Canzano: Vulcans Behind Penn Firing, Penn was Offered by Minnesota
John Canzano quotes the agent for Tom Penn and Kevin Pritchard pointing an accusatory finger at the Vulcans...
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"They can't do Kevin in the middle of the season, but they can do a drive-by on someone close to him," said Warren Legarie, the agent for Penn and Pritchard. "But guess who would be next?"
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That the potential firing of Kevin Pritchard, something that would have been unthinkable yesterday, is even being discussed today reinforces how strange this story has become.
This is what agents do, though, go to bat for their clients and help win the aftermath, shifting the discussion. Kudos to Legarie for publicly standing up for both of his clients: one who just lost his job among confusing circumstances and the other who just lost his right hand man and is likely a little dazed.
Put simply, the argument for firing Kevin Pritchard on basketball grounds just doesn't exist. His systems, his understanding, his personality and his relationships with players all matter. It's difficult to believe, even in the wake of an out-of-left-field firing, that Pritchard's job is in any real jeopardy, especially in the short term.
Perhaps the biggest piece of news in this article is the verification that Penn was officially made an offer by the Timberwolves. That should help answer some of the questions raised about Penn's honesty.
-- Ben Golliver | benjamin.golliver@gmail.com | Twitter
PS Good job DrScience in the FanShots, who got there first.
almost 2 years ago
Ben Golliver
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What the heck does it matter whether they did or didn't offer?
People use other opportunities as leverage all the time. It’s what you DO when millions are on the table.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
just saying, if someone seriously took issue with that
then they’re huge hypocrites.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
third
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Yes, but you don't get points for being consistent in buisness
If they decided to fire him, they decided. The Blazers brass has been excellent the last few years, and I don’t see much point in assigning blame when hardly anyone knows what went down unless it impacts the basketball end of things.
Oh, taking the high road are we?
Enjoy. It’s a lonely stretch.
Seeking whimsy
by Y5k on Mar 17, 2010 9:53 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Agree 100%
If that is the reason Penn was let go, then shame on the organization. Front office personnel and coaches go through the interview process all the time (it’s an indicator of a healthy organization – just look how many teams have a member of the Spur tree on thier bench/in the office). Even in what has been a great era of good feelings over the past few years, the Vulcans still remind us that they do things a bit differently from time to time…
Free AK1984.
"The two women were of a certain age and were clearly drunk... The only thing that I can get out of this is Why, since all these things happen to me, they couldn’t be two young girls and pretty? :-)" - Rudy Fernandez
by blazeraddict on Mar 17, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions
ive often said that....
i think paul allens health will make him less patient. he is making drastic moves in seattle and making tons of questionable moves. Now it seems its coming down here
by HurricaneDayne on Mar 17, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Impossible - although Whitsit, Bonzi and Rider returning and running KP and Brandon
out of town would officially make me believe the real world has become pro wrestling
Free AK1984.
"The two women were of a certain age and were clearly drunk... The only thing that I can get out of this is Why, since all these things happen to me, they couldn’t be two young girls and pretty? :-)" - Rudy Fernandez
by blazeraddict on Mar 17, 2010 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions
idk about that
but i still think whitsitt can be a top GM in the league. his trading skills with PA’s checkbook could do wonders.
That totally exploded and ended in mediocrtity.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
think of it in terms of "stages"
KP and McMillian were the “right” guys to rebuild the franchise/roster
but will they be the right guys to bring the championship back to Portland?
we’ve had a lot of debates about Nate’s ability to win in the post season, but since KP has the “slap-happy…walks on water” rep he’s been the teflon man. I’m not saying he’s not doing a good job, but perhaps the feeling up at Mercer Island is that he’s taken the basketball operation as far as it can go and the front office needs a new baker. KP preaches loyalty, but that doesn’t mean he’s been getting it from above
All we know is, it wasn’t Kevin’s decision to fire Penn. If the Allen-Pritchard relationship has cooled (no more long talks on the cell phone, etc) then that could possibly explain why KP has been less “out front” with the local media, this season
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
If I am pretty confident about one point this article made....
That the Penn firing really was a shot across KP’s bow. I have never really trusted Paul Allen. Guys with that kind of money cannot have anything but HUGH ego’s. This team does not need another GM PA lapdog with a bunch of blank checks in his fist… ala – Whitsitt. Man o man I sure hope that isn’t the case here….
Hugh has an ego problem, does he?
At least he’s rich.
I know less than half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
by haildablazer on Mar 18, 2010 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions
How do we know?
How do we know it was not KP’s decision to fire Penn? Because of what Canzano said? Because of what the agent said? Because of what KP said? It is all about spin. KP may have had a gnawing issue with TP that was forwarded up the ladder. No one knows. I hate Canzano for creating this.
You could have stopped at....
……. I hate Canzano.
by upper left corner on Mar 18, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
even if he is less patient,
how is firing one of your best employees going to make things better?
and if the vulcans cause the firing of KP, i swear to BRoy that I will hunt them down and commit crimes that cant be said on this site
UNREAL
If they fire KP, after building the team back to being respectable and with a winning culture, it’ll be the last straw with most fans.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
Unreal is the likely word....
Canzano, the attention whore, stirring the pot. He is a cancer; good at what he does, but what he does is not good.
by upper left corner on Mar 18, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Of course an agent would say this
Their job is to get the people they represent more money or better jobs.
He is doing this to make people think KP might be available. If he gets an offer the blazers have to respond.
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
Could you imagine the scene if KP left
There might be an actual riot
Free AK1984.
"The two women were of a certain age and were clearly drunk... The only thing that I can get out of this is Why, since all these things happen to me, they couldn’t be two young girls and pretty? :-)" - Rudy Fernandez
by blazeraddict on Mar 17, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I would be in it
It would absurd to let the man responsible for rebuilding the franchise to what it is today go at this point. He’s done so much and is very passionate about the team and doing what’s right for it so who would be better?
It’s not his fault that Hedo bailed at the last minute, not to mention worked out better as we have Andre who’s more what we need anyways. And Milsap, well, Utah wanted him more and who’s to say that if the situation were reversed KP wouldn’t have done the same thing and matched the offer. There was a danger that would happen and it happened and he moved on. When we lost both of our centers he got Camby who’s working out just fine and the team managed to hold onto the 8th seed before we got Camby. How many other teams would have just folded in the same circumstance, but the team KP built didn’t, they fought … hard.
It would be a mistake to let KP go … another team would snatch him up and he’d build another team up that would destroy us.
I think PA is smart enough to know KP is very importand to the Blazer organization and to the fans.
I for one would probably bail on the Blazers if they dumped KP. And think JConzano is just stirring the pot with speculation that KP’s job/back is in jeapordy.
I hope you're right
Because if someone else comes in and implodes the team as we know it (I know, it’ll change a bit before next season regardless but I’m talking the core players) I’ll be bailing too. I mean, I won’t bail on basketball but may have a new team or two I’m rooting for and will only go to the RG to see those teams wearing their jerseys. It will just be too heartbreaking to see what someone else who doesn’t care will do. I want to see us win a championship just as much as everyone else does and I really think it can be done with the core players we have and we wouldn’t have them without KP. Man, this has been a rough season!
You might be right, but I doubt the idea is generating offers from other teams...
The idea that the team might fire KP is generating a lot of anger among the PDX fan base. If the story that KP tried to get a new deal and was told to go fish is true, then this might be a great play to demonstrate KP’s popularity and value to the team.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
hmmm
is it the gospel truth that Penn was his right hand man? How do we actually know that?
Portland Trail Blazers - where injuries and people come together"
This would be so much easier to comprehend if there was a sex tape involved
Andre Miller is an Anachronism
Tom's VCR is ready I'm sure. :)
I am Spartacus and I approved this message
by EngineerScotty on Mar 17, 2010 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions
He's an old fashioned guy
I am Spartacus and I approved this message
by EngineerScotty on Mar 17, 2010 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
i'm sure there'd be lots of Pritchslapping in that video
by In Walks Rudy on Mar 17, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
If there is a tape of
Tom being fired, that would count as sex (in jail)
by blazinagain on Mar 17, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Indeed...I wouldn't trust Canzano as far as I can kick him into the Columbian...
KP is safe…Nate, well, let’s see how he does in the playoffs and we’ll talk.
"I think he’s been doing some good things. I think he’s been doing some good things. He’s had to play a lot of minutes lately with Blake being out. I think he’s been doing some good things." -Nate McMillan
As someone who has often questioned Nate's coaching ability at both in game play and developing tallent
I’d be willing to give up KP to get a championship quality coach.
Andre Miller is an Anachronism
I don't think that trade is legal....
not to mention, unnecessary.
Unless someone in the front office has gone all Donald Sterling, and doesn’t want to pay the $ for both.
But if you want a lousy GM and a good coach, Riley might be available….
I am Spartacus and I approved this message
by EngineerScotty on Mar 17, 2010 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Popovich? Sure
but I doubt RC Buford would call that an “even” trade. And I’m not giving them Batum
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Canzano has never been right about anything
The world will continue to turn. KP has nothing to worry about, and the fans will likely never know the real reason of Penn’s firing.
Penn got offered the job in Minnesota, unless his agent can't just influence people in the Blazers media and their contacts, but also Wolves beat writers and their contacts to say things that aren't happening. Which seems hard for me to believe.
Zgoda, kind of the Wolves version of Quick:
From everything I’m hearing, Tom Penn is signed, sealed and delivered (or at least completely agreed to, give me some poetic license for the Stevie Wonder reference). I’m guessing a Tuesday press conference, just hours before the team learns its draft lottery fate.
I’m still not completely positive the McHale situation is decided. I’d think they’d want to do this once, call a press conference and lay out their new head guy, new top personnel guy (Hoiberg) and their coaching situation.
But knowing the Wolves they could announce Penn and Hoiberg with their new titles and say the coaching situation is TBD by the new boss
but it didn't happen...
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Mar 17, 2010 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions
paul allen! while your in the firing mood
Fire jay jensen while your at it.
On game day, I leave the turkey alone because it is some chemicals in that thing. Nate Mcmillian 11/26/09
by slim503 on Mar 17, 2010 4:43 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Penn and Tell
Haven’t we been told for years how much Paul loves the draft time of year…..the fact that any one is drafted without Pauls’ blessing is hard for me to believe…firings usually don’t happen on the spot…they are planned,they usually are not a surprise to the person fired and if a company wants to protect themselves they have all their i’s dotted and their "t"s crossed…I am a payroll person and 9 out of 10 times I know before you that you are gonna be fired…It is out of left field for us….but not for the organization…we has human beings make a conscience decision to step over a line we know we should not cross,in our life and line of work..but we do it anyway….then we are "surprised"..please…save it…not buying it…with all the past history of the team we default to that line of thought of doom and gloom for our beloved team instead of thinking that it was one employee who HR decided had to go…
Portland Trail Blazers - where injuries and people come together"
Here's an interesting thought
It’s long been assumed that the source of awoj’s KP-bashing has been a rival GM…
…but what if it’s coming from the Vulcans?
I am Spartacus and I approved this message
The guys at
Clips Nation can tell you all about it…
I am Spartacus and I approved this message
by EngineerScotty on Mar 17, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not sure what you are pointing at but there was a nice discussion of how the Clip fans are feeling about Trout and Blake
by Jacksonville on Mar 17, 2010 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Blake gets the "thumbs up" from Clipper nation
And Outlaw is a one-dimensional gunner with low BBIQ…it didn’t take their fans to figure out Trav
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
Canzano is just mad
that he can’t write about the Ducks anymore and is creating another story to rant about.
I don't remember this much whining from OSU fans
when OUR football team was taking sheep for joyrides…. :)
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by EngineerScotty on Mar 17, 2010 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions
what was to whine about? You wanted sheep, you got sheep
"its tough to play with one eye, unless you're a pirate." Delonte West
"una canasta a Pau en la cara" Rudy
by Honka Playboy on Mar 17, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Lot of cloak and dagger BS happening here.
I’m ok with that as long as the organization continues to affirm its desire to produce a winning basketball product in Portland. That’s the bottom line as far as I’m concerned.
"B-Roy is the best shooting guard I have played against"
-Ron Artest
Firing KP on basketball merits would be insane.
I’m not one to deify the guy, but his draft record is almost impeccable:
2006: Best two players in the draft with picks 4 and 7 and a late round promising Euro
2007: Consensus #1 no brainer pick that all 30 GMs would have taken plus some cap wizardry to get Ruy late in the 1st
2008: BPA in Bayless followed by a late round steal in Batum
2009: Eurostash late in first, and 2 ready to play early 2nd rounders.
hard to criticize anything there – he’s done more than almost anyone could expect given what he had to work with.
Any criticism of KP’s work would have to be on the trade and/or free agency front. Without knowing for sure what deals he has NOT executed that he could have, it’s hard to argue with his results. Any of the rumored RLEC deals last February look now like they would have been mistakes. Miller is working out well. The one thing you could criticize was making Hedo the #1 option last summer. Still, on the whole you would have to give him pretty high marks.
So, unless it is other stuff internal to the organization or something league-wide like building up a reputation which will hurt our ability to execute moves in the future, then it’s fair to say there is no basketball-related reason on Earth in which to fire KP.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
I agree that the Hedo deal was pretty much the only thing worth criticisim basketball wise
But we really have no way of knowing how he would have fit in on the blazers. Perhaps his 15, 5, and 5 would have been just what the blazers offense needed. It would have taken a lot of the ballhandling/creating out of Blakes hands, as well as taken pressure off of Roy. Obviously, relegating Batum to a bench role given his performance this season would have been a mistake, and the overall defense would have suffered. But it might not have been as terrible of a signing as it appears, its tough to say exactly how it would have panned out.
With that said, there is a very good chance it would have been a mistake, especially considering the length of the deal. I guess I am just saying that I can see what KP was thinking when he went after him, its not like it was an absolutely awful decision. It had some potential to work out. I am glad we didn’t have to find out one way or the other though. Getting Andre was a much safer move now and 3 years down the road…
RUDY > MJ
Thank you KP
And Paul Allen and the Vulcans have to know that too
Despite what Canzano would have us believe, the Vulcans are obviously smart guys—as Canzano repeatedly notes. Even if they’re not basketball guys, they’re clearly smart enough to read, and KP is pretty universally regarded as a good GM in the press. Even his decision to take Oden, which would be the easiest thing for a non-basketball mind to criticize, is defended by most credible sources as the move nearly 100% of GMs would have made.
Even if the Vulcans are just looking to create imaginary problems to get credit for solving, Paul Allen wouldn’t be dumb enough to buy the argument that KP needs to go for basketball reasons. He might not have a blank check anymore, and they may not have agreed to extend his contract prematurely, but that’s a far cry from saying he’s next to go.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
Also...
If they really do want to fire KP that would make Penn’s firing, even from a purely business standpoint (something the Vulcans supposedly get), amazingly stupid. If anything, that would make Penn much less disposable.
If anything, the next head to roll will probably by McMillan’s. And if Paul Allen’s goal is to win soon—the alleged premise of all this—then getting rid of all of the basketball minds in your front office would be amazingly counter-productive.
Lets face it. Canzano loves to stir the pot. The Vulcans are his favorite villain. And there’s no better story than this—KP’s job supposedly being on the line is BIG news in PDX. Frankly, we should have seen this article coming a mile away. I’m surprised it took Canzano a whole day to spin things this way. He couldn’t pass on creating this angle no matter the facts.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
You could say
they made a pragmatic business decision to off load Penn and save some money in order to afford to offer KP more. What do they need a stats guy for right now anyway? This team has been whittled down to what is starting to become a group of core players who look very much like the organization is setting itself up to ride for a few years. They are not going to do anything in the draft. They really have no need for his services. He’s going to get a great job. The timing was kind of weird but so what.
disagree with this
What do they need a stats guy for right now anyway?
Penn’s expertise was in the intricacies of the salary cap, something the Blazers will need to know more and more about as they exceed it.
Additionally, with the new CBA about to totally change the playing field, having a smart capologist that KP trusts like Penn will be crucial.
the Vulcans probably think
“we can contract a guy to do that salary cap stuff for a fraction of what we were paying Penn”
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
I don't buy it.
More likely are the stories that Tom Penn was rubbing people the wrong way. I wouldn’t be surprised if the move to can him had a clandestine thumbs-up from KP. This spin is just KP’s agent using the development to try to drive a contract for his guy.
"I take the little gummy bear Flintstones vitamins…I try not to eat the lady. I try not to eat the man. Just give me the car. I try to find the car. Yea, worst case scenario, I eat the lady." - Ron Artest, 2009
That could be.
My first reaction to the firing was that Penn was angling for KP’s job and was playing both sides off the middle so-to-speak. If that was the case, I think that KP’s agent would say the something regardless, but not so sure it would have been so pointed.
I think there is something to the story that is unnerving and points to subterfuge from the Vulcans, but hopefully that fear is baseless.
I would be really pissed if Penn’s firing was just a prelude to larger moves. Just to be safe I fired off the obligatory angry fan rant email to Vulcan, Inc. They’ll delete it as soon as they read the first few lines I’m sure, but at least they’ll get the picture of an active fan base not in the mood for any cutsie crap from Seattle.
"She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...I got better."
IF what Canzano says is true, how could KP feel any security working for
people that he cannot trust? If I was Kevin, I’d seriously start thinking about resigning ASAP, live off of my savings, and let my agent get the word out to the rest of the league that I’m open to taking a job with an ownership that I feel that I can trust. Why give Vulcan the chance to seal his fate? That’s IF this is all true.
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
Its Canzano
Take it with a massive grain of salt.
"Good evening Blazer fans, wherever you may be!"-Bill Schonely
tabloid
journalism is Canzano’s new job….funny most of us come here instead of Oregonlive to discuss it…fail
Portland Trail Blazers - where injuries and people come together"
Have to agree
And I’m not even a Canzano hater. I don’t always agree, but I think he tells a good story sometimes. Not this time. Ridiculous logical leap. KP is safe as can be, and we should probably feel a little silly (or maybe just bored) for even giving Canzano’s story this much credit.
Canzano got some reasonable info from his sources, and the basic facts of his story are reasonable and backed up with decent journalistic works.
but in typical tabloid style, carried he turned from facts to rampant speculation, and went into unsupportable territory with the suppositions that KP is on thin ice. It’s a bridge too far.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Maybe MY Source WAS accurate
Found this line buried in the article:
“And they’re [vulcans] blaming the failure to secure a first-choice free agent last summer on the duo [KP and TP], too.”
So, Paul Allen is still upset that he didn’t get Turkey; Tom’s comments about “the numbers don’t lie” and ‘the boos sounding like drowning turkeys’ did not sit well with the richman’s “I’m never wrong” ego.
My OTHER Source says that Paul Allen is still mad that they didn’t stop him from drafting Oden and Tom Penn kept insisting that it was the right thing to do. He didn’t understand the rules of the uber-rich; always agree with your good ideas that are now their good ideas, and always blame yourself, and not the boss, for the bad decisions the boss makes. Tom was probably one of those idiots (!) who thinks the truth has value and people should speak honestly for best communication.
My first thought was that the “ladder climber” was a ‘brown-nose’ reference; I’m thinking now it was the other way around – Tom Penn thought he was a member of the inner circle and “An Executive” and forgot that kissing rear (keeping you mouth shut) was still part of his job description.
Remember: be very careful how you cross the uber-rich ego – one snide remark and pffftttt.
Pissed that he didn’t get Turkey? GIVE THE MAN PROMOTION AND A RAISE!!!
Canzano's source is Penn's and Pritchard's agent.
Penn’s and Pritchard’s agent’s job is to get Penn a new job and get Pritchard a contract extension. Up until Canzano’s story think of all the rumor’s about Penn’s character that were being put out there — ladder climber, rubs PA and front office the wrong way, etc.
The agent used Canzano to:
1) get everyone to stop speculating about what Penn might have done by getting everyone riled up about Vulcan and making it the bad guy. This helps Penn’s cause with any potential employers that might be considering him.
2) get everyone riled up about KP being next. This creates a potential backlash among Blazer fans and a potential PR issue for the Blazers. Assuming the ‘KP being next’ thing is actually made up and PA still loves KP, it could move the Blazers toward that extension of KP’s contract to make everything better in Blazerland. (Unless it backfires and causes PA to get pissed off, then all bets are off.)
I say good day’s work for the agent.
By the way...
Canzano also wins by letting himself be used, as it gives him something to talk about for 3 hours on his show + the page views at OregonLive.
Then perhaps Vulcan should go public with their own account of the situation.
Treat people well because Karma can hit you at any second.
Do they ever go public with anything?
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
I was being slightly sarcastic
ie, all the negative rumors floating about.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
A bothersome note...
Canzano’s only real evidence is the supposed league source and Penn/KP’s agent.
The quote form the agent is meaningless if it’s not tied to the Vulcan’s. But clearly, the agent can’t have known who was behind Penn’s firing. Penn claims to have been shocked, and Canzano says he buys that. If he was shocked, he didn’t know this was coming. I doubt whoever was behind the firing told Penn they were responsible, so if he had no advanced, inside knowledge, then odds are that he doesn’t know who pulled the trigger. So he didn’t tell the agent. And if KP knows what happened and leaked this info, then that would be a REALLY big story, but Canzano isn’t going there, so I doubt that’s the case.
Which means the whole Vulcan angle rests solely on the unidentified league source and Canzano’s imagination. Sorry, but that’s pretty weak. The more I think about this, the less I’m buying 95% of it.
Penn/KP’s agent is just doing his job to defend his clients, as mxpx has been saying. And Canzano is making up the Vulcan angle to make a story out of nothing. Simple as that.
"...it was like he brought his own personal cross-wind to the arena." - Dave
"Canzano...making...a story out of nothing."
This feels like the “Roy not on the court for the anthem, not patriotic, not a good team mate or leader, and is a diva” story created from nothing that simply serves as a distraction from anything real and is net destructive.
Canzano trying for good ratings....
Do agents always tell the truth, just to be good people??
Imo, Mr Allen would not let KP go. How long until this turns into the Vulcans master plan to move the team to Seattle ?
Don’t we have things like the playoffs to talk about?
Til the wheels fall off.... Marcus Camby
Go Blazers !!
Can someone explain to me exactly who are the vulcans? and what exactly is their role or implied role with the blazers?
do other organizations have equivalents of the vulcans. what is this? is it a gm? a consulting agency. it sounds. so. evil and mysterious!
I believe the Vulcans,
are the Blazers upper management in Seattle. Not sure exactly what they do, but if you read the Oregonian, they are evil, and their master plan is to move the team back to Seattle.
My question, wasn’t Penn hired to help KP in the gm position with the legal aspect and contracts ? And before Larry Miller ?
In this economy the biggest savings a company gets is cutting middle management.
Maybe KP and Miller learned from Penn, and this is a budget issue. Maybe Mr Allen is getting tired of everyone being so generous with his $.
Til the wheels fall off.... Marcus Camby
Go Blazers !!
Mr Allen is getting tired of everyone being so generous with his $.
The Vulcans were brought in to make the fanchise solvent after years of overspending. (There used to be an acronym at Blazer’s HQ called “SPAM” that was short for “spending Paul Allen’s money”) Who can forget the “purge” at One center court when a lot of nice people lost their jobs? That was the Vulcans. They are glorified bean counters, and a necessary evil to prevent PA from falling back into his “fix every problem by spending more money” ways. Brian Wheeler can spin the Blazer’s organization as being top-notch, and I’m sure it’s true—from the player’s perspective. But Paul’s free-spending days are over, and any Blazer employee who thinks that they “know more” than the Vulcans had better keep their head on a swivel
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
The Vulcans,
are the sworn archenemies of the Klingons….which apparently Tom Penn was a member of.
by oregon_fan on Mar 17, 2010 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Vulcan, Inc. is a "holding company."
In that sense, it’s somewhat similar to Berkshire Hathaway, the lumbering giant of the investment world run by Warren Buffet.
Only Vulcan, Inc. is not carefully making strategic “value” type investments in order to increase shareholder value in a rational and gradual manner, the type of which led it to have $45 BILLION in cash and no good place to spend it back in the first half of the 00s.
No, Vulcan is basically the umbrella entity that controls all his post-Microsoft ventures. Most of them are money-losing vanity projects (like… entertainment museums and pro-sports franchises) and a couple of money making ventures (real estate) that are meant to pay for all the money losing stuff.
by conspirator5 on Mar 17, 2010 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions
I feel dumb
the timing had everything to do with season ticket renewels.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
by ratbastird on Mar 17, 2010 6:57 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Ben........ You're linkin' to Canzano and you forgot to give your readers this...
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
by timbo on Mar 17, 2010 7:01 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Why would Penn get offed in season, before playoffs, at once?
A couple possible scenarios:
1. Duplicitous negotiations with another team for a GM slot.
2. Severe fight with Larry Miller over something really big, like, let’s say, the Oden contract.
The timing of this makes me very confused.
One thing this is NOT is a warning shot over KP’s bow. But that’s the crackpot theory that will sell the most newspaper/generate the most web hits/get the most radio listeners. So guess who is touting that one?!?!?!?!?
Anybody????
Anybody????
Canzano is full of crap up to his eyeballs and it is a disservice to the more gullible citizens among us to print ANYTHING he writes or link to ANYTHING he writes without the appropriate disclaimers up top, in HUGE letters, preferably making use of the colors red, yellow, and pink in the layout…
"A bizarre and extremely rare hybrid Blazer/Laker fan, Timbo has always struggled to contain the Beast Within, like Dr. Jekyll, Bruce Banner, or Ted Kennedy." — Miled Animal
timing is easy
it’s the day after season ticket renewals
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Could someone (you or otherwise) explain in detail what effect this decision would have made on renewals
If it had happened last week?
Re renewals
Timmay,
If it had happened last week,w/the Canzano story on KP in trouble and it was all the Vulcan’s fault,it would be reasonable to assume that faced w/a ticket increase on top of the news that some fans would not renew,esp some who wanted to make a statement of support for KP.
Which brings up another angle.
Suppose ticket renewals are not what they wanted,esp among Corp suites and there was some mumbling that they weren’t treated the way they expected(instead of having to say they couldn’t afford them). Who’s in charge of game operations? The guy who we now have reason to believe was on thin ice beforehand and just got fired.
If the gossip about KP possibly being fired had started a week ago...
it would have given me pause with regard to renewing because I see KP as the main person that lead the Blazers out of the Jail Blazer era. His potential firing would have caused me to be concerned about the Blazers foregoing everything that made me care about being a fan again. I might not have renewed.
I was up in the air on renewing tickets
If my rep had called me, i’d probably have ended up renewing.
If this had broken before and my rep had called me, i’d have told him flat out no.
As it was, I wasn’t called by my sales rep and I didn’t buy tickets anyway. It’s been fun but I’m just not in town enough and the tickets didn’t sell enough and the set-up for sales costs me money while the blazers get to double dip like crazy.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
And Kenny Vance is happy to ride on Canzano's coattails too.
Apparently Kenny is also good at playing the “unnamed sources” routine, because during their regular midday check-in with JQuick, Kenny suddenly dropped some kind of story about how some “league executive” told him that KP was in hot water over, hell I dunno what it was. Oden?
Either way, Jason Quick was super, SUPER professional about it. He managed to completely undermine the credibility of what Kenny was saying without actually calling him a liar:
“Wow. That’s big! I have absolutely no reason to corroborate that suggestion, and lots of reasons to think it’s hogwash, but wow Kenny! Big stuff!”
I paraphrase of course, but thats pretty much how it went.
by conspirator5 on Mar 17, 2010 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Missed a factoid...
Kenny’s story apparently dates back to the last Summer League, implying somehow that KP has been on thin ice for the entire season.
by conspirator5 on Mar 17, 2010 7:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe he has been all season
KP’s certainly been less public this season……and the general feeling around the team, from the management on down to players and even fans, hasn’t felt the same since the contract negotiations with Roy and Aldridge began……way more negativity than last year. Even the Rose Garden hasn’t felt the same, from a distance, or in arena experience. Sure there have been moments, but last year was pretty special.
Witty Unpredictable Talent and Natural Game
I agree -- the Rose Garden hasn't felt the same this year.
I attributed it to different things, like lower expectations last year vs. higher expectations this year, dashed by injuries, roster changes and associated adjustments, etc. But maybe, I don’t know.
Let's see... summer, fall, winter...
Spring! I’ll talk about Summer league gossip next Spring!
Why wouldn't penn want to be the wolves gm?
Seriously what was he thinking?
by doomsdaymachine on Mar 17, 2010 7:04 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
it's a lot closer to Memphis
and St. Jude’s hospital
When reached 40 years of following Portland basketball you have, be as passionate of the Trail Blazers you will not!
If Allen wanted heads to roll, I can't imagine KP is next
Usually when a team doesn’t mean the owner’s expectations the ordering of firings goes: assistant coach/GM, head coach, then either GM or trading franchise player for 60 cents on the dollar. With what Nate has had this year they’ve done well on the court, so firing one of his assistants would make no sense. Between Durant turning into an elite player while Oden can’t even play and not using RLEC in a trade last season there is some things you can criticize the front office for. I don’t know if those are enough, so it sounds like there was must have been a fight between Penn and Allen or they found out Penn was the one who leaked Oden’s pictures.
"Maybe we can't stroll to the music of the lute. We must march to the sound of drums." -Captain Kirk
I don't even think the RLEC was a bad thing that we kept it.
Obviously, it was a valuable, desired asset. Just because we didn’t trade it away doesn’t mean it wasn’t useful. Could be we just didn’t have an opportunity for a good deal, and they didn’t want to take back a multi-year contract considering their need to lock up Roy, LMA, Oden, and all the rookie contracts coming up.
i call bogus on this
Durant/Oden is complete hindsight. 30 of 30 GMs would have picked Oden. Faulting KP for doing that is ridiculous, and PA knows it.
Not trading RLEC appears in hindsight to have been the correct move. Paying 15 million a year for Jefferson or Carter, which means no Miller (no capspace to spend), no Camby (can’t trade Blake if we don’t have Miller), and Batum riding pine, would have made us a worse team with worse flexibility.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Canzano follows my number one rule in life.
Always trust a sports agent.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
agreed
they have no agenda at all….
I hope I can get a bunch of championships, like 15. " - Greg Oden
He just looks the agent in the eyes
and says “you had me at hello”.
I am Spartacus and I approved this message
by EngineerScotty on Mar 17, 2010 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions
So according to Canzano, its good to have Nike hacks
running UO basketball, but Vulcan hacks at the Blazers not so much?
Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. ~Aaron Levenstein
Nike hacks SPEND money.
Vulcan hacks take it away.
I am Spartacus and I approved this message
by EngineerScotty on Mar 17, 2010 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
It's good to have Nike hacks running UO basketball
up until the very day you come up to deadline with nothing and can manufacture a reason why it’s bad to have Nike hacks running UO basketball.
This does not pass the smell test
I mean…Canzano says that, basically, the reason KP’s vulnerable is because we didnt get Hedo and the Durant is putting up great numbers, making people think we should have took him. It’s like he’s assuming these guys keep track of all of the sports new that criticizes KP’s moves (cough*includinghis*cough) and completely ignore all evidence that this is a fluke year, with a bad set of circumstances combining all at once. And that the Vulcans are “smart business people who dont know basketball?” Maybe I’ve misheard everything I’ve ever listened to about business and investing…but I THINK it’s probably pretty business smart to know at least a little bit about what you’re working on. These are smart guys, and I’m sure they got the memo detailing that literally everyone on the roster built their house over an indian burial ground and now the angry spirits are taking their revenge on the collective ligaments, bones and tendons of the entire Blazers organization. And, conveniently, the one guy who hasnt been injured and has been a stud for us in recent months is the guy we got INSTEAD of Hedo, who is currently languishing in Toronto. I think the initial reports, as per AWoj, about Penn rubbing KP the wrong way and creating an awkward environment are more legit. Penn probably pissed off his mentor, and got fired because of it. Canzano is just trying to sell copy. As always.
I bet the only thing Vulcan see's this season is a ton of consecutive sell-outs at the Rose Garden
Beyond that I doubt they care about any players numbers, let alone the individual them self. They are business people and know they have no expertise on Oden vs Durant or are bummed because a certain player didn’t come here. Would they have sold more tickets if we had Hedo instead of Miller? No, since its sold out it is impossible (in their eyes) to do better then we are.
Execs have been fired for less in less time.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Conjecture
I think it’s fine to discuss implications and impact of a possible KP departure, and if this article sparks that conversation, fine. However, this article should do little to convince anyone that it is a legitimate possibility.
We got an angry agent and an unidentified league source.
Desperately lacking is a quote from Vulcan. And until he has that, Canzano’s speculation is only worth the discussions it can start, certainly not worth worrying about.
It’s like that Howard/Pujols garbage ESPN ran a few days ago.
volatilelyle.wordpress.com
I realize it's an entertainment industry
but sports journalism is pretty horrible these days
volatilelyle.wordpress.com
by almost awesome on Mar 17, 2010 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions
canzano is editorial
not news… although I agree but it’s all journalism, not just sports.
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
Mo better info
from 95.5 after Canzano: Turf war on between Larry Miller and Kevin Pritchard.
Not surprising, as the various players we see on the court suggest conflicting visions of the team’s identity. I have attributed this to the differing basketball of philosophy of Nate Mcmillen and Kevin Pritchard, but it makes sense that it comes from higher up.
A good owner commits to his people and intervenes rarely only when certain conditions prevail.
KP’s “make a new culture/decision by consensus” management style may have backfired on him.
Microsoft management style epitomized the paranoid machinations of a that most childish of generations, the Baby Boomers. I wonder if that culture persists in Vulcan management.
"The only 'Advanced Metric' that matters is what you see with your eyes." -Timbo, Nov., 2009.
John Canzano is a muckraker
with zero integrity. If Pritchard is fired before Canzano, it will be another sign of the utter lack of logic or justice in the universe or the people who inhabit it.
Wendell Maxey with a slightly different perspective
http://beyondthebeat.net/20100318449/2010-articles/march/portland-moves-forwardagain.html
It was then that a trusted person who works for the organization and has close ties to the front office revealed that Penn was creating on aura of distrust within the front office by instructing a generally open Kevin Pritchard to tighten his circle of trust.
This "person" felt then that this wasn’t good for the organization. Pritchard was growing hard to reach, "moody" and just "not himself". Not good at all.
This certainly seems a much more plausible explanation than either Canzano’s “KP is on the hot seat” speculation or Woj’s “Penn was going to replace KP, so KP cut him off at the knees” angle. Sounds like Maxey’s source could be pretty reliable, and it certainly passes the smell test better than anything we’ve heard so far.
"I want to be traded to a contender" is almost always code-speak for "I'm a loser."
-Dave, 2/5/2010: http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/2/5/1297509/no-amore-for-amare
Canzano doin' his thing
gullible fans around Portland scream “the sky is falling!”
I don’t think KP deserves to lose his job, but maybe the good out of this will be that he’ll lose his un-earned aura of invincibility.
by Theghostofsomeonefamous on Mar 18, 2010 6:43 AM PDT reply actions
? is all i have to say to that
"Fernandez, to my eyes, is the Blazer who walks that walk most comfortably. A lot of Portland's fans (egged on, dare I say, by their local broadcasters) lament things like how Ron Artest or Yao Ming get to hit Brandon Roy's arms.
But I suspect Fernandez sees all that and thinks: We get to hit arms! Cool!"
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-39-135/On-Playoff-Experience.html
"I told Pau the Lakers never win here in Portland; I think it's great." -- Rudy Fernandez
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