Reflections on a Team Gone Wrong
by Dave on Mar 23, 2010 1:26 AM PDT
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So...the story that started with the firing of Tom Penn a few days ago has now turned into a conflagration, taking on a life of its own and consuming everything in its path. My original intention was to see how much of this I could let pass, focusing on other aspects of the team. But at this point that's like ignoring a raging forest fire rushing towards your idyllic home. This would not be the time to plant petunias. Heck, even getting a hose might not be enough. All you can do is check the wind and assess the damage.
Of all the things I'm sure of in this maelstrom, which turns out to be precious few, I am most certain of this: We are never going to learn the absolute truth of this situation. I'm not sure there is an absolute truth in this situation. In my experience when fractures develop between members of an organization it's seldom because one held the complete, true story and the others were mistaken. More often everybody holds a version of the truth which is legitimately consistent with, and complete in, itself. But though each self-contained truth is valid the various truths don't fold nicely together. Divergent goals and positions within a group can narrow foci enough that perspectives don't intersect. Communication and commitment overcome those gaps in healthy organizations but when those characteristics break down you end up with many people speaking truth who can't make those truths match. At that point a power struggle ensues to see which version of the truth will prevail. Anything inconsistent with the winning truth gets tossed out. Between the Penn firing and yesterday's press conference the Blazers might as well have put up a neon sign stating that's where they are at. Or maybe that's where they've been for a while and we simply haven't known it. Either way this team is at a crossroads.
Not knowing the exact "truth" of the situation--admitting there may not even be one to be known--it's difficult to forecast which fork of the road is the correct one to take from here. Despite (ostensibly) conveying truthful information and therefore (consistently) offering "learned" opinions on these matters, we media folks don't end up with better maps than anyone else. Eventually the media gets to as many of those truths as can be found, layering story upon story, perspective upon perspective. I imagine we'll hear from nearly everyone involved before the matter is settled. But reading a hundred stories doesn't bring us any closer to marrying those divergent truths together. All the stories do is help us understand how it fell apart and why the power struggle is happening now.
In the end the only people who can plot a course forward from here, productive or at least minimizing further damage, are the people involved. The responsibility lies heaviest on the people who are most likely to win the power struggle and thus have their truths prevail. In this case that means owner Paul Allen and the upper levels of his management staff, including the folks from Vulcan and his senior officers at Blazer Headquarters. And though I'm not able to recommend a specific truth to you among the various stories we've heard, I think the process through which these events have occurred does illuminate a truth of its own: We should be worried about the ability of the organization to find that course forward. They appear to have mangled this big time, acting in ways contrary to their own self-interest.
At no point am I going to argue that either Tom Penn deserved or Kevin Pritchard deserves to stay with the Blazers. This is one of those things that we'll never have as much knowledge of as people who are on the inside. I certainly have my own opinions but I don't think those opinions provide enough foundation to take the team to task. Maybe there are things we don't know about. Maybe some of the rumors we've heard are true. In fact let's just assume that Penn should have been let go and Pritchard, for whatever reason, deserves to be on thin ice. Even if that's 100% true, the organization has still blown this.
They blew it in the timing of Penn's dismissal. One might ask why firing a Vice President has stirred up a storm more befitting of a Head Coach or GM. The answer comes in the timing. Penn was dismissed with a dozen games left to go in the season with the team fighting for a post-season berth. Had the Blazers waited out the month and a (likely) brief playoff run they could have announced that they and Tom Penn were parting ways without much more than the raising of an eyebrow. Firing him during the season with so little time remaining before summer begs the question, "What happened???"
I've heard it suggested that Penn was released at this time to keep him from knowing too much about the Blazers' summer plans, especially the draft. This doesn't seem likely. Scouting and planning are ongoing year-round. Tom Penn is sitting at home right now with a pretty good idea of Portland's needs and their designs to address them. But if this truly were a concern he could have been re-assigned internally until such time as his release became official, simply keeping him out of draft meetings. It also appears that Kevin Pritchard is under evaluation. What protection do you get by releasing Penn early if you're holding on to KP himself and may part ways with him in the summer?
We've heard it suggested that Penn had professional and/or interpersonal conflicts with other members of management. We've heard it suggested that the organization had problems with his contract negotiations last summer. In both cases the justification for immediate dismissal seems lacking. If conflicts had been building for so long then why was he promoted in the first place? Why wasn't he let go during the last off-season? If you had lived with these problems for this long why was it impossible to live with them for another six weeks? What did he say or do that was so damaging that you couldn't swallow your pride and/or compensate within the culture for another 40 days?
The only scenario that makes sense is that Penn committed an offense so vile that it required immediate action by any standards. But if this were so, the message hasn't been strong enough from the team. Granted, for legal and other reasons they may not be able to come out and name the offense. But at the very least you'd have a defined, united front with Larry Miller, Kevin Pritchard, and perhaps Paul Allen himself coming out and saying, "This needed to happen even if we can't comment further on why." Instead we have a semi-forward Miller, a reluctant and remorseful Pritchard, and no word from Allen. If the offense were professional--say leaking information directly to another team--such a united proclamation would seem an easy matter. If the offense were personal--we won't even speculate on that--obviously the cloud of secrecy would need to be thicker. But then again by timing things this way you've all but guaranteed that the nature of the offense will be probed incessantly. If secrecy were the goal the off-season cloak would have been indispensible. Instead it was just cast aside. Even in the scenario which most justified the firing the handling of it has been strange.
The Blazers have delivered a public, immediate, strong, and incredibly suspicious-looking smack to one of their highest executives. This wasn't a knife in the back. This was a dramatic execution. Either they were forced to take a step so drastic by circumstance or they wanted to send a message that could be clearly read from a million miles away. Either way they had to know that questions would be asked about the circumstances and the message...questions that wouldn't die down until they were answered. They also had to know that the more they tried not to answer them the greater the suspicion and furor would become.
Which brings us to the second way the Blazers blew this situation big-time. One barely needs to listen to the audio of yesterday's press conference to understand what a disaster it was. All you need to do is look at Ben Golliver's iconic photo of Kevin Pritchard's face:
That image bears no resemblance to any Kevin Pritchard we've seen during his tenure here. Confidence, surety, hints of passion or promise...nothing remains there. Neither can such be found in his voice. This was a man dispirited, downtrodden, projecting for all to see that he was in an incredibly uncomfortable situation all but against his will. This wasn't the look or sound of angst, fear, or stress. This was the look and sound of hopelessness. Whatever that press conference was or was designed to be, it opened up and instantly confirmed the field of questioning relating to Pritchard.
How in the world do you do this? How in the world do you expect people not to notice? How in the world do you look into the eyes of your General Manager, even if you're at odds with that General Manager, and decide that it's beneficial to your organization to put this on public display?
The decision tree is pretty simple here. There's a possibility that Pritchard is no good for your organization and you're going to fire him. The same questions arise here as for Penn. Why not last year? Why not lay low until this summer? Why parade him in such a visible charade now, focusing everyone upon him, if his head is on the block? There's also a possibility that Pritchard is still your guy. One of the things we've heard suggested is that somewhere along the line the Blazers "neutered" Pritchard. If that wasn't true before we don't have to speculate anymore. They just did. Not only did you make your GM appear before the world and his colleagues looking and sounding like that, you made him assure everyone that he wants to be here (as opposed to you wanting him here). You made him choose between backing a friend and backing you in front of the world. You made him all but divorce himself from his own agent. You couldn't have brought him to heel more clearly had you used a leash and a stick. If you are planning on retaining him you have all but assured that he'll be viewed as nothing more than the mask on the true face of power, whatever that might be. (And how good is it for your organization and culture that nobody knows?)
Consider the personal view here. Kevin Pritchard may have deserved a lot of things but I have a hard time imagining he deserved that. Even if you think he did deserve it, he's not the one who came out looking bad. The team did. So even if you meant to humble him it backfired. You're either cutting down a good man or ineffectively chastising a bad one, neither of which makes you look good. You also have to consider the professional ramifications. How many people are going to scramble to come work for an organization that has just put on that kind of display? Would you be comfortable being Portland's next GM? If you're an experienced executive you'd worry about your level of autonomy and be looking over your shoulder wondering when you're going to be cut off at the knees. If you're a younger guy everyone is going to speculate you're simply the puppet the Blazers could find to do their bidding. I have no doubt that the Blazers would find a host of candidates for General Manager at their door, but the eventual winner would start on less than even ground because of this.
In what way is any of this conducive to bolstering, let alone repairing, the reputation of the team? Isn't that what the press conference was designed to do?
As with the firing, the manner in which the Blazers handled this press conference will lead to more and deeper questions instead of bringing the matter to a close. If there was nothing to hide they've all but ensured that people will continue to speculate on all the things that are being hidden. If there was something to hide they've guaranteed it'll be sniffed out. They did the opposite of their publicly stated intention.
The part that makes this most disturbing is that this is not the organization's first rodeo. They know what it means to deal with the media. They have enormous experience with damage control. This is not some rookie mistake, as whatever infractions Penn and Pritchard may or may not have committed can be described as. This is like your veteran player finally achieving All-Star status and then suddenly reverting to the troubling behavior that kept him down in his prime.
The most head-slapping, incredulity-evoking example came from Larry Miller when he said:
"I'm as surprised as you guys are that all this stuff came out of [the Penn firing]."
Let me offer a simple quote in response: What?!?
- You whack a guy publicly and dramatically
- You know his agent is a rabble-rouser
- You know his agent is your GM's agent
- You know your team has had turmoil internally that is both festering and heretofore unknown to the public (and thus bombshell material)
- You spent years in an adversarial and invasive relationship with the media
Yet you're surprised that anyone's bothering to ask about the huge fireworks display all of this is creating? If you dress up in green and crimson, walk into a circular ring in Mexico, and start waving a cape it probably shouldn't surprise you that some kind of cattle charge ensues. How could you not talk about all of this before you fired Tom Penn?
In order to be surprised by all of this you have to be woefully unaware of your environment: media, fans, even your own organization. And see, this is the part that makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. The Blazers are no stranger to being disconnected from their environment. It already brought the franchise and this city to the brink of divorce once. It certainly brought this franchise and the media to blows. We all assumed that we had a fresh start once the Jailblazer era was over. But the roots of that era didn't rest with the players or their actions. The deepest roots rested within the organization itself...precisely the kind of disconnect that this chain of events hearkens to. This has nothing to do with the fitness of Penn or Pritchard or anyone else. It has to do with a franchise where relationships that progress normally in other places--for good or ill--become this here. It has to do with this happening in multiple eras, across multiple executives, in multiple situations. It has to do with a franchise that cannot get out of its own way enough to let its followers love it.
That's the most critical point of all for me. Truth be told, as fan and media member both, I want exactly what the Blazers want. I want this story to go away. I want to concentrate on the team, its players, its playoff run. Stories like this that have no absolute truth to them, that just become an inferno of competing perspectives and rumors, that air people's lives on a public stage where few could withstand scrutiny...these kind of stories make me shudder. They're yucky. They ultimately end up unsatisfying, sick entertainment, a waste of time. But even though the Blazers say they want to turn attention back where it belongs, everything they've done--from letting the situation get this far in the first place to the firing to the explanation of the firing to the public cuffing of Pritchard--has done the opposite of what they say they've wanted. Once again they've tripped over their own feet. Once again they've put on display traits that we wish didn't exist, or at least that we didn't have shoved in our faces. Once again they've left people wondering whether they're just lacking competence or just don't care. It's not fair to them or any of us for that to be the central question of the day when the team has progressed this far on the court and had so much to show for it off the court.
A week ago the questions surrounding the team were simple: Will they make the playoffs? Will they succeed there? Those were beautiful, vibrant questions speaking of goodness among us no matter how they were answered, even to the negative. Now the lingering question is, "Will this organization ever learn?" There's no satisfying, unifying, cheer-worthy answer to that no matter which way you go. It's sad that the terms were redefined like that again, even if it's only for a while. In more ways that one it was a sorry exchange.
--Dave (blazersub@yahoo.com)
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A very well-thought out piece as always.
That being said, I hope they can continue to hold it together for the rest of the season and not let it affect their play.
RIP CITY - We're back!
well, this team seems to feed on adversity,
dinner is served.
"You be realistic," Oden said. "I’m going to stay happy. All right?"
if the Blazers were to hibernate
they just got enough food (adversity) for all of next winter…….and then some.
lets kick the lakers/nuggets/mavs @$$ in the 1st round to temporarily 4get about this when the playoffs start
This was a home run Dave!
I don’t always agree with what you have to say and I don’t always marvel at your writing, but this post was, “on the verge of greatness.” Thank you!
21+52=
+1
Great piece, Dave. Well said.
What a train wreck.
Q: Is Greg favoring his knee?
Frye: He favors dunking on your head, that's what he favors.
Sigh. Well written, and would have been enjoyable if not for the subject matter.
Sadly, I have no doubt that you’re correct, Dave.
What this leads me to think of, is that if this is essentially the same mistake or type of mistake that led to the JailBlazers, it’s a systematic problem. Which means that there’s a source, in the Blazers organization, that has liked caused in some way both issues, and that source has to have been a constant for the last 10+ years.
The only possible source I can think of, and I hope I’m wrong, is Paul Allen.
You can measure skill and talent with your eyes, but productivity is shown through statistics.
I assume most of the comments are going to be "well written, Dave"
But I have nothing else to add, so – Well written, Dave.
I blog at Ridiculous Upside. I know you'll love it.
by Scott Schroeder on Mar 23, 2010 1:38 AM PDT reply actions
Ugh
You know when Dave is shocked/worried that things are bad. You’re nearly always the voice of calming reason. Hearing you decry the organization’s handling of this situation is like hearing an air raid siren.
I agree that we’ll never fully know what’s happened and continues to happen within the Blazers organization. The scariest part of all of this is that I can’t see myself rooting for an organization that handles itself this way. I love all our players to death, but I wouldn’t be able to come back to the team for a LONG time if they ousted KP without a helluva good reason.
It’s been a fun ride PDX, but OKC isn’t THAT far away!
If ousting KP is the right thing
then I could live with that. But you can’t do it so incompetently in such a public fashion that makes everyone involved look bad. Making a bad basketball decision is one thing. Being completely tone deaf to everyone around you makes it hard to back you.
—Dave
The reason ...errr ... one of the reasons everyone (even New Yorkers) hate the Knicks.
Bad ownership tickles down like a cracked overhead sewer pipe.
i never thought I’d be saying that about Paul Allen and co. I’m not now. Let’s hope I never do.
No Evil Vulcans! Only the good, albeit emotionless, kind.
Great posting. You might want to change the last sentence:
In more ways that one it was a sorry exchange.
from that to than.
Par for the course
I don’t think this ownership/upper management team is capable of doing it any other way … and it all boils down to a long running and systemic inability to relate to people like normal human beings.
Perhaps the more money one manages,
the less connected one is to real people and real feelings?
According to Adam Smith.
This sort of thing is inevitable when you have a separation between ownership and management.
I would like to know the names of "The Vulcan"
There are talked about in such an ominous manner without any personal liability. When we talk about the decision makers, it is important for us, the audience, to know Who these people are, so that We can hold them accountable for the actions. Working behind such a guise, undoubtedly allows for them to make decisions, without a conscious care for the personal ramifications that would be otherwise attributed to an individual making decisions. For ex. If KP traded Roy for J.R. Smith, everyone would know it was he who made the decision (barring Allen pushing through such a trade) and thus he would justly shoulder the responsibility of such a decision, for better and for worse. As it stands now, “The Vulcan” can do as they please, while remaining an enigma. Who are “The Vulcan” and what constitutes them having such great authority (Outside of them also running the Seahawks). Why has Mr. Allen bestowed such an unwavering trust in their decision making (I remember a few years ago a long list of Mr. Allen’s personal investments and outside save a couple and Apple, they were all immense financial vortex’s living in the red). We need answers.
by BatumShakalaka88 on Mar 23, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Todd Liewicke (sp?) and Bert Kolde
there’s a couple of ’em…you may be able to google a few dozen more
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Also Paul's sister is President I believe
"Their length," he said. "Aldridge is a tough matchup for us. Roy's a very talented ball player, an All-Star player. Miller is just an incredibly savvy point guard with what he's able to do out there on the floor. You throw in their shooters who have size and are able to see over things. They understand where they are as a ball club." - Kurt Rambis
Dave in regards to timing I find it interesting no one mentions they canned Penn following the season ticket holder commitment deadline.
I could be wrong, and I’ve been meaning to post on this, but my work and family life has not allowed the time to put in. Literally the deadline for season ticket holders passed and the next day the bomb shell was dropped. I doubt we will ever know if that was done on purpose or not, but if it was; to me that would suggest Vulcan was very aware of a possible backlash by fans at a minimum. There are lots of other thoughts I would have if this was the case.
At a minimum with the lack of response and timing of action by Vulcan; i begin to understand how you could ever hire a tool like Patterson. I would also start to sympathise with Whittsit in that he was just functioning under a leadership that wanted results, to keep quiet, and follow the company line. A company that seems to live by the standard all employees can be replaced, and results are required no matter the oddest of circumstances. Paul has noted numerous times he feels this team is a year behind where he felt it should have been. You have to acknowledge the turn around the team has made in the communities eyes and in it’s competitive place in the NBA. To seriously consider replacing KP would show a management that is completely out of touch, and in danger of repeating a historical regression.
This timing relative to the renewal bothers me as well.
It seems, however, at the last game a renewal extension to 3/31 was announced. I’m wondering if this was part of the scheme as well, or simply a decision based on a lower-than-expected renewal rate and 2 more weeks to twist arms. (A photo with Bill Walton? A half court shot for $500? another bobblehead, maybe one that says, “It’s news to me!”)
Yeah
I realize it is a little self-centered, but I keep thinking, “I have more productive and enjoyable things to do with my time than follow this organization.” I have a stack of books that I have been meaning to read…
save them for May
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I've been thinking the same thing
This organization lost me after 2001, and I didn’t start following it again until 2006 when things were looking up. I didn’t mind the losing in 2006-2007, because the team had a clear goal, and an avenue to acheive that goal. If the team shoots itself in the foot once again, then I suppose you can wake me up when PA no longer owns the team.
I agree with you 100%
I made a promise to myself during the Knicks/Rockets Championship series that I would never watch a sporting event if I had something else to do with other people.
I end up missing at least a third of the Blazers games now. It will greatly increase if this team doesn’t put out a product that I am proud to follow.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
by mittsabishy on Mar 23, 2010 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions
agreed
I’ve been a fan all along, but this is just dumb/silly. So many basketball decisions are over my head and I just chalk up disagreements I have about playing time/offense. etc to that. But business decisions I get. And this is just poor leadership.
Then the entire arena froze as a primal, bloodthirsty shriek echoed through the seats and rafters. Beer vendors dropped their glasses, fans cowered, whistles fell out of refs' mouths, Coach Nate fell backwards into his seat, Monty Williams grew hair, watched it turn grey, and then sobbed as it fell out again all in an instant, and the Suns' blue and orange road uniforms suddenly included a conspicuous amount of yellow. B-Rex had arrived. And he was angry.
by musicdaniel on Mar 23, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not that bad
I would fire everyone involved in order to have Greg back healthy for the long run.
—Dave
by Dave on Mar 23, 2010 1:47 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why?
If ownership potentially and for no reason axes all the decent, knowledeable people and hires another Whitsit to surround a “healthy” Oden with th Quintel Woodses and JR Riders of the world?
Do you seriously think KP is blowing smoke when he talks about culture?
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
by OhOhOden on Mar 23, 2010 1:58 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Because the reality in this league is
that one, amazing 7-foot phenom center is infinitely harder to find than a GM who won’t mess up the team around that one, amazing 7-foot phenom center. I think even KP would probably agree. It probably keeps him humble.
—Dave
In any case
it was a flippant comment. Don’t take it TOO seriously, as it wasn’t meant that way.
—Dave
My original comment wasn't meant to be as depressing as it sounds looking back on it
Only that this situation gives me a similar sinking feeling to the one I had when I saw Greg on the deck with what appeared to be a giant hole where his kneecap should have been.
Okay, no problem
But I still say a GM with the abilities AND integrity that KP seems to have is a surer way to a championship than Chamberlain in his prime on a ship steered by Isiah Thomas.
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
by OhOhOden on Mar 23, 2010 2:10 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
OK but that's fallacious. Not having KP doesn't mean you must have Isiaah anymore than not having chamberlain means you're building around Dudley or Ha.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, please stop using the following: "Book it.", "FTW", "Epic" & "Fail".
...no seriously--stop.
by nima on Mar 23, 2010 9:32 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
it was a flippant comment. Don’t take it TOO seriously, as it wasn’t meant that way.
Thank you for bailing me out. I was about to have to disagree with you again (note my comment above) on a day when all of us in the Blazer nation are already getting along so well together. (He wipes the sweat from his brow and continues to shuffle along.)
21+52=
you mean, you're not a closet Durant fan?
rhetorical question, no response required
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I genuinely think it could be
Having your franchise’s key player go down with a season ender is not as bad as having an organisation with deep rooted flaws. Dysfunctional organisations don’t often win championships, whether they have the talent or not.
KP has made nothing but rational decisions in his tenure and firing him would be indicative of some serious internal issues IMO (unless there are serious flaws that we are unable to see, as you mentioned).
I'm with you...
The really bothersome thing here isn’t what is happening to KP. It’s much bigger then that. It’s yet further proof that the organization can’t get out of its own way. That after a year or two it feels the need to do something unbelievably stupid to hurt itself.
Also, consider this: how do you think they’re going to deal with Oden when his contract ends? There are quite a few rumors that one of KP’s supposed faults was trying to give Brandon a better deal than ownership wanted to offer. Maybe KP knew Brandon would walk? Maybe Oden will do the same. I can tell you this: if I’m Oden, with a history of injuries, I’m not settling for a short term deal with Portland, hoping that they will reward me if I develop. While I still have the mystique of potential, I’m going somewhere else if Portland won’t commit to me long-term, because I won’t trust them now.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
He'll be a restricted FA
Portland has the right to match whatever he gets on the open market. Oden won’t walk for nothing.
if Greg doesn't sign an extension this offseason
then who knows what kind of money he’ll be offered during the summer of 2011, heading into the new CBA?
One thing’s for sure, Oden can’t play 65+ NBA games between now and next September…if he wants to sign a LTC for security purposes (read: labor lockout) then Mike Conley Sr. will have to hard-sell his client’s potential, not his recent past
I expect something other than “amicable” negotiations this summer, hopefully I’ll be pleasantly surprised
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Yes, nobody is entirely sure what the new CBA will look like, but if he plays well next season, he will get a max contract under the new agreement.
If he signs this summer, the market guidelines for a guy like him (big potential, big injury problems, limited on court production) are Nene @ 6 yrs 60 million and Bynum @ 4 yrs 57 million. If management wants something smaller than this, they are likely going to have to not extend him this summer, and hope the CBA does the work for them.
I think 4 years at $57 million would put him about even with BROY
GO’s tender psyche is probably in for another beating. Negotiations with the Blazers sure took a toll on BROY.
I like your thinking Dave.
BTW – Another job well done. As always, thanks for the the read!
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
dave what are your thoughts on this?
from Quick:
All of this reeks heavily of a certain Western Conference general manager who is widely known to envy this job. He happens to have experience with the workings of the Vulcans. He has been on a constant smear campaign since Pritchard took over, harboring feelings that Pritchard “gloats” about his success, “rubbing it in the nose” of colleagues.
If some want to tout that source as credible, and not recognize the motives, that’s on them. And if Vulcan wants to play that way, then maybe this isn’t the place for Pritchard after all.
Even if that's true
(and Quick isn’t the first one to suggest it is) the team is letting itself get played.
Original story, about 2/3 of the way down:
http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/7/15/949941/the-kevin-pritchard-pendulum
Response from said GM:
http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/9/24/1054290/five-questions-with-mark-warkentien
—Dave
If there’s some purpose behind all this, what could it be? Is somebody just looking for a job with a bigger salary? I don’t understand what there is to gain from taking a successful franchise and blowing everything up from a management standpoint (especially one the fans love) when things are on the upswing.
Ugh. A Whitsett protegé, just what we need...........
Mark Warkentien: Let me be crystal clear that I absolutely enjoyed working with Bob Whitsitt…I worked for 12-seasons with Bob Whitsitt in SEA and POR; we went 591-361 during that span; won 62% of our games (approximately 51-games per year) and made the NBA Playoffs all 12-seasons…Those that are critical of Bob should try to post like digits, prior to pontificating. The facts and figures follow:
1991-1992 SEA 047-035 .573 Playoffs-SECOND ROUND
1992-1993 SEA 055-027 .670 Playoffs-CONFERENCE FINALS
1993-1994 SEA 063-019 .768 Playoffs-FIRST ROUND
1994-1995 POR 044-038 .536 Playoffs-FIRST ROUND
1995-1996 POR 044-038 .536 Playoffs-FIRST ROUND
1996-1997 POR 049-033 .597 Playoffs-FIRST ROUND
1997-1998 POR 046-036 .560 Playoffs-FIRST ROUND
1998-1999 POR 035-015 .700 Playoffs-CONFERENCE FINALS
1999-2000 POR 059-023 .719 Playoffs-CONFERENCE FINALS
2000-2001 POR 050-032 .609 Playoffs-FIRST ROUND
2001-2002 POR 049-033 .597 Playoffs-FIRST ROUND
2002-2003 POR 050-032 .609 Playoffs-FIRST ROUND
TOTAL 591-361 .620
During our time together he tackled some of the most complicated deals imaginable; including negotiating and managing more than $1 billion in player contracts with the Blazers/Seahawks and securing funding for the $450 million Seahawks football stadium and exhibition center. Bob is a guy that understands how to cut through the complexity of any business situation to get to the essential components that can mean the difference between success and failure. He was a dogged competitor who outworked and outmaneuvered opponents, often by taking bolder risks.
I love the guy.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Yeah
That jumped right out at me as well.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
Yes I would challenge Whitsitt's record
Warkentian misses two very important points.
1. Yes, the Blazers won a lot of regular season games. They made the playoffs each of those 12 years. However, in Portland, making the playoffs wasn’t enough. And his teams were first round exits 8 times in 10 years. Remember: half the league makes the playoffs, so that isn’t much to brag about.
2. Whitsitt helped take a franchise that was an absolute joy to watch and support and turned it into a talented collection of thugs and misfits that I would not have asked my children to watch. He (and apparently Warkentian) forgot the fundamental essence of sports: it is entertainment. When the players you watch engage in reprensible behavior, they stop being truly entertaining. And so fans stop watching. And this began to happen under Whitsitt’s watchful eye. So Warkentian is absolutely wrong when he says that Whitsitt gets to the “essential components.”
The depressing part of this entire controversy is that it smacks of a return to the Jailblazer era. We fans like to imagine that our team is a great big, happy family. That earlier unit made no such pretense, and in the process alienated the media, the fans, and themselves.
I won’t go so far as to say that if they fire KP I won’t support the team. But if Paul Allen allows this downward spiral to gain further momentum and allows the wrong decisions to be consistently made, then I will take that stop. It is only entertainment dollars, and there are many other options available to me.
by hercher on Mar 23, 2010 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would also argue
that Mark has not learned any lessons from those Portland days. Look at his current team in Denver, Sure they made it to the WCF last year, but before that they had never done anything in the post season, and have a team full of punks that I could never root for, even my wife hates watching Por/Den games because of Denver’s players.
If Kp does leave, no way would I want Mark as his replacement.
Ben II Blazersedge.com || New to Blazers' Edge?
To be fair.
Whoever figured out Chanuce for AI made a huge move that is directly responsible for them going from playoff losing team to a contending one.
who got AI in the first place?
Billups was a gift
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Mar 23, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions
More like turning broken eggs into an omelet
"Their length," he said. "Aldridge is a tough matchup for us. Roy's a very talented ball player, an All-Star player. Miller is just an incredibly savvy point guard with what he's able to do out there on the floor. You throw in their shooters who have size and are able to see over things. They understand where they are as a ball club." - Kurt Rambis
They weren't going anywhere with Dre either.
Melo needed a legit number two. AI wasn’t the right one but they turned him into the right one. Making lemonade out of lemons 101.
it was a cap dump by Dumars
and fell into his Wark’s lap. He was lucky AI had a contract big enough contract to make the trade work. Dumars cleared up cap room for… Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon? He’s Chris Wallace North.
That trade, and the Darko pick over Anthony, make Joe Dumars the greatest GM Denver has ever had
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Mar 23, 2010 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Wark has explained the process of the Billup's deal
several times during radio interviews
Detroit (and other teams) had heard about the possibility of Melo being dealt and called to inquire about Anthony. Mark said they never planned to deal Melo, but during his conversations with Dumars, Billup’s name came up. (FWIW, Chauncey is from Denver) As the season drew near, Dumars called back and they agreed on the AI deal.
So, the allegation that the deal “fell in his lap” is a over-simplification. The trade required a lot of groundwork and Mark massaged it until he had a blockbuster that reversed the fortunes of the Nuggett’s franchise (and probably extended Karl’s job 2-3 years) as well as earning Wark exec of the year honors
Why a Blazer fan wouldn’t want a GM who can pull off this kind of deal is beyond me, but like KP said, we “shouldn’t believe everything that we read” (on the internet, about Warkentien)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I have to agree with usmcr3049 even though I'm a Nuggets' fan
Wark works way to conservatively and always goes with the safer option, which is sometimes the worse option. I can’t believe he passed on drafting Dejuan Blair just so he could get a bit of money out of our 34th pick.
"Left hand, right hand, it doesn't matter. I'm amphibious." - Charles Shackleford
""He’s a stiff." - The Legendary Doug Moe
"We have a great bunch of outside shooters. Unfortunately, all our games are played indoors." - Weldon Drew
"I really didn't want it, but now that I've won it, it's nice. It's an honor. It's nice to know people don't think you're a total idiot. ... It must have been a poor year for coaches." - Doug Moe...talking about winning 1987-88 Coach of the Year award.
"We're just tough, man" - Chauncey Billups
I can’t believe he passed on drafting Dejuan Blair
I can’t believe that Portland passed on Blair at 31/33 either. The fact that RC Buford took a flier on DB soon afterwards doesn’t look good for Mark or KP, IMO
But Denver fans don’t like the GM that helped the team reach the WCF? That just goes to show that fans everywhere are never satisfied, I guess
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
So many thoughts ...
It’s hard to think about this topic without knowing much of the management back story but I have to agree with you. On the surface of what I can know is that KP has helped take an ugly team toward a well thought of community of talented players. I would not want to go back to the Jailblazer days or towards a Whitsitt protege. If the Blazer management wants to ‘business’ this ‘entertainment’ I will drop my portion of a season ticket and live life in other ways.
Thinking of this makes me weary.
There is nothing wrong with treating the franchise as a business
The Trailblazers are certainly entitled to make a profit. But the entertainment industry is a little different than some other industries. For example, if you are a manufacturer, you can make money through sheer volume. Even though your product may not be high quality, it can provide good value for consumers. Thus, an inexpensive economy car can be a big money maker. At the other end of the spectrum, you might have a luxury car maker, such as Mercedes-Benz. Their cars are high quality, but expensive. They still make money, but do so without the volume.
Entertainment is different. In order to sell, you must provide a quality product. In sports, that generally means that you must endeavor to put the best team on the floor possible. Understandably, costs are always a factor, but in the NBA, they are somewhat controlled by the salary cap.
It seems that upper management in the Trailblazers may be allowing factors other than the quality of their product influence their decision making. Thus, it appears that the firing of Tom Penn, the public humbling of Kevin Pritchard (and leaving him out to dangle) may have been the result of factors that have nothing to do with basketball, or with the ability of the franchise to sell their product.
I’m reluctant to speculate as to the exact reasons, but it does appear that personality is at least part of rationale. This is what is unfortunate. Kevin Pritchard and the rest of the Blazers organization under his direction have done a great job of making it fun to be a Blazer fan again. This current situation drains some of that fun away, and makes the team less enjoyable.
That's exactly what KP has been "selling" at multiple levels;
honesty, family, integrety, and competitiveness. When “big brother” comes along and knocks the chair out from under you and stomps on your playing field, the fun and possibly the commitment all goes away. Who wants to ride on that bandwagon for long?
What are the next steps by big brother? Hold GO up for as small a contract as possible? Don’t seriously try to resign Camby? Install a “cost-control specialist” as assistant GM? This begins a play of many acts; maybe in 3 years will see the “finale.”
but again, the only thing that matters
is that if Paul Allen thinks Wark is the man to return Portland to the WCF (like Denver has been, the last 2 years?) instead of KP, then he’ll make the switch this summer
Quick is anti-Warkentien, and has fostered the impression that Mark is A-Woj’s primary source re: the KP smear campaign. Vance has known Mark longer and disagrees 100% with this allegation (ref: Wheels at Work podcast, 1st segment today) Kenny said he wouldn’t be surprised if Wark is very interested in the Portland job (because the Nuggetts haven’t offered him an extension, either) but Vance said that Mark has always spoken well of KP and he doesn’t believe that Wark is going behind Kevin’s back and speading rumors to get him fired
Believe what you want, but I’ve been told that Quick is “the next Canzano” a few times and this may be further evidence of Jason’s need to sell fishwrap by creating “villians” with no substantiated evidence
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
It doesn't seem to be just Quick's contention
that Warkentien is the primary source. Quick quoted David Aldridge as saying so (gutsy to do it on the air if it was a lie), our own Dave has stated as much. Someone listening to A-Woj on 95.5 yesterday reported in the threads that A-Woj revealed his source as a Western Conference GM… Should we poll all of them?
So Vance wouldn’t be surprised if Warkentien is very interested in Portland job, but thinks he wouldn’t be behind the rumors. Hmm
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Mar 23, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
like I said, believe who you want
If Allen decides to replace KP with Wark, I suspect the allegiances will shift accordingly…after all, the media needs to cozy up to the GM to get their “news”
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Did not work the last time did it?
"Their length," he said. "Aldridge is a tough matchup for us. Roy's a very talented ball player, an All-Star player. Miller is just an incredibly savvy point guard with what he's able to do out there on the floor. You throw in their shooters who have size and are able to see over things. They understand where they are as a ball club." - Kurt Rambis
I'm not worried about allegiances between management and media
I’m worried about the man who may have been meddling in my team’s affairs, affecting this season, this man
http://www.nba.com/blazers/news/Warkentien_Wheeler_Interview010827.html
running the franchise
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Mar 23, 2010 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions
thanks for the link
but I’m not sure what you read in that article that alarms you about Wark. Yes, Mark worked for Bob Whitsitt. And he loves the fact that Portland is the only game in town and the fans are nuts about the team. But how this makes him the big meany who’s slinging mud at KP in hopes of getting the Blazer’s job escapes me
[Bob] has taught me some very key things. Never make decisions in anger. Always take responsibility and never point the finger even when the finger is being pointed unfairly at you. He’s also always tried to hire the right people. A lot of people have the philosophy always hire friends. Bob always says hire the right person and you’ll quickly become friends.
Sounds like a real jerk, to me
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I see how Mark appears to understand the flow of the game
He has identified duplications in talent and made excellent trades which have paid off for Denver.
KP has to this point harbored his duplicative talent at multiple positions with virtually no moves. One can argue the benefits of watching development, but a lack of understanding that in the end, Bayless is a poor mans BROY, Martell/Batum/Outlaw/Cunningham is a mess, Rudy has no defined role and Blake/______. is a glaring weak spot at a true point guard means KP really might not have made very good decisions based on all the young talent we had.
At the same time, I PERSONALLY have had to live through old guys fearing and hating my talent and young guys/clients loving me. It is tough.
Your assessment seems dated
You mention two players who have been moved — Outlaw and Blake. Trading them for Camby was a very good move for a variety of reasons. First, it cleaned up the roster. Batum is emerging as the primary SF. His consistency isn’t there yet, but I believe it will come. Moving Blake was a vote of confidence and commitment to Miller and Bayless. Miller is a solid true point guard, and I believe the hope is that Bayless will learn from him. Finally, it brought Camby to provide relief at the center position, and possibly provide a back up for next season.
It just doesn't make sense.
As Dave pointed out so eloquently, the most disturbing part of this whole mess is the sense that the organization is completely out of touch with the city and the fanbase. It’s hard to shake the feeling that they simply haven’t learned anything from the last fiasco. The backlash from fans following a potential Pritchard firing would be extremely serious. How hard is that for management to realize?
When it comes to the Blazers, I’m pretty much a pollyanna, but it’s hard to find anything positive in this situation. Here’s hoping it improves somehow…
by Roy Wonder on Mar 23, 2010 1:51 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
This is a nightmare that won't go away
Because the team we cheer for is led, not by competent basketball professionals, but by apparently directionless, clueless and possibly soulless creatures.
I would fault no one now for abandoning the team. Why stay when this could happen at any point, for no reason?
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
by OhOhOden on Mar 23, 2010 1:52 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I'm not jumping ship just yet.
I’m holding out hope that they get their act together and let KP continue the excellent work he’s been doing. The Penn firing is stupid, but I don’t think it’s much of a concern in and of itself. But the idea that they would remove the one guy most responsible for resurrecting this franchise from its own ashes—that seems unfathomable to me.
Me too, but
Usually the type of people who can honestly navigate out of this mess are the opposite of the type who get there in the first place.
The only way out of this was to endorse KP 100% and give him full control of the ship. I say on the supposition that the only people who have authority over KP are also those responsible for JailBlazers AND this fiasco
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
by OhOhOden on Mar 23, 2010 2:05 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Agreed.
Today’s events did little to inspire any confidence in their ability to rectify the situation. Really a sad spectacle.
Yes, is does stimulate curiosity as to the unspeakable offense ("philosophical differences")
that would necessitate such disruption. And yes, that picture of Pritchard is worth a thousand words, that still leave the question what/why unanswered. That unanswered part keeps the story, and speculation, alive.
"You be realistic," Oden said. "I’m going to stay happy. All right?"
Completely true
Secrecy, even when warranted is a concern, and that concern keeps the speculation going. Regardless of what is truth and what is fiction, the damage is done. From hence forth, the Blazers front office is damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
A person that has found out that the spouse was cheating would have felt better if everything was out in the open to begin with. Not that the incident would be more forgiving, but that he or she could have made their own decision as to be part of the fiasco. Same way as a Blazer fan, if things that was done behind closed doors was so bad that one of the members was forced out without giving out the justifications can only create chaotic feelings among fans. Was the problem just Penn? Was the firing of Penn due to the fact that he got caught with his hands in the cookie jar? Or was the firing the end of a on going problem. If a couple gets a divorce without confronting the children involved, will only cause tormented questions in the future of the children involved.
Whatever the reason for the firing of Penn and the future of KP to the organization, I could live with. Leaving it all up in the air to fester like a boil is almost too much to ask. Have we reverse to the days of the Mafia where killings was an everyday event or that the almighty dollar was worth more then loyalty? Or is KP a lying pile of crap?
hg
Once Penn has a new job I suspect the reasons for the firing will leak out.
Or, unfortunately, if KP goes too, then they’ll have to hire a damage control expert to build a new “team” spirit and culture. Eventually the “myth” won’t matter at all.
At any rate, I'm watching "Where the Wild Things Are"
To give me a sense of something more fantastical than the Vulcans.
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
by OhOhOden on Mar 23, 2010 2:25 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
grumble
It’s not working. For some reason a kid ordering melancholy monsters to build his dream fort is more plausible than firing the savior of Portland basketball.
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
by OhOhOden on Mar 23, 2010 2:47 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
It's depressing how much this has...festered since it happened.
I feel like your last paragraph says. 2 weeks ago my biggest worry was things involving the game itself. This playoffs and the draft and the offseason and next season, of roy and oden and camby and all those things. The things that are enjoyable to argue about and to speculate over. Basketball.
This stuff though…I can’t stomach it. This isn’t even entertainment, except for maybe in the same way that seeing someone trapped in a burning car and calling for help is more engrossing than doing nothing. It makes me feel sick inside. This isn’t what being a sports fan is being about. This internal drama and bull that is spilling over and taking away from the enjoyment of the game itself. And it seems like every attempt the Portland Trailblazers have made so far towards “fixing” it has just made it worse and worse.
The worst part is that even will all this, we are still left completely unclear on how to feel. I worshiped KP as a god before this, which may or may not have been warranted, but now I am just confused on how to feel. Did KP do something wrong? Should I be mad at him? Should I be mad at Penn? His agent? Miller? Has KP done nothing wrong? As much as I want to believe that one is what’s true, it’s basically impossible now that the Portland Trailblazers have done this to him. They’ve made it absolutely clear that they don’t support KP. That, at best, he is a tool to them, and at worst he is an unwanted tool to them. It just destroys all this good will I have built up towards the organization.
Do they really want me to look at it as a business? I mean, I understand that the organization is forced to look at it as a business, but I don’t know, I guess I just don’t want to be exposed to that as a fan. Ignorance is bliss. I want to have this misguided illusion that they are a group of people all working their damnedest to ball as hard as possible, to bring glory back to Portland, to show the rest of the NBA we aren’t some joke franchise and we’re here to win, and on and on. That they are indefatigable paragons at what they do among the NBA. We work so hard to fill our head with how much skill and potential our players are, and I guess I took that too far and felt the same way about the others in the organization.
I mean, I guess in the end I am just repeating what you said, and I’m sorry. I think you’ve captured the feeling too perfectly. Amazing post.
"We Believe" - Rudy Fernandez
Ugh. I'm so with you here. this is a MAJOR BUZZKILL
No Evil Vulcans! Only the good, albeit emotionless, kind.
Secrecy, even when warranted is a concern, and that concern keeps the speculation going. Regardless of what is truth and what is fiction, the damage is done. From hence forth, the Blazers front office is damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
A person that has found out that the spouse was cheating would have felt better if everything was out in the open to begin with. Not that the incident would be more forgiving, but that he or she could have made their own decision as to be part of the fiasco. Same way as a Blazer fan, if things that was done behind closed doors was so bad that one of the members was forced out without giving out the justifications can only create chaotic feelings among fans. Was the problem just Penn? Was the firing of Penn due to the fact that he got caught with his hands in the cookie jar? Or was the firing the end of a on going problem. If a couple gets a divorce without confronting the children involved, will only cause tormented questions in the future of the children involved.
Whatever the reason for the firing of Penn and the future of KP to the organization, I could live with. Leaving it all up in the air to fester like a boil is almost too much to ask. Have we reverse to the days of the Mafia where killings was an everyday event or that the almighty dollar was worth more then loyalty? Or is KP a lying pile of crap?
hg
Best read of something I hated to have to read.
Is it Thursday yet? I think the one thing that is clear is that when the team has more than 3 days off between games, stupid things happen.
#10 & #52
by idoltime on Mar 23, 2010 5:00 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Very nice work, Dave
That must have taken a few drafts.
Dave I will say it again if I haven't said it before. Awesome work
I was so dissapointed in the press conference yesterday for all the reasons you stated. It was a huge cluster…..
I said it then and I will say it again. Whoever the PR department is for the Blazers (and I think it’s Miller) should be fired on the spot for that dog and pony show. I don’t even care whether Pritchard should be fired or not. Whatever he did (unless it was something really stupid and heinous and if it was I can’t believe he wouldn’t have been fired immediately as well) pales in incompetence to how the Blazer’s front office has handled this situation. Are they so incompetent that they really didn’t learn the PR lessons from the Jailblazer era? Apparently not.
I don’t get mad about much with the Blazers, sure I get frustrated but generally I have enjoyed the last three years beyond what I ever thought I could considering how close I came to disavowing them during the “dark era”. But this makes me mad.
Ok rant over. Now back to hoping we beat Dallas and OKC and SA keep losing!
#52
Don't you think the PR "mistakes" are mandated to Allen or the Vulcans?
I guess Miller could be behind it, but I would think he would get canned if he were. This and the Miles letter to the league are both inexcusable in my mind. The best explanation seems to be that somebody up high was so ticked that they didn’t care what the consequences of their outburst were.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
This could be true as well.
Either way it is a horrible reflection on the Blazers. If Miller then sayonara Miller. If Paul Allen and the Vulcans then they will pay the price by alienating fans and will feel it eventually in the pocketbook. Maybe they don’t care.
#52
by blazermaniac32 on Mar 23, 2010 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Like Penn sampled one of
Paul Allen’s favorite call-girls?
"Oh, and Ted, give my love to the Princesses. Ted2: Who? Ted: You'll see." - Ted Theodore Logan.
Sabonis, Rasheed & The Towel
Now Kevin, Management & The Press Conference.
After 20 years of season tickets we gave em up then.
Now this, if KP is gone so are we. Plain and simple.
We have told managment of our intentions. We pay a fair chunk of change for good seats down low. I am furious. Curious to to see how the rest of the mob will react.
The Oden Era, Day 1000
by Heymoe on Mar 23, 2010 7:30 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm curious to hear more about your "Rudy trade story" from last June
you know the one, where Fernandez was nearly traded for Shaq but the deal was voted down (by a slim margin) by the Blazer’s brass? Has there been any follow-up re: Fernandez’ future that you’ve heard? Your account doesn’t seem to dovetail with Jason Filippi’s comments last month about Paul Allen regarding Rudy as being “untouchable”
(sorry to temporaily misdirect the thread, but Heymoe doesn’t comment very often)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
This whole episode reminds me of a Whitsett-era fiasco...
The question I’m starting to have is this: What if if was never Whitsett at all? What if the problem from Day One has always been Paul Allen and the drooling sycophants that swarm around him. It’s kind of typical for the high-profile, big money types to be surrounded by self-important nimrods, is it not? Even Zach Randolph had a posse…
Now Daddy Warbucks is sick and the jockeying is on in the corridors of power for CONTROL. Modern capitalism isn’t about ownership, it’s about control. It’s Machiavellian or Shakespearian, pick your favorite adjective… The slimers are in control of the circus — again — and Paul Allen is too sick or too weak a personality to do anything about it.
Of course, this whole mess could have been prevented by waiting. Now what they need to do is put Paul Allen — not Larry Miller, PAUL ALLEN — in front of a microphone and tell us the truth. We need honesty and self-criticism, not finger-pointing, forced smiles, and phony recitations of “it’s a group decision.”
Whacking Tom Penn was NOT a “group decision,” it was a decision (ill-timed, at a minimum) by one faction taken against another. And there’s only one guy “above factions” — the guy with the big boat.
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Mar 23, 2010 7:30 AM PDT reply actions 12 recs
That's what I've been wanting too.
Paul Allen is the man in control. He is obviously in a position to dictate, okay or veto all the important decisions. The Vulcan employees (and everyone else in the organization bow to his power. I’d love to hear from him.
Personally, I view Allen as being kind and good. He and KP seemed to have a great relationship. Is it really his intent to usurp Pritchard’s sphere of influence after how K.P. revived his franchise … and if so why? I really can’t believe that is his intent. Because of his serious illness, I suspect he could have been recently less involved with the internal dealings of the team and overlooked what was happening.
It’s time for Allen to step forward. I also think it is very likely that he will soon be doing so.
If this Blazer team doesn't light your fire, then your wood is wet!
That thought, disspiriting as it is, did occur to me too...
What if the Vulcans are stepping in and “helping protect” Paul’s interests while he is on “sick leave”???
Teriffic. We need Paul to get well. He is a fan, which is why he is such a great owner. “Sissy”, to my knowledge, is not, and may well view the Blazers as a financial looser indulgence.
"You be realistic," Oden said. "I’m going to stay happy. All right?"
I think you hit the nail on the head....
this is about positioning for control while the big guy is ill, or just doesn’t care.
Big REC Timbo.
"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green
by antediluvian on Mar 23, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Probably close to true.
The nature and persistence of the problem point to either Paul Allen or the top levels of Vulcan. Allen has, despite undoubted virtues, never been a very good businessman. His track record of investments, especially those where he took an active role, is bad. This may be due to incompetence as an executive, or just bad judgment; I don’t know. Either could explain this fiasco. (He also appears to suffer, like me, from the classic geek difficulty in social interaction — which would make it harder to foresee just how this would play out.)
I also do not know how consistent the top levels of Vulcan personnel have been. Certainly I would expect Allen’s interaction with the Blazers management to be mediated chiefly through those personnel. If they’ve been there persistently, they could be a (or the) source of the problems. As others here have noted, this could be exacerbated by Allen’s illness; depending on the corporate culture that can be perceived as weakness, which will lead to conflict among factions that would normally be brought to heel. That sort of strife could easily result in this mess.
"...the rumblings grew louder. Dribble. Dribble. Fake. Dribble. Fake. Shoot. ...a towering dark shadow too terrible to describe. In its hand it held a huge black globe and on its chest was written in cruel runes, 'Villanova.' 'Aiyee,' shouted Legolam. 'A ballhog!'"
Aside from the Marxist epiphanies
this sounds to be part of the truth. We don’t know about the dealings of some shadowy inner circle, but this thing sure isn’t basketball-related or something cut-and-dried. That sometimes happens during power grabs over dying people’s money.
Honor Alaa Abdelnaby.
First in the NBA. At least alphabetically
put Paul Allen — not Larry Miller, PAUL ALLEN — in front of a microphone and tell us the truth.
PA hires guys like LM to stand in front of the cameras/microphones
If we’re lucky, a local writer may buttonhole Paul at the Dallas game Thursday night and get a few lame quotes
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
i think he has two big boats actually.
One is Octopus and one is Medusa.
He had a 3rd at one point, too.
An offensive rebound in paragraph form. -Mr. Golliver
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Mar 23, 2010 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Rumor mill
I hate to provide momentum to the rumor mill and I agree with Dave that we’ll never hear the truth to this situation. But an email I got last Friday from a person who has a friend who works for the Blazers is that Penn was fired for accusing a high-ranking blazer employee of sleeping with Larry Miller and that KP will be fired this off-season and Larry Miller will take his place. This may explain why LM left KP hangin’ yesterday.
This entire situation is ridiculous.
by eswan on Mar 23, 2010 7:32 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
This thing does seem to have almost a "sexual scandal" vibe to it, does it not?
The suddenness of the Penn firing is one thing I never understood and still don’t. He did something to somebody or was seen as a threat to somebody for some reason…
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
Does Andre Miller really count as a "high-ranking Blazer employee"?
Andre Miller is an Anachronism
by tominhawaii on Mar 23, 2010 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
meh
maybe it’s true, maybe not.
The timing and KP’s look this year as well as the friction that came about with Roy/Aldridge signings leaves me to believe that something else was in the works.
It’s possible that an event sent things into motion, but maybe not. Seriously, if they were having an affair… so what?
I tend to believe this was premeditated and planned.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Penn denied sexual harrasment the day he was fired
and this allegation in that email would certainly apply
Miller has also denied any personal conficts with Tom (although if Larry was guilty you’d expect him to deny it)
A friend of a friend, eh? Well I heard from a friend of someone who used to work at Big Al’s that Oden injured his knee “fooling around” at the restaurant (original microfracture surgery, 2007) and the employees were all told to keep the incident quiet (or else)
Where’s the truth? And who’s trying to cover it up? How deep do we really want to dig for it?
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
kp
The real facts are that Bert Kolde and Paul Allen did not like Tom Penn and had told KP to fire Tom 3 months ago , and Bert Kolde thinks he knows more about basketball then Nate or KP he has try to undermind everything KP and Nate have try to do , he is the source and the only one talking to Yahoo, Espn , and the rest of the national press .,plus other GM’s and owners.The beat writers should talk to Bert Kolde he is the problem , he spents his day telling Paul Allen how bad of jobs that Nate, KP are doing ,Remember who wanted Chris Paul ,it was not Bert Kolde or Paul Allen. . This has to be one the worst PR mistakes in the history of the Blazers all cause by one person Bert Kolde feeding bad information to Paul Allen who’s health is the worst of is life .I hope Paul Allen see’s what is so call friend has caused .
by rfacts on Mar 23, 2010 7:34 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
wondering...
Of all the names associated with the Trail Blazer organization that have seemed constant over 10+ years other than Paul allen, it’s Bert Kolde. I remember his name in the background though many ups and down with the organization. I know nothing about Bert Kolde or the Vulcans, but the impression I have gotten is that he is the business muscle, the hatchet man. I know even less about Larry Miller, simply because he has been associated with the Blazers and Paul Allen less time.
Yet I felt compelled to add my baseless speculation about Bert Kolde being a possible contant presense associated with the Blazers. Who has a bigger piece of Paul’s ear than Bert Kolde? He may good as a business leader, but leading a sports franchise business and making decisions about player personell are quite different than the rest of the business world. So yes, I am wondering…
This isn't the Lakers,...
"It's not Show time. It's GO time!"
"War is Hell. Go to War!"
I don't know who Bert Kolde is
but I have NO doubt that a single person is Awoj’s source.
I have no doubt that this person is disgruntled at KP for whatever reason.
I have no doubt that this person is one of the Vulcans
Whether this person is Bert Kolde or someone else, I’d say it’s there and it’s personal.
Regardless of all the other gunk, it’s blatantly obvious someone up in Seattle has a personal grudge against KP and is using Awoj as a means to tear him down as well as likely attacking him from other directions.
Frankly, people like that should never be allowed to live long in an organization because the personal trumps business and that’s NOT a good kind of conflict to generate within a business. Eventually that infects everyone else and the walls come tumbling down.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
single source
within the blazers, that is. Sounds like we pretty much already know who the gm is which makes sense considering it all seems to be connected.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Bert Kolde, baby-faced assassin
it’s always the quiet ones that you have to watch out for…
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
You guys are *STILL* not mentioning the obvious.
I bet a lot of this has to do with Oden Durant. Folks in Portlandville are not noticing, but Durant is obviously the best player to enter the league since LeBron, and is pretty much a lock to be part of the best player conversation for years to come. Part of Oden/Durant is bad luck, I suppose, with Oden’s injuries.
But part of it was poor poor scouting— Durant was pretty obviously headed for the kind of greatness he’s displaying, is a perfect fit for the culture we were putting into place, is a great personality to be leading the team (significantly better than Roy and obviously on a different level than Oden, who’s something of a head case), and has also been spending the season assuring Oklahoma City that he loves it there and wants nothing more than to spend a long career saying hi to his friendly neighbors.
This season has been a long season of great games by Durant, seeing the team coalesce around his leadership, seeing how beloved he is by the fanbase there, seeing the stories about how he loves OKC, the relaxed and friendly neighbors, and how he wants nothing more than to spend his career there. Oden, by contrast – injured, fits poorly with rest of team and hurts everyone else’s game on the court, moody and withdrawn, and then the sexting.
KP got his job because Nash took Martell and Jack instead of CP3. It’s really not that surprising that he’d be on the outs now that he blew this one.
If this is really the driving factor ....
… then it is proof that elements of Vulcan are idiots.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
don't count on durant
he’s not an okc lifer, he’ll bolt for ny/tinseltown before long. write it down
by doomsdaymachine on Mar 23, 2010 8:17 AM PDT up reply actions
He's already promised to sign the extension
the day he gets offered the max.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions
He didn't even really mention the money
except to point out that he’s expecting the max (obviously). He talks a lot about how much he likes the quiet in OKC, he can concentrate on basketball then go home to his sleepy suburban neighborhood where his neighbors say hello and make him cookies and give him skittles.
I doubt the CBA changing even enters his head as something to think about— he’s a 21 year old kid who’s making millions a year, and still lives with his mom. He probably doesn’t even notice how many zeros.
He’s the polar opposite of LBJ in this respect. KD would rather avoid the klieg lights and just be able to concentrate on his game.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't always believe what players tell the local press (re: cookies and skittles)
KD would rather avoid the klieg lights and just be able to concentrate on his game.
I’m dubious. how do you know him so well?
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Mar 23, 2010 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
It's public record.
Dude has Twitter and talks to the press constantly. It’s pretty obvious when a player is doing athlete generic talk and when they’re being genuine. Read the articles and Twitter and judge for yourself.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I just read about 300 entries in his Twitter account
says a lot about his shoes, something about Destiny’s Child, almost nothing about any past or upcoming games, or basketball, or OKC.
I’ll keep following. I’m a little surprised that you already do
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Mar 23, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Try the articles too
I don’t follow his twitters but have seen bloggers link to specific ones.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Look, I get it.
Folks here are fans and support our guy. It’s a great quality.
My point isn’t to continue to relitigate oden-durant but to point out that this must be an element of what’s going on here with the loss of faith in KP.
This entire season has been really tough to be the GM who picked oden, and more importanly didn’t pick durant.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Look, I get it
you think that they should have picked Oden over Durant. Other people discussed it as an element in the problem. You read the comments, right? Maybe that’s why the STILL in your initial subject line irritated me. Like this is an elephant in the room no one will discuss.
It’s not blind loyalty to Oden. We recognize that, in retrospect, this has not paid off short-term. It was not a risk on an unknown quality like Darko, or one with obvious limitations, like Adam Morrison. Every writer I have seen, even those who say Portland made a mistake, also say that every other GM would have made the same mistake. Chad Ford just said that today.
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Mar 23, 2010 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions
At the point when I wrote the initial comment,
“Durant” hadn’t been uttered in this thread.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I've read the same articles
and can confirm everything howling is saying has been written
by Billy Hoyle on Mar 24, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd take Oden
but the real point is, do you think Paul Allen was not involved in that decision? Or the decision to draft Martell? He is widely known to love the draft. Does he love it from a distance when his team has a selection? I doubt it.
I’m not in Portlandville, but I think the fact that Nash assembled a miserable roster with big, long contracts and the fanbase was disappearing sunk him more than any one pick
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Mar 23, 2010 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Even if he bought in
I’m sure he bought in based on reports prepped by the staff, right?
Just keep in mind that this wasn’t one wring decision: this was a series of mistakes and ignoring red flags. KP is paid millions in part to not make this exact series of mistakes.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 9:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually
In one article I read his salary was only $800,000 which was a reason given for his agent being at odds with the organization to begin with. Which I can’t say I really blame them for considering KP’s contributions
What series of mistakes?
I know this is a place to post opinions, but they should at least be supported with some basis in reality. So how about being specific with all these mistakes Pritchard has made?
PS – it also helps your credibility to get your facts correct. KP isn’t getting paid millions. That is suppossedly part of the problem if you read the rumor mongering.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
How many years does it take to earn over 1 million
If you make 800k per annum?
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
before or after taxes?
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Christ. Fine, I'll revise my comment.
How’s this: “KP is paid lots and lots of money in part to not make this exact series of mistakes.”
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
KP may be a millionaire
but I doubt he’s a multi-millionaire…especially if you take his marital troubles into consideration
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I'm pretty well compensated
working for a big famous software company, but I’m never going to see 800k per year, nor are 99.999% of us fans. My heart continues to fail to bleed.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah well, no matter who you are, there never seems to be enough $
and typically go-getters like KP are motivated by “just a little bit more”
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
"Lots and lots" depends on one's perspective.
800 K is a lot to you or me. For a GM of an NBA team it may be below the median. When you are considered to be among the best in your field or profession, the tendency is to expect to be paid accordingly. There apparently is a good argument that KP’s compensation is not in line with his performance.
But let’s forget about whether he makes a lot of money or not. The more important issue has to do with his “series of mistakes”. I’m still waiting for someone to indicate exactly what all these mistakes are.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
To answer your first question, the point I'm trying to make
(probably pretty inelegantly, my apologies) is that the decision to draft Oden wasn’t one mistaken judgment, but a decision that involved a number of misjudgments.
First and foremost, to have drafted Oden, you had to believe KD wasn’t going to be what he is now. The highest upside projections for Oden was somewhere lower than what Durant’s currently projected at. Folks thought Oden might be a best center, top 10 type guy. KD is looking like a top 2 guy for years to come.
Second, fit. A lot of what KP talked about in picking Oden was how he fit into the team. Did you guys watch the start of this season? He seems to take a lot of Roy’s and LMA’s strengths off the table with all the room he takes up in the middle. Meanwhile, KD has great chemistry with a combo PG/SG in Russell Westbrook, a player not super similar to BRoy but in the same basic role.
Third, KP talked a lot about character. The sexting didn’t help, and there were warning signs for things like this. Meanwhile, KD is all basketball all the time.
Fourth, health. Despite what everyone here believes, there were warning signs. The different leg measurements, the clumsiness and lack of fluidity—injuries happen to clumsier, less fluid guys. Of course, fluid and coordinated guys get injured too, but not as predictably.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Wrong
Point 1-wrong.
No. Teams draft players for many other reasons. The difference between a great center and a replacement player is much more than a great wing and a replacement player. It’s like in football. The team that drafts a LT or DE with a first pick wins the superbowl more often than the team that picks the running back.
Point 2-wrong
WB is not anywhere near the same role as Roy. Durant is the same role as Roy.
point 3-wrong
The sexting shows nothing about character. Anyone that doesn’t have naked pictures of their girlfriends is crazy.
Point 4-wrong
Centers get hurt. Bynum hurt, Dampier hurt, Shaq hurt, Camby hurt, Pryz hurt, amare hurt, yao hurt, wallace hurt, zydrunas hurt, okur hurt, bogut hurt, chandler hurt, nene hurt.
Are you into Eugenics?
dinasour type of guys choir boys
let me step in this argument real quick
I’m on both sides.
1) I think the whole “Big men win everything / are irreplacable and wings are dime a dozen” narrative is off base. High caliber wings are not as prevelant as people think. We might not see a player as good as KD for a long long time, and many people knew it when he came out of college.
That being said. Oden was the right pick. We needed a big man. He was the best big to come out of college in a long time, and he KILLED it in the championship game.
2) The character issues with Oden dont stop at “sexting”. Believe me, the guy enjoys the green leafy stuff (not arugula) and visits the strip clubs quite often. He is basically a 22 year old with millions of dollars, nothing to be overly concerned about. But one of the big questions about Oden was his “drive and love for the game”. He seems to like basketball, but even Bill Simmons wrote that he doesnt appear to have the fire that drives the great players. While on the other hand, KD is a basketball fanatic from day one. Oden seems like he plays basketball because he is bigger and stronger than everyone and it was easy for him. KD appears to be a basketball junkie
All in all, its hard to blame KP for Oden. He fit what we needed more than Durant. But unless GO comes back to form and really contributes it will go down as one of the great draft mistakes, right up there with Bowie over MJ
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
I'll go for this
Based on some other comments made I could easily slide for Durant. I played devil’s advocate during the great debate because not a lot of people were championing Durant. The main thing I loved about him was his fire/love for basketball. The one thing I was worried about was that he’d over achieved and was great now but his body couldn’t achieve more.
The second concern was definitely false.
With Oden my concern was his fire, but a comment of “he scores on me I’ll stuff it down ten fold” (or something that left that impression of revenge) was stated by Oden and helped solidify my desire for him.
The leaf… the questions asked by Oden are all things I’ve never heard about . Might I have changed my mind?
Maybe. Hard to tell now. LIkely I would have leaned Durant.
Still, we had positional issues. a GIANT center hole. A player who was, not projected top ten, but a “once in ten year sort of center” vs a player that would overlap Brandon Roy at least for a few years (he started out at SG due to slight of frame and strength issues). It came down to that.
There were good arguments either way. In hindsight it’s very easy to trumpet. During the debate almost all debate leaned towards Oden with a few exceptions.
Even now it’s too early. give it a couple more years if you want to trumpet who’s right or wrong.
Pondering Howling and his posts… it occurs to me it could be about Durant though. What if someone high up felt strongly and feels like KP stepped on their toes during those debates. Maybe he did in some manner although I suspect it was likely unintentional and the exuberance of youth (passionate fellow that he is). Some people are sour old men that harbor grudges endlessly. From the outside the Durant vs Oden decision seems sound enough, but if this person was soured and then they keep looking at that trade and say to themselves “see! i was right! I was right!”… maybe that is where all this resentment is coming from.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
at which strip clubs have you seen him?
when have you smoked with him? It would help all your arguments
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Mar 23, 2010 2:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I have good friends that have seen Oden at both
clubs in downtown and out at Beaverton. This isnt a well kept secret or breaking news. Oden is always out and about.
As far as blowing tree. Jason Quick has alluded to it many times, and I have heard through people that have “dated” Oden that it was not an uncommon thing. Is that concrete proof? not at all, but I have heard it enough places that there is probably some truth to it, especially when I hear it from people who were present.
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
If you have actually had these things reported to you,
it helps me to see where you are coming from with some of your posts. Thanks.
I would also note though that it does not mean that these things are true. As a matter of fact, I find them to be very doubtful. Seems like to me Blazer management would have a major stake in reeling him in!
21+52=
its fairly common among NBA players
when Josh Howard said “50% of the NBA smokes weed”, thats probably pretty close to the truth. I’ve played golf with ex-NBA players from Portland that smoked for 18 holes straight. I dont think its a problem with Oden or that he is out of control. In fact, if you look at my posts above, its probably pretty common stuff for players his age.
If you dont believe a word of it, cool. I’m not worried about convincing you. Just know that what the NBA says these guys are about, what their teams say they are about, and what they ACTUALLY are about are completely different things.
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
Would you expect people to believe a nameless Internet accusation of this sort?
I hope not. That would not help your credibility. To me it just adds a little more to the picture of where you are coming from—good or bad. No need to make a final decision.
I dont think its a problem with Oden or that he is out of control.
Disagree. His weight, his conditioning, and injuries being potentially related to both—it is definitely an issue if it is true. That is like an alcoholic saying that drinking is not a problem because he still goes to work. Maybe, but how are you doing at work and how do you treat you wife and kids? And is he isolating and partying?
In order to be great and especially on the way up, a player has to do whatever it takes—mediocrity, no matter what needs to be sacrificed— has to be unacceptable.
21+52=
Parish and Kareem smoked their entire careers.
Didn’t seem to prevent them from playing pretty good ball.
by howlingfantods on Mar 24, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
I survived a car accident a numer of years ago,
but it doesn’t mean everyone lives through car accidents. And I certainly would not recommend them to professional athletes.
Also both Kareem and Parish were criticized for a lack of intensity and effort. And, “What was the level of their use?” Don’t think it is a good idea to give GO a pass on this sort of thing, if it is true. It is a serious issue, at least until he lives up to his potential.
21+52=
I tend not to agree with most of these points.
At the time of the draft people had sky high predictions on both players. It was Oden and Durant then everyone else. It sounds like revisionist history to now claim that it was obvious to almost everyone that Durant was a game changing player and Oden was at best a candidate for top ten players in the league. In fact, if we get to see a healthy Greg, it won’t be long before everyone realizes who is really the game changer and who is the very good, even exceptional player.
The whole fit from a game playing standpoint is a bogus argument, no matter which side you want to take. Mainly because we haven’t seen enough of Oden (and it is extremely unusual to try integrating a young center with his skills into a very young team still learning the basics) and we have no idea how Durant would fit on the team until we actually see it. The Westbrook / Roy comparison is an artifical stretch designed to support your argument. Bottom line, since Brandon and Kevin don’t play the same position, they should be able to play together. Whether each realizes his maximum potential under those circumstances is pure speculation.
The character bit is another big stretch. A 21 year old sends photos of his penis to his girlfriend. That may be an indication of some immaturity and perhaps poor decision making, but it certaintly isn’t a sign of lack of character. If anything, the manner in which we dealt with it showed a good deal of character.
We’ve been over the whole injury bit so much on this site that it isn’t worth discussing further, other than to say most of the “evidence” is from second guessers who like going back to items with the benefit of hindsight.
Getting back to my original point – if much of what is going on with KP right now has to do with buyer’s remorse over Oden by certain management types, then Lord help this franchise, because it is a sure sign the decision makers are idiots who believe being sucessful in one field qualifies them automatically to be successful in another.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
by timg56 on Mar 23, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Fair enough
everybody was pretty much in agreement that Oden was the choice. but to be fair, there were concerns about him before the draft. Some real, some speculated.
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
work ethic
I remember reading 2 articles after Portland won the lottery. The first one talked about how dedicated Durant was to be great, not just very good. He was described as a gym rat.
The article on Greg described him as a gentle giant who liked to take naps and watch movies
Needless to say, I was leaning towards Kevin. But then KP and Nate fired up the “big men win championships” hype machine and the next thing you know I had a #50 T-shirt. It just goes to show…always go with your first impression.
And if you beleived any of that drivel…I’ve got some “Mark Warkentien is A-Woj’s primary source for all of the dirt that’s fit to print about KP” swamp gas to sell ya!
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Yes. Exactly.
There was plenty of evidence for those who wanted to look for it. Ben of @blazeredge wrote a gazillion page whitepaper detailing every scrap he could find.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Hello? The response you replied to was...a parody
and I’m fully aware of Mr. Golliver’s draftkevindurant website.
It was fun while it lasted, but you notice Ben’s not bloggin for OKC these days?
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Oh, you're parodying the guys who were right.
Of course you are. This is a blazers fan site after all.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 10:10 PM PDT up reply actions
two guys who were proven right, using 20/20 hindsight
by events that have happened over the last 3 years (Greg’s injuries)
It doesn’t mean they were “right” in June ’07
Of that they’ll continue to be “right” 3+ years from now
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
from the Chad Ford chat today (sidebar>)
I spoke with virtually every NBA decision maker in the league. All of them told me they’d take Oden. This second guessing now doesn’t reflect the sentiment at the time. Durant was seen as a very special talent who could average 30 ppg in the league. But Oden was considered a huge defensive presence who could potentially be a factor offensively as well. While many of us felt that Durant was a better basketball player, I don’t think there was anyone who was planning on taking Durant ahead of Oden.
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Very well said and Recc'd.
I agree with your characterizing of the hindsight arguments as revisionist. C’mon, the Oden/Durant draft wasn’t that long ago.
If this is the primary reason
then it’s time to believe that the organization knows that Oden ain’t ever comin’ back.
And if that’s true, then the organization is BS-ing everyone about Greg on a timetable to return “maybe by the playoffs but most assuredly for next season”. The motives for doing this are obvious — to keep ticket prices high and the Rose Garden sold out.
They’re pedaling hope. Not an actual product, but the idea of what the product could be.
"Oh, and Ted, give my love to the Princesses. Ted2: Who? Ted: You'll see." - Ted Theodore Logan.
Considering it's starting to look
Like he’ll be a Knick in 2011, yes. Yes you can.
And should.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Mar 23, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
not the problem
The draft is over and nothing can change the outcome. If Penn and KP were fired we would still have Greg and OKC would have Durant.
How many points would Durant score sharing the points with LMA, BRoy, and Dre? Would BRoy or Durant be the star of the team? who would get the rebounds? who would play D? If we were still in the same boat it we picked Durant, who or what would you blame our failures to chose correctly as you see it on? Would you blame the management for taking Durant instead of Greg? I bet you would.
hg
If your decisionmaker blows a really big one,
then do you trust that decisionmaker going forward? Guys get fired from companies all the time when they blow something big, something that is their primary role to not blow.
Durant would be the star of the team. Obviously. Roy would be the best Robin since Pippen. Who would get the rebounds? You realize that we’re getting rebounds with Greg on the shelf now, right? And as it happens, KD is the leading rebounder on his team, and a better rebounder than Martell or Batum. Who would play D? Have you noticed that OKC is one of the top 5 defensive teams in the league, and we’ve been mediocre on D?
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Greg Oden was a sure thing
You can not help injuries. Period. They happen.
You make the best decisions you can make at the time with the best information you have.
IF KP and company (it was NOT just KP. Others where there too) picked Oden KNOWING that there was issues… then we can talk and it becomes a risk assessment of reward vs risks. Not knowing… you make the SAME DARN DECISION today.
Bigs win championships. Oden also filled a gaping need at center. Oden was a better fit overall. Oden didn’t need to score but could score. Durant SUCKED at defense. it really was a no brainer and Oden won.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
The difference between bowie and Jordan
Jordan was once in a life time player. Bowie was a good center with a reoccurring injury.
Durant and Oden were both once in a life time or at least ten year players. If oden didn’t have fluke injuries (as he cleared medical they had to be flukes), then this would be an amazingly different storyline right now.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
The amazingly different storyline is if we'd have
taken durant. The story would be the terrifying up and coming pdx, a gm crowned as genius for taking the correct but riskier pick, and no one talking about front office strife.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Which, again
you know in hindsight.
Unless Oden didn’t injure himself in OKC and dominated there.
My mistake for feeding you.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
The thing that gets me
is that we were fed the “once in a generation Center” by the media, but if you watchied him play in college, his stats were pretty average and Kevin Durant had almost as many rebounds as Oden had.
The championship game was what really did it for Oden
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
His stats were average
playing with one hand.
His stats went up with the use of his hand back.
Also… it was his first year in college. Look at other star centers and compare with their first year.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
thats true
but if you watched a young Shaq in college, there was a huge difference in how good he was compared to Oden. But it is also true that Oden probably would have destroyed the college game had he been healthy and played as a sophmore.
in the end, I just hope that Oden comes back and helps us win some games. I feel for the kid and I want to see at least 3-4 season of him fulfilling his potential. I also hope these knee surgeries havent destroyed his athletecism. People tend to forget the kind of freak athlete Oden was when he came out. Watch the Ohio State championship game film……madness
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
Shaq was not all that great in college (as is typical for a lot of big men do to the way the college game is played)
Shaq may not have been the best center on his college team. Without looking it up, do you know who that other center was? To me, you seem to be way off in your appraisals of Oden as a college center. Can you name any other big time centers that LED their teams to the finals in their freshman year? That is a major accomplishment.
21+52=
It's debatable that Greg led his team.
I’d say Conley had more to do with getting to the finals than Oden did.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I hope you are kidding,
but even if you are not, Conley’s leadership takes nothing away from the fact that Oden was also a leader on that team. And Oden was certainly the focus of opposing teams game plans.
21+52=
No, I'm not kidding.
Oden spent half the tourney sitting down with foul trouble. He got taken to school by whatshisface at Xavier, something Cage. He fouled out stupidly in that game and they never would’ve gotten out of the round of 32 I think that game was, if it weren’t for Conley feeding their outside shooters for open jumpers.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Just because Oden was a better NBA prospect
doesn’t mean that he was the leader on the buckeye team. Oden sat most of the Georgetown game, he nearly played his team out of the tourney in the Xavier game. His only good game was the game against FL, and even that performance was super overhyped. Even Ron Lewis was arguably a better contributor on their run than Oden.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions
As I remember, Oden played with a broken right wrist
and shot free throws left handed.
For the first few weeks after he returned
from his broken wrist. By the end of the season, his wrist was fine.
by howlingfantods on Mar 24, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
btw, fatley roberts is the name you're looking for, I think.
And I disagree with you about Shaq v Oden. Shaq was unbelievable after his freshman year, and he entered college two years younger than Oden. Shaq put up 27 and 15 his sophomore year one year younger than Oden was as a frosh.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions
No doubt that Shaq has been a great player for a long time, but
the most realistic comparison is freshman year to freshman year—because we do not have further years for Oden, and do not know what he would have done. I don’t think Shaq ever got LSU to the finals in his three years, and he certainly did not get it done his freshman year. (W’s and L’s are the top indications of talent in my book.)
I was a fan of his at the time and what I remember most was Shaq not being able to get his team over the hump, because of a lack of overall skills. Yes he was a tremendious physical specimen, but he lacked many of the skills that he would later develop in his hay-day with the Flakers.
When Shaq came into college he had gaping holes in his game. Poor free throw shooter. Basically a dunker who could not shoot from more than a couple of feet from the hoop. And a lack of ability to adjust to opposing team’s game plans—partly because he could not shoot or hit foul shots.
Oden displayed better skills. Right and left handed hooks. Good touch on short shots around the basket from varied angles. Excellent free throw shooting, especially since most of the year he was shooting with his left hand. And he was a great athlete. Media hype had little to do with Oden’s draft stock—he appeared to be the real deal from a skills and talent standpoint. I still do not question Oden on those issues. What is more up for grabs is his desire and off the court behavior.
21+52=
Most basketball analytic stat guys
consider age comparisons more valid than by class or years in the league.
If you’re really going to try to argue that Oden is a better offensive player at this point in his career than Shaqs at any point in his career, I’m not going to be too sympathetic. He was unstoppable against double teams from his very first year in the league. Oden is very stoppable.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Most basketball analytic stat guys consider age comparisons more valid than by class or years in the league.
So you want to compare Shaq’s thirt year to Oden’s first and only? Age is certainly not that much of a factor. Are you trying to say Shaq was not physically mature? Really?
If you’re really going to try to argue that Oden is a better offensive player at this point in his career than Shaq’s at any point in his career, I’m not going to be too sympathetic. He was unstoppable against double teams from his very first year in the league.
Again, I was talking about their college careers. Also, Oden was coming off of micro fracture surgery in his first pro season???
And just so you know, I consider Shaq to be the best center ever for his peak years—its just that he too has had conditioning issues.
My original point was not Shaq vs. Oden. What I was trying to get at was that we have to look at things in the context of the college game. Criticisms were thrown out there about Oden’s college play (he only got them to the finals). Some players, like Shaq and Oden, are better suited to the pro game than the college game, especially as they develop their skills further.
Oden was considered to be one of those players. A great tool box! Who really cares what he did in college? I used Shaq because he could not win a title in college, but he turned out to be a pretty good pro. It is pure foolishness to say he was not going to be a good pro based on his college career—his pro career has been better. Greg’s pro career should also be better!
People who know pro basketball do not get too excited by college stats (think Adam Morrison, Christian Laettner, Walter Davis, Karl Malone, and Maurice Lucas).
21+52=
stanley roberts was the other
And I watched every one of Oden’s games. Believe me when I say that he didnt dominate. Part of it was that they had trouble making basic entry passes, and part of it was Oden mentally checking out or fouling too much (sound familiar?)
And although Oden was a big piece of that Championship team, there were 3 other NBA players on that team as well.
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
Stanley Roberts had some skills,
it is just too bad he took the commercials for George Foreman’s grill more seriously than he took basketball.
(sound familiar?)
Yes, it sounds like hindsight again. Before the draft I don’t think any of the experts were concerned about the fouling issue. If I remember correctly, several of Florida’s bigs had fouling issues against Oden, and I don’t think any of them have major issues now. (In the college game, with its 5 foul limit, big guys, particularly if they are the main guy, end up in foul trouble—heck, we are seeing it again this year.)
Believe me when I say that he didnt dominate.
No, I don’t believe you. And the experts certainly disagreed with you. As they say, “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.” I could look at paintings all day and would probably not be able to pick out the really good ones.
And even now, I don’t think people in the know would be saying that the talent is not, was not, there. The concerns are injuries and attitude. The guy is seriously long, strong, and quick (no jokes). He has the speed to get up and down the court. He can use both his right and left hand. He has excellent touch from the field and from the foul line. He has good timing on the defensive end. And he rebounds like a fool.
The more appropriate questions revolve around conditioning, his weight (think Stanley again), and injuries. In short, “The talent got paid, now what?”
I would get Stanley Roberts comparisons, because Stanley really was a talent who had other interests. (What I don’t get is all of the revisionist history—to me that is weak. And self serving.) In the end run though, I am still rooting for Greg to overcome his inner Stanley. I still believe he can do it—but the clock is ticking. But none of this gum flapping changes who Greg was or changes who Greg Oden could have been.
21+52=
dude
14 pts and 8 rebounds is dominating?
I guess Travis Outlaw is dominating the NBA then
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
His stats went up with both hands
but still not to “once in a generation” levels. They were good not great. Great rebounding, limited offensively, good to great defender but very very foul prone. Pretty much what we’re seeing now, actually.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Durant was big 12 all defensive team.
So pretty much factually wrong right there. He sucked at d his first year on the league when he was transitioning from playing pf/c to playing sg.
Oden came in and had a terrible workout. He blamed it on the altitude in Portland (?). His main questions to his future teammates was about the partying scene in Pdx and in interviews seemed unenthused about being in such a sleepy town. His legs measured different lengths. He just looks clumsy and somewhat mechanical. Despite all the talks of dominance, had a pretty underwhelming season in college and in the playoffs except for a few shining moments in the title game.
Kd killed it in his workout. All he asked about was about basketball.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
you're entitled to your opinion
His main questions to his future teammates was about the partying scene in Pdx and in interviews seemed unenthused about being in such a sleepy town.
But it’s not fair to insinuate that Greg has come in here and been anything but extraordinarily dedicated to this franchise and improving his game. NOBODY worked harder over the last summer—developing post moves and more efficient motions on the offensive end, getting in better shape and slimming down, and over the first 20 games this year he was probably our best player. That’s his commitment to the game and to this team. Obviously, considering the injuries, Durant looks like a great pick, but the only reason he’s been preferrable (and it’s a big reason) is the injuries. Not Oden’s attitude and certainly not his ability to dominate on both ends of the court.
Oden came in and had a terrible workout.
Highly doubtful! And then we drafted him Number 1!
had a pretty underwhelming season in college
And then most of the basketball experts thought he had a real chance to be an alltime great center. Sounds reasonable to me???
At that time, from what I saw in college, he had the chance to be another, “Dream,” if he wanted it. Now I would say that attitude and injuries have definitely worked their way into the equation.
Oden was special. My hope is that he still wants to be exactly that and prove to the world that his critics did not know what they were talking about. And by the way, even if he does not do it, his critics were still wrong about what he could have become—I know what I saw—and I am sticking to that part of my story!
21+52=
1) Yes, he had a terrible workout.
His conditioning was very poor which is very surprising since draftees usually spend the time between the final fours and the draft working nonstop to cram and improve their bodies and skill in time for the pre-drafts. Poor enough so they had to stop a few times and break. He was laboring throughout, and he said later that it was maybe because he had to adjust to the pacific northwest altitude.
Yes, and we still drafted him Number 1.
2) Yes, most basketball experts thought he had a chance to be an all time great despite an underwhelming college season. It’s the same trap the experts and GMs fall into every year— evaluating a guy based on size, physique, and raw athletic ability instead of the ability to play basketball.
Imagining him as another Dream based on his stiff mechanical low post move (not “moves”, since he only had but one) was a real stretch. I thought his jumper looked good enough so maybe he could be a face up 10 footer type guy like Alonzo.
He is damn efficient and he does rebound like a monster though. Dave Berri will love his career.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s the same trap the experts and GMs fall into every year— evaluating a guy based on size, physique, and raw athletic ability instead of the ability to play basketball.
There is no perfect balance between college production and athletic potential which indicates pro success. Adam Morrison had tremendous production in college—and totally fell flat as a pro. Other players to light it up in college and fall flat in the pros include Rashad McCants, Raymond Felton and Randy Foye. On the other hand, Dwight Howard was drafted totally on potential over Emeka Okafor’s production. We all know how that turned out. Nene and Andrew Bynum are other players with no high-level achievements who are doing well in the NBA: they were drafted based on physique and potential.
You’re right to point to some players being overvalued based on potential: Darko, Nicolas Tskitishvili, Kwame Brown etc. etc. It’s not an exact science, but I think it’s incorrect to say scouts consistently err toward potential at the expense of college accomplishments.
He is damn efficient and he does rebound like a monster though. Dave Berri will love his career.
It’s not just Dave Berri. EVERY statistical system loves Oden’s statistical contributions, and everyone who watched Trailblazers games from the first quarter of the season will tell you he had an appreciable positive impact on the team’s play. If he can stay injury free and play at that level for the better part of a decade, that would be a great career.
wow, have to disagree on the "sure thing":
Durant was the sure thing by having already developed far surperior basketball skills – his workout was spectacular, Oden’s was followed by apologies. Durant had demonstrated the single minded determination and discipline in developing his game over many years. Oden was playing because he was big, and had shown nowhere near such discipline and devotion to developing his game. Oden was the super strong big man with POTENTIAL, hindered by injuries in the past. Oden was always more of a project. And ANY big man, by virtue of the greater toll on the human body such size and strength magnifies, is more likely to suffer injuries.
As far as us needing a big man as an explanation goes, EVERYBODY needs a Durant ! A total player like KD is golden. Greg was the big gamble, which could have paid off if injury free. I was devastated when Oden was chosen, as were others. This “everybody” would take Oden rationalization is false. Sure, MOST people aparently would have. I mean I try to not comment on this too much, but dang. We coulda had so much more fun for much longer, in all likelihood, with Durant. But we were lucky to win the lottery, and lucky to get Oden. So, I know, we go with what we got. But this idea that there was no way to actually pick Durant first, just aint so. I, and others, always felt it was the smart, exciting move. I really was hoping KP was going to cap his shock and awe draft record with Durant.
So, you are quite correct, I would defnately make the same choice now. But, more to the point at hand, I really doubt that the Oden draft is a significant component of the current shakeup. As far as blaming someone, Nate was way more Oden than KP. And I expect that Allen was the “tie breaker”, he could, and probably did, get whatever he wanted. I can’t see anyone getting blamed much for that.
"You be realistic," Oden said. "I’m going to stay happy. All right?"
I disagree
that KP got this job because the previous regime did not draft CP3. KP got the job to clear up hte entire mess of the previous regimes (both the Whittsit and Paterson/Nash regimes).
"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green
by antediluvian on Mar 23, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Allen forces the GM to draft Patty Mills against everyone elses wishes
Do you really think he didn’t have a say in the Oden pick?
Durant is Alex English 2.0.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
by mittsabishy on Mar 23, 2010 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Shhhh
The young ‘uns don’t know who that is.
“Those who fail to learn History…” works both ways.
Love the Screen name by the way. Bugged me for decades now.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Mar 23, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
right back at you.
bowie is great.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
by mittsabishy on Mar 23, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Alex was a really nice player
One of the best second round picks ever? I can’t think of many better. He is a HOF guy… But he’s no Kevin durant, come on with that. His peak years aren’t close to kd at 21.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
It's really more the feel of his game when watching
Kevin Martin would probably be the more exact comparison to English, but I see KD with the same limitations (absolute lack of physicality, no D, merely adequate leadership ability) as English.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Mar 23, 2010 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I compared him to the best scorer of the 80s.
you are a durant homer.
dinasour type of guys choir boys
I'd take bird or jordan over Alex, no offense to him.
Alex might’ve scored the most in the decade (not sure on that actually but seems kind of likely) but he wasn’t the most unstoppable.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
and maybe pre-knee Bernard King.
I’d put Alex about neck and neck with George Gervin, I guess.
by howlingfantods on Mar 23, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I have a feel this is going to get even uglier
by PoliSam on Mar 23, 2010 7:37 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Considering that in my mind
KP is already fired, Oden has already left, Wark has completed his schemes and is our GM, and Nate has already resigned (and been replaced by Don Nelson), I can’t see how it could get uglier. If Paul moves the team to Seattle?
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Mar 23, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Let the Vulcans take Center Stage
What I would like to see happen is for the Vulcans to be introduced before the beginning of the next home game and then walk out to Center Court. (It would be even better if they promoted this event, then I would definitely get tickets.)
Then they could stand up and take credit for the actions they have taken. I am guessing the Blazer Community would give them the appropriate response.
Dave, amazing writing in troubled times!! Word Up!!
by dawgman47 on Mar 23, 2010 7:46 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Isn't blood hard to clean off of hardwood?
Note to self- lay down tarps on play surface before Vulcan introduction ceremony
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Mar 23, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Great article, Dave.
You nailed it. And the sick thing is, I have no confidence that the Blazers get this right. I want to believe they’ll right the ship, but the more I think about it, the more I think it’s foolish to think they’ll ever get things straightened out. Their track record is just to ugly, as you have noted.
Who knows what the source is, but somebody high up has an uncanny ability to shoot this team in the foot. And that hasn’t changed, even during the team’s recent resurgence. Think back to the Miles saga. Anyone with half a brain would have known nothing good could have come from the Miller letter, and yet, it was sent. And as you so clearly explain, this recent episode is utterly confounding.
I think we are left to make one of two conclusions about ownership and upper management. Either they are stupid or they are so vindictive and reactionary that they’re willing to shoot themselves in the foot just to make a point. It’s pretty hard to believe they’re stupid, so I guess we’re left with the second option. I hate to think that, but I’m having a hard time coming up with another logical explanation for the behavior we’ve seen.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
by DC Blazer on Mar 23, 2010 7:48 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Great read
This is the kind of read that really keeps me coming back. Best distillation of all the muck of the last few days I’ve read.
Thanks Dave!
Ownership Problem
At some level we have always had one. We have had more than enough money……..and no rings. The Blazer community trust was shattered during the Jail Blazer Era and has just been rebuilt. The whole Rose Garden bankruptcy. Frankly Allen has never been a top flight owner. We have been lulled by a series of good player moves and a vastly improved community outreach culminating in a playoff appearance. Let’s hope that continues……….
Great Points!!
I was thinking along the same lines that it takes a great organization to win Championships. Not just good players. There are plenty of Teams with good and even great players that are not contenders.
I think is going to hurt our ability to get players to buy in too.
All of the hype KP sold has been severely undercut. And who’s going to make deals with him or his replacement now if they have other options? Or how about signing a short deal and trusting them to reward you when you work hard and stay healthy? Want to sacrifice your stats for this team? They’ll use you and dispose of you at the drop of a hat. Want to coach for this team? Nate is certainly leery of making a long-term commitment.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
Great article Dave
Two additional potential outcomes from this mess.
A. GO goes into depression again and blames this debacle on himself…Eats his way out of shape.
or
B. GO grows out his threads and becomes more driven to be the right draft pick of KP…works his way back and better for next season
70% chance it goes B imo.
fiftytwo
I've actually worried about A. a lot
The guy seems very loyal and hard on himself.
How could he possibly feel anything but terrible if KP is fired?
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Mar 23, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
How do you rec a main page post?
I’ve never bothered trying to rec one of Dave’s columns, although they’ve nearly always been interesting and insightful. After all, there is no special page location of enhanced visibility for a recced main page post. But this one I have to rec just because it is so much the truth. Problem is I can’t find the doohickey to click on. Any ideas?
As for the subject at hand …
This is a very painful episode, and one that makes me wonder how long I will be a Blazer fan. Not that I’d transfer my allegiance to some other team, but at some point I might just stop caring enough to DVR the games or write my little musings here on BE or make it up to Portland to actually attend a couple games in a season.
Let’s hope there is reason for at least a little bit of optimism very soon.
Thanks again, Dave.
#52
I think Dave has gotten to the real issue.
There has always been a strangeness to the Blazer organization under Allen’s ownership. A dichotomy between the basketball organization in Portland and the folks at Vulcan. And that is not good for the Portland Trailblazers. They may still achieve sussess on the court, but long term this conflict in agendas is liable to derail long term success.
And looking at it in this light, I can understand why Larry Miller may have been surprised by this. He was brought in from the outside and is not one of Allen’s Vulcans.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Paul Allen is not a good businessman
Never has been. He flips from over-paying to brutal cost-cutting (or investment abandoning, as the case may be) at the drop of a hat.
Looks like we’re on the downswing with the Blazers now.
Someone needs to remind PA that “While you’re sick or feeling icky” is a terrible time to make decisions.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Mar 23, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
truth is
not all was well with the Larry Weinberg ownership era, either
we just didn’t find out a lot about it, at the time (before the internet, etc)
Drafting LaRue
Wicks-Petrie feud led to several coaches getting fired
Walton’s injuries and eventual lawsuit
Lucas and Hollins leaving as FAs because they didn’t get properly compensated
Billy Ray Bates off-court issues
the Bowie draft
It’s a good thing this franchise won a championship, because otherwise it would be even more maligned. Halberstam’s book (Breaks of the Game) should be required reading for all Blazer fans
Regardless, I love these guys and the Vulcans aren’t going to chase me off (or extract any extra money out of my wallet…)
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I D I O T I C
Obviously we love the “team”, we are grateful for Mr Allen, but there have been some really stupid choices made by management/ownership of this team. I am afraid this will go up in flames.
by doomsdaymachine on Mar 23, 2010 8:19 AM PDT reply actions
wonderful, if painful, read
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
Huge mistake
Since they couldnt wait till the players were on a beach somewhere sippin margaritas, I wonder what kind of impact this is having on the mindset and focus of the players. Afterall its got our attention. Theyve got to be rattled a little more than we are.
timing
Penn was dismissed with a dozen games left to go in the season with the team fighting for a post-season berth.
Please don’t forget it was the very day after season tickets were renewed at record levels.
That this would mean anything seemed silly last week.
It’s seeming less and less silly as this goes on.
The question everyone should be asking is
why did Tom Penn get a promotion and extension and KP did not, after everything he has done? That single question will get you to the “truth”.
And Dave, I disagree about the timing: this was the perfect time for Miller and the Vulcans to do this, at least in their mind. They figured the team making the playoffs would make people forget. It’s no coincidence that this happened after season ticket renewals and the team was virtually guaranteed a playoff spot. During the off-season, with nothing else to talk about, this story would be THE story. If this gets pushed out of the way as people get excited about the playoffs, it will have been shrewd timing.
Patty Mills - PG of the future. Book it.
management
This could be the blow that finally breaks the un-dieing my fandome. This would hurt more than the Jail Blazer era. That came on slow, and I enjoyed watching the teams. It was like the a bathtub being slowly heated to a boil. It sure felt good for awhile. Heck, I even felt guilty leaving the team after being the biggest homer in the world when they were making runs at the championship. Plus, the players were fun to watch.
No, is different. This is drastic. I will not be able to be the same kind of fan as before. This is like turning the dial to boil in a flash. I’m not staying in that water! I simply don’t trust blazer management. Let’s look at the resent past:
1. comcast! I haven’t been able to watch any of the games unless I drive into town and sit in a dingy bar.
2. The rose garden. Man, the decisions that have been done with that gem have been terrible.
3. The email! That was embarrassing to read as a fan. I can’t believe that Larry Miller wasn’t fired for that!
4. Did I mention COMCAST!!! I can’t even get the games on League Pass. There is something wrong with a management that can’t find a way to make comcast do what they do for every other NBA market that they broadcast for.
5. And, now they’re messing with the KP. The guy who righted the ship.
I don’t know if the volcomes can be forgiven for this. I don’t think that Paul Allen has much control of the situation right now. He does have cancer after all. Who knows what will happen when he sells the Blazers.
I’ve been a fan sense I can remember. I remember watching games on my Pop’s lap. I can stand for bad moves with players, losing games, even some stupid mistakes by the players. I can’t stand for watching KP get fired like this. Or, even handled like this. Larry Miller doesn’t understand what KP has done for the fans of Oregon.
IN KP WE TRUST.
But you know....
I think the Vulcans still think the Comcast decision was a good one. They got a TON of money for that deal. So it’s working for the finance guys. They just don’t care about the fan base unless there is a direct financial impact.
Either Larry Miller is completely in the pocket of the Vulcans, or he simply doesn’t understand the Blazer fan base AT ALL.
"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green
by antediluvian on Mar 23, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Miller is doing what he did at Nike
Funneling the vitriol and ego-assuagement of a too-rich, too-powerful man into something that is digestible by his executives and players, and not TOO off-putting to the general public.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Mar 23, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you Dave
You expressed everything that I had been feeling but couldn’t really articulate like you have so comprehensively. This is pretty tragic stuff.
I didn't mean to turn you on
The Spectre of Qyntel Woods
Dave has reason to be concerned because he like the former Blazer Qyntel Woods he has a dog in this fight. The Blazersedge means something to him and has value for him that is tangible. You can already see where this is going. We fan have little reason to be concerned since our role as mere spectators was long ago defined. Why should we waste an ounce of passion on the mean squabbles of greedy men? Dave is a good host and he provides a nice home for us to meet and place our bets. Honestly, why should we care for the men in suits beyond care for their basic humanity which anyway is now submerged in a vicious dogfight. Kevin Pritchard long ago sold his sold to the devil for wealth and fame. Let him sleep in his bed with his Vulcan lovers. There is no need to cry for the man that freed us from the spectre of Qyntel Woods because that man was an illusion and was never, ever more than imaginary. The next GM will put a nice dish on the table, maybe even better than the current fare. Some of the side dishes may be a little unsavory. You might have to swallow hard to get past a side of Amare Stoudamire for instance but oh well, that’s just part of the whole experience. Now, before you flame me with Vulcan like fireballs try to see that you aren’t so different from me. You came back to the Blazers after their last demise and unless the price of admision continues to skyrocket you’ll come back after this one. And honestly sometimes there’s more than enough elitism in our attitudes. Who are we to judge so harshly the quality of character of Baron Davis or Rasheed Wallace. They give us exactly what we pay for, a great display. You are like me, you want to cheer for a winner and like me you are willing to accept the occassional Bird Man to get it. It would hurt the Blazers to hire a gunslinger now and then and it wouldn’t hurt the fans to cheer him. Here’s to Bonzi!
I don't actually.
Seems like some sort of drunk rambling from a frustrated wannabe poet. It makes zero sense.
Not that it has to. BUt if you want us to “get it”, I’d say you failed in at least two cases.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Dave, this is excellent
Sad, but excellent. What a train wreck.
Free AK1984.
"The two women were of a certain age and were clearly drunk... The only thing that I can get out of this is Why, since all these things happen to me, they couldn’t be two young girls and pretty? :-)" - Rudy Fernandez
KP > PA
Dave,
This piece is why, as a fan who is not in the Portland Metro Area, I come here for my Blazer analysis and news. Thanks again for giving me SOME kind of perspective on this whole stinky thing.
RoadBlazer
How can this taking Oden instead of Durant the problem?
The draft is over and nothing can change the outcome. If Penn and KP were fired we would still have Greg and OKC would have Durant.
How many points would Durant score sharing the points with LMA, BRoy, and Dre? Would BRoy or Durant be the star of the team? who would get the rebounds? who would play D? If we were still in the same boat it we picked Durant, who or what would you blame our failures to chose correctly as you see it on? Would you blame the management for taking Durant instead of Greg? I bet you would.
hg
An outside point of view
I agree with Dave and others analysis and would just add this. It appears based on the team’s history and admittedly with little actual knowledge of what did happen and not knowing the culture within the organization on a day to day basis that the problem is systemic as others have posted.
My insight such as it is, is that the people in charge whomever they are aren’t communicating effectively within the organization with those people who should be counseling them on these issues. I agree they should be able to see these things coming, such as Larry Miller’s email to the entire league saying they’ll sue if anyone picks up Darius Miles. These are conversations which should be hashed out inside the organization in a conference room with open dialogue with the right people speaking freely and come to the best decision for the organization. That is clearly not happening.
My guess is because the environment within the organization created by Paul Allen or whoever has the juice below him doesn’t create an environment where people are comfortable doing this. One of the reasons may be their history of flying off the handle… those people who aren’t making high end salaries in the organization, PR, HR etc. may not be too inclined to stick their necks out and say something seeing how people are quick to cut bait and move on…
So my take is until the Blazers Organization changes this culture, which I had thought they had done by putting KP in charge, this will continue to happen, because as a business organization it doesn’t appear they are a high functioning team.
The Vulcans
Are illogical.
"My shoulder is OK. And away we go." -- Nic Batum
"wang-dang diddly wubba SPROING wow-wow" -- Dave
Allen is the primary reason
the Blazers have been competitive over his tenure, and he is also the primary reason the Blazers never reach their potential. His money speaks loudly, but unfortunately money is his only form of communication. He is a social nitwit. We’ve seen Vulcan here before. They are just a repackaged Harry Hutt et al. I remember the way his minions treated the Shonz and this is remarkably similar, other than the Shonz firing was far more personal to the fans but the current Pritch situation is far more relevant to the future of the actual team. Allen likes to tinker but not be held accountable for it. There is nobody to tell him “no”. I’m not sure if his health is also driving some of the irrational behavior, but it seems rather odd that he won’t come out full force in support of the one man who has rebuilt the integrity of the franchise.
by BlazerDavid on Mar 23, 2010 9:29 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
A firing will soon follow...
"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green
by antediluvian on Mar 23, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, but who gets the "drive-by" treatment
To send Ben a message?
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Mar 23, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Nobody's jumping ship on the Cowboys because of Jerry Jones
and there must be another million cases of owners making poor decisions for their business while people continue to patronize them. All the gnasing of teeth over the treatment of Kevin Pritchard is touching, but not strictly necessary. The right big guy however is necessary and we still haven’t got him.
OK, this one I get.
And agree with.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Yeah, I am.
Former Torpedoman’s Mate – strong back, weak mind. I’ll have to show you the calluses on my knuckles from having them always dragging on the ground.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
people are jumping ship on the Redskins because of Dan Snyder
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Mar 23, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
You're just fishing Playboy
As a life-long Skins fan I know your statement to be untrue. Once a Redskin always a Redskin. The only thing Snyder hasn’t gotten is a great quarterback.
You are alriaght.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
As a life long Redskins fan ...
… whose 85 year old dad still has season tickets to, I can say this is an incorrect statement. My dad can’t stand Snyder, but he still gets his tickets and still goes to games.
I am also a Baltimore Orioles fan and while I have often contemplated who glad I would be to hear that their owner had been run over by a bus, I have never waivered in my love of the team. And this is a team that has had 12 losing seasons.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Sad state of affairs...
This whole thing stinks so bad it makes me want to puke. What a terrible distraction for everyone in what has turned out to be a very entertaining season. To see this team fight through so much adversity and still be in the playoffs has been amazing. And now upper management and the Vulcans want to just throw all that out the door and have turned the spotlight away from the team and onto themselves. What a bunch of selfish, power hungry, backstabbing SOB’s. I mean seriously, get your **** together fellas. KP has been a shining light for the fanbase. “In KP we trust” is no joke. To put him through this at this time of the year/season is just ridiculous. It is no wonder Nate wants only 1-year contracts. He knows the business. He’s only as loyal as is immediately needed. I was somewhat alarmed at the comments he made in the recent SI.com article at the end about him being able to just up and leave in two minutes.
That seemed like a bit of foreshadowing at the time I read it and maybe he was alluding to the inner turmoil of the organization…
We'll miss you #2 & #25!
It is no wonder Nate wants only 1-year contracts. He knows the business. He’s only as loyal as is immediately needed. I was somewhat alarmed at the comments he made in the recent SI.com article at the end about him being able to just up and leave in two minutes.
This is kind of ironic, because if McMillian really knew the business he’d have his agent ask for the longest extension possible and have a financial cushion for his family in case circumstances went sideways and he got fired. One possible reason why Nate has been working on 1 year extensions is…that’s all the leeway that he’s been given by the Vulcans (and Mr. Sonic knows that if he gets on Paul’s bad side by going public with it, he’s as good as gone)
If you think about it in that context, his “out of here in 2 minutes” comment makes more sense
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I agree it's a giant mess
and it sure doesn’t appear to be the first mess that originated from the Vulcan headquarters.
One thing though that I think KP can be criticized for is allowing his agent to throw so much mud at Paul Allen and he management team. That just seems really dumb, especially considering that Paul Allen’s sister runs Vulcan. PA might have taken some of what the agent said personally, don’t you think?
Why would KP even want to come back at this point?
Why would any other good, known-quantity GM either? Who wants to work for an organization like that, where everyone refers to the ruling organization (not a boss, mind you, but rather a ruling mob) as a bunch of nameless power brokers?
The Vulcans? I mean, how long do we have to hear about this faceless entity effing things up? And why does “super smart” Paul Allen keep listening to people who have lost him 1,000 fortunes?
It’s said here and everywhere regularly that Paul Allen is the greatest owner in sports. I’ve said it many times myself. Why do we feel like that? It’s been one train wreck after another.
A damn shame.
An offensive rebound in paragraph form. -Mr. Golliver
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Mar 23, 2010 9:33 AM PDT reply actions
On top of that, why would any free agents going forward want to come here?
I mean, we already have strikes against us for being in a smaller market, in a fish bowl, and being in a crappy weather climate — adding in a management team that runs its team like a lemonade stand owned by 10 spoiled 7-year-olds into that equation isn’t going to help lure high quality free agents our way.
we just blame not being an attractive destination to free agents on the GM, remember?
That’s his fault.
/s
An offensive rebound in paragraph form. -Mr. Golliver
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Mar 23, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Warkentien
Roybot: "Then he said "My girlfriend is from LA." to which I replied "Well then you need to find a new girlfriend."’
by 92wastheyear on Mar 23, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Why would any other good, known-quantity GM either? Who wants to work for an organization like that…?
Because there’s only 30 job opportunities in the whole wild world
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
that's a good point.
An offensive rebound in paragraph form. -Mr. Golliver
by you'vegottomakeyourfreethrows on Mar 23, 2010 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Larry Miller had an incredibly bad performance yesterday
He did not help a bit to back Pritchard. Maybe because he didn’t want to, maybe because he didn’t know how. He did not help to clear up the most pressing questions by the media and fans. For all we know, he’s also just the mask on some unknown face of power, without much influence on the team culture and direction. This is a sad day. The front office suddenly seems pretty aimless and internally conflicted. Again. The only person to change something about that right now is Paul Allen. I’m not sure if he will want to clear things up or just continue to have Miller declare the company line is to “focus on the playoffs” without stating what the plans for later are. But he’s the only one who could. A good leader(ship) publicly and demonstratively backs its people. He could still fire KP at a moments notice should he wish to do so later if by whatever measure he is not satisfied with the results. But until that minute, he has to have his back. Last night, the organization he put in place failed at that.
by Norsktroll on Mar 23, 2010 9:42 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Too many chiefs, not enough Indians.
At least when Whitsitt was here, you basically knew who was in charge.
Blazer Gear
They may have a lot of season ticket holders but the make or break end of this business can be selling Blazer merchandise. Am I about to buy Blazer gear at this point…not so much!!
I believe that one of the only people on this site more pragmatic than myself is Dave.
I have been trying to spin this sitiuation in my mind that makes sense. I almost had myself believing that this was an isolated incident, that the team handled somewhat poorly in the press. After reading Daves’ opinions, I’m actually feeling sick to my stomach. I don’t want to feel bad thoughts about the team I root for again. This situation seems different though. We’ve all been through that. That was just some players acting like most of us would act if we were still 22 years old, and given a few million dollars to go play with. I must quit ranting now. Not making sense. Make this go away!
I'm with you
This situation seems different though. We’ve all been through that. That was just some players acting like most of us would act if we were still 22 years old, and given a few million dollars to go play with.
I can’t rationalize this type of behavior from upper management. Allen,the Vulcans, Miller (maybe, he may also just be a figurehead), Woj and Warketien (again, more speculation) – these are adults behaving like spoiled bratty children. I don’t feel the need to spend money on or support a business enterprise run by scuzzy people who engage in this type of behavior. I really like the players on this team, but if this is how management is doing things, I can turn into a casula fan who enjoys basketball in general rather than support this franchise above all others. I’m truly disgusted.
Free AK1984.
"The two women were of a certain age and were clearly drunk... The only thing that I can get out of this is Why, since all these things happen to me, they couldn’t be two young girls and pretty? :-)" - Rudy Fernandez
KP > PA
by blazeraddict on Mar 23, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
What a Joke
I’m glad Dave put into essay form what I essentially said on one of the KP threads yesterday which is basically this: “this organization is the reason for the constant failures, public mistrust, embarassment, and general perception of incompetence. Basically, we cant get out of our own way, and the fans end up suffering the most”
From the Finals trips in 90-91 all the way up unitl now, the Trailblazers are basically known as a franchise that cant get it done, and always comes up short. While the JailBlazers era and what we have now seem unrelated, its the ownership that is the constant in all of it. The upper levels of ownership just reek of mediocrity and have such poor form when connecting to fans that it is hard to imagine that they will ever get it right. Just think about the B Roy contract negotiations. One of the biggest no-brainers in this teams history and we drag the process through the mud and embarass ourselves once again. And now, during a quasi-renaissance period with the team and fans, the ownership soils everything that had been built up over the past few seasons.
The one guy that effectively turned it around and communicated everything with the fans was KP. Even when things got ugly (Oden going down AGAIN, B Roy’s contract, etc.) KP could explain what was happening and why and at least make you feel like they knew what to do. Paul Allen has none of those skills, and Larry MIller has done nothing in my view to make me think that he could do 1/10th as good of a job as KP has done.
People around the league and sports world always say that Portland has a “small time” mentality and carry a losers stigma. I always resented when people would say such things, but it is the middle-school approach to this situation which makes it hard to argue that those people are wrong.
Like I said…….What a joke
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
How do we fix this?
As everyone has said, excellent commentary Dave. One of the best pieces on this whole mess I’ve read thus far. To your commentary, I can’t add much because I just agree.
After reading the transcripts and watching the video what I’m left wondering is how does this resolve? Seems like The Blazers and Kevin Pritchard have painted themselves in the proverbial corner, As Dave mentioned, at some level I’m just amazed that a professional organization could be so bad at PR choices.
I mean there has been evidence that “somebody” in The Blazer organization isn’t too swift at gauging the rising or lowering tide of public opinion. I’m thinking back to the now fabled threatening E-Mail to the rest of the league about Darius Miles. IMO NOT the work of a genius management. But at least with that mistake, The Blazers were openly threatening other GM’s across the league. With this latest debacle they are covertly and vaguely threatening their own GM….much worse problem.
I don’t know. To be honest I’m tired. And Sports as entertainment isn’t suppose to make you tired. It’s suppose to be “fun” diversion. I really thought we had moved past the years where The Blazers were primarily a local Soap Opera. Were the discussion was based on non-basketball related actions.
Sure this season was tough. Oden, Przybilla, Batum, Fernandez and Brandon Roy all dealing with injuries…..BUT it was “Basketball” tough. We are back to Soap Opera. Instead of “Rise With Us” this season’s slogan just became “Who Shot KP?”….unfortunately I don’t think The Blazers can have a press conference and announce that this has all been a bad dream.
"Mother Nature started this fight, I think it's about time we ended it!"
by Krang on Mar 23, 2010 10:05 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
on the whole fans won't care
They know who KP is, but they know the players more. Say what you want about the management, but they were they were the same people that found KP. This is not the first unpopular move that the organization has made, and it won’t be the last.
OMG I just jizzed in my France
OMGrandpa
by sug on Mar 23, 2010 10:08 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
disagree
If KP goes, I’m guessing that a lot of people wont let it go unless we experience some BIG TIME success. And with the team we have without KP as GM, I dont see that as a realistic expectation
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
Success won't matter to me
this whole handling of affairs has left a bad taste in my mouth. I absolutely 100% will turn away from the blazers if it’s shown that the old rot is still there from the Jailblazer days.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
I too disagree...
In my opinion, KP is well known in Portland and is viewed very positively by the fan base….they know who cleaned up the previous mess.In fact, I think KP has a “following” in Portland that is unrivaled by any GM in any other sport.
"I'm a man, but I can change.....if I have to......I guess." - Red Green
by antediluvian on Mar 23, 2010 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Your probably right about his following
At the same time the group is around 2k to 5k strong. The majority of fans don’t care. I am a lifelong Blazer fan and I don’t really care. I am a.season ticket holder as well. KP got a little too big for his britches and now he is paying the price. He ditched his wife once the success came, and grabbed a younger gal to celebrate. Overall I give KP a “B” on his GMing, and a “F” on his self-woofing.
OMG I just jizzed in my France
OMGrandpa
by sug on Mar 23, 2010 10:36 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
troll is troll
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Dave, you nailed it.
Just. Nailed. It. I’m not the least bit surprised this got TrueHooped. Thank you.
Baltimore Again
I agree with Dave, but there might be a bigger issue here. The team’s front office has struggled since the Glickman era because it’s focus went from passion to hobby. Frankly, there’s a market up North that is starving. They hate us as a rival, but if the Blazers would relocate the feeling would pass. The idea breaks my heart. True Trailblazer fans are born in Oregon and would never switch teams. Fair weather fans belong on the couch.
ewww
Nay-no on the Mavericks. I like what Milwaukie has going on. G State and OKC would be my next choices
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
The intrigues in Atlanta
make the Vulcans look like boy scouts. They are Dallas and dynasty while we are The Office.
i'm pondering OKC or Houston
as I’m a person that has a deep respect for good management.
I’ve been a semi spurs fan for a while, although that was pushed aside with the apparent rise of the blazers back with KP coming on and the Roy/Aldridge move.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
I also just may walk away all together
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Great Analysis, Great Writing
I know many people have already said it, but that was a great piece Dave. Great insight and great writing. Your analytical skills go way beyond basketball. We BlazersEdge readers are truly lucky to have you at the helm.
Food for thought
Seattle Supersonics Part Deux? Alienate your fans, move your team to a city where you already have valuable assets, which by the way, would really like an NBA team?
If you have nothing constructive to say about someone, I prefer that you say nothing at all.
"If Jumping to conclusions, Kicking others when they do not do well and Launching into senseless tirades were Olympic Events, some people around here would be Medal Contenders". Me
The problem with that theory is the numbers don't work at all.
At least if Seattle is the market you want to move to.
It would cost Allen somewhere in the range of a half billion dollars to move the team. He would have to buy out (or continue paying on) the Rose Garden lease. He would also have to pay for a brand new arena. Without a new arena, there will be no NBA team in Seattle.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Anyone else read this
hoping that Paul Allen will also find his way to Blazer’s Edge to read this excellent critique? Same as with the team, social dynamics end up being just as important as the talent you field on the floor. In the case of Vulcan, there seems to be a deficit in leadership that enables some poor decision making.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
or
Vulcan Inc manages over 50 companies, I would imagine that takes more than a deficit in leadership, regardless or how we assume they are doing with the Blazers
In the end, I just want Portland to win.
I’m waiting to hold judgment for now until it has a domino effect with losses. All I can do is root for my team and look forward to the playoffs which are not far off. Hope we can move up to 6th or the 7th spot which I think is a good posibility. Would love to play the lakers and beat them but in a later round and don’t want Utah. So I like the 6th or 7th spot as real possilbilties. I like our team and KP had a big part in creating it. There are a lot of what if scenarios with if we had this player or that in past deals but everyting is hindsight now. It is kind of discouraging to know that a group “the Vulcans” have a great deal of sway in the Blazers if this is true which i’m sure it is. Just the name speaks for itself.
Here is to the playoffs and plenty of glasses of wine!!
Meh
Dave, great write-up, fabulous wordsmithing as usual. I think you truly are the biggest and most devoted fan on this site. While perhaps not on par with your fandom, I do personally consider myself a lover of the Blazers. But where we differ (and it would seem where I diverge with all of the commentators as well) is that I don’t really care what’s taking place within this amorphous organization of the Blazers. I’m about the players. I’m about watching a sporting event and leaving it at that. I will admit that I do like this incarnation of the Blazers slightly more do to their “good guy” nature, but their inherent skills and talent are what draw me. I loved Sheed, Bonzi and that team because they were good. I was entertained, and rooted for a winning team on the court. Off the court I went about my life and they did theirs as well. Why should I be concerned what is happening behind closed doors of upper management? Seriously, why should this concern me? We’ve had one of the most successful franchises in sports, constantly reaching the playoffs and assembling good teams. When that changes due to a management breakdown, then I may become interested. Does Kevin Pritchard really deserve $800,000 for what he does? Is he developing a cure for cancer? Give me a team of good basketball players flying the banner of Portland Oregon and I’m happy.
Now, on a tangential rant, what really does concern me in this management vein is our head coach. Good teams, ultimately championship teams have incredible coaches. Let’s just say I don’t come anywhere near to having this view of Nate. And, neither do many basketball fans I talk to. So my parting shot, aside from I don’t care about what exec got fired from what position, is if you have love for Nate McMillan, please please tell me in concrete specific words, exactly What he does that makes him a good coach. I called into a show on 95.5 and asked this very question, asking media people close to Nate. I received a whole bunch of vague, flowery appraisals about leadership and discipline. Nothing specific. Anyways, I was just wondering everyone’s take on it out there.
Another view
I sometimes worry that this new era marks The End of Nuance.
The nuanced view simply isn’t bold, vivid and clear enough—and doesn’t attract as many eyeballs. In with the eyeballs, out with the nuance.
This leads to the view that something about this incident must be utterly and unquestionably wrong. In this case, that becomes the timing: management should have waited.
This assumes that there are no set of circumstances under which Penn’s immediate dismissal was justified. But there are; there are grounds for immediate dismissal in any organization. The reasons for them are ethical and moral, and if you follow ethical and moral principles only when it advantageous, then they aren’t principles at all.
We say the timing is bad. The timing is never good. But what is very bad timing in many cases is not acting immediately.
We’re nearing the conference finals. We have a draft coming. We need Penn, or at least need not to fire him now. There can be no good explanation.
Yes. there can be.
As to Pritchard’s status, he certainly seems to have done an exemplary job; we’ve got some great young talent. They play well, represent us well. But at this site, we seem to have elevated Pritchard to a status beyond what any man deserves. He’s human, he’s good, he’s flawed.
There may be perfectly good reasons for looking elsewhere at this point. Among others, Pritchard may be the equivalent of the perfect start up guy who is less valuable, and even less interested, in nurturing a mature enterprise. Pritchard seems to have flourished in the swap two, get better quick environment. That isn’t the situation now. And perhaps KP, for all his skill, lacks something that makes him much less attractive as an employee.
Can we know that that is not the case? And how can we know?
I’ve gone on too long.
I really like the Blazers. I’ve learned not to become infatuated with large groups of men, however, on what seems good and well-founded principles. But I do struggle with the idea that the same management that presided over our rise from the ashes is a group of bumbling incompetents; the evidence on the floor seems to refute that completely,
Hulk (high school nickname; not the name you'd expect for a decent marathoner.)
The evidence on the floor says little of the management's competence.
We know KP, Penn, Nate, Born, and co. did a good job of building a successful team. The only good move we know upper-management made was hiring Nate and KP. And we don’t know what their motives are. This may be more about ego than wins. One of the competing stories out there is that KP has grown too successful and powerful and others want to cut him down and take the credit. That’s certainly plausible. And the notion that upper-management would let its ego outweigh the good of the team is strongly supported by the Miles letter Miller sent out last year.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
you sound like a vulcan
Re: Rudy Gaye "His athleticism allows him to remove himself from plays better than anyone I’ve seen in a while" - as11osu
optimistic foam
brandon is going to shut this whole thing up singlehandedly in the playoffs. none of this is going to matter when we make it to the2nd round
Dave
I am mostly a lurker here on blazersedge but have to thank you for this wonderful piece of thoughtful writing. Like many have said here and before “You are a well reasoned and temperate” thinker. You teach as well as joke. Good job.
Ask if Pritchard's
difficulties are a sign that the assumptions Pritchard’s been working on with respect to player assessment are now being questioned by the organization. I wonder if something didn’t happen at that statistics conference, probably something Pritchard and Penn thought was inconsequential (if they thought any thing at all about what they were saying would get management upset) that tipped management over the edge.
I wonder about what we don't know.
there have been enough ennuendo about GM’s not wanting to trade with portland for me to take it seriously. I wonder about trades that never happened or couldn’t get off the ground. That is almost a good enough reason to part with Pritchard from an ownership point of view. I mean we didn’t move Lafrentz and looking at the Haywood deal I feel we could have given just as strong or better deal then the Mav’s. Just a thought.
I've wondered why
if everyone keeps saying Allen isn’t afraid to spend money why the organization was afraid to go after Haywood.
The price was Batum and Rudy and/or Bayless
Plus cap relief (Outlaw and Blake). For Butler and Haywood.
History will say whether it would have been a good move or not, but right now it sounds like we would be getting robbed.
Instead we robbed the Clips.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Mar 23, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
While I never would have wanted to give up Batum,
If Dallas (by some miracle of good play, luck, and synergy) win the Western Conference, I might change my mind.
camby is and was great but...
had we picked up a big man months ago we wouldnt be fighting for an 8th seed
by Captain fruit on Mar 23, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
That seems like a lot of future
To give up to move out of the 8th seed.
Just an opinion though; As I said earlier, the future will dictate the wisdom of not pulling the trigger.
by TheThinWhiteDuke on Mar 23, 2010 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I am still waiting for all the people who claim ...
… Pritchard can’t pull the trigger on trades or has put himself into a position that no one will trade with him to consider offering up some proof.
The only two instances where there seems to be even the slightest bit of evidence of Pritchard having a deal available and turning it down was with Vince Carter and later Richard Jefferson. The Del Harris deal appeared to be almost exclusively wishfull thinking on the part of Blazer fans. I never heard any realistic rumblings that Portland had anything Washington wanted (and we would have been willing to see be given up) to acquire Haywood.
The reality is that KP made the right call in not trading for either Carter or Jefferson, if those deals were in fact available and he did manage to acquire a veteran center (who is arguably a better fit in Portland than Haywood) for players he copuld afford to give up.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
part of the issue there
is that we’ll never really know.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
We do know
Miller told us. Philosophical differences. This has to be some effort on management to change philosophy, i.e., not Pritchard’s way of doing things (all of the time anyway). A message to players and coach that everyone is expendable.
I blame Andre Miller
because nobody else has yet
by AverageJon on Mar 23, 2010 12:53 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I know he's involved
I just haven’t been able to nail down the evidence.
Andre Miller is an Anachronism
One more time for Andre,
and he should be done! Done, Done, Done!
He is the reason we did not get CP3. He is the reason we did not get Durant. And he is the one in in the shadows of Vulcan headquarters!
21+52=
Maybe Allen wanted to make a play
for LeBron, Wade or Bosh and Penn handled it clumsily, KP went ballistic when he found out and then told management that Wade, LeBron, Bosh are fools gold for the organization and that was it—you’re out’a here!
This sounds like...
The Young and the Restless… All My Children… General Hospital all rolled into one!
I really think this post…and the ensuing responses… read WAY too much into this and quite possibly ecacerbate the situation. It’s almost like the majority of Blazer Nation wants to have a problem or indescretion to fall back on in case the team turns back into Mr. Hyde.
I know that people will say I am hiding my head in the sand and that the enormous fissure in the organization is obvious to anyone with their eyes open. To that I would respond… There are enough real problems in the world. Sports are a distraction… entertainment… not life or death.
So I will continue to support the team that is put on the floor each night and let my naive old self believe that I don’t know everything about the inner workings of the Blazers because I read some stuff about them that says it’s bad… REALLY BAD…
I am sure this is not a popular stance to take but I really feel like having this team under such a huge microscope at all times is too much… Try to relax and enjoy some of life.
totally understand your perspective
it’s not mine, but I understand it.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
After reading the rumor section on ESPN
I see that maybe Miller had contact with his pal Warkenstien, Penn and KP’s agent got wind, and maybe Penn, Pritchard, or both of them went over Miller’s head to clarify their position’s and they got clarified.
Another well-written piece Dave
I haven’t read the comments since they were in the 180’s so I don’t know if this has already been proposed, but…
Someone needs to bring the following sign to the next home game: Save Kevin. (kinda like the “Save Ferris” things from Ferris Bueller’s Day Off
Blazers win!
"(Andre Miller) got a steal of a Brandon Rush pass in the backcourt and with a clear path to the hoop looked like he was actually going to dunk it with those 64-year-old legs. I believe that in true Darryl Dawkins fashion he was going to dub it the Miller-Time Pop-Top Rammin' Jammin' That's-For-TiH-and-his-Spammin' Thunderdawg Special. Unfortunately it got blocked. He did get to go to the line off the play at least. So he settled for calling the free throws "TiH Cheap Shots"." - Dave after a 102-79 beatdown of the Indiana Pacers
Trust
Yesterday …..I spent the morning expounding on the position that we don’t know what is really going on. This was met by many with the refrain “where there is smoke there is fire” and “look at all the reports ….there has got to be something going on!!”. I made the point yesterday that I didn’t (and still don’t) trust the reporters who were writing the stories. I felt they were just muck raking and trying to stir up something that just wasn’t there. During KP and Miller’s presser, nothing really more came out…other than KP’s veiled assertion that outside agitators were making untrue allegations about him. And as far as Miller’s statements go….there was no real reassurances regarding KP’s status. After the press conference, I stayed at about the same place, opinion-wise. A bunch of anonymous crap from untrustworthy writers with a personal ax to grind (either directly or by proxy). However ….I wasn’t liking KP’s body language or enthusiasm. So basically I was in a “wait and see” pattern….that we don’t even know what is going on and there is no use in speculating until we do. That is how I felt…that is until this morning…..this morning something different happened. Dave wrote this piece. I now am beginning to think I was wrong yesterday….not my argument…that was correct….A-woj is just a mouthpiece for Warkentien and spewing a load of crap about a better person than him (them). But I was wrong ….something is going on here …and it is bad..and might not be repairable. This is a crying shame. Why the change of heart? Someone I trust ….someone who I know is evenhanded ….who has shown nothing but integrity…is seriously worried about this situation. That is the one thing that has changed. This isn’t Woj…or Clownzano….this is Dave.
What’s worse is that I feel pretty powerless about it….the one powerful thing I had going to show my displeasure was my season tix. This all came down after I had already renewed my tix. It was a hard decision anyway….my family’s financial situation has changed and this was a purchase that will have a significant impact on the budget. I will tell you right now…..if this had come down before I had renewed ...I would not have done so. The reason why also has to do with trust. I don’t trust Paul Allen….I don’t trust Larry Allen….and I don’t trust the Vulcans. I do trust Kevin Pritchard. It is as simple as that. If they fire KP, they better have a very compelling reason and not just some junk about philosophical differences either. If I am not satisfied….I will do everything in my power to get out of paying for or using those tickets…and explaining why at every turn.
Roybot: "Then he said "My girlfriend is from LA." to which I replied "Well then you need to find a new girlfriend."’
by 92wastheyear on Mar 23, 2010 3:09 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Of all the posts on this topic, yours is the one that needs to go to Blazer management.
I think we all thought they had finally gotten it when the named KP as GM, hired Nate as coach and stressed the importance of character. An emphasis that proved to be more than lip service based on what we saw and heard every day from the players, the coach and the GM.
Now this assumption is being called into question. And your post should drive the message home to whomever is in charge that if they really do want to reconnect with Portland fans in the way they once did, they are way off target at the moment.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
It might be time to send another email
The last one I sent was shortly before the ownership vote to allow the Sonic’s move OKC. PA did the right thing then
Roybot: "Then he said "My girlfriend is from LA." to which I replied "Well then you need to find a new girlfriend."’
by 92wastheyear on Mar 23, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Message to KP: Don't take this insult from management -- Resign!
If KP can take credit for BROY over Foye, Aldridge over Gay, and Batum over any of the draft picks from 5-30, the other GM’s in the league know it and he’ll have a job at double the salary within a year.
If you let them push you around, you’ll never have a moment’s peace or any independence in decision making.
Huh?
I don’t like seeing one of my favorite Blazer guys get pushed around. KP preaches “team” and “unity” but it looks like he is not receiving the consideration a teammate deserves.
Good piece, Dave
One thing you leave unsaid, though: there’s no mystery what the source of the festering problem with the Portland Trailblazers is. In any organization, the tone is set by and the ultimate responsibility lies with the person at the top. In the case of the Blazers, that’s Paul Allen.
We’ve heard it said so many times: “Paul Allen is the greatest owner in sports.” And he certainly has been willing and able to spend money with the best of them. But Jason Quick revealed the team’s dirty secret in his radio interview yesterday: that those affirmations are lip service, spoken by employees fearful of losing their jobs at the whim of an insecure, hot-tempered owner.
We thought the “Jailblazer” era was over. But its true architect is still calling the shots, and he clearly is still the same person he was back in the “bad old days.” The “accidental billionaire” would seem to be an “infant terrible”: unloved and unlovable, throwing temper tantrums when his ego isn’t stroked 24/7. We fans are left to wonder whether a sports team owned by such a person is worth investing so much of our time, money, & passion in.
I was born in '52, and I believe in #52. Hang in there, GO.
You too, Przy: everyone knows you're the heart & soul of the Blazers.
by hurryup09 on Mar 23, 2010 3:36 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
pretty much
We have battled the symptoms, but havent cured the disease.
That “greatest owner” garbage was never believable. We have a rich owner, thats it.
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
REC
Free AK1984.
"The two women were of a certain age and were clearly drunk... The only thing that I can get out of this is Why, since all these things happen to me, they couldn’t be two young girls and pretty? :-)" - Rudy Fernandez
KP > PA
by blazeraddict on Mar 23, 2010 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know about Penn/Pritchard, but . . .
Wharry Miller is a moron !! He’s the face/spokesmouth for the
ANTI-Blazermanic deal with his buddies from PHILLY at COINCAST !!
Of course, he’s also the author of the famous mouthing, "We’re going to
take the Blazer Brand GLOBAL " What a IDIOT !! He can’t even keep lifetime
fans in Oregon connected to the team with cable games. Great job Wharry !!
It's GO time !
Well in terms of global branding
our leadership is about as transparent as the Chinese government. That’s what we call synergy! Isn’t that right Larry – “Uh, um, global brand, monitor the situation, chuckle chuckle”
blazeraddict – drinking the Vulcan kool-aid since NEVER. IN KP WE TRUST. PA, you’re still the same dork at Lakeside who creeped everybody out, wanted to sit at the cool table (havean uncle who used to pick on him back in the day, probably not the best move for the pocket book but he’s not a socially stunted weirdo, so all in all it’s a win), and your contribution to Microsoft was your mom’s basement.
(we can ad hom rich people right)
Free AK1984.
"The two women were of a certain age and were clearly drunk... The only thing that I can get out of this is Why, since all these things happen to me, they couldn’t be two young girls and pretty? :-)" - Rudy Fernandez
KP > PA
by blazeraddict on Mar 23, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Excellent, excellent write up.
Dave,
Your skills of articulation are extraordinary. I didn’t listen to KP, but I read his words and saw the picture and I felt incredibly sad for him. You broke down the Blazers’ treatment of him wonderfully. And yes, it comes off in a very cold manner. What’s in Paul Allen’s head to publicly display his vote of no-confidence in this manner? Especially to a guy he’s sat next to for many games and seasons together? It’s disturbing. KP is kinda coming off like Tom Cruise in Jerry Maguire…
Man this would be a better time for those pictures of Greg to come out
I wish more of the coverage of this BASKETBALL team would look at the game itself instead of this drama that gets readers and ratings. Front office politics are boring I want to see crossovers and dunks….. This would have been a way better time for those pics of Greg to come out.
Did you say this would be a good time for Greg to come out of the closet?
Was he the one in the rumor involved with Larry Miller?
Well, that would trump any of my crazy made-up stories.
Actually, I do think this may be about Penn calling out the org. on trading Steve Blake after making a no-trade promise…
what do they mean by “philosophy”?
I think this thread wasn't necessary!
You know what, I’m not even going to read any of the comments. Reading Dave’s original post was bad enough.
From where I sit, I think this issue is about as much our business as Tiger’s sex life. Pure junk. What I care about is that the players comport themselves with a reasonable amount of good judgement, play as hard as they can, and represent the city well. What these highly paid execs. do to each other isn’t my concern. Sure, on a personal level, I don’t like to see anyone get the shaft. I have no idea if that’s what happened in this case.
I think we’re damned lucky to have one major league team in this town given the lack of political leaders and “keep Portland weird” types that seem to rule Portland.
Let me be clear on this-I DO care about how the players behave themselves. I DON’T care about how these execs. do their thing-unless it’s something immoral, illegal, or fattening. Even then, it’s probably none of our business.
Please, everyone, get a life.
I do agree
that it is not our business, but this is the nature of Blazer fans – we’re much more deeply involved than most. Every quote, every movement has to be dissected, discussed, and discarded. To most fans the events of the past few days has been a blow. Had it happened in probably all other NBA cities it would have been shrugged off, but not in Portland.
At some point you have to acknowledge the elephant in the room. Even if the elephant doesn’t belong there.
Just tossing another possibility into the discussion
Perhaps Allen has been given a medical timeline e.g. “you have no more than 18 months left”. As someone above stated, the Blazers have been a hobby . If his time is indeed limited maybe he has started a “championship NOW” campaign. Perhaps he has ordered Pritchard to dump “the big three/four” and go after LeBron and/or anyone else that has a better chance of bringing him (not us) a championship next year. KP’s defeated body language may be because he is going to have to do something he does not want to do, something that will alienate fans and perhaps ruin his career. He might resign rather than do that – which would explain his wanting to be here, loving it here, quotes. He wants to be with “his” guys and grow the championship but now the rug has been pulled from under him and he is suffering.
In KP We Trust
Is it now dead?
Is the face that has launched a thousand ships of hope and support for the Blazers’ fans to be no more?
Shall we deem the Blazers once again bankrupt of integrity?
Sorry, Dave. Your writing and analysis is brilliant. But losing KP is not promising for me as to the future of the Blazers. Just as we need Brandon and Greg to win a championship we need KP to continue the pipeline of players to support them within the culture created by KP. We need KP to maintain that bridge of trust between the organization and the people. The organization can have its secrets so long as KP is with it and with us. When he does not trust the organization then neither can I.
Maybe that is what the problem is: KP knows the organization needs him to keep us and has leveraged that improperly. But the need is still there and Dave’s points are exactly right – deal with it in private and keep the trust.
Sad – so sad. The human condition strikes again. The facade cracks roof to ground laying bare the ugly pipes and wires within. So we wait for the greater damage to the foundation to be revealed and hope the entire building does not have to be condemned.
"Their length," he said. "Aldridge is a tough matchup for us. Roy's a very talented ball player, an All-Star player. Miller is just an incredibly savvy point guard with what he's able to do out there on the floor. You throw in their shooters who have size and are able to see over things. They understand where they are as a ball club." - Kurt Rambis
SEND VULCAN A MESSAGE
Great stuff here! Started a facebook group that has “Pritchard’s Back”
Join it and help me try to make the Vulcans fear us (33 and counting)
Dear Everyone
um , wow. These comments aside
from a few rational are absurd . How many are ready to dip out on this team? A lot
it seems and that is a shame.
All fans of the Blazers know , HAVE to know Vulcan is shady- they’ve been like this
for ever. As Dave said, their
actions such as this “pritchard/Penn” debacle are not new, they have issues: duh. If u don’t know Vulcan until today , you’ve been
around since 2007, and I’ll
call u a bandwagoner and u don’t count in respect to this comment.
So why throw in the towel
now ?
Are the players less
worthy of our cheers ? No. will we
not wait anxiously for the day Oden returns ? No. Next season, when they healthy, well all be here ,
cheering right?
Well you better, because we
love the Blazers, and no amount of upper ownerships drama bs should change that.
the team is
still my favorite and I’ll never stop caring, no matter what. If
that is foolish then fine. But
we shouldn’t be ready to abandon this team , not because of this.
Sophia
The Princess of Blazersedge
Twitter.com/sophiabiabia Follow Me!!!
" It just takes an iron fist to keep the riff raff under control and her princess hand is mad strong" - Idoltime
by BlazerFan1 on Mar 23, 2010 9:54 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
synchronicity?
eerily similar post….heh
by pistil_stamen on Mar 23, 2010 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions
While I appreciate your fandom, I dont think you are understanding the source of all this anger/frustration
This all has to do with the loss of hope and for what we wanted things to be. See, with Oden, each injury stung, but KP was always there to make us feel like he had a plan.
And as much as any player on the court, many of us feel that KP is just as responsible for getting us to these good times again. The RG is fun, the players are good, the coach is tough, and our GM is smart and can make miracles happen. WE HAD A PLAN. We could be completely satisfied with a 41-41 season because we knew KP had a plan and we got to be along for the ride.
What this situation represents is an eventual fall back to 2003 within 5 years. Where the ownership sucked, the GM picked bad players, the good players we had were shipped off, and the constant cycle of trades left us as just another mediocre team with no hope of a championship in sight and a draft pick somewhere between 12-17 EVERY YEAR. Ever look at 75% of the arenas across the league? That was Portland not that long ago, and KP was the one who brought us back. And if ownership is dumb enough to get rid of the guy that brought us all back, then what are the chances that they make the right moves to bring Portland a parade?
Thats what this is all about.
Ball handling and dribbling are my strongest weaknesses."—David Thompson
by Benson on Mar 23, 2010 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
+92
Rudy: ""McMillan has a philosophy of play and I don´t not think that will change by giving him a hug."’
by 92wastheyear on Mar 23, 2010 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you have your numbers skewed.
Sure there are some here who are talking about how this might end their belief in the Blazers, but there are always folks here who tend to over react. For the most part what I’m seeing – other than side arguments over Oden / Durant – are people who are confused and disappointed with what is happening and worried what it might mean for the team they support.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Abandon the team? No
But temper my enthusiasm with the knowledge that Paul Allen and his crew are even more dark and dysfunctional than feared? Yes, definitely. After this affair, the veil has been lifted and denial is no longer possible.
I’m not going to be Charlie Brown, eternally having the football pulled away by Lucy—or, in this case, the “accidental billionaire” and his royal leeches.
I love this group of players. I love their coach and GM. But I now realize that they’re all here today and gone tomorrow—literally. I’m only willing to invest so much of myself in a love affair like that.
I was born in '52, and I believe in #52. Hang in there, GO.
You too, Przy: everyone knows you're the heart & soul of the Blazers.
Seriously?
This is my first post here, I’m a total lurker, but I feel compelled to respond based on some of the responses I’ve read…I apologize in advance for my saltiness.
So, I’m reading through posts from Trail Blazer “fans” here talking of bailing out and rooting for Golden State, Dallas or Oklahoma City ???? Maybe it’s because I grew up on the east coast, but how the hell can you call yourself a fan of this team if you are willing to jump ship based on some stupid decisions made by the front office? Not only that, but Oklahoma City??? Hell, the L*kers put together a pretty good team year in and out, maybe there is still room on that bandwagon…
No, I wasn’t here in the 90’s and early 2000’s…so I don’t have that perspective…but I do know how to stick with a team no matter how grim things look and no matter how poor the on(and off)-field product is. For better or worse, the people responsible for financing and running this team (probably) aren’t going anywhere. This is YOUR city, this is YOUR team. Eff Oklahoma effing City…I’m sorry, I just can’t believe that fans of this team would be willing to forgo their Trail Blazer allegiance for THAT team? I mean, really, are you kidding me? I’d rather soak my eyes in battery acid than root for the Baltimore Ravens. Go ahead and repeatedly smash my face with a shovel, I’m still not rooting for the Flyers or Capitals. Don’t even get me started on Sid Bream and the Atlanta Braves.
I know that this whole situation has been underhanded, pathetic and disingenuous, but Kevin Pritchard and Tom Penn (thankfully) aren’t lacing them up any time soon. Ultimately, Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge and Greg Oden are going to be here with a talented young Frenchman for many years to come…and last time I checked, they were the one’s actually PLAYING basketball. Yeah it sucks to have the rug pulled out from under you like this, but I can’t reiterate this enough…this is YOUR team. The passion of Trail Blazer fan is remarkable, but walking away when things get rough is weak sauce.
Oklahoma City?!?!?
by pistil_stamen on Mar 23, 2010 9:56 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
welcome to posting
watch the site rules: no effs, or F’s, or any other implied bombs. they moderators are pretty strict about that.
But I agree with most of your post. It just feels good to root for a team that seems good.
I’m trying to figure out where you’re from. Hate Ravens, Flyers, Caps and Braves. A Met fan from New Jersey? But Sid Bream says Bucs fan. And it would explain Raven and Caps hatred (I’m in DC – don’t visit). So Steel City? Perfect analogy: many of us want to feel about the Blazer organization the way Pittsburgh feels about the Rooneys
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Mar 23, 2010 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions
oops...
sorry about the implied profanity…noted.
And, yes…I’m from Pittsburgh. Growing up, I loved the NBA, but never had a team to root for, so when I moved to Portland it was a natural fit to become a fan (even if I moved here right before the 2005-06 season)…I even hated the L*kers already :).
As to your point about the Rooneys, yes, they are the ownership model that nearly all fans of sports franchises hope to emulate. I couldn’t ask for a better organization to be a fan of (even if the vast majority of Steeler fans could be considered part of the missing link and the QB is a bonehead). On the opposite side of the coin is the group running the Pirates…probably some of the most pathetic owners in sports…so I have experienced the good and bad. Unlike the Nuttings, Paul Allen wants to win, and is willing to pay to do so…but I do think his allegiance as a fan compromises his ability delegate to people who really know what the hell they are doing.
Nevertheless, it’s nice having a horse in the race, and I foresee being a Blazer fan for life…it’s not hard to get on board with fans like this.
by pistil_stamen on Mar 24, 2010 6:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Man, if fans let stupid owners get in the way of fandom,
then the clippers wouldn’t have anybody show up at their games…
emm, oops…
well, winning does help.
Heh, thanks for jumping in though pistil_stamen and welcome.
When’s the next game?
Has Martell found all his body parts? [Feet, check; arms, check; head, hello?; heart, hello?]
Can’t we all just (agree to not) get along?
Come-on everybody, sing along, close your eyes and pretend:
“WE ARE Fam – A – LEE!”
Except, of course if the owners cancel the games by lock-out: You Don’t Get Another Penny. Ever.
Then again, I’ve rooted against the Dodgers ever since they broke up my team (Garvey, Cey, Lopes), oops correction, used to root against – I don’t bother since I quit baseball fandom.
So, fans will dump teams, over players, so if a change in the GM means dumping popular players, then yes, I guess fans will turn and walk away. Its not the fans who kill teams. Would I be rooting the same for Sheed, Zack, and AI?
Just goes to show, its all an emotional thing, because why else would you care about men playing ball games?
Somebody, for some reason, just let the air out of the balloon at the very wrong time. I contend it impacts the players to see this confusion. Fans don’t like owner’s messing up the team mojo. Fans are justifiably unhappy and expressing their displeasure. Cause, you know, if its ALL just about business, I’ll just go do something fun and enjoyable, something that feels good. I don’t have to spend my time, money or interest on this entertainment if the owners / leaders are dishonest jerks – in the absence of a rational explanation the world is left to speculate – and the press conference made it worse. That press conference was almost as bad as the Blake / Outlaw “Welcome to the Clippers” bleeding-ulcer-painful press conference.
Maybe that’s why I keep connecting the two in my mind and coming back around to seeing that Tom Penn called Paul Allen on breaking a no-trade promise to Steve Blake. Why else keep it silent? Penn seeming ready to talk about it…
Why are we even in this situation at this time?
Nate has some work to do to keep the team focused and energized.
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Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Behind the Box Score, where the Boston Celtics are moving on to the conference finals
- NBA Playoffs Fan Fiction: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
- The Indiana Pacers? Gone till November
- Shaquille O’Neal is in a Chinese beer commercial, too (VIDEO)
- ‘Deep Thoughts’ and Cheap Thoughts: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
