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Blazersedge Mailbag: March 5th, 2010

It's time for another edition of the Blazersedge Mailbag.  I didn't get through all of the questions in the hopper so we'll probably do this again early next week.  E-mail me your questions at blazersub@yahoo.com if you want them included.  I tried to pick a few of the older and a few of the most recent/topical questions for this edition.  For some of you I have edited down your question to the heart of the matter.  Forgive me for paraphrasing, but it helps for clarity.

I'm having some serious internal turmoil about this team right now.  Do we have "great young talent", or is this what you get from a group of not fully developed guys who are supposed to be role players in this system?

The answer to both questions is "yes".  We do have some nice young talent, guys that many teams would love the chance to develop.  We also have, or at least had before the Outlaw trade, too many of them of the same age at the same positions.  In normal circumstances there's a progression.  An older star mans a position while a younger guy plays the understudy for a couple years then the star is moved to make way.  Or maybe a role player plays ahead of a young guy but you don't particularly care whether the role player gets 40 minutes or 4 depending on how quickly the youngster develops.  Or at least you surround the young guy you're throwing into the rotation with veterans who can cover for him and guide him along.  None of these situations cover what the Blazers have gone through in the last couple of years.

It's all too easy to forget that Roy and Aldridge, the mainstays of the team, are only in their fourth seasons.  How many minutes does a fourth-year star give up for an up-and-comer?  Zero.  They're the ones grabbing the minutes.  How soon can you foresee those players making way for the younger guys.  Oh...in about six or seven years.  How well are fourth-year players, even the best ones, able to cover for their teammates?  Not very well.  They're still about their own game.  Then you throw in Martell Webster (who has never gotten steady, let alone big-time, NBA experience), Nicolas Batum, Rudy Fernandez, Jerryd Bayless, and Dante Cunningham even.  All of these guys are rightfully fighting for what's theirs.  All of them have to think about their own game more than each other.  They need to establish themselves, they need to develop their own confidence, and they just don't have the experience to see the game the way a 10-year veteran does.  When you think about it like this it's a miracle the progress has come as quickly as it has.  That's a testament to the talent that's on this team and their willingness to do the best they can to put the team first.  This could be a complete disaster.  Instead, even at its worst, it's simply uncomfortable.  For that you have to give everyone involved a hearty "Bravo!"

You also see why we've been moving to acquire guys like Miller and Camby.  But even they are a finger in the dike at this point.  You still have role players who aren't really role players but (theoretically) budding stars.  You still have little room for those guys to develop and little assurance that the situation will change.  You have a bunch of guys running around trying to find themselves and still win games against teams that may look less promising on paper but at least know what they're about.  This is a big part of the inconsistency you see.  You have a bunch of young guys looking to their future and not seeing any avenue to gain the minutes they think they deserve.  That's a big part of the discontent, frustration, and yes, sometimes pressing you see.

The inevitable question will arise, "Isn't this what the coaching staff is supposed to do, define roles?"  Yes, it is.  But you also have to play the hand you're dealt.  If you want those roles established in a more classic way you also have to live with some of these young guys flat-out not playing.  There's not room to develop them all or let all of them reach their full potential.  The coaching staff is trying to balance wins, development of talent, role definition, and chemistry.  Strengthening one often leads to a weakness in another.  I'm pretty sure the picture became clearer when Blake and Outlaw were traded.  We'll see if it doesn't clear up more over the summer.

Is the system at fault or would we get killed by speeding up the game?

Despite the predictable nature of the offensive system we run, I don't think it's necessarily designed to be as slow as it is.  How many times have you seen the coaching staff jump up and yell, "Stop that!" when the Blazers are on the run?  Indeed most of the Blazer huddles we see on the national broadcasts consist of Nate begging the team to cut harder, move more, and pick up the pace.  However if we're going to run iso sets for Roy and Aldridge we also have to deal with the reality that both of those players take a long time to set up their shots.  It's made worse, of course, by the defense already knowing what we're going to do.  How do we speed up the game?  It doesn't start on the offensive end, but the defensive.  Knowing that we were going to get the rebound off of every missed shot would go a long way towards speeding up the game, as some of our guys could legitimately leak out then.  Greg Oden should help with that.  Great defense in the lane, forcing shots to come from farther out, miss more, and rebound long would also help.  Again, Oden should up the quotient there.  Generating turnovers would benefit the offense greatly, as we've seen in the last couple of games.  Heretofore we've been conservative on defense because we haven't had that anchor in the middle to watch players' backs.  My hope is that, again, great lane defense will allow guys like Fernandez, Batum, and Miller to take more risks on the perimeter.  If we can become a more opportunistic defense while maintaining integrity and dominating the boards, you're going to see the pace and offensive production rise.  And no, that won't kill us.  It's going to make us very, very dangerous.

Did we do the right thing in building around Roy, LMA, and Oden? After all, Oden and Roy have both fought injuries throughout their careers and LMA is inconsistent. Whether these 3 can even play together (STILL!) remains to be seen. Our core, the 3 guys that most fans pin championship hopes on, how many games have they even played together in the last 3 years!?! 50? 75?

The follow-up question here is, "Right thing as opposed to what?"  What alternatives did we have?  The obvious one is Durant and people are going to talk about that throughout the ages.  We've covered it ad nauseum.  It's a marathon in which OKC is leading after 4 miles.  Let's see where we finish.  It's fairly certain Durant would still be scoring in a Portland uniform.  How much, how well alongside Roy and Aldridge, what you'd ever see of Nicolas Batum or Martell Webster, and whether you'd ever get some of those critical things we mentioned in the last answer or whether you'd be stuck in the same grind with a different name on the uniform...those are open questions.  Who else would you have wanted to build around from the Roy-Aldridge draft?  Who would you have traded either for in the meantime?  Amare Stoudemire?  I'm not sure we'd like him any better.  In any case both Roy and Aldridge will have high trade value into the future so it's not like you're in a huge pickle if you want to make changes.

The injuries have been a major bummer but we also have to ask if they've disguised potential greatness while we're asking if they've disguised an inability to play together.  The truth is that we don't know yet.  Give me another 100 games with them playing together and I can give you a better answer.  Let's hope that doesn't take the next four seasons though!

I guess at this point the answer to your question, with the obvious asterisk of Kevin Durant, is yes...we probably did the right thing.   

Click through for questions about Martell Webster on the drive, Jerryd Bayless at the point, the right offense for Rudy, the meaning of the season, the meaning of the Oklahoma City Thunder, Portland's playoff chances, Stats vs. Observations, and more... 

Star-divide

 

Will Martell Webster ever learn how to drive off the dribble?

I don't think so, but I know people who disagree with me.  I'm happy he's learned to defend better.

Will Rudy be able to thrive in a such a static system that depends on fixed sets, or does he need a faster, more flowing offense to have a real impact?

Rudy needs the NBA 20 years ago.  Actually many folks would like to see the NBA of 20 years ago.  I don't think there's any doubt he'd be utilized better in a system like Phoenix or New York.  However I think he can create some of his own system, either with the right second unit guys or perhaps as part of a point guard committee in the starting lineup.  I don't think we'll see the same offense in two years.  Then again Rudy may not be a Blazer in two years.

Will we ever acknowledge that B-Rex is undersized at the 2 and is not a 1, but instead is the classic (dreaded) short combo guard?

It's a hot topic (and in this case a loaded question).  I am still taking a little bit of a wait and see attitude while maintaining that the percentages are still against Bayless becoming a classic point guard.  As I said in a recent mailbag though, the Blazers might not need a classic point guard in the future.  And good short combo guards can still make a living in this league.  Even if he's not solidly in the rotation Bayless could become that Herm Gilliam player who scored 30 in a playoff game and saves a series for us.  Heck, if the guy can even defend point guards we'd be way ahead.

What could we even get if we packaged up some of this talent?

I'm going to hold off on this question until summer but I believe I have at least 6-7 reasonable moves that would help the team now and in the future.  I don't think Portland's hands are tied by any means.  Have patience for a couple months and see if you aren't excited.

Will we ever have a player who can, night in and night out, establish himself on the block with a back-to-the-basket game and get us some easy baskets?

Yes, as soon as Oden gets a year under his belt.

Is this truly a lost season?

Lost?  No. 

I once had a friend who got cancer in his mouth.  As with any cancer, the treatment was not pleasant.  He described it this way:  "Everything goes on as normal, it's just that your ‘normal' is different.  Your old normal was planning for retirement and things you'd do next year.  Your new normal is prospering today, or maybe even in the next five minutes...whatever you can make.  Your old normal was sitting down to a great meal and enjoying it.  Since you can't taste food anymore your new normal is getting some nutrition and enjoying the people you're with."  There was more, but you get the idea.  I have been amazed how much his wisdom applies to a lot of situations in life including, in a homely and not-nearly-so-serious way, the one the Blazers are in.  The old normal was fighting for the division crown, getting into the second round or maybe the conference finals, establishing a firm rotation and making the final moves to ensure your franchise will dominate for years to come.  The new normal is getting healthy, winning enough games to make the playoffs, and getting even more player evaluation time in.  Given the number of wins we've seen and the fact that we probably will make the playoffs the season is far from lost.  It's just not quite what we hoped once upon a time.

Do the OKC Thunder have a more promising future than we do?

I don't think so.  There may be some epic battles coming down the pike though.

Where exactly do we go from here?

Denver first, then to Los Angeles, Dallas, or back to Denver for the first round of the playoffs.

You stated in a recent post that the Blazers were 99.99% likely to lose in the first round of the playoffs.  Defend yourself, knave and rapscallion!

OK, I made up that last part.  It did seem to summarize a couple of people's thoughts though.

You have to remember that the playoffs are a different animal altogether.  It's a specific, focused environment to which the regular season has some, but not exact, correlation.

Obviously the Blazers are going to be facing a superior team record-wise.  It's likely Portland will find itself in the 7th or 8th position looking at a matchup with Denver, Dallas, or the L*kers.  All of those teams have been firing on all cylinders all year, at least when compared to the Blazers.  None of those teams will show up with major gaps in the lineup as the Blazers will.  All of them will have home court advantage.  All of them are stocked with veterans who have been preparing for the post-season all year, not struggling to get into it.

But it goes deeper than that.  It's possible to steal wins during the regular season based on the schedule alone.  You catch a team unprepared, taking you for granted.  You're just 1 of 82 games.  In the playoffs there are no other teams to worry about.  These stacked, talented, motivated, accomplished, veteran teams are sitting around all week with nothing to focus on but you and no other agenda on their calendar except beating you into an involuntary vacation.

Even in Portland's best wins you can easily identify three or four areas of constant weakness:  lack of points in the paint, shoddy interior defense, shaky rebounding, inability to fast break...there are probably more.  We get away with it now because not every team is good enough to exploit those weaknesses and not every team prepares for them well enough.  Playoff opponents are going to exploit the heck out of all of these shortcomings.  There will be nowhere to hide.

People argue that Nicolas Batum is coming into his own or we have Marcus Camby now or the team is going to gel.  All of those may be true but they don't change the fundamental make-up of the team.  If the ship's got holes in the side you can soup up the engine and fine-tune the rudder all you want...it's still got holes and will have a hard time sailing.  This team has holes.  They're not going to shoot fewer jumpers.  They're not going to develop into a fast-break, easy-bucket team.  They're not going to defend the lane like they would have with a full complement of centers.

If Oden and Przybilla had been back for a month already the outlook would be different.  If the Blazers could climb up into a 4th or 3rd seed the outlook would be different.  If everyone on the team except the Geezer Squad had five more years experience the outlook would be different.  Heck, if we still played 5-game first-round series (like we should) the outlook would be different.  None of these things is going to happen.

Speaking of multi-game series, your measure of success in the regular season is just one win.  If you beat the L*kers you've done your job and get to celebrate.  It's not like they can come back tomorrow and take the win away.  That's exactly what happens in the playoffs.  1 win means nothing.  You have to get 4 or you lose. 

The great hope, I suppose, would be to draw an easier matchup even from a low seed.  But "easier" here is relative.  I would say the L*kers and Denver will automatically crush us.  A win or two I could see but I would give Portland no chance to win 4 of 7.  The heart wants to say there's more opportunity against Dallas.  I'm not sure that's real either.  There's also a chance that Utah could sneak in there.  If we had Oden back I'd love that matchup.  But if you look at what the Jazz have done to us this year and you look at the acumen with which they prepare for opponents, is that really a lower hurdle to jump?  There's just no way out of the box here, at least not any that wouldn't require a miracle set-up.  And if we're hoping for a miracle why don't we just hope to win a series outright no matter who we play?

It's the great question of the last few years:  Stats or Eyes?

Easy...both.

But you also have to understand that both suffer from the same weakness:  for better or worse you need a human being to interpret the data and whenever humans enter the picture there will be bias.  The statistical revolution was (and is) supposed to correct the annoying habit of observers to credit favored players or attributes above others.  But even though numbers provide a level playing field the choice of where that field is located and how much territory it covers still lies in human hands.  Numbers are not neutral.  Somebody chose what to quantify, how to quantify it, and most importantly what conclusions that quantification leads to.  Functionally this ends up looking similar to somebody choosing which players to watch, how to watch them, and what conclusions you can draw by doing so.  We've all known folks who exalt their favorite players or attributes.  I bet you've also known folks who exalt their favorite statistical measuring stick (often the one they've invented).  You can compare more players using numerical data.  That doesn't always mean you've looked at them in a clearer, more useful way nor does it mean that you've seen them with less bias.

One of the more important questions is whether your observations and the stats in questions are actually leading to wins and/or the player being a good fit for the team.  One of the things people often do is cite a stat or observation that is probably fourth or fifth down the list of critical issues for said player or team.  The game is not always as simple as, "We need more rebounding so let's go get the player with the best rebounds-per-minute rate in the league!"  (And/or "Let's go get that huge, post-playing power forward!")

Neither knowledge of the game nor knowledge of the numbers proves sufficient in isolation.  The image of the grizzled scout who can look at a guy for two seconds and assess his career arc is a myth.  The best scouts will tell you it's a guessing game, a game in which you examine every scrap of data possible before you make your decision.  The corresponding image of the Mathlete who can type an equation into a computer and give you the key to a championship is also mythological.  The best numbers guys understand that their findings are part of a greater whole and, more importantly, understand the limits of any given data set and their own ability to interpret it into real-life situations.

Ideally your observations and the statistics should be within shouting distance of each other.  If they're severely at odds then you have an interesting case for further examination.  Perhaps your observations are wrong.  Perhaps the stat is an aberration or, more likely, doesn't correlate exactly to real life the way it should.  In either case that dichotomy begins the research and discussion.  It doesn't end them, as so many people try to make it do.  "This player's X-Stat is this!  End of story!"  "Well, I know what my eyes see!  End of story!"  It's likely you're both wrong, not necessarily in your data but in how you're trying to use it.

How much you rely on each is a matter of personal preference.  I would say that if you're a casual observer it's better to rely more on stats because they do tend to keep you on the straight and narrow, at least in the sense that they don't value that 360-tomahawk jam as highly (and probably erroneously) as your eyes and heart do.  I would guess that at the highest levels of decision-making most execs rely on their observation and/or gut for the final say even when they've taken in all of the statistical data.  The data leads them to the correct fork in the road and their experience tells them which path to take.  Nevertheless anyone who relies solely on their gut or solely on statistics in this day and age is likely to get out-performed by organizations that have both in their repertoire.

--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)

Comment 165 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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Great mailbag Dave!

I liked this one a lot.

Love,
Mortimer

#52

by Mortimer on Mar 5, 2010 1:56 AM PST reply actions  

Agreed

Best one yet, IMO.

Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!

by jscot on Mar 5, 2010 5:36 AM PST up reply actions  

does anyone have "Diener reservations?"

Sorry. I just came up with that.

Seeking whimsy

by Y5k on Mar 5, 2010 2:49 AM PST reply actions  

Didn't even have to think hard, I'll bet.

Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.

by timg56 on Mar 5, 2010 5:11 AM PST up reply actions  

I thought it was funny.

But then again I do tend to laugh at the simple things.

Being a Blazer fan is not exactly healthy.

by dpnim on Mar 5, 2010 9:36 AM PST up reply actions  

I was trying to come up with a "Deiner bell" Mel Turpin joke

but it just isn’t working

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 5, 2010 11:33 AM PST up reply actions  

My answer to that is NO!

Personally I’d like to see what either Jeff Van Gundy or Mike D’Antoni could do with our group of guys. I know they have very different coaching styles, but I think both could get more out of this group than Nate could…..I’m sure there are other coaches that would be better than Nate too, but those are the ones that come to my mind.

by adaoh on Mar 5, 2010 12:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I see him as a middle class Larry Brown

I don’t mean that as an insult, but I think Brown is one of the three best coaches along with Phil Jackson and Greg Popovich. The thing is, those coaches each work best with different types of rosters. Jackson can handle big egos better than anyone in NBA history, Pop knows how to build around one player, put people in their place and manage role players and Brown can develop players and get then to overachieve. Nate was perfect for the Baby Blazers, but I don’t think he can manage a championship team. I don’t think there’s much difference between the 5th and 25th best coaches in the league, it’s about whether they fit the team and if they have the players ears.

On that last note I’m worried about Nate. Dave mentioned how he doesn’t tell the to slow it down (sometimes he does when things get out of control, but seems like more often he wants them to run) but there’s also other things, like for the last two years we’ve heard him say they don’t do what he wants on pick n roll defense. Now we need someone to put in a system, make the players do what he wants and guide the team in general. I don’t think Nate is a horrible coach, but as the team has changed over the years they’ve gone from the perfect team for him to looking like a bad fit.

"Maybe we can't stroll to the music of the lute. We must march to the sound of drums." -Captain Kirk

by terryisntbald on Mar 5, 2010 2:07 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

disagree completey

thats all.

Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson

by Benson on Mar 5, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I agree complete with baldy

but think it’s even a little worse.

by Blazersaurus on Mar 5, 2010 4:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Recent history suggests...

the answer is probably not. The plethora of talent we had on Day 1 of training camp was mis-managed by Nate, by delaying Dre’s integration with the team, playing Blake to excess and and missing the opportunity to tell Brandon’ whose team it really is…

by Visionary2 on Mar 5, 2010 9:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Bayless defended TJ Ford very well in his last game, constantly pressuring his ball movement and preventing him from drives.

Granted, Ford is not a world beater, but he’s considered to be one of the quickest guards in the league. He had no chance against Bayless on either end of the court. The jury is still out. I don’t think he’ll ever be a pure classic point guard, but neither are some of the best “point guards” in the league. He’s a combo guard who should be able to defend point guards and occasionally hit the ball as a spot-up shooter in combination with his superior ability to draw fouls when driving to the rim to be of use in the Blazers’ system.

by Norsktroll on Mar 5, 2010 4:56 AM PST reply actions   2 recs

Amen

Why I still like Bayless despite my reservations about his PG/decision making skills:
1. Quick guards have always killed us, we need a guy to defend that position.
2. Penetration and drawing fouls is pretty much always a good thing.
3. His jump shot will come around. He’s only 22 and has spent his life picking on slower people by taking them to the rim. Now that he’s in the NBA he’ll be forced to develop that jumper, and it will come along (I think we’ve already seen this).
4. His decision making will improve, see above note.

SPOOOOOOOOOON!!!

by CaptHustle on Mar 5, 2010 8:06 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree.

That was one of the better defensive efforts out of Bayless this year. The guy has some quick feet no doubt.

by Nick Van Excellent on Mar 5, 2010 8:07 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

And his foul rate is a third of last year

I remember you couldn’t pla the guy early in quarters for fear of putting the other team in the penalty.

by LaoTzu on Mar 5, 2010 8:54 AM PST up reply actions  

ditto

he was frustrating TJ Ford (which isn’t that hard to do) Bayless has the best latteral foot movement I’ve seen from a Blazer PG since the days of Greg Anthony and Robert Pack

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 5, 2010 11:45 AM PST up reply actions  

I still believe Bayless is our PG of the future

he has improved considerably from last year, and he is still just a sophomore. Next year he and Andre can platoon, and then when Andre (likely) leaves after next year Bayless can take the reigns.

by GMan83201 on Mar 5, 2010 9:10 AM PST up reply actions  

I still think people are getting too hung up on the whole PG/SG issue

I like the idea of a backcourt full of combo guards: Roy, Rudy, Bayless. As mentioned by others above, Bayless has the best ability of anyone on our team to move his feet and not get beat by quick point guards, and like some others have mentioned, I too think he will improve his outside shooting. Plus, some people rag on him for getting too many fouls. I agree that sometimes he picks up some dumb ones, but he usually plays opposing point guards very physically, and I like that.

Next, obviously Roy is very intelligent on the offensive end and generally knows when to give up the ball when the defense collapses on him. Therefore, I think he can function as the point at times as well (at least on the offensive end).

Lastly, I don’t think Rudy gets enough credit for the skills he brings to the table. I think he is probably the most clever passer we have, and I’d rank his passing ability right up there with Miller’s overall. Plus, I think if he is given consistent minutes he will become that deadly three point threat once again, and this will work well when playing next to Roy. Also, while Rudy gets a lot of flack for his defense, he’s one of those gambling defenders, so once we shore up the middle of our defense with a shot blocker (hopefully Oden), I think this will leave Rudy to do what he does best on defense…go for steals.

That’s why my point guard of the future would be a combination of those three guys

by adaoh on Mar 5, 2010 12:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Rudy is a pretty flashy passer

But I’d put Miller way ahead of him and Roy ahead but close in creating good looks for teammates in good position

by momomoses7 on Mar 5, 2010 12:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I like this, but don't forget Batum can dribble/pass as well

Bayless and Rudy have different styles, but both are good in situations. This is why I like the idea of having both of them, and not get caught up in ‘starter/not-starter’ confusion. Against teams with quicker points Bayless would obviously get more floor time and if we needed to spread the floor with Rudy’s three point ability he would get more time. Rudy has more play creation abilities (Bayless really just profits from creating confusion around him) but lacks the ability to get right to the rim (La Bamba is just not close enough sometimes…) or draw consistent fouls.

It would be nice of course if we found a player who brought what both these players do, but if he’s out there I am sure management has done what they can to get them. In any case sometimes the NBA is about having players specialize in certain areas (Rudy:3point shooting, play creation… Bayless:Driving/drawing fouls, defense…) so that Nate knows what role to put them in as. We have a very proficient group right now in that almost all positions can put it on the floor and make good passes (puts us above a lot of teams) so it doesn’t seem like having a less traditional point guard role is the end of the world. As long as we have defense covered that is.

by Sir.Ludo on Mar 5, 2010 5:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I agree

I think Batum is key in combination with guys like Rudy, Bayless, and Roy since he can defend most anyone at the 1-3 or even 1-4 positions. And yes, like you say, he can also dribble and seems to make good decisions when he has the ball in his hands. That’s why I think those four guys can all share the traditional point guard duties.

by adaoh on Mar 5, 2010 5:49 PM PST up reply actions  

1,2,3... POINT!

That’s the ticket, we don’t need “one” point guard, we just need one per play! I say if any 1, 2, or 3 on this team gets the ball off the D, start the break… hopefully most of the time we’ll score before the other D gets set…

by Visionary2 on Mar 5, 2010 9:43 PM PST up reply actions  

That was Bill Walton's style

He didn’nt care if it was Gross, Hollins, or Twriziek (sp) that got the outlet. They could all deliver. That is why we won the championship and that is why if stats were taken then they would have the record in fast points scored per game.

hg

by BBK on Mar 6, 2010 6:52 AM PST up reply actions  

When pondering possible roster moves over the summer ....

…. I tend to run into the question of what position(s) on the team need strengthening.

Do we need a center when we have Oden & Pryzbilla, and even Camby if we want to keep him?

Power forward? You might argue we could use someone to play behind LA, but isn’t Dante getting most of his minutes at the 4 and Pendergraph looks like a nice player to have as a backup PF/C.

At Small forward we have two guys that are starting quality. That might be reason to trade one of them, but it certainly doesn’t support a need to trade for another SF.

With a 3-time allstar at SG that’s certainly not a position of need. And Portland isn’t exactly in need of a backup when Rudy, Bayless and Martell can all handle those duties.

Which brings us to the PG. Andre Miller fills the spot pretty well in my opinion, but I doubt anyone here thinks he will be around after his 3 year deal expires. I believe it is also a fairly common opinion that Bayless has not yet confirmed as fact he’s a long term starting PG.

So here we are back to the same old story of Portland needing a starting PG and a backup PF. And the last one is questionable, in my opinion. For me this really limits what sort of trade action can go down. There just isn’t that many quality PG’s out there that are a) the right age ; b) the right fit and c) likely to be available. Dave listed possible candidates earlier in the week. And even though I never caught the Devin Harris love bug, he’s probably the only guy on Dave’s list that might bring signficant and immediate improvement. So where we are is having one team to trade with. Put in that perspective, I just can’t get worked up over the need for Pritchard to make a trade. Maybe KP works his magic. BUt if he doesn’t, I’m ok with letting things play out with our current roster.

Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.

by timg56 on Mar 5, 2010 5:46 AM PST reply actions  

draft another young PG to develop?

Gee, why didn’t KP think of that?

Mills
Bayless
Koponen
Green
Sergio

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 5, 2010 3:54 PM PST up reply actions  

and pre KP.....

Jack
Telfair

I’ve deceided not even to pay attention to them anymore, until they are past their rookie year and still a Blazer ;)

Til the wheels fall off.... Marcus Camby

Go Blazers !!

by FrenchieFan on Mar 5, 2010 4:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Bayless' chances for success look extremely good when compared to other young PGs
Which brings us to the PG. Andre Miller fills the spot pretty well in my opinion, but I doubt anyone here thinks he will be around after his 3 year deal expires. I believe it is also a fairly common opinion that Bayless has not yet confirmed as fact he’s a long term starting PG.

1) I agree that starting PG is the most significant long term need on our roster. I don’t think it is legitimately debatable.

2) I agree that Andre fills the spot pretty well. He is a decent scorer and a savvy passer. Of course, it would be nice if he was a better spot-up shooter and a better defender, but I think the team is learning to compensate for his limitations. He works for now.

3) Bayless is the real question. I agree that he has not yet confirmed that he will be a long term starting PG. I think there are legitimate reasons why people have doubts. Bayless is trying to make a difficult transition from dominant scorer to scoring PG. He did not play PG in his lone year in college and he has spent nearly half his time since arriving either at SG or in three guard lineups where he has taken a back seat to another PG. Bayless is very green. Green PGs make mistakes. Many fans who have doubted Bayless from early on seem to fixate on his mistakes as confirmation that he will “never be a PG.”

It has been something of a “chicken and egg” problem. Bayless is playing for a coach who is notoriously intolerant of PG mistakes at both ends of the floor. Bayless has played behind three different PGs (Blake, Sergio, Miller) all of whom were more experienced. Bayless couldn’t get PG minutes without more experience, and couldn’t get more experience without PG minutes.

It has only been in the past two and a half weeks since the trade that Bayless has been able to actually count on consistent minutes as the teams quarterback. Even now, Nate has experimented with Rudy, Roy, and Batum in ways that suggest he is not yet completely comfortable trusting Bayless to actually run the team.

Having said all this, I think there are significant reasons for optimism that Bayless can make the transition successfully. I have laid out the basic statistical case repeatedly:

-Bayless ranks 24 in PER among all PGs at 15.8
-20 of the 23 ahead of him are starters
-only 4 of the more than 25 PGs drafted in the last three years are ahead of him Evans, Rose Westbrook and Lawson. Bayless is within .09 of Collison.
-Bayless is playing the fewest minutes of any of the 30 PGs with a PER above 15.0

Bayless has scored and scored efficiently. His PER 36 Minute scoring and TS% are slightly better than what Brandon Roy achieved in his second year as a four year college player:

Roy 2007-08: Pts per 36 18.3; TS% .531
Bayless 2009-10: Pts per 36 18.4; TS% .539

Roy received his first All-Star berth based on those numbers. Bayless is still trying to get off Nate’s bench.

Scoring and efficiency should not be an issue. Bayless needs to work on his outside shot, but that is likely to come. He is already All-Star level at drawing fouls at 7.5 FTA per 36 minutes. The only guard who has exceeded that stat in the last twenty years among first and second year guards is Kobe Bryant.

The real question with Bayless is whether or not he is going to be an effective distributor. Bayless Assist Ratio is near the bottom of the top 30 PGs at 19.1. However, if you look closely, it becomes clear that a lot of young scoring PGs and even a number of established stars have Assist Ratios that are only slightly ahead of Bayless. In fact nearly half of the PGs ahead of Bayless in PER, and almost all the young PGs, have Assist Ratios below 23%:

Billups, L Williams, G Arenas, T Evans, N Robinson, D Rose, L Ridnour, T Parker, A Brooks, M Williams, and R Stuckey.

For example, compare Bayless’ Per 36 Minute stats and Advanced Stats to Derrick Rose, last years #1 pick and ROY:

Rose: Points 20.3, Assists 5.6, TOs 2.8, Assist Ratio 20.1, TS% .520

Bayless: Points 18.4, Assists 4.6, TOs 2.3, Assist Ratio 19.1, TS% .539

Is anyone asking if Derrick Rose is a PG? I think the numbers speak for themselves.

I could go on and on with comparisons. Suffice it to say that Bayless’ second season compares favorably with most of the top PGs of the past twenty years. His assist numbers need to come up a little bit, but he is very close on almost every other metric, and his ability to get to the line is almost unmatched.

At some point, people need to set aside their doubts and just let the young man develop. He shows almost every sign of becoming a successful PG. It isn’t a sure deal, but the odds look extremely good.

by upper left corner on Mar 5, 2010 9:35 AM PST up reply actions   4 recs

hmm
starting PG is the most significant long term need on our roster. I don’t think it is legitimately debatable.

Credit to superfly05 for posting this a couple of days ago:

I’m not in agreement with the “need a different point guard” argument

Lets just take a quick look at who the point guard on the last several champions:

2009 Lakers – Derek Fisher
2008 Celtics – Rajon Rondo
2007 Spurs – Tony Parker
2006 Heat – Jason Williams
2005 Spurs – Tony Parker
2004 Pistons – Chauncey Billups
2003 Spurs – Tony Parker
2002 Lakers – Derek Fisher
2001 Lakers – Derek Fisher
2000 Lakers – Derek Fisher
1999 Spurs – Antonio Daniels/Avery Johnson
1998 Bulls – Steve Kerr

and then a lot of Steve Kerr/BJ Armstrong and a Paxon. And Kenny Smith for a couple years.

Anyway, my point is that you can’t have a "star" at every position, and in my opinion we are currently better off at the PG spot than at least half of those champions above. Not to mention, most of the "star" point guards are in fact "stars" because they have the ball in their hands a lot and score a lot, which doesn’t really work with Roy’s style.

by Billy Hoyle on Mar 5, 2010 10:03 AM PST up reply actions  

Miller is 33

My point isn’t that we need a star. My point is that Miller is older and won’t be around forever. Our starters at every other position are 25 and under.

by upper left corner on Mar 5, 2010 10:13 AM PST up reply actions  

yeah

I’m not gonna lie I didn’t read your entire post before replying. So in my defense, I was only replying to your point #1. Now that I’ve read it, I agree that Bayless is looking better every day, and a wait and see approach should be just fine for at least another year before we need to take any major action at the position

by Billy Hoyle on Mar 5, 2010 10:44 AM PST up reply actions  

doesn't it seem kind of silly

that everyone thinks Phil and Tex Winter are the only coaches who can successfully implement the triangle offense at the NBA level? I know it’s not easy to teach, and certainly Kurt Rambis has the wrong cast of players to run it in Minnesota. But if KP and Paul Allen made up their minds that the triangle was “the” offense that was going to win a championship for Portland, you’d think they would have the resources to find a coaching staff that could come in and try to make it work. But it seems like they’ve “settled” on Nate and his risk-averse offensive system…which may or may not have enough complexity to win multiple playoff series

Great players make coaches look good, let’s get that straight. Rambis isn’t going to win with the ‘Wolves even if coaches that triangle out of his backside. But better talent can be beaten by teams with better systems, I believe we saw that with Adelman’s teams in ‘90-92. It takes more than talent, and even though I prefer a slow, methodical pace when it comes to the post season, I’m not ready to say that Nate McMillian has the coaching chops of a Greg Popovich. But (in the end) it will be up to Paul Allen to decide when/if a coaching change is required, and fortunately the Blazer’s owner is not always a patient man

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 5, 2010 6:47 PM PST up reply actions  

It's hard to quantify coaching.

I’m sure someone else could run the triangle, but we won’t really know who until they actually do it. It makes speculation kind of hard.

by Nick Van Excellent on Mar 5, 2010 7:29 PM PST up reply actions  

I must say......

…….that I find it interesting that the legion of Bayless doubters have not been willing to even comment on this post, or the one I made in Ben’s, “Is it Still Bayless Time” thread.

Are there no reactions to the comparisons I am making? Does anyone else find it interesting that Bayless’ numbers are almost as good as B Roy’s and D Rose’s?

At a minimum, I thought this would provoke some decent discussion. I am surprised by the deafening silence.

by upper left corner on Mar 5, 2010 10:34 AM PST up reply actions  

Discussion's over.

You won.

Disclaimer: everything I know about basketball I learned on Blazersedge.

by pualo on Mar 5, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions  

Conciseness is a hallmark of a good writer.

Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.

by timg56 on Mar 5, 2010 11:26 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes

Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!

by jscot on Mar 5, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions  

No

Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!

by jscot on Mar 5, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions  

So is decisiveness

Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!

by jscot on Mar 5, 2010 11:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Amen

This is definitely too much stat for me.

by Interested on Mar 5, 2010 3:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Either...

Nate is a complete idiot for not realizing Bayless’ amazing PG talent
or…
the numerous times the team has struggled horribly when Bayless was running the team indicate there’s more to PG play than having a stellar TS%.

by Tisbee on Mar 5, 2010 8:44 PM PST up reply actions   4 recs

Sounds reasonable to me.

I do feel that the distributor factor is a biggie that relates heavily to stye of play.
JBay has shown improvement, and I appreciate his obvious strengths I hope for the best from him. It could come down to what is the best we could get in deciding if Bayles is our future starting point guard, possibly effected by who we have as coach. Also relevant, could be his satisfaction working off the bench.

Re-sign Travis Outlaw !

by Berkeley on Mar 5, 2010 11:15 AM PST up reply actions  

I was thinking much the same thing.

I don’t believe in the concept of comparing players stats and then thinking you can plug one guy into another situation and get the same results.

That said, I do generally share upper’s belief that Jerryd Bayless has given plenty of indication that he has the makings of a very good NBA player. In my perfect world, Miller stays one more year, then the following season Bayless is the starter and Steve Blake returns as his backup. (Can’t help it. I love Blake. Winning a national championship for your alma mater can do that.)

Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.

by timg56 on Mar 5, 2010 11:31 AM PST up reply actions  

Thats the essence of "eyes" vs. "stats"

I don’t believe in the concept of comparing players stats and then thinking you can plug one guy into another situation and get the same results.

Eyes will give you the context for stats – and help figure out when stats do translate from one system to another…

by blacknoiseNW on Mar 6, 2010 12:22 AM PST up reply actions  

I still haven't figured out how to do block quotes.

But then I’m slow.

Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.

by timg56 on Mar 8, 2010 12:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't doubt your "numbers"

but I do doubt your comparison to Roy, and your ultimate conclusions. Roy earned those numbers as the starter and as the star of our team, where opposing defenses are focusing entirely on him. Same for Rose. Bayless gets about half of his numbers in garbage time, and the rest against second stringers. Not to mention whether or not TS% is the most important stat for your PG.

by superfly05 on Mar 5, 2010 12:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Which is one of the reasons I don't see that big of a need to acquire a new point guard.

Even if Jerryd has not “proven” he is the PG this team needs, he has shown that it is certaintly within the realm of his becoming so. Combine that with having a veteran like Miller and one has to ask themselves where the urgency is.

Another reason is the one Billy H highlights below – i.e. superfly’s point that we don’t need all-star players at every position. Unlike a lot of people here, I had no problem with Steve Blake as the starting PG and neither would I have one if it was Jarrett Jack. I believe either player could fill that spot and Portland would still have a dominate team.

Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.

by timg56 on Mar 5, 2010 11:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Just yesterday I came up with a brilliant scenario

That everyone other than me will probably think will be a huge flop. Since I’m of the opinion that next year is the year to really play Rudy and Bayless big minutes to see what they’ll give you (and since I’m not an Andre Miller fan), I want to see this starting lineup: Rudy, Roy, Batum, Aldridge, Oden…..then, since I want to trade Miller, and since it seems like Webster isn’t going to see that much playing time based on how things are going since our injured guys have started coming back….here’s a trade scenario that just might work (I think the money might match up, but I don’t know all the ins and outs of that stuff): Blazers trade Miller and Webster to Orlando for Gortat and Pietrus.

By trading away Miller, Rudy and Bayless would HAVE to get big minutes. Then, here’s my 2nd five: Bayless, Pietrus, Cunningham, Gortat, and….Camby, yes, Camby.

Here’s what I like about that 2nd five. Lots of versatility. Bayless can play 1 or 2. Pietrus can play 2 or 3 and is known as a decent defender and shooter (Plus then we could have the all French small forward spot w/ Pietrus backing up Batum), Cunningham can play mostly 4, but some 3, Gortat can play 4 or 5, and so can Camby. Plus, Camby, Gortat, and Cunningham are decent shot blockers….and yes, I know Camby is old, but I see him as playing a role similar to the way Mutombo played behind Yao and extended his career. Also, I like getting Gortat simply because he’s a serviceable big man that is rotting away playing behind Dwight Howard, and we still don’t know what Oden is going to give us, so it would be nice to have another decently young big guy who has showed promise when he gets some minutes.

Finally, to tie up loose ends, where does Pryzbilla fit in? We really don’t know what he’s going to give us after that fairly gruesome injury, and his contract will be up after next year anyway, so I say we trade him for whatever we can get at the trade deadline next year.

Anyway, how’s that for an elaborate scenario???…I think I need to take up knitting or something so I can find another way to fill my time.

by adaoh on Mar 5, 2010 1:00 PM PST up reply actions  

The case for/against Devin Harris
I never caught the Devin Harris love bug, he’s probably the only guy on Dave’s list that might bring signficant and immediate improvement

First of all, we have heard reports through local writers that KP feels Harris would be a good fit for the Blazers, and that Portland (allegedly) has tried to acquire Devin in the past. That’s a good starting point.

OTOH, in the past, concerns about Harris were that he wasn’t an ideal PG to play alongside of Roy, because Devin is a below-average 3-pt shooter. But in the last 9 months Portland has acquired Andre Miller and traded Steve Bake, so the thought of Harris needing to shoot 40% from three now appears to be less-important (after all, he would only have to shoot better from distance than Miller or Bayless…the bar has been lowered considerably)

Finally, there is the Rudy factor. If we take Jason Filippi’s comments (re: Paul Allen considering Fernandez to be “untradeable”) at face value, how else could KP put a deal together to acquire Harris without including Miller, Bayless, or both? Harris is going to be earning nearly 9 mil next year, and Andre’s 7.2 mil (EC) plus Jerryd’s 2.3 mil combined salaries would seem to add up nicely, in combination. If Batum and Rudy are truly “off the table” which other Blazer players would Vandeweghe covet? (Webster? Cunningham? Euros?) The Nets already have an all-star center and several young shooting guards.

Would a Harris-Roy-Rudy guard rotation be the ticket to a 2nd NBA championship banner hanging in the RG rafters? Or is “keeping Bayless” a better alternative to rolling the dice with a Harris deal? It’s not summertime yet, but the offseason speculation is already heating up

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 5, 2010 4:15 PM PST up reply actions  

good question

although I am a huge Bayless fan, I think that if we could get Devin Harris without giving up Rudy or Batum, I do think that a Harris-Roy-Rudy rotation would be pretty formidable. Personally though, I haven’t seen enough of Bayless yet to decide if his potential ceiling is below or above the level Devin Harris is currently at…obviously though, Harris is better than Bayless in the short term.

by adaoh on Mar 5, 2010 5:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Imo, Dante is next to be " off the table "

Lets hope Vandeweghe covets Martell .

Til the wheels fall off.... Marcus Camby

Go Blazers !!

by FrenchieFan on Mar 5, 2010 6:30 PM PST up reply actions  

Harris and Keyon Dooling
for
Andre Miller and Martell Webster + #1 pick

by GreatOden'sRaven on Mar 5, 2010 8:57 PM PST up reply actions  

I think I made that exact proposal in a fanpost, earlier this year

not sure about the #1 pick, I might’ve just proposed adding sweetener like the rights to one of the Euros, etc

Draft night should be interesting, but much depends on how Portland fares in the playoffs and what changes they think will need to be made to the roster (if any)

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 6, 2010 11:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Why got sign Camby for the back-up PF position?

First off it is his natural position, and Pryzbilla is no guarantee for the beginning of next season, plus it would be a pretty nice rotation. I don’t know what he wants to do, but Portland is a good platform for him to play in playoffs if thats how he wants to spend his last seasons.

by Sir.Ludo on Mar 5, 2010 6:10 PM PST up reply actions  

I really do like Camby over Pryzbilla

Even in spite of his age. I hope the Blazers are able to re-sign him as a backup

by adaoh on Mar 5, 2010 6:23 PM PST up reply actions  

after the trade, KP said

that the front office will try to keep players like Marcus who they’ve invested so much time in investigating and pursuing. The Blazers feel strongly that Camby fits their culture, and not just for the next 2 months

So I expect the Blazers will make a competitive offer to MC in July. They can go over the cap to sign him and still retain their MLE. But ultimately it will be up to Camby to decide where he wants to play

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 5, 2010 6:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I would trade Martell & Bayless in the draft for

a very young center prospect in the top 10. I would then sign a vet backup pg this summer, maybe a guy named Blake. I feel like we have a nice future PF spot with LMA and having Dante/Pendy as backups is fine with me. The Oden/Joel/Camby(maybe) center combo is more than acceptable for right now, but taking a flyer on a freshman big man this year is a low risk/high return move.

OMG I just jizzed in my France
OMGrandpa

by sug on Mar 5, 2010 6:32 AM PST reply actions  

How many minutes could you possibly give a 3rd/4th string Center?

And is it worth trading away Martell and Bayless for a 3rd/4th string center?

by GMan83201 on Mar 5, 2010 9:11 AM PST up reply actions  

D-League baby

baseball uses the minor leagues to stash their talented prospects and develop them while their current vets and stars run around in big boy pants. Then, when the time comes that your current starter/2nd/3rd string guy can’t play for whatever reason, you call up the prospect and Bam! real NBA minutes. Only in the meantime, the dude isn’t rotting away on the end of the bench. Which is why Diener is a perfect 15th roster spot as opposed to someone with budding, young talent.

by Billy Hoyle on Mar 5, 2010 10:07 AM PST up reply actions  

you’re going to trade away a serviceable small forward and good defender + your only backup guard who happens to be one of your brightest young prospects (to whom you’ve given a vote of confidence by trading away the vet who was taking his minutes) for a guy that you need so little you’re going to stick him in the D-League?

This team is past developing that kind of project. Additionally, the D-League doesn’t really help players develop all that much—they don’t play defense and the best player there is worse than Anthony Tolliver.

smh

by atomiccafe on Mar 5, 2010 10:11 AM PST up reply actions  

to clarify

I was responding to the minutes comment not really the proposed trade, which I don’t really agree with. I was just stating what we could do with a 4th string center.

Regarding the D-League it sounds like you are just re-quoting something you read in the past. Most of what you’re stating about the D-League is inaccurate, not that I’m an expert, but I read Ridiculous Upside, they are an SB Nation blog specifically focused on the D-League and they could really open your eyes to what’s going on there.

by Billy Hoyle on Mar 5, 2010 10:38 AM PST up reply actions  

I like the concept, except the NBA doesn't quite work that way.

I would really like to see Portland own it’s own D-League team and go even further by owning a team in Europe (preferably in a place like Trieste or Gorecia in Italy so I could apply for a job and spend time in Slovenia). But with the way things are set up right now, players in the D-League count against your 15 man roster, which really limits the ability for teams with an edge in identifying talent to stock up.

Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.

by timg56 on Mar 5, 2010 11:36 AM PST up reply actions  

The logic completely escapes me

Miller is 33. He isn’t going to be around forever, which means we need a long term starter at PG.

Personally, I think that is likely to be Bayless and don’t want to trade him at all, but even if you disagree, it makes absolutely no sense to trade Bayless unless you are getting a future starting PG in return.

This team now has a plethora of centers: Oden, Pryz, Camby (if resigned) and LMA, Pendergraph and Howard in emergencies.

Care to explain your reasoning?

by upper left corner on Mar 5, 2010 10:19 AM PST up reply actions  

Hear Hear!

[heavy sarcasm]No the entire purpose is to win a champion, therefore 29 teams every year have a lost season[/heavy sarcasm]

by BanDenjamin on Mar 5, 2010 7:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Well said!

A healthy dose of perspective…

by pdxrob on Mar 5, 2010 7:27 AM PST via mobile up reply actions  

rec

Re-sign Travis Outlaw !

by Berkeley on Mar 5, 2010 11:17 AM PST up reply actions  

In a way...

All of the injuries have added some intrigue to the season. Getting to see different rotations and players coming off of injuries creates story-lines that keep the season fresh. Right after the Pryzbilla injury I felt the season was a bit lost, but it has proved to be more interesting than I anticipated.

by PoliSam on Mar 5, 2010 11:48 AM PST up reply actions  

great point

I doubt we would have seen the Andre Miller 52 point game otherwise

by Billy Hoyle on Mar 5, 2010 11:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Paul Allen's not satisfied with the team "providing entertainment" so why should I be?

Kenny Vance has mentioned a couple of times that a source high-up in the Blazer’s organization has told him that the owner considered the team to be “a year behind” in their quest for a championship.

You can say what you want about Paul’s history with the team, but you can’t say that he’s ever been content with just rolling out a good product and selling out the RG luxury boxes and advertising spots. Allen expects the team to improve, and naturally the injuries this year have set the team further back. But that’s no excuse for the players and coaches to not make the most of the final 18 games and try like heck to get out of the first round.

We can see this philosophy in the Camby trade. You don’t make that deal unless you care about the final outcome of this “lost” season. (Greg Oden isn’t treating it that way, either, he’s busting his hump to make it back in April) The way I look at it, the young Blazer players have a chance to improve and gain experience until the final horn sounds, whenever that may be. Until then, they should give no slack and not worry about “what might have been”

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 5, 2010 4:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Precisely !!

Roybot: "Then he said "My girlfriend is from LA." to which I replied "Well then you need to find a new girlfriend."’

by 92wastheyear on Mar 5, 2010 8:51 PM PST up reply actions  

I am glad the players and coaches in the NBA do not think this way.

"OK Kids! Who wants a basketball? That's why I love my Chevy Silverado."

by RecordTOs on Mar 6, 2010 3:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Phoenix? Indiana? Golden State?
I don’t think it’s necessarily designed to be as slow as it is. How many times have you seen the coaching staff jump up and yell, “Stop that!” when the Blazers are on the run? Indeed most of the Blazer huddles we see on the national broadcasts consist of Nate begging the team to cut harder, move more, and pick up the pace. However if we’re going to run iso sets for Roy and Aldridge we also have to deal with the reality that both of those players take a long time to set up their shots. It’s made worse, of course, by the defense already knowing what we’re going to do. How do we speed up the game? It doesn’t start on the offensive end, but the defensive. Knowing that we were going to get the rebound off of every missed shot would go a long way towards speeding up the game, as some of our guys could legitimately leak out then. Greg Oden should help with that.

Teams can up the tempo without being good on defense or good on the boards. It’s not a matter of the coaching staff “begging the team to pick of the pace,” but rather teaching the team how to play faster. Teams that play at a faster pace do two things that the Blazers rarely do: (1) advance the ball with the pace to the wings and allow them to initiate the offense even if the defense is in front of them, (2) set a high pick and roll before the rest of the team is set. The Blazers only advance the ball along the wings if the wings have an obvious break away situation and they usually only run the high pick and roll after everyone has gotten to their spots. Most of the isolation plays that Nate runs are also slow by nature, as he likes to use screen action to draw away defenders to set them up in the post. The players can run into position faster, but those plays just aren’t quick hitters. It also does not appear that the Blazer have many “early-offense” sets, plays specifically designed to be executed on the run. Teams that play at a fast tempo typically rely on these a lot. Early offense was a huge part of my high school basketball program and this was something that was practiced, coached, and drilled into us.

A couple of examples:
http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/offense/fast-break-offense-carolina.html
http://coachingbetterbball.blogspot.com/2009/01/lakers-organized-early-offense.html

While it’s true that it’s easier to fast break off of a miss or a steal, it’s also true that the pace of the game can be coached.

by PoliSam on Mar 5, 2010 8:12 AM PST reply actions   3 recs

great point

but who wants to be coached to play like Indiana or Golden State? Or Phoenix for that matter? Take away Steve Nash and what do they really have?

by Billy Hoyle on Mar 5, 2010 10:09 AM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, but I think the original questions was.....

Is it a good strategy to up the pace? Dave avoided the question and said, “the pace will quicken with better defense and rebounding.” Do the Blazers have personal that would benefit from a quicker pace? A quicker pace does not necessarily mean a Golden State or Phoenix pace, since that is the opposite end of the spectrum (and they also play at a faster pace because teams score quickly against them).

I’m not sure of the answer. I think Batum could be a very effective wing in transition—a guy you can trust to take the pass up the wing and either score or make a smart pass. A see him open a lot now and the guards usually only pass to him if he’s got a break away. On the other hand, Brandon Roy shows no interest in running. Yes, he ran and played at a faster pace at UW, but that was years ago and 100s of NBA games ago. Roy has developed a style that he’s comfortable playing and I don’t know how well he’d take to the change. Besides, watching him try to spring with the bum hamstring is pretty painful.

by PoliSam on Mar 5, 2010 10:22 AM PST up reply actions  

The last uptempo team to win a championship was the Lakers

when Pat Riley was the coach. It’s been all about defense since then.

by superfly05 on Mar 5, 2010 5:38 PM PST up reply actions  

but, even with the Showtime L*kers

Magic’s mantra was “no rebounds, no rings” They packed the paint, switched everything and dared the other team to beat them from outside—then they ran it down your throat when you missed and left their sneaker prints on your backside

Buckwalter scouted and drafted players like Drexler and Kersey to deal with L*A’s superior speed and athleticism, and Portland finally got their revenge in ‘92. But the Blazers haven’t beaten L*A in a playoff series since that year

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 5, 2010 6:33 PM PST up reply actions  

yes the pace of the offense can be coached to speed up

but not if the coach is also “obsessed” (as Dre says) about turnovers.

Thats expecting perfection. I can understand perfection being taught but not to the point that a couple of turnovers ends in a time out or the individual being pulled out of the game.

I predict that Dre will do whatever he pleases when the playoffs come and it’s going to cause a whole lot of drama. Hopefully Nate will just let the players play.

Of course I can say that because I’m not the coach. To say in the playoffs " Just go out there and have fun , try to beat them by 30" would get a guy fired.
 
However we are not likely to make it past the first round so I say let’s go down with some style.

Four games average loss by 10 meh. Nobody will remember that in the future but that 30 to nothing run by the Blazers, Oh Yeah !

by meatwad3 on Mar 5, 2010 1:48 PM PST up reply actions  

It looks like Nate wants it both ways

He wants the team to run, but when there’s a mistake he either pulls someone or tells them to slow it down. If you’re going to run some turnovers are a part of that, just like how if you’re going to walk it up some possessions will end with contested long jumpers. A coach should look at his roster and weigh the pluses and minuses of picking up the tempo. We have one of the best fast break pgs in the league in Dre, lots of young athletes and we get killed inside when teams with good offenses (like Utah) run those sets in the half court. The two arguments against running are fear of turnovers and Roy doesn’t like to run. As for Roy, for years the Suns had Raja Bell at sg and Nash isn’t exactly a speed demon either. Fast breaking works best when your big guys beat the other team’s down the floor. Roy doesn’t have to run if we have LMA and Dante sprinting up the court.

"Maybe we can't stroll to the music of the lute. We must march to the sound of drums." -Captain Kirk

by terryisntbald on Mar 5, 2010 2:15 PM PST up reply actions  

exactly

as someone above commented, you play aggressive defense, then you push the ball up the floor to the sprinting big men like Aldridge and Cunningham, or to wings like Rudy and Batum. Those guys could get a lot more easy buckets for the Blazers than we currently get…then, if you toss it down the court and don’t get an easy basket, you can always pull it back out and run the offense. Fast break first, run the offense second. Trust me, it is possible to do both.

by adaoh on Mar 5, 2010 6:08 PM PST up reply actions  

What I don't get is...

Nate repeatedly is on the sidelines yelling ‘run, run’, and constantly talking about wanting to run in interviews and press conferences.. ‘we want to push it up’, ‘up the tempo’, ‘put the pressure on’… and yet we rarely if ever do it….

Which leads to believe that one of these statements has to be true:
a) Nate is lying to the media and fans, and really doesn’t want to run at all
b) Nate can’t teach his team how to run
c) The team doesn’t have enough talent to run.

And I know C) isn’t true…So why doesn’t Nate get any heat for either lying or being incompetent?

by Visionary2 on Mar 5, 2010 10:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Because

“talent” doesn’t necessarily equate to “running”? I am a pretty talented writer but I suck at Twitter.

—Dave

by Dave on Mar 6, 2010 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

But you could learn to compress your thoughts. You would lose some content, but gain speed.

Would we lose that much from running more? Typically running is implicitly associated with creating higher-percentage shots at the basket because nobody or not all defenders can come back and get set in time to prevent the shot. Of course when executed sloppy it could also increase turnovers somewhat, or result in blocked or poor shots. Steve Blake knew he wasn’t good at finishing around the rim and not the most gifted passer in transition, so he stopped the fast break maybe 8 times out of 10 and set up the normal half-court play “playing it safe”. But while not exactly stacked with classic slashers a la Smith/Iggy/Wallace/Maggette the team has a lot of multi-talented and fast players. Andre, Jerryd, Nicolas, Dante, Martell, Rudy, LaMarcus, and to some degree Roy all seem to potentially benefit from running more and could set up or finish plays in transition at a high rate. Oden could follow the break as a trailer after he got the rebound. I remember back in the 90s announcers regularly said leading the break was a major part of the job of a wing player instantly leaping out and running down the court once they got the board. Pretty much the only guy who is starting to do that now is Nic.

Who really prefers the slow style? Nate? Roy (who by all accounts did not play slow in high school and college)? Greg, Joel and Marcus are the top 3 this year in rebounding rate among qualified players. Any two of those returning healthy next season, and this team should be set up very well to start the fast break. Andre is second only to guys like Kidd in distributing a ball on the break with his QB-style passes. Jerryd is not as good in reading the play yet but can finish himself or draw fouls with open lanes like nobody’s business. If we don’t run quite a bit more next year, that should be a cause of concern.

by Norsktroll on Mar 6, 2010 3:34 PM PST up reply actions  

As you point out, our big guys’ uncanny ability to pull down defensive rebounds would really enable a quicker style by letting the wings and guards leak out as the ball goes toward the rim on the defensive end.

However, one of our greatest attributes last year was offensive rebounding—last year we led the league by pulling down an astounding 32.6% of our own shots, which is six percentage points higher than the league average. This advantage would largely be wiped out if Oden is used as a trailer in a fast break situation. He’d still get a few put back dunks, but his orebounding wouldn’t have near the influence it does in a generally half court game.

I’d tend to agree that the fast break is generally about creating high percentage shots. However, given that we were already a very effective offensive team that generated a ton of extra possessions through offensive rebounds, I think a relatively cautious approach to the fast break is justifiable.

by atomiccafe on Mar 6, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m seeing that our team has been playing either style rather effectively recently.

Official Adrian Wojnarowski Hater.

The Ardent Optimist.

by fajunga on Mar 6, 2010 4:43 PM PST up reply actions  

re: Conservative Defense
Heretofore we’ve been conservative on defense because we haven’t had that anchor in the middle to watch players’ backs.

Personally, I think this is a bit of a cop out. Who anchors OKC’s defense, which is anything but conservative? I’m not saying we have the individual defenders that OKC does at the 1 and 2 positions (we don’t), but the fact is ALL their players – good defenders or not, really get after it defensively. They run out aggressively, they overplay on the perimeter, they aggressively double and rotate and recover. They do all this with no anchor behind them. It’s a mind set.

Sometimes I wonder if our passive defensive plans don’t actually make us worse defensively than we are already. I wonder if the fact that we often sit back on defense – either in zone or man – doesn’t cause some amount of subconscious passivity to take hold, leaving us flat footed and slower to react to the offense.

"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare

by douglast on Mar 5, 2010 8:34 AM PST reply actions   1 recs

this team needs a defensive leader

Westbrook and Sefalosha’s intensity really rub off on the rest of the OKC team and force them to get stuck in. Martell and Batum both focus well on defense, but Martell’s confidence is so inconsistent that he pretty much just has to focus on his own game, and Nic is 20, and has played so few minutes with the other guys…

I do think we are starting to see some of that aggressive energy when Nic and Dante are on the floor together, although Dante’s not likely to get a ton of minutes long term, so other guys will have to step up and set that example along with Nic.

by atomiccafe on Mar 5, 2010 9:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Dante may end up losing a lot of minutes in the Playoffs.

Unfortunately.

Being a Blazer fan is not exactly healthy.

by dpnim on Mar 5, 2010 10:00 AM PST up reply actions  

so will Martell, almost certainly

It’ll probably be

Andre, LA, Roy and Camby at around 40 minutes/night
Batum at 30-35 minutes/night
Juwan backing up both LA and Camby at around 20 minutes/night
Rudy and Bayless around 25 mins/night backing up Roy, Miller and Batum
Martell getting just a few minutes depending on defensive matchups (Kobe and Carmelo, basically when Batum gets tired)

by atomiccafe on Mar 5, 2010 10:08 AM PST up reply actions  

Bayless....

I gotta agree with Capthustle up above. I was watching CIP’s rant on talking ball about Bayless the other night (i know), and what I think he and Dwight were missing is that in the NBA, you can teach and coach a player into becoming a better shooter, but its MUCH harder to teach a guy how to get past his man, into the lane, and finish at the rim as well as Jerryd can.

He is sooooo young, I gotta believe he will only get better and is actually a really good compliment to B Roy. He is not a PG, but thats ok with me.

Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson

by Benson on Mar 5, 2010 9:29 AM PST reply actions  

shooting can be learned ...

I was thinking the same thing. Look at the championship PGs that have learned to shoot while in the NBA … Fisher and Billups come to mind right away. There are others. You can teach the sort of athleticism and motor and Bayless has.

by 55wins on Mar 5, 2010 1:44 PM PST up reply actions  

How many minutes does a fourth-year star give up for an up-and-comer? Zero. They’re the ones grabbing the minutes

I was asked the question a few days ago “why is it OK to yank Bayless, Rudy etc out of the game when the offense stagnates, but Brandon and Andre are given more leeway when the starters are struggling”

Not-so-obvious answer…Roy, Miller, LMA are the only guys on the team who can force the opposing team to double team in the post or on the drive. Even if they’re having an “off” quarter, they’re still a threat to score and the defense will send help that leaves another player open on the weak side.

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 5, 2010 9:36 AM PST reply actions  

It’s fairly certain Durant would still be scoring in a Portland uniform. How much, how well alongside Roy and Aldridge, what you’d ever see of Nicolas Batum

I feel pretty confident saying the Durantula wouldn’t be scoring as much in Nate’s offense

And the team defense would be worse. Does KP even draft Batum if he already has KD? It’s not a given

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 5, 2010 10:21 AM PST reply actions  

Water under the bridge

The KD stuff is tiring.

If Oden stays healthy, he is going to be dominant. If not, oh well. The decision made sense, end of story.

I agree that we would likely have never had Nic if we had KD, and I love me some Nic.

by upper left corner on Mar 5, 2010 10:27 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Right, I wish we just didn't mention it at all

I love Nic as much as the next guy, but saying it’s good we didn’t get Durant because we wouldn’t have Batum is just a ridiculous argument.

And if Durant and Roy couldn’t play together, or we didn’t like Durant, we could have traded him for Robin Lopez or Al Horford. Or we could have traded Roy. It doesn’t matter. What’s done is done. There’s no need to speculate and get ourselves tied up in knots to try to make ourselves feel better right now.

I just wish we let it drop. Oden was a good pick at the time, and we’re nowhere near far enough along to evaluate KP’s roster building. I also firmly believe his track record should be viewed as a whole, instead of just picking at one decision. So let’s wait 5 years and then compare notes now.

No need for post-facto rationalizations about how we wouldn’t need another top-20 player.

by atomiccafe on Mar 5, 2010 10:32 AM PST up reply actions  

saying it’s good we didn’t get Durant because we wouldn’t have Batum is just a ridiculous argument.

That’s not my point. I said if KP already (hypothetically) had Durant on his roster he might very well have have chosen to not to pursue Batum in the ‘08 draft. Let’s say Seattle wins that ‘07 lottery and drafts Greg. Portland’s draft strategy over the past 2 years would have been radically different, KP would be more interested in acquiring a young center to back up Joel, and he would have had very little concern about acquiring a future starting SF, like Nic

I’m glad Portland has Oden and Frenchy, these are the kind of players who win championships. Unless Durant turns into the next MJ (and I don’t see the commitment on defense from Kevin) Portland will have the upper hand in future playoff series with OKC

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 5, 2010 4:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Will Martell Webster ever learn how to drive off the dribble?

I don’t think so, but I know people who disagree with me. I’m happy he’s learned to defend better.

Webster can drive when there’s a wide open path to the basket, but don’t ask him to make any “decisions” with the ball along the way. I’d make this same observation about Rudy, BTW. The least Rudy will make a pass after one dribble (usually lob to LMA off the LH curl) but this pass may not always be on the money. OTOH, when Martell drives he’s only focused on the rim. He’s good on the baseline wrap-around lay-in, but if a defender slides into his path there’s gonna be a turnover or a badly missed shot. (It would be nice if #23 could learn how to draw fouls in these situations…)

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 5, 2010 10:33 AM PST reply actions  

whoa

I feel like an old man with all these txtspeaks! anywho, Martell is what he is physically. I think that he’ll be a great SF in a few years of experience of gathering the mental tools. so his decision making will be a coveted asset in years to come. that is for other teams, because I see Batum as one of the smartest players on our team, easily the most cerebral defender, and just a couple years away from being the next great point-forward ala Scottie Pippen (yes, we beat this to death)

by sparks89 on Mar 5, 2010 10:39 AM PST up reply actions  

and where is Martel supposed to "gather the mental tools"?

Martel is never going to be a great SF because his shooting percentage is crap. As for learning the game better, I just don’t see it.

His grade will probably always be a big P

Potential

by ralphzillo on Mar 5, 2010 3:11 PM PST up reply actions  

in my mind

Webster is kind of like Travis Outlaw 2. A streaky shooter that shows flashes of brilliance, but that never really reaches the perceived potential that people see in him.

by adaoh on Mar 5, 2010 6:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Rudy

The least Rudy will make a pass after one dribble (usually lob to LMA off the LH curl) but this pass may not always be on the money.

This is right. Rudy will eat you alive if you play “in-between” defense, which is to say you softly turn toward him, but don’t really guard the screener. But if you either trap out and put pressure on him, or invite him to drive, his handle will let him down. That’s why you see him making nice passes against bad defensive teams, but he gets in real trouble against teams that actually know how to defend the pick and roll. He has decent vision and creativity, but he just needs to work on having a more secure handle in traffic if he wants more playmaking responsibility.

From Dave:
bq. Rudy needs the NBA 20 years ago. Actually many folks would like to see the NBA of 20 years ago.

Which is to say he needs an NBA where teams don’t really try or scheme on defense.

by atomiccafe on Mar 5, 2010 10:44 AM PST up reply actions  

No

An NBA where teams move and pass and rarely run ISOs, and where refs don’t let you mug someone inside.

Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!

by jscot on Mar 5, 2010 12:04 PM PST up reply actions  

I thought the NBA of 20 years ago

was notorious for muggings every time you went inside (20 years ago has us at the 1990 season: Bad Boys, Riley’s Knicks, etc)

by momomoses7 on Mar 5, 2010 12:17 PM PST up reply actions  

i think he really means the nba of 30 years ago.

scores of 130 to 125.
outlet passes thrown to half court.

20 years ago was miserable ball to watch.
knicks v heat 60 to 58.

that’s the main reason i would never want van gundy anywhere near this team.

dinasour type of guys choir boys

by mittsabishy on Mar 5, 2010 12:46 PM PST up reply actions  

the NBA of the 1980s, running into the EARLY 90s in most places outside of Detroit and New York

"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare

by douglast on Mar 5, 2010 1:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, you're right

Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!

by jscot on Mar 6, 2010 8:57 AM PST up reply actions  

jscot is time traveling again....

The NBA of 20 years ago had teams moving and passing and rarely running ISO’s… but you could definitely mug inside, especially in the playoffs, the way it ought to be…

This is the era when refs don’t let you mug anyone inside (at least without giving up two frees and the ball for a level 2)

by Visionary2 on Mar 5, 2010 10:58 PM PST up reply actions  

wrong mugging

it took place outside – where you could handcheck

by blacknoiseNW on Mar 6, 2010 12:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Rudy needs the NBA 20 years ago

More like 25+ years ago. If Rudy was Jim Paxson running around in Jack Ramsay’s offense of the early-mid ’80s, he would have been an all-star SG just like Jimmy was

But of course the best (20 year-old) comparison with Fernandez is Petrovic. Rudy would have struggled to find consistent PT behind Porter/Drexler, just like Drazen did

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 5, 2010 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I guess I'm really immature

…‘finger in the dike’ got to me.
now that we’re past that, I think that Bayless and Martell should be traded in the offseason for a good vet combo guard or a defensive anchor at the 3 or 4 to help Dante backup LA and Batum. Martell deserves the chance to start/get more minutes somewhere else (Miami, Boston, Toronto come to mind) and Bayless won’t fit our system. honestly, you could switch Bayless out for Rudy and give HIM the starting position that he needs elsewhere.

by sparks89 on Mar 5, 2010 10:35 AM PST reply actions  

Regarding Bayless...

It’s easy to sympathize with Jerryd’s frustration at not having a more clearly-defined and prominent role with the team. He works very hard, and has proven in flashes that he can produce at the pro level.

However…

From a fan’s perspective, it confuses me how there are so many suggestions that we should give up on or trade Bayless. Time and again, I see complaints that he’s not the PG of the future, or that we should trade him while his value is high, or whatever… (though not too much so far in this thread)

This is his second year in the league, and he didn’t show enough consistency to earn the right to play over Blake/Roy/Rudy last year—Sergio might be a bit more debatable, but Bayless was inconsistent when Blake was out. This year, there were obvious calls for him to play over a struggling Steve Blake early in the year, but he eventually got his chance, and what happened? Inconsistency.

He had opportunities this year when Brandon and Blake went down, and what happened?

Probably the most characteristic trait of a developing player is inconsistency—you never know what to expect from him on any given night.

Why are fans so afraid of player development? He’s shown flashes of briliance, but has been inconsistent overall. Still, he is becoming more dependable the more he plays—but up to this point, he hasn’t really earned the minutes that could have expedited his development that much more during the season than it already has.

It’s clear that Blazer management thinks very highly both of Bayless’s talent level and his potential. Otherwise why would Steve Blake have been traded? With his cap-friendly contract and tireless work ethic, Rex is the kind of player who is developing just fine, and for a second year player who is playing on playoff-caliber teams, it’s foolish to expect that full development will happen overnight.

So, let’s say we trade Rudy and Bayless for a draft pick. I’d be willing to bet that the player we got in return would neither dominate the summer leagues or set a rookie record for 3s—or a relative equivalent. That’s not to overstate the value of those feats—they’re practically worthless. But really, if we did trade Bayless for a draft pick, guess what we’d get in return? Potential.

Bayless already has plenty of that.

In the next few seasons, we don’t need potential as much as we need players who have already had the opportunity to develop. Giving up on Bayless at this point would be a big mistake, IMO.

by HeathBlizzard on Mar 5, 2010 11:26 AM PST reply actions  

It would be stupid to trade Bayless for "potential"

It might possibly make sense to trade him as part of a deal for an established, top quality PG who is not as old as Andre.

Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!

by jscot on Mar 5, 2010 12:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Same weaknesses as who?

Andre or Jerryd?

I don’t know which PGs are available, and neither does anyone else, really. As far as I’m concerned, Bayless is the PG of the future unless we get an opportunity for a very high quality PG, and then I’m happy to pull the trigger. But I don’t see any point in trading him for a draft pick or a “potential” player.

Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!

by jscot on Mar 6, 2010 9:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Why are fans so afraid of player development?

We weren’t, from 2005 – 2007

It’s not Jerryd’s fault that he came along after players like Roy and LMA had already established the team as contenders, and that now expectations are high and the opportunites for on the job training are fewer. It’s just the hand he’s been dealt. If Blazer management thought he could “handle it” heading into this season, they wouldn’t have signed Andre last July

But Bayless has made strides this year, thanks to injuries that gave him the opportunity. (So much so that KP decided he could part with Blake, to fill another roster need)

But “development time” is over, until after the season. That’s why you won’t see much of Mills or Pendergraph, unless the game is out of reach. It’s up to Rex and Rudy to show Nate/KP what they’ve learned, in pressure situations. Because the “evaluation period” never ends

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 5, 2010 5:10 PM PST up reply actions  

How many PGs in the NBA are better than Andre Miller?

Not many.

I think the search for the perfect PG isn’t worth it. Our core of the future is pretty set with Roy, Batum, Aldridge, and Oden at the 2,3,4,5 postions. Bayless has a chance to get that PG slot if he plays like it. I don’t think it’s realistic to expect that we’ll be able to set up a perfectly balanced starting 5 like we had with the Porter/Drexler/Kersey/Williams/Duckworth teams. Other than Boston, I can’t name a single team in the league this season that has that sort of ‘perfect’ starting 5, nor can I name a recent team—again other than Boston—who has won a title with that sort of starting 5.

by HeathBlizzard on Mar 5, 2010 12:56 PM PST reply actions  

When Terry Porter 1st came into the league

he had never played point guard. In H.S. he was a center in college he was a forward at Wisconsin-stevens pt. I actually remember alot of the same questions about T.P. as I hear now about J.B. If Bayless can be to Roy what Porter was to Drexler… We have a winner!

Batumshakalaka!

by We-B-Dunkin on Mar 5, 2010 1:18 PM PST up reply actions  

I period every now and then would be nice.

Makes it easier for old guys like me to understand it the first time through.

Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.

by timg56 on Mar 5, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

There was a wince when I saw it posted with the wrong vowel at the start of the sentence.

btw – it wasn’t meant as criticism. It was just a bit difficult to read. I had to go over it about 3 times

Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.

by timg56 on Mar 8, 2010 12:20 PM PST up reply actions  

In all probability

Jerryd is going to be that PG that gives us a balanced starting 5. His deep shooting will come, it is better this year than last. His defense is improving all the time. His decision making is far better than last year.

My point was that you don’t trade him for “potential”, but if a blockbuster deal comes along that gets you a PG as good as or better than Andre, but younger, you have to be willing to pull the trigger even if it means trading Bayless. Otherwise, you are waiting on potential while Roy is in his prime.

Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!

by jscot on Mar 6, 2010 9:03 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree. Bayless needs time this year ( and next) to season himself a little at the actual PG position. He has been mostly playing SG since he came here, so it is difficult to make a proper analysis of his PG skills. The next 18+ games, as I stated in another post, will be the real test for Bayless. He has to show he can run the team.

The short one says to the tall one, "If I were you, I'd be tall."
The tall one replies, "No, if you were me, I'd be short."

by prajna on Mar 5, 2010 1:25 PM PST reply actions  

I agree with you except

I think this year we’ll see Miller leaned on more down the stretch for his veteran presence, and that Bayless will start to play a bigger role next year, starting with possibly an even split with Miller in minutes with the potential for more

by Billy Hoyle on Mar 5, 2010 1:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I think you're right about this year

Miller is going to get most of the minutes going down the stretch, but I think that next year the only way Bayless will be assured more minutes is if we trade Miller away. Otherwise I see the same scenario as this year playing out next year in terms of how the point guard minutes are divvied up.

by adaoh on Mar 5, 2010 6:16 PM PST up reply actions  

He has been mostly playing SG since he came here, so it is difficult to make a proper analysis of his PG skills

That’s what Nate said in the recent BT Smith article on Jerryd (sidebar > ) and it’s why I’ve mentioned several times that Bayless and Roy have played so little together as a backcourt duo since Rex was drafted. (Nate always seemed to have Blake or Miller on the floor with them…)

When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!

by two4larue on Mar 5, 2010 5:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I meant as much. For whatever minutes he is involved at PG, he needs to force Nate to have to make a tough choice as to whether to keep in or take him out.

The short one says to the tall one, "If I were you, I'd be tall."
The tall one replies, "No, if you were me, I'd be short."

by prajna on Mar 5, 2010 1:53 PM PST reply actions  

whoops!! ^ “keep him in”

The short one says to the tall one, "If I were you, I'd be tall."
The tall one replies, "No, if you were me, I'd be short."

by prajna on Mar 5, 2010 1:54 PM PST reply actions  

Like this?

Wearing the black band for Jarrett Jack, Ime Udoka, Fred Jones, Sergio Rodriguez, Channing Frye, Luke Schenscher, Shavlik Randolph, James Jones, Josh McRoberts, Steven Hill, Jarron Collins, Michael Ruffin, Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw. Sacrificed to the unmerciful god of progress.

Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?

by T Darkstar on Mar 6, 2010 6:51 AM PST up reply actions   3 recs

That’s pretty much how I would picture a Davebot.

by Norsktroll on Mar 6, 2010 3:38 PM PST up reply actions  

One of the best pictures I've seen anywhere Darkstar.

No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

I'm not sure Donald Sterling is a human being. He had to have been manufactured by someone, possibly David Stern, so that one team could solely just make profit for the NBA while doing nothing good for themselves. -- Aykis 16

by pookeyguru on Mar 6, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions  

Just a fan not a professional

He is probably a “pure PG” type guy given that he says at the end that he chose not to include Tyreke Evans, Rodney Stuckey or George Hill. My guess is that he thinks of Bayless in that category.

In general, most folks outside of Portland, and even a lot of fans from Portland, have no idea how good Bayless is because they only look at per game stats. It is only when you start looking at per minute stats that the real quality of Bayless’ play becomes apparent.

by upper left corner on Mar 5, 2010 6:55 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks Dave.

I feel much better now.

An offensive rebound in paragraph form. -Mr. Golliver

by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Mar 5, 2010 6:55 PM PST reply actions  

Wait up!

We can talk all day about which players fit better in this team but it all starts with the coach. Personally I don’t believe that Nate is going to be able to take us to the next level. Why? Because
1) The team has not improved from last season. I know we had some major injuries, its not a good enough excuse.
2) The slow pace that the players played at was probably important in their development as pros. But now we need to push it more. It does not seem like Nate is asking them to slow it down but its obvious that he isn’t screaming at them to run either.
3) The offense that we do run is not going to win us any Playoff series. Jumpshooting never got a team a Chamionship! Its all about points in the paint! Nate has failed miserably in this category.
4) The defense is supposed to be Nate’s forte. Well it sure does not seem like it. The most important category in order to determine a good defensive team from a bad one is opponent FG%. Nate has only managed to make us an average defensive team. Don’t mention losing Oden cause the Thunder don’t have even a half decent center and the are the 4th best defensive team in the NBA.

by VinnyB on Mar 6, 2010 4:22 AM PST reply actions  

Hilarious

to think that we should have improved despite the injuries. Your following points would have more credibility if you hadn’t blown it so badly with your first one.

Give Blake the MLE in 2010!
Farewell to #2 and #25, good luck to you!
#10 #52 -- #5 #7 & #88 are back!

by jscot on Mar 6, 2010 9:06 AM PST up reply actions  

I think this is Jeff Van Gundy looking for a new job.

Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.

by timg56 on Mar 8, 2010 12:21 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah....... right.

Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.

by timg56 on Mar 8, 2010 12:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I too have wanted Nate gone for a couple years now

just on the basis that, as you say, he is supposedly know for “defense” and yet our defense never improves. You’ve gotta believe that guys like Sloan, Popovich, Jeff Van Gundy, and others would have this team playing much better on the defensive end….If you can’t deliver what you are supposedly known for as a coach, then what good are you coaching?

P.S. I’ve also wanted him gone for his terrible rotations and substitution patterns

by adaoh on Mar 6, 2010 8:20 AM PST reply actions  

adaoh

That’s the second time I’ve heard you mention Jeff VanGundy. I have to ask, are you AK1984 ?

Batumshakalaka!

by We-B-Dunkin on Mar 6, 2010 3:22 PM PST up reply actions  

nope

I guess I just like saying the name Jeff Van Gundy….I’m trying the subliminal messaging approach to see if other people will start mentioning his name as well.

by adaoh on Mar 6, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I fail to see why people want to get rid of McMillan for Van Gundy.

Van Gundy is so much more inflexible than McMillan, one trait that he always gets slammed for. And McMillan has his players ears. Van Gundy seems to lose them quickly. He’s a great personality on TNT, but I don’t think I would want him as our coach.

Wearing the black band for Jarrett Jack, Ime Udoka, Fred Jones, Sergio Rodriguez, Channing Frye, Luke Schenscher, Shavlik Randolph, James Jones, Josh McRoberts, Steven Hill, Jarron Collins, Michael Ruffin, Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw. Sacrificed to the unmerciful god of progress.

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by T Darkstar on Mar 6, 2010 7:41 PM PST up reply actions  

I just think he could get more out of the group of guys we have

I agree that he is probably inflexible, but so are guys like Popovich and Sloan, and I’m pretty sure they could get more out of this team as well. Maybe Van Gundy isn’t the right guy, but neither is Nate. Plus, to respond to Van Gundy losing guys quickly, the fact that he lasted a number of season in both New York and Houston might seem to refute that….mostly though, while I have my gripes about McMillan, I really just think we’ve reached the point where we’re on the verge of plateauing under Nate’s leadership, and I think we need a change…obviously not just some schmo off the street, but a legitimate and proven winner, both in the regular season and in the playoffs…I better get off this topic now, I’m actually getting tired of myself saying “Van Gundy” over and over again….

by adaoh on Mar 6, 2010 10:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Nate

Nate is the perfect coach for Roy.
He’s a good coach for Aldrige.
He’s an average to poor coach for the rest of the roster.

BTW,JVG used to constantly scream for the Rockets to run,and it never happened. Running is something a team has to practice-where to make outlet pass,how to fill the lanes,how to look for the chance to break. There is limited practice time during the season-and not that much beforehand-so coaches who stress defense or a structured offense tend to spend the scarce time on their basics,not something like running the break.

Me,I think Nate’s biggest weakness is his mentally pigeon-holing a player. Remember early on this season where he was qouted as saying he knew his players. As in he knew what they are on the basketball court. The problem w/that is a player’s game may change in the off-season and/or during the course of the season and Nate seems to have a hard time accepting that change and adapting to it.

by Tisbee on Mar 6, 2010 9:03 AM PST reply actions  

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