Hollinger Hypocrisy
by PDXBuckeye on Apr 27, 2010 8:44 PM PDT
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PrintSo after last year's playoffs I made a promise to myself that I would not write a post about officiating this year. There is nothing to be done about so why bother right? I mean so what, Greg Oden was put on the bench because Yao walked down the floor and leaned on Greg. I mean really what was Greg thinking being where Yao could lean on him like that. In case you have forgotten the call I am referring to here is the must watch link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdZhcm7vH38
As horrible as that call was, and it was horrible (I posted a post on Blazersedge that I am not particularly proud of afterward), last nights 4th foul call on Marcus Camby was far far worse, and more critical as well. Before we look at that foul though let me talk about the Hollinger Hypocrisy.
Last night, after the Joey Crawford incident, someone sent a tweet at Hollinger that Hollinger replied to:
How can I put it ...Suns have lost right to complain about whistles at end of Gm 4 RT @EScrote Does Stern still wonder why we call out refs?
Fair comment right? Seems fair to me, no problem here. He then makes this observation:
If this thing isn't over, it's getting there. Suns have outscored Portland 73-42 since the six minute mark of first quarter.
Again, no problem here a simple statement of fact (important for later in this post as well). He follows it up with this after Blazer fans must have swamped him with tweets about the Camby mystery call:
Blazer fans, stop complaining about the refs. They've been outscore by FORTY over the past 36 minutes, OK? That's why they're losing.
This is where my problem starts to set in, I will go into that after the video link is posted though. None of these illustrate the hypocrisy I am referring to, but it is a nice set up for you if you have not yet seen the video of this foul call. If you watched the game on TNT you will need to watch this clip to understand the controversy. Here is the clip nicely edited and posted by brandonmitchell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaZIAXJJDKQ
Ok, so there has been a little debate if Crawford just put the wrong guy on the line. No, if there was indeed a foul on the play it should have been called on Hill since he screened Camby while moving. Hill screened Camby off Amare in full stride. The contact was so negligible that it should have been considered a no call at best and a foul on Hill at worst.
Now down to the Hollinger Hypocrisy. I typically like Hollinger's stuff, he relies on data a bit and offers good analysis based on it. Leads generally to fair coverage. But, looking at those tweets, it is clearly Hollinger's position that one play does not make the difference in the outcome of a game. I mean he is right, the Blazers were outscored by 40 over the lst 36 minutes when he sent that tweet.
And then, when I get home from work I go to the Daily Dime about Game 5 and here is his headline:
1. One Play Changed Everything For The Suns
Really? One play. His basic point is that Phoenix started fast breaking of of Blazer makes and replicating that turned the tide of the game. Honestly, I know we Americans tend to like it both ways, we don't want to pay any taxes but we want the government to keep their hands off our medicare, we want cheap gas and we don't want endless war in the middle east, we want to protect our freedom while surrendering our personal Liberties (I am looking at you Arizona). We want all of these things, buut yu can not not have it both ways in any case.
Hollinger wants to have it both ways here. It can't be done. You can't tell Blazer fans that call on Camby was just one play and then claim that one play made the difference for the Suns. And yes I know they replicated that play, but, if Camby were allowed to participate in this game b the officials he likely would have continued to impact the game on repeated plays. You can't have it both ways here. Sorry John.
I can prove it too, given the data from game 5 alone I can demonstrate the impact having Camby on the floor was making on the game. I will do it from multiple vantage points as well.
First let's look simply at Marcus' time on the floor during the first 3 qtrs. (the game was largely out of hand by the start of the 4th qtr).
<!--StartFragment--> <!--EndFragment-->
| Time | Camby on Floor | Length | Score | Plus/Minus | Run | Team |
| 12:00 (1st) - 4:55 (1st) | Yes | 7:05 | 23-11 | +12 | 23-11 | Portland |
| 4:55 (1st) - 9:21 (2nd) | No | 7:16 | 34-34 | -12 | 23-11 | Phoenix |
| 9:21 (2nd) - 0:52 (2nd) | Yes | 8:29 | 47-52 | -5 | 18-13 | Phoenix |
| 0:52 (2nd) - 0:00 (2nd | No | 0:52 | 47-57 | -5 | 5-0 | Phoenix |
| 12:00 (3rd) - 5:20 (4th) | Yes | 6:40 | 58-65 | +3 | 11-8 | Portland |
| 5:20 (3rd) - 0:00 (3rd) | No | 5:20 | 66-84 | -11 | 19-8 | Phoenix |
| Game Over |
Camby was only benched in the first 3 quarters due to foul trouble.
What do the above numbers show us. With Camby on the floor in the first 3 qtrs. we were up 47-37 or +10, with Camby on the bench we were down 19-47 or -28. Even after Hollinger's "One play that changed the series" when Camby was on the floor Portland was only -2 in the score column. So if one play for Phoenix changed everything, it is pretty easy to say that one horrendous call by Joey Crawford was just as important, if not more so.
So John Hollinger, sure we were outscored by Forty points in 36 minutes, but with Camby IN THE GAME we outscored them 47-37 before this game was blown wide open after Crawford decided the game was too close.
I know, the rest of the team should have done something out there, but guess what, Camby was keying everything for us when he was out there, ON BOTH ENDS of the floor. Having him saddled with foul trouble was THE DIFFERENCE in this game. His presence in the high post freed up some lanes, gave Aldridge more room to operate and allowed for Camby himself to get some assists and points.
There is no doubt that call changed the outcome of this game. Yeah, the Blazer should have played through it, but, given the numbers, I can bet you this game ends up a whole lot differently if Camby is not saddled with those fouls and the 4th was essentially giving the game to Phoenix. Anyone watching knew it too, Camby was the only thing keeping us in the game and we all knew it was over when he got that 4th foul. I even went over and congratulated BSotSers on the win immediately after that call in the 3rd qtr, much to their surprise.
Of course, spelling this all out, looking at the numbers does not really do much. The officiating in the NBA is still horrible. Refs like Joey Crawford often pick the winners of games. It is really a shame a team I love in a sport I love to watch is subject to such ridiculous officiating. Insult to injury is that if anyone complains about it they are silenced/fined by the NBA. If a call like this were this blown in any other sport there would at least be a mention of it in the news some where the next day. Nope, just a few bloggers at best have even mentioned it.
NBA officiating needs to be fixed, EVERY fan of the NBA knows it. How do we make it happen? How about wrapping up with a poll to get your thoughts:
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here are the video links
Oden/Yao – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdZhcm7vH38
Camby/???? – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaZIAXJJDKQ
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
I have a theory
I think he wanted to call a foul to reduce the offball contact. Like so many refs he had his mind made up before the foul. Roy banged into someone so he wanted to call Roy but then quickly realized Roy had 4 fouls and giving a star his 5th on ticky tack offball bump would look bad so he called Camby and sense the Blazers were switching almost every pick and roll he said it was on Nash.
Rec'ed for Truth
It’s disgusting that the refs have the power to sway games so much.
It’s disgusting when they whistle “make up calls” after they blow a call.
It’s disgusting that there’s no accountability on the part of the refs and that compaining gets someone fined.
It’s disgusting that the sport we love is plagued by incompetence and, if not corruption, then certainly an absence of trustworthiness.
And most disgusting of all is that we can’t do a darn thing about it.
MAR-CUS CAM-BY clap-clap-clapclapclap
MAR-CUS CAM-BY clap-clap-clapclapclap
by postup on Apr 27, 2010 9:07 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
it is lack of sportswriter interest in the subject that I find annoying
particularly when the officials are run out of the league office instead of an independent governing body as is the case in every other major professional sport.
The silence is deafening around stuff like this.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
by PDXBuckeye on Apr 27, 2010 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
If it is true that other major leagues don't control the refs directly,
You just hit on the solution. Petition the league to make the referees independent of the league like other major sports.
I say if it is true, because I don’t follow other major leagues in any depth whatsoever, so I have no idea whether or not the refs are independent in all the other leagues.
Is there some sites that talk about the refs being independent in the NFL and MLB? I’d love to see some sort of discussion about how that one thing has impacted those leagues. If that has been a positive change for them – assuming they were ever not independent – then perhaps there should be an effort by NBA fans to pressure the NBA to adopt the same structure.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
Speaking of OKC/LAL
if it were the Blazers hitting OKC (or apparently any team) like that, after 5 mins in the 1st qtr they’d be in the penalty.
LAL is hammering guys and not getting whistled.
and,
the non-shooting call on Shaq’s foul on Rose was a blatent miss by the refs, 6 point swing to CLE, should have been an and 1 and the lead for CHI.
"Better, not good, but better." - Herb Brooks
did not see either
listening to the lakrs game as I typed this, knew they were way up that is about it.
there are officiating problems everywhere. I remember Chicago getting jobbed big time in that Celtics series last season…
Does not make the Camby thing any less wrong.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
...
I honestly think Hollinger must of got yelled at by someone after he made this…
- Mavs survive cold shooting, crazy whistles
And also tweeted about it (those tweets showed up on espn.com homepage). Ever since then he’s been avoiding/contradicting himself about officiating involving Portland. Not saying he should be on our side but he should of never got into it in the first place.
I am surprised though that he wrote off the Joey Crawford call and brought up irrelevant information….
Just saw replay of the Camby foul that has Blazer fans so upset. Camby fouled Grant Hill, that part was legit. But Joey had Nash shoot FTs! – John Hollinger Tweet
then once Bill Simmon’s tweeted about the call…
Really, we’re still tweeting this? Foul was real, Joey just sent Nash to line instd of Hill. Net diff of 0.24 pts. They trailed by 27 in 4th – John Hollinger Tweet
Looking at just the stats, he completely ignored the fact it was Camby’s 4th foul and had to be taken out of the game, and the blazers losing their two main centers Camby is the last man standing. He was our defense, the man who doesn’t make the opposing team score on us easily. It’s illogical to think in the way Hollinger pointed out and is a completely false stat because basketball is all about momentum and once that momentum has been pulled away then the game changes.
Everyone knows the blazers are injury depleted, so once they lose one of their main core players (especially defense) then we are exposed big time, everyone knows that about the Blazers. Howard also came in and was in foul trouble, so they had to back away and not be as aggressive, that’s how the game works.
What bothers me though is when players get ridiculous fouls/ghost fouls that make them go to the bench and take them away from the competition. The first video with Oden from last year was also his 4th foul in the 3rd quarter. It’s just frustrating and hard not to be super bias about it.
Those 2 foul videos people can argue there are clear fouls, but are very very ticky tacky and virtually every possession in a game in the playoffs players will be more aggressive and more focused on defending. If they were called like that all game no players would be standing, everyone would foul out almost instantly. I just wish there was some consistency like I’ve always said.
What’s worse is when people go off about how it’s a make up call for the previous game being so badly officiated and then mark it off like it’s okay. It should never be okay, games should be called consistently and there shouldn’t be more focus on one team. Like next game if the blazers get a bunch of calls in their favor, sure it will be awesome if we win but the battle of officiating will never end. It should not be this way, it’s the only part of the game that’s frustrating to watch.
I just want to watch basketball and not have to include anything about officiating. I understand a few missed calls but the Joey Crawford incident should never happen, especially in the playoffs.
*and for the record, the blazers stunk last game and let it go. momentum was lost and it was their fault. I don’t blame the refs for the blazers loss… but that Joey Crawford call was a real killer and it hurts to watch it everytime. No matter what team people cheer for, they should look at it for what it is, a really bad inexcusable call and should understand why it’s absolute donky doodoo.
I’m rambling again, time to stop. Good post, rec’d
- www.ichabodmedia.com
- www.portugaltheman.com
by brandonmitchell on Apr 27, 2010 9:26 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
...
And for the record, nobody likes people who complain about officiating for a loss. People shouldn’t complain in that context, they should complain about how it’s a relevant discussion within the NBA. They should also quit babbling on about conspiracy theories and etc (people love that stuff).
The subject on hand should be strictly just about poor officiating in general and the lack of information the NBA gives us on how situations are handled. After all we the fans keep the NBA in business and we have a right to some information and not dodgy lack-of-info crap.
- www.ichabodmedia.com
- www.portugaltheman.com
by brandonmitchell on Apr 27, 2010 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Bad calls against us
only make the victories taste sweeter.
Blazers.
We did promptly get a make up call on the other end
It sucks that the Blazers played so poorly after that amazing start. The Camby foul/play was comical in that Joey was so adamant that Nash needed to go to the line. I feel your frustration but I don’t think there is a conspiracy to advance the Suns. That team isn’t selling out it’s own arena in the playoffs and it’s lead by Amare a player that absolutely nobody likes. Now when the Lakers or Cavs are involved I do believe the pressure is on the refs to favor the flagship franchises. I support your general thesis that the NBA officials should be controlled by an independent governing authority but I seriously don’t think the officials have it out for our team.
it is not really a make up call unless it put nash on the bench
in terms of impact Camby was the biggest factor for the blazers and he was takin out of the game.
i doubt there is a conspiracy, but something ain’t right either…
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
I'm a suns fan
and i agree that the officiating in the NBA is ridiculous. Unless you are one of the NBA’s flagship franchises you tend to get screwed. I know i have felt that way in the past and I’m sure i will feel that way again.
Are you allowed to post here?
Just kidding. I’m glad you’re posting here.
you guys beat us
but camby being out on such a bogus call sealed our fate.
the shame of it is we will never know what would have happened without that call
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
right
my point is only that when camby was in we were scoring more than phoenix, it was when he was out that phoenix trounced us. Him being benched by foul trouble affected the outcome.
yes, other people should have performed better, but when he was in we were winning despite the others poor play
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Once again
that’s on Nate. Camby didn’t foul out.
Phoenix played a lot better, thus they won the game. I’m all for Brandon’s post and the video to make Crawford look bad, but let’s move on already. Crawford made a bad call, and Nate foolishly stuck to his yank-the-guy-who-is-sort-of-in-foul-trouble-but-not-really rule.
I have to agree with you.
When did four fouls become the standard for being ejected from a game?
Nate isn’t blind, he could see how much Camby was affecting the game and how poorly the team was playing defensively and how poorly they were rebounding without him in there. What happened when Camby came out of the game was no surprise to McMillan, or at least it shouldn’t have been.
He should have let Camby stay in the game and play through it.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
I can see how Nate could say what he does when the team doesn't do well on the boards...
The team before the Camby trade held its own in the rebounding department and thus they should be able to get rebounds without Camby in the game also. This would require liberal doses of Jeff Pendagraph in the game however and we all know Nate’s phobia about roookies.
At the same time, if the team just isn’t getting it done, how do you make that determination that they should just tough it out and accomplish something they’re clearly aren’t in the mindset to do in a playoff game?
Nate’s rigidity really drives me nuts sometimes.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
This is the type of comment that just drives me crazy....
Fans have been trained to repeat this type of argument ad naseum:
“If we rebounded better it wouldn’t have mattered;
If we had shot better it wouldn’t have mattered;
If, if, if………”
This is a basic logical fallacy. Just because the team could have performed better in some other way does not mean that a bad call did not impact the game. The other night was a perfect example. Portland was struggling to stay in the game. In particular, our interior defense and rebounding were a problem. In spite of this, the margin was down to seven when Camby got hit with the vapor foul. It clearly sealed the Blazers fate and undermined our ability to compete in exactly the areas where we were struggling.
Should LMA have done a better job on the boards? Of course, but the two issues are not the same and should not be conflated.
It seems to me that this is just one of the many ways that fans have been intimidated into silence about the quality of the officiating.
Refs are going to make mistakes. I don’t have a problem with that. What I do object to is that there appears to be a pattern of bias in the officiating.
Everyone acknowledges that there is a superstar bias.
Most acknowledge that there is a home court bias.
It certainly seems reasonable to speculate about the possibility of a “marketing bias” that tends over time to favor longer series and more desirable match-ups of larger market teams from the point of view of the league.
I’m tired of being called a “Tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist” for acknowledging the possibility. It doesn’t make you a crazy homer to look at how officiating is structured in the NBA and recognize that it would be pretty easy for the refs to lightly put their fingers on the scale at key moments.
by upper left corner on Apr 28, 2010 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions
What I do object to is that there appears to be a pattern of bias in the officiating.
Everyone acknowledges that there is a superstar bias.
Most acknowledge that there is a home court bias.
It certainly seems reasonable to speculate about the possibility of a "marketing bias" that tends over time to favor longer series and more desirable match-ups of larger market teams from the point of view of the league.
When Donaghy said things like “Dick Bavetta told me he can influence the outcome of a game” the overwhelming response is “well, you can’t trust Tim’s word. He’s a convicted felon who’s just looking out for his best interests”
But then we see Dick Bavetta calling key playoff games when the big market team gets “down” in a series a needs a big momentum-changing win.
I’m not saying it’s impossible for a small market team to win a championship (hello, San Antonio) but it helps if you have a least one superstar and your roster is playing so well that it’s impossible for the league-sanctioned officials to mess with the outcome of your games without their bias being completely exposed
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
What can the Blazers affect more
The refs? Or their effort?…
by Sabonis4Ever on Apr 28, 2010 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Continuing to miss the point
This is sort of like an abused spouse blaming themselves for being battered
“If only I hadn’t made him angry. If only I was prettier. If, if, if”
An abused spouse is not responsible for their abuse.
A team that is subjected to a pattern of biased officiating is not responsible for playing so well that the bad calls don’t matter. The game should be called the same for all teams in all situations.
Sending our best rebounder and interior defender to the bench at a critical moment of a critical game impacted our ability to compete. Chalking the results of that impact up to “a lack of effort” is just making excuses for the officiating. In sociology, it is called “blaming the victim.”
None of what I am saying discounts that effort matters, or that the team needs maximum effort to be successful.
by upper left corner on Apr 29, 2010 6:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Or did they?
How physical can you be while in tick tacky foul trouble?
Camby boxes out better than anyone else, so taking him out really hurts.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
I think Hollinger is good at what he does.
But sometimes he does stuff like this and it just ruins all the respect I’ve had for him and he just builds it back up until it happens again. I get your frustration, but overall I think Hollinger is a pretty good writer.
Bat88m
yeah
he just engaged in what I deemeed a reasonable manner and then hid behind the same BS it all balances out/it wasjust one play garbage no one believes. He doesn’t believe it that is for sure.
I posted this in a comment above, the real shame of this system is that no sportwriter is really addressing this call and talking about the need for officiating reform in the league.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
other joey crawford disasters
The last one's the best
I’ve been watching who the officials; fearing to hear Mauers name. When they announced Crawford, I thought I should just turn the TV off now. The only thing that kept me going is that you never quite no who his incompetence will benefit.
I'm a really really ridiculously good looking orange mocha frappaccino drinking manhammer sandwich
Meh
Hollinger is a stat guy. Obviously he’s be more concerned about a stat (the score) than what he actually sees in the game.
That was me that got carried away on twitter... lol.
Anyway I think Hollinger probably was warned about calling out the officials. If I was making a boatload of money off the NBA I would never point out a bad call, so I really don’t blame him. I do think he has heard so much from Portland fans complaining that he likes to screw with us now kind of like Bill Simons does. Also I tend to believe the officials have a bigger impact than people let on. I mean they can allow incidental contact on one end and call it ticky tacky on the other and once a guy like Camby has 3 or 4 fouls he can’t be as aggressive in going after every shot (although Camby does get away with a lot, especially compared to GO). For instance one foul in game 5 on Camby he bumped into a guy going for a board and was called for a foul (I am not saying if it was a foul or not), a very similar play happened on the other end and no foul was called. Little stuff like that kind of makes you wonder. Anyway I suspect the Blazers will get the benefit of the whistles tonight. Also I must point out that David Stern himself couldn’t have scripted a better first round so far… that has got to make you wonder.. .lol.
9 out of 10 calls are accurate...
Yea, Nash went to the line instead of Grant Hill; yea, Joey Crawford is awful, but Camby had 3 other fouls before that. I’m all for complaining and throwing temper tantrums when a ref blows a call that affects a game in the last 60 seconds, but when 9 out of 10 calls are accurate (and it’s probably better than that) you can’t really complain. The Blazers did not lose because of one or even two poor calls by a referee. They lost because they couldn’t rebound to save their life, or their playoff lives as the case may be.
I think if you read the article by Hollinger, you would see that he wasn’t necessarily saying that one play changed the course of the game, he was saying that it was the mentality that changed and it happened in one play. That one play showed the Suns that they could still run even after the Blazers made a bucket. Perhaps it was poor wording by Hollinger, but in fairness, it’s not fair to compare a tweet (160 characters) to a full-fledged article on ESPN.com.
Let’s get over the refs and move on to the next game. 99% of the team that plays better win’s the game. As much as I hate the Thunder, the Thunder/Jazz game is the only example of a game this season that I can think of that was truly altered by the referees.
This series isn’t over, let’s hope that the Blazers come out like they did last game and can keep up the energy past the 6 minute mark. REBOUND REBOUND REBOUND.
by Brandon James Smith on Apr 28, 2010 9:28 AM PDT reply actions
define temper tantrum
if you read the post i give a summary of Hollingers larger point, they replicated success. I largely use facts a data to make my larger point…I would hardly rate this a a temper tantrum.
There was not a foul at all on that play, if there was one it probably should have been called on Hill as he screened Camby at a full run. The defender has the right to trail his guy, when co ntact is made by a screening offensive player and a defender and the screener is moving that is illegal. The contact on the play was negligible so it should have been a no call at best. If you watch the video, Hill was the first to raise his hands in a WTF sort of way, he knew he was moving and did not think the contact warranted a call on himself.
I concede that the Suns outplayed the Blazers, but I will not concede that that phantom call did not have any impact on the game. NBA officiating has been bad for a decade or more. They need to reform officiating of NBA games. Starting with an independent governing body for officials.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
I didn't say you were throwing a temper tantrum...
I was saying that I support complaining and throwing one if the game is altered by a call in the last 60 seconds. My point was that the game was not significantly altered by the call (I would gladly bet my life savings that the Blazers still lose that game even if that call is not made) and that it’s unfair to call Hollinger a hypocrite because you are comparing a tweet and an article.
Like I said, I wasn’t saying that you were throwing a tantrum, though I wouldn’t say the same out some people on here. I’m tired of the reputation that Blazer fans get for being so whiney. That being said, I believe that all professional sports associations would benefit from officials being governed by an independent organization.
by Brandon James Smith on Apr 28, 2010 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
well then we are of a differing opinion
when Camby was on the floor we lead in this game, when he was forced out we got blown out. Being restricted to about 30 minutes instead of being available for up to 40 – 42 made a huge difference in the outcome of this game.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
Camby can not and does not play 40-42 productive minutes
He played 29 minutes, 2 less than his average during the playoffs. I would imagine he would have played more down the stretch if it had not been for the large lead the Sun’s had.
Yes, maybe he plays a few more minutes without the foul. Maybe he plays his 30-32 minutes at a different time in the game…I’m not saying it’s not possible. But there was absolutely no way Camby was going to play 40-42 minutes during the game. That is something Camby has done only four times this season (2 of them were overtime games). Only one of those was with the Blazers, and it had gone into overtime.
If we can’t hold a lead when our 30-32 minute big man is not on the court, then we are not going to win. Simple as that. He is not going to play 40+ minutes. Our bench has to step up…
by Brandon James Smith on Apr 29, 2010 6:25 AM PDT up reply actions
well to be fair
he played 38 minutes in game 1…games 2 and 3 were way out of hand so it makes sense he did not get as much court time in those 2.
6 of his 29 minutes came after the game was out of hand in the 4th.
i never said our bench did not need to step up. the officials did take camby effectively out of the game is my point
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
The second foul on Camby was also very questionable.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
what this really shows
is that Juwan Howard is useless during playoff basketball. Its like playing defense with only 4 people when hes on the court. If him and Rudy are out together we may as well put a sign out saying “dont worry we cant play defense or offense right now.”
he isn't useless... he has 6 good playoff fouls in him...
of course with everything being a flagrant maybe that does make him useless.
You are completely correct, but I hate complaining about the refs.
A.) It doesn’t change anything except making people upset.
B.) It reminds me of a certain Suns writer who I can’t stand.
by Nick Van Excellent on Apr 28, 2010 9:57 AM PDT reply actions
I've been making these same observations for 25+ years
The only solution is to have more than 1 legit center on your roster. Camby, Oden and Przy are not one too many big guys.
But I’m sure I’ll be reading “let’s trade Joel for ____” fanposts and responses from now until mid-February
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Yeah, we'll see lots of those posts.
I will do my best to ignore their existence though.
Camby isn’t a center exclusively anyway. He can also play power-forward and thus there is no log-jam at center.
Not that you don’t know that already. Just saying.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
People want to trade Joel because they think his career is over.
Having a guy who can’t play basketball effectively anymore isn’t helping anyone. I’m not saying he’s definitely done physically, but I think there’s a good chance he never plays for the Blazers again, which is a huge bummer.
by Nick Van Excellent on Apr 28, 2010 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
There's either a lot of doctors or psychics around here
If they can tell 6-9 months in advance that Joel’s knee won’t respond to rehab and he’ll be unable to resume his NBA career
I understand asset management. If the Blazers can get something of value for Przybilla’s contract at the tail end of his career then I’m all for it. It’s the “circling vultures” that bother me. Give the guy a chance before kicking him to the curb. JP was the backbone of the team’s defense for years while they rebuilt the roster. He’s worth more than being discussed as a number for salary cap relief in a hypothetical trade. If he can recover and return to the court next winter/spring, Joel would be an extremely valuable contributer to the Blazers next April-June.
For example: maybe they wouldn’t get out-rebounded and lose a future game 5 on the road?
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
to the day trader's out there
all of these guys are no more a number for salary cap. it is what interests them about the game. I am not of fan of their mindset, but I don’t hold it against them, to each their own. i don’t think it is anything personal about the players, they are just fascinated by all of the possibilities.
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
I never said his career was over, how could anyone but his doctor possibly know that?
But it’s certainly not far fetched. At the very least his health isn’t exactly reliable going forward, whatever way you look at it. That’s major trauma to the knee and the prognosis of basketball players of his size with similar injuries aren’t great. I’m just going off history.
I wouldn’t mind keeping Joel at all, but if there’s a good deal out there I think you have to look long and hard at it.
by Nick Van Excellent on Apr 28, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Funny
i tried to write JH a comment about this very thing through his employer’s god-awful website, but when i clicked the submit button, nothing happened. i wouldn’t doubt that they intentionally disabled the button….
I think nate mcmillan
should carry around a celebratory challenge flag, like the nfl, he can throw them into the analysts and reporters, that’d make em talk about it, ipso facto, problem solved :)
Camby fouled Grant Hill, not Nash.
Big deal. I can’t believe folks are still talking about this. Did it affect the game that Nash shot the fts instead of Hill? Maybe, Nash is a better foul shooter at 94% instead of 82% on the year. Still, 82% is also pretty damn good, so it seems fair to assume that the mistake made no difference at all.
It is illustrative of Crawford’s pig-headedness but had no discernible effect on the game.
lol... you got me there.
But really, I am pretty sure you are allowed to have a hand on a guy when fronting the post. Not too sure though.
yea, you are
ticky tack fouls are a part of life, maybe there is a league conspiracy to make us win this series, if that’s the case I hope it’s to win the championship…and i’m sorry you guys had to play us, if that’s the case i mean.
The two calls that killed me were actually no calls
One was on Bayless when he was hit on the arm attempting a three, no call, phx goes down to the other end and hits a 3. 6 point swing to phx’s favor. The other was when LMA got whacked by two guys, no call, phx goes down and hits a 3. 5 point swing in phx’s favor. That’s a total of 11 points net towards phx in that game, and as everyone has pointed out, phx is a front-running team, that is to say that when they get a good lead they tend to keep it and make it larger. The two games we have one this post-season have been close throughout, and we have one by attrition. Now I will say that our guys need to do a better job of compensating for any advantage that they lose due to someone going out of the game, such as when Camby goes out, someone needs to become that post threat on defense, and start banging the boards. That said, there is little to support the idea that the ref’s have no impact on the game, a theory that radio, television and reporters seem to hold so closely to.
I was blinded to that by sick alley-oops and facials
not to mention Greg crotchifyin’ suckas
Of course refs have an impact
Otherwise why are they out there at all?
The eternal optimist
by I can't think of a good screen name... on Apr 28, 2010 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions
right
but their role should be to foster fair play according to the rules. calls like this do not accomplish that goal
"Oh Yeah!" ~ Kool Aid Man
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