2009-10 Season Review: Martell Webster
Martell Webster shares with Andre Miller the distinction of being the only Blazer to have played in all 82 games of the 2009-10 season. For that alone he deserves mighty praise. He paid his injury penance with 5 total minutes played in 2008-09. Maybe fate decided that was enough. Not looking a gift horse in the mouth, we will laud Martell for suiting up every night.
The good news is that Webster picked up this year like he hadn't missed a beat, in most respects duplicating his production of two seasons prior. The less good news comes in a pair of observations:
1. At 23, even with the season off, staying level isn't the best thing.
2. Those numbers were decidedly so-so.
Martell had a good January, averaging 15.5 points and 5 rebounds in 35 minutes per game. 5 of his 9 20+ point games came in that month. Had he been able to maintain that level of production throughout the season we'd be talking about a new Martell. It's somewhat typical of the old Martell to run in streaks, however...quarter to quarter, game to game, month to month. Webster averaged 30 minutes per game filling in for the injured Nicolas Batum in December and shot under 35% for the month, averaging only 9.1 per game. Batum returned to regular action in February and Webster began to spiral downward. By the time March rolled around his court time had dwindled to about 40% of peak. He came back strong in the last couple games of the season. He did well in the three playoff games where he played 33 minutes or more but was a non-factor in the three where he averaged 20 minutes or less. If you're starting to notice a pattern here, give yourself a cookie. But technically it should be a three-year old cookie because this has been Martell's story for as long as I can remember. If you play Martell in a prominent role, usually with the starters and with big minutes, he can produce. Anything less and you're limited to the occasional outburst.
So what do you get for those minutes? Martell shot 40.5% from the field and 37.3% from the three-point arc this season, both almost exactly congruent with his career averages, both down a couple percentage points from 2007-08 when Martell last played regularly. Webster's True Shooting percentage of 54.3% and Effective Field Goal percentage of 50.2% were also about average for him and decent-but-unspectacular overall. 76% of Martell's attempts come on jump shots, which helps explain those percentages. Webster helps both his and the team's cause when he rebounds, which he does to fair success. Webster's huge improvement has come defensively. From a fairly bad start to his career he's turned into a solid, sometimes inspired, defender. He'll not force turnovers nor block shots but he's developed enough lateral movement and instinct to stay in front of his man and not cause the same headaches for the interior defenders that Portland's backcourt does.
Websters +1.3 plus-minus per game figure is also so-so, ranking him 11th on the team among players that saw any reasonable amount of action. He was slightly out-performed by small-foward opponents on average. The team scored fewer points per 100 possessions when Webster was in versus when he was sitting. The team allowed .5 points fewer per 100 possessions with him on the court. However the Blazers' Effective Field Goal percentage went down when he was in and the opponent's went up. Defensive rebounding percentage rose when he played.
Mash all of that together and you come out with a player who can defend and rebound, a guy who can hit a three just fine, and a guy who will occasionally give you spectacular stretches of offensive play. You also have a player who has limited offensive options, tends to disappear when the environment doesn't suit his strengths, and who has a fairly mediocre effect on the team and the game overall. Martell doesn't hurt the Blazers at all. He just doesn't help them consistently either...a development somewhat masked by the critical emergency relief he provided this year. While he shows some signs of growth (defense, rebounding) he's not blossoming. He would probably thrive if the Blazers committed to giving him minutes and to setting him up for offensive success but neither of those eventualities is in the cards as he duplicates Nicolas Batum's position and the team has plenty of people ahead of him in the offensive pecking order.
In the final analysis it was just another year for Martell Webster. Some of it was good, some not so good, but that's the way it's always been. As always you have to dwell on what Webster does well, praise him for the growth he did show, and wait another season to see if it's going to click for him.
Season Performance: C+ (The plus is for durability and in deference to him having to adjust to a couple of different roles.)
Trend: Static
Biggest Question Marks: Ability to play outside of comfort zone, adjust to what the team needs from him, and generate points consistently inside the arc.
Future with the Team: Questionable. If Martell could be bundled as part of a greater trade the Blazers probably wouldn't hesitate on his account. However there's no harm in keeping him either. He's like a bologna sandwich. It's a good enough lunch but if you can swap it for someone's Ding Dong you have to think about it.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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B, B- maybe
Martell’s D was pretty impressive at times this season, and he is still 23, didn’t play at all last season. I’m happy with Martell, mostly, but I’m still anticipating some serious growth.
I went back and forth about how to take what he did
and came up with about the same conclusion that you have just stated. However my outlook was dimmed because other than the “didn’t play at all last season” this was more or less the same conclusion I’ve reached EVERY season about Martell. So the C+ reflects the true “C” meaning of “average”…average for Martell, average overall compared to other players.
—Dave
Sure
Fair enough—I certainly didn’t see much growth beyond what we saw from Martell two years ago. Guess I’m willing to accept that maybe the year off really cost Martell in some serious ways. In any case, next year will be big in terms of measuring his development. But I worry there may not be enough minutes to fairly assess that.
next year will be big in terms of measuring his development
Is anyone here old enough to remember a season before which this wasn’t said of him?
Disclaimer: everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazersedge.
Age has less to do with it than seasons in the league. Usually NBA players make their biggest strides in their years 1 to 3 before reaching a plateau from which they develop slower – or not at all. Martell will be in his 6th season next year (5 played).
Yes, but:
That’s a good point, but I think that age and an understanding of one’s own game (and the game in general) do correlate. A lot of guys start to understand the game, and their game, better in their mid- and even late-20s, and I think we’ll see that with Martell. (Yes, I’m trying to be optimistic here because I like Martell, but I also believe this is true.)
He played three seasons, improved each season, missed a year, then came back this season and showed that, if given 35 mpg and entrusted with a starting role, he’ll produce, improve, and probably become a consistent player. I think he’ll learn that he needs to be able to put the ball on the floor, get to the rim, draw fouls. He made major strides defensively this season.
So yeah, I hear you, and I know there are plenty of examples of guys plateauing in their third or fourth years, but there are exceptions, and given Martell’s young age, his injury, and a shaky spot in the rotation this year, I’m optimistic he hasn’t plateaued.
My main concern is that he’s not going to get the minutes in Portland that he seems to need to be consistent. He’ll need to be able to come off the bench and produce in an instant, and we didn’t see that often enough this year.
Martell's early years
were severely hampered by a dysfunctional team.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!
I can accept this ...
… but I’m still with travis on Martell.
Ray Allen, Rip Hamilaton and Reggie Miller all come to mind as spot shooters who have experienced a modicum of success in the NBA. And excepting possibly Hamilton, one doesn’t find any defensive stalwarts among that group. Martell also strikes me as being a better rebounded than any of those three – or at least having the potential to be better.
However I also agree in large part with Dave in that the odds of us seeing the Martell folks like me and travis believe in appear to be rather dependant on how he gets used. I still want to believe that Martell will adapt, but right now that is the one fly in the ointment I see when evaluating Martell’s position with the Blazers.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I fear one of those 4 players is not like the others, and it's Martell
After 5 seasons in the league http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=OBRiL
By age, which gives Martell more games than all else and is still not enough. Miller only has 2 seasons at that point and still catches him in totals in some categories, not to speak of per game and per 36 min stats.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=917w2
Martell would have to make a monster leap to reach the career level of those players. Hamilton also was the best player in the league at scoring when on the move and coming around screens in his prime, something more akin to Rudy (in Europe/last year) than Martell. And that is a limping comparison, he’s just on another level. Miller might stink as a TV analyst, but as a player he’s top 20 of all time in points scored and was at least like his team’s Roy in his prime. Or Kobe, who needed a long career to overtake him. In terms of shooting motion Martell he might be similar to Ray Allen, though Allen was at least as picture-perfect and a bit more precise from long range and especially from inside the three point line. While also being the focal point of the opposing defense, which Martell never was. And I can’t see his role and minutes changing to that any time soon.
I wasn't claiming he was as good.
More that these guys are the level he should strive for. If he manages to get within the same zip code as a shooter, the rest of his game helps somewhat in closing the gap.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I’d agree that it’s unlikely Martell’s going to learn to shoot coming off screens. Doesn’t that mean he should just stop trying? He’s already a good enough defender/hustle player to justify playing on the bench, and if cutting down on degree of difficulty of his shots can get him to 41% from range, his line would just look that much better.
Furthermore, Oden/LaMarcus/Brandon/Jerryd/Andre should offer ample shot creation that he’ll be useful if he can just hit the spot up trey.
As said in my first comment a few hours ago below and by Dave in his post, one big problem going forward with that is Martell gets more consistent with more minutes. He’s not so much instant offense when coming off the bench, especially coming in with a weaker lineup and asked to carry that. And if he developed into a one-dimensional player on offense, that would make it easier to defend him with players just staying home in front of him. He should at least try to develop his mid-range shooting and dribbling, since when he gets close to the rim he’s dangerous again with his athleticism. It’s more or less the area in between where he has trouble getting his scores.
As also said below I like the strides he has made this season on defense and his overall game. And his contract is fair if he continues to produce like that. Just his future role on the team is a bit a point of discussion with that inconsistency Dave pointed out especially when the minutes could go increasingly to Nic. It might become a case of “he’s more valuable to you than he is to us”, pretty much the exact opposite to where e.g. Oden stands.

by Norsktroll on May 13, 2010 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
hmmmm
I agree with this. What do you think of my shot selection point though? Marty shoots a lot of three pointers (6.0/36). This is more than Anthony Morrow (5.5/36 in a super-fast system) and Jared Dudley (5.0/36). Now I’m going to make some (hopefully warranted) assumptions.
Let’s say Marty shoots 20% on his 3s where he doesn’t get his feet set, and those comprise 1/6 of his shots. If that’s true, he could raise his percentage from a pretty pedestrian 37% to an excellent 41% simply by not shooting them anymore. And he’d still have hit over 100 3s in limited minutes! That would make him a much more useful player. Maybe he wouldn’t be instant offense, but he could be instant energy, and could knock down the open 3.
I’d be interested to see the Synergy numbers on him shooting off screens vs. spot-up to see if this is true, or if he’s actually just streaky as all get-out.
by atomiccafe on May 13, 2010 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
good points ac
rec
Andre Miller is the old guy in the corner at the YMCA who gets picked last and then wins the game singlehandedly with sky hooks from the deep right corner. - dwaynebillybob
I see several big differences from prior years
1. Martell has always been streaky, but I don’t think he’s EVER had a month like January. That’s really encouraging that he could put together a month like that.
2. I heard rival announcers expressing fear that Webster could get hot. I don’t think he’s ever really been feared before. The big quarter against Utah was seen as a fluke.
3. I saw Martell make some big plays in the clutch this year. In the past, he disappeared in the clutch.
4. Martell is legitimately seen as a very good defender now, probably one of the top 10-15 wing defenders in the league. I don’t think anyone would have said that before this year. I don’t think anyone would have thought, “Let’s put Webster on Kobe, he can do a good job on him” before this year.
5. He has improved his rebounding, and found ways to contribute even when the shot isn’t dropping. In the past, if the shot wasn’t dropping, forget it.
6. Martell has proved that he can be a valuable starter in this league, more than he’s ever shown that before. He’s struggled this year with limited minutes, as before, but “Martell as a starter” 2010 > “Martell as a starter 2008” — it’s not even close. At the end of the 08 season, there might have been one or two teams that would have viewed Martell as an upgrade to their starting SF. January guaranteed that there are more than that who would be interested in Martell now.
In my view, these are all improvements from two years ago. Maybe he was better two years ago than I thought he was.
I’d give him a solid B for the past year. Trading Martell would not be something I would see as a bad move, but neither would trading another player to free up more minutes for him.
Unlike the majority of Bedgers, I think Martell’s play means we could afford to trade Nic if the right blockbuster deal comes along. Nic’s future is much brighter, but Martell is good enough as a starter that it wouldn’t hamper us forever. I would be willing to include Nic as part of a deal for a top four PG or a player like Bosh. I was quite happy with Martell’s progress when he was getting minutes.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!
by jscot on May 13, 2010 2:04 AM PDT up reply actions 7 recs
I would be very surprised
but in the right situation, Martell could be a very, very good player.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!
I agree the situation is a significant factor for Martell
As mentioned earlier, he is best when given significant minutes and allowed to settle in, which could be a contrast to Outlaw, who seemed comfortable comming off the bench. Batum has eclipsed Martell on the Blazers. Martell could very well be another Frye, on a team that needs and commits to him. I like Martel, and feel there is a good chance he will break out sometime, somewhere. But the Blazers might not be the best situation for him. I don’t want mention how an injury to Martel opened up the door for Nicolas, and an injury to Nic could…….. But it is tough to be maiden in waiting for any talented player. Anyway, we would need to get good value for him.
"You be realistic," Oden said. "I’m going to stay happy. All right?"
If you take out the bit about "not being surprised" then I agree.
Nic has already had a better career than Martell in a season and a half. I fully expect that trend to hold.
Rather than restate what you said
I am just going to give you a rec. Especially about his play in the fourth (which was actually much better than Batum’s, although I expect Nic to improve in this area also). I would give him a B as well for the reasons you state.
#52
by blazermaniac32 on May 13, 2010 6:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Mobile-Rec
I feel silly repeating this, but I agree with all of your points.
I’ll just add my non-analytical view that I formed this year. Putting aside his prior career, what I saw this year in Webster is a guy who brought energy and solid effort through most of 88 games. People question his self-confidence, but outwardly he says and does everything we normally crave out of a baller, except score with consistency.
I see a guy who you could easily bring in in a pinch to fill in at three positions, and can defend four. There are other players who can make that claim but he really pulled it off. He’s not a ‘tweener’ but a classic ‘swingman’ as far as I can tell. You may point out that Nicolas has the same qualities and more potential. No argument, so Nic starts at SF and Martell should be first off the bench at 2—4 (or Martell comes off at SF and Nic spells Brandon). The number of permutations astound me.
Lastly, I also saw Martell hitting the hilite reels on multiple occasions, particularly with some ferocious dunks. I’d like to see him in the dunk contest next year. I’m waiting for him to shatter the glass.
by jiminut on May 13, 2010 6:16 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
What jscot said.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I agree, and one MUST consider
how valuable his inexpensive contract and willingness to come off the bench without complaining is to the big picture. When one considers trading or replacing him, those are important.
by superfly05 on May 13, 2010 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Those are very important
As we’ve seen with Rudy, players with fewer dimensions to their game sometimes have to take a back seat, and if they’re not willing to then they can be distractions. Martell has NEVER been a distraction to this team.
Andre Miller is the old guy in the corner at the YMCA who gets picked last and then wins the game singlehandedly with sky hooks from the deep right corner. - dwaynebillybob
Great observations!
I used to think putting Martell in wasn’t necessarily going to give us a lift and could potentially hurt (given his experience). I now don’t worry about the hurt part. The part I do worry about is when we really need him (offensively), will he be able to step up?
"You kill a mosquito with an axe. Nothing personal, but this is what I've got to do. You're in my way right now so I've got to get rid of you and I'll see you next year." -Monty Williams
Agree with most of this
Except the part about the team not missing Nic. Batum has a brighter future ahead of him than Martell, and even Webster knows it.
I would trade Rudy this summer and let Webster know that he is THE backup at the 2/3. He should be able to get his 30 mpg, as should Batum. If he doesn’t find that consistency when his role is clearly defined and his minutes are consistent, then we can look at other options next summer. It’s time to give him that “go hard or go home” chance for an entire season.
by Rodney Gustafson on May 13, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh, we'd miss Nic
But choose your PG/SG/SF lineup from the following choices:
Deron Williams, Brandon Roy, and Martell
Andre Miller, Brandon Roy, and Nic
I’d choose the former, any time. I’m not saying a trade for Williams would ever happen, but I am saying that if the right trade comes along, Martell’s presence means Nic is not necessarily untouchable. Without Martell, you couldn’t trade Nic even for Deron Williams, unless you had another SF deal in place, because the hole at SF would be immense. With Martell, you would say, “Yes, it’s a downgrade at SF to trade Nic, but the upgrade at PG is worth it.”
I don’t think Williams is going to be traded (but he wasn’t happy about their trade of Brewer AT ALL, and talked about leaving when his contract is up, so who knows? Especially after they let Boozer walk this summer). But blockbusters happen, and to get something great, you have to give up a lot.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!
I made the same case about Nic in regards to a scenario involving Steph Curry
Maybe Curry doesn’t end up being as good as he looks. But I’m glad to hear that you see the diamond in Webster’s rough, Jscot. It makes me feel more confident that I might not have been wrong.
I remember your comment
I didn’t chime in because I don’t agree on Curry — offensively, he would probably be a perfect fit for us, but I think his defense is pretty poor. But you were right about trading Nic — it isn’t something I want to do, but it’s an option on the table for the right player.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!
My question is does he get any allowance for coming back from injury?
I do agree with your points completely and his inconsistency throughout the season would indicate the same ol’ Marty but it does seem that most players need a second year to return after a season-long injury year.
"If you play Martell in a prominent role, usually with the starters and with big minutes, he can produce. Anything less and you're limited to the occasional outburst."
That’s my biggest question mark for him regarding his future with the team. He’s just not a typical “spark plug off the bench” guy. And if we assume Nicolas or another player holds down the SF spot in the future playing 30 minutes, there is only that role for Martell.
I was impressed with his defense this year against both wings and bigger players inside, as well as his durability and all-around positive effort to help the team and accept whatever role the coach put him in. Also for his first playoffs ever, that was an strong performance. Better than what Nic showed us last year, or Travis for that matter. He was not afraid.
On the negative side, unfortunately he is still only useful as a spot up shooter. Someone should generate a shot chart/analysis from Synergy how many shots he hits when he shoots off the one on one dribble or coming around a screen. It can’t be a whole lot. Subjectively, whenever he shoots on the move (jumpers, not dunks) he misses about 8 of 10. And his handles are still not much better, making it harder for him to get closer to the basket. Taking and making weird shots on the move over a defender a la Travis is really not Martell’s thing. He needs to have his feet set to get to 40+ percent.
So all in all, I would agree with Dave’s assessment. If he can get the Blazers an upgrade in a bundle with Joel or Rudy/Jerryd/whoever, it could be a good thing for the team and potentially for him if he sees regular minutes on his new team. If not, he’s a very useful player who causes no trouble, but not as useful going forward due to his decreased minutes.
Regarding usage.
I can envision Martell getting consistent minutes even with Batum.
With a healthy team, Nate could try out his two unit idea. Martell as the featured scorer with the 2nd unit could be a good match. Marty could also get some burn in a small lineup where Nic slides over to the 4 or even in a lineup with Nic covering the 2 and Marty the 3. The concept of playing those two together at times, particularly if it means giving Roy more rest, is one I find appealing.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I thought it worked pretty well
the few times we did it late in the season. Defense wins championships, and both of them on the floor is a good combo.
If we do end up trading Rudy, Marty can pick up minutes behind Brandon at SG
Marty can guard SGs (e.g., K*be). He was drafted as a 2, but with Brandon’s emergence, the Blazers shifted him to the 3.
"I'm passing it down," Howard said. "Showing the guys that, hey, here's an example of a guy who played 16 years. If you don't want to listen and get the valuable, free information from him - soak it up like a sponge - then you've got to be a damn fool."
Not a shot chart from Synergy, but...
http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Martell%20Webster
His eFG% is at it’s highest for the shots that his Ast are also high (96 of 3’s, meaning he only makes 4% of the 3’s he creates for himself.)
Hope that helps a little.
Martell gets a c+
I will be pissed if Nic Gets better than that.
"Intent is prior to content, the question is, does this generation really want truth?"
"Cogito ergo sum" -Descartes
why do you say that
Nic’s offense improved tremendously from his rookie year.
"In fact you might say that Ugly is the Blazers' secret weapon this year."
-Dave
As for the Blazers...They are officially the NBA equivalent of a movie serial killer
-basketbawful
Batum made major offensive strides this year
combined with some already-decent defense.
—Dave
by Dave on May 13, 2010 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He may have made strides, but anyone who says that Batum was more consistent than Martell is just crazy. In the same amount of minutes Martell put up the same numbers as Batum. Don’t get me wrong I think Batum is the better player, but I mean common, Batum put up 28 pts, then the next 2 games he was non existent. When Martell did this they called him inconsistent, when Batum did it they said it was because the SF position isn’t really featured in Portland’s offense. So which is it? How about we as Blazer fans stop overvaluing our players. I think jscot is absolutely right, if you can trade nic and a few more pieces for a top 5 pg why not pull that trigger? Martell isn’t going to get you that top 5 player, be realistic
"Intent is prior to content, the question is, does this generation really want truth?"
"Cogito ergo sum" -Descartes
Numbers don't lie
Batum: 52% from the floor and 41% from three
Martell: 40% from the floor and 37% from three
By statistical definition Nic was far more consistent, otherwise his shooting percentages wouldn’t have held up for the half season he played. Nic’s consistency issues were number of shot, not shooting percentages game to game like Martell’s.
by nikolokolus on May 13, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Watch any regular season games when Batum played?
What part(s) of Martell’s game is better than Batum’s?
by spencerbutte on May 13, 2010 12:46 AM PDT up reply actions
Martell was better in the fourth quarter then Nic
Although I don’t have the stat’s to back it up, so of course I could be wrong! Martell hit some big shots and big free throws down the stretch where I saw a lot of games that Nic couldn’t hit that three that would have been much needed.
#52
by blazermaniac32 on May 13, 2010 6:15 AM PDT up reply actions
That being said
Nic had an injury-plagued season. I don’t think his shoulder ever completely healed. Hopefully a more relaxed offseason will address this issue.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
That's the trouble with using a couple of "moments"
Martell did hit a couple of big shots in the fourth quarter of some games, and Nic missed a couple of big shots in a couple of fourth quarters … but overall Nic was far more consistent, far more reliable and at times so absolutely brilliant on defense (shutting Dirk down for instance in that one Dallas game) that a couple of missed shots almost become after thoughts.
Look at each player’s entire body of work.
In all fairness
you can’t really criticize any Blazer for their 4Q offensive performance unless their name is Brandon Roy or Andre Miller. No one else gets plays called for them; it’s all Roy/Miller iso. We generally acknowledge that’s Nate’s 4Q offensive scheme; there’s not enough of a sample size for anyone else.
Question to Walkoff ? "Did you watch any games this year ?"
Not many, Thanks to COINCAST !!!
Year # 4 soon to get under way.
What a great deal Management has wrought ! (Sarc.)
It's GO time !
by walkoff41 on May 13, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Classic reply.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
???
I thought that was Martell last year. Batum is lock down.
"I'm passing it down," Howard said. "Showing the guys that, hey, here's an example of a guy who played 16 years. If you don't want to listen and get the valuable, free information from him - soak it up like a sponge - then you've got to be a damn fool."
Agreed
The stats posted seem to indicate that Batum is much better, but in the few games I watched, Nic did seem to disappear at points (not that Martell didn’t either). I hate to pick between either of them. Batum seems destined for big time improvement, but I’ve got a hunch that Martell is going to improve as well. With Martell’s athleticism, if he had a handle, he’d be extremely dangerous.
by hellsfrozenover on May 13, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
That was a very fair assessment of Martell's game
I really like the guy, but he’s very inconsistent. And it’s true that he’s a bit more consistent when given bigger minutes, but even then, he’s not as good an all around player as Nic. Therefore, he doesn’t get those bigger minutes if we’re healthy.
My only quibble is regarding blocks. You say he won’t block shots, but for a small forward, he did fine this year. He averaged half a block per game, or 0.96 per 48. Not amazing, but above average at the position. A lot of those blocks were impressive, too.
Still on the Rex bandwagon.
by dan_the_man on May 13, 2010 12:37 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Martell was 8th on the team in BKs/48mins
Batum averaged 1.31 per 48min verses Martells 0.96.
by spencerbutte on May 13, 2010 1:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Irrelevant to his point
Martell got above average blocks for a small forward. The fact that Batum (and our centers and PFs) got more doesn’t change that.
If someone is good at something, you don’t refute it by saying somebody else did better. Irrelevant.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!
Give Martell Nic's wingspan
And I’m sure he’d put up similar block numbers.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
That’s a bit like saying, “if my father was a woman, he’d be my mother.” Martell doesn’t have Nic’s wingspan, so it’s a completely moot point.
by nikolokolus on May 13, 2010 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Trade Rudy and let Martell back up Roy/Batum
He’d get 25/30 min. a game, and I think it would help our defense quite a bit. Plus if he can get his rhythm and develop offensively once he’s being given minutes, he could develop into a legitimate wing threat. He’s a good cutter off of screens and can finish at the hoop if plays are run for him, it’s just that his only role in the offense has been spot-up shooter all season due to his inability to create off the bounce.
Things happen for a reason they say, but I say there's a reason things happen.
this is the argument to keep him
and as long as we aren’t passing on some ridiculous upside trade then I’m hoping he stays around…but meh, I see the argument for trade as well…
Geriatric Dunk Squad!
1/4/10 - Juwan Howard dunks on Chris Kaman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTkOqDgLb6s
3/7/10 - Andre Miller Tomahawk jams on the Denver Nuggets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-JVgm7F1QA
4/12/10 - Marcus Camby drops 30 and 13 on OKC to cement 50 wins. http://www.nba.com/blazers/media/camby_chant_041310.mp3
by Eat Politicians on May 13, 2010 1:31 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Barring a blockbuster trade
this is going to be the key decision, I think.
Unless we pull a blockbuster that sends Nic away, we have two wing backups (Martell and Rudy) who could each arguably back up both wing positions, and are each arguably good enough to play 25-30 mpg backing up the two spots. So it is potentially a waste of assets to keep both of them, and we should consider trading one and freeing the other two get all of those minutes, or trading them both and acquiring someone else to take those minutes.
So which to keep? Martell or Rudy? Based on prior years, keep Rudy. Based on January, keep Martell. Based on February/March, keep Rudy. Based on April, keep Martell.
Or send them both to Boston in a sign and trade for Ray Allen?
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!
What about ...
… Bayless / Rudy / Webster / Dante / Camby as a 2nd unit?
And considering how nice a pairing Cunningham and Batum appeared to be, Nate could leave Aldridge in, subbing everyone but Cunningham and then bring Dante back in with the starters.
Having 10 guys deserving of minutes is only a problem if you insist that an NBA rotation shouldn’t exceed 8 players.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I could definitely go with that
but you have to either have a second unit of players who are going to be happy with 10-12 mpg, or you have to have a coach who is going to trust them enough to play them 15-18 mpg and starters who are willing to cut their minutes to 30-33 mpg. I’m not sure we have either.
But perhaps all the injuries this year will finally convince Nate to use our depth and play the starters shorter minutes to keep them healthy for the playoff push.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!
I would like to see the latter.
As for the starters wanting to play more than 30 -33, I’d ask why? (Of the players, not you.)
One possible reason that comes to mind is potential impact on earnings. In most sports contract dollars tend to be statistically driven. One might argue that fewer minutes would impact per game numbers. My response would be two fold. One, Portland’s management appears to appreciate more sophisticated numbers than just per game averages. The second is that the top two players already have their big contracts. The two young guys that don’t, Oden and Batum, have the good fortune to play for one of the deepest pocket owners in all of sports. It is a fair bet that they can get theirs without having to worry about generating ALL-Star numbers.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Why?
Because everyone wants to be in the game. And if you are better than the guy that is playing (in general, the starters are) and your team loses by one when you only played 30 minutes, your feeling is going to be, “Why didn’t the coach play me more? I can go 35 minutes, easily. I can go 40 minutes! We lost!”
So you have to get the starters to buy in to that philosophy. Accept that you are building something really valuable with that second unit, and it may cost you a few regular season wins while you build it.
And get them to buy in to intense effort, especially on the defensive end, every minute they are on the court, because they only have to play 30 minutes anyway.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!
Martell or Rudy?
That is an easy call. You keep Martell between the two. If Rudy isn’t producing offensively, he isn’t giving you anything. If Martell’s shot isn’t falling, he still gives you some defense. I think the last couple weeks of the season and the playoffs is perfectly illustrative of this.
Rudy was visibly frustrated and unhappy, and played like it, to the point where he began to drop out of the rotation. Martell, on the other hand, may have been unhappy with his playing time, but continued to bring energy to other aspects of the game.
Also, like many other players on the roster, I believe Martell would thrive ifthe offense were more fluid and uptempo. His athleticism could make him very effective in the open court and as a slasher. Limiting by turning him into a spot up shooter out on the perimeter, in my opinion, does him a disservice.
As an aside, I give him an "A: for professionalism. He saw his minutes plummet when Nic came back, yet we hardly heard a peep out of him about it, and he give is all every time he was out on the court. That counts for something.
Martell had a very bad spell, too
but seemed to adjust finally.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!
I said this a couple of weeks ago
Where’s my royalty cheque?
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
In the mail.
Where else would it be?
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Dave your being generous with a C+
Any shooter that finishes a 5th season with a FG% of .405 and a has career FG% of .407 and needs major minutes to produce that should not get a “+” added to his grade.
I think the plus comes from playing 82 games
Geriatric Dunk Squad!
1/4/10 - Juwan Howard dunks on Chris Kaman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTkOqDgLb6s
3/7/10 - Andre Miller Tomahawk jams on the Denver Nuggets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-JVgm7F1QA
4/12/10 - Marcus Camby drops 30 and 13 on OKC to cement 50 wins. http://www.nba.com/blazers/media/camby_chant_041310.mp3
by Eat Politicians on May 13, 2010 1:31 AM PDT up reply actions
That is what Dave said
but 82 games has exposed his inability to get the ball through the hoop at an acceptable rate.
Posters always bring up what a “sweet shooter” he is. .405 is to low for a spot up shooter.
Compare him to Anthony Morrow (Salary 2010: $736,420) who will be available.
Morrow: FG% .468 3PT% .456 FT% .886 and he averaged 29min/game. He’s a shooter.
by spencerbutte on May 13, 2010 1:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Morrow's numbers would drop in our offense
but he’d be a nice acquisition if we could get him.
His 2010 salary is an irrelevance. No one is going to get him for that.
Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!
Hahahaha, Dave.
That last line is great. Thanks for not using it in Oden’s recap.
I'm just not crazy about player nick names...
by Hipster Olympic Team! on May 13, 2010 8:09 AM PDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Agree with everything
Pains me that Marty gets a C+, he is probably my favorite Blazer personality, but that’s about what he deserved.
I do think you understate the impact he had on defense, not because he’s a particularly special defender, but simply by being a true small forward. He and Batum were two of the top perimeter Blazers in both Regularized Adjusted Plus/Minus and simple Adjusted Plus/Minus. According to RAPM, he was in the top 15% of NBA players. That our two small forwards rated so highly tells me that using Brandon at the SF spot is absolutely terrible for our defense, so I’d only send him out if we can get another guy with a similar build back (not that they are rare, but you know).
Marty has everything-
everything except a feel for the game, which is weird because his entire waking life is dedicated to playing it. My guess is that he’s a very bright guy, imprisoned by his intellect. He’s too smart to stop thinking, which makes it impossible for him to joyously, and thoughtlessly, rise above the opposition, and crush them w/ a smile.
Yeah, he’s one talented head case, IMO.
Like Travis, but opposite
Y’know?
"I'm passing it down," Howard said. "Showing the guys that, hey, here's an example of a guy who played 16 years. If you don't want to listen and get the valuable, free information from him - soak it up like a sponge - then you've got to be a damn fool."
I never thought about it like that,
but why not. Travis doesn’t do a lot of thinking at all, but he has no natural instincts either.
Interesting, but I wouldn’t have referred to him as a head case, but rather a simpleton.
I’m also not sure which one I like better. They both seem to take a lot of blame.
by damonrayhymer on May 13, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
C+ is about right
I was hoping Martell could have been a real difference maker for the team, but as noted, aside from the occasional bursts of noticeable play, Martell wasn’t able to really impress. There are times where the effort is clearly there, and there are times when he is just there.
Martell is a good shooter when he has his feet planted and open, but struggled when rushed or pressured. It’s possible Oden’s presence inside might allow Martell a few more good looks, assuming they get time together on the floor, but considering a package deal involving Martell that might bring in a vet with a legitimate skill set… pull the trigger KP
"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein
Someone finally hit the NAIL ...
Martell would be a much more effective shooter and slasher to the basket
when playing with a real back to the basket monster. Bring back GO !!
It's GO time !
thing is
Martell is not getting Nic’s starting SF position and would seemingly be matched up most often with Camby on the floor as well. This doesn’t do much for Martell as Camby likes to float out to the free throw line and operate. Joel isn’t the scoring threat that would command any double teams either.
I like Webby, but for a number 6 pick several years ago… he aint panning out
"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein
It’s not fair to call someone a disappointment for their draft slot. Did Portland make the wrong pick? Absolutely—shoulda stuck with 3 and take Chris Paul, or we coulda had Danny Granger too. That said, 6th picks in the draft:
Shane Battier
Dajuan Wagner
Chris Kaman
Yi Jianlan
Martell Webster
Danilo Gallinari
Josh Childress
Jonny Flynn
Brandon Roy
I’d say Martell fits comfortably in the middle of that group. Not as good as Kaman, Roy or Childress, but there’s no reason he can’t be better than the rest.
Whoa whoa whoa there ac
I said he ain’t panning out…. I didn’t say he was a disappointment. By not panning out, I mean I don’t see anything more from Webster as far as contributions to the team go, and that his developmental curve his basically flattened out. I know what Webby brings and I don’t see much more on the horizon. I also see some value in him trade fodder. I like Webby, if he stays I won’t paint him a disappointment, if he goes in a trade, no tears shed.
"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein
can 'handle' be taught
keep seeing comments about Martell not having handles. should he devote the summer to dribbling? or should I assume by 23 he’s already found his ceiling in that respect?
I'd vote the latter
he might be able to make improvements, but would those improvements equate to “high level, NBA quality?” Doesn’t seem especially likely.
by nikolokolus on May 13, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
As a coach, I would say "maybe" . . .
I’m sure at this stage in a pro basketball players life, he has worked
on his handle in regular stints. Hand eye coordination is a big factor, size
of hands as well. There are many drills to help with ball handling, but in
traffic ball handling is much more difficult. In the end, 3M needs to dedicate
an hour a day of drills followed by two hours of half court games practicing
and utilizing those dribbling skills attacking a defender. (Hint – learn the low dribble !!)
It's GO time !
Two flaws that wont improve
1) Confidence – everybody in the NBA has got skills- those that excel have confidence in their game. Martel is shaky and will always be compared to Deron Williams and Chris Paul while in Portland.
2) Shooting Pct. It is rare for dudes to have significant improvements in shooting after 5 years in the league. Martel doesn’t bring enough else to the table to make up for poor shooting.
Not sure why the comparisons with CP3
and Deron Williams are so necessary. If we got Chris Paul, we probably wouldn’t have gotten BRoy LA & GO, and the Hornets couldn’t even make the playoffs this year, so why complain?
This...
tends to disappear when the environment doesn’t suit his strengths
…sums up Martell in a nutshell.
I like him though.
Andre Miller is the old guy in the corner at the YMCA who gets picked last and then wins the game singlehandedly with sky hooks from the deep right corner. - dwaynebillybob
I probably would have given Martell a B-. I liked his defense too much and my expectations were too low for me to give him a C+.
Here’s a question for you Blazermaniacs:
Would you rather hold onto Martell Webster or Rudy Fernandez more? Let’s say we packaged one of them with Joel’s expiring in a trade. Who is harder for you to let go of?
"You know, when you are in the game, you hear 20,000 people behind you, you don't feel anything."
- Nicolas Batum on playing through his shoulder injury during the 2010 playoffs.
I'd keep Martell in that scenario
At least Martell doesn’t give off toxic body language when things don’t go his way and he defends almost all the time, so at least half the time he’s giving you something. Rudy on the other hand is either hitting his threes or he’s a total liability, and he pretty clearly wants out.
wrong system
Martell is in the wrong system. He needs to be on a team that runs with a quick penetrating point guard. I guarantee his shooting percentage would rise with a Phoenix, Houston, type team. I don’t think Nate has ever bought into Martell’s game and he has the kid on such a tight leash he’s can’t play loose. If he misses two shots in a row he’s looking over his shoulder waiting for Nate to yank him. I don’t think Nate wants him to put the ball on the floor. He wants Martell as the 4th or 5th option to stand on the three point line and not much else. Find a new system Marty where you can run and shoot with freedom and see how good you can be. It just won’t happen in Portland.
You can put your charts away
Here are the reasons I keep Martell:
1. When he’s hitting his three’s, he stalks back on defense like he’s the lord of all creation.
2. He digs us out of snow drifts even when his foot is hurt.
3. He hustles like mad and tries out the occasional new hairstyle, unlike a certain scruffy Spaniard, who gels up during halftime.
4. His “Game On” and stupid Comcast dribbling stuff is more convincing than anyone else’s.
Of course, I would keep KP too, so what do I know?
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically

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