Sunday Discussion: King James Version
by Dave on May 15, 2010 10:58 PM PDT
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Immediate Disclaimer: I am not one of those who thinks Portland has any chance at getting LeBron James. I haven't spent much time worrying about that issue any more than I've spent time worrying what I'd do if a meteor containing thousands of Reeses Pieces, hundreds of gold doubloons, and a suddenly-single and completely besotted Tina Fey hit my house. However this discussion goes a little beyond that, taking into consideration your perception of the Blazers, so...
Let's pretend that you were the Blazers' GM and on Sunday, May 16th, 2010 you fielded the following phone call:
Hey, it's Danny Ferry from Cleveland. We're in a tough spot with this LeBron thing. His agent tells us he's lost confidence in us and he's not coming back no matter who the coach is, no matter who else we get. He does want to give us the opportunity to pursue a sign-and-trade so we can get something back for him. He's given us a list of teams he'd consider. Ideally he either wants a great chance at a championship (preferrably multiple) or a place that can afford him plenty of extra ad revenue. He's sketched out a couple places he thinks would be fantastic to live and included their teams as well even though they might not meet either of the first two criteria. I'm calling you because you're on his list. Obviously it's not for the ad revenue and (no offense) he's never considered Portland as an ideal living place, so you'd have to fit firmly in the title-winning category. If this deal is going to go down he has to be convinced you've left championship pieces around him. However you're also competing with almost two dozen other teams making offers to us. From our end we need your absolute best shot the first time. We're going to lay out those offers on a table next Friday and take one (in principle, anyway). You have until Wednesday to get your proposal to us. We'll be willing to work on salary details, extra players, third teams...whatever. Don't worry about the cap thing for now. Just give us talent-for-talent the player package you'd be willing to trade away for LeBron. Hope to hear from you soon.
So, if you got that phone call who would be on your offer sheet? You need to trade away enough talent to beat every other team in the sweepstakes but retain enough talent to make LeBron's path to the title all but assured. Remember that salary doesn't count for now. Obviously you can't trade away $40 million in salary for him but short of that figure Cleveland and perhaps some third parties would be able to make it all work.
Share your offer below and explain why you think Cleveland would like the players you sent and LeBron would like the players you kept.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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I would offer
Jeff Pendergraph -A really tall power forward. Remember how they got annihilated in height by Garnett? Not any more.
Joel Przybilla – Expiring. If he comes back, he could be a valuable piece in the center position.
Jerryd Bayless – Young, great for a rebuilding team
Martell Webster – Young, sharpshooter on a good night, quick learner. Great rebuilding piece.
We would probably get Lebron and some cheap benchwarmer just to fill things out.
I'm gonna be the only A-hole that owns a Nic Batum jersey that doesn't live in France. Awesome.
I'm going with the latter. It made me chuckle.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on May 16, 2010 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Danny Ferry: "Done. Sign right here."
This deal is too sweet. I think we should sign and trade Sergio instead of giving up Bayless.
facebook.com/year5000
by Y5k on May 15, 2010 11:28 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
that is way too much
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
team>players
by thomasikehara on May 16, 2010 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions
be serious
it’d take two of “THE” three. So who do you part with? Which one pairs best with Lebron to bring a title. I have no clue so I’ll just say I don’t like James. He is a massive prima donna, a crude oafish social bafoon and a ridiculously physically gifted athlete that when paired with the right teammates will be damn near unstoppable. I personally look forward to meeting him in the championship series and crushing him. So GO get healthy, LA get nasty and BRoy get stronger, you’ll need it. Oh and Rudy, make a commitment to somewhere and blossom.
by doomsdaymachine on May 16, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
hehehehe
hilarious!
I'm just not crazy about player nick names...
by Hipster Olympic Team! on May 16, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm way late to the party...
…so I’m gonna do kind of a jerky thing and reply to the first poster in the hopes that maybe somebody reads this epic post I’m about to type.
These offers where Batum or worse is the best player offered are the product of pure, blind homerism. You don’t have to give up equal value to get LeBron in a sign-and-trade, but you DO have to give up players of value, because you won’t be the only team making a play for him and you’ve got to stand out. Because the Blazers are a deep team, they can afford to absorb the loss of a few key players and still field a very good team with LeBron. So even though it hurts us as fans to stomach losing players we’ve seen grow up in front of our eyes, it’s something you have to do to have a realistic chance at getting the best player in the game (and he IS the best player in the game, by far, even if this year’s playoffs left a tiny smudge on his aura).
To my mind, you’ve got to keep Brandon Roy, for myriad reasons. He’s the face of the Blazers, his new contract makes trading him difficult, but the most compelling reason is this: Brandon Roy and LeBron James NEED each other. Roy relishes being the guy to take the last shot, but he needs a true partner to keep defenses from completely collapsing on him. James doesn’t seem to relish the last-shot responsibilities as much (though he’s certainly proven himself capable in those situations), and again, he needs a wing man. If those are your two best players, it doesn’t really much MATTER who your supporting cast is after that. Yes, there’s always going to be the “Oh, there’s only one ball” or “Oh, they both need to handle the ball all the time to succeed” arguments, but the fact is, you need more than just one elite player to win multiple championships. Roy has always felt like Scottie Pippen to me, in that he’s a perfect second banana: He doesn’t have the athleticism to beat all comers off the dribble and split double- and triple-teams, but he’s good enough to win most one-on-one battles, and is a crafty defender when he tries. Having his scoring burden lightened will allow him to focus more on the defensive end, making him a better all-around player.
So assuming that Roy is the only untouchable on the Blazers’ side, that means everyone else is in play, with one more wrinkle: If I’m Kevin Pritchard, I want Mo Williams along with LeBron. Williams is, despite his rough season this year, everything Portland has been looking for in a point guard. He’s the more athletic Steve Blake, which is what you’re going to need at PG with Roy and James dominating the offense. He can be the Derek Fisher/Ron Harper/Steve Kerr in this equation.
Also muddying the waters here is the Greg Oden situation. I have no idea what kind of trade value to assign to a former number one overall pick who’s shown flashes when healthy but is often hurt. I don’t know if any team would want him, but I can guarantee that for any other team, he holds less (maybe far less) value to them than he holds to the Blazers. However, given that we’re insisting on keeping Roy in this scenario, the prospect of trading Oden is real. But I can’t pretend to know what a “good” trade for him would be, nor can anyone else. I can reasonably surmise that Portland would likely be willing to give up EITHER Oden OR Marcus Camby in a LeBron trade, but not both.
That means our trade is headlined by LaMarcus Aldridge: Great talent, non-alpha personality, plethora of offensive moves, all the talent to succeed on defense, but none of the tape to back it up. He is a steep step down from LeBron James, and Cleveland knows it. That means that Portland will be giving up a king’s ransom to make this trade seem at least somewhat balanced.
So now, rather than looking at the Blazers are willing to give up, I’d like to ask what Portland is going to have to keep, assuming that this theoretical trade is being built around Williams/Roy/James in Blazers uniforms.
I say, when it’s all done, Portland should plan on being left with:
1 of the following:
Andre Miller
Jerryd Bayless
1 of the following:
Martell Webster
Rudy Fernandez
Nicolas Batum
1 of the following:
Greg Oden
Marcus Camby
1 of the following:
Jeff Pendergraph
Dante Cunningham
This assumes that Przybilla’s expiring contract would be included in any deal, to help Cleveland recoup some of the money lost in ticket sales after James is traded away.
So, worst case scenario for the Blazers, this leaves them with something like:
PG Williams
SG Roy
SF James
PF Cunningham
C Camby/Oden
The bench as constructed probably features Bayless, Webster, and a couple veteran free agents. Maybe a Euro callover. That means the offer then is:
LaMarcus Aldridge
Greg Oden OR Marcus Camby
Nicolas Batum
Rudy Fernandez
Andre Miller
Dante Cunningham
Seasoned with cash and 1st rounders to flavor.
Does that leave the Blazers cupboard bare? No. Does it leave the ranks thinned and roles crystallized? Heck yes. And it leaves the Blazers with two of the best players on the planet, on the same team, surrounded by role players and veterans willing to fall in line around them. You restock the ranks with veteran free agents every couple years and go out and compete for championships every single year.
…At least, I think so. :)
by trevorthegreat on May 16, 2010 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Absolutely agree...
Wrote something similar below (although not anywhere near as clear). Keep Roy and whatever pieces are left over from the trade. Pick up veterans, draft picks, and euros as needed to fill out roster. Should be able to compete, offer a more than fair package, and add some rings to the collection.
I think you contradict yourself
you DO have to give up players of value, because you won’t be the only team making a play for him and you’ve got to stand out.
To my mind, you’ve got to keep Brandon Roy, for myriad reasons.
An offer to the Cavs without Roy is going to be discarded immediately. I guarantee other teams would offer their best player in a Lebron trade so thinking that we can get away with not offering Roy violates the top quote.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
You may be right...
However the caveat to this whole thought experiment is that LeBron must agree in principle to the deal. To me that says that LeBron is going to make the final determination moreso than the Cavs. He is the one that is giving his ‘alma matter,’ Cleveland, the opportunity of getting some value for him when he could just walk and leave them with nothing. LeBron doesn’t come here if Roy is leaving. Plain and simple.
"Phoenix has got to take over and win it in 6. Letting Portland hang around is a bad idea. The Blazers are like zombies that won't die. You never want to get down to your last shotgun shell against a bunch of zombies." - Dave
No...
YOUR assertion is that Brandon Roy is the only player of value the Blazers have. I made the top quote (“give up players of value”) in response to those posters that were throwing out offers centered around Batum and Fernandez as the central pieces in a theoretical deal. At no point did I say that the Blazers were required to give up their best player. And even if other teams are willing to give up their best player in a deal, the overall quality of such a deal likely couldn’t match the quantity of good young talent Portland would be able to offer, in addition to a very talented player on the rise in LaMarcus Aldridge.
by trevorthegreat on May 16, 2010 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Camby not eligible
I don’t think he can be traded until December, can he?
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!
You started to lose me at "we must keep Brandon Roy" and then totally did so ...
… when you argued for acquiring Mo Williams.
If you are James ( or for that matter, any other player) choosing Portland starts and ends with Greg Oden. A healthy Oden. But because most people are hesitant to place all of their eggs in one basket, we can’t just stop there. Were I Lebron, I’d like some insurance, just in case Mr. Oden goes down again.
Here is who I’d like on the same roster in his position:
A big who can stretch the floor and demand double teams, at least part of the time. Say someone like LaMarcus.
A wing player like Nic Batum who is young and shows great promise at both ends of the floor. A player that can shoot the 3, thus creating opportunities for me to drive and who will be effective at stopping our opponents at the other end.
I’s probably like a PG who can shoot from distance, is smart, can both run the offense or operate off the ball when I’m the primary ball handler and is a decent team defender. Hard nosed would be a plus. Someone like, oh, I don’t know…. Steve Blake.
Because of the question marks surounding Joel’s return, I’d hope my new team keeps Camby. But a return of Pryzbilla is acceptable as a backup to Oden.
Now, were I Cleveland, Roy would be the starting point. I’d want at least one other heavy rotation player – one capable of starting, and at least one guy with lots of potential. I’d insist on at least two future first round picks as well.
If you are Portland, do you make a deal if both Roy and Aldridge are the price? Maybe, because of Oden. Same if the price is Roy and Batum. But I think you put such a deal at risk from James’ prospective. He’ll want those two guys staying in Portland if he signs here.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
then we trade lma for bosh
then miller and filler for parker
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
team>players
by thomasikehara on May 16, 2010 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Missing the Key Point
The Blazers wouldn’t need to give up Roy or Aldridge or maybe not even Batum to land Lebron. Why? Because it’s completely the King’s call as to which team he wants to join.
The chances he’ll look at Portland are remote for all the obvious reasons. But, if by some wild chance he can be lured by the potential “championship window” or Nate or Paul Allen or whatever the reason is, then it will up to Cleveland to either play ball or lose him for nothing.
I’m not saying ‘Bron would sign for the exception, but he’s free to do whatever he wants. It’s his decision.
So, just for the dream of it, say lightning strikes and he chooses trying to hang a banner in the Rose Garden. He approaches the Cavs and says, “I’m going to Portland, leaving the Eastern Conference, it’s where I want to be. Let’s do a sign-and-trade.”
Now the ball’s in Cleveland’s court. Tell him no way, or let him go West and get some value in return. They won’t get fair value or anything close, but something’s better than nothing.
I’m not exactly sure what the maximum is for Lebron to sign in year one, but the sign-and-trade salaries have to come close. The following might not quite match up, but this at least seems close:
Greg Oden
Martell Webster
Joel Przybilla
Shoot, maybe you throw in Rudy, too. Or Bayless. Or Pendergraph Whatever to make the salaries match.
But those first three run about 16-17 million next year, right? Is that about what Bron can sign for in year 1? If it is more, you add a little more to match it up.
The Cavs would get a Ohio favorite in Oden, who if nothing else has upside. If he continues to get injured or is a bust, you let him walk. But who knows, he still could be a dominant center. Certainly worth taking a shot with definitely an asset in a trade.
The Cavs also score a potential starter in Martell who also has upside. He can and will get better and maybe a change and a starting gig would do him good. And you get Joel’s expiring deal.
Is that worth Lebron under normal circumstances? Not even close. But that package is something I am guessing Cleveland would go for if their hand is forced. They do get bad or long contracts and they get some major potential. And if you need to toss in a Rudy or a Bayless to put it over the top, you do that.
Again, this is all a pipe dream because Lebron has to choose Portland. That seems very unlikely. But that’s what it revolves around, not what sort of package you can put together involving Roy or LMA, etc. It will be Lebron’s choice and if a miracle happens and he would ever pick the Blazers, they have enough talent to get it done w/o compromising their core.
They’d just need to use their mid-level to sign a backup center to Camby and they’d be in the title hunt…..barring another crazy injury season.
by Golden Ladder on May 17, 2010 12:58 AM PDT up reply actions
The more interesting discussions re LeBron James to me is what Dwight Jaynes brought up: The failure of iso offenses in the playoffs
If LeBron can’t get it done, as the Blazers coaching staff you would have to think long and hard if 4 players watching Roy operate can get it done.
by Norsktroll on May 15, 2010 11:12 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
You mean ... Teamwork?
Nobody’s tried that since 1977.
facebook.com/year5000
by Y5k on May 15, 2010 11:30 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Your position here is that the 1976-77 Philadelphia ‘76ers were more team-oriented than the championship Portland team of that year?
…
And that the other four Blazers watched Walton go to work solo?
…
I’m not sure i have the expertise to argue against that, being as I was quite young at the time, but from what I have read/heard/watched the Portland squad was a cohesive unit of quick passing help-defense hustlers while Philadelphia was relying too heavily on the high-flying Dr. J. Now that could certainly be wrong. Like I say, I’m not expert nor B-ball historian.
…
then again, your “gotcha!!!” may have been a sincere term of agreement, at which point my assumptions about your comment are incorrect. Hard to tell.
…
Either way, I must agree with Norsk that Championship teams do/will use iso offense, but far less than wanna-be champs. I think we may be getting beyond those days to a degree, despite what you may here about Mr. Durant.
facebook.com/year5000
My offer
I would offer:
Roy, Przybilla and his expiring contract, and Bayless
or
Aldridge, Przybilla and his expiring contract, and Bayless
I wouldn’t enjoy it as much because we would have to part with some of my favorite players, but from purely a basketball, wins-and-losses standpoint, I would do it. I think either of those trades gets us a championship—or four.
Kevin Pritchard
There’s rumors he’s on his way out, anyway, so let’s solve two problems at once.
First, they’d want Brandon, but they might be talked into LaMarcus and Nic instead. I’d actually give them a choice of deals, one built around Brandon, one built around LaMarcus.
Brandon, Martell, Joel, two first rounders, and cash. If they wanted a Euro or two, I’d throw those in, too.
Alternatively, LaMarcus, Nic, any two of Martell, Joel, and Rudy, first rounders, and cash. Euros also available.
I wouldn’t actually want either of these deals to happen, but they would both almost certainly make us instant top contenders.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!
by jscot on May 15, 2010 11:13 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I am the biggest Oden fan, but...
Pryzbilla’s salary, Oden, Batum and Rudy in a heartbeat. I’m sure that it would take more than this.
It is easier to tell them who we need to keep
Roy, Oden, Camby , Jerryd, Nic……..they can have any or all of the rest
Phil Mickelson: "A Great shot is when you pull it off.....a smart shot is when you don't have the guts to try it"’
I hate it, but I think any deal would have to include Batum.
Then he would have the impossible job to replace the King at SF.
by parkinglotj on May 15, 2010 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions
They can also have Camby, Jerryd or Nic.
Nic would be especially expendable since LeBron is a SF, even though he plays 4 positions to be honest. Anybody but Greg and Brandon. LeBrons true problem is he has no 2nd star player to help. Mo williams is good but hes no pippen to LeBrons’ Mj. Pair Brandon and Lebron together (along with Gregory in the middle and we would be pre-ordering championship rings every october. However, this is LeBron we’re talking about. It’s not like we’re just trying to get CP3 or D-Will, so really, anybody on the roster is available.
I would offer:
LaMarcus Aldridge
Nicolas Batum
Joel Przybilla
Martell Webster
All of our draft picks for the next 3 years (or however many years is legal in a trade)
$30 million cash.
It might sound like a lot, but this is for a future top 3 player of all time, and the Cavs will be getting wildly outrageous offers for him. Paul Allen has deep pockets and he obviously isn’t afraid to utilize them, so if he could get LeBron, the $30 mill. would be nothing to him.
This deal I proposed would give us a lineup of
PG: Andre Miller/Jerryd Bayless
SG: Brandon Roy/Martell Webster (I forgot about Rudy so I would replace Martell with Rudy in the trade)
SF: LeBron James/Dante Cunningham
PF: Marcus Camby/Dante Cunningham
C: Oden/Marcus Camby
That would definitely be good for at least 3 or 4 titles. Although I might start Dante rather than Camby at PF cause Oden is already starting and if they both started, it would clog Roy and James’ driving lanes like Shaq did/is doing in Cleveland.
I wanted to keep Camby for defense and insurance for Oden (playing backup C and PF)
I wanted keep Oden for defense ….same for Nic and Jerryd. Roy for scoring
Lastly I envisioned LBJ playing PF
That team should be a deadly defensive team with plenty O from 2 unstoppable guys.
Phil Mickelson: "A Great shot is when you pull it off.....a smart shot is when you don't have the guts to try it"’
by 92wastheyear on May 16, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
I want to DEFINITELY keep
Roy/Bayless
Oden/Camby
Aldridge/Cunningham
Batum
I want a healthy Joel back in our line-up if it is at all realistic. Other than that, the homer in me could possibly withstand parting with all of the rest.
Obviously LeBron is quite a player. Already a legend in the NBA. But (just from a personal point of view) I am not a big fan of his team game, I am not convinced that I would enjoy watching him play as much as I would enjoy watching a Blazer TEAM.
I am not explaing myself very well but, I would be very wary about any trade of this caliber.
we can still win........
No one! LeBron has more EGO then all of the Northwest.
He’s a chucker & a choker. Give me a healthy Blazers & maybe Steph Curry. Lionel Hollins as coach & KP as GM with a new contract! Now I’m happy!
Somebody step up! - Mike Rice
by We-B-Dunkin on May 15, 2010 11:24 PM PDT reply actions 5 recs
Mostly agreed.
As terrific as Uncle Cliff was he always choked in the play-offs. It appears that Rudy might be the same. Looking at the last three Celtics and Cleveland games, IMO a chucker and a Choker hits the nail on the head.
I don’t know if I agree with you on a new coach, but then I can’t disagree either. I like both coaches. my heart goes out to Lionel Hollins because he was one of my favorite players in our championship year.
I would rather have CP3 then Steph Curry but then I think both or impossible to get.
I also think you are right about LeBron having more EGO then all the NW. All one has to do is look at the USA team in the Olympics and watch him every time the cameras focused on him and Kobe. Kobe was there to support and watch the women play and James was there to get attention. You could see it in his eyes.
I will repeat your statement NO ONE
hg
Absolutely agree on LeBron
After watching him quit on Cleveland against Boston I simply would not want him if they gave him to Portland and he would sign for minimum salary. He might be the best basketball talent in the world but a weak heart makes all that talent poisonous.
I would rather continue to build in Portland around the standard of culture first and then talent KP has so successfully instilled in Portland. We do not need or want the “playing for me” players.
I do not agree about the lust for a different coach. If everyone is healthy and we still cannot show progress in the playoffs then I might feel differently but in my opinion this coaching staff just produced the finest coaching ever seen in an NBA season by producing 50 wins with over 300 player/games lost during the season and playoffs. For further proof, see the opinion of the USA Basketball organization in selecting Nate for the first time ever to coach with the senior men’s team for an additional 3 years. That 6-year period is unprecedented and an amazing honor. When the best players in the country want your coach to coach them on the world’s biggest basketball stage you want to pay attention to and appreciate the privilege of having that coach devote his talents to the Blazers as well.
Agree
Jordan was 28 when he won his first title. I guess he was a selfish choke artist for not being able to get past the Pistons in the late 80’s. I agree with Simmons that LeBron doesn’t have the killer instinct of Michael Jordan, but he is, hands down, the best player in the NBA right now. I love this Blazers team, but it’s really really really hard to win a title without Top 5 talent…and Portland doesn’t have Top 5 talent.
by pistil_stamen on May 16, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Do you want the best player or a Championship?
He was the best player for Cleveland, what did it get him. In fact his last three games looked as bad as BRoy’s without one leg.
hg
What good did it do him?
Great Stats amd a loss equals the same as poor stats and a loss. Again ended up not being much better then Roy with one leg.
Do you want the best player or a championship? Can you have both? Not with James alone.
hg
hg
he was refering to this quote of yours...
In fact his last three games looked as bad as BRoy’s without one leg.
. And no, they didn’t.
Do you want the best player or a championship? Can you have both?
. Yes, this is possible – Jordan, arguably Magic, arguably Bird, arguably, Shaq, and then Bryant.
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
even his game 5 was better than roy's games 5 and 6
when lebron sucks, he still puts up good numbers
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
team>players
by thomasikehara on May 16, 2010 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions
No - the 2nd most physically talented I have seen but not the best player by far
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Bill Russell
Michael Jordon
Bob Cousy
These guys had the talent and the will to dominate under any conditions. They earned multiple championships by never ever quitting. They were the best ever to play.
Wilt Chamberlain
This was the most talented player ever to play the game.
Oscar Robinson
K*be Bryant
Jerry West
Shaquille O’Neal
Hakeem Olajuwon
These guys were immensely talented and every year posted great numbers and all won championships but they all failed to will their teams with greater talent to win even more championships.
LeBron James
He is alone right now because his body of work is so incomplete. But LeBron is show and flash and appears to be seeking personal glory to the detriment of his teammates and the absence of championships. His problem is not the talent of his teammates. The first list above of players each includes championships without having the best talent in the league. In Wilt’s case only one year in which he subjugated his talents for the 76ers to play team ball. These are the best players ever to play in the NBA. LeBron does not belong on that list. Until he changes his mindset or teams with a leader who he respects enough to follow he is never going to win. It is the way I see it.
From watching old basketball clips on YouTube, I noticed Bob Cousy was weak at going left ...
with his dribble, put up inefficient shots, played during an era of flat-out awful perimeter defense, and lacked athleticism. Oh, and by the way, we can’t forget that Cousy played most of his career during a period wherein NBA owners colluded with one another to impose an unwritten quota of no more than 4 African-American players per team, which lasted until 1963. On the other hand, though, it’s difficult to compare eras, particularly the late-40s/‘50s/early-60s to the mid-’60s and beyond.
You might want to watch more
There was no 24 second shot clock and I remember countless games when the Celtics were leading in the 4th quarter and Cousy would simply dribble away for any attempt to catch him – at times 5 guys chasing him and he went any direction he wanted without losing his dribble. And many of these were playoff games. He was a superb passer and a superb ball handler. The NBA did not score steals but my memory (admittedly declining) was they came in bunches (see defensive win shares). In Basketball-Reference’s Hall of Fame probability he ranks 6th all-time!
Honors
1947-48 NCAA AP All-America (3rd)
1948-49 NCAA AP All-America (2nd)
1949-50 NCAA AP All-America (1st)
1951-52 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1952-53 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1953-54 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1954-55 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1955-56 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1956-57 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1957-58 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1958-59 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1959-60 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1960-61 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1961-62 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1962-63 NBA All-NBA (2nd
All-Star Games
1951 NBA
1952 NBA
1953 NBA
1954 NBA
1955 NBA
1956 NBA
1957 NBA
1958 NBA
1959 NBA
1960 NBA
1961 NBA
1962 NBA
1963 NBA
MVP Award Shares
1955-56 NBA 0.123 (3)
1956-57 NBA 0.365 (1)
1957-58 NBA 0.028 (6)
1958-59 NBA 0.173 (4)
1959-60 NBA 0.176 (4)
1961-62 NBA 0.007 (8)
1962-63 NBA 0.011 (8)
Defensive Win Shares
1956-57 NBA 4.7 (2)
1957-58 NBA 4.6 (3)
1958-59 NBA 5.4 (2)
1959-60 NBA 5.9 (3)
1960-61 NBA 6.3 (4)
1961-62 NBA 5.6 (3)
1962-63 NBA 5.1 (4)
Career NBA 48.7 (41)
From what I've seen, perimeter defense in the NBA during that era is worse than in ...
high school nowadays. Jerry West and Oscar Robertson could’ve translated eras, but not Cousy. While Cousy was a flashy passer who could facilitate an offense, he couldn’t play a lick of one-on-one perimeter defense and gambled for steals on nearly every play
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bwfV8BFl1A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDa9HLaLIpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5C-uzTRKRM
Let's turn the question around.
How many of today’s players would have thrived back then?
Too often the tendency is to make the standard of comparison today’s. How do you think some of today’s players would do if travelling or physical contact was called according to the rule book? What about guys who shoot 37% from behind the arc, but have no mid-range game, when there is no arc?
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Dwayne Wade would blow past those guys and dunk it every time down the court.
And Tim Duncan would abuse Bill Russell. And Rondo would lock down Cousy one on one. The game may have “devolved”, but the players of this generation are just so talented as well as physically gifted.
As far as Cousy, I saw him go left a ton, but he never dribbled with his left hand. It was all his right hand, dribbling out in front of his body. Anyone with quick hands should have picked is pocket every time. This is a silly discussion.
"I don't feel like I'm going to be happy or complete until I'm an All-Star. My favorite example is that it took Chauncey six, seven years. And Chauncey's been a mentor for me, and I've learned a lot from him in these last couple years. So, people can say what they want, but I'll get the last laugh. " - Bayless
Look, timg56, I enjoy watching basketball clips from the '80s, '70s, and even ...
some from the late-‘60s; however, basketball clips from the ’50s and early-’60s are a chore to watch no matter how you slice it.
Now, I did grow up watching this sport in the ‘90s — with the Seattle SuperSonics run to the 1993 Western Conference Finals being my first major exposure to the sport — so there might be some bias here. That aside, though, there’s flat-out no denying how unathletic and unskilled players were in Bob Cousy’s heyday, even if you want to argue that the game was more pure back then.
Oh, and if you want to discuss numbers, the league average shooting percentage during the 1961-1962 NBA season — which was the year that the Boston Celtics v. Los Angeles Lakers NBA Finals clip is from — was a paltry 42.6%.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1962.html
This past season, however, the league average shooting percentage was 46.1%. So, if my math is correct here, 46.1% > 42.6%. Sarcasm aside, though, I’ll at least acknowledge that the 42.6% from 1961-1962 isn’t as brutal as the FG% from the late-40s & 1950s.
Note that I did not say anything about better.
In fact, I did not even make a statement one way or the other about how I thought today’s players would perform back then. I was simply referring to perspective.
My personal opinion is probably pretty well. They would have to adjust their game to how it was played and officiated, but eventually sheer size and physical ability would come to the fore. At 6-6 Brandon Roy would be a fairly good sized SF and on par with some PF’s. (I may have picked a bad example, as I also think Brandon’s overall game would fit in better.) Playing the 2 he could simply shoot over his opponent much of the time and have the advantage down low as well.
To me, the key would be mental. Could a player make the mental adjustments to play the game the way it was played back then, while still figuring out how to take advantage of the edge in physical size and atheleticism they would enjoy. The tendency is to look only at the latter and assume it overwhelms everything else. I disagree with that premise.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Yeah, it's hard to compare players across eras. Regarding non-post ...
players, the time when guys came about who certainly could’ve translated to today’s game began around the late-‘50s/early-’60s. Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Oscar Robertson, and John Havlicek are a few of those guys.
Who, however, would they all be comparable to today? Well, here’s some best-case scenarios I came up with off the top of my head.
Elgin Baylor = Carmelo Anthony
Jerry West = Steve Nash (Efficiency) + Kirk Hinrich (Combo Guard Style & Lockdown Defense)
Oscar Robertson = Dwyane Wade
John Havlicek = Manu Ginobili
West was the hardest one to find a modern-day comparison, since there’s nobody who’s exactly like him. Nash doesn’t fit, for he’s worse on defense and better at running an offense than West. Hinrich doesn’t fit, either, for West was a more efficient scorer.
Though, if you account for the evolutionary increase in athleticism over the past several decades, West is closer to Hinrich than Nash by a long shot.
And, although this clip doesn't have to do with Bob Cousy, I must say that watching ...
any basketball highlights from the mid-’50s — with “highlights” being an oxymoron here — makes me want to douse my eyes in a vat of acid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eU1izu3Brk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd01oRq0k10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgidfaNKsWo
I wouldn't want him
First, any team that includes LeBron will run way too much ISO. I HATE watching a team run ISO. Plus, they tend to not perform well in the playoffs.
Second, LeBron is basically a GM in Cleveland. He has to approve of every player and coach that he plays with. There is a problem with this: he isn’t a good GM. Until he can step back into the role of being exclusively a player, I think he will ultimately hurt his team.
Finally, I just don’t like him. I loved seeing Boston send him home for the summer.
by andyisnumerouno on May 17, 2010 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions
he didn't quit
this is ridiculous. Players that “quit” don’t somehow magically find their way to 19 rebounds in an elimination. They don’t take 21 shots, and use massive amounts of energy driving the lane, trying to get people involved by having quit. He certainly didn’t play as well as he has all year, but credit Boston with playing exceptional defense.
Did you watch the last 10 minutes of game 6 or all of game 5?
LeBron got his numbers, yes. And Boston played good defense, yes. But there was still a going through the motions quality about his play. Watch the tape and watch LeBron and contrast him to Paul Pierce and Rondo and Garnett. They were all in all the time. I admit being influenced by Charles and Kenny Smith and the game announcers. They were all in agreement that LeBron was not playing for Cleveland. He was detached. When you see K*be or Jordon while their teams were behind – they willed their teammates to win. They encouraged and pushed and set them up for success. Just my take on the games.
I watched the game
these excuses are crap. He DID the same things he always does, they just weren’t working, and his teammates went into disappear mode.
Those were observvations by former players and coaches not excuses
If you had watched some of those other players I posted above you would have seen the contrast as well. I agree that none of his teammates showed up. That did not mean LeBron should quit. He was not supporting them. He was not berating them. He was passive to them on the floor and in the timeouts. Every team LeBron plays with take their lead from him. He is not a bad player. He is not the player that will take Portland to a championship. This was his year. Coach Brown took the axe but he is only responsible for what he can do and LeBron cannot be coached to be a better leader. LeBron had to have that competitive fire inside.
Ah Portland fans
He is not the player that will take Portland to a championship.
You can’t post with em, you can’t post without em.
by as11osu on May 16, 2010 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Seasoning
It reminded me of K*be in his middle-years, when you used to see him try and superman it, fail, and then yell at his teammates for the stupid mistakes they made.
I think the announcers read too much into the overarching narrative of an expiring contract. I strongly doubt that LeBron “quit” in those games, but he and his team did get beaten pretty badly. That has a lot more to do with their strategic decisions and failures to adjust than it does with his individual psyche.
My guess is James will become truly dominant in the next four or five years, which is when Jordan and many other “greats” hit their stride, as he matures and finds a better supporting cast/coach.
by Outlandish Josh on May 16, 2010 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, you may be right and he finds that place inside of him that wants to compete against a better team
But it was not there at the end this year.
I watched the whole regular season game when Denver went to Cleveland and Carmello went toe to toe with LeBron. It was an amazing game with heroics by both players (40 and 43 points). I did not see that LeBron in these two games The body language was clearly different in games 5 and 6. But it was still the pouting of a 14 year old and not the 2-time MVP.
the question is
why did his teammates go in to disappear mode?
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
I am not anti Nate by any means.
I was hoping for Hollins before Nate was hired, I don’t no how long Nate will be our coach but when he does go I hope the Blazers give the L-train a shot.
Somebody step up! - Mike Rice
John Calipari, Derrick Rose, Chris Bosh/Amare Stoudemire/Carlos Boozer/David Lee and Joakim Noah would be the wrong answer, right? ;-)
Well then… John Wall, Courtney Lee/Terrence Williams, Bosh/Stoudemire/Boozer/Lee and Brook Lopez?
Getting off subject a bit
I thiink if Lebron sat back and looked at which team was set up to help him win a championship, while getting a max deal, and being near a major market, then I think the Nets make the most sense. They have the cap to sign Lebron and Bosh. They currently have Devin Harris and Brook Lopez, and will have a high draft pick. If they end up with Wall, then they deal Harris for a SG – if they finish 2nd in the draft, they keep Harris and draft Evans. They have a new billionaire owner, who will likely spend a lot to try to build a winner.
I believe Lebron is highly concerned about making as much money as he can – wants the sponsorships, to be a global icon. I think if he leaves his state, he will seek a high profile area – I think if the Knicks had the Nets situation, it would be a much easier decision for him – I get the feeling he likes the idea of seeing himself wearing the Knicks uniform – to be in New York, however this will be hard move for him because of their personnel….but New Jersey is close to New York – close enough to live in one city and play in the next. Chicago also has it’s possibilities. It may have also been easier had Cleveland actually won – he could have given his city/state a championship and then said it was time to move on to another challenge.
Could be right.
The Nets was pretty low on the totem pole on win and losses, but with Lopez and Harris if you add LeBron and Bosh what better way to feed an Ego then going from nowheresville to Championship contenders in one year. His global Icon dream would be there.
That would be one heck of a team but being as how I am a horrible homer they wouldn’t be as good as the PTB.
hg
No way NJ is above Chicago
With the moves they made at the deadline this last year, it’s hard to put anybody above the Bulls in what they have to offer, as long as they go out and get a coach that has a playbook a little more innovative than the straight up 1-4 set. As Norsk said, Rose, Noah, Hinrich, Gibson, and Deng make Chicago look really good…plus, if they trade Deng and sign a veteran to back up James they could sign Amare or Boozer and they’d be stacked.
Then again, I’ve never been a true John Wall believer, I think Courtney Lee is garbage and Devin Harris is just a less efficient Brandon Roy. However, the NJ owner could just give LeBron one of his yachts to sweeten the pot…
Not so sure about Chicago
It’s a trend among many, to think Chicago, however Lebron likes New York, and as stated above, he could live in New York and play in Jersey. I also like Robin Lopez and think that he, Harris, Bosh (I think a key if he were to sign with them) and a top pick, plus MLE to bring in depth, would make the Nets a pretty good team.
i would keep
travis diener, patty mills, jeff pendergraph, dante, and our draft picks this year, bring over the euros.
I’m sorry but, championship or no championship lebron’s value to a franchise has been estimated at around $100 million per year. You trade whoever they want for than man from a business prospective.
Mine would be:
Roy, Przybilla, Rudy
Proud supporter of Martell 'The Definition' Webster
by mannyfresh1 on May 15, 2010 11:38 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I'd add Martell to that list.
CKTK: A music blog. We write about what we want to write about.
"Newspapers are an important part of our lives. Not to read, of course, but, when you’re moving you can’t wrap your dishes in a blog."
-Stephen Colbert
Oden (their new local hero), Batum (positional dynamic youngster), Bayless (so they don't get throw under the bus)
This is the line I go to as far as where I’m the least willing to do it, but where you just kind of have to, and where it’s the most they’d probably be offered and could thus salvage their city and fans.
Technically this is pretty equal with this offer (Roy and Aldridge) for LeBron, but LeBron wouldn’t go to THAT team.
I don’t think Aldridge and Batum is enticing enough for them. Getting the local guy to perhaps resurrect his career where he left off is huge. I think Oden would be a very nice, good local guy feel for them. They may not like what happened, but they can get excited around rooting for the big fella, just like we have.
by as11osu on May 15, 2010 11:43 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Thought about Oden as well
Not a bad proposal given the criteria of the question.
That sounds realistic. The reality is that LeBron will tell them where he has decided he wants to go, and then the owner or GM Ferry if he’s still there can ask him and that destination team if a S&T can be worked out. Not sure if it’s really interesting/important to James, since he’ll probably just sign a 3 or 4 year deal again anyway. And not sure if the Cavs even would want to help James or the receiving team by doing a S&T or say no to that in principle.
Until James has made that decision and says he wants to leave, the Cavs won’t file any offers for him anyway.
On 7/8/2010, I expect that we'll see the following sign-and-trade deal.
FROM CHICAGO & TO CLEVELAND
Luol Deng ($11,345,000)
James Johnson ($1,713,600)
Taj Gibson ($1,117,680)
2011 First-Round Draft Pick
2013 First-Round Draft Pick
2015 First-Round Draft Pick
2017 First-Round Draft Pick
Future First-Round Draft Pick (Via Charlotte: Top-14 Protected In 2012, Top-12 Protected In 2013, Top-10 Protected In 2014, Top-8 Protected In 2015, & Unprotected In 2016)
2013 Second-Round Draft Pick
2014 Second-Round Draft Pick
2015 Second-Round Draft Pick
2016 Second-Round Draft Pick
2017 Second-Round Draft Pick
Cash Considerations ($3,000,000)
FROM CLEVELAND & TO CHICAGO
LeBron James ($16,568,908)
That’d leave the Cleveland Cavaliers with the following roster next season.
C: Anderson Varejao
PF: Antawn Jamison
SF: Luol Deng
SG: Delonte West
PG: Mo Williams
C: ?
PF: Taj Gibson
SF: Jamario Moon
SG: Anthony Parker
PG: Daniel Gibson
C: ?
PF: J.J. Hickson
SF: James Johnson
SG: Danny Green
PG: Sebastian Telfair
Regarding all of those draft picks going from Chicago to Cleveland, I think the Cavaliers will have some leverage by LeBron James telling Jerry Reinsdorf and co. to clear enough salary cap space for the Bulls to sign another maximum-level free-agent — such as Chris Bosh, Amar’e Stoudemire, or Carlos Boozer — otherwise, he’ll go elsewhere to New York, New Jersey, et cetera. Oh, and with regards to draft picks, first-round selections can’t be traded in consecutive years; additionally, no draft pick can be traded more than seven years in advance.
If I'm Danny Ferry, I wouldn't move LeBron James to a divisional rival like the Chicago Bulls ...
in a sign-and-trade deal—unless I could get a major haul! Even if LeBron James left for nothing, it’d either be to a team in another division — such as New York, New Jersey, et cetera — or, if it’s still the Bulls, that’d at least prevent Jerry Reinsdorf and co. from pairing “The Chosen One” with another maximum-level free-agent outright. And, to be frank, I doubt Luol Deng would be a highly sought after commodity in a hypothetical sign-and-trade deal with Phoenix, Toronto, or Utah. As it is, those teams would let its star players — Amar’e Stoudemire, Chris Bosh, and Carlos Boozer, respectively — leave for nothing before taking on Deng’s contract..
This is why I think that the L*kers have a real shot at LBJ
Cleveland has no interest in keeping LBJ in the east. They may be forced to deal with an eastern team when LBJ picks the team he wants to go to. Why would LBJ sign outright with a team and lose all that money? A sign and trade is sure to happen.
LeBron James won't play second fiddle to Kobe Bryant. Not only are the Lakers out ...
of the equation — although Mitch Kupchak could possibly swing a sign-and-trade deal of Andrew Bynum to Toronto for Chris Bosh — but so are the Clippers. Without a doubt, the City of Angels isn’t big enough for both Kobe & LBJ.
Sure it is. The Lakers' BUDGET isn't big enough though...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
If offered the opportunity, Dr. Jerry Buss would foot the bill for LeBron James.
Again, though, Los Angeles just isn’t big enough for both James and Kobe Bryant.
Not sure I buy that.
If you truly believe you are the best at what you do, you seek out the very best to go head to head against.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Yet, if LeBron James won a title with Kobe Bryant as his teammate, it might ...
devalue the accomplishment in the eyes of some fans. Now, while I contend that James’ on-court production clearly makes him a superior player to Bryant, there’s tons of Kobe homers out there who’ll incorrectly argue otherwise.
For James, his legacy will be weighed in part by who his teammates are with him. If James wins a title with teammates like Chris Bosh, Derrick Rose, and Joakim Noah, then he’ll be deemed the unquestioned leader by the masses; however if James gets a ring with Bryant in Los Angeles — or even Dwyane Wade in Miami — then it’ll be thought of as a dual effort instead of him carrying his team to victory.
What about the idea of K*obe for LBJ?
I bet LA would love to go younger.
"I come to you now, at the turn of the tide." -- Brandon "Gandalf" Roy, April 24th, 2010
Kobe has no trade clause
He has final say on trades he would say no way I want to go show how much worse I am then LBJ by taking his team next year and losing
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on May 16, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
You could have the Bulls offer that deal to Cleveland for James
and then they could turn around and offer Hinrich for Bosh. If either or happen, they could add both Bosh and LeBron to the mix and still have Rose and Noah. If they’re able to do both these deals, they’d essentially have those 4 players locked in, on top of having 11-12 million left to spend under the salary cap.
Plenty of viable options left with that money, and they could legitimately get slight discounts on the rest of the market boasting the Championship potential of the roster.
I doubt the Toronto Raptors would want to take back Kirk Hinrich in a sign-'n'-trade deal for ...
Chris Bosh. The Raptors, though, could swing a simple sign-‘n’-trade deal for Bosh — which’d occur after the LeBron James transaction — wherein he’s sent to the Chicago Bulls for the draft rights of whomever John Paxson/Gar Forman took with the 17th pick in the 2010 NBA Draft (e.g., James Anderson). That way, the Raptors would get a young asset who’d play immediately and, more importantly, garner a $16,568,908 trade exception to use at a later date sometime during the following 365 days.
right...
but that trade doesn’t allow you to sign LBJ outright should Cleveland not be willing to sign and trade him. I think a package of Deng/Hinrich/Gibson and their 1st rounder is enough someone will take it. Divide it up and maybe both teams take it. There are a lot of options here. I’m still inclined to say that New Jersey is the better destination should they win the lottery, but this Chicago team with a start of Rose/LBJ/Bosh/Noah is scary good too.
A part of me thinks LeBron James will force his way out of Cleveland through some ...
sort of sign-and-trade deal, particularly due to the financial benefit it’d bring him via larger annual raises. And, since James could be selfish enough to ultimately pick New Jersey over Chicago based solely on Cleveland’s preference to move him out of the division in a sign-and-trade deal, Danny Ferry may play that card against Jerry Reinsdorf’s minions in an attempt to extort the Bulls for tons of assets.
Then again, this scenario is assuming James is so focused on his monetary status that he couldn’t play alongside Chris Bosh if #4 was earning larger annual raises than him. It might not matter one bit, though.
YOU can't trade more then 3 years in advance
"Knowledge will get you from A to B. Creativity will get you anywhere." Einstein
by Garden of ODEN on May 16, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't subscribe to the "player who brings you a title" theory.
Sure adding one guy can make a significant difference in a team. Had Portland beaten the Pistons, Bulls, that player would have been Buck Williams. Yet who, then or now, would call Buck Williams as the guy to bring you a title (other than me, but I’ve had Buck as a charter member of my pantheon of sports heroes since his Maryland days).
Still, if I was James and had to pick one Blazer to be teamed with, Greg Oden would be that guy.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Travis Diener max
And I would be pissed if they accepted.
I’d prefer to laugh at them til they hung up
"We Believe" - Rudy Fernandez
by TheGreatMon on May 15, 2010 11:45 PM PDT reply actions 6 recs
nice!
Elitism - It's lonely at the top. But it's comforting to look down upon everyone at the bottom.
by thankyouforblaze on May 15, 2010 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions
rec
Geriatric Dunk Squad!
1/4/10 - Juwan Howard dunks on Chris Kaman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTkOqDgLb6s
3/7/10 - Andre Miller Tomahawk jams on the Denver Nuggets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-JVgm7F1QA
4/12/10 - Marcus Camby drops 30 and 13 on OKC to cement 50 wins. http://www.nba.com/blazers/media/camby_chant_041310.mp3
by Eat Politicians on May 16, 2010 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay for the fun of it...
Lebron would play SF, so you could include Batum in the deal. I think you would then need to throw in LeMarcus, and then Rudy or Bayless, and then to make the finances match up, add Joel.
It would still keep the nucleus of Brandon and the hope of a healthy Oden, Marcus Camby and Andre Miller would be there for at least one year. Would then need to look at a FA for a starting PF – although I really don’t see one that could be signed for the MLE – maybe have to make a deal with either Bayless or Rudy (the one you didn’t trade for Lebron) and either try to move up in the draft and get lucky with the play of a rookie PF (pretty good position for this years draft) or deal for a player such as Jason Thompson from the Kings. Then look at some of the FA guards to sign for a MLE.
I would
keep Roy, Batum, Oden, and Bayless.
Trade Martell, Pryz, Rudy, LaMarcus, Camby, Dre, etc.
I’d like to get Gibson in the deal too. Anyways, we trade away 35 million or so away, take on 25 million or so. It’s a pretty sweet deal for both. I’d love to keep LA, but that probably wouldn’t happen, so I’m willing to give him up if need be.
Elitism - It's lonely at the top. But it's comforting to look down upon everyone at the bottom.
by thankyouforblaze on May 15, 2010 11:47 PM PDT reply actions
IF LEBRON IS TRULY WANTING TO CONTEND 4 RINGS EVERY YEAR..PORTLAND
IS THE PREMIER TEAM. He wants to go to a team with an all star already in the fold. Batman…meat your Robin in Brandon Roy. Truly would be the closest thing to jordan and pippen since well………………..Jordan and Pippen!
TRADE**************************************************1. Cleveland receives (2) First rd draft picks plus cash considerstion
2. Cleveland receives SG Rudy Fernandez.
3. Cleveland receives SF Nicolas Batum
4. Cleveland receives PG J.Bayless
5. Cleveland receives C Joel Pryzbilla
Kenneth Lewis Moore
My Offer Sheet...
Would be empty. I don’t see anyway you could offer enough to Cleveland but at the same time keep enough that would make Portland a “championship contender” in the eyes of LeBron…or make him consider signing in Portland over any other city.
I don’t want any part of LeBron, especially if his effort in the last 5 minutes of Game 6 is any indicator of what’s to come.
you start with Batum and Aldridge
Get at me. I'll be the one rockin' the game worn Rudy jersey baaaaybeeee!!!!!!!!
I got love!!!!!
##
by Sir-1 on May 15, 2010 11:53 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
commenting on the blackberry gets on my nerves
Anyway, Lebron makes Batum expendable so you can make him and Aldridge the foundation of your offer. After that I would add Joel, Rudy, and Miller. That group could be a playoff caliber starting 5 in the East and it comprises several appealing elements for Cleveland. Of course there is young talent with Batum, Aldridge, and Rudy. There is also talented expiring contracts with Joel and Miller. These are guys that can help you win next year but they will provide flexibility after that with about 15 million coming off of cleveland’s cap. We could also sweeten the offer with cash and/or picks and Euros.
On our end; we keep Roy and Oden to start with Camby and a resigned. Steve Blake who we get with all, or part, of the midlevel. I was never a big Blake fan but with Lebron and Roy we don’t need another facilitator and Blake would be a good fit. I would also try to bring back another shooter in the deal. Someone like Daniel Gibson would work. Then that shooter would come off the bench with Bayless, Martell, and Dante, who would back up both bigs and could play with Oden or Camby. We also have Pendergraph as another big and Mills as another gaurd. I then re-sign Juwan to fill out the roster and keep his veteran leadership around the team. I think that group would be the favorites to win the title next year and for many years after that as Camby is the only key guy on his last legs and power forward is one of the easiest positions to fill.
Get at me. I'll be the one rockin' the game worn Rudy jersey baaaaybeeee!!!!!!!!
I got love!!!!!
##
by Sir-1 on May 16, 2010 12:14 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Roy + Oden + Rudy for LBJ
Yup this price hurts. But we’re talking about trading for one of the greatest players in HISTORY. Among 10 all-time best single-season PER, LeBron already has 2 at the age of 25. MJ had four and Chamberlain had three.
It’s fairly safe we would (and could) sign Blake back after this trade. We’re left with:
PG: Miller/Blake
Wings: LeBron/Batum/Webster/Bayless
Bigs: Aldridge/Camby/Przybilla/Cunningham
This is not a very explosive roster I know. Even though the package I offered have some serious injury concern, I am confident it would bear out almost any other offers on Ferry’s table.
Sorry...
…you lost me when you mentioned a suddenly single and completely besotted Tina Fey. What were we talking about?
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
by Krang on May 16, 2010 12:04 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
You are joking
but OK. The meteor also has Nasim Pedrad inside. Neither of whom can be traded for LeBron, by the way.
—Dave
What just happened??
In Bayless I trust.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
One cliche that holds up extremely well is ...
… beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I’d add that “beauty is not only measured with the eye.”
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Gimme me a break...
I’ve always had a weakness for intelligent funny women.
One of my earliest Pre-Adolescent crushes was Diane Keaton because of Sleeper and Banana’s.
Okay, I know I’m sick…I need counseling.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
We don't want a bazillion guys who gotta have the ball
So my first guy out the door is Roy. Next I’d feel out if they’re thinking rebuild or retool and give them a choice of Bayless or Miller. Finally, offer them
their choice of Greg/Joel/Marcus.
Done. You then have Bron/LMA/Batum and either Bayless or Miller + two bigs to bring you a title.
LMA would play the 4
In this situation, I think Batum would play the 3 and Lebron the 2.
If were assuming LMA is taking a shift at 5
Most of the time leave that to przy and MC
by prezofdeath on May 16, 2010 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions
James and Batum can play together as two swings.
No reason LeBron can’t play as a 2. He started out his rookie season as a PG. Nic can guard SG’s and SF’s equally well.
LA and Cunningham are your PF’s, with the option of signing a vet as well (Juwon even).
Oden’s your center.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I can count on you to offer a realistic understanding.
I wouldn’t make the claim outright that Roy and James couldn’t operate together, but I’d have questions. Then consider that Cleveland would have little reason to make this deal if Roy wasn’t coming back to them and I think we have the scenario with the greatest liklihood.
One point I think I’d disagree with – I wouldn’t give them a choice on which center. I keep Oden. I happen to think he’s the critical piece for convincing James to agree.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Yup
LBJ + Nic is Jordan and Pippen 2.0
the John paxon and Dennis rodmans we can find along the way
by prezofdeath on May 16, 2010 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Didn't you hear?
LeBron is no longer a Jordan level player, doesn’t even have the potential anymore. He is Dr J 2.0. One of the finest basketball minds of our generation said so.
All because he lost in the second round deal with an injury (something he’s never done before, whether it was serious or not) and who knows what else….completely justified criticism IMO
Nicolas Batum AKA Mr. Third Quarter
On Josh Smith "He's strong as a 2nd curtain"
On Lebron "...it's hype, he's not a defender"
On Aaron Brooks "He's tiny, he has a small body but he's super fast and has a real gesture"
On Steve Nash "First we'll have to try and stop this Canadian guard, a young kid with a bright future!"
On Defense "They all piss me off with Dwight Howard...Guys like Bruce Bowen or Ron Artest were legit defensive men of the year. For me that's the profile of a denfender.
On The Playoffs "I don't want Dallas to win because I don't want Rodrigue to be NBA champion, I would be pissed. I don't want him to be NBA champion in his 1st year, this bastard....I put myself in mode asshole!"
lebron is more like magic than MJ
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
team>players
by thomasikehara on May 16, 2010 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree
Was referencing Simmons. Apparently he is Dr J with some Magic and Bo Jackson thrown in. Not a killer though and needs another superstar to win a championship.
Could be true but to judge all of that based on one series…..bit lazy IMO
Nicolas Batum AKA Mr. Third Quarter
On Josh Smith "He's strong as a 2nd curtain"
On Lebron "...it's hype, he's not a defender"
On Aaron Brooks "He's tiny, he has a small body but he's super fast and has a real gesture"
On Steve Nash "First we'll have to try and stop this Canadian guard, a young kid with a bright future!"
On Defense "They all piss me off with Dwight Howard...Guys like Bruce Bowen or Ron Artest were legit defensive men of the year. For me that's the profile of a denfender.
On The Playoffs "I don't want Dallas to win because I don't want Rodrigue to be NBA champion, I would be pissed. I don't want him to be NBA champion in his 1st year, this bastard....I put myself in mode asshole!"
most players need another superstar to win a title
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
team>players
by thomasikehara on May 16, 2010 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions
LMA, andre, bayless, rudy, marty, joel, dante, 3 million in cash, draft picks
the lebron, roy, batum, camby, oden lineup would be unstoppable
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
team>players
I like this
It’s a lot to give up but I love what we’d be left with.
"I come to you now, at the turn of the tide." -- Brandon "Gandalf" Roy, April 24th, 2010
nothing?
we would have 5 guys on our team.
by RoyBoy2004 on May 16, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Euros, MLE, draft picks
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
This thread is like going to a strip club. It looks promising until you realize you can’t touch the girls.
"You know, when you are in the game, you hear 20,000 people behind you, you don't feel anything."
- Nicolas Batum on playing through his shoulder injury during the 2010 playoffs.
by halo_on on May 16, 2010 12:58 AM PDT reply actions 6 recs
Ha!
then you see the girls in the daylight and notice the bruises and track marks. no thanks.
facebook.com/year5000
Yes, really.
That’s why the lights aren’t too bright in there.
"I come to you now, at the turn of the tide." -- Brandon "Gandalf" Roy, April 24th, 2010
LOL
And by the way, great quote and nickname for Roy.
Barrett: You are going to score 35 tonight.
Bayless: Ya think?
MB off by only four, my oh my.
by thenatural007 on May 16, 2010 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions
People here frequent strip clubs?
I’m shocked.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
A self taught man.
Just one more thing to like about you.
My excuse is I was there as part of a graduate research project.
BTW – are things still going well between you and Mike’s mom?
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
This comment reflects a widely held and largely inaccurate stereotype.
I apologize for my OT response, but I think it is a public service to address this issue.
I confess that during my younger years, especially during the dark years of my long, sad, lonely first marriage, I spent a fair amount of time in the clubs. I never messed around with any of the women outside of “work,” but I got to know quite a few.
Yes, there are some who fit the stereotype of “sexual abuse victims” and “substance abusers,” but by and large the women in the clubs are pretty darn “normal.” They reflect a broad cross-section of women in their twenties and thirties. Some are just young women experimenting and trying to figure out what they want to do. Some are using dancing as a means to support themselves through some type of school on the way to a better career. Many are single moms who are just trying to support themselves and their kids in a way that is better than working at McDonald’s or some other similar dead-end, service sector job.
Our society would be better if we did less to stigmatize the women who work in these places and more to educate the men who go there that these women are just people and not sexually promiscuous, garbage to be used and then thrown away. Whether or not such clubs are a healthy expression of human sexuality is an extremely debatable topic that I won’t even touch on for the moment, but the commonly held stereotype is clearly a social evil.
by upper left corner on May 16, 2010 5:17 AM PDT up reply actions 7 recs
Indeed, many dancers are fine people. NONE I've ever met are as lusty or lusty-hot as they are in a dark room after 5 beers.
That’s all I’m saying.
facebook.com/year5000
Great points, upper left corner, I think there are a lot of misconceptions about that industry, its workers, and its clientele. Precious few are willing to write a comment standing up for dancers for fear of being perceived as sleazy, but you’ve managed to write a great confessional and done a fine job humanizing the industry without coming off in an unfavorable light.
Great work. A+
rec for realness
Geriatric Dunk Squad!
1/4/10 - Juwan Howard dunks on Chris Kaman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTkOqDgLb6s
3/7/10 - Andre Miller Tomahawk jams on the Denver Nuggets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-JVgm7F1QA
4/12/10 - Marcus Camby drops 30 and 13 on OKC to cement 50 wins. http://www.nba.com/blazers/media/camby_chant_041310.mp3
by Eat Politicians on May 16, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions
All I have to say is ....
…. where are the photo shop people when you really need them?
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I don’t see LeBron doing the sign and trade thing, if he has his pick why would he want to hamstring his new team by taking one of their good players away? I think if he leaves it’s with a middle finger to the Cavs management, not with a “so long and thanks for all the fish.”
That said, I offer Rudy, Aldridge, and Batum. Aldridge is great but the easiest thing to part with if you’re bringing in a top scorer. Batum is playing the same position and has enough upside to be attractive compared to other offers, and Rudy can go to the Cavs, get a fresh start, and sell lots of jerseys. It leaves us with issues at the 4, but the idea of putting Roy on one side, LeBron on the other, and Oden in the middle is just too attractive. Add in Andre and I’d play that lineup 5 on 4.
Not going to happen, but it sure would be exciting. Am I the only one who hopes he pulls a Hedo in NY and creates lots of drama before landing on a bad team? The grass is always greener…
If LeBron James wants to be a Chicago Bull, then a sign-'n'-trade deal is the best-case scenario for him.
That way, the Bulls can ship off Luol Deng’s large contract to the Cleveland Cavaliers — along with a lot of other compensation, of course — and, in turn, have enough financial wiggle room to sign a maximum-level free-agent (e.g., Chris Bosh) to go with Joakim Noah, James, Kirk Hinrich, Derrick Rose, and hand-picked head coach John Calipari.
Oh, by the way, James can receive a lot more money (i.e., a 10.5% annual raise versus an 8% annual raise) over a longer periord of time (i.e., 6 years versus 5 years) via a sign-‘n’-trade deal instead of signing outright with another team; that’s ’cause the Cavs have his Bird rights.
SIGN-&-TRADE DEAL
2010-2011: $16,568,908
2011-2012: $18,308,643
2012-2013: $20,048,378
2013-2014: $21,788,113
2014-2015: $23,527,848 (Early Termination Option)
2015-2016: $25,263,583 (Player Option)
Total: $125,505,473
SIGNED OUTRIGHT
2010-2011: $16,568,908
2011-2012: $17,894,421
2012-2013: $19,219,934
2013-2014: $20,545,447
2014-2015: $21,870,960 (Early Termination Option)
Total: $96,099,670
I think theres a legitimate chance LeBron just WANTS 3 years with a player option for the 4th
He certainly doesn’t want to get stuck in this kind of situation with inept management again. I think in this scenario it might make more sense for Bosh to be the sign and trade guy while LeBron is the guy that just signs on.
Even if LeBron James again wants only a four-year contract — with the final season a player ...
option — he’ll still desire the 10.5% annual raises; thus, my guess is that a sign-and-trade deal is in order for him.
The current starting point guard and then either Roy, LA, or Oden (just 1 of the 3) and anyone else
That’s a given though. No way in hell LeBron would come there to play with the current Blazers starting point guard.
We keep Roy
Take your pick of the rest (would love to keep Batum, but any deal with Cle probably has to include him, plus he plays the same position as LBJ).
Pair LBJ with another all around super scorer like Roy, and they can’t even safely “box and 1” him, let alone the “triple team as soon as he crosses half court” that most teams seem to do these days. Everybody else it ultimately replaceable… except for Oden if he stays healthy, but that doesn’t look too likely these days. With LBJ + Roy, a rag tag bunch of solid role players is all you need.
Let's start with Roy
Roy has to be in the trade. You don’t acquire the best player in the league without giving up your best player. Plus, having Lebron and Roy together would be a huge waste.
Batum is next. He doesn’t have the body to play the 4 and he’s got tons of talent and potential which the Cavs would like. Playing him behind Lebron is a waste and starting Lebron at the 4 is also a waste.
I don’t think any team is gonna be interested in Oden at this point.
We’ll let the Cavs pick between Bayless and Miller. Are they more interested in a cheap contract and a guy with potential or current talent and an expiring contract?
Then, to top it off they can have Rudy and one of either Joel or Camby and any future picks and rights to stashed away Euros.
So, let’s say the package is Miller, Roy, Rudy, Batum and Joel (insurance covered expiring contract) with picks for Lebron.
Bayless
Martell
Lebron
Aldridge
Oden
Camby
Dante
Sign a backup 1/2 with the MLE. Steve Blake anyone? Well, Nate would probably start Blake and use Bayless as the back up 1/2.
Sign a backup 3 to a minimum contract.
This team has a good combination of shooting, playmaking, defense, rebounding, youth and experience. Of course, just like our current team, Oden’s health is what separates good team from title winner.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
OK, now I know usmcr is either slipping you cash ...
… or is your daddy.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
There's evidence that LBJ is actually really good at the 4.
If I were him I’d spend a summer working on post moves, like what Kobe did.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
if I were him I'd spend a summer working on super models in NYC
picture me rollin'
by Utah Sucks on May 16, 2010 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lebron could develop a devastating post up game
but that’s never going to be his strength. Playing him at the 4 would be like playing Aldridge at center or Roy at PG. Yeah, they could do the job if necessary, but it’s wasting their talent.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Easy
Miller/Batum/Webster/LaMarcus/Joel Contract
Jerryd Bayless / Patty Mills
Brandon Roy / Rudy Fernandez
LeBron James / Daunte Cunningham
Marcus Camby / Jeff Pendergraph
Greg Oden / Juwan Howard
is Daunte
Dante’s evil twin…and if so, does he have this mustache?
Geriatric Dunk Squad!
1/4/10 - Juwan Howard dunks on Chris Kaman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTkOqDgLb6s
3/7/10 - Andre Miller Tomahawk jams on the Denver Nuggets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-JVgm7F1QA
4/12/10 - Marcus Camby drops 30 and 13 on OKC to cement 50 wins. http://www.nba.com/blazers/media/camby_chant_041310.mp3
by Eat Politicians on May 16, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm gonna go unorthodox
Trade Roy/Miller/Rudy for LeBron.
Then have Bron run the point, Batum starts at SG (like he does for the Frenchies), LA at SF, Camby at PF, Oden at C, Bayless gets 6th man minutes backing up Bron and Batum.
LeBron/Bayless
Batum/Bayless/Martell
LA/Martell/Dante
Camby/Dante/Jeff
Oden/Przy/Pendy
No starters under 6’9", but between LeBron and Batum you have enough pace and strength to guard any frontcourt combo in the league. LA is a defensive liability at the 3 in any number of situations but this is true already to some extent with him at PF and having him at the 3 allows for the Camby/Oden two headed defensive monster to play extended minutes together. Normally with a tall lineup opponents can play smallball and force you out of it, but with LeBron and Batum being so quick for their size and two guys in the paint who can block shots and play help D as well as anyone not named Dwight, I’d like to see who would actually have to adjust. A lineup like that has never really been attempted as far as I know and it sure would be interesting to see if the mismatches it creates would overcome its inherent weaknesses.
Nicolas Batum AKA Mr. Third Quarter
On Josh Smith "He's strong as a 2nd curtain"
On Lebron "...it's hype, he's not a defender"
On Aaron Brooks "He's tiny, he has a small body but he's super fast and has a real gesture"
On Steve Nash "First we'll have to try and stop this Canadian guard, a young kid with a bright future!"
On Defense "They all piss me off with Dwight Howard...Guys like Bruce Bowen or Ron Artest were legit defensive men of the year. For me that's the profile of a denfender.
On The Playoffs "I don't want Dallas to win because I don't want Rodrigue to be NBA champion, I would be pissed. I don't want him to be NBA champion in his 1st year, this bastard....I put myself in mode asshole!"
Yar
Be cool to see though, right?
Nicolas Batum AKA Mr. Third Quarter
On Josh Smith "He's strong as a 2nd curtain"
On Lebron "...it's hype, he's not a defender"
On Aaron Brooks "He's tiny, he has a small body but he's super fast and has a real gesture"
On Steve Nash "First we'll have to try and stop this Canadian guard, a young kid with a bright future!"
On Defense "They all piss me off with Dwight Howard...Guys like Bruce Bowen or Ron Artest were legit defensive men of the year. For me that's the profile of a denfender.
On The Playoffs "I don't want Dallas to win because I don't want Rodrigue to be NBA champion, I would be pissed. I don't want him to be NBA champion in his 1st year, this bastard....I put myself in mode asshole!"
Cool? It'd be freeeeeak'n sweet.
The only problem would be little zippy guards and the potential of people getting lazy.
facebook.com/year5000
Zippy little guards vs Camby/Oden
I’ll take those odds. Swat, swat, swattidy, swat swat! If Oden can’t stay outta the way and gets in foul trouble then we turn to Przy.
In reality LA at the 3 would have serious nightmare potential but oh well….
Nicolas Batum AKA Mr. Third Quarter
On Josh Smith "He's strong as a 2nd curtain"
On Lebron "...it's hype, he's not a defender"
On Aaron Brooks "He's tiny, he has a small body but he's super fast and has a real gesture"
On Steve Nash "First we'll have to try and stop this Canadian guard, a young kid with a bright future!"
On Defense "They all piss me off with Dwight Howard...Guys like Bruce Bowen or Ron Artest were legit defensive men of the year. For me that's the profile of a denfender.
On The Playoffs "I don't want Dallas to win because I don't want Rodrigue to be NBA champion, I would be pissed. I don't want him to be NBA champion in his 1st year, this bastard....I put myself in mode asshole!"
Don't forget that LeBron and Batum are two of the best at coming from behind for a block.
We could always start Marty Blazer at 3 and Lamarcus as a sixth man. Actually, that sounds better since then LA would be the focus of the scoring when LeBron sits.
"I think he’s been doing some good things. I think he’s been doing some good things. He’s had to play a lot of minutes lately with Blake being out. I think he’s been doing some good things." -Nate McMillan
That's not bad.
I wouldn’t label yourself as unorthodox. Most of what might called such in this post seems a bit out to lunch in my opinion.
Dave’s question is outside of the box to begin with. Therefore the odds might actually favor out of the box thinking as you provide here.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Dave, I think the Mountain Dews, York Mints, and late nights are finally getting to you.
"It's not whether you win or lose, it's whether you win."
by hrtlndblzrfn on May 16, 2010 5:32 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
First you need to determine why didn't James win in Cleveland
First: Cleveland didn’t have two other near 20 point a game scorers.
Second: They had too many players who were good on defense but only passable on offense.
Third: They had no consistent defensive rebounding.
So, if the premise is: James wants multiple championships, then James has to find teams that have good interior players, two players who can get twenty points a game, and players who play both good defense and offense.
From Portland’s point of view if the team were to woo James then Portland would have to keep:
Oden—for defensive rebounding and at least 10 points a game
Roy— a better defender than he’s given credit for and a twenty point plus scorer a game
Aldridge—a good power foward, can get 20 points a game and teamed with Oden assures the team good defensive rebounding
Batum—can defend the fleet point guards and can score 15 points a game.
Oh, and if James doesn’t at least consider Portland, because of these advantages, then James doesn’t really understand what it takes to win a championship.
Sorry, Dave....
I just can’t get enthused about this exercise in futility. LeBron isn’t coming to P-town, and I only have a limited number of neurons and don’t won’t to waste them thinking about something that isn’t going to happen…..
I hate the whole “superstar” orientation of the NBA. I don’t like the way the media covers it. I don’t like the way the refs call it. I would love to see real team basketball make a comeback.
by upper left corner on May 16, 2010 6:03 AM PDT reply actions
Suns are trying ATM
So is Orlando. Both have superstars but superstar calls are few and far between with Nash/STAT and Dwight.
An Orlando/Phoenix finals might make people remember how fun team basketball can be to watch. In all reality, no one would watch. No LeBron/Kobe going ISO for ISO then no dice for the casual fan. Which is sad.
Nicolas Batum AKA Mr. Third Quarter
On Josh Smith "He's strong as a 2nd curtain"
On Lebron "...it's hype, he's not a defender"
On Aaron Brooks "He's tiny, he has a small body but he's super fast and has a real gesture"
On Steve Nash "First we'll have to try and stop this Canadian guard, a young kid with a bright future!"
On Defense "They all piss me off with Dwight Howard...Guys like Bruce Bowen or Ron Artest were legit defensive men of the year. For me that's the profile of a denfender.
On The Playoffs "I don't want Dallas to win because I don't want Rodrigue to be NBA champion, I would be pissed. I don't want him to be NBA champion in his 1st year, this bastard....I put myself in mode asshole!"
Great comment.
I too am rooting for the Magic and the Suns. I think fans would do well to look at how those teams play and how their rosters are constructed.
by upper left corner on May 17, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Roy, Batum, Pryz + 1st Round Draft Picks (next 2 years)
Salaries should be close.
Roy- have to give up your best player to get LBJ. Plus, I cannot see LBJ & Roy working together. LBJ is a much more dominant 1-1 player (which is what Roy does for us). So, we would be paying A LOT of $$$ to Roy to go stand in the corner. LBJ a load in a more up-tempo game. I personally think Roy shudders just hearing the words up-tempo. an
Batum- LBJ’s position, plus I assume Cleveland would like the fact of getting 2 starters back. Batum I believe is an attractive piece to other GM’s
Pryz- $$ filler that Cavs can use as an expiring contract to trade later or let expire
Starting Line-Up- with what we got
Miller
Webster
LBJ
LA
Oden
Bench: Camby, Dante, Bayless, Rudy would be the main bench guys
Attractive line-up as
1) decent in 1/2 court: LBJ, LA, Oden, Miller good 1-1 or in the post. Webster there for the kick outs and wide open 3. Miller’s lack of an outside shot may be the biggest hinderance as the D can clog the middle. But his ability to run an offense and toss some alley oops to a more athletic LBJ would be nice.
2) good running team 1-4 (can use LA’s quickness a bit better now)
3) good defensive team- lot of length with Oden patrolling the middle
4) Nice Bench
give me this lineup
Roy
Batum
James
Cunningham
Aldridge
6th man: Bayless
Camby backing up PF/C
Imagine having two of the best “chasedown” blockers in the game, plus Dante who can get up and swat stuff away too. I think that would be the best combination of offense and defense we could assemble.
I’d trade away Miller, Rudy, Webster, Oden & whatever else
this joke NEVER gets old to me.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on May 16, 2010 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions
You know what I say? Don't do it.
In order to get LeBron, the team would have to give up so much that they’d be rendered just another superstar-centered team with the same problems the Cavs have. And James is starting to show the chinks in his armor, in terms of not coming through in the post-season. I really think we’re better off with Roy + a great supporting cast. We’d get more headlines with James, more highlight reels, etc., but I’m starting to think LeBron may not be the real deal. And I think Roy definitely is.
Lebron is the real deal
he’s just young, i’m thinking he may somehow go to the lakers (artest, odom, bymum), which would just frighten me.
i know people will say
he’s halfway through his career, but so what, he could spend the second half collecting rings if he’s paired with the right player(s).
That's a heavy bet
on 2 surgically repaired knees, a history of injuries, and a physical body which is not built to withstand the type of punishment it receives on repeated drives to the rim over the 98 games (min. to championship). LBJ’s 2 MVPs and physical strength leave only the psychological issues remaining as to whether he is truly championship material.
the contrast can be pretty stark with lebron and roy, style wise, i enjoy the differences.
Roy: 4 years college, humble, shooter, half court, shooter, good playmaker and passer, has become more and more of a mid range player and less driving but crafty at scoring with both hands when he does still, good situational post up player, has array of face up options too.
Lebron: Strait in to the NBA, not so humble, not known as a great shooter, good transition scorer, excellent playmaker and passer, drives a lot and excellent power game, and doesn’t rely on mid range game as much, not much of a post up player but could develop into one of the best, usually better on the dribble drive after getting some momentum because of speed and power.
Oh maaaaaaaaaan.
I can’t believe what I’m reading on this thread.
It’s absolutely stunning.
I'm just not crazy about player nick names...
by Hipster Olympic Team! on May 16, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
i wouldnt trade a dirty diaper for cry baby james.
He is a whiney little punk with a look at me first attitude. He is not a team player. If the refs didn’t pat his butt every time someone breathed on him he wouldn’t be as good as everyone thinks he is. I hope he never wins a title. And I’m so sick of hearing about him to be honest.
Why not try and land chris bosh? Trade LA AND RUDY FOR HIM. Ok whew my rant is over.
by Trade4Bosh on May 16, 2010 9:21 AM PDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Did you hear Bosh's wish???
On the team that signs him, he wants to be THE STAR; he won’t accept a secondary status.
Well, he’s been the star at Toronto and look where he’s at!
i heard both james and wade want to play with him.
maybe cause he would be a fantastic number two.
i wonder how bosh feels about that.
"I told somebody to stop crying," Pendergraph said after the game. "Actually, I told them all to stop crying."
for Lebron...
Batum, Aldridge, Pendergraph, Cunningham, and Bayless
by collectiveshane on May 16, 2010 9:41 AM PDT reply actions
why don't people talk about him going to NOLA?
James and cp3 are good buddies; is it just they don’t really have anyone to offer at the SF, or anyone besides West and Oka4?
Any teasm trading for LBJ is in the same boat. They have to keep enough peices to win after the trade.
So I think it’s possible that Cleveland may not get the pieces they think they’re going to get. It could be a lot of expirings and draft picks lumped with a couple viable players.
How many teams could give up three starters and still be a championship caliber team with LBJ?
James has the power in Cleveland
The premise laid out by Cleveland, in this scenario, is both true and false. The situation described from James’ side of it has possibilities. The criteria for choosing a new team. The principal players of a team remain.
What is false is the give us your best offer. James can pick a team for sign and trade, and so long as the offer has actual talent (but not close to replacing him) then the Cavs have a choice—take it or get nothing if he gets ticked off and goes to a team with caproom. There may be a bit of tinkering to make his hometown fans a little less unhappy, but there it is.
The basic offer: Webster + Bayless + Rudy + JPEC = James
Portland can have Roy and James function at PG at times with Miller. A bit of roster thinning and the reality of having one ball. Look for a backup SG and a backup PG with the draft and with MLE.
i'm sorry but that is a "basically rejected' offer
At least one of LMA, Roy and Oden would have to be included (remember we’re talking about the best player since Michael, and every team in the league trying to best each other without killing their ability to compete).
think: Roy + Bayless + Martell + Joel’s expiring contract as the baseline, if you take Roy out of the equation then It’s probably LMA, Batum, Bayless and Joel.
by nikolokolus on May 16, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Wait.
Martel, J-Bay, and Rudy for LEBRON? Am I reading this correctly?
That’s like trading 2 beat up storm troopers and Yoda’s snake for the purple Snaggletooth. That doesn’t happen. Not ever. Not here or in a galaxy far, far away…
I'm just not crazy about player nick names...
by Hipster Olympic Team! on May 16, 2010 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
If LeBron is serious about this "win a championship" business,
And not just giving lip service to the fans thru the media, his first consideration should be the coach. He needs a Phil to his Kobe.
Strange feature of the NBA game, a superstar is both a boon and a burden. And to go deep, you need a coach who can create a structure that is stronger than the stat line.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
Anyone. This guy is the 2nd best player in the league.
If you have a chance to get this type of player you do it, no matter the cost. He’s a WAY better defender than B-Roy will ever be, and has been healthier to boot.
B-Roy and Nic seems like a healthy start to the deal.
or LMA, Rudy, and whoever else it takes.
I just don’t see Cleveland being able to pull of a sign-and-trade though.
I'm just not crazy about player nick names...
by Hipster Olympic Team! on May 16, 2010 11:47 AM PDT reply actions
2nd best player?
No one compares to LBJ’s overall game. He is unquestionably the best player in the NBA.
not even travis diener?
"I told somebody to stop crying," Pendergraph said after the game. "Actually, I told them all to stop crying."
I still take Kobe in crunch time over Lebron though.
I'm just not crazy about player nick names...
by Hipster Olympic Team! on May 16, 2010 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
K*be misses a larger percentage of his shots in crunch time than LeBron
but people give him a pass because his team still wins. When LeBron gets anything resembling even half of Phil Jackson, let me know. No Gasol, Odom, Artest. There’s no contest here. Late in games you know you’re getting a mid range jumper fest with Kobe. With LeBron you’ll get those on occasion, but more often than not, he’ll get better looks attacking the basket or 3’s for his teammates (if they’d work for them).
This myth of K*be annoys the heck out of me. Sure he makes a lot of late game shots. That’s what happens when he’s the guy taking them every single time.
Heres a look at their clutch situation numbers…
http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM
Interesting!
Lebron is definitely going to be the best player over the next decade. No debate there.
I also think some fans are unfamiliar with what an offensive superstar who plays dominant “D” is like, since we havn’t had one of those here in…I don’t know…30 years?
I'm just not crazy about player nick names...
by Hipster Olympic Team! on May 16, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I didn't think Tim Duncan was that old.
I know he’s been around for a while, but has it been 30 years since Tim Duncan was drafted?
"we" meaning Portland.
Clyde got a lot of steals and boards but I wouldn’t call his D “dominant”. Lebron can change the game on both ends of the floor.
I was thinking Walton…
I'm just not crazy about player nick names...
by Hipster Olympic Team! on May 16, 2010 7:04 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
scottie? but that didnt last too long
i thought clyde played pretty solid D
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
team>players
by thomasikehara on May 16, 2010 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Not willing to give up Roy or Oden
The only way I want LBJ is if we can pair him with Roy, and I also don’t want to give up on Oden just yet, One more season ending injury and I am done. Start with LA, Rudy, JP, Miller and NIC. That should be enough right there. Sign either blake or ridinour to the MLE and you got. PG.Blake or Rid. SG. Roy. SF. LBJ. PF. Camby. C.Oden. Talk about total Defensive and Offensive Juggernauts right there son.
This whole situation highlights one of the biggest problems facing professional sports, IMO
The problem I’m referring to is the increasing loss of identity of sports franchises and athletes with their regional audience.
Everybody is acting like kids in a candy store, but think for a moment about the folks in Cleveland, especially the little kids, proudly wearing their LeBron T-shirts. How would it feel?
I know there are a lot of you who don’t really care who the Blazers are as long as they win a championship. Maybe that’s a majority view, even.
It’s probably inevitable that — as people increasingly define their reality in terms of what can be found globally and electronically networked and delivered to their homes, cars, and phones — what is happening right in their neighborhoods takes on less importance.
But, speaking personally, the day I wake up and find that half of my team has disappeared is the day I stop caring about the team at all.
I realize that we Blazer fans can have a discussion about LeBron that is nearly 100% theoretical, and that probably fewer than 1 in a thousand really believes he’ll be a Blazer next year. So we can, if we’re so inclined, indulge in such fantasies without actually having to face difficult decisions.
However, it is the continuing separation of these athletes and teams from their local, geographically-centered fan-bases that rips out the hearts of those who truly care and relegates the entire spectacle to what Nic Batum recently described as a totally overrated and hyper-mediatized universe where it’s all about sponsors and big money. Enjoy!
#52
by CatMan2 on May 16, 2010 12:37 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
James has the power in Cleveland
In response to the very reasonable individuals who state that a trade of Webster + Bayless + Rudy + JPEC for James is nowhere near what it would take to get James in trade … you’re absolutely right .
That other teams would offer more … absolutely right.
That James is (likely) the best player to come along since Jordan (all due respect to Kobe, Wade, Howard, etc.).
You’re right … but these are not normal circumstances. If James selects a team—hypothetically Portland—it means that he will want certain players there OR there will be no deal. [Oden, Aldridge, Roy, and Batum are the likely James teammates.] If Cleveland doesn’t accept a lesser deal—even one that is inferior to what other teams would offer)—then they get NOTHING when James walks to a team with cap room. The best that Cleveland can do in that situation is save face to the extent possible.
It’s not about getting near equal value in a sign and trade of James—should that happen. It’s about James deciding where he goes and who he wants there. In this instance, James has more leverage than the Cavs do on who they’d get in return.
Yup. I posted the same sentiment below. The only way he comes here is if he wants to play with Roy and Aldridge...and maybe Greg.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
by dario argento on May 16, 2010 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd give them anyone outside of Roy, Oden, Aldridge, or Batum
otherwise, I’m happy without LeEgo on this team.
"I been ridin' the midnight train, got ice water in my veins." -Bob Dylan
"Sasha? That's a sissy name." -Mike Rice
You keep Roy.
He’s the type of star that Lebron needs to keep other teams honest, can shoulder the scoring load, and is a better late game closer than James is. As long as you keep Roy you’ll be in the hunt, especially with the other players you’ll get to keep.
Cleveland won’t want Oden at this point, he’s got more value to the Blazers than any other team at this point due to his injury history. LMA hasn’t shown the ability to take his game to the next level and should be sent to Cleveland in this deal.
Batum has no position is Portland picks up Lebron so ship him to Cleveland too. It’s time for Rudy to find a new home and he’s a nice piece to offer in a deal.
Trade LMA, Batum, Rudy, and any other minor piece Cleveland wants along with the draft picks necessary to get the deal done. Lebron is the best player in the NBA and Portland should be willing to give up everything to get him. Better to rebuild around him then to miss out on getting him. The only reason to keep players is for Lebron’s sake and to win now versus a year or two from now.
Portland should be left with:
PG – Miller
SG – Roy
SF – James
PF – Camby
C – Oden
PG/SG – Bayless
SG/SF – Webster
PF/C – Pendergraph/Pryzbilla/any additional signee
You can do whatever you need to do to round out the roster or complete the trade.
Anyone but Roy,and Oden.
Everyone else is replaceable, and we would have the best “big three” in basketball. Imagine Roy, Lebron, and Oden. I get excited thinking about it, and then I come back to reality.
If Latrine James leaves Cleveland, it's to go to a bigger media market.
He know that any team that trades for him will have to deplete their roster in order to get him =ing a few steps back in the “We’ll put rings on your finger(s)” Department.
And he won’t be wanting to sign with Portland because “It’s a nice place to live.”, either. That’s pure rubbish.
But I know this is just for fun so…
LMA, Bayless, Batum, Rudy, Miller, & Joel should get things done.
Draft a PG and let Mills and him battle it out for the starting job next season.
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
The King
The fact that there will be so many suitors for King James and he does want to win Championships immediately. He may choose a team that is not on the radar including Portland. In reviewing the Cav’s roster they are set at PF. They have many expiring contract which will bring them cap relief.
Scenario #1
I would suggest the following trade to the Cav’s for King James and Mo Williams for Pryzbilla, Webster, Miller, and Roy.
This would fill gaps for Cleveland and they would dramatically drop below the cap. Roy would be a sting from James but they get young talent in Webster and solid veterans in Pryz/Miller.
The Blazers should follow this trade up immediately with trying to sign Ray Allen to the MLE. Ray Allen could step in at SG and help Rudy with his NBA game.
Scenario #2
Cavs send James/Williams for Pryz, Miller, Oden, Webster, Fernandez, ‘11/’12 pick.
This is a high risk move for Cleveland but will bring back the Ohio State phenom Oden that could flourish if he is healthy. Webster would be a great tandem with Moon at SF. Fernandez is another talented player who produces excitement. Rudy will flourish if he knows he can be the legit starter and not a bench player. The pot is sweetened with two first round draft picks.
The Blazers should attempt to sign Brendan Haywood to the MLE for an emerging talent at center.
I would like either scenario but prefer scenario #2. Both of the proposed deals would work under the salary cap if James signed MAX deal.
Please post your thoughts…
i would hate to give up roy or oden
but then i noticed that neither trade included batum
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
team>players
by thomasikehara on May 16, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions
lebron is the same age as brandon roy
just throwing that out there
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
team>players
I don't want him
KP has gathered an excellent group of guys on and off the court…I like being able to root my team again and if they don’t win a ring I don’t care. You want an off season move I got one for ya, bring back travis outlaw. There’s your big summer move. Lebron can go be a douche to kids somewhere else…
Geriatric Dunk Squad!
1/4/10 - Juwan Howard dunks on Chris Kaman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTkOqDgLb6s
3/7/10 - Andre Miller Tomahawk jams on the Denver Nuggets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-JVgm7F1QA
4/12/10 - Marcus Camby drops 30 and 13 on OKC to cement 50 wins. http://www.nba.com/blazers/media/camby_chant_041310.mp3
by Eat Politicians on May 16, 2010 6:14 PM PDT reply actions
Here it is
To Cleveland
LMA, Oden, Webster, Rudy, Bayless, Joel 32 mil in salary
To Portland
James, Jamison, Varejao, Gibson 40mil in salary
Within 25%
OMG I just jizzed in my France
OMGrandpa
Not a chance...
that Cleveland takes that deal – they give up WAY too much!
The way I see it, he's probably not coming here anyway, so swing for the fences. We gotta sell it to Lebron more than the Cavs. We gotta show him the cast of players he wants to be around. He already thinks of Nate highly.
We gotta convince him this is a championship core of talent. Swing for the fences. Keep Roy, Aldridge, Oden, and give Cleveland all our young talent, expiring contracts, and LOTS of draft picks. Cleveland gets nice contracts and pieces for the future, and Lebron gets a team full of players.
ESPN trade machine won’t work, but the salaries come very close to matching ( although I’m not sure how the euro players affect it.
Portland gets Lebron.
Cleveland gets Andre, Joel, Batum, Rudy, Bayless, rights to Claver / Freeland / Koponen, our first round draft pick this year, second round next year, and first round the year after, with cash considerations, and a lapdance from Jody Allen.
He ain’t coming anyway so this is all a moot point. But I stand by the argument that you gotta sell it to Lebron way more than the Cavs. This line-up with Roy and Aldridge alone would be the best line-up he’s probably ever played with. If Oden stays healthy that’s a devastating team. If he bought into it maybe it’s possible if we drugged him first.
"What people need to know is that those pictures were taken a year and a half ago, and I've grown since then." - Greg Oden
Roy has to be included
in this deal for it to make sense. How effective is either Roy or Lebron going to be on the floor together? Not very effective at all, I’d say. Roy has virtually already proven that he has trouble playing and being effective with another player who needs the ball for extended lengths of time, and Lebon wouldn’t defer to MIchael Jordan, much less Roy. It makes no sense to get rid of important complementary players like Aldridge and Batum in favor of keeping Roy. Unless you don’t think Cleveland would want Roy for some reason?
I think if you keep a veteran point guard (Miller, obviously), a quality small forward (Batum, preferably, but more likely Webster), L.A. and either Oden or Camby you’d have enough talent to give Lebron a chance to compete while still offering enough talent to make this trade. I’d trade:
Roy
Bayless
Pendegraph
Camby OR Oden
Batum OR Webster
for Lebron. We’d need a backup point and backup 2 guard, but we’d hopefully have that after we dangle Rudy out there. If Rudy’s head is suddenly, miraculously, on straight, he could fill that role himself. We’d have Pryzbilla (once healthy) as a quality backup big, and we’d have Cunningham as a quality backup at the 3 and 4. Our starters would be Miller, Webster, Lebron, L.A. and Oden or Camby.
By the way, although Lebron is obviously going to be one of the best, possibly THE best, players of his generation, I think the cost would be too high. So I wouldn’t actually do this deal at all. ;)
Now that I think about it
I think the above deal could be realistically consummated without trading Batum. So: Webster gone, Batum stays. Even better.
in all honesty, i hope lebron stays with cleveland
he is from there and has completely revitalized the franchise
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
team>players
by thomasikehara on May 16, 2010 7:00 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
well i guess living in a fantasy world is wonderful till you have to come back to reality
all this conjecture is fun to read and i don’t want to be buzz killington but there is not a snowballs chance in hell that lebron is coming to portland. i could see him going to ny, nj, lal, orlando, or even atlanta but there is not even 1/10th of 100th of a % that lebron is coming here. sorry boys and girls. also all the trades proposed are way way to much to trade for lebron. you have to make the salaries match. since we’re living in a fantasy dream world heres what i would do and not a penny or a player more.
lamarcus aldrige
rudy fernandez
martell webster or jaryd bayless but not both.
lebron is a great player but he has his short comings too even if he cant see them. also i don’t think that he would lend much “team” to the offense. i say no to lebron. actually i would rather have kobe…ouch that stings, or cp3.
i am pretty sure all of us know that there is no chance lebron comes here
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
team>players
by thomasikehara on May 16, 2010 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Pretty sure we should want lebron
yes, he is that good
If LeBron isn't the player to lead us to a title
Then who is? As currently constructed, the Blazers still won’t be better than the L@kers or Nuggets until Kobe and/or George Karl retires. If LeBron can’t get us there nobody can. We’re not THAT good, we’re not even top four in our own conference. Of course, everything may change after this summer but I’ll bank on the L@kers getting better somehow.
Anyway, for the topic at hand:
Lamarcus Aldridge
Nicolas Batum
Rudy Fernandez
Joel Pryzbilla
Jerryd Bayless
for James and possibly a second player seems reasonable. We’d still have our starting backcourt, we can probably afford to sign a decent PF, and we keep Oden and Camby. Our starters would be:
PG Miller
SG Roy
SF James
PF ???
C Oden/Camby? Whichever is healthy that day.
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
King James II
Cleveland has Jamison and Varejo to long term contracts and are set at PF. If James is going to leave they will want a star player in return and significant pieces. Portland could trade Roy, Webster, Pryzbilla, Pendagraph, Miller and ‘11/’12 pick for James and Williams.
Miller and Williams are equal but Miller is an expiring contract at the end of this season. The Cavs receive Roy, Webster, Pryzbilla, Pendagraph + picks for James. That is a lot of talent and reasonable cost. The Cavs payroll was $100 million this year and maybe best for the franchise in a sign and trade. The Cavs get an all star SG in Roy and seasoned veteran in Miller. Webster/Moon is a good SF tandem and Pryzbilla is a 7’ center. Pryz/Jamison/Webster/Roy/Miller is a nice starting 5.
Portland makes a gamble with their future draft picks to land the King. The starting lineup of Oden, LMA, LBJ, Batum, and Williams is a nice starting 5. The bench is strong with Camby, Cunningham, Bayless, Fernandez, and Mills. The Blazers would still have the mid level exception and should go after Haywood.
LBJ would not need to play as many minutes and should remain healthier for longer into his career. Marketing is global and winning multiple championships will make LBJ the most money in any market.
LMA, Batum, Bayless and Cunningham.
I wouldn’t do that, but I think that’s what it would take. WAY too much.
Barrett: You are going to score 35 tonight.
Bayless: Ya think?
MB off by only four, my oh my.
Not way too much!
I say absolutely YES to LMA, Batum, Bayless and Cunningham for the King. I’m no fan of James, but this is almost a steal. I mean, are you kidding me? We get to keep Roy, Oden, Camby, Miller, and Webster… and add LeBron? Pull the trigger Kevin!!
im sorry guys but...
lets say they said ok we wanna do a sign and trade, Lebron approves this, we’ll give you Lebron for Roy and Aldridge, i know the money dont match up, but as much as i love Roy and like Aldridge, it be hard for me not to make that deal, i know there our two stars but lebron is Lebron, i’d consider it
by Blazingatrail24 on May 16, 2010 9:53 PM PDT reply actions
Three team deal with Hornets
Portland:
Give: Roy, Miller, Rudy, Pryzbilla, 2010 and 2011 1st and 2nd rounder, 2012 1st rounder, and cash considerations
Recieve: LeBron, Chris Paul, Emeka Okafor
Cavaliers:
Give: LeBron
Recieve:Brandon Roy, 2010 1st and 2nd rounder, and 2011 2nd rounder, 2012 1st rounder, cash considerations
Hornets:
Give: Chris Paul, Emeka Okafor
Recieve:Miller, Rudy, Pryzbilla, 2011 1st rounder
Why Cavaliers do it:
With Roy they are still a top 4 team in the East and they don’t lose LeBron for just anything. This deal would likely be better than any other and still leave him a chance to win several rings.
Why Hornets do it:
The hornets would do it because they could drop Emeka Okafors terrible contract and with getting Miller and Joel back they would have a youn team in 2011 and a huge amount of cap space in 2011 to sign another top tier free agent. Plus with Paul he keeps losing games to injury and with Miller they would get the NBA’s iron man.I think they would have to think about this deal.
Why the Trailblazers do this deal:
The Trailblazers get the best starting 5 in basketball and would be a team perfect to run without Roy, Miller, and Joel slowing down the pace. This team would easily win several championships and would definetely make LeBron happy to be a Trailblazer. We would have to take on Okafor but he is still a great center and although the payroll would be high, I’m sure the Vulcans would pay the price if it meant Multiple titles and becoming the best known team in the world.
Trailblazers 9 man rotation:LeBron
Chris Paul
Aldridge
Bayless
Oden
Camby
Okafor
Webster
Batum
by philthebballplayer on May 16, 2010 10:00 PM PDT reply actions
that trade would be awesome just to see two top 5 nba players get moved in the same trade
no way it happens though
Michael Jordan is the Nicolas Batum of America
team>players
by thomasikehara on May 16, 2010 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions
This one competes on a nightly basis with the one where I'm ...
… extremely well equiped and have a line of beautiful women stretching for several blocks just to get some lovin’.
Has about the same chance of happening as well.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Am I the only one around here who hasn't been drinking the "King James" Kool-Aide
OK, I admit I didn’t read all 200+ comments. But based on the ones I did read—or skim—practically everyone is saying they’d give up multiple key Blazers in order to get LeBron James. Based on what? His cool commercials? His regular season stats? Did you not just watch LeBron—surrounded by talented players hand-picked to complement him—get bounced by the aged Boston Celtics?
I’ve written this phrase so often that even I’m sick of it, but hello: BASKETBALL IS A TEAM GAME. Chemistry, coaching, trust, etc.: those ingredients are more important than star power. The USA all-star Olympic team was lucky to get past Spain in the last Olympics. That was no fluke, folks. Nor was the Celtics beating overrated LeBron and his crew.
And there’s a lesson to Blazer fans in this—more relevant than the folly of trading half the roster for LeBron James. It’s that teams on which a star player dominates the ball are sitting ducks for focused, determined playoff-season defenses. If that approach didn’t work for the Cavs, with LeBron James in the starring role, it certainly ain’t going to work for the Hawks with Joe Johnson…or the Blazers with Brandon Roy.
I was born in '52, and I believe in #52. Hang in there, GO.
You too, Przy: everyone knows you're the heart & soul of the Blazers.
by hurryup09 on May 17, 2010 12:19 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Blaming LeBron for this is wrong
you called it correctly when you said BASKETBALL IS A TEAM GAME. The only player on that Cavs roster that was a Championship level player was LeBron James. One player can only do so much. The whole team abandoned him, as per usual, and his coach made it a virtual lock that that would happen. Mike Brown is the coach you have before you move onto the real Championship level coach. Those words will sound familiar at the end of the year for this team.
Actually, the Cavs roster is fairly strong
They just didn’t show it in the playoffs, and there’s a reason for that. I thought “theKingofMacCourt” put it well a few days in his post about the reasons for the Cavs’ loss. Even very good players will underachieve under pressure when reduced to LeBron’s spear carriers. Numerous players on the Cavs’ roster have played much better in the past (on other teams) and will play much better on other teams in the future (on other teams). Conversely, while the Celtics have three hall of famers, they’re very OLD hall of famers, and age matters in basketball (just look at Shaq).
The Cav’s problem, to a large extent, IS LeBron—and on the very concept of building a team around a star player who dominates the ball so much. Yes, it worked for Michael Jordan. But, for all the hype (and for all those muscles), LeBron is no Michael Jordan. It ain’t even close.
And we Blazer fans need to pay attention to this, because there’s a lesson in it for our team’s championship hopes. The Roy-centric, walk-the-ball-up-the-court approach will not get it done when it counts—in the playoffs. Even if, in some fantasy land, we were able to swap, say, Roy, Batum, & GO for LeBron, nothing would change. The Blazers would still have a losing “production.” Just one starring a much bigger ego.
Far better to take the talent the Blazers have, tweak it a bit, and develop a more diversified offense (featuring ball movement, not isos) and better coordinated defense. The grass is always greener…
I was born in '52, and I believe in #52. Hang in there, GO.
You too, Przy: everyone knows you're the heart & soul of the Blazers.
There are so many flaws with this....
Cavs roster being fairly strong. WRONG. Words aren’t enough to explain how off that statement is.
Jamison is a crap player. He’s a volume scorer which is of 0 use in the playoffs. He also happens to be completely inept defensively at every position he plays. Shaq, can absolutely not defend anyone with a pulse anymore. Mo Williams is a playoff non-performer. He can’t break down players and relies on others to get good shots, which he has almost exclusively missed in the playoffs. All three of these guys are VASTLY overrated. What are we left with? Varejao? He’s okay, but he’s their second best player. Sideshow can absolutely not be the second best player on a championship team. It just can’t be.
Many teams have won Championships with one guy or another being ball dominant. In fact, I would say that’s more the rule, than the exception the last 20 years. Jordan won, but he didn’t win until he had BOTH Scottie Pippen AND Phil Jackson. While LeBron might not be MJ, Mike Brown is even further away from being Phil, and the rest of the Cavs roster is even further away from being Scottie.
Define championship level player.
Steve Kerr? John Paxton? Rick Mahour? Vinny Johnson? Any of the centers who played for the Bulls during Jordan’s tenure?
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
The Rush is more important than the Gold.
I think we should be concentrating on the players that might be shaken loose from their teams with the likely moving of James. Duriong the Gold Rush era those who got the richest were the ones who catered to the gold seekers, not the gold seekers themselves.
I think they would probably want Roy and Batum
I would do that. I don’t like the idea of breaking up a young team that is starting to gel, but yeah I would do that.
Answer from KP:
“I’m sorry, but I’m afraid Portland is not a big enough city for Lebron’s ego.”
Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company.
The thing being missed here is that Cleveland wouldn’t be negociating from a position of power. If LBJ signs with someone else, Cleveland gets nothing. A sign and trade allows them to save some face so they will be more lenient. There is no reason to have to clear the house or having to include BRoy, Batum (could play the 4 or LBJ could),
Oden or a PG.
The problem is the amount of $ that has to be included to match LBJ new deal would prob be over 20 mil. Cleveland would still expect some value but they may agree to :
Aldridge, Webster, Pryzbilla, Fernandez (21 mil or something around there). You might have to include some money, draft picks and maybe Cunningham. Again, a sign and trade is different so Cleveland can’t ask for much more and if they do, don’t trade.
This wouldn’t hurt Portland at all except thinning the 4 which is one of the easiest positions to fill and would give Cleveland talent and an expiring contract or insurance paid contract (assuming Pryz doesn’t play this year).
lol I would offer two nickels for Lebron
Two years with the best team or close to it and can’t even get a sniff. Please. That and the fact his personality is flat-out repulsive to anyone who believes in humility…
The Leeroy Rule: being insistent >>>> being correct
Best team?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHA
Hmmm...
I think the players that would have to stay both work well with James’ style and keep their egos in check.
Bayless, Batum, Miller, LA, a healthy Oden, Dante, and Pendy.
Anyone else can go.
I like Roy, but James and Roy probably could not successfully play together. Although maybe they would play great together. I am sure I will hear one way or the other
My ideal offer would be any 3-4 player combination that is not the big 3. I'd like to keep Oden and Roy.
I’d probably trade Roy though over Oden. Once Lebron got here there is no need for Brandon Roy. Not saying they couldn’t be an amazing duo, but Lebron has the ball all game long. Roy would hate it here.
I wouldn’t like trading Roy, but for Lebron you have to.
4-Way Trade
I’d have to convince the Cavs that they have to make a sign and trade get them as much positive publicity in Ohio as much as they have to rebuild the team.
I would make it a four-team trade;
Cleveland trade: LeBron James (to Portland) and Maurice Williams (to Memphis) for Greg Oden, Mike Conley Jr, Daequan Cook, Martell Webster and Hasheem Thabeet
C: Greg Oden – Hasheem Thabeet
PF: J.J. Hickson – Anderson Varejao
SF: Martell Webster – Daequan Cook
SG: Anthony Parker – Delonte West
PG: Mike Conley Jr – Daniel Gibson
They Cavs would trade away Shaq, Antawn Jamison and others to get the pieces that they needed to build around the trio from Ohio State. Team would suck in the short term but let’s face it they will anyway.
Memphis trade: Mike Conley Jr and Hasheem Thabeet (to Cleveland) and Darrell Arthur and Hamed Hadddi (to Miami) for Maurice Williams, Jeryd Bayless and Rudy Fernandez
They trade their young point guard for a playoff veteran. They give up on Thabeet but they got the unexpected rise from Gasol. They get a young potential star in Bayless and a genuine sixth man stud in Rudy.
Miami trade: Daequan Cook (to Cleveland) for Haddadi and Arthur
Not really involved in the trade, but Cavs complete their trio and the Heat get cap fillers. yawn
Portland trade: Greg Oden and Martell Webster (to Cleveland) and Jeryd Bayless and Rudy Fernandez (to Memphis) for LeBron James
Probably the most fair trade not involving Aldridge or Roy that we could muster up. Our depth is gutted but we’d have Przybilla to trade and veteran free agents in search of a championship would desire to play in Portland.
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