.
I think, as exemplified by his return from injury game, and the reception he received at the RG, it’s clear he’s well loved and appreciated. Sure he’s flawed, but those failings are peanuts compared to rest of the Brandon Roy package. He’s an enormous asset. Health and defense are his greatest question marks, imo. I think next year will be more telling.
I think we're paying too much attention to bloggers.
Roy will be the superstar we know him for next season. This season was just one weird at every single aspect.
Agree!
I think Roy was ridden too hard this year. He and Andre are the reason we made it to the playoffs.
My favorite teams are the Blazers and any team that is playing the Lakers.
I was against Brandon getting the max.
I thought he should have taken a token (2-5 mil) sum less than the max to ease negotiations with the rest of the young guys. I don’t blame him though for wanting a max but I thought he handled the negotiations poorly by going public with certain aspects of it. Is he worth a max? I suppose so. As far as the Dre situation that was fairly frustrating, I understand Roy was outside his comfort zone but he has to recognize that in the NBA you must work to get your best 5 players on the floor. I think that the situation with Dre will make him better in the future plus he has got to find a way to play off the ball so he is not out of the league in 5 years (less wear and tear). It seems at times (especially games 5 and 6) our offense stagnates with Roy in the game… I think he needs to work within the flow of the offense more, this will also help prolong his career. I love B-Roy and am glad he will be a Blazer for years to come but I think we should still look at his game in a critical sense… although I agree we shouldn’t hate any of these guys except for off the court reasons (or if they aren’t giving it their all).
What did he go public with?
All I ever heard was him saying that his agent was working with KP. Am I remembering wrong?
Travis to Patty, "Why you sound like that?"
He defenitely played the stings of Blazer fans...
not saying it isn’t an effective approach it just didn’t sit right all the way with me. He was saying stuff like “honestly I don’t know if this deal will get done”, or “I don’t know what more I could do to deserve a max deal”. I still like the guy I just feel he should have kept the negotiations more private.
Hmm.
Is there a proper way to answer the questions from the media WITHOUT being criticized though? I can’t help but think that if he were to stay tight lipped, that he would be considered closed off to the fans. And they would probably be annoyed with that. The thing with the Blazers is that we pride ourselves on our culture and our “good ol’ boys” that we can relate to. I think that by letting the players talk (a little bit) more about negotiations, they are endearing themselves to the fans. Just my opinion.
Travis to Patty, "Why you sound like that?"
I suppose I can see that side too...
maybe I am old school in thinking that the business side should be private.
We as fans are the ones that pay their salary (with PA's help haha)
So for me, as long as its permitted by the organization and the player wants to, let them say all they want. … Then again, the less Blazer fan has to argue about, the better. :)
Travis to Patty, "Why you sound like that?"
People apparently are much more likely to criticize
our best players, and laud praise on other guys with much more obvious deficiencies. This causes people to actually think that these players are better (See: Batum, Nic) than they are in reality, and under-appreciate our really good players.
Expectations cause people to believe completely ridiculous and crazy things. That and people like having a narrative so instead of Nate believing in his best player, it becomes Nate and Brandon were in cahoots to hurt Andre, or other wackiness. Taking a player for granted is just part of fulfilling or not living up to very different expectations.
You're saying that they look like they're giving it their all. And you know why they look that way? Because they're bad, and it literally takes them the maximum physical effort to accomplish basic baseball tasks like throwing the ball from short to first. When David Eckstein throws the ball to first base, he has to wind up like a shot-putter, spin around forty-three times, and launch it at an angle 89 degrees from the horizontal. Afterwards, he undergoes an IV drip for a fortnight and he's so out of breath that he requires several months of acupuncture to regain the power of speech. For this we laud him. -Junior of Deadspin on 'scrappy' players
Mostly because he looked like crud in the playoffs
I’m not blaming him for getting injured, but the type of people who are active message board critics have a short memory, and the last they saw of Brandon playing looked really bad in many different ways.
The biggest problem for real though is that Roy and Miller never seemed to gel in the kind of way that they could elevate each other’s games. They played together, but I don’t think either learned to be very useful without the ball in his hands. That, and being injury prone, are the only knocks on Roy. Other than that he’s golden.
yeah
his regular season was wose than last year as well. im willing to bet every stat of his took a hit without looking. i still love b roy tho. just play bball over the summer dont come back and say i didnt pick up a ball and then play worse during the season
by deliverence31 on May 5, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
It started with him backing Blake
continued with his griping about not knowing his role (this is a coach issue IMO, but it annoyed fans none the less), was heightened a bit by the ‘why can’t we keep what worked last year’ comment and ended with the ‘you go get yours’ conversation he had with kobe at the all-star break. All that stuff made him seem selfish to folks. i get it. I don’t really agree with it, but I get where they are coming from.
(Honeslty most of this falls at coach Nate’s feet. It is his job players know their roles and the direction of the team. it is obvious his allstar did not know either for a while.)
I think Dave put it best at the end of his BRoy review:
One of Roy’s biggest questions: evolution as a team player (not because of selfishness, but learning the Superstar cha-cha of involving others while still getting one’s own)
many of us perceived Roy bashers are simply saying that as you add talent to the team, as we have, having all these more talented guys stand and watch Roy in ISO makes no sense. Roy’s game needs to adapt a bit. Our offense should be keyed to him, the hard part is finding the balance we need to take advantage of our other assets. finding that balance will be what moves the Blazeers to the next level.
Running the offense we have the last two seasons will not get us there and some people may seem aggravated that Roy sounds like the leading advocate for maintaining the status quo, or at least he seems to be the reason why Nate wants to maintain the status quo offensive system not many people believe will win a championship.
Roy is aw4esome, he is the face of our team, the offense should be keyed toward him and yet he needs to adapt and grow some too, and he seemed resistant to the idea early in the season.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
by PDXBuckeye on May 5, 2010 3:40 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I agree...
Roy needs to follow Kobe’s lead and learn to be a true leader. I think he will do that.
As I see it
he can go the Kobe route – adapt his game to whatever talent he has on the floor. No matter what you can say about Kobe, adaptability seems to be his key trait. He is always the principle as it were, but he morphs into the space provided by the talent around him, he fills the need the team has well.
Or he can go the LeBron route – work to make his teammates more effective players on the floor.
Both approaches have their merits.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Talk about a narrative that has taken a left turn!!!
Kobe as an example of leadership?….This is the same guy that tries to take over games at the expense of the rest of the team…throwing up his 40 inefficient points …and losing. He does what you say….but only sometimes…and falls victim to the one man gang syndrome way more than Roy ever did. Please Brandon…don’t look to Kobe as your guide post
Phil Mickelson: "A Great shot is when you pull it off.....a smart shot is when you don't have the guts to try it"’
by 92wastheyear on May 6, 2010 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
he has 4 titles. probably 5 after this year.
i hope roy plays like him…and leads like him. no one in the league outworks kobe EVER.
by deliverence31 on May 6, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Three of which he got with a team built around Shaq.
The 4th was after he finally learned to trust his teammates and not try to win it himself every close game.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
by timg56 on May 6, 2010 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I ried pointing out how it wasn't until last season that kobe started trusting his teammates.
Guess people prefer remembering things in a way that supports their theories, rather than as they actually occured.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
See my response to Escrote below.
Your recollection of history seems to be rather skewed.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
huh?
Granted, I will have a hard time getting over my dislike of the Lakers, but you’ve got to be joking right?
Kobe is many good things, an amazing athlete, intense competitor, great scorer and defender, and a hard worker…
but the dude is really mercurial, shows up his teammates every game, acts entitled, and regularly “shuts it down” when people don’t sing his praises. He comes off as a total phony to me.
That, are the all-white wanna-be 2Pac photo shoot.
Holding out for Hedo
You do realize that it was not until last season that Byrant really started to ...
… trust his teammates and get them involved. And he had been in the league how long to that point?
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I just don't think that Brandon talking about the obvious struggles
this team was having in Nov, should be considered whining. I hear that over and over that he was complaining. I read the quotes, watched the vidoes and saw him play too. When reporters asked him specific questions, he was simply stating what we already knew. And since he confirmed his frustrations verbally, thats considered “whining”. What if he were to choose not to answer the questions? Then we’d be all over him for dodging the questions and causing even MORE speculation as to what was going on. That’s even worse off.
All in all, I guess I just hate the highs and lows that come along with fan opinions. Roy has a good streak and he’s AMAZING – the next Michael Jordan. Then he gets injured, limps onto the floors for a few games and suddently everyone’s complaining.
Travis to Patty, "Why you sound like that?"
by Kroes32 on May 5, 2010 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
right
I agree with you, in general, I was just trying to answer the question you posed. I don’t think playoff struggles count toward what seemed to get under a lot of folks skin.
I also wanted to point out that some people do love Roy but are getting painted as haters because we say his game needs to changee a bit to fit better with the talent that has been acquired.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Ok, I gotchya.
And I would never go so far as to say that a player shouldn’t have to adjust his game because he’s “just that good.” Roy hasn’t peaked and there will need to be improvements, but I’m surprised by the number of Blazer fans that seem to have a issue with him. There will always be a few here or there, but they seem to be coming out in force as of late.
Travis to Patty, "Why you sound like that?"
I could be wrong,
but wasn’t there a point early in the season, (it was reported), that LaMarcus and Roy had a mini-meeting with Nate about “getting theirs.” Or specifically that they’d still get the same touches like last year. This was in response to the emergence of Oden, I think. This could be perceived as “whining.” Or, it also could be the Nate thing again with no clear roles and definitions for his roster.
I remember that as well
but fundamentally the problem is threefold:
1. The offense was out of sync in November and was not improving game to game.
2. Instead of clarifying roles Nate seemed to just tinker with line ups and just telling players to get Greg his touches.
3. So with problems 1 and 2, I can understand Brandon and LaMarcus’s point.
That situation was a coaching fail in my estimation. Your Allstar player should never ever be confused as to what their role is. They should be featured, played to their strengths. That said the coach defines how the talents ought to be exploited, if there is confusion, it is on the coach.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
But many on this site espoused the opposite
Your Allstar player should never ever be confused as to what their role is. They should be featured, played to their strengths.
I saw over and over again, that Brandon should have to bend his game to accommodate Dre…instead of the opposite
Phil Mickelson: "A Great shot is when you pull it off.....a smart shot is when you don't have the guts to try it"’
I would love to see a poll on this question.
I think you’re spot on with this thought. Which should it be? Obviously there are many different things to consider, but ultimately I would have to lean towards highlighting Roy’s strengths. He needs to get others involved and make them better too, but when push comes to shove, Roy’s offensive style shouldn’t be threatened by a player who’s style doesn’t compliment his.
Travis to Patty, "Why you sound like that?"
If I remember correctly
it was on a plane ride back from a pre-season game against the Clippers.
Sucking at darts is not a super power
I recall seeing someone mention in another post (the hollinger one I believe) that ...
… Portland utilized the isolation play about 11% of the time.
That sure doesn’t sound like a lot to me. Is it at all possible that fans don’t often understand what they are looking at and therefore are subject to making errorneous conclusions? I know that I certainly am not expert in understanding every facet of what goes on during a particular play. For one, I tend to follow the ball, just as the cameras do. Meaning I’m likely missing 70 – 80 % of what is going on elsewhere on the court. For another, I found that I learned all sorts of stuff when Ben would do his isolation pieces and breakdown the video.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
and the general mood has been down
I think it is related to all of the injuries this season. Even though Roy did great, the constant paranoia about injuries just colored the mood araound here.
We actually had a great year at my office for example, but we, and our clients laid people off so it does not feel like as much of a win as it normally would…same sort of thing at work with being a Blazer fan this year. Amazing accomplishments this season are overly tempered by the injury woes.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Roy
Roy great, just needs to be a better teammate, him giving miller the cold shoulder to start the season wasn’t warranted, he only wanted blake to start because blake fit better with him, thats a selfish move, its about who the team plays better with not just roy, other than that he’s the man, but idont ever see him playing 82 games
It's the internet
When a player’s doing well, everyone’s all WOOHOO HE’S GREAT
When a player doesn’t do well, it’s a knee-jerk TRADE HIM HE SUXXXXXX
I see the same thing on here w/ Nate. When we win, everyone’s happy, despite the fact that the offense may have ran poorly due to Nate’s poor planning. When we lose, everyone all of a sudden jumps on Nate and demands his firing.
People need to get over themselves.
That last sentence may be one of the best you've ever posted.
A couple of things us fans should never lose sight of:
1) It’s only a basketball game.
2) None of us have ever had to “walk in their shoes”, meaning we probably don’t know what we are talking about much of the time.
3) It’s only a basketball game.
If people can’t appreciate what they have without being so critical all of the time, perhaps that’s a sign they need to find more meaningful interests.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Cause he becomes less and less of a team player as time goes by.
In Bayless I trust.
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Can you give more detail to back up that comment? Perhaps Roy felt that he needed to take control more because of all of the injuries/illness, but your comment without some real evidence to back it up as a long-term issue seems a bit of a stretch.
Dave's entire post on the front page provides evidence that Roy's assists have steadily decreased over the last two years.
His turnover rate has increased and he is less efficient (a sign of chucking normally).
During this time most people would agree his supporting cast has actually improved.
Why the failure to improve by Roy while his options have improved?
In Bayless I trust.
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Haha
he is less efficient (a sign of chucking normally).
I am sorry…but his FG% say otherwise…… 06/07 .456—→ 07/08 .454——> 08/09 .480 —→ 09/10 .473
He is many things….but “chucker” is not one of them
Phil Mickelson: "A Great shot is when you pull it off.....a smart shot is when you don't have the guts to try it"’
but he is less efficient. my only beef is that he came into camp saying he did not touch a bball.
if youre gonna do that then your game had better not get worse from last year. because i bet Kobe touched a ball. I bet Lebron touched a ball. If were gonna treat Roy like a superstar then lets hold him to the same standards.
by deliverence31 on May 6, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Sure he is.
I also hear he’s shrinking. In a couple of seasons the guy is going to be a 6-2 shooting guard. What good is that?
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Can you give more detail to back up that comment? Perhaps Roy felt that he needed to take control more because of all of the injuries/illness, but your comment without some real evidence to back it up as a long-term issue seems a bit of a stretch.
I think that the amount of reaching and stretching people on this site are doing to criticize Roy is unfathomable
"Seek the wisdom of the ages, but look at the world through the eyes of a child."
-Ron Wild
Probably because many here ..
… have the wisdom of a child but are looking at the world through old eyes – i.e. eyes that aren’t very good anymore.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I think he may have raised everybody's expectations
last year when he was arguably a top five player. Specifically at closing time. When you have a season like that in year three, it is reasonable to expect yr four to be epic. but, he got payed, came out of the gate jogging, and never really regained last yrs form with the exception of a month long stretch during the middle of the season.
Right now, injury or not, roy is not a top 5 player and everyone expected him to be.
That may be why he is getting a lot of criticism.
Heightened Expectations
1st- I like BRoy, this is just a constructive criticism of his play IMO.
He signed a MAX deal and my expectations of him changed. To me, he is now held to a standard of other MAX players or other Top 5 player that some super serious BRoy supporters claim him to be.
BRoy’s issues this year that I found lacking were
1) IMO, lackluster start to the season
2) in the media had some questionable comments- I am paraphrasing but “if I play well, then LA, Rudy…follow”. The, I did not pick up a BBall in the summer comment. The Blake love. To be honest, no team starting Blake at PG is going to be a title contender. (While I like Dre better than Blake, after seeing the playoffs, no team starting Dre at PG will win either, his lack of an outside shot too much of a liability for a legit contender). He did not seem excited about integrating GO into the starting rotation. At times, some of his comments came across as a little out of character.
3) he did not seem to attack the rim this year with the same fervor of 2008/09 and settled for a couple of dribbles, pump fakes and then shot.
4) defense- I find his defense below average at best. In a league of super freakish athletes, I think it is fair to say that BRoy’s athleticsm is below average.
5) hustle- when you think of hustle players on the Blazers, BRoy does not jump to mind. For his position, you would think that when we do fast break, it would be BRoy that would be flying up the wing, getting the pass and throwing down. This might happen occaisionally but not that often. LA runs the floor better than BRoy. To be fair, if you watch ONLY BRoy for a game, he is not a flying around the court type of guy, running the break type of player…he is definitely comfortable in a slow 1/2 court style of game
The hustle guys are probably thought to be Rudy, Pryz, Batum, Bayless…
6) Leader- BRoy shows very little emotion during the game. I would like to seem him become more of a vocal leader that shows some fire at times. I think this helps get others going when times get tough and other get tight. Don’t take this for yelling all the time, but I believe he needs to evolve his leadership skills. Even an emotional high 5 when another player does something good more often can help build positive energy.
7) BRoy, while showing a lot of grit coming back to the playoffs, was more of a liability in game 5 & 6 and IMO, should have kept himself out once he realized that he could not offer in his limited capacity what lesser players were doing on the court.
8) this year seemed to plateau for him. He should still be on an upswing with his ability and improvement for a few more years.
I think all players have aspects of their game that they can improve on.
Lebron- outside shot is below average, settles for the outside shot too much for his ability and I wonder about his “killer instinct”.
So, I would hope that some readers of this or other posters can differentiate between BRoy criticism. For some, any post that does not state BRoy is a Top 5 NBA Player and can do no wrong = poster is a Blazer fairweather fan.
IMO, these are my critiques of BRoy. I think others post critiques and some fans go nuts thinking BRoy has absolutely no flaws. Someone up above posted BRoy being the next Michael Jordan…with all due respect, BRoy is not the next Jordan (arguably the greatest of all time).
The real question is not what fans think of BRoy (pro/con) it is, if BRoy is “the man” for the Blazers, can a BRoy led team win a championship considering that for BRoy’s career, he will be competing against
D.Wade- 2 years older
Carmello- only a few months older than BRoy
Lebron- a few months younger than BRoy
and other stars (D.Howard, Durant…)
by keeweekid on May 5, 2010 10:06 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
That how Blazer fanboys work
they feed on hate
Logical descriptions of complex worlds contain within themselves the seeds of their own limitation. A world that was simple enough to be fully known would be too simple to contain conscious observers who might know it.
by Sexual Tyrannosaurus on May 5, 2010 11:22 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I thought they fed on fatty fanposts.
In Bayless I trust.
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rec
this was my favorite part
I’m all for rippin’ on a guy when he well deserves it (Rudy), but I don’t think that Brandon does.
I prefer environment with constructive criticism, not rippin’ on someone for poor play. Then I realized that environment isn’t on the internet.
I suppose "rippin'" wasn't the right word but you know what I mean.
If you wanna criticize Rudy, be my guest. Marty had a rough month up until playoffs. Bayless went through a dry spell after his breakout game in Texas. LaMarcus had a rough patch (even though I don’t like a lot of the heat he has taken either – but that’s for another post). I feel there is a legit reason with those guys. But it just really irked me that people were hounding Roy for a lackluster season when all you have to do is step back and look at the big picture. This season was CRAZY. I personally am not reading into much of anything this year other than the fact that it proves these guys have heart.
Travis to Patty, "Why you sound like that?"
We can try to put it on there.
What kind of environment were you looking for?
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
yeah, i agree
Rudy does deserve a lot of the backlash he is getting. He needs to stop being a P-U-N-K and step up his game. He had his chance, and he blew it. Horribly. On another note, I don’t think Brandon deserves it. Most of the guys don’t deserve it considering this season.
DEFENSE - - - DEFENSE
That is my only complaint. He needs to have the attitude, “I can score on you anytime, and you will not score on me.”
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